Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / China's Crackdown On Crypto Continues

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China's Crackdown On Crypto Continues · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
0:04
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
0:06
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
0:11
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
0:15
Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
0:18
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, I want to
0:21
Speaker 1: go over to John wu. He is the president of
0:24
Speaker 1: Ava Labs. We talked to him before about the crypto world,
0:28
Speaker 1: and John is great to have you back on this morning. Um,
0:32
Speaker 1: we were almost caught off guard by a p d
0:35
Speaker 1: o C headline saying that all bitcoin, all crypto transactions
0:40
Speaker 1: in China will henceforth be considered illegal. What exactly does
0:45
Speaker 1: that mean? Everything having to do with crypto except for
0:48
Speaker 1: just holding it is against the law, Hi, Paulhaim Matt.
0:52
Speaker 1: So it is not clear how they define transactions, and
0:57
Speaker 1: a lot of this is actually left as a signal
1:01
Speaker 1: so that people realize that they don't like this stuff
1:04
Speaker 1: and that you should be wary as opposed to having
1:07
Speaker 1: specifics out. But really this is nothing new from what
1:10
Speaker 1: they've been doing all year in terms of what they
1:12
Speaker 1: were doing with technology and um what they've done in
1:15
Speaker 1: crypto Basically in thirteen they restricted banks from handling bitcoin,
1:21
Speaker 1: seventeen they banned exchanges. Nineteen and twenty they were even
1:25
Speaker 1: the same thing to bitcoin mining. What they are against
1:29
Speaker 1: is basically losing control of their monetary system and worried
1:34
Speaker 1: about capital flight. All right, John, how should we really
1:38
Speaker 1: step back and think about this here? Uh? Anytime China,
1:43
Speaker 1: you know, makes a move, it has global repercussions. What
1:48
Speaker 1: do you think I know we have a lot of
1:49
Speaker 1: time to really ponder this, but what do you think
1:52
Speaker 1: this means for just the crypto space in general? If
1:56
Speaker 1: China is going to be perhaps way more restricted than
1:59
Speaker 1: we thought, there's a lot of resilience in the crypto space.
2:04
Speaker 1: When they were banning China was banning mining UM in
2:08
Speaker 1: nineteen and two thousand twenty, their mining in China was
2:12
Speaker 1: about seventy s the global mining for bitcoin it is
2:16
Speaker 1: down to but nothing is slowed down because a lot
2:20
Speaker 1: of that is now in West Texas. So the US
2:23
Speaker 1: we have benefited from some of their authoritative actions, if
2:27
Speaker 1: you will, and even locally, individual China nationalists have found
2:32
Speaker 1: ways to ultimately be involved in the space whether as
2:36
Speaker 1: a developer or as an investor in various uh you
2:41
Speaker 1: know tokens. They've all of every resilient users and developers
2:45
Speaker 1: and miners ultimately find some way to do it properly
2:50
Speaker 1: and hopefully we in the US can continue to benefit
2:54
Speaker 1: from their harsh rules. What is the problem? I mean,
2:58
Speaker 1: are they concerned that too many people are going to
3:01
Speaker 1: speculate and may um, you know, lose their savings. Are
3:05
Speaker 1: the concerned that wealthy people are going to use crypto
3:09
Speaker 1: to move assets out of the country. Why is China
3:12
Speaker 1: so veriantly anti anti bitcoin, anti crypto? So that's the
3:18
Speaker 1: last point is correct in my opinion, they're worried about
3:21
Speaker 1: capital flight. Don't forget they actually love the technology there.
3:25
Speaker 1: I mean, people forget there is a Chinese central bank
3:29
Speaker 1: back digital you want that, There are CBD you know wallets,
3:34
Speaker 1: central bank wallets that they have air drop and distributed
3:37
Speaker 1: the digital you want to individuals. They love the technology.
3:42
Speaker 1: They are just against loose and control of the monitoring
3:44
Speaker 1: system and giving up too much freedom. Well, I mean, Johnny,
3:49
Speaker 1: are you should chinying to be concerned that they will
3:51
Speaker 1: lose their ability if they're not really part of the
3:54
Speaker 1: crypto market, they might lose their positioning in there. They
3:58
Speaker 1: should and we should, um. And this is why you know,
4:02
Speaker 1: decentralization is so powerful in this world of blockchain and crypto. Investors, developers,
4:11
Speaker 1: users are all able to find a way to continue
4:14
Speaker 1: to grow the ecosystem and the ecosystems at the point
4:17
Speaker 1: now where it's not just about capital in the sense
4:21
Speaker 1: of bitcoin, the way China is looking at bitcoin and
4:24
Speaker 1: as a possible digital flight mechanism or store value or
4:28
Speaker 1: medium exchange. There's actually real utility now, utility in terms
4:32
Speaker 1: of a decentralized finance system. I've been on talking to
4:35
Speaker 1: you guys about n f t s and it's utilization
4:38
Speaker 1: of not just cryptal native people, but also traditional people, artists, entertainers,
4:44
Speaker 1: and financial services professionals. Interesting, all right, John, It was
4:47
Speaker 1: great to get you on. Here are lots of news
4:49
Speaker 1: shaping this space right now. John Wu, President of Ava
4:52
Speaker 1: Labs based in New York. We have been talking a
4:59
Speaker 1: little bit about the infrastructure build, the possibility that that
5:02
Speaker 1: gets past or maybe watered down a little bit. Let's
5:05
Speaker 1: bring in someone who um relies on knowledge of this
5:10
Speaker 1: for his living. Josh Diets, a senior portfolio manager over
5:13
Speaker 1: at Aberdeen Standard Investments and he is specifically the manager
5:18
Speaker 1: of the Aberdeen Standard Global Infrastructure Income Fund. So, Josh,
5:23
Speaker 1: what do you know about where we stand in regards
5:26
Speaker 1: to Biden's spending plans. It seems like right now, um,
5:32
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of discussions take place next week
5:34
Speaker 1: on it, and they're trying to group the three point
5:36
Speaker 1: five trillion new plan with the one point to trillion
5:40
Speaker 1: true infrastructure plan. Now, we view at one point two
5:42
Speaker 1: trillion as a true infrastructure plan with spending on important
5:47
Speaker 1: infrastructure assets for the future, such as the power grid
5:51
Speaker 1: for broadband. The three point five trillion we don't really
5:55
Speaker 1: view as infrastructure, and that's really to me much more
5:59
Speaker 1: uh typical on spending package. Right then infrastructure? All right,
6:04
Speaker 1: josh I, I personally went down to d C and
6:05
Speaker 1: made my pitch for the gateway plan that is so
6:08
Speaker 1: critical for the metro New York area. So beside the gateway,
6:12
Speaker 1: what are some of the interesting areas you're looking at
6:16
Speaker 1: in this bill? Again, it's the new tunnel underneath the
6:21
Speaker 1: Hudson River to replace the one year old railway tunnels
6:25
Speaker 1: for Amtrak and New Jersey Transit. You know, like people
6:28
Speaker 1: a day and go through. So they built like three
6:30
Speaker 1: in the last hundred years, don't I don't know. I
6:33
Speaker 1: don't know. It's New Jersey, New York. That's all you
6:34
Speaker 1: need to know. So, um, Josh, So beside my beloved gateway,
6:39
Speaker 1: what else is in this bill that you're focusing on?
6:42
Speaker 1: So there's two areas that we think are prying for
6:45
Speaker 1: growth and are happening with or without the bill, but
6:48
Speaker 1: it's just really a catalyst. On one is a sixty
6:51
Speaker 1: billion dollars for the power grid, and that we need
6:54
Speaker 1: an updated power grid because of all the renewable energy
6:58
Speaker 1: we're starting to produce here in the United States. Last year,
7:01
Speaker 1: for example, we spent about twenty five billion dollars just
7:04
Speaker 1: on wind alone. Solar makes up about three of our
7:08
Speaker 1: US production that could grow at about so we need
7:13
Speaker 1: an updated power grid for the transmission lines to transmit
7:17
Speaker 1: that energy produced. The other part is for the broadband.
7:20
Speaker 1: Were spent about sixty billion dollars extremely important to make
7:24
Speaker 1: sure that rural areas, low income communities have access to
7:29
Speaker 1: four and then five j So we we really believe
7:32
Speaker 1: that's the two areas of growth for infrastructure, one on
7:34
Speaker 1: the renewable side and two in towers four five G.
7:40
Speaker 1: So who makes money off this or what what are
7:42
Speaker 1: you investing in UM? Who do you think the winners
7:45
Speaker 1: are going to be? The winners are to be clear
7:49
Speaker 1: as day for when we talk about the transformation from
7:53
Speaker 1: four to G to five G, we should invest in
7:55
Speaker 1: the towers. We've seen percent data growth. It's only going
8:00
Speaker 1: to accelerate when we have five G. Just as a
8:03
Speaker 1: data point, if we get to autonomous vehicles and they're
8:06
Speaker 1: gonna generate as much data per hour as the equivalent
8:10
Speaker 1: of an iPhones used over three thousand years. So we
8:13
Speaker 1: need UM more dense, more dense towers globally. So we
8:19
Speaker 1: like companies like ant here in the U S and
8:22
Speaker 1: c c I in Europe. We like companies like some big,
8:25
Speaker 1: big beneficiaries going forward up for five G, and we
8:30
Speaker 1: think we're in the early stages of that growth. It's
8:32
Speaker 1: gonna last a decade or so. In order to identify
8:35
Speaker 1: the towers. The other side, as I mentioned on the
8:37
Speaker 1: renewable energy, we're spending more and more, not only here
8:40
Speaker 1: in the United States but also in Europe. In Europe
8:44
Speaker 1: they spend fifty billion dollars on building wind last year.
8:48
Speaker 1: That's only going to accelebrate, accelerate. If you look at
8:51
Speaker 1: the EU, they proposed a fit for fifty five, which
8:55
Speaker 1: basically means that there are two thousand in the emissions
8:59
Speaker 1: to arguts are going from. Beneficiaries of that are next
9:07
Speaker 1: terror here in the United States, are WU in Europe,
9:10
Speaker 1: Email in Europe, so we think there's a lot of
9:13
Speaker 1: beneficiaries for that. Matt I worked on those I p
9:17
Speaker 1: O s of Crown Castle in American Tower and those
9:19
Speaker 1: are which is really awesome. Uh, companies, awesome businesses. Man,
9:23
Speaker 1: It's just a nice It's almost like a real estate
9:25
Speaker 1: play and the driver is five G and just increasing
9:28
Speaker 1: use of data. So how is the sector performed in general? Josh,
9:32
Speaker 1: I'm just talking infrastructure. How is your sector over the
9:34
Speaker 1: last several years performed. So we have one fund that's
9:39
Speaker 1: been around for thirteen years, a s g I, and
9:42
Speaker 1: that's performed extremely well, roughly twelve and it returns. Infrastructure
9:47
Speaker 1: is fairly wide. So when you ask how the infrastructure
9:50
Speaker 1: sector has performed as a fund, it's performed well. There's
9:53
Speaker 1: different sectors within infrastructure. There's the communications sector, as we mentioned,
9:57
Speaker 1: the towers have done extremely well. Renewable energy plays within
10:00
Speaker 1: utilities have done well in the in the transport fector
10:04
Speaker 1: that's not done as well because, especially because of COVID,
10:08
Speaker 1: when we've seen people not flyings we own airports and
10:11
Speaker 1: roads globally, that hasn't performed as well recently. Hey, Josh,
10:16
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciated great timing
10:19
Speaker 1: here with this infrastructure bill winding its way through Congress.
10:22
Speaker 1: To kind of get your thoughts here, Josh Deed's senior
10:24
Speaker 1: portfolio manager for Aberdeen Standard Investments. He specific portfolio manager
10:29
Speaker 1: the Aberdeen Standard Global Infrastructure Income Fund, so he knows
10:33
Speaker 1: a thing or two about what's happening there on infrastructure.
10:36
Speaker 1: And again, that bill winding its way through Congress, a
10:40
Speaker 1: lot of pieces surrounding whether it's gonna be tied to
10:42
Speaker 1: the Greater Spending bill uh, and that may slow it down,
10:46
Speaker 1: but the expectation is that bill is bipartisan support and
10:50
Speaker 1: we'll get through well. The whole concept of a globalization,
10:55
Speaker 1: at least my mind, seems to maybe have lost some
10:58
Speaker 1: momentum over the last were five years as many countries
11:02
Speaker 1: look more inward. Uh. Maybe perhaps led by the United
11:07
Speaker 1: States itself. Let's check in with Tracy McMillan, head of
11:10
Speaker 1: Global asset Allocation Strategy for the Wells Fargo Investment Institute.
11:14
Speaker 1: They've got a new report out that looks at globalization. So, Tracy, again,
11:20
Speaker 1: maybe it's just me, but it feels like it's lost
11:22
Speaker 1: a little bit of momentum. You know, America first, all
11:25
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, lots of nationalism across Europe and
11:28
Speaker 1: Brexit Brexit, thank you very much. Uh what do you think, Tracy?
11:32
Speaker 1: What did you find? Yes? And thank you for having
11:36
Speaker 1: me today. So what we found was that globalization is
11:42
Speaker 1: definitely changing, but we don't think that it's ending. You know.
11:47
Speaker 1: We we don't think that all production of goods for
11:50
Speaker 1: US consumers will return to the United States, and we
11:54
Speaker 1: don't think that all good ideas um are located within
11:58
Speaker 1: uh certain geographic border. But we do think that countries
12:03
Speaker 1: are going to continue to trade and the cost of
12:06
Speaker 1: that trade, though, it's going to include more than just
12:10
Speaker 1: the pure cost of the goods. So in in other words,
12:13
Speaker 1: you know, some of those um, some of those things
12:16
Speaker 1: that are blocking globalism, populist sentiment, separatist movements, internet control,
12:23
Speaker 1: media censorship, you know, some of the things you're alluding
12:26
Speaker 1: to their are are definitely going to add costs to
12:30
Speaker 1: globalization as we know it. I mean, the President of
12:34
Speaker 1: the United States, Great Britain. These are things that we're
12:38
Speaker 1: block globalization as well, right, But now you can add
12:41
Speaker 1: supply chain issues. Are aren't more companies trying to bring
12:47
Speaker 1: their production home or make it local to where they
12:51
Speaker 1: sell their goods? Yeah, you're you're exactly right about that.
12:55
Speaker 1: Supply chains are definitely evolving. And you know the admented
13:00
Speaker 1: supply chains that we've grown accustomed to, you know, those
13:04
Speaker 1: that are across a lot of different low wage producers
13:08
Speaker 1: um production centers, those are becoming more concentrated. We think,
13:14
Speaker 1: we think they are going to be more high tech
13:16
Speaker 1: and more regionalized. And we think a great example of
13:21
Speaker 1: that is clothing. So you think about how uh, you know,
13:25
Speaker 1: the fibers used to be put together in material and
13:28
Speaker 1: a certain group of countries, and then that fabric would
13:33
Speaker 1: be sent to China, China would construct the garment, and
13:37
Speaker 1: then it would be sent to the United States. And
13:39
Speaker 1: so now we think that those supply chains um that
13:43
Speaker 1: created vulnerabilities and dependencies are are going to start to
13:48
Speaker 1: coalesce around the major consumption centers of the world and
13:53
Speaker 1: that's going to be the US and China in India. So, Tracy,
13:58
Speaker 1: how much does it's It seems really over the last
14:02
Speaker 1: twenty five years that globalization has just been a just
14:05
Speaker 1: a given and it's technology. It's just how businesses are evolving,
14:09
Speaker 1: are becoming more interconnected. Can that be stopped? I mean,
14:13
Speaker 1: it just seems like it's just a natural evolution, even
14:17
Speaker 1: if for a period of time the United States doesn't
14:20
Speaker 1: want to lead, or even if the UK doesn't want
14:23
Speaker 1: to be part of a bigger EU, is it something
14:25
Speaker 1: that's just natural? Yeah? So, um, you know, one of
14:30
Speaker 1: the things we observed is that trade of goods as
14:33
Speaker 1: a percent of global GDP has been falling. So if
14:37
Speaker 1: you think about you know, manufactured goods, that's what most
14:40
Speaker 1: of us think about when we think about globalization, but
14:43
Speaker 1: that has indeed been falling as a percent of GDP
14:47
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, and that's as those production
14:51
Speaker 1: facilities do start to locate closer to the end market.
14:56
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing here is that digital technology are
15:00
Speaker 1: spurring future trade growth and that's mostly in services. And
15:06
Speaker 1: the services you know, include things um that are you know,
15:13
Speaker 1: considered anything as a service, so you know, we're looking
15:16
Speaker 1: at things like UH people and companies that purchase capital
15:21
Speaker 1: resources and then loan out. The UM productive capacity of
15:25
Speaker 1: those UH capital resources. Trade in services is twenty three
15:30
Speaker 1: times higher since Steen seventy six, and it's doubling every
15:34
Speaker 1: five years. So by some estimates are that services could
15:39
Speaker 1: represent fifty per cent of globalized trade. So it's really
15:44
Speaker 1: all about digital then, I mean not all, but the
15:47
Speaker 1: lion share of what you see as the future of
15:50
Speaker 1: globalization depends on the Internet. A lot of it does, yes, UM,
15:58
Speaker 1: so it will depend on information technology. We think consumer
16:04
Speaker 1: discretionary companies and healthcare companies are also poised well to
16:09
Speaker 1: benefit UM from this evolving trend. And we think that
16:14
Speaker 1: US companies are poised well to benefit from this UM.
16:19
Speaker 1: You know, US companies benefit from UM having different differentiation UM.
16:27
Speaker 1: They are also very innovative, and they are prepared for
16:33
Speaker 1: a world where we think that there could be big
16:36
Speaker 1: shifts and production centers and they'll need to have a
16:41
Speaker 1: deeper knowledge of local consumers. So that's where that digitalization
16:47
Speaker 1: information that instantaneously crosses borders all come into play. How
16:53
Speaker 1: about China, I'm sorry, how about India? Because it seems
16:56
Speaker 1: like China perhaps isn't necessarily going to be as welcoming
16:59
Speaker 1: as perhaps some business leader's thought over the last decade
17:02
Speaker 1: or so. Is India the next big thing? So we
17:07
Speaker 1: do think that India is going to play a significant
17:10
Speaker 1: role in globalization going forward. They already have a competitive
17:14
Speaker 1: advantage and services, whereas you know, China may have that
17:17
Speaker 1: competitive vantage in production. We think that India has the
17:21
Speaker 1: competitive advantage and services and will continue to have that.
17:26
Speaker 1: Um We also think that because the population in India
17:30
Speaker 1: is young and growing, and they also have a growing
17:34
Speaker 1: middle class, that there are quite a bit uh of
17:39
Speaker 1: investment opportunities associated with India. Alright, very cool stuff, really
17:47
Speaker 1: cool report. Tracy McMillan, thanks so much for your time.
17:51
Speaker 1: Tracy McMillan is the head of Global Asset Allocation Strategy
17:55
Speaker 1: at the Wells Fargo Investment Institute, and she's talking to
17:58
Speaker 1: us about the Investment Institutes Globalization report, which is I mean,
18:04
Speaker 1: it's suffered I think to some extent under President Trump
18:09
Speaker 1: and and Brexit and the nationalism that we see across Europe.
18:13
Speaker 1: But then again, obviously because of the coronavirus pandemic, maybe
18:18
Speaker 1: even worse because of the supply chains that were tripped
18:23
Speaker 1: up amidst lockdowns globally. This is Bloomberg. Kind of a
18:31
Speaker 1: mixed morning here, but coming off of some of those
18:34
Speaker 1: early trading session lows, let's get a sense of where
18:37
Speaker 1: we are here when this market tremendous amount of volatility
18:40
Speaker 1: this week. Welcome Dave Harden. He's a CEO and chief
18:44
Speaker 1: investment officer of Summit Global Investments. They have approximately one
18:47
Speaker 1: point eight billion dollars in assets under management, So Dave,
18:50
Speaker 1: kind of a wild week here. We started off with
18:52
Speaker 1: a big, big sell off, maybe a little contagion coming
18:55
Speaker 1: out of China some of those fears. But boy, this
18:58
Speaker 1: market has bounced back and the by the dip folks
19:01
Speaker 1: seem to have won the day. What do you make
19:03
Speaker 1: of this week in this market? Well, thanks for having me,
19:07
Speaker 1: glad to be here, and it has been a very
19:10
Speaker 1: volatile week, right, and I think the volatility continues, and
19:14
Speaker 1: so yes, by the dip one. But the story is
19:18
Speaker 1: not written yet. It's we're not over yet, and you
19:21
Speaker 1: saw the wall of worry just getting higher now with
19:24
Speaker 1: China and the crackdown in crypto. Um, I don't think
19:27
Speaker 1: the evergreendly is over yet. The technically, conditions are extremely
19:32
Speaker 1: high right now, um, and so I think there's a
19:35
Speaker 1: lot more volatility to come. So if you're holding a
19:38
Speaker 1: stock and it's not where you wanted to have it,
19:42
Speaker 1: just wait a little while a might get there right
19:45
Speaker 1: total um, which is by the way, I guess in China,
19:49
Speaker 1: if you're holding bigcoin, that's your only choice right now
19:52
Speaker 1: because you can't make any transactions in terms of the
19:55
Speaker 1: evergrand issue. What are your big concerns? Well, contagious going
20:00
Speaker 1: to HSBC, going to other stocks that have the exposure
20:04
Speaker 1: over into China. Um, you know, nights down today, but
20:07
Speaker 1: it's really not the same situation. It's the Vietnam issue.
20:10
Speaker 1: So what I'm worried about is the contagion of other
20:14
Speaker 1: issues coming into stocks that have no play whatsoever in
20:17
Speaker 1: that area. That's what I'm worried about. So all right, Dave,
20:22
Speaker 1: where you know, there's a lot of people that are,
20:24
Speaker 1: in fact, we're concerned about this market kind of you know,
20:27
Speaker 1: whether it's evaluation concern, whether it's just a frothiness concern
20:31
Speaker 1: when they look at certain segments of the market. And
20:34
Speaker 1: we saw that on Monday, perhaps in some of that trading,
20:37
Speaker 1: certainly early in the day, where do you feel comfortable
20:41
Speaker 1: deploying capital? Uh in markets today? It just feels like,
20:46
Speaker 1: even with the tenure at one point four percent and change,
20:50
Speaker 1: that's not the place where are you thinking about your allocation?
20:53
Speaker 1: Well that's a really good point. And it's funny how
20:56
Speaker 1: finally investors are carrying about risk. No one cared about
21:01
Speaker 1: risk for a long time. And so when you think
21:03
Speaker 1: of risk management and deploying capital right now, you know,
21:06
Speaker 1: some of the things that come right in my mind
21:08
Speaker 1: is like Costco. So Costco here's a very fine stock.
21:11
Speaker 1: Everybody knows about it, or if not, they're members of
21:13
Speaker 1: the stock that you know, members of themselves and shopping there.
21:17
Speaker 1: But it's a stock that's done tremendously well. If you
21:19
Speaker 1: look over the last year, it's basically been the same
21:23
Speaker 1: return as the SMP five hundreds, but it's a significant
21:25
Speaker 1: less risk. We're talking about a sixty eight beta, so
21:28
Speaker 1: a lot less volatility, good equity returns, and moving forward,
21:33
Speaker 1: I would say outperforms the market going forward. Domestic, so
21:37
Speaker 1: we we know the domestic situation extremely well. With COVID.
21:41
Speaker 1: You think emerging markets, Vietnam, you know, China, we don't
21:44
Speaker 1: know those situations as well. So you understand this very
21:47
Speaker 1: very well. You shop there. This is a very good
21:50
Speaker 1: stock to own. Right now, what about consumer um? We've
21:57
Speaker 1: seen consumer confidence fall drastic. I'm not saying that's going
22:00
Speaker 1: to hit cost code necessarily, maybe even a boon to
22:04
Speaker 1: a company like Costco. But what what about the effects
22:07
Speaker 1: on the economy. Are you concerned? Well, yes we are,
22:11
Speaker 1: but I think that people there's still money that's being spent,
22:15
Speaker 1: and that money that's being spent I think has to
22:18
Speaker 1: be smarter. I think it has to go online, and
22:21
Speaker 1: so they have great numbers um. I think their online
22:25
Speaker 1: presence continues to grow. They have a loyal membership as well.
22:29
Speaker 1: So I see the same thing out of Target. Even
22:31
Speaker 1: though worried about retail, yes, worried again about consumer confidence, yes,
22:36
Speaker 1: but they have a history of beating their earnings, earnings
22:38
Speaker 1: top and bottom line. The back to school looked good.
22:42
Speaker 1: I really think that. You know, that's another good place
22:45
Speaker 1: to put money. You understand the story. Don't have to
22:48
Speaker 1: worry about unforeseen risks and downside risks. Just watch COVID
22:53
Speaker 1: and continue to do what you do, which is the
22:55
Speaker 1: consumer shops David. In these two faces, I feel comfortable.
22:59
Speaker 1: A couple places you seem less comfortable, and that would
23:02
Speaker 1: be kind of what I would call kind of reopening trades.
23:04
Speaker 1: You have cells on Southwest and Zoom. Is that just
23:08
Speaker 1: a call that, hey, Delta is here and you better
23:10
Speaker 1: put the brakes on the reopening trade. Not really. I
23:14
Speaker 1: think there's some more of that in Zoom. I think
23:16
Speaker 1: it continues to struggle with growth because of the EU
23:19
Speaker 1: opening trade, but more competitors come into play. Microsoft teams
23:23
Speaker 1: is is used heavily and is rolling out new webinar
23:28
Speaker 1: features and rolling out new conference call features, and so
23:31
Speaker 1: I see go to Connect and Google and other players
23:33
Speaker 1: there that I don't see them that gross story. Everybody
23:37
Speaker 1: was buying them for really turning out and let's face it,
23:40
Speaker 1: it's underperformed the S and P FI Earth in this
23:43
Speaker 1: case the Russell too. But you know the index if
23:45
Speaker 1: you will, by about over the last one year, and
23:49
Speaker 1: I don't see that bouncing back. That's not the right time.
23:51
Speaker 1: Southwest a little bit different. Yeah, there's a COVID story
23:54
Speaker 1: with all airlines, and all airlines have struggled over the
23:57
Speaker 1: last three months. Recently, over the last maybe two or three,
24:00
Speaker 1: eek is doing okay. But Southwest here you have an
24:02
Speaker 1: abrupt quick from senior management. Uh, you have some business
24:07
Speaker 1: travel extreme going on that's not coming back. So I
24:12
Speaker 1: think that over the long term, I'm not negative on
24:15
Speaker 1: airlines are reopening there as much as I would say
24:17
Speaker 1: Southwest with the downside risk, I'd rather own Delta. I
24:23
Speaker 1: actually traveled for business recently. It was the worst experience
24:28
Speaker 1: I have ever had. I never want to do it again,
24:32
Speaker 1: but you're probably gonna have to. I will do it
24:34
Speaker 1: one more time when I moved back to New York.
24:37
Speaker 1: Until airlines just generally improved, Like, is there any mode
24:41
Speaker 1: of transportation that's worse than an airline? I would rather
24:44
Speaker 1: ride this subway than an airline. Just subway rocks. Yeah,
24:48
Speaker 1: especially I love the four five all right, David, You've
24:51
Speaker 1: got to buy on on Exon here? Is this a
24:53
Speaker 1: dividend play because I mean again looking at the ten
24:55
Speaker 1: year one point four or five. Yes, that's higher than
24:57
Speaker 1: what we've seen recently, but still a very low yield
25:01
Speaker 1: and energy. You know, we've got w t I crude
25:04
Speaker 1: oil up at seventy three. It's been ripping. What's your
25:07
Speaker 1: call there on XX? Yeah, I'm very positive on Xon.
25:11
Speaker 1: You have a yield that's hide like you mentioned six
25:13
Speaker 1: point six percent, what have you plus, so you're getting
25:17
Speaker 1: paid all in the stock. I don't see crude going
25:19
Speaker 1: low work because the supply issues and other things. It's
25:22
Speaker 1: up about over the SMPI over the last year and
25:27
Speaker 1: so though it's cool about the last little while with oil,
25:30
Speaker 1: and it does trade in coinsidne there with oil, the
25:33
Speaker 1: reality is is x ON I feel like is a
25:35
Speaker 1: very good performer, especially for the risk you're taking. Again,
25:39
Speaker 1: what's the downside risk here to x On? It's really
25:41
Speaker 1: just oil. There's not much. Governance is great. What they're
25:45
Speaker 1: doing is good um. And if we ever get control
25:48
Speaker 1: of this stupid virus um, the reality is is that
25:51
Speaker 1: there's going to be more demand. So long term, I
25:54
Speaker 1: think this is a really good stalk to home. What
25:56
Speaker 1: do you make of the big moves and rates, uh
25:59
Speaker 1: Dave that we've seen the ten uere yesterday was up
26:02
Speaker 1: ten BIFs and today another five. Well, I think it
26:07
Speaker 1: goes to show the concern that investors have, especially the
26:11
Speaker 1: institutional investors. Right, so we believe that there is a
26:14
Speaker 1: shift going to the early deceleration. It's under way. UM,
26:19
Speaker 1: if you're not looking at your portfolio right now and
26:22
Speaker 1: saying how do I manage risk? Then I don't think
26:26
Speaker 1: you're making your portfolio better for tomorrow because risk is here,
26:31
Speaker 1: and it's coming um in greater amounts in the future,
26:35
Speaker 1: and the volatility is going to continue. So I think
26:37
Speaker 1: you have to look at what wins in the future,
26:40
Speaker 1: not necessarily what's win one in the past. All Right, David,
26:44
Speaker 1: thank you so much for chatting with us with us.
26:46
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. David Harden, CEO and chief investment
26:49
Speaker 1: officers Summit Global Investments one point eight billion dollars in
26:53
Speaker 1: assets on their management. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg
26:56
Speaker 1: Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews that
26:59
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller.
27:04
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller, three pt on Fall Sweeney.
27:08
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast. You
27:11
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.