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Selects: How Motion Sickness Works · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's your pale Josh. For this week's select,
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Speaker 1: I've chosen our twenty sixteen episode on motion sickness, one
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Speaker 1: of the worst, non injurious, non life threatening things that
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Speaker 1: can happen to you. But don't worry. You won't get
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Speaker 1: motion sick just from listening and maybe knowing a little
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Speaker 1: more about it might help you avoid it. We can
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Speaker 1: only hope enjoy.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
0:33
Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua Clark. There's
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Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there. I'm speaking
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Speaker 1: in a monotone kind of.
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Speaker 2: Hey, dude, Hey, how's it going.
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Speaker 1: It's going well. I'm not motion sick, so things are fine.
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Speaker 1: Do you get motion sick sometimes? I mean if the condition.
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Speaker 1: I was really surprised to find that not everybody gets
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Speaker 1: motion sick.
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Speaker 2: What are your conditions?
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Speaker 1: Poor ventilation and like lots of movement backseat of a car? Okay,
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Speaker 1: but anytime I read in a car, yeah, even like
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Speaker 1: glancing at my phone on a map. Really, if I
1:22
Speaker 1: have to read anything, yeah, it gets me very quick.
1:26
Speaker 1: So I've just learned like I can't do it. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I cannot do it, so I don't.
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Speaker 2: I get it a little bit too. I used to
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Speaker 2: get it more, I think when I was younger. Supposedly
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Speaker 2: it's normal. Supposedly it is. But I remember a very
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Speaker 2: specific story that my brother still laughs at.
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Speaker 1: And by the.
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Speaker 2: Way, boy, I'm glad. I said that I owe my brother,
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Speaker 2: my big brother, a big apology because I saw him
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Speaker 2: over the weekend and he said, oh, by the way,
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Speaker 2: I was just did an old episode and he said,
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Speaker 2: you'd never been a groom a best man. I was
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Speaker 2: the best man at my brother's wedding.
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Speaker 1: Oh out, man. I felt like a jerk, man, Scott,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know.
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Speaker 2: And what happened was when I said I hadn't, I
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Speaker 2: just like quickly scanned through my friends that have gotten married,
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Speaker 2: and I didn't think about my brother and I was
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Speaker 2: his best man. Boy, I know, man, what a jerk.
2:18
Speaker 1: Well it's it's rectified.
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Speaker 2: Well I told him. I was like, you're going to
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Speaker 2: get a public apology, So there it is.
2:23
Speaker 1: That's pretty public.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's public as it gets.
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Speaker 1: You could have also started a scores based website if
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Speaker 1: you wanted. It's really easy.
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Speaker 2: I might do that. So anyway, there's this old story
2:34
Speaker 2: when we went to Disney Geez, which is the one
2:38
Speaker 2: where Body Wars is at. I should have asked Holly.
2:43
Speaker 2: From stuff you missed in history class, you.
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Speaker 1: Would know she probably senses that someone's talking about Disney
2:47
Speaker 1: right now.
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Speaker 2: Body Wars either was or still is. I don't know
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Speaker 2: if it's still there. One of those rides that you
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Speaker 2: sit in a you know, it was one of those
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Speaker 2: first sort of virtual things where they show you a
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Speaker 2: movie and they moved.
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Speaker 1: The car, like the Amazing Voyage or something, wasn't it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you went inside a human body and we're traveling around.
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Speaker 2: I want to say Disney World, but I can't remember.
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Speaker 2: So I went in that and.
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Speaker 1: I mean waiting. You grew up in Atlanta, I'm guessing
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Speaker 1: you went to disney World.
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Speaker 2: Well, it definitely was at Disneyland, but I don't know
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Speaker 2: if it was Epcot Oh or Universal Studio or Disney World.
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Speaker 2: It was in Orlando.
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Speaker 1: So from what I understand, we have a buddy who
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Speaker 1: works for Disney, and he set me straight on this before,
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Speaker 1: and I think I've got it. So Disney World is
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Speaker 1: all of those. The Magic Kingdom is what you're specifying.
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Speaker 2: So Disney world includes Epcott and Universal Studios.
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Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, I really hope I'm not mistake.
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Speaker 2: And the Magic Kingdom is specifically went with the Castle, right.
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Speaker 1: If I did get that wrong, Brandon, I apologize.
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Speaker 2: It's one with the castle and all the weird adults
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Speaker 2: that think they're children.
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Speaker 1: Like Holly from stuff you missed in history class.
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Speaker 2: Uh so body wars anyway, you're traveling through the body,
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Speaker 2: and I remember at one point I was like, man,
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Speaker 2: this is it's getting hot in here, and Scott was like,
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Speaker 2: this is great. I was like, I'm not feeling so
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Speaker 2: good man. It's like do they have the heat going?
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Speaker 2: It's like, what are you talking about? It feels great?
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Speaker 2: And I got I didn't vomit, but I got really
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Speaker 2: sick and made it through the ride and left. And
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Speaker 2: he still teases me to this day. He was like,
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Speaker 2: it was temperature air controlled, yeah, and you thought it
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Speaker 2: was like ninety degrees and they were like pumping in heat.
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Speaker 1: It's funny, like it got to you like that, like
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Speaker 1: your own body cold sweats the whole wh Yeah, that's bad,
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Speaker 1: but generally you you actually did puke.
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Speaker 2: No, no, no, I did not poke. You didn't, but generally,
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Speaker 2: I don't like it takes a certain thing, like a
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Speaker 2: really hardcore roller coaster, right, going in fast fast circles. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: but I don't get sick on plains or the one
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Speaker 2: cruise I went on, I didn't get sick.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've gotten I've gotten sick before, like
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Speaker 1: on vacation. But and on planes it's usually fairly fleeting.
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Speaker 1: It's when I introduced reading that it's like, right, you're
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Speaker 1: in big trouble for a long time.
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Speaker 2: You can read on a plane though I can't.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, now I think about it's reading in
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Speaker 1: a car. I just got to stay away from that.
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Speaker 1: But usually it does come about with like poor ventilation
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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, yeah, which is another trigger, it's
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Speaker 1: a big one, or like a rough odor or something
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Speaker 1: like that.
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Speaker 2: I'm sure all those things don't help.
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Speaker 1: The thing is for for as much as like we
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Speaker 1: kind of commonly understand motion sickness, science really doesn't have
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Speaker 1: a full explanation for it.
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Speaker 2: I'm picturing little Josh because riding backwards is bad and
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Speaker 2: like a rumble seat and a station wagon.
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Speaker 1: In a in a Subaru brat with like your.
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Speaker 2: Dad has like salami socks on or something that stink, what,
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Speaker 2: like the windows are rolled up. I don't know. I'm
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Speaker 2: just trying to think of something gross.
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Speaker 1: Salami socks, like socks made of salami.
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Speaker 2: Sure, Like, whendn't that smelled gross?
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Speaker 1: He's wearing the skin of another person.
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Speaker 2: Well, no, I was thinking sock smelled like old salami,
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Speaker 2: but made of salami is even better? Right, I think
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Speaker 2: I'm just picturing you back there, like reading your Mad
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Speaker 2: magazine feeling bad.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I do remember being a kid and
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Speaker 1: figuring out I can't read in cars. There was a
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Speaker 1: period where I could, which is kind of surprising because
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Speaker 1: when you're younger, you're more susceptible to motion sickness. Yeah,
6:15
Speaker 1: but I could read in the car while I was younger,
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Speaker 1: and then probably around the time of puberty, I was like,
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Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore.
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Speaker 2: So you went opposite. Yeah weird. Yeah, well maybe you
6:25
Speaker 2: developed your hips, right, because that's a tease. We'll just
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Speaker 2: leave that out there, all right. So twenty five to
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Speaker 2: forty percent of people supposedly are susceptible to motion sickness.
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Speaker 2: So weird, and it can happen on planes, it can happen.
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Speaker 2: It's weird. This one University of Maryland side I went
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Speaker 2: to said the following are the most common risk factors
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Speaker 2: riding in a car, boat, airplane, or space shuttle. Really, yeah, nerds,
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Speaker 2: Just like they didn't even put amusement park ride. They
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Speaker 2: just went straight to space shuttle.
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Speaker 1: You know, one that I I hadn't seen before, but
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Speaker 1: apparently as the thing is looking through a microscope.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a little bit of sense though.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the slag can move and your eyes are
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Speaker 1: seeing movement but you're not moving. Uh huh, And yeah,
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Speaker 1: I don't get to you like another nerdy motion sickness,
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Speaker 1: space shuttles and microscopes.
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Speaker 2: So, like you said, age between two and twelve, you're
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Speaker 2: more likely and then you're also more likely to grow
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Speaker 2: out of it after puberty. And one of the reasons
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Speaker 2: that women are more motion sickness than men, or get
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Speaker 2: motion sickness more than men, is because one of the
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Speaker 2: theories is that after puberty they developed more in the hips,
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Speaker 2: men develop more in the chest, and I guess that
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Speaker 2: makes a difference. They didn't really explain why, though, did they.
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Speaker 1: Well, it all has to do with sway theory, which
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Speaker 1: will oh, that's right, right, sway theory. Yeah, but it
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Speaker 1: is true that like women are more susceptible just on average,
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Speaker 1: to motion sickness than men are.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw some studies apparently.
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Speaker 1: Also Asian women Asian period.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because Penn State did a study and they put
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Speaker 2: people in situations that make emotion sick or not.
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Speaker 1: Did you look into those?
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Speaker 2: Oh? Is it like a tilted whirl Dude?
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Speaker 1: Like if you went in for just a clinical study,
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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna make some scratch and maybe they'll give
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Speaker 1: me a cool drug or something. Yeah, and it turns
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Speaker 1: out to be a motion sickness study, you should leave.
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Speaker 2: No. I totally was.
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Speaker 1: So there's this thing called a optkinetic drum I believe
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Speaker 1: is what it's called. Oh I did see that, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: optkinetic joke. It's like it's like a drum, like a
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Speaker 1: big drum that you sit inside of, and it's got
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Speaker 1: vertical black and white painted stripes and it spins around
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Speaker 1: you and the motion, the movement is really emphasized and
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Speaker 1: like it's designed to make anybody motion sick and that's
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Speaker 1: how they induce motion sickness. And I saw another one
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Speaker 1: where they use a chair that just kind of moves
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Speaker 1: you around, whether you like it or not, and it
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Speaker 1: induces motion sickness. Like, what a terrible thing to have happened.
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Speaker 2: You man. There was a ride at six Flags over
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Speaker 2: Georgia growing up that they got rid of because someone
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Speaker 2: got hurt, supposedly where it's this barrel that you all
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Speaker 2: get in. You stand, it's like kind of below ground.
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Speaker 2: You stand against the wall and it spins so fast.
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Speaker 2: Then they dropped the floor beneath you, and the centrifugal
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Speaker 2: force hold you against the wall.
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Speaker 1: It's like a spin cycle and a washing machine. You mean.
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Speaker 1: I were just talking about that the other day.
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Speaker 2: Thing was awful.
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Speaker 1: That was my favorite of all time.
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Speaker 2: Really, uh huh.
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Speaker 1: I just thought it was so cool.
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Speaker 2: Well, the old story was that someone's leg got trapped
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Speaker 2: when the floor came back.
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Speaker 1: Up, But I remember hearing that now that I look.
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Speaker 2: Back, because I'm sure that was an old wives tale.
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Speaker 1: Although I was on Snoops the other day and I
9:38
Speaker 1: was reading an early article and they were talking about,
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Speaker 1: you know, the urban legend about some girl who got
9:43
Speaker 1: scalped because her hair got caught in an amusement park
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Speaker 1: ride or something. It actually happened, really, Yeah, the girl's
9:50
Speaker 1: ponytail got caught in there. And just got pulled right
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Speaker 1: off of her head. I know, but it actually did happen.
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Speaker 1: So it's possible someone's leg got sucked into the tilta world.
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Speaker 2: Well, but then what happens is it happened to every
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Speaker 2: amusement park.
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Speaker 1: Right right. It just happened to my cousin's friend.
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Speaker 2: Right, all right. So the Penn State study they put
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Speaker 2: people in these torture machines and interestingly, they did confirm
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Speaker 2: eighty percent of Asian people got sick, when it was
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Speaker 2: less than fifty percent for Caucation and non Caucasian, which is.
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Speaker 1: Really it's very crazy, but it kind of underscores a
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Speaker 1: growing awareness among motion sickness researchers aka the evil ones,
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Speaker 1: that genetics play a big role in susceptibility to motion sickness.
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because there were another couple of findings that
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Speaker 2: lend to that. Twins. They studied two hundred sets of
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Speaker 2: identical twins, and one hundred percent of the identical twins
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Speaker 2: were both affected. Really yeah, and some of that, you know,
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Speaker 2: they can't prove that it's genetics because it also could
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Speaker 2: be the just where they were raised and how were
11:02
Speaker 2: they raised. What's that called?
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Speaker 1: Uh nurture, environment.
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Speaker 2: Environment environmental And if parents are both susceptible to motion sickness,
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Speaker 2: they found that their children are five times more likely,
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Speaker 2: So it sort of points to genetics. But then other
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Speaker 2: things point away from genetics, like why why would you
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Speaker 2: know two people in the same family and the same
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Speaker 2: conditions not get sick or why did two people period
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Speaker 2: not get.
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Speaker 1: Sick right under the same conditions. Yeah, Like, I guess
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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Salami socks smell, yeah, yeah, same backwards
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Speaker 1: facing seat.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is they haven't figured
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Speaker 2: it out.
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Speaker 1: No, they haven't. But if we do figure out that
11:46
Speaker 1: it's genetic, thanks to the magic of the Crisper cast
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Speaker 1: nine gene editing process, be able to knock that right
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Speaker 1: out for you.
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Speaker 2: What else pregnant?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, pregnant women are more susceptible to it. Women who
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Speaker 1: are menstruating, I think also are, and people who get
12:04
Speaker 1: migraines are more susceptible. And then people who sleep poorly
12:08
Speaker 1: are more susceptible to motion sickness.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it says if you're prone to nausea or vomiting,
12:15
Speaker 2: but I don't know if that's like, that's the sort
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Speaker 2: of a chicken or the egg thing.
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Speaker 1: So it's well, we're going to get into again. We
12:21
Speaker 1: said science doesn't understand exactly what's going on here, but
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Speaker 1: there's some good theories. We're going to talk about them
12:27
Speaker 1: right after this. So chuck, Yeah, let's talk about some
12:56
Speaker 1: theories for motion sickness because it's kind of two Yeah,
13:01
Speaker 1: I saw. I think it was this Atlantic article you sent.
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Speaker 2: Good.
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Speaker 1: It's not so much it's not so much science. It's
13:08
Speaker 1: a debate, yeah, over you know, the likelier explanation. But
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Speaker 1: they actually kind of fit together, I think so. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: But if you ask the people, apparently the author in
13:18
Speaker 2: the Atlantic, it's called the Mysterious Science of Motion Sickness,
13:22
Speaker 2: he sort of pokes fun a little bit. He's like,
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Speaker 2: to me, they sound sort of the same. But don't
13:26
Speaker 2: tell that to those people who believe one or the other,
13:28
Speaker 2: because they're like, no, they're nothing like each other.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, she Julie Beck, Oh is that who was?
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Speaker 2: All right? Nice job, Julie, good article. Pat on the
13:38
Speaker 2: back for you, cold star. So here's the first one.
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Speaker 2: Is in this one, they both make a lot of
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Speaker 2: sense to me. Basically, there's a dissonance between the parts
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Speaker 2: of your body that sense motion. Right, that's the easiest
13:53
Speaker 2: way to say it.
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Speaker 1: It's called the sensory conflict theory.
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Speaker 2: Yeahs you got tryballs.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it sense motion. It's it's weird if you think
14:02
Speaker 1: about your eyes doing that, but that's one of the
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Speaker 1: roles that they play.
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Speaker 2: Yeah you see motion, right. Sure.
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Speaker 1: You also have the vestibular system, which is centered around
14:09
Speaker 1: your inner ear yep, and that definitely senses motion, movement, acceleration, gravity. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and then you have all the sensor the sensors and
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Speaker 1: like your muscles and joints and stuff.
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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I didn't really think about that as being one,
14:24
Speaker 2: but for sure. Yeah, like your body actually feels it.
14:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, well think about it, like if you if you
14:29
Speaker 1: feel yourself kind of moving backward, you're definitely sensing it
14:34
Speaker 1: through your inner ear, but you can also feel it
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Speaker 1: in your feet as well, and they're sending a bulletin
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Speaker 1: to your brain saying, lean forward, dummy, you're gonna fall back.
14:44
Speaker 1: What's your problem, friend? Yeah, that's what it says.
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Speaker 2: So this dissonance occurs when basically, like let's say you're
14:50
Speaker 2: sitting in a movie theater like an imax, and it's
14:54
Speaker 2: a scene where you're you're flying with Superman or something like.
14:58
Speaker 2: You're seeing this with your eyeball, like a first person
15:01
Speaker 2: perspective shot of flight, right, but you're sitting in your seat,
15:05
Speaker 2: so your eyes are saying you're flying, and your butt's
15:08
Speaker 2: going You're sitting here.
15:09
Speaker 1: And your brain's like a witch Yeah, pretty much witchcraft.
15:15
Speaker 2: So it creates this this, it creates motion sickness. That's
15:18
Speaker 2: when the nausea might kick in, dizziness, those cold sweats, salivation.
15:23
Speaker 1: I like how the author of the house Stuff Works
15:25
Speaker 1: article pointed out she specifically mentioned Avatar.
15:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:31
Speaker 1: Who is the dude the guy who's like the friend
15:35
Speaker 1: on the Flight of the Concords Mary, No, the other dude,
15:40
Speaker 1: the guy who worked in the ponds.
15:41
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
15:42
Speaker 1: Oh man, what is his name?
15:44
Speaker 2: It's not Arge Barker.
15:45
Speaker 1: Is Arge Barker? Yes it was. I always want to
15:47
Speaker 1: call him Bosler him, and I know it's definitely not
15:49
Speaker 1: the same dude. Great comedian Ars Barker. You mean, I
15:52
Speaker 1: went to go see him. He did some stand up right,
15:54
Speaker 1: and he was talking about Avatar and he said, when
15:55
Speaker 1: it first came out, people were like, oh, Avatar, have
15:57
Speaker 1: you seen Avatar?
15:58
Speaker 2: Yeah?
15:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, great? And then like everything you heard was have
16:01
Speaker 1: you seen Avatar? You got to see Avatar, he said,
16:03
Speaker 1: like after a couple of weeks, you'd just be walking
16:05
Speaker 1: down the sidewalk and people would pull up alongside you
16:07
Speaker 1: in their car and roll down the window and go Avatar.
16:11
Speaker 1: And this is I think a great example of that.
16:13
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I posted an article on Facebook not
16:16
Speaker 2: too long ago on the stuff you Should Know page
16:18
Speaker 2: about this person wrote an article about Avatar and their
16:22
Speaker 2: argument was that it for such a huge movie, it
16:26
Speaker 2: had like zero cultural impact, like it was big at
16:30
Speaker 2: the time, but does anyone care now, Like it's not
16:33
Speaker 2: like the Star Wars World or oh Star Trek or
16:36
Speaker 2: all these things. And I totally agreed. I saw Avatar
16:38
Speaker 2: once and I was like, I'm done with it. Typical
16:41
Speaker 2: James Cameron schlock.
16:42
Speaker 1: I've seen it zero times now.
16:44
Speaker 2: That sucks. But dude, there are Avatar people though I
16:49
Speaker 2: know that piled on and were like, was goy, have
16:51
Speaker 2: no idea what he's talking about. It's totally relevant.
16:53
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure they're going to be all over our
16:55
Speaker 1: Facebook page after this episode comes back. Hey truck forever.
16:59
Speaker 2: Now, I like some of James Cameron's stuff, but if
17:01
Speaker 2: he wrote the script, then it's I'm not gonna like it.
17:06
Speaker 1: No, I know what you mean.
17:07
Speaker 2: I think he's a hack writer.
17:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:10
Speaker 2: Did I just say that to hundreds of thousands of people.
17:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm sure James Cameron cares what you think.
17:16
Speaker 1: He's at the bottom of the Marianna Trench right now.
17:19
Speaker 1: He's not listening into Stuffy.
17:20
Speaker 2: She's picking out my future burial site.
17:23
Speaker 1: So, Chuck, we were talking about the sensory conflict theory, right, Yes,
17:29
Speaker 1: that's one big explanation and it definitely kind of makes sense,
17:32
Speaker 1: right you Your brain just basically gets overloaded and it's like, oh,
17:36
Speaker 1: I need to sit down. I've got the vapors. Right, Yeah,
17:39
Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of bad impressions in this episode,
17:42
Speaker 1: as it knows to be somebody fainting in the late
17:47
Speaker 1: nineteenth century.
17:48
Speaker 2: Oh no, it's great. So it was your Archbarker.
17:50
Speaker 1: A fop, That's what it was.
17:51
Speaker 2: It was a fop, the dandy fop.
17:54
Speaker 1: There's another competing idea, and that is we kind of
17:59
Speaker 1: talked about. It's called sway theory.
18:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a dude, Thomas Staffragen or Stuffragen. I'm
18:10
Speaker 2: going with the gin with jin Je Stuffragen, University of
18:16
Speaker 2: University of Minnesota, Prorofessor of Kinesiology and listen to this.
18:21
Speaker 2: He's the director of its Affordance Perception Action Laboratory NERD.
18:27
Speaker 1: He gets motion sickness looking through microscopes, so.
18:33
Speaker 2: He proposes the sway theory, which basically has nothing to
18:37
Speaker 2: do with the vestibular system. He said.
18:39
Speaker 1: He says that I don't I don't necessarily agree with that, but.
18:42
Speaker 2: Okay, agree that he thinks that.
18:44
Speaker 1: No, I know that he thinks that. I don't agree
18:46
Speaker 1: with that his take on that. Agree. I think it's
18:49
Speaker 1: still tied together.
18:50
Speaker 2: But his theory is in this first party is in theory.
18:52
Speaker 2: It's true, is that everyone sways, Like unless you're one
18:55
Speaker 2: of those people that stand at like motionless in the
18:59
Speaker 2: middle of New Orleans for money.
19:03
Speaker 1: Yeah silver or something like that.
19:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're good, they're good at it. But if you're
19:07
Speaker 2: just a regular dope like you and I, when we
19:10
Speaker 2: stand there, we're going to be moving in a little bit. Yeah,
19:12
Speaker 2: you me swaying a little bit.
19:14
Speaker 1: It's weird. Like if you stop and like really pay
19:17
Speaker 1: attention to it, yeah you notice it, but you'll never
19:20
Speaker 1: notice it unless you are focused on it.
19:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're always moving a little bit.
19:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, swaying. If you're standing up, you're swaying for the
19:27
Speaker 1: most part.
19:28
Speaker 2: Yes. And the point he makes is if everyone truly
19:30
Speaker 2: relaxed every muscle in their body, they'd fall over.
19:33
Speaker 1: Right. So the whole point, the whole thing is swaying
19:35
Speaker 1: is it's the byproduct of us standing upright, which is
19:39
Speaker 1: not something we've been doing for all of the time
19:43
Speaker 1: we've been on earth, because we evolve from things that
19:46
Speaker 1: walked on four legs. Standing up's kind of new.
19:50
Speaker 2: Well sure, and babies don't stand up right. They have
19:52
Speaker 2: to learn as well.
19:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so Stuffridgen's whole idea is that motion sickness
19:59
Speaker 1: comes about when you have when you're exposed to movement
20:05
Speaker 1: that contradicts the natural swaying that you've learned to do
20:11
Speaker 1: to stand upright right, and it undermines it and your
20:15
Speaker 1: brain goes which.
20:16
Speaker 2: Makes sense in a way because let's say you're on
20:18
Speaker 2: a boat and the boat's tilting to the left, and
20:22
Speaker 2: so what your feet do or you know, they account
20:25
Speaker 2: for that, and maybe you lean in on the inside
20:28
Speaker 2: of your foot and your toes flex right. So because
20:30
Speaker 2: you want to make yourself more upright again, and then
20:33
Speaker 2: the boat turns again in a direction you're not expecting.
20:36
Speaker 2: You're correcting for that first move, the second move happens,
20:40
Speaker 2: and your body doesn't know what to do.
20:42
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. The the sensory conflict one makes a
20:47
Speaker 1: little more sense to me than this one, because that
20:50
Speaker 1: sounds to me like if that, if that were the case,
20:53
Speaker 1: if that's what's going on, and it clearly is, like
20:55
Speaker 1: when it's when you get your sea legs or whatever. Yeah,
20:59
Speaker 1: you you, you were moving along, You're trying to stay
21:03
Speaker 1: standing under these weird conditions. Why would that translate into
21:07
Speaker 1: something like dizzyness or nausea or vomiting or cold sweats.
21:11
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense to me. Sensory conflict, I can
21:14
Speaker 1: see translating into it. But even beyond that, a lot
21:17
Speaker 1: of people are like, no, that doesn't Still, it doesn't
21:19
Speaker 1: make sense why you would vomit. And this one guy
21:21
Speaker 1: named Michael Treesman in nineteen seventy seven came up with
21:24
Speaker 1: a pretty awesome explanation for why we should get nauseated
21:28
Speaker 1: when we get motion sick.
21:30
Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, should we take a break and talk
21:32
Speaker 2: about that?
21:32
Speaker 1: Oh?
21:32
Speaker 2: Sure, all right? Josh Michael treesmaneteen seven, twenty seven in
22:00
Speaker 2: the journal Science. What did he say?
22:03
Speaker 1: Oh, he said that we get nauseated from motion sickness
22:07
Speaker 1: because over there are some toxins out there that can
22:11
Speaker 1: mess with our vestibular system. Right, Yes, So the body
22:16
Speaker 1: is tricked into thinking that it's possibly been exposed to
22:20
Speaker 1: some sort of toxin because the vestibular the vestibular system
22:24
Speaker 1: is out of whack from motion sickness, So it gets
22:26
Speaker 1: nauseated and ultimately might vomit as a reflex to get
22:30
Speaker 1: rid of whatever toxin it thinks has been ingested. It's
22:34
Speaker 1: basically a case of mistaken identity. I think it explains
22:38
Speaker 1: it perfectly. Yeah, it makes sense to me.
22:40
Speaker 2: I could see a little bit. Yeah, I think what
22:44
Speaker 2: what Stuffragen is saying is that you're used to regaining
22:48
Speaker 2: your balance. You spend your entire life learning this system,
22:51
Speaker 2: and that if it's thrown off, what he doesn't do
22:55
Speaker 2: is connect it. I believe. I believe you're right, he
22:58
Speaker 2: doesn't connect it in the end, like something that happens
23:01
Speaker 2: in your brain.
23:01
Speaker 1: Right, why the physiological reaction.
23:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed, Yeah, he.
23:07
Speaker 1: Does have some pretty good evidence backing his idea. Of
23:10
Speaker 1: sway theory up though, So again, women are more susceptible
23:15
Speaker 1: to motion sickness than men, right, Yes, that's what they say. Well,
23:20
Speaker 1: he says, aha, Well, sway theory explains this. Kids are
23:25
Speaker 1: equally susceptible to both genders are equally susceptible to motion
23:29
Speaker 1: sickness before puberty. Then after puberty, the bodies change, and
23:33
Speaker 1: where women and men hold most of their weight is different. Right,
23:38
Speaker 1: Women hold it mostly around their hips, Men hold it
23:41
Speaker 1: more around their chest, and that means that the center
23:44
Speaker 1: of gravity is different, which means the amount that we
23:46
Speaker 1: sway is different.
23:48
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think who does he say sways? Women
23:53
Speaker 2: sway farther but slower but slower.
23:56
Speaker 1: Men sway faster but within a tighter area.
24:00
Speaker 2: And these are micro sways.
24:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that like most people move
24:05
Speaker 1: no more than like an inch to any given side. Yeah,
24:08
Speaker 1: and even then you're like Barney on the Simpsons when
24:11
Speaker 1: he walked out for that like bachelor auction.
24:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then there's also land sickness, which is interesting.
24:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:20
Speaker 2: I didn't look too much into it, but I have
24:22
Speaker 2: heard of it, which is basically the concept that if
24:25
Speaker 2: you're a sailor, right then you've gotten or you know,
24:29
Speaker 2: just somebody who's been on boats enough. You don't have
24:32
Speaker 2: to be a professional. You get your sea legs so
24:36
Speaker 2: well that you get land sickness.
24:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:39
Speaker 2: When you get back, yeah, and you're on solid ground,
24:41
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know.
24:42
Speaker 1: What to do, right, because your brain's so used to
24:45
Speaker 1: things moving that it perceives that it's moving even though
24:48
Speaker 1: it's not.
24:49
Speaker 2: Do you want to say the French name for it?
24:51
Speaker 1: Milde barkmont close? Let me look, I wasn't even looking
24:57
Speaker 1: that was you forgot the middle part? Well, then you
24:59
Speaker 1: say it.
25:00
Speaker 2: There's a qui in the middle. So maybe mal de barcumen.
25:03
Speaker 1: I said mal Debarkamon, mel debarquemon bark moon have barbecue, mallt.
25:11
Speaker 2: I love that when we do this stuff, there's it's
25:13
Speaker 2: probably literally fifty percent people laughing and fifty percent people
25:17
Speaker 2: want to kill us.
25:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah a lot of people want to
25:22
Speaker 1: kill us. I can live with that as long as
25:24
Speaker 1: they never do.
25:25
Speaker 2: All right, So should we go over some some things
25:30
Speaker 2: that you can do to prevent it?
25:32
Speaker 1: Because I mean that that whole segment on what explains
25:35
Speaker 1: motion sickness is kind of petered out, But that's the
25:37
Speaker 1: state of science right now.
25:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, although they I will say, they have looked at
25:42
Speaker 2: the twenty three and me for the genetic side, and
25:48
Speaker 2: have found some support for both claims.
25:51
Speaker 1: I think that they're together. I do too, Like I think,
25:53
Speaker 1: if yes, your your swaying system is set up in
25:57
Speaker 1: a certain way, and why can't that be a component that,
26:00
Speaker 1: along with the vestibular system and your sight and all
26:03
Speaker 1: that is affected and creates motion sickness. I just don't
26:08
Speaker 1: understand why it has to be one or the other.
26:10
Speaker 1: That was the impression that I had he was trying
26:13
Speaker 1: to really come get across, is that it's no, it's
26:15
Speaker 1: its own thing. Yeah, yeah, I think that's weird. So
26:19
Speaker 1: what do you what do you go to if you
26:20
Speaker 1: get motions sick?
26:21
Speaker 2: Well, they say to keep your eyes on the horizon,
26:24
Speaker 2: whether you're in a car or a boat or whatever.
26:27
Speaker 1: That that'll help cuts down on motion, right or the
26:31
Speaker 1: sensation of motion. I'm not sure I think so, because
26:35
Speaker 1: think about it, when you look at stuff that's close
26:36
Speaker 1: to the car, it's blurring by. It's the horizon sting. Yeah,
26:42
Speaker 1: constant look.
26:43
Speaker 2: At you keep your head still so you can lay
26:46
Speaker 2: down if you're able to somewhere, or at least put
26:50
Speaker 2: your head back against the seat. Yeah, just sort of
26:52
Speaker 2: keep it as still as possible. Don't smoke.
26:56
Speaker 1: Sure, they just good advice all around.
26:58
Speaker 2: Exactly if you're gonna fly, they say to avoid big,
27:02
Speaker 2: greasy meals and alcohol the night before, and eat light
27:06
Speaker 2: meals or snacks low en calories the day of.
27:10
Speaker 1: But yeah, you do want to have something in your stomach, though,
27:13
Speaker 1: because that's.
27:13
Speaker 2: Just can't help empty stomach. No good, right, turn that
27:16
Speaker 2: air vent. Whether you're in your car or a plane
27:18
Speaker 2: or a boat, you want some fresh air blowing on
27:21
Speaker 2: your face, ideally or at least recycled air.
27:25
Speaker 1: I felt this bed since then, Anita Bryant Hunt.
27:29
Speaker 2: Sit in the front of the airplane or over a wing, supposedly.
27:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rear of the airplane.
27:34
Speaker 2: Can you tell a difference?
27:35
Speaker 1: Oh man, really, you just get whipped around back and forth.
27:39
Speaker 1: It's way worse if you get motion sick. You should
27:41
Speaker 1: never sit behind the wings of the airplane.
27:45
Speaker 2: See I love the last car of a roller coaster though.
27:48
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you're feeling it more. Yeah, you're enjoying it more.
27:51
Speaker 1: You don't get motion sick.
27:54
Speaker 2: What else avoids salty foods? Before you travel.
27:57
Speaker 1: There's also remedies too, right, So the jury's out on
28:01
Speaker 1: whether ginger actually helps or not if it's just a
28:04
Speaker 1: placebo effect.
28:05
Speaker 2: Ginger, peppermint, and black horehound apparently are some of the
28:09
Speaker 2: herbs that may or may not work. Who knows.
28:13
Speaker 1: I can tell you firsthand, and I looked it up.
28:16
Speaker 1: See bands, acupressure bracelets. Yeah, that go on your wrist,
28:21
Speaker 1: three fingers with down from the heel of your palm.
28:24
Speaker 2: The pericardium six So was the acupuncture point.
28:28
Speaker 1: I saw research that showed that neither placebo nor the
28:33
Speaker 1: acupressure bands had any effect on motion sickness. I can
28:36
Speaker 1: tell you that even if it is just placebo, they
28:39
Speaker 1: still work. Oh yeah, the firsthand, they work all right,
28:43
Speaker 1: even if it's placebo. I don't care. That's fine because
28:46
Speaker 1: it keeps me from being motion sick.
28:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
28:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kept me and you me from being motion
28:51
Speaker 1: sick on an entire cruise.
28:53
Speaker 2: But would you have been motion sick without it?
28:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we had. We didn't use it for one
28:58
Speaker 1: day and we fell immediately.
29:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. I brought one on my only cruise that I
29:04
Speaker 2: went to, and I don't think I wore it because
29:06
Speaker 2: I didn't need to.
29:07
Speaker 1: We had like divots on our wrisk because we just
29:09
Speaker 1: had them on like the whole time. Yeah you should
29:12
Speaker 1: bring it just in case.
29:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure.
29:14
Speaker 1: We also had scopalamine. Yeah, and we didn't even use
29:17
Speaker 1: it because the sea bands work so well.
29:18
Speaker 2: Drama meine is that the same thing or is no different?
29:20
Speaker 1: Scopal of meine is that stuff that like they drug
29:24
Speaker 1: people with and then it's like remember in our truth
29:27
Speaker 1: Sier episode we talked about scopel of me Oh yeah,
29:30
Speaker 1: it's like a drug in South America where they'll they'll
29:33
Speaker 1: dose you with it and then you end up like
29:35
Speaker 1: just basically becoming zombified and don't remember anything. Yeah, it's
29:38
Speaker 1: the same stuff, but it doles the messages from your
29:42
Speaker 1: inner ear to your brain, so your sensation of motion
29:45
Speaker 1: has decreased.
29:46
Speaker 2: Nice homeopathy. There haven't been a ton of studies about
29:51
Speaker 2: the effective effectiveness of specific remedies, but they do say
29:56
Speaker 2: things like borax, calculus, petroleum cpo, tabacum.
30:03
Speaker 1: Dude, So we're going to hear from so many people
30:06
Speaker 1: just for having even uttered the word homeopathy.
30:09
Speaker 2: Is that how you say it? Homeopathy?
30:11
Speaker 1: No, it goes both ways. Okay, Yeah, I know, I mean,
30:15
Speaker 1: nothing drives people more crazy than that. I know they're
30:17
Speaker 1: going to go berserk mark my word.
30:19
Speaker 2: Because it's not you know, well, well I said that
30:24
Speaker 2: that take it or leave it basically. Yeah, some people
30:29
Speaker 2: swear by it. Yeah, man, some people think it's uh.
30:35
Speaker 1: From what I have ever seen, it's like the biggest
30:37
Speaker 1: flash point like of anything, of anything that skeptics talk about.
30:42
Speaker 1: Nothing drives them crazier than homeopathy. Yeah, yeah, like make
30:46
Speaker 1: some nuts. It's kind of funny to watch.
30:48
Speaker 2: It does, because then you people say you shouldn't even
30:50
Speaker 2: say Western versus Eastern medicine. You should say proven science
30:54
Speaker 2: versus like witchcraft.
30:56
Speaker 1: Did people say that on Facebook?
30:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, they get really like, you shouldn't even say say it.
31:02
Speaker 1: I said, you can't say it. Don't even say it?
31:06
Speaker 2: Josh, what else?
31:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm making fun of you.
31:12
Speaker 2: Mind body medicine, biofeedback, training, and relaxation. They did a
31:16
Speaker 2: study of fifty five pilots who had to stop flying
31:20
Speaker 2: due to motion sickness, which, by the way, I didn't
31:23
Speaker 2: know that, Like that frightens me just knowing that that.
31:26
Speaker 1: A pilot can get motion say yeah, but think about
31:29
Speaker 1: it for the pilot. That's like career ending. Oh, I'm
31:31
Speaker 1: sure you know.
31:32
Speaker 2: Seventy six percent of them got over their motion sickness
31:34
Speaker 2: and were able to return to work after biofeedback training
31:37
Speaker 2: and relaxation programs. So basically they sit in that tilta whirl,
31:41
Speaker 2: bring it on, and then biofeedback instruments record temperature, muscle tension,
31:47
Speaker 2: and they use relaxation techniques and mental imagery in the
31:52
Speaker 2: chair and over time, it's sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy,
31:56
Speaker 2: which is another thing that they use, which is like,
31:58
Speaker 2: you know, get in the chair right and do it
32:01
Speaker 2: until right. It doesn't affect you any exposure therapy, right. Yeah.
32:05
Speaker 1: There's this guy named Sam Puma who's a physician and
32:09
Speaker 1: aeronautics engineer. I think maybe at the very least, he's
32:12
Speaker 1: worked in the aerospace industry for a really long time,
32:15
Speaker 1: and he has come up with some habituation exercises where
32:18
Speaker 1: basically you kind of mildly expose your body to the
32:22
Speaker 1: kind of movements it's going to expect on like a
32:25
Speaker 1: space shuttle or whatever ahead of your trip, and you can,
32:29
Speaker 1: he says, you can be prepared and not have any
32:31
Speaker 1: motion sickness and as little as a weak huh. Yeah,
32:35
Speaker 1: and I guess it checks.
32:36
Speaker 2: Out, yeah, because it sounds like, you know, come on,
32:41
Speaker 2: what's this guy selling me?
32:43
Speaker 1: Right?
32:43
Speaker 2: But then the Atlantic author she said, you know, no,
32:46
Speaker 2: apparently it's a real thing.
32:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:48
Speaker 2: And then another good tip that I saw was, if
32:50
Speaker 2: you're in a car and you're not driving, pretend like
32:53
Speaker 2: you're driving. You might feel silly, but you know, pretend
32:56
Speaker 2: like you're driving, maybe even to your hands and anticipate
32:59
Speaker 2: the curves and things.
33:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe give them a little horn, a little imaginary
33:04
Speaker 1: horn once an order.
33:07
Speaker 2: Uh.
33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. The reason why the best seat in a car
33:10
Speaker 1: is the drivers because you can anticipate the movements the
33:13
Speaker 1: car is gonna make. Yeah, which supports sway theory if
33:16
Speaker 1: you think about it, true because you can counteract it.
33:20
Speaker 2: Do you ever have one of those passengers in your
33:22
Speaker 2: car that hits the fake brake because they're nervous. Sure,
33:25
Speaker 2: it's like just an involuntary action. You see them stomp
33:27
Speaker 2: their foot on the floorboard. It's pretty funny. I have
33:31
Speaker 2: one friend in particular that does that.
33:32
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, uh, let's see. I guess that's it, right,
33:37
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. If you want to learn more
33:41
Speaker 1: about motion sickness, you can type those words in the
33:44
Speaker 1: search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com. And since I said
33:47
Speaker 1: search bar, it's time for the listener mayl.
33:52
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this fond sid to to Hey, guys,
33:57
Speaker 2: love the show. I'm a two two maker who knew,
34:02
Speaker 2: but you know.
34:02
Speaker 1: Somebody makes them. Sure they don't just grow on trees.
34:06
Speaker 2: Not anymore. I'm a two two maker and work alone
34:08
Speaker 2: in my studio a lot making tutus. You guys are
34:11
Speaker 2: my company and thank you for that. Also have a
34:13
Speaker 2: Bachelor of Science in ornamental horticulture, so listening to the
34:17
Speaker 2: Bonce episode reminded me of an experience ad with a
34:20
Speaker 2: bonsai master in a class I had in college. The
34:23
Speaker 2: professor covered the art of bonsai leading up to this
34:27
Speaker 2: man's visit. He covered the art, meticulous decisions made in
34:30
Speaker 2: the shaping of the tree, etc. The day came when
34:32
Speaker 2: the master was there to speak with us. We came
34:34
Speaker 2: into class and all of his amazing work was displayed
34:36
Speaker 2: around the classroom. It was really beautiful. Everyone sort of
34:39
Speaker 2: spoke about it in hush stones, very reverent to each other. Finally,
34:43
Speaker 2: the master, who was a rather tiny Japanese man, was
34:46
Speaker 2: ready to demonstrate the technique for us. He unpotted the
34:49
Speaker 2: plant in front of him, spoke about the shape and
34:51
Speaker 2: what he felt would be the best way to train it,
34:54
Speaker 2: and after this, he pulled out a club the size
34:56
Speaker 2: of a baseball bat and beat the crap out of
34:58
Speaker 2: the root ball planning the need to control the plant,
35:01
Speaker 2: and no one knew exactly how to react. I had
35:06
Speaker 2: not thought about that for a really long time, and
35:08
Speaker 2: I listened to the show chuckling the whole time because
35:10
Speaker 2: of it. I thought you might appreciate the story that
35:12
Speaker 2: is from Nancy Gallagher, the Twutu maker.
35:15
Speaker 1: Well thanks a lot, Nancy.
35:17
Speaker 2: Maybe he was just trying to get the dirt away
35:19
Speaker 2: from the roots, I don't know, or.
35:20
Speaker 1: Maybe it was he was just messing with him the
35:22
Speaker 1: bad bonds. I, mister Miagi would never do that.
35:27
Speaker 2: I worked with Pat Marita. Did I mention that on
35:29
Speaker 2: the show? No?
35:30
Speaker 1: Was it?
35:31
Speaker 2: He did a music video that I worked on, Karate
35:35
Speaker 2: Kid Spoof. Oh oh yeah, alien Ant Farm and I
35:39
Speaker 2: worked with him and he was super nice and it
35:41
Speaker 2: was just a couple of years before he died.
35:43
Speaker 1: He's dead. Oh yeah, that's a shame.
35:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, he liked the white wine.
35:50
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think you told me the story before it,
35:52
Speaker 1: so I was familiar.
35:52
Speaker 2: I had to go fetch them some chardonnay. It like noon.
35:57
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, how was Pat Marina
35:59
Speaker 2: on the set of the music video? Sure, I'd be like,
36:01
Speaker 2: I'd have a pa, fetch me some shardonay too.
36:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. Remember he played Al, the replacement Al Arnold on
36:08
Speaker 1: Happy Days. Arnold Al was the name of the actor.
36:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, from California. Pat Marita.
36:15
Speaker 1: What's that to do with it?
36:17
Speaker 2: Nothing?
36:17
Speaker 1: Oh that was an additional fact. Yeah.
36:19
Speaker 2: I just mean some people might see the karate kid
36:21
Speaker 2: and only know that and think he's from Japan, right,
36:25
Speaker 2: but he was putting on that accent. Oh yeah, yeah,
36:28
Speaker 2: he's a California dude, totally.
36:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, like laid back kind of Oh yeah, shardonay guy.
36:33
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about Pat Marita or
36:35
Speaker 1: get in touch with us or whatever, you can send
36:37
Speaker 1: off for more info to SYSK podcast on Twitter or
36:40
Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can join us on Facebook, dot com
36:44
Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an
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Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at houstuffworks dot com and has
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Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web. Stuff
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Speaker 1: you Should Know dot Com.
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Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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