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Amber Heard's Hit Parade of Johnny Depp's Exes on the Stand · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece. Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Seems as if the country doesn't care about Rovie Wade
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Baby formula politics. They are riveted on Johnny Depp versus
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: amber Heard. But why it's like passing a wreck on
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the side of the interstate. You try not to look,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: you try not to slow down, but you do. In
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the last hours, damning testimony from the stand taking one
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: hit after the next at Johnny Depp. Why is this happening?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Because this is the grand finale of amber Heard's chase.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Very similar to a criminal case where the state goes
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: first and the defendant may or may not choose to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: put up a case. In a civil case, the plaintiff
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: nobody's going to jail. It's all about money. The plaintiff,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Johnny Depp, is suing the non defendant, the respondent amber Heard,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: claiming that she wrote an op ed in The Washington
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Post that named him de facto as being her physical abuser.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: He is suing for fifty million dollars. She's suing him
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that for one hundred million when he claimed her allegations
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: were all a hoax. One witness after the next, taking
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: a hit at Depp. You got his former business manager,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: his former agent, his friend that he allegedly cut loose
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and ghosted, a former girlfriend, none other than the famous
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Ellen Barkin. It goes on and on. Thanks for being
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: with us. I mean, it's he grace. This is crime
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: stories here at Fox Nation, in serious XM one eleven.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the name we all know very well,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Ellen Barkin. I mean, this woman is fantastic. Did you
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: see her in Oceans? Oh my Stars, she stole the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: show totally. Forget all the others, George Clooney, Paciano, blah blah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Ellen Barkin. Awesome. Now she had an ill fated relationship
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: with Johnny Depp, who cares? Maybe this jury because take
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: a listen to what she had to tell the jury.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Mister Depp threw a wine bottle across the room, the
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: hotel room on one instance in Las Vegas, while we
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: were shooting Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, were you
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: was something about to happen? The fight was going on
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: between you and mister Duppa. No, who was the fight
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: between between Johnny Depp and his friends in the room
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the assistant honestly, I don't remember. And the bottle that
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: do you remember sitting here today is barking whether the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: bottle was full of wine or empty? I don't sitting
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: here to Davis barking, do you remember whether the bottle
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: hit you? No? It did not. Did the bottle hit
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: anyone else? No, it did not. Approximately how far away
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: from you was mister duck when he threw the bottle
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: across the room, So maybe by that break in the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: table a little further down, it was a toss straight
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: out to Kayla Brantley, reporter, Daily Mail. You can find
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: her on Twitter at Underscore Kayla Brantley, Killa, I'm hearing
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: a lot about wine bottles being thrown in this case,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a recurring thing. Oh yeah, absolutely, Nancy.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was very known to drink wine. Everybody
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: testified that he is a big red wine drinker, and
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: in this case that happened, you know, years and years ago.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: It kind of speaks to this is how Johnny is,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and this is how Johnny has always been. She said
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that he was drunk almost all of the time, and
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: then testified that he was also controlling and a jealous man.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what Amber Hurd has been saying. So
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: This all corroborates everything that Amber has saying that Johnny
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: was drunk almost all the time, and every time that
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: he was drunk or doing drugs, this monster would come
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: out and do these types of things like throwing bottles
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, really attacking people. You know what kill us.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I really admire you. I like everything you've ever done.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: But aren't you putting a little perfume, a little perfume
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: on the pig when you say he liked wine, liked wine?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: What he had a thirty thousand dollar wine tab that
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: we know of. This guy blew six hundred and fifty
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: million dollars, a fortune he had been massed by his
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: own hard work and talent. Sheer talent and sheer hard work.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: You can't spend thirty grand a month and not go
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: broke thirty grand on whine. That's a lot more than
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: loving a glass of wine. Absolutely, You're absolutely right. It
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: was more of a more than a like of wine.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: He clearly has an issue here with thirty thousand dollars
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a month on wine. And then also his business manager,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: who he sued, testified and said that Johnny's finances were
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a very dire thirty thousand dollars a month on wine,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you will quickly go broke. And he was paying his doctor,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: doctor David Kipper, who some people called, you know, a
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: scam artist, one hundred thousand dollars a month. His assistant
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: earned you know, over a one hundred thousand dollars a year,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and his estate manager two hundred and two thousand dollars
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a year. So he was blowing money lesson right, he
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: had all these penhouses and was living this lavish lifestyle
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: that clearly made him you lose all his money, you know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen talking about Ellen Barkin and Jackie. Let me
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: know when you have the rest of the sound I
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: want on Ellen Barkin. Daryl. Of course, a trial is
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: not a popularity contest. Nobody in miss trial is going
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to go home crown, miss sweet Potato. And that goes
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: without saying. So I'm not saying that Ellen Barkin is popular.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: What I am saying when I keep saying she's likable
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: and Amberhard has come across as not likable. The point is, Daryl, okay,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: here's a good example. You were like this very much
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom criminal cases. But I always point to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane, whether he was prepared or not, it didn't matter.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: He would walk into a courtroom. Everybody liked him. Every
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: even I, who vehemently disagree with everything that came out
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of his mouth, I liked. And when a jury likes you,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: they're more receptive to you. When you irritate them and
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you great on their nerves, or they lose respect or
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they don't they don't trust you anymore. They're not gonna
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: listen to a thing you say. So by putting up
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: this his former manager right that handled all of his
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: finances that he later sued. By putting up who I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: thought was really believable and really likable, and then they
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: put up a longtime friend I think his name was Witkin,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: who he kind of ghosted. For instance, Barkin is likable.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I think the jury is going to listen to her. Nancy,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I completely agree. Look, this is all about likability. This
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: is all about entertainment. Entertainment went from Los Angeles to Virginia.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: We have a soap opera and both of these people,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Johnny and Amber may deserve to win an Emmy for
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: being on TV and clearly Oscar were This is not
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: a trial about somebody who's going to prison. This is
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a trial about lawyer's winning and about both of them
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: being big at the box. After this is over Watch,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: one of the jurars, are More writes a book watch
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: just listen, and this is an interesting trial because it
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: means nothing. It just means I have an ego and
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I cannot allow you to write an opted where I
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: know that you are talking about me, and I am
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: not going to allow you to hurt me. So the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: two of them deserve each other. They really do. What
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a lovely couple. I mean, Killa Brantley joining me from
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: dailymail dot com Kila a few weeks ago. Isn't it
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: true that a witness came forward during Dept's portion of
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the case. Right now, we're in Heard's response, Okay, in
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Depth's portion of the case, a witness came forward and
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: said that Amber Heard actually wanted Johnny Depp's name in
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the article, but the post Washington Post did not put
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it in there. Yeah, I mean, we had heard from
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: a lawyer who said that he looked through the article
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: before it was published to make sure that you know,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: she couldn't get sued for exactly what's happening now, couldn't
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: get sep for defination for using Johnny Depp's name in vain,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: so that name was not put in. This was also
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: written with the acl ACLU. The ACLU helped Amber heard ricis.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So she clearly, you know, it seemed that she was
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: out for this, you know, exposure, to to defame Johnny Depp.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: I guess in this case. But she did take some
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: precautions to not get sued, which clearly didn't work because
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: here we are, guys are talking about the testimony. It
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: was in a videotape recording of a deposition she took
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: in about twenty nineteen. But her words were powerful. Take
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: a listen to more of a movie star, Ellen Barkin
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and fraught of the debt jury. You just use the
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: word jealous. How did that come up? What did he
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: say that indicated to you was jealous? He's just a
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: jealous man, controlling where are you going, who are you
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: going with? Well, what did you do last night? I
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: had a scratch on my back once. That got him very,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: very angry because he insisted it came from me having
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: sex with a person who wasn't And during the time
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: that you were in a sexual relationship with mister Dupp,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: was it common for him to say things to you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: about being controlling, to use your words, or being jealous
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: of you? Yeah? Very come? And when in these instances
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: when mister Stepp became jealous or controlling, did he also
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: become angry? Yeah, and demanding prime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Was it common for him to say things to you
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: about being controlling, to use your words, or being jealous? Yeah, Harry,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Come and when in these instances when mister steph became
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: jealous or controlling, did he also become angry? Yeah, and demanding? Angry, demanding?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: You know, doctor Charles Heller is with me clinical forensic
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: psychologists specializing in domestic violence, the chief forensic consultant in
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Rockland County. There in New York at the Forensic Mental
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Health Unit, also with Rutger's Biomedical and Health Science as
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I could go on, But to you, doctor Heller, I
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: know that you probably have a very fancy term for
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: this psychological talk, but I like to say, when you
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: don't know a horse, look at his track record. So
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: right now the jury is trying to figure out what
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: kind of horse Johnny Depp is and they're seeing a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: track record through Ellen Barkin, jealous, controlling, domineering, drunk, high
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: use coke, use hallucinogenics, extremely jealous through a wine bottle,
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  Speaker 1: confronted her about a scratch on her back, accused her
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: of being disloyal, cheating as everything Amber heard is saying, yes, Dancy,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: all of these are signs of domestic violence. But both
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of these people have been have admitted to being violent
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: with each other in different ways, and Amber seems to
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: be exaggerating the intensity and frequency. And that's a serious
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: problem for me. Yeah, it is a problem, And this
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: is the way I see breaking down. Let me go
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to John Guard. He's the chief deputy at the Pitt
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office, also specializing in investigating domestic violence. You
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: have investigated a sfi hundreds and hundreds of domestic violence cases.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And that's what this is about. Was her telling the truth,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and that Washington Post op ed has she ever been
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: beaten by Johnny Depp? When you go to trial, the
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: fact that the victim may have been beaten can be
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: obscured by the fact overshadowed by the fact the victim
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: has beaten the defendant, and the jury cancels it out.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: It's called jury nullification. They may actually believe Yeah, he
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: hit her, but I hate her. She hit him too.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I don't like her. I think she's lying and totally
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: void her claims jury nullification. What about a John Guard? Well,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I think a couple of things I've learned, you know,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the most recent summaries and how the trial's going is
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: a couple of things in our world. You know, historically,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: back in the olden days, domestic violence we look at
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: it as being incident based, you know that one time
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: when the nine one call came in. But what we
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: found over the years that a lot of times people
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: that are involved in these relationships not necessarily one instant.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: And in those instants, you in at least criminal investigations,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you see a lot of co occurring crimes. I know
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: when they were looking at past history and talking with
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: other folks that were involved with mister Depth, you know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: they brought up past similar bad acts and you know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: we've evolved in the criminal world. Did not just look
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: at the instant Today, you look at past history the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: term is there a pattern of behavior? And I you know,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the testimony about her striking depth. You know, when we
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: look into domestic violence cases all over this country, you
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: know there is no absolute obligation for somebody not to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: defend themselves or defend others. So was it there not
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: a criminal case? Different levels of proof here in this trial.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: But there are a lot of things coming out this week.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: You know another thing, John Guard, and I really appreciate
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: what you're saying as all to all the guests on
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: our panel today, because you each have intrinsic value as
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: it relates to the depth trial, John Guard, I put
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: witnesses up on the stand when they were drunk as
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: a skunk. I could smell them when they came into
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the courtroom. One was so drunk she had on a
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: fake for a hat. It was about ninety eight degrees outside.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: They have had rap sheets, they've had criminal convictions. They're
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: not great people. Let's just say they ain't nins and
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: priests and virgins, Okay, but that does not mean they
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: cannot be a victim. Lady Justice as wearing a blindfold
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: for a reason. She doesn't care. She knows the character
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of why do you're black, are you drunk or you're sober?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: You got a substance abuse problem? This that My point is,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we may not, like Amber heard, We may have to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: hold our nose when she testifies, but if he hit her,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: none of that matters, right. I mean, witnesses are not perfect,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: They're not angels. You have to take them as you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: find them. I agree on I think this is very similar.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: If you look at what the jurors are dealing with
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and having to navigate. Law enforcement across this country deal
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: with this every day. It's it's not every domestic assault
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that we go to where only one party used some
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: type of force. I mean, you have an obligation or
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: at least the right to defend oneself and at times
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: there may be an injury because of that, and you've
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: got to put it together. I love criminal investigations much
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: more than the civil end. You know, we're fact finders
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and it leads us where we go. But we are
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: highly trained and skilled in these type of investigations. That's
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: why those that are involved or find themselves in these
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: type of relationships please reach out to law enforcement if
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you need detailed mess of we're here for you. Know.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen a former felony prosecutor many many years when
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I started the District Attorney's office, Darrel was just leaving
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: after many years trying felony cases. Now civil lawyer in
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Atlanta and really all across the country. Daryl, So these
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: are the two factors. Just tell me the truth. I
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: know this is going to be really hard for you
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to do. I learned this the first week of law school.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: For a lawyer to ever give a yes no answer.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: But let me try again, Daryl Cohen. Yes, No. Do
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you believe Johnny Depp ever hit Amber her? Absolutely? Even once? Absolutely? Okay,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: me too, there, I'll tell you me too. On the
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: other hand, do you believe Amber heard hit Johnny Depp?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Belittled him, demand him without a doubt. I think the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: two deserve So my next question to explain my answer
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: in jorgy. No, this is cross exam. Okay, Daryl. In
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the jury's mind, you know what jury nullification is. It
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: could happen here. They may believe that sure Depp hit her,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: but they may dislike her in disbelieve so many portions
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: off her testimony as being exaggerated, falsified, an outright lie
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: in some occasions that they discount her testimony and fine
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: for dept. That could happen. Nancy absolutely could happen. It's
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the likability factor. However, I think they're gonna dislike Johnny
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Depp in some ways, they're dislike Amber Heard in some
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: ways and Lady Justice holding those scales, They're going to
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: drop fallout, and Justice is going to be the lawyers
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: win and Johnny and Amber with at the box office
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: regardless of what happens with the jury, Bernie. If Depp
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: ever gets another movie role other than the one in
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: France where he's going to be Louis the Fifteenth. Okay, guys,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: it's not just about Ellen Barkin, who I found to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: be one of the most powerful witnesses because I think
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the jury can relate to her. They think they know her,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and maybe we do know her. Maybe her on screen
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: persona is her personality. But in addition to her, Johnny
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Depp's former agent, Tracy Jacob I found her testimony really
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: powerful and his former business manager that he sued, Joel Mandel,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: very powerful. Let's take a listen to his former agent,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Tracy Jacob urcut A. Was mister Depp a difficult client
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to represent? He wasn't initially and it became far more
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: complicated in the last ten years of representing him. And
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: how did it become far more complicated than less ten years?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: And representation is unprofessional behavior anything else. I think that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: covers a multitude of things. And that's going to be
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: my next question. What do you mean by mister Depp's
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: unprofessional movie? In the last ten years of your representation,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: going up late to set consistently on virtually every movie,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I would get yelled at. I never said to him,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: you're a difficult client. I never used those words, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I was very honest with him and said, you've got
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to stop doing this. This is hurting you. And it did.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: There you were hearing his former agent, and that agent
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: had been with him for I think ten years or more.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So what they're doing Killa Brantley Kila is a reporter
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: with Dailymail dot Com, which has read all over the
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: world Killa. It seems to me that they are trying
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: to tear it down Johnny Depp's likability and show that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Amberhard's op ED was not the cause of his demise,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that he was his own undoing late to set drunk.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you keep a crew waiting six hours,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: they don't care if you're likable or funny or talented,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and oh nobody likes that. And even in Hollywood they
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: do have standards Killa. Yeah, that's exactly what they're trying
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to do here, because Johnny's saying that it was the
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: op ed that made him lose his Pirates of the
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Caribbean role. He got twenty five million dollars for like
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the last movie, I believe, so he lost out on
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of money when he lost contract, and he's
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: saying that it was Amber Heard's OpEd that did that.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But here we're seeing something totally different. That he had
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: bad behavior, that it was increased due to his alcohol
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and drugs, and that he was late. That at one
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: point he was using an earpiece to feed him his lines,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: is what his former agent said. That what's interesting here
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: is that he dropped his agent. I believe he represented
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: him for thirty years, so they had been together for
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: a long time throughout almost his entire career, and that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen he completely dropped her along with his
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: friend who testified, along with his business manager. So it
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: seems around twenty sixteen he was really going through a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: time where I believe Tracy Jacobs, the agent, said he
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: quote terminated essentially everyone in his life and she was
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: just along for the ride. Oh curious what happened in
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen to make him do that. Kia, Well,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that was a year that he was dealing with amber.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: According to his friend, I believe his name is Bruce Witkin,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: he had been his friends four years a year. Yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: they were in a band together, I think, yes, exactly,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Hollywood Vampires. They worked together until something just happened. He
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: said that there were rumors that he believed he was
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: trying to use him. So it seems like Johnny got
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: pretty paranoid regarding the people around him. He sued his
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: business manager, saying that he was stealing money from him,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: when in reality it looks like his finances were just
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: extremely dire dire. Hey, that's a good way to put it,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Keila Brantley. Let's listen to what the former business manager
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: now famously the reason we know about that thirty thousand
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: dollars a month wine bill, thirty thousand a month wine bill,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: About these seventy five million dollars he blew on an island,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: about paying this doctor thousands and thousands of dollars a
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: month to help him talks. He was paying his staff
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I believe correct me from ron Kiella about three hundred
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: grand a month. All in all, the staff. I mean,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: it was just he was hemorrhaging money. But take a
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: listen to Josh Mandale this is our cut forty four.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: His financial circumstances in two thousand and fifteen had reached
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: a point where I was extremely concerned and was on
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a very very regular basis express in that concern. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it seemed, as um I increased increased my level of
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: expressing that concern, there was anger directed in uh, you know,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: in my direction. Um. And so my warnings in two
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen that we were in very dire financial
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: circumstances were not very favorable. So didn't there come a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: time you observed, as mister Depp's business manager that his
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: spending habits became more increased, perhaps excessive, extravagant. Yes, And
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: when when did you observe that? When did that begin?
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Again in the time of for am I described in
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: that two thousand and ten an on time frame, As
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I recall, income was very significant, spending was very significant, um.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: And the again, the spending levels had grown very, very,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: very large and required that level of incredibly high income
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to be maintained, and when it dropped off, the disconnect
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: became untenable. What's so significant about Debt paying staff members
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars a month, and there were many,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: many staff members, is that Amber heards side is making
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the argument that his employees and friends are signing with
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: him because he has paid them so much money over
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the course of years and years and years. And to you,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer, there is absolutely a valid
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: line across examination to suggest someone has a pecuniary or
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: money interest in the outcome of the trial. Oh without
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a downmancie. If they didn't have an interest, then why
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: would they be there? Well, they may be there because
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: they like him. Oh why do they like him? Not
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: because he drinks, not because he's late to the set,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: but because he pays me, and he pays me on time.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: That makes a major difference in many cases. And it
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: may help Amber, or it may just be one more
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: thing that the jury goes. Okay, next, let's please entertain me.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Come on, Hollywood, stay here in Virginia. We love you.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: You know. There was a cast of characters on the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: stand now in what we we believe to be the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: grand finale of the Amber heard response, as you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Dept goes first heard goes second to you. Keela joining us,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Kella Brantley joining us from dailymail dot com. There have
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: been rumblings that Amber Heard's lawyers are going to call
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Johnny Depp back to the stand. Now, in a criminal case,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: of course, the state cannot call the defendant. Can't do it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: It violates the right to remain silent in the Fifth
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Amendment in a civil case. Not true, Not true at all.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Do you believe Heard is going to call Depp back
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to the stand, Well, there have been rumblings of that,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and I could totally see that happening. If he does
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: come back, they would absolutely try to discredit everything that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: he said. Again, he was so likable to the jury
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: when he was on the stand the first time, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Amber Heard was not as likable as you can see
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: from the court of public opinion. So I think definitely
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: calling him back could be a move for them to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: try to tear him down and try to catch him
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in a potential life. Well, you know they had that chance, Daryl,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: going on cross examination of Johnny Depp. He was up
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: in his own case and they cross examined him extensively.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I think putting him back on the stand would be
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a huge, huge, a grave miscalculation on the part of
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Hurd's team, because once they put him on the stand,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: his side, well, his own lawyers will have him on
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: cross exam And Nancy, I hate to agree with you,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: but one thousand percent, to put him back on the
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: stand gives him a chance not only to look good,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: rehabilitate himself, and to remind the jurors what a really
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: good guy he was in spite of his flaws. Bad
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: move in my view, yes, exactly. And you know, Daryl,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: which is such a powerful tool for a lawyers when
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you get the last word. Now, in a state's case,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: typically the state gets the final closing argument. You typically
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: have a chance to give the first closing argument, and
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: then the defense gives a closing and then you get
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: to give another closing or you can let them go
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: first and you go second. And the last thing that
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Jerry hears ringing in their ears is you telling it?
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: You telling it? In this case, if they put Depth
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: back on the stand, and then his own lawyers get
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to cross examine him, and when I say, his own
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: lawyers get across him, Okay, you be dept I'll be
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: your lawyer. Isn't it true? Johnny that she demand you answer, absolutely,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: demand me. I cannot believe what she did to me. Yes,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: isn't it true? She attacked you? Isn't it true? She
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: savaged you, she ruined you, she turned you. Guess your
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: friends loved her. They'll have a field day, Daryl Cohen
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: if they have their own client all Cross by the way,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: you have only one chance to make a first impression.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: He did when he testified, and if he comes back,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: he has the opportunity, as you have just pointed out,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: to make a last impression. First and last. What happens
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: in the middle, you forget. It's like reading a newspaper article.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You look at the beginning in the end, especially in
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: these long, long trials time stories with Nancy Grace. Hey, guys.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Another person that took the stand was Tina Newman Calla
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Brantley joining you from delmail dot com. One thing I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: liked about her I don't necessarily agree with what she said.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why later, but she was a very
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: matter of fact and actually very dry, and I like
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. So she was an executive for Disney,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and she pretty much spoke about the Pirates of the
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Caribbean film and said that, you know, Disney was not
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: considering offering a Depth, you know, a thirty one hundred
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: million dollars and a million alpacas, which was something that
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: it was a comment that that made I've got that saying,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: O ky l, that's exactly what I was going to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: play for yeas cut forty five. This is teena newman
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: a Disney exec. Is Disney aware that mister Depth has
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: testified under both that he would not take another I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: would say the Caribbean franchise role for three hundred million
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: dollars and a million alpacas. Now with Disney entertain paying
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: mister Depth more than three hundred million dollars and provide
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: him with a more than called packers to be able
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to maintain his services for any future pirates to the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Caribbean goal, Now you know what's what's interesting there. And
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: let me throw this to our expert, John Guard, Chief
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Debut Pitt County, and then I'll follow up with Charles
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Hell or our clinical forensic psychologist. There's this absurd question,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: did Disney actually consider paying him three hundred million and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: what a million alpacas? It was a joke Depp had
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: made earlier that even if they pay me three hundred
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: million dollars and a million alpackers, I wouldn't do it.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Her response was so she looked right at the camera,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: went no, no explanation. I mean I found her very believable,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and in a case like this, where there has been
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: almost a circus atmosphere, her personality really cuts through. Let
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: me just say the crap. I would agree with you.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting about it? To doctor Charles Heller forensic psychologists,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: let's think this thing through. While she seemed very believable
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: in the stand, it's really hard for me to believe
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: what she said about the OpEd having nothing to do
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: with Disney cutting debt loose why timing? Timing? Timing? She
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: puts out the OpEd, and very quickly after that, Disney
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: announces bye bye, You're over debt. I mean, how can
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: they not be connected? Nan, I see the reason many
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: of Johnny's fans are so dedicated to him is that
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: he concedes his faults. She never concedes her faults. She
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: has been dishonest about donating money when she just pledged
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the money for her It's the same thing. And again
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: she describes his very violent personality and behavior, yet she
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: actually gave him a knife as a gift. Things don't
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: make sense. You know, you brought up the lie about
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: the donation of the money. That was a lie. Yeah.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: The poop in the bed was a lie. Yes. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: many people wonder about her certain claims that she used
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a certain makeup to cover up her bruises when that
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: makeup had not even been put on the market at
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: that time. That was a lie. Does that mean she
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: can't be beaten? No, but doesn't mean the jury may
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: not believe her very possibly. Want to circle back to
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Ellen Barkin take a listen. Did there come a time
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: when your friendship with mister dat became more than that,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: became romantic nature? Yes? And at one point in time,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: did your relationship with mister Dadap take it a romantic turn?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: After I had moved to Hollywood and he, you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: switched the buttons. We'll call what you're you moved to Hollywood? Yes, um,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. When you say switched the bonds, can
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: you tell me what you want better? M the friendship
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: went from a purely platonic friendship to a romantic um
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: at that point in nineteen ninety four, when the relationship
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: turned romantic to your change that to sexual to sexual?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you for How long did your relationship with mister
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Dupp remain sexual? Several months? Anywhere between three and five six.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I find that really interesting and thought provoking. I think
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: it was Ellen Barkin that said, could you change that
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: characterization from romantic to sexual? Did I hear that correctly,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Killa Brantley? Was she the one that made that clarification
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: or was it the lawyer questioning her? No, it was
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: absolutely Ellen Barkin. She doubled back and she said, please
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: change romantic to sexual. She wanted to make that clear.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: But it was a sexual relationship for a few months,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and then she said that when it ended, it was
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: long drawn out, goodbye tears, and then she left and
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: never heard from depth again. I find her characterization clarification
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: very curious. She made it clear it was that romantic
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: it was sexual. Why did she do that? What does
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that mean to her? And what will the jury make
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: of that? To you? Doctor Charles Heller, you're the psychologist,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: what do you think? Well, basically, she says he changed.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: He pushed a new button. But you can't push a
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: new button unless there's a response, positive response, not what
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I asked you I agree with what you're saying. What
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I asked you is she corrected the lawyer. She said
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: it was not romantic, it was sexual. What does that mean? Well,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: she wanted to clarify that it was just sexual. It
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: was physical. There was no emotional connection, there was no love.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: The reason I ask is because later we learn that
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Depp said they broke up. He embarking broke up because
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: she wanted a quote, proper relationship and ship and he
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: could not give her that. Therefore they broke up. I
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: find that really interesting, the dichotomy of those two adjectives.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: What if anything, that will mean to the jury. While
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I mull that, can we talk one minute about his lawyer?
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: What about that killer Brantley? I mean, she's all over him.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: It looks like they're going steady. Maybe he gave her
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: a law of a leer. I don't know what's what's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: with that? Oh? I absolutely love all the rumors going
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: around about Camille Bascauz. You see, they are very touchy,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: very affectionate. But there is a theory that you know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: they aren't anything romantic, and that, if anything, it's a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: ploy that the jury can see that a very you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: well educated woman who's a very strong woman can see
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the good in Johnny Depp. But they have a good
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: relationship and if anything, it's a show for the jury
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: that you know, Johnny Depp is this good guy who's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: very likable and can be respectful towards women. I'm not
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: sure if there's anything actually going on, but Camille Lass
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: has come out as the star of this trial, especially
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: during her cross examination of Amber Heard. She was so fierce,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: so direct, and really really tripped Amber Heard up a lot.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I frankly don't care who he is sleeping with who,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: But what I do care is trial strategy. Daryl Cohen,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: do you remember the Menendez brothers trial where the female
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: defense attorney was all over them, like smoothing their sweaters,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and they're fixing their tie and picking limped off them
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and hugging them, humanizing them to a degree in front
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: of the jury, to make the jury look at that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: look here, not there, at the double murder, At the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: mother Menandez crawling down the hallway on her hands and
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: knees trying to get away from a viage of bullets
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and flicked it upon her by her own sons, the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Menandez brothers. Oh I remember it did it work? Though
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: it did not, I would say, h double L no,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: it did not. I agree, Nancy. But I'm back to
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Johnny's lawyer. I'm wondering why she makes so many objections
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that mean nothing other than having a draw right up
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the rhythm. Well, but there was no rhythm, and you
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and I have done this over and over again. She's
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: made objections when there was no rhythm, and I'm wondering
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: if there isn't something more to it than trial strategy.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's social strategy. Interesting because social media
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: did come into the trial. From the stand one witness
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: advice that Amber heard had lost roles because of unfavorable
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: social media, for instance hashtags like justice for Johnny and others,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: and because Johnny Depp's lawyer made disparaging comments about her,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: which they claim hurt her. With the movie studios. It's
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: all happening in a courtroom. As this trial seems to
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: be culminating, we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,