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Connie Smith Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

0:32
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two
0:35
Speaker 1: of our series about the disappearance of Connie Smith. Robin,
0:39
Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on what we
0:40
Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode?
0:43
Speaker 2: Well, the victim of this Connie Smith, she went missing
0:46
Speaker 2: in Salisbury, Connecticut in July of nineteen fifty two. She
0:49
Speaker 2: was only ten years old and hailed from a very
0:52
Speaker 2: prominent family, as her paternal grandfather had once been the
0:55
Speaker 2: governor of Wyoming, and this was her first time at
0:58
Speaker 2: summer camp away from her family, because she mostly used
1:01
Speaker 2: to spend time on their family's ranch, and this was
1:04
Speaker 2: her first time hanging out with other kids. And while
1:06
Speaker 2: this has never been confirmed, there have been rumors that
1:09
Speaker 2: maybe she was bullied or tormented because she suffered a
1:13
Speaker 2: few injuries before she went missing, and while the cover
1:16
Speaker 2: stories that they were accidents, there's been speculation that she
1:20
Speaker 2: was not getting along well with the other kids at
1:22
Speaker 2: camp and maybe got so upset that she wanted to
1:25
Speaker 2: go home and contact her parents. Because the morning she
1:28
Speaker 2: went missing, while all the other campers were going to breakfast,
1:31
Speaker 2: Connie just decided to leave the campground and a whole
1:34
Speaker 2: bunch of witnesses saw her walking alone down a road
1:36
Speaker 2: towards the nearest town, but before she arrived there, she
1:39
Speaker 2: just vanished without a trace, and the most logical explanation
1:43
Speaker 2: is that she may have been picked up with someone
1:45
Speaker 2: who harmed her. But she has not been seen since,
1:47
Speaker 2: and while they have looked at a number of potential
1:50
Speaker 2: suspects over the years, they haven't found any evidence implicating anyone.
1:54
Speaker 2: Many years later, there would be a promising lead when
1:57
Speaker 2: the authorities got an anonymous letter that Connie was a
2:00
Speaker 2: unidentified child known only as Little Miss X, whose skeleton
2:04
Speaker 2: remains have been found in Arizona in nineteen fifty eight.
2:08
Speaker 2: They compared dental records at the time and were inclined
2:11
Speaker 2: to believe that it wasn't Connie, but there's been speculation
2:14
Speaker 2: that the dental testing back then was flawed, so they
2:17
Speaker 2: wanted to do DNA testing, But unfortunately, little Miss X
2:21
Speaker 2: is buried somewhere, and because records weren't kept, they don't
2:24
Speaker 2: know the exact spot she's buried at, so they've been
2:27
Speaker 2: unable to exhume her to do the DNA comparison. So unfortunately,
2:31
Speaker 2: after over seventy years, Connie is still a missing person
2:35
Speaker 2: that we don't know what happened to her. So this
2:38
Speaker 2: is one of those missing persons cases where the explanation
2:41
Speaker 2: for what actually happened in the victim seems fairly obvious.
2:44
Speaker 2: Since Connie was last seen attempting a hitchhike on Route
2:47
Speaker 2: forty four, it's likely that she was picked up by
2:49
Speaker 2: an unknown person who did her harm, and unfortunately, this
2:53
Speaker 2: happened to take place during a narrow window of time
2:55
Speaker 2: when no one else was around. If Connie was taken
2:58
Speaker 2: away in a vehicle, then she could have been murdered
3:00
Speaker 2: at an entirely different location outside the search area, which
3:04
Speaker 2: is why no one ever found her. But even so,
3:07
Speaker 2: there are still a lot of unanswered questions about the
3:09
Speaker 2: circumstances of why Connie wound up in this situation to
3:13
Speaker 2: begin with, and the case also has a number of
3:15
Speaker 2: interesting side stories which may or may not be connected.
3:19
Speaker 2: In missing children's cases, it's always frustrating when the victim
3:22
Speaker 2: is last seen at a location they had no reason
3:25
Speaker 2: to be at. One of the most famous examples of
3:27
Speaker 2: this is the disappearance of Asia Degree, which we briefly
3:31
Speaker 2: talked about on our last episode, as she inexplicably left
3:34
Speaker 2: her home in the middle of the night and was
3:36
Speaker 2: last seen walking down the road by motorists before she vanished.
3:39
Speaker 2: The circumstances here are a bit similar, except that it's
3:43
Speaker 2: not hard to dream up a logical reason for why
3:45
Speaker 2: Connie may have wanted to walk away from Camp Sloane.
3:49
Speaker 2: In the preceding twelve hours or so, she suffered a
3:51
Speaker 2: bruised tip, a bloody nose, and broken eyeglasses, and while
3:55
Speaker 2: the cover story is that these incidents were purely accidental,
3:58
Speaker 2: a number of people suspect that Connie was being violently
4:01
Speaker 2: bullied and just decided that enough was enough. It's really
4:05
Speaker 2: hard to get a handle on what exactly happened to
4:07
Speaker 2: Connie before she left the camp, as almost no details
4:11
Speaker 2: have ever been released publicly about the other girls she
4:14
Speaker 2: was sharing a tent with, and that's understandable since they
4:17
Speaker 2: were all miners and deserved to have their names kept private.
4:21
Speaker 2: But it's easy to come up with reasons why there
4:23
Speaker 2: might have been some friction, especially when you consider that
4:25
Speaker 2: this was the first time Connie had ever attended summer camp,
4:29
Speaker 2: and she had probably never spent this much time away
4:31
Speaker 2: from her family before. All of these other girls came
4:34
Speaker 2: from the big city, whereas Connie came from a wealthy,
4:37
Speaker 2: privileged family who lived on her large ranch, and she
4:40
Speaker 2: had a more tom boyish personality. You also have to
4:44
Speaker 2: factor in that Conyie was quite tall for her age
4:46
Speaker 2: and had developed earlier than normal at age ten, So
4:49
Speaker 2: you can see why she might have been an ideal
4:51
Speaker 2: target for a group of bullying mean girls.
4:55
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I could absolutely see that.
4:57
Speaker 4: And I could see where as a young girl who's
4:59
Speaker 4: never been really a from your family and you're with
5:01
Speaker 4: kiddos that don't have a whole lot of similarities with you,
5:04
Speaker 4: feeling like the odd one out. You're more tomboyish, you
5:07
Speaker 4: come from a different ranching style, not the big city,
5:10
Speaker 4: And so I could see that kind of mean girl
5:13
Speaker 4: mentality where she might be the target of kid's abuse.
5:16
Speaker 4: I also could see where there's a chance that maybe
5:19
Speaker 4: there's a young counselor or something there who gets into
5:22
Speaker 4: an altercation with her. You know, they always have things
5:25
Speaker 4: like junior counselors and kids that are fifteen sixteen helping
5:28
Speaker 4: to lead a troop, and so who knows if there
5:31
Speaker 4: was an issue like that, or even worse, an adult
5:34
Speaker 4: who could have been targeting.
5:35
Speaker 3: Connie as well.
5:37
Speaker 4: But it's it's really interesting because if you remember us talking,
5:40
Speaker 4: she had had visit from family members and talked about
5:43
Speaker 4: actually wanting to stay longer.
5:45
Speaker 3: So what's really.
5:46
Speaker 4: Sad is it it sounds like this almost took a
5:49
Speaker 4: really sudden turn for her where I feel like, had
5:52
Speaker 4: she been a target, had she been bullied, especially physically hurt,
5:56
Speaker 4: when her family visited, I don't think she'd be asking
5:58
Speaker 4: to stay longer. I think she'd be like you to
6:00
Speaker 4: get me out of here. But she wanted to stay.
6:02
Speaker 2: More, yeah, exactly, which makes me wonder if something bad
6:06
Speaker 2: didn't happen until after her visit from her family. And
6:09
Speaker 2: it is kind of a shame that none of these
6:11
Speaker 2: other kids have spoken out publicly about their experiences with Connie.
6:15
Speaker 2: I mean, at the time, obviously, because they were miners,
6:18
Speaker 2: they wanted to keep their identity secret. But I've kind
6:20
Speaker 2: of hoped that as the years went on and they
6:22
Speaker 2: became adults, more of them would have opened up and
6:24
Speaker 2: confirmed that, yes, Connie was being treated badly or so
6:28
Speaker 2: and so did this to her. But surprisingly they'd been
6:30
Speaker 2: silent about it. So that's why I'm not willing to
6:34
Speaker 2: rule out the possibility that maybe she was being tormented
6:37
Speaker 2: by an adult, that maybe someone who worked for the
6:40
Speaker 2: camp may have been molesting her or something, and that's
6:42
Speaker 2: what caused her to run away. And because the predator
6:45
Speaker 2: was the only one who knew about this, that's why
6:47
Speaker 2: no one has ever found out about it.
6:50
Speaker 1: It's interesting how Connie gave her mother and grandmother the
6:53
Speaker 1: impression that she was having such a great time at camp.
6:56
Speaker 1: It is possible that she was just putting on a
6:58
Speaker 1: happy face to worrying them, particularly since Connie was reportedly
7:04
Speaker 1: seen crying right after they left during their last visit.
7:07
Speaker 1: And of course, Alice Walsh, one of the last witnesses
7:10
Speaker 1: to see Connie on the morning she disappeared, would report
7:14
Speaker 1: that Connie appeared to have been crying when she gave
7:16
Speaker 1: her directions to Lakeville. If Connie's eyeglasses were broken intentionally
7:21
Speaker 1: by her tent mates, then I'm guessing this was her
7:24
Speaker 1: breaking point, since it sounds like she could barely see
7:27
Speaker 1: anything at all without them. Since the kids were discouraged
7:31
Speaker 1: from using the telephone at camp, it seems pretty believable
7:34
Speaker 1: that Connie was heading into Lakeville in order to find
7:37
Speaker 1: a payphone to call her mother and planned to ask
7:40
Speaker 1: her to come pick her up and take her home.
7:42
Speaker 1: But I also could not overlook the fact that Connie
7:45
Speaker 1: was only about a half mile outside of Lakeville when
7:48
Speaker 1: she was seen sticking out her thumb, and given that
7:50
Speaker 1: she had already walked nearly a mile and a half
7:53
Speaker 1: by this point, it's a bit odd that she would
7:55
Speaker 1: elect a hitchhike when she was such a short distance away. Furthermore,
8:00
Speaker 1: she knocked on Alice Walsh's front door to ask for
8:02
Speaker 1: directions to Lakeville, So if Connie was planning to call
8:06
Speaker 1: her mother, she could have conceivably asked whal she used
8:09
Speaker 1: her phone, rather than finding a payphone in town. This
8:13
Speaker 1: is what makes me wonder if perhaps Connie was hitchhiking
8:16
Speaker 1: in hopes that somebody would give her a ride to
8:18
Speaker 1: her grandmother's house in Greenwich, as it was located about
8:21
Speaker 1: eighty miles south and her mother was spending the summer there.
8:25
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Connie did leave all her
8:27
Speaker 1: extra clothing and belongings behind the camp, which seems to
8:31
Speaker 1: indicate that she was planning to return at some point.
8:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the part that's really sad, because you think
8:39
Speaker 4: about her trip to Alice Walsh's house. And so, like
8:42
Speaker 4: you said, why not just ask to use her home phone?
8:46
Speaker 3: Why would you continue to walk?
8:47
Speaker 4: You had the confidence to go and knock on Alice
8:50
Speaker 4: Walsh's front door, why not just say can you help me?
8:53
Speaker 3: Can you help me? Call my mom?
8:55
Speaker 4: I'm wondering, I'm wondering why why was she so set
9:00
Speaker 4: on this location that she needed to go to that
9:02
Speaker 4: was not convenient? It was not something we know her
9:04
Speaker 4: to be familiar with, and it was such a determined
9:07
Speaker 4: point it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's
9:10
Speaker 4: almost like, if it was not a modern case, I'd
9:12
Speaker 4: say it had someone connected with her own technology and
9:15
Speaker 4: said meet me there. But this is an older case
9:18
Speaker 4: that didn't happen in this one. So why why was
9:21
Speaker 4: it that she needed to get to Lakesville?
9:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a big mystery. I mean, I have
9:25
Speaker 2: thought about the possibility that if she was being groomed
9:27
Speaker 2: by an adult, perhaps this person said leave the campgrounds
9:31
Speaker 2: and meet me in Lakeville. But they checked with all
9:33
Speaker 2: the witnesses there and no one recalled seeing her in
9:36
Speaker 2: the town that morning, So it does seem clear that
9:38
Speaker 2: something happened before she arrived. So you're thinking, if there
9:42
Speaker 2: was some predator who was grooming her, why would they
9:44
Speaker 2: pick her up before she even arrived in town unless
9:47
Speaker 2: they wanted to do something to her before she was
9:50
Speaker 2: seen by any more witnesses.
9:52
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. If you're going to
9:54
Speaker 1: pick her up on the side of the road with
9:55
Speaker 1: the least amount of eyeballs on her, you've got less
9:58
Speaker 1: chance than any eye with seeing her once you go to town.
10:02
Speaker 1: I don't know how big the town was, but it
10:04
Speaker 1: sounds like you could then interact with a lot of
10:07
Speaker 1: these people. They could see your face, and then your
10:10
Speaker 1: chance of being identified as being the last person with
10:12
Speaker 1: her would kind of go up exponentially.
10:17
Speaker 2: Now I should mention that there's been speculation that Camp
10:20
Speaker 2: Sloane orchestrated some sort of cover up, especially since the
10:23
Speaker 2: camp director, Ernest Roberts, had a bit of a shady history.
10:28
Speaker 2: The camp was once implicated in a scandal when an
10:30
Speaker 2: eleven year old boy died there in nineteen forty after
10:34
Speaker 2: contracting septocemia. It turned out the camp's doctor at the
10:38
Speaker 2: time was not licensed to practice medicine, and since Roberts
10:41
Speaker 2: knew about this, he was arrested and received a fine
10:44
Speaker 2: in spite of this. Roberts was still working against the
10:47
Speaker 2: camp's director in nineteen fifty two and known for being
10:50
Speaker 2: very protective of his camp's image. Since Connie was first
10:54
Speaker 2: noticed to be missing at around eight forty five and
10:56
Speaker 2: Roberts did not notify the police for nearly three hours,
11:00
Speaker 2: I've seen presented is that Connie's bullying at the hands
11:03
Speaker 2: of her tent mates escalated so out of control that
11:06
Speaker 2: she wound up dead and everyone involved covered the whole
11:09
Speaker 2: thing up by hiding her body. But I don't find
11:11
Speaker 2: this likely at all. We have no fewer than nine
11:14
Speaker 2: eye witnesses placing Knnie outside Camp Sloan on Indian Mountain
11:18
Speaker 2: Road and Route forty four at the exact same time
11:21
Speaker 2: the other campers would have been at the mess hall
11:23
Speaker 2: having breakfast, so she clearly left of her own volition.
11:27
Speaker 2: While Connie's tentmates may have done something to compel her
11:29
Speaker 2: to walk away from the campground, they clearly had no
11:32
Speaker 2: involvement in her actual disappearance. Another theory I've seen pushed
11:36
Speaker 2: forward is that Connie was being molested by someone who
11:39
Speaker 2: worked at the camp, which is why she appeared to
11:41
Speaker 2: be so upset. That morning. Of course, that's certainly not impossible,
11:45
Speaker 2: but no evidence was ever found to support this theory.
11:49
Speaker 4: I've mentioned that already. I think it is a possibility.
11:52
Speaker 4: I think again, it could be an older camper. I
11:54
Speaker 4: think it could be an older youth helper because I
11:58
Speaker 4: remember I remember being fish teen in charge of kids
12:01
Speaker 4: at a summer camp, right, And it could be also.
12:03
Speaker 4: And remember she looks older than she is, So if
12:06
Speaker 4: a fifteen year old camp counselor thought she was thirteen,
12:10
Speaker 4: you know, is that is that something that could have
12:13
Speaker 4: been happening? And then you have the chance that maybe
12:16
Speaker 4: there's an adult employee at the camp.
12:18
Speaker 3: Now. To get away again, all you got to do is.
12:21
Speaker 4: Get off that campground and get to somebody, and she
12:24
Speaker 4: did that multiple times she was seen.
12:27
Speaker 3: But again, this is a ten year old.
12:29
Speaker 4: So I'm thinking, Okay, kiddo, get off the property, get
12:33
Speaker 4: to someone who's safe, who's not related to the camp,
12:35
Speaker 4: and ask for help. But at ten, does she have
12:38
Speaker 4: a safe person in Lakesville? Does she have a place
12:42
Speaker 4: they went on a field trip with camp, and she
12:44
Speaker 4: knows if I could just get back to that ice
12:46
Speaker 4: cream shop, if I could just get back to this place,
12:48
Speaker 4: I could call my mom. You know, I got to
12:51
Speaker 4: remind myself, this is a ten year old, so all
12:53
Speaker 4: of the times I go, why didn't you just tell
12:55
Speaker 4: someone or ask for help? We don't know what she
12:59
Speaker 4: was thinking in the of a child.
13:01
Speaker 1: I wish we knew more about the staff too. Like
13:03
Speaker 1: I can think back to I went to Bible camp
13:06
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid till from like I
13:08
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe six until the age of ten, and
13:11
Speaker 1: the last year that I went there, so I would
13:13
Speaker 1: have been the same age. I remember being in love
13:16
Speaker 1: with this camp counselor all the girls were. He was
13:19
Speaker 1: about sixteen, and everybody called him mister Jeff. And so
13:22
Speaker 1: I could see a situation or a scenario where somebody
13:26
Speaker 1: who all these young girls think is super attractive, but
13:30
Speaker 1: their children and that older individual could potentially groom them.
13:35
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a scenario like that. So I can totally
13:38
Speaker 1: see what you're saying, Ash, that makes complete sense. And
13:42
Speaker 1: I could see a scenario where something happened and she
13:44
Speaker 1: wasn't happy about it, and so she needed to get
13:47
Speaker 1: off the grounds of the camp in order to seek help.
13:50
Speaker 1: But she didn't feel safe calling from there, and she
13:53
Speaker 1: needed to get that physical distance in order to feel safe.
13:57
Speaker 2: That would make sense, Like it's never been specified if
14:00
Speaker 2: she had ever been to Lake Phill before. I know,
14:02
Speaker 2: ashe mentioned the possibility of a field trip, but I
14:05
Speaker 2: don't know if they ever did that. So since she
14:08
Speaker 2: had to stop past for directions, she probably was not
14:10
Speaker 2: familiar with the area and maybe didn't know anyone was there.
14:14
Speaker 2: But it could be, like you said, a thing where
14:16
Speaker 2: she was upset because this older tamp counselor she had
14:20
Speaker 2: a crush on was not interested in her. So she
14:22
Speaker 2: just decided she had to leave the campground and go anywhere,
14:26
Speaker 2: and it didn't really matter where.
14:27
Speaker 3: It was, yeah, or was he interested in her?
14:30
Speaker 4: And it went, it went, you know, quickly became a
14:33
Speaker 4: physical thing, and she became uncomfortable and said, what just happened?
14:36
Speaker 3: You know?
14:37
Speaker 4: And again think about the time. This is back in
14:40
Speaker 4: the fifties, and so they're not going to be able
14:42
Speaker 4: to understand, no talk about any kind of inappropriate behavior
14:47
Speaker 4: because it was very hush hush, you didn't talk about it,
14:50
Speaker 4: and if you did talk about it, it was your fault.
14:51
Speaker 4: And so I could see here if she was like, oh,
14:55
Speaker 4: I love mister Jeff, he's so cute, and then mister
14:58
Speaker 4: Jeff says, ooh, I think you're cute too, Connie, And
15:01
Speaker 4: all of a sudden it goes from sweet to scary
15:03
Speaker 4: and then too dangerous and then to hurtful. I could
15:06
Speaker 4: see her really not knowing what else to do. I
15:09
Speaker 4: just have to get away. And so back then, remember
15:12
Speaker 4: she couldn't say, hey, this man just hurt me. This
15:15
Speaker 4: man made me feel uncomfortable. She would have never even
15:17
Speaker 4: heard what it means to be hurt by an adult. Right,
15:20
Speaker 4: all adults were trusted. You listen to your elders, You
15:23
Speaker 4: didn't talk back, you didn't talk bad about adults. So
15:27
Speaker 4: very very different times she was living in too.
15:29
Speaker 1: I totally get that. And I'm gonna share a story
15:31
Speaker 1: with you guys. That is like the creepiest story about
15:34
Speaker 1: my former neighbor who I was in love with. I
15:37
Speaker 1: was twelve years old, if he lived next door to
15:40
Speaker 1: my parents. He was in his last year of university,
15:43
Speaker 1: and I thought he was so smart and so hot.
15:46
Speaker 1: And I remember I would sit out in the summer
15:49
Speaker 1: and I would read books on the patio so that
15:51
Speaker 1: I could see him. He would lend me his books
15:54
Speaker 1: and we would talk about books because something we were
15:57
Speaker 1: both interested in. And then one day he invited me
16:00
Speaker 1: over to go like look at his library or whatever,
16:03
Speaker 1: and he was this I think he was twenty one
16:06
Speaker 1: at the time. I was twelve. He tried to hook
16:09
Speaker 1: up with me, and I remember just being like, oh
16:11
Speaker 1: my god, I'm in love with him, but like, I'm
16:13
Speaker 1: not ready for this. What is happening. This is wrong,
16:16
Speaker 1: and I ran away and I never thought out on
16:18
Speaker 1: my patio again. But you can see how a scenario
16:21
Speaker 1: with somebody who's older, they can manipulate a situation and
16:26
Speaker 1: they could potentially have put Connie in a situation that
16:29
Speaker 1: she just wasn't ready for and that no child should
16:31
Speaker 1: have been put in in the first place.
16:34
Speaker 2: That's very creepy. Do you know whatever happened to that guy?
16:36
Speaker 2: Did he ever get in trouble with the law?
16:38
Speaker 1: I have no idea. But the funny thing is his
16:41
Speaker 1: mom used to be my second grade teacher, and she
16:44
Speaker 1: used to be the mayor of where I grew up.
16:46
Speaker 1: So I was one of those weird things where like
16:49
Speaker 1: I literally never told anybody, because I don't think I've
16:52
Speaker 1: ever told anybody this story so weird that I just
16:55
Speaker 1: said it. This podcast yeah, it just it just triggered
16:59
Speaker 1: that memory for me. It wasn't like he was forceful
17:02
Speaker 1: or like whatever, But it's just the whole idea that
17:05
Speaker 1: a twenty one year old is going to try to
17:07
Speaker 1: make a move sexually on a child is just creepy
17:11
Speaker 1: enough as it is without any force being applied.
17:14
Speaker 4: I'm so thankful as a mother because Jewels, you're not alone.
17:17
Speaker 4: Thank you for sharing that. That's scary, but I mean,
17:19
Speaker 4: it happened, and so you're not alone. I mean I
17:22
Speaker 4: can think back to many inappropriate age gap relationships that
17:26
Speaker 4: I had. They didn't go anywhere, right, there was no
17:29
Speaker 4: physical movement, but there was definitely emotional grooming. And so
17:32
Speaker 4: I talk so openly with Reagan and my other baby.
17:36
Speaker 4: I talk so openly about hey, this is what is real, right,
17:41
Speaker 4: this is what is safe conversation with an adult. You
17:44
Speaker 4: are never to be viewed as super special where you
17:47
Speaker 4: need alone time with them, right, There's no reason that
17:50
Speaker 4: you need extra training with them alone, none of this.
17:53
Speaker 4: Because you know you're special, but no adult needs to
17:58
Speaker 4: single you out as so special that other students couldn't
18:01
Speaker 4: be around you, right, or other people couldn't be with you,
18:03
Speaker 4: or an older boy. As much as as cute as
18:06
Speaker 4: he is, there's no reason you need to be alone
18:08
Speaker 4: with him.
18:09
Speaker 3: And here's why.
18:09
Speaker 4: And it's sad we have to have those conversations. But again,
18:13
Speaker 4: in Connie's day, they weren't having those conversations.
18:16
Speaker 1: And I think it's so important that you're having those
18:18
Speaker 1: conversations with Reagan and that you're letting her know that
18:22
Speaker 1: that is not okay, because I could see a scenario
18:25
Speaker 1: where if that went down differently for me, and pressure
18:28
Speaker 1: was applied and force was used, that there would be
18:31
Speaker 1: that guilt and that shame and you wouldn't feel comfortable.
18:34
Speaker 1: It would be like I was in love with him.
18:36
Speaker 1: I did ABC and D, so maybe I was asking
18:40
Speaker 1: for it would have been the way that my twelve
18:42
Speaker 1: year old brain likely would have processed that. So I'm
18:45
Speaker 1: glad that nothing happened, but I'm so happy that today
18:48
Speaker 1: these conversations are being had with young girls and young women,
18:53
Speaker 1: that there are these people out here who will try
18:56
Speaker 1: to take advantage of you, and it can look like love,
19:00
Speaker 1: but it definitely isn't that. The fact of the matter
19:05
Speaker 1: is that the last confirmed sighting of Connie occurred on
19:08
Speaker 1: Route forty four, a half mile outside of Lakeville at
19:11
Speaker 1: eight forty five am. Even though the village was a
19:14
Speaker 1: pretty busy place at that time of the morning because
19:17
Speaker 1: a number of people were opening up their businesses, none
19:20
Speaker 1: of them remembered seeing Connie, so it's very likely that
19:23
Speaker 1: an unknown motorist picked up Connie before she made it
19:26
Speaker 1: to Lakeville. Another sad detail about this case is that
19:30
Speaker 1: many of the witnesses who saw or interacted with Connie
19:33
Speaker 1: after she left the camp that morning have expressed regret
19:37
Speaker 1: that they didn't do more to assist her. They pretty
19:39
Speaker 1: much all mistakenly assumed that Connie was a teenager and
19:42
Speaker 1: were genuinely surprised to learn that she was only ten
19:45
Speaker 1: years old. It probably should have been a major warning
19:49
Speaker 1: sign to see a ten year old hitchhiking, but from
19:52
Speaker 1: a brief glance at her, the witnesses probably thought she
19:55
Speaker 1: was old enough to fend for herself. You also have
19:58
Speaker 1: to remember that nineteen fift was simply a much different time,
20:02
Speaker 1: and a young girl being abducted or murdered while walking
20:05
Speaker 1: alone down a country road on a sunny morning was
20:08
Speaker 1: just not a thought which popped into most people's heads
20:11
Speaker 1: back then. Whatever happened, it sounds like there is no
20:15
Speaker 1: lack of effort to find Connie, and I imagine that
20:18
Speaker 1: if a disappearance like this took place today involving a
20:21
Speaker 1: girl from an affluent family whose grandfather was a former governor,
20:25
Speaker 1: it would be all over the media NonStop. Since Connie's
20:29
Speaker 1: parents were divorced during a time period, but that sort
20:32
Speaker 1: of thing was a lot more uncommon. There was some
20:35
Speaker 1: initial speculation that one parent may have kidnap Connie to
20:39
Speaker 1: keep her away from the other, but that theory doesn't
20:42
Speaker 1: make sense at all, since the Smith's divorce was pretty amicable,
20:46
Speaker 1: as both parents got to live on the same property
20:48
Speaker 1: and see Connie whenever they wanted. The ransom kidnapping theory
20:53
Speaker 1: also doesn't work, as it's very unlikely that anyone could
20:56
Speaker 1: have predicted Connie would leave the camp and be walking
20:59
Speaker 1: down the road alone on that particular morning.
21:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
21:04
Speaker 4: At first, I had asked, is there any chance that
21:06
Speaker 4: someone knew she was the governor's daughter and that you know,
21:09
Speaker 4: her granddaughter, and that you know, maybe she was going
21:12
Speaker 4: to be at this camp. But again, how the heck
21:14
Speaker 4: would they even know she had left the camp? All
21:16
Speaker 4: of these things just don't line up, and so it's
21:18
Speaker 4: either one of two things. To me. Somebody had told
21:21
Speaker 4: her you need to meet me in Lakeville, and it's
21:23
Speaker 4: an adult or an older person grooming her. You meet
21:26
Speaker 4: me there, I'm going to take you away. I'm gonna
21:28
Speaker 4: rescue you from this right, making her some kind of promise.
21:31
Speaker 4: I'll help you get home to your family. Whatever it is,
21:33
Speaker 4: someone's told her to go, or she's just set off
21:37
Speaker 4: ready to go. She doesn't have anyone she's meeting. She
21:39
Speaker 4: just has a goal to get to Lakeville and then
21:42
Speaker 4: has some other plan and she's abducted by an opportunistic
21:45
Speaker 4: offender and predator. I think the second one I don't know.
21:49
Speaker 3: I don't know.
21:49
Speaker 4: I'm torn between those two. But go back to what
21:53
Speaker 4: you said just a second ago, when you said many
21:56
Speaker 4: of these people either expressed or surely fell.
22:00
Speaker 3: Like they had failed, Connie.
22:02
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, oh my lord, even with the information
22:04
Speaker 4: that I have today, there have been times as a woman,
22:09
Speaker 4: a mother, a sister, a daughter, that I've seen things
22:13
Speaker 4: and it's eaten me alive that i didn't say something.
22:16
Speaker 4: And then there's times that I've said something and I've
22:17
Speaker 4: looked like an absolute lunatic and so even today, having
22:21
Speaker 4: all this knowledge and being someone who's very aware of
22:26
Speaker 4: the realities of criminal behavior and victimization and things like that,
22:30
Speaker 4: I struggle to say, Hey, I'm going to do something
22:33
Speaker 4: more here, right, I'm going to make an assumption that
22:37
Speaker 4: something bad is going on here, and I'm going to
22:39
Speaker 4: say something.
22:41
Speaker 3: I've lost friends over it.
22:42
Speaker 4: I've separated, you know, Reagan from friends, and it's been heartbreaking.
22:47
Speaker 4: And sometimes I'm wrong and I feel like a fool.
22:51
Speaker 4: And then sometimes I don't say anything and I feel heartbroken.
22:53
Speaker 4: And so it's a hard thing now to navigate, but
22:57
Speaker 4: I do try to say things like I remember we
22:59
Speaker 4: had a little girl over and she was messaging this
23:01
Speaker 4: quote seventeen year old boy. She's like thirteen, And I
23:05
Speaker 4: called her mom and I said, we don't have a
23:07
Speaker 4: cell phone here. I don't mind that your baby has
23:09
Speaker 4: a cell phone to check in, but I wanted to
23:11
Speaker 4: know that she's supposedly messaging with an older boy. And
23:15
Speaker 4: I said, if it was me, I would want her
23:17
Speaker 4: cell phone and I would want to know who she
23:18
Speaker 4: was communicating with. Sure Enough, when that baby got home
23:21
Speaker 4: and mom got her phone, it was a twenty two
23:23
Speaker 4: year old boy who was grooming this thirteen year old child.
23:26
Speaker 4: And so you know, sometimes you say it you're right,
23:29
Speaker 4: sometimes you say it you're wrong, and sometimes you don't
23:31
Speaker 4: know how to say it. So back in the fifties,
23:33
Speaker 4: can you imagine you see this young kid crying walking
23:36
Speaker 4: down the road that you think is a teenager. We
23:38
Speaker 4: didn't talk about domestic violence, we didn't talk about sexual abuse,
23:41
Speaker 4: and we just didn't talk about trauma in general. So
23:43
Speaker 4: whatever was going on, I'm sure they said, like, that's
23:45
Speaker 4: their business, she'll figure it out and she's safe. So
23:49
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, would they feel guilt, but should they
23:52
Speaker 4: know it's it? They didn't know that something was going on,
23:55
Speaker 4: Nor did they know that they're likely was an opportunistic
23:58
Speaker 4: predator waiting around the corner.
24:01
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. Like this is not the first case
24:03
Speaker 2: I've seen involving missing children from like the nineteen forties
24:06
Speaker 2: or nineteen fifties where people just felt they should have
24:10
Speaker 2: done more where they saw a child in a situation
24:12
Speaker 2: that could have been potentially dangerous, but they just didn't
24:15
Speaker 2: think that way because it was a much more innocent time.
24:18
Speaker 2: I recently did a case about three boys who went
24:20
Speaker 2: missing from the nineteen fifties, and their parents were approached
24:23
Speaker 2: with the idea that they were allured by the child predator,
24:26
Speaker 2: and they flat out said, we had no idea that
24:28
Speaker 2: child predators or child molesters even existed back then, and
24:31
Speaker 2: the first time when they told us about it, because
24:34
Speaker 2: you just didn't learn about that stuff back in the fifties.
24:36
Speaker 2: And it's because of cases where children go missing and
24:39
Speaker 2: are harmed that they've now learned to be more cautious.
24:42
Speaker 2: This definitely seems like a crime up opportunity from a predator.
24:46
Speaker 2: So let's look at possible suspects. I guess the most
24:49
Speaker 2: prominent one is William Henry Redmond, whom we know already
24:52
Speaker 2: murdered one girl the year before Connie went missing, and
24:55
Speaker 2: allegedly confessed to killing at least three more girls which
24:58
Speaker 2: were never linked to them. Redman has been looked at
25:01
Speaker 2: as a possible suspect in numerous cold cases from the
25:04
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties involving young girls, including the unsolved nineteen fifty
25:08
Speaker 2: one disappearance of ten year old Beverly Potts, who vanished
25:11
Speaker 2: while attending a summer festival at a park in Cleveland.
25:15
Speaker 2: Redmond did have a nomadic lifestyle as a carnival worker
25:18
Speaker 2: during this time period, a profession which allowed him to
25:20
Speaker 2: travel to different states and be in the company of
25:23
Speaker 2: numerous potential victims to prey on. However, it's worth noting
25:26
Speaker 2: that by the time Connie disappeared, Redmond was already a
25:29
Speaker 2: wanted fugitive for the murder of Jane Marie Althoff, and
25:33
Speaker 2: no one could find him until he was tracked down
25:35
Speaker 2: in Nebraska over three decades later, so they'd never been
25:39
Speaker 2: able to determine if Redmond could have been in Connecticut
25:41
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty two. The only reason Redmen even popped
25:45
Speaker 2: up on the radar as a potential suspect was because
25:48
Speaker 2: of a state trooper, Leo Turkhot, remembering an odd phone
25:51
Speaker 2: call he received from a man named William Dugan who
25:54
Speaker 2: said he was a former carnival worker who had information
25:57
Speaker 2: about Connie's disappearance. It's pretty amazing that Turcott was able
26:02
Speaker 2: to remember this phone call nearly thirty three years later,
26:05
Speaker 2: so kudos to him. But other than the former carnival
26:08
Speaker 2: worker connection, there really isn't much else to suggest that
26:11
Speaker 2: Redmond might have been the mysterious William Dugan. I would
26:15
Speaker 2: not be surprised at all if Redmond really was responsible
26:18
Speaker 2: for the mergers of three other girls. But there really
26:20
Speaker 2: isn't anything to conclusively prove or disprove that he cross
26:24
Speaker 2: paths with Connie, and the connection to him is tenuous
26:27
Speaker 2: at best. It is unfortunate that Redmond was already seriously
26:31
Speaker 2: ill by the time he was arrested, as this may
26:33
Speaker 2: have prevented information about additional crimes he committed from surfcing.
26:38
Speaker 3: Oh for sure.
26:39
Speaker 4: I mean, is it possible that he was linked to this.
26:41
Speaker 4: It's possible, but I think it's a very very loose connection.
26:44
Speaker 4: It's just interesting, right, But what's really intriguing to me
26:49
Speaker 4: is that you'll hear these cases where Okay, we know
26:51
Speaker 4: that there was this known child sex predator writer, there's
26:55
Speaker 4: this known assailant that has this mo that travels from
26:59
Speaker 4: here to hear to hear. But what's the scarier reality
27:03
Speaker 4: is that there's probably ten men just like him in
27:05
Speaker 4: that town. So it's like, you know, are they abusing
27:08
Speaker 4: and then killing the kids?
27:09
Speaker 1: No?
27:10
Speaker 4: Are there people that are predating on our children in
27:13
Speaker 4: our communities?
27:14
Speaker 3: Yes?
27:15
Speaker 4: And so are there these people that we say, oh,
27:17
Speaker 4: was there any link to Connecticut? You know, how many
27:20
Speaker 4: people in Connecticut would have been prone to hurt somebody
27:26
Speaker 4: if given the opportunity. So, yes, it's possible, But my goodness,
27:30
Speaker 4: I bet there were thousands of very questionable men in
27:34
Speaker 4: that area, right in that state that they could have said, oh,
27:38
Speaker 4: we know this person's record, we know this person's record.
27:40
Speaker 4: And then I'm even more horrifying, what about the ones
27:42
Speaker 4: who have never been caught that are doing this to children?
27:45
Speaker 4: So Connie is, let's say taken and possibly killed, But
27:50
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean there weren't other children before that that
27:52
Speaker 4: were attacked and abused by this person and maybe not
27:54
Speaker 4: killed or raised such a media fuzz.
27:57
Speaker 1: It feels like Henry le Lucas, Like it isn't always
28:00
Speaker 1: Henry le.
28:01
Speaker 4: Lucas right right right where they're looking for someone who
28:04
Speaker 4: has this repetitive history.
28:06
Speaker 2: But yeah, we see that a lot in missing children's
28:08
Speaker 2: cases today, where investigators will check into the nose registered
28:12
Speaker 2: sex offenders living in the same area and then you
28:14
Speaker 2: find out, wow, that's a lot of sex offenders. I
28:17
Speaker 2: had no idea there were so many living together, that
28:20
Speaker 2: so many of them existed, And I can only imagine
28:23
Speaker 2: what it was like back then in the nineteen fifties
28:25
Speaker 2: where there was no sex offender registry. So you have
28:28
Speaker 2: a lot of people possibly living in this community who
28:31
Speaker 2: have harmed and abused children, but nobody knows about it.
28:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I challenge everybody to go look up their address.
28:37
Speaker 3: It's horrifying. I'm like, oh.
28:39
Speaker 4: Wait, what a level three offender three doors down. That's adorable.
28:43
Speaker 4: You know, it's really really scary. And sometimes it's people
28:48
Speaker 4: you would not suspect. When we listen to the news
28:50
Speaker 4: and we're watching, you go oh wow, okay, And they're
28:54
Speaker 4: quite common and now today they're recognized. Back in the fifties,
28:58
Speaker 4: they didn't even recognize that. You wouldn't have gotten punished
29:01
Speaker 4: probably if you were caught hurting children. So children were
29:04
Speaker 4: part property and the myths and misconceptions around abuse of
29:08
Speaker 4: children was very disturbing back then. So, man, this is
29:12
Speaker 4: complicated now.
29:16
Speaker 1: One lead involving a potential suspect, which turned out to
29:20
Speaker 1: be a hoax, was the confession by Frederick Pope, who
29:23
Speaker 1: claimed that he ended accomplice Jack Walker, picked up Connie
29:27
Speaker 1: hitchhiking before Walker killed her, They buried her remains, and
29:31
Speaker 1: he killed Walker in retaliation. Well, I see no reason
29:35
Speaker 1: to believe this story is true, as the red flag
29:38
Speaker 1: was his claim that Connie wanted to ride back home
29:41
Speaker 1: to Wyoming. Given that Wyoming is nearly two thousand miles
29:45
Speaker 1: away from Connecticut, I find it a lot more likely
29:48
Speaker 1: that if Connie wanted to visit her parents, she would
29:51
Speaker 1: have asked for a ride to see her mother in
29:53
Speaker 1: Greenwich instead. It became a parent that Pope completely made
29:57
Speaker 1: the story up and that this Jack Walker never existed.
30:02
Speaker 1: But the only reason we've mentioned this again is because
30:06
Speaker 1: of the fact that Pope claimed that Connie's remains were
30:08
Speaker 1: buried in Arizona. Pope's confession took place in nineteen fifty three.
30:13
Speaker 1: Little Miss X's remains were discovered in Arizona five years later,
30:18
Speaker 1: and the Connecticut State Police received an anonymous letter from
30:21
Speaker 1: Colorado claiming little Miss X was Connie in nineteen sixty two,
30:26
Speaker 1: and as far as I know, the writer of the
30:28
Speaker 1: letter has never been identified. The Arizona connection is probably
30:33
Speaker 1: nothing more than a coincidence. And I know that Connie's
30:36
Speaker 1: case received a whole bunch of false tips, but this
30:39
Speaker 1: situation is pretty odd. A bunch of ten year anniversary
30:43
Speaker 1: articles were published about Connie's case during the summer of
30:46
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, so it's probably not surprising that the
30:50
Speaker 1: police got some new leads. But how did this letter
30:53
Speaker 1: writer know about little Miss X. These days, online sleus
30:57
Speaker 1: try to match up missing people and una identified decedents
31:01
Speaker 1: all the time by looking up their profile pages at
31:03
Speaker 1: websites like the Dough Network. But this was the pre
31:06
Speaker 1: internet world of nineteen sixty two, and Arizona and Connecticut
31:10
Speaker 1: are a great distance apart. So I wonder who might
31:13
Speaker 1: have had the knowledge about both of these cases, as
31:16
Speaker 1: I don't think little Miss X got nearly as much
31:19
Speaker 1: publicity as Connie's disappearance did. So now we have to
31:23
Speaker 1: talk more about little Miss X, which is quite an
31:26
Speaker 1: interesting unsolved mystery in its own right. For starters, I'm
31:30
Speaker 1: going to express my skepticism that little Miss X and
31:33
Speaker 1: CONNYE are one and the same. I know there's been
31:35
Speaker 1: a lot of debate about whether the methods used to
31:38
Speaker 1: rule Kanye out via dental records in nineteen sixty two
31:41
Speaker 1: were accurate, but even if you ignore all that, the
31:44
Speaker 1: facts just don't fit. Little Miss X was believed to
31:47
Speaker 1: have been dead approximately nine to eighteen months before her
31:50
Speaker 1: remains were found but kanye had been missing for over
31:54
Speaker 1: six years by that point. Unless someone abducted Kanyie and
31:57
Speaker 1: was holding her in captivity for a few years before
32:00
Speaker 1: she was killed, it doesn't make sense for the remains
32:03
Speaker 1: to be her, especially when you consider that Arizona is
32:07
Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the country. But the big
32:10
Speaker 1: question is if little Miss X isn't Connie, then.
32:13
Speaker 3: Who is she?
32:15
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, So little Miss X has a family too,
32:18
Speaker 4: Little Miss X, no matter what kind of background she had,
32:21
Speaker 4: she's somebody's person. And so the fact that there was
32:25
Speaker 4: this little unidentified body there and then we're also still
32:29
Speaker 4: missing Connie is incredibly traumatic. I don't think that little
32:33
Speaker 4: Miss X and Connie are the same person. My what
32:36
Speaker 4: I would give if we could compare them now, because
32:41
Speaker 4: we do have relatives who have signed up to have
32:44
Speaker 4: DNA on file four Connie, and so if little Miss X,
32:47
Speaker 4: if we had any kind of remnants of that that
32:51
Speaker 4: little girl in her remains, then you'd be able to
32:54
Speaker 4: conclusively say, because when there's that question mark, it's a
32:57
Speaker 4: lead still. But in my mind, this is not the
33:00
Speaker 4: same person.
33:02
Speaker 2: Well, the most bizarre aspect of this case is that
33:04
Speaker 2: even though little Miss X's remains were unclothed when she
33:08
Speaker 2: was found. The clothing suddenly appeared when the scene was
33:10
Speaker 2: searched again a short time later. On the surface, it
33:14
Speaker 2: appears like the clothing was planted there, and even if
33:17
Speaker 2: you believe investigators simply missed it during the initial search,
33:21
Speaker 2: the clothes still appeared to be way too big for
33:23
Speaker 2: Little Miss X and probably did not belong to her.
33:26
Speaker 2: So now we have to sag into our third unsolved
33:29
Speaker 2: cold case on this series of episodes, and that's the
33:32
Speaker 2: disappearances of Michael Griffin and Donnis Pinky Redman. They went
33:36
Speaker 2: missing eight months before Little Miss X was found, and man,
33:40
Speaker 2: I really wish there was more information out there about
33:42
Speaker 2: this one. The only sources I could find were their
33:45
Speaker 2: profile page is at the Charlie Project and the Dough Network,
33:49
Speaker 2: which only have brief summaries and leave me with so
33:51
Speaker 2: many questions. There are good reasons to believe there might
33:54
Speaker 2: be a connection to the Little Miss X case. A
33:57
Speaker 2: nail file case with the initials p R, which possibly
34:01
Speaker 2: stood for Pinky Redmen, were found near the scene. The
34:04
Speaker 2: clothing Pinky was last seen wearing seems similar to the
34:07
Speaker 2: clothes that were there and Michael's abandoned car was discovered
34:10
Speaker 2: in the nearby town of Williams. Little Miss X's profile
34:14
Speaker 2: page of the Dough Network says that Pinky was excluded
34:17
Speaker 2: as being her, but it doesn't specify how they determined that,
34:21
Speaker 2: since they've been unable to find little Miss X's remains
34:24
Speaker 2: and extract DNA from her. But I think they probably
34:27
Speaker 2: came to that conclusion based on the fact that little
34:30
Speaker 2: Miss X had reddish brown hair and may have been Hispanic,
34:33
Speaker 2: whereas Pinky was pale skinned and had strawberry blonde hair. However,
34:37
Speaker 2: if the clothing and nail file case found near Little
34:40
Speaker 2: Miss X's murder scene did belong to Pinky, then I
34:43
Speaker 2: have to believe the cases are connected, because it would
34:46
Speaker 2: otherwise be a massive coincidence that evidence from two separate
34:50
Speaker 2: crimes would be disposed of in that same remote area.
34:54
Speaker 2: I suppose an alternate explanation is that whoever was responsible
34:57
Speaker 2: for Pinky's disappearance read about the discovery of Little Miss
35:01
Speaker 2: X in the papers and then decided to plant Pinky's
35:04
Speaker 2: items at the scene, hoping that investigators would automatically assume
35:08
Speaker 2: they belonged to little Miss X. It's possible that little
35:11
Speaker 2: Miss X, Pinky Redman, and Michael Griffin were all murdered
35:15
Speaker 2: by the same person, but since Michael was never found,
35:18
Speaker 2: for all we know, perhaps he could have killed the
35:21
Speaker 2: two females and went on the run. But without more
35:24
Speaker 2: information about Michael and Pinky's cases, I can't make any conclusions.
35:29
Speaker 2: This whole story involving Little Miss X, Pinky, and Michael
35:32
Speaker 2: is a pretty intriguing mystery within a mystery, but I
35:35
Speaker 2: ultimately feel it doesn't have any connection to Connie's disappearance.
35:40
Speaker 2: All that being said, it sounds like investigators from the
35:43
Speaker 2: Coconino County Sheriff's Office were making a concerted effort to
35:47
Speaker 2: try and find Little Miss X's burial spots and recover
35:50
Speaker 2: her remains, and I definitely hope they're successful and are
35:53
Speaker 2: able to extract some DNA. Even though I don't believe
35:56
Speaker 2: she is Connie, little Miss X is still a murdered child,
35:59
Speaker 2: was gone unclaim for nearly seventy years, and extracting your
36:03
Speaker 2: DNA will go a long way at helping her get
36:05
Speaker 2: her name back.
36:07
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, It's this sad reality that without being claimed,
36:12
Speaker 4: without having any kind of identity, she was put in
36:14
Speaker 4: this kind of community burial grave. And so to know
36:18
Speaker 4: where that exactly is, to know where her little remains
36:21
Speaker 4: exactly are and not mixed in with other peoples. It's
36:25
Speaker 4: really difficult for people to do. And so my prayer
36:28
Speaker 4: would be that they could find that and then they
36:30
Speaker 4: could say, hey, listen, we need to run this these
36:34
Speaker 4: remains through a DNA database and see what we can
36:37
Speaker 4: find and see. I don't think they're going to match
36:40
Speaker 4: Connie either, but I do wonder is there any way
36:43
Speaker 4: it could be linked back to Pinky? Is there any
36:45
Speaker 4: way we could have a connection or identify who this
36:48
Speaker 4: little girl is so that she's not in this mass
36:50
Speaker 4: burial grave, that she has her own little headstone, and
36:53
Speaker 4: that she has recognition because she had a life. And
36:56
Speaker 4: like I said, I don't care what kind of family
36:58
Speaker 4: life she had or what kind of child she had become,
37:03
Speaker 4: you know, if she had run away, if she had
37:04
Speaker 4: become a thrown away child, those kinds of things. It's
37:07
Speaker 4: still a human being who had a name, who had
37:10
Speaker 4: a story, who had a legacy right and so to
37:13
Speaker 4: have her name would be profound. But at this time
37:15
Speaker 4: it seems like a really complicated effort to get to that,
37:18
Speaker 4: And I'm wondering, with all the unsolved more recent cases,
37:22
Speaker 4: are there still people pushing for that those the case
37:26
Speaker 4: that had the p on it for maybe linking it
37:28
Speaker 4: to Pinky. It's really really interesting and when we talk
37:32
Speaker 4: about this is kind of a remote area, what's the
37:34
Speaker 4: chances that these multiple different murders are having things dumped
37:37
Speaker 4: in this site if it's the same person. There is
37:40
Speaker 4: a chance if there's one person who's disposing of all
37:44
Speaker 4: of these individuals and their things because it's a place
37:47
Speaker 4: they felt safe, it's a place that they're familiar with,
37:50
Speaker 4: and they know that it's remote. And so while it
37:53
Speaker 4: would be odd to go and dump something after another
37:56
Speaker 4: one of your victims, you know, body has been found,
37:59
Speaker 4: would be really really risky. But what if they weren't
38:04
Speaker 4: you know, what if they weren't worried about that. What
38:05
Speaker 4: if they're to a point where they have no emotional
38:07
Speaker 4: attachment to what they're doing and they said, who cares,
38:10
Speaker 4: that's my dumping side, I'm gonna go dump some more
38:12
Speaker 4: and kind of laugh in the face of police.
38:14
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And that sort of thing does happen where
38:16
Speaker 2: sometimes killers are familiar with certain areas, so they decided
38:19
Speaker 2: to dump all the remains of their victims and all
38:21
Speaker 2: their evidence there, And it would not surprise me if
38:24
Speaker 2: maybe they killed Little Miss X and then later killed
38:28
Speaker 2: Pinky and Michael, that they decided to come back to
38:30
Speaker 2: this location and dump the evidence there. But if they
38:34
Speaker 2: can find little Miss X's remains, I don't think it's
38:36
Speaker 2: impossible she could be identified because a couple of years
38:39
Speaker 2: ago they actually managed to identify another deceased child who
38:43
Speaker 2: was discovered in Arizona all the way back in nineteen
38:46
Speaker 2: sixty and went by the nickname little Miss Nobody, And
38:50
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, they used DNA testing to identify
38:53
Speaker 2: or as a missing child named Sharon Lee Diegos. So
38:57
Speaker 2: I do truly believe that if they can find little
38:59
Speaker 2: Miss X's remains, then they might have the necessary DNA
39:02
Speaker 2: to give her name back as well.
39:06
Speaker 1: So let's get back to discussing Connie Sadly, Like we
39:09
Speaker 1: said before, I think the truth about what happened to
39:12
Speaker 1: her is very simple. She crossed paths with a motorist
39:15
Speaker 1: on Route forty four who picked her up before she
39:18
Speaker 1: made it to Lakeville and ultimately harmed her after they
39:21
Speaker 1: drove away from the scene. I've seen some people push
39:24
Speaker 1: forward the theory that Connie could have accidentally been hit
39:27
Speaker 1: by a car and whoever was responsible took her body
39:30
Speaker 1: away from the scene and disposed of it before they
39:33
Speaker 1: were discovered. But I have my doubts this would have
39:36
Speaker 1: occurred without leaving any evidence behind or anyone seeing anything.
39:41
Speaker 1: So I think Connie voluntarily climbed into a vehicle with
39:44
Speaker 1: someone who pulled over to give her a ride. In
39:48
Speaker 1: twenty ten, author Michael C. Dooling published a book titled
39:51
Speaker 1: Clueless in New England, which not only covered Connie's case,
39:55
Speaker 1: but the nineteen forty six disappearance of eighteen year old
39:58
Speaker 1: Paula Jeane Weldon from Bennington, Vermont, and the nineteen thirty
40:02
Speaker 1: six disappearance and death of twenty two year old Catherine
40:05
Speaker 1: Hall from Lebanon Springs, New York. Since all three victims
40:09
Speaker 1: disappeared while hitchhiking, Julie explores the possibility that they were
40:13
Speaker 1: all murdered by the same killer, though I personally have
40:17
Speaker 1: my doubts considering the geographical and time differences, but I
40:21
Speaker 1: would not be surprised at all if Connie was specifically
40:24
Speaker 1: targeted by a predator who was under the mistaken impression
40:28
Speaker 1: that she was a teenager. That she was a teenager.
40:32
Speaker 1: Given how extensively the area surrounding Camp's Loan was searched
40:36
Speaker 1: at the time, it would not surprise me at all
40:38
Speaker 1: if Connie's body was disposed of at a location which
40:42
Speaker 1: was a great distance away. Sadly, there is no hard
40:46
Speaker 1: evidence pointing towards a specific suspect, so the person responsible
40:50
Speaker 1: could have been passing through the area and was long
40:53
Speaker 1: gone by the time the search for Connie began.
40:56
Speaker 4: Absolutely, so one of two things could happen. This is
40:59
Speaker 4: someone who's local and is familiar with the fact that
41:01
Speaker 4: there's a summer camp there, and so they kind of
41:04
Speaker 4: troll that area waiting to see do any of the
41:07
Speaker 4: kids sneak off the property? Are there any kids that
41:10
Speaker 4: you know leave and they're walking. It's like someone who
41:13
Speaker 4: would be close to a school and watching for the
41:15
Speaker 4: kiddo who walks home by themselves, right, you know children
41:18
Speaker 4: are there, and you know that sometimes children leave the
41:22
Speaker 4: property because you drive by all the time, or you're
41:24
Speaker 4: scoping out that area waiting to see if there's a
41:27
Speaker 4: vulnerable child that leaves, and so it's very possible that's
41:31
Speaker 4: someone who's very familiar with the area. But again, it's
41:33
Speaker 4: all so very possible that it's a passerby on that
41:36
Speaker 4: busy route forty four who's they're driving. They see this kiddo,
41:40
Speaker 4: they thinks about thirteen, fourteen years old, she's all alone.
41:43
Speaker 4: In fact, if she looks distressed, even more vulnerable, and
41:47
Speaker 4: they pull over and they either physically apprehend her or
41:51
Speaker 4: they convince her that they'll help her get where she's going.
41:54
Speaker 4: Remember there's cases where a husband and wife are doing
41:57
Speaker 4: a crime together and they convince a child to get
42:00
Speaker 4: in because they're safe. There's times when you have, you know,
42:03
Speaker 4: a man who's not too much older and he's pulling over.
42:06
Speaker 4: There's someone who reminds her of her grandfather who pulls over.
42:09
Speaker 4: So as a ten year old, there's many, many circumstances
42:13
Speaker 4: that you could feel pretty safe, especially back in the fifties. Again,
42:17
Speaker 4: when we don't have social media telling you every ten
42:19
Speaker 4: minutes that another baby's been hurt, that you're safe, and
42:23
Speaker 4: that hey, I don't know where I'm going. I'm overwhelmed
42:26
Speaker 4: someone pulled over and said they would help me. I've
42:27
Speaker 4: asked so many people and I still don't know where
42:29
Speaker 4: I'm going, I'm going to get in this car, they
42:31
Speaker 4: seem safe, and or she's walking and she gets physically
42:34
Speaker 4: apprehended and simply can't defend herself.
42:37
Speaker 3: It's so sad.
42:38
Speaker 4: There's so many options that this case becomes one of
42:41
Speaker 4: those that's so open ended. It almost feels helpless in
42:44
Speaker 4: the time that's passed in the way that it could
42:46
Speaker 4: be someone close, it could be someone far away. It
42:49
Speaker 4: could be someone's first crime, it could be their ninth.
42:51
Speaker 4: You know, we just don't know. And so this is
42:53
Speaker 4: one of those cases where, my goodness, I wish that
42:57
Speaker 4: not as much time had passed so that we were
42:59
Speaker 4: maybe a to dig deeper and get some more information.
43:04
Speaker 2: Of course, the big mystery in this case will always
43:06
Speaker 2: be why Connie walked away from the camp to begin with,
43:09
Speaker 2: But it was probably just a combination of her being
43:11
Speaker 2: bullied or feeling homesick, and it was just a tragic
43:14
Speaker 2: coincidence that this ultimately led to her being in the
43:17
Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong person.
43:20
Speaker 2: But the good news is that even though over seventy
43:22
Speaker 2: years have passed, law enforcement has not given up on
43:25
Speaker 2: trying to solve this case, as it still gets covered
43:27
Speaker 2: in the local media from time to time. So if
43:30
Speaker 2: by chance, you happen to have any information on the
43:33
Speaker 2: disappearance of Connie Smith, where you happen to know anything
43:36
Speaker 2: about the identity of little Miss X, or the unsolved
43:39
Speaker 2: disappearances of Donnis, Pinky Redman and Michael Griffin for that matter,
43:43
Speaker 2: please contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts
43:47
Speaker 2: in this case.
43:49
Speaker 4: I think the thing that hits hard about this case
43:51
Speaker 4: is it could be any of our children. This is
43:53
Speaker 4: a little girl who's going away to summer camp, and
43:56
Speaker 4: again it's the first summer that her routine is kind of,
44:00
Speaker 4: you know, not what it's been her whole life. This
44:03
Speaker 4: is his first summer. She's exploring this idea of being
44:05
Speaker 4: away at summer camp. And in fact, as a parent,
44:08
Speaker 4: you go to visit and you hear how exciting it is,
44:11
Speaker 4: how wonderful it is, and then she even wants to
44:13
Speaker 4: stay longer, Like I made the right decision sending my
44:16
Speaker 4: baby there. She's thriving, she's so happy, she's learning new things.
44:21
Speaker 4: This is good for her social and emotional growth. I'm
44:23
Speaker 4: so happy, and then the next thing, I know, my
44:26
Speaker 4: child's missing, and multiple people saw her. No one can
44:31
Speaker 4: tell me where she is, no one can tell me
44:33
Speaker 4: what happened. I can't imagine being the family surrounding this
44:38
Speaker 4: baby and going missing. She walked away from a camp
44:41
Speaker 4: at ten, thinking, Hey, I can get somewhere, I can
44:44
Speaker 4: get help for whatever I'm trying to do. She even
44:47
Speaker 4: had the guts to go and knock on someone's door
44:50
Speaker 4: and ask for help, show me how to get to
44:52
Speaker 4: this place. So she had a little plan in her
44:54
Speaker 4: ten year old mind, and no matter what she was
44:57
Speaker 4: running from, no matter who she needed, she had a plan.
45:01
Speaker 4: And somehow she was intercepted at that time. But my
45:04
Speaker 4: heart is broken for the family who said, we're going
45:07
Speaker 4: to give our baby a memory, We're going to give
45:09
Speaker 4: her an opportunity. We're going to really push her outside
45:12
Speaker 4: of her comfort zone and let her grow as a
45:14
Speaker 4: human being. I can't tell you how many times I
45:16
Speaker 4: do that and send my child off into the world,
45:18
Speaker 4: praying that she's safe and sound and so having so
45:21
Speaker 4: much fun. And I can't imagine getting a phone call
45:25
Speaker 4: or arriving and having someone say, we have no idea
45:28
Speaker 4: where she is. And that's exactly what happened here. Connie's
45:31
Speaker 4: never been found. So the really difficult thing here is
45:34
Speaker 4: that if she's not found right, yeah, deceased or alive,
45:40
Speaker 4: then what had been happening to her? How long was
45:43
Speaker 4: she kept alive? It creates such a tremendous grief journey
45:48
Speaker 4: that that family had to go on, and friends of
45:50
Speaker 4: Connie's family had to go on.
45:52
Speaker 3: Is she still alive? Is she being hurt? Is she scared?
45:54
Speaker 4: Is she calling for me? And I can't hear her?
45:57
Speaker 4: And by this point I would think that Connie is deceased,
46:00
Speaker 4: even of old age, even if she had been raised
46:02
Speaker 4: by somebody else. But it's pitiful to think that her
46:06
Speaker 4: family lived their lives wondering could she still be alive?
46:10
Speaker 4: What happened to her? And it's quote our fault because
46:13
Speaker 4: we sent our baby to this camp and trusted them
46:16
Speaker 4: to take care of her. It's no one's fault. They
46:19
Speaker 4: did what every parent does on a daily basis. They thought,
46:22
Speaker 4: I'm going to do something really exciting or cool or
46:25
Speaker 4: right for my child, and it just ended in an
46:27
Speaker 4: absolute tragedy.
46:28
Speaker 3: It's so so sad.
46:31
Speaker 1: It's literally one of those worst case scenarios that you
46:33
Speaker 1: hope never happens, but unfortunately, in this situation. It happened
46:38
Speaker 1: to Connie, and so her family is to deal with
46:41
Speaker 1: this trauma that just cycles around. They maybe get a tip,
46:44
Speaker 1: they get more information it's potentially connected to little Miss X,
46:49
Speaker 1: and then in the end they're left disappointed because they
46:52
Speaker 1: really get no new information. I really don't believe that
46:55
Speaker 1: she is little Miss X. I do think that it's
46:58
Speaker 1: interesting that the caller had that in about both cases,
47:02
Speaker 1: but I do tend to think that they are not
47:05
Speaker 1: one and the same, and that the forensic identologist or
47:09
Speaker 1: whomever examined her skull initially was correct. But it's so
47:14
Speaker 1: frustrating because you think, oh, my gosh, my child is
47:18
Speaker 1: going to the summer camp, What a wonderful experience they're
47:20
Speaker 1: going to have, And then when all these other parents
47:23
Speaker 1: get to go pick up their children, you're searching for
47:26
Speaker 1: your child who's missing, and you feel like they should
47:29
Speaker 1: have been protected by the camp, by the counselors, that
47:33
Speaker 1: somebody should have done more. But thinking about the time period,
47:37
Speaker 1: nobody thought that she would walk away from this camp
47:40
Speaker 1: and that some opportunistic offender would end up abducting her
47:44
Speaker 1: and like the ending her life. It's just such a
47:47
Speaker 1: sad case.
47:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, We talked in our last episode about Connie's family,
47:51
Speaker 2: how her mother died at a very young age, which
47:53
Speaker 2: they think was because of a broken heart, and her
47:56
Speaker 2: father lived to a very old age up to the
47:58
Speaker 2: age of ninety seven before he passed away, and her
48:01
Speaker 2: brother went on to have a successful political career, but
48:04
Speaker 2: just two years ago he and his wife were killed
48:07
Speaker 2: in a car accident when he was eighty four years old.
48:10
Speaker 2: So there's just been so much tragedy in the family,
48:12
Speaker 2: and it is a shame that they never found out
48:15
Speaker 2: what happened to Connie, because I know that her father
48:18
Speaker 2: and her brother just never stopped publicizing it for the
48:21
Speaker 2: rest of their lives. I think that if this case
48:24
Speaker 2: had happened today, we might get more insight in what
48:26
Speaker 2: happened to her, because even though what happened to her
48:29
Speaker 2: at camp may not have played any role in her disappearance,
48:32
Speaker 2: I happened to think that in today's days of social
48:35
Speaker 2: media and people talking, that if she was being bullied,
48:38
Speaker 2: or if she had been groomed or harassed by anyone
48:42
Speaker 2: at the camp, then it would have eventually come out.
48:45
Speaker 2: There would have been a lot of gossip, a rumors
48:47
Speaker 2: at the very least, and we might have gotten more
48:49
Speaker 2: insight into why Connie left the campground in the first place,
48:52
Speaker 2: which is still a mystery within a mystery that it's
48:55
Speaker 2: very possible she was being sexually harassed or targeted by someone,
49:00
Speaker 2: but she may have decided to leave and then cross
49:02
Speaker 2: paths with an entirely different predator who was the one
49:06
Speaker 2: who killed her. But it is frustrating because in missing
49:09
Speaker 2: persons cases, you're often going to find a lot of
49:11
Speaker 2: mistaken eyewitness sightings, but they're pretty credible. In this case,
49:15
Speaker 2: we have a number of witnesses who corroborate each other
49:18
Speaker 2: and provide a timeline of Connie's path when she walked
49:21
Speaker 2: away from the campground that morning, but before she reached
49:24
Speaker 2: the town of Lakeville, she just vanished without a trace.
49:27
Speaker 2: So it seems that it's just bad luck that she
49:29
Speaker 2: may have been picked up in a vehicle by the
49:32
Speaker 2: wrong person and no one saw or heard anything, and
49:35
Speaker 2: then they managed to get away with it. And I
49:37
Speaker 2: do agree that Connie is unlikely to be little Miss X,
49:40
Speaker 2: but I do hope that the efforts are still going
49:43
Speaker 2: underway to try to recover Little Miss X's remains, because
49:47
Speaker 2: she is someone's child who deserves to be identified and
49:49
Speaker 2: get her name back. So I am glad that there's
49:52
Speaker 2: these cases are in conjunction to each other, because if
49:55
Speaker 2: people never mentioned Connie's case, then little miss X may
49:58
Speaker 2: have been long forgotten about long long time ago. But
50:01
Speaker 2: who knows. Yeah, maybe one of these days they will
50:03
Speaker 2: find Connie's remains and we'll finally get some resolution on
50:07
Speaker 2: what actually happened to her.
50:10
Speaker 1: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
50:11
Speaker 1: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
50:13
Speaker 2: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
50:16
Speaker 2: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
50:20
Speaker 2: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
50:23
Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
50:26
Speaker 2: with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars
50:29
Speaker 2: tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in
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Speaker 2: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
50:36
Speaker 2: the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,
50:40
Speaker 2: and if you join our highest tier tier three, the
50:42
Speaker 2: ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is
50:45
Speaker 2: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of unsolved mysteries,
50:50
Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
50:53
Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
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Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
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Speaker 2: the back, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
51:02
Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
51:06
Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
51:09
Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
51:12
Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
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Speaker 2: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
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51:18
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51:20
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51:23
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51:34
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51:37
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51:38
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