Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / The Soldier Who Rewrote the Army's Marksmanship Playbook | Ash Hess

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The Soldier Who Rewrote the Army's Marksmanship Playbook | Ash Hess · Veteran Wellness Podcast

• John Adams: Any of the bet guys are watching this, like, it's your life, man. Like, if y go out go out and take your shit back. Everything you're letting atrophy, but that's who you are. That's where your brain is programmed at. You spend twenty years doing something at high levels. You your your brain sees that, they look in the mirror, you look in the mirror, and you go, I can't do what I used to do. I'm I'm no psychiatrist, but fighting your true self. is ⁓ th that's not a way through life, right? So just just take your shit back, be able to do those things. Every veteran has a story. Some stories change lives. Welcome to the Veteran Wellness Podcast with Eric Lawrence. Ash Hess A H. Yeah. Offline, I'll tell you a different story. I wanted to tell you. I liked it. I I saw that. I I ate off some silverware one day that had those initials. And they had been pilfered from this place called the Eagle's Nest, I think. So a very good place. Pretty interesting story. ⁓ yeah. The World War II paratroopers, if they saw something nice, they probably made room for it in the rucksack. Yeah, so I don't think that's changed, but there's nothing cool from the wars we were in. Yeah, other than gold plated toilets. Yeah, exactly. I mean we did bring a toilet roll ⁓ holder off there and put it, you know, 'cause the paperwork or the work's not done until the paperwork's finished. So they made a plaque at the building for that. So and it was fake gold anyhow, I'm sure, but but Ash, we've known each other a couple of years. I mean not that long. When did you get out of the army? 'Cause that was a that was b basically like twenty seventeen, I think is when we started talking. It's ⁓ almost a decade. Yeah. Well shit. Yeah. Well as you as I get older it moves quicker. Yeah. ⁓ I didn't think you were as old as you are. So I'm a little surprised. ⁓ I'm just turned twenty nine. Yeah. For the you know for the thirty thirty time. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just not get technical, you know. Yeah we're we're not rocket scientists, you know, rocket rocket doctors. So let's let's do your background. Where'd you grow up and why'd you get in the army? Couldn't get in the Marines or something or what? ⁓ the the that's that's that's that's a fun story. I grew up in ⁓ Colorado, near the Royal Gorge Bridge, Kansas City area, ⁓ mountainous areas and that sort of stuff. And grew up around like a lot of bets and you know, knew that the military was kinda kinda where I was going. ⁓ and then was had gone to MEPS and everything and hadn't signed a contract quite yet. ⁓ we're working on finishing up the contract, was on a contract or gonna be on a contract to ⁓ be search and rescue diver for the navy with a with it with with the delusion of going on to the SEAL teams later. Right. ⁓ and then the process of that contract taking taking some time and all that sort of stuff. ⁓ some friends were ⁓ doing some shenanigans. I got rolled up in their shenanigans, caught ⁓ caught some misdemeanor charges and the Navy was like, Never mind. And so that that's that slipped away. ⁓ and then Wi with those things that the army does this great thing and they hold the charges that were against you, not what you got convicted of, but they hold the charges against you when you go to go in. ⁓ so regular army didn't want me and National Guard was like, ⁓ you got a heartbeat, come on. So I ended up joining the National Guard once I was National Guard. Came back to duty and you know, and that that's that's the army story. But it was ⁓ I was on my way to other things back back in you know, and that was that was mid nineties when that went down. So that's where I was gonna go and ⁓ that that didn't pan out, but I think in the end it it kinda kinda all came out the way it was supposed to. So No get to pick some points, but you know, it's Yeah, w would been cat bird seat though, you know, looking at it looking at back at it, 'cause I was talking telling the story, you know, a couple of months ago. ⁓ but looking back at it, I mean you think about it, I would have like cat bird seat, 'cause I'd like ninety-four, right? So take takes a year or two, maybe three, get over to the teams, you know, you know and not saying I would have made it right, but it is it's all what if, right? So that would that would have put me on the teams like ninety six, ninety seven. That would have been like four or five years on the teams when the war started. You know, that that would have been like That would be like cappered, you know what I mean? The that that would have been but yeah, there's all that what if stuff. Okay? Yeah, just just I think you did okay. You know, I mean ultimately designed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, did and it it it is just go go through your active duty army part. So w once I got active, ⁓ went to went to Hawaii. ⁓ did did three or four years in Hawaii, three years. And then went to Fort Drum. ⁓ got to Fort Drum about two thousand. And at the time I was an engineer, 'cause I say I had to join National Guard. They had like one job. ⁓ in between or when I when I re enlisted to leave Hawaii, ⁓ I took the school option and that's why they sent me to Fort Drum 'cause I had no choice of duty station 'cause I chose a school. ⁓ and had a reclass in, got there two thousand, had a reclass ⁓ date was scheduled for 2001. So that's how that's how long I had to wait for a school date. ⁓ then September 11th happened, then 2000, you know, nine eleven happened, and my school date was the like I was supposed to report like the the 15th of September. ⁓ that got delayed like a little couple that class got delayed like two weeks, and I ended up so first of October 2001. That's when I reclassed 19 Delta Yeah. Went to Korea after that rather than going off to war because I d the division tried to keep me there, let me let me go reclass and then s get back to the division. I was in Tenth Mountain. ⁓ so y the I I thought I thought there was more power than this. This is an early lesson for me in the army, you know, the power of generals. The division commander for the Tenth Mountain, who was on orders to deploy to Afghanistan, called branch and was like, Hey, I don't want this guy on orders for Korea. I want him to come back to the division so we can go to war. And Branch was like, No, he's going to Korea. So my division packed up and went to Afghanistan. And I packed up and went and got drunk in Korea for a year. ⁓ so then ended up Fort Polk. ⁓ we did the we were the only battalion sized element that was sitting in the States when the ground war started that fought in the ground. So they flew C fives into Alexandria, Louisiana. We drove our trucks, that was the second ACR. We drove our Humvees onto the onto a C five, stopped in Spain, got gas, did it did the combat and land thingy where they start at like twenty eight thousand feet and and do the corkscrew. Hit hit the ground in the coat. No way. Yeah, filled the trucks up and drove across the borders. Stopped, got ammo, and drove across the borders. So we were we went from spun up to to in Iraq in ⁓ I think I think the actual hour count from the spin up order. was seventy three hours and by the time that we got the spin up it was ⁓ something ridiculous like sixty hours later and we're in the fight. So amazing. And I mean and I was just battalion size. So I got to How didn't that make you feel? I was I was three weeks out of Korea when when 'cause I got there in processed. I did CIF. Like I got my initial CIF draw when we were getting our desert uniforms and everybody else would get into desert uniform. I hadn't even gone to CIF yet. And I'm like, I don't even know I don't know any of these people. Right. Is it the Vietnam best gets talk showing up somewhere not knowing any names and all that? And we're not like used to that because we have our units and we go with our units and we know everybody. But I was I was so fresh there. ⁓ it was me and LC reported on the same day. And three weeks later we're in Iraq. The only people we we know their names is like me and him 'cause we did like one we'd known each other the longest 'cause we improcessed at some meeting beforehand. Right. And it just so happened to end L IPL. We're rolling around Solder City. ⁓ Solder City wasn't too terrible in the initial part. ⁓ but solder got really terrible after that. ⁓ it's a it's a not a boy no location. So did solder city and that's that's where I learned. What year was that again? That was ⁓ three. So that that was two thousand three. And but that's where I learned a very important lesson. ⁓ that was actually the start. of a journey that that ultimately ended up linking up with you and the stuff that we're gonna talk about later because Soder City is when I shot my first dude and I realized that we don't shoot as good as we thought we did. And I r realize that our bullets don't do that one shot, one kill propaganda bullshit that that we had said for for years, right? ⁓ and that that we had a lot of work to do. So Because that's what we were taught. You put two in them, you're like fucking whack whack, and they're gonna fall down and you're moving on. And I put two in this guy, put two on board. No, not with green tip, no way. Yeah. And he was like he was like, cool story, bro. And kept shooting back. So I put two more on board and I was like, pa pow. And I was I was doing that. Like push the gun up, sights, whack, whack. Gun comes down. Cause that's what we did, right? That that would that was training. We're ready ready up. Put two in. And if that didn't fail your drill, two to chill us, one to the head, right? I mean that shit didn't work, right? And because you gotta hit ⁓ on the third one. That's a that's that's what they don't tell you when they pitch that drill is you have to hit them, right? ⁓ so that that was actually the start of ⁓ of a whole whole thing. Then did three Afghanistans after that ⁓ and buddy of mine were talking, ⁓ silver star winner guy, or recipient. ⁓ we were talking. And of the three deployments that we did to Afghanistan, 'cause he was on two of them, the three Afghanistan deployments at the time, and I I think that number's actually went up, but in the areas that we worked, There was of like the nine medals of honor, eight or nine medals of honor that came out of Afghanistan, seven of them were from areas that we were working. Right. One of them came from like my unit, Jared Bonnie. ⁓ got his from from you know, he was he was in my unit, he was in our area. ⁓ but we built what became Cop Keating. So the movie The Outpost and Ty Carter and Clint Robochet, we built that spot. Right. And we had fights in that spot and just places that we were later on. Other people in those places ended up in fights that that that they're that they're awarding medals of honor out of. Right. So Afghanistan was was sporty. ⁓ another another big thing with with the marksmanship in Afghanistan we found a connex that was full of speedballs. And if anybody's watching doesn't know what a speedball is a duffel bag full of magazines and saw emo. Right, loaded magazines. And you throw them out of helicopters when shit's bad. Right. Well, this is a forty foot con ice full of speed balls that we weren't signed for. Right. Even in combat, you sign for your bullets, right? This this was this was probably thirty or forty thousand rounds of ammunition that we were not signed for, right? And we had a twenty five perfect tw twenty five meter range. And then we could bounce it out to like four hundred, but that was outside, but we had twenty five inside the camp that we could shoot at any time we wanted. That happened to be right up right at the clearing barrels. ⁓ so happened to have a copy and it just came out of the magpole art of the dynamic carbine, whatever videos that were coming out. Yeah. And we started doing those drills because I'm like, I'm a fucking army guy. I've been to this class, I've been to that class, you know, I did a bunch of army shooting classes, and I'm like, I can do all these drills. And just start shooting drills, and you're like, No, no, I can't. I I can't do these things. And we're like, ⁓ guess what? We've got b guns. We've got more bullets than we can ever, ever, ever shoot. And we've got time. So we started working those drills, started started getting really good at at C T V. ⁓ one of the S F teams has stopped by one day and they were watching us, so they came to play. That was super cool because I had two or three E threes and here's this fucking long tab fucking ninja guy fucking roll up. He's like, What's the drill? And Roselling drill and he's like and he does the past the drill, right? 'Cause it's just something he hadn't been shooting, right? Not that he couldn't shoot that stuff, but he hadn't been practiced. Well they got two PFCs that are like, wah, wah, wah, and they do the drill and outscore the long tab guys. ⁓ th th they were those guys were over the moon. Right. And not not say those long tab guys, but when this kid's been practicing the, you know, he he's been doing the party trick for fucking three weeks, and this guy's just like Been out rolling around the fucking desert, right? But we we had a good time with it. ⁓ then did the deployments and the marchanship I'm I'm weaving in here 'cause it's part of the story. ⁓ after his third Afghanistan, so there'd be four deployments total, but third Afghanistan went to the Tenth Mountains light fighter school and started running, did air assault first and then started running their martianship program. ⁓ During that, the division commander Steve Townsend was like, Hey, your book has to match doctrine. It has to. And he goes, The reason why is because there's all these guys, he came from regiment and he's like, There's all these guys that are teaching stuff that the book doesn't match with. And then if you have somebody that only knows the book of Marxhip, you show up doing weirdo things. We've seen this. It's like you show up doing these other cool techniques, if it's not based in doctrine, it gets ignored. He's like, I can't support it. So your class has to meet doctrine. So we're going through the old, old manual, and I'm just like, this is stupid. This is stupid. This is stupid. This is stupid. And then I was complaining about it to ⁓ named Dan Wilcox. And he was like, send in an email, man. He's like, here's here's how you adjust army doctrine. And I'm like, ⁓ I didn't know we could do that. I thought we'd use morons that sat in sat in Fort Benning and carved stuff on paper. And so started submitting it to that. ⁓ we got the book where we wanted it. Or got our books at MASH Doctor in the course, taught I think two thousand students, fired two million rounds of live and like a million rounds of UTM with doing urban operations and all sorts of stuff and and had had man, we're we were developing in two weeks. We'd have we have some really good shooters coming out there in two weeks, right? my the ⁓ the the price I paid for that success. was they put me on orders to Fort Benning and they handed me the US Army Marshalship Manual and they're like, fix this. And I was like, why me? And they're like, You y all these emails are from you complaining about this book. Right? Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Fix it. So now now fix this. ⁓ so, you know, dating back all the way to 2003 with the shooting when I shot my first dude and was like, hey, I'm I'm kind of fucked up. All the way to doing being the guy that was responsible for putting the in the book what ds were doing how they were training. Right. And yeah, it's kind kind of fun. That was a decade ago, right? So it's kind of fun now that you're I'm like, I'm like, hey, there's there's one million guns in the army, one million people with guns in the army. And if they're applying the book, they're shooting how I type for them to shoot. ⁓ but the pressure is like super high on that. Yeah, I know. Isn't that amazing? It yeah, it's crazy, right? And it's just something weird to think about. And then we start thinking about rotating out because that book's ten years old, right? So when the book came out, that first the million people that was there, they read the book and applying it because that's what we do at Doctrine, right? ⁓ but they should have been applying that. So that's one million, but let let's just say every three years, thirty percent of the force rotates out with retirees and guys getting out and that thirty percent refills. They're doing the book, they're doing the book. So I had Chad GBT try to work up the numbers on it. And basically it was like in this period, theoretically, two two million people have have looked at your words. Right. Just and it and it doesn't matter. It's just but but that's just that that scope of it. ⁓ but one of the things because Well, I I wish the book we put together got that many eyes. Okay. Yeah, right. And but but that brings us to and that's that's one of the things with with writing that doctrine was our book, we're like We're like, you know, as we're writing it, we're like, hey, this is gonna be somebody picks us up in clothing sales. He needs he needs a he needs a cool picture, he needs a basic understanding. When we're writing the doctrine, though, every sentence that's in there, you're like, like, some kid is going to be relying on either a how his NCO read that book and translating it over to him, or how he read that book to do that technique, right? And that's what he's carrying into. Some combat operation somewhere and that's how he's gonna execute the task. Right. And it's just that that's that that that that's what doctrine does, right? Maybe he got a little bit of training here and there, maybe shot some gas gun, maybe maybe whatever he did on the side, but the core is how we typed it then out, but and I wasn't anticipating that kind of yeah, that kind of pressure, right? And and pressure is probably not the right word, but but that sort of that that level of importance. That that they gets put onto that. ⁓ but when they wrote that book, that was the that was the level of attention that we were paying to every sentence that went in the book. Right. It's just like somebody's betting their life on the sentence. Yeah. So but that's the compared to the old ones, it's apples and oranges, man. Yeah, it's it's is a completely different thing. ⁓ they they still they were talking when I was up there, I was up at bidding ⁓ a few months ago for Best Ranger. And they were like, hey, rem we might we might rescind the book. And I'm like, do it. Like resend like like pull that book back. Like, do it. Put your fundamentals back in there. I don't give a shit. And they're like, Well why? You put a lot of effort in that. I was like, Yeah, a decade ago, but you what I still have? I still have all the Word documents of how we wrote it the first time. Before we did compromises with staffing and and got the opinions of the Army Marshall Shoot Punit, we got the opinion of this guy and made that change and that change and that change. I have the I have the raw version. I have my version. And I will change the cover on it, put my name on it, make a couple little modifications and publish that bitch in twenty minutes as soon as you pull that book back. Like like by all means. Yeah. I was like, and I put it on Kindle for a dollar a pop, I'm making more money off it than I do now. Right? 'Cause I don't make shit off it. My name's not even on that one. But that that's kind of the kind of the art thing rolled rolled up in the in the too long didn't read version. It was combat, train, combat. combat training, more training, getting back better. And then had the opportunity to take all that and and capture it. Right. And they always say, try and improve your foxhole. so I got I got a chance to improve a lot of foxholes long after you know the the last book sat on there for 40 years. So not necessarily to say long after I'm dead and gone it'll still be sitting there, but it's already been sitting there 10 years. Right. And if it and if it sits there generally on my Yeah. Ver very fortunate to get that opportunity to make that big of an effect. And actually I think do it quite correctly because we know how hard it is to get that many people to say okay to a sentence, let alone a book. Right. So no one can throw shade on you for that. Yeah. Yeah. So that That that's kind of the the too long didn't read version on the on the army stuff. Yeah, obviously there's there's more stuff than that and we can go whatever direction you want to go on that, but that's that's kind of the the career in a nutshell. I retired in ⁓ twenty eighteen. The official was retirement day. Okay. Yeah, I thought it was a little later, but yeah, I guess so. Time's flying, so I don't know. Can't keep track. But that's where when I found out you did that book, I I said, I gotta kidnap this guy. Because there's no fresher intel and more approved data than what you have. You know, and and when we did that three twenty or what the ⁓ seventeen eighteen, ⁓ I don't think the guns were having as bad of a connotation that they're having now, you know, with that small we don't know if it works or doesn't work thing. I'm not going there. But ⁓ the the gun is a shooter. I mean it's it's a blaster. I've taught some classes with it and I was quite impressed with it. Yeah, and that's and and that's the that's the sad part about that gun. Yeah, and the sad part about that gun is the armbone came out and it shoots good. Right? And it's you know, and and the the production version is is kind of trash. Right. ⁓ but that's SIG doing that, it's not that not I mean, it's the company, it's not necessarily the the design or anything of the gun. It's that this is them being cheap Charlie. Yeah. ⁓ But one of the cool things about that. I heard the dollar figure they charge the army and it was incredibly cheap. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like like dumb money. Like like I've spent more at dinner with three friends than they're paying for that pistol. ⁓ what's super cool about that? is and I still don't think it's even out, but right now the only resource that's out there that's available to army dudes that is focused on the ⁓ seventeen is our book. Like I know. And it's and as and it's not it you go to clothing sales and every time I I go to clothing sales I I I grab it and I'm just 'cause it's just super cool to be able to like grab your book and point and we're we're at the one at Fort Bidding and I'm like Taking a picture with the book and the staff's like looking at me and the people I was with are like, That's the author of that book and they're like, No, it's not. And I'm like, pull out my ID card. And they're like, ⁓ yeah. That's neat. Are you gonna pay for that? And I was just like, ⁓ whatever, right? But get get d I ⁓ I get dudes that pop up, you know, every every couple of months, not not not that, but every couple of months, they're like, they're like, Hey man, Thanks for the you know, Instagram something. They're like, Hey man, thanks for that book. It really helped us understand the ⁓ seventeen. You know, one guy bought one out of the entire squad and they're like, that's not cool. They they pass it around, like whatever. And that's that's w we never did it. We of course we want to make money, right? But we never did it to like get rich, right? So Yeah, but it was super cool if we did. I'm terrible at marketing and advertising. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm terrible at our marketing and advertising, which this is hopefully gonna help in in Because when somebody does get it, they're like, Where's this been? And I'm like, In my closet. You know, I mean it's just that what my forte. And and I don't think books sell as well as they used to, but they should, especially the handbooks. Yes. Yeah, you're talking about that. NCO, it's a no brainer. Yeah. And we we we were talking about that 'cause they stopped printing books, right? And so buddy of mine were talking about, you know, who well, who for the regular army, who's the most important guy, right? regular army, the most important guy is the team leader, right? Fire team leader. Right. It's that little E five corporal, E five kid that's this, you know, team leader. He he is the guy. Right. We gotta be cool. I'm I'm team SAR, I'm fuck SAR major, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the fire team leader man, he's the one that's doing the fighting, right? That that's just the way it is. He he's the guy. And we're talking about how our team leaders and squad leaders Trained us back in 1995. And it was, they handed you a stack of manuals and a binder full of things that was has been photocopied and you know ripped out of other books. And you got a big ass binder, you got a stack of fucking books, and they're like, read questions falling at the end of the week. And if you don't get them right, I'm going to smoke the shit out of you. And that that's where you learned your seven dash eight. And that's where you learned how the army wants you to shoot. And that's where you learned the stuff you sat there in your off time and you learned how to do army shit. And even though it's easier now where I can send you an interactive PDF on your phone. And instead of playing freaking whatever video game or Doom Scrolling on Instagram, you can actually go learn your job. There's there's not that context to it with it. There's not that that follow up that's going on with it. And so we're talking about how to bring that back. Yeah. I I think is I think it's dead and gone forever, but I mean there there's ways to force that. I I concur. Yeah. And that's sad I think, because that that's and that's where when when we started with the first one on the ⁓ four ⁓ AR fifteen, you just shove it in your pocket and Mike and I were looking we had our ⁓ notebooks in our hand of the same data. We put the notebooks together and we're like, Holy shit, we're looking at the same stuff. You know, come ups on different zeros and Just things like that. So we're like let's put this into a book, you know, and and the malfunctions in that AR one is the the best out. Mike Mike figured that out, and there's no better. And we try to change the army to get them to do that, and they're like, it's too complicated. I'm like, clearing an ⁓ four of a fucking double feed in like three seconds is too complicated. It's life saving, you moron. So yeah, don't get me started there, but you know that argument better than I do. Yep. Yeah, and we tried to use ⁓ some of the stuff from ⁓ Pannone, we tried to use some of the stuff we didn't ended up using the stuff from Todd Hodnet for the sniper manual. ⁓ but like like Mike stuff and Todd Hodnet stuff, as soon as I put it into the army book, right? While it's in in in our book or your book, it's your IP, right? It's it's your stuff. As soon as I put it in the army book, I can't cite you. I can't pay you and it's not yours anymore. Yeah. But we said that was okay. We were just gonna give it to ⁓ Just yeah. Let guys do this so they can plug a rifle. And and I had to get Todd to like sign something to approve that that IP to be used by the Army. Like he he had to be like, I give the army this this data, right? Before they accept it. Yeah. That's all it's all shenanigans. You know. Yeah, but that's where on the outside I'll just print the book. The thing about it, clothing sales. If you have initiative, twenty bucks you get the book and you'll learn how to clear your rifle in three seconds. You know? I mean that's more important than you know Yeah, how how important how important is it to you and and to bring your dudes home to know this know this information. Right. Yeah, but I remember You know, I I I got into group late eighties, you know. So there's a bunch of Vietnam holdovers still. But there was no the manuals were hideous. The the manuals were Vietnam manuals per se. So there was no fine tuning of any techniques like that. So I mean it it's better than it's ever been if they have the initiative to do it, but that's on them, you know. I I can't make ⁓ read it. Yeah, that's great. Did you get any substantial injuries on active duty? I did not. ⁓ other other than hearing. Good. I had an ⁓ M24 take your the hearing in my right ear. Had a 50 cal take the hearing in fucking this ear. ⁓ but other than the hearing, like I don't know how. ⁓ but but never caught one. I was just talking to talking to somebody last night. ⁓ basically I deployed four Platoons. for fifty two months of combat. And I think the grand total of all of that was ⁓ four, definitely less than five, ⁓ purple hearts total. ⁓ but we we laid we laid this gun in on the on the bad guys. Like yeah. Like like by radios and guns, you know, the the count is in the hundreds of you know what what we what we did. Yeah, we were in fights and IDs and just I don't I don't want to say luck or spirit or anything like that, but we had some minor shroppements. We have we have we have one guy one guy almost died. That wasn't our op that was with ⁓ that was with triple nickel. Their op he caught on RPG, ⁓ but we got him on ⁓ and then another guy caught a round in the thigh. And that was the worst injuries that we had. Another guy caught a little piece of four millimeter long piece of shrapnel when we evacued him because we were in the middle of nowhere and we we didn't know if that thing was floating near a freaking vein or something or an artery. So put ⁓ on the bird. Right? There's there's you're just like, ⁓ you're fine, shake it off. He takes two steps and and tears us from or we're screwed. So ⁓ Yeah. But Yeah didn't didn't didn't get but we were fortunate. Right. We were fortunate that the enemy didn't have your book. Yeah. Right? Yeah they I mean they they were Flip flops and not using your sights is good good for me. Yeah. Yeah. And it and everybody talks smack about ⁓ I'm like, I appreciate that they did that. Okay. That this a hundred percent yeah. Like 'cause it we we we fought some good ones. ⁓ we we ended up against ⁓ there was a squad of ⁓ AQ ⁓ trainers that were trying to escape corndal and we lit into those guys. You know, with their with their escorts, they had a puts the like Taliban gonna escort those guys and get ⁓ out of there. And they popped up on the thermals and we we engaged those guys and and they were they were legit fighters, right? Those those dudes those dudes had their respects. So, you know, we'd we put a A ten on ⁓ and and and you know, sent them on their way. But they they they they fought good. Well, but ⁓ imagine your numbers against the Russians right now. Yeah. Yep. You know, you do that many deployments against the r ⁓ the Russians, I think the numbers be a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they would. Yeah. Peep people think we're supermen. I'm like, dude, there's supermen elsewhere too. Yeah. And other other people haven't. Yeah. And Russians are shooters. There's there's they have civilian programs, it's in their culture. They've always had great marksmanship. ⁓ so yeah, we we we don't have the the the market corner, so we have to be careful with that. And then that's where I'm fortunate that in all that you did do you you didn't get perforated. You know. And we obviously'll have blast injuries, we'll have tinnitus. There's no way around that, I guess. They should just give that to you a basic training and just just start getting used to this. That's they yeah, I know, but the the VA's still going, Yeah, well we're not giving you anything for tinnitus. ⁓ Yeah, not service. It's the one thing I want turned off. It's maddening. And if you're dehydrated or something like this, it's just i you can't even sleep, so I'm just whining. But yeah, ⁓ blast and and hearing That's always gonna be your issue no matter what, because you're you're shooting A T fours, you're shooting mortars, you're shooting fifty cows. I've I've done you know, hold the old ⁓ twenty four on your shoulder shit and eat it, you know. And I'm like, Wow, that was stupid as shit. But but none of that's really ⁓ I mean, tonight it's obviously long lasting, but you're not dealing with an immobility injury. So Post service got a little lazy though. There's gotta be fire support amongst elements. What do we have to do today to get you through to tomorrow? fire support today at VSSBooks.com. I did. I did. I was so the the day I walked out of the army, ⁓ 'cause I I was pretty much ready to walk out of the army in two thousand well, first time I was ready to walk out was two thousand six. ⁓ caught a ⁓ caught it it wasn't really a railroad. I put myself in that position, but I got was a three year staff sergeant, got turned into an E five. ⁓ for some shit that shouldn't have gone that way. ⁓ but I mean I did I did technically I did the crime. Had a had a young E four try to buck up and think that he was a badass and I reminded him that he wasn't. And I got busted for it. ⁓ so I was kinda ready to tap out then. Yeah. But two thousand twelve and that was two thousand six. Two thousand twelve I was in E seven. And like I say in my own first part of the story, I ended up doing all this cool stuff, right? But right before I ended up at Lightfighter School, the reason I ended up at Lightfighter School is because six years later, even though I'd mate went went from E six to E five all the way back to E seven, there were still people in the unit and they're like, Yeah, but you you beat up a soldier once, so you're a piece of shit. And get out of my unit. No. Right. And I was like I was like, I'm done. Like like they took k every every time they give me a platoon because I I had my E se I was already in E seven and I was never gonna go further 'cause I had R fifteen I was turd. They'd give me a patine for like three weeks, four weeks, maybe a couple months, I'd be training them up. And then some other E7 that they liked would show and they'd kick me out of patin. Right. They're just like, you're just a filler. And I'm like, I'm I'm done. I'm done. But I was in death. ⁓ so but I was ready to get out in like 2012. And then all the stuff started happening with the shooting stuff and got some momentum on that, and ended up ended up doing to staying until 2018. That put me at 22 years. but once I hit that. hit that twenty two year point, I was like, I'm done. I'm I'm so so anti government right now. Like I I'm not doing a PT test. I'm not doing not doing shit. and Like kept my eating like mostly clean. Like I wasn't like going and pounding a dozen donuts and all the sort of stuff, but just wasn't working out. And my weight when I left the army, the day I left the army was like one hundred eighty five. Yeah, ended up around two hundred pounds. ⁓ went you know, finally finally I looked at picture myself and I had the had the full Dunlop Dickey Doo Award. Right. And I was just, you know, the gut was hanging over the belt and you know, just all the sort of stuff. I was in a job where pictures were getting taken of me and stuff like that. And ⁓ I was like, okay, it's time. Right. But that was five years. Like I did I didn't decide to start getting back in shape until you know, it was like twenty two. So yeah, it was like it was like a full you know, four or five years since I had worked out at all. ⁓ and Then got serious about it, ⁓ give give props to your first form. ⁓ because I was trying to do it my way, right? And it I wasn't a I wasn't a fitness trainer, I wasn't doing anything, I was just doing basically get on fat army style, right? And that's that's a lot of running, you know, this and that, and just just not not not not not tracking what you ate, none none of the things that actually work. ⁓ first form happened to pop up on their stuff. They had the app that had an advisor. ⁓ my advisor was a was a ranger guy. You know, but they tracked your macros and they put you on a put you on a nutrition plan based off your goals. They had the workout plans. And so I did it the first warm way, signed on with them. That was right after SHOT Show of of that year. so right after SHOT Show was weighing at the I think I weighed two ⁓ two. My first weigh in was like two ⁓ two. ⁓ And 30% body fat. And by May, ⁓ I had ran it down to I was down to 173 pounds. So we'll just call it 25 pounds of of weight loss, you know. And body fat percentage was basically about 15%, 14, you know, 14, 15% in that in that short amount of time. I'd spent a year on it doing it my way. And made like zero fucking progress at all. Right. Yeah. And then ran it down, but I was what Danny Wilcox calls up skinny fat. I ⁓ yeah, I was fifteen percent body fat, but I had like no mass. So I was just like, you know, I was I was almost and I and I'm five eight, I'm not not a big guy, right? But I was in like a medium t shirt, right? And so I was just I was all beard. I mean, it was just it was just there was like no no body behind it. ⁓ and then then started getting serious about like pick some plans, did Murph that year, picked a different plan and just just started trying to work on getting big and n not necessarily getting big, but getting strong in in some important lifts and things things that apply to what Kind kind of what I think a warrior should be able to do. Like just kind of focused in that area. Right? Sprints, being able to being being able to pick up somebody like on pharma carry, carry, you know, carry ammo, farming farmers carries, ⁓ that sort of thing. And then spent this summer, ⁓ I was always I always kept my calories low. ⁓ I run on about basically about eighteen hundred calories a day. And then this summer I was like, hey, you know what? I I'm I'm not caring about calories right now. I even stopped tracking. I just ate when I was hungry, but I just focused it on protein and basically put you know like half an inch on the arms, almost ⁓ probably almost an inch across the chest, inch across the shoulders. ⁓ obviously I put an inch across the across the freaking waist because I wasn't I wasn't managing I was I was going in calorie excess and I didn't care where it went because I was getting the size to other places. but got real strong. all my maxes are like super high PRs like every time I go to the gym if I if I if I don't drop down the weight on purpose. and so not to say that I'm complete, but basically right now what I'm doing is I'm basically tripped back up to about 19% body fat from that 15. And then so in between now and shop show is maintaining the size and strength, but pushing down and and dropping that back down to that like fifteen percent body fat and just honestly. Well now you can tune it. Yeah. Right. Yeah, it's just it it's just it's just a visual 'cause I I never had o other than looking at myself and going, Hey, your gut is hanging over your belt and that doesn't look professional, right? But that's that's not really like body dysmorphia. That That that's people around like you, and you'd remind me, you'd be like looking at every time you see me somewhere and you're just like, hey, you're kind of being a fat fuck right now. ⁓ but what I what I found in this. I think I've harassed you once or twice trying to motivate you. Yeah. Yeah, and that's that that's what we do, right? And so but now I I've had to fight through some like body dysmorphia be just just because and and I'll call it a light case. Because I got You know, the chest is good and all that sort of stuff. And then I got Harley Davidson saddlebags that follow me around everywhere 'cause in instead of love handles, I got a freaking ultra glide back there. ⁓ and that's something that I never cared about before. Right. And and it's just 'cause it's achievable. It's like there, that needs to go away, it's achievable. Before it was just something I as in yeah. Can I do these tasks? Yes. Cool. Right. ⁓ but that that's just kind of that that journey that just about everybody when they get on that, then then they're gonna go through that that thing. Did you get that you start getting close to that vision of what you have when you what you want to see in the mirror and you're doing all this work to go with it and then you're when you're not there yet, that yeah, it just don't want to say it heats at you, but it reminds you every time that you're doing it. No, it does. Yeah. It yeah, but it also hopefully keeps your your discipline to keep rolling because that's the slowest part. I think. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and ⁓ and yeah, the difference between discipline and motivation is is exactly that, right? When when nothing's moving, you're doing all the work, you're tired, you're spending all the money on the supplements or doing whatever, you know, you're you're doing the stuff and things are not moving or or your your saddlebags are still there and you're just like and I but you you gotta keep going. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I was talking about this with a couple of the other guys and it's set consistent discipline. If if you feel like you don't need to do it, you have to go do it. If you want to do it, that might be meaning you're doing it too much. You know? So it's kinda a little mind game, you know, but it you you look a ton better, dude. You look very healthy actually. Yeah, I know. Your eyes are brighter, you're you're you're you're yeah you're cleaned up. And and I and I feel so much better. Like and and that's that's a you know, I I talk to dudes and they're like they're like, Man, you you know, you motivate me with all your Instagram posts because it it it doesn't do good for views, but when I go to the gym I post something about going to the gym and and and I don't care, but he's like, Stop posting that shit. I'm like, I I don't care. I'm not posting it for you, I'm posting it for me. No. And the guy that and the guy that sees this and is like, I need to unfuck myself. ⁓ but I talked to dudes when I saw it, I was so happy. I was like, it clicked. Something clicked. I'm like, he I gotta talk to him because something something crushed his soul and he says, I gotta fix this. Yeah. And he did it. So that's that's admirable, man. Yep. And I and I talked to these and they're like, hey man, my my my life sucks. ⁓ you know, this and that. You know, I I love my wife, but I hate my job and I and I hate this and hate that. And I'm just like, I'm like, hey man, like When was the last time you had success? Like when was the last time you were like I fucking did that? I did something that was hard. Like, ⁓ I don't know. And that's I was like I mean, like one of the guys I'd known him fucking since like probably two thousand, two thousand one, two thousand two, somewhere in there, right? And I was like, Bro, you got your Ranger tab like right when I met you. Right. And I like, He goes, I got my Ranger tab. Like, Bro, you got you got your tr you got your Ranger tab, that's super cool. Right. You got that shit twenty years ago. Yeah, twenty years ago. You can't you can't ride that shit forever. And he was like, I I haven't had a success in months, years. Because I don't remember the last success that I had. And I'm like, bro, you can have that shit every fucking day. Every day. You can go down to the gym and even if you just did legs and bench press and you did that alternating every day. Right. First time you go in there, you got a forty-five pound bar, and you're like, ooh, this kind of sucks. And then the next time you go in there and you put two and a half pound donuts on it. And you go, man, this sucks. And then now now you got fives on there. Now you got tens on there. Now you got 25's on there. And that and then suddenly you suddenly like, ⁓ man, if I push a little harder, I can put 45 pound pipes in here and be like lifting like the big boys. And that's a success every single day. And Well you're giving yourself perspective. Yeah. And and it's not talking about the other benefits, the the size that comes with it and the weight that falls off and you know, the way your wife looks at you, 'cause she doesn't want to look at at a fat, disgusting pig, right? Or the way that the way that dudes and we'll talk about this in a second, but that that's just lifting a heavier weight every day, right? That's that success. And then then you throw that other things on there where, you know especially in in my line of work, I'm I'm dealing with SOCOM dudes and I'm dealing with warriors, right? And they're active duty warriors, whether they're so com or not, when you roll into an active duty warrior thing not looking like a warrior, I don't care what kind of gun you got, they're gonna treat you a certain way. It's the culture, right? The the culture is you're supposed to be fit and doing these things. So the closer you get back to that culture of of where your brothers are at, if you're you know Resting on your laurels or something that you did 20 years ago. You know, you roll into a Ranger rendezvous and you roll in there looking like the Goodyear blimp. And dudes ⁓ dudes that are twice your age are looking like they're you know in shape still. You know, Rick Merritt, Rick Merritt still looks like he can rip your head off and shit down your throat. And I think Rick is like freaking 72 years old. Right? And he still could. Like absolutely Rick could Rick could do that. Yeah. And so And that that's just that. So I I just tell dudes, I'm like, dude, just just start. And tell tell tell ⁓ first form app, if they don't know what to do, first form app, like like it it does everything for you, right? It's not perfect, right? But it's that it'll it'll carry you until you decide to So accountability also. Yeah, accountability. And it will carry you until you decide what you want to do, right? Do you wanna be do I wanna be a body builder? Do I want to be a power lifter? Do I wanna just be do I wanna be a calisthenics guy? Right. You don't know that in the beginning because you're out of breath and fat and you can't lift anything. So it gets you to that point, you know, it's kinda like the first two years of college. Your first two years of college are just your just your your core your requirements. And then then you can decide towards your like your sophomore year, you're like, Hey, I'm gonna be ⁓ a a rocket surgeon. Now you start taking rocket surgeon classes, right? And But that's that and that's that's what I do. I I started a little little company. we'll call it the failed company. I I just started a little it was called Dangerous Old Man and I was just trying to get dudes like me to to work out and some people paid attention, some people like cool story, bro, and I just it it wasn't the juice wasn't worth a squeeze 'cause I'm not trying to be a fit fitness influencer personal trainer guy. I was just like, Hey dudes just just some accountability. Nobody really bought into it. It I had zero dollars into making it. I it paid its bills for a while, but I closed that down. ⁓ and and now I just now I just post every day. Every time I go to the under gym, I post. And I'm just like, you know, and I kinda put it in the context of of, hey, this is what I'm doing. Like, if you want to talk shit or you wanna do whatever, this is what I'm doing, where's yours? Right? And it just Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I have no problem with it. I I I see you on there 'cause I I hated all the social medias for years and then I've started looking and it's you know a way to connect with guys you know. You know, then I see you PTing like that. I'm like, that is that is the shit 'cause I I I could tell you needed that. But you didn't want that. Yeah, but I'm good at harassing people into motivation, but if you if you don't want to do it, even my harassment won't motivate you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just just like the hippie beard. Rem I remember we sat down in in DC on the on the water. ⁓ my god yeah. And you're and you're talking about talking about my hippie beard for a long time ago. And I ended I ended up trimming down the trimming down the you know the hippie beard because when I was fat and people ask me, they're like, Hey man, why does your beard change all the time? And I'm like, Well, when I was fat, the big beard matched the the the the fat, right? And it looked like look it it was Pam Shui. It like flowed with the with the with the overweight package with the overweight beard. ⁓ But that but there was a time when I did that when I did that that massive loss. ⁓ by the way I'm back up above two hundred pounds. ⁓ my that was my goal was to be two hundred pounds, but I wanted to do it at fifteen percent body fat. You got muscles. I'm I'm getting getting getting close to that. So I I figure it's gonna be I'll end up at one ninety once I get down to down to that, and then it'll just be clicking off those last Gain gaining weight. Everybody's talking about losing weight and I'm talking about gaining weight, like ⁓ but now you're so now you're balancing it. Yeah, yeah. And so but when I did that did that loss and got down to that one seventy, there wasn't any shows. So generally I trimmed the beard up for a show or some event. And so and I ⁓ we ended up at a show and I forgot to go get go get my hair cut and there's there's a picture of it floating around on the internet. ⁓ but we did ⁓ Warrior East, and they had a 5k. And so we ran went and ran the 5K. And I was I was skinny fat. Right. Like I was, I was I was just skinny as a rail. But here's this big beard, and it's majestic. I'm running past like the Neptune freaking statues in the background. And the beards like majestically flowing, like almost across my shoulders and everything. But here's this little skinny guy with this huge beard. And so I was like. I was like, yeah, but that that's when I started that brought the brought the beard down to match the match the body proportions, right? And so that that's just that that's just kind of kinda where it sets. And I just just got the hair the hair and the beard turned up the other day and I'm like, okay. So I tell my barber, I'm like, Hey, this is this is what we're doing. ⁓ I'm like and I'll and I'll tell her, I'd be like, Okay, you're you're taking me out on a date, but we're going to a restaurant that has very important people in there and we're gonna meet some very important people, but you're you're taking me on a date, so make me look like you're taking me on a date. Like how how would you want to meet your dream celebrated? Yeah. And then then next Saturday, this is kind of cool, but next Saturday I'm speaking at the Mesa International Film Festival on realism and movies. And there's a there's a whole backstory on that ha how that happened. ⁓ But so basically, you know, talking about like technical advisors and and dudes that can teach actors how to not run guns because it doesn't matter if an actor can hit a target or not. They need to look like if their role is for so called ninja ninja delta operator, they need to look like a ninja delta operator when they're when they're operating a gun, right? Nobody's looking at targets and split times in the movie, but they need to look like that. So that's that's kind of kind of what that speech is on. So that that's kinda cool. ⁓ To be taken out of it. But you should trim it down to here, you know? Yeah, we'll we'll we'll get there. Yeah, d just not in there is I I know. I don't know. The the beer's kind of a thing. It's ⁓ I don't have to comb it. Sorry. You have to primp and probably style it. Yeah. But I'm losing all the hair up here, right? So that's all going away. So now I now I gotta I I've got all this hair product and Yeah, well that's that that youthful idea of wanting to be a seal. So you still have the hair product fetish. Yeah, yeah. So but I gotta put it on the beard now. And and it then I then I gotta write a book about about I gotta find some some marksmanship week and and and call that Hell Week so I can write it so I can write my book and have a Hell Week in a No shit. There we were. I did I d I did think about that writing a writing a book. about my army stuff with the martial shit, basically the stuff that we talked about in this, right? But writing it in a context kind of a kind of is a a parody of a seal seal book, right? Where chapter two chapter two is is hell week. Right. But we just you just turn it into that into that same thing. Like like guaranteed the intro and chapter two in a book was it was written by a seal, the intro and chapter two is hell week. It it's like It is like mandatory. We'll not publish it's not there, right? But just put it c kind of put it in a parody, right? Make make it all real, but we just kinda put it in a parody at the seal egg book. I just think that'd be fun. Yeah. Dude, we could do a whole genre of that. What are you talking about? I have seal stories for days. Yeah. Yeah. We just we we just take something out Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ That would be good. I I'm on I'm on board with that. So whenever you get settled down, ⁓ we don't have to be in a hurry, but that'd be has some good fucking humor there. Yeah, is it just just just be fine. But I like I like what you've done. I mean, dude, it's you you look so much better, you know what I mean? You look happier, you look brighter, you look you know it's helped your your mind, I'm sure. And and and Arizona, you know, I'm out here out here in Arizona now. ⁓ that was a big help. I was with Night On Co for all those years, right? I did eight years with Night On Co. And that the the that that company and I don't wanna say they're soul sucking or anything like that, but it's just one of those places where if you're not I mean it's family owned company, right? So if you're not a knight. Yeah. It's family owned. Yeah. You're you're there until you decide to go away, right? And ⁓ they don't care if you're there, they don't care if you're not. ⁓ And then, you know, coming out to Bolth Or, Boltor was a big big brand, right? And you in you around 2010, 2012, Boltor was everywhere. They're on their magazine covers, they're everywhere. Yeah. ⁓ so coming out and having having a good legacy name, but basically putting Bolthor, you know, my job was to put Boltor back at the top of the map. Right. And back to that 2010. ⁓ so that with the with the fitness and all that sort of stuff and and doing the fun. you know, on the Instagram and things like that of just just you know, life is good. To use the old Pat Rogers thing, like like life is good. Right. And it's just Yeah. J just roll along and having dinner. You're t we were supposed to do it last night, ⁓ but we're gonna be doing some stuff with the local local coffee place. ⁓ that that that has a national chain that does a bunch of veteran stuff, the the black raffle goduds. ⁓ 'cause we got a ranch here, so we're gonna be starting to do that. And I'm I'm not I'm not fat. So and that does ⁓ that just just a just just a weird thing, right? When people are talking about doing videos and stuff with you, and they're like, Yeah, we're gonna have to hire actors, right? And you're like and and it and it sits in your brain and then then you realize the reason that they have to hire actors is because you're fat, right? And they don't want you on camera. Yeah. And then to not have that there. I mean there's there's just all these little little subtle things that that once that clicks in, you're like, ⁓ they they wouldn't they wouldn't put me on their videos because of fat and this and that. So Yeah. If you if you you know, you don't have that problem now, so don't worry about it. Yeah. And and to the to the vet guys, 'cause I I don't know how long we're planning on going, but we're getting close to an hour. So ⁓ if any of the bet guys are watching this, like it's your life, man. Like if go out go out and take your shit back. Like it your fitness didn't make you a super ninja. There was all the other stuff that went with it, whether you're you know, Love and Bravo, Nineteen Delta, 18 series, freaking whatever you were, your fitness was a part of it. But everything you're letting atrophy, but that's who you are. That's where your brain is programmed at. You spend twenty years doing something at high levels. You your your brain sees that, they look in the mirror, you look in the mirror and you go, I can't do what I used to do. Whether your brain you whether you process that or not, your brain's like, You you can't do that shit anymore. And so you're literally every donut you're putting in your mouth, you're you're fighting your natural where you are in your head. Like you're like like your brain's vision and you're you're just stuffing that into a corner. And I mean Yeah. I I'm I'm no psychiatrist, but fighting your true self is ⁓ it's not a way through life, right? So just just take your shit back, be able to do those things. Well, it do it for you and one one of the guys we were just talking that we've done everything for everybody else forever. But we didn't focus on what we needed, you know? And that's what you're kinda saying is take that back and and you know, you're your own responsibility and everybody else is happy and you're not. That's not the point. You know, so you have to you know, you have to, you know, fix your own Shit before you can work on somebody else's typically. Yep. And we we get second. You get one chance in this meat suit. Why wouldn't you make the best of it? You know? Yeah. And everybody talks about life of service. Right. And and sure. Yeah, life of service, right? But and that that was one of the one of the big changes in my brain was the person that I'm giving service to is me. Yeah. You have to have to include you. Yeah. Yeah. And we always forget that. You forget me. Yeah. Cause you're used to doing doing that and you're used to giving and you're used to supporting and team efforts and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. And particularly on the outside, and it happens in the military too, and everybody's you know, sh we we forget that. That was the military too. Nobody's there to help you. But on the on the outside, you know, if people if people help you for the team while you're in the army because they don't want to fail. But they don't give a shit about you. They give a shit about the mission and the team, right? On the outside, they would just let you fail. And ⁓ that's where you gotta man up enough to go, hey, I gotta help this guy because he's not helping himself. You gotta do it yourself. You have you have to get it. Sometimes you gotta wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Get get ears out of it. Make yourself a priority, right? And not not saying you gotta you gotta be able to, you know, deadlift four hundred pounds, right? And I and I I say that 'cause I can deadlift forehead. Yeah, you ain't gotta do that. You just gotta gotta be back and you know doing things for you. Right? And it might be something you hate, because I hate running. But I'm out there running. Yeah, a lot of those exercises of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you can if you have to. You know? Yeah. Yeah, I can still I can still pass the the and I was looking at it, I can still pass I if if if I if I went to an army base Today, I could pass their combat fitness test, right? And I'm fifty one years old. And and that's passing it at the like the 30, 30 year old level, right? Not even with the with the old man stuff. And then the current test for the age doesn't really matter, but I can go past it, right? I can shoot better than most of the army D's guy are doing because I'm shooting almost every week, right? But not not saying I could go go rock 'cause I haven't rucked in forever, so I get whooped my ass whooped on a on a on a on that. But it but if I had to, for whatever reason, do army shit army style way, I can do that by every metric that the army has. And I couldn't do that five years ago. Right. ⁓ gosh no. Yeah, you you would have hung yourself. Yeah. And But yeah, that's that's that that's the that that's the top level. ⁓ I d at least yeah I don't know how long you wanted to go, but No, that's fine. I mean that ⁓ we've got everything in there. We can always revisit something later. But I I love those points and everybody's kind of bringing up the same points but in different ways. So, you know, and you know s when you instruct, you might have to say it five different ways for it to click. Yeah. So it's The more guys we get through here, somebody's gonna go, ⁓ that makes sense to me, even though it's the same freaking thing that's been said ten times. ⁓ you know that, especially teaching in ditch. You know, you ⁓ get the wrong interpreter, you're done. There's no point to be there. Yeah. Next I'll get you off that vape. So the lung and blood. Yeah. Yeah. I'll harass you accordingly. But hey, thanks for taking the time today and My my place strangers, I haven't talked to you in forever. I I I avoided shot show like the plague, so ⁓ Yeah, we got like I say, we got the range down here. I don't know how flag stuff how far flag stuff is away. I think it's like two or three hours, two and a half hours. ⁓ but we got the range down here. One flight. One flight. ⁓ Got the range down here, we've got, you know, grenade launchers and all that sort of stuff. And we can we can PKMs. I was one of the first customers of Voltor. Back in the day, back when Eric Kensel ran that. I I was there when it started and we had a ball. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll get we'll get you down here and we'll we'll shoot some guns and we'll we'll have some fun. And well, we'll just hang out. I mean I've shot guns. I'm over that. So unless there's something cool, you know, eight six blackout or something like that. I'm I'm kinda into the new there's a new caliber of the day, you know. Yeah. But ⁓ well, thanks. We'll tie this up and ⁓ I'll talk to you on the backside. I meme. Appreciate ya.