Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: George Carlin Gets Quoted in the Supreme Court: Ridiculous Stand-up Stories with Wayne Federman

Transcript

CLASSIC: George Carlin Gets Quoted in the Supreme Court: Ridiculous Stand-up Stories with Wayne Federman · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, welcome back. We've got a classic episode
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: for you that we are quite excited about. We want
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to tell you at the top this might not be
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: appropriate for all the kiddos with the sensitive ear lobes.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: I was just telling you Ben Off Mike about the
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: recently reconnecting with the dude who hooked us up with
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: mister Wayne Fetterman, comedy legend, comedy expert, educator, Los Angeles
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: comedy scene luminary.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: And I did mention to this.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Guy Jeff, that this was by far the filthiest episode
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: pair of episodes in fact, that we have ever done
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: here on our humble little PG thirteen show.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, even more so than the James Joyce episodes.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Hey, you guys think of that James Joyce?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: It was a bunch of people like talking on the
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: street about their favorite James Joyce quote, and it was
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: a joke.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Obviously all of them were from the Filthy party letters.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, and filthy farty letters have have always been a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: struggle in a lot of societies. What does free speech mean?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: What makes a word a dirty work?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: And what makes a fart not free speech? I think
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: it is. It's a kind of speech.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It is a kinde of speech.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Well, are we or are we not? Today talking about
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: George Carlin and his list of dirty words and how
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: that kind of got under a little b in the
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: bonnet of the FCC. They won't let George b.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: All the way up to the US Supreme Court. And
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we're learning this with our returning special guests, the legendary
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Wayne Fetterman. So let's roll it, folks. Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Let's do it. Before we get started, folks, it's important
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to know that this episode contains some strong and explicit
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: language that may not be suitable for all the listeners.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So if you've got your kiddos in the crowd, this
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: might not be the episode for them. We thought about
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: censoring it, but we decided we couldn't, not in good faith,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: because this episode is fundamentally about free speech and language.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you for
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: tuning in. If you check the headlines or the title
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of your podcast before you listen to them, you will
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: know that this is episode two of a two part series.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: If you have not heard episode one, please don't delay,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: click pause, go listen to episode one. You'll want to
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: catch up. Hi, I'm ben.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, it's me. No, my microphonic glory.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: You sound wonderful.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Man again, it's my dulcet tones.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Dulcet tones. Yeah. So we had, as we said, a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: little bit of a technical difficulty in the first episode.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hopefully you could hear me bleeding into another mic,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: but it's just not as high fidelity as this is.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Listen to me leaning into the mic.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Well done. So we are of course always accompanied by
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a super producer to help us save the show. Today
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: that is our guest super producer, Paul Decant. However, we
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: still hold a very special place in our hearts for
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Casey Pigri, and a glint in our
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: eye and a swing in our step.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: And we are also joined today by our incredible guest
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Wayne Fetterman, who had some incredible things to say about
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: the history of stand up the storied careers of Lenny
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Bruce and today specifically George Carlin.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And without further ado, let's get the show on the road.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: This is this is incredible. I am still like It's amazing.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: This all happened when I was a kid, so it's
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: just it was just great. George Carlin again, who was,
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: you know, a beneficiary of Lenny Bruce's expanding expansion of language,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: and there was a number of comedians like it allowed
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Red Fox and Richard Pryor to speak in their street
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: vernacular without getting arrested, you know, just like, I don't know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: this is the way I talk on the corner when
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: I'm making people laugh. I think I can bring this
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: on stage. But Carlin was like, I don't know what
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: indecent or means exactly, So I'm going to come up
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: with a list of words you can never say on television,
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: right and those words I'm gonna say right now. This
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: is in order. It's shit, piss, fuck, hunt, cocksucker, motherfucker,
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: and tits. So that is that was the original bit
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: of his. And he later was like, it's weird that
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: I put motherfucker in there because I already said fuck earlier,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: which is a version of it. But he just liked
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: the rhythm of it, and I just need to say
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: this because it's very important to the whole story. George
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: Carlin didn't want to be a comedian, George Carlin wanted
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: to be a famous actor, movie star, and his idol
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: was a guy named Danny Kay. And Danny Kay was
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: known for these very twisty songs and speeches where he
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: would have high level of verbal acuity.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Just to interject real quick, I'm so glad
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you mentioned Danny k Wayne because ahead he is one
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of the actors I loved growing up, especially in the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: original version of Walter Mitty, so or totally familiar with
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: that turn of phrase. So that that was Carlin's sort
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of north star.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: For a while, it was his north star until he
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: realized that he hated acting for kind of the reasons
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: that we spoke about earlier. That he was just he
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: didn't like authority, you know, like if there's a director
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: on the sad time him to stand here and say this,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: he's not gonna like that. He didn't realize it at
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: the time. He was like, Oh, I'd rather just write
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: and say my own stuff, you know, and be completely
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: free of Even when he hosted Saturday Night Live, he
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: said to Lord Michael's, I don't want to be an
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: they sketches, I don't want to rehearse these things can
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: I just do my comedy and you know, and bring
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: my brain and my mouth and that'll be good. That'll
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: be good. And he's the first host of the first
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Saturday Night Live in you know whatever nineteen seventy five.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I believe.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: So.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: Anyway, so that's that ended his Danny cadream. But this bit,
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: the shit piss, fuck, hunt, cocksucker, motherfucker and tits has
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: a certain Gilbert and Sullivan rhythm to it that he loved,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: and that was part of the bit. That's what made
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: that as well as these words. So anyway, he did
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: this bit on an album called Class Clown, came out
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy two. The next year he does another
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: album called Occupation Fool, and he expands on it and
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: he calls it the filthy words. This is what happens.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: There's a public radio station or excuse me, not public
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: at PACIFICA. What is that? How would you describe PACIFICA
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: that network college?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they're certainly not like a top forty like right,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: They're kind of alternative for their day, you know.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Right, progress I would say, progressive radio station. There we
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: go in New York again, in New York, you know,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: the vanguard of progressivism WBAI, and they're doing a whole
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: thing about just language and the hypocrisy of language, and
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: where's this thing? And so they play filthy Words, which
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: is kind of an expanse. He talks about shit a lot,
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: shit faced, what is a you know, shit kicker and
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: all of that. Some guy named I came John Douglas.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: I just I don't remember that, but I wrote it down.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: He hears it in his car with his fifteen year
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: old son. Again, we're going to go back to youth,
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: remember that statute youth and others, And he called this
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: is in the middle of the afternoon. They play it
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: and WBAI says, look, this might be offensive, but I
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: just he's just talking about words. He's just using words
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: to talk about words and our language. So he caused
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: the FCC lodge is a complaint. The FCC says, you're
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: going to get a mark on your record. I think
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: some people said it was one hundred dollars fine, other
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: people said no, I'm not sure. And basically WBAI PACIFICA
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: Radio says I'm going to sue the FCC and say
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: this is unconstitutional because of the First Amendment. For playing this.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: George Carlin Bitt on the air at two o'clock on
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: a Tuesday afternoon in nineteen seventy three.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Any questions, I think we're with you so far, but
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: this sounds like sounds like it's about to get quickly
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: out of control.
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Guess what. The US Court of Appeals in Washington, DC.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: You may be familiar with that court. Brett Kavanaugh was
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: just on that court. Merrik Garland is on that court
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: that's considered the highest up to the right below the
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court, the penultimate court. Right, Yeah, they agree with PACIFICA.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: They were like, yeah, this is this is too broad
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: a definition what's indecent or obscene? And we're going to
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: strike down this fine or this mark on your record.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: So guess what. They bring it to the Supreme Court,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: and in a five to four decision, this is George Carlin,
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: a ninth grade dropout, having his words read in the
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court. Wow about whether they think these words are
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: indecent or obscene or what the difference between indecent or
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: obscene is.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And guess what.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: The Court, in a very narrow five to four decisions
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: says that during the daytime hours, the FCC does have
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: the right to say you can't play anything that would
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: be considered obscene or indecent, but after ten.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: O'clock you can't. Yeah, I think the term is safe harbor,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I believe is the term they are. Yes, that is right.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: I love the research you guys are doing. So that's
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: kind of what I happened. And I just carl into
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: the day he died. He said he always had a
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: perverse pride in the fact that somewhere in Supreme Court
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: like case law as a precedent that his stupid routine
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: he did on an album called you know class, excuse me,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: occupation fool is part of the history, the legal history
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: of the United States.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Well, let's hear a quick moment of Carlin himself talking
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: about how he feels about words in some of this
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: love it.
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: in and of themselves. They're only words. It's the context
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: that counts.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: It's the user.
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: It's the intention behind the words that makes them good
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent.
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: I get tired of people talking about bad words and
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: bad language.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Bullshit.
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: It's the context that makes them good or bad, but
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: context that makes them good.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: There we do also want to mention we would be
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: remiss if we skipped this part. Yeah, not only not
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: only is Carlin's or excerpts of Carlin's performance and his
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: writing part of Supreme Court case law, but he was
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: quoted alongside Shakespeare and passages from the Bible, I think
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the Bible. In the Bible, they mentioned the line. They
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: were like, oh, is this motherfucker stuff so bad? Because
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: the Bible says he who pisseth against the wall, So
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: where's the line? And then they also mentioned Shakespeare saying
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: pissing conduits. So this became an argument and started as
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: this again sort of hypocritical argument about decency in the
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: hearts and minds of the innocent and unspoiled, but it
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: quickly became a much more I think, a much more
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: intelligent argument about the role of language and literature. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you know what, good on Carlin. Yeah, earned it, no doubt.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: And I'm still deciding whether or not we can even
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: release this episode fully uncensored. This is a family show
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: technically just FYI, but I think this is valuable to
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: the point of like, you can't censor it, and it almost.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Do is it would be hypocritical of us.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: It would be hilariously hypocritical.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: This is like we're caught in a loop here. We
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: are a lot to talk about these words. Now we're
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: going to be setser. No, it's true because Carlin couldn't
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: say these words when he did The Tonight Shoe or
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: talk about it that way. But when he did Chris
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: Rock's HBO Joe, he was able to say the words.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: So it is interesting. I mean, it's still you wouldn't
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: want to say these words in front of a kid.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I guess right.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: It depends on the kid. Yeah.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kids have really tough, tough constitutions.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: My nine year old, who's actually here right now, has
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: been like giving us the devil horns this whole time.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man, I don't even know
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: where do we go from here? So yeah, what's next?
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Well, the Supreme Court case was in nineteen seventy eight,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: but really what happened in nineteen seventy five changed everything,
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: and that's when HBO started doing these hour specials. They
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: were called eventually called on Location and the first one
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: was done by Robert Klein at a school in the Northeast,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: and he's a very clean comedian, but even in that
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: specially goes, all right, I have total freedom to say anything.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Chit.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: You know, he just said, just to say the words.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: But then the next in nineteen seventy seven, Carlin does
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: and if you can find this, this would be amazing.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: His first of fourteen HBO specials. And before the special begins,
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: they have a newscaster talking about that this there's gonna
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: be some language on here that you're not used to
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: hearing on television. And then this gets even crazier. In
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: the middle of an HBO special, they stopped the special
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: and run a disclaimer on with the screen saying, the
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: next portion of this comedy act will contain language that
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: might be unsuitable for children, please, and then cuts back
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: to Carlin at usc just to bring it all full
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: circle at Beauvart Auditorium and then talks about you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: these this language and these words, and he sort of
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: became famous for this in a way where the language
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: and the arrests of Lenny Bruce sort of destroyed Lenny
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Bruce in a way. It did make him famous, but
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: he became so consumed with it, and if you really
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: listen to his act at the end, a lot of
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: times he would just read court transcripts. Was his act.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, he was obsessed?
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Huh yes, yes, very much so. And you know, I
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: don't know how much of the drugs were making them
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: paranoid or whatever, but it's like, it's very it's it's
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: really sad to listen to him just go on and
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: on about it. And in a way, it elevated Carlin's career.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: So in a short period of time from let's say
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: sixty five, I guess seventy fives, like in those ten
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: years have started to change. And then once we got
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: those HBO specials, suddenly there's Red Fox doing an HBO
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: special where you know, he's like, I don't want to
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: repeat the language, but it's you know, his graphic adult entertainment.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: So and that continues to this day. Although I will
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: say this, I do feel like there's a different kind
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: of censorship going on now in comedy a little bit.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: And Carlin talked about it at the end that he
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: wouldn't play colleges, and I know Seinfeld won't and I
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: know Chris Rock because people are so sensitive about hearing
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: something that might be offensive, like offensive is the new
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: and decent in our society. Again, no one's gonna get arrested,
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: but you might get shamed or lose a job because
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: of it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So what would be an example of that?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: What do you mean an example Seinfeld bits or like
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: somebody being you know, I mean, I can think of
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: one off the top. And this is a really extreme
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: example by that guy Milo Yanopolis, who is a alt
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: right kind of looty tune like you can, you can
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: disagree with what he has to say, but technically, you know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: you would like to have him have the right to
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: say it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But he's also not doing comedy.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: No, he's not doing comedy, but.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Doing comedy, but he was he was banned from all
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: these college campuses.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And this is not me saying good on my law.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying we're talking about the First Amendment, and
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: there are lines between like, you know, being indecent and
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know, being a supporter of violence. So
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: the whole deal with like indecency is like or freedom
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: of speech is like you can say what you want
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: as long as you're not actively hurting something.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But freedom of speech is also not freedom from consequences.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: No, that's also true.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: But I'm just wondering, like this whole PC police thing,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I think that's why I brought up this extreme example,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: because he is an extreme example of not being PC.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: And I don't think this is exclusively a discussion about comedy.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: This is about speech.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: So I'm just yes, it is right, Yes it is
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: and I look, I agree, I look, I'm listening very
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: carefully to what you're saying, and I agree with you,
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: and I don't. I'm not that familiar with Milo's stuff
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: other than being its in his fan club, but I
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: know a lot. No, but I do think it's interesting
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: that Carlin and Seinfeld and Chris Rock won't play colleges
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: because of how offensive might some people might find what they're.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Saying, which is strange.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: It's not strange because you can really get I don't
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: want to use the word bullied, but you can really
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: get publicly shamed online in a big way if you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: if people think what you're saying is offensive. And again,
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: I you know, this doesn't affect me personally, but as
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: a somebody who's like interested in the history of comedy,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: I feel like the walls are narrowing, as opposed to
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: for so long in my life they just kept broadening.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: And it used to be like if you made fun
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: of Catholics or something like that, and they get upset.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: You're like, well f them if they can't take a joke.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: But that doesn't exist anymore for some people who feel
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: like you can't make fun of a marginalized community. That's
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: a euphemism. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: So it's like any any of that. So it's I know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: this is off the track a little bit.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if you want to not at all,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: not at all, not at all.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: But I do think it is interesting that we've become
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: we've sort of shrunk back to a much more like
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: be careful, walking on eggshells comedy around certain subjects that
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: didn't exist when I was a kid. And I know
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Carlin said something phenomenal about it. He said that political
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: correctness is and I'm paraphrasing here and sipid because it
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: comes under the guise of tolerance. Is like, that's you're
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: under the guys of hey, we're just trying to make
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: it all better for everyone. But basically what you're doing,
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: you're just saying you can't say.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: That, right.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: He hated that it's the opposite of comedy, right, it's
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the opposite of what stand up.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: Comedy, the opposite of free speech. Yeah, more importantly, Yeah,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: but he knew, you know, it was interesting that he
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: had that that side. He saw it coming, and he
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: really railed against it in a big way.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Do you see this trend? You know, if we've walked
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: through some of the histories, so let's let's walk toward
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: the future. Do you see this trend escalating or do
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you think it's just another cyclical thing that will fall away.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I guess what I'm asking is, do we have some
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: more Supreme Court cases in the future if we had
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to guess that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: Would I don't think so, because I don't think it's
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: about the I don't think any government is going in
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: I don't to tell you the truth, I don't know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: It all depends on hate speech, is basically. What it
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: comes down to is whether you think hate speech is
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: something that should exist or that is completely protected by
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: the First Amendment. So and you know, I know you're
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: not allowed to incite somebody, Okay, these words are so
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: you know, amorphous or but I know you're not allowed
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: to do that. So so I don't think this is
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: this is more about you know, vigilante vigilanteism in each control,
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: you know, in the same way Catholics used to do
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: it in the you know, in the forties.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: It's such a slippery slope to because what about like
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: things like dog whistle politics, where you have these uh,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: potentially racist speakers that aren't outright saying exactly, kill kill
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: this group of people or hurt this group of people,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: but they're using these kind of coded words that speak
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: to their base or what have you, and then that's interpreted.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: But you know, from a legal standpoint, you can't say, oh,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: he said to do this, because it's all in the subtext.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Again, what is insights?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's you know, that's the whole thought
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: police thing where it's like, once you start banning words
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: like Carlin's words, you potentially could ban any word.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: So it's dangerous territory. But it's also like, where does
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: that leave us?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I strongly feel like we should not bleep this episode.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we just gonna have to put a really strongly
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: worded sorry.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: I didn't know why did you make me say those?
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Because we thought it'd be funny if you them, And
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: then he said, like, do your homework. But now we
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: were pretty much from the start not going to yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And also you nailed the cadence.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, you gotta have the cadence.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You can't just read the seven words in some sort.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Of like you have to Danny kay it up a
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: little bit.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: That's true. Well, this this has been illuminating, and I
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: like that we're ending on a question. We're and the
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: thing about this story is that it's not over now.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: This conversation, this conflict, this controversy continues of far past
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the fifties and the late forties into the future, into
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: the new millennium.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: But that's kind of what I was saying at the
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: top of the show, where it's like, you know, comedy
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: and this kind of thing that you that you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: has this the guist of like, oh, this is entertainment,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: this is light stuff, this is just to kind of
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: pass the time. Yet we're talking about it in terms
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: of like race, riots and the use of language to like, yeah,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: physically hurt people and incite, you know, these kind of
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: crazy events that can happen and that we're seeing happen
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: in the news, and we're.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Talking about the freedom of thought in a very real way.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: And the interesting thing is this is the first Amendment
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: to the Constitution, Like think they would have no idea
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: back then, But how powerful an idea that the government
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: shall make no laws infringing on freedom of speech? Like
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: that is insane that that's still I just I love
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: those guys, crazy white slave owner. Okay, can I do
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: a little button for the whole episode please? You might
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: find interesting or it's not, who knows. But when I
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: was on Curb Your Enthusiasm, I played a character named
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: Dean Weinstock And the name Weinstock was named after a
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: comedian named Lotus Weinstock who has since passed away. But
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: Lotus Weinstock, and you can look her up, was Lenny
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: Bruce's last girlfriend. Full circle, Full Sir, I knew Lotus too.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: I knew her. I knew I did you with her?
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Holy Smooth? I know, I know, you know what This
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: is a This is a rare moment, I think for
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: my co host and I because we stopped for a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: second and just stared at each other. Because that that
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: is a perfect ending. We've got to say that, I
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: think ridiculous historians listening now, If you enjoyed this episode
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a fraction as much as we enjoyed this interview, then,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: by god, we've we've done something right.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, And I think if you want more of this,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you should check out Wayne's new podcast, which goes even deeper.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Into the history of stand up.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Oh it's good.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: It's really really good, and it's out there. Now.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: What are you guys about two episodes deep? It's it's
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: it's like a mini series, right.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: It's six episodes and we're five in so we're just
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: about done just about the first season, and then we
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: might do deep dives in the second season. But you know,
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: we'll see.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I'm also envious of a show that has a clock
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: on it. We just have to do the show forever
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: until we die.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: It's sort of a Sissophian endeavor.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Oh but thank you, by the way, this is going
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: to be a two parter because this has been so
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: much fun and we already had like a nice even
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: divide down the middle between Lenny and uh and George
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: and this has just been a delight.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on, and we really
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: appreciate you diving deep with.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Us, Noel and Ben. I gotta say it was a
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: delight on the on this end as well. And I'm
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: just glad that the Danny K that we gave Danny
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Kay his due. It was quite quite a comedian and
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: a big, big influence on George Garland.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: And maybe, you know, maybe we can just throw a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Danny K clip somewhere in this episode so you can
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: hear the word clay.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I mean he's loaded, loaded with patter songs in there,
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, everything is take it boo, take it
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: te boo, take it ty boo.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Everything is tack it ti boo.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: Once up you'd dated to you did could be snaketty poo,
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: snaketty poo, snaket ty poo with the sky so blinkety blo.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: It callses one to say blessed mankind, including my attack.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I'm inclined. The feeling is a jolly weller. It's absolutely so.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: There you have it, folks, thank you so much for
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: tuning in. Thanks to our super producer Paul, Thanks to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: our superproducer Casey.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: And thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Thanks to our research folk who we love dearly, Eves
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Jeffcoat and Christopher Hasiotis, and most importantly, thank you Ben
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and Thank you Wayne. It has been the best.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you Noel, and thank you very much. Wayne. We
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: are not blowing smoke about the history of stand up
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Go check out the show. I mean you will. Look.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I think I said it earlier. I'm officially going to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: be insufferable at house parties.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: You're already pretty insufferable at house parties, Ben.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: That's what you know. That's why I only party in
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the yard.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: You're gonna take you to the next level.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go inside.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: So see you next time, folks chow.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartratedio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.