Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer #119 - Dan Raben, LAFC So Cal

Transcript

I Hate Soccer #119 - Dan Raben, LAFC So Cal · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Dan Raven was in town for the North American Soccer Expo, and I got to sit down with him again just like last year.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: He is the Zone 1 director at LAFC SoCal in basically the valley in Southern California, in LA.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: And we discuss the club structure that he was a part of at Loudoun Soccer in Virginia, as well as at LAFC and what he's doing there.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: He presented on actually podcasting.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: His wife, Sarah, is a very renowned podcaster in the um kind of like the celebrity space, I would say.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: And we actually start talking about just referees and referee development and our relationship with referees and what clubs can do to help uh support referees more, what coaches can do to build better relationships, what refs can do to build better relationships.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: But we also just talk about soccer and and development and coaching development, and it's always great to catch up with Dan.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: I've known him for probably I don't know, it's gotta be like 16, 17 years now, easy.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's always good to catch up with him, and I learn every single time that I sit down with him, I learn.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: At the time of this recording, I'm sitting on 4,879 subscribers on YouTube.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: And again, when I'm looking back over our analytics, 70% of those of you that watch on YouTube are not subscribed.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: So before my episode with Dan starts, please hit the subscribe button to make sure that you never miss an episode.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Also, it gives me an opportunity to talk to more people like Dan and go more places and partner with more clubs that are in different areas of the country so that I can continue to bring you guys high, high, high level soccer chats.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: So enjoy getting to know Dan Raymond again.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: So we're not gonna be able to fix that, but we can do little things to build respectful relationships early on that help to negate those bigger things from happening.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: So what throw those on.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Um what got you into like did you ref growing up?
2:43
SPEAKER_00: I I did.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, my my father ran uh at the time the Lakes Area Youth Soccer League.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so I was heavily in like I that's West Spoonfield with some old lake kind of area.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: And so because he ran the league, I was his number one gopher, right?
3:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, like refereeing games, lining fields, stringing up nets on a Saturday morning.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And I actually certified.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Now my brothers were also referees, my dad was a referee.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually certified at age 10.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think I was like fourth grade, fourth grade as a referee.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know they could do that.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, you can't.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that or back in the day, it's because you're dad.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, there were no there were no rules when it came.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: It's it's like it's like there were no seatbelts back in the day.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Like you could put the back seats of the car down and drive up north with no seatbelts.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so I was 10-year- now it's 13, and that's a U.S.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: soccer rule to apply with online registration and and and access for kids.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: But I started as a referee at age 10, and then I'd ref off and on as a middle schooler and a high schooler.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: I took a break when I was in college, I got back into it post-college, but at that same time I was starting my coaching journey.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: And so there was actually kind of a sliding doors moment in my early 20s where I was getting involved in in refereeing, refereing men's league games and Lansing, and they wanted me the State Referee Association was going to ask me to be a referee at State Cup.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of like a big deal.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Big deal.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Because not everyone got to do it.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: And I was coaching, it would have been a bad look if I was coaching and refereeing.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: But I I think about that of had I gone down that path, you know, maybe I could have been a college referee.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I could have gone down that road and and made it like a part-time career.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh it's always been a when I say it's been a passion, the reality of officiating within the grand scheme of youth soccer is that if you look at the last 10 years, players have gotten better, coaches have gotten better, clubs have gotten more organized, leagues have gotten more organized, um, fields have become better, right?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: But the referee development has not come has not improved at the same clip.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: And so the more I can do in whatever role I'm I'm in to help referees get better, uh all that does is make the game day experience for kids better.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think more clubs and coaches need to invest their time and energy in that.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing right now with refs?
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I just spoke to a group of about 50 referees.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And I broke it.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: What I what I provided them was some some gap, some educations in the referee gap, uh and some some educations to address the gaps in how referees are trained.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times referees are trained how, you know, on the laws of the game, um, the proper mechanics and and signals, uh, they're like how to talk to your assigner to get games, but they're certain things like how do you talk to a coach who's screaming at you?
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Not just like throw a yellow card at them and tell them to be quiet, but how do you decipher what a coach who's frequently generically commenting on every call versus the guy who speaks up after 30 minutes and says, Hey, you needed to you called that same whistle 10 minutes ago over on that side of the field, you got to call the same thing right there in that moment, too.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Right?
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Like not all criticisms or comments from coaches are the same.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: And so, how as a referee do you determine that?
6:25
SPEAKER_00: But we also, I mean, the grand, the grand, the, the, the presentation was how do we build respectful relationships on game day?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Because there are too many um just conflicts that take place between coaches and referees from a cultural standpoint.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: But what can, and originally was supposed to be uh a dual presentation of what coaches can do to build a positive relationship, what referees can do.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: We only had one coach in the audience, so I only focused on the referees.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Um that's interesting.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and to be fair, the the coach that was there is the husband of one of the referee assigners who wanted there.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: So he kind of had to be there.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: But um, it was more to it was little things that are not really taught.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you a small but significant example.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: When your team is warming up and the referee needs to check your team in before kickoff, the referee should ask the coach, is this a good time or when is a good time to check your team in?
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Because nine times out of 10, the team is in warm-up and the referee interrupts interrupts the warm-up and says, Coach, let me check your team in.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: And now that is a very invasive way to introduce yourself to a team and to a coach.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It creates a natural conflict and animosity where in almost to some degree a disrespect because this team is in the middle of a rhythm and now we're gonna stop their rhythm to go check them in.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of disrespectful, right?
7:52
SPEAKER_00: From a player perspective or from a team perspective.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So when a referee asks the coach, is this a good time?
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So much better.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Now we're collaborative and now we're respectful, and and you're less likely to create an adversarial relationship right out of the gate.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: So but the presentation today was really a toward uh collaborating with the state, yeah, collaborating with the state referee committee, which I've done before.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh I actually did a presentation, I think, like probably 18 years ago to the state referees.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, at the time, the grades five, sixes, and sevens, they've done away with that category.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they did it's just what is it now?
8:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like grass.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: It's like grassroots and then regional.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: I I don't even know.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: I had a I had a ref on uh MLS referee uh when I was at uh cup playoffs um for MLS next, and yeah, he kind of like broke that down and everything.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, do you do you think there's enough education?
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that like I feel that with refs you go when you're 10 years old in your face?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Um and then maybe you recertify and stuff like that, but it's not like new stuff, or is it am I wrong?
9:09
SPEAKER_00: So so this is the challenge, and there's there's similar gaps when it comes to coaching too, right?
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, where as a referee, you certify, you take an online module.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: This and I I'm not certain this is the process because it's been a long time since I've certified.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you take you take an online class, you have an in-person component where you're working with a senior referee on um like what I used to do at my club in Virginia was we would partner with the state referee committee, we would host courses, we would provide teams for them to play games to give those referees live action to officiate and get immediate feedback from their referee instructor or referee educator.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Now that was a great way to get them started, but then when you start accepting assignments, unless you have, unless you're working as part of a three-person crew and you have a senior referee who can provide you feedback, or unless you have a senior referee, like a referee mentor or teacher or coach who's there at the field with you, you're not getting any feedback except from the coaches and the parents who are yelling at you.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: And so then when you recertify, you go through and learn, and you know, there's modules on learning the new laws of the game.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: But it's ultimately the can it's it's up to you to become better.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: And so in Michigan, the state referee uh committee does a great job of putting out content uh about like like points of emphases and videos and and creating these continuing education opportunities, but you know, what percentage of referees are actively pursuing it?
10:50
SPEAKER_00: So so that is that's where the major gap is, is that once you become certified, the recertification process from an educational standpoint is a joke, right?
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you you will recertify, you will take the test, and even if you fail, you'll retake it and they'll they'll they'll pass you through.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: So there the the major gap, and I'll I'll share a story of what I ended doing with my club in Virginia at the time, is how do you develop the referees once they've become certified?
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And so uh one of the things we did at Loud and Soccer was we hired or or would take senior referees and we would get them out to our rec games at the first or second weekend of the season.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And there might be four games going on simultaneously, four, four on four games.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And we would have one senior referee bouncing between those four fields so that in between each quarter or each half, they could provide that referee just a snippet of feedback and make them a little bit better.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just little things like you need to blow your whistle louder.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Or you need to move outside the center circle and keep up with the play.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Or, hey, in that moment, you you you hesitated to blow that that foul, you your your instinct was right.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Why did you not blow that foul?
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: And that was something that I took from Carlos Folino, uh, you know, longtime referee uh administrator for the state.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: He said, from a referee retention pro uh standpoint, if you can get out to referees within their first week or two of officiating, your likelihood of retaining them is significantly higher than not because the the attrition rate for referees across the country is so significant because they're not getting back, they're not getting continuing education.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: I feel like uh in our coaching development, we always relied on mentors, and I don't think there's enough mentors in that refereeing space, maybe.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's harder to get access to good uh referee mentors.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, those refs that were roughing those games, were they part of your club?
13:03
SPEAKER_00: So technically, no.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: They were assigned, and this is this is where we kind of did it below, you know, on the DL, so to speak, because we did not coordinate with this at the time with Virginia's referee committee.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: We what we did we was because no referee is part of your club.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: They're all independent contractors, they're all free to accept assignments anywhere around the state from from whatever assigners.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: But what we ended up doing was we hired one of those referees who was a community member, and we said, you're our referee director.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: And and part of it was the referees who were actively working our recreational games because of where we were geographically, they weren't accepting assignments from other other referee assigners.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: They were really primarily focusing on us.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: So even though they weren't our referees, we invested several thousands of dollars in their development because they needed it.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: And in turn, it was going to make our player experience better, uh, because we were gonna give them support that they wouldn't ordinarily get.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: I think that more clubs should do that.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Why don't they have like a referee branch?
14:12
SPEAKER_00: You out of here, bud?
14:13
SPEAKER_00: The the reality the reality is there are a lot of in every club has challenges that they have to deal with, right?
14:25
SPEAKER_00: And and there the the referee element by design is separate from the clubs in the leagues, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_00: There needs to be some autonomy, right?
14:34
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, coaches and clubs need to take more effort because the referee, we all have high standards of what we think a referee should be, and that's not realistic.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: But if we're gonna make them better, we have to do things to make them better.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: So some of it might be coaching education of how do you talk to a referee?
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, or it might be parents to correct.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'll give you a great example when I was involved with TNT, is that the state referee uh chair at the time, Francisco Villarule, he lived in the Lansing area and we had a great relationship.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: And he would always offer, and I'm not sure, I can't recall whether we actually did this, but before the advent of online modules for certification, it was only an in-person class.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And so he would say, if your club wants to do something for your players, you know, you're gonna take all your high school boys and offer them their own referee class, I will do this class just for your, your, your, your, your kids.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: And that was just something that, like, this is a collaborative effort because now if a player becomes a referee, they probably become a little more knowledgeable of the game.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: You're helping their personal development, they might become referees and take that as part of their post-playing career.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: They might be more respectful.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: But but there's a there's a flip side to that, and I can tell you what happened to me one game when I when I was I I was uh, I think I was like U16 or U17, and I got fouled just outside the top of the penalty area.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I was playing up top, and um the ball gets stopped, and the other team sets their wall about five yards away, and I paced out 10 yards for them.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I stopped for the ball, I paced out 10 yards and pointed right there, and I turned around.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Referee gave me a caution uh for that.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes really oh yeah, oh yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: Um but sometimes sometimes you a little bit of knowledge creates that that that uh confidence or uh uh whatever it might be.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's the reality is there's gonna be more positive things than negative things.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: So I had I would say probably a U15, maybe U16 boys team, and I thought it would be a brilliant idea to have every single one of them go get their roughing certification, and it's good money.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good money for a teenager kid.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: What what in what world can a 15-year-old make$30 an hour?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, man, this is great, you know, they're gonna be so respectful.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: No, it actually was the worst backfire of all time because now they were smarter than the referee.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: They're like, actually, rule number 76 says that is not a foul.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my god, you created a monster.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: I created a monster, but throughout throughout this podcast and it's almost like if if I listened back to every single episode, I could or anybody could build the perfect club.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Because of just everybody that that I've talked to, and uh I learned somebody something from somebody every single time.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that I would have a re uh if I had a club, I would have a referee branch.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say, like, you know what, every c kid at this age in the club is gonna go get their certificate.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: And then when you build out your youth academy, you can have all in in club refs ref your uh youth academy.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: In theory, now to be fair, there are some circumstances that would not make them officially part of your club because referees are part of US soccer.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so they can't like while what in you know you don't pay the referees directly, you pay the assigner, and the assigner pays the referees.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Um or or so it's it's there's always there's separation, is ultimately what it comes down to.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: But to your point, and I'll go back to what I did with my club in Virginia, we hired someone, and we and he was a someone who was certified as a referee, and we said, Your job is to develop your we call them the gray beards, get all the gray beards out and get them working with referees.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: And we then created, and this is something again I took from Michigan.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: We we started creating our referee academy, and and and what we did because at the time we had a rec plus division called Challenge, still exists for Laude.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: And what we would uh try to do is give the referee academy these challenge, some of these challenge games.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: So there would be a three-person crew working three games, and each game there would be a different center referee.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: So they they they they'd work through, right?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: And then in between games, the senior referee who was observing maybe the two games going on or just the one field would give the crew feedback at halftime and in between games, and they would be able to give uh uh constructive feedback to the center referee as soon as they were done with that game, to then kind of mull it over as they as an AR on the next one.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And so, again, these were things that weren't necessarily sanctioned by the state referee association, but who cares?
20:09
SPEAKER_00: We're making the game better.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: And if so, to your point, for any club that has a recreational program, they need to invest time and energy in the referees, and you get creative with it.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: One of the ideas that I had, and I wasn't able to get it off the ground when I was there, but what Loudoin did recently was they partnered with one of the schools and they created a referee club, and so they they paid for all those 10 referees in the referee club to get certified.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And the Is this soccer only?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Soccer club.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Or could it you could do something like that where it's where it's every sport?
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: But the idea was let's take these 10 freshmen and sophomores, certify them as officials.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: The pledge was because we're paying for your certification and giving you gear, the expectation is that you're available to accept assignments on these dates and at these times, right?
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, because that's one of the fears of outfitting referees with gear and and paying for their uh certification is if they quit six months later, that's money that you've just lost that you've invested in.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So you're trying to find ways to retain your officials at the same time.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: But if you're running a full-service soccer organization with grassroots programming, that is a no-brainer of being able to find ways to certify refs, incentivize them to do it.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, one of the things that we did with Loudoun was um a point system for every game that you officiated.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And if and so like you might only get a half a point if you're officiating the four on four rec games.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: You might get two points if you're officiating an ECNL match, right?
21:48
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of the season, there was a pay scale.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: So you got bonus dollars for how many points that you achieved working our games.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: And so it was additional money.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: And you gamify it kind of correct.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: And then the other piece of it was once as a new official, one time you reached, I think it was six points.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: So if the moment you've done 12 mini games, yeah, you get it, you get a bonus that that re uh that reimburses you for your certification.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: So there are all sorts of ways, and you say, why do clubs not do it?
22:21
SPEAKER_00: A it costs money, there's a bit of time.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And then I also think that clubs are when I use this word, it always has a negative connotation, maybe ignorant of like what they can do to help and support.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh because you know, everyone stays in their lane.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stay in the coaching and the player development room, I'm not gonna focus on the referees, and frankly, I think there needs to be more collaboration between all the entities.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: You know what else I would do?
22:52
SPEAKER_01: I would and I brought this up um with the referee, um Alan Chapman.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Um I would have all okay, when you're walking around a soccer complex, which which field is louder from parents?
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Is it the U8s and U9s, or is it the U18s?
23:15
SPEAKER_01: From the parents, is it the U8s and U9s?
23:17
SPEAKER_01: It was all it's almost like hey, everybody from U8, U9, maybe U10, we want you to go to our U16 boys ECNL or MLS Nats or Girls ECNL, whatever, and just go watch.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: And I want you to not only watch the game, but listen to the game.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Because you guys are going nuts at the eight and nine-year-old age group, and they're not.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: When I'm walking the fields at like MLS next fest or something like that, it's silent.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: All I hear is the players talking.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: That's all I hear.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, maybe I would do that or something like that.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: No, there's there's there's there's or parent.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: At the very least, at the very least, there there needs to be an at the educational component to the parents as well as to the coaches.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: And correct.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And and so, you know, I I I have zero tolerance when it comes to referee abuse with anyone in my sideline.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Same.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: And and and and it's not necessarily for the reason most people think.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, there there are now steep fines and consequences for referee abuse, right?
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Mostly like US soccer has a policy, a lot of leagues have their own separate policy.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: And like in Southern California with the big league that we cling in, if you get sent off, you have to complete this online class that you have to pay for and then provide the comp the certificate of completion to the league beyond whatever suspension route you have.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Is that a state league or is that like ECL?
24:53
SPEAKER_00: It's SoCal, which is a U.S.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: club league.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay so, but then they also have the US soccer um mandatory minimums when it comes to suspensions and fines.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: So, to be fair, to give U.S.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: soccer credit and the league's credit, they've really made a concerned effort to stop it to and to protect the refs.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: My motivation beyond that when I coach kids is that I do not want anyone on my team to have a victim mentality.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And think about how many games you have either played or coached where you or someone's walked off the field and said the ref lost the game for us.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: No offense, Argentina.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Look at how they reacted victim mentality, the entire World Cup.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: And and when we're talking about teaching youth, right, we're talking about accountability, responsibility.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I maybe I'm overinflating it, but you think about the lessons that we instill and then how it applies later in life.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: So you have a job interview, okay, and normally it's 30 minutes to get to that office for your job interview, but there's traffic that day and you're late for the job interview.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you blame traffic or do you blame yourself for not leaving room in the margin?
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And so the victim mentality is something that I like if you've truly been victimized, I understand we all have trauma.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to blaming things that are out of our control for things that we we can actually control, you know, in this case for the traffic situation, leave earlier for the rep for the for the bad call that loses the game, be better.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Be better, be play better to be able to overcome that bad call.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Never mind the fact that there was probably a bad call earlier in the game that benefited you, and you and your team did not tell the referee it should have gone the other way.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: So there's there is this.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: I I think I think the I shared this just now with the presentation of the referees.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: We as a American culture, I not even an American culture, but like within soccer, but then and then in in our country, we don't respect referees.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: And in some countries, it's just it's just commonplace.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: I was I forget who I was talking to, and he was telling me about uh one day he had a like they had a Brazilian exchange student who during one of his games, you know, told told the referee to F off, and like he quickly is like, no, you don't do that.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: He goes, I do that all the time in my country.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: We do that all the time in our country.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like accepted behavior, right?
27:23
SPEAKER_00: And so we have a culture that allows that type of behavior to take place, but that doesn't make it right.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean it translates or trickles into the youth game.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: So we we all have a responsibility as coaches and as club directors and as soccer leaders to teach respect, to teach focusing on your own, what you can control, not the things that are out of your control, and then being able to overcome circumstances that go against you.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Like we all to talk about grit and adversity, be better than the bad call that goes against you.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And then do we really think that yelling at a referee is gonna make them change their mind?
27:59
SPEAKER_01: No, it's cathartic, though.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: He's like, you know what?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I am gonna go back and change my call.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: Now, there is something to let's get on the referee so that we get the next call.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: I do think that exists.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's there's a level of gamesmanship when it comes to it.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: And and and it, you know, the the the challenge, and this is something I shared in the presentation, the referee's job is to manage the game that day.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: The coach's job is to manage the development of that player through the course of their season and and and their their experience with the club.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: So anytime that sort of we'll call that dark art of referee manipulation is used, yeah, you might be doing it to win the day, but are you really helping your kids at the long, you know, in the long-term growth and and development?
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you're you're modeling a negative behavior that they're gonna follow.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: I okay, going back to going back to your uh your example of just being being late to practice or driving or your commute and stuff like that.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about LAFC or SoCal?
29:05
SPEAKER_01: LAFC SoCal Youth.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: And you guys just won an ECNL national title.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: We did our 2012 boys just won't be.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we completely yeah, and that was a team that you know started the year kind of dicey, and and they they made it, they got together and made a good run.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And and uh it's it's it's it's actually we won two years ago, we won two national championships, our 08s and our 2010s.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, I joke that really, yeah.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: We won we won in 2024, and I make the joke, I had started that week, so I made the joke like my presence.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Listen, since I've joined, we've won two national championships.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: And so you're welcome.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we we had, if I'm not mistaken, I think all of our ECNL teams qualified for playoffs.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you've got to get to the final four of playoffs to get to the the national championship.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Is Boys set up like the girls where it's like Champions League and then North American Cup?
30:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not boys' is smaller, and if I'm not mistaken, at most of the age groups, they bring in like 66 teams.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: You play group a round robin group of four, and then either the first, I think it's maybe the first place team or maybe the first and second place teams, then go to a knockout round, and you play knockouts until you get to the final four, right?
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And then the final four is a month later in Richard.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: How are your girls in uh ECNL?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: They are okay, yeah.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And our girls are not as strong as our boys, right?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, like our boys' side is uh, you know, like it's is is good.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Our boys' side is very strong, very deep.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that is that's the soccer culture.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's the soccer culture that we're in in Southern California, right?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Especially where we are, where we are in the valley, um, where boys is just far more competitive than the girls.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: You're in the valley?
30:55
SPEAKER_01: How's that?
30:58
SPEAKER_00: You want to ask me like Cobra Kai questions?
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's not as much karate that takes place.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm fascinated because I had Willie Diaz on from Strikers, and he was talking about how like there's a uh a uh complex out there, and everybody trains there.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like slammers is here, uh, surf is here, strike, yeah, patio, reds, patio.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Is that how it is around you are?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Where are you?
31:25
SPEAKER_00: So we we are fortunate from a geographic standpoint that we are the big bad wolf of the valley.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh um, some may even call us the evil empire.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we are the biggest, we're the biggest and and strongest club in the valley.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Clubs here are called that correct.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh I used a wharf for one.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: And so we there are other clubs around us that are competitive, but we have we we are the biggest on the at least on the boys' side, we are the biggest, strongest club.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: The girl side, there are some outlier teams, but from a ECNL standpoint, if you if you're in the valley and you want to play ECNL and you don't want to travel two hours to Slammers, you you play for us.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And so is Slammers in LA?
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Slammers is in Orange County.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Orange County is in LA?
32:12
SPEAKER_00: South of LA.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: That's two hours away.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, depending on where you are, because traffic is uh is abysmal.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: So no, we we lose some kids to Slammers and SoCal Blues who you know at age 10, uh, because mom and dad think it's a better environment.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And I also think they like to brag about having to drive three hours round trip for 10-year-old soccer for just training.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: But um going back to LAFC, we've got um we're unique in one sense in Southern California that we are full service.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: So we have a recreational league underneath us called the West Valley Soccer League, uh, which is about 2,500 kids here or there.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then we have our competitive side, which is about 1,100 kids, 75-ish teams.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Um and they're all in the valley.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: So so we're all we're we we train primarily out of woodland hills.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, we've got some facilities in Encino that we use, but we're we're predominantly in the valley, which is which which helps us in the sense of being able to attract kids from the valley because we're centrally located.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: We might get some kids from Santa Barbara, we might get some kids from Santa Clarita.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we might even get some kids from West LA who wanna wanna, you know, here's your LA LA talk, who wanna take the 405 to the 110 to get over.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and and so, but at the same time, we also lose some kids because if they want to go play for MLS next, MLS next or MLS Academy.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: And we s we regularly send kids to LAFC Academy for their program uh because of the relationship we we set up friendlies with their academy all the time because we want our players to work.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Go into that relationship, like how it is in name only or is it legit partnership?
34:04
SPEAKER_01: Because remember when it was like the Grand Rapids crew, yeah, and it they didn't really get anything.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: It's there, it's more of a partnership, okay, but we're two separate entities.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: So LAFC Academy is not going to tell us here's your style of play.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: They're not going to tell us this player needs to be on that team.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: All right.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Um there are collaborations that we have where like if I want to go watch for the first team train, I could go do that.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a couple we have we have a couple coaches who are now coaching their academy system.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh the now they had the they did an open hiring, but we had a couple of our coaches get hired for their academy system, which is kind of cool.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we there is a branding element to it, uh, but at the same time, there is a legitimate dialogue where like over the last uh last year, you know, our 2015s would play their 2015s.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: And and and there were some times where our younger teams were just as good, if not better, than their younger teams.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: But we we will regularly, when I say lose, we're where kids are being promoted from our program to their, but there's not an exclusivity.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you're a good player at another club and you go try out for LAFC, you can make that team.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's not like a exclusive pipeline of us to them, but out of the two, you know, the two clubs that probably have the most representation in their academy would be us and then a club called TFA.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And and and that was Melly's old club.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's where a lot of players uh migrate from to LAFC's academy.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Is it separate owners as well?
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Or is Larry Bergman?
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Separate owners, separate organizations.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: We're a 501c3, they are a MLS club.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I found out yesterday from Luis, and this isn't Aaron, until I it's being announced Monday that Larry Berg is gonna be the new commission.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I've I've heard some stories too.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's that's at least that's that is what Luis told me.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: So uh, and then it's crazy.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's a different scene.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and where where LFC SoCal is different than a lot of clubs, and it's probably similar to the scene in Michigan where most clubs are just competitive only.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: They're you know, in in in here we call we might call the club's premiere in Virginia we call it travel.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Here with in California we call it clubs.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: I wish we just had a universal yeah, because in Buffalo it's called travel.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like what?
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, what's funny is uh one of the guys at Loud and his title was travel director.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and everyone's like what your booking cruises.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Um Right.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: But that's funny.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: But uh, but uh we're full service, so we have a recreational program, which is great.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: And then, but like there aren't many clubs in Michigan that have a recreational program underneath them, you know, like DCFC West Youth has the Canton Soccer Club underneath it.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, when I start thinking like some like I'm not cunting junior jags as a as a recreational program.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Um what would you count at that as?
37:20
SPEAKER_00: I'd say that's a developmental program.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a grassroots program that's developmental, but it's it's not your traditional recreation volunteer coaches leading teams.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: And so we that's a huge advantage for us because it's a natural pipeline.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Like we we have a program called Pre-Club at U7.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: So kids come out and they technically try out, right?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, which is insane when you're talking about six and seven-year-olds.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: But part of it is we need there's only so many kids that we can take in the program.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we train those kids.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: 2500, you said, right?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: We train those kids, they get professional coaches, they play internal matches, and then the hope is that that core group becomes what what will translate into what becomes our U8 competitive teams, and we're rolling out five or six U8 competitive teams that like some of them are bomb squads at U8.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and part of it is because we got an early start on building our teams because we're developing these players at six and seven, and then uh we know who they are to make it easier to form the teams at U8.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Donnie Koont and I were talking um about uh just how different soccer is now, yeah.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And when we started coaching, at least when I played uh travel club, whatever, it didn't really start till 11, like 10 or 11.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And then something switched, and now uh then it was eight.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: That then Michigan Byrne, Joey Gallagher, would put five and six-year-olds together.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep, they'd put them in the U8 division, get stopped.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: The next year, their sevens playing U8, and they would they would lose, but they would do better.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: By the time they were true age group, they were ballers, they were insane.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think uh and uh again, and like thinking of like the perfect club, that's what I would do.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, the the the reality is that this generation of players and their parents no longer, and and and I don't know how universal the term is, but I heard it with excuse me, one of the my recreational parents when I was in Virginia, they call it daddy ball.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: They don't want daddy, they don't want volunteer coaches.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: They don't want the the the coach who either doesn't know kids or doesn't know the game or doesn't know how to teach.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: They want more structured programming.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: And so they're willing to pay more for it and and and almost sacrifice that grassroots experience so that my child is getting taught how to play the game.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: And whether it's a program that's a training program like Junior Jags or I know Nationals has uh a juniors program or I for I forget what they call it.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're um, but like uh um uh Seth Steinwasher, I think, is overseeing it, right?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Seth, uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: She just got married.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: So um a lot of clubs will have these types of feeder programs because they don't have a recreational program to feed it.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: If we can, as clubs, can invest in those younger players, then you have a natural pipeline.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: The challenge with that, of course, is um you really need a coach who understands younger kids, like almost like a Pied Piper.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: And then you have to be able to compensate them too.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: And then they also have to be what do you mean by compensation?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you mean pay the coaches?
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and and it's the sense of, you know, if I can get paid X to coach a club team, yeah, and then I'm gonna get paid less to do this junior's program.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: And then there also has to be a bit of a desire to do it, and so uh I keep coming back, I keep coming back to Loudoun Soccer as my example because that's the program that was a full service club, and I was the recreational director of player development, but I oversaw the recreational program.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: Were you there the longest out of TNT?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Obviously LAFC, not as long.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh um were you at Loudoun the longest?
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I was at TNT for about 10 years, okay, and then in Loudoun for 10 years.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, got it.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: And so what we developed in my first year there, there was already the bones of the program.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but what we developed was the U8 Academy, and and we selected 48 boys and 48 girls, and we had them in pods of 12, and that those those player pods rotated every week or two.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: So you'd have a different group and a different coach, but we were all working on the same curriculum.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And on game day, we played four on four.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: And instead of it being against another team, I would have my group of 12.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: I'd split them into two teams of six.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we play four on four, I'd coach both teams, and that was their competitive game.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: And every now and then we would set up friendlies with other clubs and their programs, or we might go to like a rec all-star tournament with a team and and give them that opportunity.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: But what that did was it created a player pool of 48 kids at the end of the year that the hope was most of them were gonna come try out at U9, because that's when club soccer started for them at the time.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: And now we have a a base of building our four or five teams in each age group from kids that are coming through.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't charge a lot of money for what that program was.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: These families were getting three sessions a week, two training sessions and a game day, uh, getting their uniform included, all being led by professional coaches, like a licensed coaches.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: What age is this?
42:54
SPEAKER_00: This was seven and eight-year-olds.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Three training sessions?
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, two game, two training sessions and then a game day.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got it, got it, got it.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: And so three tough.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, three, exactly.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: And then, and and it was such a great experience because and for me personally, as competitive as I am, like I get a lot of joy working with kids.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: And I have a, you know, uh 10 years ago I was a little more youthful and and exuberant, but I still have that little pep in my step when we're working with younger kids.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, there are certain coaches in this world who have a gift, you know, like Vince Gansberg was out here earlier, and Vince is magic with younger kids.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so when you can find a coach in your organization who is that Pied Piper and being able to get kids to train and be focused, um, you've got to keep that person in place.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: And unless they have, you know, part of the way you do it is by maybe giving them a leadership role, compensating them well, because you know, any when I say anyone, most people can go coach a U13, 11 a side table, right?
43:58
SPEAKER_00: But not everyone can go coach.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Coach a nine-year-old team or an eight-year-old team.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: No.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And I always like whenever this comes up in conversation, I always like bring up Nick Darren.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: So Nick, a licensed coach, coach college, is coaching Flint City tonight in the national championship game.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: And he is most passionate right now about nine and ten year olds.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Does he have kids who play in that age?
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh he does, I believe.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: But he's like, and I've heard great things about those like his sessions because I've re I coached with him at uh University of Detroit.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: And I know how he is.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And I guess he's the exact same way with the kids, and they are flying around and he loves it.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: And he wants to come on.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: And I want to just talk about like old times and stuff like that.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: And um, but he's just so passionate and so energetic.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's like a licensed coach, all this, all these all this credentials, and he is U9 and U10, and and I I wish more coaches were like that.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: I've gotten so many DMs from young want-to-be coaches, or people that are like, hey, how do I get into coaching?
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And they're always like, but I only want to coach like 15 and up.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, don't microwave this process.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: You need to do it all.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: I truly believe that you that you need to do it all because you're not gonna have uh the self-awareness of what you're really good at and what you really care about unless you do it all.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: And you can take what Renee Mullenstein was saying last night in his QA about his experience starting in the academy, working with the youth players, yeah, migrating up into the reserve team and then the first team.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: And and that type of journey does give you that perspective of what you want to do.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: I also think there's an element of you know, paying your dues, earning your stripes to get to that certain point.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, again, you've as a as a coach, I think, I think there's a natural progression from being coming a player to a coach, right?
46:02
SPEAKER_00: When you're a player, you have a competitive, you got a competitive itch that needs to be scratched.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: And that carries over into being a coach.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: And so where are you gonna get the most competition?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: The high school ages.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's and that also also is probably most what was most comparable to your previous playing experience or your most recent playing experience.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: You're the second person that says it.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: And so now this is where I want to do.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, very rarely, and this is this is this is a great way for players to get an early jump, is that when you're in middle school, maybe not middle school, but high school, go be an assistant coach on a rec team or go ask your club, hey, can I help out with our under eight program?
46:43
SPEAKER_01: Bingo.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: And now you you're getting, you know, you might get your I I had a I just taught a D license course.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: And one of the coaches, um, I think was 16, 17 years old.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: And and uh he he actually plays in the club I used to be with in LA.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's funny, like we we I had to do a one-on-one Zoom with him at the end of his course, and I had to have his dad in the room because of Safe Sport, because he's 16.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: And and but I I told him, I said, you are gonna have a head start over all of your peers.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because now it's not just the the license that you've earned, but it's some of this experience that you have coaching.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: I think he's coaching like a recreational team.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: And and I what I what I suggested to him was I said, you know, what time is your team train at night?
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Because he's I think uh 2010, so he's like a U17 now.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I said, you probably have the 7:30 to nine o'clock slot for your training session.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Find out which teams are training at six, get out there early and see which teams you can help out, because that's just like, and because you've got some good coaches in your club that you can learn from, and that's going to help make you such a better coach when you when you're when you get back into it.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: I uh one of my regrets as a player is I didn't keep like a journal, I kept a journal or like a soccer journal, but I didn't it was more just about me.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't what my coaches were doing, or like uh great drills that I ended up loving, you know.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: And I wish I did.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: I wish I did keep drills and stuff like that, or coaching points and stuff like that, because I I think I would because I had some really good coaches growing up, but I forgot, like I've forgotten it all.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's hindsight.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, 16-year-old Jason wasn't thinking about becoming coach uh at that time.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: No.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but but those are the types of things that are helpful.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: You probably do remember though, how a coach treated you, yep, what was their motivation technique, what what worked, what didn't, and then that helps to shape you a little bit.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite memories.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: So this is before I was a full-time goalkeeper.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm still playing on the field.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: I had a goal a great uh club setup because of um we have three goalkeepers and we were all good, and we were all good on the field.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: So we could just rotate and we didn't all want to be a full-time goalkeeper.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: But one game, I'm talking on the sidelines, I'm on the field, I'm not in goal, uh I'm on the sideline.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know, it's okay, it's okay.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Like my teammate was like, Why are you on the bench or something like that?
49:28
SPEAKER_01: And I go, I'm okay.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: In high school, I'm gonna have to be a goalkeeper, and I'm not always gonna play.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna have to get used to, you know, sitting on the bench.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: Coach overheard that and didn't play me the rest of the game.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: And my dad was livid, he wanted to go to Ed, that was my coach, Ed Hoover, and he was like, Why didn't he play you?
49:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Dad is my fault.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I was I was saying some stuff that I probably shouldn't have said, and he was telling teaching me a lesson.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's like that, like I I remember that, sure, and I'm sure that there were more moments like that that if I kept that journal or whatever, yeah, that I would I would remember.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think though the reality is that kind of learned experience and being able to keep I I think you and I may have even talked about this on a uh a year ago, is the best thing a young coach can do is find mentors and peer mentors that they can work with and get better in.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: Because there's only so much learning you're gonna get from a course or from a license or coming to the expo and watching uh a coach work.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Like those are all concrete things to get better in.
50:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I was fortunate to work with Don Gemmel, Brett Jacobs, Todd Derby.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I watched some very good I worked with some very good coaches at a young age, and that made me a better coach.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: I was such on-the-job training right there.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: And and so when you can do that and be in like, but not everyone either has the patience or the time to to to to expose themselves.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: So you try and find ways to do it.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the things that you know, you talked about Willie uh and being at Great Park with all the different yeah Irvine clubs and Orange County clubs playing, and and what that environment does.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: We have a central training location at LAFC SoCal.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: We train at Pierce College, and it's two very large crummy grass fields.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean they're not that bad.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're in the desert, so you know, so so sometimes it's green, sometimes it's not.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: By the end of the year, by the end of each season, we're playing on dirt.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Um but the start of each year, it's like Wembley Stadium.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: But what's cool about it though is on any given day, you could have 15 or 16 teams sit training simultaneously, all on a on a half field space, like a half, like a nine, half of a nine-aside field space.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: And that sort of environment makes everyone sharp.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: Because you, you know, people are gonna be looking at your session.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the other piece of it is, you know, if my team's training at six, I might come early and watch the 430 training session and see what some other coaches are doing.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: Or if I'm training at 4:30, I might stick around for the six o'clock session and watch some of the things these other coaches are doing.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, you have to be naturally curious to want to do this sort of stuff.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: But when you have that type of opportunity and then you don't take the effort to just stick around for a half hour to watch something, right?
52:38
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's on you.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Going full circle.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Do you think refs do that?
52:43
SPEAKER_01: Like if it's like a top referee.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh do they sit and watch that?
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: I know it did happen at MLS next cup because everybody wanted to go watch the he so the MLS ref yeah refed a game.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh at the cup.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: And uh there was if any of the other referees were off, they were all at that field because they wanted to watch him.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're also dealing with the upper echelon echelon of referees.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: They all want to be a pro ref.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: And so the when they're motivated, they're gonna do it.
53:17
SPEAKER_00: But when you're talking about the referee at Novi Community Sports Park, exactly, is is there are they gonna stick around and watch another referee?
53:25
SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's a great opportunity for them to do it, to see their movement, their mechanics, their game management.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, though it's it whether you're a ref, whether you're a player, whether you're a coach, you know, it's just it's just being continuing to be curious and and having the drive to get better.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the key.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, being able to make the most of those opportunities because we're all stretched with time and other responsibilities.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: How big, how big is the valley?
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, the valley's big, like geographically population-wise, it's I mean, it's it's a I I don't know, I couldn't tell you the millions of people that live there, but you know, LA County, you know, there's the city of Los Angeles, and then there's LA County.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: And so the valley's part of LA County, but then you've also got that's the San Fernando Valley.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: Then you've got the San Gabriel Valley to the east, you've got the Santa Clarita, Santa Clarita north.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Um which valley are you in?
54:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm in the San Fernando Valley.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: And and so we're part of LA County.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I we could quickly look on Wikipedia to see how many millions of people, but it's it's it's a massive population in itself.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Was it going from well, because loud in Virginia is kind of crazy too.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: Because that's technically DMV, isn't it?
54:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Was that a wake-up call or that not a wake-up call, but maybe like a shock to the system going from Lansing to Virginia and then Virginia to LA.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: To some degree.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: Like are we talking just pure soccer standpoint or life?
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Soccer.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, life, life, I would say DC is probably crazier than LA.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: It's it's they've all they've all got their quirks.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: DC's nuts.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: But with I love DC though.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favorite cities to it.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I went from TNT, which was at our peak, 500 kids, to Loudon Soccer.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: Really?
55:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: We're 30 teams, 500 kids.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: That was that small.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: We punched above our weight.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you did.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: And you look at the coaches who've come out of there.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, I talked to Bill about it.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I just had him on.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Yep, you've costlers and and and Boyle and Derby and Sorg and me and um Heller, and I mean, you've had you've got oh yeah, Stacy.
55:42
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
55:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's there's a ton of ton of coaches who were part of that organization who've gone on to do tremendous things.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: Um so Lansing, you know, TMC was small.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: I went then went to Loudoun, that was um, you know, 1,100 competitive players and 7,000 recreational players, right?
56:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so a massive organizational difference.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: 7,000.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: But what what it it wasn't that challeng when I say challenging, it wasn't that big of a culture shock for two reasons.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: One was the blueprint that we used in Michigan could easily scale to the things we wanted to do in Virginia.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that I find, and I think that you and I may have talked about this previously, Michigan is a ahead of the curve with a lot of things from a soccer stamba, from cult club development, um, trends, collaboration.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: Um collaboration's the big one.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: And and so there were circumstances that presented themselves in Virginia that had happened in Michigan five or 10 or 10 years earlier.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: And it's like having the cheat cheat sheet to be like, hey guys, this is what we should try.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: And and so it wasn't that big of a challenge.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: But I also think where I was from a professional standpoint, I was more mature.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I I I I learned some things from my time in Michigan, and so I was able to uh apply them in Virginia.
57:11
SPEAKER_00: And then the funny thing is, then you go to Los Angeles, where the level of play is significantly higher than everywhere, everywhere else.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh you want to fix the US men's national team competitive standpoint, just recruit kids out of Southern California.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: You you you could honestly roll out a national team just out of kids from Southern California.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's like that's what the level of play is.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and the competition just between the clubs, it has to be massive.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: The player movement has to be insane.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's where the it's truly a wild, wild west.
57:44
SPEAKER_00: And and part of the reason is um there's I think that's part of the culture.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: People are always chasing whatever the next competitive thing is.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the other piece that's that's the challenge for the clubs is that because you know there's no winter season.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: Like we're trying, we're outdoors year round.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's so unfair.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: That's but that's why some of the players are so good.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: They're outdoors year round.
58:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
58:10
SPEAKER_00: And even when they want to go do futsal, they're doing futsal outdoors on outdoor courts.
58:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes they go inside because there are some like 15 rainy days of the year.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, exactly.
58:22
SPEAKER_00: Somehow we manage.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: And the so the level plays high, but because the season is nonstop, a lot of clubs are always operating on a season-to-season basis.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Let's get through the summer, let's get through the fall, let's get through the winter, let's get through the spring.
58:38
SPEAKER_00: And because they're doing that, there's never a a reflection moment.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: Hey, what do we need to do better?
58:44
SPEAKER_00: There's rarely a time we're going to do a strategic plan and lay out a 10-year vision and a five-year plan and a three-year plan and a one-year plan.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of clubs just kind of spin their wheels on their operation and their improvement.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: And so what that environment allows me to do is that, you know, I've gone from I went from TNT where we were making stuff up on the fly.
59:10
SPEAKER_00: Cause like we just like we started a club with one Derby started a team, a club with one team.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: I came in with four teams.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: By the time I graduated from Michigan State, we had 15 teams.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: And we just kind of like, like, hey, let's try this.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: Let's pick this up from Chicago Soccers.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Let's try this that we saw some other clubs do.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: And and just made it work.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: And then we went, then I went to Loudon Soccer, which was a behemoth, of being able to try to try to organize things there.
59:38
SPEAKER_00: So now with some of the things that are presenting themselves in with my club in Southern California, you know, I I have experience in other areas.
59:46
SPEAKER_00: It's just now being able to figure out how do we implement something new when there are no breaks.
59:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
59:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean the size of this country is fascinating to me.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_01: And when everybody says, oh well, pro rel will just fix everything, okay.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_01: But it it won't because we're such a melting pot.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_01: Every area is different.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_01: You just said that California could have its own national team and maybe just do uh adjust as well.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: Some somebody told me as I think it was Luis actually.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: He said that if you take the map of California or of the United States, and you put California where England is, he's like Maine, or maybe Florida, but Maine would be in Iran.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh yeah.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_01: Think about that, guys.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: It's it's that big, and people are like, well, ProReal will fix it and we'll have the zillion teams.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: It's like I had the vice president of Peoria City on, this is a USL2 five thousand dollars to rent a charter bus just to come up to Grand Blah Grand uh Blank and Flint.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like it costs a lot of money to travel.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: The the the whole idea of pro reg, uh pro relegation, um uh opening up the salary cap.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just I'm worried about that.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, you you look at you look at the history of the NASL, right?
1:01:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and and and the and the reason MLS exists in the structure that it is is because of how the NSL NASL grew and then blew up.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I think there are opportunities for MLS to open up some of their roles because they're now in their 30th year.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: They've got how how many of our 28 franchises, I guess.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: So so the they're in a different circumstance, but you can't take all the the uh training wheels off at once.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to do it measure.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: The the promotion relegation has an idea of creating competitiveness, but there's still other things that have to uh be sorted, like an MLS.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, you where the homegrown players that are coming up through the academy are not your center midfielders and strikers, they're all your outside backs and and and and and wingers, right?
1:02:35
SPEAKER_00: And and there there isn't a lot of incentive for these MLS clubs to start playing their young kids in these games.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I I I think there were the the value of a promotion and relegation would certainly be to help clubs invest in their time and energy in players, uh to create more competition.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_00: But from a business standpoint, you know, like how many how many USL teams pop up and then fizzle a a year or two later?
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, it is so expensive.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: It is very expensive.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: So the if you want to get in, I I I think it's quite uh in one sense, you know, this this post-mortem autopsy of the US men's national team flame out within the US within the World Cup, there's positives in it because there are a lot of people now talking about it.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_00: So that's that shows you the growth that soccer has in this country, and there's a lot of opinions about it.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, we're talking about it right now, of course.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_00: So, so that's positive, but I think there's also perspective that's lost.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: Soccer is a young sport in this country.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yep.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: It is not the most popular sport in this country.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_00: So the volume of players is not going to solve it.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: Because if volume population size was the most important thing, India and China would be winning World Cups.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_00: So so I think what you have to look at in is how do we make it's twofold is how do we make soccer the most popular sport in this country?
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: Because in all the other countries that are winning World Cups, soccer is the most popular.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_00: And then how do you make it affordable and accessible?
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's where all these um pathways that US soccer keeps talking about, getting into schools, getting into the grassroots level, that's all that's all great.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: But then the thing that keeps getting, I think, maybe not missed, but maybe it's overlooked, is then how are we teaching these players?
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: And and that's a big piece of it because it's not just how we're teaching, who's teaching them and what they're teaching.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_00: Like we we were talking a little bit about the lack of emphasis on technical precision that's being taught in in clubs.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and everyone likes to throw daggers at pay-to-play.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_00: And and and what pay-to-play has created is a um a focus on results, showcase tournaments, league access, course, uh, scores of games, right, um, versus player development and growth.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: And and so if I've got to win a game because I'm fearful that I'm gonna lose players for my team.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: And if I lose players for my team, I'm gonna be out of a job.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, I might compromise my values to win that game because I want to live my life.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I need to get paid.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of things that have to get fixed.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, you could say there's more kids playing soccer than ever before, right?
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: There's more exposure to the game than ever before.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: And I would say that the average soccer player today in 2026 is better than the average soccer player 20 years ago.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I I just got done coaching a 2017 boys team.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think about what I what I was doing when I was eight or nine years old.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: And then what you can do with these kids and what these kids are doing, it's night and day.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_00: So there has been growth, but the growth has come at the bottom.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: We have more our our average player is better, but we're not seeing the same growth at the tip, at the elite, right?
1:06:10
SPEAKER_00: And so somehow we have to get better coaching at the younger ages.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_00: And then there's also an element too where, you know, soccer in this country is a middle to upper upper class sport.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_00: And where, you know, when you think about the kids from Argentina and Uruguay, they're not exactly.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, outside of Messi, but um, they're not the middle class p kids coming through the system.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_00: These are the kids that soccer is their way out of the streets.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that that type of player is, you know, you get a Clem Densey every now and then, um, who, you know, like yes, he he grinded.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_01: And sacrificed and, you know, traveled all that way.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you'll get you'll get a player here or there.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_00: So I think there if I could help paint the picture of what needs to be done, it's it's creating access, it's also improving coaching, and then also being able to get those players who are often uh left behind or or not exposed, get them involved and and and get them part of the system.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: How do you well, first of all, in California, platform does not uh uh cannot matter, right?
1:07:25
SPEAKER_01: Like nobody cares.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: It it they do.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: They do, yeah.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_01: Is there a war between MLS next and and ECNL down there?
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a hierarchy, right?
1:07:35
SPEAKER_00: And and so with you're a elite level player, you the the goal is MLS Academy for for the boys, correct?
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: So not just the it's it's the MLS Academy, like the true, like the free, yeah.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: And then the next tier, depending on where you are, it could be for an MLS Next club or an ECNL club.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_00: And and just I think I think the veil is getting pulled a little bit on the MLS Next brand, because if you're not part of the homegrown system, you know, the Academy, it's still good, but it's not like you're not really part of MLS Next when you're in that academy system, like the academy lever.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's it's it's it's not, you know, that those truly elite level teams have separated themselves from from the other other groups, right?
1:08:28
SPEAKER_00: But it still carries MLS Next, it still has a name to it.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_00: So we lose some kids to some adjacent clubs that have MLS Next, even if our teams are better.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's it's there is a hierarchy.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_00: It's and it's on the boys' side, it's MLS Next, it's ECNL, then there might be, you know, N1, now it's now it's N1.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: And then in the local league, we have what's called flights.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_00: So there's flight one, flight two, flight three, flight floor, and flight four, which is the level of division your team is.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: And so there are pro row.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh they don't.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_00: So the clubs decide where the teams to be placed.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_00: And so oftentimes a club will be will advertise we've got a flight one team, and they put their team in flight one and they get their buttons handed to.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_00: Every game.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, or they or they have a good team, but they sandbag in flight three so they can win all their games.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: So there's no, there's there's not, but what SoCal does a good job of is at the end of the season, the fall season, they have a State Cup tournament.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so what but and they'll have multiple flights or divisions for State Cup, and they use the standings from that year to place you into one of those brackets.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: So if you got your butt handed to you in flight one, you're gonna be in the second flight for State Cup.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: If you whooped everyone in flight three, you're gonna be in the second flight for State Cup.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_00: So so they give you the option to select where you want to play, but they also have a points per game system that's gonna slot you there if you're trying to sandbag or overplay where you're supposed to be.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_01: What do you do to uh um cost control, I guess is the word?
1:10:10
SPEAKER_01: I like how do you like do you guys scholarship any players or do you just try to do it at the bottom dollar?
1:10:18
SPEAKER_00: So the the reality is with our club, because of our being a recreational program and a competitive program, right?
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: We have access to funds that give us more financial assistance because we have money coming in from the rec program, from camps and clinics, also from the competitive side.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: Whereas with some clubs that are only the competitive side and they're only relying on player dues, now you've got to run golf outings and sell sponsorships and and and do things to offset your cost in order to it, because otherwise, ultimately all you're doing is adding a surplus to everyone's club fees in order to provide financial assistance, right?
1:10:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's you know, we we are we are one of the more affordable clubs uh in in LA.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_00: Like I think now bear in mind we have our separate team fees for referees and tournaments, right?
1:11:11
SPEAKER_00: But our club fee for like an a for competitive teams is three thousand dollars a year.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_00: So that and compared to some other clubs that are charging 4,000 and 5,000, it's it's pretty pretty affordable.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: One thing that uh Donny Kuntz again, uh we were talking, and he he said uh what did he say?
1:11:33
SPEAKER_01: He was talking about coaches pay.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, if you're a team where you train twice and then maybe two games on the weekend, you should get paid something.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_01: But if you're a team that trains three times a day, uh th three times a week, you should get paid more.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_01: Or four, if we're if we're expected to provide more, we should be able to be compensated by that.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_01: And I thought I never really thought of it like that, but it's a good point.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: Most clubs will have a tiered system based on the level of team.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that's unique within Southern California is our high school seasons during the winter.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_00: So if you're coaching an ECNL team, yeah.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_00: So if you're coaching an ECNL team, you finish right around Thanksgiving, and then you don't pick act thing back up until mid to late February.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_01: That would be the dream.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_01: That'd be awesome.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think fall, high school and the fall sucks, and the high school in the spring sucks.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's it gives those coaches a nice bit of breathing room.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those coaches also then go coach high school, um, and or they just take a break.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_00: And then it's high-level high school coaches.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_00: So so the compensation is always going to be around the length of the season, the frequency of the teams, frequency of the touch points with the team, and then probably also some additional demands like what are you, how much off-field work are you doing, how far are you traveling?
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: Um and then I think the other piece of that is then you've got your your your base pricing, but then you also have to look at the quality of the coach, too.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_00: Because if you've got someone who is a very good coach with a resume, you might they they probably deserve to be compensated more than the coach who's fresh out of college coaching their first club team.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_01: Another thing that's really nice about where you are right now is that you don't have to travel that far.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_01: All your games can be in state, even if you're the ECNL boys.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we we're fortunate on the boys side that all of our conference games are in state in Southern California.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh we have one game in Las Vegas.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, one game.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_00: And and so, and even then that's not that's a 45-minute flight or a five-hour car ride.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's not it's five hours, yeah.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: Depending dependent on how fast you're driving, too.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and where and where you're stopping along the way.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_00: So the so it's it's it's not ideal, but it's better than say the Midwest, where you've got to go to Wisconsin or Illinois or wherever you have to play for away games.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_01: Western New York Flash in conference, they have to go to Tennessee.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_01: It's 11 hours.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_01: Another like thing is like, okay, if you're in Spain and you drive 11 hours, where could you be?
1:14:11
SPEAKER_00: In Czech Republic.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_00: No, so that that that piece is we're fortunate because there's so many good clubs that you don't have to travel very far.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, we like our farthest road trip is to San Diego, and and while yes, that might be a three-hour ride, three-hour car drive where we're coming from the valley.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, and then you throw in the traffic, that's not ideal, but it's manageable.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing this.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm happy always, you know.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_00: I happy we'll make this an annual event.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, yeah.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_01: Every single year.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully this just continues to grow.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_01: It grew by like 400 people.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_01: That's what that's what Tinny said.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_00: So well, you look at I felt the vibe was different this year in the sense that I think there were um there seemed to be more clubs and organizations represented.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_00: And you look at the quality of the presenters, yeah.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_00: Somehow I got to present.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, stop.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you look at the quality of the presenters, um, and I I there's definitely a need for uh like the and I say this like met uh like respectfully, because I'm uh I I I believe in the licensing process for coaches.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_00: But if you're only becoming a better coach through the licensing process, you're missing out on so many opportunities.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_00: And there's a gentleman here, you probably saw him working on a big big guy with a long beard.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_00: He's named Sean from uh I won't say which name of the club he's from, but from out of state.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_00: And he's here, was here last year, saw him again this year, cutch up, and he's like, I'm so disappointed.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm the only coach from my club who's here.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, we gotta make this an effort.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was talking to another club coach, he's like, Yeah, next year we're gonna just say this is your preseason coach education.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_00: You've got to come here for a day.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_00: That's brilliant.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_00: And and it's it's you know, for some reasons, people, whether it's hey, if you're if you've got a family vacation, by all means do your family vacation.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_00: But if you know that this is the weekend it's going to be every single year, plan around it and make it an effort because to have so many good coaches come in and be in your backyard, and then you don't make them uh make it out to come learn, right?
1:16:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's a shame.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_00: There's something wrong with you for not making that effort.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_00: I 100% agree.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, brother.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_00: Hey, appreciate being on here.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_00: You're going to see friends, right?
1:16:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's um I've got my brother's 50th birthday, so we're going downtown.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sounds good.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, brother.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_00: I hate soccer.