Latest / The Parenting Podcast / The Ones We Think Are Fine | Ep. 234

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The Ones We Think Are Fine | Ep. 234 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Christie: Oh, they're easy.
• 0:00
  Christie: They always have their backpack ready.
• 0:02
  Christie: They always have their homework done.
• 0:05
  Christie: They don't complain about what's for dinner.
• 0:07
  Christie: I don't have to worry about them.
• 0:08
  Christie: They're fine.
• 0:12
  Speaker: And maybe they really are.
• 0:15
  Speaker: There's a lot to appreciate about a child who makes family life run a little more smoothly.
• 0:22
  Speaker: But just because they don't ask much of us, doesn't mean there isn't a lot going on in their hearts.
• 0:31
  Speaker: And I wonder how much of that we never know unless we take the time to draw it out
• 0:48
  Cheryl: Well, hey, you all.
• 0:50
  Cheryl: How are y'all doing today?
• 0:51
  Joanne: Doing well.
• 0:52
  Joanne: Doing great, thanks.
• 0:53
  Cheryl: Good.
• 0:53
  Cheryl: Enjoying this fall weather?
• 0:55
  Joanne: I love the fall.
• 0:56
  Joanne: Oh, yeah, I love it.
• 0:57
  Cheryl: Oh, it's beautiful.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: So listeners, we have Joanne and Christie back in here in the recording studio, and, you know, I was thinking one of the things that, is talked about regularly in parenting circles and on a parenting podcast and so forth is the difficult child.
• 1:16
  Joanne: Mm.
• 1:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: What do you do, you know...
• 1:18
  Cheryl: I don't know if the tornado child or the-
• 1:22
  Joanne: Right.
• 1:23
  Joanne: Yeah
• 1:24
  Cheryl: the one that reacts
• 1:25
  Cheryl A: or doesn't cooperate.
• 1:27
  Joanne: mm.
• 1:28
  Joanne: The
• 1:28
  Cheryl: squeaky
• 1:28
  Joanne: wheel.
• 1:29
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: You know, the squeaky wheel.
• 1:31
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 1:31
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: However, something that I thought about is the child who's not.
• 1:39
  Joanne: Mm.
• 1:40
  Joanne: Mm.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 1:40
  Joanne: that's true.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: The one that
• 1:42
  Cheryl A: doesn't demand The oil-
• 1:44
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 1:44
  Cheryl: and is cooperative or even maybe not particularly quieter, but is responsible and does their homework and maybe comes back and cleans up in the kitchen behind everybody.
• 1:59
  Joanne: Right.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: You know what I'm talking about?
• 2:00
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 2:01
  Joanne: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:01
  Cheryl: And my concern is, and was guilty of it, of appreciating it-
• 2:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 2:08
  Cheryl A: but maybe overloooking the deeper needs of that child.
• 2:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 2:11
  Joanne: Oh,
• 2:12
  Christie: yeah.
• 2:13
  Christie: I can relate with that, for sure.
• 2:15
  Christie: Yeah,
• 2:16
  Joanne: definitely.
• 2:17
  Christie: And I, I think a lot of times it's the firstborn.
• 2:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 2:21
  Christie: It can be that, but it can be any birth order, and-
• 2:23
  Joanne: The easy, responsible one.
• 2:24
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 2:25
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Joanne: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 2:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:27
  Christie: They, they just get kind of lost in the mix, uh-huh.
• 2:30
  Cheryl: You know?
• 2:31
  Cheryl: Um- I'm just thinking about their hearts and thinking about, um, what happened with me my childhood.
• 2:41
  Cheryl: and my parenting.
• 2:42
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 2:43
  Cheryl: And I just got sucked into this, mindset of really appreciating easier rather than harder.
• 2:52
  Joanne: Sure.
• 2:52
  Joanne: Well, yeah, I think we all do- Yeah.
• 2:54
  Joanne: because it's easy.
• 2:56
  Christie: Right.
• 2:57
  Christie: When you wake up in the morning, that's what you're hoping for.
• 2:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Christie: Is that everything goes smoothly, and you don't wanna, you know, stir the pot.
• 3:04
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 3:04
  Christie: If there's...
• 3:05
  Christie: No news is good news.
• 3:06
  Joanne: Exactly.
• 3:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:07
  Cheryl: However, and see, and I can have a lot of guilt on myself on this, if we're talking about this.
• 3:13
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:14
  Cheryl: And what I don't wanna do is bring in this going,"Here's another place you failed, parents."
• 3:19
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 3:19
  Cheryl: You know?
• 3:20
  Cheryl: So I don't wanna go that direction.
• 3:22
  Christie: Right.
• 3:22
  Christie: No.
• 3:23
  Cheryl: Let's talk about this.
• 3:24
  Cheryl: Let's think about the child who is cooperative.
• 3:28
  Cheryl: What other adjectives would we describe the kind of child-
• 3:31
  Joanne: Yeah, compliant Well-behaved yeah.
• 3:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm,
• 3:33
  Joanne: yeah.
• 3:33
  Joanne: Right.
• 3:34
  Joanne: The, not strong-willed.
• 3:35
  Joanne: I have a friend whose kids are very compliant, and I feel like, and my kids, like, we had some that were easier and some that were a little more strong-willed.
• 3:44
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:44
  Joanne: Um, but yeah, the compliant ones who just kinda did what they were told, it's like
• 3:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:50
  Joanne: That's the dream, right?
• 3:52
  Christie: Right.
• 3:53
  Christie: Yeah, same.
• 3:54
  Christie: I had some that were...
• 3:56
  Christie: I, I feel like all of my kids were strong-willed, but some were- strong-willed in, uh, the sense of justice.
• 4:02
  Christie: So they were the well-behaved ones that- Yeah but wanted things to be right and just and- Mm-hmm the way they should be.
• 4:09
  Christie: Um, so that makes it easier to parent those kids- Yeah because they're strong-willed for the things you want them to be- Mm-hmm strong-willed for.
• 4:15
  Cheryl: Oh, that's really good.
• 4:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: It's your perspective on it.
• 4:20
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 4:20
  Christie: So those are the things you celebrate because- Uh-huh it makes your life easier.
• 4:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: And then what happens when it's celebrated, the danger is that becomes your identity.
• 4:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:30
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Cheryl: I mean, okay, that's what happened to me.
• 4:33
  Cheryl: 'Cause we talk, I was a good kid, I was responsible, I did all the right things in school- Mm-hmm and the right things at home, and then that totally became my identity.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: I'm do the right things.
• 4:45
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: And
• 4:47
  Cheryl A: honestly, we had A tornado child in my home growing up.
• 4:51
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 4:51
  Cheryl A: And so there was a lot of, uh, friction, a lot of attention drawn to that, and it's true, my affirmation was being so much the help.
• 5:01
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:01
  Cheryl: So I wanted to be more of a help-
• 5:03
  Christie: Right.
• 5:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm because then I got the affirmation, and I got the attention.
• 5:07
  Cheryl: 'Cause otherwise- You
• 5:09
  Cheryl A: often sometimes just Fade into the woodwork when there's some squeakier wheels- Yes very squeaky wheels.
• 5:16
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Joanne: Because that's the way to get attention.
• 5:17
  Joanne: Yeah, but then that later can become people pleasing, which we've talked about on here- Mm-hmm which is the flip side of that.
• 5:23
  Joanne: And I know, I, I remember when we'd go through a season where one kid would just be really going through a rough time, um, just the word like hijack would come into my mind.
• 5:34
  Joanne: Mm.
• 5:34
  Joanne: Mm.
• 5:34
  Joanne: And like,"Okay, this person is hijacking this family," and I'd just try to be like,"Okay, this isn't really fair to everybody else."
• 5:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:43
  Joanne: You know?
• 5:44
  Joanne: So, but that is the struggle, right?
• 5:46
  Joanne: Right.
• 5:46
  Joanne: Is like to recognize it, and then how do you stop that- Mm-hmm and then create time and space to reach out to the other ones?
• 5:53
  Christie: Well, and I think you used a really helpful word, a s- season, because it can be, I mean, it might be that one p- child or person in the family, it, they're always the squeaky wheel.
• 6:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Christie: They're always- Yeah but it could also be a season.
• 6:08
  Christie: Maybe an injury or an illness has made one child kind of come to the forefront and need a lot of attention.
• 6:15
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 6:16
  Christie: Um, but m- if there can be a breaking point of the season ending, it might be a good time to circle back with the other kids and check in and say- Right"Hey, this has been going on," you know?
• 6:27
  Cheryl: Okay, so let's set crisis out.
• 6:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: You know, because there are crises in family, and there are needs that do supersede everything else.
• 6:37
  Cheryl: So let's set that aside- Mm-hmm because that's unique.
• 6:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: And I'm listening to you, and I'm thinking on myself and my parenting and my childhood.
• 6:48
  Cheryl: What do y'all think about this?
• 6:50
  Cheryl: This child we're talking about, that's compliant, responsible, all of these things, and we don't want to overlook them.
• 7:00
  Cheryl: We want to meet their needs and all of that.
• 7:03
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: What about if we looked at it with, um- Rather
• 7:09
  Cheryl A: than waiting for a need-
• 7:11
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 7:12
  Cheryl: that we reach out to them.
• 7:14
  Cheryl: Like you were saying, Joanne,
• 7:17
  Christie: Mm.
• 7:17
  Cheryl: And that we take a proactive, intentional step to reach out to them i
• 7:24
  Cheryl A: don't Know if I ever voiced a real need to my parents.
• 7:29
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:30
  Cheryl: Because I kind of felt like they had so much on their plate, and like I say, the squeaky wheel was so loud.
• 7:37
  Cheryl: Um, I don't think I ever really...
• 7:40
  Cheryl: unless I had to have something for school.
• 7:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:42
  Cheryl: But other than that, I like this idea of reaching out-
• 7:48
  Joanne: Yeah
• 7:48
  Cheryl: and connecting.
• 7:49
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 7:50
  Joanne: Instead of waiting for a need to arise or a crisis- Yeah that you had to respond to.
• 7:55
  Joanne: No, I li- I like that proactive approach and just kind of like you, Cheryl, and I think some of it, like Christie, we've talked about being a kid of the'80s.
• 8:02
  Joanne: Like, I was kind of, like, left alone a lot.
• 8:04
  Joanne: Oh, yeah.
• 8:04
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  Joanne: And so, one thing I tried to do with my kids, so I had three, is to maybe just have a little bit of time in the week, and not a lot- Yeah'cause I really think in this instance it's not so much the quantity of time, but just having some good quality- Yeah.
• 8:18
  Joanne: Yeah time of connection.
• 8:20
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 8:20
  Joanne: So, um, just to try to, like, build a little bit of connection before, like you said, waiting for them to behave badly and wanting that attention or behave really good to get attention.
• 8:34
  Joanne: You don't want these patterns to develop is, is kind of what I think we're talking about, right?
• 8:39
  Cheryl: I do.
• 8:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:39
  Cheryl: That is really good.
• 8:41
  Cheryl: How sensitive of you to do that.
• 8:44
  Cheryl: See, I like it.
• 8:45
  Cheryl: That's reaching out with intentionality- When it's not their birthday.
• 8:51
  Christie: Right.
• 8:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:52
  Cheryl: Because you know, typically you celebrate a birthday, and that's the problem.
• 8:56
  Cheryl: If they're really good kids, then they get the A, or they get the scholarship, or they get some award- Mm and you make a big deal about it.
• 9:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:05
  Cheryl: And then that becomes their identity.
• 9:07
  Cheryl: "Oh, I need to keep..." I'm saying for me- Mm particularly, and I know some, some of my children, that becomes,"Okay, that's how I can keep feeding, uh, the need to be wanted and seen- Right and treasured."
• 9:22
  Joanne: The affirmation.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:24
  Christie: Yeah, it just reinforces the, the pattern.
• 9:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:28
  Christie: And in turn can bring some shame on the other sibling.
• 9:32
  Christie: I mean, it can get real messy if- Y- if you really get- Yeah in there.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Christie: But I, I don't know.
• 9:36
  Christie: I think maybe we back up a little bit and just acknowledge what some of the needs might be for the- Okay kid that's not making a lot of noise.
• 9:44
  Christie: 'Cause what I have said myself, and often hear o- other parents say is,"Oh, they're easy.
• 9:50
  Christie: I don't have to worry about this one." Yeah.
• 9:52
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 9:52
  Christie: You know, they always have their backpack ready.
• 9:54
  Christie: They always have their homework done.
• 9:56
  Christie: They don't complain about what's for dinner.
• 9:59
  Christie: I don't have to worry about them.
• 10:00
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:00
  Christie: They're fine.
• 10:01
  Christie: And so what would we say to a parent- That's really good what could not be fine that we're missing?
• 10:07
  Cheryl: Ooh.
• 10:08
  Joanne: Wow.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 10:09
  Joanne: That's, that's a tough one,
• 10:11
  Christie: yeah.
• 10:11
  Christie: Right that's a- And not to induce fear for any- No parents, because they might really just be fine.
• 10:17
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Christie: But what we're saying is it's worth checking in and just- Yeah seeing, am I missing something?
• 10:23
  Cheryl: The self-erasing, you know?
• 10:25
  Cheryl: "Oh, I need to serve and I don't matter." Mm.
• 10:28
  Joanne: Mm.
• 10:29
  Joanne: Right.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: My parents don't seem to think I matter, or in the scheme of what's going on in our family, I don't seem to matter, and they just slip into that crack.
• 10:38
  Joanne: Right.
• 10:39
  Joanne: Mm.
• 10:39
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 10:39
  Cheryl: So this is the hard-
• 10:42
  Joanne: Yeah
• 10:42
  Cheryl: okay?
• 10:43
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: Now, what are some more?
• 10:44
  Cheryl: I like what you had, was the intentionality-
• 10:47
  Joanne: Right
• 10:47
  Cheryl: of giving some time.
• 10:48
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 10:49
  Cheryl: What are some other ways?
• 10:50
  Cheryl: What are some other ideas for how parents can do this?
• 10:54
  Cheryl: 'Cause, um, we want to parent well and to love everybody.
• 10:59
  Christie: Mm.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: So how would we love this child in a special way?
• 11:04
  Christie: And the thing that comes to my mind is, um, not making assumptions about your kiddos and, and being curious about them.
• 11:12
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 11:12
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 11:13
  Christie: You know?
• 11:13
  Christie: 'Cause it's- That's so good.
• 11:14
  Christie: Talk about that it, that is an assumption to think, quote-unquote,"They're fine," rather than asking questions out of curiosity.
• 11:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:22
  Christie: Or to think that they really do love spaghetti.
• 11:25
  Christie: Maybe they were just liking spaghetti'cause everyone else likes spaghetti, and it's- Oh the easy thing.
• 11:29
  Christie: You know, ask- asking those good questions and, like you said, Joanne, spending enough time that you're getting one-on-one time with them that's quality so that you can have those conversations and know them as individuals, not just circumstantial pawns to move in the family- Mm-hmm dynamics.
• 11:47
  Cheryl: And I like that.
• 11:48
  Cheryl: Like, the spaghetti example, another thing might also be,"Oh, let's just have spaghetti'cause it's easier on Mom," and she's really overwhelmed or-
• 11:56
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 11:56
  Joanne: Right
• 11:57
  Cheryl: you know.
• 11:57
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:58
  Cheryl: Consider it like that.
• 11:59
  Cheryl: But I like this word curious.
• 12:01
  Joanne: Mm.
• 12:02
  Cheryl: Because if we're really curious about someone-
• 12:06
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 12:06
  Cheryl A: then we make intentional time.
• 12:08
  Cheryl A: We ask questions, not with an agenda.
• 12:12
  Cheryl A: I'm not trying to find out how are you feeling.
• 12:16
  Cheryl A: Now, I wanna know that.
• 12:17
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 12:17
  Cheryl A: But I'm trying to ask questions because you care because
• 12:20
  Cheryl: we're curious
• 12:21
  Cheryl A: about something.
• 12:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Cheryl: ask them about something that they're interested in.
• 12:26
  Cheryl: So what is it you like about cats?
• 12:28
  Cheryl: Tell me about it.
• 12:29
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 12:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Cheryl: And come back and say,"You know, you were talking about that last week.
• 12:34
  Cheryl: Why do you like cats better than dogs?"
• 12:36
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:37
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:37
  Cheryl A: because that says"I value you so much.
• 12:39
  Cheryl A: I was thinking about what you were saying." Right.
• 12:42
  Cheryl A: "And now I want to know more about you."
• 12:44
  Christie: Right.
• 12:44
  Cheryl: Tell me about it."
• 12:45
  Christie: And this is something, like you were saying earlier, Cheryl, that it's easy to go to a place of guilt and regret- It's true in something like this.
• 12:53
  Christie: That's something that is easy for me, that I have to fight against that.
• 12:58
  Christie: Um, and in that, I'll say one thing I've learned is- If you do have a people pleaser, it might take time- Yeah to get in there because first 10 answers- Mm-hmm to those questions might still be the people pleasing answer.
• 13:14
  Christie: They might say,"Oh, my favorite color's blue," because you bought them a blue suitcase last week- Right and they want you to, you know, that kind- Yeah of thing, and it just, it does take a lot of time and patience to get into a kiddo's world sometime.
• 13:27
  Joanne: Right, yeah.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: But this intentionality is the good parenting.
• 13:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:32
  Cheryl: Not the 10 answers you didn't recognize, and I just really- Mm wanna emphasize that Yeah because I did want to love my children well.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: Uh-huh.
• 13:41
  Cheryl: I still want to love my children well.
• 13:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:43
  Cheryl: And I want to learn from these kind of things, and then begin to improve how I interact.
• 13:50
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: And then being also the teacher and the parent, that I am not making it a teaching moment.
• 13:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Joanne: Yeah, and al- Or a
• 14:00
  Cheryl: lesson
• 14:00
  Joanne: and accepting them, like, unconditionally.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: To
• 14:03
  Joanne: me- So especially if there's, uh, s- interests that you do not care about or maybe music- Mm you do not like.
• 14:10
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:11
  Joanne: And just making judgments about things.
• 14:14
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Joanne: I think it's really important, especially if they get a little older, you know, in teen years, but just to kind of accept them.
• 14:20
  Joanne: But even when they're younger too.
• 14:21
  Joanne: Like, say you were super, you know, girly when you were little, and then you have a daughter who is more- Yeah you know, into soccer ra- Mm-hmm and working with her hands, just to accept them as they are as an individual.
• 14:35
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Joanne: Yes.
• 14:35
  Joanne: That's something that I have seen, is that when the child is not like what you thought they would be or very different, just having that point of connection is harder.
• 14:45
  Joanne: But Cheryl, like, what you have taught me in the past is just being a good student of your child.
• 14:50
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 14:50
  Joanne: And that doesn't take a lot of time.
• 14:52
  Joanne: It just takes an awareness to observe.
• 14:55
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:55
  Joanne: Like, who is this individual,, and not, making assumptions like you said, Christie.
• 15:00
  Joanne: Right.
• 15:00
  Joanne: I think that in itself and y- just knowing them and then respecting them as their own individual- Mm-hmm I think speaks a lot of volumes, or it speaks a lot to your love and attention.
• 15:12
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:12
  Joanne: Yeah, that's true.
• 15:12
  Joanne: And that does not take a lot of time or resources.
• 15:15
  Christie: I really am glad you said that,'cause, um, you're right.
• 15:19
  Christie: It do- some things don't take a lot of time.
• 15:20
  Christie: You're still gonna spend the same hour- going to buy the shoes as you- Mm-hmm you know, one way or another, but you can be intentional with your words and in your conversation.
• 15:30
  Christie: Or you've gotta go get dinner, so, you know, w- on the way to dinner, have those conversations and maximize that time, but not saying,"Oh, you don't want those blue shoes, do you?" You know?
• 15:41
  Christie: Right.
• 15:42
  Christie: Mm.
• 15:42
  Christie: Instead- Yeah say, asking,"Tell me about why you've picked those shoes.
• 15:46
  Christie: I love that." Yeah.
• 15:47
  Christie: "You chose something a little different than you got last time." Very different, yeah.
• 15:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:50
  Cheryl: I love how you said that.
• 15:52
  Cheryl: That was so good.
• 15:53
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:54
  Cheryl: Positive, even though they probably know you would never wear blue shoes.
• 15:57
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:58
  Cheryl: This is really helpful because, uh, one of the things that's helpful to me is not just the conversation, but like a good microscope, I need to tune my focus where I'm- Yeah actually really listening, even if it's for two minutes.
• 16:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: That I'm really listening because I want to learn, and I want to know them, and I want to love them.
• 16:23
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:23
  Cheryl: Not with a big agenda that I'm gonna change their life from here out.
• 16:28
  Christie: Right.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: But I really care about you.
• 16:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:31
  Cheryl: So tell me about this...
• 16:32
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: And I liked what you said.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: And, cycle back to what you said, Joanne, about, like, music.
• 16:38
  Cheryl: Um, because there are styles, and some kids really care about music.
• 16:45
  Cheryl: Uh, some of my kids love Broadway musicals.
• 16:49
  Christie: Mm.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: And I'm so glad for them.
• 16:53
  Cheryl: But what I want to do is say,"Show me.
• 16:56
  Cheryl: Which one do you like?
• 16:57
  Cheryl: And I have to slow down- Uh-huh and listen to something that wouldn't be my normal choice, And- Yeah I, I knew a mom, and I think she has all grown kids now, and, uh, one of hers that w- kind of fell into this category, she had remembered that
• 17:16
  Cheryl A: one child had Mentioned some artist, and it wasn't someone that came up on her feed regularly, or her Spotify list or anything.
• 17:26
  Cheryl A: And what she does is look the artist up and went and listened to the playlist and listened to the words, the music, and then began processing, and I think it's gonna be so powerful.
• 17:41
  Joanne: Mm.
• 17:42
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: Because I don't think she's done it yet, but if she goes back and say,"You know, I've heard you mention so and so before."
• 17:49
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:49
  Cheryl: And I just went and listened and here's what I liked about it.
• 17:54
  Cheryl: Da, da, da, da, da."
• 17:55
  Christie: Mm.
• 17:55
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 17:55
  Cheryl: "What is it that you like about it?" And I think that child's soul will double in size to think you actually went and listened-
• 18:06
  Joanne: Mm-hmm to
• 18:06
  Cheryl: a musician that, or an artist that- Yeah I suggested.
• 18:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Cheryl: When it's not anywhere in your feed.
• 18:12
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 18:12
  Cheryl: Doesn't that sound powerful to you?
• 18:13
  Christie: Yeah, for
• 18:14
  Joanne: sure.
• 18:14
  Joanne: No, that's great.
• 18:15
  Joanne: And then also, to not m- make fun of or ridicule- Mm.
• 18:21
  Joanne: Mm'cause I, I can be very sarcastic and make a joke about if something I don't like.
• 18:26
  Joanne: Uh if there's a type of music I'm not into, and I've learned the hard way that oh, that's not really respectful- Right of my kid.
• 18:35
  Joanne: Or, you know, that's their interest, not mine.
• 18:37
  Joanne: And to be really, really careful about not making fun of or ridiculing,'cause if that quieter child ever does open up or share something, they won't ever do that again- Yes because they don't wanna get ridiculed or made fun of.
• 18:49
  Christie: I'm so glad you said that- Yeah because, I mean, we don't want family cultures that you have to walk on eggshells around each other.
• 18:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Christie: But I think we could do a whole episode on how humor can hurt-
• 19:01
  Joanne: Oh
• 19:01
  Christie: relationships.
• 19:01
  Christie: Right.
• 19:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 19:03
  Joanne: Like, it's not mean-spirited, but sometimes the joking can come across- Yes or feel that way.
• 19:07
  Christie: Especially the quieter, more introverted- Yeah kids, if they hear...
• 19:12
  Christie: Even, uh, I, I'm thinking of something that happened in our family where it was not even said to them- Mm-hmm but the potential that the thing could be said, that they heard to another child could be said- Oh to them- Right.
• 19:25
  Christie: Oh or about them- Mm-hmm just made them freeze and didn't wanna share because they're like,"Oh, that could be me.
• 19:31
  Christie: You know, and so we just have to be really thoughtful in those types of situations.
• 19:36
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:36
  Joanne: I agree.
• 19:37
  Cheryl: And what I'm hearing from you is that I need to slow down.
• 19:41
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 19:43
  Cheryl: I need to have enough bandwidth, and I understand I couldn't have spelled bandwidth at one
• 19:52
  Christie: point- Right in my birth time.
• 19:54
  Christie: Yeah, you of anyone- Didn't have the time to spell it.
• 19:56
  Cheryl: Definitely.
• 19:57
  Cheryl: I couldn't have spelled it.
• 19:58
  Cheryl: And so talking recently with a single mom, and she is chasing her tail all the time.
• 20:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Cheryl: She is running and running- Oh, yeah in circles.
• 20:08
  Cheryl: And one of the things that we're kinda talking about is where can you get just a little more bandwidth?
• 20:15
  Cheryl: Because what I don't want our listeners to say,"Oh, great, now I have something else I have to do."
• 20:22
  Christie: Mm.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: So their plate is already full.
• 20:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: And then now I have a big scoop of mashed potatoes.
• 20:27
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 20:27
  Cheryl: What am I gonna do, dump it on top- Mm.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: Yeah of everything?
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Instead, like what we're kind of trying to process through is how can I have a little more space on that plate for something like this?
• 20:41
  Christie: Right.
• 20:42
  Cheryl: And that we work it in, like something you were saying, driving or something that, okay, we're driving to the store for whatever.
• 20:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: And that I'm gonna be very intentional about this conversation, thinking about this is someone I want to make that bridge so safe-
• 20:59
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 20:59
  Cheryl: and they feel they can come out and walk a little bit.
• 21:02
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 21:03
  Cheryl: And that I engage and don't overpower them, because sometimes, particularly an extroverted verbalizing person like I am, I can respond a little too much.
• 21:14
  Joanne: Mm.
• 21:15
  Cheryl: And that I need to do that listening a whole lot more and go- Right"Oh, really?
• 21:19
  Cheryl: Tell me more." And th- that's, that's it We just have to work this kind of thing into our rhythms- Mm rather than say,"Oh-
• 21:30
  Joanne: Right
• 21:30
  Cheryl: another area of parenting I'm failing in.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: Now I don't- Yeah just have to take care- Right.
• 21:35
  Cheryl: Yeah of the squeaky wheels, now I have, I have to- Right get out a different kind of lubricant."
• 21:40
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 21:40
  Cheryl: And instead of that, let's try to look into where can I have bandwidth.
• 21:45
  Joanne: Yeah, no, this doesn't require, like, an hour-long date with every child- Uh-huh every week or, you know, this is, uh, like what you said, Christie, is making it, like, a part of your routine.
• 21:54
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Joanne: Or like you said, Cheryl, about just, um, as you're going about life, just being more aware and more intentional in those moments- Right or just paying attention to who's eating the spaghetti or, you know.
• 22:06
  Joanne: And like,"Hey, maybe you don't like that.
• 22:08
  Joanne: What do you like?" Or-
• 22:09
  Christie: Right
• 22:10
  Joanne: y- just trying to be aware.
• 22:11
  Christie: I remember a season where my older three kids were in a class, um, at a certain time for a couple months, and my youngest wasn't participating, and we would go to this one little sandwich shop and wait for the class to be over.
• 22:26
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 22:26
  Christie: And she still...
• 22:27
  Christie: I mean, it was only a handful of months, and she still remembers those Wednesday dates that we would have.
• 22:33
  Christie: Oh, wow.
• 22:34
  Christie: Mm.
• 22:34
  Christie: And we had to wait somewhere, you know?
• 22:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:36
  Christie: It didn't have to be...
• 22:37
  Christie: We could have just gone to Walgreens and got our medicine- or something.
• 22:41
  Christie: But, um, I didn't even mean for it to, to work that way.
• 22:45
  Christie: It was just in an area where we didn't have anything else to do, and so- Mm that's what ended up happening.
• 22:50
  Christie: But that was an accidental, intentional- Yeah thing that happened- Yeah where we got to have that little date time.
• 22:57
  Christie: So I think finding times like that, that you already have vacancy in your schedule, it could just be a killing time.
• 23:04
  Christie: Or I remember taking kids with me to drop a kid off.
• 23:09
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:09
  Christie: You know,'cause I mean, drive time is just golden.
• 23:11
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 23:11
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Christie: I could have left them at home with Dad, you know, to get their bath and get ready for bed or whatever they needed to do, but I think planning your time a little more intentionally can, can be a winner.
• 23:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: And again, we're not talking about, you know, a full week- Yeah or many hours.
• 23:28
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:28
  Cheryl: And I'm looking right here on the table in front of me, this enemy, the phone.
• 23:33
  Christie: Yes.
• 23:33
  Cheryl: Because the tendency is.
• 23:35
  Cheryl: Double tasking- We can be driving somewhere, but my focus can't be double task.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: But anyway.
• 23:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:42
  Christie: Right.
• 23:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:43
  Cheryl: I need to say,"I'm putting this down," whether it's my phone or the 10,000 other things I need to do.
• 23:50
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:51
  Cheryl: Like what you're saying, you could have gone shopping or picked up a prescription.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: But just to carve that little bit- Yeah of time out, and I am focusing- Mm-hmm
• 24:01
  Cheryl A: on you and what would you like to do?
• 24:03
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Joanne: Which might mean you might have to let some things slide a little bit.
• 24:07
  Joanne: And I- Yeah you know, my mom gave me some really great advice when my kids were little babies.
• 24:11
  Joanne: She said,"You know what?
• 24:12
  Joanne: The dishes will always be there, but your baby will not." Mm, isn't that right?
• 24:16
  Joanne: "They're gonna grow fast." And I was like,"Done.
• 24:18
  Joanne: I don't like the dishes anyways." So no, but the, but the principle of that- Yeah was so I, I really appreciate it, is like, you know, I might not have an immaculate home while my kids are toddlers and making a mess- Uh-huh and babies need rocking and...
• 24:31
  Joanne: Or when they're playing and they wanna you know, show me,"Look, Mom." Yeah.
• 24:34
  Joanne: "Look, Mom." You know, like, and all the things.
• 24:37
  Joanne: Um, but just having to be okay with that- Yeah and letting some things go.
• 24:41
  Joanne: Um- Oh, great which I think can be harder in this era where we're constantly seeing these false pictures on social media- Oh, I know and everything- Yes of like these moms who seemingly do it all, have these amazingly decorated houses and- Yes kids immaculately dressed, and it's just, it's fake.
• 25:00
  Joanne: I mean-
• 25:00
  Christie: It's so fake.
• 25:01
  Joanne: Yeah, it's so fake.
• 25:01
  Christie: I know.
• 25:02
  Christie: I appreciate the influencers.
• 25:03
  Christie: Have you seen the ones that, that normalize real houses?
• 25:06
  Joanne: Oh, yeah.
• 25:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Christie: I have.
• 25:07
  Christie: They'll go around and, uh, show like,"This is my sink with dishes in it." Mm-hmm.
• 25:11
  Christie: "This is my laundry pile- that I haven't folded." And- Right I appreciate those.
• 25:15
  Christie: I also think as they're getting older, it's very tempting to delegate all the errand running to them and- True and do your own thing and kind of go in separate ways.
• 25:27
  Joanne: Right.
• 25:27
  Christie: But what I found in that season is just being available.
• 25:31
  Christie: Sometimes it would be like crickets, especially like on a Saturday morning.
• 25:36
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 25:36
  Christie: You know, you're waiting for them to wake up- Yeah and they're sleeping- Yeah till 11 o- 12 o'clock.
• 25:40
  Christie: Um, but if I were to fill that time up away from them-
• 25:45
  Cheryl: Yeah
• 25:46
  Christie: I wouldn't have been available for some really precious times.
• 25:49
  Christie: I mean, the times that they would just come in the kitchen and hop on the kitchen counter and- Yeah start telling me about their evening the night before.
• 25:56
  Christie: True, yeah.
• 25:56
  Christie: That's where the good stuff happens.
• 25:58
  Christie: And so sometimes it feels like it would be easy to just say,"Oh, they're fine.
• 26:03
  Christie: They're old enough, you know, to, to be on their own." Yeah.
• 26:07
  Christie: But keeping those spaces open, I think is important.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: That's really good- Yes and particularly- very counter-cultural.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: You're talking about social media and more and more More efficiency, more apps, more everything.
• 26:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:20
  Cheryl: We have to fit this in.
• 26:21
  Cheryl: Now we have to exercise, and I have to do this, and I have to do this, and we have to worry about w- our nutrition, and we have to worry about the world, and we have to worry about- All of that, those are good.
• 26:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:33
  Cheryl: But I
• 26:34
  Cheryl A: just think sometimes less is More.
• 26:37
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:37
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:37
  Cheryl: We've got to have it where they don't feel like they're intruding, particularly, I would say, teens and up-
• 26:45
  Christie: Yes.
• 26:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm where they don't feel like,"Oh, Mom's got so much to do.
• 26:50
  Cheryl: Sh- oh, she's looking at her watch again." Mm-hmm.
• 26:53
  Cheryl: Because I have noticed my ones that fit into this category we're talking about, I glance at the clock, or- Yeah I don't have a watch like that, but just-
• 27:04
  Christie: They shut down so fast.
• 27:06
  Cheryl: Anything.
• 27:06
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 27:06
  Cheryl: It's very quick that they go,"Well, never mind."
• 27:08
  Christie: Well, and what a teenager is not gonna do is be open and vulnerable on the spot.
• 27:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 27:13
  Joanne: Right.
• 27:14
  Christie: You're never gonna be able to say,"Okay, got five minutes.
• 27:16
  Christie: Go."
• 27:16
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 27:17
  Christie: You know, they have to have warm-up time to feel the- Yeah waters out and make sure that they feel safe and ready to share- Yeah with you.
• 27:26
  Joanne: It's very much on, on their time.
• 27:27
  Joanne: I...
• 27:28
  Joanne: That made me think, Cheryl, when you were talking about that, um, uh, there was one of my kids just ev- like, every afternoon at, like, around the same time, they were always wanting to share with me, share with me, and I'd always be busy doing my work at that time.
• 27:42
  Joanne: Oh.
• 27:42
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 27:42
  Joanne: And I would just kinda get frustrated, and they were getting frustrated.
• 27:45
  Joanne: Like,"You're not paying attention." And I'm like,"Well, I have to get this done." And then finally it occurred to me,"Well, maybe I should pick a different time- to do my work- Uh-huh because this- Yeah person, you know, one of my kids, is really open at this hour."
• 27:59
  Christie: Oh, that's good.
• 28:00
  Joanne: Mm.
• 28:01
  Joanne: And so then I made sure I was available, and maybe that day they weren't, but at le- I tried to free up that time.
• 28:07
  Christie: Right.
• 28:08
  Joanne: So again, the awareness, you know, and I guess I'm telling this from experience of I did not do this all the time.
• 28:14
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 28:14
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 28:14
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 28:14
  Joanne: But Just be aware.
• 28:16
  Joanne: Like,"Oh, wait.
• 28:16
  Joanne: Okay.
• 28:17
  Joanne: They wanna open up at this time.
• 28:18
  Joanne: I need to free up this hour if I can-" Right or whatever.
• 28:23
  Joanne: Just-
• 28:23
  Christie: Same with bedtime.
• 28:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:24
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 28:24
  Christie: Like, late, late at night, teens just start opening up as the sun sets and the bedtime comes.
• 28:29
  Christie: Which is hard'cause they're so tired.
• 28:31
  Christie: It's so hard.
• 28:31
  Christie: But, I mean, all my kids are grown now, and guess who goes to Target whenever she wants and goes to bed- whenever she wants?
• 28:39
  Christie: I do whatever I want now.
• 28:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Joanne: Right.
• 28:41
  Christie: And the time will come, I promise.
• 28:43
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Joanne: Well, and even when they were little they did that.
• 28:45
  Joanne: Like, they, you'd be ready for them to be in bed, and then they'd ask this bombshell question.
• 28:49
  Joanne: Oh.
• 28:49
  Joanne: Like,"What is the meaning of life?" Uh-huh.
• 28:51
  Joanne: Or, you know- Yeah and then you're like,"Ha, okay, here we go."
• 28:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Christie: "I'll try not to fall asleep-
• 28:56
  Joanne: Yeah while I
• 28:56
  Christie: answer this."
• 28:57
  Cheryl: And I would say,'cause I've got older kids, that this is that less is more as well.
• 29:03
  Cheryl: I need To reach out and connect, and then be really quiet- Mm-hmm and just listen.
• 29:10
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 29:11
  Cheryl: Because my kids will process a lot with me, but it's much better if
• 29:17
  Cheryl A: I have fewer words.
• 29:18
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:18
  Christie: But
• 29:18
  Cheryl: for me to listen is giving such validation to who they are.
• 29:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:25
  Cheryl: And so I think that's kind of all of this, the reaching out and then listening and connecting these have been great ideas.
• 29:34
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:34
  Cheryl: And actually, that, uh, tension and guilt that was coming up in me is abating because I'm go- this is what I wanna do.
• 29:44
  Christie: Mm.
• 29:45
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:45
  Cheryl: I want to move from here and be the kinda person that begins to live like this- Mm-hmm instead of regretting all that I haven't done.
• 29:53
  Christie: And that's the thing.
• 29:53
  Christie: Just like we always say, you can always apologize and- Mm move forward with humility and, and- Right learn to do something new.
• 30:01
  Joanne: And just start today.
• 30:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:03
  Joanne: And, um, also just, you know, especially with the really, really quiet, introverted ones too, don't give up.
• 30:09
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 30:09
  Joanne: If you've reached out, um, they may not wanna open up then.
• 30:13
  Joanne: It may take, like, several times- Mm-hmm to have that point of connection with that child.
• 30:17
  Joanne: But over time, I think that they will open up, and you just wanna make yourself available.
• 30:22
  Joanne: You're communicating to them that you are there.
• 30:25
  Christie: Right.
• 30:26
  Joanne: So, you know, even if they don't open up to you i- in the time that you want them to, they're getting the message that they can.
• 30:33
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 30:33
  Joanne: And when they're ready, they will.
• 30:34
  Christie: Yes, and their feedback is not the goal.
• 30:37
  Christie: The goal is that they feel seen and loved and cared for.
• 30:39
  Christie: So not forgotten.
• 30:40
  Christie: So even if they never share with you-
• 30:42
  Joanne: Yeah
• 30:42
  Christie: your efforts are putting a deposit in that love bank.
• 30:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:46
  Cheryl: And, you know, one of the killers, like we talked about, humor can be a killer.
• 30:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Cheryl A: But another is labels.
• 30:55
  Christie: Mm.
• 30:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 30:56
  Cheryl: You know,"Well, you know, you're the quiet one."
• 30:58
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 30:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:58
  Cheryl: I mean, we alluded to it, but just when- Yeah you were saying that, um, thinking about mine that are, uh, more reserved in how they share.
• 31:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 31:09
  Cheryl: If I put words on that, um, I'm just saying,"Yeah, let's put this in cement.
• 31:15
  Cheryl: You're the one that doesn't share very readily, and you're the quiet one." Yeah., Whatever it is, I wish I had learned at an earlier place in my life not
• 31:25
  Cheryl A: to label people.
• 31:26
  Christie: Mm.
• 31:27
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 31:28
  Christie: Oh, man.
• 31:29
  Christie: Well, okay.
• 31:29
  Christie: You and you both.
• 31:30
  Christie: I've got a, an apology phone call to make today- I feel like, coming on.
• 31:34
  Christie: Oh,
• 31:34
  Cheryl: wow.
• 31:35
  Cheryl: This is really good.
• 31:36
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 31:37
  Cheryl: So what we will say is, let's just seek to love our children and other people better.
• 31:44
  Joanne: Mm.
• 31:44
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:45
  Cheryl: And that I wanna do a better job tonight than I did yesterday.
• 31:48
  Joanne: That's good.
• 31:49
  Cheryl: That's
• 31:49
  Joanne: right.
• 31:50
  Joanne: Now,
• 31:50
  Cheryl: I may not, but I want to.
• 31:52
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:52
  Cheryl: And that's that want that matters.
• 31:53
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:54
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 31:54
  Cheryl: Thanks so much, guys.
• 31:55
  Joanne: Thank you.
• 31:55
  Joanne: Thank you.
• 31:56
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there.
• 31:58
  Cheryl: Keep loving.
• 31:59
  Cheryl: Keep persevering, because it is worth it.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: You know, the laundry will need doing again, and there will always be another errand to run.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: But there may be a conversation waiting for us that will never get back quite the same way.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So when your child begins to let you into their world, linger a little.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Let the other things wait.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: You may be surprised by what they share, and even more by the joy of getting to know them.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: What a lovely way to spend a little of our lives Would love to hear some of your experiences.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Reach out any time at contact@theparentingpodcast.com or any of our social media feeds.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Look forward to seeing you next time