Latest / America Unfiltered With James P / Jeffrey Epstein x Steve Bannon Interview | America Unfiltered #203

Transcript

Jeffrey Epstein x Steve Bannon Interview | America Unfiltered #203 · America Unfiltered With James P

• 0:01
  America, we are back, baby. Welcome to another episode of
• 0:04
  American Filter. We got a great show for you guys
• 0:06
  today. Good to be back here on Monday.
• 0:08
  Good to be back with you guys on the show.
• 0:11
  We had a lot of crazy shit happened over the weekend.
• 0:14
  I was originally planning to possibly do a show over the
• 0:17
  weekend. Didn't really end up working out
• 0:19
  because of my schedule. So we're back today.
• 0:22
  We have a busy week. We're going to be going through
• 0:24
  the files this week, all the Epstein files, but today I want
• 0:29
  to start off with something that's going around that was in
• 0:32
  the files and it is a video of Bannon doing an interview with
• 0:36
  Jeffrey Epstein. It's about two hours and you
• 0:40
  really get a good look at how Epstein's mind works in this.
• 0:44
  I'm very excited to watch the full thing.
• 0:46
  Haven't watched the full thing yet.
• 0:48
  I've only watched clips so far, so I'm excited to watch the full
• 0:51
  thing with you guys and then on tomorrow's show and possibly
• 0:54
  we'll do a Part 2 to it on Wednesday, We will be going
• 0:58
  through every single Epstein file that got released, over 3
• 1:04
  million of them. I remember when we did the last
• 1:07
  one, I think there was like a few 100,000 files.
• 1:10
  We went through them all. It took me about 5 hours to do
• 1:13
  live on the show and by the end I was trying not to fucking kill
• 1:16
  myself. So we'll see how it goes.
• 1:19
  We'll see how it goes. Hopefully I don't end up fucking
• 1:21
  offing myself on that stream, but it'll be fun.
• 1:24
  We're going to look through all the files.
• 1:25
  We're going to see what we can find.
• 1:26
  I've already seen some of the highlights.
• 1:28
  I don't know if you want to call them highlight.
• 1:30
  I don't know what you want to call them, but I've already seen
• 1:32
  some of the bigger picture items in the files.
• 1:35
  And I will say, well, there is a lot of really interesting stuff.
• 1:38
  Some really, some pretty crazy things, some pretty out there
• 1:42
  things. There's accusations, there's
• 1:44
  emails, there's videos there. There's nothing that is
• 1:50
  specifically linking any single person to a bunch of crimes,
• 1:55
  which I kind of expected. And I, I talked about this the
• 1:59
  last time we went over the files.
• 2:01
  I said most likely what has happened so far is over the
• 2:06
  course period that Donald Trump has been in office, they've been
• 2:09
  scrubbing these files. They've not only been scrubbing
• 2:12
  them in DC, but they've been scrubbing them over in Tel Aviv
• 2:15
  as well. Most likely all the files that
• 2:17
  are very damning, all the files that are, you know, all the
• 2:22
  files that are going to link people to real criminal
• 2:24
  behaviour, prosecutable behaviour that's probably
• 2:27
  destroyed most likely. But we're going to go through
• 2:31
  it. We're going to see what we find.
• 2:32
  We're still going to be on the case for this.
• 2:33
  We have been talking about Epstein for I mean over a year
• 2:36
  now on this show. Pretty much since day one on
• 2:39
  this show, we've been talking about Epstein.
• 2:41
  So I'm glad we are actually getting some files, even if it's
• 2:44
  not the full scope of things, even if we're only getting some
• 2:48
  of the files. We got 3,000,000 released.
• 2:50
  There's over 6,000,000 total. Crazy.
• 2:53
  It always, it always comes back to 6,000,000.
• 2:55
  Kind of wild, but we're going to go through all the files this
• 2:58
  week. Going to be a good show.
• 3:00
  Hopefully you guys had a good weekend.
• 3:01
  We're also going to do all the comments at the end of the show
• 3:03
  today. I had a collaboration on Friday
• 3:07
  with Isaiah Asher. Hope you guys were able to check
• 3:09
  it out. So we didn't go through the
• 3:10
  comments on Friday. I also have another debate this
• 3:14
  Friday as well, so that will be our Friday show.
• 3:16
  This week I am going to be doing another debate with MU Points,
• 3:20
  which is the same people I did the debate with last time.
• 3:23
  That is where they take two people who were on Jubilee
• 3:25
  before and they put them against each other in a debate.
• 3:27
  So I will be over this week. We'll do our scouting report on
• 3:31
  this dumb bitch that we're going to be debating against again.
• 3:34
  They keep putting me against women.
• 3:35
  It's like they just want, they want me to crush these women's
• 3:38
  hopes and dreams. But someone's got to do it.
• 3:42
  So I volunteers tribute. I will crush this woman's hopes
• 3:45
  and dreams and all aspirations that she has of working in
• 3:48
  politics. I'll show her that she's just
• 3:50
  another dumb bitch. I'll explain to her why we need
• 3:53
  to repeal the 19th and why Ice is good and she's just retarded.
• 3:58
  Don't worry guys, I volunteers tribute.
• 4:00
  I'll do it myself. Don't don't worry.
• 4:01
  Don't worry, I'll. I'll fall on that sword for us,
• 4:05
  but it's going to be exciting. Excited for that debate.
• 4:07
  I love debating, as a lot of you guys know, I do it very often.
• 4:12
  Let's see anything else happened this weekend before we hop right
• 4:14
  into the video. Not really that I could think
• 4:20
  of. I don't know.
• 4:21
  Not really that I can think of. Not a ton has happened.
• 4:24
  I thought there was a possibility we bomb Iran this
• 4:26
  weekend. Didn't happen.
• 4:27
  I'm guessing it's going to happen in the next few weeks.
• 4:29
  Most likely. That's what it's seeming like
• 4:32
  from social media, Seem like from what we're hearing in DC
• 4:36
  around the Pentagon, but maybe, maybe not.
• 4:39
  We'll see. I'll keep you guys updated on
• 4:41
  that throughout the week, on what I find, what I'm thinking,
• 4:44
  what everything's telling me. Yeah, it's been a, besides the
• 4:49
  Epstein stuff, slower weekend. I've seen a lot of people who
• 4:52
  are out here and they're like, every politician needs to be,
• 4:56
  you know, we need to deal with them this way.
• 4:58
  We need to deal with them that way.
• 4:59
  I was going to use specific violent phrasing, but I don't
• 5:03
  want the AI moderation to pick that up and be like, yo, what
• 5:06
  the fuck is he saying? But I see all these people
• 5:09
  saying this and I understand the anger.
• 5:10
  I understand the I understand the feeling of you live in a
• 5:16
  country, you pay taxes and it's very clear that your government
• 5:20
  has been compromised. But we need to actually get some
• 5:24
  real information. We need real information.
• 5:26
  And yes, we should hold everybody accountable.
• 5:29
  But at the same time, right now, what we need is we need the
• 5:32
  Justice Department, we need the FBI, we need all these different
• 5:36
  agencies that we have at our disposal to be investigating
• 5:39
  these files. The fact that they like release
• 5:41
  them to the public, they're like, OK, citizen journalist, do
• 5:44
  with them whatever the fuck you want.
• 5:45
  Like, OK, I'm glad we get to see the files.
• 5:47
  But at the same time, I'm not, I'm not happy that we have a
• 5:51
  Justice Department who's not doing anything.
• 5:53
  Like why aren't they investigating these files?
• 5:55
  Why aren't they tracking down these different leads?
• 5:57
  Why is it up to the people on X to do this?
• 6:01
  You know, I'll do it. I don't have a problem doing it.
• 6:04
  But that's one of my biggest complaints.
• 6:07
  You know, we have a lot of complaints about the Trump
• 6:09
  administration, the way they've handled this entire thing.
• 6:12
  I mean, remember when Trump said, guys, there is no files?
• 6:15
  There are no files? Pam Bondi was like, I have them
• 6:18
  on my desk and they're like, there are no files.
• 6:20
  And then cash Patel's like, yeah, they really don't exist.
• 6:22
  Now there's like, guys, we have 6,000,000 files, sounds like 271
• 6:28
  that like, how does it always come back to 6,000,000?
• 6:31
  I don't get it. How does it always find its way
• 6:33
  back to 6,000,000? Absolutely insane.
• 6:36
  But it's just crazy. Guys.
• 6:38
  If you're still talking about Epstein, I don't even want your
• 6:40
  support. The files, they don't even
• 6:41
  exist. It's a Democrat hoax.
• 6:44
  OK, but there's 6 million of them, apparently 6,000,000 files
• 6:49
  and we've only gotten somewhere under 4 million.
• 6:52
  I know they just released 3,000,000.
• 6:55
  I don't know how many we got in the first set of files.
• 6:58
  I I would say a few 100,000 maybe?
• 7:00
  It's hard to understand like what counts as a file though.
• 7:04
  I know it sounds dumb but like when there's a page and it has
• 7:08
  like 40 different things on it, are those all individual files?
• 7:12
  Is the each Page 1 file? I would like some clarity on
• 7:16
  that as well. I think there's a lot of things
• 7:18
  that the government has not been transparent about that they talk
• 7:20
  about. We're the most transparent
• 7:22
  administration of all time. We have live streams going on in
• 7:24
  our cabinet meetings. It's like, okay, don't act like
• 7:27
  those are your only meetings. You definitely have meetings
• 7:29
  without the fucking cameras. Not that I'm really ridiculing
• 7:32
  you for that. I mean, that's whatever, but
• 7:34
  it's like, don't say you're transparent and then you're
• 7:36
  like, what? Epstein files?
• 7:38
  We're not going to release all the JFK files.
• 7:40
  That'd be bad for Israel. We're not going to release the
• 7:43
  MLK files. What are you talking about?
• 7:45
  We never said that 9/11 files never existed.
• 7:48
  Like that's what our government's acting like right
• 7:50
  now. And they're like, no, but it's
• 7:51
  super transparent. Everything's so transparent.
• 7:54
  It's like, I don't know, like at a point, I'm sick of getting
• 7:59
  raped by this government. I'm sick of being lied to by
• 8:01
  this government. I'm sick of being treated like
• 8:03
  gallium trash, like we are not subhuman.
• 8:06
  We, we, we deserve a little bit of respect, but they don't want
• 8:10
  to give it to us. But I want to check out this
• 8:13
  interview. I'm excited to check out this
• 8:14
  interview today. Like I said, it's about two
• 8:17
  hours depending on how. I haven't really watched the
• 8:20
  full thing, so I don't know what we're going to do yet with it.
• 8:23
  Depending on how fast or slow they talk, maybe we'll put in
• 8:25
  1.25 X speed if they're talking really slow.
• 8:28
  We'll see. But this is with Steve Bannon
• 8:31
  and Jeffrey Epstein, so holy shit, guys, buckle and this will
• 8:34
  be a good one. Let me get it pulled up for us.
• 8:37
  Before we start everything, I want to remind you guys, like
• 8:39
  smash the follow button, leave a comment, let me know what you
• 8:41
  think about the show. We'll read all the comments at
• 8:43
  the end of each show. Rate the show 5 stars on
• 8:45
  Spotify. Follow me on X, follow me on
• 8:47
  Instagram. Join my Telegram channel by
• 8:49
  scanning that code. Excuse me scanning that code up
• 8:53
  in the corner. He'll stay updated on all things
• 8:55
  America unfiltered. By the end of this week or the
• 8:58
  start of next week, we will have some merch dropping.
• 9:01
  We will also have a group chat. Dropping the group chat will do
• 9:05
  it probably through subscriptions on Spotify.
• 9:07
  Most likely if you subscribe on Spotify, you'll get the link to
• 9:11
  the group chat. If you want to subscribe, I'll
• 9:14
  fucking take the link away. I don't give a shit.
• 9:17
  No, but I'm excited. It'll be cool.
• 9:18
  That way we can interact more people who have questions beyond
• 9:21
  stuff they want to put in the comments.
• 9:23
  You could join it. That way I can make a little
• 9:25
  fucking money, you know, It is a free show, guys, come on, free
• 9:29
  show. But I'm doing it for the people.
• 9:31
  I'm doing it for you guys. So let's get right into this.
• 9:33
  Let's do this reaction. Let's watch this interview.
• 9:36
  Getting it pulled up right here. Let me make sure I have the
• 9:40
  audio fully set up and here we go guys.
• 9:45
  I'm very excited to see this. This is unseen footage.
• 9:48
  Was just releasing the Epstein files of Steve Bannon and
• 9:51
  Jeffrey Epstein having a 2 hour long conversation.
• 9:55
  Before we get into the deep stuff, let's just talk let's
• 9:57
  give some basics or some things I want to do inquire from the
• 10:00
  others. Walk me through the Santa Fe
• 10:02
  Institute. What what was it about the time
• 10:06
  at the math? And this was in the late 90s.
• 10:09
  So they're not going to hear me on this part right?
• 10:12
  And they're both ways. It will not be on the video, but
• 10:14
  we do have you recorded fine. Remember when you're answering
• 10:18
  the on these questions, I'm not in the shot and they're never
• 10:22
  going to hear my voice. So a little bit you got to
• 10:23
  repeat the in your answer, you got to repeat what my question
• 10:27
  was Santa Fe Institute. Why, when you're at the top of
• 10:34
  your game on Wall Street, do you decide to finance which was at
• 10:37
  the time, or endow or become the donor sponsor, however you want
• 10:40
  to say it, for what was considered the most cutting edge
• 10:46
  group of mathematicians in the world?
• 10:48
  Action. So Santa Fe Institute in the
• 10:52
  late 80s, early 90s, I was interested as I was on the board
• 10:55
  of Rockefeller. So that starts Rockefeller.
• 10:58
  It's university formed by John D Rockefeller to sort of give back
• 11:03
  to the community East side of Manhattan, except it was old.
• 11:08
  It was sort of old fashioned. They were talking about
• 11:11
  medicine, and medicine by itself was again subject to the ideas
• 11:16
  of science. They were trying to find use
• 11:18
  science to find cures for disease.
• 11:22
  And I said no, we need to do something different.
• 11:25
  We need to start interdisciplinary work in MOST.
• 11:30
  How did a schmuck like you get on the board of Rockefeller?
• 11:33
  What year was that? Mock like you I.
• 11:35
  Think 89 and 90. One so that's one of the most
• 11:37
  prestigious research places in the world, correct?
• 11:40
  Yes. OK, how did a guy like you get
• 11:43
  on the board of Rock a blue blood, internationally known,
• 11:47
  internationally known hard research Nobel Prize winners all
• 11:51
  over the place? How do they pick a guy like you?
• 11:55
  A traitor from or basically some guy from Bear Stearns?
• 12:00
  Good question. SO I was asked to be on the
• 12:02
  board of Rockefeller and I think it was I was on the board of
• 12:05
  Rockefeller. There was a money manager who
• 12:08
  said Rockefeller needs someone with financial expertise because
• 12:13
  the university is growing and there's lots of new things.
• 12:17
  You have to, again, we go back to the the original discussion.
• 12:20
  The last time in the up until the mid 80s or sort of early mid
• 12:25
  70s, the most important thing was your name.
• 12:28
  If you were a Rockefeller, you already were considered to be
• 12:30
  brilliant. If you were a head of General
• 12:32
  Motors, it was your reputation, it was who you knew, who your
• 12:36
  family was, what was your character.
• 12:40
  And then in the mid 70s, basically, if you remember, you
• 12:44
  probably had a calculator. It was very advanced in those
• 12:48
  days to have a Texas Instrument calculator where it could, by
• 12:51
  putting in the numbers, it would multiply for you to do square
• 12:54
  roots. And that was the first.
• 12:56
  And everyone who had a calculator was already advanced
• 12:59
  on Wall Street, a simple, almost like your accountant.
• 13:05
  The most important parts of business were really now going
• 13:09
  to calculations. So it's not only mathematics,
• 13:12
  but it's things that could be calculated.
• 13:15
  Reputation couldn't be calculated.
• 13:17
  I could give you you a 10 on a reputation scale at 8:00.
• 13:20
  What does it mean to have a measurement of your reputation?
• 13:24
  We'll get to that later. But people, places like
• 13:27
  Rockefeller needed someone to say, look, we are entering a
• 13:30
  different world where numbers and the numbers of companies,
• 13:34
  portfolio management was going to be balanced.
• 13:37
  It was going to be statistical. Jeffrey, could you come on the
• 13:39
  board, potentially sit on the Finance Committee, Nancy
• 13:45
  Kissinger and a bunch of other people.
• 13:47
  And David Rockefeller and I got along very well.
• 13:51
  He was just, he was this unbelievable human being,
• 13:56
  respectful to everyone. He introduced his driver as his
• 14:00
  colleague, not his driver. He would never say this is my
• 14:03
  driver. He says it's my colleague.
• 14:05
  And David started to explain to me world politics.
• 14:11
  So David would say, Jeffrey, money is going to be sort of the
• 14:15
  most important things. People don't understand money.
• 14:17
  You seem to have this knack for money.
• 14:21
  I said to David, Tell me about your life.
• 14:23
  What was the worst and the best part of your life?
• 14:26
  So David said when I grew up, everyone knew I was a
• 14:31
  Rockefeller. They didn't know that my father
• 14:34
  told me he would not leave me a dime, no money.
• 14:38
  But every time we went out to eat, me and my 5 friends in
• 14:41
  school, they would leave me the bill.
• 14:43
  They would expect me to pick up the check because I was a
• 14:46
  Rockefeller. And he said, I was chairman of
• 14:48
  Chase Bank. And he said, I remember like it
• 14:51
  was yesterday one of the headlines in Time magazine and
• 14:54
  said, David, please fire yourself.
• 14:59
  So he thought that there was a world that existed in that would
• 15:05
  be a combination of both politics and business and
• 15:11
  leadership. What do I mean?
• 15:13
  He formed something called the Trilateral Commission.
• 15:18
  The Trilateral Commission is some spooky stuff.
• 15:20
  People said it was some of the people that the Illuminati.
• 15:23
  There's some mystery about IT. People that ran the world.
• 15:28
  It was politicians. But David said most countries,
• 15:33
  the politicians get elected for four years or eight years,
• 15:37
  separate from the royal families in England or in the Middle
• 15:40
  East. Someone's there for four years
• 15:42
  and then they're not there anymore.
• 15:44
  The most important people to have stability and consistency
• 15:49
  would be businessmen. So he formed this trilateral
• 15:52
  Commission of businessmen and politicians from three major
• 15:57
  continents. So it was the North Americans,
• 16:01
  the Europeans and the Asians. So he said to me, would you like
• 16:05
  to be on the trilateral Commission?
• 16:07
  No, I was 30 years old, 32 years old.
• 16:12
  He's like, great. And he said, well, you have to
• 16:15
  fill out this application, so they have your bio.
• 16:20
  And I looked at the list of people and it was Bill Clinton,
• 16:24
  former president of the United States, Paul Volcker, every
• 16:30
  great leader in America, the Asians, the Japanese, and with a
• 16:35
  very long description of their history.
• 16:39
  And they asked me to fill in what I would like to have
• 16:42
  written and I wrote Jeffrey Epstein comma.
• 16:45
  Just a good kid I thought was funny.
• 16:48
  Nobody else did. That is kind of funny.
• 16:53
  Was Epstein funny? I mean, he had to be right.
• 16:57
  He had to be a little funny. I mean, he was friends with all
• 17:00
  these people. You would think there is some
• 17:02
  charm to the guy. Like even if he objectively is
• 17:05
  really evil and did some bad things, we most likely probably
• 17:11
  had a lot of charm to him. Wow that's crazy.
• 17:15
  Jeffrey Epstein just a good kid. That's.
• 17:19
  So answer to your question, at that time I recognized around
• 17:22
  the world that monies and currencies.
• 17:25
  He had aura. Were not really well understood,
• 17:28
  but again it was only numbers. So numbers and I'll get to the
• 17:35
  fact that it was bad thinking. It's numbers are very good.
• 17:40
  Or most people or most people that you meet even on trilateral
• 17:42
  Commission, when you meet most people, do you find most leaders
• 17:46
  financially illiterate? Economically illiterate.
• 17:52
  Most, again, most political leaders don't come out of a
• 17:55
  background of finance. Most political leaders come out
• 17:59
  of a background of being popular.
• 18:01
  So it's in some of the countries, in certainly African
• 18:04
  countries, for example, they might have been a military
• 18:06
  person, they were a general. In some of the African countries
• 18:09
  they might have been a disc jockey or in our country they
• 18:13
  would have been an actor. The knowledge of money isn't
• 18:17
  they don't have expertise, they have no degrees in finance.
• 18:20
  They really what, and this is one of the major problems, their
• 18:25
  expertise, if they have any financial knowledge is of their
• 18:29
  own checking account or bank account and filling in their own
• 18:32
  taxes. So many world leaders who don't
• 18:37
  really have a financial underpinning make fundamental
• 18:40
  errors when it comes to money on a country or institutional
• 18:45
  level. Let me give you an example.
• 18:49
  If you, Mr. Bannon, if I said your assets increased last year,
• 18:56
  you'd say that's, well, that sounds pretty good.
• 19:00
  And I said, what does that mean to you?
• 19:03
  You'd say, well, I have more money.
• 19:04
  I guess I'm I'm wealthier. I'd say yes.
• 19:09
  And if you had, if your debt increased, would you would you
• 19:15
  feel wealthier or poorer? You'd say, well, that I don't
• 19:18
  want to have increased debt. I don't like the idea of that
• 19:20
  sound increased debt. Now that and world leaders
• 19:26
  understand when their assets go up, they feel better.
• 19:31
  However, institutions like banks, things that people don't
• 19:35
  really understand, are financial underpinnings of banks.
• 19:42
  When I say your bank, Mr. Bannon, you have the Bannon
• 19:46
  bank. You doubled your assets.
• 19:49
  Sounds good, but what does it really mean?
• 19:52
  It means people owe you more money.
• 19:56
  You don't have any money. More money?
• 19:59
  What? Yeah, A bank's assets are how
• 20:05
  much it is owed by other people. That's crazy.
• 20:11
  So if the bank, when it goes from a $2 billion of assets to
• 20:15
  10 billion, it means people owe it an additional $8 billion and
• 20:21
  they put their assets have gone up.
• 20:25
  So the terminology of assets and liabilities is different for
• 20:29
  banks. It's not natural.
• 20:30
  And what most people, and you ask questions about world
• 20:33
  leaders is many people. I think your old boss Mercer
• 20:38
  understood there's a fundamental part of money which is called
• 20:42
  fractionalized banking. And fractionalized banking is
• 20:46
  something that finance people understand and the people on the
• 20:50
  street. And when I say people on the
• 20:51
  street, that's where I was when I started on Wall Street, would
• 20:54
  find it impossible to believe impossible.
• 21:00
  Why Bannon Bank, I give you $1.00, just one single dollar in
• 21:11
  our system of banking. I would say, OK, Steve, I gave
• 21:15
  you a dollar. How much could you lend out to
• 21:17
  your friends? And your natural reaction would
• 21:21
  be probably something less than a dollar because I want to keep
• 21:23
  something in my pocket. The way our system works is if
• 21:28
  I, you as a bank, are holding my dollar, you can lend out an
• 21:34
  additional 8 or $9. No, it's impossible.
• 21:39
  I only have a dollar. Jeffrey.
• 21:42
  We have something called fractionalized reserves, which
• 21:44
  is if you have one, you can lend out nine.
• 21:47
  That's the way our system works. And so not only do world leaders
• 21:51
  not understand banking, but the man on the street, my father
• 21:54
  worked in the park Department, it it would be beyond his
• 21:57
  imagination. Is he just basically saying our
• 21:59
  entire money system just pulled like we have Monopoly money
• 22:02
  basically? It's not even real.
• 22:04
  Like, that's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing.
• 22:06
  All our dollars are fucking fake.
• 22:09
  Someone goes. He sounds so Jewish.
• 22:11
  Yeah, he does. He he definitely sounds real.
• 22:14
  I mean, we know he's Jewish, but like he really sounds it too.
• 22:18
  He looks at this up close with that fucking huge honker,
• 22:21
  6,000,000% dude. This guy did have war though.
• 22:26
  I mean, like, you got to give it to him.
• 22:28
  He is smart. I mean, like when you think
• 22:31
  about like this is the guy you want managing your money?
• 22:36
  Like this is the guy you want managing your money.
• 22:38
  I don't even blame people for giving money to this guy at a
• 22:40
  point. It's like this guy knows shit.
• 22:43
  This is great. I'm actually really, I was
• 22:46
  excited to watch this. Now I'm really excited to watch
• 22:48
  the full thing. Like I feel like I'm, I feel
• 22:50
  like I'm taking a finance course right now.
• 22:51
  I feel like, feel like this is better than Harvard economics
• 22:59
  cause the Jew fake money don't want to run on the bank.
• 23:02
  Dude. I'm excited to see this full
• 23:03
  thing. I feel like he's going to really
• 23:05
  spill some inside baseball about how finance is fucking us.
• 23:09
  It's crazy. That people could lend out more
• 23:13
  money than they actually had in their.
• 23:14
  Let's see, should we put it on 1.25 X?
• 23:17
  Next question. Wait, how?
• 23:18
  How did this in in, in understanding that when you get
• 23:22
  on something like the trilateral Commission, you're on the board
• 23:24
  at Rockefeller, which is the most Advanced Research.
• 23:26
  You get brought into the to the trilateral, which is the elite
• 23:29
  of the elite. How since you're only at that
• 23:31
  time 30 something 8 years from teaching at Dalton, right?
• 23:36
  Your adult 10 years of teaching at Dalton.
• 23:39
  Walk us through. I mean, he put us in the room.
• 23:41
  Walk me through. Exactly.
• 23:42
  He also got hired at Dalton by Donald Barr's father.
• 23:48
  What it felt like, what it felt like being on the board at
• 23:50
  Rockefeller. We got these Nobel laureates,
• 23:51
  and you're sitting there making decisions and you start to meet
• 23:54
  these people at Rockefeller and you start to meet these people.
• 23:56
  That trilateral Commission, what would it feel like?
• 23:59
  That's a great question. So what did it feel?
• 24:01
  Like in the business of asking. What did it feel like meeting
• 24:03
  some of these people like Kissinger, Rockefeller, and
• 24:06
  those are two extraordinary people.
• 24:08
  But in general, I think the question, the people on Wall
• 24:11
  Street, I tell the story the first day, one of the first days
• 24:15
  when I was in Wall Street, someone said to me, would you
• 24:16
  like to buy ATV? And I could, I was looking in
• 24:21
  the brochure like I couldn't figure out what stock had a
• 24:23
  symbol of ATV. And when I finally said, well, I
• 24:28
  can't find it. And they said, what the what's
• 24:30
  the matter with you? Do you want to buy ATV?
• 24:33
  Which is he? He was selling hot televisions,
• 24:36
  stolen televisions from the floor of the American Stock
• 24:37
  Exchange, referred to in common policies.
• 24:40
  The televisions fell off the truck.
• 24:42
  That's so I knew what that phrase meant from Coney Island.
• 24:45
  But what I found was most people would be in business, in normal
• 24:50
  life or in the world. Leaders don't really understand
• 24:53
  money. It is something they think
• 24:56
  about. They have a sense of what it is.
• 24:59
  They certainly want more of it, but they also make statements
• 25:02
  like we want more money, but we don't want more debt, which just
• 25:04
  shows a misunderstanding of what money at its core really is.
• 25:07
  So they don't. Most people don't.
• 25:09
  They want to make it, they want to save it.
• 25:11
  But to understand it intimately is is not a normal character.
• 25:15
  At the at the the money. 'S fake.
• 25:19
  What's happening says it's still gone.
• 25:24
  You you join the trilateral and we'll be able to show that we'll
• 25:27
  pull down the the chart of where your name was, but just give me
• 25:30
  roughly when it was I. Think it could be 90, I don't
• 25:32
  remember. Let's say early 90s, yes.
• 25:33
  When you got the Trilateral Commission and had the first,
• 25:36
  where was the? Do you remember the first
• 25:37
  meeting once? It was in Tokyo.
• 25:38
  In Tokyo, in what hotel I. Would like to say the Hilton.
• 25:41
  That's probably not. And it's a three day, four day.
• 25:45
  Three day event and walk me through the whole thing.
• 25:46
  Starts with a dinner. Take me.
• 25:48
  Just walk me through it. It was boring.
• 25:50
  I can't I. You could possibly think it.
• 25:51
  Was boring. It was boring.
• 25:52
  You had any stars in your eyes? No.
• 25:54
  Do you fly over privately? Yes, but it wasn't my point.
• 25:57
  So it didn't count? No, you, you fly over.
• 26:02
  Yes, and and it was who? Who were the first?
• 26:04
  Like when you first met those leaders, you had to be wild.
• 26:06
  No. You're 10 years out of Coney
• 26:08
  Island. No, I'm not wowed by people of
• 26:10
  position. I'm wowed by people of great
• 26:12
  ideas and I don't care if it's the bus driver, I don't care if
• 26:15
  it's the student they had who has teeth strict coming out, but
• 26:18
  these guys have. To have great ideas of the
• 26:19
  leaders of the three great continents of the world, North
• 26:21
  America, Europe and the and and Japan.
• 26:23
  No. Many of these world leaders
• 26:24
  become world leaders because they're popular and they were
• 26:27
  able to get votes or they were able to convince people to vote
• 26:29
  for them. I learned later many of them
• 26:33
  were just good at what they did in terms of politics.
• 26:37
  Remember, world leaders are politicians in general.
• 26:39
  They're not scientists, they're not intellectuals.
• 26:41
  They're not great thinkers. They're great politicians.
• 26:44
  At the at the first traditional Commission meeting that you
• 26:46
  remember in Tokyo in sometime in the early 90s, do you remember
• 26:49
  what were the big issues of the day that they were talking about
• 26:51
  and what did you think about it? Yeah.
• 26:53
  In fact, it was funny because they were talking about
• 26:55
  inflation and they were worried that what would happen, how do
• 26:58
  you control inflation? And I, as a mathematician, I
• 27:02
  didn't understand the concept. I don't understand the concept
• 27:04
  today. How's that possible?
• 27:07
  Well, when you talk about most things to do with money, they
• 27:11
  really money is meant to be local.
• 27:12
  It's U.S. dollars then I understand what it means if
• 27:15
  inflation it means my dollar today inflates and it doesn't
• 27:20
  buy as much as it did a couple of years ago.
• 27:24
  The price the prices go up. I don't have it seems that
• 27:28
  everything is great, but in fact my dollar is shrinking in value.
• 27:30
  If if you. And you're the financial genius
• 27:33
  here. I'm just A.
• 27:34
  I'm just a lowly M and a guy. If you let me, if you let me
• 27:38
  finish the thought, go ahead. So if if you're in America, you
• 27:41
  start to you can feel inflation, your salary's gone up, but you
• 27:43
  don't buy as can't buy the same car.
• 27:45
  In fact, it starts to feel weird because the.
• 27:46
  Value. That's why I want to answer the
• 27:48
  question that this is. My point?
• 27:49
  The people. Who live and breathe this?
• 27:50
  The central banks have been haunted by the specter of
• 27:53
  inflation since the late 70s. Yes.
• 27:56
  First off, tell our artists, how did that happen?
• 27:58
  The 2 great The two great financial events in the 20th
• 28:03
  century. I'm not going to get to the 21st
• 28:05
  where the the the the The great inflation in Europe after World
• 28:09
  War One the the Great Depression, the hyperinflation
• 28:12
  in Germany that led to the rise of Hitler, and then this
• 28:14
  inflation in the mid 70s. What was before we go to explain
• 28:17
  the information, why is why is the specter of inflation always
• 28:20
  the central thing in central bankers minds?
• 28:23
  Because it goes back to this, the first concept I said, the
• 28:25
  weird concept of fractionalized reserves.
• 28:28
  The system is not well understood and will most systems
• 28:32
  in fact are not well understood. We don't know how I digest this
• 28:34
  stuff. This is impossible.
• 28:36
  The most the most the world banking system, the world
• 28:38
  currency system, the world monetary system has to be so
• 28:41
  well. And this guy shut the fuck up
• 28:43
  and let Epstein answer a fucking question.
• 28:45
  Like Epstein is like spitting knowledge here and spitting game
• 28:49
  honestly. And like, I feel like this is
• 28:52
  better education than I've gotten.
• 28:55
  And it's like Steve Bannon just keeps interrupting him.
• 28:57
  He's like, can I finish my fucking thought?
• 28:59
  It's like, yeah, let Epstein finish.
• 29:01
  This guy is literally giving U.S. financial cheat codes.
• 29:05
  And what the fuck are we? Like why is Bannon interrupting
• 29:08
  every fucking thing? Stood by the Greenspans of the
• 29:13
  world and the Bernanke's of the world and the and the and you
• 29:16
  right the the, the currency traders, the, the, the, the, the
• 29:20
  guys making billion dollar bets every day.
• 29:22
  The the legendary guy on Wall Street in the late 90s Vasalin
• 29:25
  brothers. Blue Ranieri.
• 29:27
  The guy that wrote the money, Michael.
• 29:29
  Willis. Margaret Polka?
• 29:31
  Yeah, Lark. Who's that about that great
• 29:32
  trader? Blue Ranieri.
• 29:33
  No one. The guy that ran the desk that
• 29:35
  eventually ran the the the hedge fund that went long term
• 29:38
  capital. Yes, I don't remember.
• 29:40
  Who's the guy I want? To say I don't remember, I'm
• 29:42
  sorry. Luminary is big, but those guys
• 29:43
  have to understand the system perfectly.
• 29:45
  No, they don't understand the system.
• 29:46
  They understand the local part of the system.
• 29:48
  So for example, why is not only inflation, Most bankers are
• 29:51
  terrified to if the public understood that the bank really
• 29:54
  doesn't have their money at any one time.
• 29:58
  There's it's one of the things during the depression they were
• 29:59
  runs on the bank. The reason the banks don't keep
• 30:02
  much money in the actual bank as they assume that not everyone's
• 30:05
  going to want their money on the same day.
• 30:07
  So that's not really the fear of inflation.
• 30:08
  The fear is a run on the bank. Everybody wants to take out
• 30:11
  something that doesn't really exist.
• 30:14
  Inflation is tied to interest rates.
• 30:17
  It's a more complicated example, but when your money doesn't buy
• 30:21
  the same amount of product this year than it did last year, if
• 30:23
  it buys less and less like it happened, you use the term
• 30:25
  hyperinflation. There's certain countries that
• 30:28
  are not managed well, like in Africa at the current, A $100
• 30:32
  billion bill, $100 billion bill in Zimbabwe is worth 1 American
• 30:38
  cent. That's the perfect example of
• 30:42
  hyperinflation. It goes up, it double s every
• 30:45
  day. So people are afraid that their
• 30:47
  value in the system starts to break down.
• 30:50
  But so if I said to you, does your doctor understand your body
• 30:54
  system, you'd say, well, I hope so because I want to keep me
• 30:58
  healthy. But you could have a kidney
• 31:01
  infection. You could have a heart attack,
• 31:02
  you could have a broken knee. There's lots of pieces of the
• 31:04
  system. And in fact, when you ask the
• 31:06
  question, very few doctors understand your entire body.
• 31:09
  There's a specialist for your knee.
• 31:10
  There's a specialist for your polynloidal cyst.
• 31:12
  There's a specialist for your head.
• 31:13
  And now we have specialists in different areas.
• 31:15
  So I'm going to get to your first question about Santa Fe
• 31:18
  Institute. The world economy and your body
• 31:22
  are both comprised of little systems interacting with each
• 31:25
  other and making one big. You, you, you expect this is
• 31:29
  what's stunning for all the little guys out there, the
• 31:31
  populist movement, the little guys that that haven't had a pay
• 31:33
  raise in in 30 years. They think that these elites,
• 31:37
  you know, have everything. The guys in the room making the
• 31:39
  decisions that the the party of Davos guys, you're sitting there
• 31:42
  and you don't think many people today really understand the
• 31:45
  complexity and really all the moving pieces and how they
• 31:48
  interconnected the world's financial system.
• 31:49
  No, the nice not only don't they understand the complexity and
• 31:53
  that's goes back to Santa Fe Institute was an attempt of
• 31:55
  trying to see if there was a way to mathematize formula rise or
• 31:59
  algorithmically understand what the term complexity means.
• 32:02
  That's that goes back to the original question.
• 32:05
  Complex systems are complex by definition, but there's not
• 32:09
  necessarily it's not one level of complexity is we might say,
• 32:11
  well, our fingers are complex, the movements, the muscles of
• 32:14
  our hands, but it's not as complex as the blood system.
• 32:18
  Now I have a circulatory system, I have systems on top of systems
• 32:21
  so that there's no one group of or person that really
• 32:25
  understands the way the body works.
• 32:26
  There's no one group that understands the way the
• 32:28
  financial systems work. You might understand US bond
• 32:32
  markets. Now you've asked about the trade
• 32:33
  of long term capital. That was a bond fund, very small
• 32:38
  part of this very complex system.
• 32:40
  So the goal of the Santa Fe Institute was to see, is there a
• 32:42
  way to get in, somehow understand how complex systems
• 32:47
  interact? Fast forward, Steve, to today,
• 32:52
  where Google and these other engine companies, the other tech
• 32:57
  companies are trying to build artificial intelligence.
• 33:00
  The strangest thing that they found, one of the strangest
• 33:03
  things is that the systems that they designed, this artificial
• 33:05
  intelligence, which a lot of people have heard about, is they
• 33:07
  designed a bunch of systems. They're called neural Nets,
• 33:12
  terms simply taken out of brain work.
• 33:13
  Neurons in the brain Nets. Because they actually look like
• 33:16
  a net. They put in some inputs.
• 33:20
  The computer's work spit out an answer.
• 33:23
  Sounds normal to you? It's because you're thinking
• 33:25
  about that calculator you had in 1976 on your desk.
• 33:28
  When you ask the person who designed the system, how did it
• 33:32
  come to that answer, how did your neural net?
• 33:36
  Can you show me the calculations?
• 33:37
  They say, no, we don't know. We don't know how the thing we
• 33:41
  designed actually came up with that answer.
• 33:44
  That's pretty strange. They take the same neural net
• 33:47
  now and they put it in front of a video game.
• 33:50
  No, no learning, nothing they said to the computer.
• 33:52
  They say, sit in front of your video game and learn how to
• 33:54
  play. It seems the computer learns
• 33:57
  better than any human in history, faster than any human
• 34:00
  history beats any human in history.
• 34:02
  But when you ask the designer, how did it do it?
• 34:06
  No one knows. It just did it.
• 34:08
  So that's the first little touch of things that we already have
• 34:12
  gotten to a place where we don't understand it and we built it.
• 34:17
  On Sunday afternoon, September 14th, 2008, where were you?
• 34:25
  Sorry. It was the night they put Lehman
• 34:27
  Brothers in bankruptcy in London.
• 34:28
  I was in jail. Seriously.
• 34:31
  Yes. So the financial crisis of 2008
• 34:34
  happened when you were in jail. Oh, that's going to be so
• 34:35
  amazing. That's going to be so amazing.
• 34:39
  I take it you couldn't. You didn't have your Wall Street
• 34:41
  Journal dropped off to you in the morning.
• 34:42
  Your Financial Times. No.
• 34:43
  How did you hear about that? How did you hear about?
• 34:46
  Because I want the. I forgot about this, but yes.
• 34:48
  I'm trying to get this going to be amazing.
• 34:50
  This is. Let's go back and do that.
• 34:51
  Again, that's why everything went to shit.
• 34:53
  Epstein was in jail. He wasn't there to save the
• 34:56
  financial system from collapse. That's what happened.
• 35:01
  That's crazy. Maybe.
• 35:03
  Maybe if they didn't arrest him, maybe we would have avoided
• 35:07
  that. Just the thought.
• 35:11
  Sunday afternoon, because I want to find out about people, the
• 35:15
  geniuses, understanding the complexity of the financial
• 35:17
  system, because I think the best example we have is the financial
• 35:20
  crisis of the crash of 2008. Sunday afternoon, September
• 35:23
  14th, I think it was 2008, is when they were working
• 35:26
  feverishly in midtown Manhattan at the Lehman Brothers offices
• 35:29
  and various law firms around town and with the Secretary of
• 35:32
  Treasury about in the Federal Reserve what they're going to do
• 35:33
  with Lehman. They decided they weren't going
• 35:34
  to save it and so they prepared to put into bankruptcy at the
• 35:38
  open of the market in London the next day.
• 35:41
  How did you hear about what was going to happen to Lehman
• 35:43
  Brothers, and what did you immediately think when you heard
• 35:45
  there was going to be put into bankruptcy?
• 35:48
  I'm glad you asked that question.
• 35:50
  I was in solitary confinement. Oh, September 14th.
• 35:54
  That's crazy. And again, some of the public
• 35:57
  stories about the wonderful time I had in jail and of my work
• 36:01
  release, which didn't come till months after I'd been there
• 36:03
  since June in an 8 by 10 cell with a bed in the back, a six
• 36:08
  foot bed in the back, a Chrome sink which toilet attached to it
• 36:14
  and a little piece of metal sticking out that was supposed
• 36:16
  to act as a table. Now since I was in jail, there
• 36:18
  were no books. Why?
• 36:20
  There's no library, No library, But you're in jail.
• 36:24
  No, I was in jail, not prison. So in jail, I was in a place was
• 36:27
  called the Special Housing Unit, which is for the roughest,
• 36:30
  toughest, meanest people. They put me there.
• 36:33
  They set my own protection. So I was in a 8 by 10 cell with
• 36:37
  a little slit in the door where they would serve my food on a
• 36:41
  tray about 9 inches by 4 inches. And then soon as I finished
• 36:46
  eating, they'd take the tray and close it down.
• 36:48
  And one of the guards said, do you understand there's a,
• 36:51
  there's Wall Street's crashing. I'm, I'm worried about my
• 36:54
  pension fund. What should I do?
• 36:57
  And I said, sorry, Wall Street's crashing.
• 36:59
  What's happened? And he said there's some crisis
• 37:02
  and some companies are going bankrupt.
• 37:04
  I said, Are you sure? And he said, yeah, it's all over
• 37:07
  the papers. Everybody's.
• 37:08
  We're all terrified we're going to lose our life savings because
• 37:11
  we have either A4O1K or our pension funds.
• 37:13
  We don't know anything about money.
• 37:14
  Mr. Epstein, can you tell us like, what's going on?
• 37:16
  Am I going to, am I going to be able to afford my children's
• 37:18
  education? Am I going to be bankrupt like
• 37:20
  this company called Lehman Brothers?
• 37:22
  And there's another company in the front page today called Bear
• 37:26
  Stearns. Oh no, I said why?
• 37:31
  Because that's the company I was a partner in.
• 37:34
  And in fact that was a company I had a very large investment in.
• 37:38
  So as a great story, I, I didn't have my Wall Street Journal.
• 37:43
  But in the early mornings you're allowed to make 2 phone calls
• 37:47
  collect. And when you, you pick up the
• 37:49
  phone, you can dial A number and when the person picks up, they
• 37:53
  say you're getting a call from the Palm Beach County jail.
• 37:56
  Will you accept reverse charges? And the person either says yes,
• 38:00
  and they call goes through and the person says no.
• 38:03
  The person I called was Jimmy Kane, the president of Bear
• 38:06
  Stearns. And I said, tell me what's going
• 38:09
  on. And so that my knowledge that
• 38:12
  the financial crisis happened with Jimmy, who was at the
• 38:14
  center of the storm telling me about what Lehman had gone under
• 38:18
  and they were trying to figure out a way should they bail out
• 38:21
  Bear Stearns The. Did it strike you at the time of
• 38:28
  the mess you had made of your life to be in a situation that
• 38:31
  you're one of the greatest financial minds in the world,
• 38:33
  looked at by world leaders and asked their you know, you're
• 38:37
  thinking by the most prominent and important people in the
• 38:40
  world and here you are in solitary confinement.
• 38:42
  You came in, you came in, you got to make a collect call to
• 38:45
  somebody. Did it, did it strike you at the
• 38:47
  time how, how all the threads your life had come together and
• 38:52
  and and and put you in a position are you would put
• 38:55
  yourself in that position? No.
• 39:00
  So it never struck you when you had to make a collect your one
• 39:02
  collect one of your 50% of your collect calls that day.
• 39:05
  You call the president or the head of the CEO of Bear Stearns.
• 39:07
  The biggest financial event in your life is taking place of
• 39:13
  which one every important person in the world would be seeking
• 39:17
  your opinion #2 would be a once in a lifetime opportunity to
• 39:22
  apply your craft #3 It would be a once in a lifetime opportunity
• 39:24
  to make money if you were smart. And obviously you're smart.
• 39:27
  You're telling me here, truthfully, that it never hit
• 39:31
  you at all of how you'd ended up in a place where you had to make
• 39:35
  a collect phone call from a jail cell that was 6 by 9 with a
• 39:39
  steel bed and your food being passed into into a slot?
• 39:43
  The question you want to ask is who was the other call to?
• 39:47
  Who was the other call to the? Other call was to my friend the
• 39:49
  JP Morgan, who was then, I didn't know at the time, trying
• 39:52
  to buy Bear Stearns. So at one point I had two
• 39:55
  phones. It was difficult because they're
• 39:57
  afraid people are going to hang themselves with the phone cord
• 40:00
  so they don't actually come together and they're pretty
• 40:02
  short. So I was actually going between
• 40:03
  2 phones talking to Bear Stones and JP Morgan at the same time
• 40:06
  so I found it amusing. That's crazy and.
• 40:09
  It never struck you about how to end up in a situation like this.
• 40:11
  No I that would be probably means I would be too self aware.
• 40:15
  You can't possibly expect me to believe this.
• 40:17
  I know I don't believe it. It's you're telling me that
• 40:21
  during that day, you never had a moment.
• 40:23
  You sat there and go, what the fuck have I done with my life
• 40:26
  that I'm in a 6 by 9 jail cell when I should be on a training
• 40:30
  desk or I should be in my $250 million?
• 40:33
  You know, the greatest townhouse in New York City, taking calls
• 40:36
  from the king of Saudi Arabia, the president of China, the head
• 40:39
  of Russia, the president of the United States to save the
• 40:43
  world's population from a financial debacle.
• 40:45
  You'd honestly expect me to believe that you that never
• 40:47
  happened. That's what I'm saying.
• 40:49
  If Epstein wasn't in jail, we we might have we might have avoided
• 40:54
  the OA crisis. That's crazy.
• 40:58
  Someone goes you can't make calls from solitaire.
• 41:00
  I don't think he was actually in like solitaire.
• 41:02
  I just think he was in a cell alone because they said they put
• 41:06
  him in a special unit. I'll do some research into it.
• 41:11
  I'll see what I can do. I'll pull up another tab on the
• 41:13
  side here. I think I was somewhat depressed
• 41:15
  and how how could this happen to me?
• 41:17
  I'm. Not saying depressed, I'm saying
• 41:18
  a moment of awareness of how could I get myself into this
• 41:20
  situation. No, I would just say how strange
• 41:22
  that this happens. Just it's strange.
• 41:25
  I'm wearing a jumpsuit and flip and flip flop.
• 41:28
  What color was a jumpsuit? Brown.
• 41:30
  Brown. Brown jumpsuit?
• 41:32
  Yes, I notice. I don't see you in a lot of
• 41:34
  brown. No brown jumps and flip flops.
• 41:36
  Flip flops, yes. With no access to books, no
• 41:38
  access to newspapers, no access to anything, you had lived on
• 41:41
  information. Except my Almond Joy bars.
• 41:43
  It has extra Almond Joy bars. Did you?
• 41:45
  Eat Almond Joy bars and things like that because you're afraid
• 41:47
  of what the the cooks did to your food.
• 41:49
  Yes. Is that because of of that
• 41:52
  you're in for the crimes that you're in for?
• 41:54
  No, it was just in fact. It was because you're wealthy,
• 41:57
  yes. How did it?
• 41:58
  How did you know that? Well, people, people would
• 42:01
  constantly come if I was passing by or would have to go for my
• 42:04
  medical. People would either ask to
• 42:05
  borrow money or make some other types of comments about in the
• 42:08
  beginning what were. The comments at the beginning,
• 42:10
  what were the comments? It's it serves you fucking rich
• 42:13
  guys right that you're here next to me.
• 42:15
  There was nothing about your crimes.
• 42:17
  No. So all this rumor you hear all
• 42:19
  the time about people in prison that commit the type of crimes
• 42:22
  you commit that's you're saying in your personal thing is not
• 42:26
  true. No.
• 42:27
  It was all because you were rich.
• 42:28
  Yes, and it was all because they wanted to borrow money.
• 42:30
  We'll get advice. Yes, where they get advice to go
• 42:35
  long to go long, you're telling. Me you're telling.
• 42:37
  Me in solitary confinement. They're they're, they're
• 42:39
  interested in going long. Yeah, they want to know.
• 42:43
  What's to say about human nature?
• 42:44
  Well, what I think the people find one of the reasons they
• 42:47
  wanted to keep me in solitary confinement was they're afraid
• 42:49
  that everybody would want to know which stocks to buy.
• 42:51
  And what happened was after this crisis, now it's on the front
• 42:55
  page of every I. Don't want to lose this day.
• 42:57
  Sorry. Sorry.
• 42:57
  When you first heard that, did you?
• 43:01
  Was it Bear? Bear Stearns had been kicked
• 43:03
  into bankruptcy, what, 6 months before?
• 43:04
  No, no, since the same time this is part of the same deal.
• 43:07
  I thought, I thought, but no, no Bear Stearns, they said the Bear
• 43:09
  Stearns, they oh they saved Bear Stearns and didn't save
• 43:12
  Lehmannville. 6 months before they had bailed out Bear
• 43:14
  Stearns, but Bear Stearns was still a zombie.
• 43:17
  Is that what for Michelle of its former self, a.
• 43:18
  Former self, but they had quote UN quote saved it.
• 43:20
  They admit why did they make the decision in your mind, why did
• 43:23
  Hank Paulson in Bernanke this? What's this concept of moral
• 43:26
  hazard explain to the audience about moral hazardous and why?
• 43:29
  Why did they save Bear Stearns six months before?
• 43:32
  And why did the did the smartest guys in the room decide not to
• 43:34
  save Lehman Brothers? It's a good question.
• 43:39
  The real issue is, is I'd have to go back when you have these
• 43:41
  systems to the way your doctor responds to any type of
• 43:45
  emergency in your body if they might decide to save your
• 43:48
  kidneys and let your gallbladder go because the gallbladder is
• 43:51
  less important to your overall system.
• 43:53
  It's people, if at that time even this, it's not that long
• 43:58
  ago, the boogeyman was when said, well, what really
• 44:02
  happened, Jeffrey, what really happened?
• 44:04
  What what is this financial crisis?
• 44:05
  And you know, some of the progressives and the right wing
• 44:08
  blame it on the banks. It was the bank's fault and it's
• 44:11
  the fault of this very esoteric unknown concept of derivatives.
• 44:17
  It was really the derivatives that caused this financial
• 44:20
  crisis because the derivatives got somehow out of control and
• 44:23
  like the in the Mickey Mouse. And that was the way you started
• 44:26
  your financial, your financial, your, your road to a Bayonnair
• 44:29
  went right through derivatives. Yes, but it's but derivatives
• 44:32
  were not the cause. Derivatives were not the cause
• 44:35
  at all. It's like saying your hair was
• 44:38
  the cause of your heart attack because it was on top of the
• 44:40
  head. What was the cause?
• 44:43
  There isn't. Let me say there's no one
• 44:46
  specific 'cause there's a system collapses.
• 44:49
  So when many times when they have to make your death
• 44:51
  certificate, when you say, well, what did he die from?
• 44:54
  They'll say heart failure. But if you say what was the
• 44:56
  cause of his heart failure? Well, he had blood pressure, his
• 44:59
  sugar was high, he was diabetic. He had all these other problems,
• 45:01
  but he said, no, no, no, we need a word on your death
• 45:04
  certificate. Did he die from brain damage?
• 45:06
  Did he die from heart failure? That's the financial crisis,
• 45:09
  Many said. People said, well, what caused
• 45:10
  it? They wrote like on its death
• 45:12
  certificate derivatives, but derivatives were not a
• 45:15
  fundamental. Derivatives are not a
• 45:17
  fundamental cause of anything. On the so the was it Sunday or
• 45:20
  Monday? I take it was Monday morning
• 45:21
  when you made your two collect calls and you're talking to Bear
• 45:23
  Stearns on one hand and it's Morgan Stanley or the other.
• 45:25
  JP Morgan. JP Morgan, did you?
• 45:27
  That was Monday morning. Did you, Jeffrey, being one of
• 45:33
  the financial geniuses in the world, did you understand what
• 45:37
  Lehman Brothers going into bankruptcy, the domino effect
• 45:39
  that by Thursday the financial system would be under such
• 45:42
  extremists that if it didn't have a trillion dollar cash
• 45:45
  infusion in the United States, it might collapse.
• 45:47
  Did you know that at the time? Did you?
• 45:49
  View that at the time, yes, you did, yeah.
• 45:53
  Why? Again, I don't want to bore you
• 45:56
  or the audience with the idea of it's a medical procedure, but
• 45:58
  you had system failures, so you'd recognize that.
• 46:02
  If I said to you, did you realize when your father was on
• 46:03
  the ground and he was clutching his chest and he couldn't
• 46:05
  breathe, it was a bad situation. He could die.
• 46:09
  Did you? Did you know, did you
• 46:12
  immediately think about the commercial paper market?
• 46:13
  I mean the the mechanical triggers that actually had to
• 46:16
  you had to blow through the circuit boards.
• 46:17
  Did you know the circuits, did you understand the circuits, or
• 46:21
  did you have a concept of the circuits that were going to get
• 46:22
  blown through? Yes, but only because of an
• 46:24
  analogy to a body. And in fact, from my my
• 46:27
  telephones against the wall with my little metal wires.
• 46:30
  Because the next day I talked to another person in Washington
• 46:32
  about the issues of what I thought was happening, and I
• 46:35
  made the same discussion about the.
• 46:36
  There at the Treasury Department, yes.
• 46:37
  So in a in a 6 by 9 cell in the. Phones were outside the cell.
• 46:42
  In county in in Palm Beach County, California.
• 46:45
  West Palm Beach, FL. West Palm Beach.
• 46:46
  Florida, that's what you just diet.
• 46:47
  West Palm Beach, FL West Palm Beach, FL West Palm Beach, FL
• 46:52
  You're making a call to Washington, DC to talk to some
• 46:55
  deputy deputies. Somewhere in Treasury.
• 46:57
  Somewhere in Treasury, right? And that does not.
• 47:01
  That's insane. The night.
• 47:02
  Before before you go to bed it doesn't dawn on you at all.
• 47:04
  You never have a moment of self reflection that how did I end up
• 47:08
  on this metal cot when I should be at the center of things?
• 47:11
  No, I had a telephone. So during the OA crisis,
• 47:14
  Epstein's in prison making calls to the treasury to help them
• 47:18
  figure this shit. Like are you kidding?
• 47:20
  Who the fuck is this guy? This guy is literally is this
• 47:25
  the greatest evil mastermind of all time?
• 47:29
  I mean this guy is fucking real or a holy shit he's literally in
• 47:33
  solitary getting calls and calling the Treasury Department
• 47:37
  during the OA crisis. What the fuck?
• 47:41
  So I said I can talk to it makes no difference where I am.
• 47:44
  In fact, I'm still talking to the same person.
• 47:45
  If I was at my home in Palm Beach, but I'm here in jail in
• 47:48
  Palm Beach, I can dial my own phone.
• 47:49
  That's. No, but you can also make 1000
• 47:52
  phone calls here. You got to make one and he's got
• 47:53
  to take. Think how much better that was.
• 47:55
  I had to decide who is the right person to call.
• 47:56
  That was unusual for me because I would have called 20.
• 47:58
  People And what was this? What was the advice you gave?
• 48:00
  I said we have. You have a sick patient and it's
• 48:03
  very much like a sick patient in the emergency room.
• 48:05
  Don't you can't think about it like your car.
• 48:07
  People in normal walks of life think about money and things as
• 48:10
  a machine. And unfortunately so if your car
• 48:13
  breaks, cars are always easy to fix.
• 48:15
  My jets, my cars, if it breaks, I know it can be fixed because
• 48:19
  it simply follows the same pattern.
• 48:21
  If this part breaks, you replace the part and the thing works
• 48:23
  again. People and the financial system
• 48:26
  are not machines. They can't be fixed the same way
• 48:28
  you can't simply take out the put some more juice into the
• 48:32
  commercial paper market and that's like replacing the
• 48:34
  carburetor on the car. It's much more.
• 48:36
  I have a patient who can't breathe, has a stomach problem,
• 48:39
  can't see it, looks bleeding at the same time.
• 48:41
  What do I do? First?
• 48:42
  I have to think about it as a system.
• 48:44
  Where's the most logical place? What's the most dangerous place?
• 48:47
  If your heart stopped, we have to start your heart again.
• 48:49
  If the in the equivalent to the money market, why do I have to
• 48:55
  start your heart again? I need to get your blood
• 48:57
  flowing. If your blood stops, you're
• 49:00
  dead. If liquidity, which is the
• 49:03
  equivalent of blood in the financial system, dries up.
• 49:07
  Once liquidity is basically cash, putting cash into.
• 49:09
  This. That's what it is.
• 49:11
  Liquidity is liquidity. It allows the system.
• 49:14
  It's the blood of the system. You need to pump blood hard into
• 49:17
  the body of the economy to keep it flowing.
• 49:20
  And if you if you're especially when you're worried about
• 49:22
  someone dying, you're not going to be worried about the niceties
• 49:24
  of well, you got the shirt dirty and there was some damage pump
• 49:27
  in that blood. Keep that when?
• 49:28
  You talk to to the person at Treasury on Tuesday the 16th.
• 49:31
  Did you get a feeling as you were sitting in your 6 by 9 jail
• 49:34
  cell in West Palm Beach, FL that they were on top of things?
• 49:39
  No, you can't. It's impossible to be on top of
• 49:41
  things. There's no such thing.
• 49:43
  It's again, the doctor watching the patient die.
• 49:45
  You hopefully have some confidence that he's seen it
• 49:47
  before. He recognizes that there's some
• 49:50
  steps he has to take first before he bandages the guy's
• 49:52
  finger or worries about what shoes he has on.
• 49:55
  So you hope that the people in charge, your doctors who work on
• 49:57
  the emergency patient, have enough experience and, frankly,
• 50:00
  judgement to try to keep the patient alive.
• 50:03
  Did you? Think that, did you think that
• 50:04
  they had those things patients in judgement?
• 50:07
  They had pretty good judgement and you needed a lot of luck.
• 50:09
  Just like in the dead patient, you need to hopefully you put
• 50:12
  that blood in and. I'm going to say this really
• 50:14
  quick 'cause I, I again, this shows about truth and honesty.
• 50:18
  It's not about like I have to be right all the time.
• 50:21
  You know, my previous predictions when this guy was
• 50:24
  moved up through Bear Stearns, and I've talked about that on
• 50:28
  previous episodes, the history of Jeffrey Epstein, how he got
• 50:30
  to where he inevitably was. I was like, this guy had to have
• 50:34
  been getting moved up because of some inside connections or some
• 50:38
  weird thing. This guy's obviously just a
• 50:41
  fucking genius. So he's a super villain, but
• 50:43
  like, a genius super villain. Like, holy shit.
• 50:49
  Like, this is pretty crazy. Like, someone's going to let him
• 50:52
  cook. Yeah, dude, exactly.
• 50:54
  Like, what the fuck? This is incredible.
• 50:57
  Actually is what? Like, this is what they should
• 51:01
  be teaching at the Ivy League schools right here.
• 51:03
  It's. Not too late and you maybe you
• 51:06
  make some mistakes, but you have to know you can have to give it
• 51:08
  a shock. In the run up to the September
• 51:10
  crash or 2008? I guess you weren't occupied
• 51:12
  with finance that whole summer. How long had you been in jail?
• 51:14
  I got went to jail June 30th. So the entire summer, yes,
• 51:18
  before you went into jail, you were still very active in the
• 51:20
  financial markets. Yes, when you say active, you
• 51:22
  trade currencies every day. You trade stocks every day.
• 51:24
  When when people do it, Someone Like You or give you give advice
• 51:27
  to people to trade stocks or trade currencies.
• 51:30
  I don't trade every day. I think that's like Woody Allen
• 51:33
  said, it's you can't beat the bank.
• 51:35
  So I, I try to pick my spots. You know, George Soros picked
• 51:38
  his spot and when the pound collapsed, this would have been
• 51:40
  a great money making opportunity that passed me by when I was in
• 51:43
  jail. But that's not how I think.
• 51:45
  In the run up to that in the spring of 2008, were you that's
• 51:48
  when Bear Stearns got in problems I think in in the
• 51:50
  spring of 2008 and they decided to bail it out.
• 51:52
  Did the Bear Stearns guys talk to you for advice at that time?
• 51:54
  And then the big crisis in Bear Stearns.
• 51:56
  No, but the you see, again, unbeknownst to most people, and
• 52:00
  it's easy to blame people for the financial crisis like you'd
• 52:03
  blame the someone for giving your father the drink before he
• 52:06
  had his heart attack. But what really happened?
• 52:10
  The real enemy of the finance system was Bill Clinton.
• 52:15
  And if you ask me what and who caused the financial crisis, I
• 52:18
  would tell you it was Bill Clinton.
• 52:20
  Because of what Bob Rubin and he did to the financial deregulate
• 52:23
  the financial system. Subprime mortgages, it's going
• 52:25
  to be. Because as of the last time we
• 52:27
  had our 60 minute interview, you talked to me about home
• 52:30
  ownership and you asked me whether everyone should own a
• 52:33
  home and I told you no, it's too risky.
• 52:37
  So the financial collapse of 2008 is because of hard working
• 52:40
  African Americans, Hispanics and and and and whites.
• 52:43
  Who wanted to have? A piece have a ownership stake
• 52:46
  in in in the society that all rests on their shoulders.
• 52:49
  They're the culprits. No, not at all.
• 52:52
  OK then. I didn't say they were the cops.
• 52:53
  I said I was pretty clear it was Bill Clinton.
• 52:55
  OK. And why was it Bill Clinton?
• 52:57
  Because Bill Clinton wanted to get votes from those people and
• 53:00
  he sold them the idea that instead of renting in a house,
• 53:05
  that and historically the values of houses have gone up.
• 53:07
  And he said, you guys in these local communities who haven't
• 53:10
  been able to afford a house before, I'm going to show you a
• 53:14
  way. I'm going to give you a way
• 53:16
  because I'm sure you'll I'll get you a vote that you can own a
• 53:19
  house because I want your vote. So what we're going to do is I'm
• 53:24
  going to let you buy a house, Mr. Bannon, when you really you,
• 53:29
  if you're not right on the border, maybe you're not even on
• 53:31
  the border, You your credit is not good.
• 53:34
  OK, let's let's be honest. And it's not my fault.
• 53:37
  It's not Bill Clinton's fault. But whatever happens at the
• 53:40
  moment, your credit score or whatever it is, your credit's
• 53:42
  not good. Now, normally you come to me and
• 53:47
  you're a want to borrow money. I'm a bank.
• 53:50
  And I say, I'm sorry, Mr. Bannon, I can't lend you money
• 53:54
  because your credit score is not up to it where it needs to be.
• 53:58
  Hopefully if you work harder and clean up some of your problems,
• 54:00
  it will be. But no, what I say to you is I'm
• 54:05
  going to figure out a way to lend you.
• 54:07
  Lend you, not give you. I'm going to lend you money
• 54:09
  anyway, though you don't have a good credit score.
• 54:12
  And don't worry, I'm going to get a rid of the term that you
• 54:16
  don't have bad credit. Bad credit sounds pejorative.
• 54:19
  You don't want to be a person. Sounds judgmental.
• 54:21
  Yes, sounds judgmental. So what we're going to do is
• 54:24
  we're going to call your credit situation subprime.
• 54:28
  Nobody knows what that means. Subprime, that means prime is
• 54:36
  good credit. Subprime is not good credit,
• 54:40
  less than good credit. So we'll call it something that
• 54:43
  people really won't follow. And we'll tell you what, we're
• 54:46
  going to have people lend you money, though you are a subprime
• 54:51
  borrower. And I will figure out some
• 54:55
  government agencies to guarantee your loan, though I don't think
• 54:58
  you're a good risk. So the banks say no, no, no, we
• 55:02
  don't want. Initially the banks said, sorry,
• 55:05
  this is too risky, Mr. President, for us, we're in the
• 55:10
  business of managing risk. It's not our money.
• 55:11
  It's the hard working people's money sitting in our bank.
• 55:15
  We can't lend to people whose credit is not prime.
• 55:18
  You're asking us to lend people who are subprime.
• 55:21
  And he says, here's the key. If you don't, Mr. Bannon, I'm
• 55:26
  going to make sure the Justice Department charges you with
• 55:29
  discriminatory lending because you refuse to lend to my
• 55:34
  subprimers in business terms you should never lend to.
• 55:39
  But what we'll do is we're going to, I'm going to form an agency
• 55:41
  called Fannie Mae and Ginnie Mae, another agency names.
• 55:45
  They'll guarantee your loan. So don't worry.
• 55:48
  Don't worry, You don't have to pay it back anymore, even though
• 55:52
  you and maybe you don't even have to work as hard anymore.
• 55:54
  That's that's probably a harsh statement, but these players,
• 55:57
  these two big firms, Fannie Mae will guarantee the fact that
• 56:00
  that bank will receive its money.
• 56:04
  Now the bank says, wow, best deal in history.
• 56:07
  I refuse to lend to Mr. Bannon. But now he has the Big Brother
• 56:11
  uncle, his Uncle Sam, he went to his Uncle Sam and Uncle Sam says
• 56:14
  I'm guaranteeing it. The bank says, I want everybody,
• 56:18
  give me as many people as you can give me, because Uncle Sam
• 56:21
  is the best credit in the the world, not only the United
• 56:24
  States government. We'll take it all.
• 56:26
  We'll take as much subprime as we can handle because it's the
• 56:31
  best investment for the moment. It's a strange investment
• 56:34
  because it has politics that has inserted its way into the
• 56:37
  numbers. Politics doesn't belong in the
• 56:40
  in the markets. But now we're going to have, I
• 56:43
  want the votes. We'll make guarantees that you
• 56:45
  who can't get a house normally will be able to get a house from
• 56:48
  the bank. The banks is this is the best
• 56:50
  deal in history. We will package 103 hundred 1000
• 56:55
  of you subprimers and we'll sell it off to somebody else and the
• 56:58
  whole system becomes mired in subprime mortgages.
• 57:02
  That's becomes the what? Do you mean mired?
• 57:06
  This is too much supply. It's a supply demand problem.
• 57:08
  You get too much supply. No, it it's a very good
• 57:11
  question. What does too much supply mean?
• 57:13
  Well, then you get the people. Go back to your first question
• 57:16
  to me, government leaders, government leaders know if
• 57:22
  they're good if and they can do mathematics, they can balance
• 57:26
  their checkbooks. So certain people in Congress
• 57:29
  said, well, how do you value these subprime mortgages?
• 57:33
  The banks say we've, we've been valuing them the same way we've
• 57:36
  always valued them for the past 20 years.
• 57:39
  The accounting firms, there's something in, in this country
• 57:41
  called gap accounting, which is a, a standard type of accounting
• 57:46
  and we account for them the same way we've always accounted for
• 57:48
  them. If we paid $1000 for your
• 57:52
  mortgage last night, when we put it on our books today, we're
• 57:58
  going to say its value is $1000. Makes sense.
• 58:01
  I paid for it. Like what's its value?
• 58:04
  It's $1000. That's what I paid for it last
• 58:06
  night. No, the Congress people said
• 58:09
  that's not really a good answer. You know that does that doesn't
• 58:12
  give us confidence that you know what you're doing because what
• 58:17
  happens if you have to sell it tomorrow morning?
• 58:20
  If I there's a something's happened and you have to sell
• 58:22
  it. Remember, there's a kinds of
• 58:23
  stress tests. Would you be able to value it at
• 58:27
  what you paid for it the day before?
• 58:30
  And Wall Street says that's not the way you can think about
• 58:32
  this. This is crazy.
• 58:34
  We always value things at the close from the day before and
• 58:36
  they change the accounting method in essence to say not
• 58:40
  what it was worth yesterday, but if I have to sell, what would it
• 58:44
  be worth? That's impossible.
• 58:47
  So what happens is every bank now has to value something they
• 58:51
  bought yesterday at lower than they paid never before in 20
• 58:55
  years that they have to do this. So something they bought at 1000
• 58:58
  on their books was 1000 is now 990.
• 59:03
  That starts to you asked the question about what did I start
• 59:06
  to think about something's 1990 this personnel has to value at
• 59:09
  980. When did you first start to get
• 59:12
  nervous? Understand Bill Clinton in all
• 59:14
  this? Did you change glasses?
• 59:15
  OK, I changed shirt. I saw that black.
• 59:18
  I was going to say what happened.
• 59:19
  Are you OK with? The yeah, great.
• 59:21
  I think we're having all kinds of changes.
• 59:26
  When did you get a feeling? Did you ever anticipate before
• 59:30
  it happened something like 2008 could happen?
• 59:31
  No. How could that be?
• 59:36
  It's the word I can beat it to death is that it's very much
• 59:40
  like a what I expect, anticipate.
• 59:42
  I'll have a heart attack tomorrow.
• 59:44
  Unlikely was. 2008 A heart attack or stroke.
• 59:47
  Debilitating. It's a better I don't.
• 59:52
  It was both. But why was it both?
• 59:55
  Because in fact, as I said, the blood was getting dried up in
• 59:57
  the system and the head, which is sort of the central bank
• 1:00:00
  wasn't working. So to some extent it was a
• 1:00:03
  combination. It was a crisis.
• 1:00:04
  Did you see that? Building up over time.
• 1:00:06
  It's always been lurking in the background.
• 1:00:08
  I mean, if you if you have an older parent, would you say it's
• 1:00:12
  possible? Did you anticipate I'm having a
• 1:00:13
  heart attack today? No, You hope things are going to
• 1:00:15
  go better and maybe they'll fix it up.
• 1:00:17
  The system was getting too complex and it wasn't based on
• 1:00:21
  derivatives. Because what people keep
• 1:00:22
  forgetting and that of just explaining Wall Street and what
• 1:00:26
  in many professions, including Wall Street, Wall Street makes
• 1:00:29
  it sound complicated. They don't want the little guy
• 1:00:31
  to understand what they do because they make so much money
• 1:00:34
  and they don't do very much. So they they couch it in words
• 1:00:37
  like derivative and stock options and Commodity Futures
• 1:00:41
  and different types of contracts.
• 1:00:43
  It's all fairly. Everyone is capable of
• 1:00:46
  understanding it. It is not complicated.
• 1:00:48
  But Wall Street, because they make so much money from doing
• 1:00:50
  fairly simple things, needs to make it more complicated than it
• 1:00:53
  really is. The we had a a very big
• 1:00:57
  recession in the early 90s based upon real estate and and and
• 1:01:01
  Japan. That's again, you had a
• 1:01:04
  recession in the 90s. I don't know what it's based
• 1:01:06
  upon. It's always interesting to look
• 1:01:08
  back and say separate from there's certain triggers like in
• 1:01:12
  the 70s there was. What do you think it was based
• 1:01:13
  upon the 90s downturn? It's clearly there was a huge
• 1:01:15
  downturn. No, I, I just, I know there was
• 1:01:17
  a downturn. That's what I know for sure.
• 1:01:20
  That's a fact. That's what everything else is
• 1:01:22
  sort of speculation about. Why?
• 1:01:23
  Why did he have? Understand that, but there's
• 1:01:25
  some speculation that has 0% probability of being true and
• 1:01:28
  there's others that have 90% in, in the in the range when you
• 1:01:32
  look at the range of alternatives of what could have
• 1:01:34
  caused it of N90. And what I'm trying to do is get
• 1:01:37
  you all the way up to 2008. Look, you're the smartest guy in
• 1:01:40
  the room, right? You know that.
• 1:01:42
  Do you think there's anybody in the world today?
• 1:01:44
  Oops. That's this is gonna be this is
• 1:01:45
  gonna be a bad question, No. No.
• 1:01:47
  But do you, Sir, do you think anybody in the world today, the
• 1:01:49
  Alan Greenspan's, the Bernanke's, any, is there any
• 1:01:51
  central banker, you know, any partner of any Wall Street firm,
• 1:01:54
  any guy running a trading desk? And I would take it that would
• 1:01:56
  be or anybody at a Larry Fink at BlackRock, Steve Schwarzman at
• 1:02:00
  at Blackstone, the top 100 financial guys.
• 1:02:03
  Let's throw in a couple of Nobel economists.
• 1:02:05
  Let's throw in the best professors at the at Wharton, at
• 1:02:07
  Harvard, at Stanford. Do you think that there's
• 1:02:10
  anybody that understands money or understands the world's
• 1:02:14
  financial system as good as you They.
• 1:02:16
  Must be. But it doesn't come to the top
• 1:02:18
  of the head. No, OK, fine.
• 1:02:21
  Now, now that now that I've gotten that, no, now that I've
• 1:02:23
  gotten that, let's go back to 1990 and that arc from 90 from
• 1:02:26
  the fall of the Berlin Wall to 2008.
• 1:02:29
  We had we started with the implosion in Tokyo of the
• 1:02:33
  Japanese economy, Japanese financial markets.
• 1:02:36
  We had the huge run up in, in Internet stocks, right.
• 1:02:38
  We had the implosion of that in 2000.
• 1:02:41
  The, no, the, the, the, the bankruptcy of, of, of the Drexel
• 1:02:46
  Burnham in 90 implosion of Japan, huge run up in equity
• 1:02:50
  markets for the Internet implosion Internet 2010 years
• 1:02:52
  later roughly. And then this run up through the
• 1:02:54
  Iraq war and all that, the run up to 2008 every 10 years.
• 1:02:57
  It seems like we're in some sort of 10 years before the 1990s.
• 1:03:02
  Was was the 70s? You sound like an astrologer.
• 1:03:04
  OK. And that if I'm not?
• 1:03:06
  Going to be a mathematician. It just seems to be a pattern of
• 1:03:08
  every 10 years. That's what that's misleading.
• 1:03:09
  That's exactly right, because people like to see patterns.
• 1:03:12
  People like to see patterns where there are none.
• 1:03:14
  So a pattern of a financial crisis every 10 years is just in
• 1:03:16
  my mind, yes, long term capital and long term capital that had
• 1:03:20
  to be bailed out back in the late 90s when everybody panicked
• 1:03:23
  and that went a big, that bailout today would look small
• 1:03:25
  and it was a $5 billion or was $30 billion.
• 1:03:28
  People, businesses fail all the time.
• 1:03:30
  What they long term capital the Federal Reserve stepped.
• 1:03:33
  In but I'm saying they fed things.
• 1:03:34
  People go bad, things go bad all the time.
• 1:03:37
  Yes, the, the, the local, the you're correct.
• 1:03:39
  The audience is watching this. The little guys, they go
• 1:03:41
  bankrupt all the time and nobody gives a shit.
• 1:03:42
  You know why? They're a little guy.
• 1:03:44
  But when Long Term Capital Management goes bankrupt, or
• 1:03:46
  Bear Stearns goes bankrupt or Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt,
• 1:03:48
  people care because. It's an unfair characterization.
• 1:03:51
  Why do you say? Because again, it's the
• 1:03:52
  complexity of the situation. If you think about the you have
• 1:03:55
  a complex system, you have your body now.
• 1:03:57
  In fact, the little guy is my finger.
• 1:04:00
  This this is. Bear Stearns is your heart.
• 1:04:02
  That's correct. The banking system is my heart.
• 1:04:04
  The system. I can't risk My, my.
• 1:04:06
  It's not only my. You haven't been able to hang
• 1:04:08
  on. You haven't hang on.
• 1:04:09
  No, hang on. I was trying to hang.
• 1:04:10
  I want to see if the hang. On You haven't been able.
• 1:04:12
  You're not good enough. You're like junior, junior
• 1:04:14
  wizard trying to do it. You, you haven't.
• 1:04:16
  You haven't. Since we can't name another guy
• 1:04:18
  that's as as as good as you, there may be a couple out there.
• 1:04:20
  You're not. You're not bragging.
• 1:04:21
  You're, you're humble. It had to be some time.
• 1:04:24
  Please tell me there was some time before you went to jail
• 1:04:28
  and, and, and basically got cut off from daily information in
• 1:04:30
  the summer of 2008 that you started to get very nervous that
• 1:04:35
  this complex system, that something was deeply wrong.
• 1:04:38
  OK, first let's go back. When I say no one understands
• 1:04:41
  the system better than I do, it doesn't mean I only.
• 1:04:43
  Sound like a doctor get afraid he's going to get sued for
• 1:04:45
  giving a thing. You're not taking on any
• 1:04:46
  liability. There's no contingent liability.
• 1:04:48
  Here for you to know, but the word understand there's the
• 1:04:50
  problem. I don't understand the system,
• 1:04:52
  so that's I don't understand the financial.
• 1:04:54
  Please stop. You cannot sit here and tell
• 1:04:57
  them what we just went through. I'll go through again the hedge
• 1:04:58
  fund managers, the money managers, the central bankers,
• 1:05:01
  the commercial bankers, the heads of the investment banks,
• 1:05:03
  the heads of all the trading desks, the top economist.
• 1:05:06
  And I'll throw in the Business School lecturers of Stanford.
• 1:05:08
  Of all the top 200, two, 150, you can't name at the top of
• 1:05:10
  your head. The guys are at least at your
• 1:05:12
  level. You have to understand it
• 1:05:14
  somewhat. No, I'm sorry.
• 1:05:17
  We all don't understand it. No one understands it.
• 1:05:19
  It's a miracle. It's this that's part of the
• 1:05:23
  problem. It's impossible to understand
• 1:05:25
  that word. Understand simply means if this
• 1:05:27
  happens here, that will happen there.
• 1:05:30
  It's predictable. Understanding means it's
• 1:05:32
  predictable. It's not predictable.
• 1:05:33
  That's the problem. It's very in complex systems.
• 1:05:35
  That was the fascination. Is there a way to tease out some
• 1:05:38
  level of predictability? No.
• 1:05:40
  In fact, you asked, you would ask the question, it's a great
• 1:05:42
  question, which was, was it a stroke or a heart attack?
• 1:05:45
  Now, most people don't know that before they were going to have a
• 1:05:48
  stroke, they had a stroke, did they?
• 1:05:49
  They just have a stroke. Do they understand why in
• 1:05:52
  hindsight, you go back and you can make lots of explanations
• 1:05:55
  that might sound good. And if you're talking to the the
• 1:05:57
  working man, you're using language that he'll never
• 1:06:00
  understand. It's complex.
• 1:06:01
  So he just like going to his doctor.
• 1:06:03
  He says he has a gastrointestinal problem with
• 1:06:04
  his diverticulitis as opposed to saying you had a stomach ache,
• 1:06:07
  you ate bad food. People don't like to say it in,
• 1:06:10
  in normal, every man terms, the system had a stroke, but we
• 1:06:13
  don't know why. But you just OK.
• 1:06:15
  Hard working people and and there's a great social benefit.
• 1:06:18
  Would you not agree with having people having ownership in the
• 1:06:22
  system? When you say ownership in the
• 1:06:24
  system, it doesn't mean let's start over because over your
• 1:06:30
  phone too because. I don't want anyone.
• 1:06:33
  Yeah, I've seen bones or what? The fuck comes over.
• 1:06:34
  Now that's correct. Which one has sent you?
• 1:06:36
  KSAI can't even get I can't. I not believe I've got the magic
• 1:06:38
  moment when you're in fucking prison or jail, wherever the
• 1:06:40
  fuck it is. It's now there's a funny part
• 1:06:42
  that we missed, which is the funny part is what you asked me
• 1:06:45
  is. Anything funnier than that for
• 1:06:47
  black humor it's. I don't.
• 1:06:49
  I don't make any black comments. Sorry.
• 1:06:52
  You asked me what I was wearing. That's right, you.
• 1:06:53
  Two wrapped up in the Me Too movement.
• 1:06:54
  Yes. So I was wearing a brown jumper
• 1:06:58
  and a brown pair of pants given to me by the jail with the word
• 1:07:02
  trustee on the back. Because you you had qualified to
• 1:07:05
  be a trustee. Well the funny part was it was
• 1:07:07
  spelled TRUSTY so I wasn't really sure.
• 1:07:12
  I've been a trustee in many different operations, but it was
• 1:07:14
  the first time it was actually printed on my back and spelled
• 1:07:16
  incorrectly. Probably had a higher level of
• 1:07:19
  of being a trustee at at that then you had it all the all the
• 1:07:22
  boards that you were trustees, right?
• 1:07:23
  Yes, because as the trustee meant you get 2 devices to clean
• 1:07:28
  your toilet as opposed to 1. Yeah, but it also meant that
• 1:07:30
  you, you had some sort of personal fiduciary own
• 1:07:33
  responsibility for oneself. Right in the jail you.
• 1:07:36
  Know that's what being a trustee is.
• 1:07:37
  That's where they give you 2. Yes, you.
• 1:07:40
  Get 2 cleaners to try as a trustee in the jail because I
• 1:07:43
  was able to teach some of the kids from to help them get their
• 1:07:47
  GED so that's how they gave me a trustee job.
• 1:07:50
  There's no time I got to go back to this.
• 1:07:52
  So imagine you're in jail and Jeff Epstein's your tutor.
• 1:07:56
  Like, that's crazy. This whole interview is actually
• 1:08:01
  incredible. This is actually a really good
• 1:08:04
  interview. On this thing.
• 1:08:07
  Yes, you can't. There's something deeply fucked
• 1:08:11
  up with you. Well, we know there are things
• 1:08:14
  deeply fucked up with this. You will get through in this
• 1:08:16
  film. But you cannot possibly have to
• 1:08:19
  sit there knowing that you came from nowhere, knowing that you
• 1:08:23
  went to the very top of what is considered outside of science
• 1:08:25
  and maybe physics, the thing people most admire because it's
• 1:08:28
  like alchemy, understanding high finance to sit there.
• 1:08:32
  And what will be the defining financial crisis of our time,
• 1:08:36
  like like Black Friday and or Black Monday, whatever it was in
• 1:08:40
  the Great Depression and be there at that exact moment,
• 1:08:44
  triggered in part by a firm that used to be a partner in and knew
• 1:08:47
  intimately well and created much of your initial net worth
• 1:08:49
  because of and know that you couldn't someone who lives on a
• 1:08:53
  phone, right, because you do live on a phone, right?
• 1:08:57
  You had to make collect just to collect calls.
• 1:09:00
  You cannot tell me sometime during that day you did not have
• 1:09:03
  that conversation with yourself of how the fuck did I do this to
• 1:09:06
  myself to put myself in West Palm Beach in a 6 by 9 cell with
• 1:09:09
  a metal fucking bed with a brown shirt that said trustee spelled
• 1:09:12
  wrong. So did I find it amazing that I
• 1:09:15
  was there? That's not.
• 1:09:16
  Amazing. I don't want to say it's not
• 1:09:17
  funny, I thought. It wasn't funny.
• 1:09:19
  Right. Not amazing.
• 1:09:20
  It was incredible. Incredible in what way?
• 1:09:22
  It's incredible. Like how do I do this to myself?
• 1:09:24
  No, it's as incredible as me sitting here in this house.
• 1:09:28
  They're both just two sides of the coin.
• 1:09:31
  That's how I think about it, that my life today is
• 1:09:34
  incredible. Do you?
• 1:09:34
  Consider yourself a stoic. No, I just consider myself a
• 1:09:38
  hermit. Stoic's not very happy.
• 1:09:43
  Being a hermit, then being in that 6 by 9 cell, being in the
• 1:09:47
  cell qua the cell was not the problem, right?
• 1:09:49
  Correct. What was the problem?
• 1:09:54
  The Eating the Almond Joy bars. Because you couldn't eat the
• 1:09:56
  food. No right and then, but remember
• 1:10:02
  my my life is did that. Ever strike you that I got to, I
• 1:10:04
  can't eat the food because somebody might have done
• 1:10:06
  something to it. I got to eat.
• 1:10:07
  I got to live off an Almond Joy bar 1A day or two a day or
• 1:10:10
  whatever. How many ever sneak in a day?
• 1:10:12
  No sneaking in. Your 1 Almond Joy bar did that
• 1:10:15
  not it did not hit you at some time.
• 1:10:17
  How the fuck did I do this? No.
• 1:10:22
  Let's go back to the spring of 2008.
• 1:10:24
  Were you so wrapped up in your personal issue at the time you
• 1:10:26
  were not spending enough time on the financial markets?
• 1:10:27
  Or were you deeply involved in the financial markets like you
• 1:10:29
  normally were? Normally I was involved.
• 1:10:32
  And so we're saying that the smartest guy in the room didn't
• 1:10:35
  see it coming. No, of course the.
• 1:10:37
  Bankruptcy of Bear Stearns you just thought was a Bear Stearns
• 1:10:40
  problem. You didn't see it as systemic.
• 1:10:42
  I know you keep hopping on it, but it's it's not.
• 1:10:44
  Because you're a mathematician understands systems, it seems
• 1:10:46
  anybody understands that they had a systemic problem.
• 1:10:48
  You at least be the first on the early search radar.
• 1:10:51
  If if you're not going to see it, then then you're then I'm
• 1:10:54
  really afraid because that means that that I always assume
• 1:10:56
  there's at least a set of guys out there that have some sort of
• 1:10:58
  sense that something's not right.
• 1:11:01
  Imagine the guy who has a stroke or had the heart attack.
• 1:11:05
  When you ask him, did did you feel funny the day before?
• 1:11:09
  He's going to tell you, yeah, I didn't feel right.
• 1:11:10
  Something was off. I didn't feel right.
• 1:11:12
  I had a my my stomach was right. I felt a little dizzy.
• 1:11:14
  I felt a little weak, but if you ask them the day before, do you
• 1:11:18
  think you're going to have a heart attack tomorrow?
• 1:11:19
  You say no, I just feel a little weak.
• 1:11:20
  I'm a little dizzy. My stomach hurts.
• 1:11:23
  So these systems, and that's the issue of complexity.
• 1:11:26
  What complexity says is that in fact, this everything seems to
• 1:11:29
  go along and people have seen, one of the great examples of
• 1:11:32
  complex systems is sand dunes. In fact, the sand keeps building
• 1:11:37
  up. People have seen some and all of
• 1:11:38
  a sudden one more sand drop and it thinks that all the sand
• 1:11:43
  starts running down the hills. That's the way I see the
• 1:11:46
  financial model. But you funded.
• 1:11:48
  Santa Fe in the early 90s or late?
• 1:11:49
  80s I believe it was early 90s I can get back.
• 1:11:51
  But but early 90s Santa Fe was funded for the study of
• 1:11:55
  complexity theory. So let's let's back up.
• 1:11:59
  So why did I buy a ranch in New Mexico 1993?
• 1:12:02
  So that's gives you some sense I would have funded it in 1990.
• 1:12:06
  Los Alamos, which was the high energy lab up in in New Mexico,
• 1:12:11
  was losing all its scientists. And it was almost, it was where
• 1:12:14
  Oppenheimer and where the where the, a lot of the the nuclear
• 1:12:16
  weapons were in the bomb. That's the Manhattan Project.
• 1:12:18
  Manhattan Project was that's Los Alamos.
• 1:12:20
  And you bought your property out in New Mexico to be near that?
• 1:12:22
  Yes, because the scientists were going to be They cut the funding
• 1:12:25
  for high energy physics, but the people who worked in Los Alamos
• 1:12:29
  would still be in the Santa Fe area.
• 1:12:30
  They cut that because the end of the This was the Cold War
• 1:12:32
  dividend, right? I don't remember exactly why it
• 1:12:35
  was because again, people thought there was that physics
• 1:12:37
  and high energy physics really wasn't that important.
• 1:12:39
  Because that was about nuclear weapons.
• 1:12:40
  No, it was because they were trying.
• 1:12:41
  They decided it was maybe not right.
• 1:12:43
  This was the same time that Murray Gelman came up with the
• 1:12:45
  term quark. QUARK.
• 1:12:48
  He he picked it out of a old poem, the word quark.
• 1:12:51
  But it was something, it was mysterious.
• 1:12:53
  So they were starting to understand in the 90s that in
• 1:12:56
  the our world of the physical world, there was things that
• 1:12:58
  were just unexplainable. They called it strange things.
• 1:13:02
  You gave it a name, you gave it some characteristics.
• 1:13:04
  You called it, it had charm. It was one of the terms.
• 1:13:06
  It had a charm. It had a flavour, it had a
• 1:13:08
  colour, but nobody, really no one.
• 1:13:11
  Mr. Bannon understood what it was.
• 1:13:14
  Just like the financial system. And you wanted to investigate
• 1:13:16
  that? I wanted to see if we could
• 1:13:18
  build tools so others smarter than me could help investigate.
• 1:13:21
  It and that was the beginning of the concept of the Santa Fe
• 1:13:23
  Institute, and Santa Fe Institute was founded to do
• 1:13:26
  study in this type of. Of can you?
• 1:13:29
  Can these areas of strange things be described by some form
• 1:13:33
  of mathematics? So that's what I'm trying to get
• 1:13:37
  at the, the, the, the foundational thought, the
• 1:13:38
  organizing principle of Santa Fe in the high physics lab at, at
• 1:13:44
  Los Alamos, which had created the, the headquarters of
• 1:13:47
  Manhattan in the Trinity project, right, the bomb.
• 1:13:49
  So you're talking about the the elite, the high priest?
• 1:13:51
  Of physics. Of physics?
• 1:13:52
  Yes, Sir. Which high priest of physics?
• 1:13:54
  Some subset of that is also mathematics.
• 1:13:56
  Yes, they're both similar. Project out.
• 1:13:59
  One of the tools you want to do is to make sure that in this
• 1:14:01
  complex system, the finance system, I'm doing a lot of this
• 1:14:03
  for philanthropy and a lot for the good of mankind, but also to
• 1:14:05
  be able to understand this complex system, the most complex
• 1:14:08
  outside of maybe our body of of the financial world.
• 1:14:12
  Yes. Did they create tools of were
• 1:14:13
  you, were you smarter in then the mid aughts, 15 years later
• 1:14:19
  than you had been then because of work that was done at Santa
• 1:14:21
  Fe? No, that was, it was great.
• 1:14:24
  But in fact, most of the money, most of my philanthropy in the
• 1:14:26
  area of can you describe things that appear to be unexplainable
• 1:14:32
  by mathematics and can can you fund people who have new ideas?
• 1:14:35
  And unfortunately, when someone thinks they've been able to,
• 1:14:38
  there's a man, Stuart Kaufman, when they think they OK, I
• 1:14:41
  figured out how to be able to predict the unpredictable, what
• 1:14:44
  appears to other people to be unpredictable.
• 1:14:46
  But my system in those days was called genetic algorithms can
• 1:14:49
  predict the what things will happen.
• 1:14:51
  Then they all want to make money.
• 1:14:52
  So they use their systems to try to figure out, they know they
• 1:14:55
  have figured out the way to make money because they figured out
• 1:14:58
  the unexplainable. They try, they go bankrupt and
• 1:15:00
  we start again. So in with a cold view.
• 1:15:04
  What I've come to realize is that the the attempt to
• 1:15:06
  mathematize, formularize, or what in your prior work to
• 1:15:10
  understand what really is in today's world still
• 1:15:14
  unexplainable is impossible. They're miracles, the.
• 1:15:20
  Your first head of Santa Fe was Christopher.
• 1:15:23
  Langdon. Langdon from from Australia.
• 1:15:24
  But Murray Gelman was. Murray Gelman was.
• 1:15:26
  The funder he was, he was the the rock.
• 1:15:28
  Yes, he was the rock. He was a Nobel Prize winner.
• 1:15:30
  Yes, yes, and and a wonderful guy.
• 1:15:31
  He came out and helped us with the Biosphere 2 project.
• 1:15:33
  He came with Chris Landon. Chris Landon was the operator.
• 1:15:37
  The day-to-day Chris was doing artificial life.
• 1:15:39
  Murray tried to lead his own artificial life, yes.
• 1:15:43
  When Chris came to Biosphere 2 for the for the first big
• 1:15:46
  conference we had in 1994, he was one of the most impressive
• 1:15:49
  guys there among all the world's elite Kew Gardens, though
• 1:15:52
  Lawrence Livermore lab, the the the labs at Sandia, you know,
• 1:15:56
  all the, all the major universities, Lamont Doherty,
• 1:15:58
  all the big earth observers, Woods Hole.
• 1:16:00
  What set Landon apart, I thought, and the reason I
• 1:16:03
  invited Santa Fe to be part of it, was Langdon actually made a
• 1:16:05
  presentation that everything, and he was making this to
• 1:16:08
  scientists, a lot of marine biologists, a lot of people that
• 1:16:10
  just beginning Wally Broker and people were just beginning the
• 1:16:12
  study of climate change, at that time called global warming.
• 1:16:15
  That he made this compelling presentation that everything's
• 1:16:18
  really mathematics. It's all just back to math and
• 1:16:21
  you have to all these experiments you do, you're not.
• 1:16:23
  One of the reasons they're not considered by the high priest in
• 1:16:26
  physics as being real experiments is that they don't
• 1:16:29
  have a mathematical basis to it, and everything has a
• 1:16:31
  mathematical basis to it. Langitz seemed like a radical
• 1:16:35
  visionary. What happened to that concept?
• 1:16:39
  You go back 350 years, so you have Isaac Newton, you have
• 1:16:44
  Leibnitz. From Move forward, you have to
• 1:16:46
  think people like Heisenberg and Goodell and what every one of
• 1:16:51
  those mathematicians and philosophers came to understand
• 1:16:55
  is that there's something with there's numbers can describe
• 1:16:58
  certain things, approximate certain things, but in fact,
• 1:17:03
  trying to put measurements and numbers on other things that are
• 1:17:06
  really unexplainable is folly. It's so 300 years ago they said
• 1:17:12
  that unexplainable realm was God, and people who attempted in
• 1:17:17
  fact to explain the unexplainable who said yes I
• 1:17:20
  understand the unexplainable were charlatans, they were the
• 1:17:24
  occults, they were the astrologers, they were the con
• 1:17:27
  men. Alchemist, yes.
• 1:17:28
  Well no alchemist was. In fact, they believed that
• 1:17:31
  there was a way to transmute 1 metal into another.
• 1:17:34
  In fact, they always wanted to see if they can create gold.
• 1:17:35
  There's no reason. If you think about it, they
• 1:17:37
  recognized that one metal is different than another metal
• 1:17:41
  because there's some additional pieces to it has additional
• 1:17:43
  neutrons or protons or electrons.
• 1:17:46
  So because they thought it was a machine that they believed it
• 1:17:50
  was a machine. If I can take 5 protons and add
• 1:17:52
  five, that gives me 10. I should be able to get gold,
• 1:17:55
  Move everything around inside these systems.
• 1:17:57
  The molecules transmute 1 molecule into another.
• 1:18:00
  And if this molecule I've transmuted it into is gold, I'm
• 1:18:03
  a rich man. It's back to money.
• 1:18:05
  But this something strange happens.
• 1:18:08
  Isaac Newton says this is really weird.
• 1:18:11
  If if I want to push a ball on the table, I have to touch it.
• 1:18:15
  I could have, maybe I have to blow on it, but I actually have
• 1:18:18
  to push one side of the ball or the book to move that side.
• 1:18:22
  I'm pushing here. And obviously the this thing is
• 1:18:24
  what appears to us humans to be solid.
• 1:18:27
  So it moves one thing, but the only way to get something to
• 1:18:30
  move was to touch it or put a force against it.
• 1:18:34
  OK, seems to make sense. Everybody has that experience.
• 1:18:36
  You know, I want to lift the glass, I lift it.
• 1:18:38
  If I want to push a ball, I push it.
• 1:18:39
  If I want to pull a ball, I pull it.
• 1:18:41
  But he recognized when the ball fell off the table, fell off the
• 1:18:45
  table, it went in a different direction.
• 1:18:49
  How's that possible? Nobody pushed the ball down.
• 1:18:51
  And he said, this is crazy. Why did the ball go down?
• 1:18:55
  I didn't push it. I just let it go.
• 1:18:58
  So someone's pushing the ball because I know that I'm
• 1:19:01
  confident that the only thing that gets something to move is
• 1:19:04
  with a force that pushes. So there's a force that's
• 1:19:06
  pushing the ball down. In fact, he never, he called it
• 1:19:11
  gravity. He measured how fast it was
• 1:19:14
  pulled, but never was able to explain why it happened.
• 1:19:18
  How is it? What is gravity?
• 1:19:20
  It's this everybody says, well, why did the ball fall to the
• 1:19:23
  ground? Because gravity took it.
• 1:19:24
  But what's gravity? That's as Feynman would say,
• 1:19:26
  that's the name of the thing. We have no idea what it is.
• 1:19:29
  This goes to Santa Fe. They were trying to put explain
• 1:19:33
  the unexplainable. Can we measure, can we figure
• 1:19:36
  out a way to predict the stock markets using these types of
• 1:19:40
  chaos complexity? Before we get there, let's walk
• 1:19:41
  back. Let's go.
• 1:19:42
  Let's go back to Newton pre Newton and the Newton what did
• 1:19:46
  Newton solve that for millennia up to Newton had not been
• 1:19:50
  solved. Then I want to go for it all the
• 1:19:51
  way to Santa Fe what they were trying to solve.
• 1:19:53
  Let's start with just two or three the basic guys, but let's
• 1:19:55
  go with Newton. What pre Newton it was what?
• 1:19:57
  And then why is Newton such a, a genius in such a, in, in the, I
• 1:20:03
  think mathematically, they told me one time I've seen there's
• 1:20:05
  been 115 billion people roughly that have lived on the Earth.
• 1:20:08
  And of that 115 billion, you sure?
• 1:20:10
  That's a number that sounds a lot very high.
• 1:20:12
  We only have 7 now. I, I think in the history of the
• 1:20:14
  Earth, I think is I, I'll, I'll pull, I'll pull up the, the stat
• 1:20:17
  for you, but I think it's 115 million people they figured.
• 1:20:19
  That probably is inflation. That's why you have.
• 1:20:21
  Have lived through, have lived through the have lived on Earth.
• 1:20:23
  But he's on the handful of the most important.
• 1:20:26
  What did he solve for? Why is he so important for how
• 1:20:28
  we Live Today? And then we want to go through
• 1:20:30
  Leibnitz and the other. There are three other major ones
• 1:20:32
  that get us to Santa Fe. Well, it's a long, it's a long
• 1:20:35
  journey. It's this is the heart of the
• 1:20:36
  this is the heart of what we're. Trying to do let me take a bit
• 1:20:38
  of a detour Second, what if you if you went to high school and
• 1:20:42
  the last year in your high school you took calculus.
• 1:20:46
  So Isaac Newton sort of invents calculus.
• 1:20:48
  Well, that sounds invents, you know, mathematics to.
• 1:20:51
  Torture to torture seniors in high school before they
• 1:20:52
  graduate. Yes, but obviously no.
• 1:20:54
  Yes, the answer is yes. Certain people can't.
• 1:20:56
  Could never do calculus. Why?
• 1:20:57
  Why is it why is calculus so why is that the dividing line
• 1:21:01
  between, you know, to many people who could handle that and
• 1:21:04
  could go on to do certain things and people just hit the wall
• 1:21:07
  even if they know math. It seems to me that there's that
• 1:21:10
  that that calculus is the is the thing that changes it it, it,
• 1:21:13
  it, it bridges that's causes about the the about the theory
• 1:21:16
  of change and the theory of how things change.
• 1:21:18
  It's, it's a great question, but in fact, what calculus does is
• 1:21:22
  it's, it's somewhat philosophical.
• 1:21:23
  That's why mathematics is, is, you know, they used to, Newton
• 1:21:26
  wasn't a mathematician. He was called a geometer.
• 1:21:28
  That's what they used to call themselves.
• 1:21:29
  They understood geometry and and numbers, but there wasn't
• 1:21:33
  There's an old conundrum where it says if during Pythagoras
• 1:21:40
  days, Zeno's paradox it's called where they said, well, if I
• 1:21:43
  take, if the wall is 2 feet away from me and I take one step
• 1:21:46
  that's halfway to the wall, that'll be 1 foot away.
• 1:21:49
  And if I take another step that's half again, that'll be
• 1:21:51
  half a foot away and then a quarter of a foot.
• 1:21:54
  I could walk forever, but never touch the wall.
• 1:21:57
  Doesn't sound realist, doesn't make any sense in our real lives
• 1:22:00
  of the physical. But what Newton understood as
• 1:22:02
  many problems were like that many things approached the wall
• 1:22:06
  or in his in calculus approached the limit, but never really
• 1:22:10
  reached it. So he said it's OK, you don't
• 1:22:13
  have to reach it. We can do lots of the
• 1:22:14
  mathematics as if it was so close it was almost there and we
• 1:22:19
  could do lots of mathematics almost being at the limit.
• 1:22:21
  And this is really important, Steve, for today because most of
• 1:22:25
  the science up until today, things that are starting to
• 1:22:29
  approach the limit. This you were taught in high
• 1:22:33
  school that if you had 1 / 0, but if you remember your high
• 1:22:40
  school algebra, you were told what's the answer to that?
• 1:22:43
  Is there an answer to 1 / 0? No, if you were in high school,
• 1:22:46
  I'd say stay away from it. It's the boogeyman.
• 1:22:49
  You could write it down as it's undefined.
• 1:22:52
  It's not able to be determined that there's a bunch of things,
• 1:22:57
  but in fact, 1 / 0 is a strange things happen.
• 1:23:00
  It's a world of the strange. And it would I'll explain to you
• 1:23:03
  after is that when you get 1 / 0, you get into a world we don't
• 1:23:07
  know what happens. The answer is it's not
• 1:23:09
  explainable. We can give it.
• 1:23:10
  We can call it things like undetermined is what we can give
• 1:23:13
  have a convention to say it it's XY or Z.
• 1:23:15
  But in real life we don't know what happens when you are
• 1:23:18
  actually at the limit. So that's a Newton thought.
• 1:23:22
  The same concept is that the limits were Philip God.
• 1:23:25
  You got close to God, but you can never be God be had this
• 1:23:28
  sort of religious interpretation.
• 1:23:29
  OK, I want to go back to Newton. Why is Newton such a big
• 1:23:32
  dividing line in mankind's history?
• 1:23:34
  What is it about Newton? What is it about?
• 1:23:36
  What are you trying to solve? What did they not know
• 1:23:37
  beforehand? And what?
• 1:23:38
  Because we live to a degree in a Newtonian universe.
• 1:23:42
  Although I realized later sub sub particle atomic physics, but
• 1:23:46
  at least for a while it was Newtonian.
• 1:23:47
  So what's the dividing line? Why is he so important?
• 1:23:49
  Why is he an inflection point in mankind's movement from the
• 1:23:53
  swamp to the stars? That's a great question because
• 1:23:55
  stars with what Newton starts to allow us to do is to make
• 1:23:59
  prediction accurate predictions. Remember that we've got talked
• 1:24:02
  about that with money about the things in our physical world,
• 1:24:06
  how cars, but he didn't have cars that how horse carriages
• 1:24:09
  moved, how things, how bowling balls moved, how pool cues and
• 1:24:13
  pool excuse me, pool table balls would keep trying to.
• 1:24:16
  Solve that before Newton. Many, many.
• 1:24:18
  Merritt Colitis or or or you know, Platinus Pythagoras had
• 1:24:22
  had these greats that we hear about.
• 1:24:24
  Had they tried to solve the same problem?
• 1:24:25
  Not the same problem that they tried to.
• 1:24:27
  Again what Pythagoras does he starts to figure out this
• 1:24:29
  relationships in triangles. For example, everyone knows the
• 1:24:33
  a ^2 + b ^2 is equal to C ^2. Pythagorean theorem which is
• 1:24:37
  basically says these shapes in a triangle.
• 1:24:40
  Each side of the triangle has a fixed relationship with the
• 1:24:45
  other two sides. That's strange.
• 1:24:48
  He knew again, but it was all numbers.
• 1:24:49
  This was a a system of things in the physical world.
• 1:24:52
  And Pythagoras says we can start putting numbers on things that
• 1:24:55
  help you predict how they will behave.
• 1:24:57
  You can add 2 triangles and make a square, some different shapes.
• 1:25:01
  They're looking at geometric forms.
• 1:25:03
  Newton says, well, I want to know how planets move.
• 1:25:05
  I want to know how things around me move.
• 1:25:07
  Can we find formulas? Can I find formulas that explain
• 1:25:12
  what I see in the physical world, how physical things
• 1:25:15
  interact and how they describe one another?
• 1:25:19
  Again, the fact that two things, two solid masses, for some very
• 1:25:24
  strange unknown reason unknown today, attract one another no
• 1:25:27
  matter what they are. People have seen the experiment.
• 1:25:29
  You're hanging with something, 2 little metal balls from a
• 1:25:31
  string. They move towards each other.
• 1:25:35
  In fact, there's a they move towards each other with a very,
• 1:25:39
  very specific. So when you drop the ball to the
• 1:25:43
  floor of this room, Newton says, in fact, the room came up a bit
• 1:25:48
  to meet the ball. The room moved.
• 1:25:50
  It's imperceptible. You can't really perceive that
• 1:25:52
  motion, but they attracted each other with certain ratios.
• 1:25:55
  So he started to be able to measure things in the physical
• 1:25:58
  world and that was great advances it also, you know, you
• 1:26:02
  wanted to move, move very quickly.
• 1:26:04
  Unfortunately, most people, especially in the 20th century,
• 1:26:07
  19th century said, well, like Newton, let's measure
• 1:26:09
  everything. Let's measure people's behavior.
• 1:26:14
  Let's measure their psychology. Let's measure their health.
• 1:26:16
  You go to the We can have my blood tests.
• 1:26:18
  Let's measure everything. Measure.
• 1:26:20
  Wall Street their their voting habits.
• 1:26:21
  Measure, measure, measure. Can we put a number on how much
• 1:26:24
  I care for my wife? Can I put a number on how I
• 1:26:27
  feel? And we tried.
• 1:26:30
  Unfortunately, we try to mathematize the the finer things
• 1:26:34
  in life and then recognize that there's things that
• 1:26:37
  unfortunately, fortunately, just fall outside everyone.
• 1:26:40
  Schrodinger wrote a very famous book about what is life?
• 1:26:43
  He was trying to figure out a way.
• 1:26:45
  Can he describe the difference formulaically between things
• 1:26:50
  that are alive and things that are dead?
• 1:26:51
  The answer's no. The things that are alive in my
• 1:26:53
  world are miracles, not magic. Magic has a bad connotation.
• 1:26:57
  Trying to hide them you. You don't believe in the spirit
• 1:26:59
  or the soul. That's what animates people.
• 1:27:01
  Is it your spirit or your soul? That's what.
• 1:27:02
  But you've have you ever seen someone die?
• 1:27:04
  When they die, their spirit leaves.
• 1:27:05
  Their soul leaves no question, so there's no.
• 1:27:07
  Question of you, no question. There's no question of you that
• 1:27:09
  there is some animating life force within us that leaves when
• 1:27:13
  you're dead. Yes, in fact I refer to the soul
• 1:27:16
  this obviously a certain the questions in the past, even
• 1:27:19
  because people. Would normally think you were
• 1:27:20
  soulless, so thank you. Have you just have you talk
• 1:27:23
  about you actually believe in it and have done some thinking
• 1:27:26
  about it. It's pretty shocking in its own
• 1:27:27
  right, isn't it? Well, I I again mathematics
• 1:27:30
  Leibnitz and Leibnitz thought. You know, Newton was at
• 1:27:33
  Cambridge and he was the head of the math department.
• 1:27:35
  He's a professor essentially to Leibnitz.
• 1:27:37
  Who was Leibnitz? A German professor?
• 1:27:38
  Yes, but what Leibnitz said is the soul is so strange that
• 1:27:43
  because God took chemicals which is simply the material like
• 1:27:47
  tables, and he somehow made this material able to have a thought.
• 1:27:51
  How strange is that? Not only does it have a soul,
• 1:27:55
  but this some way it was put together that this material
• 1:27:58
  substance can is able to think. So when you say to me, it's
• 1:28:03
  obvious to everyone that there's such a thing as a soul.
• 1:28:06
  Now if you're part of the Charlatanville, you'll try to
• 1:28:09
  explain it to people. The soul I describe is the dark
• 1:28:12
  matter of the brain. Why does it dark matter?
• 1:28:15
  Because in high energy physics nowadays you hear terms of dark
• 1:28:19
  matter, dark energy, again, terminology.
• 1:28:22
  It's a complicated term. Why is it dark matter?
• 1:28:24
  Because we can't see it, that's all.
• 1:28:25
  What? What do you mean you can't see
• 1:28:26
  it? Well, somehow we see something
• 1:28:29
  moving towards this area of darkness.
• 1:28:31
  Something. I can see this thing.
• 1:28:33
  This appears to me to be empty. It's just black.
• 1:28:36
  But I see it being drawn this way.
• 1:28:39
  So I said, well, I know if this will matter that would follow
• 1:28:42
  that equation. If this was solid it, it would
• 1:28:45
  explain the way this particle moves.
• 1:28:48
  But I can't see anything here, so I'll just call it dark matter
• 1:28:52
  and we'll say I don't know what it is, but it behaves as if
• 1:28:54
  there was something there. The soul is obvious to everyone
• 1:28:59
  that there's something different between things that are alive
• 1:29:01
  and things that are not alive, but we have no idea what it is.
• 1:29:04
  It's currently unexplainable. I believe we need an entirely
• 1:29:08
  different system of analysis to try to figure out.
• 1:29:13
  No, with Newton, you know, with all his alchemic study, chemical
• 1:29:17
  studies and, and, and, and things, he worked on the
• 1:29:19
  spiritual side. Leibnitz had just talked about
• 1:29:21
  the soul. Schroeder talk about it was like
• 1:29:23
  if a modern scientist or someone that you funded at MIT or
• 1:29:26
  Harvard or one of these things talked in those types of terms,
• 1:29:29
  they would be considered to be a wingnut today, wouldn't they?
• 1:29:31
  They would not be. They would not be on the path
• 1:29:33
  for tenure, right? Unless they were in the
• 1:29:36
  philosophy department. That this is exactly my point.
• 1:29:38
  We're talking about 3 of the greatest mathematicians in
• 1:29:41
  mankind's history that have really changed mankind talking
• 1:29:43
  like this. What happened?
• 1:29:44
  How do we get to a situation where they could not be in the
• 1:29:47
  high physics? You know they could not be in
• 1:29:49
  the mathematics, in the mathematics department or
• 1:29:51
  working in high energy. Physics.
• 1:29:53
  It's an easy answer. Newton was a combination of
• 1:29:55
  mathematician or geometry then, and philosopher.
• 1:29:58
  And as time went on that those disciplines seemed to move
• 1:30:01
  apart. We had philosophy.
• 1:30:03
  Some of the philosophers can't do math, and some of the
• 1:30:05
  mathematicians. And again, mathematicians often
• 1:30:07
  break into two categories. People that solve problems.
• 1:30:10
  Those are more like geometry than the old.
• 1:30:11
  It's just problem solvers. And then there's thinkers,
• 1:30:14
  theoreticians, they're more like the old movement towards
• 1:30:17
  philosophy. But neither one of those two
• 1:30:20
  groups have been able to figure out why something is alive as
• 1:30:23
  opposed to something that's not alive.
• 1:30:24
  No one's been able to describe what the soul is, but we all
• 1:30:27
  know it exists. And I think what we need is a
• 1:30:33
  new science is a bad word. I I think science only describes
• 1:30:36
  the things we already know about the physical world.
• 1:30:38
  In fact, there's an argument that the physical world that we
• 1:30:40
  see has been created out of our systems to be of mathematics.
• 1:30:46
  Mathematics. Everyone knows mathematics
• 1:30:47
  describes the physical world much greater than it should.
• 1:30:51
  Unless you my view, the physical world really comes out of
• 1:30:55
  conscious beings that have mathematics, so they create it.
• 1:30:58
  This table appears to you and I to be solid to a bat it or if,
• 1:31:04
  because we have light that's bouncing off the table into my
• 1:31:06
  our eyes, it appears solid. If instead of eyes that
• 1:31:11
  responded to wavelengths of visual light, our eyes responded
• 1:31:15
  to radio waves. The radio frequencies, it's not
• 1:31:19
  different. It's the same type of frequency
• 1:31:20
  as light with different speeds. The table's invisible.
• 1:31:25
  We know that we our phone works in this room.
• 1:31:28
  So the waves are coming through the windows.
• 1:31:30
  The waves are coming through the walls, so the walls are
• 1:31:32
  invisible to that type of radiation, that type of energy.
• 1:31:36
  The walls on. I can see them because my eyes.
• 1:31:40
  A physical system determines that the walls are there.
• 1:31:44
  You. With with Murray Delton you
• 1:31:47
  found it or the original donor and what had the idea of Santa
• 1:31:51
  Fe Institute in 10 or 15 years later that effort to study the
• 1:31:56
  complexity of systems mathematically.
• 1:31:59
  Yes. Is it a total failure, A total
• 1:32:02
  failure? A total failure.
• 1:32:03
  Why is that? It's the failure of science
• 1:32:05
  because in fact, if to some extent science doesn't describe
• 1:32:09
  romance, I don't know why I'm attracted to somebody I don't
• 1:32:12
  know. People are attracted to each
• 1:32:14
  other and some everyone has the same feeling.
• 1:32:15
  They've seen someone walk in the room and they say, oh, that
• 1:32:17
  person gives me the a creepy feeling science is trying to
• 1:32:21
  describe. Science doesn't describe what
• 1:32:22
  creepy feelings means. They just know it's a creepy
• 1:32:25
  feeling. I think women, as I said the
• 1:32:28
  last time, have an intuitive sense.
• 1:32:31
  What is intuitive? They have intuition, they have
• 1:32:33
  feelings, and they're able to deal in the realm of things that
• 1:32:37
  men, especially men like myself, find unexplainable.
• 1:32:40
  They have great women have intuition.
• 1:32:43
  Men see things a bit differently.
• 1:32:45
  They men want to measure everything.
• 1:32:46
  Women are not really that interested in measuring.
• 1:32:51
  In in what you're saying in macro terms, you actually think
• 1:32:53
  science, mathematics, maybe ultimately technology is moving
• 1:32:57
  to that more intuitive. I think science and math are old
• 1:33:01
  fashioned and unfortunately people are still taught that
• 1:33:04
  they have to learn algebra in school and certain things in
• 1:33:07
  school as opposed to learning to give is.
• 1:33:11
  This what Larry Summers was trying to get at maybe didn't
• 1:33:13
  say it perfectly enough, but what he was trying to get to in
• 1:33:16
  that system, the systems we study today, the way mathematics
• 1:33:20
  is either taught or understood that women just haven't gotten
• 1:33:23
  up to the highest realms of engineering or physics or
• 1:33:25
  mathematics because of that. And you're you're actually
• 1:33:28
  implying that there's a either new branch or science or we've
• 1:33:30
  hit an inflection point like a Newton that's going to go in a
• 1:33:32
  Newton took mankind in a different direction because he
• 1:33:35
  was able to measure. Then you had subatomic, you
• 1:33:37
  know, non Newtonian physics later.
• 1:33:39
  Are you saying that you think there's another developing field
• 1:33:42
  that's coming up that may take us I don't know how many decades
• 1:33:45
  to get our hands around, but that that's what's evolving out
• 1:33:47
  of this. Yes.
• 1:33:48
  Yeah, in fact, I think that mathematics, it's not the end of
• 1:33:52
  science. Every year someone says it's the
• 1:33:53
  end of we can't discover everything.
• 1:33:55
  There's lots to discover with a relationship to the physical
• 1:33:57
  world, but we know a lot already with in respect to the
• 1:34:00
  unexplainable world. We almost know nothing.
• 1:34:03
  That women again sense it. And instead of Larry Summers,
• 1:34:06
  I'm just, I won't digress too much, but Howard Gardner early
• 1:34:11
  on said there's not one form of intelligence.
• 1:34:13
  It's not mathematical intelligence.
• 1:34:15
  There's emotional intelligence that this kinesthetic
• 1:34:18
  intelligence. You know, there's, there's this
• 1:34:20
  argument that I reject that black people are less
• 1:34:22
  intelligent than white people. It's not true.
• 1:34:25
  We know, for example, that if you if I was in a in the forest
• 1:34:29
  and I have. I thought Epstein was based on
• 1:34:32
  this subject. What that that just blew my
• 1:34:36
  mind. And so let's see how he
• 1:34:39
  justifies it. To run from the lion or figure
• 1:34:43
  out a way not to be eaten. And my competition is a local
• 1:34:47
  African. I'm going to, I'm the one who's
• 1:34:49
  getting eaten because they have the intelligence to deal with
• 1:34:51
  their local environment. So it's just different.
• 1:34:54
  It's not better, it's not worse, but there's many differences
• 1:34:56
  amongst different types of people.
• 1:34:58
  And so people have different intelligences and they excel in
• 1:35:01
  some intelligences usually and less so on others.
• 1:35:04
  When did it come to Because the world of high finance is a world
• 1:35:08
  of pure reason, or is it is it a lot of emotion and gut checks
• 1:35:12
  and, and, and you know, on trading desk and central banks
• 1:35:15
  when these decisions get made? Is it is it that high church
• 1:35:18
  like the high Church of science of of high energy physics, or is
• 1:35:21
  it as much emotion that comes in as as much as the mathematics
• 1:35:24
  and the reason? That's a great question.
• 1:35:26
  I think if you talk to really experienced and successful
• 1:35:29
  traders and you ask them how they know what's going on, they
• 1:35:33
  can't give you an answer. They don't know they feel it.
• 1:35:36
  They can feel the way the market's moving, they can feel
• 1:35:38
  the way the stock's moving and that these are not very well
• 1:35:41
  defined terms. It's not, it's difficult to put
• 1:35:44
  in mathematics terms. How did I feel it?
• 1:35:45
  You could look back and make guesses what I was seeing.
• 1:35:48
  But great traders feel it and then act on their feelings.
• 1:35:52
  That's the difference. Many people feel it, but are
• 1:35:54
  afraid because they want a mathematical justification
• 1:35:57
  before they take that next step. When you first got on the
• 1:35:59
  trading desk at Bear Stearns in the late 70s or mid 70s, were
• 1:36:02
  you shocked by how little actual understanding of mathematics
• 1:36:05
  that the traders comprehended? Yeah, again, we had the Texas
• 1:36:09
  Instrument calculator. Most most stockbrokers in the
• 1:36:11
  especially before 1975, if they were good, stockbrokers could
• 1:36:14
  add. That's about it.
• 1:36:16
  They could multiply. If you could multiply, you were
• 1:36:18
  already in the top 15% of stockbrokers.
• 1:36:21
  Stockbrokers simply meant that there's a great there's a story
• 1:36:23
  when I went to the first person, I I had no money and I said, how
• 1:36:26
  much money do you make a year? And he said, $400,000.
• 1:36:31
  It's impossible. I'm I'm making $10,000.
• 1:36:34
  That's. Probably more than your family
• 1:36:35
  had made in this entire existence.
• 1:36:36
  Yes. And he makes it in a year.
• 1:36:38
  I said, what do you do? And he said it's too complicated
• 1:36:41
  for you to understand, which is what the main thrust of Wall
• 1:36:45
  Street people, they they want to tell you it's too complicated.
• 1:36:48
  Because if, if you understood that that person was simply he
• 1:36:51
  had a brother-in-law, in fact, in this case, who ran the
• 1:36:53
  pension fund, the General Motors, his brother-in-law would
• 1:36:55
  call him and say, buy 1000 IBM. He'd hang up the phone, he'd
• 1:36:58
  write it out on a ticket and walk it to a window.
• 1:37:01
  That was his entire skill set. Hello.
• 1:37:04
  Write what my brother-in-law says.
• 1:37:05
  Walk it to a ticket window. Give me an example when you're
• 1:37:08
  on the trading desk in the early days of Bear Stearns, of a time
• 1:37:11
  that you felt either complete uncertainty or you saw total
• 1:37:13
  panic where people, something was happening that people
• 1:37:16
  couldn't foretell and that they were like in a, in an airplane
• 1:37:19
  cockpit where it's going wrong. Walk us through that.
• 1:37:23
  In 1978, I think it was across the news wires, there had been a
• 1:37:28
  collapse of the currency in Thailand.
• 1:37:32
  On the other side of the world had no relationship to me.
• 1:37:34
  I wasn't sure where Thailand was, but the fact that a
• 1:37:37
  currency, a country's money had all of a sudden dropped
• 1:37:42
  tremendously in value affected the rest of the world's markets.
• 1:37:46
  And people panicked because they never had never seen that
• 1:37:49
  before. A very small part of a very
• 1:37:52
  complex system had a shock throughout the whole system.
• 1:37:55
  So prices on Park Ave. apartments, the bond markets,
• 1:37:58
  the stock markets, every start to gyrate.
• 1:38:00
  You know, there's an old mathematics mathematical
• 1:38:02
  expression that if a butterfly wings in Mexico make the wrong
• 1:38:06
  turn, it spins out and eventually when it by the time
• 1:38:08
  it gets to Canada, it turns into a tornado.
• 1:38:11
  So these are part of complex systems.
• 1:38:14
  So yeah, Wall Street in in certain parts.
• 1:38:16
  Santa Fe Institute was supposed to actually come up with a
• 1:38:18
  formula for that for the butterfly wings.
• 1:38:20
  What? Why in 15 years did you reach
• 1:38:22
  the end of of at least that? Experiment every attempt to.
• 1:38:25
  So that's why it's so exciting now because we, I think certain
• 1:38:29
  people are starting to realize that there's so many things that
• 1:38:33
  are unexplainable that, that we have to think about them
• 1:38:37
  differently. Music is a great example, just
• 1:38:40
  a, it's a common man's example. You know, when you hear a
• 1:38:43
  certain song, it makes you feel a certain way.
• 1:38:48
  How does it do that? We don't know.
• 1:38:50
  We can't mathematize it. And even that music, Steve,
• 1:38:53
  nowadays we compress music. When you have a violin, it's
• 1:38:57
  compressed onto your iPhone. So what does compression mean?
• 1:39:00
  I'm taking lots of information and I'm cutting it into lots of
• 1:39:03
  pieces and squishing it together.
• 1:39:05
  And when I squish it or compress it, I have to take out lots of
• 1:39:09
  pieces. But I say that they're not very
• 1:39:11
  important pieces. It's those pieces that we take
• 1:39:15
  out when we compress. Data, to me are the most
• 1:39:19
  interesting parts of life. You just said a while ago, part
• 1:39:22
  of this new search for science may have may go back to when
• 1:39:24
  people are actually talking about a soul.
• 1:39:25
  And you said there's no doubt in your mind that there is a soul.
• 1:39:28
  Describe for me what you mean by that.
• 1:39:29
  What do you mean by soul? What do you mean to soul
• 1:39:31
  different than the physical analog body that we're we're
• 1:39:34
  seeing on film right now? It's it's it's difficult to
• 1:39:36
  describe in words. I mean, I, I'm not a I'm not a
• 1:39:38
  poet. Poems get a little closer to
• 1:39:40
  what that really means, but we can even the concept of what is
• 1:39:43
  life becomes complicated when you deal with plants and seeds.
• 1:39:48
  Is a seed alive? I don't know.
• 1:39:50
  And certain people would say, no, it's dead when when you a
• 1:39:52
  banana. One of my favorite examples is
• 1:39:55
  the banana that's sitting on the countertop in your kitchen
• 1:39:57
  today. Is it alive or dead?
• 1:39:58
  What? Do you think about human life?
• 1:39:59
  What is? What is Tell me about human
• 1:40:01
  life? But your banana is alive.
• 1:40:02
  That banana's breathing. It's on your.
• 1:40:04
  You say that's impossible, Jeffrey.
• 1:40:06
  No. Is the banana conscious?
• 1:40:09
  All these words, these are words so you everyone's trying to fit
• 1:40:12
  very complicated concepts into a very small box called conscious
• 1:40:16
  or alive. It's these don't fit in that
• 1:40:18
  way. So if you put your banana in a
• 1:40:20
  bag and put another fruit in with it, the fruit ripens faster
• 1:40:24
  because the banana breathes with it.
• 1:40:26
  That's a we don't understand most of those things.
• 1:40:28
  So you asked the question you. Talk about the life.
• 1:40:31
  What about human life? What about it tell?
• 1:40:33
  Me what? What do you think?
• 1:40:34
  What do you think human life is? It's a miracle.
• 1:40:36
  We it's a miracle. And when I say miracle, I can't
• 1:40:39
  I can't explain it and I make no attempt to explain it at the
• 1:40:42
  moment. This we don't know how to think
• 1:40:43
  about it. And anyone, again, another one
• 1:40:46
  of the Feynman quotes when he was talking about quantum
• 1:40:47
  physics, he said anyone, Jeffrey, who says they
• 1:40:51
  understand quantum physics and quantum mechanics and quantum
• 1:40:54
  behavior, you know, they're like.
• 1:40:56
  Let's talk about it. That's post Newtonian talk.
• 1:40:58
  Talk about what's the difference?
• 1:40:59
  Who founded quantum mechanics? Why is quantum mechanics taking
• 1:41:03
  Newtonian physics and taking it to the next level?
• 1:41:05
  It's forms a much broader category.
• 1:41:07
  Let's go back to this desk. You, you use the thing of Newton
• 1:41:10
  using this desk. What is?
• 1:41:12
  Why can't Newton's theory explain everything?
• 1:41:14
  Why did subatomic quantum mechanics or quantum physics
• 1:41:17
  have to come in to explain to explain this?
• 1:41:20
  So let's let's go right back to square one.
• 1:41:21
  Why is it called quantum physics?
• 1:41:24
  So quanta is a word that simply means packet small amount.
• 1:41:28
  So it's quantized. So we recognized when we
• 1:41:31
  recognized that this this table appears, appears another very
• 1:41:34
  complicated word solid to us. It has, it's really made-up of
• 1:41:37
  molecules or atoms and atoms. We've given lots of names to
• 1:41:42
  what some of the behaviors, even if you were in school, when you
• 1:41:45
  and I were in school in the 50's, the model was a little
• 1:41:48
  center thing in the middle and electron went around and around
• 1:41:50
  it. It was seen as a ball that went
• 1:41:53
  around and around it. And as we start to look at say,
• 1:41:56
  well, let's see what this ball looks like, I want to be able to
• 1:41:58
  examine that little thing called an electron.
• 1:42:00
  We found that there was nothing there that wasn't the thing it,
• 1:42:05
  it was simply a cloud of energy that we can call an electron.
• 1:42:10
  So we already started to see mysterious things as we go into
• 1:42:12
  the very super small quantities, quantum physics.
• 1:42:16
  So quantum physics started to go into the very small and very
• 1:42:19
  small distances we we see things that we can't explain, we just
• 1:42:24
  cannot explain. How am I doing on time?
• 1:42:28
  4 minutes. Fine.
• 1:42:30
  And to summarize, no, sorry. Let's go back to human life.
• 1:42:34
  When do you think human life starts?
• 1:42:37
  It's not these. So you see, this is the
• 1:42:39
  question. You're asking me to measure
• 1:42:40
  something again, It's it can. Be measured.
• 1:42:43
  You're just. You just hate making
• 1:42:44
  commitments, that's why. You're not married.
• 1:42:47
  I'm I'm, I'm peeling this onion back a layer at a time.
• 1:42:50
  All your bullshit and happy talk.
• 1:42:51
  It can't be measured, can't be measured like that.
• 1:42:53
  Is that to say measure makes it's a commitment.
• 1:42:55
  You don't even like a commitment when you answer a question.
• 1:42:58
  Is it saying golf? Commit to the shot?
• 1:43:00
  I don't know what it means to be measured.
• 1:43:01
  It you do know what it means to be measured.
• 1:43:03
  You're one of the leading currency traders, hedge fund
• 1:43:05
  guys, or stock market financial Wizards.
• 1:43:07
  You're in the high priesthood of high finance.
• 1:43:09
  You certainly know how to measure.
• 1:43:10
  That's why you're a billionaire. Any other answer besides that is
• 1:43:12
  total and complete bullshit and you know it.
• 1:43:15
  I know very few things. You know things to be measured.
• 1:43:18
  You measure every day. You weigh and measure every day.
• 1:43:20
  You weigh and measure people. You weigh and measure leaders.
• 1:43:22
  You weigh and measure economies. You weigh and measure politics.
• 1:43:25
  You weigh and measure. You weigh.
• 1:43:26
  You hang on. Your whole life, in fact, is
• 1:43:29
  measuring. That's that's So what you've now
• 1:43:32
  done is a great thing is you've used the word measure, a
• 1:43:35
  mathematic term in the common vernacular and abused it.
• 1:43:38
  So I don't even recognize what it means.
• 1:43:40
  It's so abusive to my field. Why?
• 1:43:44
  And let's go in. In mathematics, what measure
• 1:43:46
  means and measure means what specifically?
• 1:43:48
  That's there's no specific it's a an approximation or it give
• 1:43:51
  it's giving something a number if I Einstein.
• 1:43:54
  We're not asking you to go to the 9th decimal point.
• 1:43:56
  Oh, that we didn't say that before.
• 1:43:57
  No, you're not going to the 9th. I don't.
• 1:43:58
  Even what if I say measure how how tall are you?
• 1:44:01
  You'd say 6 foot 6 feet, but is it 6 foot one inch?
• 1:44:05
  Give or take 6 is between 5:11 and 6:00.
• 1:44:07
  Feet. But what's that?
• 1:44:08
  But I want but so the question is I want.
• 1:44:10
  An xenos I got xenos paradox. I don't even know what it means
• 1:44:13
  to measure you. Is that am I measuring the top
• 1:44:14
  of your hair, the top of your skull, Which and the the finer,
• 1:44:17
  the more you're. Getting that's you're being
• 1:44:19
  rabbinical, this is like. I shape my.
• 1:44:22
  My point is, isn't that what? Isn't that going through the
• 1:44:24
  Torah where you're where you're you're you're you're parsing
• 1:44:25
  every, every, every definition? You do you.
• 1:44:29
  However, we broadly define measure.
• 1:44:31
  Your life literally is about measurement, is it not?
• 1:44:34
  It's about putting numbers on things so that I can try my best
• 1:44:38
  that you can call it whatever you like, if that if that makes
• 1:44:40
  you feel better. I want to relate it back to your
• 1:44:42
  scientific inquiry. No, it even a number it it
• 1:44:46
  people don't say a number is is a complicated.
• 1:44:48
  When did you come when did you come to this in flight?
• 1:44:50
  Why did you come to this aha moment was when it was in when
• 1:44:53
  it was in your solitary confinement, when the biggest
• 1:44:55
  financial crisis in world history was going on in your 7
• 1:44:58
  by 9 jail cell with your metal bed and your and your two
• 1:45:01
  brushes because you were a trustee with the brown uniform
• 1:45:04
  on trustee spelled wrong. Is that the moment of clarity
• 1:45:07
  that you had about science and and and Newtonian physics and
• 1:45:10
  everything that we can measure is really not going to be the
• 1:45:12
  way we go for it. It's going to be some more, much
• 1:45:14
  more esoteric emotional intelligence.
• 1:45:17
  Thing is, it was that your was that your moment of clarity?
• 1:45:19
  I wish it was because it would make such a great story for this
• 1:45:21
  interview, but it it's not. It's the fact that I lead such a
• 1:45:24
  privileged life to come across SO.
• 1:45:26
  But when did you it didn't happen?
• 1:45:28
  Then when did it or did it happen?
• 1:45:29
  Before I was going to hopefully get to the I'm in a privileged
• 1:45:31
  position to have some of the world's smartest people come to
• 1:45:34
  my house and tell me what they think about different subjects.
• 1:45:37
  And I finally realized that the thing that they had most in
• 1:45:40
  common was there was this area. This area, no matter how smart
• 1:45:44
  they were, that when I asked them the questions, they said
• 1:45:48
  they'd have to resort to a 500 or 1000 year old response to
• 1:45:52
  that question, which was I don't know.
• 1:45:55
  You know who, who else found that out in Socrates?
• 1:46:01
  That's what Socrates kept doing, right?
• 1:46:03
  Socrates kept asking all the experts.
• 1:46:06
  He would go through, you know, question after question after
• 1:46:08
  question and realize at the end they didn't really know.
• 1:46:10
  They really didn't basically understand what they were
• 1:46:12
  talking. About and one of the things that
• 1:46:13
  people won't enjoy. It turns out that potentially
• 1:46:17
  one of the bad things to teach children is how to write.
• 1:46:21
  Writing, reading and arithmetic was supposed to be everyone's
• 1:46:23
  supposed to be taught. Writing forces you into a very
• 1:46:26
  narrow channel of thinking. You have to write certain in a
• 1:46:29
  certain form, in a certain way, in a certain linear pattern.
• 1:46:32
  So you're thinking it becomes somewhat narrow.
• 1:46:34
  The most. The reason I brought up writing
• 1:46:36
  is one of the recent discoveries of mine with respect to
• 1:46:38
  Socrates, Plato's, and Aristotle is they never wrote anything.
• 1:46:41
  They spoke and people around who could write wrote.
• 1:46:46
  Socrates could think so that that that was.
• 1:46:49
  Jesus of Nazareth of the same way, right?
• 1:46:51
  Never wrote anything. I thought he was a Carpenter.
• 1:46:54
  He he was a Carpenter. Didn't he need like a little
• 1:46:55
  carpenter's tonight? I'll get that.
• 1:46:57
  But at least his written record. One last thing.
• 1:47:00
  Thank you for having me to to your house.
• 1:47:07
  Let's go back. Let's go.
• 1:47:09
  When did when did that the beginning of that?
• 1:47:11
  Was there anyone aha moment and all these great thinkers that
• 1:47:14
  had before 2008? Was it after that came up over,
• 1:47:17
  I know, many years, but when did you actually realize, hey,
• 1:47:19
  something new, something new has got to be developed?
• 1:47:22
  Yeah, that's great. Is that I've what?
• 1:47:23
  Because again, I'm privileged enough to have people around me
• 1:47:27
  who've given lots of philanthropic gifts to
• 1:47:30
  institutions of higher learning. And when I said the impact have
• 1:47:34
  you judge, how do you judge the impact of your giving?
• 1:47:37
  And we sat down and said no new, no really new ideas have come
• 1:47:41
  out. And I realized that of course it
• 1:47:43
  hasn't come out because we've been looking at using science
• 1:47:46
  and mathematics and it's the wrong tool.
• 1:47:48
  It's obvious. Institutions that are set up and
• 1:47:52
  try to put forward knowledge and and understanding and truth,
• 1:47:56
  should they take your money? Derek Bach at Harvard said
• 1:48:02
  taking money for good causes is a good thing.
• 1:48:06
  So if Hitler, if Hitler took all the gold out of the out of the
• 1:48:09
  teeth of the Jews and said I want to give this to Heidelberg
• 1:48:11
  University to fund the Leibnitz chairs so that I can study high
• 1:48:16
  energy physics, Derek Bach would say that was fine.
• 1:48:19
  Again, it's these questions are questions where people, good
• 1:48:22
  people on both sides like your Charlottesville could differ.
• 1:48:26
  I don't, I don't know the. Answer.
• 1:48:27
  So tell us, tell us the two, give us the 2 answers, the one
• 1:48:30
  answer why it shouldn't be and then the one answer.
• 1:48:32
  Derek Box says I'll take essentially take cash from
• 1:48:34
  anybody because I got so many projects, so many good guys, and
• 1:48:36
  this is the way I'll do it. So I'm indifferent to where the
• 1:48:38
  cash comes, money's money and if I got good guys, I'm the
• 1:48:41
  fiduciary. He says these are good people
• 1:48:42
  and this is good research. OK, I'll take the cash from,
• 1:48:45
  however, from any source, including you.
• 1:48:48
  What's the other argument? Let me give you that I know in
• 1:48:51
  my case. Is your money dirty money?
• 1:48:53
  If you live, it might just. Answer question Is your money
• 1:48:55
  dirty money? No, it's not so, in fact.
• 1:48:58
  Why is it not dirty money? Because I I earned it my a
• 1:49:01
  heart. But you, you earned it.
• 1:49:03
  You went back to this before you earned it.
• 1:49:05
  You earned it, advising the worst people in the world right
• 1:49:10
  that do enormous bad things and just to make more money.
• 1:49:14
  So if instead of asking me the question, should you take the
• 1:49:17
  money because I think it's a legitimate question you.
• 1:49:19
  Think it's a. Legitimate question because what
• 1:49:21
  I because I think about, I think you have Ethics is always a
• 1:49:24
  complicated subject, but I can tell you that with the money I
• 1:49:27
  gave to help try to eradicate polio in Pakistan and India,
• 1:49:32
  instead of asking me whether that money was should be given
• 1:49:35
  to these children for vaccines. I think you might want to ask
• 1:49:38
  their mothers who who received the vaccine who know their child
• 1:49:42
  now won't get polio and ask them if Epstein should have help
• 1:49:46
  these people. If we walk in, if we walk in,
• 1:49:49
  you're a mathematician. You're a mathematician.
• 1:49:51
  We walked into that clinic where they're giving that money out to
• 1:49:53
  these people that are the most dire straits of poverty and,
• 1:49:56
  and, and, and sickness and told them that the money was coming
• 1:49:59
  from a, what are you, Class 3 sexual predator?
• 1:50:02
  Tier one. You're what's tier one's the
• 1:50:03
  highest and worst. No, it's the lowest.
• 1:50:05
  The lowest. You're the lowest.
• 1:50:06
  Tier one you're the lowest but a criminal yes, that the money
• 1:50:09
  came from what? What percentage of people do you
• 1:50:11
  estimate? I understand the only probably
• 1:50:13
  is do you estimate would say I don't care I want the money for
• 1:50:16
  my children. I would say everyone said I want
• 1:50:18
  the money for my children. Did they know where the money
• 1:50:19
  came from? I think if you told them, I told
• 1:50:21
  them the devil, the devil himself, the devil himself said
• 1:50:24
  I'm going to exchange some dollars for your child's life.
• 1:50:27
  Do. You think you're the devil
• 1:50:28
  himself? No, but I do have a good mirror.
• 1:50:32
  It's a serious question. Do you think you're the devil
• 1:50:34
  himself? I don't know why would you say
• 1:50:36
  that. Because you have all the
• 1:50:37
  attributes. You're incredibly smart.
• 1:50:39
  You remember the devil. Somebody knows what the devil's
• 1:50:41
  brilliant. You read Milton's.
• 1:50:42
  You read Milton's Paradise Lost. No, the devil scares me.
• 1:50:45
  This Satan is Satan is the is the he is the he is at the
• 1:50:50
  number one or two Archangel. And the reason he goes to hell
• 1:50:55
  and leaves the rebellion is because he can't be the top guy.
• 1:50:58
  And his thing is, I'd rather I'd rather reign in hell than serve
• 1:51:00
  in heaven. I saw that in a movie once
• 1:51:02
  called The American Dom. I don't remember who said it.
• 1:51:05
  OK, you have to go. OK, OK.
• 1:51:08
  That's it. What an interview, though.
• 1:51:11
  Holy shit. Let me get it back to the main
• 1:51:12
  screen. I feel like I learned some shit
• 1:51:15
  there. I mean, I feel like I'm.
• 1:51:17
  I'm ready to go fucking invest. I feel like I'm about to go be
• 1:51:20
  the Wolf of Wall Street. Now Someone goes.
• 1:51:24
  He doesn't want to release the secrets to the goyum.
• 1:51:27
  He's getting nervous and done. Yeah.
• 1:51:31
  Can't let the goyum in on the secret sauce.
• 1:51:33
  Can't let him know what's happening.
• 1:51:36
  That was a good interview. I'm glad we did that today.
• 1:51:39
  Tomorrow we're going to be going through the actual rest of the
• 1:51:41
  files or as many of them as we can get through and we will be
• 1:51:47
  possibly doing a Part 2 to that on on Wednesday.
• 1:51:50
  It just depends how many we get through tomorrow.
• 1:51:52
  I don't I don't know if we're going to get through all three
• 1:51:54
  million they've released. I'm pulling our comments up now.
• 1:51:57
  We're going to get to the comment part of our show.
• 1:52:00
  I'm excited I'm excited. I don't know where it is.
• 1:52:03
  My fucking chess feels all fucking tight right now.
• 1:52:07
  They're talking about heart attacks and strokes on the
• 1:52:09
  screen and I'm over here like, what the fuck's going on?
• 1:52:11
  Why does my heart feel like it's about to explode?
• 1:52:14
  All right, but let's let's do the comments.
• 1:52:18
  Hope you guys have enjoyed the show so far.
• 1:52:20
  Thank you for tuning and remember to like smash the fall
• 1:52:22
  button. Leave a comment.
• 1:52:23
  Let me know what you think about the show.
• 1:52:24
  Join the telegram, follow me on X Instagram.
• 1:52:26
  You guys know what's up. We're going to start with our
• 1:52:30
  Spotify comments here. Let me get them pulled up.
• 1:52:34
  That guy doesn't look like flaky fish back to me.
• 1:52:38
  No, that's Isaiah Asher that I did the collab with on Friday.
• 1:52:42
  Fav Catholic influencer minus Jesus and whatnot.
• 1:52:48
  Catholic influencer. I'd have to think about that.
• 1:52:51
  I'll, I'll. A question by the way, are you
• 1:52:54
  Hispanic too? I.
• 1:52:56
  Think he's asking that guy? I don't really know.
• 1:53:02
  Catholic influencer, I don't know.
• 1:53:05
  There's a couple like priests that I've listened to do like
• 1:53:08
  Youtubes that do rosaries and stuff like that that are pretty
• 1:53:12
  cool. Yes, but I am America first hand
• 1:53:15
  speak English and Hispanics who live in America must assimilate
• 1:53:18
  to American culture and speak English.
• 1:53:20
  Also, I'm going to join the Marine Corps.
• 1:53:23
  Be safe. Is it OK to also be bilingual?
• 1:53:26
  Why wouldn't that be OK, you fucking idiot?
• 1:53:28
  I can speak Spanish, I just don't 'cause this is America.
• 1:53:31
  Also, not to be rude, why do you care so much?
• 1:53:34
  Yeah, I don't know. Why is Christian always asking
• 1:53:38
  Pete? Like Christian, you ask too many
• 1:53:39
  personal questions to people you don't know in comments.
• 1:53:41
  It's weird. Fiddle is the GOAT.
• 1:53:44
  Dude, Fiddle is Fidel. He's a, he's a special
• 1:53:48
  character. He is the best.
• 1:53:50
  No, I wouldn't say he's the best, but.
• 1:53:54
  Road Why do you suspect me of being a Jew?
• 1:53:56
  Face with tears of joy. Sometimes you act like 1, let's
• 1:53:59
  be honest. Why are so many people I went to
• 1:54:02
  high school with ligtards? Go ask him.
• 1:54:04
  I don't know. We're going to zip through a lot
• 1:54:07
  of these. Like I said, my fucking chest
• 1:54:09
  and heart are feeling a little. I don't know what's going on,
• 1:54:12
  maybe I need more water or something.
• 1:54:14
  Awesome thumbnail, thumbs up. That was a good one, right?
• 1:54:17
  Today's one is I. I like the one from today a lot.
• 1:54:20
  That's going to go with this episode.
• 1:54:21
  This show is America Last Bros Gotta have an Ike of at most 50.
• 1:54:25
  You're retarded. I'm mog you.
• 1:54:27
  MOG in 2026. I swear y'all are simply middle
• 1:54:30
  schoolers with adult biology. Face with bags under eyes.
• 1:54:33
  Peace. Hand sign.
• 1:54:34
  Wilted Rose, broken heart. Yeah, go do a few more emojis,
• 1:54:38
  little gay bitch. What about the Epstein files?
• 1:54:41
  We're doing that this week, sweetheart, don't worry.
• 1:54:46
  How about Gates getting an STD from a Russian Hua and asking
• 1:54:50
  Epstein for antibiotics to sneak in his wife's food?
• 1:54:52
  Face with tears of joy, face rolling on the floor laughing.
• 1:54:55
  If I were one of the richest men in the world, I just call my
• 1:54:58
  doctor. Face rolling on the floor,
• 1:55:00
  laughing. I like they say Hua like like
• 1:55:03
  it's Ralphie and Sopranos. That's funny.
• 1:55:06
  I don't know if you intentionally did that, but
• 1:55:08
  that's how I read it. Yeah, that was crazy.
• 1:55:12
  Tried to slip it in her food. He measured the children's vulva
• 1:55:15
  and vaginas by entering a finger and raided the children on
• 1:55:18
  tightness. The guests were elder men and
• 1:55:20
  included Elon Musk, Don Junior Trump, Ivanka Trump and Eric
• 1:55:25
  Trump were there. Attorney Alan Dershowitz was
• 1:55:27
  also there with attorney Bob Shapiro.
• 1:55:29
  We were taken in rooms, forced to give oral sex to Don AJ
• 1:55:33
  Trump, forced to allow them to penetrate us.
• 1:55:36
  I was 13 years old when Donald J Trump raped me.
• 1:55:39
  Gillane Maxwell was also present.
• 1:55:42
  Yeah. Here's the thing.
• 1:55:43
  Like when they released the files, there was multiple parts
• 1:55:46
  of it they released. Some parts were just like claims
• 1:55:48
  that were made and allegations that have been investigated and
• 1:55:51
  didn't pan out and those were in the files and that's what that
• 1:55:54
  was. Those claims have not been
• 1:55:57
  substantiated by any evidence. So I don't think that's real.
• 1:56:02
  I looked at and it was literally fake.
• 1:56:04
  Now obviously Trump is no St. but I'm not going to be
• 1:56:07
  supporting a public figure that share false information, which
• 1:56:10
  is why I unfollowed her. OK.
• 1:56:13
  By the way, I miswrote a few things in the first comments so
• 1:56:16
  I erased it. Person I'm speaking about is a
• 1:56:18
  public figure I followed on Instagram.
• 1:56:20
  Dude, you over explain yourself like a woman.
• 1:56:23
  It's ibro IDMD the girl a long response and I told her how very
• 1:56:27
  irresponsible have you spread misinformation and that bitch
• 1:56:30
  blocked me for that. She had used that as an excuse
• 1:56:32
  to say that if someone voted for this freak to unfollow her, then
• 1:56:35
  when proved her wrong, she blocked me.
• 1:56:38
  Dude, who fucking cares? Serious like Christian, you're a
• 1:56:41
  good kid. You comment on all the episodes.
• 1:56:43
  I appreciate it, but it's like dude, you don't have to over
• 1:56:46
  explain everything like you're a fucking woman.
• 1:56:49
  Like please, it's come on. What does it feel like to be
• 1:56:54
  fucked by Trump? It's not good.
• 1:56:59
  Would you rather have Kamala? Don't ask stupid questions.
• 1:57:03
  Dude, it wouldn't be much different, let's be honest.
• 1:57:05
  I highly dislike Trump but I think we are in the long run
• 1:57:08
  better off with him. Loki Kamala would have been
• 1:57:12
  better. We don't need Epstein best
• 1:57:14
  friend in the White House. You're a.
• 1:57:15
  Retard, you're too emotionally involved.
• 1:57:21
  That's the fucking kid who just commented.
• 1:57:23
  Dude. Just he's too emotionally
• 1:57:26
  involved. Missouri's law, passed in 2020,
• 1:57:29
  prevents the state from entering contracts with companies that
• 1:57:32
  boycott Israel. But this only effects businesses
• 1:57:35
  seeking government contracts worth $100,000 or more, not
• 1:57:39
  individuals earning salaries. So if you're an individual
• 1:57:43
  employee making over $100,000 in Missouri, this has no effect on
• 1:57:47
  you whatsoever. But they specifically target
• 1:57:50
  business entities contracting with state governments, not
• 1:57:53
  individual workers or their personal income.
• 1:57:57
  Yeah, So I I responded in the comments and I'll just
• 1:58:01
  paraphrase my responses. I just said that's still wrong.
• 1:58:03
  You shouldn't have to support Israel to get a government
• 1:58:06
  contract. And this was his response.
• 1:58:08
  Basically, if you're a company that is boycotting Israel, don't
• 1:58:11
  do it in Missouri. It's simple.
• 1:58:13
  If you don't support America's allies, then don't do business
• 1:58:16
  here. That makes sense.
• 1:58:17
  We do that with all of our allies.
• 1:58:18
  Look it up. We don't actually do that with
• 1:58:22
  all our allies, and it shouldn't be a requirement that you have
• 1:58:24
  to support America's allies openly to get a government
• 1:58:28
  contract. Israel is the only country where
• 1:58:31
  they tried to boycott them. Back in the 70s when the Arab
• 1:58:34
  nations tried to boycott countries that didn't support
• 1:58:36
  the Arab League, the federal government actually made a law.
• 1:58:39
  It's standard procedure in America.
• 1:58:41
  It's not a big deal. It's a big deal to those
• 1:58:44
  Americans, someone wrote in the live chat.
• 1:58:46
  End of show. Yeah, we're doing the comments
• 1:58:48
  now. Missouri is an evangelical
• 1:58:51
  state. James.
• 1:58:52
  Great, that doesn't make a fucking difference to me when it
• 1:58:54
  comes to this subject dude. Dude needs to invest in a better
• 1:58:58
  MIC TBH. He could use a better mic,
• 1:59:01
  you're right about that. Nice conversation.
• 1:59:03
  Yeah, I like the collab we did on Friday.
• 1:59:05
  It was fun. Would you rather live in a 100%
• 1:59:09
  non white nation that is safe or would you rather live in a 100%
• 1:59:13
  white nation that is dangerous? So this guy fucking commented
• 1:59:16
  this and then I responded and then he deleted it and then
• 1:59:21
  recommented it. I don't know why fucking
• 1:59:23
  annoying like and I my response was basically like this is a
• 1:59:27
  Dean Withers ask question like this is just so unrealistic
• 1:59:30
  hypothetical. Would you rather live in 100%
• 1:59:33
  non white nation that is safe? Where does that exist?
• 1:59:38
  Like where does that exist? Or would you rather live in 100%
• 1:59:41
  white nation that is dangerous? Again, where does that exist?
• 1:59:45
  And, and is your are you saying that 100% of people in the non
• 1:59:50
  white nation, like none of them are committing crimes?
• 1:59:52
  There's no violent crimes at all.
• 1:59:54
  And then in the other one, everybody's committing crimes?
• 1:59:57
  Like where's the line? You know, it's just, it's a
• 1:59:59
  bullshit ass hypothetical where you're just trying to get me to
• 2:00:03
  be like, oh, I'd still rather live around white people.
• 2:00:05
  It's like, dude, just shut the fuck up.
• 2:00:07
  Hypotheticals are used to test logic.
• 2:00:10
  If your principal only works in one narrow real world case, but
• 2:00:13
  fails when we test it, that matters.
• 2:00:16
  Hypotheticals are for retards. Exactly.
• 2:00:21
  Jamin just let it go, dude. Yeah.
• 2:00:25
  I mean like, you don't need to convince them, but yeah.
• 2:00:28
  Hypotheticals have always been used.
• 2:00:30
  Courts use them, philosophers use them, politicians use them,
• 2:00:34
  and even engineers use them. Are you really going to tell me
• 2:00:38
  that high paid lawyers and computer engineers are retards?
• 2:00:42
  If a lawyer used that line of questioning or that level of
• 2:00:45
  retardation in a hypothetical in court, they would get disbarred.
• 2:00:49
  Again, hypotheticals aren't actually meant to be realistic.
• 2:00:53
  They are meant to test principles.
• 2:00:55
  Your answer sounds smart on the surface, but it really isn't.
• 2:00:59
  Yeah, you're a retarded 15 year old.
• 2:01:02
  I gave a little bit of input on this topic, but keep in mind I'm
• 2:01:05
  not tag teaming with Jamin. I was just giving a separate
• 2:01:08
  argument to a topic I avoided addressing properly before.
• 2:01:11
  But now that we all are arguing, I said.
• 2:01:13
  This is my chance face with tears of joy.
• 2:01:16
  Great dude, you over explain everything. 100% white.
• 2:01:20
  That's dangerous. Nice.
• 2:01:23
  It's not just that it's dangerous to rhetoric, but that
• 2:01:26
  it's impossible to, regardless which country you live in.
• 2:01:31
  It just would never happen. I wouldn't compare yourself to a
• 2:01:34
  lawyer or an engineer bod. Don't get carried away.
• 2:01:37
  Typical Jamin. Jamin is really just a dumb kid.
• 2:01:41
  Very hypocritical of you having to clarify your argument this
• 2:01:45
  much says a lot. Spotify explain how me
• 2:01:52
  explaining my reasoning behind my argument is hypocritical?
• 2:01:56
  And also I wasn't comparing myself to an engineer or a
• 2:01:59
  lawyer. I was saying that unrealistic
• 2:02:01
  hypotheticals are used all the time to test if people will
• 2:02:04
  uphold their own principles. And also everyone in my family
• 2:02:08
  are engineers so I have observed and learned from them.
• 2:02:11
  But that doesn't matter anyways, because it wasn't the point of
• 2:02:14
  the argument. You know, the point of the
• 2:02:16
  argument was you want some like cheap gotcha moment and it's
• 2:02:19
  just like create a realistic hypothetical, draw an actual
• 2:02:23
  line of like you say 100 percent, 100%.
• 2:02:27
  Then you don't say what percentage of the people are
• 2:02:29
  committing crimes or what is making it dangerous.
• 2:02:31
  What's the per capita crime rate Like you have to again, if you
• 2:02:35
  want a real answer, you got to clarify those things.
• 2:02:39
  I'm not going to engage in retard hypotheticals.
• 2:02:43
  Let's see someone put an X link. Let's check out what it is
• 2:02:46
  before I pop it on the screen. All right?
• 2:02:49
  It's a video of Trump getting raped by Bibi Netanyahu.
• 2:02:52
  I don't think I'm going to be able to play that on the show
• 2:02:54
  without getting it demonetized. But good video.
• 2:02:58
  It's an AI video. And also, just because white
• 2:03:02
  Europeans dominated early doesn't mean USA won't be USA
• 2:03:06
  without a wide majority. Do you think that Britain is
• 2:03:08
  Roman simply because Rome ruled it?
• 2:03:10
  Do you think India is British because Britain ruled it?
• 2:03:13
  It's also not like USA is exactly the same as it was in
• 2:03:17
  1776. Please open a history book
• 2:03:20
  before making false racist claims.
• 2:03:22
  Shut the fuck up, you sound like a retard and I promised you I'd
• 2:03:27
  give you a real answer so I'll give you 1.
• 2:03:29
  But it's like let's see, just because what Europeans dominated
• 2:03:32
  early doesn't mean USA won't be USA without a majority.
• 2:03:36
  And then you bring up like other parts of history.
• 2:03:39
  It's like, why did these places fall because of mass migration?
• 2:03:42
  A lot of them because of being replaced.
• 2:03:46
  You can't bring a bunch of people who aren't real
• 2:03:49
  Americans, who don't feel the same way about the country,
• 2:03:51
  don't have the same tide of the country into the country,
• 2:03:54
  replace the founding stock of that country and expect the
• 2:03:57
  country to stay the same. Eventually it's going to turn
• 2:04:00
  more like those places. There's a reason people aren't
• 2:04:02
  mass immigrating to Somalia, because it's a shithole.
• 2:04:05
  But when we take the Somalians and mass immigrate them over to
• 2:04:08
  the United States, what happens to where the Somalians end up?
• 2:04:11
  It ends up a little shittier in the United States because a
• 2:04:13
  country is its people. The reason the country shit is
• 2:04:16
  usually because the people are shit.
• 2:04:19
  And for some reason that goes right over your head and you're
• 2:04:21
  like, oh, it's racist and I don't fucking care.
• 2:04:24
  Shut the fuck up. Can you name even one historical
• 2:04:27
  example of when immigration negatively impacted the culture
• 2:04:30
  of society in the long term? Yeah, most major empires that
• 2:04:34
  fell in literally what we're experiencing right now in the
• 2:04:36
  United States, you fucking idiot.
• 2:04:39
  Like are you fucking kidding me? It's like 26% of immigrants want
• 2:04:43
  to keep the Constitution. You obviously don't know what
• 2:04:46
  the fuck you're talking about and you're just so emotionally
• 2:04:49
  tied to these arguments and like wanting to be nice and feel good
• 2:04:53
  and fucking like like shut the fuck up.
• 2:04:56
  Immigrants don't take from USA culture, they add to it.
• 2:05:00
  Germans added burgers, African Americans created the traffic
• 2:05:03
  signal. Italians added pizza, Irish
• 2:05:06
  added Saint Patrick's Day and Catholicism in large numbers.
• 2:05:10
  Japanese added sushi. Canadians added basketball.
• 2:05:13
  Jewish immigrants founded Warner Bros and Paramount.
• 2:05:16
  Russians helped found Google, Asians helped found YouTube, and
• 2:05:20
  Brazilians helped found Instagram.
• 2:05:22
  You hate immigrants, but you benefit from them in most ways.
• 2:05:26
  No, I don't bet benefit from like again, you naming very
• 2:05:29
  hyper specific examples of just a few immigrants who might have
• 2:05:33
  done something positive. Again, the argument's not that
• 2:05:36
  every immigrant is going to be negative.
• 2:05:38
  The argument is that mass immigration is negative and that
• 2:05:41
  we have too many people coming into the country.
• 2:05:44
  And you obviously don't understand economics because
• 2:05:46
  you'd you'd have to understand the supply and demand side of it
• 2:05:49
  when it comes to affordability, housing, etcetera.
• 2:05:53
  You're a fucking idiot. It's very clear.
• 2:05:56
  And it's like you're like African, African Americans
• 2:05:58
  created the traffic signal. OK, great.
• 2:06:00
  I would rather not have the traffic signal than have the
• 2:06:02
  fucking high murder rates in these big cities.
• 2:06:06
  Like what? Shut the fuck up.
• 2:06:09
  Like all your arguments are just emotional bitch ass arguments
• 2:06:13
  that I don't respect at all. One of the other founders of
• 2:06:17
  YouTube was a Muslim immigrant and Fox was founded by an
• 2:06:20
  Australian immigrant. So you are absolutely wrong when
• 2:06:23
  you falsely claim that immigrants don't help the
• 2:06:25
  American culture. Again, This is why you're
• 2:06:29
  retarded. You don't understand
• 2:06:31
  generalizations because your IQ is low.
• 2:06:33
  If you add a higher IQ, you could understand.
• 2:06:35
  When I say immigrants aren't good for America, we're not
• 2:06:37
  talking about every individual immigrant on the individual
• 2:06:41
  basis. No, we're talking about them as
• 2:06:42
  a group, and you're too retarded to understand that.
• 2:06:46
  Fan, we're literally seeing the effects in real time you
• 2:06:49
  ignorant dipshit. I see it weekly in my small town
• 2:06:52
  in fucking Nebraska. Immigrant street racing crashes
• 2:06:55
  into a 20 year old white, kills her, bonds out and escapes to
• 2:06:59
  Mexico or whatever shithole country he came from.
• 2:07:02
  That's just one example. We need to take care of
• 2:07:05
  Americans right now and worry about a legit legal immigration
• 2:07:08
  system later. Literally common sense SMH.
• 2:07:12
  That's already the argument. I say all the time on the show.
• 2:07:14
  It's like it's a government's duty to take care of citizens,
• 2:07:17
  not anyone else, and when our citizens are struggling at the
• 2:07:21
  scale that they are right now, it's irresponsible for us to be
• 2:07:24
  taking in more immigrants. That doesn't mean we can't have
• 2:07:28
  limited immigration. Again, acting as if this country
• 2:07:31
  wasn't built on immigration is ridiculous.
• 2:07:33
  Do you think someone like Elon Musk shouldn't be allowed to
• 2:07:36
  contribute to society? Again dude, don't take the same
• 2:07:40
  retarded route of looking at things on an end.
• 2:07:42
  Unlike you got to understand generalizations.
• 2:07:44
  Don't be a retard. Once someone becomes a citizen
• 2:07:49
  and assimilates to American values, law and customs, they
• 2:07:53
  are an American. Get mad at me if you want,
• 2:07:55
  James, but that is the law of land.
• 2:07:57
  Now there are some immigrants I think need to go like Mehdi
• 2:08:00
  Hassan, Ilhan Omar, and Genk Uyghur because they hate this
• 2:08:03
  country. But I don't want to force people
• 2:08:05
  out just for not knowing English.
• 2:08:07
  That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
• 2:08:09
  Why just pressure them to learn the language?
• 2:08:11
  OK, go to Japan and don't learn their language.
• 2:08:13
  Let me know how it goes for you. It's one of the most thriving
• 2:08:15
  parts of the world. Again, you're you're too
• 2:08:17
  retarded to understand it, and that's your problem.
• 2:08:21
  Mass immigration is the biggest problem.
• 2:08:23
  It's one of the biggest problems and immigration in general is
• 2:08:26
  not good for the country. And again, saying this country
• 2:08:29
  is built on immigrants is retarded.
• 2:08:32
  We didn't come in here and live in fucking teepees.
• 2:08:34
  No, we came in here and we built everything from nothing.
• 2:08:38
  Proud American is 0 like. Yeah, literally.
• 2:08:42
  He has the average IQ of every other fucking black guy.
• 2:08:46
  Please watch this on your spare time, maybe address it on the
• 2:08:49
  show. See what it is?
• 2:08:51
  Someone sends another X link. It's a 12 minute video, no
• 2:09:02
  offense. We're not going to watch that
• 2:09:04
  now. I'll watch it on my own time.
• 2:09:05
  Maybe we'll watch it this week. 12 minutes is a little fucking
• 2:09:10
  long though. For right now, like I said, my
• 2:09:12
  chest and heart are feeling a little.
• 2:09:13
  I don't know what's going on. There's no footage of him ever
• 2:09:16
  holding the gun. It was holstered until the agent
• 2:09:19
  disarmed him. So how else would you justify
• 2:09:22
  it? A hell of a lot of conservatives
• 2:09:24
  protested with full kitten rifles during COVID.
• 2:09:26
  Would the Biden administration have been justified in shooting
• 2:09:29
  them? If they ran at the officers with
• 2:09:32
  those firearms and were interfering with their
• 2:09:34
  operations in the same way that Alex Pretty was, then yes.
• 2:09:38
  I do think that what the ICE agent did was morally and
• 2:09:41
  legally wrong, however, this argument is just flawed.
• 2:09:44
  He doesn't need to have the gun in his hand in order for killing
• 2:09:47
  him to be justified. If he were reaching for the gun
• 2:09:50
  then that would be 1 contributing factor to making it
• 2:09:53
  justified. Sick.
• 2:09:55
  I give my heart to you. Take it, take it literally.
• 2:09:58
  The greeting all of my friends and I use.
• 2:10:01
  Yeah, I, I went out. That was kind of funny.
• 2:10:04
  I went out with some people on oh, is it Saturday night?
• 2:10:09
  Sad. I rarely go out.
• 2:10:10
  I'm not like a big go out guy. Rarely if ever.
• 2:10:14
  But I had a networking event for my church, went to that and then
• 2:10:19
  I went out with a few of the young fellas.
• 2:10:23
  Pause. Not young fellas of drinking age
• 2:10:26
  fellas. And I, I looked at my buddy
• 2:10:31
  across the bar and I go, dude, I'm giving my heart to you.
• 2:10:33
  And I got a crazy couple looks going to do.
• 2:10:38
  The amount of retards who want to abolish ISIS actually crazy.
• 2:10:41
  It will be junk Christian men who will save this country.
• 2:10:45
  Yeah. Trump is going to take your
• 2:10:51
  guns, Thack and hilarious. You're a retard.
• 2:10:57
  No one in the comments section actually likes Trump.
• 2:11:00
  I definitely don't. I may support his
• 2:11:01
  administration, but I'm done with him as a politician.
• 2:11:04
  Sick Christian. That's what we mean by
• 2:11:07
  supporting Trump, supporting his administration.
• 2:11:11
  That's pretty much what we mean. I actually agree with James on
• 2:11:14
  this, but mostly for different reasons.
• 2:11:16
  I. Know because you're too
• 2:11:17
  emotionally involved. I support the government, but
• 2:11:20
  not Trump. Yeah, the government has your
• 2:11:22
  best interests in mind, buddy. Don't worry.
• 2:11:30
  I've had countless women tell me I hope you get pregnant and have
• 2:11:33
  a miscarriage so many times, but now that I'm actually pregnant I
• 2:11:37
  absolutely want to beat the shit out of women that say that.
• 2:11:42
  That's crazy that women have said that to you to your face.
• 2:11:44
  That's fucked up. Sorry about that.
• 2:11:49
  You're pregnant now though. I'll pray for you.
• 2:11:50
  That's awesome. Don't beat the shit out of them
• 2:11:53
  though, that's kind of what they want.
• 2:11:54
  Then they could sue you. I like you.
• 2:11:57
  OK, like, dude, like Christian, Christian, I'm going to be
• 2:12:01
  honest. You got to like, maybe I'm just
• 2:12:04
  in a bad mood right now, but it's like like every fucking
• 2:12:09
  thing you're just writing. Like, like, why?
• 2:12:12
  Why do you need to write? I like you to that person under
• 2:12:15
  their comment. Like, what do you gain from
• 2:12:16
  that? Seriously.
• 2:12:20
  Like, kind of insane at a point, right?
• 2:12:23
  Still angry at Candace? Ha, Would Charlie be angry at
• 2:12:26
  Candace? Let's go even further.
• 2:12:28
  Would Hitler be mad at Candace? How about the King of Kings?
• 2:12:31
  Jesus Christ? Would the founding Fathers be
• 2:12:33
  mad at Candace? Would God be mad at Candace?
• 2:12:36
  Now let's see who is mad at Candace.
• 2:12:38
  Rabbi Shmuley, Ben Shapiro, Netanyahu.
• 2:12:41
  And last but not least, Nick Fuentes is mad at Candace.
• 2:12:44
  Him. Well, let's look at what you
• 2:12:46
  said. Would Charlie be angry at
• 2:12:48
  Candace? Let's let's spell this out,
• 2:12:53
  like, from my perspective where it's like, I don't think Candace
• 2:12:56
  is right. I know you do, but I don't.
• 2:12:59
  Would Charlie be mad at Candace? Candace is accusing Charlie's
• 2:13:03
  widowed wife of conspiring to kill Charlie.
• 2:13:05
  So if I'm right, Charlie would be very mad at Candace.
• 2:13:09
  Would Hitler be mad at Candace? Yeah.
• 2:13:12
  Candace isn't even talking about it.
• 2:13:13
  The Jews, it's the frankest and Satanists and like Candace
• 2:13:17
  doesn't give a shit about the Jews and she's friends with
• 2:13:19
  Harvey Weinstein, with the King of kings, Jesus Christ.
• 2:13:24
  I don't think he holds grudges with the founding fathers.
• 2:13:27
  Be mad at Grant Candace. They would literally rape and
• 2:13:29
  enslave her. I'm like, what?
• 2:13:33
  The founding fathers would they be like, huh?
• 2:13:35
  There's this black woman in the media.
• 2:13:37
  Let's just let that go. Like, no, they would.
• 2:13:40
  They would send her to the house, maybe the field, I don't
• 2:13:45
  know. Yes, he would.
• 2:13:49
  She attacked his wife. And I again, I'm not even like
• 2:13:52
  glazing Erica. I think Erica is kind of acting
• 2:13:54
  like a bitch. I'm surprised you out of all
• 2:13:57
  people is into black women. All Italians think black women
• 2:14:00
  are attractive but can't be tempted by it.
• 2:14:04
  You're almost as brainwashed as my friend Jerry.
• 2:14:06
  OK, shit. Like, again, Christian, that's
• 2:14:08
  the kind of shit where it's like, what is that worth
• 2:14:10
  commenting? Your own missus brainwasher is
• 2:14:13
  my friend Jerry. I don't know your friend Jerry.
• 2:14:15
  I don't give a shit. Oh my gosh.
• 2:14:20
  His wife was clearly not who he thought she was, was she?
• 2:14:24
  I'm into women, period. I'm brainwashed. *** You comment
• 2:14:27
  on Charlie Kirk's podcast religiously after it was
• 2:14:30
  hijacked. What's up with that?
• 2:14:32
  I see you there all the time shilling.
• 2:14:37
  OK, I'm a supporter of his legacy and also I'm happy you
• 2:14:40
  aren't as racist as thought you were.
• 2:14:42
  Face rolling on the floor laughing face.
• 2:14:44
  Rolling on the floor laughing face.
• 2:14:45
  Rolling on the floor, Laughing face.
• 2:14:47
  Rolling on the floor, Laughing face.
• 2:14:49
  Rolling on the floor, laughing face.
• 2:14:51
  Rolling on the floor, laughing face.
• 2:14:53
  Rolling on it. It wasn't funny the first.
• 2:14:54
  Not like the message itself wasn't funny.
• 2:14:57
  Did it really need 6 fucking emojis?
• 2:15:00
  I'm done reading emojis out. Like when I highlight the whole
• 2:15:03
  message I'm going to make sure to stop it before the emojis.
• 2:15:05
  I'm I can't fucking listen to that.
• 2:15:07
  Like none of that was even funny.
• 2:15:09
  Lukewarm Christian, your new nickname lol.
• 2:15:12
  Even though I still have you on my suspected chosen people list.
• 2:15:18
  Suspected chosen people did rogue.
• 2:15:21
  This is why I like RUG. Rogue's just subjectively funny.
• 2:15:24
  Christian, You're not. You're not like I I.
• 2:15:28
  You're a nice commenter. You seem like a nice guy.
• 2:15:30
  I like hearing from you, but you're not that funny and you
• 2:15:32
  got to work on that. It's not even me being a Dick.
• 2:15:35
  That's just constructive criticism.
• 2:15:37
  Alex Pretty had been attacking federal agents for weeks while
• 2:15:41
  carrying a handgun. He wanted a deadly confrontation
• 2:15:44
  and he got one. Good riddance.
• 2:15:46
  He will not be missed. I agree dude, you commented like
• 2:15:54
  6 different X links. I'll play this one for you.
• 2:15:56
  So you you can't say I didn't play one, but it's like come on,
• 2:16:01
  let's relax. No, I'm going to get fucking
• 2:16:09
  there's a song. I'm not I'm not going to get
• 2:16:12
  copyrighted. Sorry, with there's music, it's
• 2:16:17
  like don't even, you know, I can't even play it so.
• 2:16:24
  The AI generated photo of Alex Pretty is close to how the left
• 2:16:28
  used a photo of Renee Good from a decade ago, probably before
• 2:16:31
  she went gay. What do you think about all of
• 2:16:35
  the Charlie Kirk Show podcasts made before he died being
• 2:16:38
  deleted? I haven't looked into it, I'll
• 2:16:41
  look into it this week. I'll def watch a stream with you
• 2:16:44
  too. Who?
• 2:16:46
  Which rooms are the politically provoked dude?
• 2:16:49
  Me and my future wife Brittany. My future ex-wife, maybe?
• 2:16:54
  Grow out the mustache. The old Western doc Holiday
• 2:16:57
  mustache. I could do that.
• 2:16:59
  I could. No, I don't have crawls.
• 2:17:04
  It's funny that you think all Orthodox Jews have it, because
• 2:17:07
  only Hasidic Jews have it and ancient Jerusalem Jews have it.
• 2:17:11
  I never said they all did, I just asked if you did.
• 2:17:14
  Live in Minneapolis and I'm sorry but it's pronounced
• 2:17:18
  Minneapolis, not Minneapolis. Love the show brother.
• 2:17:22
  I just don't want you to have architecture clips.
• 2:17:27
  Yeah, I think I did mispronounce it once in the last show, and I
• 2:17:29
  was speaking fast. But the difference with Candace
• 2:17:32
  is she'll say the same thing over and over again.
• 2:17:34
  Thinking she's saying it the right way, I quickly correct
• 2:17:38
  myself. I mispronounced something.
• 2:17:40
  Can you be a grouper if you're not Christian?
• 2:17:42
  I'm an atheist. Yeah, technically a griper is
• 2:17:47
  just a follower of Nick Fuentes who wants to put America first
• 2:17:50
  in every way, but the bigger movement of it is a Catholic
• 2:17:53
  movement. They would say no.
• 2:17:55
  You're not a griper. Don't fucking speak for us.
• 2:17:58
  You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of
• 2:18:01
  Griper. You could always change that.
• 2:18:07
  I lived my life without Christ for quite a while.
• 2:18:10
  May He grant you grace, and may you live your life in a way that
• 2:18:13
  reciprocates His teachings. Yeah, I'll pray for you that
• 2:18:16
  you, that Christ shows himself in your life in a way that's
• 2:18:19
  undeniable. It's fucking hilarious how many
• 2:18:22
  energy Dick writers you have. Like a solid 3/4 haters who
• 2:18:26
  comment on every show in person who comments like somehow their
• 2:18:29
  keyboard words mean shit. Good shit bro, keep making them
• 2:18:33
  cry. Trust me, I fucking know they're
• 2:18:36
  annoying. Bootlicker.
• 2:18:41
  Great. Names.
• 2:18:45
  Can you actually refute mine? Second, Turks, pride persons and
• 2:18:49
  Christians points instead of just hurling childish insults
• 2:18:52
  toward us. If you make a good argument,
• 2:18:55
  yeah. But if you're going to make a
• 2:18:56
  childish or bitch ass argument, I have no, I have no obligation
• 2:19:00
  to like actually respond to that.
• 2:19:03
  Just so you know, like it's not like when I said on my show,
• 2:19:06
  like guys, we're going to read the comments.
• 2:19:08
  It's not like I I made a promise to you that I'm going to respond
• 2:19:10
  to every retarded thought you have.
• 2:19:13
  Names. You don't actually care about
• 2:19:15
  the violence some immigrants are committing, you just care about
• 2:19:18
  the race of those immigrants. That's retarded again, like
• 2:19:22
  that's what I'm saying. It's like do you want me to give
• 2:19:24
  like a fucking 5 minute long response to that?
• 2:19:26
  No, it's just retarded. That's all it is.
• 2:19:28
  It's your mind is so small you can't comprehend big picture of
• 2:19:32
  thoughts. You, you have 0 critical
• 2:19:34
  thinking skills. You're just retarded.
• 2:19:41
  Because most immigrants aren't violent and statistics show that
• 2:19:44
  immigrants are two times less likely to commit crimes than
• 2:19:46
  natural born citizens. You're actually talking about
• 2:19:50
  violent crimes, not crimes, because all of them have
• 2:19:53
  committed a crime. Every illegal immigrants
• 2:19:56
  violated US Code 81325. And if you're talking about
• 2:19:59
  legal immigrants, they just, we don't even need them in the
• 2:20:03
  country, so we should just start putting them on boats.
• 2:20:06
  There is no irrational or irrational reason you can use
• 2:20:09
  for hating Somali or any other type of immigrant that wasn't
• 2:20:12
  used against your Italian family.
• 2:20:15
  Actually there is a lot of them I can make.
• 2:20:17
  A good one would be like in Somalia the age consent is non
• 2:20:21
  existent. While they did have one in
• 2:20:24
  Sicily, that's a pretty good one.
• 2:20:27
  Italians built the greatest cities while Somalians are
• 2:20:31
  defrauding some of the biggest cities.
• 2:20:35
  Tell me how Somalians have contributed in a positive way.
• 2:20:38
  Like fuck you. Like literally go suck the Dick
• 2:20:40
  of a Somalian for all I care. You just sound like a retard.
• 2:20:43
  There's no irrational irrational reason you can use for hating
• 2:20:46
  Somalia. First of all, we don't hate
• 2:20:48
  anybody but we just don't want them in the fucking country.
• 2:20:51
  But you can't comprehend that because you're a 15 year old
• 2:20:53
  retard. Can you explain to me the
• 2:20:56
  relevant factor of immigration that somehow makes things less
• 2:20:59
  affordable? Immigrants do hard labor jobs
• 2:21:02
  that Americans don't do. There are thousands of open jobs
• 2:21:05
  in those industries and if Americans actually applied, they
• 2:21:08
  would get paid the legal American wage.
• 2:21:11
  But they don't apply. Without immigrants it would be
• 2:21:14
  harder to produce, which would increase the price of the
• 2:21:16
  products. It's basic supply and demand.
• 2:21:19
  It's Economics 101 When? You have this many people in the
• 2:21:23
  country and they're fighting for a smaller amount of housing and
• 2:21:26
  things like that. The price is going to go up.
• 2:21:28
  That's supply and demand, you fucking retard.
• 2:21:30
  And second of all, you're talking about like wages.
• 2:21:33
  You want to know why wages are that low in a lot of these
• 2:21:35
  fields? It's because they can pay a
• 2:21:37
  fucking Indian or Somalian or a retard half the price they would
• 2:21:41
  that an American would demand. And you're like, oh, Americans
• 2:21:43
  don't even apply. Yeah, it's because they'll get
• 2:21:45
  offered that shit immigrant wage when they should be getting paid
• 2:21:48
  an American wage. But the reason the companies
• 2:21:51
  don't pay the American wage is because they have the option to
• 2:21:53
  pay the immigrant slave wage. You fucking retard, shut the
• 2:21:57
  fuck up. Can you explain to me the
• 2:21:59
  relevant factor? Like fuck off.
• 2:22:03
  Fuck you jamin. Like you're on my shit list
• 2:22:05
  today. You're pissing me off.
• 2:22:07
  Like you're just, you really are too emotionally invested and
• 2:22:12
  you're kind of retarded. Like I'm realizing it more and
• 2:22:15
  more with every episode. You are kind of a retard.
• 2:22:18
  Sorry I misspoke. Not kind of.
• 2:22:20
  You are just a fucking retard. At least a woman can get her job
• 2:22:24
  back as a nurse now. Dude, yeah, that's the Alex
• 2:22:28
  Preti. He falls and now a woman gets
• 2:22:31
  her job back as a nurse. There we go.
• 2:22:34
  Go back to X. Shut up.
• 2:22:36
  Like again, that's what I'm talking about, Christian, do you
• 2:22:38
  have to give your your little thought on everything?
• 2:22:41
  Go back to your break room. Yeah, dude, I like this next
• 2:22:47
  comment. This guy's talking about Ukraine
• 2:22:49
  and Russia. When's the last time I've even
• 2:22:51
  talked about Ukraine and Russia on the show?
• 2:22:52
  I don't fucking care. The fundamental reason Ukraine
• 2:22:56
  is currently within the state it's in is due to the actions of
• 2:22:58
  the Russian Federation and Yanukovych regime.
• 2:23:01
  Ukraine, Georgia, all of these nations are inherently corrupt
• 2:23:04
  due to the fact that Russia has been systematically raping them
• 2:23:07
  for the entirety of their independence.
• 2:23:09
  I honestly find it so humorous that westerners like you are so
• 2:23:13
  to use your language, retarded and have such little knowledge
• 2:23:16
  of us that you genuinely fall for Kremlin bait.
• 2:23:20
  Sick dude. I don't fucking care.
• 2:23:22
  I really don't care about Russia, Ukraine at all.
• 2:23:24
  He makes up a tiny minority of the USA.
• 2:23:27
  Majority of USA are like me, Christian and pride person.
• 2:23:31
  Same goes for the rest of the West too.
• 2:23:34
  Yeah, that's the part you're missing, you retard, That it
• 2:23:38
  shouldn't be that way. It should be.
• 2:23:40
  The majority is the people who built this country.
• 2:23:43
  Give Putin Western Europe to clean up.
• 2:23:46
  Could work. Out all three of us, I am the
• 2:23:50
  most right wing, but I draw the line discrimination.
• 2:23:54
  Sick. I don't fucking care.
• 2:23:59
  And no, you're not. Christian being right wing is
• 2:24:03
  perfectly fine, however actively saying things like America
• 2:24:06
  should be majority white is not. That's very racist.
• 2:24:10
  Shut the fuck up. It should be mainly majority
• 2:24:13
  white. It's there should be white
• 2:24:16
  people heavily outweighing every other race in this country.
• 2:24:19
  And blacks commit too many crimes.
• 2:24:21
  And Hispanic. Some of them work, some of them
• 2:24:24
  are absolute fucking retards. Asians generally smart like I I
• 2:24:30
  could give you things about every fucking demographic.
• 2:24:32
  Shut the fuck up. We're done with your like.
• 2:24:35
  Calling people racist just means you're like a gay little bitch
• 2:24:37
  now, you know, Get over it. I don't necessarily care too
• 2:24:42
  much about that. In America, for reasons I've
• 2:24:44
  explained, when it comes to demographic change, our main
• 2:24:47
  focus should be our ancestral homeland.
• 2:24:49
  For me, that is the Iberian Peninsula, Spain and Portugal as
• 2:24:52
  well, and Italy, Anne France. I do think however, the
• 2:24:55
  demographics here are changing too quickly.
• 2:24:59
  I think it should just stay 6040.
• 2:25:02
  No way higher than 60. In America, and I'm saying that
• 2:25:06
  as someone who is only 70, European.
• 2:25:09
  Great. Who cares?
• 2:25:10
  It shouldn't matter whether or not USA remains majority white.
• 2:25:14
  It won't be majority white soon. Yeah, and America, dude, like
• 2:25:18
  you live in Chicago. Are the black people in your
• 2:25:21
  area super safe and they don't commit crimes?
• 2:25:23
  And the the immigrants there, they're not fucking up your
• 2:25:26
  state in any way? You can be nonwhite and
• 2:25:28
  assimilate into American culture.
• 2:25:30
  After two generations. Most nonwhite people I know are
• 2:25:33
  assimilated, including myself. Half Asian Indian, half white.
• 2:25:39
  OK, you do not realize that the country is its people and if you
• 2:25:51
  replace the people you are basically changing the entire
• 2:25:53
  country and you're too retarded to understand that.
• 2:25:56
  You should ask her out. Dude, she's an E girl slut.
• 2:26:00
  No, I don't know that she's a slut, but she's an E girl, no?
• 2:26:03
  Are you kidding about slapping her face with tears of joy?
• 2:26:07
  I'm not kidding about slapping any woman.
• 2:26:09
  He was a bit harsh, he said He doesn't respect you.
• 2:26:11
  Yeah, I have a very little respect for Jamin.
• 2:26:16
  The context is that he about your views because they are very
• 2:26:19
  different from him. It's because he has no critical
• 2:26:21
  thinking skills. Classic doesn't disprove any of
• 2:26:24
  my points but just throws personal insults at me.
• 2:26:27
  It really just makes him look extremely weak.
• 2:26:30
  Yeah, I look super weak, dude. So weak.
• 2:26:33
  Lashing out is not a sign of intelligence, James, It's a sign
• 2:26:37
  of cognitive dissonance. It's a sign that I'm done
• 2:26:39
  talking to a retard. Myron Gaines is a pussy and get
• 2:26:46
  some cheeks from that girl. You're a 1/2.
• 2:26:49
  Dude I heard someone commented on my rumble show they said she
• 2:26:53
  she fucked destiny so I feel like it's off the table now.
• 2:26:56
  I don't want to, I don't want destiny.
• 2:26:58
  Sloppy seconds. That's crazy.
• 2:27:01
  Myron Gaines Nikko are both homosexuals.
• 2:27:03
  In fact, Nikko once said he used to watch gay porn as a teenager.
• 2:27:08
  I'd have to check that out. I don't know if that's true,
• 2:27:11
  maybe it is. All right, we're almost at the
• 2:27:16
  end of the comments here. Holy shit.
• 2:27:23
  You don't prove anything, you just insulted him.
• 2:27:25
  You literally ignored my point to.
• 2:27:27
  Yeah, because you guys fucking make retarded points sometimes.
• 2:27:31
  Christian Cost James's views are, for the most part,
• 2:27:34
  ridiculous. My views are the views of the
• 2:27:38
  majority of the staff in DC. Let's be real, you're not
• 2:27:42
  America first. If you were, you would care
• 2:27:44
  about Americans rights, seeing as how you don't want colored
• 2:27:48
  people here and you don't want women to have voting rights.
• 2:27:51
  You only care about 25 to 30% of the population simply based off
• 2:27:55
  biology. And of those 30%, about half are
• 2:27:59
  liberal Americans. So that brings it down to 15%.
• 2:28:02
  And of those 15%, approximately only 1% hold a favorable view of
• 2:28:07
  Nick Fuentes, bringing it down to 0.15%.
• 2:28:11
  This show is certainly not America First.
• 2:28:14
  You're absolutely retarded. All right so let's break down
• 2:28:17
  your retarded as comment saying I don't want colored people
• 2:28:21
  here. Never said that.
• 2:28:22
  I said the country should be majority white, which it should.
• 2:28:25
  Saying I don't want women to have voting rights is not about
• 2:28:28
  not liking or disrespecting women.
• 2:28:31
  It's about the fact that women through look through everything
• 2:28:33
  through a micro lens while men actually look at bigger picture
• 2:28:37
  problems and everything through a macro lens.
• 2:28:39
  Women are too emotionally involved that's why I
• 2:28:41
  questioned. Jamie, are you a bitch because
• 2:28:43
  you look at everything through a micro lens?
• 2:28:46
  You don't understand generalizations.
• 2:28:48
  You have 0 critical thinking skills.
• 2:28:51
  So that's how I come to the conclusion that you're a woman.
• 2:28:57
  Saying like I don't care about liberals, just say disagree with
• 2:29:02
  them doesn't mean I don't see them as Americans.
• 2:29:04
  Again, you are just kind of retarded.
• 2:29:09
  Italians and Irish building this country didn't stop them from
• 2:29:12
  suffering discrimination in the South.
• 2:29:14
  There literally were areas that said for white Anglo-Saxon
• 2:29:17
  Protestants only. My point, they were treated very
• 2:29:19
  similarly to the way some people want to treat all immigrants
• 2:29:23
  now. Have you heard of the Know
• 2:29:24
  nothing party? It was an Anglo Protestant
• 2:29:26
  nationalist group which viewed immigrants from Europe is not
• 2:29:29
  white enough. The difference is they
• 2:29:32
  contributed to society, they assimilated, they were of the
• 2:29:36
  founding stock because the founding stock of the of the
• 2:29:39
  country was mainly European, very different than the
• 2:29:46
  immigrants of today who come in don't have any responsibility to
• 2:29:50
  learn English. We again, you also have to look
• 2:29:53
  at it as like the nation was still building in those time
• 2:29:56
  periods versus now we have a nation that's built and we have
• 2:30:00
  systems that are already overwhelmed.
• 2:30:01
  We have generations in America that are struggling, but instead
• 2:30:04
  of being like, oh, like let's help the American citizens, you
• 2:30:07
  guys want to fucking suck the Dick of every immigrant.
• 2:30:09
  And it's like, no. But no, they are all white.
• 2:30:13
  OK sick. Like dude who fucking cares.
• 2:30:15
  Like your comments are just getting to me at this point.
• 2:30:18
  I saw the video in someone else's account.
• 2:30:20
  I thought they got it from the Candace Can't Read 1.
• 2:30:23
  I don't. Know what you're talking about?
• 2:30:24
  I never did that to my beard. Dear just gave him you never
• 2:30:30
  shaved a Hitler when you were shaving your beard.
• 2:30:32
  Gay. This guy commented so many
• 2:30:41
  fucking links today. I can't do the links today,
• 2:30:43
  sorry. And buddy, if you wanted to keep
• 2:30:47
  the original stock of this country then you would need to
• 2:30:50
  leave. The original stock was
• 2:30:51
  predominantly English Protestant men and women.
• 2:30:54
  You are an Italian Greek Catholic man.
• 2:30:57
  The founding stock of this country is of European white
• 2:31:01
  heritage you fucking moron. Like seriously dude?
• 2:31:06
  Like this is what I mean. You are actually retarded.
• 2:31:11
  Names. You don't even respect your own
• 2:31:13
  religious book but use it when it helps you prove your point.
• 2:31:16
  The Bible literally says to treat foreigners as native born
• 2:31:20
  people yet you completely overlook that because it
• 2:31:22
  contradicts everything you believe in.
• 2:31:25
  So please stop using the Bible or Christianity to justify
• 2:31:28
  things when you ignore parts of it self.
• 2:31:30
  Listening to sometimes the Bible also respects borders you
• 2:31:34
  fucking idiot. Shut the fuck up.
• 2:31:36
  And again we listen to the Pope who respects borders as well.
• 2:31:43
  The only argument you can make for like Christianity,
• 2:31:46
  Catholicism verse how we handle immigration is like the hype
• 2:31:50
  edits that Trump makes. That's the only legitimate
• 2:31:53
  argument you can make. Saying those aren't Christ like
• 2:31:55
  but every other argument you've made is literally retarded
• 2:31:59
  level. This is why I said in the last
• 2:32:03
  episode I don't respect Jamin because he actually is like a
• 2:32:07
  retard. Like literally retarded.
• 2:32:09
  All right, And this is the last comment we have.
• 2:32:13
  Brittany definitely isn't wiffy material, she just has a playful
• 2:32:16
  personality TBH. By the way, she had sex with
• 2:32:19
  Destiny a while back. Yeah, damn.
• 2:32:23
  Damn guys, looks like we're not marrying Brittany.
• 2:32:28
  Can't clean up after Destiny. Sorry.
• 2:32:30
  Can't do it, dude, I crashed out on some people in the comments
• 2:32:35
  today. Forgive me.
• 2:32:36
  I don't give a shit if you do actually, but it's like you guys
• 2:32:40
  got to realize you can't. You can't ask like bullshit
• 2:32:43
  hypotheticals. You can't like explain things
• 2:32:47
  being like, oh, you're not Christian because you don't want
• 2:32:50
  immigrants here. It's like okay that those things
• 2:32:53
  don't go together like that. Like that's just being a retard,
• 2:32:57
  that thought process. You can't look at everything
• 2:32:59
  through a micro lens. You can't look at everything
• 2:33:01
  like you're a woman. You you claim to be a man.
• 2:33:04
  Act like 1 and think like 1 critically think, use your
• 2:33:08
  brain, understand things on bigger lenses like you.
• 2:33:14
  You fail to see the reality of the world we live in.
• 2:33:16
  You fail to see the problems of the country.
• 2:33:19
  And you look at everything through like, is this me?
• 2:33:21
  And is this not, not is this productive?
• 2:33:24
  Is this not? Is this helping the people in
• 2:33:26
  this country? Like like why is it that there
• 2:33:28
  are people struggling in this country, but we're supposed to
• 2:33:31
  be thinking about people in other countries who are
• 2:33:34
  struggling? Why is it our government's duty
• 2:33:35
  to help those people along with helping us instead of just
• 2:33:39
  helping the people in our country, putting all of its
• 2:33:41
  resources towards helping its citizens?
• 2:33:44
  You're not able to answer that because you don't look at things
• 2:33:48
  through that lens. You only look at things through
• 2:33:51
  like, oh, this person's racist saying majority white is racist.
• 2:33:55
  No, you're just a bitch. You're just a bitch.
• 2:33:57
  And you're like, it wouldn't even mean that it's you wouldn't
• 2:34:01
  even be allowed to be in the country because you're not
• 2:34:03
  English. It's like, dude, European
• 2:34:06
  heritage you dumb fuck. Like, come on, It really fucking
• 2:34:13
  annoys the shit out of me. It really does.
• 2:34:20
  Like all your comments today, Jamie, and we're literally
• 2:34:23
  retarded. You sound like a little girl
• 2:34:25
  whining. Like every time I was hearing
• 2:34:27
  your comments, all I hear is like a little woman whining.
• 2:34:29
  And it's like, OK, like this is the type of person I want to
• 2:34:32
  fucking smack. Like shut the fuck up sometimes.
• 2:34:36
  Like learn what's a good question and what's not.
• 2:34:40
  Like maybe go workshop your questions with Chat GPTI don't
• 2:34:43
  know what the fuck to tell you. And like you also just don't
• 2:34:45
  understand generalizations. If I say immigrants are bad for
• 2:34:48
  the United States, I'm not saying that every single
• 2:34:51
  individual immigrants going to have a negative impact.
• 2:34:54
  I'm not saying that like Elon Musk and I'm not saying like
• 2:34:57
  every spit and like Sergio Brent, like I'm not saying all
• 2:35:00
  these guys will have a negative impact.
• 2:35:03
  I'm saying that immigration as a whole is not good for the United
• 2:35:05
  States. And you not being able to
• 2:35:07
  understand that just shows me that you have a lower IQ.
• 2:35:10
  That is literally part of part of the process is understanding.
• 2:35:14
  If you could look at things through that lens, if you're
• 2:35:17
  able to generalize, if you're able to understand
• 2:35:19
  generalizations, but you can't. So again, shut the fuck up.
• 2:35:25
  That's my fucking rant to you, Jamin.
• 2:35:27
  You're you're a good kid. I hope you eventually can get
• 2:35:31
  your head out of your ass, but it's like you gotta, you gotta
• 2:35:35
  use your brain for something positive and not to be this like
• 2:35:38
  white knighting retard. So fucking annoying.
• 2:35:42
  It's like it's it's like, do you think you're going to go get
• 2:35:45
  pussy because you're like, Oh, you don't like the right to
• 2:35:48
  women a vote? Like dude, no one's going to
• 2:35:50
  read that and be like, Oh, I'm fucking drenched right now.
• 2:35:53
  No, they're going to read and be like, who is this fucking loser?
• 2:35:56
  Like dude, why do you as a man think women should vote?
• 2:35:58
  Besides saying equality, Besides saying equality, why should
• 2:36:02
  women vote? How does it benefit America?
• 2:36:07
  I would love to hear your answer on that and I'll debate you on
• 2:36:10
  that tomorrow. That's going to be the show for
• 2:36:13
  the day. I'm going to wrap it up.
• 2:36:14
  I'm just going to keep fucking crashing out on this kid.
• 2:36:17
  And I'm I'm not, I don't know what's going on.
• 2:36:18
  I'm not feeling great tomorrow we're going to be doing the
• 2:36:21
  Epstein files, possibly Wednesday depending on how many
• 2:36:24
  we get through. Should be a fun time.
• 2:36:25
  That was a good interview we listened to.
• 2:36:28
  Feels like a century ago now, but I'm going to sign off for
• 2:36:30
  the day. Hope you guys have a great
• 2:36:32
  night. Hope you guys have a blessed
• 2:36:33
  day. Remember to like smash the
• 2:36:34
  follow button. Leave a comment.
• 2:36:35
  Let me know what you think about the show.
• 2:36:37
  All the comments will be read at the end of tomorrow's show.
• 2:36:40
  Join our Telegram channel, scan the code up in the corner.
• 2:36:43
  Stay updated on all things American filter.
• 2:36:45
  Follow me on X, follow me on Instagram, sub on YouTube,
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  follow me on Kik. But with that, we're going to
• 2:36:50
  sign off. Thank you guys, OB guys, have a
• 2:36:52
  great night and I will see you guys tomorrow on Tuesday.