Latest / Bald Enough to Say It / Ep 19: Ever Been Swallowed Up Pt. 2

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Ep 19: Ever Been Swallowed Up Pt. 2 · Bald Enough to Say It

• Shaun: I wish like one day. Jen: no. Barry: I'm gonna figure out how to do it. And now the light tick tock shop strikes again. Shaun: There we go. She fixed the tic-tac-shot. Jen: I've I've figured it out now, okay. My computer's not ba off of TikTok shop, thank you. Thank you very much. Barry: that's your computer, my bad. Shaun: man, I wonder, does mine? Could you hear that? Not as loud as your spring. Barry: Mm, a little bit. Not springy. Not spring and sprung over here. Jen: Yeah, but not I it's not as bad. See, I don't even feel like it's the mic, it's just the thing. So I just need to get a new yeah, the a new arm. Barry: It's the boom arm. It is. Shaun: I have one. I'm pretty sure you can have it. Jen: Okay, thanks. Shaun: I'm pretty sure it's just sitting in my closet. Barry: There you go. Anyways, revelations from Jen: I'm cleaning out my closet. Shaun: yes, Barry: Shaun. Shaun: I do. have a revelation. Like last week we were talking about the Clancy trial situation thing. Like Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shaun: we started to have that conversation and I just want to say like I've been very apprehensive to talk about that situation because it's been so divisive. Yeah, extremely. Jen: Yeah. It's it's and it's very Barry: I mean it's it's hot topic, yeah. Jen: gray and it's very like everybody has very strong opinions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Barry: It's a lot of opinions. I'm gonna say it's a whole lot of opinions. Shaun: whole lot of opinions. And I do have a new opinion on it. I have a new opinion on it because, Jen: I can't wait to hear. Shaun: I want to retract what I said last week, because last week, Barry, you and Jen: Hm. Shaun: I, we both agreed that everyone should be held accountable in the situation. Like Barry: Yes. Shaun: she should, her husband, Patrick, should, and also the doctors who weren't prescribing the correct dosages of medicine or giving her this insane cocktail of medicine Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: that she was taking. I want to retract that statement in a sense that I think that I'm not saying that he did it, but I think it is Patrick's fault. The Barry: Ooh or Shaun: reason why I think that it is his fault is because he should have left her. Barry: He should have left her, like before any of all this happened. Got it. Shaun: He should have left her, yeah. Divorced her and took the Jen: Like divorced her. Shaun: kids back when all of this stuff was going on. I get it, being a supportive husband, trying to get her the help, trying to do all of these different things. it's not, hold on, if it's not working, Barry: I see it. Shaun: if it's not working, at what point do you say, hey, this is not healthy for me and my children, we need to get out of this Jen: Yeah. Shaun: situation? Take the kids and leave. Barry: But why does he take the kids? Shaun: Why, because she's the one that's going through all of the mental hospitals and having all of these issues and episodes. Why would he not take the kids and get out? If it's an unhealthy situation. Jen: I feel like this mm-hmm. Barry: That's you're that's gonna be tough to a mother going through postpartum because a mother going through postpartum still doesn't need to be separated from her children. There Jen: That's t that's tough. Because I th I I hear what you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. Shaun: Let's talk about that. Why is that tough? Barry: should be better guardrails put in place for safety to occur for her and the kids. Jen: Yeah. A hundred percent. Barry: And I Shaun: If she is seeking help and it's Barry: Yes. Shaun: not working, how was that not the proof that the children are not in a safe situation? Barry: But was she a threat to them before this happened? Jen: But it was never exactly at that point they didn't think that she was a threat to the children. Like Barry: I d the doctor told him never to leave her alone with the children. She right? Am I I just make sure I I'm understanding Shaun: Yes. That's why he that's why he's catching so much crap because he left to go to the store or whatever happened during that. Barry: 'cause I've heard or read that. I know that I know that from somewhere. Is that a true reflection of the case? Shaun: Dude, this case Jen: I Shaun: has been a botched, botched job from the beginning. It's Barry: I'm just asking. a hundred percent. Yes. Jen: Yeah. For sure. I just think that's such a very Shaun: been an absolute crap show. Jen: like I think that's an easy one to go to. It's an easy thing to Barry: I see both sides of it. It's Jen: jump to because I think postpartum and the like the hormonal thing that happens when women give birth is just so vastly misunderstood. It's so vastly understudied, under medicated it or over medicated in this case. Like it's just to jump to a woman losing her children. Barry: I I I would find that hard to justify. Yeah. I would. I would agree on that particularly. It's gonna be hard for her to get it back. Especially if she's going Jen: Because of the postpartum state she's in, that's hard. Like because especially once ch custody is taken away in some way, it's it's very hard to get back. Shaun: Okay, question. Barry: like legit like going to treatment centers and stuff like that. That's going to be something where he could Jen: Mm-hmm. And also I don't Barry: literally withhold the Shaun: question Barry: children from them. Shaun: because I Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: think that what's happening right now is the exact same thing that's happening in the case. Why are we so concerned with her and not what's best for the children? Barry: No, 'cause the children still need to have in a relationship with their mother that at in some capacity. Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: Like you can't just be like, yo, we're deucin out. Like I get divorcing. No, Shaun: Kids are taken away from their dads every single day. Barry: no, no, and you're right. I'm just saying I have I'm Shaun: What? what? What? Barry: Whoa. Jen: Again, I d I feel like we will n Shaun: Why is that so? Jen: not stop talking if we go down that road. Barry: this Shaun: Does that not happen? Jen: I I I think that statistically Barry: We live in a state where women are statistically handed the children more often than not. Whether that's the best situation Shaun: more often than not. Jen: A hundred percent. And I wanna know statistically w how many men actually truly like fight for full custody and lose it be just because the woman wants it. Barry: I don't know if mm I think you might be surprised by that answer, Jen. Shaun: Yes, Jen: Okay. Shaun: I have examples of men who have gone through that. Now, of course, that's a very small sample size across the large state of Texas, but I've actually seen that happen. Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Barry: State of Texas, yeah. I wouldn't assume that a lot of men don't want to be in their children's life. I would not assume that. I don't want to say that there aren't. Shaun: And this brings on the bigger... Jen: think we've lived very different lives. And so my experience is just my experience in life and the friendships I've had and the experiences I've had ha have tainted my view to see any other side in in Barry: But why? Jen: that way. Barry: Why? You can't group Shaun: Yeah. Barry: all men into that, Jen. Just based off your experiences. Jen: No, and I'm not and I'm definitely not grouping all men and I'm not saying I'm but I think to use it as an argument for s something in this manner of saying, Well, men all the time fight and they never get it. I think that's like mm to to use that is Shaun: I would argue that it's much more common for a man not to get any custody than for a woman to not get any custody. Jen: N no, a a hundred percent. I would absolutely agree with that, but I don't think it's because the justice system is just unfair to men. I Barry: Do. Jen: don't agree. Barry: I'm gonna say that in our state, Shaun: Yeah. Barry: it's statistically proven that women are given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to custody of children. I I don't I mean, I don't know what to say besides that. Shaun: I mean, it's just like the little boy who his mom was beating him and hurting him. And yeah, Barry: the one yeah. Shaun: they were like, well, we're going to give you to your grandparents. He's like, well, they do it even worse. Like, we're going to give you to your aunt. She does it just as bad as they do. Like what? Jen: Who are you talking about? Shaun: So there was a boy, I think he's 14, I want to say. Barry: You talking that clip you sent? Shaun: missing a I don't know. Barry: She said something. Talking about the one where like she hit him with a hammer? no, a different one. Okay, okay, okay. Gotcha. Yo, that one's crazy, but. Shaun: No, no, no, no, no, that was a different one. Yeah, different one. I mean, that's a, that's another one. Like, I'm like, okay, we're just gonna whatever. But like this little boy and he's 14 years old, he's getting beat by his mom and Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: go to court and they're like, all right, well, we're going to give you to your grandparents because his dad, I don't know if his dad has passed or if he, or if she had full custody. Yeah. It, Jen: Yeah, that's my question. Where is the dad in in all of this? Shaun: it sound from what I, could see it sounded like she had full custody and he wasn't in the picture at all. Don't know what happened there. So like, well, we're gonna give you Jen: Well the Shaun: to your grandparents. Well, grandparents do it too. We're gonna give you to your aunt. She does it too. Why at this point, if this kid and going through these investigations and seeing all of these things that have happened, have they not asked him like, hey, is there anyone that you know of? where you can go that is safe, where you can go that is going to be a good environment for you. I think that the children get lost in some of these conversations because they don't have the proper people to advocate for them. And I think that's a big issue of what's happening in this Clancy trial is like, there's no one who's actually advocating for the kids. It's almost like, well, the kids are no longer here. And now it's just about figuring out. Yeah. Barry: no, it's just this it's just a sensationalized case now. It's just about getting Jen: Yeah. Barry: media attention now, bro. Unfortunately. Shaun: And it's all like, what is this all for? Like there are three kids that are gone and there's Jen: Mm. Barry: Gone. Shaun: zero accountability at this point. Barry: Hundred percent. Shaun: How can you possibly live with that? Jen: Yeah. I can I can one hundred I mean, we've Shaun: So I don't know, that's just my thought on it. I don't know. Jen: kind of already talked about it. Like I can a hundred percent agree with that sentiment because I'm team kids. I'm not team Lindsay, I'm not Team Patrick, I'm team kids. Somebody needs to be held accountable. I think there's more than just one person that needs to be held accountable in in all of this thing. Barry: I think it should be multiple people. Yes. Jen: I just the whole thing, like you said, Sarana, is just a big pile of poo. I just think some of the arguments that people are using for different things are just very like I don't know if we can I don't know if that's the best use of that. Shaun: I know. I feel like it's getting very twisted. Jen: for sure. Barry: yeah. Well I mean the media and social media's getting Shaun: Like the whole even. Barry: a hold of it now too. So you know everybody's adding their two cents and all that. Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shaun: Well, even with the jurors, like hearing these interviews that the jurors are having, I'm like, that's insane. Barry: I haven't heard any of that. They're already interviewing jurors? Jen: Which I really just don't think should be a thing. Like, I don't think Shaun: Yeah. Jen: you should be able to ever s l like l how you're locked down when you're a jury and you're not supposed to like see anything, look at anything, hear, talk about it with anybody. Barry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jen: Like, I feel like that should be continued after the trial. Like you should not be able to do interviews and things like that or documentaries and things like that after. Like you should not be able to Barry: Yeah, I'm alright with it. Jen: discuss what was happening in the jury room because that's the point of it being so locked down while they're there is so that they cannot have this attention and this these distracting things. They can only focus on what's being brought to them in that room. And I think that the jury room is like this sacred thing that you should have all the safeness, all of the whatever. Yes, but how Barry: It's not sacred. It's just a room, Jen. I've been in one. Jen: can any but then that brings in the scaredness of people or the overthinking or the if I if this gets out that I voted this way, what is this person gonna think of me? You know, like it taints people's ability to choose Barry: it does. I a hundred percent. I don't have y'all served on a jury. Jen: No, I haven't. Shaun: I have not. Thank God. me find some words to knock on. Barry: So I did. And it you do. Like, yo, I was scared I was going to be the one person who thought the way that I was thinking when we went to deliberate. I hundred percent had that fear. It is crazy not to be able to Jen: And so I feel like you have to create a safe space for that. Barry: but no, it's it was like I don't want to say it was stressful, but it was a very hard thing not to even talk to anybody because yo, I wouldn't be like, Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: yo, did you hear that? Like You are literally in your own head for the entirety of it. You can't say nothing to no one. So Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Barry: no, you have to be able to live release that. I would not want to be able to I would not want to keep that for the rest of my life, even in the case that I was in. I want to talk Jen: Mm. Barry: about it. So I'm okay with talking about it after the fact. I get why you do it during the the case, because Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: it does become very much a burden to think like this is somebody's life that I'm making a decision on. So that is a big deal. It is a big deal. And I was like, Jen: Yeah. Barry: not to say that I was proud, but it was a really cool thing to be a part of. I've always wanted to be a part of a jury. It's the only time I've ever like actually Shaun: It's so weird. Barry: had to show up. Yo, it's this it's like part of our constitution. It's it's it's history to me. Jen: He said, Okay, no more. Yeah. It part yeah. Shaun: Yeah. Barry: I got to serve as like something that was drawn up as part of our like American history. So it was cool to me. But Shaun: Yeah, that's fair. Barry: I don't think you should be restricted after it. If you want Shaun: And we're Barry: the attention, stu yo, I don't need to do interviews. Like if I was in this case, yo, Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: I would be the person that I would disappear and you wouldn't know me. I wouldn't want that. But I Shaun: Unless you get doxxed. Barry: or let's exactly. So I don't know, man. Nah, I don't have a problem when I'm talking. Shaun: I think that there should be a timeline. think that there should be like a whatever that is, like 60, 90 days or something like that. Like you can't do any of it. Barry: like a like a after a memorandum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you can't say anything. Jen: Mm. Shaun: Yeah. But I agree. I think that you do eventually have to get that out and say it because if not, you're going to. Barry: It's a lot to hold in. Jen: Well and now you think Barry: Even for three days. Like I was jury for three days. Jen: like even if they do because Shaun: That's a lot. Jen: specifically for this c case, they had a mistrial, how in the world are you gonna find a non biased jury after this? Because it's so talked about. Barry: Now that now I I don't think you should be able to talk about it w if it's a mistrial and it's gonna be retried, nothing should get out. 'Cause you aren't gonna get in. There should. So to y'all's point, I would agree with that. But once the case is done and tried, I was gonna say it doesn't sound like they did. There were people that had their Shaun: Well, that's why there should be a waiting period for it. But, but to the point of having a non-biased jury, they didn't have one the first time. Yeah. Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Barry: mind made up 'cause I mean Shaun: They went, like that's what they're talking about in these interviews is like, hey, this is an opportunity for us to have this landmark decision that's made here because of what's happening. Yeah, it's crazy because it's Jen: I guess I just haven't watched as many of the interviews of the juries. Shaun: almost like, are you not held, again, accountability, how are you not held accountable for voting that way or however? Yes. Jen: Is that what they said, that they just wanted to have a landmark decision or whatever? Like they wanted to be a part of it? Shaun: Like this was an opportunity, there was one of them that said this was an opportunity for us to have more attention on this subject matter or for this to be like a landmark decision that is made for women to get the help and attention that they need. And I'm not saying that's Jen: Hm. Shaun: not the case because this does need attention. This does need. Yes, Barry: But it should be based on fact. Jen: But did they say that that's what hmm Shaun: that is why they were voting that way. Barry: That was why they they would only they wouldn't go the other way, even if they factually felt it. So they shouldn't have been a juror. I'm sorry, 'cause Shaun: Yes. Which is, it shouldn't have been a juror at that point. Jen: Hmm. Barry: that was a big thing for me. It was like when I was chosen, they were like, even if you think this person is guilty, if you have any doubt that there's any reason that they might not be, you have to vote not guilty. So I was like, Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Barry: Okay, I can do that. And that's what they literally ask you that if you even if you think they're guilty, but there's still shreds of doubt in this in whatever the prosecution presents. Jen: In anything. Barry: If there's any shred of doubt, you can't vote guilty. Shaun: That's not guilty. Barry: Can you do that? And I was like, Yes, I can do that. Cause I'm gonna factually and for mine, it was a a DUI case. And I was like, yo, if he if the person's blood alcohol is above the legal limit, I don't see how I can't find them not guilty. And they were. But then to the point of what the lawyer the defense lawyer, he did a really good job. I got his information. If anybody needs a DUI lawyer, y'all, I'm telling you, this Jen: Ha ha ha ha. Barry: dude was amazing. But He po he poked so many holes and just caused so much doubt that the whole jury, the whole it was all it was yeah, it was like six dudes. It was crazy. The judge was like, Yo, we've never had an all male jury. So it was really interesting. But yo, you are scared. You I had the day we went to like start deliberating, I was like, What if I'm the one person and I'm not gonna Jen: Yeah. Barry: leave that hill because that's that's what I was told. If I have doubt, I vote not guilty. And I did. There was doubt. Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shaun: Yeah. Barry: They messed up. There were things that could have caused things to to be different, I feel. So I to to hear what Shaun is saying that they just wanted it to be that they shouldn't have been a juror. Like you have to Jen: Yeah. Barry: go in and you just have to hear the facts of the case. I don't I don't know. No, you're good. That's just Jen: Yeah, a hundred percent. Shaun: And that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think that there... okay. Like, I don't think that anyone... I can't really say anyone. I don't think the majority of people are saying that there doesn't need to be some sort of additional research, additional help, additional... Like, yeah, what can we do to help make this Barry: I would agree. This is very important. Yes. To Jen's point. Yes. There should be more things happening. Mm-hmm. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: easier for these mothers that are going through this? Like, Barry: Facts. Shaun: I don't think that that's being said. What I do have the problem with is that you're using it as an opportunity for that while you're a juror. Barry: To make this something, to force this to be that. Shaun: Yeah. Jen: Yeah, I just I need to go watch the juror interviews apparently because I haven't seen that. Shaun: Yeah, I've seen, I think, three of them. And yeah, they were right along the same lines. Barry: Yeah, and to this one, yeah, I would I just think they all all of had some mishandling of the situation. So there should be accountable across the board. I from the things that I know, and again, I Shaun: That's where, yeah, from the very beginning, this has just been disgusting. Jen: Yeah. It sounds like multiple. Yeah. Barry: wasn't in there listening to the entirety of the jury the case, so you I mean, there could be facts that would change my mind potentially, but I don't know. Again, I just try and approach things factually and what the evidence shows. Jen: But I think that's kind of what people were upset about to Barry's point with his instruction of on the jury, if you have the s tiniest shred of doubt, you are instructed to pick not guilty. Barry: Th it is. That's how they present it. Or that's how they presented in Texas. Where is this in Colorado or something in it? Massach it's Massachusetts. Jen: Mm, Massachusetts. Shaun: Massachusetts. But that was never the defense's approach. Barry: No, they were doing the innocent on the grounds of insanity. Jen: Mm-hmm, Shaun: Yeah. So Jen: mm-hmm. Shaun: that's when I'm like, mean, at that point, Barry: I don't know man. Shaun: like if that's your defense, you're saying that, hey, she, she did it. She's willing to say, well, that's something earlier in April, Jen: But no, so they no. Shaun: like they were saying like, Hey, she's willing to say that she did it for whatever we can do on the back end side of that. Barry: she was trying to cop a plea deal? Shaun: But now he's taken a different approach when he came back in September. And he was saying, like, where is the evidence? And now he's going with a completely different approach than what he took earlier this year. So how was there any justice in that? Barry: There's none. Unfortunately. Jen: Mm. Barry: But I mean our our system is pretty flawed, so Shaun: Well, Jent, what are you thinking? You're thinking something about that. Jen: Yeah, I'm thinking a lot of things, honestly. Barry: She got opinions, bro. Jen: I think we just I don't know. I agree, y'all. I'm team kids all the way. But when I think of when I think to talk to that point, like d judicially, our system is effed up. You Barry: Very much. Shaun: yeah. Jen: it's so segregated and meticulous and Based on this charge, you have to argue this way. And once you get past that, then you can then argue this side. And then then you can, and I feel like that's what they're doing is what they were approached with, what the prosecution was coming at them with at the beginning. He didn't have all of the evidence, all the case, all of the anything. He was uncovering that as they were going through and getting prepping for this trial. So he had, this is what he had at the moment. And this is what he had to go in and argue at that point. And now that we're at this point where we do have all of this evidence, we do have all of this other things that are coming forward and whatever, now they're saying, okay, well, since we're we have a mistrial, we're we're already there. I have the opportunity to be doing this instead. So to pigeonhole and say, well, that's what they argued. So she was willing to say it. So then she must be, she must have done it. I feel like that is really tricky when it comes to specifically our judicial system and the way that it is set up. And the way that people are counseled to approach charges and things like that. Shaun: I find it difficult, and again, I think this is a per person type of a situation, but I find it difficult as a non-parent to think Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: that if anyone ever accused me of harming my children, Jen: Hundred percent. Mm-hmm. Shaun: that my initial defense would be, I'm willing to say that I did it. Barry: Unless you did it. Jen: Hundred percent. Shaun: I find that extremely difficult to think that any parent would ever do that. Jen: Hundred percent. And I as a parent, I couldn't ever imagine myself ever being okay saying that or anything or Shaun: Yeah. Jen: ever that being my defense. But again, in her situation, which I am not in, sh seems like she had been in this drugged psychosis state. She literally died. They brought her back to life, like she came out of a coma basically, not knowing what was happening or whatever. And everybody's telling her, This is what you did. You chill killed your children. So she's obviously like, what the okay, well, what do I need to do? And the lawyers coming to her and saying, Look, the best thing we could hope for out of this is if you plead insanity and we can work around that. And so they went with, okay, we're gonna plead insanity and work around that. Hopefully we can get a mistrial. Hopefully can we can get a not guilty verdict and then we can go from there. Or they we get a mistrial. Now we're gonna argue this other thing because of whatever's happening at the moment. I just I don't know. I feel like to jump straight to well, that was their initial argument. So that's what we're sticking with. And that is the end all be all is just I don't Again, team children. Shaun: Yeah. That's, I just, want some kind of justice for these kids. Jen: Yeah, a hundred percent. Barry: Sad thing with our justice system is that it's not always the case. I was gonna say. That's why I say that's hardly ever the case. Like we said, Shaun: Dude, there's hardly ever any justice for any man. There's hardly ever any justice. Yeah. Jen: Yeah. And what is justice? You know what I mean? Like what is the what is the proper justice for this? Because no matter what, they're never gonna come back. Barry: for people to be held accountable, then no there isn't, you won't change what happened. But to hold accountability to the people that caused it, I would hope that does happen. But I don't know if it will. Unfortunately. Shaun: I think. Barry: 'Cause it's yeah, I Jen: Tough one. Barry: don't know, man. Sounds like a lot of people messed up. Shaun: Well, and I think that kind of goes Jen: yeah. Shaun: into the conversation that we were starting to have at the end of episode 18 to about like men's mental health and how like men, men and women see the world so vastly differently. It's. Barry: So different. It's crazy. The older I Jen: Very different, yeah. Barry: get I see that so just much clearer it is. Shaun: Yes, it's like Jen: Uh-huh. Shaun: from from the very beginning, we are raised extremely differently. And Barry: Yeah we are. Shaun: that leads us to this like mindset that is so far apart, that it's Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: it's honestly quite astonishing, like how differently. Yeah, like how differently we see the world and Jen: That we can get along at all. That we can see eye to eye on things. Yeah. Shaun: how we can coexist with each Jen: Yeah. Shaun: other. So don't know, Barry, I know that you have thoughts when it comes to like men's mental health and Barry: I think it goes to your point. Shaun: how that's handled. Barry: I think it's just how we are, for lack of a better word, programmed as we grow up, man. I mean I feel like men are taught to be this strong person, to Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: go out and take care of people and to not really I don't wanna say express your emotions, but to what I was saying last week, like you just Jen: Yeah, don't show it at all. Barry: do what you you have to do. Like I d Yeah, I have emotions. I yo make movies make me cry all the time. Like I have no problem expressing my emotions. It's a fact. I will not hide that. Yo, I cry at movies Shaun: What movie? Where? I didn't see it. What movie was this? Barry: all the time. Especially if it has something to do with kids, bro. Like, please tug at my heartstrings any harder. Jen: yeah. No, I'm done now. Yeah. Shaun: yeah, for sure. Barry: Yeah, no. But I just I don't know. To to your point though, I think men are taught just how to treat women, all that good stuff. But We aren't taught how to express our emotions, so we don't do it well. I know I don't. I am I've told y'all this. Becca will will attest to it. I am horrible expressing Jen: Ha Barry: my emotions. I have always been just a very Shaun: same. I'll second that. Barry: self-sufficient person. And that goes back to bef like just growing up too. I mean, I've always Jen: Yeah. Barry: been just very internal with my thoughts, my emotions. Jen: Mm. Barry: And I just work through them on my own. Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: I know Becca would love for me to express them. I mean, we talked about right keeping certain things to ourselves, and that is just one thing that I don't do well. And Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: I don't think that I struggle from depression or ang like I'm not an anxious person, y'all. I don't let much bother not much of this world that happens bothers me. Jen: Yeah. Barry: I try and Shaun: Yeah. Barry: again approach it factually and I try and just again, what happened. Do I want to learn from things? Sure. How do I feel about them? Does it really matter? Cause yo, if my toilet's busted, guess what? Jen: Is it gonna change? Barry: Am I if I'm upset, it doesn't matter. I gotta fix it. I don't know. That's just but that's my approach. Shaun: We've got to do it. Got to take care of it. Yeah. Yeah. Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: Should I be more emotional when it comes to certain decisions? I'm sure it would be beneficial. But I've always just tried to be factual and I mean, Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: it is what it is. I know that's a very overused saying, but I don't know. I just it Jen: Nah, I use it all the time. Barry: it really is. Like things happen and y'all Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: if y'all don't know, y'all have very little control in this world. So just keep if you haven't figured it out yet, just so you know. Jen: If you haven't figured that out yet, yikes. It's coming. Shaun: PSA just so you know. Barry: There is so much in this world that you feel you have control over, you really Shaun: Mm-hmm. Barry: don't. You really only have control over such small things in your life. Yo, you can't control how if a crazy person is driving one day and just takes you out, like it happens. Like, unfortunately, but it does. That's what I'm saying. Like, yo, Shaun: Dude, I almost saw that happen actually. Barry: we are so lucky just to be here in this moment. And maybe we're not. Maybe this is quantum immortality and we are just on our own timeline living the best Jen: Mm-hmm. None of us are here. Barry: life. Who knows? Maybe it already is over and we're just it's going out slowly. I don't know. But Shaun: Maybe everything has already happened and we're just here still. man. Jen: It's all a simulation. Barry: I it's just yeah, I again I struggle to empathize with like anxiety and To Jen's point, I feel like kids, not to say that they shouldn't be educated on it, but they are it is very loud and clear in their ear that it is a thing. Yo, I didn't know what anxiety was when I was fourteen, fifteen year old. I had no clue. Did I suffer from it? Probably. But what kid doesn't? What p adult does? I mean, we're all anxious at some point in life. And there's things that causes anxiousness. But I yes, no, I men mental health. For men and women, I think it should all be better, but at the same time I I struggle to like really get too upset about it 'cause to to my point, I gotta do what I gotta do. Like I've got a wife, I've got two kids. And it is, like Jen: He said, 'Cause it is what it is and we keep on moving. Barry: that's my whole thing. It's regardless how I feel, I gotta do what I have to do. It doesn't matter. To Shaun's point. It doesn't really matter in the end, y'all. Like we are here for such a Shaun: It doesn't. Barry: short amount of time, like Jen: Mm. Barry: Our memories are gonna fade, our families are gonna fade. Like it's crazy to think about that. And you know, t I think about all the time, but I don't know. Maybe I just have a dark look on life. Becca told me that the other day. She's like, You're real negative lately and I was like, You know what? I just don't have much that's coming to Jen: What you been talking about? Barry: me that in a form of positivity on what I see on a day to date. So it is Shaun: in. Jen: It's just that like that conversation or that piece that's like you can start a conversation and you can talk about things and you can be so passionate about it, and then you keep talking about it and you realize how small and insignificant things really are. And Barry: It is. Jen: then you realize how small and insignificant your life is, and then you feel really gross and you're like, my god, well then I'm what's the point of everything? And then it's like this doom loop. You can't. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Barry: But you can't focus on that 'cause it didn't will become a doom loop. And then I'm sure that's how people get to depression, but Shaun: Well, yeah, that's all I was about to ask. Is that how people get to because I'm the same way like I don't is that how people get to the point of depression? Barry: I would a hundred percent think you Jen: Mm. yeah. They can't get theirself Barry: can't get out of that and just be like, you know, it is what it is. It's like right, Jen: out of the loop. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Barry: it is I don't Shaun: you Barry: know. Jen: Mm. Barry: I would think. I've I don't again, I've never I don't think I've ever suffered from depression. Maybe Shaun: Yeah, I'm ignorant to it. I really don't know. Yeah. Barry: I am ignorant to it. Maybe I got it and I just don't know. Jen: I literally have the outlook of like Shaun: Maybe I got it, just don't know. Jen: no one has it or everyone has it. And but what I mean by that is like it's a spectrum. We all have it. It's just how intense is it for you? Because Barry: I mean I could agree with that somewhat. But again, I don't wanna just lump everybody into that either. What does it matter? Shaun: I just don't. I feel that I struggle to not that I struggle to empathize with it because I can empathize with someone who's going through it. I struggle to comprehend it, I guess, because I haven't experienced it. Barry: Mm. I struggle to empathize with it. Maybe comprehension, yeah. Shaun: Yeah, like I or I don't know that I have like I don't know that I've ever experienced depression. So I don't know how to react to it or to respond to it Jen: But is it Shaun: like, what is it? What is it? Jen: I don't know, my thought is like, why does it need to be understood? Like do you have to be able to understand somebody's point of view or experience for it to just be? Shaun: I'm saying from no and I don't think so. That's why that's why I can empathize. Yeah. Barry: For me to empathize with them, yes. I can't. Jen: Really? I don't think so. I think I can see you struggling and I'm like, that doesn't make Barry: I can't tell you how it feels if I've never gone through it. Jen: sense to me, but okay. Like I don't think I have to understand Barry: That's not really empathizing. Jen: you to empathize. No. I don't think so. Cause pain is pain whether I think it's painful or not. Shaun: I think that you can empathize with people. Jen: I stress is stress whether I think that situation is stressful or not. Barry: I just feel like my empathy is way better when I've gone through and I've gone through a lot, so I usually can connect something to it. But Shaun: for sure. Yeah. Jen: yeah. Barry: I do struggle to empathize with anxiety and depression. I really do. Shaun: Yeah. Barry: Cause again, I get to the point where it's just like, Yes, you have every right to feel those emotions and to feel stressed or fear or worried. But again, to the point where you're creating false scenarios that probably won't happen. And that's what's Shaun: Yeah. Jen: Mm. Barry: causing you this. You're it's it's nothing that has Jen: Yeah. Barry: happened. It's literally in your brain that you're causing yourself this. I Shaun: That's where I get lost too. Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Barry: d I struggle with that. I do. Because I feel that's a choice. It's like I'm just gonna sit here and think about all things. Like, I don't know. I feel at some point it is. Jen: But is it a choice? Or is it like a chemical makeup that's misfiring in their brain that literally cannot let their brain function out of that? Barry: Don't I g again, I struggle 'cause I've never focused on something that much. Shaun: And I think it all goes back to how we're raised. as, and not saying that men don't experience anxiety and depression because they absolutely do. They absolutely do. I feel like it's probably, Barry: Anxiety or depression. No, a hundred percent they do. Yes. I would agree with it. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: again, I feel like it's probably a larger percentage of women that experience it than men or maybe women just explore it. Jen: Because we're told we're emotional beings. Shaun: Well, women just explore it Barry: Got them hormones. Shaun: more than the men do because that's, that's kind of how we're. And I can't speak for men overall, but generally speaking, how we're raised is always outward. Like this is how you treat other people. This is how you treat women. This is Barry: Portray, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: what you're supposed to do as a man so that you can prove your worth and you prove what it is that you need to do. And I think that that Barry: Yep. Prove your value to society. Shaun: credit to what you're saying, Barry, is like, yeah, it's like this past week for me sucked. I'm frustrated as hell about it. But yeah, it's like, what am I going to do? Like I just have to do it. Barry: But you did what you had to do to make it through, bro, right? But your frustration doesn't matter. It doesn't Jen: Mm. Barry: change what has happened. So why focus on the frustration? Shaun: Yeah, like I can't stress. Barry: Focus on how to fix the problems. That's that's to me what it is. I why am I gonna Shaun: to fix it. Yeah, like I can't stress about what might happen this week. Barry: waste the energy on being frustrated? I'm gonna use that energy instead of being frustrated to focus on the problem and fix it. And how do I get it? How do I move past this? Shaun: and how do I fix it? How do I get out of this? Yeah. Barry: I don't wanna be stuck in this of feeling frustration. Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: No. Barry: So once it's fixed, guess what? I might be frustrated about spending the money, but now I have the problem is checked off my list and I don't gotta worry about it. Shaun: Yes. So I think that that's just kind of like the man mentality of Jen: Mm. Shaun: it. I think that that's part of like men's mental health is a lot of times we are programmed like Barry said to just fix it. How do you fix it? How do you get out of it? How do you? Barry: And that's why I was like I hate to use that word. Yeah, that's and I am. I am a fix it person. Shaun: Yeah. Jen: I think it's just society tells guys, why are you showing emotion? Are you being a little girl? Why are you doing that? Shaun: 100%. Barry: I don't care about showing emotion. I just struggle at saying my emotions. I cry. Shaun: Yeah. Barry: If something hurts me or frustrates me, like to that extent, I have no problem. I will cry in front of anybody. I Shaun: Yeah. Barry: could care less what you think about me. But when it comes to like telling you what's bothering me, why does it matter? Shaun: Yeah, like I don't know how to verbalize it. Barry: Th but what's the point of verbalizing it to me? What does Shaun: That too. Yeah. What's the point? Barry: it matter? Shaun: It's like, I know what the problem is. I need to fix the problem. Leave me alone and let me fix the problem. That's basically what it is at that point. Barry: That's it. That's it. Jen: Yeah. Shaun: Like just let me solve what is going on. Barry: Why do I need to talk about why and how I feel what I feel? I Shaun: Yeah. Barry: feel frustrated because I gotta deal with this problem. That is the Shaun: Yeah. Barry: emotion. Maybe I'm just not emotionally depth. I'm just shallow. I Shaun: Yeah. Barry: don't know. Shaun: no. Barry: But I do s I do struggle to empathize or see f I don't know. Shaun: But to your point, Jen, I think that that does have a lot to do with how men handle their emotions and I don't want to say emotional intelligence, like our mental health, I'll say mental health, is like we have our outlets that we do, but a lot of men get judged for their outlets. if, well, I'm saying Barry: Ooh, what are you what are these outlets we're talking about? Jen: Like what? Shaun: like for you, Barry, yours is probably golf. Like Barry: Yeah. Shaun: when you go Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: out and you golf, you are on your escape. You've Like you're just Barry: Yeah. Shaun: out there, you're enjoying the time while you're out there, maybe having some drinks, hitting some balls, having a good time. Yeah. Barry: for sure having some drinks, yes. Shaun: And like that's your reset. That's how you reset and you can. Yeah. Barry: Among other things, working out is one that I try. Like I try and do stuff to s to let go of stress and yes, those would be some of the outlets. But also it relieves my stress to go spend time with my family too. You know what I mean? Shaun: And that's what Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: I'm saying. So I feel like a lot of times what men do to relieve stress sometimes, it can get put through kind of the, I guess this judgment in the court of public opinion of like, well, why are you doing this? Barry: I would agree with that. Mm-hmm. Well, and it's a lot of back and forth. Jen: Like what? I s like what? Shaun: Well, like going to play golf or like for me, I like to go shoot. Barry: Luckily I have Jen: Why do you what do you think is being judged? Yeah. Barry: an awesome spouse who doesn't like that you're you're not being a family man, that you're not being Shaun: Exactly. Barry: present. Like there's a d it's like, well, I wanna do this, but then it's taking away from also doing something else that I'm supposed to do as the man in this in this in these relationships. Shaun: Yeah, a lot of times it gets twisted Jen: Hm. Shaun: into, well, why are you spending your time doing that when instead you could be spending your time doing this with your family or doing Barry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shaun: these other things? Or if you want to be more productive in life or if you want to Barry: I mean Shaun: do like if you want to hit this certain point of your life. Jen: I don't know if that's like an all over like holistic thing. Shaun: That it happens a lot. Barry: It is. It is. I know a lot of friends that Shaun: It happens a whole lot. Barry: struggle like that in their sh their relationships. Shaun: Or like if you, again, for me, like I like to go shoot. So if I want to go shoot and like, let's say that I was in a relationship or if I had a family, well, why are you going and spending money and doing that when you could be with your kids or you could be with your wife and you can spend time doing that? Or a big one is gaming, a massive one. Barry: Yo, gaming is borderline like a addiction though, bro. That could take over of some people's lives. Shaun: No, OK, for some people, absolutely, for some people it is for some people going and having a drink is an addiction. Barry: True, you ain't wrong. Shaun: But like for some people, like a couple of hours just gaming, escaping like that can be. Barry: No, get away. No, and you should. I I I would hope in most healthy relationships that you have a spouse that allows that 'cause you should. Jen: Yeah. I feel like that's more of a relationship issue. Shaun: Yeah. Barry: But no, I I agree to Shaun's point it is a societ I think it is a lot more of a societal problem. Shaun: Yeah, I feel like society looks at it a lot differently for men than they do for women. Like a woman can Barry: I would agree with that. Jen: Mm. Shaun: go, she can do some things on her own. if she needs to go and have, hold on, she can go and have a girl's day. She can go to the nail salon, get her hair done or whatever it is that she wants to do. And like that's her me time. It's literally called me time. True or false? Let's pause right there. True or false? Jen: What true or false that it's called me time. That says nothing about she time. That's a Shaun: or self-care or self-care. Jen: that's a y'all included in that me too. Barry: Well that's not how I Shaun: No, it's not. Barry: go away. Shaun: That's not how it goes. Jen: Wha what? Okay. Shaun: And this is where I say, like, we're just different. Like men and women are just different. Jen: I think everything that in the most respectful, kind way, everything that you've said has been very situational depending on your relationship and not as a society. I just don't see that because my experience is very different. I will say is very, very different. Shaun: In what sense? Barry: Like you Jen: And Barry: and Kenny or you and the people, the relationships you've seen? Jen: All of the above. I've seen, I've experienced that the women in my life are the ones that take the the brunt of everything and the ones that are expected to stay home and take care of the children and and do the things and don't really get out. don't like mm mm. I just I've experienced very different realities. So that tells me, like, is it really truly an all around thing, or is this just truly very my experience has the been this? And so my views are so very focused on this. But then again, I think that's how we pigeonhole ourselves and how we create these arguments is that people just they've experienced it this way. So it's so difficult for us to see it in any other capacity. I'm just sitting here, like I literally am sitting here just taking it in all in, like, wow. Hmm. That's just not been my experience at all. So Barry: I think to I think Shaun said it last time. We were talking about like no, I think it was after the pod, but we were talking about Shaun: Maybe. Barry: like how we swing as a society to correct things, right? Jen: Yeah. Barry: So to your Shaun: Mm-hmm. Barry: point, Jen, I think the older generations did experience what you were talking about. Women were expected to be the homemakers. They didn't work. That was their job. I think as a society, we have shifted very hardcore to the other side. Now we're Men, which we should have been doing in the first place to counter to I don't I don't wanna say like cover my ass, but to say that this should have it shouldn't have been just women back in the day, the boomers, right? I mean th a lot of it comes back to the but now. Jen: waste the boomers. No, I'm just kidding. It all comes Shaun: Everything tracks back to the boomers. Jen: back to the boomers. They ruined it for everyone. Barry: But that was the thing. That's how it was understood. I mean, madmen, right? You think of that, that's kind of the generation Shaun: Yeah. Barry: that I'm thinking, right? Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: Like that was the expectation. That was societal norms. I do feel now we have shifted to where men are now expected to do a lot. And sometimes Shaun: Say it. Barry: no, and sometimes it is more than what certain and it could be to a relationship, but I have seen it more frequently. That men have stepped up and sometimes do more. than certain counterparts in relationships. And I'm not saying that to mine. I have a very balanced I do a lot. I I'm very proud of what I do for my children Jen: Mm-hmm. Barry: and for my wife. But I do feel that we are swinging things are swinging to in the pendulum of that. Shaun: Barry stop tipsawing. Barry: No, I I'm trying to be respectful and not say I don't wanna generalize. I'm not. Shaun: I think it all comes down to the way that we view the world, our paradigms. it's all this... Yes. Jen: Mm-hmm. Very sh very true. Yeah. Barry: Yo, the world is what we see it as. It's to Jen's point, sh it's to her experience, it's to your experience, Jen: What's you experience, yeah. Barry: Shaun. Shaun: Yes. Barry: It's not what we think it is, it's what we have experienced it as. Shaun: It's what we experience. And from my experience and what I see, and what I see a lot, is that men have more of a... a difficult time receiving empathy than women do. men Jen: Mm. I could probably get behind that statement. Shaun: have much more of an expectation on them than what Barry: I would agree with that. Jen: Mm, I don't know about Shaun: most women do. Because men are expected to be a provider, In the grand scheme of things. Jen: But I to Barry's point, I no, I don't I wouldn't say that's a standard anymore. Cause I I think for it Barry: Mm. Jen: in any modern household, I would c okay, this is where we can get tricky with these generalizations. For I think it is a much more modern take that there are two dual incomes. There are there is the man working and there's the women working, and together they bring in the income. I think for the majority, again, this is a generalization. Statistically I have no clue. But in my head As a modern society, I think we've gone away with men are me need to be the providers, women need to stay home. I think we've gone away with that. And it's much more a hundred percent. Barry: you can't afford that anymore. Can't afford that anymore. Shaun: Hold on. I wasn't going to say that. I wasn't going to say that. I wasn't going to say that women should stay at home. Barry: Unless you're out here making big bucks. Shaun: I'm saying that men are expected to be the providers. Like if something, a woman wants to have her career, a woman wants Jen: Mm. Shaun: to go and be successful, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. A woman still looks for a partner who can provide for her is what I'm getting at. A lot of times when women are looking for a partner, They look for someone who can provide stability in their life. Is that fair to say? Jen: I th I think that's not a gender thing. I think that's across the board. People look for someone who is stable and has income and can take care of themselves so that they can in in a partnership do that. Shaun: can't agree with that. I think that generally speaking, that's something that a lot of women look for, a provider and a protector. Like those are two things that, and again, can't say generally every woman, but most women look for in a partner and a spouse or relationship, someone that they're going to be with long term. They also expect for someone to be emotionally intelligent, someone who they can have conversations with, they can talk about their day, they can... relief stress and they can have these different types of, I don't know, guess, like experiences with this person and feel understood and feel heard. That's something that a lot of women look for as well. Barry: I'll go there. Shaun: I don't think that men put all of those same parameters on a woman. A lot of men do look for looks. lot, yeah, a lot of men do look for looks. Jen: What parameters yeah, I was about to say, what parameters do you think that they put? Shaun: They want someone who they find physically attractive. They want someone who they find is, I'm gonna say this very carefully, someone who challenges them enough to where it is not like a person who just does everything that he wants you to do, but at the same time, he wants to feel that he's getting respect from you at the same time. I feel like respect is also big for men Barry: It's It's a double edged sword right there. Shaun: as well. Barry: So that's a double edged sword right there, bro. Shaun: That's what I'm saying. I want to say this very carefully because men like the same way that a lot of women like things to be exciting, I guess. Men also look for that. So I think that those are some of the things that men look for versus some of the things that women look for. I feel like and that's a very small list of how everything goes. I'm not getting into like heights and weights and incomes and numbers and stuff like that, because that's just insane. But generally speaking, there are more expectations of a man than there are of a woman. A lot of times with a man, if she's hot, whatever dude, let's just go for it. We'll see how the relationship works out. I don't feel like a lot of women do that. Jen: And you think that's a woman's fault? Like you think that's a negative on a woman? That the man is okay with just being like, Well, she's fucking hot, so let's go. Shaun: I'm not saying that it's a woman's fault. I never once said that that was a woman's fault. I'm saying that there are more expectations of a man than a woman. Jen: But but again, who's letting the expectations go? And is that a Shaun: That's how we're raised. Jen: is does w do women need to have to let go of their expectations because men have lower expectations. Well, men have lower expectations, Shaun: Men aren't allowed to have expectations. Jen: so women need to not have expectations either. Shaun: When a man has expectations, he's being controlling or misogynistic. Most of the time, a lot of the times. We hear it all the time. Do we not hear Jen: Okay. Shaun: that all of the time that a man is controlling our misogynistic? Barry: I mean there's a lot of slippery slopes for sure. Jen: Mm-hmm. Because what is Shaun: I'm just saying. Jen: that man, what is what are these expectations that a man is saying that is causing him to be misogynistic? Like give me an example. Shaun: almost anything almost anything like if a man says that he will I Just said that I'm not gonna say this but it's something it's something that we see we see it on social media all of the time Barry: Do it, Shaun. Do it. Jen: Do it. Do it. Full send. We've committed to this conversation. All right. We're so over time. Shaun: If a man says that he wants Barry: I mean Shaun: a woman to be a certain weight He's a bad person If a woman says that she wants a man to be a certain height That's a standard that she has that's a boundary that she said Barry: An expectation. Jen: I agree. I I can get behind the hype thing. I can very much get behind the height thing. I do Barry: And income. Shaun: It's the same thing with Jen: think Shaun: income. I want a man that makes six figures. I want a man that makes 250,000. I want a man that's a millionaire. Barry: Yeah. Going back to the whole what shall we call it? Allowance talk. Shaun: Bill Hounstone. Jen: Do it. Shaun: Emma the asshole. There's another one. Jen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shaun: There are these expectations. I have an am I the asshole that Barry found. Barry: yeah, we're not gonna have time for that. We'll have to bring that one next week. We're already Jen: Mm. Shaun: no. Barry: at like hour and twenty, I think. Hour thirty close to it. We putin' we might have to Shaun: Something like that. I dunno. Jen: Mm. We're already splitting this episode somehow, so li it's gonna have to happen. Shaun: is gonna happen. It's fine. So no, Jen: So say what you were gonna say. Shaun: I don't even know what I was gonna say now. I'm just saying like from Barry: I would agree. There I Jen: I th I again I i it just it's again this conversation feels to me very it's because of your experience as a man that you feel so intensely about the standards that are placed upon men and that you think that there's more expectations on men than there are women. Cause I feel very much the opposite. I feel there are so many expectations on women. A lot of them do come into play when it comes to looks and what is their weight and what do they look like and are they getting old and how do they dress. and all of the things that women are told to to keep up with and are they a a good cook? Can they take care of you? How how cleanly are they? Do they take care of the house? Like I I see the opposite side because I'm a woman and I felt those expectations from the women's side. So I can get behind some of the things that you said because I very much agree. I think the height thing is a s a gross standard that many women do have on men and I I very much ag disagree with it. I think it's gross. so I can definitely get behind that one. I could probably get behind the wage one too, because that seems very much a more modern thing on socials that's like six five blue eyes, the guy in finance. Like that's just very much the trendy thing. but yeah I think I can't get behind everything that you said. Shaun: So do you not think that women put more pressure on themselves? Jen: No. Shaun: early. Jen: At all. Barry: Puts the pressure on you. Jen: Y Shaun: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Jen: I don't think I've ever felt pressure from a woman to look a certain way. Don't think I've ever experienced that in my life. Barry: See, I don't I feel like Becca when she wants to go see her friend she has to buy a new outfit 'cause she wants Shaun: Yeah. Barry: a new thing to show them. And I don't yo, you could wear you could wear shorts and shirts. Jen: Becca needs to be my friend because I would never. We're showing up in sweatpants and a dirty green T Barry: No, bro. Jen: shirt. Barry: I mean if it's a chill, but like if they're going out to like to do something, she's worried about what she looks like for her friends. And I don't think it's a pressure they put on I think it's to Shaun's point, something she puts on herself. Jen: But I also I think that's kind of a slippery slope comp thing too, because I also think there's just this element of I want to look good for me. Like sometimes I want to do my hair and do my makeup because I've worked from home every single day this week and haven't put a lick of makeup on and I want to feel like a human again. And I want to go out of this house and I wanna see people and I wanna have them see me looking like a normal human. And I think that has nothing to do. with the expectations or anything. I think that just has to do with I wanna feel good about myself. So yeah, I'm gonna go buy a new outfit because I wanna look good and I want people to see me 'cause I look good right now and that's just for me. I don't think that has to do with Barry: But why, why? Shaun: Well, but hold on to the exact point that you just made, you're doing it for yourself. So why does that get labeled as an expectation that men have on women? Like women, a Jen: Because I think Shaun: lot of times want to do it for themselves. Most, again, it's not unanimous. It's not every single man, but most men like a woman who's dressed normally, makeup, hair doesn't matter. Like just be natural. And a lot of men like that. Jen: I think that that's so great that you guys say that. I just don't think that that is a standard. Shaun: And that's where think the disconnect starts to happen. Because I think a lot of men really do think that, but women have it in their heads that they don't. And that they have to look a certain way to do it. Barry: I'm gonna gr most of my friends aren't worried about how their spouse are significant. Shaun: And not saying that every man is like that because that's absolutely Barry: No. Shaun: not true. There are certain men who want the arm Barry: There are. Shaun: candy and want his girl to dressed in the finest of clothes and have the fresh nails and fresh hair and. Barry: That sounds real expensive. Shaun: Sounds very exhausting on both sides of it. Jen: And as I've said before, you better be paying for it. Shaun: Yeah. They have a nut. Barry: Yeah, I'll tell now. None of it. Jen: Mm-mm. Shaun: So I don't know. think that... Jen: That's fine because y'all don't require that or want that. Barry: Exactly. Exactly. I think that's a waste of money and energy. Shaun: But women do. Women do desire that and want that. Barry: Becca still be going get her toes done. Shaun: Yeah. I don't think there's Barry: Her me time. Shaun: anything wrong with treating yourself or taking care of yourself. It just gets it. It gets labeled as an Barry: No, you should. Whatever that is for you, but Shaun: expectation on on women by women most of the time. Jen: Mm. I disagree. Barry: Mm. Shaun: and I think from a man's mental health standpoint, like we, we check out of it. And then once we check out, we're like, well, do what you want to do. if a man says, I don't care, like just do what you want to do. He's basically checked out at that point. Barry: A lot of the times that's all that y'all want to do anyways is do what you want to do. Shaun: is what you want to do. Is that not true? Barry: It's it you're laughing because it's true. Shaun: It is true. Barry: Right. Jen: But again, I say, how is that a woman thing? Like Barry: Jen, okay. Jen: y'all don't wanna do what you wanna do? Come on now. Barry: No, to Shaun's point, we literally say I don't care 'cause I don't wanna have a like a big like Shaun: don't want to argue. Barry: we're gonna do what you wanna do more times than not. I'm saying as a couple. Shaun: But a lot of times a woman wants a man to like plan it. Barry: To your point, you're shaking your head, Jen. So why are we gonna sit here and have conversation? Just do what you wanna do and I'm gonna be fine. So you don't why do I need to tell you that I wanna do what you wanna do? Like we're gonna do it, so let's just do it. Jen: I feel like I've fallen off the understanding of where this conversation is at. Shaun: We're talking about men's mental health and how it plays into this entire picture. Jen: Okay. Shaun: Like a lot of times we're just like, just do what you want to do. Like, where do you want to go? What do you want to eat? Where do you want to go? How I feel is irrelevant. Barry: What how I feel is not going to matter in the end 'cause you're Jen: Okay, but I feel like that's Barry: going to want Jen: simplifying it. Like, where where do you wanna go? That's not when women are like, but let's talk about your feelings about it. Like I feel like most women are not then I need Barry: No, no, that does happen. Yeah. I wanna hear your true thoughts and then I give Shaun: I feel like a lot of times it is. Yeah. Barry: you my true thoughts and it's not what you want. Then it's like, well, Shaun: It's not what you want to hear. Barry: okay, then you get upset. Like So why have the cover like let's just Jen: What conversations are y'all having? It's I'm so concerned. Barry: It's just in general. It's just I don't think it's anything to be concerned about. Shaun: It's nothing to be concerned about because we check it out. We're just like, whatever, we're Jen: Yeah. Shaun: just gonna do what we have to do to get on. Jen: But it doesn't seem to be whatever if you guys want to talk about it and say, Okay, well, men's mental health needs to be a bigger conversation, which I a hundred percent agree. Barry: I don't think it needs to be a bigger conversation. We're just pro Shaun: I don't, I don't either. Barry: providing our perspective on it. That's it. I don't think it's gonna change. Shaun: It will never change. Barry: Like we said, we are just different types of creatures, Jen: Beings. Barry: man. Shaun: Yeah. Jen: I guess. Barry: We don't see the world the same. Jen: for sure. Cause our experiences are different. But I think we Barry: So it's like yes. Jen: could all benefit to understand that a little more, that our experiences are very different and be more open to hearing other people's experiences and saying, yikes, I did not clock that at all. I wouldn't have thought that. I pretty much thought the opposite. So Barry: a hundred percent. Yeah. Jen: interesting. And like taking in and sitting in it in it for a bit. And, you know, understanding each other a bit more. But That's a lot to ask from people, I think. These days. Shaun: I mean, and that's why I say like it doesn't need Barry: Very much. Shaun: to be a conversation because it's not going to change. It literally Barry: I would agree. Jen: I don't like that Shaun: will not change. Jen: though. I think that's such a pessimistic look on life is just that everything's just gonna be the same. No, Shaun: It's a realistic look on life. Jen: because think of how far humanity has come with so many things. And if people just sat back and been like, well, we for sure are now, which I think is why we even Barry: And we're heading in the wrong direction, Jen. Look where where it's like we hit that ceiling and then we're going down. Jen: but I think that what that's what makes it even more important to say, hold the fuck up. No, absolutely not. Like we are not going back there. Come on now, y'all. Like we are beyond this. Shaun: We're not. Barry: We need to balance, but I don't know if we ever will. Jen: But you just you'd rather just sit there and be like, whatever, Shaun: Like you said earlier, the pendulum just swings. Jen: it's fine. It's gonna Barry: Yeah. Jen: be what it is. Barry: Yeah. 'Cause getting upset doesn't change it. Jen: I'm not saying getting upset. You guys were the ones that were just saying, get shit done. Stop thinking about it, stop talking about it, get shit done. Sitting there and saying, well, it's not Barry: Yeah. Jen: gonna change, so why get upset? Why do anything about it? Like you were the one just saying, go do something about it. Shaun: That's exactly what we're saying. Barry: I'm not No, I said I'm not gonna waste the energy on it. No. Shaun: We're not going to waste the time and energy talking or arguing about it. We're just going to do what needs to get done for the grand scheme. we can't, like you, there has literally not been a single person that has changed the world. You've maybe changed a piece of the world. You've maybe changed a piece Jen: Mm. Shaun: of history, but changing the entire world, humanity overall. Barry: Humans are humans we are who we Jen: Yeah, but you but Barry: are. Jen: in if you take it as of, well, what's the what's the point of doing it? What's the point of saying anything? What's the point of whatever? Is all of those things that those people did wouldn't have happened if they did them. But with that outlook, it's well nobody's not and nobody's gonna do anything about it because why? It's not gonna change. Shaun: Because it's not gonna change. Jen: But it could be better. Shaun: think it will. Barry: Could better. You ain't wrong, Jim. Could be better. Shaun: Yeah. Jen: You'd rather just sit in it and just be like, Well, I'm gonna complain about this all the time. Shaun: adults in it. think that's the point. Yeah. Barry: I don't complain about it very much. I just take it for what it is. We're just having a discussion on it now. Yeah. But Shaun: If we're talking about the conversation, then yeah, we're going to talk about it. Jen: Hm. Barry: like in my life I'm gonna be what I need to be for the people that I need to be there. Shaun: If anybody asks me, Shaun, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm all right. Barry: I'm fine. Shaun: I'm fine. Those are those are my go to answers. Like, Jen: Yeah. Barry: So Shaun: how's your day? It's good. It's all right. Jen: Yeah. Shaun: And it could be an Barry: I would agree with that. Shaun: absolutely terrible day. But what is the point in going down that rabbit hole? Jen: I think it's just human connection. I think it's just finding connections where you can Shaun: want to connect with people. Jen: and that's fine. I think that's a personal preference. But I think when you're arguing and saying, well, what's the point? For some people they do want connection. Like I find it really wonderful to have a connection with somebody, especially somebody that maybe I don't know that well, but they feel comfortable enough to tell me about something that happened in their day that it's made me a little vulnerable. I like that. I enjoy that. I think it makes the the human experience is what it is, is just connecting with people. I think that's the point. Shaun: That's admirable. Yeah, that's very admirable. Barry: You good for you, Jen. Good for you. Jen: I don't Shaun: I'm sorry. Jen: know. I forgot to hate y'all. I gotta go. It's past my bedtime. Shaun: let's get out of here. Tell us your thoughts. What are your thoughts on how we interact with each other? What is the meaning of life? Barry: What is the meaning of life, y'all? What is the meaning of life? Jen: What is we started the conversation this way. We're gonna end the conversation this way. Shaun: Drop your comments in the chat. What is the meaning of life? Yeah, what are your thoughts on? Jen: Lord. What is the meaning of life? We're clipping this part. Barry: And what are your thoughts on male, female, mental health? Shaun: I guess you can say gender roles or mental health on both sides. Yeah, we have Jen: Yeah, we kind of hit on a lot of some things this time. Shaun: a lot of things. This is I'm just going to say this is not the path that we planned on taking when we started this episode, but per norm. Jen: It really wasn't. Mm-mm. And I called it at the beginning. Barry: No. No. Jen: I said we should not have come in with all this heated energy beforehand and here we are. No. Barry: Yeah, it was a good combo though. we had our opinions. Shaun: Nobody was heated. Unless you're heated. I don't want to. I don't want to say how you're feeling, Jen. Barry: No, we just went all over the place. Jen: No, we just went. Barry: We do go all over the place. Shaun: Yeah, I don't know, a bunch of emotions happening. Barry: Everybody's Jen: It's all about emotion. Barry: entitled to Feel those emotions, Shaun: Everyone Barry: Joe. Shaun: entitlement let's talk about what's mine and mine is mine and what's yours is mine. Isn't that a saying don't we hear that all the time? Isn't that entitlement? Jen: Episode nineteen point fifty two. This episode split into four parts. We sure do. Barry: Right. Mm. Yes, it is. We do. From certain people. Shaun: All right. Well, let's get out of here episode 19 in the history books Jen: Mm-hmm. Shaun: Thank you all so much for coming to join us on this wild roller coaster of a journey that we had in episode 19 You did especially since this is free Barry: Got your money's worth tonight, y'all. It was a long one. Jen: Showed in. Mm. Really banked in on that one. Barry: Can't beat that. Banked. Shaun: Again if this is your first time come to check us out. Thank you so much welcome So glad that you made it through the episode. Yes, hopefully we didn't Jen: Hopefully we didn't traumatize you with the first one. Shaun: traumatize you and run you off Barry: Little off the deep end and little bit. Don't just come back. Do come back. No. A little more. Shaun: After one episode. Yes. before Jen: It's not always this wild. Shaun: we get actually before we get out of here and a couple of by time this drops in a couple of days. It is the Red River Showdown. need some I need some some predictions, Jen: But the rent and that Shaun: Barry, who do you think is going to win? You tell you. Barry: I mean I would I would go with U T 'cause Oklahoma's been trash. Shaun: That's true. Okay. Jen: Yikes. Shaun: Score? Do you have a score? Barry: But I don't I hate picket scores. I have yo, I have nobody's like sports whiz, bro. Like I'm not a better Jen: Seventeen to thirty eight. Shaun: 17 to who, Jen? Who are you picking as the winner? Barry: No, they usually it's usually Jen: Get it. Barry: a decent game. Jen: Y U T. Mm-hmm. Shaun: You see, okay. Barry: Thirt thirty eight seventeen, she says. Three touchdown blowout. Jen: Yeah. Shaun: 38 17. Okay. Barry: It's usually close or a blowout. Like it's not like just like a it was like a you know, ten point game. It's usually like somebody wins by like Jen: Well, haven't they had a lot of close calls too lately? Barry: it really just depends. So Shaun: Yeah. Jen: Mm. Shaun: I don't know. think OU might win this year. I think they might win. Barry: You thinking it? Think UT might be too confident because Oklahoma sucks or what? Shaun: Psych no, you see, of course, Jen: I was like, Yeah, okay, shocking. Shaun: you see, it's going to win. I like 3817. I don't know if that's going to happen. I don't know if it'll be that big of a spread. It will be great. Jen: Well, if they're playing like trash, then maybe. Shaun: They have been, but rivalry games. Yeah, they're different. Barry: Mm, but they always show up. I was gonna say it's this is a rivalry game, so they all show up. Jen: That's true. Barry: Probably. Shaun: I don't know. Barry: We'll see though. I don't know. Shaun: Maybe maybe like. I really don't want to say a score either because then I'm going to get like six in my stomach watching the game. I'll say like. Yeah. Barry: That's what I was like, I'm not good at picking scores, bro. I'm not good at that. But yeah, I would go with UT. That would be my gut. Jen: Ha ha! Seventeen thirty eight. Shaun: Yeah, I'll take you to. Barry: They are battle tested a little bit with Ohio State and Tennessee Shaun: Yeah. Barry: was a good one for them, I think. Kind of a r a r little reality check that SEC is tough. So don't overlook anybody. Yeah. Shaun: The rest of the schedule is tough this year. mean, OU and A&M are like the only teams that aren't really playing great right now. But I mean, they're both rivalry games. Barry: Yeah, yeah, that's true. But again, like you said in Marvel games, it don't really matter. So people show up for those regardless, usually. But good luck to you, sir. You know I'll be messing with you no matter what happens. So just wait. Can't w can't wait for that. Shaun: I'm probably going to turn my phone off. Not going to lie. After that, after that Tennessee game, I'm Jen: Do not disturb. Shaun: probably going to turn my phone off. And maybe I'll just block you. I'll block you for a couple of hours. I'll block you in the OU fans for a couple Jen: Yeah. Barry: Hey. Just turn me off for a couple hours. Jen's a ghosts. Shaun: of hours. I'm a ghost ghost ghost ghost. All right, let's get out here because Jen's phone or camera is about to go crazy. Barry: Don't forget the QR code, y'all. Don't Jen: I prefer porcelain princess. Thank you. Barry: forget the QR code. Shaun: Yes, don't get don't forget the QR code is right here for you. Visit our website, www.baldenoughtosayit.com for all of our listeners who always come back. Thank you so much. We love you. We appreciate you for supporting us for everyone. Also, don't forget on our website, you can get your bald enough to say at Merch. You can go in there. You can order all kinds of different things. Shirts, banners, cups, mugs, fanny packs. We talked about those one time stickers. So all those different things you can get. Coasters, got one right here too. All kinds of different stuff. So make sure that you Barry: Socks, pillows, all kinds of stuff. Jen: A Shaun: go in there, copy some merch as well. And we will see you next time for episode number 20. Until then, peace, Jen: Bye. Shaun: bye. Barry: Peace out, y'all.