Latest / The Uplifters / Finding Love After 40 — And the Fourth Date Rule

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Finding Love After 40 — And the Fourth Date Rule · The Uplifters

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SPEAKER_00: It's jointhetribe.com, T-R-Y-B.com.
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SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm Miranda Savas.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: If you're new here,
1:24
SPEAKER_00: this is the place where we talk to inspiring,
1:27
SPEAKER_00: courageous women in the second half of life who are doing bold,
1:30
brave things and who are generous enough to pull back the
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curtain and share what
1:34
SPEAKER_00: that really looks like,
1:36
the hard parts and what makes it easier so that we can all
1:40
learn and grow together.
1:42
This month in the spirit of February,
1:44
we've been exploring love in all its forms.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about mother love,
1:48
SPEAKER_00: self-love,
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SPEAKER_00: the deep and underrated magic of later life friendship.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: And today we're closing out the series with romantic love.
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SPEAKER_00: specifically the complicated,
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SPEAKER_00: courageous,
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SPEAKER_00: and surprisingly hopeful adventure of looking for love in midlife.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Here's what the data tells us.
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SPEAKER_00: More than 30% of Americans over 50 are single.
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SPEAKER_00: So that's like 37 million people.
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And while two thirds of those people say they're not actively
2:20
looking for those who
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SPEAKER_00: are,
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SPEAKER_00: the news is actually pretty good.
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SPEAKER_00: A 2023 online dating survey found that singles between 43 and 58
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SPEAKER_00: reported the most success with online dating of any age group,
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SPEAKER_00: with 72% saying their efforts led to a real romantic relationship.
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SPEAKER_00: So maybe love in the second half of life isn't a consolation prize.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's just the place where we finally know enough to get it right.
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SPEAKER_00: Which brings me to my guest today.
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SPEAKER_00: Alyssa Deneen is a published author,
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SPEAKER_00: a dating coach,
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SPEAKER_00: and the founder of Style My Profile,
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which is a transformative coaching practice she built to help
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online daters feel
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SPEAKER_00: more confident and empowered as they navigate the modern dating world.
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SPEAKER_00: Alyssa came to this work through her own experience,
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SPEAKER_00: leaving an 18-year marriage in her early 40s,
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SPEAKER_00: rediscovering herself through the dating process,
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and eventually finding her partner on Tinder after four dates
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and a lot of
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SPEAKER_00: patience,
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SPEAKER_00: especially on his part.
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SPEAKER_00: I met Alyssa at a party where neither one of us knew anyone.
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We both wanted to leave early,
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but somehow we walked out with a new friend and a guest.
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SPEAKER_00: I've been so excited to introduce you to.
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SPEAKER_00: She is warm.
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SPEAKER_00: She is wise.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: She is practical.
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SPEAKER_00: And she's helped so many people find love at every age, including...
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SPEAKER_00: a woman who met the love of her life and got married at 84.
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SPEAKER_00: So for every woman who's ever thought it's too late for me, it's not.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
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SPEAKER_00: Alyssa, thanks so much for being here today.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm really happy to be here.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was so happy to meet you that night,
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SPEAKER_03: not just because we were both totally alone,
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but now I feel like it's going to continue on and we have a
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friendship now,
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SPEAKER_03: which is amazing.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: It's so great.
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And for all of you who are coming to Uplifters Live,
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you'll get to meet Alyssa in person there.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
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SPEAKER_00: This is just like the teaser.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
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SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
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SPEAKER_03: So I'm happy to be here.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Take us back to your love story.
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SPEAKER_03: So I was married to my ex-husband for about 18 years.
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We were together and it was a slowly deteriorating relationship
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where it was very oppressive.
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SPEAKER_03: And there were many times when I look back and I think,
4:50
SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: I should have left sooner,
4:52
SPEAKER_03: all of those things.
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SPEAKER_03: But of course, you know, I just wasn't ready.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: But I finally did it in my early 40s and it was scary,
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but I moved out on my own and I couldn't believe the weight
5:04
that was lifted off of
5:05
SPEAKER_03: me.
5:05
SPEAKER_03: I really felt like a new person,
5:08
SPEAKER_03: but also kind of a new person that didn't really know themselves yet.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: I was light and I felt so free, which was amazing.
5:16
SPEAKER_03: But I just really didn't know who I was anymore.
5:19
I really adapted myself to what he wanted me to be,
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which in hindsight sounds so crazy.
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SPEAKER_03: But I know a lot of people do, more people than you'd think do that.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: Of course.
5:30
But we talk all the time on this show about the fact that we
5:33
are the sum total of
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SPEAKER_00: the people we spend time with.
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SPEAKER_00: And that can work for us or against us.
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And I think you're just sharing an example of where that can
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really work against us.
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SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: That's, yeah, that's so true.
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SPEAKER_03: So when I was on my own and newly single,
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SPEAKER_03: and I had two young daughters at the time,
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SPEAKER_03: now they're older,
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SPEAKER_03: but I really wanted to get out there and date.
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And really,
5:55
because it wasn't just,
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oh,
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I want to get into a new relationship.
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SPEAKER_03: It was really, I just want to meet new people and have fun.
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I was just like,
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I'm free and I'm just going to live my life right now for a
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while and
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SPEAKER_03: And I did see myself eventually wanting to meet a new partner,
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SPEAKER_03: but at the time it was really just an exploration.
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SPEAKER_03: I really just rediscovered who I was through dating.
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SPEAKER_03: And I know that sounds really strange,
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SPEAKER_03: but I,
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SPEAKER_03: with each new person,
6:24
SPEAKER_03: you're meeting a stranger and
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SPEAKER_03: And you're kind of reflected back to yourself,
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SPEAKER_03: to this other person,
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first in how you describe yourself and what you decide to tell
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them and not tell
6:35
SPEAKER_03: them.
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SPEAKER_03: And it was really,
6:37
SPEAKER_03: with each person I dated,
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I was really telling my story and realizing I had so much more
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to offer than I was
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SPEAKER_03: led to believe during my marriage.
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And it really just was such a,
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not just a confidence booster,
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but really just a
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I mean,
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everything like self-discovery and self-esteem and all of those
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important things.
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SPEAKER_03: And I really found that through dating,
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which I think a lot of people who have not had a good dating
7:05
experience are like,
7:06
SPEAKER_03: what the hell are you talking about?
7:08
SPEAKER_03: But I think it was the attitude I went into it with,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
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SPEAKER_03: like I really wasn't,
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SPEAKER_03: I wasn't attached to the outcome,
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SPEAKER_03: which I think is really important when you're newly dating.
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And I just wanted,
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I really truly just wanted to meet new people and meet myself
7:22
again.
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SPEAKER_03: So I did that and I online dated, I did the whole thing.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: I was on, you know, Tinder and Bumble and all the things.
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SPEAKER_03: And I eventually, after over two years, met my now partner.
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SPEAKER_03: We met on Tinder and which everybody laughs about.
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SPEAKER_03: At the time, it was a little more relationship focused.
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SPEAKER_03: Now it's kind of back to being the hookup app.
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SPEAKER_03: But anyway, we met on there and...
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SPEAKER_03: It wasn't an immediate fireworks type of thing.
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SPEAKER_03: We really got to know each other.
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SPEAKER_03: And it was like after date four,
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which was kind of a lot of people give up if there's no
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chemistry in this first or
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SPEAKER_03: second dates.
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SPEAKER_03: But we were on date four and that's when it really clicked.
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SPEAKER_03: We got to know each other just a little bit better.
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SPEAKER_03: And it was really just,
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it was just a wonderful experience meeting someone and really
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getting to know them
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SPEAKER_03: and then realizing once I got to know him better,
8:12
SPEAKER_03: how much I really liked him and how much we had in common.
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So we're basically from then on together and we've been
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together almost nine years,
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SPEAKER_03: which is crazy.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: But when we first started dating,
8:24
SPEAKER_03: I was a stylist,
8:24
SPEAKER_03: a fashion stylist for many,
8:26
SPEAKER_03: many years,
8:26
SPEAKER_03: decades.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: And he was saying,
8:29
SPEAKER_03: we're talking,
8:30
SPEAKER_03: lamenting how when you go online,
8:33
SPEAKER_03: there's a lot of people's profiles who could really use some help.
8:38
He was saying you should go back online and find people to
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style for their profile.
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SPEAKER_03: So many people could use this.
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SPEAKER_03: So smart.
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SPEAKER_03: So that was kind of how the idea was born, but it eventually evolved.
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SPEAKER_03: And it's so much more than just styling someone's profile at this point.
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It really is just helping people with mindset and their
8:57
approach to dating and
8:59
SPEAKER_03: honestly strategy because dating apps can be pretty rough.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: So just having a strategy behind you is so helpful.
9:07
And now I've been able to help so many other divorced people
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who were in my
9:12
SPEAKER_03: position and my partner's position where we,
9:14
SPEAKER_03: you know,
9:14
you really don't know what you're doing and you're kind of
9:16
self-taught because
9:17
SPEAKER_03: there's no class.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: There was no class to how to learn how to online date.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: I just kind of, you kind of thrown to the wolves and figure it out.
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But now I really like to help people and hold their hands so
9:28
they're not feeling as
9:29
SPEAKER_03: confused and lost and kind of avoid that learning curve period.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:35
SPEAKER_03: Now people have met their loves of their lives, which I love.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: It's just so rewarding.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's how this all started.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
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SPEAKER_00: This idea of finding yourself through dating is really powerful.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: For me, I've been with my husband now for well over 20 years.
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SPEAKER_00: I think I really learned to love myself.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: through his love of me.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: To see myself through a more loving eye,
10:03
SPEAKER_00: which has been so powerful and like the greatest gift of my life,
10:07
SPEAKER_00: truly.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: That is truly a gift.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: But I learned to hide myself through my career.
10:14
So my career,
10:15
in some ways,
10:16
the ending of it was really like my bad marriage story.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Because I'd been in the same company for 18 years.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: It was a great, fabulous love affair for a very long time.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And then the last few years,
10:29
I felt like I was told to go and hide in a corner and be quiet
10:34
and not make any
10:34
SPEAKER_00: noise so that I wouldn't be seen and erased.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: And it was really damaging and it took me a long time.
10:42
And I think the podcast has been a huge part of that to sort of
10:46
date my way
10:47
SPEAKER_00: through,
10:48
SPEAKER_00: whether it's my consulting,
10:49
SPEAKER_00: my coaching,
10:50
SPEAKER_00: my podcasting.
10:51
This entire career that I've built since my corporate career
10:55
has been so much of
10:57
SPEAKER_00: what you said you received through dating.
10:59
And so I was just fascinated by the parallels in that as I
11:01
listened to it.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: That is a really interesting parallel.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I never thought about that.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So my observation of dating and frankly,
11:10
looking for jobs is that we want to be seen for our gifts and
11:16
our offerings by
11:17
SPEAKER_00: others.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: And so that expectation creates a lot of anxiety.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: It creates a lot of pressure on both sides.
11:26
It creates a lot of dishonesty and preening and all of that
11:32
builds walls and
11:33
SPEAKER_00: barriers to connection.
11:37
And so I think the kind of fundamental shift that I hear in
11:39
what you're saying,
11:40
SPEAKER_00: what if we go into relationship building friends and
11:45
anything with that intention of,
11:49
I'm just trying to be the truest version of me.
11:51
So I'm curious what that has meant in your dating work and how
11:57
that shifted how
11:58
SPEAKER_00: people show up in the search process.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: This word is so overused at this point,
12:04
but being authentic in your profile and in your first dates and
12:09
really trying to be
12:10
SPEAKER_03: yourself is so important.
12:12
It's actually unbelievable how many people pretend to be
12:17
something else just to get
12:19
SPEAKER_03: people to like them.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: And I see it happening in real time.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: More women than men, but I see it happen with men, too.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: where they want to present themselves in this very bland way,
12:29
SPEAKER_03: or they don't want to,
12:30
SPEAKER_03: if I say that,
12:31
SPEAKER_03: won't it seem like maybe I'm this way?
12:34
SPEAKER_03: And what I have to try to coach people on is like,
12:36
SPEAKER_03: yes,
12:37
SPEAKER_03: you want to seem that way because that is who you are.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: And you want to repel the people that don't appreciate that in you.
12:45
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think that way either.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: I really,
12:48
once I stepped back from it and once I started working with
12:50
more and more clients,
12:52
I realized how important it is because you don't want to
12:54
attract everybody.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: You do want to stay true to yourself.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really hard for people.
12:59
I think people want to just attract as many people as possible
13:03
and especially with
13:04
SPEAKER_03: online dating and then like weed out from there.
13:06
But actually you want to have that cut,
13:09
basically repel people,
13:11
as I said.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you want to be as authentic as you possibly can.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: And again, authenticity has become overused.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: But in this situation, it really is just the word that works.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: It's perfect.
13:25
We don't want somebody who doesn't stand for something because
13:27
we know that we all
13:28
SPEAKER_00: stand for something.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: And then it just feels like this person's hiding and lying.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: And so we don't trust them.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the fourth date.
13:39
So there is a lot of research I know that to show that we come
13:44
into dating with an
13:47
expectation of instant knowing that our instincts will tell us
13:53
in the moment.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: I think probably more harm has been done by West Side Story than we know.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:59
The West Side Story image of like across a crowded room,
14:03
we see one another.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you and I sort of did that, but that's beside the point.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: With friendships, it's different.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: But how do you help people reconcile that need to let down some walls,
14:21
SPEAKER_00: to get curious and to create enough connection that there can be trust?
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: You mean when you're first meeting someone?
14:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is hard.
14:35
It is so hard because...
14:36
Because we're like faking it when we first meet somebody,
14:38
right?
14:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: And we all do it.
14:41
I mean,
14:41
of course,
14:42
you're presenting a version of you that's going to be pleasant
14:45
and likable.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: And of course, that's just human nature.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: But I love this question so much because...
14:50
So many people are looking for that immediate connection across
14:54
the lock eyes,
14:56
SPEAKER_03: the chemistry,
14:57
SPEAKER_03: the spark,
14:57
SPEAKER_03: the fantasy of in the Disney movies ruined us all,
15:01
SPEAKER_03: too.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: For sure.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I just went with the old lady version of the example.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: No.
15:09
And but I mean,
15:09
and someone else I just talked to the other day was saying,
15:12
SPEAKER_03: I think we're all still looking for that feeling when we were 16 or 17,
15:16
SPEAKER_03: when it just all felt so amazing.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: Sparks are flying.
15:20
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it's like your first time being like that with somebody.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: We're all still looking for that.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: That doesn't exist in your 50s anymore.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: It will develop to that, but it's not going to happen in the future.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: The first date or two or when you first meet.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: Usually it's we met.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: I liked the person.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: There wasn't any crazy chemistry, but we got to know each other.
15:44
SPEAKER_03: So whether that's two dates,
15:45
SPEAKER_03: three dates,
15:46
SPEAKER_03: four dates,
15:47
SPEAKER_03: five dates and six dates,
15:49
SPEAKER_03: no joke,
15:49
SPEAKER_03: where most people would give up by then.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't feel the chemistry, so I'm done.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: The way to gauge is like, do I want to be friends with this person?
15:56
SPEAKER_03: Would I still want to be friends with them?
15:58
SPEAKER_03: And if the answer is yes, then you keep going.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: And I've seen the romance develop.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: And so it's because we're older and maybe it's we have walls up.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's we've been burned.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: It could be a lot of reasons.
16:10
Or maybe it's simply that we're really freaking shy and our
16:14
real true personality
16:15
SPEAKER_03: doesn't come out for several dates or several meetings.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: So I think that people give up too soon looking for that,
16:24
SPEAKER_03: chasing that looking across the room vibe.
16:27
SPEAKER_03: And it's unfortunate because,
16:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
16:29
SPEAKER_03: that's a lot of what I teach is we call it the four-day minimum.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: And I see it happen on a weekly basis,
16:36
SPEAKER_03: honestly,
16:38
SPEAKER_03: where people like give something a chance and then it blossoms.
16:42
Looking back over your first four dates with your partner,
16:45
what really shifted?
16:47
SPEAKER_03: This big joke with me is like, what happened?
16:49
SPEAKER_03: What?
16:51
Why weren't you wanting...
16:52
Because was he already feeling it at date one?
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: Well, the first date, it was over coffee.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: So it was a little pretty like just meet and greet.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: And then he asked me for the second date.
17:01
So he was definitely interested and I was interested,
17:03
but that was it so far.
17:05
SPEAKER_03: We went out to dinner a week later.
17:06
SPEAKER_03: He was definitely feeling it at that point.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: I was still... There was something I really liked about him.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: And I trusted him.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: I felt safe with him.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: And I loved that he wanted to know more about me.
17:18
It was like very much we each asked each other so many
17:22
questions and we were both
17:23
SPEAKER_03: we were both curious.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: Going back to what you said earlier,
17:27
SPEAKER_03: curiosity is so important in dating and in every in friendships and in,
17:32
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:32
SPEAKER_03: in everything,
17:33
really just being curious about someone that can be like the
17:37
shift that changes
17:38
SPEAKER_03: everything.
17:39
SPEAKER_03: So we were genuinely curious about each other.
17:41
And then on the third date,
17:43
I almost,
17:44
I kind of got into my head about,
17:46
well,
17:47
I'm just not sure.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: I'm not feeling that major chemistry yet, but I still liked him.
17:52
SPEAKER_03: I still enjoyed myself.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: He made me laugh.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Again, I felt super secure.
17:57
I don't know,
17:58
even my daughters,
17:59
whenever there's like a real issue,
18:00
they call him before me.
18:02
Give it something like an emergency because they're like,
18:06
Yoav knows how to fix everything.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
18:08
SPEAKER_03: he'll find a solution.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: And that is kind of the vibe he gives people.
18:12
SPEAKER_03: Like you feel like he's going to take care of you,
18:15
SPEAKER_03: not in a,
18:16
SPEAKER_03: you know,
18:16
SPEAKER_03: a misogynistic way,
18:17
SPEAKER_03: but I can help you.
18:19
SPEAKER_03: And so that was very appealing.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: But on the third date, he teases me now.
18:24
SPEAKER_03: He's like, you didn't even want to kiss me goodnight.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I wasn't sure.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: And then he
18:29
SPEAKER_03: He asked me out on a fourth date.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: I really was on the fence, but I said yes.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: And it was just crazy how everything just clicked that date.
18:37
And it was like,
18:37
I think he had let his veneer of politeness,
18:41
like he was more funny.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: I probably let down some of my guards too.
18:46
The combination of both of us feeling more comfortable around
18:49
each other was just,
18:51
SPEAKER_03: that was the recipe.
18:52
So,
18:53
and then it was like,
18:53
from then on,
18:54
I just,
18:54
we both just knew that was it.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: There was no question.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
18:58
So,
18:58
yeah,
18:58
I mean,
18:58
I tell people that story not to be like,
19:01
that's how it should happen.
19:02
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: It's more just being open and hearing that this is a real experience.
19:08
SPEAKER_03: This can happen to you.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't just happen on no relationship happens in the same way.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm just not looking for that rom-com ridiculousness.
19:20
SPEAKER_03: I love to watch a rom-com.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong.
19:22
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it ruined us all.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
19:27
And it ruins our expectations of what it takes to be curious
19:32
and to get to know
19:33
another person and to make a decision about a person and not an
19:37
idea of a person.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:40
And I think a lot of that is rooted to your point in our
19:44
histories,
19:44
right?
19:45
SPEAKER_00: You had been in a relationship that created a lot of distrust.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:51
And so naturally,
19:53
all that history is coming into your perception of other
19:55
people.
19:56
And so anything that feels like it might not be a fit is going
19:59
to tell your brain,
20:00
SPEAKER_00: hey,
20:01
SPEAKER_00: this could be a signal that everything's wrong.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Right?
20:05
Like we make a bunch of assumptions and that's our brain
20:08
survival mechanism.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yay, brains.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for keeping us alive.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: And it can be a real barrier to growth.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: At what point do you tell people though,
20:19
SPEAKER_00: like,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: okay,
20:21
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
20:21
SPEAKER_00: that you ran the course,
20:23
SPEAKER_00: this person is just your friend or this person is not for you?
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I do have to say that.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: Once in a while, I'll have a client that will follow my advice.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: And again, this should... When I hear a client say...
20:36
SPEAKER_03: I heard your voice telling me I should go out with this person again.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: And I so I said yes, but and I'm like, you shouldn't be feeling right.
20:45
SPEAKER_03: You shouldn't be like another night with this person.
20:48
You should be like excited to spend time with them as you would
20:51
with going out with a friend.
20:52
SPEAKER_03: When you have plans to go to dinner with a friend,
20:54
you're excited to see them and you're excited to talk and catch
20:57
up and whatever.
20:58
it should still be a level of curiosity and excitement and
21:03
wanting to get to know
21:04
SPEAKER_03: the person better.
21:06
SPEAKER_03: So I think that's just the shift.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: But so yeah, I've had to kind of call people out.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: I had one client actually, kudos to her.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: She was like on date nine.
21:15
SPEAKER_03: She's like, I'm going again.
21:16
SPEAKER_03: And it was really funny.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: And they just,
21:19
SPEAKER_03: there's,
21:20
SPEAKER_03: it was just not,
21:21
SPEAKER_03: there's no chemistry,
21:22
SPEAKER_03: but they kept saying yes to each other.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: And date nine,
21:26
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, I don't know, Alyssa, should I call it?
21:29
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, yes, it's time to call it.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: She was really, really trying to make that happen.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: At some point, he's just a friend and that's okay.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:38
One of the things I love about your stories again and again is
21:41
we see the power of
21:42
having a sounding board and the risk of not having a sounding
21:46
board because it was
21:48
SPEAKER_00: really fortunate that you decided to go on that fourth date.
21:51
You and your daughters would have missed out on if you hadn't
21:54
just gone on that fourth date.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't have Alyssa coach in your brain.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: You had Alyssa who'd been through a horrible divorce in your brain.
22:04
It really is sort of a miracle that I actually ended up going
22:07
on that fourth.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: In hindsight, I'm like, I don't even know why.
22:10
SPEAKER_03: I really don't know why I did.
22:11
SPEAKER_03: It was kind of one of those things.
22:14
SPEAKER_03: And it was obviously fate was there's some other thing.
22:17
SPEAKER_03: Power at play.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean, it's just I am so thankful that I did.
22:23
SPEAKER_03: And I've seen other people say the same thing happened to them.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: One of my other coaches on my team,
22:30
SPEAKER_03: she had a very similar situation and they just got married last summer.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: but it took her five dates.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: She was like, I just don't know.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: He's just so nice.
22:38
SPEAKER_03: He's just, I think he's too nice.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: And she kept saying that.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, but you like being around him, right?
22:44
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, yeah, yeah, I do.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: I really do.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: I really enjoy his company.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: He's so nice.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like,
22:49
SPEAKER_03: we laugh.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: It's very comfortable.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: He's just so nice.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I think you're just used to dating the bad boys.
22:57
SPEAKER_03: And she didn't really see it that way.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: Obviously, now in hindsight, she totally sees it.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: She's like,
23:02
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
23:03
it was going for like the musician who traveled all the time
23:06
and blew me off and
23:07
SPEAKER_03: never texted me.
23:08
SPEAKER_03: And here is this guy that was nice.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: We joke around about it now.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: It's like her thing was that he was too nice.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: And now she's like,
23:15
SPEAKER_03: He's so nice.
23:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm so lucky.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about that.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Because again,
23:20
SPEAKER_00: from a habit science and brain science perspective,
23:23
she was responding to the neural pathways in her brain that
23:28
said you loved a guy
23:29
once who was a bad boy guitar player and ignored you and made
23:34
you feel like crap
23:35
SPEAKER_00: about yourself,
23:36
SPEAKER_00: but also really energized and excited you.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: That is what love is.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And so that pattern was developed in her brain.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard for us to reprogram that.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think her story is at all unusual.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
23:51
Because so many of us are taught that like love should be pain
23:54
and hurt and...
23:55
And exciting.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And exciting.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And mysterious.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm married to a really nice grown-up man.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: I am not married to a man.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: He's not a dude, but he's a man.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: And I really like being married to a grown up nice man.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
24:10
That's not what we were taught to love as little kids where we
24:13
were learning like these ideas.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: Not at all.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
24:16
you had some kind of foresight or something because I feel like
24:19
not many of us did
24:20
SPEAKER_03: at that age.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: It was very lucky, honestly.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what happened.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: You said that to me actually the night we met.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: You're like, I'm just lucky.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, no, no.
24:28
But you obviously...
24:29
Maybe this is my last life and all my other lives informed me.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it is.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: I like that.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about past lives now.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: On this episode.
24:43
No,
24:43
but I love that because not many people I know went for the
24:48
grown-up guy in our 20s.
24:50
SPEAKER_03: No.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: Hell no.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
24:52
SPEAKER_03: we're all chasing after the,
24:54
SPEAKER_03: the,
24:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
24:55
SPEAKER_03: I married the artist who was like brooding and,
24:58
SPEAKER_03: you know,
24:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
25:00
SPEAKER_03: God,
25:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
25:01
SPEAKER_03: I literally brought that on myself.
25:04
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I get why you did it.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: And it formed who I am.
25:10
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't have my amazing daughters.
25:12
I'm very lucky,
25:14
but no,
25:15
but we weren't all going for that mature,
25:18
real life.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: person.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: We just weren't.
25:22
We were going for the mysterious guy who blew you off and then
25:26
surfaced again and
25:27
SPEAKER_03: was like,
25:27
and then you felt so like that excitement all over again and
25:31
the anxiety and the
25:33
SPEAKER_03: butterflies.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: And I think we're all
25:36
SPEAKER_03: I think that's the thing is I see people still doing it at our age,
25:40
SPEAKER_03: like in their 50s,
25:41
SPEAKER_03: even 60s.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: My clients, I've clients in their 60s and 70s even.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: And I see it happen with them, too.
25:48
It's like I think you're still attached to that idea that like
25:52
falling in love
25:53
SPEAKER_03: should be there should be mystery and chase and insecurity.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: And that's just not, that's not how it should be.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm getting sick to my stomach.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: I know.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: You're like, it's making me nervous just thinking about it.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Talking about butterflies, not the good kind.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: So how do you help people get out of that?
26:10
SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think the butterflies are not necessarily a good thing.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: I think it's just...
26:16
SPEAKER_03: It could be just a form of anxiety or like, that's like that excitement.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: When you're on a roller coaster, you can get butterflies.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: Like it's not necessarily a sign of the love of your life.
26:27
SPEAKER_03: I think people get, it's really hard.
26:30
SPEAKER_03: The open-minded people really do hear me and they listen.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: And I'm, I really, those are the people that need somebody, honestly.
26:37
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of people that are really still stuck on,
26:39
SPEAKER_03: nope,
26:39
SPEAKER_03: I have to feel attracted to the person.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying you shouldn't.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: Of course you should feel attracted to the person.
26:45
SPEAKER_03: But that might not be on the first or second date.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: And don't get me wrong.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: It's not that I didn't find you of attractive.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: I did.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: It was just that I didn't think he was the right person for me.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: But I thought he was attractive.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: I thought he was smart.
26:59
I thought he was funny,
27:00
which is why I kept,
27:01
you know,
27:02
going out with him.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: But
27:03
SPEAKER_03: I think people are like, don't tell me to settle.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to settle.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: That is definitely not at all what I want you to do.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: There should be a sexual chemistry,
27:12
SPEAKER_03: of course,
27:13
SPEAKER_03: but that might not happen on the first or second date.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
I'm going to take it back to a work analogy,
27:19
which is like you get offered a high salary,
27:23
right?
27:24
SPEAKER_00: But everything about the rest of the job feels hard or not, right?
27:29
And so I think that one thing that was so alluring that it
27:33
feels like the promise
27:34
SPEAKER_00: and so you say,
27:35
SPEAKER_00: okay...
27:36
And really,
27:37
then you know you're going to be miserable,
27:39
but you're going to get paid.
27:42
And I think sexual attraction is kind of like that because our
27:46
human brains are
27:46
SPEAKER_00: wired for pleasure.
27:48
And so in both instances,
27:51
there is a survival instinct literally kicking in.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: that is out of sync with our modern world and our modern needs,
27:59
SPEAKER_00: and certainly our midlife woman needs,
28:02
SPEAKER_00: who has so many options for meeting all of our needs.
28:06
And maybe we just kind of go back to something that's a little
28:09
bit primal in that
28:10
SPEAKER_00: response that's out of date for today.
28:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_03: No,
28:15
SPEAKER_03: and that's a great analogy with the dream job or on the surface,
28:20
SPEAKER_03: dream job,
28:20
SPEAKER_03: amazing salary,
28:22
SPEAKER_03: title,
28:23
SPEAKER_03: maybe,
28:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
28:23
SPEAKER_02: whatever it is.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: Sexy.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: And that's, yeah, super sexy.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: And I mean,
28:27
SPEAKER_03: we all do like,
28:29
SPEAKER_03: listen,
28:29
SPEAKER_03: when I first got online,
28:30
SPEAKER_03: I would swipe right on like the hot guy with the,
28:33
you could tell he was like super successful and he was six foot
28:37
one or whatever,
28:37
SPEAKER_03: all those things.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: And they literally,
28:39
SPEAKER_03: the rest of humanity is also swiping right on,
28:42
SPEAKER_03: by the way,
28:43
SPEAKER_03: just to preface it with that.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: But then even if, even if we did end up meeting for some reason,
28:50
I mean,
28:50
I was like one of like probably hundreds of women that he was
28:54
probably had access to.
28:56
And it's like,
28:57
it's just interesting that we still,
28:59
you want that shiny,
29:01
sexy.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: And what I tell my clients is the problem with that shiny,
29:06
SPEAKER_03: sexy person,
29:07
SPEAKER_03: not just that it's all of New York City wants to date them,
29:10
but also you're going to give them more leeway than you would
29:15
another person.
29:17
SPEAKER_03: It's amazing how much you,
29:19
SPEAKER_03: all of your boundaries that you're so rigid on,
29:22
SPEAKER_03: if they're hot,
29:25
SPEAKER_03: you let a lot of those go.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: It's because you have this fantasy.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: He's pretty rude and doesn't make me feel like a good person.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:33
Like I kind of feel like shit every time I go home after we,
29:36
but he's hot.
29:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, I see that happen a lot too.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: So it really is something that's,
29:44
you have to really check in with yourself on something like
29:46
that as you would with
29:48
SPEAKER_03: a job.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: How does this actually really make me feel?
29:50
Do I go home feeling insecure and shitty about myself and
29:53
wondering what I'm going
29:54
SPEAKER_03: to hear from him next?
29:55
Or do I go home feeling,
29:56
wow,
29:57
that was such a nice evening and I'm going to sleep soundly.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: How do you sleep?
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there is a measure.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, right.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So going back to sort of the predating aspect of this,
30:12
SPEAKER_00: for so many people who are beginning this journey later in life,
30:16
SPEAKER_00: swipe right is a foreign language.
30:18
I met my husband,
30:19
you met your first husband well before dating apps existed.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess it was match.com.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it's like swipe right, right, left, what?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: You're a stranger in a strange land.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: How do you help people feel more comfortable,
30:34
SPEAKER_00: more confident embracing these modern forms of connection?
30:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
30:41
SPEAKER_03: the technology is definitely a barrier,
30:43
SPEAKER_03: especially like the older my clients get,
30:46
SPEAKER_03: the more kind of
30:48
SPEAKER_03: flustered they feel with it.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: Or maybe they don't have a job where they work with computers even.
30:52
So a lot of people really need a lot of handholding around just
30:54
the technology of it.
30:56
SPEAKER_03: So I get that.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: Technologically savvy is
30:59
SPEAKER_03: It can feel really overwhelming and just kind of,
31:03
SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
31:03
I feel like it would be something that I would put off if I
31:06
didn't feel like I'd be
31:07
SPEAKER_03: able to even manage that part of it.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: So I really have to kind of hold their hand through.
31:12
We even have a video tutorial that we just created so we can
31:16
just send it to people
31:16
SPEAKER_03: in case they're having a hard time,
31:18
SPEAKER_03: like with the technology aspects.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: But that is challenging.
31:22
But that's part of why I do what I do because I walk them
31:26
through every step of
31:27
SPEAKER_03: like,
31:27
SPEAKER_03: this is how you load a picture on there.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: This is how you use the app.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: This is how you swipe right.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: This is how you swipe left.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's a lot of just even the logistics explaining all of that.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people have never messaged or texted with a stranger.
31:42
You're texting with a stranger and that can be really
31:46
challenging in its own way,
31:47
SPEAKER_03: not just because maybe you feel nervous.
31:49
It's more that a lot of people don't know even how to have a
31:52
text exchange if it's
31:53
SPEAKER_03: not someone they know well,
31:54
SPEAKER_03: or it's not their kid or their mom or their best friend.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: What's weird?
31:58
SPEAKER_00: What's too much, too little?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I don't know how to text in my mom friend group.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: I like way overthink it and just don't say anything.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, I do that too.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: I can't even imagine if I were dating.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: No, I do that too.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: It's funny.
32:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously if it's close, close friends, it's fine.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: But if it's like a more extended group of people, I do the same thing.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: I don't respond.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad it's not just me.
32:21
I think of something funny and I want to,
32:23
I type it in and I'm like,
32:24
Oh no,
32:24
no,
32:25
no.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: What if no one gets it?
32:26
SPEAKER_03: That's going to be, yeah.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: When you're dating,
32:30
SPEAKER_03: you're like,
32:31
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
32:31
SPEAKER_03: it's,
32:32
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
32:32
SPEAKER_03: it can be,
32:33
SPEAKER_03: it can be tricky,
32:34
SPEAKER_03: but that's why I really coach around.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
32:37
You message a little bit,
32:38
like not much,
32:39
and then you get on a phone call and see how that goes.
32:42
Or you try to make it an in-person date in a public place,
32:46
you know,
32:46
all of those things.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: But
32:47
SPEAKER_03: Just really not relying on the app.
32:49
SPEAKER_03: Like the app is not to get to know someone.
32:51
The app is to find the person you meet them and then you have
32:55
to meet in real life
32:56
SPEAKER_03: because you can't get to know somebody over texting.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: It's just impossible.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: I experienced and a lot of people I work with have experienced it.
33:04
You message and message and message over like the course of a
33:08
couple of weeks
33:09
because maybe you can't get together right away and you create
33:12
a fantasy version of
33:13
SPEAKER_03: this person and
33:14
SPEAKER_03: And they're never going to live up to that fantasy version.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: And it happened to me where I was messaging with someone.
33:21
SPEAKER_03: He had been traveling.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: So he wasn't in.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: He was going to be in New York in a few weeks.
33:25
SPEAKER_03: So we just kept texting and he finally got back to New York and we met.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: And he was nothing like I imagined.
33:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like I was like such an interesting point.
33:35
SPEAKER_03: Did you have somebody else text for you?
33:39
SPEAKER_03: He was not at all.
33:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
33:40
SPEAKER_03: he was very cold and aloof and just,
33:44
SPEAKER_03: and in his texting,
33:45
SPEAKER_03: he was warm and seemed so caring and all of that.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: And in person, he was very, yeah, not that at all.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: So I learned my lesson.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: And these are the things that you learn as you go along.
33:58
And that's why it's like,
33:59
it's nice when you have a coach who can tell you,
34:01
okay,
34:02
don't do this.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: Don't do that.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: Don't do this.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: Cause I wasted three weeks of my life texting with this person.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: I think back to those types of things.
34:11
And it's like,
34:12
if someone had just told me that,
34:13
yeah,
34:14
that would have been helpful.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think we all need that in times of transition.
34:19
We need people who have been there,
34:21
people who have seen what works and what doesn't.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: And everybody's journey is going to be different.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: But why should we start from zero?
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: I always think of like the analogy of learning to play piano.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Like there are very few people who taught themselves how to play piano.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Just because they were like, what sounds?
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Sound good together.
34:41
We've all learned from other people because there are keys that
34:46
have meaning and
34:47
SPEAKER_00: they do different things.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: So somebody teaches you what they're supposed to do.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: And then,
34:53
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
34:53
SPEAKER_00: plenty of people have found themselves virtuosos,
34:55
SPEAKER_00: but you have somebody teach you how to play the freaking piano first.
34:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: And also I back to your work analogy, too.
35:02
SPEAKER_03: I compare it to that.
35:03
SPEAKER_03: It's like so many people hire a business coach.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: Of course, like, why wouldn't I hire a business coach?
35:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, in the same the same amount of effort should go in.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: If you really want to meet someone,
35:13
the same amount of effort should go into dating as it would to
35:16
look for a job,
35:17
because both of those are your most important aspects of your
35:20
life as far as like
35:21
SPEAKER_03: where you're spending the most of your time.
35:23
So I think the amount of energy you put into finding a new job,
35:27
you should put into dating.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: And then when you need a break, you take a break.
35:31
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, just that it should be you're putting your all in.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: Because I also that's another really common mistake is that people,
35:38
SPEAKER_03: especially if you've been doing it for a while,
35:40
SPEAKER_03: you kind of have to do it.
35:41
You're like,
35:42
oh,
35:42
yeah,
35:42
I'm on the apps,
35:43
but they check it like once a month just for fun.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: You're bored.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: You can't do it that way.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: You really can't.
35:50
You have to be consistent for a month or two and then take a
35:53
break if you need to
35:54
SPEAKER_03: for a couple of months or a week.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: But it's important to be consistently on there.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:59
And just like,
36:00
frankly,
36:01
going back to the piano analogy,
36:03
you'd probably give up.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise,
36:06
SPEAKER_00: because there's too much rejection,
36:09
SPEAKER_00: too much uncertainty,
36:10
SPEAKER_00: too much cognitive load,
36:11
SPEAKER_00: frankly,
36:12
SPEAKER_00: to figure all of that out on your own.
36:14
And it multiplies the level of energy required and radically
36:20
diminishes the rewards.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: And so we don't do it.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's why we need coaches for all sorts of things.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: But I think especially in this domain, it makes so much sense.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So with that,
36:30
SPEAKER_00: and we may have just answered the question,
36:32
what's the most important thing you want midlife women to know
36:35
about finding love
36:36
SPEAKER_00: in the second half?
36:38
SPEAKER_03: First of all, it is not too late.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: I hear this so many times.
36:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I hear this from a woman who's 40, 45, 50, 60.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: Everybody thinks, oh, I waited too long.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: It's too late.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: It is not too late.
36:52
SPEAKER_03: I have clients who have met the love of their life in their late 70s.
36:56
I had an 84-year-old woman meet the love of her life and they
37:01
got married.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: So it's not too late.
37:04
SPEAKER_03: And there are people out there for you.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, really, truly, I really believe that.
37:09
And I think that if you go into it with the right mindset,
37:12
curiosity is so important.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: Open mindedness,
37:17
SPEAKER_03: giving it the four date minimum,
37:19
SPEAKER_03: not looking for the flashy guy,
37:20
SPEAKER_03: we call it date vanilla,
37:21
SPEAKER_03: which doesn't mean date boring.
37:23
SPEAKER_03: It just means look for the profiles that are
37:27
that give you information and aren't trying to be like flashy
37:30
or funny or,
37:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
37:31
SPEAKER_03: if they're witty,
37:32
SPEAKER_03: great,
37:32
SPEAKER_03: but like if they're trying too hard,
37:34
SPEAKER_03: you can tell.
37:36
So just the people that are really giving you true information
37:38
about themselves,
37:39
SPEAKER_03: not giving you the list of what they want in a person.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: That's another, I see that a lot in men.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm looking for a woman who's da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm hiring.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Their laundry list.
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm hiring.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: These are the qualities you need, qualifications.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: It's I mean, it's crazy.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: You see that a lot.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: It's like design,
38:04
SPEAKER_03: design a woman or something,
38:05
SPEAKER_03: you know,
38:05
SPEAKER_03: but no,
38:06
SPEAKER_03: but the people are really sharing genuine information about themselves.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: Those are the people that you want to swipe right on.
38:13
Those are the people you want to continue messaging with and
38:16
see where it goes.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: And as long as they're showing up and being consistent,
38:19
SPEAKER_03: giving that a chance and not just going for the flashy,
38:23
SPEAKER_03: flashy hot guys.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: And again,
38:26
SPEAKER_03: not saying don't go for someone you're not attracted to,
38:29
SPEAKER_03: just they don't have to be flashy and the uber guy.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: If they seem uber successful and sexy and flashy,
38:40
you have to know that they know that they're presenting
38:42
themselves that way.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: And then, you know what I mean?
38:45
SPEAKER_03: And then there's like something behind that.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:48
So yeah,
38:48
looking for the vanilla profiles and four date minimum and
38:53
consistency.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: Those are like all key.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: But curiosity, honestly, if I could say one word.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: And I loved that you said that at the very beginning,
39:01
SPEAKER_03: curiosity is that can change everything for you.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And that seems so much at the root of everything you're doing.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about you a little more.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: What's the next brave thing you want to do?
39:14
SPEAKER_03: Gosh, well, I just started my own podcast a few months ago.
39:18
SPEAKER_03: Tell everybody the name of it.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: The Dating Lab.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: So good.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: And it's on all the things.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: But that's been a fun new journey.
39:27
When you're running your own business,
39:28
there's so many new things you have to learn.
39:30
SPEAKER_03: You have to learn marketing.
39:31
SPEAKER_03: You have to be a manager.
39:32
SPEAKER_03: There's so many different hats you wear.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about self-care.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: You put a lot into your clients and their success.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: and to building a business and to running a podcast and to maintaining a
39:45
SPEAKER_00: relationship with your loved ones.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: How do you hold space for you?
39:50
SPEAKER_03: Well, definitely yoga and Pilates.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: And then I love to take naps.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm a napper.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:56
Yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: It's funny, I used to... Normalize the nap.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: Normalize the nap, right?
40:02
SPEAKER_03: When I was in my previous marriage, napping was like taboo.
40:07
My ex thought that was like,
40:09
you were lazy,
40:10
you were not getting a nap done,
40:11
all those things.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: So I got very anti-nap.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: And then with Yoav, he is like,
40:17
SPEAKER_03: He is a power napper.
40:18
SPEAKER_03: He loves to nap.
40:19
SPEAKER_03: And so I realized like,
40:20
SPEAKER_03: oh,
40:20
you can be really active and do your things and get shit done
40:25
and then like sleep
40:26
SPEAKER_03: for an hour and that's okay.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: So I've become a napper and it's been really nice.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: So I would say those are my...
40:34
SPEAKER_00: Well,
40:34
SPEAKER_00: if you were to talk to any neuroscientist about brain health,
40:38
SPEAKER_00: they would tell you napping is awesome.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Sleeping half the day, not so helpful, but a good nap.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Like every company should have a nap pod.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: I know.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
40:51
SPEAKER_03: I think it's so helpful.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: We need resets.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: So as uplifters, we love to uplift other uplifters.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: How can we support you and the work that you're doing?
41:02
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: Well,
41:03
you can find me on my website at stylemyprofilenyc.com and then
41:08
also on Instagram
41:09
SPEAKER_03: at stylemyprofilenyc.
41:11
SPEAKER_03: And then I'm also on TikTok, which is new for me, stylemyprofile also.
41:16
And yeah,
41:17
just follow and hopefully like what I'm saying and yeah,
41:21
like it.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: That would be helpful.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: And then share this with the people who are looking for love.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:30
And who are maybe feeling a little bit frustrated and...
41:33
And that's something I want to say too.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Exhausted by the process.
41:37
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
41:37
SPEAKER_03: And I want to validate that because I think it's so important.
41:40
SPEAKER_03: You are not alone in feeling like dating sucks.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: Most people do.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: And especially,
41:46
SPEAKER_03: honestly,
41:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm not just saying this,
41:47
like if you're not working with someone or have a good friend
41:50
that can kind of
41:51
SPEAKER_03: guide you,
41:52
SPEAKER_03: it really,
41:53
SPEAKER_03: it can be lonely and it is frustrating and it can feel hopeless,
41:57
SPEAKER_03: but I really do.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: I've
41:59
SPEAKER_03: I see people meeting there all the time still.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: So don't give up.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: It was so nice to see you, Alyssa.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see you again in person on March 13th.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: And so excited for you to meet all of our crew.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I know, same.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: If you're listening and you don't have your tickets,
42:15
Come join me and Alyssa and so many other amazing uplifters in
42:19
this super intimate,
42:20
SPEAKER_00: beautiful room where we're going to talk about,
42:23
SPEAKER_00: yes,
42:23
SPEAKER_00: what's working,
42:24
SPEAKER_00: but also what's hard.
42:26
And we're going to ask each other for support and ideas and
42:30
encouragement and lift
42:31
SPEAKER_00: each other up so that we can all rise higher together.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Have a great day, everybody.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: Big love.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
42:45
please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join
42:50
us in conversation
42:52
SPEAKER_00: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Head over to Spotify,
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Apple Podcast,
42:58
SPEAKER_00: or wherever you get your podcast and like,
43:01
SPEAKER_00: follow,
43:02
SPEAKER_00: and rate our show.
43:03
It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
43:07
ensure you never miss
43:09
SPEAKER_00: one of these beautiful stories.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Big love.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Painted water, sunshine, with rosemary and tongue.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Dwell in the perplexing, though you find it vexing.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Toss a star and hover.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: Be your own best lover.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Relish in a new prime.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Land a tree in springtime.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Dance with idle hindsight.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Bring the sun to twilight.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: lift you up lift you up lift you up
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I cried.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Right?
44:26
SPEAKER_01: In the pre-chorus, right?
44:27
SPEAKER_01: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Mommy, stop crying.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: You're disturbing the peace.