Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / “Buzzwords”: DEX… and entomology w/ Mitch Trychta (Vizient)

Transcript

“Buzzwords”: DEX… and entomology w/ Mitch Trychta (Vizient) · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Welcome I Changemakers to the Deck Show with Tim Flower and Tom McGraw. Let's
0:07
get into it. Illo, everybody, welcome to the Deck Shows. I'm
0:11
psyched about today's guest. He's Mitch Trickter, seeing your project manager for Digital
0:16
Employee Experience at Visian. Mitch, we'll welcome to the show. So,
0:20
so, reading up on some of the ideas that we're going to get into
0:23
today, I get a sense we're going to be talking about the unlikely dovetailing
0:30
of digital employee experience and entomology. Is that correct? We'll get into it
0:35
properly and momentarily. I just want to make sure I have my terms correct
0:38
first. Yes, Yeah, that is that is pretty correct. It's it's
0:43
you know, kind of entomology as well as the underpinnings of animal behavior and
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how does has that kind of feed into what we then talk about when we
0:51
talk about digital experience and delivering a exceptional experience to our employees at their digital
0:58
endpoints as well as just day today. Right, we're going to get into
1:02
it then, Mitch, But let's let's begin by developing the terms a little
1:06
more fully. But we've just set out there briefly and hearing a bit more
1:10
about yourself. And you know, as I say on your LinkedIn, I
1:12
can see you have an academic background and background in research, so I think
1:17
it would be great to start to hear about that, and maybe with a
1:21
fuller explanation of entomology itself as well, would be what do you think?
1:25
Yeah, absolutely so, I, by no means would consider myself an incredibly
1:30
skilled entomologist. It happens to just kind of be the area of research I
1:36
gravitated too. But yeah, entomology is broadly speaking, the study of insects.
1:42
There are sub orders within entomology that are specific to different groups of insects.
1:48
So you know, an entomologist studies insects, a lepidopteris studies butterflies and
1:52
moths, so on and so forth, so a variety of things there.
1:57
So my interest in entomology was specifically centered or is still specifically centered around you
2:05
social insects in this case, you know, ones that build colonies or kind
2:08
of societies. These specifically ants. Bees were a little too tough because they
2:13
fly and sting, and I was just like, no, no, ants
2:15
generally don't fly unless they're mating and less stinging. Easier to avoid all together,
2:22
just better off. You know, you don't have to climb trees usually
2:23
to find them. They're already everywhere. So so, yeah, my specialty
2:28
was in ants, and it is really drawn to it because of the implications
2:32
of animal behavior, humans as animals and our psychological bases for behaviors and what
2:39
can we learn through ants through insects about how we operate as humans behaviorally.
2:46
What are kind of the rules, the general principles. And it's especially interesting
2:51
as we think about organizational behavior and how do we view ourselves in the structure
2:55
of a company, or how do we behave as individuals with in a company
3:00
or colony, and how that kind of relates all the way back to when
3:04
we talk about insects. So you know, we talk about the individual ants
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and ant colony and the individual's employees in a massive company, and that there
3:13
are behavioral mechanisms and forms of thinking that are kind of, you know,
3:17
very relatable to those two kind of ecosystems in their own right, and that
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you know, applying the thought of the animal behavior human psychology. And then
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when we talk about technology and digital experience, it all kind of connects through
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let's come to that momentary, Mitch. I want to get into those relationships
3:42
shortly, but just a couple of questions about the study of ants. Ants
3:46
are absolutely intriguing, right and indeed you made me think of the movie Ants
3:53
with the Z in that, which is of course a wonderful meditation on the
3:58
relationship between the individual and the collective. No, it sounds like where we're
4:01
going to be going in the discussion, but just before we before we do
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it, maybe hear something more about yourself. What if you were going to
4:09
start with one or two facts about ants that even to this day bewilder you
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the most. You know, just details of their their little civilizations which just
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boggle, boggle your mind. I would say one of my favorites is that
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I think, you know, this could be outdated research, but it is
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one that sticks in my mind. Is research showed that ants make decisions on
4:38
what they're going to do as individual ants based on their interactions with the ants
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around them, which may seem inconsequential, but you may ask yourself, you
4:46
know, how do we as people decide what we're going to do? How
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do ants decide what they're going to do? And they look around and it's
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who did they just most recently interact with and what was that person doing,
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or in this case ant doing. So you know, an ant that is
5:00
hatched in the center of the nest is first to interact with caregivers, so
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it becomes a caregiver. And then as it becomes a caregiver and ventures kind
5:08
of outside of that central sphere, it interacts with maybe ones that are cleaning
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or foraging, and then it has that opportunity to become that but it could
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go back to being a caregiver, and so on and so forth. So
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you end up with this really unique thing that the youngest ants tend to be
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at the center of the colony and the oldest are on the outsides where it
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is the most dangerous. But their behavior and what they're doing is based on
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who they've most recently interacted with, and I think that says a lot about
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even how we decide as humans, how we behave. I think my other
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favorite fact that a lot of people I think may know or may not know,
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is, you know, most ants are female. Ninety nine point ninety
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nine percent of them are female, just like how bees are for the most
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part, and that you know, males really exist to just mate and then
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be done with, and that all the work, all of it is done
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by females who are daughters of a central queen or in some cases multiple queens.
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So it poses this idea that a lot of people want to think about
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it as for the common good of everything. It's it's for the colony,
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it's for all of these things. But really, when we look at it
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evolutionarily and behaviorally and mathematically, it's not true altruism for the sake of altruism.
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It is purposeful. It is action for the purpose of the benefit of
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self. So I think it is once again an interesting view of how what
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we may perceive as a selfless action for the benefit of a colony is really
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for the benefit of oneself, because the benefit of oneself aligns with the benefit
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of the colony. And that has a lot to do with them all being
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sisters to a single or multiple queens and so on and so forth. But
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it's it's this really interesting thought because for a while it was just, oh,
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well, they only exist for the betterment of the colony, But in
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truth, evolutionarily, helping the colony is the most helpful thing they can do
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for themselves, and when they don't do it, there's usually a reason why
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that aligns with it is more beneficial for them to do something else. So
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it's this thought that like, they're pragmatic. They're very pragmatic and what they
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do and it's based on math and you know, millions of years of evolution,
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but I think, you know, those those would kind of be two
7:27
of my favorite you know, aunt facts if you will, I love it.
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The image I can't get out of my head, Mitch is I don't
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know if you ever had one as a kid, the glass wall, the
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box of sand, and you just watch the ant colony develop and grow,
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and correlating that to a typical office building is fascinating. Two guys look at
7:48
each other, Hey, let's go get a coffee, all right, and
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seven of us all get up. We all go get a coffee together because
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that's what everybody else is doing. Is fascinating imagery, absolutely, And it's
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not. It's the other part I really like about it is, you know,
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I don't want to belittle the amazing evolution that ants have and the remarkable
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abilities they have, but to my knowledge, they're not consciously choosing certain activities.
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They don't wake up and go I'm going to do this or that,
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and they don't always take the most effective route to food, and sometimes they
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forage in somewhat random patterns, and it still is emblematic of a lot of
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what we do as people. We don't necessarily know the most effective path.
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And even once we find a path to get somewhere, we don't necessarily then
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say all right, well we've got there. Now let's find the more effective
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means to get there. Let's find the single line instead of two lines to
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get there. And you know, ants operate on that same principle. If
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they found the way to get there, even if it's a six meter distance
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and it would be easier to travel one meter, they're going to generally travel
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that six meters because it's what they know and it's with the feedback they're getting.
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So it's it's very interesting from once again and a behavioral standpoint of,
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you know, how do we operate as people and how are we that?
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Where are we different? And where are we not? But yeah, glass
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glass walled ant colonies never got to have one, which is kind of a
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blessing. Aunts are incredibly difficult to keep. They are crafty as heck,
9:16
and we'll always find a way out of whatever you put them in. So
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would not recommend an aunt colony in your home. There's so many correlations though,
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to employee experience and doing things just because that's the way you know how
9:31
to do them, not necessarily because it's the right way, and learning how
9:35
to do learning a new path. Lots of things we could explore there,
9:39
but you know, before we do that, I thought I made an interesting
9:45
career move when I went from enterprise it into software sales, vastly different environments
9:52
for me. You took an even more significant shift. So was it almost
9:56
like you had a major and a minor. What was it that that took
10:01
you down the path of it after being so focused in entomology. Yeah,
10:07
so I think there's a there's a couple of different things. I think one
10:11
thing to state is that one of my parents went into finance and technology and
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the other went into psychology and medicine. So as someone who was raised by
10:22
you know, incredibly wonderful parents who were always saying, you know, trailblazer
10:26
on path, I had to say, well, of course I can't do
10:28
finance and technology or psychology or medicine. So I had to do my own
10:33
thing in the world of biology, and I always loved animals and all the
10:37
things in that realm, so it really just kind of was a natural fit.
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But as I progressed in my research and I did more research and I
10:46
spent more time in a lab, I realized that I really missed connecting with
10:50
people, and that it was kind of like, you know, I'd light
10:52
up when I get to share aunt facts or get to go to wherever and
10:56
do these things. So for me it really became okay research which was but
11:00
a means to connect people to ideas and thoughts and feelings and empower them to
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say, why does this matter? Why do ants matter to someone who does
11:09
SAP integrations? Why do ants matter to someone who was like a pilots in
11:16
the Air Force? What about these things? So when I was looking for
11:22
something that was a little more normal per se, I had just gotten back
11:24
from working on a deserted island for six ish eight months about and I was
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like, hey, I want to do something slightly less dangerous, slightly more
11:35
normal, something that pays slightly better too. I was approached and I was
11:39
given the opportunity of like, hey, what would your thoughts be about liaising
11:43
it and R and D needs, And I said, oh, that seems
11:48
pretty cool, that seems pretty interesting. That allows me to use you know,
11:50
my research background, my love for people and communicating with people and helping
11:56
people understand complex concepts and you know, making them accessible, engaging, empowering
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and actionable. So that was kind of where it began. And then I
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realized as I began working that my love really was with people, and it
12:11
was how can I use my scientific thinking and training and my love for animal
12:16
behavior and entomology and all of these things to make sense of the big,
12:20
wide world of technology that sometimes can be a big black box and people are
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just like, I don't know, Like if I have a veterinary surgeon,
12:28
who can do you know, brain surgery on a non human primate? But
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they don't understand how it capital planning works, Like that's not a deficit of
12:37
their intelligence by any means. It means, how do we simplify this process,
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how do we make it accessible and engaging? How do we even make
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some of our processes equitable to people? And so that's what really drove me
12:50
into this kind of world of it. Initially was I saw the real ability
12:56
to say, how do we make a remarkable impact on the day to day
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existence of people in this workplace leveraging empathy, psychology, science and all of
13:09
these things, but not in an ivory tower sense, in the boots on
13:15
the ground. Let's really build a relationship and meaning here and use these principles
13:20
to drive value and improve your your everyday experience. So I kind of found
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this this unique realm of wow. I get to leverage a lot of my
13:30
skills in a way that is, you know, unconventional and pushes boundaries.
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But it's also very exciting because I get to watch people feel empowered and watch
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relationships grow from a sense of mutual understanding and respect, as opposed to just
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like it's too hard, it's too technical, you'll never understand super cool,
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it's obvious why you took then to banks. I wonder if you could tell
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us the history that relationship with it. Where did you first come across the
14:03
concept or was it always implicit in what you were doing? And yeah,
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so it wasn't initially on my radar. I moved into a new role in
14:13
the infrastructure group and it was just kind of something that one of the other
14:18
leaders in the area had someone reporting to them who owned Next Think and by
14:24
the person who had hired me, knew I had a deep love for you
14:26
know, how do people really feel about things? Things? And you know
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the purpose of my role initially was going to be how how how do we
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get data behind what people's day to day experience is at different affiliate sites,
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let's say Singapore, let's say Germany, let's say wherever. How do we
14:48
figure out what their true human and technology pain point is and then get data
14:54
behind that to drive action. And so when I was introduced to next Think
15:00
and the concept of digital experience, this really kind of like a light bulb
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went off of my head of wow, this is at the intersection of so
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many things I love of be it, you know, the human the human
15:16
experience, the emotion, the empathy, but also the data behind it,
15:18
the scientific rigor behind it, and the ability to drive decision making through the
15:26
quantification and qualification of what some people would say, well it's too hard to
15:31
know how people feel or that's just flipping it and it's whatnot. And it
15:35
also you know, sit that this beautiful edge where you know, I think,
15:39
next Next Think is is a great asset here in like the UX and
15:45
the usability of it. And I think, you know, that's also something
15:48
that I've really been drawn to, is, you know, how do we
15:50
make things that are not only technically usable and functional but also beautiful? And
15:56
I think, you know next Think kind of scratches that itch for me because
16:00
it not only has these technical capabilities, but it also is visually appealing and
16:07
usable and and you know, is designed in such a way that it someone
16:11
like me who is non technical can say this has value to end users and
16:15
non technical leadership in a way that allows me to tell a story that is
16:21
both emotional, technical, numeric, whatever it is. I can tell a
16:27
storyline to every single person this audience using this type of data that drives meaning
16:33
and value in dollar signs, And that to me is kind of the full
16:40
crumber like intersection of what it is that I think I'm you know, meant
16:45
to do in this kind of it sphere or and that that hybrid of various
16:48
things. So when I was introduced to next Think, I was absolutely delighted
16:52
because I was like, here's something I can I can get fully on board
16:59
with, like matches my ethos of what I want to deliver to people.
17:03
No matter where I am. Yeah, it's good. It's good for the
17:07
colony, right, Yes, taking after the codon, you could almost say,
17:11
next thing is the glass wall looking in on the ants and seeing what
17:14
they're doing and are they effective? And yeah, I'm I'm really trying to
17:19
connect the dots between ants and it. Yeah, no, absolutely, and
17:23
I think, yeah, it's for the good of the colony. But it's
17:26
also for the good of the individual. And I think that's the really powerful
17:30
thing here, is that we're able to serve the good of those two things
17:33
without making them at odds with each other, which is truly the gateway to
17:38
success. When when success of the colony is not at odds of success of
17:42
the individual and the experience of the two of those can be intertwined and synergize
17:49
in a meaningful way. As I look out the window in my hotel at
17:55
the skyscrapers in Boston, I will never look at them the same. They
17:57
will all be ant colonies. It is yep, corporations. Each corporation is
18:03
a lot like an ant colony. This is one of my other fun facts
18:06
is that you know, let's say we have you know, we call fire
18:08
ants. Just generally everyone kind of knows fire ants. There's lots of different
18:12
types, but we won't get into that. We're gonna say fire ants,
18:15
and it's generally, you know, you can have fifty colonies of them.
18:18
Each one is unique, each one has its own genetic makeup, just like
18:22
companies. Each one responds differently to stimuli to a different degree. So let's
18:27
say a novel stimuli. Do they perceive it as threatening or interesting? How
18:33
do they respond to these things? And you can plot that and it usually
18:37
forms a normal curve, a response curve of some will be extremely adverse,
18:41
some extremely interested, most very much in the middle. And this is really
18:45
helpful when I think about the implementation of next think or you know, where
18:48
do we have low hanging fruit and what might be a more long term opportunity
18:53
on the other hand. So yeah, that's one of my other fun ant
18:56
facts is you know, colonies into visual ants per se don't have a personality.
19:03
But that's not to say individual humans don't. You definitely do. I
19:06
want to let you know you have personality and you matter or but the corporation
19:11
has a has Sorry, the corporation has a personality, and in the same
19:17
way that a colony does and that personality can also kind of be the underlying
19:22
culture in many cases. So when you say, you know, what's this
19:25
personality, think about it is your company culture? What are those invisible things
19:29
that you know if you plotted on a curve or against other companies, would
19:33
you then see what do you see as kind of using that the empathy coupled
19:41
with science. Where do you think that all leads to the future workforce in
19:45
the future of work? Yeah, I think that the future of work is
19:56
increasingly digital and increasing uh you know, metropolitan and and really diverse verse it's
20:07
work is becoming a larger, more complex ecosystem than it ever has been before.
20:14
And within that, one of the central things that we can really I
20:18
think with the rise of as we talk about things and the importance of things
20:22
like mental health, emotional well being and things like that, we're starting to
20:26
realize that these things are not inherently separate from the well being of the company
20:33
outputs and you know, happiness and workforce effectiveness and things are along those lines.
20:38
And so as we get to that, we have this ability to say,
20:41
oh, you know, we want to deliver for the business. We
20:44
want to deliver for the business. All about the business, well, the
20:47
business made of people with feelings and emotions and things of that nature, and
20:52
empathy allows you to get at that answer, to get what is the true
21:00
problem here? What's the true need here? Is it a technology need?
21:03
Maybe? Is it a human need? Maybe? Is it one or the
21:07
other? Sure? Could it be both, absolutely, But it's important that
21:11
we think about those things. And that's where you know, with the rise
21:14
of you know, centers of digital experience or you know, digital experience directors
21:19
or whatever it might be, an owner of that digital experience is essential,
21:23
especially as we look at the even younger workforce. I'm pretty young and I
21:27
grew up with a ton of technology, but the generation just under me has
21:33
even more endpoints in their life from an earlier age, and they expect highly
21:37
personalized, highly interactive, efficient, enjoyable, good, ux whatever it is
21:47
experiences digitally and without those, they're incredibly frustrated. So as we look at
21:52
the future of work and even the future of the workforce, it is it
21:56
hinges on delivering exceptional digital experiences. And delivering exceptional digital experiences is based on
22:06
understanding from an empathy standpoint, what is most important to that end user and
22:11
the truth is, you can guess at it all you want, but the
22:15
best way to know is to literally ask or boots on the ground, live
22:19
with them. And you know it's not tangible to do that in a company
22:22
of you know, sixty thousand and fifty thousand employees, but next think allows
22:27
that initial voice, It allows that initial interaction, and it shifts the conversation
22:33
of you know, it just kind of existing when you absolutely need them to.
22:38
Now it saying how can I help you? How can I be your
22:41
ally? How can I go from being the dreaded phone call to being maybe
22:48
a phone call you don't even have to have, and the positive sentiment you
22:51
can have instead of like, wow, that was easy, that was great.
22:52
And I last question for you for the day, for this fascinating conversation,
22:57
and that is, you know, we used to ask it's a lot
23:00
when it's a little more in vogue, and I feel like it's gone out
23:03
of vogue because circumstances. Circumstances have shifted over the last few months. But
23:07
you know there is going to be in the future more of a synthesis between
23:12
HR and IT. It's already gonna come a long way from where it was.
23:15
Yeah, and listening to you talk about it, I could imagine you
23:18
very much. Forefromt there, what is your vision of a role technology and
23:23
tools such as next Thing might play in the future in terms of sustaining not
23:29
just digital employee experience, but employee experience at large. Oh gosh, I
23:33
mean I think it is like I said, when we look at our younger
23:37
generation, who will one day be, you know, the center of our
23:41
workforce. Their experience is digital experience. It is you know, did this
23:47
app work? Is my phone working? We have become so accustomed to that
23:52
that it is at the center of things. You cannot if I talk to
23:55
you today and said, how is my day, and I told you,
23:57
well, my day was fine, my wi if I didn't work, my
24:00
phone was broken, my computer's gone, and all of these things days bad.
24:03
There's no good day with those things happening. And as we think about
24:07
that, that is just all the more relevant to the upcoming generations and even
24:15
the workforce today, which is highly technology dependent. So you can't. I
24:19
do not think you can separate an IT experience from a or a digital experience
24:29
from a overall experience. Those two things are combined because our digital experiences shape
24:33
how we interact interpersonally. In many cases even with people. If my Microsoft
24:40
teams isn't working, this can hamper my ability to have an effective relationship,
24:45
business relationship, personal relationship, whatever it is with a teammate, with a
24:49
business colleague, with whatever is. So those things directly hinge on each other.
24:55
And I think it also is as we as we as a society,
25:00
like I said, have normalized the importance of personal well being, that empathy
25:07
component, that understanding where you are emotionally, and that emotion has there are
25:15
dollar signs tied to emotion. There are dollar sized tied to emotion when it
25:18
comes to your workforce, not just the customer, not just the client,
25:22
but your workforce inside when they are sad or upset or happy or whatever,
25:26
there's money associated with it, and that that's a really powerful driver. And
25:32
that as society has shifted to say we value this more. Therefore, so
25:37
have company stakeholders and you know interns, so have large corporations. So I
25:42
think the future is really we're going to see somewhat of a juxtaposition, maybe
25:48
it seems, you know, counterintuitive. We're going to see a more digital
25:51
workforce that also has higher emotional kind of needs that need to be met by
26:02
the company. They're going to have a higher level of emotional intelligence and uh,
26:08
you know mean level of average level of needs that are going to need
26:12
to be met. And it's not just about meeting those from the standpoint of
26:17
saying I check this box, but but finding that middle ground of did I
26:22
check the box? And are you know ninety five percent of the people actually
26:26
happy about this or do they just feel like this was transactional? Well,
26:30
and so you know, it's it's an interesting place to be in to to
26:34
want to do more work, but that work needs to become increasingly more personalized,
26:40
to deliver things more at scale, but to do so with empathy and
26:45
knowledge of the experience of your even larger scale of end users. But that's
26:52
that's the fun of it. That's the challenge. That's the road that we've
26:55
not ventured down, and the only pathway is forward. And so you know,
27:00
there's there's no mistakes. And I think this is where you know,
27:03
my science comes out is that, like you know, the best discoveries,
27:07
whether they want to tell you or not, many of them are are incidental.
27:11
It wasn't like this great light bulb moment and they were like, ha
27:15
ha, I have a revelation. It was like, well, I tried
27:18
this, it didn't work, but I then changed this and it did and
27:19
like then you think why did it? And you discover a new pathway.
27:22
And that's where digital experience is so exciting for me, because the only way
27:27
forward is to truly try. And yes, trying is scary, but trying
27:33
is necessary if we want to get to where we already want to be today
27:37
and where we have our eyes set on for tomorrow. That is awesome and
27:41
I'm looking if you want to hear more of Mitch is awesome thoughts, I
27:45
believe, correct me if I'm not wrong, Mitch, But you're going to
27:47
be a guest. Post is coming up on the decks, I think,
27:49
so yeah, I'll have something on there. I don't know how much they'll
27:55
have to do with ants, but you know, we'll figure it out.
27:57
We'll figure out. I've been disappointed to today science, but we'll see.
28:00
We'll have we'll have you back here, we'll have you on videx. I've
28:03
in the future of course as well. I'm sure and listen mate, thanks
28:07
again. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no problem by to make sure that
28:14
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28:18
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28:25
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28:29
Think can help you improve your digital employee experience, head over to nextthink dot
28:33
com. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.