Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Teen Girl Vanishes Night Before High School Dance, Kidnapped from Mall?

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Teen Girl Vanishes Night Before High School Dance, Kidnapped from Mall? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: A sixteen year old girl getting ready for the big
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Speaker 2: high school dance seemingly vanishes into thin air. What happens
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Speaker 2: to Pamela? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
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Speaker 2: Series SEXE one eleven. First of all, take a listen
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Speaker 2: to our friends at crime Online.
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Speaker 3: Pamela Conyers, the eldest of three siblings, spent the night
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Speaker 3: of October sixteenth in typical teenager fashion. She went to
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Speaker 3: the Friday night homecoming bonfire and pep rally at Glenn
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Speaker 3: Burnie High School. She headed home afterwards, and her mom
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Speaker 3: gave her five dollars in the keys to the family
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Speaker 3: car and Dodge Monico. Conyers headed to the Herrendel Mall
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Speaker 3: in Glenn Bernie. It's only a three minute drive from
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Speaker 3: the high school to the mall. Conyers wanted to buy
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Speaker 3: a bottle of shoe dye to match the dress that
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Speaker 3: she planned to wear to the school dance the next evening.
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Speaker 4: Okay, let me understand this.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now is crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter
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Speaker 2: Dave mac so. This young girl is sixteen years old
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Speaker 2: and her parents give her gas money and the keys
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Speaker 2: to the family car, the Monaco to go to the
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Speaker 2: local mall.
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Speaker 4: Is that right to get shoe die?
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Speaker 5: Yes, ma'am, that's correct. We're talking a couple of like
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Speaker 5: a three or four minute drive away.
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Speaker 4: It's not a long way away just to get shoe die.
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Speaker 4: That's it correct. So she should have been right back.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, and they expected her right back.
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Speaker 2: So okay, it's that Friday night and they have a
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Speaker 2: big bonfire getting ready for the dance, which I guess
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Speaker 2: is on Saturday. They have the pep rally in the
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Speaker 2: high school gym. She goes home after school and then
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Speaker 2: goes to the mall. Where is Glenn Bernie.
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Speaker 5: It is in ann Arundel County, Maryland.
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Speaker 4: So tell me about that.
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Speaker 2: Is at metropolitan there's a high population or is this suburban?
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Speaker 4: Is it rural? What is it?
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Speaker 5: It's a rural area, but it's building, Nancy, and that
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Speaker 5: actually comes into play in this whole story. Anna Rendel
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Speaker 5: County was a fairly rural county, but it was in transition.
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Speaker 5: There was a lot of building going on. There was
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Speaker 5: a major highway construction going on in the area at
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Speaker 5: the time. It was an area that was again going
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Speaker 5: from rural to more cosmopolitan at the time.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Sharyl McCollum is joining me, Director of the Cold
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Speaker 2: Case Research Institute. You can find her at Coldcasecris dot org.
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Speaker 2: And she's a star of a brand new hit podcast,
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Speaker 2: Zone seven. Cheryl McCollum explain why that is so important
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Speaker 2: that we get the lay of the land.
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Speaker 6: You've got to understand the crime scene to truly understand
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Speaker 6: the perpetrator. It is critical that we know that because again,
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Speaker 6: whoever might have taken her, whoever might have harmed her,
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Speaker 6: picked that location, so they take it for a reason.
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Speaker 6: So you've got to understand it. You've got to walk it,
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Speaker 6: you've got to breathe it, you've got to touch it.
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Speaker 6: That way, you can get a little bit of a
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Speaker 6: window into who this person might have been it might
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Speaker 6: have taken her.
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Speaker 4: You know.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Angie Arnold joining me, renowned psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction.
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Speaker 2: You can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Angie, this is just reminding me of when I
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Speaker 2: worked at the Macon Mall. I think I got my
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Speaker 2: job in the tenth or eleventh grade, and I would
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Speaker 2: think nothing about parking in this vast parking lot, which
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Speaker 2: just was the big thing for making we never had
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Speaker 2: a mall that size before and walking in and out.
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Speaker 2: And of course I was working at CYRS Roebuck and
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Speaker 2: there's a lot of disastrous stories about me working there
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Speaker 2: in the lawnmower department, the tool department, the candy department,
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Speaker 2: where I ate everything that I earned. But that said,
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Speaker 2: you know, when you're young, at sixteen, you don't think
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Speaker 2: anything can happen to you. You pull into the first
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Speaker 2: part he's bought you can find, and race in and
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Speaker 2: never look back.
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Speaker 7: That's right, I know, because Nancy, if nothing ever has
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Speaker 7: happened to you, then why would you think that something
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Speaker 7: was going to happen to you? And that's what people
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Speaker 7: live them. We can't all walk around every day living
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Speaker 7: in fear that something's going to happen to us. So
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Speaker 7: we protect ourselves from that and we don't walk around
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Speaker 7: thinking that we're in fear. Especially little sixteen year old
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Speaker 7: girls that are thinking about buying shoe die for a
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Speaker 7: dance that they're going to not a care in the world,
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Speaker 7: and so that made her very vulnerable.
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Speaker 4: Take a listen to this.
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Speaker 3: The stor clerk confirmed that Kanyer's bought to die. When
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Speaker 3: Conyer's did not come home, her parents reported her missing.
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Speaker 2: So we know she made it to them all, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 2: because the store clerk confirmed she bought the die, but
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Speaker 2: then she never made it home. Can you imagine those
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Speaker 2: hours when the parents say two hours have passed, and
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Speaker 2: that I think is when the parents would start noticing
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Speaker 2: that something had gone.
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Speaker 6: She was just miles from home, so that means your
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Speaker 6: timetable is even more narrow than it was before. She
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Speaker 6: should have been from the mall to home within minutes,
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Speaker 6: so now to me is even more disconcerning.
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Speaker 2: Just minutes away. Take a listen to Lieutenant Jackie Davis.
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Speaker 8: On October sixteenth, Pam went to do what most teenagers do.
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Speaker 8: She left to go run an errand at the Herondale Mall.
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Speaker 8: And if you're familiar with our county at all, the
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Speaker 8: Harendale Mall is actually only a few miles from here,
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Speaker 8: right on Ritchie Highway near Aquahart Road. Pam never returned
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Speaker 8: from running that errand later that evening, her family called
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Speaker 8: to report her missing. Three days later, on October nineteenth,
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Speaker 8: Pam's car was found abandoned on the side of one
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Speaker 8: hundred in the area we now know as the Waterford
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Speaker 8: Road overpass.
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Speaker 3: Saturday morning, State and County police begin using a helicopter
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Speaker 3: to search for the girl and the car. Late Monday afternoon,
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Speaker 3: a man walking in the woods reported to the police
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Speaker 3: that he found in dodge in an overgrown field about
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Speaker 3: one hundred yards off the road. The next morning, an
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Speaker 3: intense search of the wooded area surrounding the overgrown and
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Speaker 3: deserted farm and its buildings began.
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Speaker 2: You know, back to you, Cheryl McCollum, that tells me
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Speaker 2: a lot, because she's missing and the car has been
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Speaker 2: left out in an overgrown field one hundred yards off
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Speaker 2: the road. Now, I find it very difficult to believe
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Speaker 2: that this young girl who was just going to get
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Speaker 2: shoe dye to match her address for the dance, is
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Speaker 2: out in the middle of an overgrown field that far
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Speaker 2: off the road, and now the car is abandoned, agreed, And.
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Speaker 6: That would have been in the darker night. So we
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Speaker 6: certainly don't believe that she would have driven there and
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Speaker 6: then walked away, you know, in pitch black darkness. That
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Speaker 6: just doesn't check out.
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Speaker 2: Now, Wait a minute, wait a minute, I agree it
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Speaker 2: was in the dark of knight, But why are you
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Speaker 2: saying it was in the dark of knight.
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Speaker 6: At some point she would have been on foot at night.
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Speaker 6: So she goes to the pep rally after the football game,
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Speaker 6: then she goes to the mall.
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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I thought the pep rally, Dave mc I
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Speaker 2: thought the pep rally was like the last period of
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Speaker 2: school on a Friday.
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Speaker 5: In the way that this is understanding, they had a
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Speaker 5: bonfire and pep rally, Oh the bond Okay.
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Speaker 2: See, I thought there was a pep rally then the
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Speaker 2: bonfire on the school premises. But you're saying the bonfire
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Speaker 2: was in the evening.
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Speaker 9: Yes, that's what that's what we believe.
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Speaker 4: Okay, now I get it.
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Speaker 2: So now she goes to the bonfire in the evening,
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Speaker 2: then she goes home, then the parents give her the
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Speaker 2: gas money, then she goes to the mall.
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Speaker 4: So Cheryl is exactly correct.
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Speaker 6: And remember, Nay, it's been three days three days until
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Speaker 6: they found the car. So now we're even more concerned
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Speaker 6: because she's made contact with no one.
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Speaker 2: Guys, just that scenario that Cheryl McCollum has pointed out
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Speaker 2: is so true. Why would a young teen girl leave
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Speaker 2: her car and then the middle of an overgrown field
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Speaker 2: and go out on foot. It doesn't make sense and
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Speaker 2: very typically James shell nutt joining me, high profile lawyer
8:10
Speaker 2: joining us from the shell Nut Law Firm at shell
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Speaker 2: Nut Law Firm dot com. But before he was a
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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer, he was on a swat team and
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Speaker 2: metro major case for many years. James shell Nut, when
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Speaker 2: you're first looking at a case, you say, wow, that
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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. And right there there should be a
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Speaker 2: red flag waving in front of your eyes.
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Speaker 4: Here's your first clue. Something that doesn't make sense.
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Speaker 10: Absolutely with outside of the order. If you take the
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Speaker 10: situation as a whole, the context of the entire situation,
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Speaker 10: her coming up, missing her car, being found in this
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Speaker 10: deserted area, all of those are completely inconsistent with what
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Speaker 10: she set out to do.
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Speaker 2: You know, doctor Angie, you were talking about we choose
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Speaker 2: to live in a bubble, which we do. You've been
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Speaker 2: a crime victim or you're in the crime business like
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Speaker 2: many of us are on this panel. It's easier and
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Speaker 2: more comfortable to just go through life with blinders on
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Speaker 2: and not suspect the person parks next to you in
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Speaker 2: the parking garage. Here, it's easier to live in the
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Speaker 2: bubble because she's just going down the street. This is
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Speaker 2: less than ten minutes from the home. The mall that
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Speaker 2: she went to to get the shoe.
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Speaker 7: Died, so it was her own little bubble. And as
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Speaker 7: they said, I'm actually very familiar with Anna Arundel County
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Speaker 7: because my parents used to live there, and it's very
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Speaker 7: grown up now. There's lots of stuff around a lot
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Speaker 7: of military people live there because it's close to Annapolis.
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Speaker 7: I think that people even feel more secure when they're
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Speaker 7: in an area. So I live in Atlanta and so Nancy,
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Speaker 7: I live in the middle of the city. We're very
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Speaker 7: we have a very heightened awareness of what's going on here.
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Speaker 7: But even a little bit outside of the city, people
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Speaker 7: don't have the same heightened awareness of the crime that
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Speaker 7: goes on in Atlanta just a few miles away from them.
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Speaker 7: So in Arundel County is a suburb, and back then
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Speaker 7: when this happened, it was it was very rural. So
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Speaker 7: people do have an People really do have a sense
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Speaker 7: that things are safe and nothing's going to happen to them,
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Speaker 7: because typically nothing does happen to them. Typically it is
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Speaker 7: very safe.
10:39
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: To Cheryl McCollum, this is taking me, uh, taking my
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Speaker 2: mind to a story that was our inaugural case when
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Speaker 2: we started crime stories on Fox Nation.
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Speaker 4: And it's the case of Chucky mock Uh.
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Speaker 2: It's place in water Robins and just like here, Chucky
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Speaker 2: comes in and his mom was washing the dishes and
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Speaker 2: he goes, hey, mom, can I ride my bike to.
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Speaker 4: The corner store and get some candy?
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Speaker 2: She goes sure, it was like four blocks away as
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Speaker 2: the crow flies, and he was killed. And she never
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Speaker 2: thought twice about it because it was so close. It
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Speaker 2: was right in the neighborhood, and she had that false
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Speaker 2: sense of security.
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Speaker 6: Well, it was also in the neighborhood. But even when
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Speaker 6: he went to the store, several people that he knew
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Speaker 6: saw him. He spoke to friends, he spoke to parents
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Speaker 6: of friends. Lots of people saw him because they were
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Speaker 6: running errands, or they rid the store, or they read
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Speaker 6: a red light. So even though she wasn't visibly with him,
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Speaker 6: he met people that he knew and could trust all
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Speaker 6: along the way.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing here with the clerk says, yeah, she
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Speaker 2: was here, she bought her She Diane left guys, take
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Speaker 2: us in a chief.
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Speaker 11: Amml Awad Pamela was a sixteen year old an Toronto
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Speaker 11: County resident. She just attended the glen Burnie High School
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Speaker 11: home coming bonfire.
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Speaker 4: And pep Rowley.
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Speaker 11: She was quite simply doing what most sixteen year old
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Speaker 11: high school students did. She was living her life, creating
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Speaker 11: memories and spending precious moments with our family and friends,
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Speaker 11: simply celebrating and enjoying the essence of her teen years.
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Speaker 2: Gosh, and I remember that that would be the big
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Speaker 2: thing when you would go to your prom or your
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Speaker 2: homecoming dance.
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Speaker 4: And here she is, which many of us on this poe.
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Speaker 2: I'm done before dying your shoes to match your address,
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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, how many times did you die your shoes
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Speaker 2: for all the weddings you've attended?
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Speaker 6: Honey, I got four sisters, so at least four that
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Speaker 6: I could absolutely tell you happened. But can I point
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Speaker 6: out one more thing about her day? When she was
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Speaker 6: at the bonfire, she was again surrounded by friends and
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Speaker 6: teachers and coaches. Whenever we had our bonfires, always the
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Speaker 6: coaches were on hand to put the fire out all
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Speaker 6: the kids left, so she was surrounded by people that
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Speaker 6: cared about her and that she knew well.
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Speaker 2: In addition to them, police were on it. At the
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Speaker 2: get go take a listen to Dave mac.
13:10
Speaker 3: Four detectives were assigned to the family Conyer's case full time.
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Speaker 3: More than two hundred leads were checked out. Twenty five
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Speaker 3: suspects were picked up, interrogated, and then released after their
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Speaker 3: alibis checked out. Within a month of Conyer's death, detectives
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Speaker 3: had logged about nine hundred man hours looking for the killer. Clothing, dirt,
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Speaker 3: and soil samples banking from the car were sent to
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Speaker 3: the FBI Crime Lab in Washington for analysis.
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Speaker 2: That is a lot of manpower, James shell Nutt, Well.
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Speaker 10: It takes a lot of manpower, you know, you think
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Speaker 10: about it. Now, we can track cell phones, you know,
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Speaker 10: you can even pinpoint, you know, the IP addresses of
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Speaker 10: cell phones that are in a certain geographic layer at
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Speaker 10: any point in time. You know, you have all these
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Speaker 10: traffic cameras. So many tools have progressed for law enforcement
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Speaker 10: a lot.
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Speaker 2: And I mean look at this clothing, dirt, and soil
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Speaker 2: samples that came from her car sent to the FBI
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Speaker 2: Crime Lab in Quantico for analysis. They're really doing everything
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Speaker 2: they can think of. Cheryl McCallum, I mean what is
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Speaker 2: involved and very simply getting the soil samples from the
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Speaker 2: floor mats, that.
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Speaker 6: Would be one of those clues that would be a
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Speaker 6: money tree if it came back to something really unusual.
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Speaker 6: For example, let's say somebody had been near a farm
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Speaker 6: versus a red clay road. The dirt underneath the car
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Speaker 6: versus the dirt on the inside of the car may
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Speaker 6: tell you they got out at a certain place, not
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Speaker 6: where that car was found, but earlier in the day
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Speaker 6: they were somewhere different, and that would give them other
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Speaker 6: places to possibly search for her or to ask for people. Hey,
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Speaker 6: did you see anything unusual? Did you see this car,
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Speaker 6: you know, earlier in the day in a place that
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Speaker 6: it shouldn't have been.
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Speaker 2: And when we hear twenty five suspects very quickly picked
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Speaker 2: up and interrogated released on alibi, I can tell you
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Speaker 2: who they were right now, her date to the dance
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Speaker 2: the next night, whoever she was hanging out with at the.
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Speaker 4: Bonfire in the pep rally, her dad probably.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I've told you I'm sure that when I
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Speaker 2: was speaking to Phil the Toronto that's Karinavitronto's dad, Karina
15:18
Speaker 2: the Long Island jogger.
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Speaker 4: She and her dad were supposed to go on a
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Speaker 4: jog together.
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Speaker 2: He was down in the back, so she went without
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Speaker 2: him and she was attacked and murdered on that jog.
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Speaker 2: At her funeral, they take Phil the Toronto out to
15:34
Speaker 2: get his DNA. Of course he wasn't involved, but he's
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Speaker 2: the dad who was supposed to go on the jock.
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Speaker 4: He found her body, so they took his DNA.
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Speaker 2: So I'm sure her date, a potential date, her current boyfriend,
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Speaker 2: maybe an ex boyfriend. Maybe teachers, male teachers at the school.
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Speaker 2: That right there, I'm wrecking up. I mean, what about it, Cheryl?
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Speaker 2: Twenty five people suspects.
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Speaker 6: Absolutely, and then then you have your usual suspects in town.
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Speaker 6: Maybe somebody that has a past of hurting people. You've
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Speaker 6: got maybe somebody that a student said, hey, this guy
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Speaker 6: had a crush owner, but she was dating somebody else.
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Speaker 6: That that net gets tossed pretty wide pretty quick.
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Speaker 2: Registered sex offenders, neighbors, absolute teacher, everybody, if they're a man,
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Speaker 2: basically they're going to be picked up right correct.
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Speaker 6: And that's something again they can go through very quickly.
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Speaker 6: People are going to have alibis. People are going to
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Speaker 6: be you know, going to second jobs, you know, being
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Speaker 6: seen at dinners, you know, staying after the bonfire and
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Speaker 6: talking to other teachers. So again they were able to
16:41
Speaker 6: get through some of these people and clear them back.
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Speaker 2: What do we know about her, Pam, take a listen
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Speaker 2: to our friends at Unsolved Murders.
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Speaker 4: Do you know what her personality was like? What she
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Speaker 4: like anything like that?
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Speaker 12: Yeah, from why I've heard it, she was just really
16:59
Speaker 12: involved in a lot of different things. When I was
17:01
Speaker 12: in high school, Dad that I reminded him of her,
17:05
Speaker 12: because I did for singing and volunteering and clubs and
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Speaker 12: like just hands in a lot of different groups and
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Speaker 12: knew a lot of people, and everybody really liked her.
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Speaker 6: Here.
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Speaker 12: She was like a popular kid, and she was older.
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Speaker 12: You know, she was in high school. He was still
17:21
Speaker 12: in middle school, but she was still he got from
17:24
Speaker 12: a like social status, so she was still older in school.
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Speaker 5: I think she was a cheerleader and.
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Speaker 6: She did a lot of volunteering.
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Speaker 12: My daughter she's really involved with volunteering with the church.
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Speaker 2: And right there, that widens your group. Whoever was at
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Speaker 2: in the PEP rally, if she was a cheerleader. They
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Speaker 2: would have been watching her volunteer at the church. Okay,
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Speaker 2: there goes the youth minister in the pastor they're in
17:46
Speaker 2: the net to be questioned as well, would you agree
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Speaker 2: or disagree? Cheryl One take us again to our friends
17:54
Speaker 2: at Unsolved Murders of sister Kathy.
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Speaker 4: Did she just not return home? And they started wondering
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Speaker 4: where she was?
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Speaker 12: Yes, And I think they actually got kind of a
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Speaker 12: call out earlier because there was that dance and there
18:06
Speaker 12: were people who were expecting her there. Her parents thought
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Speaker 12: she didn't come on from the dance, but then her
18:11
Speaker 12: friends are calling because where she wanted to show up was.
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Speaker 9: The same night.
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Speaker 12: Oh my goodness, I didn't know that.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you know we had a date.
18:21
Speaker 5: I don't know if she had a date.
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Speaker 13: I asked my did.
18:23
Speaker 14: I don't think I need that.
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Speaker 12: He didn't remember, but I know that now that I've
18:26
Speaker 12: asked her about it, he probably.
18:28
Speaker 2: Thought about it more and more from our friends at WBAL.
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Speaker 15: Pamela Lynn Conyers was a student at glenn Burnie High
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Speaker 15: School and was last seen alive on October sixteenth, after
18:39
Speaker 15: she went to Harrondale Mall to run an errand Her
18:42
Speaker 15: car was found three days later, her body less than
18:45
Speaker 15: twenty four hours after that, on the side of what
18:48
Speaker 15: was then in under construction Route one hundred.
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Speaker 16: I remember that Monday morning, had trigonometry class with her
18:56
Speaker 16: and seeing her empty desk really brought it home, made
19:00
Speaker 16: it real.
19:01
Speaker 2: And again at that age, I mean, the classmates think
19:04
Speaker 2: they're invincible and then they look over and there's that
19:07
Speaker 2: empty desk. Back to potential clues, straight back out to you,
19:13
Speaker 2: James shell Nutt, What if anything can be gathered from
19:17
Speaker 2: that car? What evidence?
19:18
Speaker 10: You know, you could gather bodlic fluids from that car.
19:22
Speaker 10: You could still at that point gather fingerprints from that car.
19:26
Speaker 10: Oftentimes perpetrators will leave behind a piece of personal property,
19:30
Speaker 10: a receipt, you know, You've even seen cases where they
19:33
Speaker 10: leave a wallet behind, and all of those things will
19:37
Speaker 10: be taken in process.
19:39
Speaker 2: And then a major turn in the investigation. Take a
19:43
Speaker 2: listen to Lieutenant Jackie Davis.
19:45
Speaker 8: Pam's car was found abandoned on the side of one hundred. Unfortunately,
19:51
Speaker 8: less than twenty four hours later, on October twentieth, Pam's
19:55
Speaker 8: body was found just a short distance from where that
19:57
Speaker 8: vehicle was recovered. Topsy was performed and the cause of
20:02
Speaker 8: pam Seth was ruled asphyxiation via strangulation and the manner
20:07
Speaker 8: of homicide.
20:08
Speaker 3: Officer Robert Schweitzer found Pamela Kanyer's body about three hundred
20:13
Speaker 3: yards from the car. She was lying on her side.
20:16
Speaker 3: Conyers was wearing slacks and a pullover sweater that had
20:19
Speaker 3: been turned inside out. Her underwear, her purse, and the
20:22
Speaker 3: car keys were missing. Tire tracks led off the little
20:25
Speaker 3: used farm road into the woods. Plastercast of the tires
20:28
Speaker 3: lead police to believe the Conyers dodge was what was
20:32
Speaker 3: used to enter the woods. The police chief said he
20:34
Speaker 3: thought Pamela Conyers had been rolled out of the car door.
20:37
Speaker 4: How they know that is amazing.
20:40
Speaker 2: Joining me right now, very well known medical examiner, toxicologist,
20:46
Speaker 2: pathologist and author of American narcan nexalon and Heroin Fentanyl
20:52
Speaker 2: Associate Immortality doctor William Maroney. Doctor Moroney, thank you for
20:57
Speaker 2: being with us. Explain what we're hearing about this tame girl,
21:03
Speaker 2: pam Kanyer's body.
21:05
Speaker 9: Well, the important thing is we look at the science
21:09
Speaker 9: of what's happened. They said, clearly this is asphyxia by strangulation.
21:16
Speaker 9: So there was either a line accord or hands that
21:22
Speaker 9: went around her throat, and we look for bone damage
21:28
Speaker 9: and muscle bruising in the throat, and then we look
21:32
Speaker 9: for signs of blood pressure that are indicative of hemorrhages
21:39
Speaker 9: in the eyes, and those things show us strangulation and
21:47
Speaker 9: asphyxia asphixias, somebody stopped her from breathing. Now, if it
21:52
Speaker 9: was just plain asphixias, somebody put their hand over her mouth,
21:57
Speaker 9: then you wouldn't have the bruised mud in the neck,
22:02
Speaker 9: and you wouldn't have bone damage in the cartilage below
22:07
Speaker 9: the jaw in the neck. Very specific, they said, strangulation.
22:12
Speaker 9: That's a very specific process. And that's not a random thing.
22:17
Speaker 9: That's not an accident thing. You can't have that happen.
22:21
Speaker 9: That's premeditated. And the other part that really bothered me,
22:24
Speaker 9: as their underwear was missing. That is a heinous How.
22:29
Speaker 2: Do you know that it's manual strangulation versus ligature strangulation?
22:35
Speaker 9: Okay, the big difference in autopsy is when somebody comes
22:39
Speaker 9: in with a ligature, they have what is called a furrow.
22:44
Speaker 9: You see it also in hanging that above and below
22:49
Speaker 9: the ligature there's specific indentations that come from a wire
22:55
Speaker 9: or a cord or a rope, and it's almost like
23:01
Speaker 9: tire treads in a snow or tire treads for automobile tires,
23:07
Speaker 9: very specific patterns. Whereas when somebody is strangled, those finger
23:15
Speaker 9: marks oftentimes represent bruising in the muffles and sometimes it
23:21
Speaker 9: shows up on the skin so that you can tell.
23:24
Speaker 9: If somebody was strangled from behind, then the finger marks
23:29
Speaker 9: are on the front of the throat. If they were
23:31
Speaker 9: strangled face to face, then those finger marks will make
23:36
Speaker 9: bruises on the back of the neck and on the
23:38
Speaker 9: front of the neck you'll have a specific pattern where
23:42
Speaker 9: the thumbs are, and those thumbs can break or damage
23:47
Speaker 9: the bones in the neck. Also, that's hands versus ligatures,
23:53
Speaker 9: very specific, and you can tell that like night and day.
23:57
Speaker 2: And of course with some other type of a six
24:00
Speaker 2: like suffocation, like putting a pillow over somebody's head or
24:04
Speaker 2: your hand over their mouth and you pinch their nose,
24:07
Speaker 2: you don't get any of the furrows to the neck
24:10
Speaker 2: or any damage to the carlage around the neck or
24:14
Speaker 2: the jaw.
24:15
Speaker 4: So that's how you know it's not just a suffocation, correct, absolutely, Okay, why.
24:20
Speaker 2: Do the eyes the little vessels in the eye. Why
24:24
Speaker 2: do they hammwhage or blow up.
24:26
Speaker 9: That is because of the plumbing in the neck that
24:29
Speaker 9: goes to the head. The arteries that carry the blood
24:34
Speaker 9: to the head and go up are very central and
24:38
Speaker 9: they're protected. They're around the spinal cord and the bones
24:42
Speaker 9: of the spine, and they're high pressure, so they don't
24:46
Speaker 9: compress the blood returning from the head. Venus blood coming
24:53
Speaker 9: back from the head and going down is much lower pressure.
24:57
Speaker 9: So when you're perpetrate strangles you, whether it's hands or ligature,
25:05
Speaker 9: the pressure on the outside shuts off the return flow
25:10
Speaker 9: from the head before it would affect the arterial blood
25:15
Speaker 9: that goes upwards and sends pressure, so you have a
25:20
Speaker 9: pressure mismatch. You're no longer taking blood out of the head.
25:25
Speaker 9: You're putting blood into the head. And that's why the
25:28
Speaker 9: eyes hemorrhage.
25:30
Speaker 2: So, doctor Moroney, you state that the eyes and the
25:35
Speaker 2: tiny hemorrhages and those minuscule blood vessels indicate asphyxiation, be
25:43
Speaker 2: it on suffocation or strangulation. Yes, are there any tail
25:49
Speaker 2: tail signs and the mouth or the nose or the throat.
25:53
Speaker 9: Well, those have alternative pathways of fluid. They have limphs,
25:59
Speaker 9: they have other flow and a lot more tissue. The
26:04
Speaker 9: reason why you see it first in the eyes is
26:07
Speaker 9: those vessels are very delicate. Some of the vessels in
26:11
Speaker 9: the mouth and in the neck and the nose, they're
26:14
Speaker 9: not as delicate as the eyes. So the eyes demonstrate
26:19
Speaker 9: the pressure mismatch in strangling. But if somebody strangled very,
26:24
Speaker 9: very long, you'll see those kinds of hemorrhages, or you'll
26:29
Speaker 9: see the results of that pressure mismatch, like a lot
26:33
Speaker 9: of fluid built up in the sinuses. You'll see that
26:37
Speaker 9: same thing. But the eyes are delicate because the vasculature
26:43
Speaker 9: is very small, So it's the first thing to blow out.
26:47
Speaker 2: When you say vasculature are small, you mean the blood
26:49
Speaker 2: vessels are so small and tiny and fragile.
27:05
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
27:09
Speaker 4: Cheryl McCollums.
27:10
Speaker 2: So we understand from doctor William Maroney joining us about
27:14
Speaker 2: the mode of murder. But there is a neon sign
27:20
Speaker 2: saying she was raped as.
27:22
Speaker 6: Well, absolutely and redressed. So the fact that her underwear
27:26
Speaker 6: is missing, her top is inside out but put back
27:29
Speaker 6: on her and she's wearing pants. But again the underwear
27:33
Speaker 6: being missing, the top of inside out, that absolutely would
27:38
Speaker 6: to me, may you consider that she was sexually assaulted
27:41
Speaker 6: and that the person kept a trophy her underwear.
27:44
Speaker 2: Doctor Angie Arnold joining us from now a psychiatrist out
27:47
Speaker 2: of Atlanta. Doctor Angie, this is reminding me so much
27:50
Speaker 2: of Ted Bundy, because he would rape his victims, murder
27:56
Speaker 2: his victims or murder them them, rate them, and would
28:00
Speaker 2: go through elaborate acts of bathing their bodies and applying makeup,
28:04
Speaker 2: fixing their hair and re dressing them.
28:08
Speaker 4: Oh, you know, I.
28:09
Speaker 2: Heard you're a grind of disgust, but you're the psychiatrist.
28:12
Speaker 4: I was expecting a little more.
28:14
Speaker 6: But I know, Nancy.
28:15
Speaker 7: But if I feel disgusted by that, I imagine everybody
28:19
Speaker 7: that's listening feels disgusted by that.
28:22
Speaker 6: It just means that they, you know, they.
28:24
Speaker 7: Had this weird attachment to the person that they that
28:28
Speaker 7: they performed this hiteous act on and that's how they
28:33
Speaker 7: like finished it. You have to wonder what kind of
28:38
Speaker 7: attachment Ted Bundy developed with his.
28:42
Speaker 2: Victims post mortem, even yes, post mortem.
28:46
Speaker 7: Attachment to his victims. It's just it's just, you know,
28:50
Speaker 7: if I feel like it's creepy and I've seen everything,
28:54
Speaker 7: then I know all of your viewers feel that exact
28:56
Speaker 7: same way.
28:57
Speaker 4: That's why.
28:57
Speaker 7: That's why my my little active discussed.
29:02
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, so now we know why it was a
29:05
Speaker 2: sex motivated attack. I think we know how strangulation association
29:11
Speaker 2: by strangulation only question who take a listen now to
29:17
Speaker 2: foul play crime season.
29:19
Speaker 12: My dad had a version that I heard grown up
29:23
Speaker 12: with that she was kidnapped from a mall and that
29:27
Speaker 12: was ala the big things because my dad didn't like
29:29
Speaker 12: being out of balls when I was a teenager, and
29:31
Speaker 12: that she was affected and she was missing, and then
29:35
Speaker 12: she was found and had been sexually assaulted and murdered.
29:40
Speaker 12: And I think they always thought it was a hell
29:42
Speaker 12: of angels or something like that.
29:44
Speaker 5: Why do you think your family thought.
29:46
Speaker 6: That was what happened?
29:47
Speaker 12: I honestly have no idea. That was kind of ended.
29:50
Speaker 4: It was just somebody that was passing through town.
29:52
Speaker 9: Wasn't any more evidence or whatever.
29:54
Speaker 2: Okay, the hells Angels have done a pulling any wrong,
29:57
Speaker 2: but they also well you.
29:59
Speaker 4: Don't know who blame Hale's angels.
30:01
Speaker 2: But then the case takes a very bizarre turn in
30:05
Speaker 2: its investigation. Take listen, Martin Roeper Wmar.
30:09
Speaker 17: Famia had been missing for four days before her body
30:12
Speaker 17: was discovered. Police say she went to a homecoming bonfire
30:15
Speaker 17: and PEP rally at glen Burnie High School on October sixteenth.
30:18
Speaker 17: Later that night, she drove her family's Dodge Monaco to
30:21
Speaker 17: the Roundel Mall in glen Burnie. That's the last place
30:24
Speaker 17: anyone saw Pamela alive. Now the ties to the murder
30:28
Speaker 17: of Sister Kathy Sesnick is that a chaplain at Archbishop
30:31
Speaker 17: Keo High School in Baltimore, Reverend Joseph Maskell, was accused
30:35
Speaker 17: of sexually assaulting several teenage girls. Many of those girls
30:38
Speaker 17: had confided in Sister Kathy, and police suspected Reverend Maskell
30:42
Speaker 17: killed Sister Kathy in an effort to cover his tracks.
30:45
Speaker 2: We've all heard about the murder of Sister Kathy. Sister
30:49
Speaker 2: Kathy Sesnick and many believed that Reverend Maskell killed her
30:54
Speaker 2: in order to keep his own crimes covered up because
30:59
Speaker 2: minnie young girls apparently confessed to her that they had
31:03
Speaker 2: been sex assaulted. So somehow, now pam Connor's murder and
31:08
Speaker 2: sex attack has now been dragged into the Sister Kathy investigation.
31:15
Speaker 4: Listen to more.
31:16
Speaker 17: His body was exhumed to see if his DNA would
31:18
Speaker 17: connect him to the crime, but investigators didn't find a match.
31:22
Speaker 17: Police had wondered if sister Kathy's death was connected to
31:24
Speaker 17: the deaths of Pamela Conyers and two other young women
31:27
Speaker 17: who all disappeared around the same time. Twenty year old
31:30
Speaker 17: Joyce Malecky disappeared from a glen Burney shopping mall four
31:33
Speaker 17: days after sister Sednik disappeared, and sixteen year old Grace
31:37
Speaker 17: Montaigne disappeared from a shopping mall northwest of Baltimore. Each
31:41
Speaker 17: of their bodies was found in a different law enforcement jurisdiction,
31:45
Speaker 17: and to this day, not one of these cases has
31:47
Speaker 17: been solved.
31:49
Speaker 2: But then, seemingly out of the blue, police Chief Amal A.
31:54
Speaker 4: Wad makes this announcement.
31:56
Speaker 11: We've asked you to join us here this morning to
31:59
Speaker 11: announce we've identified the suspect in the murder of Pamela
32:04
Speaker 11: Lynd Conyers. That suspect is Forrest Clyde.
32:08
Speaker 4: Williams, the Third.
32:10
Speaker 2: Forrest Clyde Williams, the third who is that take alyssa wbl.
32:16
Speaker 15: Forrest Williams the third grew up around here and went
32:19
Speaker 15: to Northeast High School in Pasadena. Authority said today and
32:24
Speaker 15: this booking photo they put up behind the podium taken
32:27
Speaker 15: by Anna Arundel County Police months after the homicide. During
32:32
Speaker 15: William's arrest for unrelated charges.
32:35
Speaker 8: Detectives and investigators have not ruled out the possibility that
32:39
Speaker 8: another person or persons may be involved in Pam's murder.
32:43
Speaker 4: Even though, like he said, there's not one closure.
32:46
Speaker 18: There's something you know, there's there's a person.
32:50
Speaker 2: And take a listen to Thomas Sobuscancy at the FBI,
32:55
Speaker 2: we are pleased.
32:55
Speaker 14: To deliver a measure of justice for Pamela Conyers and
32:59
Speaker 14: her loved ones. Pamela was a smiling sixteen year old
33:03
Speaker 14: going shopping at the mall. Her life was viciously taking
33:07
Speaker 14: away from her. Now, after more than half a century,
33:11
Speaker 14: the FBI, through investigative genetic genealogy, have helped identify the
33:16
Speaker 14: man who killed Pamela. We hope this offers some consolation
33:21
Speaker 14: to those who loved her. When Pamela was murdered, investigative
33:25
Speaker 14: genetic genealogy did not exist, DNA analysis did not exist.
33:32
Speaker 14: The tools both scientific and investigative, used to solve her
33:36
Speaker 14: murder have evolved.
33:37
Speaker 2: Straight out to a very special guest joining us. She's brilliant.
33:42
Speaker 2: It's ccmore, chief genetic genealogist at Parabond Nano Labs. You
33:47
Speaker 2: can find her at parabond dot com. CC thank you
33:52
Speaker 2: for being with us. Explain how the case this missing
33:57
Speaker 2: teengirl Pam Conyers was correct.
34:00
Speaker 13: There was a stain on her coat that was a mixture,
34:04
Speaker 13: and part of that mixture was a semen sample that
34:09
Speaker 13: our scientists were able to deconvolute from that mixture, and
34:14
Speaker 13: then a DNA profile was created and uploaded to the
34:18
Speaker 13: jed match database, where distant cousins were identified. Family trees
34:24
Speaker 13: were built backward and forward and backward and forward. Three
34:27
Speaker 13: different common ancestral couples were identified, and eventually that led
34:32
Speaker 13: to Forrest William.
34:34
Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand in regular people talk. So there
34:38
Speaker 2: was a seman stain on her coat, right, correct, Okay,
34:42
Speaker 2: and they wisely preserved it at the time. Correct, They
34:47
Speaker 2: preserved the coat. So it's unclear exactly when they first
34:52
Speaker 2: found that DNA, but it was sent to Parabon in
34:55
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. When you get a very old sample that,
35:01
Speaker 2: what do you do, ccmour.
35:02
Speaker 13: Well, it is typically quite degraded, as was the case
35:06
Speaker 13: with this sample, and it was also a mixture, so
35:09
Speaker 13: our bioinformatic scientists had to deconvolute that, meaning extract out
35:16
Speaker 13: the perpetrator's DNA from that minor contributor that was also
35:20
Speaker 13: in that mix. So that semen sample is obviously what
35:24
Speaker 13: is of interest to us. Once we are able to
35:28
Speaker 13: pull out that perpetrator's DNA from that mixture and create
35:33
Speaker 13: a snip file that can be compared against the people
35:36
Speaker 13: that have uploaded their DNA into the jedmatch and Family
35:40
Speaker 13: Tree DNA databases looking for distant relatives.
35:44
Speaker 2: So jedmatch is a public genealogical website. Correct, Like, there's
35:50
Speaker 2: no privacy to it is people trying to find relatives, basically, correct.
35:55
Speaker 13: But people's DNA file is still private. There's a lot
35:58
Speaker 13: of misconceptions about this. None of us can see someone's
36:01
Speaker 13: DNA file or their DNA code. All we get is
36:05
Speaker 13: a list of matches of people who share DNA with
36:08
Speaker 13: that unknown suspect. So there is still some privacy involved.
36:11
Speaker 13: But you're correct, it's a public database.
36:13
Speaker 4: Okay.
36:14
Speaker 2: So once you put you at paaramond Nanolabs, put the
36:18
Speaker 2: sperm sample DNA that you extract from the from the sperm.
36:23
Speaker 2: You download it and you see distant relatives, and then
36:28
Speaker 2: you start narrowing down, go from the top like great
36:33
Speaker 2: grandparents down to grandparents to the time of the incident,
36:36
Speaker 2: and then you try to figure out who would have
36:38
Speaker 2: been living there at that time exactly.
36:41
Speaker 13: We also had a snapshot phenotype, so we had a
36:43
Speaker 13: prediction of what this individual's traits might be pair of color,
36:48
Speaker 13: eye color, skin color, et cetera. So we're looking for
36:51
Speaker 13: someone of the right gender, right age range, right place,
36:54
Speaker 13: right time who also fits with those predicted traits.
36:58
Speaker 2: So phenotyping is when you yet DNA and you can't
37:02
Speaker 2: match it to anyone, but you can get, for instance,
37:06
Speaker 2: skin collar, hair color, eye color, and other characteristics correct.
37:11
Speaker 13: So that snipstile has a lot of information about that
37:15
Speaker 13: unknown perpetrator. It can connect to that person's relatives, but
37:19
Speaker 13: it can also tell you what they may have looked like.
37:22
Speaker 2: So thanks to ccmore and others at Perabon Nanolab, we
37:28
Speaker 2: have an answer.
37:30
Speaker 4: This case that had plagued.
37:32
Speaker 2: Her friends and family for so many years now have
37:38
Speaker 2: something to hold on to and remember at the time
37:41
Speaker 2: they thought it was quote someone just passing through and
37:43
Speaker 2: no one had any peace at all. Listen to her
37:48
Speaker 2: classmates speaking to WJZ Force.
37:52
Speaker 18: Clyde Williams the Third died in twenty eighteen due to
37:55
Speaker 18: natural causes. Police safety was still like today. He definitely
37:59
Speaker 18: would have been charged. Some people at the unitsment today,
38:02
Speaker 18: some people that knew Conyers, even an old classmate. For them,
38:06
Speaker 18: today was a very surreal moment.
38:08
Speaker 16: If I remember that Monday morning, had trigonometry class with
38:12
Speaker 16: her and seeing her empty desk really brought it home.
38:16
Speaker 18: For nearly fifty three years, Pamela Knyer's death has been
38:19
Speaker 18: top of mind for Michael Golden. He didn't know her
38:21
Speaker 18: too well, but they went to glen Burnie High School together.
38:24
Speaker 18: He's not alone.
38:25
Speaker 16: It's something that all of our classmates, all of our peers,
38:29
Speaker 16: have been struggling with or grappling with for all these years.
38:32
Speaker 18: It's what drew him to Anaruondo County Police headquarters where
38:35
Speaker 18: we all learned forced. Clyde Williams the Third has been
38:37
Speaker 18: named a suspect, the result of tireless work spanning decades.
38:41
Speaker 2: Thanks to hard working investigators at the time, police said
38:46
Speaker 2: did everything right and our friends at Para Bonnano Lab,
38:52
Speaker 2: we finally have a name to fit with the specter
38:57
Speaker 2: of a killer. Goodbye, friend, you m