Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 14-16) (9/27/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 14-16) (9/27/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with a Michael Thomas interview with
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the OIG inspectors. Question. So as far as visitors to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the SHU, you said that there was redacted Lane came
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: at four, but you don't recall any another CEO coming
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: in at 530 a.m. Thomas, I don't. Question. No. And
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the food delivery. You said that's all outside of the SHU.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: You go out and get that yourself. Thomas, you go
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: out and get that. I mean, it happens. I mean,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, it was just me and Noel
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: up there. At some time, the six count come. He's
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: pushing it in when he comes along. But I don't
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: remember seeing the six cart come in at that time. Question.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: All right. Thomas, I don't recall. I don't remember if
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: he was there or not. I really don't remember. Question. Okay.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: And you said no one entered Epstein's cell between 12 a.m.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and 6 a.m. that you know of. Thomas, not by
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: my knowledge. Question, and did you enter Epstein's cell at
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: all between 6 and approximately 6.30? Thomas, no. Question, and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: so never before the initial, he gets cut off by Thomas,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the yes, the initial. Question, okay, do you know who
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the last person was to enter Epstein's cell? Thomas, I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: do not. Question, okay, do you know what would be
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the purpose of someone for the last person to enter
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: his cell? When you give people food, do you do
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: it through the food tray? Thomas, food slot. Question, food slot.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So what would be a purpose to actually enter a cell? Thomas,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: during which shift? My shift, the overnight? Question, yeah. So
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: if you can think of a reason why people would
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: go into an inmate cell, what would be the reason
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: why someone would have? Thomas, most of the time you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: don't go in an inmate cell unless authorized. The lieutenant
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: has to be there to go in there. Question, into
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: an inmate cell? Thomas, well, if you're talking about during
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the morning watch, I can't go in there until the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: lieutenant comes. I wouldn't just go in there unless the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: lieutenant was in there. Question, okay. So, officers, don't go
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: into inmate cells unless lieutenants are present? Thomas, no, not
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: for all. If an inmate is harming himself, I'm not
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: going to wait for the lieutenant. Question, yeah. That's understood.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, but as far as just
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: going into the cell, I'm not going to go in
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: there unless the lieutenant is present. Redacted, okay. Do you
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: recall any issues with any other inmates on August 10th,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: 2019 during your shift? Thomas with me? Question, yeah. Thomas, no. Question,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you had no. Any issues? Do you remember like were
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: inmates complaining about the cells being left on or anything
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: like that? Thomas, cells being left on? Question, sorry, the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: lights being left on? Thomas, nah, I don't remember. They
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: complain a lot. I don't really remember. Question, do you
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: know of any other inmates that were like or came
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: from Suicide Watch or were supposed to have special attention
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: or anything? Thomas, no, I don't remember. Question, so you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: don't remember complaints about the lights being left on? Nothing. Thomas, no. Question,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: how do the lights work? Are the lights left on
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: down the range? Thomas, the lights are left on down
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the range, but all inmates cover up their lights anyway.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: But even with the light switch, it doesn't cut off
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: all the lights. It's a light switch. As soon as
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: you go into the tier to the left, and it
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: shuts off the lights. But some work, and some because
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you can't shut it off, and an inmate could still
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: turn on his light. It doesn't shut the power off
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: to him. Redacted so they have access to their own
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: interior lights? Thomas, yeah, they do. Question, but the outside
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: lights that you have access to, they remain on? Thomas,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: they remain on 24-7. Question, they do? All right. And
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: is this like they have to remain on type of thing? Thomas,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I guess so. Question, okay. Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: all right. Now we're going to talk about the medical emergency.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Was there a medical emergency in the shoe on the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: morning of August 10th, 2019? Thomas, yeah. Question, Why was
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the medical emergency called? Thomas, when I went up to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: the cell to feed the tear, when I knocked on
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the door, seen Mr. Epstein, I said to come to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the door, come to the door, and he didn't move.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And then I said, I'm coming in. And then I
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: went in and he was hanging. Question, okay. When was
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: the medical emergency called? Thomas, I called it immediately. I
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: couldn't tell you the exact time. Question, but you called
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: it in? Thomas, yeah. I yelled to Noel to get help. Question, okay. So,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: you've gone to the door, saw what you saw, and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: you yelled to... Immediately? Thomas, yeah. Well, when I got
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: to the door, I couldn't see what I was seeing.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: When I popped it open, I seen what I saw,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and I yelled for help. Question, so was the medical
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: emergency called before you even entered the cell? Did you
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: call Noel to call the medical? Thomas, yeah, I called
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: for Noel to call for the medical emergency, yes. Question,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: prior to entering, Thomas... Right as soon as I entered.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Right as soon as I entered. Question, okay, so kind
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: of like open the door and you said call for help? Thomas, yeah, exactly. Question,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: that type of thing? And you ran in. Thomas, simultaneously, yes. Question, okay,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: so at what time? So if the medical emergency was
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: called at 6.33 a.m., approximately what time was Epstein discovered?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think like a minute went by, two minutes,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: three minutes, five minutes? Thomas, I can't tell you the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: exact time, but I know whenever I popped because I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: don't know what time the food cart came. The food
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: cart came up. I don't remember if we set up
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: all the tiers first or we set it up. Usually
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: how I do it is just set all the tiers
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and then I come back to the first tier and
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: then I put it on. I don't remember if I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: did so or not. But when I got to this particular.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: When I got to his cell. I got there. I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: came with food. I put all on the walking food cart.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: That's there. That you could take. Let's say it was
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: 15 inmates up there. That you take. Usually in the
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: morning there's two trays. I walked up there. I had
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: it all set up. So if the food cart. I
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: don't know who was one. Certain people food cart comes early.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Some people. Came up early. Let's say by the time
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I discovered. By the time. I would say let's say.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: If I went in there at 6, yell the medical
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: emergency at 601. Question, sorry, so the medical emergency was
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: called at 633. Thomas, 633. So I opened. He gets
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: cut off. So I'm saying, Thomas, the cell. If it's closer,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I open the cell at 632. Question, so approximately, probably
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: like a minute. Thomas, yeah, I couldn't have taken her
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: because I yelled to Noelle. She yelled, it couldn't have
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: taken more than 30 seconds for her to rush and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: yell for that emergency. Question, alright, but you are the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: one that discovered Epstein in his cell? Thomas, yes I am. Question, okay,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and who called the medical emergency? Thomas, I would assume
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Noelle did. She yelled it over the radio or whatever. Question,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: and that's what I was going to say. How was
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the medical emergency called? Did she call it on the radio?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Did she have to call the police? How does it work? Thomas,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: she could have called on the radio. She could have
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: did either or. She could have called over the radio.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: She would need assistance. She could have had the radio
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: over the phone. I don't remember exactly which one that
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: she did, but it could have been either one. Question,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: do you know what she said? What did you tell
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: her at the time? Did you say we need assistance? Thomas, yeah.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, medical emergency. Need help. Need help. Question,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: need help. Thomas, yeah. I don't know my exact words.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I just said to say we need help. Question, okay.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: When was the last time you saw Epstein? Prior to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the discovery. Thomas, prior to discovery? The day that I
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: sat with him. No, no, probably the day prior. The
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: day prior when I fed him. Question, so the day prior. Thomas,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the day prior when I fed him. Question, on August 9th,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: on your shift sometime, between I guess in the morning,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: around like 6, 6.30? Thomas, yeah, whatever. It's between 6
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: and 6.30. Question, so approximately 24 hours before? Thomas, that
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I actually seen him? Question, that you laid eyes on him? Thomas,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: probably when I did my count. Like, when you're talking
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: about we actually fed right when I did my count
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: that night. The night prior. The night when I did
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: morning watch. Question, alright, so you wouldn't have seen him?
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Did you feed him? Thomas, I'm sure I did the feeding. Question,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: but you don't actually put eyes on people when you
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: do the feeding. Thomas, yeah, when you do the feeding,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: so yeah, the feeding prior in that time. Redacted, so
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, when you looked at him, he gets
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: cut off by Thomas, oh, looked at him besides, he
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: grabbed the tray, and we spoke, yeah. Question, so probably
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: about 24 hours before, Thomas, 24 hours prior to that, yeah,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that morning, watch, on 6, when I did the feeding. Question,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and did you notice anything unusual when you last saw him? Thomas, no. Question, no. Thomas, no.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Just took his tray. Question, do you know who was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the last person to see Epstein alive? Thomas, no. Question, no. Thomas,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: not there. Question, do you remember hearing anything from Epstein's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: cell between the times of 12 a.m. and 6.33 a.m.? Thomas, no. Question.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: So you never heard like any kind of banging or
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: rustling or, you know, coughing? No movement or anything like that? Thomas, uh-huh. Question.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: All right. So you said when you discovered him, you
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: were outside the door. You saw through the actual window, correct? Thomas, yes. Question.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: And that's when you noticed something was off? Thomas, I
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: noticed something was off. Anything like that, yes. Question, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: where was Noelle standing? Do you remember? Thomas, I don't.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I can't recall. Question, was she near you? Was she
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: on the same tier? Do you know if she was
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: like somewhere else? Thomas, I don't. I really can't recall.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. To just be specific, I really don't
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: know where she was standing. If she was standing at
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the grill or if she was standing at the base.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. Question, when you're feeding the inmates, is
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: she typically near you? Thomas, no, she doesn't have to be.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: She could, like I said, it all depends on how
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that day. Like I said, we were both tired. She
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: could have been setting up the rest of the tears
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: if I didn't set up the tears. So until I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: yelled for that help, that's the minute. And when I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: yelled for help, she reacted to my yell. Question, when
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you yell for help, do you remember ever seeing her?
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Making sure she knew? Thomas, I really can't recall. Question,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: you just remember yelling. Thomas, because I'm in the cell. Yeah,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I'm in the cell at that time. Question, all right. Thomas,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: but I know she heard me. Question, you know she
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: heard you. Do you remember like her responding or anything?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Like I'm on it? Thomas, I don't remember. Question, received, copied, anything? Thomas,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, so you just know that you yelled. Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: you don't know where she was. Thomas, I don't know
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: where she was. She was just like at the grill
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Maybe she was at the grill. I don't
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: remember exactly where she was at. But I yelled and
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I know she called for help because help came. All right, folks,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode of the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the OIG inspectors. Question, all right, so when did you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: see Epstein? This is where we're going to have to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: get into a little more detail. Thomas, sure. Question, what
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: did you see? Thomas, he was hanging by a sheet. Question,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: so what was he hanging from? Thomas, his bed. Question,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: from his bed? Thomas, yes. Question, did you see the picture? Mitchell,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: he needs a break. Question. You want to take a break? Thomas. Yeah,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I got another 10 minutes here. I've got to go. Question.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: All right. Thomas, the hour and a half is up
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: for the thing. Question. So we have 10 minutes. Thomas. Yeah. Question.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: All right. 10 minutes. And then we'll take another little break.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: We're getting close. But so this can help us with
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: this when we were talking about the shoe. And just
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: so can we get these maps out of there? Do
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: you mind just initialing and dating this? Thank you, sir.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: All right. So here's some pictures I want to show you.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Is this, was Epstein on L tier? Thomas, yeah. See,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: this is exactly what I'm saying. Like this is down
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: from M tier, but yeah, he's on L tier. Question, okay.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Where was his cell? Thomas, it would be back here. Question,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: back on this side. Thomas, yeah. Question, all right. What
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: am I looking at here? Are you able to tell? Thomas,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you what tier it is. but it's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: just a hallway and that's the food cart. Question, okay.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Do you mind just initialing and dating that? Is this
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the door that you walked up to when you saw? Thomas,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: if you say it is, okay. Question, all right. So
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you can't even actually see that because it's crossed with
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: this crime scene. Thomas, uh-huh. Question, do you have any
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: reason to believe that wouldn't be the door that you
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: went into where Epstein was discovered? Thomas, I have no
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: reason to believe it. Question, okay, when you walked in,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: does this look like it was the same type of cell?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Because all I'm going to ask is where he was hanging. Thomas,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: he was hanging over here to the side. Question, okay,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: so is this a picture? Thomas cuts him off. Yeah,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: because if you put them together, like the bunk, it's
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: over to this side. Question, all right, so is he
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: hanging from something in there? Thomas, yeah, hanging. It was
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: tied up right here and then it ripped. it down
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and I put him on the ground. Question. So was
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: this what he was tied to Thomas? It wasn't just
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: that little thing. It was more stringed. And then that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I ripped it down. Question. All right, Thomas, maybe it's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: down there or something like that. Like I see string
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and stuff right here. Question. Do you just mind like
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: marking where it was, where the noose or whatever the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: rope was tied just for clarity, what it was attached to? Thomas,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: it was attached to the bunk. It's attached to the bunk. Question,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: is this it here though? Thomas, yeah. It's attached to
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the bunk, to this general area. Right here. Question, so
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: just circle that general area. Thomas, yeah. Question, alright. You
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: mind just initialing and dating that? Alright. Thomas, am I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: doing the same with this one? Question, no. Well, you
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: can if you want. I mean, you looked at it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: And do you believe? So, did you take down... This
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and somebody put it back up? Thomas, no. It was
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: attached to them and it wasn't just that singular piece.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: It might have more rope to it. Question, all right.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: There was more rope to it? Thomas, yeah. Question, but
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: this is what? What was hanging? He was hanging? I
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's a sheet or a shirt or
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, but yeah. Thomas, he was
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: hanging from over there. Question, from this area? Thomas, yes. Question,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: all right. You mind just initialing and dating that? So
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: when you went in, you found him. He was still hanging. Thomas. Yes. Question.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And what did you do? Thomas. I ripped him down
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and I yelled for help and I started CPR. Question.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So how did you rip him down? Thomas. Yeah, I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: just ripped the sheet down. Question. You ripped the sheet first. Thomas. Yeah. Question.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And then did you like pick him up or did
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you throw him on the floor? Thomas. Yeah. Or did
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: he fall on the floor? Thomas. Yes. Kind of, just
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: like got him to the floor. I ripped it off
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: like that. And then he dropped, of course. And then
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I laid him onto the ground. Question. Okay, so he dropped. Fall. Thomas. Well,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: it wasn't. As you can see, it's not that far.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: If you can see by the thing like that. Where's
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the picture? Question. Right here. Can I have the picture back? Thomas. Oh,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the ground is right there. Question. Sure. Thomas. Like if
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you take, he's maybe like plop to, he was maybe
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: about an inch and a half or maybe an inch
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: off the ground. Question. So Thomas, like he was lower,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off. So after you rip this thing,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: did he just fall first? Thomas just dropped down. Yeah. Question.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: He just dropped down. Thomas. Uh-huh. Question. And then you
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: moved them. So, all right, Thomas, I didn't move them. Question.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: So you rip the sheet. He falls to the floor.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: And then you move him where you could start CPR? Thomas, yeah,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: so I could lay him down and start CPR. Question,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: all right, do you remember if his, like, if anything
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: of his body hit anywhere? Thomas, I don't remember. Question,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: when he fell? Thomas, no, I don't remember his body
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: hitting anywhere. Question, the reason why we're asking is like
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: with the autopsy, we've got to make sure of that. Thomas, yeah, yeah,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: just like a drop down. All right, so he dropped. Basically,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: do you remember if he landed on his butt? Thomas, yeah,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: on his butt. Yeah, he landed on his butt here. Question,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: he landed on his butt? Thomas, yeah. Question, but his
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: head remained upright? Thomas, nah, I'm sure. He gets cut off.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I don't mean upright like looking at you, but I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: mean like his body remained upright. Thomas, I would guess
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: he was just limped over. I would say just limped over. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: and I just... He gets cut off. And then you
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: physically moved him? Thomas to the floor, yes, question, alright,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: do you remember, if like anything hit harder than another
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: when you moved him, Thomas, I don't really, he gets
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: cut off to the floor, Thomas, I don't remember other
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: than that, question, yeah, no worries, alright, so, he was
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: still hanging, that was the position that you found him in,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you ripped him off, he fell to the ground, you
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: then moved him to the ground, What was he wearing
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: at the time? Do you remember? Thomas pants. Question. Was
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: he naked or anything like that? Or he still had
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: his clothes on. Thomas. He wasn't naked. He wasn't naked.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say. I want to say he had
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: a jumper on. He had his jumper. How they. It's
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: not all the way up to the top right here.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: But it's like around the waist. So maybe he had
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: pants on. I do remember. He wasn't totally naked. Question. Okay. Thomas.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And he wasn't in his boxer shorts or anything like that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But he was. He had no shirt on. He didn't
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: have a shirt on. Question. He didn't have a shirt on.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: All right. You said this was still around his neck.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: When he fell off, did that come away from his neck? Thomas. Yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: He didn't have anything around his neck when he came up. Yeah. Question. Okay.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: And what was it that was around his neck? Question
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: or answer. I mean, Thomas, it was either a sheet
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: or a shirt. I don't know which one it is.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: A sheet or a shirt? I didn't really pay attention
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to it. Question, now are the sheets and the shirts
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: both orange? Thomas, yes. Question, okay, so it wasn't. You
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: weren't able to tell if it was. Thomas cuts him off.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you if it was a sheet or
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: a shirt. No, I didn't. Question, okay. Thomas, I didn't
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: look to see what it was. Now, what did he
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: look like? Thomas, um, white male? I don't know. Question,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: was he like completely purple? Thomas, no, absolutely not. He
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: was just, he looked like he'd been hanging, like he'd
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: just hung himself. It wasn't like he was red or blue,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: or his lips, like a different color. It wasn't any
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: of that stuff. Question, it looked like it happened just recently. Thomas,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a doctor. To tell you if
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a doctor, I just, he didn't look. I don't
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: say he looked any different. I mean, he just, like
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: he just hung himself. It wasn't no discoloration of anything
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: like that, if that's what you're trying to get. And
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: it's like, like he just hung himself. Question, all right,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: so you don't. He didn't look at that much different
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: than when he looked when he was alive. Thomas, yeah,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: didn't look. Question, he looked pretty much the same. Thomas, yeah. Question, okay.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And you said, or did you notice anything unusual in
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: his cell when you went in? Thomas, no, I didn't. Question, no.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And you said that you started CPR. Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: what did you do? Thomas, I started chest compressions. Question,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: just chest compressions? Thomas, yeah, just chest compressions. Question, any
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: kind of like mouth to mouth? Thomas, no, I didn't
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: do any mouth to mouth. I was doing chest compressions.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: It took maybe about, it wasn't that long. Before they
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: came with the thing. And they started doing all the
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: other stuff. I can't remember the medic's name. The guy.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I can't remember his name. Question. Alright. Did he stay?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: All kinds? Was it all kinds of right there next
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: to the bed? Thomas. Yeah. It was right there. Question.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Did you have to move him out at all? Thomas. No.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Because they did. They was doing the AED and everything
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: right there inside the cell. Question. So right in the
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: corner of that bunk? Thomas. No. It's not in the corner.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: It can stretch out like, you know. He gets interrupted. No, no.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I'm saying for you, when you're doing your chest compressions. Thomas, no.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: When I'm doing my chest compressions, he's laying out right here,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: a few feet. Maybe all right here, but he's laying
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: about right here. Like about this way. Question. Okay. Thomas,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: without the wall, of course. Question. But so he was
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: on the floor. Thomas, he was on the floor. Question.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: While you were doing... The CPR. You didn't really have
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to move them that much? Thomas. I did not. Question.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: After you like moved them from the hanging position to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the ground to the floor. Chest compressions immediately? Thomas. Yes. Question.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: All right. Did you do anything else? Thomas. Uh. Other
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: than the chest compressions? Question. Thomas. No. Soon thereafter. There
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: was a whole bunch of staff there. Question. About how
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: long were you doing the chest compressions for? Thomas. No.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe a minute or so. I don't, I can't really recall. Question.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: You don't remember? Thomas. It seemed like the blink of
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: an eye before everybody was around me. Question. Did he
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: seem like he was dead at the time? Thomas. No,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: he didn't. Question. He actually seemed like he was alive. Thomas.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I don't really want to say dead or alive, but
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I was doing chest compressions. I mean, I'm not a doctor,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: so anything like that, but I just know I just
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: keep going. I don't know if he was dead or
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: anything at the time. Question, did you notice if he
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: had like, did you check for a pulse or anything
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: like that? Thomas, the doctor was there. I know I
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: was doing chest compressions. I didn't stop to check for
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a pulse. I let the medical staff do that because
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: it was somebody from medical doing that. Question, so how
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: did you know to do chest compressions? If you didn't,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: he gets cut off. I mean, I don't know if
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: somebody looked like they're not breathing or anything like that.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: He's not talking. I'm yelling out his name. He's not responding. Question,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: so did you check for breath? Thomas, yeah, I did
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a check for breath. Question, so prior to doing chest compressions,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: you check for breath? Thomas, yeah, I check for breath. Question,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and how did you do that? Thomas, I just went,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I would go like this. I was telling Epstein like, yo, Epstein, Epstein,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: he wasn't breathing. So that's my interpretation of checking. I'm yelling.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: He's not breathing. He's not calling to me. He's not
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: saying anything. Question, so I guess what I'm asking is, Thomas,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: did I put my hand over and check for a breath? Question, yeah, yeah. Thomas, no,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I did not. Question, so you didn't like he gets
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: cut off? No, I was yelling for his name and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: everything to see if he was like doing like anything
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: that in there. I'm like Epstein, Epstein. I'm pushing his
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: upper torso. Question, all right, so you didn't feel for
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: a pulse or check for a breath? Thomas, no, I
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: didn't do all that stuff, no. Question, alright, but you
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: believed he wasn't breathing? Question, I don't know if he
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: was breathing or not. I know he was just hanging,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: so I was just trying to get him to start. Question,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: so you saw him hanging, and just your natural reaction
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: then was to? Thomas, absolutely. Question, so you don't actually
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: know if he was breathing? Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you don't know if he was breathing, so you don't
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: know if he was alive or not? Thomas, I don't
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: know if he was alive or not, no. Question, okay,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: so just, alright. So you didn't actually check for anything?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: You just went right to chest compressions? Thomas, yeah. Went
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to chest compressions and yelling. I wasn't getting no response. Question, okay,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: did you like hit him or anything first? Thomas, no. Question,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like trying to wake him up? Thomas, I just kept
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: yelling his name and I'm shaking him and doing chest
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: compressions that should be enough to wake somebody up. For
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: somebody to, hey, hey, like, that I didn't, he gets
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: cut off. Didn't they teach you CPR though? Thomas, yeah,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that's part of the art. Question, did they teach you
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: that prior to doing CPR, you're supposed to like, check
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: to see if they're alive first? Thomas, prior to CPR,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the standard model is check for airways and everything like that.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: But in the course of the moment, I didn't slow
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: down and say, let me see, I check for responsiveness.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I did. When I'm yelling your name,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that's checking for a response. Question, right. Thomas, I wasn't
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: getting any response. Question, okay. No, the only reason I'm
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: going more into detail is because you said you weren't
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: sure if he was alive or not. Thomas, uh-huh. I understand. Question, no,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out if there's more questions
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I need to ask with regard to that. Thomas, no problem.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: At any time when you were doing chest compressions, Or
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: any of that, did he ever open his eyes or
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: seem to take a breath? Thomas, not that I recall.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I don't remember really. Question, okay, alright. Did Noelle ever
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: enter the cell to assist you? Thomas, um, I don't remember.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing her. I don't know if she was
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: in the cell. There were so many people in that
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: cell in such a short period of time, so I
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: really don't remember if she was one of the people
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: or not. I can only remember actually two faces at
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: this present time. One is the medical person. I can't
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: remember his name. And the other one is... Question, how
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: do you spell redacted? Thomas, redacted. Question, okay, who is that? Thomas, officer. Question,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: just an officer that came in response. Thomas, mm-hmm. All right, folks,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: next episode dealing with the topic we're going to pick
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All the information that goes
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found... in the description box.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: where we left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the OIG inspectors. Question, and I'm sorry, you may have
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: said this, but I don't recall. After you did chest compressions,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: you said you did it for like a minute before
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: they responded. Thomas, yeah, maybe about a minute, nothing more
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: than a minute. Question, okay. Thomas, it seemed like a flash. Question, okay. Thomas,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: it seemed like a flash that everybody was inside the room. Question, okay.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And when they came in, what did they do? Thomas,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: once the medical staff, I can't remember his name, once
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: he came and was doing chest compressions, I know I
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: got a little exhausted and tired and everything like that.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: He was doing chest compressions. He put the AED on
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and that's about all I can remember that the guy
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: put the AED on And I know he told me
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to stand back. Question, all right. And did you, did
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: he check for a breath or pulse? Thomas, I really
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: can't remember. Question, do you know when they put the
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: AED on? Did it ever advise for a shock or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: anything like that? Thomas, I don't remember. Question, you don't recall? Thomas,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. Question, so when they came in, did
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you stay in the room? Or at that point, Thomas, yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I stayed in the room. Question, okay. Thomas, I actually
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: helped to carry him downstairs. Question, alright, and was that
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: medical personnel? Thomas, he was with us the whole time. Question,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and what was his name? Thomas, I can't really remember. Question, no. Thomas, um. Question,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: but he's the one who took over chest compressions. Thomas, yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: he took over chest compressions. He was in the room
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the whole time. Question, all right. And you said you
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: were trained on CPR though? Thomas, yeah. Question, okay, do
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you know when the last time you were trained on CPR?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Thomas had to be ART. Question, ART, are you always
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: every year trained on CPR? Thomas, every year at ART,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: there's training. Question, okay, so like April of 2019 would
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: have been the last time. Thomas, okay. Question, um, all right,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: so after a medical emergency called, walk me through that
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: a little bit in detail. What happened? So he came,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the medical person comes in, he starts going chest compressions.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: About how long is he doing that? Thomas, I don't know.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know how long he was doing them before
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: he put the AED on. I couldn't tell you how
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: long he was on before he actually put the AED.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Because the AED, right on the, you see the one
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: right there? And shoo. I know there's one right there
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: on the ninth floor. So I don't know how long
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: ago that he was doing chest compressions before he actually
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: put the AED on. I couldn't tell you. Maybe 30 seconds?
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question. And at that time, did you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: believe that he was alive or dead? Thomas. I had
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: so many things going through my mind. I was just
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: hoping everything worked out. Question, okay. So what was going
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: through your mind at the time? Thomas, a whole lot.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: What's going on? There's a man in front of me.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That's it. Just that it's
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a man in front of me hanging. I just seen
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: him hanging. Question, yeah. Had you ever had to respond
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: to something like that before? Thomas, yeah. Question, so you've
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: actually had to take people off from hanging on things? Thomas, no,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I've responded to like, I've maybe seen one other hanging,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: but they cut him down and like that. But he
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: was actually gotten alive when they were indiscernible. But yeah,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I've seen a few. Question, okay. And you have to
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: do the same type of thing. Thomas, well, nothing to
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: where they had to put the AED on a person,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: just some chest compressions and they were revived. Question, anybody
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: else die from it? Thomas, not that I would recall, no. Question, alright,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: but now you did say you ripped it down. You
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: didn't cut it down. Thomas, yeah, I just tipped it down,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: ripped it down. Question, in the past they actually cut
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it down, is what you just said. Thomas, I don't know. Question, oh,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I thought you just said that people were hanging, they
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: cut it down. Thomas, maybe if they cut it, or
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: if they ripped it down, I don't know, whatever, they
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: had at their disposal at the time. Question, okay, though
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: did you ever... Have to, he gets cut off by Thomas.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Cut somebody down? Thomas, no, this was my first time. Question,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that was your first time ever being the first responder? Thomas, yes. Question, okay.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And do they train you on that? On if you
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: come in and find someone hanging, what you're supposed to do? Thomas,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I don't remember specific training on like that, but I'm
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: not mistaken. It's life limb or something for the bureau
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: or something. I know I'm not supposed to just let
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: somebody sit there and hang. Question. No, I'm just saying, like,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: do they teach you how to like respond to these things? Thomas,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: maybe it's something in ART training. I don't know. Question. OK, so,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: you know, CPR was done in ART, but you're not
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: sure if it was in response. He gets cut off
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: by Thomas. It's in a particular response to if you
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: see somebody hanging, you do this. No. Question. Right. OK,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: but is that something that occurs a lot? People, inmates,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: hanging themselves at MCC? Thomas, not a lot, but you know,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: sometimes people have, you don't know what someone else's stressors are.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: They going through at home or what they're in for? Question, yeah,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I guess what I'm asking is like, does this happen
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: like once a week, once a month or once a year? Question, Mr. Thomas,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I've been there for 14 years. He's been there a
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: lot longer than me. I've seen maybe about seven hangings. Question,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: seven hangings? Thomas, uh-huh. Question, so if you were to
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: estimate about one every two years? Thomas, if you want
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: to break it down to that? Question, okay. What did
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you do after the medical emergency was called? Thomas, after
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I got him down? He gets cut off. No, I'm sorry.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: After they responded, what did you do? Thomas, after they responded,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I helped carry him downstairs. Question, you helped them? Thomas, yeah.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I help them on the stretcher carry him downstairs. Question,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: now downstairs, he gets cut off by Thomas to the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: medical floor. It's the second floor. Question, so if you
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: went all the way from the shoe all the way
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to the second floor? Thomas, yes. Question, okay. And you
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: were with them the whole time? Thomas, yes. I was
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: with them the whole time. And the medical staff was
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: with me. And it was a bunch of other people
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: in the elevator at the time. Question, and what were
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you doing during that time? Thomas, I was holding the stretcher. Question,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: because you were one of the people? Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: so was it just you and someone else? Thomas, yeah,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: me and three other people holding the stretcher. I don't
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: know who else was in there holding the stretcher. Staff
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: helping bringing him down. Question, so it was an actual
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: stretcher that you had to carry, not something like was
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: moving him? Thomas, yeah, yeah, it's on a stretcher. They
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: have stretchers on the wall and near like that you
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: have to carry. You get them to the thing and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: then you just go. Question, did they continue life-saving efforts? Thomas,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the whole time. Question, so while he was being moved
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: in the stretcher, people were like doing compressions? Thomas, yep. Question,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was there anything like on his face trying to give
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: him air or anything like that? Thomas, I don't recall.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I don't really remember. Question, okay, do you have pictures
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of that stuff? We actually have a ton of pictures.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: For each, do you remember or recall? Was this like,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: is that in medical? Thomas, it looks like. I don't
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: know if that's the ninth floor. Is that for, no,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: it says right here, that's EMS. Question, that's EMS. All right.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: So this isn't anything that's in the cell or anything
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: like that, what we're talking about. Thomas, no, that's not. No, no,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that's not. Question, this is after all the medical. Thomas, yeah,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: that's all medical. Question, do they know if any pictures
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: were taken while you were doing this medical emergency? Thomas,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I doubt it. I'm sure nobody stopped to grab a camera. Question, yeah, no.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Just because we have all these. Thomas, and again, I'm
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: not still. I didn't mean nothing by indiscernible. Question, so
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: none of these pictures have anything to do with you? Thomas, no. Question,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: were you even in the room during that? Thomas, I
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't in the room for none of that. Question, okay,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look like we have any pictures of that stuff.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: So from the shoe all the way down to the
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: second floor, you stay with him. You were carrying the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: stretcher and someone was doing compressions? Thomas, yep. Question, and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: trying to revive him. Thomas, so you said that. Responded
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to a medical personnel. I remember seeing and seeing the
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: medical personnel and I'm sure the lieutenant was there. Question,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: do you remember who the lieutenant was? Thomas, no, but
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I can remember who was there. Question, does Lieutenant Redacted
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: sound familiar? Does that make or help you recall? Thomas,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, maybe, maybe he was there. Question, so we
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: can go back to that duty agent roster. Thomas, it
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: shows that he came on in the morning. Question, yeah. Thomas,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: but you know the two hour prior, but he probably
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: was there. Question, so you think it was probably him?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And do you remember making any statements? After the medical
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: emergency ride? Thomas, I don't remember what I said. I
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: could have been saying a whole lot. I mean, like
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I said, I just seen a man hanging. Question, sure. Thomas,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't remember, exactly verbatim, what I said
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: or anything. Question, do you recall Noelle saying, we didn't
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: do our rounds at 3 a.m. and 5 a.m.? Thomas,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I don't recall her saying that. Question, alright. Thomas, I
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: don't remember seeing Noel after this, actually. After I carried
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: him downstairs. I don't even remember seeing Noel. Question. Do
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you recall saying to Noel that we didn't do the rounds?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Did you say that it was not Noel's fault and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: say we didn't do the rounds? We messed up. Thomas.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I don't remember saying that. I could have said that.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I don't remember saying it. Question. So you don't remember
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: saying it's not her fault. Thomas. No, I don't remember
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: saying anything. Like I said, I don't know what I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: said exactly from that time. It was three years ago. Question.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: All right. So my only question was, so that's the
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: statement we have, is that you stated she said we
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: didn't do the rounds and you said we didn't do
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: the rounds. We messed up. It's not Noelle's fault. And
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I was just wondering why you would say that it
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: wasn't her fault. Do you remember? Thomas, I really don't.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I really don't. Question. Yeah, you were just uttering things. Thomas,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: just uttering things like I said. I don't remember saying that.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I don't remember not saying that. I don't remember that
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: was said or who said that. I said that. Like
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I said, I don't remember saying it. Question. Okay, so
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like the only reason that I asked is
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: that it sounds like you were taking responsibility for the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: rounds and the counts. And I just wanting to know
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: if there was a reason why you would have been
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: taking responsibility. Like we said, you're both responsible. Thomas. Indiscernible. Question.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: So I don't know why you take responsibility over her
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: and saying it's not her fault. Thomas. I don't know
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: why I said anything like that if I said it.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Question you don't know? Thomas, like I said, I don't remember.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: There was a lot going on. All right, folks, we're
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here. And in the next
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.