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Transcript

The Mommy Vibes Of It All · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Carol Aired and Terrez Belovet are fan fiction ass names
0:08
Speaker 1: like as names, those are trying really hard, Like it
0:13
Speaker 1: feels like someone in the seventh grade wrote those names. Well,
0:17
Speaker 1: it also sounds like a mid century lesbian author came
0:22
Speaker 1: up with, which is what happened. I'm on a oh
0:31
Speaker 1: three now looking at Terres Carol fan fiction and let's see. Okay,
0:38
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give the virgins a little tutorial on how
0:41
Speaker 1: to use a three. So what I'm gonna do is
0:44
Speaker 1: I'm going to look only for completed works, and then
0:51
Speaker 1: I'm going to sort by kudos, and we'll see what
0:55
Speaker 1: the most popular Carol fan fiction is. Okay, is called
1:01
Speaker 1: better than fiction? It's by simply Sally. Okay. Here's some
1:06
Speaker 1: of the tags fluff, angst, first time lesbian sex, romance,
1:12
Speaker 1: slow burn, age difference, librarians, smut, religious conflict, alcohol abuse,
1:20
Speaker 1: the slash alcoholism. Okay. Here's the synopsis. Life is a
1:24
Speaker 1: librarian in rural Alabama, was driving Terrez Belavet slowly insane,
1:29
Speaker 1: and then a new family from Vermont moved into town
1:33
Speaker 1: and everything changed when she meets the sexy wife of
1:36
Speaker 1: the new paper mill manager, Sparks fly a song by
1:41
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. Also, here's the one where Carol is a
1:45
Speaker 1: doctor and Doctors without Borders. Not that. So today we're
1:51
Speaker 1: talking about Carol, the two thousand fifteen film starring Cape
1:56
Speaker 1: Blanchett and Rooney Mara, based on the novel The Price
2:00
Speaker 1: of Salt by Patricia high Smith UM, which is considered
2:04
Speaker 1: a you know, contemporary lesbian classic, a queer Christmas favorite, right,
2:10
Speaker 1: And we're going to be, you know, talking all about
2:14
Speaker 1: Carol um our first experiences with it. We're gonna be
2:18
Speaker 1: talking about lesbian's Christmas gloves, high speed chases, uh, and
2:23
Speaker 1: you know, maybe some of the other works of Patricia
2:26
Speaker 1: high Smith, because this is like a virgin the show
2:28
Speaker 1: where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rasdami
2:32
Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto. I think we have talked on
2:39
Speaker 1: this podcast before about whether or not we would eat
2:41
Speaker 1: human flesh, honestly multiple times, multiple times. Yeah, in case
2:46
Speaker 1: it hasn't made it to air. I don't think anyone
2:49
Speaker 1: will be surprised to find out that, yes, I would
2:52
Speaker 1: eat human flesh, and not only like would I hypothetically
2:56
Speaker 1: do it, like I would actively like to try. And
2:59
Speaker 1: that is why When I watched the first five minutes
3:04
Speaker 1: of the movie Bones and All, I was like, this
3:07
Speaker 1: is a movie written, are directed, produced, and concepted by
3:13
Speaker 1: Rose damn you like it was so yes, I actually
3:18
Speaker 1: wrote the y a novel and paid Luca Guardanino to
3:24
Speaker 1: adapt it. They didn't even have to option it. I
3:27
Speaker 1: just said, here, please take it. Um. Yeah, So so
3:31
Speaker 1: we've both seen Bones and All. I saw it last week.
3:34
Speaker 1: Um I I loved it. I know you would. So
3:39
Speaker 1: it's so its incredible, no pun intended. I knew that
3:42
Speaker 1: I would love it, and I was so happy to
3:44
Speaker 1: be proven right. It was such a beautiful movie. Like
3:50
Speaker 1: I I was gat and I was gagged. I thought
3:54
Speaker 1: it was so much fun, like NonStop fun on the
3:57
Speaker 1: world building level, like and you could hell that the
4:00
Speaker 1: source material was just like really sharp and fun like
4:04
Speaker 1: so just it's the basis is there's boymate's girl and
4:08
Speaker 1: there's like bisexual cannibal meets bisexual cannibal. Um, and that's
4:11
Speaker 1: what this story is. And in this world, which is
4:14
Speaker 1: in the eighties, UM, cannibals are a somewhat common, not
4:18
Speaker 1: common thing in society, and they're frequently you know, abandoned
4:23
Speaker 1: as kids and so they are like cannibals roaming around
4:27
Speaker 1: society that are kind of and they smell smell each
4:30
Speaker 1: other from far away, and they're all kind of feral. Right.
4:33
Speaker 1: There are a lot of specific things about this world
4:35
Speaker 1: of cannibal culture that was so cool, and that was
4:38
Speaker 1: just something that I really just from jump was sucked into. Yeah.
4:42
Speaker 1: And and the thing that I liked about the way
4:44
Speaker 1: that this world was set up was that it was
4:45
Speaker 1: a matter of fact and like you learned things as
4:48
Speaker 1: the character learned things. So the main characters this girl
4:53
Speaker 1: who like all her life she's lived with her dad
4:56
Speaker 1: and they've gone from town to town as she has
4:59
Speaker 1: killed and mauld people. And once she turns eighteen, he,
5:03
Speaker 1: you know, like abandons her for good with some information
5:06
Speaker 1: about her family. And Taylor Russell, I think, plays her
5:10
Speaker 1: with this really incredible frankness, like she's naive but in
5:16
Speaker 1: a way where she is very like curious, and I
5:20
Speaker 1: love how matter of fact she is and how she's
5:24
Speaker 1: like obviously it's in these like really intense circumstances, but
5:28
Speaker 1: like makes them very believable and very grounded. And I
5:32
Speaker 1: just thought like she gave such an incredible performance, especially
5:36
Speaker 1: alongside Timothy, who you know, plays this this cannibal who
5:40
Speaker 1: she meets on the road and they fall in love.
5:42
Speaker 1: And I had been wondering, like, would Timothy's start power
5:47
Speaker 1: be like kind of distracting, But I actually felt that
5:50
Speaker 1: it was very additive to the movie because you had
5:54
Speaker 1: to have someone with that much charisma in that role
5:58
Speaker 1: to understand like how they would be drawn to each other.
6:01
Speaker 1: And I think like the Timothy shallowmin of it all
6:04
Speaker 1: worked really well in that I loved Timmy. I really
6:08
Speaker 1: loved that also. So just to your point about Taylor Russell,
6:12
Speaker 1: like I think, yeah, the the naivete of her character
6:14
Speaker 1: was balanced well with the fact that she's a survivor,
6:17
Speaker 1: right like this, this, this whole movie is a story
6:19
Speaker 1: about survival and isolation, like societal isolation and what you
6:23
Speaker 1: do with it when it's out of your control, Like
6:27
Speaker 1: what do you do with the hands that you're dealt
6:28
Speaker 1: like the finger off exactly, you bite the finger off.
6:31
Speaker 1: And you know, this character is accountable, that you know
6:33
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily want to be accountable, and Timote and other
6:37
Speaker 1: you know, forces in in the movie are kind of
6:40
Speaker 1: convincing her that you know, girl, this is who you
6:43
Speaker 1: are so why don't you lean in and figure out
6:44
Speaker 1: what you do like about it, how you can take
6:48
Speaker 1: a bite exactly. So on Timmy, I will say, obviously,
6:52
Speaker 1: this movie can't exist without Timmy was perfect, added the
6:57
Speaker 1: realism and the natural realism that marries with Luca Guardardino's
7:03
Speaker 1: style on a really really cool, like fantastical premise that said,
7:11
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I I really don't like being I
7:14
Speaker 1: don't like doing this. I don't like but and yet
7:15
Speaker 1: you do it over and over again and yeah, and
7:19
Speaker 1: yet you bring it to us every ball. I think
7:21
Speaker 1: Taylor Russell is a movie star uncontested Lee and I
7:24
Speaker 1: think she I would watch her in so many other things.
7:27
Speaker 1: I think that next to Timmy, her performance felt a
7:32
Speaker 1: little to y A because what Timmy gave to me
7:37
Speaker 1: was not why A. It was like pure realism. But
7:42
Speaker 1: I felt like the way the movie was written, like
7:45
Speaker 1: specifically the dialogue was extremely why A and I. You know,
7:50
Speaker 1: we were texting after and I was like I felt
7:52
Speaker 1: a little way and you were like, well, it was
7:54
Speaker 1: based on a y A book girl, and I was like, oh,
7:58
Speaker 1: like I can of course, like I can tell like
8:00
Speaker 1: that is like rich on the page, and so And
8:02
Speaker 1: this doesn't mean that I disliked the movie, but I
8:05
Speaker 1: just I was like I wanted it to either be
8:09
Speaker 1: y A or complete and total realism. And I I
8:14
Speaker 1: did think that Taylor's performance felt a little weak next
8:17
Speaker 1: to Timm's because like he could sell the dialogue more
8:22
Speaker 1: than but when she was selling it, she was selling
8:24
Speaker 1: it like with this kind of upbeat like y Anus
8:30
Speaker 1: is like all I can mustard like that what to
8:32
Speaker 1: to describe her about? I was still like, I don't know,
8:35
Speaker 1: I wonder if what you're seeing is that she was
8:37
Speaker 1: playing a teenager, because she was, and like I I
8:42
Speaker 1: just honestly like, I guess I get what you're trying
8:47
Speaker 1: to say. But I thought that that all worked really
8:50
Speaker 1: well in the context like of the movie. And I
8:54
Speaker 1: really felt like she and Timothy especially but everyone were
8:59
Speaker 1: all in the a movie, which I think sometimes doesn't
9:02
Speaker 1: happen um like in films that are this massive, not
9:06
Speaker 1: just because like the awards of it all, but like
9:08
Speaker 1: the movie star and like you know, the like atur director.
9:12
Speaker 1: But I like believed their love story. And I also
9:16
Speaker 1: believed even more than that in her journey. I was too,
9:22
Speaker 1: because the thing is she's the the protagonist, Timmy, does
9:25
Speaker 1: not come in for quite a while into the movie,
9:28
Speaker 1: which I appreciate it. I thought it was really cool,
9:30
Speaker 1: and so that's why I felt like Timmy's like performance
9:34
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it felt unintentional. It felt like
9:37
Speaker 1: it unintentionally disrupted the genre that we they were in
9:41
Speaker 1: um and so I personally think that they were not
9:43
Speaker 1: in the same movie, but I do think that they
9:45
Speaker 1: both brought something to the romance that was essential and
9:48
Speaker 1: definitely believable. So I don't feel at any point like
9:52
Speaker 1: the premise or like what they were doing was unbelievable
9:56
Speaker 1: because I was just honestly having so much fun still, Like,
9:58
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, but I think there's a
10:00
Speaker 1: difference between y A and something that is about teenagers,
10:05
Speaker 1: and I actually thought this might agree. I totally thought
10:07
Speaker 1: this film did a really good job of telling a
10:09
Speaker 1: story that was about teenagers, but like in a way
10:12
Speaker 1: and like from an adult's perspective and not like, yes,
10:16
Speaker 1: it was a coming of age story, but it didn't
10:19
Speaker 1: feel um like juvenile. Yeah, it really was about the
10:25
Speaker 1: dialogue For me, like I felt like dialogue had been
10:28
Speaker 1: lifted from the books because it was clunky. It was
10:33
Speaker 1: over a nunciitive. It was a lot of telling instead
10:36
Speaker 1: of showing. It was full sentences instead of like things
10:41
Speaker 1: that would be naturalistic kind of like fragments, Like I
10:46
Speaker 1: would never have felt like it was to y A
10:49
Speaker 1: if Timmy wasn't in the film, right, Like, I think
10:51
Speaker 1: Taylor brought exactly what the film needed, and then Timmy
10:54
Speaker 1: just brought in a different energy and then I was
10:56
Speaker 1: just like, okay that it just it just like felt
10:59
Speaker 1: different to me, like and I didn't under I didn't
11:02
Speaker 1: buy their chemistry a hundred percent of the time. But
11:05
Speaker 1: like it's that that's not it's not really Taylor, It's
11:08
Speaker 1: not really either there there's faults. Like that's to me,
11:11
Speaker 1: a directing issue, and that's at the end of the day.
11:14
Speaker 1: I think like some of the cinema was beautiful, All
11:19
Speaker 1: the production was beautiful, it's just simply on that element
11:22
Speaker 1: of the direction. I like, I noticed so many of
11:25
Speaker 1: these little like stylistic flourishes um that I really recognized
11:31
Speaker 1: from Suspiria, which is the last film that that Luca
11:34
Speaker 1: Guadnina made, and I just think he has such a
11:37
Speaker 1: clear vision that he's really able to turn towards each
11:43
Speaker 1: of these different worlds. If you look at the past
11:46
Speaker 1: three movies he's made like very different subject matters, but
11:50
Speaker 1: like still like this very consistent gaze and point of view.
11:55
Speaker 1: I also loved the score, which was done by Um
11:59
Speaker 1: Trent Restner of Nine Inch Nails and Atticus Ross. And
12:02
Speaker 1: you know, they've done a bunch of film scores at
12:05
Speaker 1: this point. One of them. Oh I didn't know that.
12:06
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Yeah, I'm speaking of music. I've been
12:09
Speaker 1: listening to the new Waste Blood album a lot. And
12:13
Speaker 1: she's a girl who I have not really been that
12:16
Speaker 1: much into, but you have really been singing her praises
12:20
Speaker 1: for a while. I think. I remember when we went
12:23
Speaker 1: to Joshua Tree last year. You were playing her a lot. Yeah.
12:28
Speaker 1: We were on Vaca and I was like, oh, like
12:30
Speaker 1: we were cooking, I think, and I was like, oh,
12:32
Speaker 1: I want to put on this album that we were
12:34
Speaker 1: that I was talking about, UM, which was Titanic Rising
12:37
Speaker 1: and that album is for the Virgins, so fucking good. UM.
12:42
Speaker 1: But her new album, Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
12:44
Speaker 1: I loved it too. It was so beauty. It's very pretty.
12:47
Speaker 1: It's you know, I do think it's like sliding into
12:51
Speaker 1: this space that I mean kind of a lot of music.
12:55
Speaker 1: Like it's how I received it at first, which is
12:57
Speaker 1: where it takes a while for me to really figure
13:00
Speaker 1: out what are the standout songs for me, and it
13:03
Speaker 1: all just kind of like blends together. And I think
13:05
Speaker 1: the dream equality of her voice sort of exacerbates that. Um,
13:10
Speaker 1: But now that I've spent more time with it, like,
13:12
Speaker 1: there are some songs that are really standing out to me,
13:14
Speaker 1: Like God turned me into a flower so beautiful, um,
13:19
Speaker 1: hearts to glow. But she like she really does sound
13:23
Speaker 1: so much like Joni Mitchell with like a little Nico
13:27
Speaker 1: thrown in, But it's insane. Nico's such a good comp
13:32
Speaker 1: I had never thought of that. Yeah, she has this
13:35
Speaker 1: kind of like she has one of those artists where
13:37
Speaker 1: her vocal, her very her vocal specificity is what anchors
13:41
Speaker 1: the music right and yeah, I for the versions. I
13:44
Speaker 1: feel like she's like wise what is very like Karen Carpenter,
13:47
Speaker 1: if like she had an electric keyboard and electronic keyboard
13:50
Speaker 1: and like saying about depressive relationships and like being anxious
13:53
Speaker 1: at heart. Total Like Carpentry is a really good comparison.
13:58
Speaker 1: I think it was. This is something that's really cool
14:00
Speaker 1: about her Rose like she was, she grew up like
14:03
Speaker 1: very evangelical Christian and so a lot of like her.
14:07
Speaker 1: A lot a lot of her music is like inspired
14:10
Speaker 1: by church music and inspired by kind of religious fanaticism.
14:16
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, I honestly think that, like
14:20
Speaker 1: with Wise Blood and definitely with Ethel Kaine, like I
14:23
Speaker 1: kind of fall in love with the story of them
14:26
Speaker 1: as much as I fall in love with the music,
14:28
Speaker 1: because I do love seeing the references and when you
14:31
Speaker 1: hear the references so clearly in the music, like I
14:34
Speaker 1: don't know, it just like makes me feel so I
14:36
Speaker 1: just like love seeing like the brain on the track,
14:40
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's so gorgeous. I love UM.
14:43
Speaker 1: Speaking of brains and other body parts. You were telling
14:47
Speaker 1: me over text that you have started watching the new
14:51
Speaker 1: UM Netflix Wednesday show, Yes, which I can't remember if
14:58
Speaker 1: you if you watch it early for work or some
15:00
Speaker 1: thing or that. I watched it like a month ago,
15:03
Speaker 1: and okay, I had a great time watching it. I
15:05
Speaker 1: think it's so fun. Yeah, I I honestly I had
15:10
Speaker 1: really low expectations. I'm not gonna lie, like, following our
15:13
Speaker 1: Tim Burton episode and and thinking about just like, um,
15:18
Speaker 1: what the things that we come to expect from Netflix shows.
15:21
Speaker 1: I really loved the series right away, like such a
15:26
Speaker 1: pleasant surprise to me. Um, it was very like we
15:30
Speaker 1: need to fill the gap that Sabrina left. Like I
15:33
Speaker 1: felt that hard, but like I'm not mad at it,
15:36
Speaker 1: you know, Like and and Jenna Ortega, who plays Wednesday,
15:39
Speaker 1: is a marvel. Like she's so, she's a star. She's
15:45
Speaker 1: been great and everything that she's done, and it kind
15:48
Speaker 1: of has taken up until this point to find the
15:51
Speaker 1: right vehicle to truly I think unleash her star power
15:55
Speaker 1: because she's done a lot of supporting roles. She's been
15:58
Speaker 1: in a lot of netflixings. Um, she was in X
16:02
Speaker 1: earlier this year, and she she was in the screen
16:06
Speaker 1: movie as well, the Scream Races. She plays the most
16:09
Speaker 1: annoying character in You. She does It's like but again,
16:14
Speaker 1: now she found her vehicle. She just has it. She
16:17
Speaker 1: is perfect at the dead pan Wednesday thing, those like
16:22
Speaker 1: little moments of like um, you know levity, like the
16:27
Speaker 1: sort of like smirk she does. She the dance scene
16:34
Speaker 1: like was so done scene. I think no spoilers for
16:39
Speaker 1: the virgins. It was thus I think there's a lot
16:42
Speaker 1: of the dance. I think there's a lot of young
16:44
Speaker 1: actors especially who would do a role like this and
16:47
Speaker 1: would be sort of rolling their eyes the whole time
16:51
Speaker 1: and like like like l O L can you believe
16:55
Speaker 1: I'm doing this? But she's just like so committed to
16:59
Speaker 1: it that it works and the and like I really
17:05
Speaker 1: appreciate that because like, yes, Wednesday is a character who
17:09
Speaker 1: is like, you know, like the prototypical like um, you
17:14
Speaker 1: know golf girl. Um, she's you know, the black print
17:19
Speaker 1: for lydia diets and and like all the other like sad,
17:23
Speaker 1: angry golf girls who like have guillotines. Um. But she
17:28
Speaker 1: just like really she she is the has to be
17:31
Speaker 1: the straight man in her own show and just like
17:34
Speaker 1: does it so well. That's such a good way of
17:37
Speaker 1: putting it. Like she is someone who's just kind of
17:40
Speaker 1: like bearing witness to like the idiocy around her. Like
17:43
Speaker 1: for if if you haven't watched it yet, like The Virgins,
17:47
Speaker 1: like it's very it's she is the protagonist and her
17:50
Speaker 1: family like isn't in the movie as much as she is,
17:54
Speaker 1: you know, basically starting life at a new academy called Nevermore.
17:57
Speaker 1: It's it's very Monster High meets like Daria, right, it's
18:01
Speaker 1: like murderous Daria, you know, like and and I loved that.
18:05
Speaker 1: And I thought that, like, whoever concept of this, because
18:08
Speaker 1: it wasn't Tim Burton, whoever like concept of the show
18:11
Speaker 1: like understood the like the the contemporary relevance of a
18:17
Speaker 1: character like Wednesday, who has has had like jokes about
18:21
Speaker 1: like anti colonization, like back in like the nineties and
18:24
Speaker 1: early odds, right, like there were things about this character
18:27
Speaker 1: that were like against the world and against the oppressive
18:30
Speaker 1: forces of the world. And you know, the Adams family
18:33
Speaker 1: was a Latin family, even though that didn't really come
18:36
Speaker 1: through in a lot of the iterations of the franchise
18:39
Speaker 1: and was only present in I think the after the cartoon,
18:43
Speaker 1: right is like when they were like, oh, yeah, I
18:45
Speaker 1: guess his first name is Gomez, so like, I guess
18:47
Speaker 1: he's Latin, right, Like, you know, I was reading a
18:49
Speaker 1: little bit about like the history of Um Adam's family
18:52
Speaker 1: and how um when John Aston, the original Gomez Um
18:58
Speaker 1: was cast, they were like, yeah, you need to like
19:00
Speaker 1: lean into like the Latin lover energy of the portrayal
19:03
Speaker 1: or whatever, which is obviously very cringe now, but it
19:05
Speaker 1: was like it just like, you know, there were no
19:08
Speaker 1: Latin characters on screen at all, and so to have
19:11
Speaker 1: um an adaptation that sees like the relevance and also
19:16
Speaker 1: just like how effortless all of that has folded into
19:19
Speaker 1: the world. It was. So it's so fun. It is
19:22
Speaker 1: it is, It's very fun. It's dark, it leans into
19:26
Speaker 1: the darkness. It really doesn't like pull punches because it
19:30
Speaker 1: is a show ostensibly for and about teens. Um. I
19:35
Speaker 1: loved that Christina Ricci was in it. You know, Christina
19:38
Speaker 1: Ricci played Day in the nineties films. Um, and she
19:42
Speaker 1: was so fun in it, and um, yeah, I just
19:46
Speaker 1: had had a good time. Catherine data Jones was Slade
19:49
Speaker 1: when she was on screen. Um. You know, there are
19:53
Speaker 1: some questions I have about the the world and that
19:57
Speaker 1: like I don't think we're like answered as satisfactorily maybe
20:01
Speaker 1: as they could be, But um, I like I would
20:04
Speaker 1: definitely watch the season two. No, I mean honestly, I
20:08
Speaker 1: think that like Riverdale is a camp for this show
20:11
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of twists and turns where
20:15
Speaker 1: if you're a teen or preteen watching this, you're not
20:18
Speaker 1: you don't care about like the kind of like the
20:21
Speaker 1: logistical or believable, the believability of the emotional stakes of
20:26
Speaker 1: these characters when they are sometimes a little thin, but
20:29
Speaker 1: you're because it's so drama and because it's so like
20:33
Speaker 1: such a juicy and eccentric teen show. Like I don't know,
20:37
Speaker 1: I I do have fun watching it, even when I'm
20:39
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is like a teen show, you know,
20:41
Speaker 1: speaking of reboots. Um I I did try to watch Disenchanted.
20:51
Speaker 1: Try I Ryan, Ryan and I watched thirty minutes of
20:56
Speaker 1: it and had to turn it off. Wait wait, can
21:01
Speaker 1: you explain to the virgins actually like the cultural importance
21:04
Speaker 1: of this moment, because like you two are very like
21:06
Speaker 1: Amy Adams, so you love the original Enchanted, So like
21:09
Speaker 1: what happened? What? What was that? That's what happened? Just
21:13
Speaker 1: like I couldn't do it. I didn't want to. I'm shook.
21:18
Speaker 1: So you're never going to watch the other half of that.
21:20
Speaker 1: I'll probably not half thirty minutes because we were watching
21:24
Speaker 1: it and then paused it to eat and we were like, Okay,
21:27
Speaker 1: it's got to be halfway over now, and that's when
21:28
Speaker 1: we realized we were only a third of it. We
21:32
Speaker 1: realized we were only like a quarter of the way
21:34
Speaker 1: in and we were like, Nope, given up. I'm sure
21:38
Speaker 1: I'll go back and finish it at some point, but
21:41
Speaker 1: I'm not like in a rush to watch it, to
21:44
Speaker 1: be honest, Like it was better than hocus Pocus too,
21:48
Speaker 1: but it did make me feel the same way. I know,
21:52
Speaker 1: it made me feel the same way, Like it made
21:54
Speaker 1: me feel like they were trying to make the magic
21:56
Speaker 1: happen twice instead of finding something that's like really interesting
22:01
Speaker 1: about this world and like reinvigorating it. Um, I don't.
22:05
Speaker 1: Just from from what I saw, it was just lacking
22:08
Speaker 1: what was so perfect about the original besides that it
22:11
Speaker 1: was like amazing and like the music was great and
22:14
Speaker 1: all this stuff. The original Enchanted is met a commentary
22:20
Speaker 1: on Disney movies, and like, from what I watched, this
22:24
Speaker 1: was not doing any of that. And that's one of
22:26
Speaker 1: the reasons why I Enchanted works so well. It's like
22:28
Speaker 1: maybe the main reason why Enchanted works so well, honestly,
22:31
Speaker 1: we and can we talk about that because it's so true,
22:34
Speaker 1: like the original Enchanted was a subversion of Disney's core
22:38
Speaker 1: principles in like perfection and ideally poking fun in itself. Yes,
22:42
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was ingenious, like, it was
22:45
Speaker 1: so crazy to watch if you're a Disney hallic because
22:50
Speaker 1: it's ripping open all of these you know, things that
22:53
Speaker 1: we don't really allow, that we don't usually see in
22:56
Speaker 1: Disney movies. And so yeah, I agree. I don't think
22:59
Speaker 1: that the next movie was The second movie was amazing.
23:01
Speaker 1: Can I rattle off just like a few observations because
23:04
Speaker 1: I did finish the movie. Um, I felt that Amy
23:09
Speaker 1: Adams had not aged a day. I did not see
23:12
Speaker 1: a single pore on her skin. I'm not going to
23:17
Speaker 1: I thought she looked incredible. I don't know where Disney
23:20
Speaker 1: is getting all of these bad child actors. They're all
23:23
Speaker 1: so so hard to listen to, and then they have
23:27
Speaker 1: to anchor so many scenes and I'm like, are you
23:29
Speaker 1: talking about the daughter? Yes, that's the daughter from Enchanted.
23:35
Speaker 1: It's the same actress. Why why didn't they just pick
23:38
Speaker 1: a new girl? Why did they do that? Did they
23:40
Speaker 1: really do that? Oh my god? I had no idea.
23:44
Speaker 1: Um okay. I also just I um the movie. So
23:49
Speaker 1: do you do you get to like the twitt the
23:52
Speaker 1: kind of twist where you know she'd be where? Okay,
23:56
Speaker 1: So Amy Adams basically makes herself the wicked stepmother and
23:59
Speaker 1: creates world around like very wan Division esque, like has
24:03
Speaker 1: a spell that makes the world of this suburbia enchanted,
24:06
Speaker 1: like fantasy is now on Earth in her suburb and
24:10
Speaker 1: so she is like this wicked stepmother that goes up
24:13
Speaker 1: against Maya Rudolph who was like the evil queen of
24:17
Speaker 1: the world. But Rose she does not sell wicked step
24:23
Speaker 1: mom at all, like it is and and it's so
24:27
Speaker 1: disappointing because I actually think Amy is good enough to
24:30
Speaker 1: do that, but like she is, she's not believable at
24:34
Speaker 1: all at what should be a really fun and engaging
24:37
Speaker 1: like like twist of her character, like she can't be evil.
24:41
Speaker 1: And I was so sad that she didn't, like Stick
24:44
Speaker 1: the Landing. When you do watch it, i'd be curious.
24:47
Speaker 1: I mean you, I feel like you would probably feel
24:49
Speaker 1: the same way. Um, but yeah, And then honestly, my
24:54
Speaker 1: last thing that like I think also you would have
24:56
Speaker 1: the same critique is that there of course as a
24:58
Speaker 1: sequence where they go back into the like the animated
25:00
Speaker 1: world of like enchanted, and the animation style is trash
25:06
Speaker 1: Mama like it is like so ugly. It's giving like
25:10
Speaker 1: like millennial like medical ad like like cartoonific and I
25:16
Speaker 1: got immediately. So this is another unusual one where I, um,
25:40
Speaker 1: it kind of took me a while to see Carol.
25:42
Speaker 1: I I did not watch it until Christmas, God bless,
25:49
Speaker 1: I would definitely was aware of it. I just never,
25:53
Speaker 1: you know, got around to seeing it and then realized
25:56
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a glaring omission and watch didn't
26:00
Speaker 1: I mean obviously immediately fell in love. Um, not just
26:05
Speaker 1: a glaring omission in the consumption of the cannon, but
26:08
Speaker 1: you're cannon like. It's such a you movie, you know
26:11
Speaker 1: what I mean? Um? And I guess, well, when did
26:15
Speaker 1: you did you see it when it first came out?
26:17
Speaker 1: Did you see the theater? Definitely, I'm pretty sure I
26:21
Speaker 1: saw it. I did not see it in theater, so
26:23
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that would have been really nice to
26:26
Speaker 1: see in theaters. It is a movie that feels like
26:28
Speaker 1: a movie. Is I wonder if Cinispia will do a
26:31
Speaker 1: Carol Christmas screen. Of course went back from to l
26:34
Speaker 1: A for that, honestly after so I rewatched for the episode,
26:38
Speaker 1: and I do feel like it's now something I have
26:41
Speaker 1: to watch every year. It is it is. It is
26:44
Speaker 1: one of the Christmas movies. So for any virgins who
26:48
Speaker 1: haven't seen Carol Um. It is the story of terrez Belavette,
26:53
Speaker 1: who is a you know, part time seasonal employee at
26:56
Speaker 1: the department store in nineteen use New York City, and
27:02
Speaker 1: one day she waits on Carol Aired, who is a
27:06
Speaker 1: wealthy suburban housewife, and there's instantly a spark between the
27:11
Speaker 1: two of them. Carol leaves her gloves um in the
27:16
Speaker 1: children's toy department. Who should say if it was on
27:19
Speaker 1: purpose or an accident, yes, where she's been buying a
27:23
Speaker 1: gift for her daughter Lyndy, a train set. And let
27:26
Speaker 1: me tell well, she was looking for a doll. It's
27:28
Speaker 1: so funny the dynamics. Yeah, well that's honestly, Like Carol
27:34
Speaker 1: is literally walking into the store and her kind of
27:36
Speaker 1: vibe is like, my daughter wants a fucking doll. I
27:39
Speaker 1: don't really know why she wants a doll. It's this
27:41
Speaker 1: very specific doll. I don't care. And then and then
27:45
Speaker 1: she's like she's like this fucking kid, Yeah, this fucking kid.
27:48
Speaker 1: And then of course this like hot young thing. Like
27:51
Speaker 1: it's like, actually, when I was young, I wanted a
27:53
Speaker 1: train set, and Carol clock set, I was like, I'll
28:00
Speaker 1: take one loaded up in the car, She's like, you
28:03
Speaker 1: say a train? Did you say a train? Because there's
28:06
Speaker 1: actually nothing more, you know, nothing gayer than a train
28:08
Speaker 1: than a train set. Then then not just like it's
28:11
Speaker 1: not about the train, it's not about transportation, it's about
28:14
Speaker 1: like creating the train set, like you are actually the
28:18
Speaker 1: arbiter and constructor of the whole ass train set. And
28:22
Speaker 1: that actually was the spark between them. Phoebe is losing
28:27
Speaker 1: it in the booth right now, is so deep. So
28:31
Speaker 1: as the story goes on, so Carol leaves her gloves
28:33
Speaker 1: and terres who's um. You know, imagination and sexuality have
28:38
Speaker 1: been you know, peaked by this older woman, sends her
28:42
Speaker 1: her gloves back, and and Carol invites her out to
28:46
Speaker 1: the suburbs in Connecticut. I believe that's where she lives,
28:49
Speaker 1: doesn't one of those um and they have you know,
28:53
Speaker 1: just a very like girls being girls, like night listening
28:57
Speaker 1: to records by the fire, smoking cigarette. Yes, their first
29:01
Speaker 1: encounters are I wouldn't say platonic, but they don't make
29:06
Speaker 1: physical advances on each other, you know. So they go out.
29:10
Speaker 1: They eat cream spinach, cream spinach with a poached egg,
29:14
Speaker 1: which honestly disgusting, but like also sounds really good. Can
29:19
Speaker 1: you imagine bottoming after eating cream spinach and like a
29:24
Speaker 1: jammy egg? Like I would be worried that's not something. Well,
29:29
Speaker 1: I don't well, I don't know that they're having butt sex.
29:33
Speaker 1: You are. I love how you forclosed on the kind
29:36
Speaker 1: of like sexual proclivities of but I think you're but
29:40
Speaker 1: I think yours. You're thinking of their sex life through
29:43
Speaker 1: the lens of a person who has sex with their
29:45
Speaker 1: but they and you're grafting your sexuality onto these two,
29:50
Speaker 1: which I do know. Sis, women, I don't know what
29:53
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't I have no, I don't
29:55
Speaker 1: think you're really I don't. I don't know if you're
29:57
Speaker 1: onto something. But the let's just say, you know, things
30:01
Speaker 1: get romantic. Things are also complicated because Carol is in
30:05
Speaker 1: a you know, sort of tumultuous divorce with her ex.
30:09
Speaker 1: Hard and Carolyn Tourez decide to kind of run away
30:13
Speaker 1: together on this road trip. They are pursued by a
30:16
Speaker 1: private detective. There's lots of intrigue. It's very twisty, yeah
30:22
Speaker 1: and sexy, and they and I think when thinking about
30:25
Speaker 1: kind of the cultural impact or maybe just like general
30:28
Speaker 1: sentiment about the movie when it came out, Like it's
30:31
Speaker 1: so funny, Like Carol really does replicate all the troops
30:35
Speaker 1: we've seen before and a kind of gay romance drama
30:38
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Right, Like it back to
30:41
Speaker 1: our discussion on My Policeman, Like there's like a woman
30:45
Speaker 1: who has a straight partner, right, and she has to
30:47
Speaker 1: reconcile that in order to you know, chase her you know,
30:50
Speaker 1: desire or whatever. But like, their performances are so good
30:56
Speaker 1: and the movie is so good, and the tension is
30:58
Speaker 1: so expertly built, like you're not even mad that they're
31:02
Speaker 1: not fucking for like most of the movie, because I
31:05
Speaker 1: think the anticipation is like pristine. Like, yeah, I think
31:09
Speaker 1: it's a little different though, because even though, um, you know,
31:14
Speaker 1: the the hetero society is an obstacle to their love,
31:18
Speaker 1: it's not really an internal obstacle. Like Terres knows right
31:23
Speaker 1: away that she wants Carol, and Carol has experienced with women,
31:28
Speaker 1: as we see with her friends Abby played by Sarah Paulson,
31:31
Speaker 1: who is also an ex of hers. I mean, hello,
31:34
Speaker 1: the lesbians, they're still friends. Um I left the I
31:38
Speaker 1: got my eye on this red headline. Um, but I
31:43
Speaker 1: I agree Yeah, it's it's different, and I think a
31:46
Speaker 1: lot of it also has to do with the fact
31:47
Speaker 1: that this movie champions the romance, like it's not about
31:53
Speaker 1: the all the moving parts, like obviously it's very melodramatic,
31:57
Speaker 1: but blanches and the fact that it is more of
32:01
Speaker 1: a romance is kind of a deviation from the source material.
32:05
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever read The Price of Salt,
32:08
Speaker 1: did you? I read it after I watched the movie.
32:11
Speaker 1: I was on a Patricia Highsmith kick, and The Price
32:16
Speaker 1: of Salt is much more well, I mean, if you read,
32:19
Speaker 1: if you've read any Patricia Highsmith is what comes as
32:22
Speaker 1: a surprise that The Price of Salt is much more
32:25
Speaker 1: of a thriller, because that's what Patricia Highsmith did as
32:28
Speaker 1: she wrote thrillers. And it's much more about them being
32:34
Speaker 1: on the run from the detective at the end than
32:37
Speaker 1: it is about I would say, like the movie is
32:41
Speaker 1: much more the weight is on the beginning of their
32:44
Speaker 1: love story and like the romance of it, and then
32:47
Speaker 1: that all is kind of like a sort of third
32:50
Speaker 1: act thing with the detective happens. It's like the climax, Yes,
32:55
Speaker 1: And I would say that is kind of half of
32:58
Speaker 1: the Price of Salt is all this stuff with Harge
33:01
Speaker 1: and Way. But the thing is that it's still they
33:05
Speaker 1: both have very hopeful endings, you know. And it actually
33:09
Speaker 1: the ending is even more clearly hopeful in the novel
33:14
Speaker 1: than it It's more explicitly like a happy ending in
33:17
Speaker 1: the novel than it is in the book. Do you
33:19
Speaker 1: remember how it goes down? Yeah, it's with it ends
33:23
Speaker 1: with them, you know, like getting back together. But it's
33:26
Speaker 1: with this with the movie. It's a little kind of
33:28
Speaker 1: like like they both feel weird about it. They're both
33:32
Speaker 1: you know, have it feels like Rooney Mara has like
33:36
Speaker 1: it has hang ups about getting back into Carol's you
33:39
Speaker 1: know grasp again. Yeah, I mean, it it ends with
33:42
Speaker 1: with the possibility that they could reconcile because they are
33:47
Speaker 1: in the same place once again, whereas in the novel
33:50
Speaker 1: it's like more definitively that they are going to get
33:53
Speaker 1: back together. Yeah. Okay, wait, so do you think do
33:57
Speaker 1: you consider yourself a Carol or a Tress. You're a Carol.
34:03
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol. Yeah, You're a Carol, right, because you're
34:06
Speaker 1: the one that likes to strut end and be like
34:08
Speaker 1: this is how it's going to happen. Yeah, I would
34:10
Speaker 1: say I'm I'm the mom in the relationship because this
34:14
Speaker 1: the milf energy in this movie is unparalleled on real Okay,
34:20
Speaker 1: when every time she wears the pairs of every time
34:23
Speaker 1: she wears the pair of sunglasses over the looks. Looks
34:27
Speaker 1: in this movie are out of this world into the
34:32
Speaker 1: stratosphere everything. I want every item of clothing that both
34:38
Speaker 1: of them wear, and this is there's something also about
34:42
Speaker 1: movies that take place in this era, and Carol specifically.
34:45
Speaker 1: I was also thinking about this with like leak of
34:47
Speaker 1: their own smoking is so sexy. Smoking. We need to
34:53
Speaker 1: bring back cigarettes. Everybody smoking needs to be brought You could, honestly,
34:59
Speaker 1: if you could smoke just without the smell, I would
35:03
Speaker 1: be smoking a pack of Day serious. Thank God, It's
35:08
Speaker 1: so chic except when you smell, especially when they used
35:15
Speaker 1: to smoke indoors. God, do you remember the era when
35:18
Speaker 1: we could smoke at restaurants? Why we I mean we
35:20
Speaker 1: were children were children. But there was there was a
35:24
Speaker 1: a Nathan's Slash like rob something rotisserie chicken restaurant in
35:32
Speaker 1: my neighborhood growing up where there was a smoking section
35:36
Speaker 1: in it. I there was also a diner in Illinois
35:40
Speaker 1: that I used to wait, I need to find out
35:42
Speaker 1: what it's. And when I first started going to bars
35:45
Speaker 1: when I was in high school and like sneaking into
35:48
Speaker 1: gay bars you were you could smoke in there. There
35:51
Speaker 1: was this like open late diner in my suburb um
35:55
Speaker 1: in Illinois called Beef and Brandy at a mob smoker section.
36:03
Speaker 1: I remember sounds like a place that Carol would take
36:06
Speaker 1: Tret and Brandy. Honestly, is a really good restaurant name
36:10
Speaker 1: Beef and Brandy? Is it? Yeah? I think it's because
36:13
Speaker 1: like a franchise, Brandy goes with Beef. And also probably
36:18
Speaker 1: it's like a I feel like in in this kind
36:21
Speaker 1: of like a in this uh dichotomy, I think Carol
36:25
Speaker 1: is the Brandy. Okay, so um you Siety answered that
36:30
Speaker 1: I'm a Carol because are you a Carol or Terres?
36:34
Speaker 1: I'm a Terres. I would like I wish I was
36:37
Speaker 1: a Carol, but no, I play defense. But also, okay, actually,
36:42
Speaker 1: here's what I think. The dynamic of this podcast is
36:45
Speaker 1: your Terres, Phoebees, Carol, and I'm Sarah paul is a
36:50
Speaker 1: smoking gun. Sarah Paulson, I think that's it. I'm not
37:13
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I actually can definitely own up to being
37:16
Speaker 1: a Rooney Mara type, like I really play I cannot
37:21
Speaker 1: tell when people are hitting on me. I absolutely play dumb.
37:24
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how entranced I am, Like, all I
37:27
Speaker 1: can do is saying how enchanted you are, and was
37:30
Speaker 1: enchanting to me. I love Rooney Mara, and honestly, we
37:37
Speaker 1: were promised a Rooney Marra career that we did not get,
37:42
Speaker 1: and this kind of this her being in this movie,
37:45
Speaker 1: I believe is a direct consequence of that, and so
37:49
Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. But she was poised to be
37:54
Speaker 1: such a gigantic movie star when The Girl with the
37:57
Speaker 1: Dragon Tattoo came out, because that was set up to
38:00
Speaker 1: be this phenomenon and it never took off quite the
38:08
Speaker 1: way that I think people expected it too, because of
38:10
Speaker 1: what a sensation the book was. But I am obsessed
38:15
Speaker 1: with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and for me,
38:18
Speaker 1: like Carol, it is an annual Christmas watch. The Girl
38:21
Speaker 1: with the Dragon Tattoo is a Christmas movie shot it is.
38:26
Speaker 1: She's so Wintery's excellent in that movie. She was nominated, right,
38:30
Speaker 1: she was nominated for an Oscar so she okay, and
38:33
Speaker 1: the press the lead up to that movie, when she
38:37
Speaker 1: she and Daniel Craig did so many shoots in character.
38:43
Speaker 1: There's one where like she's he's like giving her a
38:46
Speaker 1: tattoo or he's giving one of them, I don't know.
38:50
Speaker 1: And the movie, uh no, they did a bunch of
38:52
Speaker 1: photo shoots like where character she was given a tattoo
38:57
Speaker 1: and like she was naked in these photo shoots. I
38:59
Speaker 1: mean it. I was so obsessed with the haircuts she
39:02
Speaker 1: got for the movie with like the Little Baby Bang,
39:05
Speaker 1: and she's so sexy in that and the way they
39:08
Speaker 1: fucking it and oh, she was so good. And I
39:10
Speaker 1: do think that if that movie had been more of
39:12
Speaker 1: a hit, she would have been a movie star in
39:15
Speaker 1: a different way than she is now, and she might
39:18
Speaker 1: never have done Carol. So I guess I'm kind of
39:21
Speaker 1: glad that The Girl with the Dragonta too low key flopped. Yeah.
39:25
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it flopped. I thought it was
39:27
Speaker 1: like such a I mean, she's so fucking good in
39:30
Speaker 1: that movie. Um well, there was there were never any
39:32
Speaker 1: sequel because it wasn't super financially successful. Oh I wonder also,
39:37
Speaker 1: if like her playing tigerl littly in that Peter Pan
39:40
Speaker 1: movie also played a part in Like Her, Like Her
39:44
Speaker 1: Like kind of flopped them as an actress. Unfortunately, I
39:47
Speaker 1: don't because of Hollywood being the way it is, I
39:50
Speaker 1: don't think that negatively impacted her career, even though it
39:53
Speaker 1: should have. But something that should be said about Rooney
39:56
Speaker 1: was that she was chasing an oscar for like many
40:00
Speaker 1: consecutive years, and there were like, you know, rumors about
40:03
Speaker 1: I can't remember which one she lost for, but she
40:06
Speaker 1: lost one of her in one of her oscar races.
40:08
Speaker 1: She lost, and she reportedly like was like in the bathroom,
40:11
Speaker 1: like crying and me, what about an oscar? I would
40:16
Speaker 1: know I would be upset, but I wouldn't be in
40:18
Speaker 1: the bathroom in the bathroom. And I'm not demonizing her
40:23
Speaker 1: for that, I'm just providing context for the Virgins. Um.
40:25
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I was reading about
40:28
Speaker 1: was that, um, she you know, there's a lot of
40:31
Speaker 1: unfairness and how people decide what is the best supporting
40:35
Speaker 1: actress or best lead actress, and that she was best
40:38
Speaker 1: supporting in this role. But she's like on screen for
40:43
Speaker 1: more of the movie than Kate Blanchet is. Yeah, but
40:46
Speaker 1: the movie is called Carol, Yes, and it's also Kate
40:49
Speaker 1: fucking Blanchet, like of course she's going to suck the
40:51
Speaker 1: air out of the room anytime, any other you know
40:53
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like obviously they're they're mirrored performances. I
40:56
Speaker 1: think they're both equally talented and incredible. But I know
41:00
Speaker 1: that there was also saltinus about how um, you know,
41:04
Speaker 1: best supporting was decided, and I wonder if there was
41:08
Speaker 1: like drama there. That stuff is all bullshit anyway. Um
41:12
Speaker 1: Todd Haynes, who directed this film, you know, has made
41:16
Speaker 1: a lot of other very gay kind of movies. I
41:21
Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of his films, But when I
41:23
Speaker 1: was a teenager, I was obsessed with Velvet gold Mine.
41:27
Speaker 1: Have you seen it? No, I've never even heard of it.
41:29
Speaker 1: It's um Christian Bale, you and McGregor and Jonathan riz Myers,
41:36
Speaker 1: the guy from the Tutors, And it's sort of like
41:39
Speaker 1: a Bowie. It's like about these rock stars who are
41:43
Speaker 1: sort of like based on Bowie. It's super gay. There's
41:46
Speaker 1: like full frontal male nudity, a love full frontal man
41:51
Speaker 1: so good is Have you seen Far from Heaven? I
41:54
Speaker 1: have not. I haven't either that's when Julianne Moore flex
41:57
Speaker 1: her son. Though, right, that snooze to me, but it's
42:01
Speaker 1: one of it's one. I've gone back to our incest
42:04
Speaker 1: conversation from the Born episode. We might have edited that, doubt. Um. No,
42:10
Speaker 1: Far from Heaven is one of multiple movies where Julianne
42:12
Speaker 1: Moore fox her son. Yeah, one of multiple yes, yes,
42:17
Speaker 1: and far from Him and she also plays um. She
42:20
Speaker 1: also sucks her son in Savage Grace with Eddie Red.
42:23
Speaker 1: I think it's Eddie Red when she was sucking her son.
42:25
Speaker 1: I don't know, because she likes to play complex female
42:28
Speaker 1: characters their son, yes, why not? Why not? It's complex.
42:33
Speaker 1: But I haven't seen either of these incest um dramas,
42:37
Speaker 1: but I would like to do that. That's those the
42:39
Speaker 1: types of film that Todd Hands makes, dramas. I don't
42:43
Speaker 1: know if I would categorize them like that. There's going
42:46
Speaker 1: to say more more incests dramas, representation. No, I'm just kidding.
42:55
Speaker 1: I'm just the season. Okay, okay, okay, So back to
42:59
Speaker 1: play with your son's load. I'm dying, okay. You know
43:07
Speaker 1: I used to you know, I used to um when
43:09
Speaker 1: I was a party producer. I used to throw an
43:12
Speaker 1: annual Christmas party called Dick the Balls, not Dick the
43:16
Speaker 1: Ball the balls. That's the lowest hanging fruit, if you
43:20
Speaker 1: know what I know. That was the whole point, the
43:24
Speaker 1: whole point shut up. Um. Something that's interesting in this
43:30
Speaker 1: movie specifically, and I guess in the book even though
43:32
Speaker 1: I hadn't read the book, is the kind of power
43:35
Speaker 1: a very common power dynamic we see in queer relationships,
43:38
Speaker 1: maybe specifically lesbian relationships. And I kept thinking about Tar
43:43
Speaker 1: when I was watching it, and like, how the edge
43:47
Speaker 1: gap of it all, the mommy vibes of it all. Yeah,
43:51
Speaker 1: And it's funny to watch two knowing that like Kate
43:54
Speaker 1: is like day, Like I think we all at this
43:57
Speaker 1: point know that, Like Kate blanche is like kind of
43:59
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa style, Like yes, I think that's like an
44:04
Speaker 1: industry secret. You know she keeps playing lesbian. Yes, yes,
44:08
Speaker 1: because she can do that. She's Kate Blanchet. She's literally
44:11
Speaker 1: one of the most famous people on the planet. She
44:13
Speaker 1: can do whatever she wants without talking about her sexuality,
44:16
Speaker 1: which someone did ask her about her sexuality once in
44:19
Speaker 1: the Carol Press junket and she said very quickly that
44:24
Speaker 1: she has had many relationships with women, but apparent she
44:28
Speaker 1: claims that that quote was taken out of context and
44:30
Speaker 1: she said, oh, you mean sexual relationships none. Maybe if
44:36
Speaker 1: we get Kate an oscar for TAR, maybe she'll come
44:39
Speaker 1: out and her well, what did it take for Jodie
44:41
Speaker 1: Foster to come out? She got like a GLAD like
44:43
Speaker 1: an HRC award or whatever, like what was it? We don't.
44:48
Speaker 1: I don't want Kate to ever attend a GLAD Awards
44:52
Speaker 1: or an HRC benefit. Keep her far away. Kate is
44:56
Speaker 1: too high profile for that ship. That is kind of
44:59
Speaker 1: unfortunately that although I would love if we want a
45:01
Speaker 1: GLAD Awards. So if you're listening, we're open to it.
45:04
Speaker 1: We will appear, Okay, we can confirm appearance. Um. I
45:11
Speaker 1: do think actually though that like PR people, I mean
45:15
Speaker 1: you would not used to work im Neflix not to
45:17
Speaker 1: say that, but to say that, like a lot of
45:19
Speaker 1: people that work on PR teams from major celebrities are
45:22
Speaker 1: saying that, they're saying like this person is actually too
45:25
Speaker 1: big for queer media, queer awards, queer things like that's
45:29
Speaker 1: too limiting, and you know, to it the extent unfortunately,
45:32
Speaker 1: Like I mean, but you kind of like true almost
45:35
Speaker 1: like we used to bear media has not been legitimized
45:39
Speaker 1: in this media escape, so of course, like a listers
45:43
Speaker 1: don't want to go for it totally. You know, we
45:46
Speaker 1: as people who used to be queer journalists, Like you know,
45:51
Speaker 1: like if you go to one major film junket and
45:55
Speaker 1: you see that, like as someone from a queer outlet,
45:59
Speaker 1: and you see the position that you're in that day
46:02
Speaker 1: to interview the celebrities, you get a very clear idea
46:07
Speaker 1: of where you are in the pecking order. Or sometimes
46:10
Speaker 1: like when you're on a press line on a red carpet,
46:13
Speaker 1: if you're like the last person at the end of
46:16
Speaker 1: the line, like when you're from a queer outlet, that's
46:19
Speaker 1: how it always happened. Oh yeah. And also just like
46:22
Speaker 1: don't try it like at a junket, like you're not
46:24
Speaker 1: gonna go in with the spicy question, like you'll get caught.
46:28
Speaker 1: I did, right, but like mostly I made a career
46:32
Speaker 1: out of it. But your questions weren't that spicy. They
46:35
Speaker 1: were kind of fun, they were produced spicy. I told
46:37
Speaker 1: Timothy Shallowby that I was going to bring him a
46:40
Speaker 1: peach and that I would have eaten his come out
46:43
Speaker 1: of it and call me by your name. You didn't
46:44
Speaker 1: say that, I implied it. He knew what I was saying.
46:50
Speaker 1: He was picking up what I was putting down. And
46:53
Speaker 1: you know what, he loved it. And he gave me
46:54
Speaker 1: a hug afterwards, and then he gave me another hug
46:56
Speaker 1: when he saw me downstairs. He was stunning. Love did
47:01
Speaker 1: not love it so much. But that's another story for
47:04
Speaker 1: another time. I just watched Kate play at lesbian every
47:21
Speaker 1: damn time, Like, I think she's done it. I think
47:24
Speaker 1: she's done it more than just Tar and Carolva now
47:27
Speaker 1: I can't remember well. Also Oceans eight, it's very obvious
47:31
Speaker 1: that she and Sandy Bullock kind of thing. It's almost
47:36
Speaker 1: feels like Kate kind of has like she could walk
47:39
Speaker 1: into a room and have like sexual chemistry with this
47:42
Speaker 1: lamp shade, you know what I mean. But only of
47:44
Speaker 1: the lamp shade identified as a woman. Yeah, but that
47:49
Speaker 1: is the power of Kate, like the power of Kate.
47:52
Speaker 1: She's she's the lad. Yeah, it's so funny, like because
47:57
Speaker 1: Gladril was my entry point indicate not to make this
48:00
Speaker 1: a Kate episode, but it is kind of a k episode. Carol,
48:03
Speaker 1: she's Carol Um Gladual was my entry point to Kate,
48:08
Speaker 1: and Gladriel, to me, is altogether perfectly um encapsulates what
48:14
Speaker 1: a Kate Blanchet role should be and at the same yes,
48:19
Speaker 1: and at the same time, I think Gladriel is like
48:21
Speaker 1: way different from all of her other roles too, because
48:24
Speaker 1: it's so genre. Um. Well, I guess there's like the
48:27
Speaker 1: Thor movie, but I don't. I don't, I don't consider
48:30
Speaker 1: I don't think about the form. Yeah, I actually I
48:34
Speaker 1: revisited Thora Ragnarok somewhat recently, and I don't think it's
48:39
Speaker 1: actually very good, and I think she's not great in it.
48:43
Speaker 1: I liked the movie as something that broke open Thor
48:48
Speaker 1: and made it fun and roller coasterly to watch. I like, Ta,
48:52
Speaker 1: You're not as manjor fan, hated Kate's character, hated the
48:56
Speaker 1: c G. I I mean she was c G. I
48:58
Speaker 1: for like the movie anyway, it's like but I do
49:01
Speaker 1: like that one image that came out of it of
49:04
Speaker 1: Kate standing next to taka um okay, so back to
49:09
Speaker 1: the power dynamics and the age gap of it all.
49:12
Speaker 1: I feel like this has become such a huge part
49:16
Speaker 1: of Internet discourse, specifically with gen Z the like prudish
49:24
Speaker 1: hand ringing about age gaps in relationships. Why, like why
49:30
Speaker 1: are gen z such prudes? Like why are they boomers?
49:36
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, like I've seen they are. I've seen
49:42
Speaker 1: TikTok's where where gen z are like talking about how
49:46
Speaker 1: it's disgusting that like a twenty two year old is
49:49
Speaker 1: in a relationship with like a thirty four year old
49:53
Speaker 1: Like what, yeah, no, it's it's silly, it's it's to me.
49:57
Speaker 1: It's just like group think, right, the all on TikTok.
50:00
Speaker 1: They're all consuming the same ideas, Like every generation is
50:03
Speaker 1: done a version of this where we all decide to
50:07
Speaker 1: commit to one obscenely bad idea and our belief system,
50:11
Speaker 1: and like, I think this is just one of those things.
50:13
Speaker 1: And you know, like I guess that there's nuance in
50:15
Speaker 1: age gaps and power dynamics and that like, of course
50:19
Speaker 1: those things should be acknowledged. But when everyone is you know,
50:23
Speaker 1: legal and above the age of consent, it's why it's
50:27
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of it's like the same
50:29
Speaker 1: thing as the queer bating thing like stay out of
50:32
Speaker 1: people's relationships. Yeah, I think honestly, the way to think
50:36
Speaker 1: about it is like obviously, like age place, legal has
50:41
Speaker 1: like legal constraints and like how we talk about relationships
50:45
Speaker 1: or whatever. But like, at the end of the day,
50:47
Speaker 1: the ethical framework for like age gap relationships is all
50:50
Speaker 1: about power, And you can have an abusive power dynamic
50:54
Speaker 1: and an age gap relationship that is perfectly legal, you
50:58
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not about like whether like
51:01
Speaker 1: how young the person is or how old the person is.
51:03
Speaker 1: It's about like what is the makeup of this relationship
51:07
Speaker 1: and is it healthy for both parties? Are they both
51:09
Speaker 1: consenting to it right? And like in Carol, they're clearly
51:12
Speaker 1: concerning to it. But I wonder if there was ever
51:14
Speaker 1: like a grooming conversation or something. I don't know, I'm sure,
51:19
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's there's like gen Z kids watching Carol
51:23
Speaker 1: now and like Carol groomed to rest, like shut the
51:27
Speaker 1: funk up. Yeah, probably. I I honestly feel like, um,
51:31
Speaker 1: there wasn't. I feel like no one problematized Carol, Like
51:35
Speaker 1: there was no I don't remember any sort of controversy,
51:37
Speaker 1: Like no one was complaining that there were the stray
51:40
Speaker 1: actors and queer roles, you know what I mean. Another
51:43
Speaker 1: thing I fully don't care about anymore. Yeah, I kind of.
51:47
Speaker 1: I care a lot about like sis actors and trans roles. Yes,
51:51
Speaker 1: that that's different because that that has real world consequences
51:56
Speaker 1: because as anyone who you know has watched Disclosure knows
52:02
Speaker 1: um that that trans women being portrayed by men in
52:06
Speaker 1: movies perpetuates the idea that trans women are men and
52:11
Speaker 1: women's clothing, which leads to real world violence being enacted
52:14
Speaker 1: on trans women. So that has real world consequences. But
52:19
Speaker 1: a straight actor planning a gay character has no real
52:23
Speaker 1: world impact outside of more straight actors getting cast as
52:28
Speaker 1: gayer characters, Like there's no consequence to it, like I
52:32
Speaker 1: simply don't care about it, like I Yes, I think
52:35
Speaker 1: it would be great if there was a there were
52:39
Speaker 1: more equal opportunity for gay actors to both play gay
52:44
Speaker 1: characters and straight characters. I wish there wasn't an industry
52:48
Speaker 1: bias that shut gay actors out from playing straight characters,
52:55
Speaker 1: or shut gay actors out from, if they do play
53:00
Speaker 1: a gay role, from doing anything besides playing gay. I
53:04
Speaker 1: think that's something that you see more often when actors
53:09
Speaker 1: talk about that, they talk about the ways in which
53:11
Speaker 1: they are pigeonholed. But I like I just fully don't
53:15
Speaker 1: care about it anymore. To me, the fallacy in thinking
53:21
Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter, you know, what orientation this person
53:25
Speaker 1: is is like mostly it mostly depends on whether or
53:28
Speaker 1: not this person is a good actor, because Cape Blanchett
53:32
Speaker 1: of course can carry this role and stick the landing.
53:35
Speaker 1: This because I feel like we've talked about this before,
53:37
Speaker 1: but like, to me, a lot of what it comes
53:39
Speaker 1: down to it was like do you stick the landing?
53:41
Speaker 1: And like that's why no one. I mean people kind
53:44
Speaker 1: of complained about calling by your name, but like faggots
53:46
Speaker 1: love that movie because they're well, I mean, I don't
53:49
Speaker 1: think Army Hammer is actually that great, but to me,
53:50
Speaker 1: the Timothy is so good in it that you have
53:53
Speaker 1: no choice but to love the film. And so to me, like,
53:57
Speaker 1: I think that I get frustrated when straight actors are
54:01
Speaker 1: in queer roles and they're also like not great actors.
54:04
Speaker 1: And if I don't see like the nuances of of
54:07
Speaker 1: what you want to see in like a queer character,
54:10
Speaker 1: then I think that, yeah, it should be problematizes, you know,
54:13
Speaker 1: like I think that should be kind of the metric
54:15
Speaker 1: is like is this contributing something good or bad to
54:19
Speaker 1: like our canon at the end of the day, like
54:21
Speaker 1: is it a good story? Like that is the thing
54:24
Speaker 1: that I care about the most, Like is it a
54:26
Speaker 1: good story? But what do you mean good by like interesting?
54:29
Speaker 1: Or are you like a moral good? No? No? No?
54:32
Speaker 1: Was it executed well? Like was it Carol? Was it
54:36
Speaker 1: called me by your name? That? Yeah? Um, it's funny
54:39
Speaker 1: though also just like maybe seguing out of this, like, um,
54:43
Speaker 1: Cape Bunchet was like asked about this, I think again
54:45
Speaker 1: during her like Tar Junket or whatever, and she you know,
54:49
Speaker 1: was talking about how she thinks that like it's important. Well,
54:52
Speaker 1: I'll just read the quote. She says, I think it's
54:53
Speaker 1: important on a society level, you know, to to like
54:56
Speaker 1: talk about queer stuff or whatever and homogeneity in any
54:59
Speaker 1: art arm as death. But she kind of goes on
55:02
Speaker 1: to say that like anything we make like doesn't need
55:05
Speaker 1: to be political politicized, right, Like it's not her job
55:10
Speaker 1: to politicize the art. It's like the audience's job to
55:14
Speaker 1: interpret it however they want or whatever. And you know,
55:18
Speaker 1: there's also like this moment where she says, like someone
55:21
Speaker 1: asks her about like the sexuality of Tar, she goes, oh,
55:24
Speaker 1: I didn't think about the character of sexuality at all,
55:27
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I mean, I was like,
55:30
Speaker 1: well you you you you had you had to do something.
55:34
Speaker 1: I mean it that I think that Kate is like
55:37
Speaker 1: a brilliant person. Like everything she said in like her
55:41
Speaker 1: kind of answer to this totally made sense. And I
55:43
Speaker 1: was like, work, d Evin, like you know what you're
55:44
Speaker 1: talking about, when she was like, I don't really, I
55:46
Speaker 1: didn't think about the sexuality all. I was like, it's
55:49
Speaker 1: very like I don't see color, you know, like it's
55:53
Speaker 1: kind of giving the same vibe, even those those are
55:55
Speaker 1: obviously very different like frameworks. But I don't know. I
55:59
Speaker 1: was just like, come on, like, why do actors keep
56:01
Speaker 1: doing this like we're like human beings that have sex. Well,
56:06
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it rests on the fact
56:08
Speaker 1: that we expect actors to like say really profound things
56:12
Speaker 1: in interviews, and their actors they're not necessarily like particularly
56:17
Speaker 1: smart or you know, interesting, they're like usually like attractive
56:22
Speaker 1: and can act. Yeah, oh god, which is kind of
56:29
Speaker 1: all I need from them. Yeah. Um, have you ever
56:32
Speaker 1: been in a relationship where that had an age gap? Um? Yes, well,
56:38
Speaker 1: you know, my a lot of my very early sexual
56:41
Speaker 1: experiences when I was still a teenager were with older men.
56:45
Speaker 1: And then when I was first in college, Yeah, I
56:48
Speaker 1: was very into older you know, kind of like daddy types. Yeah,
56:54
Speaker 1: I mean I was seventeen, like fucking people I shouldn't maybe,
57:02
Speaker 1: but the consensual that's more about them, and I wanted
57:05
Speaker 1: it so badly. I um, I I would love to
57:10
Speaker 1: be with the daddy type. I would love to be
57:12
Speaker 1: with a mean mommy type. Actually, like I would love
57:15
Speaker 1: any sort of like power. I would love like an
57:17
Speaker 1: older but I've only I've dated. My age gap relationships
57:20
Speaker 1: are like dating someone who's like five years younger than
57:23
Speaker 1: me or whatever, And it's so it's it's so when
57:27
Speaker 1: it's funny because like age guests don't matter as much
57:31
Speaker 1: when like your past your thirties. I feel like I
57:36
Speaker 1: definitely have kind of a hard line. And this is
57:39
Speaker 1: like where my words about you know, uh, like prudish
57:44
Speaker 1: handwringing over age gaps does come back to bite me
57:46
Speaker 1: in the ass a little bit because I don't necessarily
57:51
Speaker 1: see like a problem with it. But I also would
57:54
Speaker 1: not want to date or even really fuck someone younger
57:59
Speaker 1: than like five, just because I don't know what I
58:02
Speaker 1: would talk to them about. Right, No, I'm saying when
58:04
Speaker 1: they're both past their thirties, which I think is that
58:07
Speaker 1: the case of Carol, because isn't I think young? Okay,
58:14
Speaker 1: yeah that yeah, yeah, that's the vibe. Um. Anyways, my point,
58:18
Speaker 1: My point is like it's just interesting how we create
58:21
Speaker 1: like weird kind of like islms about like what's good
58:25
Speaker 1: and bad based on something that is actually like pretty arbitrary.
58:29
Speaker 1: My early sexual experiences, I was baby and then uh
58:34
Speaker 1: now I'm usually more mommy. Um, but I don't really
58:39
Speaker 1: want to be mommy. I don't want like, I don't
58:42
Speaker 1: want to take I like the idea of like taking
58:45
Speaker 1: care of someone in a way, um you know, like
58:50
Speaker 1: I love a twin. I love a twin, but um no,
58:54
Speaker 1: I mean someone who I truly have like a generational
58:57
Speaker 1: divide with. I don't know that it's gonna work. Let
59:01
Speaker 1: me tell you. That's what I was experiencing. I was
59:03
Speaker 1: dating someone who was gen z and it was like
59:06
Speaker 1: it was bad. It was I mean, it wasn't It
59:09
Speaker 1: was loving. There was a lot of love and like
59:11
Speaker 1: this person was very mature beyond their years. But it
59:14
Speaker 1: was at the end of the day, I was like,
59:15
Speaker 1: this is a generational to flood and I actually don't
59:19
Speaker 1: have anything with you with in common with you, um,
59:22
Speaker 1: but I am always mean mommy, Rose. Like literally in
59:27
Speaker 1: every single age cap relationship I've ever been, and I've
59:30
Speaker 1: been in quite a few, I'm always mean mommy, and
59:33
Speaker 1: I do need to be needed. Like I love taking
59:36
Speaker 1: care of people, but like I would love to be
59:39
Speaker 1: taking care of Rose. I would love I would love
59:41
Speaker 1: to be the Rooney Mara. I see you don't think
59:44
Speaker 1: you say that in theory, but I don't know if
59:46
Speaker 1: you would be able to accept that kind of care.
59:49
Speaker 1: I think I think from the right partner I would.
59:51
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you're It's true. I do have a
59:53
Speaker 1: hard time asking for help or accepting help a lot
59:57
Speaker 1: of the time. But I still you need to work
1:00:00
Speaker 1: on that. I do. I do need to work on that.
1:00:01
Speaker 1: We gotta get you into therapy. I so virgins slide
1:00:14
Speaker 1: into our d M s at like a virgin for
1:00:17
Speaker 1: on Instagram and tell us are you a Carol? Are
1:00:20
Speaker 1: you a terres? Would you use a leather glove if
1:00:23
Speaker 1: you were fisting someone? We want to know. I'm your
1:00:27
Speaker 1: co host, Rose damn you. You can find me anywhere
1:00:30
Speaker 1: online at Rose Damn You and I'm Franterata. You can
1:00:34
Speaker 1: find me at friends, squish co, anywhere you like, subscribe
1:00:37
Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, Leave
1:00:40
Speaker 1: us a rating on Spotify for a review on Apple
1:00:44
Speaker 1: podcast We appreciate it so much. Like a Virgin is
1:00:47
Speaker 1: an I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
1:00:51
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch
1:00:55
Speaker 1: and Nikki Etour