Latest / Books4Guys / How to Become a Better Writer and Never Stop Learning | Mandy Eve-Barnett

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How to Become a Better Writer and Never Stop Learning | Mandy Eve-Barnett · Books4Guys

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is uh it has been pretty surprising.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: When I started Books for Guys a few years ago, I had no idea how many individuals I would interview or meet from Canada.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it is uh it's probably 25% of our guest.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's very cool.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh I was from England initially, but I immigrated here, so yeah.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you've got the accent, but yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask, when so so when did you when did you migrate to Canada?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 2007.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, you've been there a while, but still you spent you spent quite a few years overseas before you came over here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I grew up in England, so that was sort of home, but now I've been here quite a long time.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a second home, so I'm like juggling, you know, this is what I know here, and that's what I know there.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all good.
• 1:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy with it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you travel back and forth sometimes?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or I do.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because once I start getting homesick, it's that I have to go.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've uh I've not lived that far away from my original home, but I have the same feelings.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm I'm going to visit home here in a couple weeks.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you you know when it's time, I guess I should say, when you need a refresh.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Mandy, I am so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I got introduced to you from a certain book, which I've got yeah on the website, but I've got you've written a lot of books.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I have, yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to leave anything out, but you have written, you've written a lot, and I and I want to dive into that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the the Commodore's Gift was the book I got introduced to you by.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, is that your latest book that's been published?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I didn't think so.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: This one is a steampunk.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But my newest one will come out in September.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So right around the corner.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right around the corner.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this podcast will be released around that time, so it'll be good timing for your new book.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: But well, how you've been writing for your whole life.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're involved in writing groups, you edit, you write.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: What tell me a little bit about your story.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just growing up, what what do did was your family, were they heavy readers and writers?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like what got you interested and so passionate about writing?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it I didn't start writing until I came to Canada.
• 2:52
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So 20 years.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: People think, hang on a minute, what happened before that?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I was I've always been creative.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever you can think of creative-wise, painting, sculpture, textiles, whatever you can think of is what I used to do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I came to Canada, the kids were older, didn't really need me all the time.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, I can do something creative.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the library, picked up all the leaflets for all the creative and crafty organizations in my area.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I'll go to one or two meetings and figure out the top clips.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it just happened that the writers group was meeting on the following Tuesday.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, first one, perfect.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I just got absorbed into the group and I've never left.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So who so you you go to this group and you've never, at that point, you've never published a book, you've never written anything that you think is worth, you know, putting out there.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: What about that group and the people there?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who and what inspired you to say, huh, I'm gonna give this a try?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the the group itself, the members are are very supportive, very helpful, very encouraging.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was brave enough to write a very, very short sort of two-paragraph piece, they accepted it, loved the twist, was shocked by the twist in it, which I think once you have an initial reaction to what you're writing, it gives you a buzz.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I like this.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So then I just went on this huge journey of writing every day and using lots of prompts, visual prompts, prompts and just learning the skill of it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And all the members of the group helped me with that, you know, saying, you know, if you change this or the sentence structure should do this.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just learned and I went to workshops and conferences and just so I could figure out, you know, how to have a beginning, middle end to a story.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was how I sort of engineered my my work.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now I mean people say, Well, you're a pantster, but I'm a free-flow writer because I like that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, yes, I have to plan some of my books, you know, that one of them um is a reincarnation romance, and I've got two time periods, so I had to make sure that the four past lives and the four current lives, you could figure out the character by what they did in each time period.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that had a lot of planning.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've got a crime trilogy that hasn't been published yet.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still working on it, but I had to work backwards from the last book to the first book because there's a timeline on a specific discovery of something.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have to work your way back, and then of course you've got each book has an arc, and then the whole trilogy's got an arc.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there was planning in that one.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But then, complete opposite of that, I wrote a fantasy book, and I th I thought, stand alone, love it, thank you very much.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got quite a few people saying, Where's the next one?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't a next one.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there has to be a next one.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, then so I wrote a next one just to keep everybody happy, and there's a character in those two books that I really love.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's the villain.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, she needs her own story, you know, how does she become what she became?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I I wrote her story, so then the fantasy standalone became a trilogy.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you can never I don't think you can say this is the end of a story because sometimes someone one of the characters will say I need more or we could do another journey.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And also Naridas are very strident in what they want.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when you when you start this though, are are you working a a job like as a as a different career, or are you able to just dive headfirst into this craft?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was working, I'm not now.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! And that that because you know you've got a house, family, and schools, you have to sort of make sure that your writing time is sort of concise um and effective.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I would sort of do everything that was needed of me and then shut myself away, leave me alone.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was curious about, just with all the responsibilities and things, how how were you able to find the time to get creative?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of creative thoughts come by doing other things, whether that be driving, brushing your teeth, cooking, you know, you have a thought and you're like, that's I need to write this down because this can be in the book.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But sitting down and and actually taking the time to really start typing and writing things out, you've got to be intentional about that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're busy, that's kind of hard to do sometimes.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it you know, people say, Well, what time of the day do you write?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I get five minutes.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because that that's the only way you can do it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't say, I'm going to plan an hour next Tuesday, or next Tuesday comes along, and it's like, I can't, because I'm doing such and such.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think I've got a time, even if it's like 15 minutes or it's half an hour, you know, and I mean when I used to take my son to soccer or my my youngest to gymnastics, I would be on my laptop, you know, writing while they did their thing.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always an opportunity to, you know, find somewhere or sometime to do your writing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the more you do it, the better you are.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, um, because I don't have the distraction of a TV, it helps a lot.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I but there's a lot of intentionality that you just said.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you you've got something you want to do, you'll you'll figure out some time, whether that be at soccer practice or or you know, doing something else, and maybe you only have 10 minutes.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're intentional with that 10 minutes, then you can get things, you can chip away, you can get things done that you want to.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when you well, I I I still want to stay kind of in this time frame of when you really started to write and and get interested, and it sounds like a a snowball happened where you were just like, I love this, I can't get enough of it.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back now at that time, could you have ever imagined the amount of work that you would have that you would have published at this point in your life if you look back over these last 20 years?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean it was never when I started writing, it never occurred to me to publish a book.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just enjoyed creating the story and you know, sharing it with the group.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: End of story for me.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was like done dusted.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then one one of the group actually has um a publishing company and they said, we could publish that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I go, I don't know about that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's a a leap of faith that you know that means that not just my circle is seeing it, but other people are seeing I don't know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I started really small with a a children's picture book.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit of text and a a bit of illustration, you know?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was my first inkling that you know that's what uh life was gonna be for me.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that it was a snowball effect, I suppose, like you say, because it it was like once I'd done it and I got reaction from people I didn't know, it was like, I'm really enjoying this, this is super cool, you know?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're still you're obviously like still you still love what you do because you're you're still writing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: But let me ask you this question, because I love to ask this because you kind of brought this up where you had you'd written a book, you thought that was the end of the story, but then you had people who have been following your work push you to write additional uh storylines, you know, to that original one.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you when you write, is it always an enjoyable process, or is sometimes there a responsibility aspect to it because you know people are expecting more?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have to put, you know, kind of pull that out of yourself a little bit sometimes to get a story out there, or is it as enjoyable now as it was when you first discovered it?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just enjoy it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite manic about it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we could say passionate about it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I just enjoy the fact that people will contact me and say, I really enjoyed this character.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: This character was really not my favourite.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've been good because I didn't want them to be your favourite.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have having a reaction to your words and how you've built a world or a character really sort of charges you forward because you're thinking, you know, I I've it's come out of my brain and I've given it to other people and they've enjoyed it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I mean I I I don't think I'd ever sort of say, right, I've done that, I'm don't do any because there's too many people in my head.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: When you're, you know, obviously like your books are getting noticed for awards and more and more and more people are reading them.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Does it get and again I've never written a book, so I don't know how this works.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning about the process of publishing and marketing, and I know there's a lot that goes into a book.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the writing part of it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: How much does that, how much time does that take and and how much has that changed since when you first started to now?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I know there's a lot of things that go into trying to get your book out there, but but how much time do you spend on those, you know, that that part of the process versus just being able to write, you know, which is the most enjoyable part?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think you you have to realise that once you've published a book, um, it becomes a product and the product needs to be marketed.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've I've got a lot of books, so I have to spend quite a lot of time you know highlighting them and going to readings and book fairs and other events.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So then that that does take time out of my writing, you know, time that I I think, well if I don't do that, then the the book will sort of disappear.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the moment obviously there's so many books out there.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then once you've got a following and a readership, it's better for you as an author, but also for the the books that are gonna follow that one.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So then you you can just tie it in and say, right, this book, you know, came out three years ago, um, and you'll find echoes of somebody in the book or an area in the book in my new book.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's always ways of sort of linking them together, you know, and I mean also your readership, you know, some of them like a certain genre, but some of them don't.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have to look at those people following you and what they will get out of the next book that you're writing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time and you you can't sort of just put it out the day it launched and then think that's enough because it doesn't work that way.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure as you build credibility and and people follow, it's a little bit easier for those folks to to pick up the next book.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm sure it's it's bittersweet in a way too.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure sometimes it feels like work, but I'm sure it's also enjoyable to go to these things and meet people who enjoy your work and have them tell you about it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a lot of it too, is like you said, you're putting it out there and you want people to enjoy it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You want people to have positive things to say, but you you you'll never hear that unless you go to these events and and be around these people.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure it's while it does take effort, I'm sure it's very rewarding when you when you get there and do a lot of the work that you need to.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I really love in-person events.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because then you've got like a one-on-one with someone that said, you know, this book was, you know, yada, whatever they they thought of the book.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's like, you know, I got your book out of the library and I loved it so much, I bought it, and they're gonna, yay! You know, so that that's another positive.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or they'll come and say, you know, I was waiting for your events to come up so I knew where you were, so I could get you to sign it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because not all everybody, you know, buys from me personally.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it can be anywhere.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it they just want it personalized, and that's super cool.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, they they sort of seek me out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're not stalking, but they're seeking me out.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's good.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's something that they'll cherish, and when they open that book or give it, you know, show someone else the something they can be proud of, that they met you, the person who put this work together that they enjoyed.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that does mean a lot, and I think that'd be very rewarding as an author.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mandy, do you have a book that's been a favorite of yours?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whether that be just you, you enjoyed creating the story, you thought the process of putting it on paper was the most enjoyable.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like is your most successful book your favorite one?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you have one that's your favorite and it it wasn't quite as as successful as what you thought it'd be?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what what how does that work?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like asking you if you've got a favorite child.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like some parents will probably answer that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, some of the characters I love more than others, I have to say.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: In my fantasy, I just loved the the villain Malgraf because she was super fun to write about, you know, because I thought, you know, I can go to my dark side and I can create this persona.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I had great fun with her.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: But definitely Awena in um The Commodore's gift, I love.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: She's very feisty, she's very determined, and she doesn't take any truck from anyone, you know.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: If they're trying to push her into you're a woman, she'll stand up for herself.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I really that's me, because I you know, I am a person, thank you, primarily.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So she she was fun to write because she guided me and said, you know, I'm more important, you know, this is my story.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I enjoyed her a lot.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Of of just your entire process, Mandy, of of becoming an author, you know, later than some, just just again, finding your passion organically.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really cool.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: What's something that you've been just most proud of of yourself o over these last 20 years of just your work?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's something you look back on and you're just like, I'm really glad I did this, or I'm really just proud of myself for accomplishing this?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh being, you know, constantly learning um and challenging myself, you know, to write a new genre or come up with something, you know, from the tiniest bit of an idea, like a piece of a dream or a trumpet or a news story, it could be anything.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've if I continue to challenge myself, it's gonna be a learning curve for as long as I'll, you know, breeding.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I found the the most important and the and the most enjoyable for me is that you know, I'll never learn everything, but I will try and learn as much as possible.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love that because I've actually been talking with a lot of people about exactly that re most recently, just talking about how staying curious, continuing to learn, and that's really what Books for Guys uh is built on is trying to get that personal development journey started, but also continuing it and just realizing like even if you know a lot, you don't know that much in the grand scheme of things.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things you can continue to get better at and learn more about and just advance your skill set and knowledge.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people that have that approach, like yourself, you just continue to find more and more success because of having that approach.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you think you've made it, all of a sudden you you you'll wake up and you're backwards and you're in a worse place.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what the heck happened?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you take that approach of, hey, I accomplished this, okay, what what else can I learn and what else can I do?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's just it that's how you maximize the short life that we have, and it and that's how you maximize just being just just being able to do do more than what you thought you could.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I love that approach of just being curious and continuously learning because I just don't think people can hear that message enough.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you find something that really captures your interest, um then you should really pursue it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what it is, I mean it's you know creativity comes in many guises, you know, and I think you know, once you find one, you should really pursue it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you find something you love, it's not like task-oriented, it's it's a joy to do.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Mandy, I I really just have one more question for you.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh it's it's a question I ask everyone who comes on this podcast because it's just it's more just book related that I love to share.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm always curious to know, and this can be a tough question, especially if you read a lot.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally, and what's a book that you love to recommend to other people.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm a Stephen King fanatic.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the first book I read of his was The Stand.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one book that is just the amount of characterisation and the whole world that he's built and the problem that they've got to solve and get through.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other one is um called Fernie by James Long, and it's a reincarnation love story.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I the first time I read it, I thought, I love this book.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I reread it probably once a year.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's become one of those books that you know, now I can read it, I can see the two characters in it, I can see exactly where they are, where they're walking, where they're living.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're real people to me now.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean I I read that goodness five, twenty-seven years ago.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it it's always it's almost like returning to family for me now, because they they're so real to me.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you find a book that captures your imagination and and and you really get to love the characters, then you you should keep it forever.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love asking that question, and I love hearing people mention books that they read more than once, because that that there's so many options out there.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are if you enjoy a book that much to take your time to go reread that versus a new one, I always love to know what those books are because those are the ones I typically add to my personal list.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, okay, if they if they read it twice or more, maybe that's the one I need to pick up and read myself.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I've really challenged myself, especially over the last 18 months, to read, you know, I I read a lot of non-fiction books, just personal growth, but I've really come to enjoy fiction as well.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just because it helps me escape and I can, you know, kind of like you with passion, like characters and just kind of get lost in different places.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good, especially nowadays.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're just so bombarded with responsibilities and just things that you got to focus on.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think fiction is a very important read for everyone.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: They should everyone should take a little time to just get lost.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't don't watch TV all the time, like get lost in a good fiction book.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love getting recommendations that I can add to my list now because I kind of go one to one.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'll switch back and forth so that I just I don't overload myself.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so Stephen King's a good one too.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's one of the best, and everyone, like it's one of the greatest of all times when it comes to I mean he he he it's just the way that he writes.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love how he writes.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, after I'd read The Stand, which was early 80s, I wrote to him to say, This book changed my life.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just could not believe how you created that world.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very fortunate because he wrote back.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that the letters um in my study framed, and that's my prize possession.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So no, if the house is going up in smoke, that's the first thing I'm grabbing.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never letting that go.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, nowadays I don't suppose he writes to people anymore.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, back then, I mean, I was very fortunate that he did, but um, I I just I followed him.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask if you ever got the chance to meet him, but I think getting a letter from him would mean even more than than having a moment.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: You've got something that'll last forever versus just moments.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is really, really cool.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: But no, well, Mandy, this has been so enjoyable of a conversation, and I really appreciate you taking the time to to come on our podcast.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to share your story and all your books with our audience.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I know there'll be several people that are interested in in purchasing and following your work.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so just keep doing what you're doing, keep staying curious, keep writing, and I can't wait to see all the work that you continue to put out there.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Been very enjoyable.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I will keep writing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something that's, you know, sitting there and why haven't you written me yet?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we appreciate it, Mandy.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.