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50 Your Environment is your Business Strategy with Sam Lund · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Rave Social podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Today we have a special guest, Sam, and we're gonna be talking about how your environment is part of your business strategy.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And just to tell you a little bit about Sam.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: She's incredible.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and give you a little background on who she is and why she's here and why we're recording this.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: So Sam has a background in psychology, human development, and family studies.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: She and she brings more than just design expertise to her clients.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: She also brings deep insight on how people truly live.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Originally from Chicago and now based in Utah, Sam has spent over a decade blending beauty with function as an interior designer and professional organizer.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Slay.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Her work is rooted in empathy and intentionality.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sam believes a well-designed home doesn't just look good, it nurtures your well-being.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Every space she creates is tailored to the emotional, practical, and aesthetic needs of the people who live there.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: The moment a client sees their transform home, their transformed home, calm, elevated, and completely them is what drives her every day.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: So Sam's an interior designer.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you didn't gather that already, um professional organizer, she's incredible.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, I'm gonna link her Instagram, of course, but like you guys do need to follow it because holy shit, it's so good.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we're just so excited to have her on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yay!
• 1:39
  unknown: Woo!
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do this thing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love that.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have a question for you before we jump into like the topic.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, how did you get into interior design?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like such a great question because it's not been like a linear path.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so basically, I think the first thing to say is growing up, I very much like, well, one was always creative, but then also like my mom um like always liked design.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: She worked for like an interior designer when I was growing up, and like we always had like a designed home.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was like a big thing that I grew up in.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like we my family built a house when I was like in first grade, and like I sat down with like the R designer at the time and like and like picked everything for the room as like a five or six year old.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So always been like interested in it in some level, have always loved spaces, have always loved like a good hotel or a cute restaurant, like all of that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but also have always been really creative.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So growing up, I danced, um, which like essentially my dream was to be a dance therapist.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um the reason that's important is I kind of always wanted to blend the world of like creativity and helping people, yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I actually ended up going to college for dance, which is how I ended up in Utah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like a modern dance major at the U.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as that fizzled out and I was like, okay, this like really isn't gonna work, whatever, what do I do?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just switched to therapy.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in my mind, I was like, I'm always going to figure out how, like, I still wanted to blend the creativity with helping people.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't know how I was going to do that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I kind of I knew I would never be like a therap, like just a therapist in an office, which there's nothing wrong with that.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'm crazy, and that I was that's not like what I envisioned in terms of being a therapist.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think then um I just like started being really passionate in spaces and was always like pinning stuff, and you know, I think before, like I always like had my like apartment or room like designed before some of my friends were were like you know, nothing looked bad, but it was just like here's IKEA, like whatever.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I always was like, I'm gonna go to Nordstrom and like buy bedding.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like when I'm like 20 years old, like why?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, so what I started learning actually is that the way my brain like worked, like the same brain that like could choreograph dances or remember dances in my head, actually was the same like brain to create a space or design a space.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I also always loved organizing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would like do it for friends or do it like I don't know, just was always organizing things or buying bins or going to the container store.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think over time I just was like, I think I should do this.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like essentially just started organizing one day.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the last part of the story of how I got into design was I started organizing and I was in these like$10 million homes where like obviously people paid for a designer or whatever, but like the kitchens and the bathrooms and like the cabinetry, like none of it was like right.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes it was, but most of the time I was like, How did this happen?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: How did someone build this house and like the kitchen doesn't work or the pantry isn't like wide enough, or like none of it makes sense and it wasn't designed correctly?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I started getting really passionate about like that and was like, I think I can fix this problem.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're struggling to organize because like it doesn't it's not organizable because like it's not laid out properly, yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So and I was like, how like people are spent like like you know, I feel like most of the homes I was in were like three million to like ten million, you know, like yeah, like the like you would hope that you could put stuff away, and so I just was like, there's an issue here, and of course, there are amazing designers and amazing architects that do think about that stuff, but I just it it wasn't across the board, and I just found that concerning.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started I don't know, I just started learning how like kitchen's god does not like I don't know.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just yeah, I'm the type of person that when I want to figure something out, I figure it out.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I basically just started figuring it out, and here we are, like seven years later.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I love that.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing that story with us.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's funny, like I'm I am literally not an interior designer.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand, like I find the boards on Pinterest, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, like that's what I want.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, yeah, why didn't it just like happen?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why isn't that what's happening in my space?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm so confused.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I had a condo years ago that I remodeled, and when I was doing the kitchen, because the kitchen was it was a the building was like a mid-century building, which like I'm obsessed with mid-century, yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: But the kitchen was a galley kitchen, it was laid out in the most horrific way.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we had lived in it, we we had dealt with this horribly laid out kitchen and just been like, what in the hell?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when I redid the kitchen, I was like, uh-uh, like not gonna happen.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember like, what do we do like when we get into the fridge?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's the next step?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we need the pots to be here, we need the sink to be here, like so that we're not like running around the kitchen like crazy people constantly.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Holy shit, I loved that kitchen when I was done with it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, everything is beautiful, everything is easy, the garbage pulled out, like all of the Wi-Fi shit is hidden in there.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And see, you thought it, like, you're not even an interior designer, and you even said, like, that's not your personal strong suit, and you were thinking about that stuff.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, how did these multi-million dollar homes get built?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like that wasn't thought about.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, who's in charge here?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who's in charge here?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, my question for you is like, you've obviously been in a lot of homes.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure a variety too of like you you were just talking about like the more expensive ones, but I'm sure you've been in other types of homes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: What does the impact of like their design have on the energy of the home?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice it when you go in there?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: What is the vibe?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I so yeah, I think yes, I've been in like all these expensive homes, but also I would say like, you know, most of our clients are more like you know, they're well off.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: They have like made something of themselves.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, like maybe they bought their house for, you know, they made a good investment.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: They bought their house for like six to eight hundred or or like more than that, but there's money to put into it, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and but you're often getting we're starting with a space that's very basic.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um but they we want to up-level the home.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so my whole thing from the get-go has never been like, I'm not doing cookie cutter, I rarely do white cabinets.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um no more white cabinets, please.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: No more white cabinets.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or if like there are white cabinets, it's like intentional.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, there is one house where I did it where it's where it's beautiful, but like it wasn't just an afterthought, if that makes sense.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, and and like my whole thing really is bringing someone's personality to life in their home.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think well, one, when you go at it from that perspective, it does change the energy of the home because their energy is like part of the space, but also it's crazy what like a well-designed space can do.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it can literally change everything.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it can change mood, I think it can change relationships, I think it can change how kids behave.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I all clients that with kids are like, but thy kids are gonna ruin everything.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, honestly, of course, kids ruin stuff, things there's wear and tear quicker, like don't get me wrong.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, like I when I go back to my clients' homes with kids that were worried about that, the wear and tear is never as much as they thought it was gonna be.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because when the entire home feels like a well-thought-out space, like kids honestly feel that and respect it more.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's caveats to that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't get me wrong.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not a child, but like it is pretty crazy.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, no, it like can change the kids' behavior.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, it can just change everything.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I have had clients like tell me, like, like you changed our life, which sounds very dramatic, but we spent how much time do we spend in our home?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think it's so much very important.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's just so important.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And like I notice it in my life, like when my house is dirty, when it when it's not like when things are out, like you should see my office right now, things are out, and I'm like, the energy is not as good as when it's like tidy.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And like I think there's something to be said too about like when things have a place and are well thought out as far as design, yeah, it makes your life easier because you're not searching for things, you're not like where the hell did I put that, or like where is this?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And oh my god, like yes, you look you don't have that in your life because like everything is in its right spot and the spot that it's in makes sense.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like yeah, yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, and like a big part of that too, is that the reset time goes down.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when you spend the time to organize it and create a system, and then like I also like when the system's aesthetically pleasing, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but your your time to clean your home, like like I feel like Colby, who I work with, that's my husband.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when Colby and I like reset the house, like we either do it like once or twice a week, but like honestly, we don't spend more than like two hours a week on it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just it like kind of is a well-run machine.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't even say everything's in tip top shape right now.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have some personal decluttering to do.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have like we have that, but it's but because the system is there, like it is um easier to maintain.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: How do you feel like that connects into people's businesses?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like maybe we can specifically talk about like uh intentional office space in homes, like what is the impact on that in people's lives and businesses?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think as entrepreneurs, um we're crazy.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, um, but like honestly, like I think you know, um if you have like money to spend, like a lot of entrepreneurs, like the first thing they spend money on is not their space, is not their office.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're like that doesn't matter, like which you know, I get it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we want to invest in in the business, um and like that is important to grow, like I fully believe that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say, um, like just from personal experience, because we so we actually had an office downtown, and then last year we made the decision to move our office to North Salt Lake because we live in Bountiful, and like kind of downsize our our like actual business office, um, but with that um there like our new space doesn't have a space for Colby and I to work, and so well one, we did invest in that space, you know, like we were trying to downsize, but um I really knew that we needed a complete space for our employees to work in that felt inspiring, that felt good.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, we work for a design company, so it also matters for clients coming in.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: But like first and foremost, I think it it matters for the people that work for us.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it's not it's not perfect, it's it never is, but I think that if you do have employees, like that's important for them to have a space that feels I think on brand, I think that carrying your brand into your space and even where your employees work is really important.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen a lot of situations where maybe like the front looks that way, but then the employees are kind of an afterthought, and I think that's important as well.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: But then also like me and my husband didn't have a space to work, and finally we got to the point where I was like, Okay, like we need to, and it was about a year ago that I was like, We I need an a real office space in our house.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had like had one, um, and this room that I'm in now kind of was my husband's like man cave.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he was like, Okay, not anymore, yeah.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Okay, I'll give up the man cave, like let's do it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, it's like made a world of difference, and like you know, it's not a hundred percent done the way I want it, but like, even just you know, like having the little shelves done or you know, and having our like organizational system and like it feeling like an actual space that I can work in, um has just changed me.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just important as entrepreneurs that like even if it's just a corner in a room, um, you know, the room should feel good.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even if you know, some of us have to like put an office in a guest room or whatever, but it should feel like a space that is inspiring to you if you're trying to grow or even just maintain a business.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree, and I think that your environment does just like it impacts how you feel, it impacts how productive you are.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like we my husband and I before we were married, we lived in a townhome, and there was no office for me.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like I it was two-bedroom, he had a studio, I had my we had our bedroom, and my office was in the kitchen.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, things were neat and tidy, but it felt like I couldn't stop working because it was in the kitchen and the living room, like the whole it was just an open concept like kitchen living room, and then I had my desk and it was like I couldn't separate business from my life, and if I forgot to turn the notifications off on my laptop, we'd be watching a movie, and then that would go off, and then I'd be like, oh my god, back to work mode.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just was affecting my life, and that was like one of the biggest reasons we moved, just because I was like, I can't I need a space that like I can close the door and like not look at it and just be done working, and it really did change, like it changed a lot for me.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: It changed how I showed up for work every day, and yeah, just made me feel more like I had on hours and off hours instead of just like being plugged in all the time, which is already a struggle for someone who works in social media, yeah, for sure.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so important and it's very, very real.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like I get that everyone has a different situation, but I also have always believed as a business owner that if you're like really aligned and you know what you need, like and it's not just like a want, like, like truly, like you know, your business has like proven a proven like track record.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you were like just starting out and you like didn't even have a client and you're like, I need to move so I can have an office for my business that I don't have clients for, like, okay, I think we should like like talk about that.
• 20:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you are on the path and like you have goals and you and an investment of some kind is going to help you like reach those goals.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I like, and it's in line with like everything else.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like really believe that it can move the needle.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: But as business owners, it's like hard because I've certainly thought something was a good idea and that didn't pan out.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is so it's interesting because it's like the more aligned, the better decisions, but also I think part of that is creating the space for alignment.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So 100% like it's both ways.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's yeah, I mean, my office currently, like, it's still not all like it's not awesome.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like my dream office.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about that.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm like, we can talk about that later.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's it is what it is, but like we're still renting, and like I'm probably not gonna put that like bigger investment in until like I own the space or I'm I know I'm gonna be there for five years because of that reason.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I want it to be like a good investment, and this is working for now.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's temporary, it's good enough.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I have my cool little podcast area, like I have my desk, we're good.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, you know, like there's bigger dreams for it, and it's like at one point what I could afford was the small townhome.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And even like I said, when that was the situation that I had, like I still had a desk, I still had a chair, a lap my laptop, my whole setup that was like that was the best that I could do at that time that was like in alignment with where I was at, you know.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, and that's still important because you will see people that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are like I don't even have a you know, like yeah, they're just like working all over, and even like I sometimes do that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I actually am like a weirdo and like sometimes like to work in bed or yeah, sometimes like to work on the couch, but honestly, like you know, I like being mobile, but also like having the dedicated space or the place to then put things away because that's also it is that dedicated space creates a system.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it just you can meet it where you're at at the time, but I you know, I do think I see a lot of people, not just even in an office way, like in a bigger way to um be like, well, you know, I'm just staying here for like we're renting, so I don't want to like buy anything, like I don't care about buying anything.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I tell people all the time, I'm like, okay, I know you're saving up for a house, but hear me out.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna buy that house in a year or two, and you're gonna spend all your money on that house, and then you're gonna have an entire house that you need to fill, and you're not whether you whether the budget's 5k, 10k, 50k, whatever it is, you're not spending the down payment and the moving and everything, and then buying all new furniture all at once.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's insane.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell people most furniture works in all spaces.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and like you can freaking command, command whatever.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I these are just up here with like the I don't know, like the Velcro things, because I'm like, yeah, I'm still putting like I think people get afraid to like put things on the wall like when they're renting for some reason.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but it's like I've never been that way.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, like me either.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I move like before my shit is like unloaded, I'm like, what are what's going on the walls?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this needs to be a home.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I really it's it the different like when you actually create spaces and make them intentional, like it makes a huge difference.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like there's on, I mean, you know, and you can go to IKEA or even like Thrifting or Facebook Marketplace is the Facebook Marketplace is the shit.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: I miss it when it was like low-key new.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I probably maybe five or six years ago, I worked an office job and like low-key would always be on Facebook Marketplace.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like before people knew, it's before like the new wave of mid-century stuff came out, like the repop stuff that's like super low quality.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So people would be listing like vintage mid-century modern dressers for like a hundred dollars.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, ha ha, you don't know what you have, but I do.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, no, no, no.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're so right.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I still have a couple of things from from that time.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: We have like a cool coffee table and like a credenza, like just like, but yeah, I miss it too.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: But like I do, I do think, you know, when you're looking for something specific, like you can usually find it on there within like a week's time.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, some people are gonna be into that, some people are gonna be like, I'm fine doing that, going to pick it up, whatever.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And other people are like, no, I'm going to buy from Target, which I don't care what you do, but you have to do what works for you.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think creating the space is really it it really can shift everything.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as business owners, like I do think the office is important, but I also think uh like your space that you're spending in your off hours is just as important as well.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's going to like rejuvenate you and um like creatively recharge you.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that perspective.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like way dialed in on the office right now, but it's true, like your office could be like the coolest thing ever, but like you're still gonna want to get away from it and have a normal life.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So like everything else is really valuable too.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one question I have.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is kind of like taking us on a different road.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, whatever you want.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's an uptick in awareness of like ADHD tendencies, especially in entrepreneurs.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that's become more of like a people are more aware of it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: How do you feel like having good spaces can support people that might be struggling with things like that so that they can stay focused and like not get distracted and do what they need to do?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is a great question, and I love it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think too, like we're more aware, but I also feel like um probably I mean, wait, how old are you?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like I'm 27.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I feel like um like my I'm about to turn 34.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like probably 35 and younger we were raised, so like I I was probably like one of the first generation like age group to like get a phone, you know, in like middle school or whatever, you know, like yeah, but older than me, like they didn't get to like yeah, they didn't have that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um basically I think we were raised in a way that our brains um like self-inflicted, not on purpose, ADHD, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people actually have it, and then I think it's like kind of all of us.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that this is really important for pretty much everyone because our brains are so much more on, and like we have so many, so much more to worry about.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um there's so many layers to this, but I think the first thing is on that front is the organization, and I get that it's really hard when you have ADHD to create those systems, but I think where I see the biggest miss happen is um like someone, I'm trying to think of like a good example, but like basically people will just try to organize their whole house like at once.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like let me I don't know, something maybe with like shoes where they're like in your closet and in your entryway and like this.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And really the best way to organize and actually design, this is like kind of my thing, is um is one space at a time, which can feel a little hard, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're organizing the entryway, but you look ahead and you're like everything else is effective.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But truly, truly, if I can if whoever is listening to this, and I can teach you one single thing, one space at a time, and that goes for design and organization.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard, but over time it helps with the the ADHD because you start to have systems in every place, and then um you eventually get to a point where everything kind of feels more settled, and there's all these systems, like I was saying like 20 minutes ago, that the reset takes an hour.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, just six.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I hate a freaking reset when it takes too long.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just laughing.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you just stop.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you yeah, you're just like I can't do this.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: You just stop and give up, and then you and then you're like, okay, shove it all back in a closet, and then the the problem almost becomes worse.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So Oh yeah, we're facing this problem right now.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's that's why it's making me laugh.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's because like it's funny, like what you're saying about systems, because my office is also my closet because of the house that we live in.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's no closet space.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a wardrobe in my office that has my clothes, but then I never get ready and I never change in here.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: So then half of my clothes end up in my bedroom, and then the laundry is downstairs.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, oh my gosh.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't have a system, and it's funny because my husband's always, I'll be like, Okay, we need to like, why do all the clothes end up like on top of this dresser in our room?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he'll just be like, because we don't have a system.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm always like, what is this about a system?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: But now I see it.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I see, yeah, we don't have a system.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have a system, which like listen, everyone's like, it's funny because almost everyone that calls me is like, this house doesn't have enough storage, or or they're complaining about it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, not every house actually, it's like actually typically not a storage problem.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's that we all live differently, yeah, and houses are kind of like made like one way.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but you have to figure out like your system within the the space, yeah.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so like as an example, um, you know, most people have um tall laundry baskets.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I I don't know, everything always like ends up at the bottom, like I don't know, and then you can't use these baskets to like fold clothes, whatever.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in my closet, I have like I have a whole system, but like I have like four or five shelves, and then I have hampers that are like wide, like you know, they're like a bigger basket, and then the way I have it is I have like whites, colors, blacks, dry cleaning, and then um a basket on the floor for put away.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just have a put away basket for when I because I do like when I'm getting dressed, I like try on different things or like whatever.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I literally have a basket for put away.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes my closet too ends up in a tornado.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm able to do is I'm able to like put all the laundry in the basket, you know, if something needs dry cleaning, put it there and then put it in the put away basket.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, like right now, my put away basket's full because I didn't have time to like go hang everything up, but there's not the tornado.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like an organized, it's like a strategic mess.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, for sure.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's so much of what I think organization is, or like one of the things we do for a lot of clients is you know, now everyone like orders a hundred things on Amazon, and like, you know, there's always returns, and then people like lose money because they don't do the returns, like that's like a crowding problem I see a lot too.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so for a lot of clients, we've created a system where there's like a returns basket or an exchange basket or a to-do basket, and so like I think you know we uh what I see people do, or what what happens is I see people just like get frustrated, like, why do I always have these returns?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or like why am I always like buying stuff, or like they get like frustrated themselves, and I'm like, if you have a something you need to change about yourself, like that's fine, but also realistically, like, is this how you're gonna live?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And like, if it is, like, let's like create a system for it, you know?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's okay because that's like it's probably not gonna go anywhere, like Amazon and and ordering and having returns and all of that.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna ask you if you have more examples of like main problems you see people have, yeah, but it's also making me laugh, like you just talking, and I'm just like, mm-hmm, like thinking about how I just like don't know where my mail is.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're like, I didn't know I was having you on here yay to tell me all the problems in my life.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking at my desk going, yep, there's no systems over there.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you can just tell if you take a peek.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, what do you feel like like what do you feel like some system problems like that, like returns, um, laundry, stuff like that?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you are there any that people have in offices in particular?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good question.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Offices.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, like honestly, like paperwork.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Paperwork's a big is a big one.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say the system for paperwork hasn't changed in many years.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's like really two options, and I I so one option is you digitize and you get a scanner and you scan everything and you create a Google Google Google Drive or whatever, and that's one system, and then another system is you have a filing cabinet, which has been a system for you know, around for many years.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um paperwork is hard, it's actually I would say one of the kind of like things that is very tedious.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have a solution to it being tedious, yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like you kind of just have to sort it.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, somebody has to.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, somebody has to.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in that regard, that's where I vote to make the system fun.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I do feel like there's like a lot of like file, like people can get like more like fun file folders, or like or what I actually a part of the system I have is I think like I forget the exact colors, but like pink is personal or white is business, and like green is like the you know, like so.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have different file folders for different like topics.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think yeah, but I think part of that is if you create a dedicated office space that feels good, and then you you start with that, then that almost motivates you to can like I guess keep it up.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then creating that system.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also will say that I think a big problem now is that people are like, we live in a digital world, we don't need paper, and like uh there are people that live that way.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would say most people don't live that way.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you still have paper.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, have you ever done taxes?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: You still get papers, yeah, exactly.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And well, it's like the and like receipts, like I mean, you can you can digitize so much, but there's still the paper to digitize, like yeah, you know what I mean?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I think um real I so I guess the point of that is that people probably like plan their office and like they don't think about a filing cabinet, or they're like, I don't need that, or I they don't actually like think they're like we don't need any storage on the desk for paper, and then it piles up.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess like that's the biggest thing is like I think about what you're actually gonna have and use, you know, like it's because when you avoid it, you're like, I'm just not gonna think about that, like it does pile up and then it creates a problem, and then you feel overwhelmed by that problem.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the dedicated space that you invested your time and money into like all of a sudden is overwhelming too, and like it's a stressor instead of like it could be solving your stress and adding to it.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um exactly.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what do you feel like is the minimum effective dose?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: What I mean by that is like if somebody has a limited budget, what changes like where what changes would you have them start with that give them the biggest impact?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a good question.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not actually like the same space for everyone.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it really is what's that space that gives you frustration daily.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then there is I think no matter your budget, I think that there's systems you can create.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, like the dollar store has like bins and baskets and things, like, yeah, they're not my favorite, they're not what I necessarily use for my clients, but they'll they'll get the job done.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I but the two areas or I guess the three areas that I see people stress as people out the most is office, kitchen, um, closet.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: That makes that sense, yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, maybe like a working girl who like gets dressed every day, like the closet, like that might be like their space because they're like waking up to that every day.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: For um for a lot of moms, I feel like it is the kitchen because they're starting their day in the kitchen and like making breakfast for their kids.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, it's you typically I feel like the space where you start and end your day that like feels the most overwhelming.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm gonna like drive it home one space at a time.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: If everything feels overwhelming and then you don't know where to start, but really I always just like to like sit and think, okay, what space really is going to move the needle?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then that motivates you to keep going.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So 100% it does.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm motivated right now.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, gonna clear my schedule for this weekend.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I got some shit.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I will not be leaving the house.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I have two more questions for you.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: The first one is if somebody is looking, because a lot of the people that listen to this podcast maybe are uh probably looking to buy a home within the next couple of years.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um for people who are looking to buy a home, maybe it's their first home, whatever.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: They maybe they don't have the budget for like hiring out an interior designer.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what elements should they be looking for to see if it's like a good fit for their lifestyle and their business and their the way they go about things?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any tips?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great question.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, this is like getting, I think, more into like mindset and stuff, but I do I am a huge well, so I think kind of going back to what I was saying about dance and choreography in my head, and then choreographing spaces in my head.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think like I've always pictured things in my head and like played it out and like planned the future in my head.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's funny because I'm like, oh, was I just like manifesting my whole You're clairvoyant.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm afraid to tell you, but I'm clairvoyant.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I'm a little bit, a little bit, but we can get into that later.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but like, but truly I do believe in like sitting down and designing your your life.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so really thinking about like okay, what does that look like?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of if if you're in your home and you're having like the perfect day or the perfect night, like what is what does that really involve?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that working in your home?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that um hosting people for parties?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that you are gonna run your business out of your home and there would be employees, so you need a space like that.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think um a lot of people get caught up on like the closets, is there a pantry?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like I actually think you can get really creative in this home is like not a small house.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: We it's like I don't even know, like three thousand square feet or something, and we still don't have a pantry.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I Think probably people probably walked through this home when it was for sale and were like, doesn't have a pantry.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got like cabinets and put them in our dining room and created a pantry.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and I also did that when we lived in Sugar House.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had like a bookshelf in the dining room and like created a pantry.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um thinking more about how you live in the space, because I think most storage solutions um and like things you need can be created.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that perspective because yeah, I think especially like I mean, we obviously live in Salt Lake City, Utah, where like most of the homes are older homes, and like apparently they wore the same thing every day.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently, apparently they don't need a freaking pantry because yeah, we don't have those and we don't have closets.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um literally.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: I love like I love you saying like storage is something that you can find a solution for.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's more important that like the home, the area, the space, whatever, like supports your the the way you want to live your life because you can just you can add a pantry, you can add a closet or a dresser or whatever.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that for sure.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so good.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, in closing, I want to ask if you could give yourself, your younger self, one piece of advice, what would it be?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: This could be business, personal, whatever.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm, that's such a good question.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like, you know, probably something like your work isn't everything, like um, it's a part, like it's a part of life, but I think having a full life in all areas, um, and really like having joy um in everything you do.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, like I think in in terms of like spaces, like um, you know, having joy in your like if you can have joy in your spaces and and that feels calming and peaceful, then like that's success.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that so much.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I I think you're obviously a high achiever, I'm a high achiever.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: The people listening to this podcast are high achievers.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like it can be, it can feel like okay, when I have this many clients, when I have this income, when I have this house, when I have whatever, like that's when I can be free and happy and whatever.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, what is life if you're constantly doing that?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like the joy can happen right now.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, a hundred and twenty million percent.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when we go through life thinking when I have X, I will be.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like that that often doesn't work.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: We never get to that point and have that joy.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think like just finding joy in the everyday and like having fun and like um really thinking about what is going to bring kind of happiness and success to all areas of your life.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I like the word joy over like happiness, really, because I think it's really more about that, and like it it ends up ha bringing a more fuller life, and I think in the end, having more sustainable success.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, yeah, you're gonna get happy or maybe feel a little joy when like you sign a client, but oh yeah, like how long does that last?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like five minutes, like you know, it's like woo, holy shit, I have all this work to do, and uh it's it's about like have like carrying that thread of like joy and happiness and bliss, like through all the moments.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love that so much.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your knowledge with us.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: We'll link all your stuff and yeah, thank you so much.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, okay, we'll talk to you later.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, bye.