Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / CREEPY ITEMS SEIZED FROM KOHBERGER'S HOME AND CAR

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CREEPY ITEMS SEIZED FROM KOHBERGER'S HOME AND CAR · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours of
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Speaker 1: bombshell in the Brian Coburger case. We are now learning
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Speaker 1: all the details about search warrants executed in the case
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Speaker 1: of four slain students. I mean, see Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
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Speaker 1: Fox Station and Serious XM one eleven. These items have
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Speaker 1: been under sealed for sixty days, but now we are
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Speaker 1: getting a look at what police have been sitting on
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Speaker 1: this entire time, so much they couldn't tell us, but
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Speaker 1: now we know. Take a listen to our friends at WNEP.
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Speaker 1: Those search warrants were placed under a sixty days seal
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Speaker 1: by a judge in Monroe County. Those sixty days are
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Speaker 1: now up, and two new search warrants were released today
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Speaker 1: detailing exactly what investigators took from Coburger's parents' home in
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Speaker 1: Chestnut Hill Township and from his Hyundai Elantra. According to
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Speaker 1: court paperwork, more than sixty items were seized from the
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Speaker 1: home in the Poconos. Among the items were a knife, gun,
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Speaker 1: a cell phone, black gloves, and a mask. Officers also
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Speaker 1: took clothing, shoes, and personal notes. Guys, we are understanding
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Speaker 1: that Pennsylvania police have released a full list regarding an
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Speaker 1: unsealed warrant, including items taken from a pre dawn raid.
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Speaker 1: Do you guys remember that? Because I sure do. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut three. Our friends at WPVI
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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Courts unsealed the warrants today, showing the first glimpses
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Speaker 1: of what investigators took from Brian Coburger's Pocono area home
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Speaker 1: during the search on December twenty ninth. According to the
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Speaker 1: search warrant receipt, the items seized were medical style gloves, clothing,
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Speaker 1: a pair of black and white size thirteen Nike shoes,
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Speaker 1: and also a swab of Coburger's DNA. The search warrant itself,
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Speaker 1: all thirty one pages, is extensive and approved this long
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Speaker 1: list of items to be seized, including everything from blood
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Speaker 1: and bodily fluids to data on smart devices, to his
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Speaker 1: car and shoes since a footprint was found at the scene, knives,
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Speaker 1: a gun, ammunition, books, a laptop, a cell phone, a
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Speaker 1: quote note from Brian to Dad, and so much more.
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Speaker 1: Taken from the home mean that pre dawn raid with
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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what
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Speaker 1: we know right now. But first to Cheryl McCollum, founder
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Speaker 1: and director of the Cold Case Research Institute and crime
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Speaker 1: scene expert. She's a star of a new hit podcast,
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Speaker 1: Zone seven. Cheryl, what have you learned from the disclosure
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Speaker 1: of the search warrant return on coburger? Well, they got
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Speaker 1: a flashlight, They've got some chemical resistant gloves. They took
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Speaker 1: things that like a book where he underlines some things
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Speaker 1: on page one eighteen. But of course I'm dying to
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Speaker 1: know what that book is and what he underlines. They
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Speaker 1: also got things from his vehicle, specifically the gas pedal
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Speaker 1: and the break, the floormats, the head rest, the seatbelt decision.
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Speaker 1: I think again, they are placing victim centered items at
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Speaker 1: his parents home, in his vehicle, and at his apartment.
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Speaker 1: So if you look at the things that they took,
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Speaker 1: it appears to me that those search warrants were very
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Speaker 1: targeted and very directed. Police also seems a shovel from
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Speaker 1: the accused killers white Hyundai Elantra, ziplock bags, hiking boots,
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Speaker 1: and a wrench. We know they also this is Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 1: Police removed car seats, a door panel, and the brake
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Speaker 1: and gas pedals from the vehicle for testing too, and
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Speaker 1: obviously to ye. Chris mcdonnah joining me from the interview
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Speaker 1: room on YouTube. Former homicide detective has handled well over
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Speaker 1: three hundred homicides. Clearly, they believe that the night of
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Speaker 1: the murders, when Coburger allegedly left the murder scene, which
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Speaker 1: is extremely bloody, he had blood on his tennis shoes,
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Speaker 1: and when he touched the brake or the gas pedal,
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Speaker 1: he left behind the victim's blood DNA. That's gotta be
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Speaker 1: what they're doing. Chris mcdonna, absolutely natcy, and so they're
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Speaker 1: trying to connect that vehicle obviously to Brian and then
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Speaker 1: back to the crimechene. And the other interesting thing they
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Speaker 1: took out of the car is the sheetbelt, and you
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Speaker 1: know they're obviously they're looking for any type of blood
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Speaker 1: forensics evidence withinside of that car. They also grabbed a vacuum,
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Speaker 1: a Craftsman HVAC in the garage at the residence, which
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Speaker 1: I'm assuming he's going to correlate back to the surveillance
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Speaker 1: they had him under while he was cleaning the vehicle.
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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting with me is Dale Carson, high
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Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, but also a former fed
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Speaker 1: with the FBI. Dale Carson, it's great to have the
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Speaker 1: three of you on. You know where I am right now.
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Speaker 1: I'm sitting right outside the Colleton County Courthouse where we've
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Speaker 1: been listening to closing arguments in the Alex Murdi case.
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Speaker 1: And I heard the sled. South Carolina Law Enforcement Division
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Speaker 1: reamed a new rear end because listen to this, Dale.
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Speaker 1: They seized a shirt Murdog was wearing. They looked at
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Speaker 1: it and they thought we'd better test it for blood.
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Speaker 1: They thought there were possibly microscopic spots of blood spatter. Well,
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Speaker 1: it turned out it was a blood spatter. And today
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Speaker 1: inclosing arguments, the defense had a field day arguing that
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Speaker 1: the state had somehow hidden evidence by not producing the shirt.
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Speaker 1: But it didn't have any blood on it, it had
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Speaker 1: no evidentiary value. The point I'm getting at Del Carson
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Speaker 1: is we here in this case, the Coburger case, cops
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Speaker 1: took the Craftsman HVAC. They took a note from Brian
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Speaker 1: to Dad, they took a wrench, They took all sorts
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Speaker 1: of items. But if they didn't take them, they would
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Speaker 1: be damned. And if they do take them and they
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Speaker 1: are not of evidentiary or probitive value. They will also
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Speaker 1: be damned. I mean, there's really no way out for
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Speaker 1: law enforcement. Well, the list I looked at Nancy wish
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Speaker 1: By an old LEFTBI agent and it's handwritten. There's no
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Speaker 1: technology involved in that. That means somebody sat down, as
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Speaker 1: should happen in a good crime scene investigation, logged everything,
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Speaker 1: and is responsible for everything. Quite frankly, if you get
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Speaker 1: the opportunity to conduct a search for a post murders home,
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Speaker 1: you want to get everything you can possibly pick up,
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Speaker 1: which is obviously one of the critical alleged failings of SLED.
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Speaker 1: But here we've got the vacuum cleaner, we've got stuff
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Speaker 1: from the car, We've got a hand done that may
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Speaker 1: be connected to an unsolved homicide. We've got stubble that
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Speaker 1: have been used to bury people in his home area
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Speaker 1: instead of way out in Idaho. So there's a whole
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Speaker 1: lot more that the investigators are going to be able
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Speaker 1: to identify and determine based on what they seized during
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Speaker 1: these searches. Well, I agree with all that, but del Carson,
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Speaker 1: you did a really have you had professional dance classes?
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Speaker 1: Because you just take a right out of my question.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. The cops are damned if they do, and
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Speaker 1: they're damned if they don't. If they get evidence that
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Speaker 1: turns out not to be probitive, they get reamed out
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Speaker 1: a trial. If they don't get the evidence, they are skewared.
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Speaker 1: So better air on the side of caution and take
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Speaker 1: everything that could remotely be involved in the case and
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Speaker 1: then sort it out later. Always, Nathy, you and I
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Speaker 1: have both been standing at a crime scene where we
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Speaker 1: decided we're going to take something, not because we know
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Speaker 1: how it relates to this crime, but we might know
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Speaker 1: how it relates later. If something is odd, if something
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Speaker 1: doesn't belong or doesn't fit in a scene, I'm taking it.
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Speaker 1: If there's something that looks like this could be a
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Speaker 1: note This book with some underlying words could mean something later.
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Speaker 1: You know, the seatbelt may have DNA on it. I'm
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Speaker 1: taking everything. Hey, you know you just reminded me of
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Speaker 1: he just Cheryl reminded me of Brian Laundry and his idealistic,
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Speaker 1: self absorbed musings and his notebook after he murdered Gabby Petita,
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Speaker 1: and that actually revealed a lot. And at the time
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Speaker 1: you could hear Nay say or say oh, you took
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Speaker 1: his private notebook that was personal. It was a confession
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Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. So people are going to argue about
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Speaker 1: the note from Brian to dad, Brian Coburger to his father,
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Speaker 1: But we don't know what that note says, and we
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Speaker 1: don't know what could be read into that note. So
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Speaker 1: I agree with you, Cheryl went in doubt. You have
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Speaker 1: to seize everything sorted out later and then just take
9:32
Speaker 1: the hits in the courtroom. Guys, for those people that
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Speaker 1: are just kind writing samples that it creates, there are
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Speaker 1: all sorts of reasons to have even a modest like
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Speaker 1: that to make a determination later that it's a really
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Speaker 1: good thought. Dale Carson, Now, I don't know of any
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Speaker 1: note that is connected to this case, but we have
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Speaker 1: very little understanding of all the evidence, the treasure trope
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Speaker 1: of evidence that the state has managed to marshal to
10:00
Speaker 1: this point. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for those of
10:17
Speaker 1: you who just joining us in the last hours. A
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Speaker 1: search want and more importantly it's return. A search want
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Speaker 1: is an affidavit that is normally sworn to under oath
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Speaker 1: in front of a judge or magistrate by a cop,
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Speaker 1: a detective, an undercover. It could be a number of
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Speaker 1: people within law enforcement that tells a judge why that
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Speaker 1: cop believes a certain car, warehouse, home trunk container should
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Speaker 1: be searched. The judge either agrees or disagrees. The cop
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Speaker 1: has to put forth PC probable cause that the search
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Speaker 1: is reasonable, a reasonable let's just say, invasion, and to
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Speaker 1: the target's Fourth Amendment right to privacy. After you do
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Speaker 1: the search, After the search is conducted, someone on the
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Speaker 1: investigative team will fill like a search return. In other words,
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Speaker 1: what if anything was seized and it must be meticulously listed.
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Speaker 1: In the last hours, we get a return on a
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Speaker 1: pre dawn raid on the Brian Coburger family home in
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Speaker 1: the Poconos. The return three knives, a shovel, a handgun,
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Speaker 1: a black ski mask among the evidence taken from Coburger's
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Speaker 1: parents home and from his white Hyundai his Elantra. Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: what more do we know, Nancy? We also have evidence
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Speaker 1: of a leafy green substance. They of course, they would
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Speaker 1: make you think marijuana. They took hiking boots, they took
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Speaker 1: tire irons, they took goggles, they took all kinds of
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Speaker 1: things that looks like he would be wearing something, you know,
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Speaker 1: as he's disposing of evidence. They even took band aids.
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Speaker 1: So again, if he was harmed in any way and
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Speaker 1: was bleeding less, say one of the victims scrapped him
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Speaker 1: as they were fighting back, because we knew they had
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Speaker 1: defensive wounds and he maybe took care of, you know,
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Speaker 1: his injuries in some way. They even took the room
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Speaker 1: key from the comfort end. They've got his car registration,
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Speaker 1: of course, they've got the note and all that sort
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Speaker 1: of thing. They took a phone charger, so they to me,
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Speaker 1: the list of items suggest again that they are painting
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Speaker 1: a picture. They know exactly what he did in the
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Speaker 1: order that he did it, and they're going to be
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Speaker 1: able to lay this evidence out at trial for the
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Speaker 1: jury to see. These are maps. You and I talked
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Speaker 1: about maps from day one, and I try to tell
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Speaker 1: everybody this is a professional stalker. He will not just
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Speaker 1: have information on his phone. He will have information in
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Speaker 1: notebooks and up on the and maps. Is one of
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Speaker 1: the things that I keyed in on because this guy
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Speaker 1: like just like somebody planning a wedding. You have all
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Speaker 1: the stuff in a diary, You've got things on the calendar,
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Speaker 1: you've got magazines you're saving. He did the same type
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Speaker 1: of thing. He could tell you all about these young people.
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Speaker 1: He not only stalked them twelve times before the murder,
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Speaker 1: but he went back to the scene of the crime afterwards. Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: we also want his search history on the Internet and
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Speaker 1: on his phone. Amen. Absolutely, On Cheryl, you mentioned a
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Speaker 1: key to a hotel room. Explained, well, that's gonna again
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Speaker 1: be something that they're going to be able to show
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Speaker 1: the jury where he was, why he was there, and
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Speaker 1: why it's critical that he kept that key. They're gonna
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Speaker 1: show all of that and something else, Nancy, that everybody
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Speaker 1: needs to understand. If you charge your phone inside your car,
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Speaker 1: your car has a black box, and when you plug
13:54
Speaker 1: that charger straight into your car, everything on your cell
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Speaker 1: phone go to that car's black box. So even if
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Speaker 1: he were to throw that phone in the Atlantic Ocean,
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Speaker 1: we would be able to get the information straight off
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Speaker 1: the phone. Hey, guys, take a listen to our cut one.
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Speaker 1: This is Jillian Melee at wp v I. A lot
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Speaker 1: of new information came down this morning when it comes
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Speaker 1: to the murder of those four University of Idaho students.
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Speaker 1: All of this as though search warrants were unsealed for
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Speaker 1: both Brian Koperger's white honde a Landra and his parents
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Speaker 1: home in all Brightsville. A knife, a glock twenty two
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Speaker 1: forty caliber handgun with three empty magazines, a pocket knife,
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Speaker 1: black face, masks and gloves, numerous articles of dark clothing
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Speaker 1: and criminology books are among a laundry list of items
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Speaker 1: detective seas from the Pocono area home on Lambstone Drive.
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Speaker 1: That's not all I want to hear the rest, Jack,
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Speaker 1: if you could play our cut too. Also from w
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Speaker 1: p VII, the affidavit released in late December described what
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Speaker 1: police discovered when they entered the Idaho home after the murders.
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Speaker 1: A tan leather knife sheath was found laying on the
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Speaker 1: bed next to two of the victims. The surviving roommate
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Speaker 1: described seeing a figure dressed in all black clothing and
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Speaker 1: a mask, adding that they were athletically built with bushy eyebrows. Now,
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Speaker 1: what we also learned today from those newly unsealed documents
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Speaker 1: is that in that white junde Elan Trump detectives found
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Speaker 1: a number of things, some of which include gloves, boots,
15:20
Speaker 1: and a shovel. They also seized numerous parts of the
15:23
Speaker 1: vehicle itself, including the brake, pedal, gas pedal, and more. Okay,
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Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, Dale Carson, and Chris mcdonnah with me analyzing
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Speaker 1: this return that we have just gotten our mits on.
15:36
Speaker 1: I'm looking directly at the police return and if you
15:39
Speaker 1: would look at number twenty one of the items they
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Speaker 1: retrieved new balanced shoes, what do you make of that,
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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh, Well, of course they're looking for any kind
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Speaker 1: of connection to the crown scene. If there's a blood
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Speaker 1: track that is individually identifiable, meaning there's a cut in
15:59
Speaker 1: one of the freads, it's identical to that too, then
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Speaker 1: they've got a direct connection to the crime scene. Was
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Speaker 1: that Dale or Chris? That was Dale? But the great
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Speaker 1: answer they're looking they're looking for that diamond pattern Nancy
16:12
Speaker 1: out in front of the surviving victim's store. And if
16:17
Speaker 1: we go down all sort of item forty four that
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Speaker 1: they collected a motherboard. They hit up a motherboard, which is,
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Speaker 1: you know, for obvious reason to remember his under undergraduate
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Speaker 1: studies is you know, technology. But I find number forty
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Speaker 1: five very interesting Washington State University paperwork just out of curiosity.
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Speaker 1: What's everybody think. I think they're trying to establish a
16:44
Speaker 1: timeline by looking at that paperwork as when he could
16:47
Speaker 1: have had his earliest contact, potentially our contact point with
16:51
Speaker 1: these victims. You know that's because the actual printers today
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Speaker 1: store that data, so you could find out specific typically
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Speaker 1: when it erupted out of the computer. Okay, that's really smart.
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Speaker 1: I didn't realize. I guess I knew, but I hadn't
17:07
Speaker 1: taken into account that a printer maintains the information that
17:14
Speaker 1: it printed. Is that what you're saying. Yeah, so the
17:17
Speaker 1: Russians used to take our printers and take them home
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Speaker 1: and download all the data off of our printers. We
17:23
Speaker 1: had to be very careful with that, that' said. Let's
17:25
Speaker 1: talk about world politics later. I want to get back
17:28
Speaker 1: to this return when you mentioned earlier, I think it
17:32
Speaker 1: was Chris, or it may have been del Carson. Item
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Speaker 1: forty four, the motherboard. Why do you find that specifically
17:41
Speaker 1: to be of interest? I found that interesting, Nancy, because
17:46
Speaker 1: of a couple of things. One, if there is still
17:49
Speaker 1: stored data on that and he would have been aware
17:52
Speaker 1: of that post homicide, then of course he would have
17:55
Speaker 1: removed that motherboard out of you know, maybe a hard
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Speaker 1: drive and or type of you know, some type of
18:03
Speaker 1: frame inside of his apartment, maybe right in the in
18:06
Speaker 1: the computers that they removed. So he may have taken
18:09
Speaker 1: that because and left it in his car. So it
18:13
Speaker 1: may have come from the apartment in Washington or in
18:18
Speaker 1: the university and ended up in his car in Pennsylvania.
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Speaker 1: The fact that it's in there tells us they are
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Speaker 1: looking for a digital footprint that he may have been
18:31
Speaker 1: trying to conceal. Christ For people that don't know what
18:33
Speaker 1: that is, if they're not a computer geek, they may
18:36
Speaker 1: not know what is a motherboard? Yeah, well, a motherboard
18:40
Speaker 1: is it holds you know, all the pieces the running
18:45
Speaker 1: parts of the computer. Ie, it's the brains of the computer,
18:50
Speaker 1: the non bott memory. Out of this yip exactly, Cheryl mccollin,
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Speaker 1: did you did you say number fifty seven Taylor cutlery
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Speaker 1: knife with sheaths. I'm clothes in laundry baskets. They're looking
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Speaker 1: for DNA, They're looking for blood that may still be
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Speaker 1: on the clothing even though it may have been washed.
19:17
Speaker 1: I mean practically every line is something significant, Every single
19:22
Speaker 1: item is significant because again, you're showing the jury potential
19:27
Speaker 1: jury later on that he's got a propensity for these
19:30
Speaker 1: types of knives that are in leather sheets. That's unusual.
19:34
Speaker 1: You're also showing the item of clothing that the victim describes.
19:40
Speaker 1: You've got it. And again going back to the shoes. Yes,
19:44
Speaker 1: they're looking for the pattern on the bottom obviously, but
19:47
Speaker 1: they're also looking for when he changed clothes and change shoes.
19:52
Speaker 1: The news shoes could also have blood on them from
19:55
Speaker 1: the floorboard and the brake pedal and the gas pedal
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Speaker 1: they're painting a picture of. It's quite obvious what they're
20:03
Speaker 1: looking for. Cheryl, that is some good thinking. Even if
20:06
Speaker 1: he changed shoes, then nieze shoes could have picked up
20:09
Speaker 1: those blood particles left transferred from the old shoes onto
20:14
Speaker 1: the gas pedal and the brake pedal. Guys, there's more.
20:18
Speaker 1: Take a list to our cut number six our friends
20:20
Speaker 1: at NBC. In a previous search of Coleburger's apartment in
20:23
Speaker 1: Washington State, investigators also gathered possible hair strands, chemical resistant gloves,
20:29
Speaker 1: items that had red and brown stains, and a computer tower.
20:32
Speaker 1: In December, Colburger had driven home with his father to
20:35
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania from Washington State University, where he was pursuing his
20:38
Speaker 1: PhD in criminal justice. On that trip, the pair were
20:41
Speaker 1: pulled over twice in Indiana weeks before the arrest. Today,
20:46
Speaker 1: they were driving a white hounday a Lantra, the same
20:48
Speaker 1: type of car police say was captured on surveillance video
20:51
Speaker 1: near the scene of the murders, Coburger's school, less than
20:54
Speaker 1: ten miles from the University of Idaho. I also find
20:57
Speaker 1: interesting that police seize a black mask, which is not
21:02
Speaker 1: dissimilar to the black ski mask described by the surviving
21:07
Speaker 1: roommate who saw the killer leaving wearing a mask. Now,
21:13
Speaker 1: I'm curious a black mask, if it's a ski mask,
21:19
Speaker 1: would it have covered up? I'm just trying to figure out.
21:23
Speaker 1: Did she say he had bushey eyebrows, But the eyebrows
21:27
Speaker 1: would have shone through a ski mask? Right, everybody here
21:32
Speaker 1: in the studio, that's basically you, Sydney is shaking. No, no, no,
21:36
Speaker 1: But a ski mask has eye openings. Does anybody else agree?
21:40
Speaker 1: I know you're listening. Don't ski mask have yes? Everybody
21:44
Speaker 1: but you, Sydney. So she you know, Cheryl, I had
21:49
Speaker 1: in my mind when she said a mask, I thought
21:53
Speaker 1: she meant a COVID mask. That was my first thought.
21:58
Speaker 1: But I'm seeing here they seized a black ski mask, well,
22:04
Speaker 1: not dissimilar to the black ski masks described by the roommate.
22:07
Speaker 1: How did you take it, Cheryl? What did you What
22:09
Speaker 1: type of mask did you think the killer was wearing.
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Speaker 1: I thought it was a mask like you would wear
22:13
Speaker 1: to rob a bank, so a ski mask. And what
22:16
Speaker 1: I'm getting now from the list that y'all are talking
22:19
Speaker 1: about the goggles. Would that have been something that he
22:22
Speaker 1: would have warned to stop the blood spatter from getting
22:26
Speaker 1: in his eyes? You know, you scare me sometimes, Cheryl McCollum,
22:29
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're on the right side of the law.
22:31
Speaker 1: Go ahead, dal there's no report that he used goggles,
22:35
Speaker 1: and certainly the girl who did seem at the sight
22:37
Speaker 1: of the killings didn't mention that. But of course again
22:42
Speaker 1: they took them. They're on the list, and I'm just
22:45
Speaker 1: saying that is unusual enough that now my injurance is
22:49
Speaker 1: piqued about those goggles. Yeah, okay, let me think about that.
22:52
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough. From what we know, what we've been told
22:57
Speaker 1: so far, all the intel we've gotten, do you believe
23:01
Speaker 1: the killer was wearing goggles? Protective goggles? I never picked
23:06
Speaker 1: that up. But they're seizing goggles here's so obviously think
23:09
Speaker 1: they think there's a chance. There's always a possibility, but
23:13
Speaker 1: it's probably improbable, Nancy. I mean, I think Cheryl Dale
23:17
Speaker 1: and I would all agree with you that this guy
23:20
Speaker 1: was so sophisticated. Remember we keep going back to how
23:24
Speaker 1: mechanical he was. And if you look at item number
23:26
Speaker 1: fifty seven for an example, I can't read what they
23:30
Speaker 1: I think it's says Taylor, and it says knife with
23:36
Speaker 1: leather sheath. So they are this search warrant tells us
23:40
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of things about, you know, what they're
23:44
Speaker 1: specifically going after. They have a sheath at a scene.
23:47
Speaker 1: So now they're trying to correlate is this a habit
23:50
Speaker 1: pattern of this guy? You know, to continue by knives
23:53
Speaker 1: with sheets. And then if we look at some of
23:55
Speaker 1: the knives that they collected, the Smith and Wesson knife
23:59
Speaker 1: for an example. I went and did a little research
24:02
Speaker 1: before the program today and they have fixed blade knives
24:06
Speaker 1: as well. And so I think what this is telling me,
24:11
Speaker 1: and I'd be curious to hear what Charondale think about it.
24:15
Speaker 1: Are they trying to correlate this guy's behavior in relationship
24:19
Speaker 1: to these knives as a whole. And if so, you know,
24:24
Speaker 1: does it differ from the type of sheath that was
24:27
Speaker 1: left at the crime scene, because that's going to be
24:30
Speaker 1: exactly what I was wondering. What if Chris mcdonnaugh the
24:34
Speaker 1: sheath that they are taking out of his Poconos, his
24:37
Speaker 1: parents Pocono home, or his car. We have a tailor.
24:40
Speaker 1: It looks like tay l o. R. Cutlery knife with
24:45
Speaker 1: leather sheath. What if it's the same type of sheath
24:51
Speaker 1: that was found in the murder Saint. I mean, that
24:57
Speaker 1: would be pretty damning in my mind. I mean, what's
25:00
Speaker 1: the likelihood that this guy has the same exact sheath
25:03
Speaker 1: a knife or the same knife. I mean, we never
25:06
Speaker 1: located the knife. We don't know that specifically what it is,
25:10
Speaker 1: so it could be the very same type of NiFe.
25:12
Speaker 1: This goes back and what I was saying before. You
25:15
Speaker 1: don't always know why it fits yet, but you take
25:17
Speaker 1: it anyway. This could very well be something that's got
25:20
Speaker 1: biological evidence from another victim. And that way, when they're
25:24
Speaker 1: asked in court, did you ever look for additional victim,
25:27
Speaker 1: they can say yes, we did. We tested other knives
25:31
Speaker 1: that could have been used in other homicide. You know,
25:33
Speaker 1: when you said you were interested about the flashlight, I
25:36
Speaker 1: am too. Was the flashlight that is this the flashlight
25:41
Speaker 1: that was used the Knight of the murders? And if so,
25:44
Speaker 1: is there any biological material still on it? I mean, Cheryl,
25:50
Speaker 1: you have to look at an item like a flashlight
25:53
Speaker 1: under a microscope to see if anything is in a
25:56
Speaker 1: groove or you know, the on off button. They could
26:00
Speaker 1: be there without him realizing it's still there. That's right.
26:03
Speaker 1: And even if he's wearing those gloves, Nancy, he would
26:06
Speaker 1: have had to put that flashlight somewhere else while he
26:10
Speaker 1: committed the murders. Once he was inside, and when he
26:13
Speaker 1: touched it again and moved it again. You're talking about
26:16
Speaker 1: the lock card principle times five. I mean, it's overwhelming,
26:21
Speaker 1: all the transferring that's going to be going on with
26:23
Speaker 1: all of this evidence, the blood, you know, sweat and
26:27
Speaker 1: different things that are going to be on not just
26:30
Speaker 1: the sheets, not just the sheets, not just the victims,
26:33
Speaker 1: not the perpetrator, not just his car, but everywhere you're
26:37
Speaker 1: gonna see evidence of those victims. Inside his apartment, you're
26:40
Speaker 1: gonna see evidence of those four victims inside his parents home.
26:44
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a standard that we all look for.
26:47
Speaker 1: Another thing on that list, it talks about fiber. A
26:51
Speaker 1: small fiber is on that list. That's the real key
26:55
Speaker 1: to me. They did that deep of a search when
26:59
Speaker 1: they served, Hey, Jackie, let's hear our friends at NBCA
27:03
Speaker 1: and cut six one more time. I want to focus
27:06
Speaker 1: on these hair strands. In a previous search of Coleburger's
27:10
Speaker 1: apartment in Washington State, investigators also gathered possible hair strands,
27:14
Speaker 1: chemical resistant gloves, items that had red and brown stains,
27:17
Speaker 1: and a computer tower. In December, Colburger had driven home
27:21
Speaker 1: with his father to Pennsylvania from Washington State University, where
27:24
Speaker 1: he was pursuing his PhD in criminal justice. On that trip,
27:28
Speaker 1: the pair were pulled over twice in Indiana weeks before
27:31
Speaker 1: the arrest. Today, they were driving a white Hunday Alantra,
27:35
Speaker 1: the same type of car police say was captured on
27:37
Speaker 1: surveillance video near the scene of the murders. Coburger's school
27:40
Speaker 1: less than ten miles from the University of Idaho. Prime
27:57
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. In a previous search of Coburger's
28:01
Speaker 1: apartment in Washington State, investigators also gathered possible hair strands,
28:05
Speaker 1: chemical resistant gloves, items that had red and brown stains,
28:09
Speaker 1: and a computer tower. In December, Coleburger had driven home
28:12
Speaker 1: with his father to Pennsylvania from Washington State University, where
28:16
Speaker 1: he was pursuing his PhD in criminal justice. On that trip,
28:19
Speaker 1: the pair were pulled over twice in Indiana weeks before
28:22
Speaker 1: the arrest. Hi'll do today. They were driving a white
28:25
Speaker 1: Hunday a Lantra, the same type of car police say
28:28
Speaker 1: was captured on surveillance video near the scene of the murders.
28:31
Speaker 1: Coburger's school less than ten miles from the University of
28:34
Speaker 1: Idaho Del Carson. If even one of the hairs found
28:39
Speaker 1: in Kyburger's apartment match one of these four victims or
28:45
Speaker 1: the victim's dog, it's over as far as I'm concerned.
28:49
Speaker 1: That's direct connection. And let me go back to the
28:53
Speaker 1: mask issue, because I had access in Ted Bundy's pillings
28:57
Speaker 1: to a lot of his own personally hand drawn sketches
29:02
Speaker 1: of himself. He'd sit in front of a mirror and
29:04
Speaker 1: drawing himself with his disguises on. If Cooburger was into
29:10
Speaker 1: these sort of selial killers, white white, white, white I
29:15
Speaker 1: gotta let that so, Ken, what did you just say
29:18
Speaker 1: about Ted Bundy dressing up in outfits and drawing pictures
29:22
Speaker 1: of himself. That's exactly right. He would sit in front
29:25
Speaker 1: of a mirror and hand sketch himself with a mask
29:29
Speaker 1: on his arm and a sling so he could get
29:31
Speaker 1: a feel for how he looked. And certainly Coburger would
29:35
Speaker 1: have had access to things like that. I don't know
29:38
Speaker 1: whether he had particular sketches, but we know he emulates
29:42
Speaker 1: people connected with these kinds of crimes, and we know that,
29:46
Speaker 1: so it's quite possible that he would take that mask
29:49
Speaker 1: and the other the knife and those sorts of things
29:52
Speaker 1: and play with them in front of a mirror so
29:54
Speaker 1: he could look at himself to behave that way. And
29:57
Speaker 1: that's where photographs become so important, the phone usage in
30:01
Speaker 1: the ram memory of that computer motherboard that we're talking about,
30:06
Speaker 1: to see whether he actually displayed himself. I mean, we
30:09
Speaker 1: know from the sex crimes point of view, and I
30:13
Speaker 1: realized that he's not been charged with that, but from
30:15
Speaker 1: that perspective, these individuals achieved satisfaction from looking at themselves
30:22
Speaker 1: and how impressive they think they look. With that narcissistic angle. Okay,
30:26
Speaker 1: you know what, I kind of blacked out when you
30:29
Speaker 1: said Ted Bundy would dress up in different outfits and
30:34
Speaker 1: then draw pictures of himself. Cheryl McCollum, what would you
30:38
Speaker 1: think if you walked in on your husband and he
30:41
Speaker 1: had some outfit on and he was drawing pictures of himself.
30:47
Speaker 1: Why does it add me my husband? Why can't it
30:49
Speaker 1: be David? Because I'm thinking on you right now drawing
30:53
Speaker 1: pictures of himself. Listen, here's the bottom line. I think
30:56
Speaker 1: what the point Dell is making for me is it
30:59
Speaker 1: does so level of ego that is obviously concerning, but
31:03
Speaker 1: it also points to what you can glean from these
31:06
Speaker 1: searches there. They should be looking for sketch books, They
31:10
Speaker 1: should be looking for things on his phone. They should
31:13
Speaker 1: be looking for items that he bought two yeah, how
31:17
Speaker 1: many times? And I'll bring the guys in on this too,
31:22
Speaker 1: Del Carson, Chris McDonagh. But first to you, Cheryl McCollum,
31:26
Speaker 1: how many times do you believe Brian Coberger put on
31:33
Speaker 1: his outfit that he was gonna wear the night of
31:37
Speaker 1: the murders and checked it and looked in the mirror. Oh,
31:43
Speaker 1: what I think Keiths thought about it. I think hes
31:46
Speaker 1: fantasized about it. I think he put it on and
31:49
Speaker 1: all repeatedly. I think he might have even timed himself
31:54
Speaker 1: how fast he could get it on and get it
31:56
Speaker 1: off because he knew he was going to have to
31:58
Speaker 1: change clothes. No doubt in my mind. That's magic Carol
32:03
Speaker 1: for you. You get it girls, Okay, del Carson, I
32:06
Speaker 1: know you somehow have to work sex into every single
32:10
Speaker 1: possible topic. You even worked it into a scenario of
32:14
Speaker 1: walking into the grocery store and on one side of
32:16
Speaker 1: the wedding magazines on the other side of the penthouse.
32:19
Speaker 1: But go ahead, I'm ready. How many times do you
32:23
Speaker 1: think Coburger, if in fact he's guilty, tried on his outfit.
32:29
Speaker 1: It's like a girl in the dressing room with those
32:32
Speaker 1: mirrors that are all around, looking at herself from every angle. Well,
32:36
Speaker 1: our wives do this all the time. They sit in
32:38
Speaker 1: front of a mirror and they put on a disguise. Right,
32:41
Speaker 1: I didn't say that, by the way, I'm telling So
32:45
Speaker 1: this is about his image of himself. Chris McDonough, he
32:51
Speaker 1: was playing a part. After all of his interviews with
32:56
Speaker 1: all of these convicted felons, about what did you feel
32:59
Speaker 1: at the time of the crime, how did you pick
33:02
Speaker 1: out your victim? How did you exit the scene? All
33:06
Speaker 1: of his questions. He's living vicariously through this, through these
33:10
Speaker 1: other criminals, and then his image of himself committing these crimes.
33:16
Speaker 1: He fulfilled his fantasy. You are a thousand percent right, Nancie.
33:22
Speaker 1: And and you know that's his right, that's his super
33:26
Speaker 1: egal right. That's it speaking there. And if we look
33:29
Speaker 1: on the search warrant when Dale mentioned the drawing, look
33:32
Speaker 1: at item number thirty four. I can't make out what
33:36
Speaker 1: the third word word is, but it shows something, Okay,
33:41
Speaker 1: no problem. A man's oh my goodness, a man something
33:45
Speaker 1: drawing exactly word drawing. I can't A man's hand drawling
33:59
Speaker 1: its hand. Yeah, I could see that. I could see
34:03
Speaker 1: hand drawing of what. Oh okay, this is scary. That's
34:08
Speaker 1: fitting in exactly what you said about Bundy. You know,
34:11
Speaker 1: everything I look at is a connection back to the murders. Guys.
34:19
Speaker 1: There's medical documents, there's a craftsman's I guess that's the HVAC.
34:26
Speaker 1: There's the note from him to his father. Everything can
34:31
Speaker 1: be related back. So what are they doing right now?
34:34
Speaker 1: Cheryl with all of the evidence. We now know that
34:36
Speaker 1: they have seized Nancy. They are putting it in their
34:40
Speaker 1: war room on separate tables, and they are painting a
34:43
Speaker 1: picture with every item what would pre impose what was doing.
34:48
Speaker 1: And they're gonna again, They're gonna tell the story with
34:51
Speaker 1: every object. It's not enough to say, oh, we've got
34:55
Speaker 1: this type of knife in a sheath. They're gonna tell
34:58
Speaker 1: the story. Why this night, Why a leather sheet, Why
35:02
Speaker 1: would he drop it and leave it behind? Why the
35:05
Speaker 1: blood in the floor mats, Why these tennis shoes have
35:08
Speaker 1: a little bit of biological evidence in the groove, but
35:12
Speaker 1: it's not the same pattern that we fall in the snow.
35:15
Speaker 1: They're going to be able to do that. We do
35:17
Speaker 1: it all the time. You're one of the best I've
35:19
Speaker 1: ever seen at it. But you know what you and
35:21
Speaker 1: I would do if this was our case, we would
35:24
Speaker 1: be in that war room. We would touch every single
35:27
Speaker 1: item and put it in story forms, starting with once
35:30
Speaker 1: upon a time I'm just looking at They even took
35:34
Speaker 1: not only did they take the brake pedal, the gas pedal,
35:37
Speaker 1: They took the floor mats, used water bottles, a reflective vest.
35:46
Speaker 1: They took the seatbelt, boot. Explain that Dell Carson the
35:51
Speaker 1: seat belt boot, but interpret to mean the area from
35:56
Speaker 1: which the seat belt. Seatbelt pulls out where it retracts
36:01
Speaker 1: is what you want, because anywhere near the shoulder where
36:05
Speaker 1: you're gonna have blood spatter if the knife we went
36:08
Speaker 1: down like we suspect that it did, and any of
36:12
Speaker 1: that area he could not have remembered to clean. Now. Remember,
36:18
Speaker 1: you know they've taken the vacuum cleaner. He probably used
36:21
Speaker 1: that to shop back to clean out his car. So
36:25
Speaker 1: they'll take that filter. They'll look for any my hair's
36:29
Speaker 1: fiber DNA connected with the crime seat. They'll do the
36:32
Speaker 1: same thing with a seat belt. It just makes it
36:34
Speaker 1: easier to get to something other than going to a
36:37
Speaker 1: vacuum cleaner. Hey, I just had a thought. You know
36:40
Speaker 1: what you said about the seat belt. When it says
36:43
Speaker 1: seatbelt boot, I thought that meant they storage area in
36:47
Speaker 1: your car you pull the seatbelt out off. But now
36:50
Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's you know, Cheryl, when you reach up
36:53
Speaker 1: and you grab that part of the seat belt where
36:58
Speaker 1: there's usually a lot of some sort and you pull
37:01
Speaker 1: it down. That reminds me of a light switch. So
37:06
Speaker 1: often criminals forget to clean the light switch, and that's
37:11
Speaker 1: like on a seatbelt. You grab it and you pull
37:14
Speaker 1: it over. That'd be a perfect place to get a
37:16
Speaker 1: blood transfer. It's a brilliant place. Let me take something
37:20
Speaker 1: else that leads off the page to me that they
37:22
Speaker 1: took out of the hun day. They took seven quarters
37:26
Speaker 1: thirty six times thirty two nickels and eight pennies. He
37:29
Speaker 1: didn't clean that money, and I bet you there's biological
37:33
Speaker 1: evidence on them. I wonder if you had to go
37:36
Speaker 1: through any tolls along the way. Aren't there a lot
37:39
Speaker 1: of tolls going from there from his apartment at Washington
37:45
Speaker 1: State University all the way across the country to the Poconos.
37:49
Speaker 1: They had to go through tolls to use that change,
37:53
Speaker 1: get it and touch it. Yeah, I agree with you.
37:56
Speaker 1: By then he would have already been showered and cleaned,
37:58
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't matter. He did not have to use
38:01
Speaker 1: at all the night of the murders to get back
38:02
Speaker 1: to his apartment. I'm driven at myself. It's no time
38:06
Speaker 1: at all. If you're the supervisor, you look at your
38:09
Speaker 1: agent and you say, take everything you possibly can out
38:12
Speaker 1: of that car, don't leave anything. And so that's the
38:17
Speaker 1: way that system works because once you have access to
38:20
Speaker 1: it and you got to change a custody, you can't
38:23
Speaker 1: go back later. And as to Cheryl's point, you know,
38:26
Speaker 1: that's why you collect everything that you can, everything that
38:29
Speaker 1: you see, everything that you can possibly imagine. And it
38:33
Speaker 1: involves technical stuff, taking out ceiling tiles, looking in bathroom toilets,
38:39
Speaker 1: you know, all those kinds of things necessary in the
38:41
Speaker 1: function of good crime searches, and we're not seeing that today.
38:47
Speaker 1: People have referred to technology. They think everything's just technical
38:51
Speaker 1: and the old traditional investigative techniques have been lost with
38:56
Speaker 1: my generation. You know, I'm glad to see that they
38:58
Speaker 1: took the power cable Chris McDonough because we know he
39:03
Speaker 1: had his phone turned on at a certain point when
39:07
Speaker 1: he leaves the crime scene, according to police, and he
39:11
Speaker 1: is just anal compulsive enough. You know what, Cheryl, My
39:16
Speaker 1: husband David can have power at ninety nine percent on
39:21
Speaker 1: his phone, but the first thing he does when he
39:23
Speaker 1: gets in the car is plugs of the power cable.
39:25
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if he did the same and
39:28
Speaker 1: they got the power cable. Yeah, we are creatures of habit,
39:31
Speaker 1: There's no doubt. And again this tells about his personality.
39:35
Speaker 1: He is not going to let that phone drain out.
39:38
Speaker 1: And that's why it's interesting when the phone goes to
39:41
Speaker 1: airplane mode and is shut off just a couple of
39:44
Speaker 1: periods of time, and you and I hammer all the time,
39:47
Speaker 1: pattern patterns, patterns. He doesn't do that any other time.
39:51
Speaker 1: Going backwards for months and months and month, he never
39:54
Speaker 1: does that. Guys, we know of three knives, a shovel, handgun,
39:58
Speaker 1: black ski mask among the many many items seized. The
40:03
Speaker 1: search warrant in the last hours relating to the Coburger
40:08
Speaker 1: quadruple murder case has been unsealed. We wait as justice unfolds.
40:15
Speaker 1: Thank you to my three incredible guests, Cheryl McCollum, Dale Carson,
40:21
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, and thank you to you for being with us.
40:24
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,