Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Motive Question (9/6/26)

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Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Motive Question (9/6/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. As
0:03
Speaker 1: the Brian Koberger investigation was unfolding, one of the main
0:07
Speaker 1: questions that we had here on the podcast was how
0:10
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger ever met any of these girls. And once
0:15
Speaker 1: we found out about Maddie Mogan and her working at
0:18
Speaker 1: the Mad Greek and what People Magazine had said about
0:22
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger going to the Mad Greek, I've always thought
0:25
Speaker 1: that that's where Brian Koberger had his first contact with
0:28
Speaker 1: Maddie Mogan. And I think from there, that's where things
0:31
Speaker 1: spiraled out of control. Now that Mad Greek restaurant is
0:35
Speaker 1: no longer open up there in Idaho, by the way.
0:38
Speaker 1: And when this was all first going down, there was
0:40
Speaker 1: a lot of people, including the owners from that Mad
0:43
Speaker 1: Greek restaurant, who denied the reports that Brian Kohlberger had
0:47
Speaker 1: ever been there. But I had people reach out to me,
0:50
Speaker 1: people who had worked there, saying that that wasn't the case,
0:53
Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger had been in there multiple times. Well,
0:57
Speaker 1: now there's a new book coming out by James Patterson.
1:01
Speaker 1: And in this book that was released on Monday, they're
1:04
Speaker 1: going down that same road. And according to the author,
1:07
Speaker 1: James Patterson, the most likely introduction Brian Koberger had to
1:11
Speaker 1: any of these girls or victims was at that restaurant.
1:15
Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to dive into an
1:17
Speaker 1: article from ABC News and talk a little bit more
1:21
Speaker 1: about Brian Koberger, this new book, and the Mad Greek. Headline,
1:27
Speaker 1: new book on University of Idaho murders sheds light on
1:30
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger's potential motive. This article was authored by Kena
1:37
Speaker 1: Whitworth and Emily Shapiro. A new book on the University
1:41
Speaker 1: of Idaho murders attempts to lift the veil on the
1:44
Speaker 1: secrecy that shrouded the case, revealing what those closest to
1:48
Speaker 1: the students believe was the motive behind the admitted killer
1:51
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger's brutal crimes. And remember, today there is a
1:55
Speaker 1: hearing about the gag order. So we'll know a lot
1:58
Speaker 1: more about if the gag order is going to be
2:00
Speaker 1: lifted anytime soon or not. And at this point, with
2:03
Speaker 1: sentencing being the only thing left, it's time to go.
2:07
Speaker 1: That gag order has to be dropped. And I thought
2:10
Speaker 1: that that gag order was way restrictive from the very beginning.
2:13
Speaker 1: And I still think so now. Look, I understand why
2:16
Speaker 1: they needed it, why they used it, but I don't
2:18
Speaker 1: like it. And I think they went too far with it.
2:22
Speaker 1: And them using that gag order in the manner they
2:24
Speaker 1: did created a bunch of fertile ground for a bunch
2:27
Speaker 1: of morons to come up with a bunch of bullshit.
2:29
Speaker 1: And as we all know, that's exactly what they did.
2:33
Speaker 1: Best-selling author James Patterson and investigative reporter Vicki Ward teamed
2:38
Speaker 1: up for a new book release on Monday, The Idaho 4,
2:41
Speaker 1: An American Tragedy. The book not only poses a potential motive,
2:45
Speaker 1: but also sheds light on Kohlberger's life before the killings
2:49
Speaker 1: and follows multiple points of view of the timeline of
2:52
Speaker 1: the crime that sent shockwaves through Moscow and skyrocketed to
2:57
Speaker 1: national attention. And I remember waking up the day after,
3:00
Speaker 1: and I looked at my girlfriend and I said, this
3:02
Speaker 1: story is going to be huge. This is going to
3:05
Speaker 1: be a gigantic story, especially considering the circumstances in which
3:10
Speaker 1: this went down. We have this little sleepy college town.
3:13
Speaker 1: We have four college kids just sleeping in their house.
3:16
Speaker 1: They get murdered for no reason. Yeah, that's going to
3:19
Speaker 1: be a huge story. Well, I had no idea just
3:22
Speaker 1: how huge it was going to become. For people who
3:26
Speaker 1: have followed this story, we wanted to give them closure,
3:29
Speaker 1: Patterson told ABC News. What he really means is he
3:32
Speaker 1: wanted to make some money, but that's cool. We'll take
3:34
Speaker 1: some closure. Roommates Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, and Zanna Kernodel,
3:39
Speaker 1: and Kernodel's boyfriend Ethan Chapin, were all stabbed to death
3:42
Speaker 1: at the girls' off-campus house in the early hours of
3:46
Speaker 1: November 13, 2022. Patterson and Ward conducted over 300 interviews
3:52
Speaker 1: with people who have ties to the case, including family
3:55
Speaker 1: and friends who believe Mogan was the target. And I've
3:58
Speaker 1: said that now for a while. At first I thought
4:01
Speaker 1: it was Kaylee, and that's because we were hearing the
4:03
Speaker 1: reports about the damage that was done to Kaylee's body
4:07
Speaker 1: by the killer. But it turns out that it was
4:11
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan. At least that's what it looks like. And
4:15
Speaker 1: the rage that we saw with Kaylee... was Brian Koberger,
4:18
Speaker 1: bitch ass Brian Koberger, taking out his anger that Kaylee
4:22
Speaker 1: ruined his time with Maddie. He didn't expect Kaylee to
4:25
Speaker 1: be there. He thought it was going to be Maddie alone.
4:27
Speaker 1: He was going to be able to have whatever fucked
4:29
Speaker 1: up disgusting fantasy played out. But that wasn't the case.
4:34
Speaker 1: Kaylee happened to be there and it threw Brian Koberger's
4:37
Speaker 1: plan into chaos. And that's why you see the overkill
4:41
Speaker 1: when it comes to Kaylee. That also led, by the way,
4:44
Speaker 1: to Zanna and Ethan being murdered. Because if it was
4:47
Speaker 1: just Maddie, if she was there by herself, Kohlberger would
4:50
Speaker 1: have did what he did and he would have crept out.
4:53
Speaker 1: There would have been no FBI, no gigantic investigation like
4:56
Speaker 1: we saw, and he probably would have got away with it.
5:00
Speaker 1: The problem for Kohlberger was that he wasn't expecting Kaylee there,
5:04
Speaker 1: and when he saw her there and the fight ensued,
5:07
Speaker 1: things went south. but I think one of the biggest
5:09
Speaker 1: tells when we're talking about the crime scene and the
5:12
Speaker 1: state of the body is that there was overkill with Kaylee,
5:15
Speaker 1: and that leads me to believe that Maddie was the target.
5:19
Speaker 1: There was consensus that it was Maddie that Kohlberger was
5:21
Speaker 1: going for, and the victim's families, I think, would all
5:24
Speaker 1: agree with that, Ward said, and I think that's probably
5:27
Speaker 1: the consensus with anybody who's followed the case at this point,
5:30
Speaker 1: that Maddie Mogan was the target of Brian Kohlberger. But obviously,
5:35
Speaker 1: it's still speculation that We don't have confirmation one way
5:38
Speaker 1: or the other, but the evidence certainly points us in
5:41
Speaker 1: that direction. A Moscow police alleged Kohlberger's cell phone records
5:46
Speaker 1: show his phone appeared to be close to the victim's
5:49
Speaker 1: house on at least 12 occasions between August and the
5:52
Speaker 1: night of the murders, almost always late at night. Yeah,
5:56
Speaker 1: because he was casing the joint. If you listen to
5:58
Speaker 1: my episodes from early on, I basically called all of this.
6:03
Speaker 1: This is what I said he was doing. Bro was
6:05
Speaker 1: casing the joint, was making sure that he had the right,
6:08
Speaker 1: you know, pathway, had the right house, knew their movements,
6:12
Speaker 1: knew what time they were going to be awake, what
6:13
Speaker 1: their habits were. That's what he was doing. And it
6:17
Speaker 1: reminded me of the shit that Francis Dollarhide was up
6:20
Speaker 1: to in the book Red Dragon. If you've ever read
6:24
Speaker 1: the book or saw the movie Red Dragon, you know
6:26
Speaker 1: that he would go and, you know, stake out these houses.
6:29
Speaker 1: He'd sit out there for hours on end, watching the families.
6:33
Speaker 1: And that's what Brian Koberger was doing when it comes
6:36
Speaker 1: to King Road. And I think that was relatively obvious
6:39
Speaker 1: from the beginning. And the reason he was always there
6:42
Speaker 1: late at night is because that's when he planned to
6:44
Speaker 1: commit his crime late at night. So he's going to
6:47
Speaker 1: go and make sure the whole scenario is right. Make
6:50
Speaker 1: sure the situation is acceptable. That way, when the time
6:54
Speaker 1: comes to carry out his disgusting ass bitch made attack,
6:57
Speaker 1: he has all his ducks in a row. The book
7:00
Speaker 1: described what it calls a recurring nightmare the victim friend,
7:03
Speaker 1: Emily Allent, had after the murders. Allent said she imagined
7:08
Speaker 1: that the now-admitted killer went to the restaurant where Mogan worked,
7:11
Speaker 1: expressed romantic interest in her, and was rejected, prompting him
7:16
Speaker 1: to retaliate. When the friends are told that the guy
7:19
Speaker 1: who murdered their friend is this guy, Brian Koberger, they
7:22
Speaker 1: don't recognize his photo. They can't put it together, Ward said.
7:26
Speaker 1: That's when Emily said, The only explanation that she and
7:30
Speaker 1: her boyfriend Hunter Johnson could come up with is the
7:33
Speaker 1: story that we tell as the story of her dream
7:36
Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger targeted Maddie and that he doesn't know
7:39
Speaker 1: the exact details, but that's her best guess. And yeah,
7:43
Speaker 1: I think that that's a great guess. I truly believe
7:45
Speaker 1: that Maddie was the target for all the reasons we discussed.
7:48
Speaker 1: But with that said, I surely remain open to any
7:51
Speaker 1: kind of evidence or any kind of information that leads
7:54
Speaker 1: us somewhere else. But as of right now, I don't
7:57
Speaker 1: think we've seen anything that would lead us to believe
7:59
Speaker 1: that anybody else was the target besides Maddie. And I
8:03
Speaker 1: think one of the tells is, where did he go
8:05
Speaker 1: right away? Right to Maddie's room. And if he was
8:08
Speaker 1: taking the house out, then he most assuredly knew where
8:12
Speaker 1: Maddie's room was, what Maddie was up to. And according
8:15
Speaker 1: to reports, one of the places where they think Brian
8:18
Speaker 1: Koberger was watching the house from, he had a direct
8:21
Speaker 1: line into Maddie's window. So I think that the evidence
8:24
Speaker 1: is overwhelming that Maddie was the target and but we
8:27
Speaker 1: just don't have that confirmation from any authorities yet. So,
8:30
Speaker 1: of course, it's all still speculation. Prosecutors said Mogan was
8:35
Speaker 1: the first of the four killed. A knife sheath with
8:38
Speaker 1: Koberger's DNA was found under her body, officials said. The
8:41
Speaker 1: book also delves into Koberger's life as a criminology PhD
8:46
Speaker 1: student at nearby Washington State University at the time of
8:49
Speaker 1: the killings. Koberger, the criminologist, had such training for this,
8:54
Speaker 1: and he almost committed the perfect crime, Patterson said. Had
8:57
Speaker 1: he not left the knife sheath, he probably wouldn't have
9:00
Speaker 1: got caught. And that's the truth. This dirty rotten son
9:03
Speaker 1: of a bitch thought he was just going to kill Maddie,
9:05
Speaker 1: and he would have got away with it. And we
9:07
Speaker 1: all know he would have went and killed somebody else.
9:09
Speaker 1: But knowing what we know, if he didn't leave that sheath,
9:13
Speaker 1: bro would have got away with it. And that's terrifying
9:15
Speaker 1: to think about. In the wake of the shocking crime
9:18
Speaker 1: as police searched for a suspect, one of the key
9:21
Speaker 1: sources of information was a surviving roommate, Dylan, who told friends,
9:25
Speaker 1: including Alant, what she saw on the night of the murders.
9:29
Speaker 1: It was really through Emily that we learned of what
9:31
Speaker 1: sort of roommate Dylan had gone through, Ward said. It
9:35
Speaker 1: sounded so surreal to them all because she said he
9:38
Speaker 1: had a black mask and he looked like he was
9:40
Speaker 1: carrying a black vacuum. And they're sitting there thinking, who
9:43
Speaker 1: could this be? And what on earth has happened? And
9:47
Speaker 1: we got a lot of questions answered as far as
9:49
Speaker 1: the motivation of the 911 call and when it was
9:52
Speaker 1: made and why somebody said that there were unconscious people there.
9:56
Speaker 1: So in that new documentary that's on Amazon. the Idaho documentary,
10:02
Speaker 1: it goes into the details of the kids who actually
10:05
Speaker 1: came to the house and made the phone call and
10:07
Speaker 1: it gives you more context. So if you get a chance,
10:10
Speaker 1: I would say watch that documentary. It doesn't really add
10:13
Speaker 1: too much, but you get to hear from people who
10:16
Speaker 1: were actually there and from the kids who made the
10:18
Speaker 1: phone call. And that was the context that we were
10:20
Speaker 1: missing for all these years. Kohlberger was arrested nearly seven
10:26
Speaker 1: weeks after the murders. After maintaining his innocence for more
10:30
Speaker 1: than two years, on July 2nd, Kohlberger admitted to the
10:33
Speaker 1: quadruple killings in court and pleaded guilty to all counts.
10:37
Speaker 1: He'll be sentenced to four consecutive life sentences on the
10:40
Speaker 1: four first-degree murder counts and the maximum penalty of 10
10:44
Speaker 1: years on the burglary count. Now as families prepare for
10:48
Speaker 1: next week's sentencing hearing on July 23rd, Patterson and Ward
10:52
Speaker 1: are hoping to give readers a true sense of the
10:54
Speaker 1: four victims. You will meet Ethan and Kaylee and Maddie
10:58
Speaker 1: and Zanna, Patterson added. You will meet them and you
11:01
Speaker 1: will feel them as human beings. And that's great, that's
11:05
Speaker 1: what it should be on. Once this son of a
11:07
Speaker 1: bitch Brian Kohlberger is sentenced, we should forget about his
11:10
Speaker 1: bitch ass and never even think about him again. Unless
11:14
Speaker 1: there's a helicopter ride coming, and if there is... I
11:17
Speaker 1: want to do the pushing. I spoke to Stacey Chapin,
11:20
Speaker 1: Ethan's mom, and she did say, which was wonderful to hear,
11:24
Speaker 1: that she's so glad that this book exists because it
11:26
Speaker 1: means that they're not forgotten, Ward said. It's a tribute
11:30
Speaker 1: to them and their lives. And that's awesome to hear.
11:33
Speaker 1: Because it should be about the victims. From here on out,
11:36
Speaker 1: that's what it should be about. About Maddie. About Zanna.
11:40
Speaker 1: About Ethan. About Kaylee. And fuck this piece of shit
11:43
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger. I mean, I'm sure everybody wants to take
11:46
Speaker 1: this guy apart piece by piece. So as far as
11:49
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, once we get as much information as we
11:52
Speaker 1: can get out of him, then his bitch ass should
11:55
Speaker 1: be locked under the prison and never heard from ever again.
12:00
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
12:02
Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up everyone and
12:06
Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. One of the questions that
12:11
Speaker 1: everybody still has as far as these murders go, surrounds
12:16
Speaker 1: the motive. What was the motive that Brian Koberger would have,
12:21
Speaker 1: according to authorities, to kill these four college students while
12:26
Speaker 1: they were in their beds? And that has been a
12:28
Speaker 1: big mystery since this all started. Everybody has been asking
12:32
Speaker 1: that question. Why would he do this? And why would
12:35
Speaker 1: he target these kids specifically? And when it comes to
12:40
Speaker 1: murder cases... and it comes to trials, a lot of
12:44
Speaker 1: times on TV, you'll hear them talk about, well, you
12:47
Speaker 1: have to have a motive to make an arrest. That's
12:50
Speaker 1: not the case. You don't need a motive to get
12:53
Speaker 1: a conviction in court. If all of the other evidence
12:56
Speaker 1: is pointing at somebody, motive is not needed to secure
13:00
Speaker 1: that conviction. Now, of course, it helps make your argument
13:03
Speaker 1: as prosecutors when you can point to a reason why
13:07
Speaker 1: somebody would commit crimes like this. certainly bolsters your argument.
13:12
Speaker 1: But sometimes there are just sick, degenerate people out there
13:16
Speaker 1: like Mr. Koberger, it would seem, who don't have any
13:19
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason that goes with their madness. And who
13:24
Speaker 1: knows what it's going to end up being here. But
13:26
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be shocked if we find out that there
13:29
Speaker 1: is no motive whatsoever besides this guy's own degenerate thoughts.
13:35
Speaker 1: But as far as motive needed for a conviction, it
13:39
Speaker 1: is not necessary. Just like the murder weapon is not
13:42
Speaker 1: necessary either. So today we have an article from Newsweek.
13:47
Speaker 1: And in this article, we get the opinion on all
13:49
Speaker 1: of this of Bobby Chacon, an ex-FBI agent. So let's
13:55
Speaker 1: dive into the article. Headline, why Brian Koberger's motive is
13:59
Speaker 1: not important for conviction. Ex-FBI agent. This article was authored
14:05
Speaker 1: by Kalita Rockman. The motive of the suspected killer of
14:10
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students is not important for securing
14:15
Speaker 1: a conviction, according to a retired FBI agent. And it's not.
14:20
Speaker 1: I know that there's that myth out there, like I
14:22
Speaker 1: said in the opening, but you really don't need that
14:24
Speaker 1: motive if you have all of that other evidence. Now,
14:27
Speaker 1: if you have no other evidence... And you just say, hey, look,
14:29
Speaker 1: this person killed so-and-so. Well, you're going to have to
14:32
Speaker 1: prove that, right? You're going to have to provide evidence
14:35
Speaker 1: and build your case, all of that stuff. But we've
14:38
Speaker 1: already seen the probable cause here. We've seen what the
14:41
Speaker 1: police have compiled so far. And it's damning as hell.
14:45
Speaker 1: You don't need a motive. Not when you have all
14:47
Speaker 1: of the other evidence that they have compiled so far.
14:50
Speaker 1: And that's just what we know of. Can you imagine
14:53
Speaker 1: what they're cooking up behind the scenes? Brian Koberger, 28,
14:58
Speaker 1: is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one
15:00
Speaker 1: count of felony burglary in connection with the slayings of
15:03
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. A
15:09
Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit, unsealed on Thursday, revealed investigators used DNA evidence,
15:15
Speaker 1: surveillance footage, and cell phone records to connect Koberger to
15:19
Speaker 1: the crime. He was arrested at his parents' home in
15:23
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania on December 30th and returned to Idaho to face charges.
15:28
Speaker 1: So it's not like they swooped them up on some
15:30
Speaker 1: flimsy charges here or on some flimsy evidence. Very strong evidence.
15:35
Speaker 1: Strong enough that the judge didn't offer bail. Strong enough
15:40
Speaker 1: that that probable cause warrant was signed pretty damn quick.
15:44
Speaker 1: And if it continues on this path, Brian Koberger's cooked, folks.
15:49
Speaker 1: I haven't seen one thing yet that would lead me
15:51
Speaker 1: to believe that he isn't the man that the authorities
15:54
Speaker 1: say he is. Obviously, he is more than entitled to
15:57
Speaker 1: his due process, but from my spot over here in
16:00
Speaker 1: the peanut gallery, old boy looks as guilty as anybody
16:04
Speaker 1: I have ever seen. But one aspect of the case
16:08
Speaker 1: that the affidavit did not shed any light on was
16:11
Speaker 1: the motive for the killings. Bobby Chacon, a retired FBI agent,
16:16
Speaker 1: said he believes investigators are gathering evidence that may shed
16:20
Speaker 1: light on Koberger's motive. And I'm pretty sure that they're
16:23
Speaker 1: doing that as well. They have to rebuild everything that
16:26
Speaker 1: he did online. They have to rebuild everywhere he went.
16:30
Speaker 1: And it's not an easy process. But once you have
16:33
Speaker 1: somebody in your crosshairs the way the FBI and the
16:36
Speaker 1: investigators do here, it's a whole hell of a lot
16:39
Speaker 1: easier to build a profile on them and a working profile.
16:44
Speaker 1: of what they were up to, where they were going,
16:47
Speaker 1: who they were hanging out with, what sort of establishments
16:49
Speaker 1: they were at, all of that, because it's all going
16:52
Speaker 1: to come into play. They have to figure out how
16:55
Speaker 1: Koberger got these girls on his radar to begin with.
16:59
Speaker 1: And that seems to be the mystery right now that
17:02
Speaker 1: nobody can figure out. How did he even know about
17:05
Speaker 1: these girls? Where did he find them? Where did he
17:07
Speaker 1: come across them? I've said for quite some time now
17:11
Speaker 1: that I believe it was probably at the Mad Greek restaurant,
17:16
Speaker 1: considering all of the other factors, but it could have
17:18
Speaker 1: been anywhere else too. A coffee shop, a supermarket, at
17:23
Speaker 1: the movies. We just don't know. I think they've got
17:28
Speaker 1: an idea of the motive and they're looking for more
17:31
Speaker 1: evidence of that motive. He told News Nation's Brian Enten
17:35
Speaker 1: on Sunday. But it's not necessary to determine what the
17:38
Speaker 1: motive was to secure a murder conviction, Chacon said. And
17:42
Speaker 1: that's a fact. I know there's a lot of folks
17:44
Speaker 1: out there that think, you know, you need a motive.
17:47
Speaker 1: You need a weapon. You need a body. And while
17:51
Speaker 1: all of that stuff does make the prosecution's job a
17:54
Speaker 1: lot easier, it is not necessary or required to get
17:59
Speaker 1: a conviction. As an investigator, motive was the least important
18:04
Speaker 1: thing I did, because most murder statutes, you don't need
18:07
Speaker 1: to prove why somebody does it. My main thrust as
18:10
Speaker 1: an investigator was, who did this crime, and how do
18:14
Speaker 1: I prove it? How do I help the prosecution get
18:16
Speaker 1: a conviction, he said, and that's really what it comes
18:19
Speaker 1: down to. I don't need to prove motive if I
18:22
Speaker 1: can prove that you murdered somebody. All I need to
18:25
Speaker 1: prove is that you murdered them. The why of it
18:29
Speaker 1: was always the least important of it for me, unless
18:31
Speaker 1: it led to other things in the investigation, unless it
18:35
Speaker 1: is the blunt defense motion, a defense assertion that it was,
18:39
Speaker 1: you know, self-defense or something like that. And we know
18:42
Speaker 1: that's not the case here. There's zero chance Brian Koberger
18:46
Speaker 1: is going to be trying to use a self-defense case
18:49
Speaker 1: when he's in somebody else's home there to commit murder.
18:52
Speaker 1: So again, the motive is really not something that is
18:55
Speaker 1: needed as far as prosecution goes, but it's certainly something
19:00
Speaker 1: that all of us would like to know. Obviously, everybody
19:04
Speaker 1: wants to wrap their mind around why somebody would do
19:07
Speaker 1: something like this. And even if it's something that we
19:10
Speaker 1: can't understand and something that doesn't correlate with regular thinking people,
19:16
Speaker 1: I think everybody wants to know what would motivate Brian
19:19
Speaker 1: Kohlberger to do some shit like this. Before students were
19:24
Speaker 1: found dead in an off-campus rental house in in Moscow, Idaho,
19:28
Speaker 1: on November 13th. Gonsalves, Mogan, and Kernodle lived there with
19:32
Speaker 1: two roommates who were not harmed. Chapin was visiting Kernodle,
19:36
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. Following the murders, weeks went by without an arrest,
19:42
Speaker 1: and police released few details about the investigation, leaving the
19:46
Speaker 1: town on edge. The affidavit revealed that Koberger was on
19:51
Speaker 1: law enforcement's radar by late November and that a warrant
19:54
Speaker 1: for his arrest was requested after DNA taken from the
19:58
Speaker 1: trash outside his parents' home was matched with DNA on
20:01
Speaker 1: a knife sheath recovered at the crime scene. And it's
20:05
Speaker 1: still bananas to me that Mr. Criminal Minds over here, Mr.
20:09
Speaker 1: Mandy Patankin from CSI, is leaving his sheath at the
20:14
Speaker 1: crime scene. What an absolute moron. A Pennsylvania native, Koberger
20:23
Speaker 1: had arrived in Pullman, Washington, just across the state border
20:26
Speaker 1: from Moscow sometime last summer to begin his doctoral studies
20:31
Speaker 1: in criminology at Washington State University. According to the affidavit,
20:36
Speaker 1: cell phone records show his phone was near the area
20:39
Speaker 1: where the murders occurred at least 12 times prior to
20:43
Speaker 1: November 13th. So for the investigators, that establishes a pattern
20:47
Speaker 1: that establishes more probable cause for them to arrest Brian Koberger. Remember,
20:53
Speaker 1: all of that stuff that they were collecting, all that
20:56
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence is what led up to that probable cause
21:00
Speaker 1: warrant being drawn up. Investigators will continue to look into
21:05
Speaker 1: what the motive was because prosecutors always like to tell
21:08
Speaker 1: the jury the story of why this happened, Chacon said.
21:12
Speaker 1: But why certainly is not needed for a conviction. It's
21:15
Speaker 1: not required by the statute. And it's not. But he's
21:19
Speaker 1: not wrong. The jury's going to want to hear what happened.
21:22
Speaker 1: But with all of the other evidence that has been
21:24
Speaker 1: provided just circumstantially, my guess is even without the motive,
21:28
Speaker 1: they're going to paint a very vivid picture for these jurors.
21:33
Speaker 1: Determining motive is always the most nebulous part of a
21:36
Speaker 1: case like this, Chacon added, because quite frankly, there is
21:40
Speaker 1: no rational reason to do this. And when we find
21:43
Speaker 1: out the why, it will be very unsatisfying. Yeah, it
21:47
Speaker 1: usually is. It usually is. But as a family member
21:51
Speaker 1: or a friend of one of the murdered, you always
21:53
Speaker 1: want to know why it happened. So it's going to
21:57
Speaker 1: be important for that portion of this anyway, for them
22:00
Speaker 1: to determine what the motive was. Prosecutors, attorneys, and investigators
22:07
Speaker 1: can no longer talk about the case after Judge Megan
22:09
Speaker 1: Marshall issued a gag order last week prohibiting any of
22:13
Speaker 1: the parties from talking about anything reasonably likely to interfere
22:18
Speaker 1: with a fair trial. But Jason Labar, the public defender
22:22
Speaker 1: who represented Koberger in Pennsylvania, previously said Koberger is eager
22:27
Speaker 1: to be exonerated. Well, I'm eager to hit megabucks or
22:32
Speaker 1: the lottery today. And that's not going to happen anytime soon.
22:35
Speaker 1: So Mr. Kohlberger should probably batten down the hatches and
22:39
Speaker 1: get ready for the long haul. All right, folks, that's
22:43
Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. If you'd like
22:45
Speaker 1: to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com.
22:50
Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find me on
22:58
Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
23:05
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
23:09
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Former FBI agent Jennifer
23:15
Speaker 1: Coffendaffer is offering more opinion on the murders and on
23:20
Speaker 1: what might have driven the person or persons responsible to
23:24
Speaker 1: do this. And the theory that she's talking about is
23:28
Speaker 1: one called femicide. Now, for those of you who have
23:31
Speaker 1: been listening to the podcast, we've talked about this at length,
23:35
Speaker 1: considering what's going on down in Mexico and how there
23:38
Speaker 1: are so many missing women in so many different regions
23:41
Speaker 1: down there and how femicide is a legit big time problem.
23:46
Speaker 1: And even in the Shanquilla Robinson case, the Mexican government,
23:51
Speaker 1: they're rolling with the femicide charges here against the killer
23:55
Speaker 1: of Shanquilla Robinson. So femicide is something you see down
23:58
Speaker 1: in Mexico. It's a law down there. In America, we
24:01
Speaker 1: don't have a femicide statute. So it's not something that is,
24:06
Speaker 1: you know, pursued when somebody is murdered. They don't call
24:10
Speaker 1: it femicide here in America. But in Mexico, it's certainly
24:14
Speaker 1: a much more prevalent charge. So before we dive into
24:17
Speaker 1: this article, I wanted to take a minute and let's
24:21
Speaker 1: talk about what femicide is. And to do that, we're
24:24
Speaker 1: going to use the Wikipedia entry. Femicide, or femicide, is
24:30
Speaker 1: a hate crime which broadly defined as the intentional killing
24:34
Speaker 1: of women or girls because they are female. But definitions
24:38
Speaker 1: of it vary depending on cultural context. In 1976, the
24:42
Speaker 1: feminist author Diana E.H. Russell said, first define the term
24:47
Speaker 1: as the killing of females by males because they are female.
24:50
Speaker 1: Others broaden the meaning of the term by including the
24:53
Speaker 1: killing of females by females. In many Central American countries,
24:57
Speaker 1: where organized crime is a prevalent issue, the term femicide
25:01
Speaker 1: is used in reference to the violent killing of women
25:04
Speaker 1: and girls, which are frequently perpetrated by gang members, a
25:09
Speaker 1: crime which is primarily committed in order to stoke fear
25:12
Speaker 1: and compliance among civilians. Opponents argue that since over 80%
25:19
Speaker 1: of all murder victims are men, the term places too
25:22
Speaker 1: much emphasis on the murder of females. However, a partner
25:26
Speaker 1: is responsible in almost 40% of homicides involving a female
25:30
Speaker 1: victim compared with the 6% of homicides involving a male victim.
25:34
Speaker 1: In addition, femicide may be underreported. An alternative term, gendercide
25:41
Speaker 1: is considered more inclusive. However, some feminists argue that that
25:45
Speaker 1: the term perpetuates the taboo of the murder of females
25:48
Speaker 1: and enables the continual dominance of male structures in society.
25:53
Speaker 1: Feminists also argue that the cause of femicide are often
25:57
Speaker 1: different than those for androcyte. Whereas androcyte is often linked
26:02
Speaker 1: to street violence, much femicide involves domestic violence and forced abortions.
26:08
Speaker 1: Now look, down in a place like Mexico, this is
26:11
Speaker 1: a real big problem. And if you've listened to the
26:14
Speaker 1: podcast for a while, we've talked about people like the
26:17
Speaker 1: Bonnie Escobar. We've talked about people like Ardiana Lopez and
26:23
Speaker 1: the things that they went through as far as their gruesome,
26:27
Speaker 1: brutal murders. And then how the prosecution tried to cover
26:31
Speaker 1: up for that. So down there in Mexico, it is
26:35
Speaker 1: a big thing. But we certainly have our own problems
26:38
Speaker 1: here in America when it comes to violence against women.
26:42
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, In some of those cases, that violence turns
26:46
Speaker 1: into death. So before we dove into this article, I
26:50
Speaker 1: just wanted to talk about femicides real quick, just briefly,
26:53
Speaker 1: so everybody had a base of what it actually meant
26:57
Speaker 1: and what it was when Jennifer Coffendaffer starts discussing it here.
27:01
Speaker 1: So with that said, let's hit this article from Newsweek
27:05
Speaker 1: and let's get caught up. Headline, ex-FBI agent shares femicide
27:09
Speaker 1: theory on Idaho murders. This article was authored by Kalita Rockman.
27:17
Speaker 1: The murder of four University of Idaho students last month
27:20
Speaker 1: may be a case of femicide, according to a former
27:24
Speaker 1: FBI agent. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan
27:29
Speaker 1: Chapin were found dead in an off-campus rental house on
27:33
Speaker 1: November 13th. The women lived at the house with two
27:36
Speaker 1: other female roommates who survived the attack while Chapin, Kernodle's boyfriend,
27:41
Speaker 1: was visiting. Christmas Day marked six weeks since the brutal
27:45
Speaker 1: slaying stunned the tiny town of Moscow, where the local
27:48
Speaker 1: police department have yet to identify a suspect or make
27:52
Speaker 1: an arrest. When this story was first breaking, I was
27:56
Speaker 1: convinced that they'd have it wrapped up relatively quickly. I
28:00
Speaker 1: figured the investigators would hit the house, they'd collect some DNA,
28:04
Speaker 1: they'd talk to some of the other people around, and
28:06
Speaker 1: they'd have a suspect. Well, here we are six weeks later,
28:10
Speaker 1: and none of that's occurred. Thanksgiving, come and gone. Now
28:15
Speaker 1: it's Christmas Day and still nothing. No suspects, no people
28:18
Speaker 1: of interest, and no justice yet. Investigators on the case
28:25
Speaker 1: will be looking at everyone associated with each victim, starting
28:28
Speaker 1: with their families and inner circles, said Jennifer Coffendaffer, a
28:32
Speaker 1: former FBI agent. Because it hasn't been solved yet, I
28:36
Speaker 1: believe their past, the inner circles of these individuals, perhaps
28:40
Speaker 1: it is more of a very outlying individual, she told Newsweek.
28:44
Speaker 1: And that's where I'm at right now, too. Obviously, that
28:47
Speaker 1: can evolve as we get more information and more context.
28:51
Speaker 1: But the longer this goes without somebody being caught or
28:55
Speaker 1: a real strong suspect being pointed at, the more I'm
28:59
Speaker 1: convinced it's somebody on the very fringes of their life
29:03
Speaker 1: or somebody they have never met at all. Coffendaffer said
29:09
Speaker 1: one theory is the killer is someone that may have
29:12
Speaker 1: built up anger against one of more, one or more
29:15
Speaker 1: of the slain students. But another theory she is leaning
29:19
Speaker 1: towards is the killer is someone with perverted thoughts and
29:22
Speaker 1: anger towards women in general, who took the opportunity to
29:26
Speaker 1: strike on the night of the murders. Very possible. Now, look,
29:30
Speaker 1: I don't know if I buy into this femicide theory
29:33
Speaker 1: in this instance, but I'm not too sure if I'm there,
29:36
Speaker 1: but it's certainly an interesting theory to discuss, considering we
29:39
Speaker 1: don't really know the motivation. We don't know who the
29:43
Speaker 1: person is. We don't know their psyche. We can't rule
29:46
Speaker 1: it out. That's for damn sure. They're known as incels.
29:52
Speaker 1: Who has watched this house? Who is seeing all of
29:54
Speaker 1: these beautiful girls go in and out and their rage
29:57
Speaker 1: and their own personal horrific desires they realized that night.
30:02
Speaker 1: And remember, that's what I was saying too. This could
30:05
Speaker 1: be somebody who has been watching them and then the
30:08
Speaker 1: night of the 13th or morning of the 13th, well,
30:11
Speaker 1: that was the perfect time to strike. I mean, timing
30:14
Speaker 1: it right around the holidays like that. So if it
30:16
Speaker 1: was premeditated, that leads me to believe that this crime
30:20
Speaker 1: was committed when it was committed for maximum impact on
30:23
Speaker 1: the families and on everyone around them. Right around the
30:26
Speaker 1: holidays to do this? I mean, obviously there's no optimal
30:31
Speaker 1: time for somebody to get murdered, but right around the
30:34
Speaker 1: holidays is really just unbelievably callous. Somebody still in that area,
30:41
Speaker 1: somebody that has seen these beautiful girls because only girls
30:44
Speaker 1: live there, right? An individual with absolutely horrible, murderous desires
30:49
Speaker 1: against these women, a femicide type case, and it came
30:53
Speaker 1: to a boiling point combined with an opportunity. And we
30:57
Speaker 1: can't rule it out. When you're talking about something like
31:01
Speaker 1: this with no rhyme or reason, I don't think anything
31:04
Speaker 1: should be taken off the table besides the most crazy
31:07
Speaker 1: stuff like, you know, drug dealers or stuff like that.
31:10
Speaker 1: And while you can't completely rule that out, I think
31:13
Speaker 1: you can put that at the bottom of the likelihood chart.
31:20
Speaker 1: Femicide is defined as the intentional murder of women because
31:23
Speaker 1: they are women. There are two categories of femicide, intimate
31:27
Speaker 1: and non-intimate. The former relates to the killing of women
31:30
Speaker 1: by current or former partners, while the latter involves the
31:33
Speaker 1: killing of women by people with whom they did not
31:36
Speaker 1: share an intimate relationship. And as we work through this,
31:41
Speaker 1: it looks like nobody who was connected to these girls
31:44
Speaker 1: is responsible. Certainly not Jack, according to the police, or
31:49
Speaker 1: anybody else that was around them or in their orbit.
31:53
Speaker 1: So the question remains, who is this person or persons
31:57
Speaker 1: who is responsible for these murders? And when you're trying
32:00
Speaker 1: to figure that out, you can't leave any of these
32:04
Speaker 1: theories or any of these profiles off the table. And
32:08
Speaker 1: I'm sure the investigators are going through all of these
32:11
Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb. And with BAU there, I'm
32:14
Speaker 1: sure they have an abundance of profiles built. The killer
32:20
Speaker 1: may have been someone who attended a party at the
32:22
Speaker 1: house or knew the victims very loosely, she added. Now,
32:26
Speaker 1: I don't know if they attended a party here. I
32:30
Speaker 1: have a feeling that if this is the case and
32:32
Speaker 1: they were murdered by somebody not in their circle, that
32:35
Speaker 1: it's a complete stranger. Somebody who might have seen them
32:38
Speaker 1: at work. I haven't heard enough about what happened at
32:41
Speaker 1: that Mad Greek. You know, the restaurant they worked at.
32:44
Speaker 1: We haven't heard from anybody who works there, really. Were
32:47
Speaker 1: the girls being oogled at? Were there weirdos in there ever?
32:50
Speaker 1: I would guess so. It's right on the 95. One
32:53
Speaker 1: of the biggest arterials running through the state. In other words,
33:01
Speaker 1: the people there might not even know him, other than
33:04
Speaker 1: that he was around in the peripheral. But somebody who
33:06
Speaker 1: would have gone and noticed, she said. So you have
33:09
Speaker 1: the perfect storm that night. And this person, familiar with
33:12
Speaker 1: the house, familiar with when they came and left, and
33:15
Speaker 1: familiar with that area, to be able to leave quickly,
33:18
Speaker 1: familiar with the tree line of where they could have
33:20
Speaker 1: surveyed the house and seeing the lights go on and
33:24
Speaker 1: off and so forth and so forth. That could be
33:27
Speaker 1: why police have stated that they believe the murders were targeted,
33:31
Speaker 1: but have not concluded if the house or its occupants
33:34
Speaker 1: were the target, she said. And that makes sense. But
33:37
Speaker 1: my guess is here, and look, my speculation is that
33:40
Speaker 1: somebody was watching this house from the wooded area. They
33:44
Speaker 1: had a direct line of sight. into the house, into
33:47
Speaker 1: those bedrooms, and they became obsessed with these girls. And
33:52
Speaker 1: we all know the result. Now, again, that's just my
33:54
Speaker 1: speculation based on what we know so far. Could that
33:58
Speaker 1: change tomorrow? Hell, could that change this afternoon? Yep. If
34:02
Speaker 1: there's more evidence that's provided, wherever the evidence leads us,
34:06
Speaker 1: that's where we're going to go here on this podcast.
34:12
Speaker 1: Coffin Daffer said, There have been many cases like that
34:15
Speaker 1: where people are attacked viciously and it's not by anybody
34:18
Speaker 1: in their circle, but rather it's somebody outside that circle
34:21
Speaker 1: completely that has issues in and of themselves that they
34:25
Speaker 1: acted out on. She pointed to the 1979 murder of
34:30
Speaker 1: 18-year-old Michelle Martinko, whose killer Jerry Burns was arrested in 2018,
34:36
Speaker 1: 39 years after she was found dead in her parents'
34:39
Speaker 1: car outside a shopping mall in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Martinko
34:44
Speaker 1: was killed by a close acquaintance, Kofendaffer wrote in a
34:47
Speaker 1: recent tweet. The case was solved with DNA. DNA, perseverance,
34:52
Speaker 1: and luck will likely solve the Idaho homicide case too. Well,
34:57
Speaker 1: I don't know about the DNA. I mean, at this point,
34:59
Speaker 1: they've run that DNA. And it looks to me that
35:02
Speaker 1: the person or persons responsible here aren't in CODIS. So
35:06
Speaker 1: it's good to have that DNA, right? Because if you
35:09
Speaker 1: arrest somebody, you can really smack them hard and get
35:12
Speaker 1: that conviction to lock in if you have their DNA profile.
35:17
Speaker 1: But if you don't find somebody, you don't have a suspect,
35:20
Speaker 1: that DNA is not going to do you any good.
35:23
Speaker 1: So I think personally, it's going to be a tip
35:25
Speaker 1: from the public that leads to the person here getting
35:29
Speaker 1: captured and for justice to be applied. All right, folks,
35:34
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
35:36
Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci
35:39
Speaker 1: at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find
35:47
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
35:54
Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. It
35:58
Speaker 1: is one and welcome back to the program. Whenever you
36:02
Speaker 1: have a case that draws as much interest as the
36:06
Speaker 1: murders in Moscow has drawn, you're going to get a
36:10
Speaker 1: bunch of people speculating on what happened. That's how this works. However,
36:15
Speaker 1: the speculation in this case has been in overdrive since
36:20
Speaker 1: day one. People getting all kinds of crazy. talking about
36:25
Speaker 1: people by their government name, accusing people of all kinds
36:29
Speaker 1: of heinous, wild shit with literally nothing to back it up.
36:33
Speaker 1: You have people using spirit boxes and tarot cards. Never
36:37
Speaker 1: mind all of the psychics running around telling you that
36:40
Speaker 1: they know who killed these girls and then saying that
36:43
Speaker 1: it's somebody like a professor. So there certainly has been
36:49
Speaker 1: a bunch of yahoos who have come out of the
36:51
Speaker 1: woodwork here. And anytime you have a big tent at
36:54
Speaker 1: the circus, that means there's going to be more clowns.
36:58
Speaker 1: And there is no doubt that the clown car has
37:01
Speaker 1: certainly shown up to this investigation. Today, we have an
37:05
Speaker 1: article from The Independent and the headline, Online Sleuths Hijacked
37:10
Speaker 1: the Idaho Murders Case. Should We Blame Them? This article
37:14
Speaker 1: was authored by Rachel Sharpe. They were killed in a
37:19
Speaker 1: drug deal gone wrong. It was revenge for bullying another
37:22
Speaker 1: student found dead months earlier. A disgruntled student blamed them
37:26
Speaker 1: for him being kicked out of a fraternity. A gang
37:29
Speaker 1: of frat boys decided to carry on a fight that
37:32
Speaker 1: broke out at a party earlier that night. The list
37:36
Speaker 1: goes on and on. These make up only a handful
37:40
Speaker 1: of the countless rumors and conspiracy theories circulating online in
37:44
Speaker 1: the weeks after four University of Idaho students were found
37:48
Speaker 1: butchered to death in the small college town of Moscow.
37:53
Speaker 1: And the whole drug deal gone wrong stuff, I mean,
37:56
Speaker 1: there were people out here talking about it was a
37:58
Speaker 1: cartel hit, it was this, that, the other thing, and
38:02
Speaker 1: it made my eyes roll back into my head. This
38:06
Speaker 1: is not how the cartel operates. The cartel isn't going
38:10
Speaker 1: into Moscow and they're not sending an assassin to Moscow
38:14
Speaker 1: with a knife to murder four college students. I found
38:17
Speaker 1: that theory to be straight bananas that anyone would even
38:20
Speaker 1: believe that for one second was just insane to me.
38:25
Speaker 1: A disgruntled student blamed them for him being kicked out
38:28
Speaker 1: of a fraternity. That didn't sound right either. In fact,
38:31
Speaker 1: I thought It would have to be somebody who was
38:33
Speaker 1: close to them, meaning an ex lover, something like that.
38:37
Speaker 1: But when all of that was proved to be not true,
38:41
Speaker 1: obviously it had to be somebody outside of their orbit.
38:44
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, that's what it turned out to be. Somebody
38:48
Speaker 1: who knew them, but it doesn't look like they knew him.
38:53
Speaker 1: But the emerging details appear even worse than the imaginations
38:57
Speaker 1: of online sleuths. A highly intelligent, seemingly high-functioning suspect with
39:02
Speaker 1: an interest in the criminal mind allegedly entered the home
39:06
Speaker 1: in the dead of night, dressed in all black and
39:08
Speaker 1: a mask, and stabbed the four victims multiple times each.
39:13
Speaker 1: The suspect, Brian Koberger, had no known connections to Kaylee Gonsalves,
39:17
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle and Ethan Chapin prior to that
39:22
Speaker 1: fateful night and no motive has been revealed The victims
39:26
Speaker 1: might not have even known he existed and that's where
39:29
Speaker 1: I'm at That's what I believe. I don't think that
39:32
Speaker 1: any of these kids had any idea that Creepy Coburger
39:35
Speaker 1: even existed. This dude's out here watching them, and I
39:39
Speaker 1: can't kick the thought of Francis Dollarhide watching the houses
39:44
Speaker 1: in the book The Red Dragon. Dude was out there lurking,
39:49
Speaker 1: Setting up a pattern of what the people were doing.
39:51
Speaker 1: When they came. When they left. And then at the
39:54
Speaker 1: perfect time. He'd go into the house and murder everybody.
39:57
Speaker 1: Now obviously. A little different here. But it's the same
40:00
Speaker 1: kind of scenario. When you think about this dude. Sitting
40:03
Speaker 1: on the house. Casing it. Watching it. And stalking these kids.
40:09
Speaker 1: And yet. The affidavit suggests he stalked their home in
40:12
Speaker 1: the lead-up to the attack after spending years studying criminal
40:16
Speaker 1: justice and how criminals feel while committing their crimes. Then,
40:20
Speaker 1: that night, he allegedly executed his own crime in a
40:24
Speaker 1: matter of minutes. Perhaps most chilling, one of two surviving
40:28
Speaker 1: roommates who were unharmed in the attack came face-to-face with
40:31
Speaker 1: the masked man thought to be the killer as he
40:34
Speaker 1: left the home. It's something straight out of a horror movie, 100%.
40:40
Speaker 1: Imagine being this poor kid, Dylan, and all the attacks
40:43
Speaker 1: and all the vitriol that's getting thrown her way. I mean,
40:47
Speaker 1: it's quite the leap for people out there to start saying, oh, yeah,
40:51
Speaker 1: she was involved. She helped him out. I mean, that's
40:54
Speaker 1: just crazy. Don't you think the investigators would know that?
40:58
Speaker 1: Don't you think they would have built that into their case?
41:03
Speaker 1: So it's ridiculous to me to see people going after
41:05
Speaker 1: the victim here and acting like she had something to
41:08
Speaker 1: do with this. You want to be mad at somebody,
41:11
Speaker 1: be mad at the suspect. Except this is no movie.
41:17
Speaker 1: It's real life for the families and friends of the
41:19
Speaker 1: murdered victims, for the two roommates who had seemingly a
41:22
Speaker 1: close call with the violent killer, and for the students
41:25
Speaker 1: and locals of Moscow now left to try and rebuild
41:29
Speaker 1: their lives. While America has long been fascinated with true crime,
41:34
Speaker 1: The shocking brutality and seeming randomness of the Moscow murders
41:38
Speaker 1: sent the internet sleuth community into overdrive. Conspiracy theories and
41:43
Speaker 1: rumors have dominated the investigation, with thousands of people joining
41:48
Speaker 1: social media groups to discuss their take on what transpired
41:52
Speaker 1: and why. Now, you see, I don't really have an
41:55
Speaker 1: issue with that. People are going to talk about what
41:57
Speaker 1: they want to talk about in these forums. And if
42:00
Speaker 1: they want to discuss what their theories are, hey, that's great.
42:03
Speaker 1: But when you start talking about people by their government
42:06
Speaker 1: name and start saying they're murderers or they're involved in killings,
42:11
Speaker 1: that's where it becomes way, way too much. And that's
42:15
Speaker 1: where people should face penalties. If you're out here defaming
42:18
Speaker 1: somebody and you're calling them a murderer, you should probably
42:21
Speaker 1: face some penalties for that, no? One particular group on
42:26
Speaker 1: Reddit has now amassed 123,000 members, ranking it in the
42:31
Speaker 1: top 1% of all groups on the platform. in terms
42:34
Speaker 1: of size. Meanwhile, a Facebook group with users raising theories
42:39
Speaker 1: about the case has topped 220,000 members. But are the
42:44
Speaker 1: online sleuths a help or a hindrance? There's no doubt
42:48
Speaker 1: that the intentions are well-meaning and that many of the
42:52
Speaker 1: individuals spending countless hours investigating the case from the comfort
42:56
Speaker 1: of their computers had a genuine desire to catch the killer.
43:00
Speaker 1: And I agree with that. I would say that the
43:02
Speaker 1: vast majority of people following this case, well, they just
43:06
Speaker 1: want some resolution and they want the person responsible to
43:09
Speaker 1: be held responsible. Then there's some people out there that
43:13
Speaker 1: get way too caught up in stuff like this. It
43:16
Speaker 1: takes over their lives. It dominates their lives. And they start,
43:20
Speaker 1: you know, falling into that rabbit hole. And what the
43:23
Speaker 1: big danger is, at least in my opinion, with anything
43:26
Speaker 1: like this is chasing your own confirmation bias. And when
43:30
Speaker 1: you start doing that, you're in real jeopardy of losing
43:34
Speaker 1: the plot. Many who took to Reddit or Facebook to
43:36
Speaker 1: share tips about the case told how they had already
43:40
Speaker 1: called in the information to the dedicated police tip line.
43:44
Speaker 1: But there's also no doubt that throughout the seven week
43:47
Speaker 1: investigation before Mr. Koberger's arrest, Moscow police were forced to
43:52
Speaker 1: spend a considerable amount of time swatting away rumors. No,
43:56
Speaker 1: they weren't. They were not forced to do that. They
43:59
Speaker 1: did it. on their own. They could have just said,
44:02
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing investigation. We have no comment. But
44:06
Speaker 1: when you start getting into the nitty gritty of it,
44:09
Speaker 1: you set yourself up for people to dissect every single
44:12
Speaker 1: word you say. So that doesn't really help the investigation, right?
44:18
Speaker 1: And I think it was a good idea for them
44:20
Speaker 1: to move away from those press conferences and just start
44:23
Speaker 1: doing the press releases. There's a lot less room for
44:28
Speaker 1: misinterpretation when you have a press release that's, you know,
44:32
Speaker 1: on paper rather than somebody up there giving a speech
44:36
Speaker 1: where reporters can trip him up or get him to
44:39
Speaker 1: say something that otherwise he might not have said. And
44:43
Speaker 1: the rumors weren't victimless. Several innocent people, many of whom
44:47
Speaker 1: were grieving for their friends, were attacked by baseless accusations
44:51
Speaker 1: that they were responsible for the brutal crimes. Hoodie Guy,
44:55
Speaker 1: who was spotted with Gonsalves and Mogan at a food
44:58
Speaker 1: truck hours before their deaths, and Gonsalves' former boyfriend, both
45:02
Speaker 1: came in the firing line, while some of the victim's
45:05
Speaker 1: families were targeted with death threats. The boyfriend of one
45:09
Speaker 1: of the surviving roommates responded to the social media critics head-on,
45:13
Speaker 1: slamming a sickening rumor that the couple, and even his
45:17
Speaker 1: own father, were involved in the murders. I mean, can
45:21
Speaker 1: you imagine sitting around and coming up with this shit
45:25
Speaker 1: If you want to come up with fanfiction, write a book.
45:29
Speaker 1: You don't need to inject yourself into a situation like
45:32
Speaker 1: this with real lives and real people suffering and try
45:36
Speaker 1: to make it about you and come up with all
45:39
Speaker 1: kinds of weird-ass fanfiction that is not even close to reality.
45:45
Speaker 1: Moscow police ended up compiling a list of individuals who
45:49
Speaker 1: had been shrouded in suspicion and who they had ruled
45:52
Speaker 1: out as potential suspects, a list that the department was
45:56
Speaker 1: forced to keep adding to day by day. And that's
45:59
Speaker 1: a good thing. Keep adding to it. No need to
46:02
Speaker 1: give the interviews. No need for the press conferences. Just
46:05
Speaker 1: keep releasing these press releases. And yet one person who
46:10
Speaker 1: was never on the radar of the army of internet
46:13
Speaker 1: detectives was Brian Koberger. as well as impacting the police investigation,
46:18
Speaker 1: the online sleuths, to some extent, also impacted the media coverage,
46:23
Speaker 1: which was undeniably shaped by some of the more plausible
46:26
Speaker 1: tips that arose first on the likes of Reddit. And
46:29
Speaker 1: that's pretty sad, honestly. To all of the journalists out
46:32
Speaker 1: there who are covering stuff like this, you have to
46:35
Speaker 1: go and develop your own sources. Don't be lazy. Don't
46:38
Speaker 1: go on forums and don't spread rumors that are unverified.
46:43
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that there have been cases in the
46:45
Speaker 1: past where internet sleuths did get answers. When Gabby Petito's
46:50
Speaker 1: remains were found after she vanished on a cross-country trip,
46:54
Speaker 1: her mother praised the online community for their involvement. They
46:58
Speaker 1: are incredible. The sleuths, the internet sleuths, they do a
47:01
Speaker 1: great job. They really do, she said. And I think
47:04
Speaker 1: that was a little bit different of a case. It's
47:06
Speaker 1: like comparing apples and oranges almost. Now, of course, The interest,
47:10
Speaker 1: that was on par with what's going on here almost,
47:14
Speaker 1: but all of the other things surrounding this case, a
47:17
Speaker 1: whole lot different. People pretty much knew right away that bitch-ass, ball-headed, barefooted,
47:24
Speaker 1: melon-munching Brian Laundrie was the one who hurt Gabby Petito.
47:30
Speaker 1: You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put it
47:32
Speaker 1: together that if you go on a trip with your
47:34
Speaker 1: girlfriend and you come home alone, that, yeah, something probably
47:37
Speaker 1: went down and you're probably responsible. And the sleuths in
47:43
Speaker 1: that case, they helped find her remains using footage, right,
47:47
Speaker 1: from the dash cam and different people who were at
47:49
Speaker 1: the park. So certainly there are points in time where
47:54
Speaker 1: Internet sleuthing and people doing investigations on their own certainly
47:59
Speaker 1: have been successful in helping bring people to justice. Look
48:02
Speaker 1: at the Golden State Killer. At the very least, there's
48:06
Speaker 1: no doubt that Internet sleuths can amplify a case, reaching
48:10
Speaker 1: someone who may just hold that key piece of information
48:13
Speaker 1: investigators need. Mr. Kohlberger is in custody, having denied the
48:18
Speaker 1: allegations against him as he awaits trial. Meanwhile, the online
48:22
Speaker 1: rumor mill around the Idaho murders hasn't stopped. Since then,
48:26
Speaker 1: sleuths have honed in on an account that regularly posted
48:31
Speaker 1: in social media group discussions about the case before his arrest,
48:35
Speaker 1: with many believing Mr. Kohlberger to be the person behind
48:39
Speaker 1: the account. Others claim to have spotted Mr. Kohlberger in
48:43
Speaker 1: footage attending the victim's vigil. The man in the footage
48:46
Speaker 1: has since been revealed to be a different man. And
48:51
Speaker 1: despite police saying Mr. Kohlberger acted alone, the surviving roommate,
48:56
Speaker 1: who states she saw a man believed to be the killer,
48:59
Speaker 1: a 19-year-old who has gone through a traumatic experience, is
49:02
Speaker 1: now facing relentless accusations of being involved. With interest in
49:07
Speaker 1: the case showing no signs of dying down, it's clear
49:10
Speaker 1: the online sleuths will continue to build their own investigations,
49:14
Speaker 1: for better or for worse. Now I don't even think
49:19
Speaker 1: you can call people who are going after the surviving
49:21
Speaker 1: roommate an online sleuth, right? How about an online bully?
49:27
Speaker 1: Here's an idea. Leave them alone. Pretty simple, right? If
49:32
Speaker 1: you want to have anger, you want to have rage,
49:35
Speaker 1: you want to have all kinds of vitriol, aim that
49:38
Speaker 1: at the suspect. Aim that at the fact that this
49:41
Speaker 1: punk-ass motherfucker crept into their house and killed them while
49:45
Speaker 1: they were sleeping. Don't blame the 19-year-old girl who went
49:49
Speaker 1: through a traumatic experience, and we don't even have the
49:51
Speaker 1: context of what went down. That is straight-up ludicrous to me.
49:58
Speaker 1: But you're going to have people do what they're going
50:00
Speaker 1: to do, and there's no stopping the Internet. We all
50:03
Speaker 1: know that. Once the Internet gets rolling, it's like an avalanche.
50:08
Speaker 1: So my advice is ignore the nonsense, stick to the
50:12
Speaker 1: meat and the potatoes, and you're going to be fine.
50:15
Speaker 1: You're going to be on the right path. No psychics,
50:18
Speaker 1: no tarot card readers, no spirit boxes. You can miss
50:22
Speaker 1: me with all of that weird ass snake oil salesman BS.
50:28
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
50:30
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
50:33
Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
50:42
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
50:49
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box. Bye.