Latest / Man in America Podcast / Pam Bondi Wants the DEATH PENALTY—But Was Mangione FRAMED? The Evidence Will SHOCK You

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Pam Bondi Wants the DEATH PENALTY—But Was Mangione FRAMED? The Evidence Will SHOCK You · Man in America Podcast

• 0:13
  Seth Holehouse: Welcome to Man in America, voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. So perhaps you recall the shooting of the UnitedHealthcare CEO that happened in New York City, last year. And we had the suspect, Luigi Mangione, that we had all the video footage. It was just like this nationwide manhunt.
• 0:36
  They found him. There were choruses of people that were praising him, making t shirts about him, that were, you know, young women that were obsessed with him and falling in love with him. There are people that were demonizing him. There's all this kinda crazy information spewing around his story. Yet, what's interesting is that just this week, we have AG Pam Bondi that has come out and said that the basically, she's calling for the death penalty.
• 1:04
  Right? So AG Pam Bondi directs federal prosecutors to seek death penalty for Luigi Mangione. And in the article, she states, that Mangione's murder of Brian Thompson, an innocent man and father of two young children, was a premeditated cold blooded assassination that shocked America. Yet according to my guest today, my good friend Brian O'Shea, who is a seasoned investigator PI, he worked in military intelligence. The guy knows what he's talking about when it comes to, you know, murder cases and whether someone's guilty or not.
• 1:36
  Well, for one, is that, Mangione hasn't even had his trial yet. So it's very peculiar that Bondi would come out with a statement like that publicly saying this guy is a cold blooded assassin, you know, in in her own words, basically. Yet, he hasn't gone to trial, and as we'll be going through in in my discussion with Brian today, there are massive holes in the evidence for the entire story. It just doesn't add up. And so when you look at the bigger picture of this and say, okay.
• 2:08
  You have this very wealthy corporation, UnitedHealthcare. You have what's interesting is that they're they were under criminal investigation. Some of their top brass within the corporation were under criminal investigation. Makes you think, okay. Was Brian gonna be a whistleblower?
• 2:23
  Was, he gonna cost some people millions of dollars? Is it was it actually Mangini? Or again, according to the evidence that, you know, that Brian puts forth in today's show, he doesn't even think that Manginio was in New York at the time of the of the murder, which is even more strange. So as usual, you know, I would take this with either myself or a a guest today as we have and just try to pick everything apart and say, okay. Well, that doesn't make sense.
• 2:49
  This doesn't make sense. What do you think? Here's what I think, and here's some theories. But what I can say, though, is that the whole situation just smells like foul play, like, from a mile away. So, anyway, we'll be digging into all this and more on today's show, so please enjoy the interview.
• 3:06
  Mister Brian O'Shea, it's good to have you back on, man. It's been way too long, but great to have you here. So thank you.
• 3:14
  Todd Callender: It's always great to be back. I haven't seen you in a in a little bit. The last time we we talked was in Brooklyn.
• 3:19
  Seth Holehouse: That's true, actually. Yeah. It was it was I gotta meet finally meet you and your wife, Naomi, in person and, which was it was great, actually. And and I gotta meet some other people that were involved in the Pfizer papers, and, yeah, it was wonderful. And so well, here we are, you know, going back to a a New York specific story, and what's interesting so we're you know, as we you know, I introduced in the in the intro there, we're, you know, gonna be diving into the Luigi Mangione case.
• 3:45
  And but what's interesting is just that we this just popped up as news so that, AG Pam Bondi directs federal prosecutors to seek death penalty for Luigi Mangione. So, you know, '36 or 26 year old was charged with fatally shooting the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, in New York City last year. Of course, most people remember this case. Some people remember it in a very odd way. There's these, you know, you know, huge fans of this guy, and it's but similar to, you know, going digging into the JFK files, there's a lot of weird stuff going on here with this assassination, and you with an investigative background to to kinda put it, you know, kinda broadly, but you've uncovered a lot of really, really interesting anomalies and things that make you think that something isn't right here.
• 4:35
  So before we jump into his particular story, why don't you just give, you know, the audience just a a brief background of yourself and your specialty? Because I think if there's anyone that I know that I'd say, hey. This guy is the guy that's a good investigator, it would be you. So start there, and then we'll dive into the case.
• 4:53
  Todd Callender: Sure. Well, I did work as a private investigator for more than a decade, mainly in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Prior to that, was in the US military special forces intelligence detachment doing human and all of intelligence analysis the teams on the ground, with the teams on the ground. And then after that, I went into the intelligence community. This was after nineeleven where we were essentially hunting terrorists.
• 5:21
  I decided to get out of that, went into private intelligence. And along the way, private investigations license or private detective license in the Commonwealth of Virginia. And to be honest with you, Seth, I got it because I thought it was kind of cool and kitschy. It'd be cool to break that out and say, hey. I'm a private detective.
• 5:39
  I never actually meant to do any work with it, but someone hired me. They the money was great, and it was nice to get outside and, you know, get out of the intel community for a little bit and actually say who I really was instead of some fake name. That aside, that's a different story. I ended up working and getting hired by several law firms throughout the years to work with the defense teams or defense counsel defending people accused of murder. And what I noticed when I was doing that work were a couple of things.
• 6:14
  It's a lot of stuff to go through. As a defense team, you have to go through every single affidavit that every single person on the scene has to submit. You have to go through with a fine tooth comb of every single statement the police make and every piece of evidence. You're looking for any crack in their case because goal is, or the mission, the deliverable is you're it's not about whether the person is guilty or innocent. That will the facts will decide that.
• 6:49
  The jury will decide that. You're trying to give the best possible defense under our system of law. And that's where a lot of people get confused about the relationship with the defense lawyer and the accused. You know, in many cases, they it's obviously it's obvious the person did it to most people. They're like, how can this monster defend him?
• 7:12
  Well, that's their job. Guilty or innocent, everyone gets a presumption of innocence, and they're supposed to have a fair trial and be found beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty. So that led me to this case which as interesting and curious as the stuff is that I found for me it's it's par for the course. They're always sloppy cases. And as John Grisham said, any prosecutorial case that starts off with a hunch ends in the prosecution's disaster.
• 7:46
  Seth Holehouse: Interesting. So especially if the hunch is one of the public, right, where in the in the court of the public, then you have, again, the the media framing people automatically draw you know, jumping to conclusions. But even on social media on this, what is this killer doing? And and and you have this huge momentum, especially behind cases like this. And so diving into Luigi's specific case, what I guess, as you start uncovering things, what were some of the anomalies and and and where the has the information taken you?
• 8:22
  Todd Callender: Well, I I would say the first anomaly I picked up on was on December 4 when the 911 call ended up on the news before they knew who this was. They said looking for a white male in a cream or light green colored coat with black gloves. And clearly, it's all over the news. The shooter has no gloves, which is odd. And it's clearly a very black coat in every photo we saw.
• 8:51
  So I found that was really strange right away. But I didn't think too much of it because I was like, that's pretty wild. This guy just got assassinated. So watching the video before we knew anything, the other thing that stuck out at me was this guy steps out. The shooter steps out into right into the camera view from behind that SUV that you're picturing there.
• 9:17
  Seth Holehouse: Because obviously there's no gloves.
• 9:18
  Todd Callender: If he wanted to No gloves. Wear black gloves. So the nine one one call described what you see there on the right. That's Luigi Magione. However, that picture didn't come out till thirty six hours later, twenty four hours later.
• 9:34
  That picture's from November 24 at a hostel 50 streets away. Alls we knew on December 4 was the left side picture, the gray backpack, the now infamous gray backpack. But why didn't the shooter just shoot him from between the vehicles? Why step out directly into the camera view? Another thing that stuck out was brian thompson was reportedly going to a conference that was to occur at 08:00 at that hotel right there.
• 10:04
  The midtown hotel on 50 Fourth. Except when you watch the video, he's clearly walking by the entrance, not into the entrance. He's carrying no papers, no briefcase, no overcoat. It's November. He had actually been staying at a hotel down the street about a block away.
• 10:20
  And he just looks like he's walking by the hotel. It doesn't look like he's making any move to go into the hotel. And then this person steps out but doesn't step out until the SUV, two SUVs up, steps on its brake lights and holds those brake lights. Now this is it could be nothing, but here's the problem. How would the shooter know that Brian Thompson got to was getting to the Hilton an hour and sixteen minutes before 08:00.
• 10:53
  Now if he staked it out all night, sure. But according to the official federal complaint, he did not the shooter did not arrive at that location, until about an hour before this happened.
• 11:08
  Seth Holehouse: And so even, so a few questions I have. So you're right. You can see that he it's not like he's walking out of the the particular hotel. He's just walking on the street, and then Mangione supposedly, allegedly, whoever that that character is there, walks up behind him. Now, it looks like he's using some sort of suppressed nine millimeter or handgun, but it also I remember seeing a lot of discussion about how how it fired, and it looked like it jammed or something, and people were saying, oh, if it was a, like, a homemade suppressor, this would happen.
• 11:41
  Or so are there any details you have on that? Because you can see from the video and and the handling of the gun that he he didn't come across as someone that was a trained assassin. Right? A trained assassin, you'd never even seen him in the video. He'd already know where the videos were.
• 11:56
  He'd be you know, he he he'd probably be between like you mentioned, between the cars. Like, it'd be very different. So what do you make of that information?
• 12:04
  Todd Callender: Well, I mean, so we do know a lot now. I mean, according to so Flash ads of December 9, and they pick up Luigi Mangione who was identified as the shooter from the hostel picture. That's how we have the picture you showed, was from the hostel, which you say that ten days earlier in New York City during the tree lighting ceremony. Busiest time of the year. But that that's a that's a story for another time.
• 12:31
  We do know according to the gun in question, which was supposedly found with Luigi Mangione three hundred miles away when he fled New York on a bus and decided to keep the murder weapon for some reason. They have it as a, a ghost a a three d printed gun, or as they say, ghost gun, and a homemade, three d printed, I guess, ghost suppressor. And so that that could explain the jamming. There's just not enough, gas being chambered back to to push that slide back. We both shoot.
• 13:04
  You know what I'm talking about? But I I think we focus sometimes too much on the type of weapon and not on the shooter. So what I see there and having been in lots of combat, this person shooting Brian Thompson does not seem nervous, does not seem like the adrenaline is even pumping. They very methodically had a jam rechamber, had a jam rechamber almost as if they expected it. So they practiced, but there's no hesitation.
• 13:37
  And that's the key thing. This is a person who's killed someone before. So when people say not a professional assassin, well, professional just means they get paid. But a cold blooded assassin? Absolutely.
• 13:52
  Like this, this person could have been kicking a can down the road. They did not even sprint after that third shot. They went checked and then kind of trotted across the street and made made their escape. So when I see the that's the first thing that stuck out at me was this, you know, jam, chamber, jam, chamber, no rushing, no freaking out, anything like that. That I I think a first time shooter normally has.
• 14:21
  And what I've seen is even enemy soldiers who've never been in combat can't even shoot straight, let alone clear a jam. So to me, that looks like somebody who's done this before.
• 14:32
  Seth Holehouse: And so there's also a lot of suspicious information surrounding him being recognized. Right? So the story right? So okay. So he shoots this guy, gets on a bus.
• 14:45
  He's 300 miles away. He's got the same outfit, the same backpack, the supposedly the gun, right, still in
• 14:52
  Todd Callender: Not that not the same backpack. Not the same backpack.
• 14:55
  Seth Holehouse: So what so okay. So what happened with the with the evidence that led up to the it was McDonald's. Right? Someone recognized him at McDonald's. Is that how he
• 15:02
  Todd Callender: Yeah. Caught. And was also strange to me.
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• 16:24
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• 16:29
  Todd Callender: Well, it's all strange because what ended up happening was the so the first let's talk about the backpack. So he has the gray backpack. And the police find they they do this big search in Central Park and, of course, they find the gray backpack. Never mind that all the videos of this guy fleeing on an ebike, he always has the gray backpack, but he somehow tossed it. I guess, got another gray backpack uptown.
• 16:57
  And then so they have him fleeing on the ebike, tossing the gray backpack, and then that's it. K. So then to the hostel, that's suspicious because all you saw all we saw of the shooter on December 4 was what you saw in the shooting video, which you never see his face. And then there was a Starbucks video that went out where you kind of have a grainy image of just the slit of someone's eyes over a mask in a black jacket, not a green one or a cream one. And that's it.
• 17:31
  That's all we have. And somehow a worker at the high hostel on 100 Fourth in Amsterdam in New York said, Oh, yes, that guy there, I think he stayed here, ten days ago during the busiest season in New York. And if you've been in New York in the winter, I know you have. That's the last time we saw each other. Every young man is wearing a mask and a hoodie.
• 17:56
  It's like a city of ninjas and every delivery person is on an e bike with a mask and a hoodie. That's what everyone wears. That's the uniform in New York. I even went out after I saw you the last time. I took my daughter out because she is a 28 year old and she's in Brooklyn and they're all about this case.
• 18:15
  So I said, find me a guy in a black mask, find me a white guy in a black mask and a hoodie. And we counted 27 in less than five minutes. And so that that right there seems suspicious that that hostile worker who's working a night shift says this guy is that guy from ten days before. And then magically within twenty four hours, have this image of Luigi Mangione. Now here's where it gets crazy.
• 18:44
  We had an image of him at the hostel. Then we had an image of Luigi Mangione. And then we had an image of Luigi Mangione walking up to getting into and looking right into the camera of a cab. Now prior to the twenty fifth, to the fifth, the police weren't saying anything about a cab. They actually laid out the whole timeline.
• 19:07
  He fled through Central Park and then he went beyond the hostel, beyond one hundred fourth. And then now see they had pictures of him in a cab so that somehow was shoved into the story. Know it's just this case is like I call it the Lego case. You keep adding things on every time there's a gap but why don't we have pictures of Luigi Mangione at the hostel on the day of the shooting? It's a manhunt.
• 19:36
  You would think that'd be important to put that information out. And why do we only have two pictures of him getting into a cab on a sunny day? Mind you, it was raining on the fourth, but the cab pictures are sunny and the sun is quite high in the sky and the timelines are cropped out of those pictures. Now, I'm not saying people did it on purpose, but I can say from my past cases, the police are very It's interesting. They need the public for a manhunt, but they're also very truculent with the public when it comes to actually sharing any useful information.
• 20:10
  And also, they're that way with the defense. I can guarantee you any video that the defense got probably didn't play and they had to re request it. They probably got the worst photocopies of the affidavits where they have to re request those. They're it's it's just the game that's played. So in in summary, every time, you know, they keep building this case, New York County, and this is Alvin Bragg's office, they keep building this case and building this case and new evidence keeps adding in.
• 20:41
  Like the bullets with, you know, the three words on them. You deny, defend, depose. Where do you remember that part of this case?
• 20:49
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. I do.
• 20:51
  Todd Callender: And they're like, first, said he wrote these words are written on nine millimeter shell casings. Now you could write with a Sharpie at a nine millimeter case, you know, casings, and good luck keeping that on through the shooting process because it'll rub right off. It's polished brass. Well, then it became engraved. Sell t
• 21:13
  Seth Holehouse: shirts. Funny enough.
• 21:16
  Todd Callender: Oh, there's so much out there. There's comic book. There's there's you know, we should get to that in a minute. Yeah. There's a comic book.
• 21:24
  There's jingles. So anyways, so if you're making a statement, why would you write it on these tiny little why not just put a sign on the guy? I mean, obviously, the shooter was not in a hurry. Why not just spray paint it on the wall? I mean, no one was coming out.
• 21:41
  No one's getting out of New York to stop you. And so that that's just seemed really weird to me. Like, who would do that? And then finally, they also said there was a Starbucks cup found at the scene. And then that later, once there was defense lawyers involved, it became there was a Starbucks cup found with his DNA in the area of where he was shot, of the brian thompson was shot.
• 22:08
  And these are the little nuances you got to pay attention to. These little details you have to pay attention to as a defense team is the slight shift in the story because normally what will happen is there is a hunch, as I said in the beginning. And there's always that there's always that detective. There's always that police detective that he's got it all figured out until he doesn't. But they get married and then then that goes to the prosecution.
• 22:36
  The prosecution and the police detective team, they always stay married to their stories. Their, you know, their their chain of events and they rarely stray from them even in the face of damning evidence to the contrary. And that's the part that got me about this case is when I heard the way the police were talking, things just didn't make sense. They didn't match up. Why would he get in a cab if he's on an ebike?
• 23:02
  It's faster in New York, as you know. And why would he write microscopic little words on microscopic little bullet casings? Why would he you know, if he wants to make a statement, why did he use a suppressor and do it before the sun came up? There's so many things going on here. Why why did these shooters stop at the Starbucks to get a snack on his way to a shooting with only ten, fifteen minutes to spare when Brian Thompson would be walking by at 06:44 in the morning, a full hour and sixteen minutes before the conference started.
• 23:42
  And as you saw in the video, not walking into the Hilton, walking by the Hilton. And they get this guy and this is the guy and then magically mangione gets picked up in Mcdonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania 2 Hundred I think 84 miles away. But first, he went to Philadelphia on the bus according to the police, and then went west, even though there's a manhunt for him. And, oh, by the way, Seth, they supposedly lost him at the George Washington Bridge bus terminal, which since nineeleven is the most monitored bus station in the country and even has a police substation in it. So those kinds of things there.
• 24:24
  Why didn't you if you were so worried, why didn't you shut down Central Park that day? Why didn't you just shut down the bus stations? You could do all these things. They have that power since 09:11. Why didn't they do these things?
• 24:36
  Why did he go supposedly to Pennsylvania? Why would you go to another population center? And by the way, we have no images of them in Pennsylvania or on the bus, which all have cameras. Well, I mean, it says and then why Altoona? So I have my theories on that, but I'm I'm still in the facts phase.
• 24:53
  I'm letting the facts lead me to the theories.
• 24:55
  Seth Holehouse: Yes. I'm already going to the theories. I'm thinking, okay. Well, if if this, then that, and and so I I almost wanna jump the gun and get to the theories, but I wanna just kinda finish up some of the facts before we get into some of the questions I have. Like, okay.
• 25:08
  Well, if it wasn't him, who was it? Why, like, you know, what's behind this? Like, there there's a lot of questions that that I have. It's kind of JFK. It's like, if it wasn't this lone gunman, then who was it?
• 25:19
  And what were their reasons for redoing this? There's so many other questions. But kinda getting back just to finish up the facts, you mentioned, McDonald's. Right? And that's always been, like, this kind of weird occurrence that this guy, what, spotted him sitting alone at McDonald's in Altoona.
• 25:37
  Can you walk us through, like, how he was caught? Because that there's all kinds of holes in that story as well. Right?
• 25:44
  Todd Callender: Yeah. There are. And so on December 9, it was announced, I think, at around 1PM that a person of interest had been arrested in Altoona, Pennsylvania after being spotted in McDonald's by an employee. And then it was a customer. Then it was we're not sure who it was.
• 26:04
  Then there's people on the Internet saying, hey, the person that called that in never got their $10,000 All sorts of things. But according to Tom Dickey, Esquire, who's Luigi Mangini's defense lawyer for the Pennsylvania charges, he's already petitioned for relief to get all of the evidence taken in that arrest thrown out. And in that arrest, you had the gun, a gun, sorry, the a three d printed gun, a three d printed suppressor, a silver laptop, a backpack, a zipper kind of like key, like coin purse that had Hawaii stuff on it because Mongione used to live in Hawaii, and a notebook. That's all that was on the arrest report. So that was it.
• 26:56
  And the police took his DNA. They gave him a snack apparently. And this is what Tom Dickey is arguing. The police didn't give him ace, did not present him with the sense that he was free to go at any time. They kind of blocked him in in the McDonald's.
• 27:13
  They offered him a snack. He took it. They they got the DNA from that snack, which he's not under arrest yet. They never read him his Miranda rights. They never offered him a lawyer.
• 27:24
  But here's the craziest part. I had a show about this the other day and thank God a police officer popped onto the chat. They never supposedly they never looked in the backpack until they got back to the police station. And I said, I've never been a police officer, but it seems to me you'd want to see what's in the backpack. It could be a bomb.
• 27:47
  It could be I don't know what was it? The stuff back in the day. Was like anthrax or something like that. It could be anything. It's also evidence.
• 27:56
  Potential evidence. So you have an incomplete complaint that the complaint is what's filled out when you get arrested. They say this person did this. Well, that was at 09:44, I think in the morning. Then it wasn't until about three I'm sorry, almost 06:00 at night.
• 28:16
  That's when we saw Luigi Maggioli being hauled out of the, you know, police police cruiser and then yelling at the cameras and saying the the American people aren't stupid. This is you know, he's Well, people like, oh, that shows he did. Look at that anger. Look at that anger. He's angry at the health care system.
• 28:34
  And as it turns out, he didn't even have a lawyer at that point. He didn't have a lawyer until after that hearing. That was the arraignment hearing. It also begs the question, what were they doing with him for six, seven hours? And when you look at the complaint, the complaint wasn't filled out until about an hour before that hearing.
• 28:56
  And in the complaint, it actually says needs to be photographed and fingerprinted. And DNA was not taken up to that point. So basically he was hauled in based on an officer saying, yeah, that's him. I mean, is really some, you know, Salem witch trial type stuff here. Like, that's the bad guy.
• 29:18
  Go get him. That shocked me when I saw on the official complaint in Altoona that he hadn't been fingerprinted at the time the report was filled out. And so then keep in mind too, there was no mention of a manifesto. There was no mention all that other stuff. And then there's a press conference in New York with Jessica Tisch, the police commissioner and Mayor Adams, where they list off a whole inventory of stuff he was arrested with.
• 29:51
  That was not on the original complaint that was filed at, like, five, I think three 03:54 in the afternoon. But all of a sudden, New York is listing off a whole inventory. Now flash ahead to 06:27 at nighttime. This whole indictment thing comes down for the arraignment with a very itemized list far bigger than the one that we saw at the complaint stage where they now they had the ghost. Now they had the manifesto on there and everything like that.
• 30:24
  It's almost like the, oh, and by the way, that was filled out at eighteen or 06:27 in the evening, three minutes before the arraignment. It's almost like they heard the press conference, you know, Altoona police. This, this is a theory. It's almost like they were listening to the press conference and they said, oh, well, we better make sure that's on. And then they, everything they said at the press conference all the way in Manhattan suddenly is part of the official record.
• 30:54
  Seth Holehouse: So okay. There's a handful of questions. I'm I'm kind of they're kind of going in. So if there's all this kind of poor evidence against him that we can't make sense of, yet he was still arrested with a silent suppressed ghost gun. Right?
• 31:18
  Which, like, if it wasn't him, hypothetically, like, if it was we have all this weird evidence to say that it was him. Yet, if it wasn't him, then you'd expect that the story would be they've you know, went back to his apartment and some other city, and they kicked the door down, and he's in there in his underwear watching a movie, eating some popcorn. Right? Yet, he was at a random McDonald's in Altoona where he's not from with a backpack and with a ghost print a three three d printed gun and a three d printed suppressor, right, in his backpack, which doesn't make sense to me because almost like like I'm I'm thinking, is this is he some sort of Manchurian candidate? Like, is is this is he is he some sort of MK Ultra guy?
• 32:05
  Does he have a history of being on Psychiatrix, and they've somehow, they've programmed him to carry this out, and something was sloppy. So they they had to kind of add some evidence. Like, it it doesn't make sense because it's one thing if you say again, you look at, like, Lee Harvey Oswald. It's like, okay. He's a lone shooter or the shooter in Butler.
• 32:24
  Right? Which there's so many holes in that story. Okay. Here's a single shooter that was not even accepted into the, like, high school shooting organization because he had a terrible shot, yet he was also the one laying prone and and taking headshots off of here, and and he has a history of, you know, tracking his geolocation that he had he was down by Langley, and there's all this other suspicious information. It's like, okay, that makes sense.
• 32:51
  Okay. They're they're setting him up as a patsy. But, like, with this, it'd be just say say they wanted to kill the guy, hypothetically Mhmm. And just get away with it. Like, it'd be a lot easier just to have a professional assassin go in there that knows how to not be detected, and and all the news story is is the UnitedHealthcare CEO is dead.
• 33:14
  He was caught by he was shot by some shooter, and the the shooter is at large, and there's in the story. Right? Like, okay. We're we're now looking for this guy. Maybe we'll never find him because it's New York City.
• 33:24
  It's so easy to disappear in New York City. So, like, how do you make how do you make sense of all this? As we're as we're starting to get into more of the the the theorizing about why why was it
• 33:35
  Todd Callender: done this way? And it's important to pursue what we in the biz used to call hypotheses. You know? So, you know, fact based hypotheses. But it look.
• 33:47
  In in in any investigation, you know, both from, you know, my I have a master's in criminal justice. So it's we go into detail of the criminology and victimology and conducting cases that way. You you have to look at both. Okay. So you look at the it's always better to look at the victimology first.
• 34:04
  Who is this person? Who would have motive to shoot him? You you rule out right away a mugging because they didn't stop to take his wallet or anything. But you you basically you know, who who would want him dead? And the original motive that was touted out by the police and their Muppets at the legacy media was he was angry at UnitedHealthcare because they must have denied a claim, something like that.
• 34:31
  As it turns out, UnitedHealthcare came out and said he's never been a customer of ours. Then it turns out this kid is rich and his parents are technically in the health care industry. They own a mat, like a dozen nursing homes throughout Northern Maryland and golf courses and everything. They're they're very rich. Then the other thing that came out was from sadly and embarrassingly from conservatives saying, oh, well, he's a crazy lunatic lefty and he's trying to make a point, you know, by killing the United Health.
• 35:09
  And I was really sad to see people that we know just jumping onto the non presumption of innocence bandwagon saying the reason he did is because the left hates private industry and capitalism. Well here's the problem with that. His brothers are republican. His cousins are republican delegate in Baltimore And I've gone through every piece of social media available posted by Luigi Magione. I downloaded it the day his name came out because I knew it get messed with.
• 35:40
  There's no mention. I I controlled everything. There's no mention of Trump. There's no mention of Biden. There's no mention of elections.
• 35:50
  But there's also no mention of United Healthcare, Manhattan, Hilton, guns, none of it. Really, he's kind of a really kind of in his head type of guy the way he talks. It sounds like he's a bit of a, you know, overwhelmed kind of genius type kid where he's talking about these very interesting kind of topics about like, well, you know, are people losing their selves to social media and maybe I need to bump off of this. So, but very, very highly educated, very smart. He was valedictorian, know, in his private school in Maryland and one of the most exalted schools out there.
• 36:32
  Then he went to, he went on to get a computer like an engineering degree where he was building AI avatars and video games and mainly hanging out with his his, you know, buddies. He was dedicated to fitness, but he's very smart, very articulate, and very, very good writer, which is I was shocked when I, read the quote unquote manifesto, which is like 350 words because it sounds like it's written by someone without an education or a high school education. Like, you you referring, like, the cops and, you know, blah blah. It it's there's nothing really in the manifesto. Like, the manifesto doesn't say, I killed him or I have to do this.
• 37:16
  But it sounds like, I don't know. I mean, do you want a theory? But don't don't hold me to it. Think all that stuff was planted on him. I'll just say it.
• 37:24
  Based on my deep research of this, I think they planted it. I think there was a lot of pressure on New York to have this suspect go down. And as I've seen, and I interviewed Janine Eunice as well, who used to be a public defender in New York and a defense lawyer. I had her on the show. Prosecutors never give up on their original hunch no matter what.
• 37:51
  So I think you're going you know, someone's telling Alvin Bragg, you're going to make this case work no matter what. And sadly now we have ham bondi who I respect greatly saying seek the death penalty. Well there hasn't even been a trial yet. They keep delaying the trial. You would think if there were these mounds of evidence there'd be a trial by now.
• 38:14
  The trial got delayed by the defense at first. It just got delayed again. I don't even think honestly that the parties, there's three of them, the federal, Pennsylvania, and, New York County. I don't even think they can put him in New York in December. And I can dive into that if you want me to.
• 38:36
  Seth Holehouse: So so interesting. You think they can't even put him there. So you think okay. So just kinda piece me. Again, these are hypotheses.
• 38:44
  Right? They're just kind of, which which is I mean, that's the the world I live in. Right? Because if if you're trying to, you know, kind of understand the motives of the deep state, you don't go find some document that was published. Right?
• 38:55
  Actually, you do. If you go look at event two zero one or you can see that they publish a lot, but a lot of it is speculation. And you ask, okay, what would be the motive here? And and and as you get more into how these Yeah.
• 39:05
  Todd Callender: Like a profound observation.
• 39:07
  Seth Holehouse: Exactly. And so it's like with this, so you think that he I mean, do you think that he was just happened to be at some McDonald's and someone thought that was him or or maybe someone was supposed to think that it was him, and they go and they arrest him. They plant all this evidence on him, and then now he's he's kind of like, he's the guy.
• 39:34
  Todd Callender: Yeah. I mean, that and that happens more often than you think, and it's scary. Like, if I could give advice to every person in America, your rainy day fund should be for your criminal defense lawyer because God help you if you have to use a public defender. And it the police and I'll get back to your question in a second. But the I I won't say the police, but I would say the system, the criminal the system under a prosecutor's office, once they tend to do this all the time, once a case is made public and it's a sensational case like this one, they just dive right in and they will they will fit that circle into a square no matter what.
• 40:13
  And that's based on my experience. So what I think happened here is, well, I'm sorry. What I can't figure out is why him, but anyways, what I think happened here was they got a face that kinda they got a guy on a camera from the hostel that kind of meets a description. Or they knew they wanted for some reason, I can't figure out to get Mongione on this because they did describe his coat before anyone even knew what his face looked like on the 911 call. But whatever the reason, once they had that guy, they said, you know, rest him.
• 40:52
  And then I think there was that kind of, you know, oh, no moment when they realized not only is he super wealthy and his parents are gonna lawyer up to the nth degree, but I this doesn't look like the guy. And it happens all the time. But once it's public, you're really you're really in a a world of hurt if you're the suspect or the the person of interest because they're they're going to trial and they're going to do it all the time. Even the cases that I helped as a private investigator get people off the hook for, we had mountains of evidence to show this is not the person. There's no DNA.
• 41:33
  This person was in a different state. The key witness lied to the grand jury. The key your key witness was carrying a knife the night the guy she was out with got stabbed in the heart. And she has history of stabbing. I mean, that's an actual case.
• 41:48
  That was the last case I worked on. The person of interest still sat in jail for a year, and he still had to go to a second trial because we slapped them around in the first one. It was a laughing stock. They still didn't tap out. And that's the crazy part.
• 42:05
  By tap out, I mean, just put your hands up in the air and say, you know what? Maybe we screwed up. So when I asked Janine, the defense lawyer, said, is that common? I mean, I've never worked a case in New York before. Is that have you seen that a lot?
• 42:17
  She said, in all my time as a defense lawyer and a public defender, she said, I've never seen a prosecutor say I got it wrong.
• 42:28
  Seth Holehouse: Well, because their reputation becomes a lot at that point. Right? If if they have the whole nation believing something, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, we we we kinda screwed up, and he's actually innocent. So but it sounds like That's
• 42:41
  Todd Callender: good point.
• 42:42
  Seth Holehouse: So it sounds like he has a wealthy family. So he he's got a good defense attorney, I'm guessing. Probably one of the best. Right?
• 42:49
  Todd Callender: His Do you know who his defense attorney is?
• 42:51
  Seth Holehouse: No.
• 42:52
  Todd Callender: She's she's married to p Diddy's defense attorney.
• 42:56
  Seth Holehouse: That's okay. That's interesting. Do you now, again, hypothesizing here, do you see any connection there? I mean, because this is the thing is that it's like, you know, I I I like spy thrillers, and like as I mentioned before we start recording right now, my wife and I are watching Person of Interest. Great, great series, Jim's Jim Caviezel.
• 43:17
  I I highly recommend it. You know, it's not not that woke. It's a little bit in there, but Mhmm. Again, it's it's good. But what you see though in that, and what we've you tend to believe in is through Hollywood is that you start tracing these things up, and it's like, oh, wow.
• 43:31
  It happens to be that this this guy was working for the Clintons, but then his wife was also the lead counsel representing this other, you know, Epstein, and you you you start, you know, drawing these circles. So as you've traced things up, do do you find anything suspicious at that level? America is under siege. You've seen the headlines. Terror attacks, chaos, and whispers of coordinated threats.
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• 45:41
  Todd Callender: I I don't, and I'll tell you why. Because and I know a lot of people went there, and it's, you know, something I looked into, but it's it's neither here nor there for this case. It doesn't matter how he knows her. But it you know that she was most likely referred to him and his family by Tom Dickey, his Pennsylvania lawyer, because that guy happens to be one of the best defense lawyers in the country for many years running. So you're in a case like this.
• 46:11
  You know, I would want, you know, this firm here that represents people who seem undefendable because obviously they know what they're doing and they're bold enough to do it. But most likely in cases and what I've always seen is if there's a multistate case or, you know, multi jurisdictional case, if you're happy with your defense lawyer and your defense lawyer says, hey, you know what? Let me I know who you need for this. I know the perfect person. You're going to take his advice if you have a good lawyer.
• 46:41
  So or her advice. So that's what I think happened there. I don't know. The family's not talking. I do know the family's very prominent in Maryland.
• 46:51
  And, I mean, I think it's just the best lawyer that they could get. They're probably lucky they got him. Okay. Back on your, the reputation of the prosecutor. Let's let's think about that.
• 47:06
  The night before December 4, on December 3, Tisch and Alvin Bragg commissioner Tisch and Alvin Bragg had a big press conference about record level low crime in New York because you know what that that week was? That was the tree lighting ceremony just a hundred yards away. Okay? And they had the big signs up. Plus, commissioner Tisch had just been sworn in on November 20.
• 47:31
  So she has a lot of pressure. Alvin Bragg, why would he have pressure? Oh, yeah. That's right. Because he literally dropped the ball on every case he's had this past year.
• 47:41
  So, yes, he got the indictments on Donald Trump, but they weren't They're indictments of things that I'm pretty sure weren't even crimes, and there was no sentencing. And then he had, Daniel Penny who won his case. So now you have all this pressure on Alvin Bragg. Like, you know, we need we need a scalp on this one, man. And it's like, I think that's what happened is he's he's got it.
• 48:06
  It's perfect. And then there's that, oh, no moment. Oh, no. He's rich. Oh, no.
• 48:11
  He's got her as a lawyer. Oh, man. You know? It's it's just there's so much about this case that doesn't make sense. Plus, like I said, we know he went to Philadelphia because I was in the Altoona press conference.
• 48:23
  We know he was heading to Pittsburgh because I was in the press conference. So he why was it now tuna? Here here's my theory of the case for if I was Mongeoni. I believe, like many people, used to live in pretty close to where he lives in Towson, Maryland. I believe, like, half the East Coast, he was heading up to New York for the holidays, go enjoy some holidays.
• 48:48
  And on his way up, he found out that he his face, it was the subject of a manhunt. So on his way up, I think at around Philadelphia, he veered west and said, I'm going all the way to Pittsburgh and then hopped out probably because he was tired on a bus at a small town. It happened to be Altoona. I've already checked Altoona for any Mangione's, any family connections. I can't find them.
• 49:16
  I don't that's why I think he never was in New York. And he was definitely there in November, but December 4, I think he was heading back up probably for the tree lighting. And then he sees his face and he's like oh hell no that was that's the only way you can explain at this point with the evidence that we the public have why he would go through Pennsylvania.
• 49:40
  Seth Holehouse: So you
• 49:41
  Todd Callender: go through Pennsylvania.
• 49:43
  Seth Holehouse: Okay. So so so maybe that there wasn't some grand conspiracy to frame him, like, from the get go. It was more so this murder happens high, you know, high, you know, high super powerful CEO of a major company. You know, a company that you know, you mentioned earlier how a lot of conservatives were saying all that maybe this is a leftist thing going against. But, actually, I would say that of all the different people, like, I would say someone probably on the far, far right that's anti big pharma, anti you know, like, it it like, the roles have really kinda switched.
• 50:17
  Whereas now it seems that a lot more of the left is pro big pharma and pro big corporation. It's not like Occupy Wall Street. Right? It's it's it's inverse now. We're now the conservatives are the ones that hate the big corporations and are going back to, you know, you know, small businesses and everything.
• 50:35
  It's it's so so weird stuff happening there. But so basically, that someone else commits a murder, and this this is the guy that they're able just to kinda pin it on because, again, reputation is is is key with this. And if this murder of a very hope high profile individual goes unsolved and, you know, the NYPD can't catch them, and it makes it makes the whole police force and the whole justice system in New York look kinda bad if they can't solve this. So but that that kinda okay. Then kinda going into some other different areas of thought here.
• 51:11
  Who do you think did murder the CEO? And why do you do you think there's any motive there? I mean, and again, that's getting into really much more hypothesis because it's it's really outside the outside the realm of of Luigi himself.
• 51:24
  Todd Callender: There's a motive.
• 51:25
  Seth Holehouse: What do you think?
• 51:26
  Todd Callender: So there was a case with Andrew Witty, who's the top CEO, the CEO in charge of the finance and investment section of UnitedHealthcare and Brian Thompson. So what that was is about a year earlier, they were already under investigation by the Feds for, like, kind of illicit type of different activities in business, you know, kind of strong arming smaller companies to get absorbed by UnitedHealthcare. There's a myriad of things. So the DOJ had gone to Andrew Witty and Brian Thompson, this other gentleman, and said, hey, just so you know, we're going public with this investigation. Come next week, you might.
• 52:12
  This will give you time to let your shareholders know that an investigation is underway, which they have to do. That's their fiduciary responsibility. It's also illegal for them not to tell their shareholders. They didn't do that. They made big trades first, made tons of money.
• 52:30
  Brian Thompson made in the area of 15,000,000. Andrew Witty made the other guy made 118,000,000. Andrew Witty, it's not disclosed how much he made, but it probably is far more than Brian Thompson's fifteen million. Well, then they got caught. And so now they're under investigation for insider trading because insider information, they traded on it.
• 52:54
  That inside information was the Fed saying, Hey, we're going to go public. So if when I see let's go back to December 4. That case is ongoing. Now all of a sudden, you're let's say you're the investigators at the federal level for this insider trader case. Who are you gonna try to get to spill the beans?
• 53:16
  It's not gonna be the guy that made $1.18. It's not gonna be sir Andrew Witty who probably made far more and is protected from on high. But the guy who made 15,000,000 from, you know, kinda pulled himself up by the bootstraps, put himself through college, kind of a wholesome guy, has family values. That's probably going to be your guy that you're going try to get to be your whistleblower. So you go to December 4, the morning early way before this 08:00 conference that no one knew about until, around the conference, he's clearly to me just having thousands of hours of surveillance of watching people through the lens and sometimes watching the same people for three months straight from a hotel room across the way.
• 53:59
  You really get to know how people walk when they're heading to a meeting or going to meet go on a date, everything. That looks like a guy who's heading to a meeting prior to the conference with someone else and not at the Hilton, but near the Hilton. That's what that looks like to me. Because why else when they have a briefcase presentation materials and overcoat? And look, I'm a little trunky like Brian Thompson was.
• 54:25
  I love the winter because the overcoat I find very slimming. And so it's just and it's also like 25 degrees, you know? So it it that looked to me like a guy who was going to meet with someone quickly, probably get back to his hotel, get his materials, get over to the conference because he was not going into that Hilton. My guess is my my theory is that Brian Thompson was a whistleblower. And there's only, you know, there's only really one person who would have a motivation to really kill.
• 54:58
  And that would be someone who stands to lose their freedom and hundreds of millions of dollars. And I would say profit and greed trump ideology every time. So, yeah, I hate UnitedHealthcare. But if this guy over here is gonna lose a, you know, a hundred and $20,000,000, he's probably gonna be more motivated to kill the person than I am. I I might have some hesitation.
• 55:21
  You see what I mean?
• 55:22
  Seth Holehouse: Oh, may I mean, to me, that makes way more sense than some young, smart guy for wealthy family that maybe has some, you know, a bone to pick with the health care industry. Okay. There there's something. Right? Okay.
• 55:36
  But when you look at, was this guy gonna be a whistleblower? Was this guy gonna be the the the crack in the entire fraudulent structure of of criminality that led to individuals making potentially tens or hundreds of millions of dollars? It's really easy to say, you know, look, I I've never priced out hitmen. Right? But I I've seen a lot of different news stories about this, and it's sometimes it's like a couple thousand dollars.
• 56:00
  It's like, oh, this what this woman was paid. She got caught hiring a hitman for $5,000 to kill her husband. So now, obviously, this is a high profile case, and it's not you're not gonna find some
• 56:10
  Todd Callender: Right.
• 56:10
  Seth Holehouse: Local guy that's, you know you know, sitting out in front of the Home Depot looking for work. So maybe they're doing a different approach, but when you're talking that amount of money and and those that kind of powerful those kinds of powerful people, To me, that makes the most sense of this entire story is that this guy was gonna be a whistleblower, and we see it, like, all the time. And look at look at the handful handful of Boeing employees that come out as whistleblowers. Right? Look at the OpenAI.
• 56:35
  Todd Callender: That's right.
• 56:36
  Seth Holehouse: And and the, you know, the the
• 56:38
  Todd Callender: Yes. That's right. Yes.
• 56:39
  Seth Holehouse: Tucker interviewed, I think his mother, right, that was gonna be a whistleblower. Like, when when you're threatening these multimillion, multibillion dollar corporations and and what they're doing, it's like that's the line you don't cross. And if you're gonna be a whistleblower for something like that, you better have private security twenty four hours a day everywhere you go because Mhmm. That's just like, that's it. Right?
• 57:03
  Whistleblowers don't do well Yeah. Unfortunately.
• 57:07
  Todd Callender: They don't. And and where was his private security? I've heard a dozen interviews. Unfortunately, one of the interviews was from Arrow Security in New York who was providing security of the illegal alien hotels and and muscling journalists out. So I don't really trust them.
• 57:22
  My words, not Seth Whole House's words. But the, you know, let's think about the gloves. I mean, I think around seven or 08:00 when I came into my own assassin mentality, I I knew if I was ever an assassin, I'd probably wear gloves every time because every freaking movie and cop show, they wear gloves. But in November, when you'd want gloves and you're going to kill someone, the shooter decides not to wear gloves almost as if that sets up a great alibi for the police of how they found fingerprints. And he steps directly into the spotlight.
• 57:59
  Directly into it. He could have easily shot that guy as he passed by that gap in those two cars easily and not even be seen on camera. And then walks and make sure he's finished off, calmly, you know, recirc you know, clearing those those those rounds. And then Trots doesn't run, doesn't sprint Trots across the way. And by the way, Seth, according to the official federal complaint he got from that morning, he got from the hostel at 10 Fourth in Amsterdam to the area of 50 Fourth And Sixth in six minutes by bike.
• 58:41
  Seth Holehouse: Yeah. Doesn't happen. Like, I I lived in New York City. I had an office on 40 Eighth And Fifth. So, you know, right?
• 58:50
  I I had an office in Rockefeller. Right? And, like, I can tell you, just from my own experience, anytime it's even Christmas season, you can't you can't even walk through the streets around that area, let alone, you know, that close to the street lighting ceremony. It was because it was tour I used to hate it. Like, I I I felt the grumpy New Yorker hates every tourist.
• 59:08
  Right? But let alone just just just the commute. Like, I I had a motorcycle. Like, that's how I got around the city. I I, would just drive motorcycles, and I loved it, and it was kinda crazy.
• 59:18
  But, like, on a motorcycle, yes, I could get from, you know, fifth and fifteenth up to Fifth and sixtieth in maybe ten minutes or so. But that was through, you know, kinda driving a little bit irresponsibly, perhaps, you could say. Know? But I was it really was I was I was matching the driving and the speed of the New York taxis. That's what I was doing.
• 59:36
  But, yeah, there's there's no way. There's no way you're covering that distance, especially on a bicycle.
• 59:42
  Todd Callender: Well, and just as as I'm walking down through my paper here that I wrote on substack where I I kind of did a full examination of the federal complaint. I went to DOT and I found out the fastest e bikes you're allowed to have in the city that are available to the public. And the fastest one goes 25 miles per hour. So, even at that speed, you're not making it there in eight minutes at all. Keep in mind that's with no stops.
• 1:00:09
  And keep in mind that this is the guy that they're saying he was mad at healthcare because he had back problems. So you see what I mean? So we keep going. Here's the other problem. In the federal complaint, they have images of him leaving the hostel, their words.
• 1:00:29
  And you know New York, you know the city bikes and all that, right? Okay. See if you spot this one. The guy they show is carrying the battery. Don't need to take those batteries off city bike.
• 1:00:43
  Seth Holehouse: Intentionally, they're locked because if you're gonna steal one thing for electric bike that's worth worth money, it's that Bosch battery that are you know, they're probably worth.
• 1:00:51
  Todd Callender: Person in their image owned his own bike. And and as, you know, just you see right here in my paper, it's like, my report, the area that they're showing is not him leaving the hostel. It's leaving the Frederick Douglas block of buildings, which is like a low income housing thing. It shows him leaving there. There's like a series of tunnels and like a chain link fence type.
• 1:01:17
  You know, when they put up the construction kind of forms like a tunnels and little canyons. He's coming out of there. He could have come from the hostel. Sure. Easily.
• 1:01:25
  But we don't see him leaving the hostel on the morning of the shooting. We see him leaving the entrance to the Frederick Douglass low income housing units. So and then he does his incredible Marvel superhero six minute pedal fast down to 50 Fourth And Sixth. Stops, gets a snack, few minutes to spare, trots on over to the the hotel, shoots a guy, and moves on, and then makes it all the way back up to the bus station. Then later we find out he, for some reason, ditched the bike and took a cab and then goes to the bus station where the police say they lost him in the most monitored bus station.
• 1:02:13
  This is super smart, high IQ, top of his class guy, world in front of him. Besides, hey, they're after me, I'm going go to Philadelphia. I'm going go to another population center on a bus that also has cameras. And, oh, I guess that was a bad idea. Now I'm gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna swing down this way.
• 1:02:33
  Now I'm gonna go all the way that way. Now they're going all the way that way makes sense, but it makes no sense that we have no images of them really on the day of the shooting. We have none of that face on the day of the shooting. All we see is a grainy picture of a guy in a hood.
• 1:02:48
  Seth Holehouse: Crazy.
• 1:02:49
  Todd Callender: Yeah. It's just and that's where I've gone with this. And I look, I've had major shows call me because I was daily caller interviewed me and they they did a great job. And I was talking about how it's impossible to be on the scene with that timing without a surveillance team or hiring some to do surveillance, keep an eye on this guy and then say, hey. What are you doing at the Starbucks getting a snack?
• 1:03:12
  He's here. He's he's leaving his hotel. I've done surveillance in New York City, and it it's impossible sometimes just to find somebody, let alone be in the right place at the right time when they are an hour and sixteen minutes ahead of schedule. It's impossible unless you sit there on their house all night and follow them from their house to the event. Granted, anyone could get lucky, but I don't see how this is even possible.
• 1:03:40
  So what does that mean? That means, okay, if I was going to based on if I was going to write a crime novel on this about what I think happened with the shooter himself, I think the shooter was hired. I think a separate PI team was hired to do surveillance on Brian Thompson. Okay? I think the shooter was a separate hire by whoever hired him.
• 1:04:04
  And we can't rule out the the wife. They were estranged. That should have been the first suspect. No one ever even mentioned her being a suspect. So you would say, okay, PI team, you're going to do this report into me.
• 1:04:16
  Let me know when he leaves. What the PI team probably doesn't realize is what that information is being used for. And it happens all the time. I've had so many cases where people will lie, and we were good at vetting it, but we would have stalkers, we'd have rapists, everything trying to get us to do surveillance on potential victims. I mean, it happens all the time.
• 1:04:38
  You have to be really careful vetting clients when you're in that business, but it does happen. You got your surveillance team. That information is being fed real time to the shooter. And you gotta imagine if the PI team was in that SUV, which is the vehicle of choice for PIs in New York because everyone drives them and you blend in and they have good headroom in the back for surveillance. That that must have been a, oh my god, moment.
• 1:05:03
  That's, you know, that point someone just shot our mark. So that's how I could see that happening there. I will also say the gloves were left off because it set the police up nicely to have found conveniently find fingerprints on the scene. I can't imagine anyone with the coolness of that shooter forgetting to wear their gloves, but not forgetting to wear a mask. And I think that's what happened.
• 1:05:29
  I will also say this. It's not special forces. It's not CIA doing that shooting. And here's why. Okay?
• 1:05:37
  It it hit me. It was actually my 13 year old son that pointed it out because I taught him how to do combat shooting. We were all taught to shoot with the gun pointed down and raising it up to the target, not coming down onto the target from above. Do you see that shooter? He does one of these numbers every time.
• 1:05:55
  That is not something you would do because we shot so much in the different jobs I had where you had standard qualifications every year even in the agencies. And if you came down on your target like that, you'd get kicked off the range. We were always taught hold down, come up. And that's an instinct. It's a muscle memory after a while.
• 1:06:15
  So, you know, I would say it's probably not someone from our special forces or our intelligence community. To me, I mean, who would have experience shooting people and being calm in the face of gunfire or potential gunfire or that situation? I mean and, you know, I respect my brothers in blue, but let's face the facts. I mean, someone who's gonna know New York that well, be able to move like that and not be nervous, especially like someone ex cop. Interesting.
• 1:06:46
  That's the theory. Just a hunch.
• 1:06:49
  Seth Holehouse: Just a hunch. Well, so, Brian, as we're wrapping up, I wanna make sure that I pull up your Rumble channel. I wanna encourage you to check out your show, investigate investigate everything, which is exactly what you're doing. Right? This is exactly it's it's super accurate.
• 1:07:04
  You've got some recent shows on this. Here's your one of your most recent ones, five days ago. Also, I I just saw this, you have a three hour show on the twenty three and me and the CCP, which is probably gonna be really good. And so anyway, I'll make sure I put your link to your show in the the video description. And do you have any final thoughts as we're wrapping up?
• 1:07:26
  Todd Callender: Yeah. It my final thoughts are this is if you are speaking with emotion and you're trying to be a journalist or an analyst or even a pundit, do a little investigating. If you feel strongly about a case, you're probably forming a hunch and that's trouble. Let the facts lead you to a theory. Don't let the theory lead you to the facts because you'll find the facts for it to fit in a theory.
• 1:07:50
  Okay. But the facts leading you to a theory will always steer you in the right direction. Never forget Occam's razor. It's not always a conspiracy. It's not always the CIA and the five eyes.
• 1:08:02
  Sometimes it's just greedy CEOs.
• 1:08:06
  Seth Holehouse: It's a good point. Good point. Well, Brian, thank you for your time today. Really interesting. I look forward to seeing how this this, this develops.
• 1:08:13
  Do you know when he goes to trial?
• 1:08:16
  Todd Callender: They keep pushing it off. I think the next date is April 9, but it, again, has been delayed, like, three times. I mean, we're not even at there's still that discovery phase. So and I I wanna remind people of that. He has not been convicted of anything.
• 1:08:29
  Seth Holehouse: Which is kinda crazy. I I I would briefly here. Like, when you look at this this article on Pan Bondi Pan Bondi, where she says here that Luigi's murder of Brian Thompson, innocent man and father, was a premeditated cold blooded assassination that shocked America. It's like, well, shit. Is he guilty?
• 1:08:50
  Like, has he has he been found guilty?
• 1:08:51
  Todd Callender: That can kill the whole case.
• 1:08:53
  Seth Holehouse: Like Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  Todd Callender: I mean, that's honestly irrelevant.
• 1:08:55
  Seth Holehouse: Statement that she's out there publicly stating, like, if, like, I don't know, if you're on the jury and you read that the the AG of the entire government has already said that this guy's a cold blooded murderer, then, I mean, why have a trial? Right?
• 1:09:11
  Todd Callender: Well, that and that's a mistrial right there. I mean, how can he get a fair trial? Crazy. Unless that's the intent. Hey.
• 1:09:17
  We're trying our best, but oops. I would imagine the Republican delegate Italian family in Maryland is probably more friendly with MAGA than against them. Just a hunch. You know? But those hunches, we gotta watch out for them.
• 1:09:31
  They could get you in trouble.
• 1:09:33
  Seth Holehouse: They can. Well, Brian, thanks again, It's always good speaking with you.
• 1:09:37
  Todd Callender: Always a pleasure.
• 1:09:38
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