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How to Grow Your Audience with an Email Newsletter (with Jared Odle) · The Daily Writer

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with notable writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning and also prepare for the week ahead.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: When you think of ways to connect with your audience and add value to them, what comes to mind?
0:45
SPEAKER_01: We usually focus on the more flashy forms of marketing like social media, Amazon algorithms, or Facebook ads.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: But there's a way to connect with your readers that relies on a decades-old technology that we use every single day.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not flashy and it's not the new hip thing, but it absolutely works.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I am talking about email newsletters.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Well I'm excited to have a guest today who knows all about email newsletters and he's here to help us decipher the code to using them successfully.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: His name is Jared Odal, and he's a missionary, entrepreneur, and freelance copywriter and marketer.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, Jared lives in Ghana, West Africa, close to the city of Tamale with his wife and kids.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Jared's also working on a book and a podcast related to men's loneliness.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, most of the time on this podcast, we have guests who I've met through my writing or something else that's a business related.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: But Jared and I go way, way back.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: We were both students at St.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Louis Christian College in Florida, Missouri back in the mid-90s.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: And we had many, many classes together, and we also traveled together on the weekend in a music group for a couple of years.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: So needless to say, Jared and I have seen the best and the worst of each other through the years.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: And I am absolutely honored to call Jared one of my very best friends on the planet.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Now the cool thing is that Jared also has an incredibly sharp marketing mind, which is exactly why I've invited him on the show today to talk about email newsletters.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Because this is an area where he really excels.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: In this conversation, we talk about several topics related to newsletters, including why you need one, what you should include in your indoctrination series, and he'll explain what that is, what to use for a lead magnet, and much, much more.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is a very fun conversation.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: So let's get right to my chat with Mr.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Jared Odal.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, Jared, let's start with the obvious question first of all, which is uh why do we need newsletters or uh why do we need to focus on using email for first of all because it's such an old technology and you know we all think today that old technologies or old way of doing things are outdated.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Why, first of all, do we need to use email when we have all of these advantages of social media and so many other ways to connect?
3:01
SPEAKER_01: What is it, what is it, what is special about newsletters and email, but it's so valuable.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So the biggest thing is that across most and every industry, 70 to 80 percent of all business is repeat business.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So email is the number one way that we have to continue a customer experience uh with our existing customers.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh a lot of times we're and and you know, social media is great, uh all those other places are great for branding and for bringing in new customers.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh but the best way to reach your existing customer base is with email.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Um that that's the number one reason.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: The number two thing I would say is uh email, unlike a lot of other media forms, uh when somebody actually takes the action to click and open up your email, it is it's reciprocating that invitation.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, that that relationship is going on and on and on.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And people are choosing to look at what you're saying uh versus what someone else is saying and choosing to do it right now.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Um so those are those are the two really big reasons that uh that I think email and it works.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe number three, and the biggest reason is it actually works.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: People still send email because that's the way things get sold.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Every uh every for every dollar you spend on email, people are re reciprocating back$42 in profit.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: See, that's really fascinating because we think of email as something that is very old and something that is not as hip and stylish and cool as social media.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But is there a sense in which email is much more personal because it's coming to my email inbox as opposed to just being posted on social media?
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Does that have something to do with it as well?
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not a broadcast, right?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Like so for social media, anytime you show up in Facebook or Instagram, Pinterest, or whatever else is going on, wherever you're advertising, or if you buy a spot on uh somebody else's newsletter, uh, or like a banner ad, is what I'm trying to say, maybe not a newsletter, but a website, um, that's more of a billboard rather than a correspondence.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: So email is still about corresponding one-on-one with a person.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the biggest thing about opening email has we talk a lot about subject lines and they're important, but honestly, the biggest thing for opening an email is when they recognize your name.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: And that comes, you know, that's that does come from the brand recognition.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: So all these things work together, right?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: So when people see your name more and they become a customer, and or or they just get to know you, uh, however they get to know you, uh, when they see your name in their email inbox, like that that's why they open the email nine times out of ten.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: It has a lot to do with it, a lot more than what we as writers sometimes think about.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because they already know us, they'll open the email.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: So you mean whenever they see it's from Kent Sanders or from Jared Odell?
6:18
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: So uh whenever they see, so like if you're sending out uh a newsletter, it has your name, well, I know it's from Kent, I know you, I already know what you do, and there's familiarity.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Even if I don't open it, I know I've got an email from you.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And I may not be at that moment in time ready to read something like I'm overwhelmed, or I've read too much about writing that week, or you know, whatever reason.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh but every time I get something from you and I see your name, I automatically you're there.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Like you're a consistent, you're constant, you're in my email inbox.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: I've invited you to be there, and so I expect you to be there, and when I'm ready, I'm gonna open it and I'll be happy to read it because it's from Kent.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: So is there value in just being in somebody's email inbox where they're seeing my name in there, if it's from me?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Even if they don't open it, there's a lot of value in just that being top of mind with your readers.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: So if uh let's talk about the uh about your what you're doing now.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're switching up things a little bit uh with the daily daily writer, right?
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: But I know that you're a writing guy, okay?
7:39
SPEAKER_00: You're a writing guy.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: So anytime I see you in my email inbox, you're my writing guy.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And now you're my daily writer guy.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and when I see that, I already know it.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And even if I choose not to open it, I you are in my email box.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You're my you're one of your writing guy.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: And so, like if you're an attorney or if you're a pastor or if you're a whoever, uh, by allowing you into my email box, I've already said, hey, you're one of my people, you're one of my resources, and I'm gonna see you there every day.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: I like that a lot.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's too much to be in people's in emails inbox every day?
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, is that overkill?
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So it depends on what you're doing, right?
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're selling products, people push products a lot more.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can kind of go the product route and they'll try to uh they'll try to really build up something over a week.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a whole strategy of email marketing that uh you try to build up something early in the week so that people will buy by the end of the week, right?
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And if you're product driven like that, okay, there's a strategy for that.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Um where we're coming from as creatives, though, um I think that's probably too much.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Um I quite honestly, as much as I like you, Kent, I can't read everything that you send me every day.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Like that might be that might be true.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Unless it's short and I know that, and I've signed up for it, that might be really good.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean it it can depend on on the length of the email also.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I've got some emails I open every day.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: They're short, two, three hundred words, and I know what it is, and I get in, I get it, I like it, and I open it every single day.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: It's part of what I do.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think we both read the The Daily Stoic, right?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes, by Ryan Holliday.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's an example of something that I'm happy to read every day.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of miss it when I don't have it there, right?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Um but as a creative, like what what what I do, um for most of us, there's there's there's like a strategy here.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: So on a newsletter, I want to send out something once a month that is kind of a general thing that if you're getting nothing from me, I still want to show up and say, hey, I'm around.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like my calling card, right?
10:01
SPEAKER_00: It's uh I can hand out a business card that has some information.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: There's value.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna talk about something that I'm working on, whether it's newsletters, email, or uh another project I'm working on, like I'm working on uh loneliness with men uh right now.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: You'll get something from me.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: For you, once a month, if nobody gets anything else from you, hey, I still want to hear from my writer guy.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: I may not be ready to get involved with what you're doing yet, but I have an invitation every month.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, if if I sign up for uh like an email course or something like that, uh the general relational kind of kind of target is ask uh, you know, every other day is really good, every three days.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: And then you want to keep a balance uh in your marketing where you have three relational type kind of emails and then do like an ask, something like that.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: It's aggressive if you move to like a one-to-one, that's really, really aggressive.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: One to two is even still a little bit aggressive.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Kind of the kind of the industry standard is you know, for every three relational type emails I would send out, you know, and relational means if it's it's got some information that would help you, uh, that's general industry, or something that's that's going on in uh with a product or something I'm dealing with, or just something that might help you in your everyday life, just a relational type kind of thing, then I might ask for uh something every third email.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Say, hey, I've got this product, uh, here it is, it's a special or something like that.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So especially for those of us who work in the creative realm, um we're gonna work more on the relational side, right?
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And we can skew that even further, for it's more like a five to one even if we're sending out lots of relational type kind of things.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: So it just kind of depends, it depends on the relationship you've cultivated with your audience, and you can build those expectations.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Um creatives on one end and maybe product-driven people on another, but there's different strategies for different purposes.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: I think I went a hundred different directions there, so maybe you maybe you can do something with that.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Um does that answer the question that we were talking about earlier, right?
12:17
SPEAKER_01: It does.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: It does.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: In fact, that's really, really helpful.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: So so what you're saying is that there is a place for being in somebody's email inbox on a daily basis.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: For example, with what I'm doing, it's called the Daily Writer.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's the the frequency of what I do is embedded within the title of the thing.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for Pete's sake.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So it's like if I don't have the guts to offer somebody in daily email, then I'm not doing a very good job marketing my own thing, you know.
12:44
unknown: Right.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: So, but it let's go back to the daily stoic, for example.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: So I think I think that's a good example of email marketing that's done really well.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Because uh I know in my mind, okay, Ryan Holiday, the author of those, uh he does the daily stoic.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: He also does uh a similar thing called the Daily Dad.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know if you knew about that.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: But it's uh it's very, very similar in style.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: But so every day he sends out two things.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: If you're on the Daily Dad email list, in fact, those are my favorite thing that he does.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: It's for fathers.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: And it's really, really good stuff.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Um but I find that he he adds so much value to you that whenever he does promote something, I'm very eager to buy it.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, he has all kinds of like these coins you can buy that have like stoic inscriptions on them.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: He has like a calendar thing, he has all kinds of little things.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And I find that I'm really open to buying all that stuff because he's already added so much value.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: So in that sense, is that a big clue for us as to how to use email marketing?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Is we've got to first of all add a lot of value before we're trying to sell something.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's add value.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: I'd go even a step further that it's building a relationship.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that that email really is a relationship builder.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I expect, okay, it's kind of like um whether it was from our our dad's generation or our grandfather's generation, when they were away at war or something like that, you know, you you hear about wives that would write every day, right?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: And they would batch up letters and they'd get these, and it was a way to keep it's the same kind of thing.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you've been in people when they sign up to have this relationship with you.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Really, when you give away anymore, we're very aware that when we give away our email address, we're saying more than just send me one thing, right?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: We're saying, okay, I'm kind of open to figuring out where this relationship's gonna go.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And you know, and so because of that, we we do need to think about how do we want to build that and cultivate that relationship.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: So there's there's kind of some different series and things that you want to put together.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we mentioned the newsletter, we've mentioned, you know, kind of getting towards products, like you mentioned and whatnot.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about building value, um, and how when we build value and we give away value, that's building that relationship.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's taking the first step.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's always the important part is being the initiator in giving value.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: But maybe a third, uh, another area, a fourth thing, is what in the email world we call an indoctrination series.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just basically the, hey, this is who I am kind of thing.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And uh don't we do that when we meet somebody, right?
15:42
SPEAKER_00: You you kind of expect to hear, oh, hey, I'm I'm Jared, I'm married, I do this for a living, I have this many kids, uh, these are some of my favorite hobbies.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, we kind of get to know each other, you know, over uh in any kind of a social setting.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And in email, we can do the same thing.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: We should be take that opportunity when people sign up, say, hey, this is what we do, and this is what we're trying to do.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna hear more about this and what to expect, and it sets the stage for building a relationship.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I like to think of email as a as the backbone for building a relationship between me and my audience.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: What kinds of things should someone include in indoctrination sequence?
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be long.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Like we're only talking two, three, four emails, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And the best time to do this when we say that is as soon as somebody signs up, you should have two to four emails that say things like, okay, this is this is who I am, this is what I do, right?
16:55
SPEAKER_00: That you're gonna expect when you see my name, and that and what you're doing is you're saying, every time you see my name in your pop-up in email, you can you can know this is this is what to expect, right?
17:09
SPEAKER_00: So for the day, for let's use you for an example.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, hey, I'm Kent Sanders, this is the Daily Writer.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I coach and help uh writers become better at it.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have a podcast, we have uh I do you know however many things you want to list, and put that all in one email and say, you're gonna be able you're going to hear from me from time to time on some different offers.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And when you do, um I'm gonna ask you to re-opt in.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Just you want to explain your process of how you run your business.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Like this is this isn't just building a relationship between people, it's also how they can expect to hear from you as a business.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: And people know.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they they they we all know when we sign up, we're we're also signing up for someone's business as well.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: But just tell them.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And what I I find that the more clear we are, the better that relationship goes.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, so use your indoctrination series to talk about those things.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Spend one day on who you are as a founder, spend another day on, hey, here's what we do as a business.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh and and I think that you'll that will cover most of your bases.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: That is so simple and so clear and so direct.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Now, what should what should people offer as a so the term that we throw around a lot of times when we talk about blogging or email list is a lead magnet.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, first of all, can you explain what a lead magnet is for people and what kinds of things they could use as a lead magnet?
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so a lead magnet is something that has value that someone else wants, right?
18:59
SPEAKER_00: And that you're willing to give them uh we in in the old days we would call it a uh a lead loser, right?
19:09
SPEAKER_00: In grocery stores, they would run the specials.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing, right?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh the lead loss or loss leader or whatever the term was.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it was loss leader.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: And basically, you plan on losing money on products to get people in the door.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: That was that's always been part of marketing.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: And in the digital world, it's the same.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: We just call it a lead magnet.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: It's nothing new, right?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: You just say, okay, here's some of my best stuff.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Here's a snapshot of who I am and what I offer.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I'd like to give that to you in exchange for your email address.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: So you're offering something, you're taking the first step in the relationship.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like asking somebody out for a date, right?
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Here's who I am, here's what I've got.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you want this?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And uh if people say yes, great.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: All it takes is for you to have your email address, and I'll give you a call, right?
19:59
SPEAKER_00: That kind of thing.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: It's it's initiating the relationship.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's what it is.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's why you have it, is to be able to follow up and start building relationships.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: So, what kinds of things there are um and what you should do, I would say go together in that you should do what you're best at, right?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: So, like for some people to video, okay, because they're really good at video, they they like to YouTube, they they love it.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Some people love to write, and they would write, you know, uh maybe it's more research oriented.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so you write a short white paper or with nice, nice graphics under something.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe it's something that is just really punchy.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: You can list things out in a way that makes people go, huh.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: And you want a checklist, right?
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you are email-centric like I am, right?
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna think email course, uh, because I want to build a relationship that way.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: It can be any of these things.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I would say it's best to have uh to try out all of them, right?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Because different people react to different things, and offer them once again to your to people who are already subscribed to you.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Let them re-up for a different kind of an offer.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: If you're offering it to everybody else in the world, don't forget the people who are already with you.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think we miss that sometimes.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Um we're looking to add value to new people, new people, new people.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Go back to your old people.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: That is where people say the money's in the email list.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And it's true, it's because people already know, like, and trust you.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: So give them all your good stuff.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh we I think we need to be aware of that as well.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: I think that's fantastic.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: This is gold, by the way.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Hey, good.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Now, once we get a lead magnet together, we have an email sequence.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: What are some options for connecting this to an email service provider?
22:00
SPEAKER_01: This is where a lot of writers uh get a little confused, they get hung up because there are several steps involved in this process of how do people sign up sign up for our list?
22:10
SPEAKER_01: What are the things that we do to make that happen and so forth?
22:13
SPEAKER_01: So, can you walk us through maybe some elements of that process?
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh so let's say I'm a writer, I want to set up a blog, I want people to start subscribing to my list.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, how do I actually make that happen functionally?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so um not to overwhelm.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Here are the big rocks, right?
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, first you need to figure out how you're gonna host a blog, right, on a with a web page.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, or and and how you're going to manage that element uh of where you're gonna be posting.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And when you're thinking of that, you also need to think about your lead magnet.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's just a blog, or maybe it's free access, or maybe it's a newsletter, or whatever else, but you need to think about a place where that's gonna sit digitally.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: All right, so it can be on your website, it can be someone else's.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's a set of decisions to make.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But to form the email relationship, you need an email service provider, ESP is what some people call it in shorthand.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of choices out there, but they all basically do the same thing in terms of they will help you make forms.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: You can go in whether it's MailChimp or Mail or Lite, those are two really popular ones that are free, you can start with uh up to certain points.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: There's others that offer uh a little bit more, and and by the way, when we say an ESP, they do more than just manage your email.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: So uh before I start naming names, let me let me back up and say what they do.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: So when somebody when you want to send out a big batch of emails, if you have too many, it'll get marked as spam and it will shut down your your email address.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: If I use my Gmail or my Yahoo or whatever account.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So the reason you need this is if you have those email service providers, they have ways of sending these emails out that will still use your personal information, uh associated with your email address that is with your website, right, where you want to be known, and it will send them out for you.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and they they keep everything legal and clean and uh make sure all the protocols is followed.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: They also help you generate um how to make how to let people sign up for that.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, they will make forms that are available for you to put on your website or other places as well.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: You can embed that on your website, and people can just sign up right there.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, when they read your blog, they see it, boom, they can sign up.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Um can get into more complicated things where it can pop up right on your website.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Hey, sign up here for my email course, put your email address in.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: So you've got a lot of different options where that comes, but the ESP's job is just to get your email out, let people sign up, and that's their basic function.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: All of them also now offer landing pages, right?
25:28
SPEAKER_00: So if uh let's say that you have uh whatever your lead magnet is, you can integrate it where it will fit with your email service provider.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: They they offer a deal where it will pop up and say, hey, you just clicked on uh that you want Kent's very best uh email course forever that's gonna last and make you the best daily writer ever, right?
25:53
SPEAKER_00: And all you have to do is put your email address in.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And so all of that's integrated into your ESP.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh others like Convert Kit, AWeber, and some others allow you to host and put actually put some of your lead magnet uh elements there.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Um so that it can get complicated, you can get more and less and whatnot.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: But basically what they all do is provide a way for you to capture and send out email and follow all the right laws and whatnot.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: They take care of all those that mess for you and make it easy for you to uh to have an email relationship with your with your tribe.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: That is fantastic.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you taking time to go through all that.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I would say that the number one thing that I want people to hear with all this is don't get overwhelmed with all the technical details because you can figure this out.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And also, as we're going through this, it reminds me that something I probably need to develop as part of this whole daily writer platform is some training on all this stuff, on how does this work.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And you know, and there's gobs of training that already exist on there, but I I want to kind of become the the one-stop shop for people who are wanting to be daily writers, and this is part of that process of figuring out your your website, your blog, your email list, and all that kind of stuff.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: So uh I probably need to develop some stuff on that.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: It it sounds more complicated than it is, like it's really intuitive.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: All of these names that we've thrown out and all this stuff, like if you just go to one of these websites like MailChip or Convert Kit or Mailerlight or AWeb or whoever, um they will just help you walk right through the process.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: It it's pretty well dummy-proof because I've done it.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know it's dummy proof.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: And so don't get overwhelmed by that.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Just know that they take care of a lot of problems that you would have otherwise with correspondence with your list.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: And I would really encourage people to not wait to do this.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Because the longer that you wait, the more people that you are not impacting by sending out helpful emails.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: Like literally yes, see, what's today, Monday?
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay, literally yesterday.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I sent out an email to my list.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was talking about what happens if you can't afford to self-publish your book.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I actually stole that question from my QA that I did yesterday on my podcast.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And I just went through some stuff.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Here are three or four options that you can think about if you feel like you cannot afford to self-publish your book, if you can't afford cover design, editing, interior layout, that kind of stuff.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: And I just sent out the email and got several responses back.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh in fact, one person who I greatly respect, uh sort of a leader in the writing entrepreneur space, he just happens to be on my list.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And he sent back a thing that said, you know, I always have to add a couple things for people as well to this.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, I didn't even think about that.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And then he said, I'm gonna take your thoughts and add this to what I give out to people when they ask me about this.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's why I do this, is because if you don't take the chance to send out those emails, you're missing a chance to impact people.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: And and what you just said, like, look at the fact that this is a two-way relational street that just fed somebody that you're looking at as a leader.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Now they're using some of your stuff.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Both of you are winning because you're sharing more information, and it's about an email.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's the power of email because he knew you're a writer, he's following you.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: You opened his email right back, right?
29:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's why we don't want to wait because you're missing out on really rich relationships that can come about because you're putting yourself, your best self out in your email.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's dive into our last couple questions here.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast, Jared.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, you're so smart with all this stuff.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: I wish I would have had you around.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, you were around years ago.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: I just you hadn't gotten into this stuff yet, and you know, we're I didn't know anything.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: We've known each other since Saved by the Bell was on the air, I think, or something like that.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: But I would ever confess to watching that show.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: No, no, what is that?
30:15
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what you're talking about.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did not have a crush on any of those characters.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: No, no, not a bit, not a bit.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: I was more of a like a different strokes kind of a guy, you know.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I was more of a cheesy 70s and 80s sitcom kind of a guy.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: So uh last couple questions here.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: What are some books that have have impacted you the most?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: So this is a podcast about writing.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: We talk about reading a lot, but any specific books that in recent years have really impacted you in an important way?
30:47
SPEAKER_00: So um, yes, there are a lot of books because I I I like to read a lot.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I read widely.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Um a couple of books that have really stood out over time, though, that I keep finding myself going back to.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Um is Jim Collins' Good to Great.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I keep going back to that all the time because the principles I find in there, I realize I need for my business life.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: I also can use it in my personal life in a lot in so many ways.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: In terms of becoming a leader, in terms of growth.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I go back to that book often for several different reasons.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Um on a personal uh spiritual growth side, um, I go back to Richard Foster all the time and Dallas Willard.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, those those two books, a celebration of discipline, and uh I just forgot the one by Willard.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: I'll have to remember that.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: You have to edit this.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Didn't conspiracy?
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Divine Conspiracy.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: So Dallas is Dallas Willard's Divine Conspiracy.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Um I go back to those two quite often.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Um I also have been uh going back, uh I've been reading a lot of mysteries lately uh because I'm finding that mystery novels are helping me to understand character development.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's been a really weird thing.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: It just happened over the last year.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've been reading them differently since I've been thinking about characters.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: And let me uh Dick Francis, um, anything by Dick Francis.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: He was he wrote back in the 70s mostly.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh he's a uh UK author uh uh around horse racing world.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I just enjoy them as a genre just to kind of check out my brain when I don't really want to think about too much, but I'm finding the way he does character development.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: That's been very, very helpful uh for me as I as I think about that.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And then uh I I nerd out on anthropology and some things like that.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: But those are those are some things I've read that that have over time uh made a big impact on me.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Now I know you're also uh working on some stuff of your own.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Is this something you would like to talk about for a bit here on this episode?
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can mention it because it's a work in progress like the rest of me.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Um and all of us.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And all of us.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: So um in my life, uh I've been looking towards copywriting, uh, which means writing to help other people make money, basically, in marketing.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Um I've been training in that over the last few months, and I found that, man, I really don't want I I'm not excited about writing everything for everyone else all the time.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: What do I want to write about?
33:40
SPEAKER_00: So I was reading some different things.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: I ran across an article from the Boston Globe written in 2017, that loneliness in men is their third leading health risk for men, like physically.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: It like it can kill you, kind of thing.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: And it it grabbed my attention.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I read the article and it just started me thinking about this.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: I've done it, did a deep dive into it.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: And what happened is I started mentioning it to all my friends, and they're all like, oh yeah, I have that problem too.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: And the more I've talked about it, it's been really fascinating.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm in my mid-40s, uh, like you are, and guys my age and older going, I didn't even realize I wasn't lonely.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, to guys in their uh 70s who are saying, Yes, you need to ask me about this because it's a real problem when you get my age, but nobody's talking to us about it, right?
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And guys younger than us are even having issues.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I think in the digital world and in the way that our world is changing, and the way that we're moving uh towards more and more decentralized social groups, uh, I think loneliness is a is a it's a big, big issue for us to talk about.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do some writing on it.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I plan on writing a book and um getting a blog up and going in the next few weeks at uh jarredodal.com.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: Um that's where that will be.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: And uh just see where it goes.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And that's a whole other topic in itself that we could go on about for a couple of hours easily.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, when we went to uh retreat recently, we did go on about that for hours on the drive to Pittsburgh and back.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, another time.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Or and maybe I'll host a podcast and we can talk about for many, many hours.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, Jared, this has been a blast.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I always appreciate your input, your insights, and of course your friendship over the years.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: How can our listeners connect with you and learn more about um your copywriting, your um just your your business in general, if they would like to have some help with that?
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so everything is at jarado.com.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: That is j-ar-ed-d odcom.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: And um everything I do is centered out of that.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Um right now the blog area is on the loneliness of guys, and as it develops, that will that will be in that area as well.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: All the copywriting stuff you can see, it's it's there.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and there I am uh offering a special right now for anybody who wants a professional personalized newsletter service.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, anybody interested in that, uh, I'd be happy to help you.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Kit.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jared.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: I had a blast, and I gotta say, who would have thought back, you know, 20-some years ago in the 90s that either one of us would be doing podcasting or be a guest on podcasts or any of this kind of stuff.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: So you know, you just never know where technology is gonna lead and what opportunities might lie ahead in future decades.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: I would say my main takeaway from this conversation is simply to emphasize that email is a relationship building tool.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: I've had an email list for many years, and in fact, right now I'm in the process of developing a new lead magnet series that I think you're really gonna love.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: It's called the Daily Writer Bootcamp, and I'll share more about that for the next few weeks.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: So if you haven't taken advantage of all the opportunities that you can have with an email list, I really strongly encourage you to do that.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's all kinds of email marketing services you can use, but I personally use and recommend Convert Kit.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a fantastic service.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: And even though others recommend and use MailChamp, AWeber, or Cost of Contact, or many others, I still love Convert Kit.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: I've been using it for quite a few years, and I've never had any issues with it at all.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it's reasonably priced, or it's a lot of fun to use, and again, I just recommend it because I use it and I love it.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: So you can check that out at convertkit.com.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: I want to give a huge thank you to my guest, Jared Odal.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: You can connect with Jared at his website, which is JaredOdal.com as well as LinkedIn or Facebook.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: And I'll have links to those in the show notes.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to the Daily Rider podcast.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Or if you could leave us a review in iTunes, it really helps a ton.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: It helps people to discover the show whenever you leave ratings and reviews.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: So if you take a moment to do that, I would really sincerely appreciate it.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: And if you know of anybody who would enjoy these episodes, please go ahead and share them with your friends and family and anybody that you think would enjoy those.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Your one act of generosity might just change their life.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change lives.