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6 Clear Signs You Might Have Food Addiction & What You Can Do · Metabolic Mind

0:00
Nobody
0:00
sits,
0:00
you
0:01
know,
0:01
and
0:01
just
0:01
eats
0:01
tobacco
0:02
leaves,
0:02
right?
0:02
So
0:03
like,
0:03
you
0:03
know,
0:03
cigarettes
0:04
are
0:04
addictive
0:05
not
0:05
because
0:06
they
0:06
come
0:07
from
0:07
plants.
0:07
It's
0:08
because
0:08
the
0:08
addictive
0:09
ingredient,
0:10
nicotine
0:10
has
0:10
been
0:11
concentrated,
0:11
extracted,
0:12
concentrated,
0:13
and
0:13
then
0:13
all
0:13
of
0:14
these
0:14
additives
0:15
have
0:15
been
0:15
like,
0:16
like
0:16
sugars
0:16
and
0:17
flavorings
0:17
have
0:18
been
0:18
added
0:18
to
0:18
make
0:18
them
0:19
even
0:19
more
0:19
palatable.
0:20
And
0:20
then
0:20
they've
0:20
been
0:21
made
0:21
abundantly
0:22
available
0:23
everywhere.
0:28
Welcome
0:29
to
0:29
the
0:29
Metabolic
0:29
Mind
0:30
Podcast.
0:30
I'm
0:30
your
0:31
host,
0:31
Dr.
0:31
Bret.
0:32
Metabolic
0:33
mind
0:33
is
0:33
a
0:33
non
0:33
profit
0:34
initiative
0:34
of
0:34
Bouzouki
0:35
Group
0:35
where
0:36
we're
0:36
providing
0:36
information
0:37
about
0:37
the
0:37
intersection
0:38
of
0:38
metabolic
0:39
health
0:39
and
0:39
mental
0:39
health
0:40
and
0:40
metabolic
0:41
therapies,
0:41
such
0:41
as
0:42
nutritional
0:42
ketosis
0:43
as
0:43
therapies
0:44
for
0:44
mental
0:44
illness.
0:45
Thank
0:45
you
0:45
for
0:45
joining
0:46
us.
0:46
Although
0:47
our
0:47
podcast
0:47
is
0:47
for
0:48
informational
0:48
purposes
0:49
only
0:49
and
0:49
we
0:49
aren't
0:50
giving
0:50
medical
0:50
advice,
0:51
we
0:51
hope
0:51
you
0:52
will
0:52
learn
0:52
from
0:52
our
0:52
content
0:53
and
0:53
it
0:53
will
0:53
help
0:53
facilitate
0:54
discussions
0:55
with
0:55
your
0:55
healthcare
0:56
providers
0:56
to
0:56
see
0:57
if
0:57
you
0:57
could
0:57
benefit
0:57
from
0:58
exploring
0:58
the
0:58
connection
0:59
between
0:59
metabolic
1:00
and
1:00
mental
1:00
health.
1:05
If
1:05
you've
1:06
ever
1:06
felt
1:06
out
1:06
of
1:06
control
1:07
around
1:07
food,
1:08
like
1:08
you
1:08
just
1:08
can't
1:09
stop
1:09
no
1:09
matter
1:09
how
1:10
hard
1:10
you
1:10
try,
1:11
you're
1:11
not
1:11
alone.
1:12
Today
1:12
on
1:13
Metabolic
1:13
Mind,
1:13
we're
1:14
talking
1:14
about
1:14
food
1:15
addiction,
1:15
what
1:15
it
1:15
is,
1:16
what
1:16
it
1:16
isn't,
1:17
and
1:17
how
1:17
real
1:18
healing
1:18
is
1:19
possible.
1:19
Whether
1:20
you've
1:20
battled
1:20
cravings,
1:21
shame,
1:22
or
1:22
even
1:22
the
1:22
cycle
1:23
of
1:23
starting
1:23
over
1:23
again,
1:24
this
1:24
episode's
1:25
for
1:25
you.
1:26
Joining
1:26
Dr.
1:26
Georgia
1:27
Ede
1:27
and
1:27
myself
1:28
is
1:28
Dr.
1:28
Jen
1:28
Unwin,
1:29
a
1:29
psychologist
1:30
with
1:30
over
1:30
30
1:30
years
1:31
of
1:31
experience
1:31
in
1:32
the
1:32
NHS
1:33
who's
1:33
become
1:33
one
1:33
of
1:33
the
1:33
pioneering
1:34
and
1:34
leading
1:35
voices
1:35
on
1:35
the
1:35
clinical
1:36
syndrome
1:36
of
1:36
ultra
1:37
processed
1:37
food
1:37
addiction.
1:38
She's
1:38
written
1:39
a
1:39
book,
1:39
she's
1:39
hosted
1:39
conferences,
1:40
and
1:41
she's
1:41
helping
1:41
people
1:41
understand
1:42
what
1:42
food
1:42
addiction
1:43
is,
1:43
what's
1:44
happening
1:44
in
1:44
our
1:44
bodies,
1:45
and
1:45
most
1:45
importantly,
1:46
the
1:46
hope
1:47
for
1:47
recovery
1:48
beyond
1:48
food
1:49
addiction.
1:49
So
1:50
I
1:50
hope
1:50
you
1:50
enjoy
1:50
this
1:51
interview
1:51
with
1:52
Dr.
1:52
Georgia
1:52
Ead
1:53
and
1:53
with
1:53
Dr.
1:54
Jen
1:54
Unwin.
1:54
Many
1:55
of
1:55
the
1:55
interventions
1:55
we
1:56
discuss
1:56
can
1:56
have
1:56
potentially
1:57
dangerous
1:57
effects
1:57
if
1:57
done
1:58
without
1:58
proper
1:58
supervision.
1:59
Consult
1:59
your
1:59
healthcare
2:00
provider
2:00
before
2:00
changing
2:01
your
2:01
lifestyle
2:01
or
2:02
medications.
2:02
In
2:03
addition,
2:03
it's
2:03
important
2:03
to
2:03
note
2:04
that.
2:04
People
2:04
may
2:04
respond
2:04
differently
2:05
to
2:05
ketosis
2:06
and
2:06
there
2:06
isn't
2:06
one
2:06
recognized
2:07
universal
2:08
response.
2:14
Well,
2:15
Jen,
2:15
thank
2:15
you
2:15
so
2:16
much
2:16
for
2:16
joining
2:16
me
2:17
in
2:17
Georgia
2:17
today.
2:17
It's
2:18
great
2:18
to
2:18
have
2:18
you
2:18
on
2:18
Metabolic
2:19
Mind.
2:19
Oh,
2:20
it's
2:20
a
2:20
pleasure.
2:20
Thanks
2:21
so
2:21
much
2:21
for
2:21
having
2:21
me.
2:22
Of
2:22
course.
2:22
Yeah,
2:23
I'm
2:23
really
2:23
excited
2:24
to
2:24
hear
2:25
all
2:25
about,
2:26
you
2:26
know,
2:26
sort
2:26
of
2:26
your
2:26
experience
2:27
and,
2:28
and
2:28
your
2:28
great
2:28
knowledge
2:29
about
2:29
food
2:30
addiction
2:31
and
2:31
how
2:32
it
2:32
impacts,
2:32
you
2:33
know,
2:33
people's
2:33
health
2:33
and
2:34
more
2:34
importantly,
2:34
the
2:34
what
2:34
we
2:35
can
2:35
do
2:35
about
2:35
it
2:35
as
2:35
well.
2:36
And
2:37
I
2:37
know,
2:37
Georgia,
2:37
you've
2:37
had
2:38
a
2:38
lot
2:38
of
2:38
experience
2:38
working
2:39
with
2:39
this
2:39
as
2:40
well.
2:40
So
2:40
I
2:41
think
2:41
we're
2:41
going
2:41
to
2:41
have
2:41
a
2:41
very
2:42
fruitful
2:43
discussion
2:43
here.
2:44
But
2:44
first,
2:44
Jen,
2:44
tell
2:45
us
2:45
why
2:45
you
2:46
got
2:46
interested
2:46
in
2:46
food
2:47
addiction.
2:47
How
2:47
it
2:47
got
2:47
on
2:48
your
2:48
radar
2:48
screen
2:48
and
2:48
how
2:49
it
2:49
became
2:49
such
2:49
a
2:49
passion
2:50
for
2:50
you.
2:50
Several
2:51
strands
2:51
really,
2:52
as
2:52
always
2:52
with
2:53
these
2:53
things.
2:53
So
2:55
I
2:55
now
2:56
understand,
2:56
of
2:56
course,
2:57
that
2:57
I
2:58
am
2:58
and
2:59
have
2:59
been
3:00
a
3:01
food
3:01
sugar
3:02
addict
3:03
all
3:03
my
3:03
life.
3:03
Really
3:04
as
3:04
long
3:04
as
3:04
I
3:04
can
3:04
remember.
3:05
As
3:05
a
3:05
small
3:06
girl,
3:06
I
3:07
was
3:07
very,
3:08
very
3:08
interested
3:09
in
3:09
sweets
3:10
and
3:11
when
3:11
I
3:11
could
3:11
get
3:11
some
3:12
sweets.
3:14
And
3:14
that
3:15
just
3:15
carried
3:15
on
3:15
into
3:16
an
3:16
experience
3:17
of
3:17
kind
3:18
of
3:18
weight
3:19
gain
3:19
and
3:20
then
3:20
all
3:20
kinds
3:21
of
3:21
weight
3:21
loss
3:22
attempts.
3:23
You
3:24
know,
3:24
I'm
3:24
sure
3:24
lots
3:24
of
3:24
people
3:25
listening
3:25
are
3:25
sort
3:25
of
3:26
identifying
3:27
with
3:27
that
3:27
themselves.
3:30
And
3:31
as
3:32
part
3:32
of
3:32
that
3:32
journey,
3:33
you
3:34
know,
3:34
Maybe
3:36
it's
3:36
about
3:36
15
3:36
years
3:37
ago
3:37
now,
3:37
I
3:37
did
3:38
discover
3:38
a
3:38
sort
3:39
of
3:39
low
3:39
carbohydrate
3:40
ketogenic
3:42
diet
3:42
kind
3:42
of,
3:43
you
3:43
know,
3:43
it
3:43
was
3:43
just
3:43
the,
3:43
the
3:44
next
3:44
thing
3:44
to
3:44
try.
3:47
And
3:47
that,
3:48
that
3:48
made
3:48
a
3:49
massive
3:49
difference
3:49
to
3:50
me
3:50
for
3:50
reasons
3:50
that
3:51
we're
3:51
probably
3:51
going
3:52
to
3:52
talk
3:52
about.
3:53
And
3:54
then
3:54
I
3:55
heard
3:55
Bitten
3:56
Janssen,
3:56
who
3:56
we
3:57
can
3:57
also
3:58
maybe
3:58
talk
3:58
about
3:59
some
3:59
more
3:59
if
3:59
there's
4:00
time,
4:01
on
4:01
a
4:02
diet
4:02
doctor
4:04
video
4:05
online
4:06
talking
4:06
about
4:06
sugar
4:07
addiction.
4:07
And
4:07
I
4:07
suddenly
4:08
thought
4:10
that's
4:10
what
4:10
it
4:10
is.
4:10
That's
4:11
what
4:11
explains
4:12
my
4:12
behavior.
4:14
I
4:14
suddenly
4:15
understood
4:16
it
4:17
in,
4:17
in
4:17
a
4:18
much
4:18
deeper
4:18
way
4:18
when
4:19
I
4:19
thought
4:19
of
4:19
the
4:20
concept
4:20
of
4:20
an,
4:21
of
4:21
addiction.
4:22
And
4:22
it
4:22
also
4:22
explained
4:23
a
4:23
lot
4:23
of
4:23
the
4:24
patients
4:24
behaviors.
4:25
And
4:28
what
4:28
was
4:28
kind
4:29
of
4:29
doubly
4:29
embarrassing
4:30
is
4:30
of
4:30
course
4:31
I'm
4:31
a
4:31
psychologist
4:32
by
4:32
training
4:32
and
4:32
I've
4:33
worked
4:33
with
4:33
addiction.
4:34
I,
4:34
you
4:34
know,
4:34
I,
4:35
I
4:35
understand
4:36
addiction
4:36
as
4:37
a
4:37
concept.
4:37
I
4:37
just
4:38
fall
4:39
all
4:39
kinds
4:40
of
4:40
reasons.
4:41
That
4:41
denial
4:42
and
4:43
the
4:43
fact
4:43
that
4:43
it
4:43
isn't
4:44
a
4:44
recognized
4:44
condition.
4:45
I've
4:45
never
4:45
sort
4:45
of
4:46
applied
4:46
that
4:47
concept
4:48
to
4:48
my
4:48
own
4:49
experience
4:49
or
4:49
to
4:49
the
4:50
experience
4:50
of
4:51
patients.
4:51
But
4:52
since
4:52
I've
4:53
started
4:54
doing
4:54
that,
4:55
it's
4:55
made
4:56
a
4:56
world
4:56
of
4:57
difference.
4:57
And
4:57
that's
4:58
why
4:58
I'm
4:59
now
4:59
so
4:59
passionate
5:00
about
5:01
spreading
5:01
that
5:02
concept
5:02
and
5:03
that
5:03
knowledge
5:04
and
5:04
that,
5:05
you
5:06
know,
5:06
what
5:06
are
5:06
the
5:06
effective
5:07
treatments
5:08
for
5:08
that.
5:08
Yeah,
5:09
that's
5:09
such
5:09
an
5:09
interesting
5:10
point
5:10
that
5:10
here
5:10
you
5:11
are
5:11
as
5:11
a
5:11
psychologist
5:12
and
5:12
you've
5:12
worked
5:12
in
5:12
addiction,
5:13
but
5:14
at
5:14
first
5:14
you
5:14
didn't
5:14
make
5:15
the
5:15
connection
5:15
between
5:15
addiction
5:16
and
5:16
food
5:16
addiction
5:17
because
5:17
it
5:18
hasn't
5:18
been
5:18
talked
5:18
about,
5:19
because
5:19
it's
5:19
not
5:20
a
5:20
recognized
5:21
diagnosis.
5:21
So
5:21
Georgia,
5:22
actually
5:22
let
5:22
me
5:22
bring
5:22
you
5:22
in
5:23
here.
5:23
So
5:23
how
5:23
do
5:23
we
5:24
differentiate
5:24
then
5:25
food
5:25
addiction
5:25
from
5:26
just
5:26
sort
5:26
of,
5:26
you
5:26
know,
5:27
disordered
5:27
eating,
5:27
emotional
5:28
eating?
5:28
And
5:28
why
5:28
isn't
5:29
it,
5:29
you
5:29
know,
5:30
a
5:30
diagnosis?
5:30
So
5:31
why
5:31
don't
5:31
you
5:31
start
5:32
and
5:32
then
5:32
we'll
5:32
go
5:32
over
5:32
to
5:32
Jen
5:33
to
5:33
Hear
5:33
her
5:33
perspective
5:34
as
5:34
well.
5:34
Right.
5:35
So
5:35
there
5:35
is
5:36
no
5:36
such
5:36
thing
5:36
currently
5:37
as
5:37
an
5:37
official
5:38
diagnosis
5:38
of
5:38
food
5:39
addiction
5:39
or
5:39
sugar
5:39
addiction
5:40
or
5:40
refined
5:40
carbohydrate
5:41
addiction
5:41
or
5:41
ultra
5:42
processed
5:42
food
5:42
addiction.
5:43
There
5:44
according
5:44
current,
5:45
to
5:45
the
5:45
current
5:45
DSM
5:46
5
5:46
and
5:46
to
5:47
the
5:47
current
5:48
International
5:49
Classification
5:50
of
5:50
Diseases
5:51
and
5:51
the
5:51
World
5:52
Health
5:52
Organization,
5:53
these
5:53
beasts
5:54
do
5:54
not
5:54
exist.
5:55
And
5:55
yet
5:56
we
5:56
see
5:56
them
5:56
every
5:57
day
5:57
right
5:57
in
5:58
front
5:58
of
5:58
our
5:58
very
5:58
eyes.
5:59
And
5:59
we,
5:59
even
6:00
many
6:00
of
6:00
them,
6:01
we
6:01
struggle
6:02
with
6:02
personally
6:03
ourselves
6:03
in
6:03
our
6:03
own
6:04
lives.
6:05
Dr.
6:05
Jen
6:05
Unwin
6:06
and
6:06
I
6:06
are
6:06
very
6:06
good
6:07
friends.
6:07
We
6:07
have
6:07
had
6:08
many
6:08
conversations
6:09
about
6:09
this.
6:09
We
6:09
both
6:10
identify
6:10
as
6:11
having
6:11
these
6:12
issues
6:12
going
6:12
all
6:13
the
6:13
way
6:13
back
6:13
to
6:13
our
6:13
childhood.
6:14
We
6:14
both
6:14
see
6:15
them
6:15
in
6:15
our
6:15
clinical
6:15
work
6:16
every
6:16
day.
6:17
And
6:18
as
6:18
Jen
6:18
likes
6:19
to
6:19
say,
6:19
you
6:19
know,
6:19
if
6:19
it
6:20
walks
6:20
like
6:20
a
6:20
duck
6:20
and
6:20
quacks
6:21
like
6:21
a
6:21
chicken,
6:21
it's
6:22
a
6:22
duck.
6:22
And
6:23
so
6:23
people
6:23
with
6:24
these
6:24
people,
6:25
people
6:26
self
6:26
identify,
6:27
people
6:27
know,
6:28
people
6:28
know
6:29
when
6:29
they
6:29
have
6:29
these
6:30
conditions,
6:30
they
6:30
will
6:30
come
6:30
in
6:31
and
6:31
say,
6:31
I'm
6:32
a
6:32
carboholic,
6:32
I'm
6:33
a
6:33
sugar
6:33
addict,
6:33
I'm
6:34
a
6:34
food
6:34
addict.
6:34
They
6:34
will
6:34
tell
6:35
me
6:35
before
6:36
I
6:36
even
6:36
start,
6:37
you
6:38
know,
6:38
doing
6:38
an
6:38
official
6:40
evaluation
6:40
of
6:41
whatever
6:41
it
6:41
is
6:41
they've
6:41
come
6:42
in
6:42
to
6:42
see
6:42
me
6:42
with.
6:43
Many
6:43
people
6:44
already
6:44
know
6:44
that
6:44
they
6:45
struggle
6:45
with
6:45
these
6:45
things.
6:46
But
6:46
one
6:47
of
6:47
the
6:47
reasons
6:47
why
6:49
Jen's
6:49
work
6:49
is
6:49
so
6:50
important
6:50
is
6:50
that
6:51
most
6:51
people
6:51
blame
6:52
themselves.
6:53
Most
6:53
people
6:53
think
6:54
that
6:54
these
6:54
issues
6:55
are
6:55
within
6:55
their
6:55
control,
6:56
that
6:57
it's
6:57
just
6:57
a
6:57
lack
6:57
of
6:58
willpower,
6:59
that
7:00
this
7:00
is
7:00
somehow
7:01
a
7:01
failing
7:01
on
7:01
their
7:01
part.
7:02
They
7:02
just
7:02
need
7:03
to
7:03
work
7:03
harder
7:03
at
7:03
it.
7:04
They
7:04
just
7:04
need
7:04
to
7:04
be
7:04
stronger.
7:06
And
7:07
you
7:07
know,
7:07
and,
7:08
and,
7:08
and
7:08
this
7:08
is,
7:09
this
7:09
is
7:09
not.
7:11
They're
7:11
never
7:12
given
7:12
a
7:12
biological
7:13
explanation
7:14
of
7:14
what's
7:14
going
7:15
on.
7:15
And
7:16
therefore
7:16
they're
7:16
never
7:17
given
7:17
the
7:17
tools
7:18
that
7:18
they
7:18
need
7:18
in
7:19
order
7:19
to
7:19
be
7:19
successful
7:20
in,
7:21
in
7:21
dealing
7:22
with
7:22
the
7:22
problem.
7:22
So
7:23
if
7:23
we
7:23
can't
7:24
point
7:24
to,
7:26
if
7:26
we
7:26
can't
7:26
identify
7:27
the
7:27
problem
7:27
specifically
7:28
we
7:28
want
7:28
to
7:29
get
7:29
to
7:29
what
7:30
is
7:30
the
7:30
addictive
7:31
substance
7:31
or
7:31
substances
7:32
that
7:32
people
7:32
are,
7:33
are
7:33
becoming
7:34
addicted
7:34
to.
7:36
Then
7:36
how
7:36
do
7:36
you
7:36
know
7:36
what
7:37
abstinence,
7:37
what
7:37
abstinence
7:38
looks
7:38
like?
7:38
How
7:39
do
7:39
you
7:39
know
7:39
what
7:39
it
7:39
is
7:39
you're
7:40
supposed
7:40
to
7:40
cut
7:40
down
7:41
on?
7:42
How,
7:42
what.
7:43
So
7:43
you're
7:44
not
7:44
going
7:44
to
7:44
have
7:44
a
7:44
fighting
7:45
chance
7:45
unless
7:45
you
7:46
have
7:47
some
7:47
real
7:47
biological
7:48
information
7:49
to
7:49
share
7:49
with
7:49
people.
7:50
Yeah,
7:50
and
7:50
that's
7:50
a
7:50
really
7:51
important
7:51
point
7:51
that,
7:52
that
7:52
we'll
7:53
definitely
7:53
get
7:53
into,
7:53
like
7:54
what
7:54
is
7:54
the
7:54
addictive
7:55
substance?
7:55
But,
7:56
but
7:56
before
7:56
we
7:57
get
7:57
into
7:57
that,
7:58
so,
7:59
so
7:59
a
7:59
lot
7:59
of
7:59
people
8:00
will
8:00
say,
8:01
yeah,
8:01
you
8:01
know,
8:01
when
8:02
I'm
8:02
really
8:02
emotional,
8:03
I'll
8:03
overeat
8:04
or,
8:05
you
8:05
know,
8:06
I
8:06
just,
8:06
I'll
8:06
have
8:06
moments
8:07
where
8:07
I
8:07
sort
8:07
of
8:08
Binge
8:08
and
8:08
eat,
8:08
eat
8:09
more
8:09
than
8:09
I
8:09
want.
8:09
And
8:10
in
8:10
those
8:11
moments
8:11
I
8:11
feel
8:12
like
8:12
I
8:12
can't
8:12
control
8:12
myself.
8:13
But
8:13
that
8:14
isn't
8:14
quite
8:14
food
8:14
addiction.
8:15
So
8:15
Jen,
8:15
how,
8:16
how
8:16
do
8:16
you
8:16
differentiate
8:17
food
8:17
addiction
8:18
from
8:18
those
8:19
types
8:19
of
8:19
behaviors?
8:20
Yeah,
8:21
absolutely.
8:21
And
8:21
of,
8:22
of
8:22
course,
8:22
all
8:23
human
8:23
behavior
8:23
is
8:24
on
8:24
a
8:24
continuum.
8:25
So
8:26
there
8:26
are
8:26
people
8:27
who,
8:27
who
8:27
struggle
8:28
from
8:28
time
8:28
to
8:28
time
8:29
or,
8:29
you
8:29
know,
8:29
have,
8:30
have
8:30
certain
8:30
kind
8:30
of
8:31
difficulties.
8:31
But
8:32
what
8:32
we're
8:32
really
8:33
talking
8:33
about
8:33
in
8:34
terms
8:34
of
8:34
a
8:34
sort
8:34
of
8:34
clinical
8:35
entity
8:36
of
8:36
ultra
8:37
processed
8:37
food
8:37
addiction
8:39
is
8:40
a
8:40
set
8:40
of
8:40
symptoms
8:41
that
8:43
just
8:43
completely
8:44
aligns
8:44
with
8:44
what
8:45
we
8:45
understand
8:46
to
8:47
be
8:47
substance
8:48
use
8:48
disorder
8:49
in,
8:50
as
8:50
George
8:50
was
8:51
saying,
8:51
the
8:51
ICD
8:52
and
8:52
the
8:53
dsm.
8:54
So
8:54
for
8:55
example,
8:55
if
8:55
we
8:55
take
8:56
the
8:56
six
8:57
criteria
8:57
that
8:58
the
8:58
World
8:58
Health
8:59
Organization
9:00
use
9:00
in
9:00
the
9:00
ICD
9:01
to
9:01
diagnose
9:03
substance
9:03
use
9:04
disorder,
9:05
and
9:05
we
9:05
think
9:05
about,
9:05
you
9:06
know,
9:06
do
9:06
those
9:07
things
9:07
apply
9:07
to,
9:08
to
9:09
food
9:10
related
9:10
behaviors,
9:11
the
9:11
sort
9:12
of
9:12
things
9:12
that
9:12
Georgia
9:13
and
9:13
I
9:13
have
9:13
experienced.
9:14
So
9:15
number
9:15
one
9:16
symptom
9:16
is
9:17
compulsions
9:18
to
9:19
eat
9:19
certain
9:19
foods
9:19
that
9:20
are
9:20
so
9:20
strong,
9:20
you
9:21
know,
9:21
cravings
9:21
and
9:21
compulsions
9:22
are
9:22
so
9:22
strong
9:23
you
9:23
can't
9:23
resist
9:24
them,
9:24
which
9:24
is
9:24
what
9:25
people
9:25
often
9:25
describe.
9:27
The
9:27
second
9:27
one
9:27
is
9:29
tolerance,
9:30
which
9:30
is,
9:31
you
9:31
know,
9:31
needing
9:32
more
9:32
and
9:33
more
9:33
of
9:34
the
9:34
substance
9:34
to
9:34
get
9:35
the
9:35
same
9:35
effect.
9:35
And
9:36
people
9:36
describe
9:36
that
9:36
with
9:37
food,
9:37
you
9:37
know,
9:37
just
9:38
having
9:38
to
9:39
eat
9:40
more
9:40
and
9:40
more
9:41
sugary
9:41
or
9:42
refined
9:42
carbohydrate
9:43
or
9:44
ultra
9:44
processed
9:44
foods
9:45
to,
9:45
to
9:45
sort
9:46
of,
9:46
you
9:46
know,
9:46
get,
9:47
get
9:47
that
9:47
effect
9:47
that
9:47
they're
9:48
looking
9:48
for.
9:50
The
9:50
third
9:51
symptom
9:51
is
9:52
a
9:52
sort
9:52
of
9:52
neglect
9:53
of
9:53
other
9:53
things
9:54
in
9:54
life
9:54
over
9:54
time
9:55
and
9:55
again.
9:56
You
9:56
know,
9:56
we
9:56
all
9:56
completely
9:57
understand
9:58
that,
9:58
say
9:59
with
9:59
alcohol
9:59
and
9:59
drugs
10:00
that
10:00
people
10:00
start
10:00
to
10:01
neglect,
10:02
maybe
10:02
work
10:03
or
10:03
family
10:04
or
10:05
hobbies.
10:05
But
10:05
I
10:06
mean,
10:06
you
10:06
do
10:06
see
10:06
that
10:07
in
10:07
people's
10:08
behavior
10:08
with
10:08
food
10:08
as
10:08
well,
10:09
that
10:10
the
10:10
getting
10:10
of
10:11
the
10:11
food,
10:11
the
10:11
eating
10:11
of
10:12
the
10:12
food
10:12
and
10:12
the
10:12
sort
10:13
of
10:13
recovering
10:13
from
10:13
it
10:14
starts
10:14
to
10:15
occupy
10:15
people's
10:16
minds
10:17
and
10:18
behaviors
10:19
for
10:19
a
10:20
lot
10:20
of
10:20
the
10:20
day.
10:22
The
10:23
fourth
10:23
one
10:24
is
10:24
a
10:25
loss
10:25
of
10:25
control
10:26
of
10:26
the
10:26
amount
10:27
of
10:28
the
10:28
substance.
10:28
And
10:29
I
10:29
mean,
10:29
really,
10:30
this
10:30
is
10:30
one
10:30
that
10:31
so
10:31
many
10:31
people
10:32
will
10:32
recognize
10:33
with
10:33
ultra
10:33
processed
10:34
food
10:34
that,
10:34
you
10:34
know,
10:34
you
10:35
kind
10:35
of
10:35
say
10:35
to
10:35
yourself,
10:36
well,
10:36
you
10:36
know,
10:36
the
10:36
family's
10:37
having
10:37
pizza,
10:37
I'm
10:38
just
10:38
gonna
10:38
have
10:38
one
10:38
slice,
10:39
cause
10:39
I'm
10:39
trying
10:39
to
10:39
be
10:39
healthy.
10:40
And
10:40
then,
10:40
you
10:40
know,
10:41
one
10:41
slice
10:41
leads
10:42
to
10:43
10
10:43
and
10:43
leads
10:43
to
10:44
a
10:44
bucket
10:44
of
10:44
ice
10:44
cream.
10:45
And
10:47
then
10:48
the
10:48
fifth
10:49
symptom
10:49
is
10:50
withdrawal.
10:51
So
10:51
if
10:52
you
10:52
try
10:52
and
10:52
cut
10:52
it
10:53
out,
10:53
you
10:54
get
10:55
either
10:56
sort
10:56
of
10:56
physiological
10:57
or
10:58
psychological
11:01
symptoms,
11:02
you
11:02
know,
11:02
like
11:02
gastrointestinal
11:03
symptoms,
11:04
maybe
11:05
headaches,
11:05
maybe
11:06
shakiness,
11:06
but
11:07
also,
11:07
you
11:08
know,
11:09
maybe
11:10
anxious
11:11
feelings,
11:11
maybe
11:12
poor
11:12
sleep,
11:13
you
11:13
know
11:13
these
11:13
typical
11:14
sort
11:14
of
11:14
things
11:15
that
11:15
people
11:15
describe.
11:16
And
11:16
then
11:17
the
11:17
sixth
11:17
symptom
11:18
is
11:20
continued
11:21
use
11:21
despite
11:23
knowledge
11:23
of
11:23
harm.
11:24
So,
11:25
I
11:25
mean,
11:26
that's
11:26
so,
11:27
so
11:27
typical
11:27
in
11:27
our
11:27
patients
11:28
with
11:28
type
11:28
2
11:28
diabetes
11:29
and
11:29
that
11:30
they
11:30
know
11:30
full
11:31
well
11:31
that
11:31
it's
11:32
not
11:32
a
11:32
great
11:32
idea
11:33
to
11:33
eat
11:33
refined
11:34
carbohydrates
11:35
and
11:35
sugary
11:35
foods,
11:36
and
11:37
yet
11:37
they
11:37
feel
11:38
powerless
11:38
to
11:38
stop
11:39
that.
11:39
They
11:39
know
11:39
it's
11:39
doing
11:40
them
11:40
harm,
11:40
but
11:40
they
11:41
carry
11:41
on.
11:41
So
11:41
there's
11:42
those
11:42
six
11:42
symptoms.
11:43
And
11:44
to
11:44
sort
11:44
of
11:44
meet
11:45
the
11:45
criteria
11:45
of,
11:46
you
11:46
know,
11:47
a
11:47
probable
11:47
diagnosis
11:48
of
11:48
a
11:48
substance
11:49
use
11:49
disorder,
11:50
you'd
11:50
need
11:50
three
11:51
out
11:51
of
11:51
six.
11:52
Yeah.
11:52
So
11:52
as
11:52
you're
11:53
listing
11:53
these
11:53
off,
11:53
I'm
11:54
sure
11:54
people
11:54
listening
11:54
are
11:55
so
11:55
many
11:55
are
11:55
going
11:55
check,
11:55
check,
11:56
check,
11:56
check,
11:56
check.
11:57
Especially
11:57
the
11:58
one
11:58
that
11:58
you.
11:59
Where
11:59
you
11:59
mentioned
12:00
inability
12:00
to
12:01
control
12:01
it.
12:01
And
12:01
I
12:01
imagine
12:02
that's
12:02
what's
12:02
so
12:03
frustrating
12:03
for
12:03
people
12:04
and
12:04
sort
12:05
of
12:05
this
12:05
feeling
12:05
of
12:06
almost
12:06
helplessness
12:07
around
12:07
it.
12:08
So
12:08
is
12:09
that
12:09
something
12:09
you
12:09
see
12:09
often
12:11
helpless?
12:12
Oh,
12:12
yeah,
12:12
absolutely.
12:13
It's
12:13
kind
12:13
of
12:13
a
12:13
hallmark
12:14
of
12:14
the
12:14
thing
12:15
where
12:15
people
12:15
are
12:15
ashamed.
12:16
They
12:16
hide
12:16
it,
12:17
you
12:17
know,
12:17
they,
12:18
they.
12:18
They
12:18
hide
12:18
it
12:19
from
12:19
the.
12:19
Their
12:19
families.
12:20
They'll
12:20
hide
12:20
the.
12:21
Have
12:21
secret
12:21
stash
12:22
of
12:22
the
12:22
food,
12:22
you
12:23
know,
12:23
so
12:23
embarrassed.
12:23
They're
12:24
kind
12:24
of
12:24
trying
12:24
to
12:24
hide
12:25
it
12:25
in
12:25
the,
12:25
in
12:25
the
12:26
bin
12:26
so
12:26
nobody
12:26
sees
12:27
the
12:27
wrappers,
12:27
you
12:28
know,
12:28
feel
12:29
like,
12:30
you
12:30
say,
12:31
hopeless
12:31
and
12:31
helpless
12:32
about
12:32
anything
12:33
ever
12:33
being
12:33
different.
12:33
Because
12:34
usually,
12:34
like
12:34
me,
12:35
they,
12:35
they
12:35
tried,
12:36
you
12:36
know,
12:37
kind
12:37
of
12:37
every,
12:38
every
12:38
scheme
12:38
that
12:39
comes
12:39
along,
12:39
you
12:40
know,
12:40
that,
12:40
that
12:41
every
12:41
new,
12:41
every
12:42
new
12:42
regime
12:42
that
12:43
pops
12:43
up.
12:43
And
12:43
so
12:43
we'll
12:44
definitely
12:44
get
12:44
into
12:44
some
12:44
of
12:45
the
12:45
strategies
12:45
to
12:45
help
12:46
with
12:46
this.
12:46
But
12:46
first
12:47
I
12:47
want
12:47
to
12:47
go
12:47
back,
12:47
Georgia,
12:48
to
12:48
what
12:48
you
12:48
said.
12:49
Until
12:50
we
12:50
have
12:50
an
12:50
understanding
12:51
of
12:51
sort
12:52
of
12:52
what
12:52
the
12:53
addictive
12:53
substance
12:54
is
12:54
or
12:54
how
12:54
to,
12:54
you
12:55
know,
12:55
better
12:55
define
12:55
it
12:56
to
12:56
what,
12:57
then
12:57
it's
12:58
going
12:58
to
12:58
face
12:58
challenges
12:59
of
12:59
becoming
12:59
a
13:00
diagnosis.
13:00
So
13:01
I
13:01
started
13:01
this
13:01
conversation
13:02
by
13:02
saying
13:02
food
13:03
addiction.
13:03
Jen,
13:04
you
13:04
said
13:04
ultra
13:05
processed
13:05
food
13:05
addiction.
13:06
Georgia,
13:06
you've
13:07
thrown
13:07
in
13:07
sugar
13:08
addiction,
13:08
refined
13:08
carb
13:09
addiction.
13:09
So
13:10
what
13:10
is
13:10
it?
13:10
How
13:11
do
13:11
we
13:11
decide
13:11
what
13:12
this
13:12
is?
13:13
This
13:13
is
13:13
the
13:13
great
13:13
debate
13:14
of
13:14
our
13:14
times.
13:14
Are
13:15
you
13:15
trying
13:16
to
13:16
understand?
13:17
I
13:17
mean,
13:17
I
13:17
think
13:17
this
13:17
is
13:18
part
13:18
of
13:18
what
13:18
interferes
13:19
with
13:19
the
13:19
ability
13:20
to
13:20
get
13:20
this.
13:21
These
13:21
problems
13:22
recognized
13:22
as
13:23
official
13:23
mental
13:24
health
13:24
disorders
13:25
is
13:26
that
13:26
there
13:26
is
13:26
no
13:27
consensus
13:27
around
13:28
what
13:28
the
13:28
addictive
13:29
substance
13:30
or
13:30
substances
13:31
are.
13:32
And
13:33
so
13:33
there
13:34
have
13:34
been
13:34
debates
13:34
at
13:34
multiple
13:35
conferences
13:35
and
13:36
workshops
13:36
around
13:36
this.
13:37
And
13:38
there's
13:38
an
13:38
argument
13:39
to
13:39
be
13:39
made
13:40
that
13:40
many
13:40
different
13:42
elements
13:42
of
13:42
the
13:43
ultra
13:43
processing
13:44
process,
13:45
the
13:45
process
13:46
of
13:46
processing
13:46
food
13:47
additives
13:48
and
13:49
flavors
13:49
and
13:49
textures
13:50
and
13:51
ultra
13:51
refining
13:52
and
13:52
concentrating
13:53
and
13:53
so
13:53
forth,
13:54
and
13:54
even
13:54
the
13:55
packaging
13:55
and
13:55
coloring
13:56
can
13:57
make
13:57
foods
13:58
ultra
13:59
palatable
13:59
and
14:00
virtually
14:01
impossible
14:01
for
14:02
many
14:02
people
14:02
to
14:02
resist.
14:04
So
14:05
it
14:05
makes
14:05
it
14:05
difficult
14:05
to
14:06
pinpoint
14:06
one
14:06
particular,
14:08
one
14:08
particular
14:08
ingredient.
14:09
I
14:10
personally
14:11
think
14:11
that
14:12
the
14:12
easiest,
14:13
the
14:14
easiest
14:14
ingredient
14:15
to
14:16
hang
14:16
our
14:16
hats
14:17
on
14:17
are
14:18
the,
14:18
are
14:18
the
14:18
refined
14:19
carbohydrates,
14:20
because
14:21
they
14:21
are
14:21
the
14:22
ingredients
14:23
that
14:23
produce
14:23
that
14:24
dopamine
14:25
signature,
14:25
that,
14:25
that
14:26
sharp
14:26
spike
14:27
in
14:27
glucose
14:28
that
14:28
gives
14:28
you
14:28
that
14:29
sharp,
14:29
unnaturally
14:30
high
14:30
glucose
14:31
spike,
14:31
unnaturally
14:32
steep
14:33
and,
14:33
and
14:34
then
14:34
the
14:34
unnaturally
14:35
steep
14:35
spike
14:35
in
14:35
dopamine
14:36
that
14:36
you
14:36
can
14:36
get
14:37
from
14:37
any
14:37
other
14:37
kind
14:38
of
14:38
addictive
14:39
substance
14:39
when
14:39
it's
14:39
concentrated.
14:40
The
14:40
problem
14:41
that
14:41
a
14:41
lot
14:41
of
14:41
critics
14:41
point
14:42
out
14:42
about
14:42
pointing
14:43
to
14:43
sugar,
14:44
for
14:44
example,
14:44
or
14:45
flour
14:45
as
14:46
an
14:46
addictive
14:46
substance
14:47
is,
14:47
well,
14:47
it
14:47
comes
14:47
from
14:47
food
14:48
and
14:48
we
14:48
need
14:48
food
14:48
and
14:49
of
14:49
course
14:49
the
14:49
brain
14:49
is
14:49
going
14:50
to
14:50
look
14:50
for
14:50
these
14:50
things.
14:51
But
14:51
just
14:51
like
14:51
any
14:52
other
14:53
addictive
14:53
substance,
14:54
if
14:55
you
14:55
eat
14:55
it
14:55
in
14:55
nature,
14:56
if
14:56
you're
14:56
eating
14:56
a
14:56
banana
14:57
or
14:57
if
14:57
you're
14:57
eating
14:57
a
14:57
potato
14:59
and
14:59
you
15:00
never
15:00
get
15:00
exposed
15:01
to
15:01
ultra
15:02
concentrated,
15:03
ultra
15:03
refined
15:04
sources
15:04
of
15:05
refined
15:05
carbohydrate
15:07
that
15:07
have,
15:08
that
15:08
have
15:08
had
15:08
their
15:08
fiber
15:09
stripped
15:09
away,
15:09
their
15:10
water
15:10
removed,
15:10
et
15:11
cetera,
15:12
then,
15:12
then
15:13
you
15:13
may
15:13
never
15:13
become
15:14
addicted
15:14
to
15:14
those
15:14
things.
15:15
But
15:15
once
15:15
you,
15:16
once
15:16
you
15:16
are
15:16
exposed
15:17
to
15:17
the
15:18
ultra,
15:18
the,
15:19
the
15:19
concentrated
15:21
high
15:21
amounts
15:22
of
15:22
these
15:22
ingredients
15:23
and
15:23
an
15:23
unnaturally
15:24
unnatural
15:25
amount,
15:25
it's
15:26
really
15:26
the
15:26
dose
15:27
and
15:27
the
15:27
delivery
15:28
and
15:28
the
15:28
quick
15:29
absorption
15:29
rate
15:30
that
15:30
make
15:30
them
15:30
addictive.
15:31
And
15:31
there's
15:32
a
15:32
wonderful
15:32
presentation
15:33
by
15:33
Dr.
15:34
Ashley
15:34
Gerhardt,
15:35
who's
15:35
one
15:35
of
15:36
the
15:36
scientists
15:36
in
15:37
this
15:37
field,
15:37
who
15:38
says,
15:38
you
15:38
know,
15:38
nobody
15:39
sits,
15:39
you
15:39
know,
15:39
and
15:40
just
15:40
eats
15:40
tobacco
15:40
leaves,
15:41
right?
15:41
So,
15:41
like,
15:42
you
15:42
know,
15:42
cigarettes
15:43
are
15:43
addictive
15:44
not
15:44
because
15:45
they,
15:45
they
15:45
come
15:46
from
15:46
plants
15:46
and,
15:47
you
15:47
know,
15:48
it's
15:48
because
15:49
the
15:49
addictive
15:50
ingredient,
15:50
nicotine,
15:51
has
15:51
been
15:51
concentrated,
15:52
extracted,
15:53
concentrated.
15:54
And
15:54
then
15:54
all
15:54
of
15:55
these
15:55
additives
15:56
have
15:56
been
15:56
like,
15:57
like
15:57
sugars
15:57
and
15:58
flavorings
15:59
have
15:59
been
15:59
added
15:59
to
15:59
make
15:59
them
16:00
even
16:00
more
16:00
palatable
16:01
and,
16:01
and
16:01
then
16:01
they've
16:02
been
16:02
made
16:03
abundantly
16:03
available
16:04
everywhere
16:05
and
16:05
then
16:05
you
16:05
smoke
16:05
them
16:06
and
16:06
that
16:06
gives
16:06
you
16:06
that
16:07
ultra
16:08
rapid
16:08
delivery
16:09
of
16:09
nicotine
16:09
into
16:09
your
16:10
bloodstream.
16:11
So
16:11
I
16:11
think,
16:11
you
16:12
know,
16:12
sugar
16:12
really
16:13
blurs
16:13
that
16:13
line
16:14
between
16:14
food
16:14
and
16:15
drug
16:15
just
16:15
enough
16:16
that
16:17
it
16:17
makes
16:17
it
16:17
very
16:18
difficult
16:18
to
16:19
get
16:19
everybody
16:19
on
16:19
the
16:20
same
16:20
page
16:20
about
16:21
whether
16:21
or
16:21
not
16:21
it's
16:22
addictive.
16:22
What
16:23
do
16:23
you
16:23
think,
16:23
Jen?
16:23
Do
16:23
you
16:23
agree
16:24
or
16:24
do
16:24
you
16:24
have
16:24
any
16:24
areas
16:24
to
16:24
push
16:25
back
16:25
on
16:25
that
16:25
or
16:26
change?
16:26
Yeah,
16:27
yeah,
16:28
no,
16:28
I
16:28
mostly
16:28
agree
16:28
with
16:29
all
16:29
of
16:29
that.
16:29
We
16:29
did.
16:31
So
16:31
we
16:31
made
16:31
a
16:32
submission
16:32
to
16:32
the
16:32
WHO
16:33
to
16:33
have
16:36
essentially
16:36
food
16:36
addiction
16:37
recognised
16:38
as
16:38
an
16:38
addictive
16:39
disorder
16:39
in
16:40
2022.
16:40
And
16:40
we
16:41
got
16:41
a
16:41
response
16:42
back.
16:42
Obviously
16:42
we
16:43
weren't
16:43
successful.
16:43
We
16:44
weren't
16:44
particularly
16:44
surprised
16:45
about
16:46
that.
16:46
But
16:46
it
16:46
was
16:46
interesting
16:47
to
16:47
see
16:48
what
16:48
the
16:48
response
16:49
was
16:49
from
16:49
the
16:49
WHO
16:50
so
16:50
we
16:50
could
16:50
sort
16:51
of
16:51
address
16:51
those
16:52
issues.
16:52
And
16:52
one
16:53
of
16:53
the
16:53
things
16:53
that
16:53
they
16:53
said
16:54
was
16:54
there's
16:54
no
16:54
consensus,
16:56
which
16:56
is
16:57
absolutely
16:58
right
16:59
and
17:00
remains
17:01
contentious.
17:01
But
17:02
we
17:02
did
17:02
a
17:02
consensus
17:03
exercise
17:03
that
17:04
we've
17:04
just
17:04
published
17:04
in
17:05
Frontiers
17:05
in
17:05
psychiatry
17:07
involving
17:09
40
17:10
experts
17:11
from
17:11
10
17:12
different
17:12
countries
17:12
who
17:13
were
17:13
clinicians,
17:15
researchers,
17:15
academics
17:16
who
17:17
are
17:17
working
17:17
in
17:17
this
17:18
field.
17:19
Georgia
17:19
was
17:19
one
17:20
of
17:20
them,
17:20
I
17:20
think.
17:21
Yes,
17:22
I
17:22
think
17:22
so.
17:23
She's
17:23
nodding
17:23
yes.
17:25
And
17:27
the
17:28
consensus
17:28
that
17:30
37
17:31
could
17:31
agree.
17:32
And
17:32
in
17:32
fact,
17:33
I
17:33
know
17:33
for
17:33
a
17:34
fact
17:34
that
17:35
one
17:35
of
17:36
the
17:36
others
17:36
has
17:36
kind
17:37
of
17:37
since
17:37
changed
17:37
their
17:37
mind,
17:38
but
17:38
we've
17:38
published
17:39
it,
17:39
so
17:39
it
17:40
was
17:40
too
17:40
late.
17:40
So
17:41
38,
17:41
essentially
17:43
of
17:43
those
17:44
experts
17:45
could
17:46
agree
17:46
around
17:47
the
17:47
term
17:47
ultra
17:48
process.
17:51
Food.
17:51
Use
17:51
disorder,
17:52
if
17:52
you
17:52
like,
17:52
so
17:53
old
17:53
processed
17:54
food
17:54
addiction,
17:55
because,
17:56
as
17:56
Georgia
17:57
says,
17:57
that
17:57
kind
17:57
of
17:57
points
17:58
the
17:58
finger
17:58
where
17:59
the
17:59
finger
17:59
needs
18:00
pointing,
18:01
which
18:01
is
18:02
these
18:02
very
18:02
refined
18:03
foods
18:04
that
18:04
are
18:04
high
18:05
in,
18:05
you
18:05
know,
18:06
refined
18:06
carbohydrates
18:08
and
18:09
sugars
18:09
and,
18:10
you
18:10
know,
18:11
these
18:11
sort
18:11
of
18:11
colorful
18:12
foods
18:12
in
18:12
colorful
18:13
packages
18:13
that
18:14
just
18:14
hijack
18:15
the
18:15
reward
18:16
center,
18:16
basically.
18:17
Now,
18:17
I
18:17
mean,
18:17
obviously
18:18
we
18:18
have
18:18
quite
18:19
a
18:19
bit
18:19
of
18:19
evidence
18:20
for
18:21
sugar.
18:21
Sugar
18:22
as
18:22
a.
18:22
As
18:23
a.
18:23
As
18:23
a
18:23
culprit
18:24
for
18:24
lighting
18:25
up
18:25
the
18:25
brain
18:25
in
18:25
the
18:25
same
18:26
way
18:26
as
18:26
other
18:27
addictive
18:27
substances,
18:28
giving
18:28
us
18:28
that
18:28
big
18:29
sort
18:29
of
18:29
hit
18:30
of
18:30
dopamine,
18:31
which
18:31
is
18:32
sort
18:33
of
18:33
unnatural
18:34
to
18:34
the
18:34
way
18:34
that
18:35
we
18:35
have
18:35
evolved.
18:36
So
18:36
I
18:36
totally
18:37
agree
18:37
with
18:37
what
18:38
Georgia
18:38
said,
18:38
is
18:39
that
18:39
we're
18:39
trying
18:39
now
18:40
to
18:41
encourage
18:41
people
18:41
to
18:42
use
18:42
that
18:42
term
18:43
and
18:43
to
18:43
publish
18:43
papers
18:44
using
18:44
the
18:45
term
18:45
ultra
18:45
processed
18:46
food
18:46
addiction,
18:46
because
18:47
if
18:47
we
18:47
don't
18:48
all
18:49
get
18:49
behind
18:49
one
18:50
term,
18:51
I
18:51
think
18:51
it
18:52
allows
18:52
the
18:52
naysayers
18:53
to
18:55
say,
18:55
well,
18:56
they
18:56
can't
18:56
even
18:56
agree,
18:58
blah,
18:58
blah,
18:58
blah,
18:59
all
18:59
the
18:59
sort
19:00
of
19:00
smoke
19:00
and
19:00
mirrors
19:01
that
19:01
happened
19:01
exactly
19:02
with
19:02
cigarettes
19:05
in
19:05
the
19:05
past.
19:05
So
19:06
that.
19:06
So
19:06
that,
19:08
you
19:08
know,
19:08
people
19:08
didn't.
19:10
Weren't
19:10
able
19:11
to
19:11
sort
19:11
of
19:12
recognize
19:13
the
19:14
harmful
19:14
nature
19:15
of
19:16
that
19:16
refined
19:17
substance.
19:18
And
19:18
so
19:19
that,
19:19
you
19:19
know,
19:19
there
19:19
was
19:20
appropriate
19:20
sort
19:21
of
19:21
public
19:21
health
19:22
action.
19:23
And
19:23
it
19:23
makes
19:23
a
19:24
lot
19:24
of
19:24
sense
19:24
to
19:24
have
19:24
to
19:25
agree
19:25
on
19:25
the
19:25
definition
19:26
and
19:26
agree
19:26
on
19:26
the
19:26
substance,
19:27
because
19:27
people
19:27
need
19:27
to
19:28
know,
19:28
what
19:28
do
19:28
I
19:28
avoid?
19:29
Right.
19:29
Do
19:30
I
19:30
need
19:30
to
19:30
avoid
19:31
homemade
19:32
lemonade,
19:32
right.
19:32
Which
19:33
is
19:33
not
19:33
ultra
19:33
processed
19:34
but
19:34
has
19:34
sugar
19:35
in
19:35
it,
19:35
or
19:35
even
19:35
a
19:36
homemade
19:36
cookie
19:36
which
19:36
is
19:37
not
19:37
ultra
19:38
processed
19:38
but
19:38
has
19:39
sugar
19:39
in
19:39
it.
19:39
So
19:40
do
19:40
you
19:41
think
19:41
it.
19:41
For
19:42
now,
19:42
we're
19:42
kind
19:43
of
19:43
getting
19:43
into
19:43
the
19:43
treatment
19:44
a
19:44
little
19:44
bit.
19:44
Does
19:44
it.
19:45
Does
19:45
it
19:45
have
19:45
to
19:46
be
19:46
like,
19:46
avoid
19:47
all
19:47
sugar,
19:48
Avoid
19:48
anything
19:49
with
19:49
sugar
19:49
in
19:49
it?
19:49
Or
19:50
can
19:50
it
19:50
be.
19:50
Avoid
19:51
the
19:51
ultra
19:51
processed
19:52
formulated
19:54
products
19:55
that
19:55
have
19:55
sugar
19:56
in
19:56
it?
19:56
Again,
19:56
you
19:57
know,
19:57
obviously
19:57
there's
19:57
a
19:58
spread
19:58
of
19:58
experience.
19:59
And
20:00
every
20:01
person
20:01
will
20:02
find
20:02
their
20:02
sort
20:02
of
20:03
unique
20:04
abstinence,
20:04
if
20:05
you
20:05
like.
20:05
But
20:06
it's
20:06
nearly
20:07
always
20:07
sugars,
20:08
refined
20:09
grains,
20:09
and
20:09
ultra
20:10
processed
20:10
food.
20:11
I
20:11
don't
20:11
think
20:11
I've
20:12
found
20:13
someone
20:13
who
20:13
was
20:13
a
20:14
true
20:14
sort
20:14
of
20:15
food
20:15
addict
20:16
who
20:16
was
20:16
able
20:16
to
20:16
get
20:17
into
20:17
a
20:17
solid
20:17
recovery
20:18
without
20:18
avoiding
20:19
all
20:19
sugars,
20:20
refined
20:21
grains,
20:21
and
20:22
ultra
20:22
processed
20:22
foods.
20:24
That
20:24
seems
20:25
to
20:25
be
20:25
the
20:25
sort
20:25
of
20:26
the
20:27
bottom
20:27
line
20:27
really.
20:27
And
20:28
I,
20:28
I
20:29
mean,
20:29
I
20:29
personally
20:29
would
20:29
probably
20:30
chuck
20:30
sweeteners
20:31
in
20:31
there
20:31
as
20:31
well,
20:31
because
20:31
I
20:32
see
20:32
them
20:32
as
20:32
sort
20:32
of
20:33
ultra
20:34
processed
20:34
because
20:34
they
20:34
usually
20:35
sort
20:35
of,
20:35
you
20:36
know,
20:36
chemical
20:36
or,
20:37
you
20:37
know,
20:37
even
20:37
if
20:37
it's
20:38
something
20:38
like
20:38
stevia.
20:39
Well,
20:39
again,
20:39
we're
20:40
back
20:40
to
20:40
this
20:40
issue
20:40
of,
20:41
you
20:41
know,
20:41
people,
20:42
people
20:42
were
20:42
chewing
20:43
on
20:43
stevia
20:43
leaves.
20:44
Yes.
20:44
But
20:44
they
20:44
weren't,
20:45
you
20:45
know,
20:45
having
20:45
this
20:46
refined
20:47
white
20:47
powder
20:48
which
20:48
has
20:48
this
20:48
intense
20:49
sweetness
20:50
and
20:50
that
20:51
if,
20:51
as
20:52
Georgia
20:52
was
20:52
saying,
20:52
if,
20:53
if,
20:53
if
20:53
you,
20:54
if
20:54
you
20:54
weren't
20:54
a
20:54
food
20:55
addict,
20:55
if
20:55
you
20:56
haven't
20:56
got
20:56
to
20:56
that
20:56
point,
20:57
then
20:57
probably
20:57
you
20:57
can
20:58
cope
20:58
with
20:58
a
20:58
bit
20:58
of
20:58
stevia
20:59
and,
20:59
and,
20:59
you
21:00
know,
21:00
not,
21:00
not
21:01
lose
21:01
control
21:01
of
21:01
your
21:02
behavior.
21:02
But
21:03
for
21:03
people
21:03
who've
21:04
already
21:05
rewired
21:05
the
21:05
brain
21:06
for
21:07
food
21:07
addiction,
21:08
then
21:11
oftentimes
21:12
when
21:12
they're
21:12
exposed
21:12
to
21:13
sweeteners,
21:13
then
21:13
those
21:14
sort
21:14
of
21:14
behaviors
21:15
of
21:15
the
21:15
cravings
21:16
and
21:16
the
21:17
sort
21:17
of
21:17
compulsions
21:18
to
21:18
eat
21:19
will
21:20
kind
21:20
of
21:21
rear
21:22
the
21:22
head
21:22
again.
21:23
So
21:23
that
21:23
would
21:24
be
21:24
my
21:24
sort
21:24
of
21:25
basic
21:26
program.
21:26
Yeah.
21:27
Georgia,
21:27
what
21:27
do
21:27
you
21:27
think
21:27
about
21:27
artificial
21:28
sweeteners?
21:28
Because
21:28
they
21:29
don't
21:29
raise
21:29
glucose
21:30
like
21:30
you
21:30
mentioned
21:30
before
21:31
about
21:31
the
21:31
refined
21:32
carbs
21:32
and
21:32
the,
21:33
and
21:33
the
21:33
sugars,
21:33
but
21:34
they
21:34
can
21:34
still
21:34
trigger
21:35
the
21:35
brain.
21:35
Do
21:35
you
21:36
find
21:36
that
21:36
they
21:36
act
21:36
similarly?
21:37
It
21:37
depends
21:38
on
21:38
the
21:38
person.
21:38
And
21:39
so
21:40
in
21:40
clinical
21:40
experience,
21:41
there
21:41
are
21:41
people
21:41
who
21:42
are
21:42
very
21:42
triggered
21:43
by
21:43
sweeteners,
21:44
whether
21:44
they're
21:44
natural
21:44
or
21:45
artificial,
21:46
because
21:47
that
21:47
sort
21:47
of
21:48
starts
21:48
lighting
21:48
up
21:48
your
21:48
reward
21:49
system.
21:50
And
21:50
other
21:50
people
21:51
who
21:51
find
21:51
them
21:51
very
21:52
useful,
21:53
certain
21:54
types
21:54
of
21:54
sweeteners
21:55
anyway,
21:55
very
21:55
useful
21:56
in
21:57
following
21:57
their
21:57
recovery
21:58
plan.
21:59
And,
21:59
and
22:00
this
22:00
is
22:00
where
22:00
some
22:01
personalization
22:01
comes
22:02
in
22:02
and
22:03
getting
22:03
to
22:03
know
22:03
oneself
22:04
and,
22:04
you
22:04
know,
22:04
where,
22:05
where
22:05
one
22:05
needs
22:06
to
22:06
draw
22:06
the
22:06
line
22:06
for
22:07
themselves.
22:07
So
22:07
some
22:08
people
22:08
find
22:08
them
22:09
a
22:09
really
22:09
useful
22:09
tool.
22:10
For
22:10
others,
22:10
they
22:11
are
22:11
a
22:11
slippery
22:11
slope.
22:12
And
22:12
then
22:13
different
22:13
sweeteners
22:14
can
22:14
behave
22:14
differently
22:14
for
22:14
different
22:15
people
22:15
too.
22:16
So,
22:16
and
22:17
this
22:17
question,
22:18
just
22:18
circling
22:19
back
22:19
to
22:19
this
22:19
really
22:20
interesting
22:20
point
22:20
you
22:21
made
22:21
a
22:21
couple
22:21
of
22:21
minutes
22:22
ago,
22:22
Brett,
22:22
about,
22:22
well,
22:23
homemade
22:24
lemonade
22:24
that,
22:25
you
22:25
know,
22:25
kids
22:25
are
22:25
selling
22:25
on
22:26
the
22:26
sidewalk,
22:26
well,
22:26
that's
22:27
not
22:27
ultra
22:27
processed.
22:28
So
22:28
how
22:28
do
22:28
you
22:28
know
22:28
where
22:28
to
22:28
draw
22:29
the
22:29
line?
22:29
And
22:30
if
22:30
you
22:30
call,
22:30
if
22:31
you
22:31
call
22:31
this
22:31
an
22:31
ultra
22:32
processed
22:32
food
22:32
addiction,
22:33
then
22:33
isn't
22:33
homemade
22:33
Lemonade.
22:34
Fine.
22:35
And
22:35
this
22:36
is,
22:36
this
22:36
is
22:36
exactly
22:37
the
22:37
kind
22:37
of
22:37
problem
22:38
that
22:38
we
22:38
run
22:38
into
22:39
all
22:39
the
22:39
time.
22:39
And
22:39
I
22:39
would
22:40
just
22:41
kind
22:41
of
22:41
point
22:42
out
22:42
that
22:43
crystalline
22:43
sugar
22:44
does
22:44
not
22:44
exist
22:44
in
22:45
nature.
22:45
You
22:45
can't
22:45
walk
22:46
through
22:46
the
22:46
forest
22:46
or
22:46
a
22:47
field
22:47
and
22:47
find
22:47
a
22:48
little
22:48
pile
22:48
of
22:48
sugar.
22:49
That's
22:49
just
22:49
not
22:49
how
22:49
it
22:50
works.
22:50
You
22:50
have
22:51
to
22:51
extract
22:51
it.
22:52
And
22:52
it
22:52
takes
22:52
an
22:52
awful
22:52
lot
22:53
of
22:53
labor
22:53
to
22:53
extract
22:54
it
22:54
from,
22:54
from,
22:54
from
22:55
cane,
22:55
from
22:56
sugar.
22:56
Cane
22:56
sugar.
22:57
So
22:57
it,
22:57
it
22:57
is
22:58
a
22:58
processed
22:59
ingredient
22:59
that
22:59
is
23:00
not
23:00
found
23:01
in,
23:01
in
23:01
a
23:02
significant
23:02
amount
23:03
in,
23:03
in
23:03
nature.
23:03
And
23:04
so
23:05
this
23:05
is
23:05
where
23:06
it
23:06
can
23:06
be
23:07
useful
23:07
for
23:07
people
23:07
to
23:08
understand
23:09
what
23:10
a
23:10
whole
23:10
food
23:10
actually
23:11
is.
23:11
Because
23:12
we
23:12
talk
23:12
all
23:12
the
23:13
time
23:13
about
23:13
whole
23:13
foods
23:14
principles
23:14
and
23:14
whole
23:14
foods
23:15
principles
23:15
are
23:15
very
23:16
powerful.
23:17
But
23:17
most
23:18
people,
23:18
like,
23:18
let's
23:18
say
23:18
you
23:19
walk
23:19
into
23:19
a
23:19
Whole
23:19
foods
23:20
grocery
23:20
store.
23:21
I
23:21
don't
23:21
think
23:21
you
23:21
have
23:21
these
23:22
in
23:22
the
23:23
uk,
23:23
Jen,
23:23
but
23:23
you
23:24
probably
23:24
have
23:24
something
23:24
similar
23:27
sort
23:27
of
23:27
natural
23:27
food
23:28
stores.
23:29
Much
23:29
of
23:30
what's
23:30
in
23:30
a
23:30
whole
23:30
foods
23:31
grocery
23:32
store
23:32
is
23:32
not
23:32
whole
23:32
foods.
23:33
Not
23:33
whole
23:33
foods,
23:35
but
23:36
they
23:36
all.
23:36
Because
23:36
it's
23:36
natural,
23:37
it's
23:37
organic,
23:38
it
23:38
doesn't
23:38
have
23:38
anything
23:38
added
23:39
to
23:39
it.
23:39
But
23:39
you
23:39
know,
23:40
there's
23:40
tons
23:40
of
23:41
products
23:41
in
23:42
a
23:42
whole
23:42
foods
23:42
grocery
23:43
store
23:43
that
23:44
contain
23:44
sugar,
23:45
flour
23:46
and
23:46
vegetable
23:46
oil
23:47
and
23:48
all
23:48
kinds
23:48
of,
23:48
you
23:48
know,
23:48
added
23:50
ingredients.
23:50
Whether
23:50
they're.
23:52
Even
23:52
if
23:52
they're
23:52
natural,
23:53
they're
23:53
still
23:53
additives.
23:54
And
23:54
so
23:55
they're
23:55
not
23:55
whole
23:56
foods.
23:56
And
23:57
this
23:57
is
23:58
where
23:58
children,
23:58
this.
23:59
I
23:59
hope
23:59
we
23:59
talk
23:59
about
24:00
children
24:00
because,
24:01
Jen,
24:01
you
24:01
were
24:01
talking
24:02
about
24:02
the
24:02
brain
24:02
getting
24:03
rewired.
24:04
The
24:05
brain,
24:05
the
24:06
addicted
24:06
brain
24:06
is
24:06
rewired.
24:07
We
24:07
would
24:07
never
24:08
expose,
24:08
intentionally
24:10
or,
24:11
or
24:11
in
24:11
good
24:12
conscience,
24:13
never
24:13
expose
24:13
a
24:13
child
24:14
to
24:15
nicotine
24:15
or
24:16
alcohol
24:16
or
24:16
caffeine
24:18
because
24:18
the
24:19
developing
24:19
brain
24:20
is
24:20
very
24:20
vulnerable
24:21
to
24:22
addiction.
24:23
But
24:23
yet
24:24
we
24:24
encourage
24:25
children
24:25
to
24:26
eat
24:26
sweet
24:27
and
24:27
sugary
24:27
foods
24:27
and
24:28
starchy
24:28
foods
24:29
all
24:30
day
24:30
long.
24:31
And
24:31
this
24:31
is.
24:32
Once
24:33
the
24:33
brain
24:33
becomes
24:34
addicted
24:35
to
24:35
a
24:35
substance,
24:36
it
24:36
becomes
24:36
very,
24:37
very
24:37
difficult
24:40
to
24:40
change
24:40
that
24:41
pattern
24:41
of
24:41
behavior.
24:42
Yeah.
24:42
Jen,
24:43
are
24:43
you
24:43
seeing
24:43
this
24:43
more
24:44
and
24:44
more
24:44
often
24:45
in
24:45
teens?
24:46
Yeah,
24:46
in
24:46
kids.
24:47
Yeah.
24:47
I
24:47
mean,
24:48
couldn't,
24:48
could
24:49
not
24:49
agree
24:50
more.
24:51
I
24:51
think
24:51
the
24:51
evidence
24:52
is
24:52
that
24:53
in
24:53
terms
24:53
of
24:54
the
24:54
prevalence
24:54
of
24:55
food
24:55
addiction,
24:55
yeah,
24:57
it's
24:57
as
24:57
high
24:58
now
24:58
in
24:59
kids
24:59
as
24:59
it
25:00
is
25:00
in
25:00
adults.
25:00
And
25:01
the
25:01
kids
25:01
that
25:01
are
25:01
coming
25:01
through
25:02
now,
25:02
of
25:02
course,
25:02
have
25:02
had
25:03
that
25:03
environment
25:04
all
25:04
their
25:05
lives.
25:05
Whereas,
25:05
you
25:06
know,
25:06
people
25:07
my
25:07
age,
25:07
we
25:07
still
25:08
were
25:08
brought
25:08
up
25:09
on
25:09
a
25:09
mainly
25:10
whole
25:10
food,
25:11
home
25:11
cooked
25:14
diet.
25:14
But
25:14
you
25:14
know
25:14
that
25:15
that's
25:15
not
25:15
the
25:15
case
25:15
with
25:16
kids.
25:16
With
25:16
kids
25:17
now.
25:17
And
25:17
yeah,
25:18
it's
25:18
a,
25:18
it's
25:18
a
25:18
little
25:18
bit
25:19
terrifying.
25:20
What's,
25:21
what's
25:21
coming
25:22
down
25:22
the
25:22
line,
25:22
I
25:22
think
25:23
for,
25:23
for
25:23
Children.
25:24
Yeah,
25:24
it's.
25:24
It's
25:25
incredibly
25:25
impactful.
25:26
And
25:27
you
25:27
know,
25:27
yeah,
25:28
sugar
25:28
is
25:28
the
25:28
only
25:29
substance
25:29
that
25:30
kids
25:30
have
25:31
access
25:31
to,
25:31
which
25:31
is
25:32
psychoactive
25:33
as,
25:33
as
25:34
Giorgio
25:34
was
25:34
saying,
25:35
you
25:35
know,
25:35
we
25:35
wouldn't
25:35
ever
25:36
dream
25:36
of
25:37
giving
25:37
them,
25:37
you
25:38
know,
25:38
even
25:38
caffeine
25:39
particularly.
25:39
We
25:39
wouldn't
25:40
give
25:40
small
25:40
kids
25:41
usually,
25:43
certainly
25:44
not
25:44
nicotine
25:44
or
25:45
alcohol.
25:46
But
25:46
yeah,
25:46
we
25:46
all
25:47
kind
25:47
of
25:47
go
25:48
the
25:48
other
25:49
way
25:49
with
25:49
the
25:49
sugar
25:49
because
25:50
the
25:50
kids
25:50
love
25:51
it
25:51
so
25:51
much
25:52
because
25:52
it's
25:52
so
25:53
rewarding.
25:54
It's
25:54
kind
25:54
of
25:55
seen
25:55
as
25:56
cute.
25:57
Unfortunately
25:59
for
26:00
those
26:00
of
26:00
us
26:00
who
26:00
sort
26:01
of
26:01
understand
26:01
this
26:01
issue,
26:01
it's
26:02
just
26:02
kind
26:02
of,
26:02
it's
26:03
just
26:03
painful
26:04
to
26:05
watch
26:05
those
26:06
people
26:06
laughing
26:06
at
26:06
those
26:07
videos
26:07
of.
26:08
You
26:08
only
26:08
have
26:08
to
26:09
Google
26:09
kids
26:09
babies
26:10
first
26:10
ice
26:11
cream.
26:12
And
26:13
you
26:13
see
26:13
these
26:13
babies
26:14
kind
26:14
of
26:16
cramming
26:17
ice
26:17
cream
26:18
in
26:19
their
26:19
mouths
26:19
and
26:20
everyone's
26:21
laughing.
26:21
But
26:21
yeah,
26:23
it's
26:23
not
26:23
going
26:23
to
26:23
be
26:24
funny
26:24
really
26:24
in
26:24
the
26:24
long
26:25
run.
26:25
Well,
26:25
I
26:25
think
26:25
a
26:26
big
26:26
part
26:26
of
26:26
the
26:26
problem
26:26
though
26:26
is
26:27
a
26:27
lot
26:27
of
26:27
people
26:27
may
26:28
be
26:28
making
26:28
the
26:28
decisions
26:29
or
26:29
a
26:29
lot
26:29
of
26:29
people
26:30
who
26:30
are
26:31
doctors
26:31
and
26:32
they
26:32
say,
26:32
well,
26:32
Beth,
26:33
I
26:33
can
26:34
eat
26:34
potato
26:34
chips
26:34
and
26:35
stop,
26:35
or
26:35
I
26:35
can
26:35
eat
26:36
cookies
26:36
and
26:36
stop,
26:37
and
26:37
I'm
26:37
not
26:38
addicted
26:38
to
26:38
it.
26:38
And
26:39
you
26:39
know,
26:40
just,
26:41
just
26:41
like
26:41
we
26:41
can
26:41
say
26:42
some
26:42
people
26:42
can
26:42
drink
26:42
alcohol
26:42
and
26:43
not
26:43
be
26:43
addicted
26:44
to
26:44
it.
26:44
Right.
26:44
But,
26:44
but
26:45
there
26:45
is
26:45
that
26:45
concept
26:46
that's
26:46
not
26:46
really
26:47
a
26:47
thing
26:47
because
26:47
it's
26:48
not
26:48
universal.
26:48
And,
26:49
and
26:49
how
26:49
do
26:50
you,
26:50
how
26:50
do
26:50
you
26:50
kind
26:51
of
26:51
argue
26:51
against
26:51
that?
26:52
Well,
26:52
I
26:52
just
26:53
say,
26:53
you
26:53
know,
26:53
like
26:53
alcohol.
26:54
Yeah.
26:54
So
26:55
I
26:55
think
26:55
it's
26:55
about
26:55
10%,
26:56
isn't
26:56
it,
26:56
of
26:56
the
26:57
adult,
26:57
adult
26:57
population
26:58
who
26:58
have
26:59
eight
27:00
substance
27:01
use
27:02
disorder
27:03
with
27:03
alcohol,
27:03
you
27:04
know,
27:04
have
27:04
that,
27:04
that
27:04
sort
27:05
of
27:05
level
27:05
of
27:05
a
27:05
problem.
27:07
And,
27:08
but
27:09
we
27:09
don't
27:09
deny
27:10
that
27:10
that
27:11
exists.
27:12
So
27:12
I
27:12
would
27:13
say
27:13
it's
27:13
exactly
27:13
the
27:14
same.
27:14
So
27:14
it's,
27:14
you
27:15
know,
27:15
it's
27:15
14%
27:16
of
27:16
the
27:16
general
27:17
population
27:17
who
27:18
have
27:18
this
27:18
problem
27:18
with,
27:19
let's
27:20
say,
27:20
ultra
27:21
processed
27:21
food
27:22
or,
27:22
you
27:22
know,
27:22
sugar,
27:22
refined
27:23
carbohydrates.
27:24
I
27:24
think
27:24
it
27:25
really
27:26
behoves
27:26
every
27:28
clinician
27:28
to
27:29
understand
27:29
this
27:30
condition,
27:31
to
27:32
sort
27:32
of
27:32
look
27:33
out
27:33
for
27:33
it,
27:33
to
27:34
be
27:34
able
27:34
to
27:34
have
27:36
a
27:36
sensitive
27:36
conversation
27:37
with
27:37
someone
27:37
about
27:38
it
27:38
and
27:38
then
27:38
know,
27:39
you
27:39
know,
27:40
either
27:40
what
27:40
sort
27:41
of
27:41
basic
27:41
advice
27:41
to
27:41
give
27:42
or
27:42
where
27:42
to
27:43
refer
27:43
people
27:44
on.
27:44
And
27:44
this
27:44
is
27:45
why
27:45
we're
27:45
campaigning
27:46
to
27:46
have
27:46
it
27:46
recognized
27:47
by
27:48
the
27:48
who.
27:49
And
27:49
Ashley
27:49
Gerhardt
27:50
in
27:50
the
27:50
States
27:50
is
27:51
campaigning
27:51
to
27:51
get
27:52
it
27:52
in
27:52
the
27:52
dsm
27:53
because
27:53
I
27:53
think
27:54
until
27:54
we
27:55
do
27:55
that,
27:55
there
27:56
will
27:56
be
27:56
this,
27:57
you
27:57
know.
27:58
Well,
27:58
you
27:58
know,
27:58
it
27:59
kind
27:59
of.
27:59
It
28:00
doesn't
28:00
exist.
28:00
Well,
28:01
you
28:01
know,
28:02
it
28:03
really
28:03
does
28:03
exist.
28:04
It's
28:05
everywhere
28:05
and
28:06
people
28:06
are
28:07
struggling
28:07
More
28:08
and
28:08
more.
28:08
And
28:08
they,
28:10
you
28:10
know,
28:10
we're
28:10
just
28:10
prescribing
28:11
more
28:11
and
28:11
more
28:12
drugs
28:13
for
28:13
a
28:13
condition
28:14
that,
28:14
you
28:15
know,
28:15
can
28:16
be.
28:16
We
28:16
know
28:16
because,
28:17
you
28:17
know,
28:17
of
28:17
the
28:18
search
28:18
that
28:18
we've
28:19
published
28:20
can
28:20
be
28:20
significantly
28:21
helped
28:22
by
28:23
a.
28:24
The
28:24
right
28:24
sort
28:25
of
28:25
nutritional
28:25
advice,
28:26
as
28:26
George
28:27
was
28:27
talking
28:27
about,
28:28
but
28:28
also
28:29
seeing
28:30
the
28:30
problems
28:31
through
28:31
this
28:32
addiction
28:32
lens
28:33
so
28:33
that
28:33
we
28:33
add
28:33
that
28:34
addiction
28:34
piece
28:35
into
28:35
the
28:35
treatment,
28:36
and
28:36
we
28:37
educate
28:37
people
28:37
about
28:38
what's
28:38
going
28:38
on
28:38
in
28:39
their
28:39
brain,
28:39
and
28:40
it's
28:41
not
28:41
their
28:41
fault,
28:41
even
28:42
though
28:42
it's
28:42
their
28:42
sort
28:42
of
28:42
responsibility
28:43
to,
28:45
once
28:45
they
28:45
know
28:45
that,
28:46
to
28:46
sort
28:46
of
28:47
get
28:47
the
28:48
support
28:48
and
28:50
make
28:50
the
28:50
right
28:51
choices.
28:51
Yeah,
28:51
I
28:52
think
28:52
it's
28:52
so
28:52
interesting.
28:53
The
28:53
flip
28:53
side
28:53
of
28:54
that
28:54
is
28:54
that
28:55
many
28:55
clinicians
28:56
themselves
28:56
are
28:57
also
28:57
dealing
28:58
with
28:58
this
28:58
problem.
28:59
And
29:01
it's
29:01
hard
29:01
to
29:01
recognize
29:02
it.
29:04
It's
29:04
hard
29:04
to
29:04
acknowledge
29:05
that
29:05
this
29:05
is
29:05
a
29:06
problem.
29:06
If
29:06
you.
29:07
You
29:07
really
29:07
want
29:08
to
29:08
continue
29:08
eating
29:08
these
29:08
things
29:09
yourself,
29:09
and
29:09
if
29:09
you
29:10
acknowledge
29:10
to
29:11
yourself
29:11
or
29:11
your
29:11
patient
29:11
that
29:12
these
29:13
foods
29:13
are
29:13
actually.
29:13
They're
29:13
not
29:13
good
29:14
for
29:14
anybody.
29:15
They're
29:15
really
29:15
not
29:16
foods
29:16
to
29:16
begin
29:16
with.
29:17
Nobody
29:17
should
29:18
really
29:18
be
29:18
eating
29:18
them,
29:18
including
29:19
the
29:19
clinicians
29:19
themselves.
29:21
That's
29:21
a
29:21
tall
29:22
order.
29:22
This
29:22
is
29:23
the
29:23
way
29:23
most
29:23
people
29:24
are
29:24
living
29:24
now.
29:24
Most
29:25
people
29:25
are
29:25
eating
29:25
these
29:26
foods
29:26
multiple
29:27
times
29:27
per
29:28
day,
29:28
enjoying
29:29
them,
29:29
and
29:29
they
29:30
don't
29:30
want
29:30
to
29:30
give
29:30
them
29:30
up.
29:31
And
29:31
so
29:31
I
29:32
think
29:32
there
29:32
is
29:34
the
29:34
vulnerability
29:35
differences,
29:35
genetic
29:36
differences,
29:37
and
29:37
then
29:38
there's
29:38
also
29:39
some
29:39
denial
29:40
going
29:40
on
29:40
and
29:40
some
29:41
attachment
29:42
going
29:42
on
29:42
to
29:43
some
29:43
of
29:43
these
29:43
products
29:44
that
29:44
everybody
29:45
loves.
29:45
Yeah,
29:45
that's
29:46
really,
29:46
really
29:46
good
29:47
point,
29:47
the
29:47
denial
29:47
part
29:48
of
29:48
it.
29:49
But
31:55
so
31:55
now
31:55
if
31:55
someone's
31:56
listening
31:56
to
31:56
this
31:56
and
31:57
they
31:57
really
31:58
connect
31:58
with
31:58
this,
31:58
like,
31:58
wow,
31:59
you
31:59
are
31:59
describing
32:00
my
32:00
experience,
32:01
but
32:01
I
32:02
just
32:02
can't
32:02
quit.
32:02
Every
32:03
time
32:03
I
32:03
try
32:03
to
32:03
quit.
32:03
Right.
32:04
Treatment
32:04
is
32:05
stop
32:05
eating
32:05
them.
32:05
Well,
32:06
it's
32:06
not
32:06
that
32:06
simple.
32:07
I
32:07
can't
32:07
just
32:07
stop
32:07
eating
32:08
it.
32:08
So
32:09
how
32:09
do
32:09
you
32:09
start
32:10
someone
32:10
on
32:10
their
32:11
healing
32:11
journey?
32:11
What
32:11
are
32:12
sort
32:12
of
32:12
the
32:12
keys
32:13
to
32:13
help
32:13
people
32:13
get
32:14
over
32:14
this?
32:15
Well,
32:15
that's
32:15
the
32:15
subject
32:16
of
32:16
Jen's
32:16
research.
32:17
She's
32:17
done
32:17
some
32:18
of
32:18
the
32:18
best
32:18
studies
32:18
in
32:18
the
32:18
world.
32:19
Yeah,
32:19
I
32:19
think
32:20
support
32:21
is
32:21
massively
32:21
important.
32:22
Important.
32:22
You
32:23
know,
32:23
I
32:23
think
32:23
if
32:23
people
32:24
can
32:25
get
32:25
into
32:25
a
32:25
group
32:26
program,
32:26
you
32:26
know,
32:27
we
32:27
know
32:27
that
32:27
from
32:27
other
32:28
addiction
32:29
problems.
32:29
You
32:29
know,
32:30
that
32:30
having
32:30
that
32:31
sort
32:31
of,
32:31
you
32:31
know,
32:32
here's
32:32
these
32:32
other
32:33
people
32:33
who
32:33
suffer
32:34
just
32:34
like
32:34
me,
32:34
and
32:35
it's
32:35
okay
32:35
for
32:35
me
32:35
to
32:36
say,
32:36
you
32:36
know,
32:37
I
32:37
got
32:37
something
32:37
out
32:37
of
32:38
the
32:38
bin
32:38
and
32:38
ate
32:38
it,
32:38
because
32:39
they've
32:40
done
32:40
that
32:40
too.
32:40
You
32:41
know,
32:41
they.
32:41
There's
32:42
no
32:42
need
32:42
to
32:42
feel
32:43
ashamed.
32:43
And
32:43
you
32:44
have
32:44
that
32:44
lovely
32:44
support
32:45
and
32:45
that
32:45
accountability.
32:46
So
32:46
I
32:47
think
32:47
that's
32:48
part
32:48
of
32:48
it.
32:50
I
32:50
think
32:50
the
32:50
other
32:50
part
32:51
is
32:52
this
32:53
education
32:53
about
32:54
the
32:54
brain
32:54
that
32:55
we've
32:55
sort
32:55
of
32:55
touched
32:56
on
32:56
the
32:56
effect
32:56
that
32:57
these
32:58
foods
32:58
have
32:58
on
33:00
the
33:00
reward
33:00
system
33:01
in
33:01
the
33:01
brain
33:01
and
33:02
how
33:02
that
33:02
sort
33:02
of
33:02
gets
33:03
super
33:03
lit
33:03
up
33:04
in
33:04
those
33:04
of
33:04
us
33:05
who
33:05
have
33:05
that
33:06
vulnerability.
33:07
As
33:07
Georgia
33:07
says,
33:08
that
33:08
can
33:08
be
33:09
genetic
33:10
thing.
33:10
I
33:10
mean,
33:11
there's
33:11
also.
33:12
We
33:13
haven't
33:13
really
33:13
talked
33:13
about
33:13
sort
33:14
of
33:14
trauma
33:14
aspect,
33:14
but
33:15
we
33:15
know
33:15
that,
33:15
you
33:15
know,
33:16
people
33:16
who
33:16
maybe
33:17
had
33:17
early
33:17
or
33:18
even
33:18
later
33:18
trauma
33:19
actually
33:19
are
33:20
more
33:20
vulnerable
33:20
to
33:22
these
33:23
sort
33:23
of
33:23
substance
33:24
use
33:25
problems.
33:26
So,
33:26
you
33:26
know,
33:26
a
33:26
lot
33:27
of
33:27
education
33:27
about,
33:28
about
33:28
the
33:28
brain
33:28
and
33:28
about
33:29
why
33:29
an
33:30
abstinent
33:30
food
33:31
plan
33:31
and
33:32
working
33:32
out
33:32
that
33:32
individual,
33:33
you
33:33
know,
33:33
individualizing
33:34
that
33:34
and
33:34
working
33:35
out
33:35
the
33:35
person's
33:36
individual
33:37
abstinent
33:37
food
33:37
plan
33:39
is
33:40
so
33:40
important
33:41
and
33:42
why
33:42
abstinence
33:43
is
33:43
the
33:43
key.
33:44
And
33:44
then
33:44
it's
33:45
about
33:45
trying
33:45
to
33:45
support
33:45
them
33:46
to
33:46
keep
33:46
going
33:47
in
33:47
that.
33:47
And
33:47
that's
33:47
why
33:48
groups
33:48
are
33:48
so
33:48
good,
33:48
because
33:49
people
33:49
are
33:50
so
33:50
brilliant
33:50
at
33:51
supporting
33:51
each
33:51
other
33:52
and
33:52
sort
33:52
of
33:52
keeping
33:53
each
33:53
other
33:54
going.
33:54
And
33:54
then
33:55
the
33:55
other
33:55
thing
33:55
is
33:58
this
33:59
idea
33:59
of
33:59
there's
34:00
no
34:00
such
34:00
thing
34:00
as
34:01
failure
34:01
because
34:01
I
34:02
think
34:02
people
34:02
have
34:02
failed
34:03
so
34:03
many
34:03
times
34:03
in
34:04
their
34:04
own
34:04
eyes,
34:04
they've
34:04
sort
34:05
of
34:05
failed
34:05
to
34:05
stick
34:05
to
34:05
the
34:06
plan.
34:06
So
34:07
we
34:07
talk
34:07
about
34:08
the
34:08
process
34:08
of
34:08
getting
34:09
into
34:09
recovery
34:10
as
34:10
that.
34:11
It's
34:11
a
34:11
process,
34:11
you
34:12
know,
34:12
yeah,
34:12
you
34:12
will
34:13
slip
34:13
up,
34:13
you
34:13
know,
34:13
you
34:14
will
34:14
make
34:14
mistakes.
34:15
But
34:15
you
34:15
know,
34:15
it's
34:16
how
34:16
you
34:16
respond
34:17
to
34:17
those
34:17
slip
34:17
ups
34:18
and
34:18
how
34:18
you,
34:19
you
34:20
know,
34:20
can
34:20
kind
34:20
of
34:20
learn
34:21
from,
34:21
well,
34:22
what
34:22
was
34:22
it
34:22
about
34:23
that
34:23
situation?
34:23
What
34:24
can
34:24
I
34:24
do
34:24
differently
34:25
next
34:25
time?
34:25
You
34:25
know,
34:26
maybe
34:26
it
34:27
was
34:27
a
34:27
holiday
34:27
or
34:28
particular
34:28
sort
34:28
of
34:28
family
34:29
situation.
34:29
Well,
34:30
you
34:30
know,
34:30
how
34:30
would
34:31
I
34:31
do
34:31
that
34:31
differently
34:32
next
34:32
time
34:32
so
34:32
that
34:32
I
34:32
don't
34:33
fall
34:33
into
34:33
that
34:33
trap
34:34
again
34:34
and
34:34
having
34:34
that
34:35
sort
34:35
of
34:35
learning
34:37
mentality
34:37
rather
34:38
than
34:38
sort
34:38
of
34:39
pass
34:39
fail.
34:40
Because
34:40
I
34:40
mean,
34:41
addicts
34:41
are
34:41
very
34:41
black
34:42
and
34:42
white
34:42
in
34:42
the,
34:42
in
34:43
their,
34:43
in
34:43
their
34:44
thinking
34:45
often
34:45
and
34:47
like
34:47
to
34:47
have
34:47
these
34:48
sort
34:48
of
34:48
categories
34:49
of,
34:49
you
34:50
know,
34:50
right
34:50
or
34:50
wrong,
34:51
pass
34:51
or
34:51
fail.
34:52
But
34:52
I,
34:52
you
34:52
know,
34:52
I
34:52
think
34:52
if
34:53
we
34:53
can
34:53
sort
34:53
of
34:53
think
34:53
of
34:54
it
34:54
as
34:54
a
34:54
learning
34:56
process,
34:56
that
34:56
recovery
34:57
is
34:57
a
34:57
process
34:57
that
34:58
we're
34:58
in
34:58
for
34:58
the
34:58
rest,
34:59
rest
34:59
of
34:59
our
34:59
lives
35:00
and
35:00
we're
35:00
kind
35:00
of
35:01
learning
35:01
what
35:01
works
35:02
for
35:02
us
35:03
as
35:03
individuals.
35:03
And
35:04
you
35:04
know,
35:04
George's
35:05
recovery
35:06
is
35:06
different
35:06
from
35:06
mine,
35:07
is
35:07
different
35:07
from
35:08
Heidi
35:09
that
35:09
I
35:09
work
35:09
with.
35:10
Yeah,
35:10
so
35:10
we
35:10
did
35:12
with
35:12
some
35:13
colleagues
35:13
in
35:13
North
35:14
America
35:14
and
35:14
in
35:14
Sweden,
35:15
we,
35:15
we
35:16
each
35:16
tried
35:16
a
35:17
sort
35:17
of,
35:17
it
35:17
was
35:18
a
35:18
real
35:18
food,
35:18
low
35:18
carbohydrate
35:20
plan
35:21
with
35:21
all
35:21
the
35:22
education
35:22
about
35:23
the
35:23
brain
35:24
with
35:24
group
35:25
support
35:25
and
35:26
with
35:26
sort
35:26
of
35:26
relapse,
35:27
you
35:27
know,
35:28
planning
35:28
and
35:29
all
35:29
of
35:29
this
35:30
that
35:31
I've
35:31
just
35:31
talked
35:32
about.
35:32
And
35:34
in
35:34
completers,
35:35
we
35:36
got
35:36
62%
35:37
of
35:38
the
35:38
group
35:38
of
35:39
the
35:39
patients
35:39
into
35:40
remission
35:41
from
35:42
a
35:42
food
35:42
addiction.
35:43
And
35:45
the
35:45
result
35:46
at
35:46
one
35:46
year.
35:47
So
35:47
it
35:47
wasn't
35:48
just
35:48
straight
35:48
after
35:49
the
35:49
program.
35:49
Everybody's
35:50
doing
35:50
fine
35:51
at
35:51
12
35:51
months.
35:53
Many,
35:54
many
35:54
of
35:54
the
35:54
patients
35:55
that
35:56
sort
35:56
of
35:56
come
35:56
out
35:56
of
35:56
the
35:57
severe
35:57
food
35:58
addiction
35:58
category
35:58
into
35:59
like,
35:59
no,
35:59
you
36:00
know,
36:00
they
36:00
look
36:00
like
36:00
they
36:00
had
36:01
no
36:02
food
36:02
addiction.
36:03
Um,
36:04
and
36:05
yeah,
36:05
so
36:05
we're,
36:05
you
36:06
know,
36:06
it's.
36:06
You.
36:06
You
36:07
can,
36:07
you
36:08
can
36:08
treat
36:08
addiction
36:09
and
36:09
you
36:09
can
36:09
treat
36:10
food
36:10
addiction.
36:11
Yeah.
36:11
So
36:11
the
36:11
combination
36:12
of
36:12
diet
36:12
and
36:13
support
36:13
over
36:14
60%
36:14
remission
36:15
at
36:15
one
36:15
year
36:16
is
36:16
remarkable.
36:17
I
36:17
mean,
36:17
really
36:18
remarkable.
36:18
So,
36:19
so,
36:19
I
36:19
mean,
36:19
Georgia,
36:20
in
36:20
your
36:20
experience,
36:22
what
36:22
is
36:23
the
36:23
most
36:23
effective
36:24
diet
36:24
for
36:24
addressing
36:25
food
36:26
addiction
36:26
and
36:26
why?
36:27
What
36:27
is
36:27
happening
36:28
with
36:28
the
36:28
change
36:28
in
36:28
the
36:29
diet?
36:29
Yeah,
36:29
so
36:30
as
36:30
Jen
36:30
was
36:30
saying,
36:31
everybody's
36:31
plan
36:32
is
36:32
going
36:32
to
36:32
be
36:32
personalized
36:33
to
36:33
their
36:33
own
36:34
vulnerabilities.
36:35
And,
36:35
you
36:35
know,
36:35
there
36:36
are
36:36
certain
36:36
substances.
36:37
I
36:37
think
36:37
I
36:37
do
36:37
agree
36:38
that
36:38
refined
36:39
carbohydrates
36:41
are
36:41
a
36:42
major
36:42
factor
36:43
for
36:43
just
36:43
about
36:43
everybody
36:44
with
36:44
addictive
36:45
eating
36:45
patterns.
36:46
And
36:46
so
36:47
removing
36:47
that
36:48
substance
36:50
and
36:50
the
36:50
most
36:50
effective,
36:51
efficient
36:52
way
36:52
to
36:52
do
36:52
that
36:53
is
36:53
with
36:54
a
36:54
low
36:54
carbohydrate
36:55
diet.
36:55
Um,
36:56
and
36:57
even
36:57
better,
36:57
in
36:58
my
36:58
experience,
36:58
is
36:58
a
36:59
ketogenic
37:00
diet
37:00
where
37:00
you're
37:00
actually
37:01
not
37:01
just
37:02
limiting
37:02
carbohydrate,
37:03
but
37:04
making
37:04
changes
37:05
to
37:06
your
37:06
dietary
37:07
plan
37:07
that
37:07
actually
37:07
get
37:08
you
37:08
into
37:08
ketosis
37:09
and
37:09
get
37:09
you
37:09
burning
37:09
more
37:10
fat
37:10
and
37:10
less
37:11
carbohydrate
37:11
for
37:11
energy.
37:12
Then
37:13
your
37:13
cells
37:14
are
37:14
getting.
37:15
They're
37:15
le.
37:15
They're
37:16
looking
37:16
for
37:16
less
37:16
carbohydrate,
37:17
and
37:17
they're.
37:17
They
37:18
can
37:18
draw
37:18
more
37:18
on
37:18
your
37:19
fat
37:19
stores,
37:20
whether
37:20
that's
37:20
from
37:20
your.
37:21
From
37:21
your
37:21
body
37:22
or
37:22
from
37:22
your
37:22
plate.
37:23
And
37:24
then
37:24
you're.
37:25
You're
37:25
really
37:25
kind
37:25
of
37:25
fundamentally
37:26
changing
37:27
your
37:28
metabolic
37:29
operating
37:29
system
37:30
over
37:30
to
37:31
more
37:31
fat
37:31
and
37:31
less
37:32
sugar.
37:32
And,
37:33
and
37:33
that's
37:33
going
37:33
to
37:34
be
37:34
good.
37:34
Your
37:34
cravings
37:34
are
37:35
going
37:35
to
37:35
go
37:35
down.
37:35
Your
37:36
hormonal
37:36
signaling
37:37
is
37:37
going
37:37
to
37:37
work
37:37
better
37:38
when
37:38
you're
37:38
eating
37:39
foods
37:40
that
37:40
are
37:40
keeping
37:40
your
37:40
blood
37:41
sugar
37:41
and
37:41
insulin
37:41
levels
37:42
too
37:42
high
37:42
and
37:42
kind
37:42
of
37:42
putting
37:42
you
37:43
on
37:43
this
37:43
roller
37:43
coaster
37:44
of,
37:44
you
37:45
know,
37:45
insulin
37:45
and
37:45
glucose.
37:46
And
37:47
it's
37:47
not
37:47
just
37:47
insulin
37:48
and
37:48
glucose
37:48
that
37:48
are
37:49
going
37:49
up
37:49
and
37:49
down.
37:49
It's.
37:50
There's
37:51
many
37:51
chemicals
37:51
in
37:52
the
37:52
brain
37:52
that
37:52
are
37:52
going
37:52
up
37:53
and
37:53
down.
37:53
There
37:53
are
37:53
stress
37:54
hormones
37:54
going
37:54
up
37:54
and
37:54
down,
37:55
blood
37:55
pressure
37:55
hormones
37:56
coming
37:56
and
37:56
down,
37:57
appetite
37:57
and
37:58
satiety
37:58
hormones
37:59
going
37:59
up
37:59
and
37:59
down.
38:00
Everything
38:01
is
38:01
being
38:01
destabilized
38:02
from
38:03
within
38:03
simply
38:04
by
38:04
having
38:05
the
38:05
wrong
38:05
information
38:06
about
38:06
what
38:06
a
38:06
healthy
38:07
breakfast
38:07
is
38:07
supposed
38:08
to
38:08
look
38:08
like.
38:08
So
38:08
if
38:09
you
38:09
have
38:09
a
38:09
bowl
38:09
of
38:09
cereal
38:10
for
38:10
breakfast,
38:10
Or
38:10
a
38:10
bagel
38:11
or
38:11
a
38:12
muffin
38:12
or
38:12
juice
38:13
or
38:13
a
38:13
smoothie,
38:14
it's
38:15
off.
38:15
Really.
38:16
You
38:16
can
38:16
throw
38:16
yourself,
38:17
your,
38:17
your,
38:18
your
38:18
internal
38:18
chemistry
38:19
off
38:19
for
38:19
the
38:19
rest
38:19
of
38:20
the
38:20
day.
38:20
It's
38:20
gonna
38:20
be
38:20
a
38:20
real
38:21
struggle.
38:22
And
38:22
so
38:23
for
38:23
most
38:23
people,
38:24
getting
38:24
the
38:24
refined
38:24
carbohydrates
38:25
out
38:25
is,
38:26
number
38:26
one,
38:27
getting
38:28
low
38:28
carb
38:28
might
38:28
be
38:29
step
38:29
two,
38:29
ketogenic
38:30
might
38:30
be
38:30
step
38:30
three.
38:31
There's
38:31
a
38:31
different
38:31
degrees
38:32
of
38:33
metabolic
38:34
intervention,
38:35
but
38:35
then
38:35
there
38:36
is
38:36
another
38:36
layer
38:37
if
38:37
that
38:38
doesn't
38:38
work
38:38
well
38:38
enough.
38:39
There
38:39
are
38:40
some
38:40
whole
38:41
foods
38:42
that
38:42
some
38:43
people
38:43
find
38:43
difficult
38:44
to
38:44
control,
38:45
and
38:45
that's
38:46
a
38:46
different
38:46
level
38:46
of
38:47
personalization.
38:47
So
38:48
for
38:48
some
38:48
people,
38:48
it's
38:49
nuts.
38:49
For
38:49
some
38:49
people,
38:49
it's
38:50
dairy,
38:50
you
38:50
know,
38:50
that
38:50
sort
38:51
of
38:51
thing.
38:51
And
38:52
so,
38:52
but,
38:52
but,
38:53
but
38:53
beginning
38:54
with
38:54
that
38:54
metabolic
38:55
foundation,
38:56
quieting
38:57
everything
38:57
down
38:58
by
38:58
getting
38:58
yourself
38:59
off
38:59
that
38:59
glucose
39:00
and
39:00
insulin
39:00
roller
39:01
coaster
39:01
is,
39:02
Is
39:02
really
39:03
useful
39:03
because
39:04
if
39:04
you
39:05
can
39:05
do
39:05
that,
39:06
you're
39:06
going
39:06
to
39:06
need
39:07
so
39:07
much
39:08
less
39:08
willpower
39:09
than
39:09
you
39:09
ever
39:09
thought
39:10
you.
39:10
I
39:10
mean,
39:10
most
39:11
people
39:11
say,
39:11
well,
39:11
I
39:11
can't
39:11
give
39:12
up
39:12
those
39:12
things
39:12
because
39:13
I
39:13
can't
39:13
imagine
39:14
getting
39:14
through
39:14
a
39:14
day
39:15
without
39:15
them.
39:16
And,
39:16
and
39:16
that's
39:17
true
39:17
of
39:17
people
39:17
who
39:18
are
39:18
attached
39:19
to
39:19
alcohol.
39:19
They
39:20
can't
39:20
imagine
39:20
going
39:20
for
39:21
a
39:21
day
39:21
without
39:21
drinking.
39:22
And
39:22
it's
39:22
not
39:23
easy
39:23
the
39:23
first
39:23
few
39:23
days.
39:24
But
39:24
once
39:24
you
39:24
get,
39:25
once
39:25
you,
39:25
Once
39:26
you've
39:26
made
39:26
that
39:26
shift
39:27
after
39:27
a
39:27
week
39:27
or
39:27
two,
39:28
it
39:28
becomes
39:29
so
39:29
much
39:29
easier
39:30
because
39:30
the
39:31
substance
39:31
isn't
39:32
driving
39:32
your
39:32
craving
39:33
for
39:33
more
39:33
of
39:33
that
39:34
substance.
39:34
So
39:35
kind
39:35
of
39:35
cleaning,
39:36
cleaning
39:36
that,
39:37
cleaning
39:37
that,
39:37
cleaning
39:38
your
39:38
plate
39:38
of
39:38
these
39:38
things,
39:39
getting
39:40
to
39:40
the
39:40
other
39:40
side,
39:40
and
39:41
then
39:41
personalizing
39:42
if
39:42
you
39:42
need
39:42
more
39:43
help
39:43
beyond
39:43
that.
39:43
So
39:44
it
39:44
really
39:45
is
39:45
understanding
39:45
which
39:46
types
39:46
of
39:47
foods
39:47
and
39:47
ingredients
39:48
you
39:49
personally
39:50
have
39:50
difficulty
39:51
controlling
39:51
your
39:52
intake
39:52
of.
39:52
Yeah,
39:53
I
39:53
really
39:53
like
39:53
how
39:53
you
39:53
talked
39:54
about,
39:54
though,
39:54
a
39:54
dietary
39:55
intervention
39:55
that
39:56
actually
39:56
changes
39:56
your
39:57
metabolism
39:57
and
39:58
changes
39:58
your
39:58
fuel
39:59
source
40:00
and
40:00
how
40:00
that
40:00
impacts
40:01
it.
40:01
So
40:01
I
40:01
think
40:01
that
40:02
that
40:02
is
40:02
key.
40:02
I
40:03
think
40:03
it's
40:03
a
40:03
really
40:03
good
40:03
point
40:04
about
40:05
people
40:05
understanding
40:06
that,
40:07
that
40:08
addiction
40:08
model
40:09
and
40:09
that
40:09
once
40:09
you're
40:09
through
40:10
the
40:10
withdrawals,
40:10
things
40:11
get
40:11
a
40:11
lot
40:11
easier.
40:12
I
40:12
think
40:12
you
40:12
need
40:12
to
40:13
give
40:13
people
40:13
that
40:13
expectation.
40:14
Otherwise
40:14
they
40:14
do
40:15
three
40:15
days
40:15
and
40:15
they
40:16
feel
40:17
so
40:17
bad
40:18
and,
40:18
you
40:18
know,
40:19
so
40:19
low
40:20
and
40:20
grumpy,
40:21
and
40:21
their
40:21
family
40:22
is
40:22
saying,
40:22
oh,
40:22
God,
40:22
just
40:23
such
40:23
a
40:23
grouch.
40:23
And,
40:23
you
40:24
know,
40:24
and
40:24
they're
40:24
not
40:24
sleeping.
40:25
And
40:26
you're
40:26
such
40:26
a
40:26
grouch.
40:26
Here,
40:27
just
40:27
have
40:27
some
40:27
carbs.
40:28
You
40:28
feel
40:28
better.
40:29
Just
40:29
have
40:30
some.
40:30
Yeah,
40:30
have
40:31
this,
40:31
have
40:31
this
40:31
chocolate
40:32
bar.
40:32
You
40:32
know,
40:32
I
40:33
mean,
40:33
there
40:33
are
40:33
families
40:33
that,
40:34
yeah,
40:35
they
40:35
do,
40:35
they
40:35
do
40:36
literally
40:36
give
40:36
people,
40:37
you
40:37
know,
40:38
carbohydrate
40:39
and
40:39
chocolate
40:39
to
40:39
eat.
40:40
But,
40:40
yeah,
40:40
if
40:41
People
40:41
can
40:41
understand
40:41
some
40:41
withdrawal
40:42
syndrome
40:42
and
40:42
they
40:43
need
40:43
to,
40:43
they
40:43
need
40:43
to
40:44
really
40:44
push
40:44
through,
40:45
you
40:45
know,
40:45
probably
40:45
till
40:46
day
40:46
eight,
40:46
day
40:46
nine,
40:46
but
40:47
before
40:47
that
40:47
physiological
40:49
withdrawal
40:49
is
40:50
over
40:51
and
40:51
then
40:53
they
40:53
start
40:53
to
40:54
get
40:54
the
40:54
benefits.
40:54
And
40:54
I
40:54
think
40:55
once
40:55
you've
40:55
got
40:55
someone
40:56
to
40:56
that
40:56
point,
40:57
even
40:57
once,
40:58
and
40:58
they
40:58
start
40:58
to,
40:59
you
40:59
know,
40:59
the
40:59
lights
41:00
come
41:00
on.
41:00
It's
41:00
like
41:02
Ian
41:02
Campbell
41:03
talks
41:03
about
41:03
when
41:03
he
41:04
went
41:04
keto
41:04
and
41:04
he
41:05
was
41:05
on
41:05
the
41:05
bus
41:05
and
41:05
it
41:05
was
41:06
like
41:06
someone
41:06
had
41:06
plugged
41:06
his
41:07
brain
41:07
back
41:07
in.
41:07
You
41:07
do
41:08
literally
41:08
get
41:08
that
41:09
moment
41:09
where,
41:10
you
41:10
know,
41:10
you
41:10
suddenly
41:11
start
41:11
to
41:11
feel
41:12
the
41:12
sort
41:12
of
41:12
chance,
41:13
cheerful
41:13
and
41:13
energetic,
41:14
and
41:15
the
41:16
cravings
41:16
are
41:16
leaving
41:17
you.
41:17
And
41:17
I
41:17
think
41:17
if
41:18
we
41:18
can
41:18
just
41:18
get
41:18
people
41:18
to
41:19
that
41:19
point,
41:21
you
41:21
know,
41:21
even
41:21
once,
41:22
they
41:22
then
41:23
have
41:23
that
41:23
motivation
41:24
to
41:24
try
41:24
and
41:24
stay,
41:26
stay
41:26
there.
41:26
You
41:26
know,
41:27
if
41:27
they
41:27
do
41:27
have
41:27
a
41:27
wobble,
41:28
they
41:28
know
41:28
how
41:28
great
41:29
they
41:29
felt
41:30
when
41:31
they
41:31
were
41:32
abstinent
41:32
in
41:33
inverted
41:33
commas.
41:33
So,
41:34
you
41:34
know,
41:34
they've
41:34
got
41:34
that,
41:35
that
41:35
motivation
41:35
to
41:36
get,
41:36
to
41:36
get
41:36
back
41:37
to
41:37
it.
41:37
Most
41:37
people
41:38
have
41:38
been
41:38
eating
41:38
this
41:38
way,
41:39
eating
41:39
these
41:40
substances
41:41
every
41:41
day
41:41
of
41:41
their
41:42
lives
41:42
since
41:42
they
41:42
were
41:43
small
41:43
children.
41:43
So
41:44
they
41:44
just
41:44
can't
41:44
imagine
41:45
their
41:45
lives
41:46
without
41:46
these
41:47
substances.
41:47
And
41:48
it
41:48
is
41:48
hard,
41:48
very,
41:49
very
41:49
hard
41:50
if
41:50
you
41:50
are
41:50
addicted
41:51
to
41:51
these
41:51
things,
41:52
to
41:52
even
41:52
go
41:52
a
41:52
day
41:53
without
41:53
them.
41:53
And
41:54
so
41:54
most
41:55
people
41:55
have
41:55
never
41:55
tried
41:56
to
41:56
go
41:57
more
41:57
than
41:57
a
41:57
few
41:57
days
41:57
without
41:58
them
41:58
and
41:58
really
41:59
have
41:59
the
42:00
information
42:00
and
42:00
the
42:01
tools
42:01
and
42:01
the
42:01
rules
42:02
that
42:02
they
42:02
need
42:02
to
42:03
follow
42:03
to
42:03
get
42:04
to
42:04
this
42:05
much
42:05
happier,
42:05
healthier
42:06
place.
42:07
And
42:07
they
42:07
don't
42:07
realize
42:07
how
42:08
much
42:08
easier
42:09
it
42:09
can
42:09
be
42:10
if
42:10
they,
42:10
once
42:11
they
42:11
get
42:11
to
42:11
the
42:11
other
42:11
side,
42:12
if
42:12
they've
42:13
never
42:13
experienced
42:14
that,
42:14
it's
42:14
hard
42:14
for
42:14
them
42:15
even
42:15
to
42:15
believe
42:15
that
42:16
it's
42:16
possible.
42:17
And
42:18
it
42:18
doesn't
42:18
really,
42:18
it
42:19
doesn't
42:19
need
42:19
to
42:19
be
42:19
that
42:20
hard.
42:20
It
42:20
just.
42:20
You've
42:20
got
42:21
to
42:21
get
42:21
through.
42:21
As
42:21
Jen
42:22
was
42:22
saying,
42:22
you
42:22
need
42:22
the
42:23
support
42:23
and
42:23
the
42:24
information
42:24
and
42:24
the
42:25
time
42:25
to,
42:26
to
42:26
make
42:26
that
42:27
shift.
42:28
And
42:28
once
42:28
you're
42:28
on
42:28
the
42:29
other
42:29
side,
42:29
then
42:29
you
42:30
can
42:30
see,
42:30
well,
42:30
you
42:30
know,
42:31
this.
42:31
Wow.
42:32
I,
42:32
I've
42:33
just
42:33
walked
42:33
past
42:33
a
42:34
pastry
42:34
shop
42:34
and
42:35
not
42:35
thought
42:35
about
42:35
pastry.
42:36
That's,
42:36
that's
42:36
interesting.
42:37
Who
42:37
am
42:37
I?
42:37
You
42:38
know,
42:38
and
42:38
people
42:39
always
42:39
don't
42:39
recognize
42:40
themselves
42:41
when
42:41
they
42:41
are
42:42
in
42:42
this
42:42
different
42:42
metabol.
42:43
It's
42:43
a
42:43
different
42:44
state
42:44
of
42:44
mind.
42:45
And
42:46
it,
42:46
it's
42:46
like
42:46
wearing
42:46
a
42:47
suit
42:47
of
42:47
armor.
42:47
You
42:48
know,
42:48
it,
42:48
it's
42:49
not
42:49
perfect.
42:50
You
42:50
know,
42:50
the,
42:50
the
42:51
storage
42:51
can
42:51
still
42:51
get
42:52
you.
42:52
If
42:52
you,
42:52
you
42:52
know,
42:53
in
42:53
certain
42:53
places,
42:54
you're
42:55
not
42:55
going
42:55
to
42:55
be
42:55
completely.
42:55
This
42:56
is
42:56
where
42:56
the
42:56
support
42:57
and
42:57
the
42:57
ongoing
42:57
education
42:58
and
42:58
the
42:58
relapse
42:59
prevention
42:59
all
42:59
comes
43:00
into
43:00
play.
43:00
You're
43:01
going
43:01
to
43:01
need,
43:01
just
43:01
like
43:02
any
43:02
Addiction,
43:03
ongoing
43:03
support.
43:04
It's
43:04
a
43:04
lifelong
43:05
vulnerability.
43:07
You're
43:07
not
43:07
going
43:07
to
43:07
just
43:07
poof,
43:08
it's
43:08
going
43:08
to
43:08
disappear,
43:09
but
43:10
you're
43:10
going
43:10
to
43:10
have
43:10
a
43:10
real
43:11
fighting
43:11
chance.
43:12
Yeah.
43:12
We
43:12
should
43:13
say,
43:13
of
43:13
course,
43:13
for
43:13
anybody
43:14
listening
43:14
is
43:15
thinking
43:15
of
43:16
doing
43:16
this
43:17
and
43:17
going
43:18
cold
43:18
turkey,
43:19
please.
43:20
If
43:20
you're
43:20
on
43:20
medication,
43:21
make
43:21
sure
43:21
you
43:22
talk
43:22
to
43:22
your
43:22
health
43:23
care
43:23
providers
43:24
before
43:24
you
43:25
do
43:25
that.
43:25
You
43:25
shouldn't
43:26
quit.
43:26
Or,
43:27
you
43:27
know,
43:27
refined
43:28
carbohydrates
43:28
and
43:29
sugars.
43:30
If
43:30
you're
43:30
on
43:30
medication
43:31
for
43:31
diabetes,
43:32
blood
43:32
pressure
43:33
meds,
43:33
probably
43:34
some
43:34
mental
43:34
health
43:34
meds,
43:35
I
43:35
don't
43:35
know,
43:35
Georgia
43:36
can
43:36
advise
43:36
on
43:36
that.
43:38
You
43:38
know,
43:39
you're
43:40
probably
43:40
going
43:40
to
43:40
need
43:40
to
43:40
have
43:41
those
43:41
cut
43:41
down
43:41
quite,
43:42
quite
43:42
rapidly.
43:43
You
43:43
know,
43:43
people
43:43
see
43:44
incredible
43:44
improvements
43:45
in
43:45
blood
43:46
pressure
43:46
and
43:47
blood
43:47
sugars.
43:48
And
43:48
if
43:49
you're
43:49
still
43:49
on
43:50
the
43:50
medication,
43:50
you
43:50
know,
43:51
those
43:51
things
43:51
can
43:51
go
43:51
a
43:51
little
43:52
bit
43:52
too
43:52
low.
43:52
So
43:54
it's
43:54
a
43:54
great
43:54
thing
43:54
to
43:55
do,
43:55
but
43:55
make
43:55
sure
43:55
you're
43:55
doing
43:56
it
43:56
with
43:56
support.
43:57
That's
43:57
such
43:57
an
43:57
important
43:57
point.
43:58
And
43:58
I'm
43:58
glad
43:58
you
43:59
brought
43:59
up
43:59
medications
43:59
because
44:00
there's
44:00
medications
44:01
you
44:01
have
44:01
to
44:01
be
44:01
cautious
44:02
with
44:02
if
44:02
you're
44:02
on.
44:03
But
44:03
also
44:03
this
44:04
concept
44:04
that,
44:04
well,
44:04
can't
44:05
a
44:05
medication
44:05
just
44:06
help
44:06
with
44:06
this
44:06
food
44:07
addiction?
44:07
And
44:07
now
44:07
there's
44:08
this
44:08
new
44:08
kid
44:08
on
44:08
the
44:09
block
44:09
with
44:09
the
44:09
GLP1s
44:10
and
44:10
you
44:10
know,
44:11
some
44:11
people
44:11
are
44:11
probably
44:11
saying,
44:12
why
44:12
would
44:12
I
44:12
have
44:12
to
44:12
change
44:13
my
44:13
diet
44:13
and
44:13
do
44:13
all
44:14
these,
44:14
you
44:14
know,
44:14
crazy
44:15
restrictive
44:15
diets
44:16
as
44:16
people
44:16
sometimes
44:17
think
44:17
of
44:17
a
44:17
keto
44:18
diet
44:18
when
44:19
all
44:19
I
44:19
have
44:19
to
44:19
do
44:19
is
44:19
take
44:19
a
44:19
GLP1.
44:20
So.
44:20
So
44:21
Georgia,
44:21
what
44:21
are
44:21
your
44:21
thoughts
44:22
about
44:22
the
44:23
rise
44:23
of
44:23
GLP1
44:24
agonist
44:25
medications
44:25
like
44:25
Ozempic,
44:26
Wegovy,
44:26
Manjaro,
44:27
et
44:27
cetera,
44:27
as
44:28
treatments
44:28
for
44:29
food
44:30
addiction
44:30
and
44:30
carb,
44:31
processed
44:31
carb
44:32
addiction?
44:32
Yeah,
44:32
you
44:33
know,
44:33
they're,
44:33
they
44:33
can
44:33
be
44:33
very
44:34
useful
44:34
tools
44:35
and
44:35
I
44:35
think
44:35
it's
44:35
wonderful
44:36
for
44:36
people
44:36
to
44:36
have
44:36
options,
44:37
but
44:37
not
44:38
a,
44:38
not
44:38
everybody
44:39
has
44:39
the
44:40
luxury
44:40
of
44:40
being,
44:41
of
44:41
being
44:41
able
44:42
to
44:42
access
44:42
GLP1s.
44:43
Not
44:43
everybody
44:43
can
44:43
afford
44:44
them.
44:44
They're
44:44
not
44:44
available
44:45
everywhere.
44:46
And,
44:47
and
44:47
the
44:47
other
44:47
thing
44:47
is
44:48
that,
44:48
is
44:49
this,
44:49
is
44:49
this
44:49
really
44:50
the
44:50
solution,
44:50
the
44:50
long
44:51
term
44:51
solution
44:51
to
44:51
the
44:52
problem
44:52
of
44:52
we're,
44:52
we're
44:53
eating
44:53
all
44:53
the
44:53
wrong
44:53
foods
44:54
and
44:54
making
44:54
ourselves
44:54
very
44:55
ill,
44:55
mentally
44:55
and
44:56
physically
44:56
ill.
44:57
We're
44:57
just
44:57
gonna
44:58
medicate
44:58
our
44:58
way
44:58
out
44:59
of
44:59
that
44:59
problem.
45:00
So
45:00
we're
45:00
gonna
45:00
give
45:01
kids
45:01
ice
45:02
cream
45:02
cones
45:02
and
45:03
sugary
45:03
cereals
45:04
and
45:04
popsicles
45:05
and,
45:06
and
45:06
potato
45:07
chips
45:07
and
45:07
Doritos
45:08
with
45:08
one
45:08
hand
45:09
and
45:09
give
45:09
them
45:09
a
45:10
GLP1
45:10
injection
45:11
with
45:11
the
45:11
other
45:11
hand.
45:11
That's
45:12
gonna
45:12
be
45:12
our
45:13
solution.
45:14
I
45:14
don't
45:14
think
45:14
that's
45:14
a
45:15
good
45:15
long
45:15
term
45:16
solution.
45:16
It's
45:16
not
45:16
a
45:17
root
45:17
cause
45:17
solution.
45:18
The
45:18
problem
45:19
is
45:19
the
45:19
food.
45:20
And
45:20
so
45:21
for
45:21
some
45:21
people,
45:22
the
45:22
GLP1s
45:23
are
45:23
going
45:23
to
45:23
be
45:23
really
45:24
valuable,
45:25
already
45:25
have
45:25
been
45:25
shown
45:26
to
45:26
be
45:26
very
45:27
valuable
45:27
tools
45:28
to
45:28
help
45:29
people
45:29
get
45:30
started
45:30
on
45:30
their
45:31
journey
45:31
if
45:32
trying
45:32
to
45:32
change
45:33
their
45:33
lifestyle
45:34
is
45:34
too
45:35
daunting
45:35
a
45:35
task.
45:37
And
45:38
so
45:38
I'm
45:38
all
45:38
for,
45:39
I'm
45:39
all
45:40
for
45:40
personalizing
45:41
the
45:41
protocol,
45:42
especially
45:42
in
45:42
the
45:42
beginning,
45:43
to
45:43
give
45:43
people
45:44
all
45:44
the
45:44
support
45:44
they
45:44
need
45:45
to
45:45
get
45:45
healthier.
45:46
But
45:46
it's
45:46
been
45:46
already
45:47
being
45:47
shown
45:47
in
45:47
a
45:47
lovely
45:48
study
45:48
by
45:48
Virta,
45:48
and
45:49
there'll
45:49
be
45:49
more
45:49
information
45:50
coming
45:50
out
45:50
about
45:51
this
45:51
approach.
45:52
More
45:52
clinicians
45:52
are
45:52
using
45:53
GLP1s
45:54
in
45:54
this
45:54
way,
45:54
using
45:55
GLP1s
45:55
as
45:56
a
45:56
bridge,
45:56
using
45:57
GLP1s
45:57
as
45:58
A
45:58
bridge
45:58
to
45:59
giving
45:59
people
46:00
the
46:00
confidence
46:00
and
46:01
the
46:02
benefits,
46:03
the
46:04
progress
46:04
that
46:05
they
46:05
need
46:05
to
46:05
see
46:05
to
46:05
start
46:06
to
46:06
feel
46:06
confident
46:06
and
46:07
move
46:07
forward
46:07
and
46:08
to
46:08
changing
46:08
their
46:09
lifestyle,
46:09
getting
46:09
their
46:10
appetite
46:10
under
46:10
control,
46:11
giving
46:12
them
46:12
a
46:12
head
46:13
start,
46:14
you
46:15
know,
46:15
taking
46:15
some
46:15
of
46:16
the
46:16
pressure
46:16
off
46:16
of
46:16
their
46:17
insulin
46:17
signaling
46:18
system.
46:18
Because
46:18
GLP1s,
46:20
what
46:20
they're
46:20
primarily
46:21
doing
46:21
is
46:22
they're,
46:22
they're
46:23
bringing
46:23
your
46:23
glucose
46:24
and
46:24
insulin
46:24
levels
46:25
and
46:25
your
46:25
appetite
46:26
hormones
46:26
into
46:27
better
46:27
balance
46:28
and
46:28
just
46:29
like
46:29
a
46:29
ketogenic
46:30
diet
46:30
can
46:30
do,
46:31
but
46:31
of
46:32
course,
46:32
much
46:32
easier.
46:33
And
46:33
so
46:35
the
46:35
study
46:35
in
46:35
Virta
46:36
Health
46:36
showed
46:36
that
46:36
if,
46:37
if
46:37
you
46:37
switched
46:38
people
46:38
over
46:38
from
46:39
a
46:39
GLP1
46:40
to
46:40
a
46:41
low
46:41
carbohydrate
46:41
diet,
46:42
that
46:42
they
46:42
could
46:43
maintain
46:43
the
46:43
weight
46:44
loss
46:44
and
46:44
the
46:45
appetite
46:46
control
46:46
that
46:47
they
46:47
had
46:47
gained
46:47
from
46:48
the
46:48
GLP1
46:49
and.
46:49
But
46:49
they
46:49
were
46:49
able
46:49
to
46:50
then
46:50
stop
46:50
the
46:50
GLP1.
46:51
So
46:51
it
46:51
didn't
46:51
need
46:51
to
46:52
be
46:52
a
46:52
lifetime
46:53
of
46:54
medication.
46:55
Yeah.
46:56
It's
46:56
so
46:56
interesting
46:57
to
46:57
see
46:57
sort
46:57
of
46:57
these
46:58
parallel
46:58
paths
46:58
that
46:59
we're
46:59
seeing
46:59
research
46:59
for
47:00
GLP1s
47:01
for
47:01
weight
47:02
loss.
47:02
We're
47:02
seeing
47:03
research
47:03
for
47:05
food
47:05
cravings,
47:06
and
47:06
then
47:06
we're
47:07
seeing
47:07
research
47:07
for
47:07
also
47:08
addiction,
47:08
Alcohol,
47:09
another
47:09
substance
47:09
addition.
47:10
And
47:11
with
47:11
ketogenic
47:12
diets,
47:12
ketogenic
47:13
therapy,
47:13
we're
47:14
seeing
47:14
research
47:14
for
47:15
weight
47:16
loss,
47:16
for
47:16
food
47:17
cravings,
47:17
and
47:18
for
47:18
other
47:18
addictions
47:19
as
47:19
well.
47:19
I
47:19
mean,
47:20
it
47:20
really
47:20
is
47:20
not
47:20
that
47:21
they're
47:21
exactly
47:21
the
47:21
same.
47:21
Obviously
47:22
they're
47:22
very
47:22
different,
47:22
but
47:24
there
47:24
are
47:24
very
47:24
sort
47:25
of
47:25
parallel
47:25
paths.
47:26
So,
47:26
I
47:26
mean,
47:27
Jen,
47:27
in
47:27
your
47:27
practice,
47:27
are
47:28
you
47:28
seeing
47:28
people
47:28
come
47:29
to
47:29
you
47:29
and
47:29
say,
47:29
well,
47:30
can't
47:30
I
47:30
just
47:30
take
47:30
this
47:30
medication
47:31
and
47:31
take
47:31
care
47:31
of
47:32
everything?
47:32
Is
47:32
there
47:32
like
47:32
a
47:33
right,
47:33
rising
47:33
trend
47:34
of
47:34
that?
47:34
Yeah,
47:35
I
47:35
mean,
47:35
we've
47:35
certainly,
47:36
certainly
47:36
in
47:36
the,
47:37
the
47:37
patients
47:37
that
47:38
we've
47:38
treated,
47:38
say
47:39
in
47:39
the,
47:39
in
47:39
the
47:39
treatment
47:40
program.
47:40
It's
47:41
interesting
47:41
because
47:41
the
47:41
GLP1s,
47:42
when
47:42
we
47:43
were
47:43
gathering
47:43
that
47:44
data,
47:44
they
47:44
weren't
47:44
really
47:45
available
47:46
or
47:46
in
47:46
the
47:47
ascendant
47:47
in
47:47
the
47:47
uk.
47:48
But
47:48
I
47:48
have
47:48
heard
47:49
from
47:49
a
47:50
few
47:50
people
47:50
that
47:50
you
47:50
know,
47:51
since
47:51
they've
47:52
become
47:52
available,
47:52
they
47:52
have,
47:53
they
47:53
have
47:53
been
47:54
trying
47:54
them.
47:54
I
47:55
mean
47:55
I
47:55
think
47:55
in
47:56
a
47:56
way
47:57
in
47:58
strangely
48:00
the
48:00
fact
48:00
that
48:00
the
48:00
GLP1s
48:01
are
48:02
you
48:03
know,
48:04
working
48:04
in,
48:05
they
48:05
seem
48:05
to
48:05
be
48:05
working
48:06
in
48:06
the
48:06
reward
48:07
centers
48:07
and
48:07
there
48:08
is
48:08
this
48:08
idea
48:08
that
48:09
they're
48:09
sort
48:09
of
48:09
work
48:09
working
48:10
in
48:10
the
48:10
addictive
48:11
parts
48:11
of
48:11
the
48:12
brain
48:12
and
48:12
they
48:13
work
48:13
so
48:13
well
48:14
for
48:15
people's
48:16
relationship
48:16
with
48:17
food.
48:17
I
48:17
think
48:18
it
48:18
in
48:19
a
48:19
way
48:20
proves
48:20
the
48:20
point
48:21
that
48:21
you
48:22
know,
48:22
that
48:22
people's,
48:23
some
48:23
people's
48:24
relationships
48:25
with
48:25
food
48:25
is
48:26
addictive.
48:27
You
48:27
know,
48:27
it's,
48:27
it's
48:28
a
48:28
way
48:28
of
48:28
sort
48:28
of
48:28
saying
48:28
well
48:29
aha,
48:29
you
48:29
know,
48:30
yeah,
48:30
food
48:30
addiction
48:30
is
48:31
real
48:31
because
48:31
you
48:32
know
48:32
these
48:32
medications
48:33
that
48:33
are
48:33
helping,
48:34
that's,
48:34
that's
48:34
how
48:34
they
48:35
work.
48:35
That's
48:35
how
48:35
they're
48:35
acting.
48:36
They're
48:37
acting
48:37
in
48:37
the
48:37
reward
48:38
center
48:38
to
48:38
some
48:38
extent.
48:39
So
48:39
I
48:39
think
48:40
it,
48:41
they
48:41
actually,
48:43
you
48:43
know,
48:43
adding
48:44
more
48:44
weight
48:44
to
48:45
the
48:45
argument
48:46
that
48:47
some
48:47
of
48:47
these
48:48
modern
48:48
foods
48:49
are
48:49
addictive.
48:50
And
48:50
I
48:50
think
48:51
one
48:51
of
48:51
the
48:51
downsides
48:52
of,
48:52
of
48:53
medic
48:53
trying
48:54
to
48:54
medicate
48:54
our
48:54
way
48:55
out
48:55
of
48:55
this
48:55
problem
48:55
is
48:55
that
48:56
you
48:56
can
48:57
take
48:57
a
48:57
GLP1
48:58
and
48:59
assuming
48:59
you
48:59
can
48:59
access
49:00
it
49:00
and
49:00
tolerate
49:00
it,
49:01
you
49:01
can
49:01
take
49:01
a
49:01
GLP1
49:02
and
49:02
your
49:02
appetite
49:03
for
49:03
all
49:03
kinds
49:03
of
49:04
foods
49:05
goes
49:05
down,
49:06
not
49:06
just
49:06
for
49:07
ultra
49:08
processed
49:08
foods.
49:09
And
49:09
so
49:09
then
49:10
you
49:10
know,
49:10
people
49:10
can,
49:12
whatever
49:12
they
49:12
are
49:13
eating,
49:13
they
49:13
may
49:14
not
49:14
think
49:14
it
49:14
matters,
49:15
right?
49:15
So
49:15
they
49:15
can
49:15
just
49:15
eat.
49:16
You
49:16
know,
49:16
they
49:17
can
49:17
still
49:17
have
49:17
the
49:18
same
49:18
poor
49:18
eating
49:19
habits
49:19
and
49:19
make
49:19
the
49:19
same
49:20
poor
49:20
choices
49:21
because
49:21
they
49:21
can
49:22
trust
49:22
themselves
49:23
to
49:23
a
49:23
certain
49:23
extent
49:23
not
49:24
to
49:24
overeat
49:24
those
49:24
foods.
49:25
So
49:25
now
49:25
they're,
49:26
it's
49:26
kind
49:26
of
49:26
a
49:26
license
49:26
to
49:27
eat
49:27
whatever
49:27
you
49:27
want
49:27
in
49:28
smaller
49:28
amounts.
49:28
And
49:28
it's
49:29
not
49:29
necessarily
49:30
going
49:30
to
49:30
help
49:30
you
49:30
build
49:31
healthier
49:31
habits
49:32
that
49:32
are
49:32
going
49:32
to
49:32
support
49:33
your
49:33
mental
49:33
and
49:33
physical
49:34
health.
49:34
You
49:34
are
49:34
going
49:34
to
49:34
lose
49:35
weight,
49:35
but
49:36
what
49:36
about
49:36
your
49:37
muscle
49:37
mass?
49:37
What
49:37
about
49:38
your
49:38
brain
49:38
health?
49:38
What
49:38
about
49:39
your,
49:40
you
49:40
know,
49:41
generally
49:41
speaking
49:42
the
49:42
health
49:42
of
49:43
all
49:43
of
49:43
your
49:43
cells.
49:43
Are
49:43
you
49:43
getting
49:44
enough
49:44
nutrients?
49:45
Are
49:45
you,
49:45
are
49:45
you
49:45
eating
49:46
things
49:46
that
49:46
are
49:46
damaging
49:47
your
49:47
cells?
49:47
So
49:48
it's,
49:49
I
49:50
had
49:50
a
49:50
patient
49:50
actually
49:51
who
49:52
severe
49:53
food
49:53
addiction
49:54
relapsing
49:55
over
49:55
and
49:55
over
49:55
again
49:55
even
49:56
on
49:56
a
49:56
low
49:56
carbohydrate
49:57
diet
49:59
had
49:59
lost
49:59
over
49:59
100
50:00
pounds
50:00
using
50:00
a
50:00
low
50:01
carb
50:01
diet,
50:01
still
50:01
had
50:02
some
50:02
more
50:02
to
50:02
go.
50:03
Lots
50:04
of
50:04
medical
50:04
issues,
50:05
type
50:05
2
50:05
diabetes,
50:06
cardiovascular
50:07
disease,
50:08
all
50:08
kinds
50:09
of
50:09
all
50:09
kinds
50:09
of
50:10
medical
50:11
issues.
50:12
And
50:13
again
50:13
made
50:13
tremendous
50:14
progress
50:14
but,
50:14
but
50:14
couldn't
50:15
get,
50:15
couldn't.
50:16
Had
50:16
hit
50:16
a
50:17
plateau,
50:17
was
50:17
really
50:18
struggling
50:18
with
50:19
overeating
50:19
of
50:20
other
50:20
Foods,
50:20
not
50:20
carbohydrates,
50:21
but
50:21
protein
50:22
especially.
50:23
And
50:23
so
50:23
finally
50:24
just
50:24
really
50:24
tired
50:25
of
50:25
battling
50:25
this.
50:25
And
50:26
so
50:27
we
50:27
had
50:27
tried
50:28
every
50:28
kind
50:28
of
50:28
intervention
50:29
that
50:29
I
50:29
could
50:30
think
50:30
of
50:30
together.
50:31
And
50:31
we
50:31
were
50:31
working
50:32
together
50:32
for
50:32
many
50:32
years.
50:33
I
50:33
said,
50:34
well,
50:34
you
50:34
know,
50:34
maybe
50:34
you
50:34
want
50:34
to
50:35
consider
50:35
talking
50:35
with
50:35
your
50:36
primary
50:36
care
50:36
about
50:36
a
50:37
GLP1.
50:37
And
50:37
so
50:38
he
50:39
did
50:39
that.
50:39
But
50:39
the
50:40
fascinating
50:40
thing
50:40
about
50:40
what
50:41
happened
50:41
for
50:41
him
50:41
was
50:41
that
50:42
he
50:43
started
50:43
the
50:43
GLP
50:44
one,
50:44
made
50:45
him,
50:46
you
50:46
know,
50:46
he
50:46
had
50:46
some
50:46
gastrointestinal
50:47
issues
50:47
and
50:48
you
50:48
know,
50:48
after
50:48
each
50:49
injection,
50:49
but
50:49
he
50:50
got
50:50
through
50:50
those
50:51
and
50:51
his
50:51
appetite
50:52
did
50:52
go
50:52
way
50:52
down.
50:53
The
50:53
fascinating
50:54
thing
50:54
was
50:54
it
50:54
did
50:55
backfire
50:55
because
50:56
now
50:56
he
50:57
thought,
50:57
oh
50:58
wow,
50:58
you
50:58
know,
50:58
I,
50:59
maybe
51:00
I
51:00
can
51:00
get
51:00
away
51:00
with
51:01
eating
51:02
these
51:02
foods
51:03
that
51:03
for
51:03
so
51:04
many
51:04
years
51:04
I've
51:05
had
51:05
to
51:05
avoid
51:06
to
51:06
be
51:06
well.
51:07
And,
51:08
and,
51:08
and
51:08
he
51:09
started
51:09
slipping
51:09
back
51:09
into
51:10
his
51:10
old
51:10
habits.
51:11
Blood
51:11
sugar
51:12
started
51:12
to
51:12
go
51:12
up,
51:13
you
51:13
know,
51:14
and,
51:14
and
51:14
the,
51:15
these
51:15
addictive
51:15
patterns
51:16
start
51:16
to
51:16
kick
51:16
in
51:16
again.
51:17
And
51:17
he
51:17
thought
51:17
to
51:17
himself,
51:18
now
51:18
wait
51:18
a
51:18
minute,
51:19
I
51:19
worked
51:19
really
51:20
hard
51:20
with
51:20
my
51:20
lifestyle
51:21
to
51:21
get
51:21
off,
51:22
to
51:22
get
51:22
off
51:22
injected
51:23
insulin.
51:24
And
51:24
I
51:24
was
51:24
really,
51:25
really
51:25
proud
51:25
of
51:25
myself
51:25
for
51:26
doing
51:26
that.
51:26
And
51:26
now
51:26
what
51:27
am
51:27
I
51:27
doing?
51:27
I'm
51:27
back
51:28
on
51:28
an
51:28
injected
51:28
medication
51:29
and
51:29
I'm
51:30
eating
51:30
it
51:30
in
51:30
a
51:30
healthy,
51:30
unhealthy
51:31
way
51:31
again.
51:32
So,
51:33
so,
51:34
so
51:35
human
51:35
beings
51:36
are
51:36
complicated
51:37
and
51:38
some,
51:38
sometimes
51:39
these
51:39
things
51:39
can
51:39
have
51:40
unintended
51:40
consequences.
51:41
Yeah.
51:41
So
51:41
important.
51:42
I
51:42
hope
51:42
people
51:42
go
51:42
back
51:42
and
51:43
listen
51:43
to
51:43
that
51:44
whole
51:44
thing
51:44
again
51:44
because
51:45
it's
51:45
not
51:46
just
51:46
how
51:46
much
51:46
you
51:46
eat,
51:47
it's,
51:47
it's
51:47
what
51:47
you
51:48
eat
51:48
and
51:48
how
51:48
you
51:49
fuel
51:49
your
51:49
brain,
51:49
how
51:50
you
51:50
fuel
51:50
your
51:50
body,
51:51
how
51:51
you
51:51
feel
51:51
your
51:52
cells
51:52
still
51:53
absolutely
51:53
matter.
51:54
So,
51:54
so
51:54
important.
51:55
Well,
51:55
this
51:55
has
51:55
been
51:56
a
51:56
really
51:57
good
51:57
discussion,
51:58
very
51:58
deep
51:59
discussion
51:59
about
52:00
food
52:00
addiction,
52:01
ultra
52:01
processed
52:02
carb
52:02
addiction
52:03
and
52:03
where
52:03
we
52:04
stand
52:04
and
52:04
how
52:04
to
52:05
treat
52:05
it
52:05
and
52:05
what
52:06
it
52:06
is
52:06
and
52:06
so
52:07
important
52:07
for
52:07
people
52:07
to
52:07
understand.
52:09
But
52:09
before
52:09
we
52:09
wrap
52:10
up,
52:10
I
52:10
mean,
52:10
one
52:10
of
52:10
the
52:10
questions
52:11
I
52:11
think
52:11
a
52:11
lot
52:11
of
52:11
people
52:12
have
52:12
is
52:12
where
52:12
can
52:13
I
52:13
go
52:13
to
52:13
learn
52:13
more?
52:14
Right.
52:14
I
52:14
want
52:15
to
52:15
know
52:15
what
52:15
exists
52:16
out
52:16
there.
52:16
So
52:17
I
52:17
know
52:17
there
52:17
are
52:17
a
52:17
number
52:18
of
52:18
resources.
52:18
Jen,
52:19
you
52:19
have
52:19
a
52:19
wealth
52:20
of
52:20
information
52:20
out
52:20
there.
52:21
So
52:21
where
52:21
do
52:21
you
52:21
recommend
52:22
people
52:22
go
52:22
to
52:22
learn
52:22
more
52:23
about
52:23
food,
52:23
food
52:23
addiction
52:24
or
52:24
about
52:24
you
52:24
and
52:24
your
52:25
work?
52:25
Okay,
52:26
well,
52:28
number
52:28
one,
52:28
we're
52:28
very
52:29
excited
52:29
about.
52:30
We've
52:30
got
52:30
a
52:30
conference
52:31
coming
52:31
up
52:31
in
52:31
London
52:32
on
52:32
the
52:32
4th
52:33
to
52:33
the
52:33
5th
52:33
of
52:33
September.
52:34
It's
52:35
on
52:35
Ultra
52:35
processed
52:36
food
52:36
addiction
52:36
and
52:37
it's
52:37
comorbidities.
52:38
So
52:39
lots
52:39
of
52:40
expert
52:40
speakers
52:40
on
52:41
ultra
52:41
processed
52:41
food
52:41
addiction,
52:42
but
52:42
also
52:42
on
52:42
these
52:43
conditions
52:43
that
52:43
go
52:44
along
52:44
with
52:44
it,
52:44
like
52:44
ultra
52:45
process
52:45
food
52:45
addiction
52:46
and
52:46
type
52:46
2
52:47
diabetes,
52:47
how
52:47
to
52:48
deal
52:48
with
52:48
that
52:48
cardiovascular
52:49
disease.
52:50
George
52:50
is
52:50
going
52:51
to
52:51
be
52:51
talking
52:51
on
52:51
the
52:52
mental
52:52
health
52:52
side.
52:53
We've
52:54
got
52:54
speakers
52:55
on
52:55
cancer
52:56
and
52:56
so
52:56
on.
52:57
So
52:57
we're
52:58
really
52:58
excited
52:58
about
52:58
that.
52:59
And
52:59
you
52:59
can
52:59
livestream
53:01
that
53:01
conference.
53:01
For
53:02
those
53:02
of
53:02
you
53:02
over
53:02
in
53:03
the
53:03
States
53:03
that
53:03
don't
53:03
want
53:04
to
53:04
make
53:04
the
53:04
trip
53:04
to
53:04
London,
53:05
of
53:05
course
53:05
we'd
53:06
love
53:06
to
53:06
see
53:06
you.
53:06
But
53:07
if
53:07
you
53:07
can't
53:08
make
53:08
it
53:08
then
53:08
you
53:08
can
53:09
live
53:09
stream
53:09
that
53:09
conference.
53:10
And
53:12
the
53:13
website
53:13
for
53:13
the
53:14
charity
53:14
that
53:14
I
53:15
work
53:15
with
53:16
that
53:16
are
53:16
hosting
53:17
that
53:17
conference
53:18
is
53:18
www.the-chc.org.
53:23
that's-chc.org
53:29
and
53:29
if
53:29
you
53:29
go
53:30
to
53:30
the
53:30
conference
53:30
page
53:31
there
53:31
you
53:31
can,
53:32
you
53:32
can
53:32
click
53:33
through
53:33
to
53:33
buy
53:34
tickets
53:35
from
53:36
Eventbrite.
53:38
I
53:38
mean
53:39
that's
53:39
really
53:40
going
53:40
to
53:40
be
53:40
the
53:40
main
53:41
thing
53:41
if
53:41
people
53:41
want
53:42
to.
53:43
I've
53:43
written
53:43
a
53:43
little
53:43
book
53:44
called
53:44
Fork
53:44
in
53:44
the
53:45
Road
53:45
which
53:46
is
53:46
on
53:46
Amazon
53:47
and
53:47
all
53:47
the
53:47
profits
53:48
go
53:48
to
53:48
the
53:48
charity,
53:51
the
53:51
CHC
53:51
that
53:52
I
53:52
was
53:52
just
53:52
talking
53:52
about
53:53
there.
53:53
Yeah.
53:54
The
53:54
subtitle
53:54
of
53:55
Jen's
53:55
book
53:55
A
53:55
Fork
53:55
in
53:56
the
53:56
Road,
53:56
which
53:56
is
53:56
a
53:56
lovely
53:57
book,
53:58
wonderful
53:58
little
53:58
book,
53:59
is
54:00
a
54:00
hopeful
54:00
guide
54:01
to
54:01
food
54:01
freedom.
54:02
And
54:02
I
54:03
really
54:03
love
54:03
that
54:03
subtitle
54:04
because
54:04
it
54:04
just
54:05
summarizes
54:07
there's
54:07
so
54:07
many
54:08
tips
54:08
and
54:08
tricks
54:08
in
54:09
that
54:09
book
54:09
and
54:09
so
54:09
many
54:09
personal
54:10
stories
54:10
of
54:10
people
54:11
who've
54:12
found
54:12
a
54:12
path
54:12
to
54:13
recovery.
54:14
And
54:14
it's
54:14
really
54:14
inspiring
54:15
and
54:15
it's,
54:16
and
54:16
it's
54:16
beautifully
54:16
illustrated.
54:17
It's
54:17
really
54:17
sweet
54:18
and
54:18
so
54:19
sweet
54:19
in
54:19
the
54:19
best
54:20
possible
54:20
way.
54:20
And
54:21
then
54:21
and
54:23
the
54:23
food
54:23
addiction
54:24
conference
54:24
that
54:24
the
54:24
Internet,
54:25
this
54:25
is
54:25
the.
54:25
So
54:26
what
54:26
people
54:26
may
54:26
not
54:27
know
54:27
is
54:27
that
54:27
Dr.
54:27
Jenna
54:28
was
54:28
quite
54:29
the
54:29
pioneer
54:29
in
54:30
this
54:30
space.
54:30
And
54:30
so
54:31
she
54:31
last
54:31
year
54:32
was
54:32
the
54:32
first,
54:32
the
54:33
very
54:33
first
54:34
international
54:34
food
54:34
addiction
54:35
conference
54:36
that
54:36
she
54:36
held
54:36
in
54:37
London.
54:37
It
54:37
was
54:38
wonderful.
54:38
It
54:38
was
54:38
really
54:39
like
54:39
one
54:40
of
54:40
the
54:40
best
54:40
conferences
54:40
I've
54:41
ever
54:41
attended.
54:42
And
54:42
this
54:42
year
54:43
the
54:44
presentation
54:44
that
54:44
I'm
54:45
going
54:45
to
54:45
give
54:45
is
54:45
going
54:45
to
54:45
be
54:45
called
54:46
when
54:46
food
54:46
makes
54:46
you
54:47
hungry.
54:48
And
54:49
I'm
54:49
going
54:49
to
54:49
have
54:49
a
54:50
special
54:50
guest
54:50
co
54:51
presenter,
54:52
Dr.
54:53
Albert
54:53
Dana
54:54
from
54:54
Toulouse,
54:55
France.
54:55
And
54:57
he's
54:57
the
54:57
psychiatrist
54:58
in
54:58
France
54:59
who
55:00
conducted
55:00
that
55:00
wonderful
55:01
French
55:01
study
55:01
that
55:02
I
55:02
helped
55:02
him
55:02
publish
55:03
with
55:03
people
55:04
with
55:04
severe,
55:05
chronic,
55:06
so
55:06
called
55:06
treatment
55:07
resistant
55:08
mental
55:09
illnesses
55:10
recovering
55:11
in
55:11
many
55:11
cases
55:12
with
55:12
a
55:13
simple
55:14
ketogenic,
55:15
mildly
55:15
ketogenic
55:16
diet.
55:17
And
55:17
he's
55:17
never
55:18
spoken
55:18
at
55:19
a
55:19
conference
55:19
before.
55:20
So
55:21
he's
55:21
going
55:21
to
55:21
be
55:21
speaking
55:22
with
55:22
me.
55:22
He's
55:22
going
55:22
to
55:22
share
55:23
some
55:23
wonderful
55:23
cases
55:24
from
55:24
his
55:24
practice
55:25
of
55:26
using
55:27
ketogenic
55:27
diets
55:28
to
55:28
treat
55:28
not
55:29
just
55:29
food
55:29
addiction
55:30
in
55:30
children
55:30
and
55:30
adults,
55:31
but,
55:31
but
55:31
all
55:31
of
55:31
the
55:32
other
55:32
psychiatric
55:33
comorbidities
55:33
that
55:34
come
55:34
along
55:34
with
55:34
that.
55:34
Well,
55:35
thank
55:35
you
55:35
both
55:36
so
55:36
much
55:36
I
55:36
mean,
55:37
the
55:37
work
55:37
you're
55:37
doing
55:38
is
55:38
so
55:38
important
55:38
in
55:39
helping
55:39
people
55:39
realize
55:41
if
55:41
they
55:41
struggle
55:41
with
55:42
food
55:42
addiction,
55:42
they're
55:43
not
55:43
alone,
55:43
they're
55:44
not
55:44
broken.
55:44
This
55:45
is
55:45
a
55:45
real
55:45
thing
55:45
and
55:46
there
55:46
is
55:46
a
55:46
hopeful
55:47
path
55:47
to
55:48
recovery.
55:48
So
55:49
thank
55:49
you
55:49
both
55:49
so
55:50
much.
55:50
I
55:50
really
55:50
look
55:50
forward
55:50
to
55:51
that
55:51
conference.
55:51
Thank
55:52
you.
55:53
Fellow
55:53
mental
55:54
health
55:54
clinicians
55:54
and
55:55
healthcare
55:55
providers,
55:56
you
55:56
now
55:56
have
55:56
access
55:57
to
55:57
to
55:57
a
55:57
suite
55:57
of
55:58
free
55:58
CME
55:59
lectures
55:59
on
56:00
Metabolic
56:00
Psychiatry
56:01
and
56:01
Metabolic
56:02
Health.
56:02
Each
56:02
of
56:02
these
56:03
CME
56:03
sessions
56:04
provide
56:04
insight
56:04
on
56:05
incorporating
56:05
metabolic
56:06
therapies
56:06
for
56:06
mental
56:07
illnesses
56:07
into
56:08
your
56:08
practice.
56:08
These
56:09
CME
56:09
sessions
56:10
are
56:10
approved
56:10
for
56:10
AMA
56:11
Category
56:11
1
56:11
credits,
56:12
CNE
56:13
nursing
56:13
credit
56:14
hours
56:14
and
56:14
continuing
56:15
education
56:15
credit
56:16
for
56:16
psychologists.
56:17
And
56:17
they're
56:18
completely
56:18
free
56:18
of
56:18
charge
56:19
on.
56:19
Mycme.Com
56:22
thanks
56:22
for
56:22
listening
56:23
to
56:23
the
56:23
Metabolic
56:23
Mind
56:24
Podcast.
56:24
If
56:25
you
56:25
found
56:25
this
56:25
episode
56:25
helpful,
56:26
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56:26
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56:26
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56:27
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56:27
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56:27
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56:27
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56:28
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56:28
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56:28
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56:28
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56:28
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56:28
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56:29
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56:29
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56:29
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56:30
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56:30
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56:30
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56:31
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56:31
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56:31
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56:31
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56:33
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56:33
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56:33
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56:34
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56:34
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56:34
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56:35
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56:35
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56:35
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56:36
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56:36
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56:36
Metabolic
56:37
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56:37
Lastly,
56:38
if
56:38
you
56:38
know
56:38
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56:39
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56:39
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56:39
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56:39
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56:40
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56:40
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56:41
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56:41
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56:41
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56:42
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56:42
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56:42
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56:43
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56:43
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56:43
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56:44
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56:44
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56:44
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56:44
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56:44
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56:45
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56:45
Thanks
56:46
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56:46
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56:46
listening
56:47
and
56:47
we'll
56:47
see.
56:47
You
56:47
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56:47
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56:48
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56:48
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56:48
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56:48
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56:49
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56:49
Podcast.