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Executive Decision · Citizen Frame

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Six months ago, a shipment of the nerve toxin DZ-5 was hijacked while in transit
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from Russia to Germany. Now, we're certain the Chechen Mafia was behind it.
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A few days ago, rumors surfaced that the DZ-5 was now in the hands of an Osmed Rushchami.
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A known supplier of arms and explosives to the office crew.
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Are you saying the nerve gas is on board?
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Yes, sir, I am. And it's my opinion that Hassan is planning to use the DZ-5
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and the airplane together as a tactical weapon, a sort of poor man's atomic
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bomb to be detonated here, in Washington.
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How much of this DZ-5 might he have? I can't be exact there,
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sir, but I can tell you this much.
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If this were DZ-5, that single drop would be more than enough to kill every man in this room.
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And by the way, the name he's using, Altar, in ancient Arabic, means revenge.
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All right, guys, welcome back to another exciting episode of Citizen Frame as
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we continue the recently added plane month. Wow. It's fucking stupid.
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So fucking stupid. We're idiots. Yeah.
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I don't even want to do plane month anymore. I mean, tune in, folks.
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Next month, we've got car month, and after that, it's motorbike month. Yeah.
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And then we're even thinking of doing skateboard month.
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We've, uh, we picked our Halloween titles because Halloween month always does,
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Halloween month and Christmas month always do well for us.
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So definitely got one up for Christmas. That's definitely going to be happening.
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The Silent Night, Daily Night remake. Oh yeah.
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But we pretty much got our guns in a row for Halloween month.
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And so we're going to be pushing these through plane month. And then we got. Plane month.
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Air Force One, which is pretty much this movie. Yeah.
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And then we've got Snakes on a Plane, and then we've got—,
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We're going to do a little break. We're going to talk Serious King,
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which was a King movies that have a little slight, slight, slight,
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slight fantasy element to it.
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But they're more grounded in that Shawshank Redemption.
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And recently, I just saw The Life of Chuck.
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Then we're going to do The Warriors, just to revisit that one.
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We did that one when we first started. So I like to do it when we're kind of,
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I would like to say, better at it. But, well, I wasn't on board.
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So, I mean, you want to get these things done right and fixed. So, yeah, I understand.
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I understand. You know?
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Yeah, that's it. That's it. We just want to find out how Trevor can make himself
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look like a bigger ass. Can you dig it?
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And what was that one? We're doing Warriors, Brewing and Pepper, another one?
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Yeah. I mean, I think what we're talking about, you know, I mean,
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you already mentioned the keen ones. Maybe Stand By Me that was talked of as well.
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No, I don't think we've got time for Stand By Me. Because we still have to do
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the final lesson days. Oh, yeah. I forgot about them.
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I mean, technically, they're sort of, well, the first one anyway,
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can run smoothly in the plane month, you know, in a way.
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It's a bit of a stretch. That's not a bad transition. Yeah, it's like a smooth transition.
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Yeah. See, we actually have this all really planned, way ahead of schedule,
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you know, months, years in advance. Yeah, that's it.
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What the fuck were we going to do? I can't fucking remember.
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I don't care anymore. Halloween month you were talking about.
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Oh, no, we've done Halloween month. So we got Air Force One,
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Snakes on a Plane, The Warriors, Shawshank Redemption, The Life of Chuck,
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The Final Destinations.
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That's what's next. And then Halloween month. And then we got Halloween month.
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And so far, it looks like it's going to be, and these will change probably because
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we're stupid, which will be The Changeling, classic.
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John Carpenter, of course, The Prince of Darkness.
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Weapons. Yes, that is coming out this week, but we want to save it because we
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might do Barbarians, if we can get to it, and then do Weapons.
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This guy looks like he's going to be a huge up-and-comer.
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Barbarian was a wonderful film, so I'm looking forward to Weapons.
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House by the Cemetery and Suspiria.
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So far, that's our picks. If you guys have something else that we missed that
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you're looking forward to doing Halloween, probably it's going to be Halloween, a month and a half.
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Yeah, it usually is. It usually is. Yeah. We'll go ahead and pepper something else in.
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In October, there's always a new release coming out. That's a horror film.
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So we'll probably end up putting that one in there if it's something like a
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one-off, just to keep it fresh and new.
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But I think we're pretty happy with the lineup that we've got.
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All right, here we are. We're here to talk 1995 executive season.
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Let's get my boy Kurt Russell. Kurt Russell's hot. I was kind of making a resurgence thanks to Tombstone.
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Not that he never really had to make one, but kind of after a backdraft an unlawful
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entry, did a couple, and then obviously Tombstone brought him back,
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and then he kept that resurgence going with this little film called Executive Decision.
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We talked to the director here before, Stuart Baird. He is actually an editor,
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and actually pretty much his whole craze has been an editor, still going to this day.
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He's known for three films, U.S. Marshals, Star Trek Nemesis,
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and this little film, Executive Decision. Now, he's a Donner guy.
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He's worked under donner for much of his career as
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an editor this is a pretty impressive lineup he has
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edited the omen superman outland lady hawk lethal weapon one and two die hard
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two demolition man casino royale skyfall last boy scout i mean yeah i mean that's
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a pretty good cv in terms of editing. Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, and I haven't even dipped into other stuff he's done. That's just giving
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a handful of the movies I really enjoy.
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But he only did three films. And unfortunately, I don't think the next two don't do as well. U.S.
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Marshals and Star Trek Nemesis. Star Trek Nemesis pretty much ended the Next
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Generation series of films.
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It's all right. I don't actually think it's that bad. I think it's decent enough.
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But compared to maybe the first contact and stuff, it wasn't as good.
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But I still enjoy it. You know, it was still true Trek.
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But it did, I believe, bomb at the box office.
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Yeah, it was pretty much a conversation. with the film, I remember that being,
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but I didn't realize Tom Hardy was the bad guy. That's right.
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He plays the clone of Picard in it.
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Like a younger clone. Yeah, his first outing, so that was kind of cool. Yeah. Reference.
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Alright, $55 million budget. Made about $125 million worldwide,
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so it made its money back. Nothing great, but it still made its money back.
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And let's... Well, then what we did right away was the marketing campaign.
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Now, this was, you've seen Steven Seagal in the adverts, and you've seen Kurt
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Russell, obviously, in the adverts.
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So everyone see Kurt Russell and Steven Seagal team up.
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Now, the rumor is, well, there is, it's not a rumor, there is a fact,
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nobody likes Steven Seagal on the set.
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And I can understand that. The guy's a douche. Everyone knows this.
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And John Lucuzamo, especially. Yeah. And the rumor is, is that Rat,
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the character played by John Lucuzamo, had a smaller part, and it was actually
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supposed to be Seagal on the plane,
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and have more of the part that John Lucas Amo ends up playing.
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Now, I don't know what's fact or not. I will say this, I don't believe that
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because A, the rack character, the stuff he does is only what a small,
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he's called rack because he's a tiny guy.
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So the places he goes on the plane, there's no way 6'5", Steven Seagal was doing
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any moving on that plane.
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So it was the exact decision
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they were going to kill out their money well guys got
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to understand warner brothers will not fire steven seagal i'll
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tell you why because at the time whether you
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like the guy or not he was warner brothers baby he in
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every film was a profitable above the
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law out for justice hard to kill mark
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forduff was actually fox just got the huge huge
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oscar nominated action film under siege
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under warner brothers he just had a multi-picture a
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picture deal with them so this was he
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he was in bed with warner brothers so if you're
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hearing rumors that he was fired there's no way that happened and also
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the fact that it was it was marketed so well they knew that they're right because
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he wasn't on the posters he wasn't he's not even the start credits they uh they
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say that's because well he was a dick it's not because that's the way they wanted
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to market it, very clever marketing.
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And once they do what they do with Seagal, you definitely have me because the guy's just a dude.
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Yeah, well, what I read up on about this was apparently his first day on set,
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he came onto the set and said, right, I'm in charge, what I say goes.
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Words to that effect. And apparently John Leguizamo, forgive me if I'm pronouncing
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his name wrong, I always think I pronounce his name wrong, but apparently he
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bust out laughing, thinking that Seagal was joking, but he wasn't joking.
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And apparently then Seagal did this kung fu,
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aikido move on him and pinned him to the wall took
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the wind out of him right now i'm recording they
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apparently he was from what i've read apparently he
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was a dick and everyone hated him on the set which
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i totally understand but apparently
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i don't think he was actually sacked as such but from what
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again this could be true or may not be true apparently they
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then made the decision to to get around
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sacking him they decided to kill off his character half
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an hour in which does happen now i would say i i
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had never seen i'd heard of this film but i'd never actually sat
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down and watched it before so going into it i was
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thinking yeah kurt russell steven seagal kicking
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ass an action film with them two as
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the main stars i it's a big rug pull when seagal gets killed off at least it
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was for me almost like janet lee in the shower in psycho and to be honest this
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film then goes in a very different direction than I expected it to and I mean that as a compliment.
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That's my point though you can't, that was their plan you can't have Stephen
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Scull hiding on the top of a plane on a little rope going across he's too big, he's huge.
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It doesn't make any sense so this script no, he couldn't get on the plane you
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can't have Stephen Scull hiding in a plane Amen.
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He's too big. It wouldn't make any sense. He was going to be killed off.
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I don't care what people are saying.
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There's no way he wasn't fired.
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I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. He's too built, too tall to be in those
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small quarters with all those other guys.
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But they could have worked around that. Maybe they, I don't know.
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Well, I don't know. I mean, the writers, that's their job. They're right around these things.
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They could barely get into the dumbwaiter. Well, maybe they would have had him
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doing more of the Kurt Russell stuff or whatever. you know yes he wouldn't have
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been crawling through like narrow you know chutes on the plane or whatever.
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This is what Kurt Russell does Well he does it but he's a big guy as well No
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I'm sticking he wasn't fired.
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At the end of the day I don't know Yeah we don't know but he wasn't fired.
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It wasn't there's no way. That was their bread and butter.
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And I would say that going on this film I was expecting 90s action led by Kurt
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Russell and Steven Seagal but it It does a real turn, a real sort of 360.
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Instead of it being all out action, it's actually more brains over brawn,
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where it's like... Yeah, no, it's a thriller. Yes, absolutely, yeah.
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They get rid of the 90s flair action when Seagal leaves. 100%.
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And that's the point. I think the point of Stuart Barrett, what he was doing
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was, all right, you're not getting your 90s flair with me.
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He dies. now we're back to more of a thriller with these guys,
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stuck and they've got all these circumstances they have to deal with and they've got,
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like an hour to do it so but what I've been doing aside from Seagal being a
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dick or not whatever it actually with him being killed off halfway through it
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really works in the film's favour and we go brains instead of brawms you know
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like you say a thriller yeah,
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alright so in this one we've got Kurt Russell Stephen Schell,
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Halle Berry, John Luguzamo.
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Oliver Platt, David Soushay, David Soushay, famous for playing Quiro on television. Yep.
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Yep. Joe Morton, Biddy Wong, the late JT Walsh, and the one-armed man from The Fugitive, Jaffa.
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So we got Grant, Lieutenant Colonel, Austin Travis, for about 10 minutes.
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Gene, Rat, Cale, Hassan, Cappy, Louis, And Senator Mavros, who's really brave in this one.
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All right, so I like the beginning. And what I like about the beginning,
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get some good violence, get some shooting, get some killing,
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and it's just during the credits.
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So right there, there's your action, guys. There's your Chuck Norris,
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Steven Seagal, 80s flair right there. We get the action at the beginning and the end.
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And we also get Kurt Russell learning how to fly.
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That'll not come into play later on.
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Yeah, yeah. So it's pretty much an introduction, a data dump to all the characters.
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But we do find out that one of Travis's men gets killed and there was no gas,
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no... There were even a sort of nerve gas bomb. It was like a nerve gas bomb.
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The Chechen rebels were manufacturing or whatever. But Seagal's character was
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one of the ones getting in.
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And they were sent there by Kurt Russell, essentially.
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And they're sort of blaming each other. Kurt Russell's basically saying they
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got there too late. But Seagal says there was no nerve gas.
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Yes. Yeah, that will come in play. And then, but you do get some,
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within 17 minutes, they're on the plane.
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And so it's very fast paced. And then the great thing about the film,
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it gets really, it's really fast paced the first 17 minutes.
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So we get on the plane, we lose Seagal.
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But what happens then, once they get on the plane, it's a silent thriller almost.
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It's almost a silent film because the whole film, we got a whisper.
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Yeah. Because if they say a sound, they obviously echo throughout the plane.
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And so then you got the suicide bomber in the beginning.
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This is all because of when Jaffa gets brought back to the U.S.
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And his brother. For his war crimes. Yeah. His brother decides,
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I'm going to take over this plane, and we'll see what happens from there. Yeah.
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But now, I do like, there's a wonderful young actress, Mary Ellen Trainor.
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You have this character, she's in it for like 30 seconds, Allison,
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and Jean's played by Halle Berry.
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Now, Mary Ann Traynor is a character actress. She was married to Zemeckis for
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years, and Zemeckis and Richard Donner are all good friends.
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So she was on all of Zemeckis' and all of Donner's films, and she's very nice
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to see, and sadly she passed.
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But she gets a wedding gift from Jean, and right there you're like,
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you know, she's dead. Yeah, oh, yeah, totally.
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It's got a lot of these plot devices. Kurt Russell's learning to fly.
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Gee, who's going to fly the plane at the end of the film? Yeah.
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You've got the wedding gift. She's dead. Did you see, uh.
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Marla Maples? Who was that? Trump's wife was in this at the time.
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Oh, that's right. She's the other Earth Stewardess.
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Yeah. It doesn't say one word the entire film. Just looks. Yeah, I know that there.
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But the Mary Ellen Trainor, I mean, I will always remember her as a psychiatrist
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in Lethal Weapon, who's always got issues with rigs, trying to diagnose rigs, that sort of thing.
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Also the mom in the Goonies. But yes, I just read up that that other Earth Stewardess
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was an ex-wife of Trump. Yeah.
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And now at the time, at the time she was Trump. She was Trump's wife, yeah.
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See, I would have to say as well that although she's not in it that much,
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Halle Berry is very good here in the scenes that she's in.
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Yeah, no, this is one of Halle Berry's first outings. I know.
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She did a couple little small roles.
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But this was kind of her first, well, I could say good outing.
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But there's a funny scene where you got Hassan who's taking over the plane,
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and there's a big, right in front of, everyone's full view, including the passengers, flight manifest.
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Yeah. And in big red circle, air marshal sitting here.
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And so anyone sitting right near where Halle Berry is, oh, there's the air marshal.
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But she quickly grabs it. It's a smart scene. She dumps it. besides it being
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stupid, she dumps it so Hassan doesn't find where the air marshal is.
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And now the one flaw, the movie's got some flaws.
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I'm not going to, I mean, I like the film. I love the film, actually.
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It's much better than Con Air, but they're two different films.
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But what I don't like about it is,
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again, going back to what we said about Cyrus from Con Air,
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is that you got Hussein, who's a pretty smart guy up to this point,
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and he really does let Haley barely get away with a lot here yeah several times
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yeah you think after maybe once or twice he'd just kill her because he is pretty
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ruthless but for the sake of the plot.
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He doesn't like you should have done it give it to Trump's wife or or even give
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Mary Traynor and play Alison a better part let her die with little grace let
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her hide the manifest or or take the bullet like pardon the pun going,
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I hit it and I destroyed it. And then he shoots her.
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We needed a little more of that because you see Allison's body at the bottom
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when the soldiers are going through the luggage and all. They find her dead body.
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But the one thing we don't get here is peril.
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I know. Now there's tension. We do get, don't get me wrong, it doesn't take
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away from the film, but we get the peril in the beginning.
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One of the soldiers gets it. Some of the soldiers get it here.
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We get the bomber, the suicide bomber, but we don't see the peril.
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I know it sounds terrible what I'm saying, but what I mean is,
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besides the senator, who's obviously going to get it, you needed more innocent
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civilians to get it here.
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Because Hassan, to me, really wasn't a threat. No, no, I agree on that.
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Yeah, I mean, there is quite a lot of tension here, but you did need him to
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bump more people off, especially in the first two acts, to set him up,
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his character up as more of a threat.
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He does it with the senator and a couple of others, but it's like later on.
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And again, we were talking about things that were, you know,
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yeah, she's dead once she gets the wedding present, Kurt Russell learning to fly,
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you know, as soon as we see the senator behaving like a dick,
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yeah, his days are numbered, no problem at all, you know, so,
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but yes, I agree that Suchet's character should have killed more to set him up as more of a threat.
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Right away. I mean, the man they take over the plane, he should have shot people. Yes.
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Gary Oldman does it perfectly in Air Force One. Doesn't give a shit.
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He's brutal in Air Force One. We'll get to that film.
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He needed to do this. I'm not looking for all these civilians to get it,
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but there had to be a body count. You really got up and call an arm?
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Even taking out one of the pilots before the way to, let's take out the pilots at the end here.
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You needed I don't know, they needed to really boost the pilots and had one
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of his men being a trained pilot or something and then piloting the plane you
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know, I'm surprised that the pilots lasted so long,
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One of the guys says, I'm a pilot by the way don't try anything so I was like, okay,
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well take one of them out and go, okay, or even have don't planes usually have
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a side pilot, you have the two pilots, you have the pilot the co-pilot and then
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you have the dude the navigator guy, I think he sits in the corner I don't know.
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I don't know what he's called, but fucking get rid of him. Yeah.
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Now, I would say it does. You need to show the stewarders get it.
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I know it sounds terrible, and I know maybe they wanted to keep it a little
20:28
more grounded and not too... Or Beth is a bit stupid as well.
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She just basically, that guy shoves her basically, and then she bangs her head.
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You know, it wasn't very... It's a bit of a pointless death from both sides
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of the argument here, you know?
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So they decide... I do love the meeting with Grant and the other meeting is, what are we going to do?
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And Grant's like, listen, guys, you don't understand what's going to happen
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here. You're wrong. We can't let him land. Yeah. What do you mean?
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He's got the nerve gas on that plane. He gives them all a spiel Y.
20:59
And there's our boy, Travis, Steven Scott going, he's like, he's like this man
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sent us a wild goose chase. I do think it's funny.
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That this is, if as smart as the film does go, it does get smart once they're on the plane.
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It's so Steven Seagal dumbed down when he's in it. I know.
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Because here's a man, Travis, who is the big wig lieutenant colonel,
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is going to literally put Grant on that plane.
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He's a civilian, should not be there.
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But the only reason he's doing it is to get revenge because he thinks he led
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them to a wild goose chase.
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Yeah, no actual colonel. Nobody would do that. with any sort of responsibility
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or decency would do that. But then again, it is Steven Seagal.
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And I have to say as well, for the brief scenes that he is in at the start, he cannot act for shit.
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He has the emotional range of an empty tin of beer.
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He's completely... He looks constipated, you know, constantly. He's terrible. Yeah.
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And I see another thing. We said this whenever we did that film before of his.
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What one was it? It wasn't Hard to Kill. It was Nico, the Nico one.
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Above the law. Above the law, yeah, it was called Nico in the UK.
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Yeah, he walks and runs in a really odd manner, like some sort of drunken chicken or something.
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It's just, it's fucking distracting, the mental head case.
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Let's talk about the scene of them getting on the plane.
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There's a lot of really fun moments, a lot of tense moments in this,
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but I love this scene. This whole scene works for me. I really enjoy it.
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And the whole stealth going underneath the plane and having to get those guys to point A to point B.
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And they have this little beacon that, you know, the one that blocks,
22:47
they'll let the pilots know that the door's open. Yeah.
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And they're saying, oh, sister, there's no way that door's open.
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We'd be dead. Yeah. The cabin would pressurize or whatever.
22:59
And as they're trying to get up, they lose the beacon. And you got Cappy,
23:02
pretty much gets a spinal injury. He falls.
23:05
It's a smart way to get Kurt Russell onto the plane because he's got to help
23:11
Cappy because he's hanging off that wire.
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And the turbulence is starting to hit. So he's got to get him off that,
23:19
you know, push him up. He's got to get on the plane.
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So it's a smart way to get Cahill and Grant, the two civilians,
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onto the plane. It's well realized.
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And then Seagal goes, well, he goes, Seagal, you're not going to make it if
23:32
we close. He goes, you will. And he closes. And I don't know how he gets sucked out.
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Including his family.
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But I'm not doing the scene justice, but I'm sure everyone's seen the executive
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decision, but I think a lot of people forgot about it.
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That's why I don't mind doing this film because I think people do forget about
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executive decision, but I,
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If you hate Chicago, like most of us do, you'll love this movie.
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Oh, by the way, spoiler alert.
24:02
Chicago gets it. Yeah, but it's sort of off-screen.
24:06
You don't actually... To be honest, like I said, this is my first time watching
24:09
this. I knew of it, but I hadn't actually sat down and watched it before.
24:12
And I was expecting him to do a bit of a Han Solo later on, you know,
24:16
in the first Star Wars, and pop up and save the day because you don't really
24:19
see him dying off-screen.
24:20
Sorry, on-screen. You do.
24:23
Yeah, you do and you don't. you know I mean you don't
24:26
see his body get sucked out yes I know but you don't actually see like limbs
24:30
flying off or anything like that which I wanted to see where would he have gone
24:33
I don't know out of the plane you know I don't know I wanted to see him get
24:40
sucked up into one of the engines and burnt up or something but sadly didn't get that,
24:45
no I think his death's the worst he has to float now down all the way think
24:50
about all the wrongdoings well shit floats anyway.
24:57
Oh, Percy Gowl. Percy Gowl. Anyone's picking on him. Oh, he's not listening. A highly dirty is, but.
25:05
You know, he's sitting at home right now, probably having a box of Oreos. Yeah. And, and going.
25:10
Looking across the piano. What's this, what's this citizen frame?
25:14
I'm going to listen to these fudders. I got to do Aikido on those motherfuckers.
25:19
But, but his expression not changing. Yeah.
25:23
I mean, back in his like 80s, in the 80s, early 90s, I'd be like,
25:28
oh, fuck, we're in trouble.
25:29
But now I'd be like, oh, hold on. It's just Steven Seagal. I see.
25:33
He let himself go, but let's just say, and that's being polite.
25:36
You know, that's why we're being cards and slumber to him about him on the other side of the world.
25:44
Watch he lives in Belfast. We wouldn't say to his face. He's like,
25:49
I don't think I'm going to move to Belfast.
25:50
Yeah. And I'm going to listen to these guys in Citizen Freight. Yeah.
25:54
I got a call to their doors.
25:59
Sorry, Stephen. We're only joking if you're listening. Now, the movie starts
26:04
off pretty, once they're on the plane, this is where it gets smart.
26:07
And this is where they have to adapt to the environment.
26:11
They have no way of communicating with the ground.
26:13
They can't, they have to let them know they made it. They have to detonate the
26:17
bomb and find the bomb and detonate the bomb.
26:20
They have to find the trigger man. but they don't know who that is somewhere
26:24
sitting the sleeper guy passengers,
26:27
they gotta count how many terrorists there actually are I mean guys this is
26:31
really fun stuff and the great thing about it it's not a day to day they're
26:36
not doing this they're literally gonna do what I just said they're gonna do
26:40
they're gonna figure they gotta figure this out and they do,
26:44
it's sort of a bit like do you remember the series 24 which was quite sort of
26:49
it was great show Oh I love 24 Especially at the time But you know Where it's
26:54
almost happening It's not happening in real time here But you sort of feel that
26:57
it is You know And again It's brains over brawn,
27:01
And it really works for it.
27:04
Exactly. And I just love the whole technique.
27:08
In some of these movies, you know, you can sit there and go,
27:10
oh, God, this is going to be boring and slow.
27:12
But it's not. It's very stealth.
27:15
For you guys who like to play the game Splinter Cell, you know,
27:18
or who like Metal Gear, the original stealth game, it's very fun.
27:23
Just watching Rat, Jean-Luc Guzamo, you know, just going across the,
27:28
you can't touch the ceiling because he'll fall through probably.
27:34
And they got to drill the little cameras from the floor up and from the ceiling
27:38
so they can see who's there and what's what.
27:42
It all just works so well.
27:45
And there's a nice scene where they grandstairs, but he can't recognize him.
27:51
He says he hasn't seen him in years, but he would recognize him.
27:55
Maybe he saw him now, but he would definitely recognize his voice.
27:59
And there's a nice scene where he gets stuck in the elevator when he has to
28:03
go look at the camera to try to find out who Hassan is.
28:06
And he's in that dumbwaiter and Halle Berry blocks, you know, hides him.
28:10
So Hassan doesn't see him, but he hears his voice. And it's a nice way of Grant
28:14
going, yeah, Hassan's on board. I found him. Yes.
28:17
But it's good tense. And then when he moves her away, like as he's hiding something
28:23
and then we see he's gone, both, you know, they disappeared.
28:28
And then as he looks out, he looks into the dumbwaiter and looks up.
28:31
We see our boy Rath's head just kind of move away just in time,
28:34
it's so fun, it's so it's really, do you want to.
28:39
Each espionage kind of moment is perfectly timed it's well constructed and well
28:45
realised, I definitely have to say yes there are some cliches like the Oliver
28:50
Platt character, he basically plays that,
28:52
back in the 80s and late 80s and 90s he basically played that same type of character
28:56
in every film, you know, that sort of science engineer a nerd,
29:00
but generally it's, you know, it's,
29:04
For what it is, it sort of works very well in terms of tension.
29:08
And once we get rid of Steven Seagal, the acting, you buy the performances,
29:14
especially by the likes of Barry, I would say, and John Leguizamo,
29:19
Joe Morton as well, even though he spends most of it.
29:22
And that's what works. The characters here aren't there to be victims or a body count.
29:29
They're there for a reason. You've got Cappy, who's the bomb expert.
29:33
You got Grant, who knows, and he can identify Hassan, but technically shouldn't
29:37
have been on there. It was just by chance he's on there.
29:39
You got Rat, Louis, and Baker. They're the Army guys. They're the ones going to go and do the attack.
29:45
Then you got Cahill, who has a background in engineering, and that he's only,
29:50
he could be the arms for Cappy.
29:52
Yes. So everyone's there to do something. Yes.
29:55
Yeah. I mean, yeah, they all have their job and their role to fell.
29:58
Where Con Air like you said, there was way too many bad guys there,
30:03
you kind of got lost who was doing what, who he got here yeah,
30:06
there was too many characters.
30:08
Exactly, and this one you've got Hassan, and you've got Jaffa Jaffa's not on
30:12
the plane, he's the one being transported who he wants out, but then you've
30:16
got the other four guys nobody cares about yeah,
30:19
I wouldn't have liked to have seen one of the good guys get it by David Suchet,
30:25
because that would have raise the ante and raise the stakes,
30:28
but sadly we didn't get that and I do think that does hurt it slightly,
30:33
it's not a big thing but I think it would have again added to more of a threat for the Sushi character,
30:39
but also it would have sort of raised the stakes as well.
30:43
Yeah, you probably could have got rid of Baker or somebody like that.
30:46
Yes. Or I know, you know, Rackett's shop, but he makes it technically. Oh, he does.
30:51
But the great thing, I go with that one though because they make it because
30:56
of the fact it's so well executed in their plan.
30:59
And like I said in the beginning, they all, you know, I always talk about a B.
31:04
They tell us, here's A, we're here, we need to get to C, we're going to tell
31:08
you that we need to do this to get to B and B to C.
31:11
They tell you how they're going to do it and they do it. so it's the whole point
31:14
of the execution is so it's how good they are and there's no way these guys
31:17
are going to take these guys down so I kind of went with that whole but for the sake of drama,
31:22
for the sake of drama I was looking maybe them to have more flaws or for one
31:29
of them to totally mess up to get killed you know type thing just for the sake
31:34
of you know dramatic tension but you know it's still overall it still works,
31:39
it's a sort of minor quibble.
31:41
I like when they have to detonate the bomb. Well, not detonate.
31:49
So they're, and I do like the talk. Yeah.
31:52
I do like the talk between Cahill and Cappy, and he's got to be obviously Cappy's arms.
31:59
And he's, and Oliver Platt plays Nervous Well. Yes. And like he did in Flatliners.
32:05
Yeah, yep. Before this. Yep.
32:07
And, but I like Oliver Platt. I liked him in Three Musketeers.
32:10
He was very funny in that.
32:12
No, I like him. But anyways, he's been around forever. Yeah.
32:17
And then they find out once they figure out the bomb, like, yeah, we got it.
32:22
They find out that's not the real bomb. The bomb is underneath it.
32:26
So there's like 30 minutes of them trying to devact it. They finally get it.
32:31
And now they've got the wool pull over their eyes. So they have to get the zebra
32:34
guy who also has control of the bomb.
32:38
You've got, well, what they have to do is they've got about 20 minutes.
32:44
They've got to neutralize the trigger finger. They've got to stop the bomb.
32:49
They've got to take out the men.
32:52
And not get shot down by the Americans who think they're not on the plane.
32:57
Yeah, and this is all happening about 120 miles until they get blown out.
33:01
Now, there's another scene that's very convenient. I do think it's funny where
33:04
the F-14s are now going to attack them because of the dirty bomb that's pretty much on the flight.
33:12
They can't get, obviously, within airspace because it would damage,
33:18
obviously, the East Coast.
33:20
So these guys are telling them blah, blah, blah, yet they still don't know that
33:24
they're on the plane. They have to try to figure out how to let them know they're on the plane.
33:29
And all of a sudden, we cut to, there's Kurt Russell with Airplane for Dummies book.
33:35
Yeah. And he's showing how to do SOS on the plane's headlights.
33:39
The billboard's cold with basically the indicators. Yeah.
33:42
Yeah. And they see it. And they're like, oh, okay, they're on there.
33:47
We're going to give them another 10 minutes.
33:49
Now, as cheesy and as smart as this film was, that's probably the cheesiest moment for me.
33:55
But when they do- The cheesiest moment is still to come.
33:57
When they do- Oh, the landing, we saw that coming. Yeah. But when they- But
34:03
the funny thing is, even though I was laughing, when he had the plane for dummies,
34:08
and he ends up getting the message out to the people on the ground you went like yeah,
34:15
even though it was stupid you knew it was coming.
34:19
Well you didn't maybe know it was going to happen in that way but you knew there
34:22
was going to be some sort of bullshit device thrown in.
34:26
Where it meant that they didn't shoot the plane down because Kurt Russell and all has to survive,
34:33
so yes You sort of know that something like that's coming And you know It didn't
34:37
bug me or anything I knew it was coming,
34:40
Yeah.
34:43
I love how the senator goes up
34:45
to him. Hey, guys, let me talk to the president. I'll take care of this.
34:49
And then he's like, okay, guys, listen. This is Senator. He just blows his head off. Yeah.
34:55
And he goes, now I'm going to kill a man every minute. Now, we needed this moment. Earlier on?
35:01
Earlier on. Yeah. He needed to take a couple of these people out and passengers.
35:07
I know that sounds terrible, to really be a threat. Totally.
35:10
We need a bad guy where you are,
35:13
like, I think what they're trying to do was they wanted,
35:18
because it was so smart on the plane and they're trying to figure out how to
35:22
get to him without being noticed, they didn't want to turn it to what we got
35:27
in the first 20 minutes of the film.
35:30
They didn't want to go back to that pantomime villain that we kind of want with Hassan.
35:36
They wanted him to be more grounded and more real-like. So that's why I think
35:40
he was killing all his people.
35:41
Back in the 80s and 90s, it was a bit of a Hollywood trope for action films
35:45
to cast a sort of classy British stage actor type.
35:49
Alan Rickman, Gary Oldman here, David Suchet, who's a great actor.
35:53
So I was actually hoping to see more for David Suchet to do and to be more intense
35:59
because he's a brilliant actor and he really can, for what we do see of him,
36:04
he does sell a sinister threat.
36:06
But I just want to admit it's a delicate balance you don't want him to go pantomime
36:10
to Hammy because he's not that type of actor anyway but yeah I think we needed
36:16
something definitely where he maybe bumped ones off earlier on within the first two acts or whatever.
36:22
I mean he does a little bit of that when he when he shoots Raps during on the
36:27
chaos when Kurt Russell sees his moment yes and he thinks he finds he thinks
36:31
Gene found the right trigger man but it wasn't,
36:34
and And that's where all the chaos starts and they, they blow a hole in the, in the plane.
36:40
So everything's gone to chaos. That's not a thing. More people should have been
36:43
sucked out of that place. Yeah, I agree. Totally.
36:45
I'm not trying to be sicko, but this movie is pretty grounded and they're trying
36:49
to make it kind of realistic.
36:50
If you're going to do that, people need to be fucking sucked out of that place.
36:54
Just to confirm, Ciarán say he's not a sicko, but in this film,
36:56
he wanted to see more people getting sucked off.
37:01
I should have sucked out of the plane I never said anything about sucked out
37:04
that's what I'm talking about,
37:07
wow that's really sick I never said that I said sucked out of the plane your
37:13
mind goes in the gutter but again everybody this is the man who loves good dicks
37:17
and assholes in these films I couldn't resist,
37:21
but yes I would say that that did bug me when basically.
37:26
So many hundred thousand whatever it is they are up on the earth they're at
37:30
a great height, and the plane is ripped to shreds, and I did laugh,
37:36
I like to say in the radio, we've got a little bit of superficial damage to
37:39
the plane, or constructual damage, or something like that, I mean,
37:42
talk about all their planet, but yes, that should have killed everybody,
37:45
actually, I think, I mean, I know extra.
37:47
No, it's not, because once they go through, it depends how big the damage was,
37:52
when they start lowering the plane, the altitude,
37:56
that would decompress rise, or something like that, I can't remember,
37:59
I don't call it, I don't know the inner workings of a plane,
38:03
but that will stop it from sucking.
38:06
Can I just add, by the way, that I used to make planes for 11, and that's true.
38:11
Okay, you did it. I did. You were probably some manufacturer,
38:15
some dibwit who had a nut bolt in his hand and passed it on the assembly line.
38:21
I worked for Bombardier Shorts, aircraft manufacturers that made parts for like
38:25
Boeing's regional jets and planes like that.
38:27
Yes, I did. obviously i didn't build whole planes on my own out in my shed you
38:33
know well model planes maybe but no no i i used to build i worked in a factory
38:37
building our craft parts yes and that's why there was probably more plane crashes
38:41
that year or two that's why i get sacked.
38:46
I didn't get sacked it was me or tundon by the way yeah you probably know that
38:51
was it yeah trevor can you get rid of frank spencer there a lot of people every
38:56
time they pad you down when When you, when you, every time they,
38:59
they pad you down and you're, uh,
39:01
uh, leaving, they always find a bunch of nuts and bolts in your pocket.
39:04
You're like, what the fuck is this? He goes, oh, those are just leftovers.
39:08
What's the problem? But I mean, it's not like it was a serious or important
39:12
job. It was only planes, you know?
39:15
Jesus Christ. The day. Oh, thank you.
39:18
That is terrifying that you had access to any kind of part that goes on a fucking
39:23
plane. I used to make boings. Indeed.
39:27
If you knew some of the stuff that we've done on that factory And some of the
39:31
head cases worked on it You would never fly again That's all I'm saying And
39:35
I include myself in that At the time.
39:39
Now, I do like when Hussein gets shot and he decides his last act,
39:45
no one's going to survive, and he shoots the pilots. Yes. I do like that.
39:50
And obviously, this is where we get to going back to the beginning where he
39:57
has passed his pilot. He got his pilot's license. Yeah.
40:00
Where he's going to land the plane. Of course, it's hokey, but it's fucking
40:03
Snake Plissken, and he can fucking do what he wants.
40:06
Fucking right. I mean, it's pure cheese. And it does, with all the tension and
40:12
stuff that we had before, it's a completely different tone.
40:16
But yes, it's a Hollywood blockbuster action film.
40:20
And so you're going to get this sort of thing. Yeah, I was smiling at the cheesiness of it.
40:25
And it was a bit silly, but whatever. You know, fair enough.
40:30
They had to get the plane down somewhere. I like the fact that it started with the 90s flair,
40:37
Steven Seagal-esque action, and then it went to more grounded,
40:41
real, more tension-based, and then it went back to the beginning.
40:47
And that's okay. It's going full circle technically.
40:49
It is a bit. It does jump all over the place. But you know what?
40:53
If I had to choose between Snake Plissken and Steven Seagal landing the plane,
40:57
Snake Plissken any day of the week would,
41:00
No problem. Well, that would be more like Snake Plissken's nerdy twin brother. Yeah, well.
41:06
But, yeah, I like this one. I like this one a lot. This is a lot better than
41:10
Con Air. I enjoy this one.
41:13
Now, I've seen this again, freshly, and about to watch Air Force One,
41:17
and I know Air Force One better.
41:19
I can tell you right now, Wolfgang Peterson's Air Force One stole a lot from this movie. Okay.
41:25
And we'll certainly get to it when we talk about it. I would say- So that's
41:30
going to get a fucking pass anyway.
41:31
I would say, I would give this a pass for what it is. I think it works well
41:36
for most of it, actually.
41:38
But I, you can't really compare Connor with this.
41:41
But if you had to pick between the two, I'd enjoy Connor more because it's funnier.
41:47
There's more quirkiness there. This is more played, more serious.
41:51
But yeah, I mean, they're both passes for me anyway. Yeah, they both are.
41:56
Yeah, you're right. Technically, they are different films. Yeah,
41:59
you can't really compare them. Apples to oranges.
42:01
Okay, we're going to wrap this one up. Thank you for listening.
42:05
And give us a shout if you want us to add anything on Halloween month,
42:09
first come, first serve.
42:10
And if you're enjoying plane month, as we've had fully planned for the last year.
42:17
Next up, Air Force One. Gee, will I give a Harrison Ford movie a pass?
42:22
Does Judith Chalmers have a passport?
42:25
People who grew up in the 80s in the UK will only get that joke.
42:30
Who the fuck is that Judith Charmers is a woman who used to present a holiday
42:33
program in the 1980s in the UK and so obviously she has a passport it's like
42:39
saying there's a burst shit in the woods essentially not everyone will get the joke I appreciate that,
42:43
and just on the sort of references of TV shows David Suchet was in an episode
42:49
of Doctor Who I just had to get that in thank you mic drop.
42:57
We're gonna have this one now feel free
43:00
to give us a shout at citizenframe underscore podcast on
43:03
instagram or of course on facebook or you
43:06
can even give us an email at citizenframe at outlook.com
43:10
if you want to send me a private email and you decide you just want to tear
43:15
into trevor bring it on feel free all emails are confidential and won't be passed
43:24
to him if you ask me not to i bet you steven seagull Stephen Seagull,
43:29
emails you Seagull I know but I call him Seagull because it's funnier you know,
43:35
he's going to kick your ass bring it on Mr. Seagull.
43:41
Music.