Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 620: Tribal Rights and Feral Horses on Wind River

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Ep. 620: Tribal Rights and Feral Horses on Wind River · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: If this is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast, you
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first Light.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: for el First Light has performance apparel to support every
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: dot com. F I R S T l I t
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: E dot com. Joined today by our first ever I
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: think this is our first ever definitely our first ever
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: guest who is from a Native American tribal reservation, however
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: you want to put it, a reservation fishing game agency.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: We've met all kinds of fishing game people from the
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: States right, but we've never had a tribal fishing game official.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: And people are going to learn a lot about how
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: this works, and we'll probably and a lot of people,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: particularly in the eastern United States, will be surprised about
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the level of sovereignty on large tracts of western lands
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: for reservations. Arthur, if you call you Arthur Art that
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: do you call you Art? And and and you brought
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: along your wife or nay okay and Arthur, you're Northern
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: irapa Ho, but you married a suit and this is
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: not frowned upon. This was arranged.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Somewhat. We're more of like a blind date, but then
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: ended up after. You know, our parents must have known something,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: so we we call ourselves an arranged marriage.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Is it was it common for Northern irapa Ho before
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: you two met? Was it common that Northern Arapaho would
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Maria Gualasu? Was that like a common union?
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Actually, we have a long history of the Northern Cheyenne,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the arapa Ho and the Lakota people summering together and
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: meeting in like the you know when nomadic lifestyle, meeting
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: and stuff and summering together. So we already had a
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: strong familial relationship with those tribes and stuff, and they
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: were like the allies with each other.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: So got it. If you go into our restroom down here,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: you might miss it because you won't be at the urinal.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Were you to visit the urinal, you would see a
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: painting called here fell Custer, and it's all Custer's guys
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: and their kind of moment of death, you know, at
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the little big on battlefield, and then down the hill
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: you can see the large encampment. We're Northern Irapaho ye present.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: The Northern, the Cheyenne and and and the is it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to hear someone who actually knows pronounces
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: is it unk Papa sue unhunk Papa Sue. And you're
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: a Galala sue. Crazy horse was a Galawa sue?
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Crazy horse was Ogalala?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, say it again? O Galala oglalla got it? And uh?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And you were brought up on the Pine Ridge Reservation.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: No, actually, I'm sorry, I uh I was born there,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: but I my mom and stepdad. My mom met my
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: stepdad on the Wind River Reservation and she worked for
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Indian Health Service, and then we moved from there and
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: we moved to different places. We lived on the Navajo
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Reservation where my stepdad taught school for a couple of years,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: and then moved down to the Phoenix area and that's
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: where I ended up going to through high school. And
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: then we moved back to the Wind River Reservation after
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I graduated high school so that my stepdad could help
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: with my grandpa's ranch and helped, you know, help with
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the cows and stuff. And so my parents own a
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: ranch on out in Canee or Wyoming, and then we
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: met each other and he went to school out in
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: Canear and just been there ever since.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And what did you study in school?
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: Art Well, I first started in hvac, you know, just
• 4:51
  Speaker 6: working a trade and stuff like that. I come from
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: an area where it's either ranching, farming, oil field. That's
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: all we knew in central Wyoming. So I laughed, went
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: to Denver, Colorado for a while, and then moved back
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: home to the reservation.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And your reservation. And we're gonna get into the Uh,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: don't sweat if you're at home wandering about the whole
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: fish and game thing. We're gonna get to that. But
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: but Wind River Reservation one was a couple of things here.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: If you keep going, this is always kind of surprised me.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: If you're on the Big Horn River and you go
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: up the Bighorn River, it goes through a canyon and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's the Wind River.
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: The wedding of the waters, the.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Wedding of the waters, and that's where and that right
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: there is in the country where you guys have your reservation.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: And when your reservation was formed, they put the they
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: put Shoshone, the Sashone tribe in with the Northern Irapa Hole.
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: So they put the Northern Applehole. Northern Apple were further
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: south in Colorado home in those different areas. During the winter,
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: uh they were pushing Northern Raple back east to Oklahoma,
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: and on the way up there was a sant Creek
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: massacre where the cavalry killed a bunch of tribal members,
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: and they pushed them up north, and then for the
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: winter they landed on the Winter of Indian Reservation, where
• 6:14
  Speaker 6: the Eastern Shoshone tribe was established. And then the spring
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: they were supposed to move the rap holes back down
• 6:22
  Speaker 6: to Oklahoma, but that never happened. The government pretty much
• 6:25
  Speaker 6: said you're staying here and you're going to live with
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: the Shoshonees and you're going to be fifty percent owners
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: of this reservation.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Well how did the Shoshones take that?
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: At first? Probably not too happy.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Because also and it's like, okay, you have this, Well
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: now you don't, so now you both have this.
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: A couple of years prior to that, the Eastern Shoshone
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: Reservation was only thirty million acres long. Now four years
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: later it was down to two two and a half acres,
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: and then a couple of years after that, then they
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: moved in the Northern rapp Wole tribe to live with
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: them and then be part ownership of the reservation.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And how many acres is it now?
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: Two point two million?
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: And it was how many at a time thirty thirty.
• 7:06
  Speaker 8: Million, So that's roughly the size of Yellowstone National Park
• 7:10
  Speaker 8: right close.
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, had the had prior to prior to the Sand
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Creek Masak or what had been the relationship with the
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Shoshone Northern Rapahole.
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: Traditionally there were enemies, Yeah, because.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: The Shashawone were more like in the eighteen hundreds, the
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Shoshone were sort of more welcoming of white intrusion. Right
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: in the Northern Rapaho had a history being more resistant
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: to white intrusion like in the eighteen hundreds. Is that correct?
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct. I mean they also went through
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: their own massacres too, and then they were top population
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: dropped radically with the massacres, and then they were placed
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: onto the well then that's then they started working with
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: the non natives and the cavalry and everything else, becoming
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: scouts and stuff because they were getting benefits of doing that.
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: And then until uh, you know, everything else happened the
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: Santric massacre and rapples showed up and then they just
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: became owners of one one landscape.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how I'm gonak one last question that we're gonna
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: take a break from it and talk about pre chewed food.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: You guys have kids, We do you ever went every
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: little babies? Did you ever chew up food and then
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: hand it to him to eat with elk meat?
• 8:27
  Speaker 9: Yeah, we're gonna get into that in a minute, Okay,
• 8:37
  Speaker 9: so you'll know exactly what we're talking about.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: The second here we got, we got We're gonna touch
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: on a couple of things. But how uh this is?
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: This is I'm trying to think of how to put
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: this question. How much? How let me pref I'm getting there.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of how to ask a semi
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: sensitive question, but it's not terribly sensitive. And I'll start
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: with this. I hunted in I hunted turkeys down in
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Mississippi this past spring, okay.
• 9:08
  Speaker 8: And.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Was surprised that, like, in wandering around in Mississippi, every
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: day someone would mention the war and they were talking
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: about the Civil War before the war, right or like
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: after the war. Do you know what I mean? And
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, I cannot believe the way this is.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Like when I hear the war. When I say the war,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking whiskey, whiskey too, because like my dad was
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in it. But when they're talking about the war, I'm like,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: oh my god, they're talking about like before the Civil
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: War who owned that? Or after the Civil War? Who
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: built that reservoir? You know whatever. You know what I'm saying,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: how much like in your culture, how much are the
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: atrocities like Sand Creek massacre wounded? K me, like, are
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: they how much are they mentioned in discussed and remembered?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Is it like is it a part of daily life.
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: It's not part of a daily life, but it's something
• 10:07
  Speaker 6: that the tribes bring up and I never will forget.
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: You know, when we work with the government and we
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: go over different projects and everything else that we do,
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: you know, we're bringing stuff up like that to show
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: our sovereignty and you know, we're our own nation and
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: we can do things differently than what the US government
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: has planned for us, and so you know, well it
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: comes up, but we don't dwell on it, you know.
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: You know, we talk about reservations, but traditionally travel member
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: tribes are not reservation Indians, you know, we we migrated
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: with a wildlife.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely memorialized and remembered, and in a sense
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: that it's not something that we will never forget and
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: we will never allow anybody else to forget that that's
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: that those atrocities happened, because that by by diminishing what
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: our ancestors had gone through to put us here makes
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: a minimizing it makes it easy for further atrocities to happen,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: and it's not something that we want to ever to
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: allow to happen to us again. So that's kind of
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: the thing where you know, we're we're not going to
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: let anybody forget that the Sankirk massa care occurred, or
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: that there were only women and elders and children when
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: wounded happened that were in the camp and they were slaughtered.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: We're not going to allow those types of things to
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: ever be forgotten because we don't ever want those things
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: to have to be able to reoccur for our people
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: because our ancestors did so much for survived for so
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: long for us to be here today.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think, you know, it'd be silly
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: for someone to expect otherwise, especially when you look at
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like like how thoroughly our culture memorializes catastrophes, wars, sacrifice, right,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like totally baked into our culture. But
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: then it looks when when you see a like a
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: culture within our culture or neighboring culture do it. There's
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: a tendency for people to be like they're living in
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the past. It's like, dude, you've been to Arlington Cemetery,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: even to Gettysburg, Like, this is not living in the past.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: You know when you were holding re enactments of those
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: battles and stuff.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, are you ready to talk about pre chewed food?
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: Sure?
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: Hang on, No.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: The other day I mentioned I kind of mentioned it
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: like it was a little bit like people might think
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: we're nuts, but we used to chew like the first
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: it was very like when our kids got through about
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: nine months old, everyone and we'd started giving them chewed
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: up deer meat and and we were laughing about that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: But we got a bunch of people at you know,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: not a bunch yeah, handful of people wrote in about
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: pre chewed food. Pat Dirkin wrote in that his mom
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and paternal grandmother they've been feeding their infants that way,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: going back that far, and he remembers Granny being disgusted
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: with Dirkin and his siblings thinking it was gross when
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: she would precheot her food and she called him spoiled.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: He claims there was a pat claims that there was
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a that's a Saturday Night Live skit which he was
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: not able to locate with the head. He remembers that
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: it had Gilda Radner in it and they were eating
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: at a restaurant called pre Chewed Charlie's. On the skit
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and the way they would chew meet and then put
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: it on your plate. He was unable to locate.
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: He was unable to locate the skit. Doctor Max Kurr, Yeah,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you know that everybody thinks that everyone knows ball Jars,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: glass Jars. Oh yes, yeah, they're kind of like the
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: band Aida Glass Jars. Well, a lot of people prefer
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: curR Jars, Karen, how do you say it?
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: K e r R.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My late uh friend and mentor, Ron Layton was
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: a kurr jar Man, not Ball. I hope I don't
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: get a mean letter from bald Jars from Bald Yeah,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: curR jars. Uh, he's written in before we actually just
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: met him at Meat Eater Experiences in Venice, Louisiana. He
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: came out He's excited about his day of offshore fishing
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: that I missed, which is depressing.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: We all miss that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I believe there's tunic for me somewhere.
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: There is.
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: I've got it for you, ye in the freezer, like
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: right outside.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: This is so off topic for us, but I'm gonna
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: get injured anyways, because it was. It was brought on
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: by the idea of chewing up deer meat and giving
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: it to your baby.
• 15:19
  Speaker 7: I don't think it's off topic.
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: All kinds of animals chew up their food and let
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: it sit in their stomach and.
• 15:24
  Speaker 7: Then regurgitating that baby. How bad is chewing up your food?
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: And I always called that baby birding?
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cut. We had a conversation about cud chewing at dinnery.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: Are you should hit that on a kid's segment? M
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: hm kids podcast?
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah might when I keep meaning to bring those pigeons
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: down here, But is.
• 15:45
  Speaker 8: That pigeon still shipping it on your foe?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I need to send I need to send you. There's
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: a video I should find it. Yeah, so my kids
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: got these baby pigeons I'm a nest and the they
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: have they roost, Like when you go up to our
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: front door, it's like, what do you call it? When
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: he got a little covered.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: I think is what you said.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a covered entry and probably jed in
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: the covered entry. And my wife needs to apologize to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: every person that comes to our door because they are
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: standing in a mountain of pigeon. Ship. She calls us
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the ship rellis ship Ella's terrible. But when my kids
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: are raising those birds up, like like pigeons, wigurgitate, they
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: they eat their food and they produce this kind of
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: milk substance. And so when they were raising them up,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: we were taking sunflower seeds and mixing with almond milk
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and putting it through a dropper. This guy is saying,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: this guy is a doctor and he's talking about he's
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a d d yes.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Dentist.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was saying that, Uh, babies, in order to
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: build your jaw and all that you need to they
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: need what he calls resistance training, which is the same
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: as weightlifting. Babies should be chewing on all kinds of stuff.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: It's very important. Ye. Breastfeeding is better than a rubber
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: nipple because the sucking effect and the swallowing muscles develop.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: You know, what's a real problem that I didn't know
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: about is kids sucking all their food out of those
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: little legs.
• 17:40
  Speaker 8: Yep, squeezers we call them.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's prolonged. The advent of that highly processed squeezer
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: is prolonging how long children take before they start to masticate.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So you can picture in the future a bunch of
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: weak jawed I was reading.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: I read that article.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: From a few days ago. It's incredible.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: They can stunt their speech development because they don't develop
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: the right coordination.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: There's just like, I'm you got to talk to doctor Max.
• 18:21
  Speaker 8: Like mating those things NonStop into adulthood.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: That's what well, that's that's what they're saying, is that
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: people came out I started.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Eating the suns of bitches. I still do I have
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: one yesterday I'll be like, sure, I'll tell you.
• 18:37
  Speaker 8: I think, yeah, if that's all they ate, maybe this
• 18:40
  Speaker 8: could happen.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: But we were camping. We were camping with some folks
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: two weekends ago, I guess, and they they had two kids.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: And at one point she turns to the kids and
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: she says, what do we remember about our pouches, and
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: they both were very dead serious and they said, we
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: only get one per day.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Since twenty ten, pouch consumption currency food pouch consumption since
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: twenty ten has increased nine hundred percent.
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: But over before there was none, So it's.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Like overtaking Jarred Pure as the predominant baby food on
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the market. That's true. When you go from something not
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: existing to existing, it is a big jump. That'd be
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: another way to put it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Automobile use his skyrocket, since.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it probably existed before twenty ten, so
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: it's maybe.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, too many of these, and it's also a highly
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: processed food. I'm a big Mad Max fan, and Mother's
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Milk plays heavily into Mad Max movies. And we're laughing
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: the other day. Yanni not a Mad Max fan, but
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I was like to point out, Yani used to drink
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of the Mother's milk, so we had we
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: used to My boyf would freeze the little bags of it,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you know, And I remember for years being real curious
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: before I finally had a little swig. But Yanni was
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: putting the stuff in his coffee the whole time. Oh yeah,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that was his half and half all through having babies.
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: That's my favorite noise curd natures.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I think that means what else you got?
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: Trying not to be judgmental, but I'm curious.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: No, I just yeah, he probably has a really good
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: immune system.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's friendly too. He's very generous, very
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: generous of spirit, like.
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: A ceremonial placenta consumption.
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah he did that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Did he do that too?
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I think he did put it in a
• 20:59
  Speaker 7: pie or lasagna or something.
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: That's right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like, yeah, that's right. We talked about
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: it's like a way to have cannibalism. That's not bad.
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: Hang on, guys, starting to wonder about coming up here.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Only one last thing to talk about, Brody, How quickly
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: can you do your Colorado thing?
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: I can do it quick.
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: This popped up in my news feed. Uh Mancos, Colorado,
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: Southern Colorado. A bunch of angry town residents uh tore
• 21:35
  Speaker 8: down miles of fencing that had barboe fence. That that
• 21:39
  Speaker 8: a mysterious religious group had blocked off fourteen acres of
• 21:44
  Speaker 8: National Forest Service land for what reason they claimed. They
• 21:49
  Speaker 8: claimed it was theirs under the Homesteading Act, But the
• 21:52
  Speaker 8: Homesteading Act was repealed what fifty years ago, nineteen seventies,
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: everywhere except Alaska, I think it went on for a
• 21:59
  Speaker 8: while long.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And they had homestead acted fourteen hundred acres.
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: They just said it was there.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: It doesn't really, Yeah, there's no real.
• 22:07
  Speaker 8: They're squatting on public land right.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Oh. And they're like the kind of people they're like,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: you know what, I've done some reading and I don't
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: have to pay tax.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: They're they're like a sort of a splinter group when
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: Warren Jeff Scott.
• 22:19
  Speaker 8: Yeah, the free Landholders Committee they called themselves. Yeah, but
• 22:25
  Speaker 8: a bunch of people in the town kind of got
• 22:27
  Speaker 8: fed up with that public land being fenced off and
• 22:30
  Speaker 8: went in there and tore it down.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: No one started shooting at each other.
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: No shooting, but you know, it's a heated, heated thing,
• 22:38
  Speaker 8: and the sheriff's office is kind of staying out of it.
• 22:42
  Speaker 8: They're not like they're saying it's a civil issue, and
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: so they're not arresting anyone for putting the fence up.
• 22:49
  Speaker 8: They're not resting anyone for tearing it down.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: How long ago was the fence put up?
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: Uh, you know, it doesn't say, but it sounds like
• 22:56
  Speaker 8: it's been around for a while.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: So one day the whole town's like.
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: Let's go turn it.
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: I think they're like, it's blocking access.
• 23:03
  Speaker 8: They hunt there, they fish there, they run motorcycle, snowmobiles,
• 23:07
  Speaker 8: all that stuff. They're worried someone's gonna get hurt by
• 23:09
  Speaker 8: the barberie fence. They're worried about the barber fence affecting
• 23:13
  Speaker 8: big game travel stuff like that. But nothing's like, they
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: haven't kicked these people off of national of the National
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: Force Service, just got rid of their fence, got rid
• 23:26
  Speaker 8: of their fence, and it's it's to be determined what's
• 23:29
  Speaker 8: going to happen, you know, if.
• 23:31
  Speaker 7: These people will actually be kicked off that.
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: Land or not.
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: So it's an ongoing issue.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: It's so odd that this was picked up in the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Miami Herald.
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: I know, it just popped up in my news feed.
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: Like I looked around and didn't see too much.
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: It just happened. It's like this all went down just
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: like a couple of weeks ago.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Uh. Starting November four, is the last thing we're talking about.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Before we talk about what you're here to talk about?
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, back, what are we talking about?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Starting November four, we got a new show called Rough
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: cuts with me dropping on Outdoor Channel and me Eater YouTube.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: So it'll eight pm every Monday starting November four and
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: presented by Moultree.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we kind of covered off on that. What
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: year we covered off on the tribal history, but I
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: want to I want to back up now and get
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: into this real good. What year was or roughly when
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: was the Wind River Reservation established?
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: That was established in eighteen I think it was in
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: eighteen sixties. It was before the state of Wyoming it
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: even became a state.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: Sixty eight I believe sixty eight stepping your toes, but
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: research eighteen sixty something.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and at that time those thirty million acres for
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: a couple of years, uh and then also knows two.
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: It was like three. And then a few other things
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: happened where bureau wreck came in and a government agency
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: started taking some land. They opened it up for homesteading
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: for non natives in the area. There's a Recomation Act
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: that came in where you'll hear about the Big Horn
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: water rights and stuff, the tribal waters and everything else,
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: the conflict that we're dealing with there. And so when
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: that opened up, at the time the BIA superintendent wasn't
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: even a tribal member at the time. He was a
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: non native, and he started selling off portions of the reservation.
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: Just to can I interrupt, you explain what bia is?
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: BIA is the Barrel of Indian Fairs. My bad. I'm
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: just used to talk to everybody who knows where he is.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: But yeah, and then so the Barrel of Indian and
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: Fares was run by non natives, and then when they
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: came in, they had the ability to sell portions of
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: the land. Anything around the river is anything that.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Would create what was that money?
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: It was airs. Whoever sold it got the money. So
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: the superintendent at the time got the money of the
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: land he sold at the time.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: It didn't go back to the reservation.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of fraud and misappropriation of funds
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: and stuff involved in that.
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah. And so the whole Bureau of Wreck irrigation system
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: on the Winter of Indian Reservation, it doesn't benefit any
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: tribal member on the reservation, goes bypasses a lot of
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: the reservation, goes into the river into the Boiston State
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: Park area, and just bypasses a big portion of the
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: Wind River itself and goes to agriculture for non natives
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: and then so a lot of that was built and
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: paid for by Bureau of Indian Affairs funding at the time.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: So you paid to have the water bypassed.
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: Travel mind Yeah, yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: How does how does today? How does game fishing game
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: management work on your reservation? And is that consistent with
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: reservations at large in the West like game management?
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: So every reservation is different, every landscape is different. You know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: on the Winter of Indian Reservation, the Shishonian Rappop tribes
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: have the authority to manage their their landscape and their
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: wildlife fishing, wildlife we use. We're one of the only
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: reservations that use US fish and wildlife biologists on a
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: reservation to help manage our landscape. And so we which
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: is another unique thing is that we also work pretty
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: good in Indian country for a state and a reservation
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: that doesn't happen very well on other reservations.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Cooperation between the state and the reservation.
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: Yes, and so we we team up with them with
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: a lot of our grizzly bear studies, our mountain sheep
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: or our bighorn sheep and everything else that we have
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: on the reservation. You know, we want to were unique
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: because we really take pride on our conservation efforts on
• 28:13
  Speaker 6: the Wind River Reservation, and so we team up with
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: all these other biologists and so we work Hanahan with
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: the state and US Fishing Wildlife.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: From an enforcement standpoint. And you spent years as a warden,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: right like you spent years in law enforcement.
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I as a Bureau of Indian Affairs police officer,
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: so as a federal officer, and then I came over
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: to travel fishing game.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: So if a if a Joe blow white guy like
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: me went on the wind Wind River Reservation and poached
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: a big horn, I'm in trouble. Not with the State
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: of Wyoming, I'm in trouble with you.
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: Well, you're in trouble with civilly. Travel fishing game will
• 28:51
  Speaker 6: come after you for your probably perfect credit score, and
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: then then we're gonna come after you federally with Lacy
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: Act charges with the US Fish and Wildlife Special Agent.
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: So not only are you civilly charged, so we can charge.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You twice, I mean the tribe can charge me.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we Well, the tribe can charge you civilly, and
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: then the US Fish and Wildlife will step in and
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: charge you, probably with the Fellamy case.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: That would come from the US Fishing Wildlife Service. Yes,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: because there's a lacy violation.
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: Is there a la it's a lazy violation because you're
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: on government land. So the land is still owned by
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: the US government. But we have the ability to manage
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: our own land, in our own natural resources.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: But I'm familiar with this is such a rabbit hole.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: But I'm for with the lasiac as applying to like
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: moving from one state to the other. But to move
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: on a reservation and off a reservation, does that count
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: as a LASIAC violation.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: No, You'll have to get an interstate tag. You know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: we have to give you permission and everything else to leave.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: So when you go from one reservation to another reservation,
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: you're just not from running reservation to the other. You're
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: going through state land and everything else. So there's an
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: interstate tag that you have to possessed with your travels.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And on the Wind River Reservation, hunting there is tribal
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: members only correct, Yes, and that also is different than that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: That's awful. Also managed differently on different reservations.
• 30:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, some reservations opened up bringing funding to their programs
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: and everything else like that. On the Wind River and
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: in reservation, we're kind of stingy with what we got.
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: But it's also wintering range for a lot of the elk, muldeer,
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: grizzly bears, wolves, everything else. The wintering range on the reservation.
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: The state benefits on how well we manage our wildlife
• 30:50
  Speaker 6: because we're in central Wyoming and so a lot of
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: the wildlife surrounding the reservation that you know, there's no boundaries,
• 30:56
  Speaker 6: there's no reservations to animals. They can come and go
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: as they please. And when we do better, the state
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: does better with a wild life yep.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: And talk about what wildlife you have on the reservation.
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: We pretty much have everything Yellowstone has. After one hundred
• 31:11
  Speaker 6: and thirty something years, we finally got buffalo background the reservation,
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: which is huge. That program that Jason Ball does is
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: doing is he's doing a really good job at it.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: And so we have grisse of bears, wolves, wolverines, prong
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: horned mule deer, elk, big orange, cheap yeah, I mean,
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: you name it, we got.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It, yep, mountain lions, black bears, everything, you know, everything
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: now not now probably a good number of wolves, oh yeah,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: you know, And how does like for tribal members. How
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: does it work? What is the sort of tag system
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: you know? I mean you have things that are under
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: quotas and not under quotas. Is that correct?
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So we have a huge number of white tailed
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: deer that's pretty unlimited antlope, nobody will hunt them up
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: on a reservation. So that's pretty much on limbit.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Did the elk each just not a popular animal for
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: members to hunt?
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: No, because we have I mean each enrolled tribal member
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: from both tribes gets four elk tags a year. You
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: get three calm calf tags, your rifle bull tag, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: then you get your archree.
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: How many people?
• 32:20
  Speaker 8: How many people live on the reservation and do you
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: know how many are like whatever active hunters or we have.
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: Probably a close to fifteen sixteen thousand tribal members from
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: both tribes on the reservation and we sell about eleven
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: hundred to twelve hundred hunting permits a year. It's that's
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: not very much at.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: All, right, how much does a hunting permit?
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: Ten dollars for the permit, seven dollars per tag for
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: one hundred and thirty two bucks, I think you can
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: get thirty six tags or something like that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And if if someone's working real hard. Well, if someone's
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: working really hard, do they have the ability to get
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that many elk? Is it like if they if they
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: put the time and they could fill that many elk tags?
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah yeah, pretty easy, especially for large families. So
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: we started a program. So like our bigger cheaps limited,
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: there's a quota we sell very few that's one hundred
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: dollars a tag. The moose quota that's one hundred dollars
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: a tag.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Are is that quota? Is that allotted through a lottery?
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And so what we do is our meal deer
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: is fifty dollars trophy milier. The whole month of November,
• 33:31
  Speaker 6: you get to hunt trophy milderh. We do an entry
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: fee to put your application and it's a ten dollars fee,
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: and then we start at the beginning of the year
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: and we do the release the information who drew in April.
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: Later on in the year, I guess chance for everybody
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: to turn into their application. We take that ten dollars
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: and uh, my program and other programs go out and
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: we harvest elk and everything else are any cases that
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: we get from poaching and stuff, and we get the
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: meat processed and then we go out and we deliver
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: it to like thirty three families on the reservation, elders
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: and needy families.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: What are the draw odds?
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: Way better than the states.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: A tribal member will draw a big horned sheep tag.
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: It's I mean it. The odds are going down because
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: the population is going up. It is oh yeah, yeah.
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: So I mean we're trying to get tribal members so
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: involved with our program to support it and build it
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: and make it better. You know, I don't know how
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: many trouble youth are putting in for the sheep and
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: moose and trophy deer and stuff now that they didn't
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: do before, And so it's growing. I mean it's harder
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: and harder. I mean before I had pretty good chance
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: every three years I could draw a sheep tag or
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: a moose tag. Now it's because once you draw, you
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: have to wait three years and then uh then you
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: can draw again. Yeah, but now with you know the
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: number of hunters coming up, it's harder to draw.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Your So you've drawn some sheep tags, I draw a few, Yeah, congratulations,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: My favorite.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you can explain a bit more about
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: the different philosophies between different reservations in terms of using
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: you know, non uh tribal members as a source of funding,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: because it does strike me as well, like I think
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: a lot of our listeners probably when they think about
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: hunting on reservations, they think about like high dollar auction
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: tags like in Arizona.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: Especially, Like.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: That's probably was this a conscious decision by by the
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: tribes to to you know, maintain that resource for tribal
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: members or sort of how is there pressure to open
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: it up? I'm just kind of curious, like what that
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: dynamic is, Like.
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so there is pressure, I mean, but there's outside pressure, yeah,
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: to come in to open it up for that phenomenal
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: hunting area the tribes. You know, like I said before,
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: our conservation efforts ethics are so important to us that
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: you know, why not keep it just for ourselves? I mean,
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: when you start bringing in money and opening up that
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: slippery slope of different things happening and losing what you have,
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: maybe it's not even worth the chance of doing it.
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: And so you know, being a hunter there on myself,
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: I love the idea I have to you know, wait
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: line or being a populated area where you go on
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: state side, But you know there's boundaries, and then in
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: one area, I might see one or two tribal members
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: hunting on the side of this creek. On the other
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: creek the state. When we go up and patrol that
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: opening day, there's three to four hundred vehicles on the
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: state side, maybe one tribal member on our side.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, because they're hoping to pick up elk coming off.
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: You're migrating back and forth.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: There, gotcha?
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: How does it? How does uh so?
• 37:01
  Speaker 8: Like for the state, a lot of the funding for
• 37:04
  Speaker 8: wildlife management comes from license sales.
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: Where are you get.
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: So the state? The state gets funding from the license cells,
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: they get funding from taxes from ammunition and stuff like that.
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: The state has other different opportunities that they get different
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: funding from the winter reservation. We don't have those opportunities.
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: We don't get any tax money for to help support
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: travel fishing, game program and no, don't try to do
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: uh so. We get a lot of our funding through
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: the Bureau of Indian Fairs. We get a lot of
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: funding through the cell of our fishing permits. We only
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: allow fishing only on the winter and in reservation, and
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: so we try to market that and use that to
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: bring in more funding. The US Fishing Wildlie steps in
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: and helps out and then we we've since I've been there,
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: we've kind of reached out and started working with nonprofits
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: and everybody else to go after different types of funding
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: for different types of projects and stuff.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: How much does it cost a non tribal member to
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: fish your reservation?
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: Different? I mean there's daily, weekly, monthly, and annually, and
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: so for about like one hundred ninety bucks you can
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: get an annual fishing permitt.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, does your does your tribe have We had a
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Klinget woman on the show and we're talking about the
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Marine Mammal Protection Act and she is a seatter hunter.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: The way the Marine Mammal Protection Act worked is they
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: establish what I'm sure you're familiar with, the term of
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: blood quantum, meaning that for Alaskan coastal Indigenous Coastal Alaskans
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: to participate in marine mammal hunting, they have to demonstrate
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I believe it was twenty five percent Yeah, twenty five
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: percent ancestry to coastal Indigenous Coastal Alaskans. How does how
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: is tribal membership work for you? And then does that
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: have any implication on how you participate in hunting on
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: reservation lands.
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: So you're talking about a tribal ID card, and yes,
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: we all have tribal ID cards that identifies us as
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: what kind of Indian we are and how much that
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: quantum we have.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Oh do you have an ID card on you right now?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I do, and it says what kind of Indian you are?
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Nor so, so if you get pulled over, you can
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: show this someone and.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Is that from Is that from the b I A
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: or is it from the okay.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Our tribal enrollment office?
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: Gotcha?
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: So if I came in, if I came in and married,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I'm already married. So this is just hypothetical. But if
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I was to come marry a northern Arapahole woman expired
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: pulls badge. Oh yeah, Northern tribe arthur Awsome really yeah?
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Oh degree of blood you're kidding me?
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: No? What mm hmm.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: There's a number on there too, it's our serial number.
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: It's so it's it's it's like being prisoners of war. Uh,
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: it's like being in a prison. Uh. That car identifies
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: me of who I am, where I'm at, and uh,
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: oh I to put.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: It, it's like name, rank and serial.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: Number, right, you gotta if you if you consider.
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: Like, well, I'll say this, like if when I do
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: a lot of cearch and rescue missions on a reservation
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: for native and non natives, right and before uh, we
• 40:59
  Speaker 6: can bring in any military helicopters or equipment to help us,
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: we have to get approval through a general because reservations
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: are still considered war zones. Hmm wow.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: So having that is not necessarily a mark of pride then,
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: or it can be.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: In you've got it twofold like one is like, yep,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: I'm an enrolled member. These are my people. I'm enrolled
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: and I'm in. You know, that's something that they can't
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: take from me. So yeah, you've got a sense of pride.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: On the other hand, when you're looking at the history
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: of how they did that was because they were trying
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: to essentially breach you out and so then that blood
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: quantum lessons and lessons and lessons and so pretty soon
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: they're not going to have any and that was kind
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: of the idea of it. So colonialism was probably not
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: the greatest thing because because you have, you know, still
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: in Indigenous children who don't won't ever be able to
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: say that because they've had that mixed.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, do you let me return to this hypothetical, Like
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I marry I would marry a rap a hole woman
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: on Wynd River, I don't become a tribal member. Correct, Okay,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: but our children.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Could potentially become If your wife was more than half,
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: if she was at least half, then your children would
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: be able to be enrolled because you have to have
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: a certain amount of blood quantum before you could be just.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: And that's but that's specific on what tribe too.
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: Correct, It depends on each tribe.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Had the Cherokee have a different.
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: Who sets that the tribes they get to set the
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: all during their treaty rights and are working in their treaties,
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: they got to choose how they wanted to manage their
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: population and then their area. So they got they got
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: to choose how they wanted the blood quantum to work.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: So in addition to that, like they have if like
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: our children, for example, are mixed Northern Arapaho and Ogalala,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: and then his mom is also from a Quinault Indian,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: so we've got that mixture and stuff. The Northern Arapaho
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: took all of that blood quantum and made our children
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: be almost like half Indian, so that.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask about that question, could you
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: ever get could you ever be from different tribes? But
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: then wind up having not blood quantum because you're from
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: different tribes. So they'll accept the indigenous blood.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: For my bloodline, though the Oglala would only accept the
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Oglala blood. So I have some rose bud on my side.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: But because we're only enrolled in one, I only have.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Oklawa like your other indigenous ancestry doesn't count, didn't count
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: to your Indian nests.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: Right, although although I am considered more than half Indian,
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: more than half Native there, it didn't count in my
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: blood quantum, and so the blood quantum I gave to
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: my children was less, but the Northern ara Appaho counted
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: all of it and stuff. So which great, because you
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: know what, you're indigenous. You're indigenous. If you if you
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: have a family that you came from that was indigenous,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: please say it, say it loud and be proud about it.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: You know, have you ever heard of a marriage? Have
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: you ever heard of a marriage that was good or
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: people that were gonna get married or that were that
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: were that we're gonna have children, But then the woman
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: or the man was like, I can't do this because
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: you're not because my children will lose their tribal identity,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: or my children will lose their tribal enrollment because you're
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: from outside, you're not indigenous, Like is this is this
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: like a thing that happens when people are finding mates
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: and growing up.
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: Earlier, I mean today's day. No, we don't hear of that,
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: but you know, like my grandparents, my parents maybe but
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: not not. You know, it's kind of you.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: Sometimes hear of how they didn't want to of of
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: some tribes didn't want to. I didn't want you to
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: marry outside of your race because you would you would
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: water down your bloodline. But also you can't you can't
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: tell people who they can love, So.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: About that.
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: Divorce you.
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: I have a Navajo friend who, though made it a
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: point she would not marry anyone outside of right, not
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: just her tribe, but I think there's a smaller.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Level of and they have plans.
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so she would not even marry outside of her clan.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: And that's a big thing. And I mean if you
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: think about how they how they raise their children and
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. The Navajo Nation is by far the
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: largest nation of indigenous people in our country. So and
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: you know, they keep their numbers the way they want to,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: but you know, you still have you still have people
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: who trickle out and marry in and right.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: I always I mean this is just a sort of
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: a non sequitor, but I'm always struck, Like with your
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: ID card, I feel like there's a lot of times
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: and you can just sort of walk through the world
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: and think like, oh, this is how this is how
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: things are, and you don't necessarily question things. But I
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: always find that when I'm traveling through a reservation, like
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: when you pull out that ID card, you realize how
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: profoundly people's individual lives are shaped by policy. And and
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: it's like the history is it is not history, it's
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: it's there in your wallet, right, like it's I don't know.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: It's always very striking to me that because there's a
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: lot there's a lot of people out there that can
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: sort of go through the world Lottida and and uh
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: and not have to grapple with like those big questions.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not just through the world, but through the West. Yeah. Yeah,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you know, drive all around it.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Their identity is in their pocket.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, uh, subject change you have because you
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: have management authority over your reservation, wildlife management authority, all
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: kinds of other authorities, but let's talk about wildlife management authority.
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: Sovereignty, mostly because that's what we want to show the world.
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: Do we have sovereignty?
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: So you have sovereignty over this piece of ground. And
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: there's areas, there are areas in which US law, Wyoming
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: law ends, and tribal law picks up. One of the
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: areas that I think is of interest, and I know
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: that you guys have done a bunch of work around
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: this is we have a thing in the US. We
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: have the Wildhorse and Burrough Protection Act. Okay, because I'm
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: bringing this up, because you spent a ton of your
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: career on this issue. We have the Wild Horse and
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Burrough Protection Act, which I'm gonna give a little background
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: kind of. If I screw this up, feel free to
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: crack me. It was in the seventies. Yeah maybe yeah,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, I gonna go way back. I'm not
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: going to go back to when the earth's crusted first ceridified.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back aways wild horses have been on
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: the landscape of the American West. See now I'm at
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: another crossroad. If Dan Flores was here, he'd want to
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: be talking about the place, the scene, and ice age horses.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to go back that far in the
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds horses. In the sixteen hundreds, late late, very
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: late fifteen hundred, sixteen hundreds horses were brought by the
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Spanish to initially into Mexico. A lot of those horses
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: were brought up into New Mexico, and those horses were
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: proliferated across the West, both as owned horses used by people,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and also at that moment was the beginning of the
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: wild horse. Okay, the wild or, depending on your definition,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the feral horse, because he's they were brought as livestock.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: They were brought here as saddle broke domestic livestock, but
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: they went feral quickly, just like pigs were brought to
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: what is now the United States of America. They've some people,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: pigs have always some of these pigs have always been
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: owned and bred and kept his livestock, and some of
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: those pigs from day one have always run around as
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: wild pigs. So we have domestic pigs and we have
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: wild pigs. We've had domestic horses and we've had wild horses.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Six since the sixteen hundreds in this For a while,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: the legal structure was such that you could just go
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: out and catch wild horses and you could sell them
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: to slaughter, and when the prices were pretty good, you
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: can make pretty good money. And during that time, wild
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: horse numbers got down low, and where people that were
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: big wild horse fans thought we need to protect the
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: remaining wild horses. And they made a tragic mistake. I'm
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: editorializing that was all just history. Now, I'm editorializing they
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: made a tragic mistake in the nineteen seventies and they
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: established a thing, a careful what you wish for thing
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: called the Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. And they here,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: and they came and said, because there's not that many,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: and people are being mean to them, and some people
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: like him, and some people like him, we hereby declare,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: not only are wild horses wildlife, you cannot touch them,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you can't kill them, which is not something we've done
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: for We didn't do that for big horns, we didn't
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: do that for elk, we didn't do that for grizzly bears.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: We didn't do that for any of our native wildlife.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: But we bestowed upon the horse this sort of status
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: without anticipating where we'd be today, which is in areas
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: of Nevada, areas of Arizona, areas of Utah, most reservations,
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: most reservations where you now have feral horses that are
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: out competing native wildlife and in some cases degrading the landscape.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Heffelfingers shared with me, I can't remember where he did
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: he ride or where he got it. Someone made like
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: a man if horses were managed his wildlife. Here's what
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: management would look like with horses, A lot of harvest.
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: How many do you know how many are roaming around
• 52:43
  Speaker 8: the Western United States?
• 52:45
  Speaker 7: Total?
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: Total? No, that different reservations. Very we don't know the
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: exact numbers of how many other reservations had. You know,
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: we were sitting pretty close to ten eleven thousand far
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: horses on two million acres. Well you know, actually less
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: than that, like a million acres because the habitat area. Again, yeah,
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: so I think the last I heard Navajo Nation might
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: have one hundred thousand a Yakama was pretty close to
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: one hundred thousand.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Far horses.
• 53:17
  Speaker 9: Horses.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of those. Because because of this,
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: this is last thing I say in the background, because
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: of this little problem they created that they you can't
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: hunt them, you can't send them to slaughter. What there's
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: so many of these things now that they're actually taking
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: them to eastern Kansas other areas where there's good grass growth,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: hiring ranchers to move out of beef production. And then
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: they take tax pair of money and pay those ranchers
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: to house horses which they truck from the Aird West too.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: And I went to I drove past a huge ranch
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: that is nothing but a guy that makes his money.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: Babysitting fair horses.
• 54:06
  Speaker 7: Bay horse like a sanctuary. They don't use them for
• 54:09
  Speaker 7: any they don't.
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: We're feeding water in them until they die of old age.
• 54:13
  Speaker 6: You know, at the average costume Wyoming where we're from,
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: for for one horse is nine thousand dollars a year.
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: What so the the amount of horses that we removed,
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: we figured we saved tax payers seventy two million dollars.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Okay with that big old setup, now that was my setup?
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: Is that okay?
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: Well set that up? Ye Okay.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Now let's break off and not break off and explain
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: the situation on your reservation and how you guys dealt
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: with dealt with the issue of competition with native wildlife
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: and habitat degradation and like kind of where you were
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: and where you're at now around wild horses fare horses.
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: So there's a lot of different issues with fare horses.
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's our livestock producers. You know, our numbers
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: have life producers on our reservation is not very big.
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: Our livestock producers don't have the numbers of private state
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: producers have, so our numbers are really small. You know,
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: we have ninety something range units, so we have ninety
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: something producers and their herds are ten to maybe one hundred.
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: Hopefully they're at one hundred making a little bit of
• 55:22
  Speaker 6: a bit of anny.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: You're talking like raise of beef cattle.
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so tribal members who are are our producers. But
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: with that we also have a ton of wildlife. You know,
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: we have huge pronghorn herd. We have meal or migrations
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: we have. We worked with the US Fish and Wildlife
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: in the state to bring in bighorn sheep into certain
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: areas the Washko Reservoir area, which is one area we
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: really try to take care of it and keep it
• 55:51
  Speaker 6: pristine for the cheap population to grow because you know,
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: sheep are also having issues, The milia are having issues,
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: all of our wildlife are having issues. And then we
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: just we're seeing that the damage that they were doing,
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: and the only thing that was growing back where these
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: big number of horses were at all over the different
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: parts of the reservation was we were only getting cheat
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: grass back. And then and then winters where we had
• 56:13
  Speaker 6: really bad winters, they were demolishing all the sagebrush habitat
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: for deer milder migration areas and then the wintering areas
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: for our milder and then we started started seeing a
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: big decrease on sage grouse and different types of birds
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: on the reservation. So our biologist teamed up with the
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: Bureau of Indian Affairs to say, we really need to
• 56:32
  Speaker 6: do something. We're at a crisis here. I mean, it's
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: getting so bad that we might even have to start
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: taking these range units away from tribal members because there's
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: not enough feed for production of just livestock. And and
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: so with that we came up with a plan where
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: I threw one hundred thousand dollars where we were hiding
• 56:55
  Speaker 6: tribal members or so like start catching them and just
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: start removing them. Let's ship them out and if there's
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: a buyer, there's a buyer. If not, well we'll just
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: give them away because there's just too many feral horses
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: just damaging our landscape.
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: Are you under this?
• 57:08
  Speaker 8: Are you under the obligation to manage them?
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: Under that? Like they're they're still protected on the reservation.
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: You can't kill them.
• 57:16
  Speaker 6: No, they're not protected on the reservation, so.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: They could you could, So you're you can totally live
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: outside of the Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. Yes, well,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: you could have built the slaughter plant if you wanted to.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Could have.
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: But I don't know if we wanted to go that round.
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: Were you talking about non native trespassing? I think I
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: would have had a bunch of them. But you know,
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: and so we we started doing big roundups and we're
• 57:39
  Speaker 6: moving horses and.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Can can you tell how you caught them?
• 57:42
  Speaker 6: Well, if first we started catching them on horseback for
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: side by side. We didn't have funding to operate to
• 57:49
  Speaker 6: do these big projects. You know, we didn't have the
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: money obligated to us from anywhere to start doing this.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Tell me, like, I'm like, I'm five years old.
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: How you catch them? So we we'd purchase panels, we'd
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: send out a few people on horses, a few people
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: on dirt bikes or side by side forwarders, and to
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: just try to push them down an alley and get
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: them going one way and gather them. We're averaging like
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: twenty a month or so, you know, really small numbers
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: and stuff. But the Bureau of Land Management uses contractors,
• 58:20
  Speaker 6: and so we started meeting with the State of Wyoming
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: and other federal agencies on how we could do this
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: at a bigger rate. Because the state was like, those
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: horses are going to be our problem if you can't
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: remove them, because they're not going to stay on the
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: reservation if there's no feed, you know, so there's no
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: boundaries for horses or wildlife. You know, we could show
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: that in our meal migration that they're going to leave
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: the reservation because there's not enough feed.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: And the state can't do anything once they're outside the reservation.
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: So they want you guys to succeed in your efforts.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Doesn't it a little bit depend on the area too,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, if one did walk, if one
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: walked out of wind River onto federal land. Is that
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: part of it is that within wildhorse habitat, like what
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: they call the wildhorse area.
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of fencing and there's a lot of it.
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: There was very many horses and others like that. So yeah,
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: if they if they left the reservation and went on
• 59:20
  Speaker 6: to federal properly, yeah, that's then that's their problem. But
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: we have no problem with that. We'd push them all
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: over there on that side.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 59:28
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 59:29
  Speaker 6: And so the state chipped in and said, well, well
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: we'll help you out, and they give us enough funding
• 59:33
  Speaker 6: or to remove like sixteen hundred horses, and then Berevin
• 59:36
  Speaker 6: and Fair stepped in is like, this is a good project.
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: Let's keep this going. And so three years we ended
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: up removing seven six hundred and thirty three horses off
• 59:44
  Speaker 6: the winter reservation. The results of that were overnight overnight results.
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: One area, we removed eight hundred horses off this reservoir
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: that was almost completely dry. I mean they just demolished
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: that right.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Like they drank it dry.
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So you know, like here's your your natural springs
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 6: and stuff would all kind of meet up at a
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 6: drainage and then start filling up reservoirs and stuff. Well,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 6: they would stomp in those springs and everything else, and
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: the reservoirs would get so full of that by the
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: middle of the summer, they'd be completely dry. And we
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: had eight hundred horses on one reservoir. The contractors push
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 6: those out and we ended up catching half of those
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: horses that day and then I mean the next morning
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: at sun up, we had it over three hundred elk
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: and on that same.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Otive war because the horses kick them out.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, there's no national predter for horses. The grizzly
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: bears won't bother them, wolf stoles then't bother them, mountain
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: lions don't bother them, and elk don't like them. Elk
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: don't like them, military don't like them. I'm really excited
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 6: to see the outcome of the Mildia migration study that
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: we're doing with the University of Wyoming. How if they're
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 6: they're going to stay on the same route where they
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 6: had to stay high and travel off the reservation into
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 6: the Teton National Forest where they summer. If they now
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 6: they have the abilit to go anywhere they want on
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: a reservation because they don't have to compete for food.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 8: Is there a situation where you got to worry about
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 8: the remaining horses their population blowing up again or is
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: it a pretty Once you knock them down, they're probably
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 8: gonna stay knocked down.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: The horse population doubles every four years, so we still
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: have to do our management process of keeping those numbers down.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 6: And so, I mean it's that's like overnight. I mean,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: you will see five or six horses, you know, four
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: years that number doubles just that fast. And so we
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: now that we've got to a managing level where we
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: want to sustain between one thousand and fifteen hundred fer
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: horses on the reservation. We want to do little roundups
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: and do things like the Honor Farm and everybody else
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: is doing well. We could start breaking them. We could
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: start using these horses for some of our back country
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: outfitters in the fishing industry, or we could break them
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 6: and sell them. I use them for something, you know.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's not like we have a me and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: heart and just want to go in there and destroy
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: this whole population of feral horses. But yeah, and we
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 6: get it. There's a lot of people on the reservation
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 6: in the state of Wyoming that still use horses. But
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 6: with technology and dirt bikes and side by side and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: four olders, you don't have to use a horse like
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 6: you used to and and a lot of these horses.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: I mean we had brands on them, the ones that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 6: we caught. That's why I really expressed.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: How who had branded them?
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 6: People from all over the United States. I mean we
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 6: got brands from Iowa, Nebraska.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Just all all over from people dumping them.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, people dump them. Yeah, you know.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: I years ago, I was working on a story about
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: livestock theft, like contemporary cattle rustling, and uh, some of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: the stock detectives I was hanging out with made an
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: interesting observation because I was asking about horse theft, and
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: they said, when we had horse slaughter plants, there's Indiana,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Texas had too. He goes, there was such a thing
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: as horse theft. Now we have the opposite. There's the
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: opposite of horse theft. You don't wake up and see
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: that your horses are gone. You wake up and see
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: that you have new horses. Because people at that time,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: like there was no outlet. There's no outlet for lame horses.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: There's no outlet for old horses. There was a lot
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: of drought that had riten driven down hay production, and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: they were too expensive to keep, and so people would
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: just pull up at night and cut horses loose.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: I'm also a livestock investigator on a reservation and we
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 6: have issues of that. I mean, we can we know
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: when there's more horses showing up in certain areas. And
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: the biggest thiefs on the reservation of stealing horses are
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 6: the fer horses. They love every brand new panel, they
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: love every brand new gate because they'll go in there
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: and break them and so they can get to the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: other marriage and the other horses. And so next thing
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 6: you know, you got branded horses running around all the
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: and people are saying, well, I know they're not stolen
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 6: because I seen or heard of far horses running around God,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 6: and it became such a big issue. I mean when
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: I say fences and gates, I mean I'm telling the truth.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 6: We it became such an issue, but that many for
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 6: horses running around it maybe became a highway safety issue too.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 6: I mean, we were getting horses hit on some of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 6: our main roads, and that's why we became livestock investigators
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 6: on the reservation so we can manage these horses. And
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 6: I mean, you don't know how many fences and stuff
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 6: that we fixed. There's a tribal fishing game and the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 6: range unit with bure of Indian and fairs and stuff
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: like that. It's just they just do a lot of damage,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: not just to the forage, but also fencing and everything else.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 5: It's so weird and unfortunate that the shift comes when
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: something doesn't have a monetary value anymore. And I just wonder,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: you know, what it might take if there is anyone
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: thinking about building or bringing back horse slaughter. I was
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 5: going to ask you if you've ever You know, there
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: are people in other countries and other places that are
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: more open and amenable to either consuming horse meat or
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: putting it in dog food or doing something with it
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: that I think most Americans seem adverse.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Do you know where Rocker Montana is?
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: If you go over Homesteak Pass and you pass through
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Butte and then you come to Rocker Montana. You know
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: those little coffee kios Yeah, on the vanguard of building
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: coffee kios So I'm talking. This woman had a coffee
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: kiosk in the late nineties in Rocker Montana. There was
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: a novelty to see one back in them days. One day,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I'm chatting her up as she's making a coffee, and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: you know, what her job was prior to opening a
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: coffee Kiosk and Rocker, Montana. She would buy horses for
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: the Japanese market. She would buy good looking meat horses
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: and they would fly them on a ce one thirty
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: wow to Japan and live to be caught in Japan.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: And those those horse slaughter plants was Illinois or Indiana?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: There was two in Texas.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: There's I think there's one in Illinois. Didn't blow up.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but it wasn't like they didn't become
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: federally illegal. It just became impractical and pressure to close them.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: I think you guys should I mean, how how open
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: are you to a white guy telling you what you
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Indians are doing.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 6: I'm on the same page. I thought the same thing
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: as myself.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: You know, you know what you people ought to do.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: I mean the Italians. I've eaten horse. The Italians make,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: you know, like they cure horse meat, just like a
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: lot of them got park et cetera. And Italy is
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: not the only country.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: Like after World War One there was a big there's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of horses rounded up and canned and shipped
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: over to Europe because you know, food production was so
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: low over in Europe after World War One. But I
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: remember reading about that, like there's this huge craze. People
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: were just going around and grabbing horses and uh canning
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: them and sending him to Europe.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I can't even remember I got I got a friend.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what year has happened. But he had
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: to go to Uzbakistan for work. And his body's like, listen,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: you're gonna get there and they're gonna give you a
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: big glass of mayor's milk. Just drink it. There's no
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: getting around it. And he gets this big glass of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: mayor's milk and he's just dreading, so he just ns
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: and he slams it. But he did it with too
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: much gusto. They gave a refills. How many did How
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: many do you think you guys had on the reservation?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Ten thousand and what's a comfortable number?
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: Thousand?
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: Were some tribal members pissed because they could have gone
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: out and caught horse, because were guys going out and
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: catching them and breaking them?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well there's there's no law, there's no act. I mean,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: both councils did a resolution. Were a tribal memory if
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: you're in rolled off our reservation. You can want catch
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: as many horses as you want, but brand it and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: then it belongs to you. And then if it's released,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 6: they catch it again, then we have the right for
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 6: your your life stock trespassing. So if you're gonna catch it,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 6: keep it, sell it to whatever you want with it.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 6: So travel members can still go out and catch as
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 6: many as they want.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, but that the incentive isn't strong enough for tribe, Like,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: the economic incentive isn't great enough to keep up with
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: the with the production of the horses.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 6: You're gonna spend more in fuel and food catching horses
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 6: than you are gonna sell them. And I like I said,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 6: the average cost for a horse didn't stay a whom
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: He's nine thousand a year. You know, it gets pretty
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: pricey when I keep it manage horses.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So when you buy a horse, I mean I'm
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: not talking about reservation just in general, when you buy
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: a horse, it's not the purchase price that's getting you,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: it's maintenance.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 6: Well, it depends if you get a good quality horse.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 6: I mean they're twenty thirty thousand dollars, yeah, and then
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 6: the maintenance after that, I mean you have to have
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: pretty good hey, make sure you know they don't blow up.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: And if you're spending that much money on a horse, yeah,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: you want to make sure they're feaking right.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, then you gotta do your vet bill. You got
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 6: brand inspections, you gotta. I mean, it's like on in
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: a vehicle. You got to take care of it.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: But are are any of those Are those feral horses
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: that are on Wind River? Do they ever have the
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: potential of being a high dollar saddle horse?
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: Yes, they can, like the horses that were branded, and
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 6: then you know we throw breads, I mean some big
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 6: livestock or you know that they use for bare back
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 6: and everything. Horses that could barely get into our pineals
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: because they were so big. Yeah, there's a chance. And
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 6: you can tell the horses that were there for a
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 6: longer time or smaller and bread not very good horses
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: at all. There's nothing you could That's what I was
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 6: going to ask.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 8: Can you look at them and be like, well, that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 8: one has some potential to be a workhorse or a
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 8: riding horse, and that one will never will never be
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 8: able to tame that thing.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 6: The horses has about the same size of its body. Yeah,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 6: you know, you know, yeah, I mean, you can really tell.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 6: You can tell the difference. And uh, when you see
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 6: one that's just beautiful and you know, coming in from
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: a distance, and then when you get it to the
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 6: trap or the panels, oh there's a brand. Yeah, that
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 6: could be a pretty good horse. Well that's running with
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: all these other horses, and you know it's you can
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 6: tell them. And but when you start dealing with the
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 6: studs of those different herds, truly like wild wild ones. Yeah,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 6: the ones that had never been cut or anything else
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 6: are mean. I mean they are aggressive. You've seen a
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 6: wolf forare mountain line attack anything where they bite the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 6: neck and start shaking their heads and stuff. Those studs
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 6: are just as mean as any of those other predators.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, we've seen studs kill other studs just to
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 6: keep their away with their teeth, with their teeth, kicking,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 6: biting anything they can.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: Their hooves are so sharp.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Do you guys keep horses of your own?
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: We used to, Yeah, year we no longer play with livestock.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: What was the outlet for all the horses you caught?
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: So we, uh, we pretty much just gave him away.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 6: We gave them to Mexico, Canada, whoever, whoever wanted to
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 6: would take them. We helped pay for the shipping and
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 6: everything else.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: They paid for, like the vets and everything like that.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 6: It's not a money maker. We did brand inspections, we
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 6: used the state brand inspectors, state vets. So we did
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 6: everything legal and we did you know, we documented everything
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: and we did the process of shipping off. Whoever wanted
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 6: them could take them. I have horse sanctuaries one of them,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 6: they could have them. We did as long as they
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: did destroying our wildlife habitat. We we we really didn't care.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: Base based on the results that you're getting, have other
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: tribes come in to try to learn from the program
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: that you've initiated. I mean, obviously, like outside of Indian country,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: the wild horse and brow protection are prevents anybody from
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: really learning a lesson. But other tribes could implement similar programs.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 6: Right Yeah. And a lot of it is looking for funding,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 6: looking for opportunities to get stuff like that up. Ago
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 6: and I did the presentation at the sheep so Reno
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 6: last year, and we had a lot of trouble programs
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 6: and stuff there, And so I mean, we're willing to
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 6: help out whoever whenever. Any other other nation we're we're
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 6: willing to help out other tribes.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: It's basically finding finding the funding, having them find the
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: funding to be able to pull off an operation that big,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: and then finding the buyers or or the transporters to
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: be able to get them to where they need to go.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 6: There's no we're all, there's no it's it's not a
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 6: money maker right there. There's no profit into it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: It's just yeah, fills of money maker probably wouldn't become
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: a problem.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't have been yet.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And like you know, we talked about our controvation ethics.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 6: I mean, we were when River was the first one
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 6: with the Wilderness Act. We were three our nineteen thirties.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 6: We were before anybody else in the United States.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: You guys created a wilderness area.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 6: We were the first one the roadless areas. Yep.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: I can we back up? I want to hear about this,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: but I got one final last horse question. If you
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: catch a okay, you catch a branded horse and you're like,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: what in the world this horse is from some guy
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: in Colorado? Is he all right?
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: Do you?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Can you say to him listen, man, come get your
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: horse like the dog. I'm not going to pay money
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: to ship your horse to you. Your horse is here,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: come get it.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 6: Oh well, we'll impound those horses. We'll get ahold of
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 6: the owner to the brand inspection, to the state. Uh well,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 6: inform him, inform him that you know, it cost me
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 6: two hundred and fifty bucks to catch this horse, plus
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 6: forty dollars a day for feeding water. So every day
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 6: that we we haul this horse while we're gonna civilly
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: charge you the amount that it cost us to a
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 6: house this horse and deal with it unless you want
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 6: to come up to win River and sign off and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 6: saying that the tribes are ownership and then we could
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 6: do what we want with it. And that's how it
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 6: usually works most of the time. They just sign off
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 6: on them. Yeah people, because yeah, we have we've been
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 6: pounded twenty two twenty three certified quarter horses and the
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 6: lady ended up paying almost twenty five thousand to get
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 6: them out of inpound.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: Wow, how did they lose? I have a second horse?
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: So did she lose horses?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 6: Livestock trespassing is still an issue in the West. She
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 6: turned them out, well yeah, and depended on somebody else
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 6: to manage them and take care of them for her.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: But they got loosed, and I mean they got let loose,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 6: and and she was good, grass is greener on the
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 6: other side. And so yeah, they they ended up on
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 6: the reservation and we impounded them, and.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: They didn't come knock and saying, hey, I think my
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: horse is around your place, so I should try to
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: go to find them.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 6: No want that. We we had five semis and we
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 6: were going to impound eighty six pairs of cows beef
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 6: on the reservation that somebody was trespassing on. And so
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 6: it's it is an issue, I mean kind of wrestling
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 6: and everything back in the West. We still there's still
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 6: a lot of that going on on the reservation.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Wind River may their wilderness.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 6: Area yep, first ones.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: How did you guys define it? Like, how did it work?
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 6: So it was it was between the tribes, US fish
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 6: and Wildlife, the Forest Service. There was a it's such
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: a unique area. The winter over mountain ranges is so phenomenal,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 6: and you know, they had a meeting about how how
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: do we protect this place, how do we keep this pristine,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 6: how do we keep it looking like the eighteen hundreds
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 6: and stuff, and so tribes are like, well, we'll just
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 6: close it all off. So they have areas where they'll
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 6: never do any production on the reservation. So you know,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: you know when you go up to the sland snow
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 6: line of certain areas, you know there's no uh habitat
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: wilderness area. They the tribes brought that clear down to
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 6: the snow line and decided that we are not going
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 6: to have any production in these areas because we want
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 6: to protect our wildlife. And so we're we'll have no housings,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 6: no businesses, no no roads, anything else. And so we're
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 6: these areas are we're going to protect.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: How big are some of those areas?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 6: So the our all wilderness area is like one hundred
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 6: and eighty eight thousand acres.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: That's great, man, that's huge. That's probably sheep country.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, sheep country. Well, moose mule there, you know those
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 6: high country mule. There a lot of elk habitat areas
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 6: and stuff.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Man, I want to come home this place.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: Talk to oh man, you gotta become reborn in the different.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm not going to marry.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: You had a guy. You had a guy. You had
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: a guy that did put a monetary value on a
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: sheep tag, right like you had a few.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: They could be quite valuable a few, yes, especially at
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 6: the sheep show. I mean we're we house. We take
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: care of some of the biggest wild sheep herds in
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 6: the lower forty eighths with the State of Wyoming and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 6: same thing. They migrate on and off the reservation and stuff,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 6: and so we do tremendous amount of work with bighorn sheep.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 6: I mean it's emovi pneumonia, the disease that domestic sheep
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 6: give to the wild sheep and stuf.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 7: Is there domestic sheep on the reservation.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 6: Or is it mostly surrounding the reservation on the state side.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 6: There was a few domestic sheep back in the day,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 6: but there's no value marketing to that either. So we
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 6: do a lot of work with the state and the
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 6: Feds and stuff to protect those those sheep herds and stuff.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: So how many bighorns might be on the reservation at
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: any given time at the right time, I don't know
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: what the right time of year is, but a couple
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: of thousand, and they're using your land. Uh, they're using
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: wind River winter or summer.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 6: I see they start moving in in the fall and
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 6: something like the big rams. They don't even leave the area.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 6: They'll stay there all year. A lot of the ewes
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 6: Uh they migrate back and forth at different places. And
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: then it also depends on predator situations, wolfs, everything else
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 6: that's chasing them around and stuff. You know, it's it's wildlife.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: They you don't really know what they're gonna do. But
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 6: we do have a good population of sheep.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: With your buffalo program, are you trying to bring in
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: sort of tribally owned free ranging herds or are you
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: having are you trying to establish tribal members as producers
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: for the for the market both both okay both.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 6: One of the big reasons why we wanted to remove
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 6: feral horses is so that there was forged to release
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 6: a buffalo on our reservation so tribal members can have
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 6: the opportunity to harvest like we used to. And then
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 6: we also saw there's a few producers that want to
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 6: go into the buffalo market, and the tribes already have
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 6: there's two herds right now, the Eastern Shoshoni Northern Rappo
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 6: each have their own herds that they're trying to grow
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 6: and release so tribal members can harvest right now. When
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 6: we do harvest, it's usually we have a tribal youth
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 6: come in and do it and stuff like that, and
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 6: so we make it a huge educational experience for the
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 6: tribal youth and elders to come in and talk about
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 6: it and relive history.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: What time of year does that happen.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 6: It happens to different parts of the year. We're actually
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 6: going to do another one here pretty soon, I think
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: in a couple of weeks.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: Would you ever let us come down and watch that?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 6: That so to me, Yeah, I mean i'd be great,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 6: but I get everything to proved through both councils. I
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 6: work for both tribes and so I usually I have
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 6: to ask permission from them for approval for anything.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be cool to talk to the kids
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: and stuff who were involved.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and we, I mean our youth program that we
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 6: do on the reservation is that we have more pride
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 6: in that than we do catching horses.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: Do you have Do you have tribal members that come
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: up and do the the hunt out of the park here?
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, gardener yeah, oh well yeah, yeah, we're taught
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: a big fan.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Tell me what you mean.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: You show up to one little area, you wait for
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 6: the buffalo to migrate, and then you stand in line.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: And also you're not a big I don't know if
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: you meant you're not a big fan of that management strategy,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: but you mean just the experience, isn't.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, I want to harvest buffalo. I want to
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 6: go out and go earn it and work for it.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: And then do you know, like we do elk or
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 6: hear or anything else?
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: Can I can I give a little background on this,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: and then again you can crack me if I screw
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: something up. All right, So we've talked about this bunch
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: over the years. But I don't know, man, if you
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: go back to the I guess it'd be the late nineties,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: buffalo numbers in Yelsow National Park got up enough. Like
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: a good way to think about it is they can
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: usually hold three or four thousand, This is generally accepted number.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: But now and then it'll jump. It'll be seven or
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: eight thousand. And when they get the certain numbers in
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: the park and you get to a certain severity of
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: winter in the park, the animals will move out of
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: the park. They'll go out into West Yellowstone area and
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: they'll come out the north entrance into the Upper Yellowstone
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: Valley in the gardener Historically, like of all native wildlife.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: That's the only one that loses its wildlife status as
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: it crosses a boundary, meaning grizzly bear, wolverine, elk, big horn,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: sheet meal deer, white tailed deer, pronghorn, anaelope, any of
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: these animals. If he leaves the park, he remains wildlife
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: right at that the minute of buffalo leaves Yelsol National Park,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: even though it's native wildlife, the minute it walks out
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: of the park, it fell under the jurisdiction of the
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: Department of Livestock. It became like free ranging livestock. You
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: don't like this.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 6: I don't like the rabbit hole you're going down too,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 6: because I could sit here for days and go over this.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'll back out of the rabbit hole. I'm
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: just trying to lead up to this. Some years it
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: got to where the in Montana, it got to where
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: the Department of Livestock was getting shooting a bunch of them.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: They shoot them, they cut them, send them off the
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: slaughter and after a while, I think it was in
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: the early two thousands, a bunch of tribes in the West,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: like any tribe that had a historical claim to the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: presence on that landscape, and there could be the Nez
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Perce who would come from from Washington and Idaho and
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: they would have come in that area. Su would come
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: in that area. There's like the history of the Blackfeet
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: coming in that area, like all over the Flathead tribe.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: Right, sailors, like all these people all part of their
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: treaty rights.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they would all utilize the area. And so a
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: bunch of tribes maybe this is this is my understanding,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: correct me, I'm wrong, A bunch of tribes that listen,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: if if you're gonna be doing all this harvest, our
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: tribal members are going to come exercise treaty rights and
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: we're gonna do some harvests. And they also they do
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: the tribal hunts like tribes have. They just come when
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: that's the right time when they're coming out. And then
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: the state also conducts like a public draw hunt, which
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: usually comes later and which comes later in the year.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Is that all fairly okay?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: Now what was the part I said something that you
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: didn't like the sounds of.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 6: It's just it's a rabble hole. I mean, I could
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 6: issues all day along with how buffalo are treated through
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 6: livestock and the burcelosa's issues and everything else. You know,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 6: we there's still no not one case ivan scientifically proven
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 6: that a buffalo ever gave livestock.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: It's a red herring. So it's a thing. It's a
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: thing that people bring up because it's it's like people
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: bring up brucellosis because it's easier than bringing up what
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: they're really talking about. What they're talking about is competition
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: with cattle.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 6: That's all about money.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: Fencing issues. But they say brucellosi is like, okay, well,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: if brucellosis is the issue, then why don't we kill
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: every elk?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Why is no one talking about killing every elk who
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: also has brucellosis.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 6: Exactly?
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: It's like, how this how this brucellosis thing is still discussed,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: blows my mind when it's it's not happened and elk
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: have it. If you came in Montana and you ran
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: on if if a politician in Montana came and said,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: I got an idea, there's a risk that elk will
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: pass brucellosis to cat, so we'd like to kill all
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: the elk.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of elk share in the landscape.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Like people would be like, are you insane? But that's
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: but you can say it with buffalo.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 6: Well yeah, well, and you can say far horses are
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 6: wild horses and they're good for the habitat area. They're not.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 6: We have scientific proof that that's not the case. You know,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 6: how can certain groups have the ability to stop and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 6: manage and stop things from happening? You know, it doesn't
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 6: make any sense to me, you know, I, like I said,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 6: we really take pride in our controvation ethics and stuff.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 6: And so again, maybe thirty years from now, Oh yeah,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 6: farrow horses are a bad idea. Let's get rid of them, yeap?
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: What will your what would be a perfect scenario for you,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: like if you think of a if you think of
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: a a wild tribally owned buffalo herd and when river,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: what would be a number if you like, what would
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: be a number of animals that would be plausible.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 6: For buffalo herd?
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 6: Oh, it'd be in the thousands, you think so?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you could have heard it would rival the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: size of Yellowstones.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, we'd have an area, we have areas big
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 6: enough that we could manage to We could migrate from
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 6: south of the Big Wind and head north into the
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 6: out Creic Mountain. Range and stuff and then come back.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 6: You know, they'd have enough room to roam a lot
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 6: of that area. You know, a couple thousand buffalo would
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 6: be a lot better than ten thousand four horses. Sure, man,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 6: And you know how good you know, you know what buffalo,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 6: how good they are for an environment and how they
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 6: bring back the forage and make everything better. You know
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: it would if we could get those numbers up and
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 6: release them and start moving buffalo right away. I think
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 6: our forage and our landscape would turn around and come
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 6: back faster than what we're planning on doing with Fremont
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 6: County Waton past spraying we drew and trying to grow
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 6: back that that doesn't exist there anymore.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how would you how would you get him? Are
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: are you guys eligible to get park ones?
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 6: So right now Jason bald is doing a phenomenal job.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: He's getting like our own quarantine facility and everything else.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 6: I mean, this guy is killing it and bringing the
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 6: buffalo back and doing a phenomenal job of bringing them back.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: And so I think, and he's a tribal member, Yeah.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 6: He's an Eastern Shoshoni tribal member, and then Northern Rappo.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 6: He kind of oversees both programs, Shoshoni's and a rappoles,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 6: and he goes after all the funding and it helps
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: bring back purchase land and ranging. It's from barre Obnion
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 6: first to manage his buffalo.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: Got it. And when you have if you were to
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: have tribal members become producers too to sell in, that
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: would be a totally separate program or where the two
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: programs kind of meld in some way.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 6: They'd probably kind of meld in some way. I mean
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 6: we we would definitely have to kick back in Barobini
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 6: infairs to help manage that. And I'll oversee everything stuff,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 6: make sure the range units, defencing, everything is protected and
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 6: belt right.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are guys that maybe do beef now
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: that would would like to go into that market.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 6: There's a few that we know of. Yeah, we've been
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 6: in conversations with a few. Because I also have to
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 6: do a lot of work with the livestock producers on
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 6: the reservation too.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, does a does a livestock producer on the reservation
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: does he have to buy does he have to lease
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: grazing rights from the tribe least.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 6: Graze rights in different range units. So there's like ninety
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 6: something different range units on the reservation. Some are shared,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 6: some are just wow one producer.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, uh, help me understand this, this this question
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: for both of you. How do you how do you feel.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: If I say, what do you think? If I say Indian?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: What do you think? If I say Native American? What
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: do you think? If I say indigenous? Am I saying all?
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: Is to use it all the same word? Or is
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: there a way that you'd prefer for not how you
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: talk about you? Is there a way you prefer me
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: to talk about you to you? To Randall like, is
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: there a word that I say that You're like, uh,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: disappointed that I would say that word? Not to me, no,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: but to him.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: If I said talk, if you were having a private
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: conversation with between you and random, and he would say,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: do you mean Indians or Indians?
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 6: What are you talking about?
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: What type of Indians are you talking about? Whereas if
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 3: you say, I'm we're talking to some an indigenous couple
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: today she's from South Dakota and he's from Wyoming, or
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: two Native Americans coming, I.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: Mean, that's that's better.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: The better way I would say, I don't know you're
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: going to talk to me you're going to talk to nobody.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: No not, I mean I can't, but I'm asking asking you.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you didn't realize where your audience was,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: like who is standing behind you as you were saying it?
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: How would you say it? You know, that's that's your
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: internal compass telling you how you should address people.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, uh, I think what could like where I
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: find confusion about and the reason I'm asking and I think,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: I mean and I can tell you, I can promise
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: you in my world, the confusion and sort of apprehension
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: is widespread, right because you you'd hear, you know, you
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: hear a politician and your tribal members say Indian country.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: I would have a very hard time saying I was
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: over an Indian country, like I just I don't know.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: That strikes me somehow.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: It's more of the the historical commonplace that it's been
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: called Indian country if you think about it in terms
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: of what it actually is. They're more of in tournament camps.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: And we're still living on federal land that is given
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: to us, and we're gonna call it and the and
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 3: the federal government's gonna call it Indian country.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 6: Well, even on every old map that you see. I
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 6: mean every in the history books, you know those lines
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 6: everything is Indian Country, and then then you have the
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 6: names of the different tribes and stuff there. So through
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 6: through history it's always been called Indian country, you know,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 6: through the wars and everything else.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had uh, I guess I find myself casually
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: saying like, like random, I will be like Indigenous Native
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: American Indian. It's just like, you know, yeah, that's what
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: I want to say. You know, I'm just asking do
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: I want to know?
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely? Thank you for asking?
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's my next question. Does it bother you
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: that I'd ask?
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 6: No, it's more surprising. It's more surprising that somebody would ask.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 6: Somebody did ask.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: Well. I could also see you thinking, do I really
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: have to tell you this?
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think for us, you know, because we're right,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: we're we're working on historical projects, right, and I think
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: our best practice has always been, like, when you can
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 4: specify someone's individual identity or their tribal identity, that's that's
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: the best practice, right, and recognize that person and who
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: they are. But a lot of times when we're going
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: through primary sources, you just get a reference to you know,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 4: we saw an Indian, and so you're sort of left
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: maybe guessing as to who that is. But it's just
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: something that we run into in the work that we
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: do in terms of our writing projects.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've even put that sort of clarifire and we
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: did one we did a American history piece on the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: deer skin trade of the Eastern Seaboard and Appalachia, and
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: that was called like the Long Hunters, and it was
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: seventeen sixty three to seventeen seventy five, and it focused
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: on the deer skin trade. In explaining the landscape, like
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: how we're going to talk about it, we talked about
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: where possible identify like the individual, where possible identify the tribe.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: But oftentimes when dealing with descriptions of written record, it's
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: just there is no tribal identification right and right now
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: we're working on one about the Mountain Man era, which
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: is like the beaver skin trade. So the height of
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: like the height of the beaver market, which we kind
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: of bracket off as being I don't know, it's a
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: hard The end bracket is eighteen forty. The beginning bracket
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: is like somewhere around eighteen four eighteen ten. Like the
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: height of the beaver skin trade when these were incredibly
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: valuable and there was this big push of people into
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: catch beavers, trade for beavers. We again say that we
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: try to use tribal identification like like who, but at
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: times like we get in this thing like this one
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: guy in his journal, it's just Indians. So we'll point
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: out like, no idea, what who he's talking about.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: Well, you'll have to let me know. I have a
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: strong familial background in the trades of the beaver trading,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: the fur traders and stuff.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, really tell me about that.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: I my ancestors are were a couple of French trappers
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: who married Lakota women and they came from Saint Louis. Yeah,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: Antoine and Nicholas Denie. So so part of the history
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: of it is Antoine Antoine Jennie actually homesteaded in the
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: Pewter Valley and near Laporte by Fort Collins. His cabin
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: still stands, and he was moved by the cavalry back
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: to the Pine Ridge Reservation him and his brother Nicholas,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 3: and Nicholas as my direct descendant. So yeah, they both
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: married Lakota women and they both died on the Pine Ridge.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: Indian reservation.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: Really, Oh, we'll keep her eyes peeled.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me the names again, Antoine and Nicholas Denise.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, And then what is uh so on your on
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: the Aglala Sue side of your family? What was the
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: like when you go back to like matriarchs, what was
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: your family's name.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: They did it?
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: I guess like like maid however you think of like
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: what the equival of maiden names or whatever.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: So some of them there's a there is a correlation
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: of a descendant to the one of the wives. And
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: I can't remember if it was Antoine's or Nicholas's wife
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: was the niece of Red Cloud, of chief Red Clouds,
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: So I guess that kind of.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: Correlation because it's not like a like in the culture,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: there's not like a last name structure, right, right.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 6: A lot of them come from the different chiefs, like
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 6: my found on the Northern Rapples, right, we all come
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 6: from Cheap Friday. So when I I'm related to every
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 6: Friday on the reservation, and I'm related every handway, and
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 6: I'm related to pretty much almost everybody on every rapper
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 6: when reservation.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: But with the Rappo too, there wasn't a you know
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: how like like we track like a family tree or
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: like generally you go like we're sort of patrilineal in name,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: meaning it's like this this series of fathers names and
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: maiden names fall away and and native culture in the
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: western tribes we're talking about there's not a way by
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: a name. I mean, if we talk about red Cloud,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: we talk about crazy Horse, there's no thing in the
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: name that travels on the captures your your your ancestry. Correct, Okay,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: each person takes an individual name that doesn't carry with
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: it who like who your dad was, who you're was, right.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a colonial structure.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 6: And we didn't see on my side, we didn't really
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 6: start seeing ours until.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Paul Bridger.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 6: Uh, my grandpa's brother was named Paul Bridger after uh Bridger,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 6: the famous Yeah.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: Jim Bridger. Jim Bridger married his third wife was Shashone
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: and so.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 6: Like my my oldest brother, his name is Bridger. You know,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 6: you don't hear that somebody was born in the early
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 6: seventies and stuff, but he was only one round forever.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 6: Now that's kind of a common name.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of Bridgers in the Shoshone.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 6: Well, just in public anywhere, even off the reservation.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Because around here everybody's you get kids. They people named
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: their kids their first names Bridger. You guys got people
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: whose last.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 6: Name was and then and when river uh uh. Riverton
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 6: area is one of the bigger Ronnie Boos sites that
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 6: ever used to happen, and so we used to have
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 6: a lot of Ronnie Boos there and now it was
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 6: a Shoshonies rapples Cheyenne, So everybody used to come there
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: for rendezvous. And so trapping was pretty big in the area.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 6: And I grew I remember growing up trapping weaver bobcats,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 6: everything else. You know, growing up, we didn't have cell
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 6: phones or anything else to do back in the day.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: Are there many tribal fur trappers left.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 6: No, it's really decreasing. It's sad to see. I mean,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 6: it's something that a lot of us grew up seeing
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 6: and stuff. And as you see the generations of people leaving,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 6: it's it's kind of declining pretty fast.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 6: What you said?
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 8: There is an interest from in hunting from the younger members.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're definitely a big interest. Well, we we're
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 6: doing a lot of work, So I got I hired
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: a youth coordinator to go in and make efforts and
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 6: to get into the youth involved. And so we teamed
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 6: up with a nonprofit to help sponsor fly fishing and
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 6: any different fishing events or we put on huge classes,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 6: and so we just wanted to get involve the youth
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 6: some way, somehow, to protect to have a passion for
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 6: the outdoors and our natural resources. You know, we're just
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 6: trying to prepare for the future so when we're all gone,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 6: that somebody comes and takes our place and then all
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 6: the tools they need to succeed.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 7: Is already there and they care about the place.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean you do not. You're not gonna be
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 6: in charge of your natural resources and do a good
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 6: job if you don't care for it.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 5: You know, how are predators managed, coyotes, etcetera.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 6: There's no I mean, we have a wolf season. There's
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 6: no nothing on coyote or mountain lions or anything else.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 6: We have a black bear season, but still, I mean,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 6: we might get a handful of black bears harvested every year.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: How many how many wolves does anybody getting after? Do
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: you got any guys that like to hunt wolves?
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 6: A lot of guys that like to hunt wolves. The
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 6: harvest one doesn't happen.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: Sounds like you don't have a high harvest rate. Did
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: you have first?
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 6: We've never had one harvester during our seasons.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: Wow, how long is your season?
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 6: It's uh January till February.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: Do you know if guys that try calling, Oh yeah.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 6: They try to everything. The unique thing about the I
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 6: mean we don't when you go to different areas and
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 6: you see different areas the wolf population is just blowing up.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 6: It's grown. You know, our is not really blowing up
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 6: or going getting out of control. Even though we have
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 6: less pressure on wildlife and hunting and everything else and
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 6: uh big herds of wild game, elk, mile deer, unlimited
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 6: white tail. We just don't have that population growth on
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 6: and around the reservation. And so when we deal with
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 6: grizzly bears and stuff, we know the population is growing.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 6: We see them all the time. We see them on
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 6: every child camera, we see mountains on every child cameras.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 6: But we do not have the issues that the state
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 6: does just on the other side of that boundary, on
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 6: the other side of that creek.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: How many grizzlies do you guys think you have at
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: any given time.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 6: It's so hard to determine. I mean it, I'm seeing
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 6: them more and more every year and places we've never
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 6: seen them before.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: It's closer to ten or closer to one hundred.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm closer to fifty.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: That splits the middle of it. So maybe about fifty.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: And here's the crazy thing. If you guys wanted to
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: and you had to try, you could. I mean, there's
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: nothing legally preventing a tribal member from hunting a grizzly
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: right because the Dangered Species Act wouldn't legally restrict you.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 6: That that does still cover uh, eagles and migration migrating
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 6: birds and is covered under.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: Also EESA that in Dangerous Species Act does apply to
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: tribal lands. Yes, huh does that ever create a pain
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: point for you guys for management or is it not
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: an issue?
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 6: Not an issue?
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: I had no idea.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, there's well it would actually be to that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 6: point where it is an issue where we might have
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 6: the population double one and issue attacks and stuff. But
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 6: I don't even think we have one record attack on
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 6: the reservation with human and grizzly bears.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: How about how about livestock loss? A few not a
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: huge problem.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 6: Well, it's so hard to determine what killed livestock. Is
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 6: it a wolf? Was it a lion? Because you know
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 6: what birds I come in and take over and eat
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 6: on it anyway.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can't go by who's standing there when
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: you get there. Yeah, this is going to be a bear.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, you know. I mean if you ever watched
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 6: wolves and stuff, sometimes they just kill for fun. They
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 6: don't kill to eat and to manage a herd or anything.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 6: They just kill for fun. You know. We we've watched
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 6: them take down elk and mildeer and just leave them
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 6: and then the kylets and wolves bears will come in
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 6: and finish, you know, eating the animal, eating on the carcus.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: We do a podcast. We do limited releases of a
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: podcast for kids, and in it, in one of the
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: sections we kind of explain different history or biology things.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: I was making a list of stuff for upcoming episodes
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: with Krinn the other day of thought about but did
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: not include, and now I might put it on. There
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: is the surplus killing. When predators go a little gangbusters,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: they get a little carried away, not in their mind,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: but in our minds. To get a little carried away,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know what's in their mind.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: That's all subjective in their minds, appropriate amount of to
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: kill in their mind.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: This is what I do.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we spend a lot of time with the youth
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 6: with gun safety, ethics about a hunter safety survival just
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 6: and we take we take travel youth hunting game one.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 6: We'll go out with them and we'll go out and
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 6: try to harvest some milk and stuff like that. But
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 6: we spend a majority of our time with ethics and
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 6: gun safety and so you know, with the fishing, we
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 6: bring in trotting a classroom, we take them ice fishing
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 6: just and stuff. Oh yeah, we do a lot. We
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 6: ended up taking fifty trouble youth to an ice fishing
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 6: event reservoir one of the big areas where we removed
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 6: feral horses and on the way up all we've seen
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 6: was mule deer or herd elk and then on top
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 6: of the big herd of sheep and all the kids
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 6: are out there kitchen and ice fishing, kitchen cutthroats all
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 6: day long. Yeah, that's great.
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how many kids you think are participating in your
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: program right now?
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 6: I bet because we're in every tribal school and there's
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 6: four tribal schools out there, and we're trying to reach
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 6: out to the surrounding state schools that have house trible
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 6: youth and them, well, we're probably working with around three
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 6: four hundred kids, yep. And so with that success, we
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 6: decided to start up a female tribal female program too,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 6: And so we're doing anything with tribal females. Yeah, we
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 6: get them outdoors hiking of any age, any age, and
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 6: any tribe will take on any tribal female to come
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 6: on and join us.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: That's great, man, it's really cool with the kid program
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: that you can see that you would be able to grow.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, because you guys got a good resource, you
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: got a good management strategy. The landscape is getting better
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: with the absence of horses that you'd get that you'd
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: have more and more tribal kids get introduced to going hunting.
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 6: You know, we got trouble youth making their own YouTube
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 6: videos and stuff. Kids outdoors and they're starting their own
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 6: fly fishing clubs, their own fishing clubs and stuff like that. Yeah. No,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 6: it's it's it's going really good.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: That's awesome. Congratulations.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 6: Thanks.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, we can talk about more, but I don't know,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: I would love to see some of that. I mean
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: just hang out and check it outll be cool.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm gonna we put everything on social media
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 6: on our stu's showing rapp with Trouble Youth page and.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: Okay there is a place. Yeah yeah, and then good
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: luck with the Buffalo program. That sounds exciting.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we are. We're all excited about it. I mean,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 6: I'm sure there's a few livestock producers worried about and stuff,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: but is that right? Yeah, with trouble fishing game, broken interference,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 6: we plan on making it work for both ends, you know,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: I think I think we can sustain and both the.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you have a you have some producers that
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: are worried about the loss of grazing lands, Yeah, got it.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: How will how will the conflict like that resolve?
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 6: Either the Buffalo program will come in and you know,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 6: pay more for those leases and stuff and then start
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 6: managing them better. But that's one of the issues that
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 6: we're working on now, is how how to compensate for
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 6: those producers lost.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: When when you mentioned that you would do it through
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: the tribal council, can you quickly lay out what that means.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 6: So there's Eastern Shoshoni, Northern rap Pole they have their
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 6: own different programs, tribes operations they have to manage every
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 6: day on a day to day basis, and then they
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: have to come together a few times out of the
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 6: month to manage law and order codes, tribal fishing game.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 6: What else is there? Just like three other different programs
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 6: that they transportation and stuff that they have to manage together.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 6: And so it's a joint effort for both tribes to
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 6: work on to manage a lot of the natural resources
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 6: on the reservation.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been a console member?
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 6: That is that like at Hot Hot I mean it's
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 6: a politician job. This job I have is a politician job,
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 6: and I've only wanted to be a game warden. That
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 6: was the highlight of my career. It was, you know,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 6: you'd wake up and I got two million acres? Where
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 6: do I want to go today? And you go seem
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 6: with some of the best natural resources in the lower
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 6: forty eight.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I forgot to ask you about that earlier
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: when you were a game when you were doing work
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: as a game warden, what would be a common like
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: I don't imagine because you guys have allocations and game allocations,
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: you're probably not out busting tribal poachers, right few, Yeah,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: there's something be an example.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: Of that hunting outside of the regulation time.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: Oh I see, So even though you've got a good
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: elk allocation, you're not you're out hunting in the summer.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 6: Right Yeah. All that and then overharvesting bulls. I mean,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 6: you know, we got phenomenal trophy animals and so you
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 6: know you already punched your tag while you punched another one,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 6: are trying to get another one?
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: Or waste?
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah? Waste? You know, you just take the antlers and
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 6: not the meat and stuff, and you know it happens everywhere.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: The same old stuff as anywhere.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, did you get.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 8: When you were were a game warden, did you guys
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 8: have like a constant kind of working relationship with the
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 8: wyoming game wardens that kind of surround the work the
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 8: surrounding area, like if things were going on like near
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 8: the border, like people were where they weren't supposed to
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 8: be where you like, do you have guys you'd call up.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 7: Like you had a working relationship with them?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean we're all on the same if
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 6: you're not anything aout law enperson, I kind of worked
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 6: together as a team and then a lot of us
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 6: like me and the other wardens are from Bia, were
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 6: open interfairs police officers, and so not only with the
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 6: state wardens and everybody else, but with the FBI, Pemmut
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 6: County sheriffs, you know, land of Police, Proton police, and
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 6: everybody else. And so it's kind of good to have
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 6: that network and a small popular area like that, so
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 6: we can communicate and eliminate a lot of these big problems.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: So if you're when you're if you're a tribal member
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: and you're for you're fulfilling the role of a game
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: warden on reservation land, and you catch a tribal member
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: in violation, is it the same old thing? Liked be like,
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: depending on the severity of the crime, there's a financial fine,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: there's like a loss of privileges. Like does the sort
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: of toolkit of enforcement look similar.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's that's well, we have criminal jurisdiction over
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 6: tribal members, any tribal member, any recognized tribal member in
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 6: the United States, and so we can prosecute through able court.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 6: And then we have have taken hunting rights away for
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 6: five years we've had you know, it's a lot of
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 6: the same. I guess we didn't really invent the will,
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 6: but we kind of mirrored off of what the state
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 6: was doing.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: Like you can confiscate equipment, like all the kind of yep,
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: normal things that would happen if you do something real bad.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Is there anything I didn't ask about that you
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: wish we would have asked about?
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 6: Not really?
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, is there anything I asked about you wish
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: I hadn't asked.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 3: You?
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 4: Or no?
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 6: I mean, if there's anything else you know. Uh, there's
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 6: a lot of information out there that people don't know
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 6: about reservations, and in particular Wind River Reservation and stuff.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: And I think I'm speaking for a lot of people
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: when I say that, myself included. I don't know shit
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: about reservations, right. You know, they're over there, they're over there,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: you're driving along. This is all.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 6: Well, and a lot of it too, is a lot
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 6: of bad press. What you see on reservations. We don't
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 6: get a lot of good press of some of the
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 6: success that we're we are having and what we are doing.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 6: I can tell you one thing, the success of removing
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 6: fur horses has gone pretty big in the state of Wyhoming.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 6: A lot of non native support of what we're what
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 6: we're doing, and a lot of conservation efforts and and
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 6: and giving out information to everybody but any other states
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 6: and other tribal programs, other state programs, other agencies and
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 6: stuff to see the results of the comeback of natural
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 6: resources from removing for horses. That's one of the best
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 6: positive feedbacks I've ever got working for the tribes.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'd like to give you more positive feedback
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: on the youth uh programs. That's exciting.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and we just wanted to grow and get bigger.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, And again, good luck on the buffalo thing.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, come down anytime. We're only six hours away.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: Come look around, visit. But you can get.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 5: That's a different thing.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 6: That's all protected.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 5: I was.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: I was recently down at Zooni Pueblo in New Mexico,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: and I went out with those guys and uh, you know,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: they were out hunting and yeah, they're like, not even
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: a rabbit, buddy.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 3: Sorry. I don't get to hunt there either. I've lived
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 3: there most of my life. I don't get to hunt
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: there either.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: That right, Oh wow, yeah, oh really you can't get
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: her past you guys are married.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 3: I can go with him. There's a spousal permit that
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 3: I can be on the mountain with him and stuff,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: but I can't hunt. Yeah, huh.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 6: Me and the kids are en ropes. We don't let
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 6: her shoot anyway.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 3: I just help them pack out their meat. That's what
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: I'm there for. And then they have to get me
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: to go, because all do you guys want me to
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 3: do is pack up meat.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: Do you guys eat a lot of wild game?
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 3: That's all we eat?
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: No beef. We don't know rais any beef.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: We don't raise any beef. I come from a strong
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: family of cattle ranchers and stuff. But at once I
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: married him. That's all we've ever eaten and stuff. We
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 3: have a freezer full of elk, and I'll buy I'll
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: buy chicken occasionally.
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 9: You know.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: That's a conversation household to my kids will be like
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: my chicken?
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 3: Did you see that? More?
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: Man? We want to thank both. If you're coming on,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: this has been real educational. I appreciate it.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 6: Thank you, thanks for having us.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.