Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / “Cubbie Occurrences” with Chicago Tribune columnist Paul Sullivan

Transcript

“Cubbie Occurrences” with Chicago Tribune columnist Paul Sullivan · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I think Cubs should let counsel out of his cage.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Thanks too late for that maybe, but
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the next year Defegivation.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Sahad Sharma with Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs beat writers
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: at the Athletic with us today. Patrick is the legend
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: himself from the Chicago Tribune. He's been around much longer
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: than we have. Paul Sullivan, who has covered both teams
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: in town, is joining us today.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Patrick, take it away.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm a very pressing question, Sully.
• 0:42
  Speaker 5: I saw this clip on Marquee in which Taylor McGregor
• 0:46
  Speaker 5: was talking to Craig Council, and Council credited the recent
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: hot stretch to a Taylor Swift candle that clubhouse manager
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: Extraordinaire and Danny Miller had given him. I assumed it
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: was the Sully bounce of just you showing up in Miami.
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: What do you got on Taylor Swift candles and the Cubs? Uh,
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: you know, not playing dead as you as you wrote
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: in the Tribune.
• 1:11
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure what to think anymore, honestly, because I
• 1:16
  Speaker 6: pretty much pronounced him dead last month and they're still
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: in the same same contored I'm not I don't understand
• 1:24
  Speaker 6: the handle thing. Does it smell like Taylor Swift? Is
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: that the deal?
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: I think that's how it markets itself.
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: I'm not an expert on candlewear or Taylor Swift, but
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: it seems like a lot of the things that happened
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: when the team starts playing.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: A little better.
• 1:43
  Speaker 7: It sounds like a Jill Madden thing to me, Like
• 1:46
  Speaker 7: that was.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Just Jill Madden will do.
• 1:48
  Speaker 6: For sure, it really doesn't enact with Counsel in my mind,
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: because he's not that he's not a more interesting guy.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: But he's pretty low key.
• 2:00
  Speaker 7: Far as that kind of stuff. You don't really think
• 2:03
  Speaker 7: of him as superstitious.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: But you know, if.
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: Danny's involved, I'm all for it.
• 2:11
  Speaker 7: Danny's here.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, I noticed it in the Pittsburgh series.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask about it, and then I
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm not derailing this postgame presser with a
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: question about why why this candle is sitting here?
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Uh. I'm glad Taylor eventually got to it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: But you touched on something there, Sally, And I'm curious
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you've you've covered so many managers in this town. We're
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: we're almost a full year into Craig Council. Like, what
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: what are your takeaways and how like does he stand
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: out in any way to you or like he's so
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: laid back at times that that I feel like maybe
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: he maybe we fully haven't gotten to know him yet.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe the full person. Maybe this just is the personality.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I'm curious your takeaways from from five months I guess
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: at plus spring training of Craig Council.
• 3:08
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, I knew him a little bit in Milwaukee.
• 3:12
  Speaker 8: Just through going over to the Brewers Clubhouse and doing
• 3:16
  Speaker 8: you know, pregame interviews and stuff and trying to start
• 3:20
  Speaker 8: some you know, controversies with the roof stuff like that,
• 3:24
  Speaker 8: which we talked about in Miami. Quite just off the record.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: I can't abulge any of what he said, but he
• 3:33
  Speaker 6: did explain the whole roofgate episode, which in hindsight, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: I wish I had known.
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: That, I would have really played it a lot differently.
• 3:44
  Speaker 7: But anyways, he's you know, as you said, he's low key.
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: He says basically the same things. He's got his three
• 3:54
  Speaker 7: lines that he likes to throw as about pictures just
• 3:58
  Speaker 7: being out getters and based fall is hard and uh,
• 4:02
  Speaker 7: I can't remember the other one. But it's, you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 7: taking one day at a time, basically kind of manager.
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: He's not the most quotable guy. He is, really he's
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: the guy I really like him. The one thing I
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: guess that surprises me more than anything, just because of
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: watching him in Milwaukee with you know, so many different players,
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: is that he basically sticks with the same lineups all
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: the time. You know, so much criticism last year for
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: sticking with Dansby down the stretch and wearing him out,
• 4:37
  Speaker 6: maybe a couple other guys, and you know, Council.
• 4:41
  Speaker 7: Basically doing the same thing. You hardly ever see any
• 4:44
  Speaker 7: changes in the lineup. And it's already September. I would
• 4:49
  Speaker 7: have thought for sure he would, you know, Tinker Crow
• 4:53
  Speaker 7: Armstrong moving up at this point.
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: He's he's been hitting for over a month now, but
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: he doesn't want to do that, so I guess that
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: would be only real take is that he's very old
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: school and it writes the lineup and that's his line.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's really not going to change much.
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: And you kind of alluded to it, Sully, like you
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: were great about just going over to Council whenever there
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: was you know, someone got sunburned on a rain out
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: any or roofgates, things like that.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: Do you feel like.
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: Council appreciated that more when he was not working for
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: the Cubs, or do you feel like I would.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: Actually argue that or state that.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: I think he's pretty sarcastic and has a good sense
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: of humor and just kind of does roll with things,
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: even though that's really hard to tell if you only
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: watch the postgame press conferences from home on TV.
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that the Cubs have actually not helped
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: him with the way they do things with sitting at
• 6:00
  Speaker 6: behind a podium in front of a wind Trust sign
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: so that they could get advertising for Marquee or whatever.
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: He is way better just sitting in the dugout, you know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 6: wrapping freestyle. They've kind of paged him, and you know,
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: I understand he probably knew that coming in. That's part
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: of the Cub's gig is you know, it's it's TV
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: show more than it's anything else.
• 6:26
  Speaker 7: And because when we were in Miami.
• 6:29
  Speaker 6: Last weekend, after we were done with the interviews, we
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: you know, me and Maddie and Taylor, you know, sat
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: and talked with him for you know, about twenty twenty
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: minutes just about odds and ends, nothing to do, nothing
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: on the record, just you know, talking. And I don't
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: ever see him doing that in Chicago because he leaves
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: that podium and then he's back in his office and
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: then we don't see him till the post game. So
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: I think Cubs should let a lot of his cage.
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: I don't know's too late for that, maybe, but the
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: next year definitely they should rethink that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: He absolutely is better on the road, I think, And
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and they occasionally let him go in the dugout at home,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And I do like that. He's he is, he's he
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: likes to talk baseball. I think that's that's clear. Like
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: he enjoys it. He enjoys the back and forth. We
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: spent like five minutes the other day, like thinking about
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: where free agents may land and which which players should
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: go where.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: And what teams have what needs. He's interested in that stuff.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Uh you know, eventually he'll be like, all right, I
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: gotta go work or whatever. He's like, you guys figure
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: this stuff out on your own. But but he but
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: he enjoys it. I think liked there. There haven't been
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, Ross was good about that. He'd stick around
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: in chat and and Ozzy Gian was the king of
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: it right like there there probably wasn't anyone better than
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Ozzy Gan.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Uh. Oddly enough, that.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Was my probably my first presser was sitting in the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: dugout with Ozzie Gian, and I was thinking, like, is this.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: How it always is?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: This is going to be my life for if I
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: if I, you know, succeed and can do this job.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: But obviously it wasn't.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Because you know, I'm managing.
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: You should be a people person and Ozzie is there's
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: no more of a people person than Azzi, and Council
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: seems that way too.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Rossie definitely was that way.
• 8:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so you know, and then you get, you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: on the flip side, you know, I would go to
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: these Pedro Graffole press conferences and they would just be
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: so serious and draining, and then he would get up
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: and leave. And I mean, I'm sure losing had pard
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: to do with it. But you know Grady Seizemore, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: he doesn't stick around to talk either, So maybe it's
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: just a white Soxe thing, but I would encourage all
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: managers to get to know their writers. We talked to
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: Bruce Bochie like a half hour yesterday after the pre
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: with the Socks Rangers, and he, you know, he couldn't
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: have been more engaging. So I don't know, maybe we're
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: just old school that way.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: So you were.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: Such a great dude when I first started in twenty ten,
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: and so how it was shortly behind me, And you're
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: always just like generous with your time and like you're
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: very for someone who is old school, you're very welcoming
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: and like current with like new ideas and just being
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: fresh all the time.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: And I was curious.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: In my window here, I would say, this is the
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: most boring Cups team I've covered. Is this the most
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: boring Cups team of your lifetime?
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, I'd have to really think about.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: That your career, however you want to want to frame it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would, you know. On the field, yes, definitely.
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: I don't remember a Cups team that until the last
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: week couldn't hit and now they're hitting like crazy for
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: some reason. Maybe it's you know, the teams they're facing.
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: But yeah, just just a very boring team to watch.
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: And that's a whole lot of characters in the clubhouse, nice.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Guys, a lot of nice yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: For sure, nobody really that would, you know, stick around
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: and you know, just talk even like a Rizzo or
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: a Kyle Schwarber or you.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Know those guys.
• 10:29
  Speaker 6: Even less even though he was kind of a grouchy guy,
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: sometimes he was great quote. And so I don't think
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: they have much of that there, so that I think
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: that plays into it. And I don't know what they
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: can do. I mean they they probably their most character,
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: the biggest character is showed to and you know he
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: doesn't take any plish, so we don't get to really
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: get the full rewards of that. So yeah, kind of
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: a boring year. Now they're playing well maybe it's too late,
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: I don't know, but you know, it's at least it's
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: fun to see in the last week or so.
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• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Sully, you know PCA has a chance to be that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: character I think. And what's funny is is is Bethancourt.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: It certainly is a character, but he's just was picked
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: up off the you know, DFA and and like it's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: not like he's going to be here for years. But
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: he he does seem to have a personality and he
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: says some things that I wouldn't expect a player to say, uh,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you know, with with cameras on them and then a
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: mic in front of them. But I kind of appreciate it.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So have you seen we keep touching on this. You know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: this team is trying to make a run, and I
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: keep thinking, like it happens in baseball. It does like
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the unexpected where a team is five games out at
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: the end of August and somehow or more. I don't
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: remember it happening in Chicago, like with the Cubs or
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the Whites, And I think that's a big reason, like
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: we had, like fans, especially because they focused so much
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: just on their team, fans struggled to like wrap their
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: mind around something like this happening.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: It's very unlikely.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I get that, But also like I don't am I
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: missing a season where this happened in Chicago where a
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: team seemed like they were dead even in August, Like yeah,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like second halfs they've gotten hot, right, but not not
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: this late in the season.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: Now. It's usually the flip where they're you know, kicking
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: butt for like the first half and then they just
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: completely fall apart.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know what was that year with seventeen or
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: eighteen when eighteen and nineteen right Brewers caught.
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: Up with them, and then they blew the wild Card
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: or not wild card, the extra game whatever they call
• 13:53
  Speaker 6: that game one sixty three.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And then the next year they had the gonna say
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: it boom uh.
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: Joe Madden called it two shots that Craig Kimberl came
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: up the home runs to. I think it was young
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: and I can't remember the other one. Was it a
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: YACHTI yeah, it might have been YACHTI Uh. That was
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: a crushing game at the end of that collapse. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: I've seen way more collapses in my cub's life. I
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: don't recall any like coming up big down the stretch.
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: I guess last year was the closest because they left
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: for dead in July or June and then they came
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: back and actually had to lead in the wild Card
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: before blowing it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: So this is that goes down as another collapse. Right.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: That was a collapse, kind of just great a collapse.
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: It didn't feel like an epic collapse because you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: they did come back from what ten games down or
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: something and then looked good. So I mean, what were
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: they They had to be nine or ten games down
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: in July this year, so this is it is a
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: great comeback but you know, like you said, it's you know,
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: it's just like twenty five twenty seven games left and
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: then doesn't It doesn't bode well unless both the Mets
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: and the Braves collapse as well.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: Here hearing collapse Cubs Mets remind me of some I
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: wanted to ask you seally, like what what sort of
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: influence was working for Mike Royko early in your career
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: and like how did that kind of even to this
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: day like inform your coverage because you do such a
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: great job of like weaving the neighborhood and history into
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: your stories and also just like you have your network
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: of spies kind of out there on the North Side,
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: there's always like a detailer too that that.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: That you have.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: Just what was kind of the the Royko impact on
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: the columnists you've become.
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: Well, I guess at the number one thing was, you know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: don't take any ship from one.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you say.
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: That on your podcast, but he was always like, you're
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: representing me, not the Tribune, which of course I was
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: working paid by the Tribute, but that was his blag man.
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: And if they if they're messing with you, then technically
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: they're messing with me, and I'm not going to take
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: any of that, like, so don't take any no comments,
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: you know.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Call him back, that kind of stuff.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: So you really couldn't take no for an answer. So
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: that was really instilled in me early. And also just
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: the attention to detail, because you know, Reiko was such
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: a great writer and you know, so beyond anything I've
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: ever seen in Chicago. But you know, he he observed
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: things so greatly that you know, he you just you
• 16:53
  Speaker 6: don't just talk to the PR people or the you know,
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: the person you're writing about.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: You talk to a million people, and you just some
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: things you're not going to use.
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: Some things you are, some things are on the record,
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: somethings are off. But I kind of took that with
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: me when I started covering the Cubs in the late nineties,
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: that it's not just the team I'm covering. It's like Yoshkawano,
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: Ronnie Wu, you know, the Dona Yum Young, Donut Place, Murphy's,
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: Beth Murphy.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: It's just it's not.
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: Just the team you're covering. You're covering the whole culture
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: of the Cubs. And that's why I kind of like
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: to like poke fund at some of the Cubs executives
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: who were not used to being talked about that way,
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: you know, like a Carl Rice or even a Crane Kenny, because.
• 17:46
  Speaker 11: They're part of the story too, and they're you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 11: if they put themselves in the spotlight, which they often
• 17:52
  Speaker 11: did with their press conferences, they should be subject to
• 17:55
  Speaker 11: criticism as well.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: So I've always thought that, you.
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: Know, it's it's it's a different beat the Cubs.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: It's just a different beat than anything else.
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: And with the White Socks, I don't really cover it
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: in the same kind of way.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, there's nothing around White Sox Park to talk
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: to you. There's no mccuddies, I guess the closest. I
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: do cover the Sodfather quite a bit, because you know,
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: he's a ledgend.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: But no, I always thought of the Cubs is something different.
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: And unique, and and I like to give and take
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: with people like you know, Beth Murphy and Ronnie Woo
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: and the Rooftop guys.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: And even Crane.
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: I mean, I give Crane some credit because he's taking
• 18:42
  Speaker 6: a lot of abuse from me and he's you know, I.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Think he he's come to understand that it is just
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: part of the gig.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Now Sully.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I mean when you talk about the gig, I feel
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: it has completely changed, obviously in so many ways. One
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: way that I've just never seen is like the cutthroat
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: competition between the papers or other beats, Like we're friendlier now,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: we just are. What was that like to work under
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: those conditions where it felt like, you know, not only
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: were you competitors, which I look at us as competitors,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: but we're also I'm also like friendly with these people.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think that was the case back when you
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: were starting.
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: No, not at all when it was you know, I
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: always go back to four or twenty years ago with
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: the Sun Times and the Tribune rivalry.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: There was no Athletic.
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: Then you had the Herald, but it was a suburban
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: paper only, so you couldn't get it in the city.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You had the Southtown which was a.
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: Smaller paper, and you know, they covered the beat well,
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: but you know, we weren't worried about what they had
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: because no one was reading it outside of the South Side.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: So it was basically us against the Sun.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: And sometimes had a guy Mike Kylie, who was really
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: old school, great beat writer, you know, had his sources,
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: was very tight with management, which I was not and
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: used it against me and did a whole lot of
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: the sometimes has learned this, sometimes.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Has learned that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: And you know, we got into a lot of fights
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: that season because the Steve Stone versus the Cubs players
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: and Dusty Baker thing got to be a huge story
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: in the middle of the summer, and I was writing
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: it all the time, and then sometimes was denying it
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: all the time, like, oh, this is just I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: they called it tribute fantasy Land and stuff like that,
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: and you know, they had their players on their side,
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: like Mark Pryor and Sammy Sosa, and they had the
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: upper management, and you know, I really didn't. I felt
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: like I was fighting every other beat writer at that point,
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: but I still was friendly with most of them. It
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: was just and even Kylie, you know, we could go
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: out and have a beer afterwards. But it was it
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: was pretty nasty, and I can't say that I.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Missed those days.
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: But having gone through it, I think it makes you
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: a better reporter, and it certainly makes you more thick skinned,
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: because man, I took a lot of shia, including from
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: the Cubs management. Andy McPhail you know, calling me into
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: his office and you know, calling my boss in telling them,
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: how can you let this guy cover our team? He
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: hates the Cubs and you know, stuff like that. It
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: just seemed to happen a lot.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: One of the preconditions of you coming on was you
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: you had asked can I rip a j And obviously
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: Aj Brazenski and Ken Rosenthal are two big figures and
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: the Felt network and kind of what you're talking about
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: reminds me of like, you know, those guys. I don't
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: know if it's a.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: Love hate relationship you have those guys. Maybe it's more of.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: A a Joe Madden, like you vibrate on their frequency
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: that like you love the give and take, you know, yeah,
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: And I think a lot of people really respond to
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: that because you just walk up there, you have your
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: question and you have your record, like there's not a
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: lot of gray area. Just how did you develop that style?
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: And like how do you like why do you enjoy
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: the give and take? How do you kind of go
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: about it on a day to day basis? Because it's
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: fun fun for us to watch. I've learned a ton
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: just by observing how you do your job.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just guessing.
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: I mean, I really I'm not in you know, thinking
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: about it when I do it. I but I'm sure
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: it's a Royco influence because he was very direct and
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: to the point, even when he was telling me, you know,
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: I could get someone off the street that could do
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: this job better than you, and you know, it was
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: it was quite an experience working for him. And I
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: don't know, I guess I think of one incident when
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: because we're getting ready to fire Dale Swam and the
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: rumor was they were going to hire Joe Girardi, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: I think I just outright asked THEO, like on the field, yes,
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: And I don't even know how I phrased it, but
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: it was it was very blunt, and he said it
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: was a borderline disrespectful of me to do that, which
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: I was like, you know, you know, you're president of
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: the team, You're not president of America. You know, it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: I don't you know. I guess it's not a lack
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: of respect for these people.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: It's just that.
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: You know, you're you're just someone I'm interviewing. You're next
• 23:41
  Speaker 6: God or anything. And sometimes I think that there is
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: so used to, you know, being handled with kids glove
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: by by reporters. You don't want to, you know, get
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: them mad at him and possibly lose access to them
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: that they kind of take me in different way. And so,
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: you know, I mean, Rick Hann hardly ever talked to me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: He was very nice to me, but he would not
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: do interviews with me. And I always found that challenging.
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: And just yesterday I go up to Chris Jetz, the
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: White Sox general manager, and he looked like, oh, geez,
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: here we.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Go, and I go, you know, hey, you got a
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: second and he was.
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: Fine, and we talked for you know, ten minutes and
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: talked a little off the record, and you know, I
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: never would have gotten that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Kind of reception before from the White Sox.
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: So I always appreciate when people understand that my job
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: is to you know, ask you questions. Some of them
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: are going to be uncomfortable, some of them are going
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: to be softballs, but you know, you don't have to
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: answer them if you don't want. But at least, you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: showed the respect for my job to you know, at
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: least pretend that you're going to answer them. You know,
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: you know, I have to give me the great greatest
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: ques quotes, but just answer some questions.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I guess, Sally, that's definitely something I've learned from watching
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: you and other reporters is I mean, sometimes there are
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: times you can massage the question because you're searching for
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: a way to get because it's been asked so many
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: times and you're not and nobody's getting the answer that
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: they want. But it sometimes the best way is just
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: to be straightforward, just go just ask the question, being
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable as part of this. They're not gonna love it
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: every single time. So I've appreciated I've appreciated that watching
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: veterans like you do that. I guess when I say
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: call you a veteran, I'm a veteran and Patrick is
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: a veteran now too, which feels odd to say, but
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: that that's to the reality where we are.
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: And yeah, hey, I do want to say something about
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: AJ and Kenny because you know, yeah, go for it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: I have all the respect in the world for both
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: those guys, and Kenny is like my hero. I. I've
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: always used to take pictures of them and tweet it
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: and just to get on his nerves because we came
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: up at the same time when he was with the
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: Baltimore Son and and I'm sure I've gotten on his
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: nerves to no end, But I mean, I have so
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: much respect for him, and just the fact that he
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: was the only one national writer that you know, would
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: stand up to Rob Manfred a lot of the times,
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: and it cost him his job at MLB Network. It's
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: just a lot of respect for him and AJ. Even
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: though he was with the White Sox, he always considered
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: me a enemy because I covered the Cubs, but I
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: always appreciated, you know, his honesty and his bluntnos as player,
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: just interviewing him, and I think he'd be a great
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: manager for the White Sox.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think it'll ever happen, but you know, he's.
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: He kind of like Ozzy. He turned to the podcast
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: world and he's kicking butt. And I always like to
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: see players that go to the media and become part
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: of us, and it's it's kind of like, Okay, you're
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: one of us now, and.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: They don't want to admit it, but they are.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Kenny's one of the best teammates I've had in this business.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And AJ, like you said, honesty is so appreciated, especially
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: from former players. Don't play games, just come straight at it,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: and I think that's why he succeeds what he does.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Sully Thanks so much for joining us. This is Northside Territory.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe to all that fun
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: stuff for the podcast, Subscribe to The Athletic. Subscribe to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the Chicago Tribune, where you can read all of Paul
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Sullivan's work. He is a legend in the industry and
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: in Chicago. Thanks so much, Sully, Thanks for listening to everyone.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Take care.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks Jays.