Latest / Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss / From Doctor to Dad: Dr. Mark Trolice’s Infertility Journey to Parenthood and the IVF Center

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From Doctor to Dad: Dr. Mark Trolice’s Infertility Journey to Parenthood and the IVF Center · Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss

• 0:09
  Crying Out Loud, a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows with your
• 0:17
  host Bernice Quisenberry. Today's episode is especially
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  powerful. We're honored to sit down with
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  Doctor Mark Trellis, or also known as Doctor TA, leading
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  reproductive endocrinologist, founder of the IVF Center, and a
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  man who has walked the very same path he now guides so many
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  through. In this heartfelt conversation,
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  Doctor T shares his own IVF journey to parenthood, the
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  challenges, the resilience, and the hope that carried him
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  forward. From his professional expertise
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  to his deeply personal story, T opens up about what it means to
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  live through infertility and how those experiences shaped his
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  life as both a doctor and a dad. Let's go through some of his
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  credentials. He's a professor at the UCF
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  College of Medicine, responsible for the medical education of
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  OBGYN residents and medical students.
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  He is also associate program director of the new UCFHCA
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  Florida Healthcare Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility
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  Fellowship program. He is a medical local journal
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  editor and authored research studies with publications and
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  many leading medical journals and textbooks, and he lectures
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  at numerous physician conferences.
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  His latest book is The Infertility Doctor's Guide to
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  Overcoming Infertility. Wow.
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  This is a story of science, strength, and the humanity at
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  the heart of every family's journey.
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  Welcome, Doctor T. Oh goodness, I was so kind.
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  Thank you so much and hello to everybody listening today.
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  And I want to 1st congratulate you.
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  I just learned about your foundation.
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  I want to congratulate you. What an endeavor, how many, how
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  many lives you are touching with with your empathy, supporting
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  and I just hope that we can contribute to their education,
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  empowerment and answer questions that they may have.
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  Thank you, Doctor T this means the world to have you on and
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  just, you know, hearing all about it.
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  And you know, we're just so honored and many of our
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  listeners, you know, know you as the founder of the IVF Center
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  and leader in reproductive medicine as you are.
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  But what some may not know is that passion for this work comes
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  from your own very personal place.
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  And I'd love for our listeners to get to know you on a more
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  personal level. So if you can share, you know
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  your own journal journey through infertility and IVF and how this
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  experience really has shaped both your life as a parent and
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  your work after. Sure, it began when my wife and
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  I started thinking about having children.
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  But before that, during my third year of medical school, I'm
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  first doctor in my family. I didn't know what I wanted to
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  do in medicine. Every rotation that I had, I
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  loved. And I thought, I have to do
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  this. I have to do this.
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  So I'm on the OBGYN rotation and our director said, OK, look, we
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  got a spot open for one week in the infertility service.
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  Who wants to do it? And nobody was raising their
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  hand. I said, I said I'll do it.
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  I don't know much about it, but I'll do it one day.
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  I was on there. It was for a week.
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  But after the first day, I called my mom and I said, this
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  is it. I found it.
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  I could not believe the impact that this field has on patients.
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  The technology, the the hormonal aspects, the emergency aspects,
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  the psychology, the the emotional connection with your
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  patients is is just mind boggling.
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  And I could not believe I knew right then that this is what I
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  wanted to do for the rest of my life, which is unusual because I
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  had to then finish my fourth year of medical school, go
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  through all of residency to become a fellow and reproductive
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  endocrinology, and then of course, go into practice.
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  But that was it. However, however, fourth year I
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  met my wife, fourth year of medical school, we got married
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  the first year of residency. And then probably my third year
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  of residency, we started trying to get pregnant and it wasn't
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  happening. And I said, so the love of the
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  field and my passion and compassion was already there for
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  the field. But to have it strike home was
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  was overwhelming. And we went through 10 years of
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  trying to conceive, initially naturally, of course, and then
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  IUI cycles for for those who don't know, that's artificial
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  insemination with medication stimulating the ovaries.
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  She had surgery, I had surgery, multiple IVF cycles.
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  She had complications from IVF, even an ectopic pregnancy and a
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  miscarriage. So sort of two pregnancy losses,
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  right? I was taking care of patients
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  during the day, crying at me, right, because of their
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  infertility, and then going home with my wife crying.
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  So I felt I was under Niagara Falls there, there.
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  It was overwhelming, paralyzing, feeling very vulnerable,
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  insecure, not a demand, right? And there was no place to go.
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  I was literally lost at and feeling on a life raft in the
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  middle of an ocean, didn't know where to go.
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  All my And so when I talk to my patients and they look at me,
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  they say, you know, how do you know how I feel?
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  You're describing, you know, you're asking me these questions
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  and your insight into my emotions is so strong.
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  I said, because I lived your life.
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  So patients don't care how much you know until they know how
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  much you care. When and when you express that
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  kind of emotional intelligence where you where you have the
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  insight into your own feelings but also theirs, that connection
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  is powerful. So pregnancy loss, like what
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  you're doing with patients and helping them through this.
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  I, I, I, I, I would tell you that it speaks volumes to your
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  compassion and empathy. And I know you're helping so
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  many people, and I'm just so delighted to be with you today.
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  Doctor T, thank you so much for opening up and sharing.
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  You know your journey and your story and I know like you, you
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  knew this all by textbook, right?
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  You studied it. And then when you live it, it's
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  just, it can be so overwhelming because there's so many steps
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  and testing and probing and prodding and everything that you
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  have to do with IU is and IVF and, and all of that.
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  And to, you know, be living it during the day with your
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  patients, like you were saying, and then at night and in your
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  personal life. I can't even imagine those
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  overwhelming feelings. Ironically, this morning in
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  teaching the Objuan residents during a lecture, the lecture
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  was entitled Recurrent Pregnancy Loss.
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  So I gave that lecture today and after the years of struggle in
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  trying to have a child, we decided that the way we were
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  going to build our family is through adoption.
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  I was uncomfortable for years about that option.
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  I always say that I'm a stubborn Italian from northern New
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  Jersey, so I didn't. I didn't know anything about
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  adoption. I didn't know anybody that did.
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  I felt my family would look at my children differently.
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  I didn't know how I was going to feel about the child.
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  And our first placement, we were ready to have the birth giver.
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  We were a month away to having our child and the birth giver
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  changed their mind so that that was truly an emotional
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  miscarriage. And so we grieved.
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  But then we just said, look, we want to build a family.
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  And the following month, my daughter and I, I knew that I
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  did not want my children to ever feel like they were a
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  substitute. While we're waiting for our
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  quote UN quote, own children. These were our children.
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  And my wife and I made a pact that we were not going to try
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  biologically anymore and we were gonna build our family.
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  Now we have 5 children and we were never gonna make them feel
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  that they were temporary for our own children.
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  And it's been, it's been an education.
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  Our, my family embraces my children because they're so
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  loving. And it was the one regret.
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  And if I could just impart this upon your listeners, the one
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  regret is not doing things sooner.
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  If you have, if you have a problem, address the options.
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  Life is never the way we want it to be.
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  And the fulfillment and the challenge of life is adjusting
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  to what is thrown at you. So what I've learned in this
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  process is that we are not defined by our ability to
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  biologically procreate. We're defined by what we do with
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  our life. You know, there's a famous
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  author that quotes to say your talent is what God's gift to
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  you, but what you do with your talent is your gift to God.
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  And so the ability to procreate and to grow your family
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  biologically is invariably everybody's, everybody's goal
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  when they when they want to build their family.
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  If the odds are looking slim, you have to consider what kind
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  of a physical, emotional and financial investment you want to
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  put into this. Because if the odds are low and
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  you've tried several different things, you have to make that
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  very important and sometimes very challenging decision.
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  Is, is do you do alternative options like egg donation, sperm
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  donation, embryo donation, adoption, all of those different
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  things? If I, if I could just say one,
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  one thing and I'm, I'm not necessarily advocating third
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  party. I'm just giving you these type
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  of insights. I remember doing an embryo
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  transfer on a Saturday morning. Bernice.
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  Yeah, we did the transfer and she said, hey, Doctor T, do you
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  communicate with my OBGYN about how I got pregnant?
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  I said, well, I'll let them know if you get pregnant and and
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  they're gonna take care of you from there on.
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  She says please. She used egg donation.
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  She said, please make sure you don't tell my over Joanne, this
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  baby is not mine. And I said, Oh my gosh, I was.
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  I was paralyzed. I will never forget the way she
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  said that. And when she said that, so in
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  the transfer room after we did the transfer, I said, can we
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  talk? So I wheeled my chair over to
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  her. She's lying on the table.
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  And I said, look, this baby, God willing, you get pregnant and
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  have a baby, this baby will only know you as mom.
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  And it is vital that you share that same feeling with this
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  baby. Otherwise it's doing a terrible,
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  terrible disservice. And families that grew up in the
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  same home that love each other, that's a family.
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  It's not the genetics, but I understand the impact.
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  Personally, I'll never know what it's like to not have biological
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  children, but I will tell you that my regret is not doing what
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  I did sooner. So we could have been younger
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  when we had children, but it's a but.
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  This is what life is. You don't look back.
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  You only get a strained neck from looking back.
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  You got to look forward. Yeah, I always say, you know,
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  you look in the rearview mirror and it only calls his accident.
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  You need to look through the windshield and keep driving
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  forward. And you know, it's so true.
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  It's true. I love that string neck.
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  Yep, you know. The best thing that your
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  patients are doing, I'm sorry, the best thing your patients are
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  doing or your, your, your listeners are doing is getting
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  education and support. Absolutely.
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  This is a devastating, devastating part of life is
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  having a pregnancy loss or the loss of a child.
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  Yes, I, I, I, you know, very few things are comparable on an
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  emotional scale as that their feelings need to be validated
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  and it's going to take time. Grieving process is different
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  for everybody. The length of time though, it is
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  important to resolve that you never forget and you shouldn't.
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  It just gets less painful, but you never forget.
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  Perseverance should allow the joy and fulfillment that you're
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  seeking if you're open to all options and hopefully the option
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  that you originally were pursuing comes to you.
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  And that's that's my prayer, of course.
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  Yes, of course. Oh my goodness.
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  And I think, you know, to look at this in a holistic
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  perspective with your clients and with your patients to doctor
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  T is huge because you're not just thinking with the IVF cap
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  one like we can hear sometimes with fertility clinics, you
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  know, like round after round after round after round, but
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  you're having educated conversations with this isn't
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  your only option. We can look at donation third
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  party. We can as in donation of, you
• 14:27
  know, eggs and sperm, but then also looking at adoption and
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  surrogacy or, you know, having all of them laid out so well for
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  them. So then they can talk and work
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  through. But someone who's also lived it
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  and you've had to get to that point of, you know, this is
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  where we're going to go and this is the journey that we're
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  taking. And for you to share that with
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  someone is just, it means so much more that validation and
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  being heard and seen than anything else really can in
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  those moments. Yeah, it's, it's not easy.
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  You know, we have a psychologist as part of our practice.
• 15:04
  We have an acupuncture specialist, our field and all of
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  Women's Health care actually, when it comes to the, the, the
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  infertility, the miscarriage and the loss of a child, physicians
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  have to validate that devastation.
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  And it's not always easy. Every physician handles this in
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  a different manner. It's it's difficult for us to
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  face the disappointment of a patient because our job is to
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  always try to satisfy a patient. And I think that, or at least I
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  know when patients don't conceive from a treatment cycle
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  that we do. There's something inside to me
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  to say. What did I do wrong?
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  That's sort of my first reaction.
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  And I guess that's what that's, that's what makes good
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  physicians. But I, I, I look at the cycle
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  and I say, you know, is there something that we could have
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  done differently? And even if there is nothing
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  that we could have done differently, I'm still
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  devastated about a negative pregnancy test.
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  When I started being the director at, when I first came
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  to Orlando back in 1999, I, we started the IVF program in, in
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  the hospital and our first group of patients, there were five of
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  them and four got pregnant. And the administrator or the
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  president of the hospital called me and say, I just heard about
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  your success rates. It's unbelievable.
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  Congratulations. And, and as she's talking with
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  me, she, she hears that my, my despair and my voice and, and
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  she says, well, why aren't you more excited?
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  I said, because I had to call one patient to tell her that she
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  wasn't pregnant. And I can't feel great.
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  I can't feel great when 1 is. I'm so devastated.
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  You know you can't expect everyone to conceive with your
• 16:58
  treatment cycles, but it doesn't mean you should stop trying.
• 17:02
  Yeah, Oh my goodness. When I think, you know, having
• 17:06
  that level of care from someone and really taking it personally
• 17:10
  and then looking at their protocols and changing things up
• 17:13
  and to see, you know, what else can be more successful in the
• 17:16
  next round if they choose to do another round or, you know,
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  where did things fall short? You know, from a medical
• 17:22
  perspective, taking that deep dive into things is half the
• 17:27
  battle in and of itself. Because you know, so many times
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  we hear people talk about, you know, they just did the same
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  protocol after protocol after protocol, nothing changed.
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  Just hoping for different results almost.
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  And it's like hearing, you know, you really taking that
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  ownership, Dr. T, that's huge. Well, it's communication 2.
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  Doctors can say the exact same thing, but it's the presentation
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  and the outward expression of understanding and allowing the
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  patient to ask questions and to ensure open dialogue.
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  Communication is, is vital. Patients want to be empowered,
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  they want to be involved in the decision making.
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  And you know, if you're dismissive with their concerns
• 18:15
  or questions, then that's going to cause some pretty hard
• 18:20
  feelings for patients. And that's why patients will
• 18:23
  move to different clinics. But it's the it's the feeling
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  that the patient knows you understand and care, right.
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  If you treat a patient as number 1567, that is not going to work
• 18:39
  out right their individualized personal care and, and that's
• 18:44
  what's going to be necessary. But you know, once again, the,
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  the resources that you're providing for, for the people
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  that have been so devastated over, over losses is invaluable.
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  And there's, there's probably not enough of acknowledgement
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  of, of this feeling. You know, I, I remember early in
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  my career of, of friends telling patients, oh, you know, you're
• 19:08
  young, you could have another one.
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  Well, that's not what they want to hear.
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  You know, I just had one, that one didn't make it.
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  And I need time to grieve and pray and try to understand how
• 19:25
  could this have happened and mourn the loss of my child, you
• 19:29
  know, to be. So these are friends and family.
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  They don't know what to say. So, you know, the best thing
• 19:36
  that I have said that I can share with patients about if
• 19:39
  they've had a prior loss or if they've had infertility and then
• 19:44
  finally get pregnant is to probably not tell anybody until
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  you're out of the first trimester.
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  Because once you're out of the first trimester, the chance of
• 19:53
  loss is really, really low, A1 to 2% or so.
• 19:57
  But if you, but if the more people that you tell and if God
• 20:00
  forbid, there is a tragedy, then you have to answer more people
• 20:06
  now. And you really that, that could
• 20:09
  be uncomfortable the more people that you tell.
• 20:11
  So, you know, it's a, it's a private situation, but I'll tell
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  you, sometimes families and different cultures inquire so
• 20:20
  much and put so much pressure on their children to have children.
• 20:25
  That it that that's an additional stress to those that
• 20:28
  are having trouble conceiving. And I I tell my patients the
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  only thing you owe your parents is love.
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  Yes. As long as they love you,
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  There's no contractual obligation for you to have to
• 20:39
  have children because they want you to have children.
• 20:41
  Yeah. So you have to let them know
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  that to respect your privacy. And if there's any news, you'll
• 20:48
  let them know. Yeah.
• 20:50
  Wow. And that's so powerful.
• 20:52
  And it's true. And I don't know, Doctor TI
• 20:55
  would love you for you to shed light on this.
• 20:57
  But something that we're finding too, when, you know, clients are
• 21:00
  coming to us is their parents, you know, from the, you know,
• 21:05
  previous generation when they were having kids and things like
• 21:08
  that, they weren't very involved with their medical.
• 21:11
  Like whatever the doctor said kind of went and you just kind
• 21:14
  of followed whatever they said. And if they said like, just go
• 21:18
  home and after losing a baby, you know, go home and conceive
• 21:21
  again, kind of like get over this, you need to move on,
• 21:24
  whatever. You know, they.
• 21:25
  And in those moments when the doctor, you know, says about
• 21:29
  going to have another baby, it feels like for me, it's like,
• 21:32
  you know, you're telling me that there's another baby is going to
• 21:34
  replace my baby, which isn't the case.
• 21:36
  And that's not really what happens.
• 21:38
  But that's kind of how they coped with it back in the day.
• 21:40
  And, you know, today it feels like, you know, we're so much
• 21:44
  more involved with our own medical and we ask a lot more
• 21:47
  questions and, you know, we want to be seen, heard and validated
• 21:52
  and not just brush things under the rug and keep going on and,
• 21:56
  you know, moving on and feeling like we don't have a place to
• 21:59
  put things, you know, or talk through things or process things
• 22:03
  and feeling involved in our care.
• 22:06
  Very insightful, Very insightful, Bernice.
• 22:09
  Yeah. It's not your father's or even
• 22:12
  your grandfather's medicine. This is Generation Z.
• 22:16
  We have instantaneous access to information.
• 22:19
  The worry is that the information is not necessarily
• 22:22
  substantiated. TikTok.
• 22:24
  TikTok has replaced Google as a go to source, the number one go
• 22:28
  to source for healthcare for a lot of the younger generation.
• 22:32
  That's why you're seeing so many physicians online with, I would
• 22:39
  say, some questionable videos in terms of the entertainment
• 22:42
  value. I'm a little bit more
• 22:44
  conservative in terms of how I want to educate my patients
• 22:47
  rather than dancing and lip syncing and doing that kind of
• 22:50
  stuff. But to your point, the patients
• 22:56
  demanded appropriately that we answer all their questions.
• 23:01
  We provide fairly prompt feedback to have them involved
• 23:07
  in their care. When I was a boy, I was in the
• 23:11
  waiting room with my mom, who was waiting to see her doctor.
• 23:15
  I will never forget this. And I tell the story a lot
• 23:18
  because we're sitting around and the waiting room is packed and
• 23:22
  it's dark outside. And I said to my mom, I said,
• 23:26
  mom, this waiting room is packed.
• 23:29
  We're all waiting for this. And nobody's complaining.
• 23:32
  What's going? How?
• 23:32
  How could this be? She said Because when we get in
• 23:37
  there, he answers everybody's questions and never let them
• 23:42
  leave unless they feel comfortable that they got their
• 23:46
  questions answered. I never forgot that It was one
• 23:49
  of the touch points of my life as being a physician and I felt
• 23:54
  that if I was going to go into medicine, that's what I would
• 23:58
  pray that patients would feel. So we get behind it's, it's
• 24:04
  sometimes overwhelming for us, but it's our obligation to
• 24:09
  ensure that we care for patients, answer all their
• 24:13
  questions, try to understand their true fear and really
• 24:21
  accept that they are angry. They're not necessarily angry at
• 24:25
  us, They're angry at the world, even God over why did this
• 24:30
  happen to me? Why, why am I being victimized
• 24:35
  in a sense? And they want and, and we are
• 24:39
  the messenger and we understand that.
• 24:42
  I think a good fertility practice or objuan practice
• 24:46
  understands that patients anger with outside circumstances, but
• 24:52
  patients anger over their diagnosis is their cry over why
• 24:56
  me? So it's the support, the support
• 25:00
  that's vital, Yeah. Absolutely.
• 25:02
  And I think being handheld, you know, a lot of times, you know,
• 25:07
  we hear stories of I got my discharge papers, you know,
• 25:11
  after having a, you know, a baby loss and early term, you know,
• 25:15
  miscarriage and they go home and, you know, they
• 25:18
  unfortunately had to do ADNC or, or whatever the case was, it was
• 25:21
  already just everything is already traumatic and
• 25:23
  devastating, But then they're not really given a lot of
• 25:26
  guidance. It's like if you have these
• 25:28
  issues, come back to the hospital, but that's it, like
• 25:30
  goodbye kind of thing, especially if it's like an
• 25:32
  emergency room situation and not having that knowledge of like
• 25:36
  what to expect next or what you're going to see, you know,
• 25:41
  just, you know, from everything clearing out and just to feel
• 25:45
  like it was so minimized in those situations is extremely
• 25:51
  difficult when all you're looking for is condolence and,
• 25:56
  you know, compassion and empathy.
• 25:57
  Like, you know, the things that us humans, you know, need
• 26:02
  because we're emotional beings. You said that very eloquently
• 26:07
  and and powerfully. Yeah.
• 26:12
  They pay patients need to we need to have more access to care
• 26:16
  to patients with the right resources.
• 26:19
  Women, Women's Health ER instead of a general ER, they, they, we
• 26:25
  need to be able to give them the, the ability to understand.
• 26:36
  It's education too. And if there is a language
• 26:40
  barrier, then you ensure that there's an interpreter and, and
• 26:44
  unfortunately a private equity that's buying up a lot of
• 26:48
  practices and a lot of even hospitals, it becomes
• 26:52
  financially, financially beneficial to get the patients
• 26:57
  in and out, get the patients in and out.
• 27:00
  And that's not why we went into medicine or should have gone
• 27:03
  into medicine. It, you know, physicians usually
• 27:07
  are compensated fairly well, but that is not the bottom line.
• 27:12
  The bottom line is why we became physicians, and we have to
• 27:15
  remember that. Yeah, absolutely, Doctor T And
• 27:19
  you know, in these like, you know, when we become pregnant,
• 27:23
  all of our hormones just spike and and heighten, right.
• 27:26
  And so not only are we going into everything so emotionally
• 27:30
  charged, and that's if someone also, you know, if they have
• 27:34
  like endometriosis or PCOS or, or different, you know,
• 27:38
  symptoms, you know, from different conditions that they
• 27:41
  may have and things that complicate things and, and throw
• 27:44
  hormones all off whack on top of them being told, you know, that
• 27:49
  this isn't going to be easy to conceive your own children and
• 27:52
  you're going to need like an IUI or an IVF and things like that.
• 27:56
  You know, looking at it from that standpoint of
• 27:58
  understanding, it's so different than, you know, telling someone
• 28:03
  that they have a hangnail that they need to get removed.
• 28:06
  Do you know what I mean? Like in those situations because
• 28:09
  like, there's so much other things going on that we can't
• 28:11
  explain or don't even know. And it's hard to almost have a
• 28:15
  level head in those situations. I remember a patient vividly.
• 28:21
  One of the one of the questions I ask patients all the time,
• 28:25
  usually at the outset, is how are you doing?
• 28:29
  And there was this one patient that just started crying and
• 28:36
  probably cried for 20 minutes to half hour.
• 28:39
  She said. You're the first person to ever
• 28:40
  ask me how I'm doing. And I try to teach my medical
• 28:44
  students and the residents that don't underestimate the
• 28:48
  devastation of infertility or pregnancy loss or because the
• 28:52
  more outward they are being jovial or engaging and
• 28:59
  interactive and even laughing. I said they are crying.
• 29:02
  Yes, on the inside. Yes, that patient who started
• 29:07
  crying, she came back for a second consultation and brought
• 29:12
  me back ten boxes of Kleenex. She said I used, I used so many
• 29:18
  Kleenex in your office that day. I felt so embarrassed.
• 29:22
  I had to give you this. So it's a little little humorous
• 29:27
  aspect, but one that I think we have to remember.
• 29:30
  And I, and I, and in some way I, I feel a little relief if they
• 29:35
  do cry during the consultation because I think you cry after,
• 29:41
  after the heightened anxiety and acute issue is showing some
• 29:48
  semblance of relief or stability.
• 29:52
  You know, you don't cry at the absolute height because you are
• 29:56
  in the middle of the fight and flight, right?
• 29:59
  But when, but when we start talking and I give them hope,
• 30:04
  that's when I see there's some crying because I think that
• 30:07
  there's some resolution there. When I, and when I tell them
• 30:10
  about the word hope is my acronym for hope.
• 30:14
  HOPE is to have only positive energy.
• 30:20
  That's the best use of the word I think you could have.
• 30:23
  And then we also talk about the issue of stress and stress.
• 30:27
  The best definition is trying to control something you can't.
• 30:33
  So we, so I am, I encourage them to take charge of things that
• 30:38
  they can influence. But if there are things that
• 30:41
  they literally can't change, then we have to do the best we
• 30:45
  can with adjusting to that. Yeah.
• 30:49
  And I think it's fear, you know, going into the unknown, not
• 30:52
  knowing what to expect, not knowing what you're going to be
• 30:54
  told, not knowing how the doctor's going to be or, you
• 30:58
  know, that that relationship, because it really is a
• 31:01
  relationship that you enter into because you both want the same
• 31:06
  outcome and you both care so deeply, you know.
• 31:08
  And and so it like when those fears looks like an onion, when
• 31:12
  you start peeling back those layers and giving them, you
• 31:15
  know, the different, answering their questions, being there
• 31:19
  and, and really like seeing them for them.
• 31:23
  Yeah. Like a pile of mush.
• 31:25
  Absolutely. You, you hit it right on the
• 31:28
  head with fear. The the most common, the most
• 31:32
  common statement that a patient makes to me is that they fear
• 31:39
  I'm going to tell them they're never going to be a mom.
• 31:42
  Yes, and that is the prevailing worry for when they come in
• 31:50
  patient today, she has regular menstrual cycles for years and
• 31:55
  just the last month or so they became irregular and I told I
• 32:00
  told them that I used to worry about that.
• 32:05
  Why is she having regular periods all of a sudden?
• 32:07
  And then I realized that so many of my patients who have regular
• 32:12
  periods a month or so before start having irregularity, and
• 32:18
  it's presumably stress related. It's right before they see me.
• 32:23
  They're at the height of worry, and stress can impact
• 32:29
  reproduction. Yes, and you know, like you were
• 32:33
  saying TikTok, Google searching, I would love to share, you know,
• 32:37
  the acronym of fear we always say is false evidence appearing
• 32:40
  real. And a lot of that comes from
• 32:44
  seeing, you know, when you start your algorithms on your phone
• 32:48
  start to know you. So if you're searching like, why
• 32:50
  am I not getting pregnant? Why, you know, am I having
• 32:53
  fertility troubles? And then all of a sudden
• 32:56
  everything infertility related starts popping up, videos,
• 32:59
  doctors, everything. And then when you start to
• 33:01
  almost live in that world, like, you know, we want to buy the red
• 33:04
  truck and then all you see is the infamous red truck on the
• 33:07
  road and you're like, this is a sign.
• 33:09
  This is it. That's how you feel on socials
• 33:11
  when you start scrolling through all this stuff, you know, and,
• 33:15
  and getting that fear by walking through the doors to your, you
• 33:18
  know, the IVF center and talking to you Doctor T is huge because
• 33:23
  you can put those fears at Bay and talk through it in an
• 33:26
  educated way that also makes the person feel like, OK, this isn't
• 33:31
  so overwhelming. It's not the big elephant.
• 33:33
  Now I can take a little bite at a time with someone, right?
• 33:37
  Yeah, that very, very well put. Your patients, women talk to
• 33:43
  other women and they are bombarded with unqualified and
• 33:48
  sometimes misinformation and that worsens their spiral into
• 33:55
  worry and feeling anxious. So, but it's difficult.
• 34:00
  I mean, all they have to do is have Internet access and they
• 34:04
  are finding so much online. And it's difficult for the
• 34:07
  uneducated in terms of being trained in healthcare.
• 34:10
  It's difficult for them to know what is real and what is not.
• 34:15
  And that's where the physician has to be the teacher to be able
• 34:19
  to dispel myths, give realistic, realistic expectations so that
• 34:27
  we can work together toward their goal.
• 34:31
  Yeah, that's so true. And I think, you know, you
• 34:35
  starting to and how you are teaching the doctors coming up,
• 34:40
  right? And you know, our future, which
• 34:42
  is so beautiful and amazing and them understanding this level of
• 34:47
  care and how you need to, you know, put things into
• 34:51
  perspective for people and also educate at the same time.
• 34:55
  But also, I always call dumbing down whenever I go into my
• 34:58
  doctor. And it's not because I'm trying
• 35:00
  to dismiss what I know or, you know, anything like that.
• 35:03
  But even being a professional when you're living it, Doctor T,
• 35:06
  did you feel like sometimes like the information was just too
• 35:08
  much and you can't really hear it or register it for what it
• 35:11
  is? So you almost need it to, like,
• 35:13
  be put so simply to you that then you can process it?
• 35:17
  Yeah. No bingo.
• 35:19
  When I go to a doctor, even today, I said, look, I'm a
• 35:22
  little anxious about stuff. Don't even get into the big
• 35:24
  words. Just give me something that I
• 35:26
  could understand. Yeah, and I'm in the club and I
• 35:30
  don't want to hear that. I I want to hear basics.
• 35:32
  Don't give me the terms that I have to look up because I'm not
• 35:35
  in the field that you're in. I want to know 5th, 5th grade
• 35:39
  level. Let's make it nice and easy so I
• 35:41
  can get it. Yes, yes, yeah.
• 35:46
  When it's when it's ourselves too, it can be so overwhelming
• 35:49
  and it's so personal. So yeah.
• 35:51
  And hearing you, you know that you know enough to be dangerous
• 35:55
  and all the different, you know, because you you oversaw
• 35:57
  different fields in medical school and stuff.
• 35:59
  But having those specialties too, I mean, that is huge and
• 36:04
  just make. Think about.
• 36:05
  Calling to a specialist. Yeah.
• 36:07
  Think, think about also, which we haven't touched on, is the
• 36:09
  support of the partner, the support of the partner.
• 36:13
  Yeah, that's huge and instrumental.
• 36:15
  The men always get, you know, the the dads always get
• 36:18
  overlooked. Yeah.
• 36:20
  Well, if they are with a heterosexual relationship or if
• 36:24
  they're the same sex partner, yes.
• 36:27
  You never want to leave them out, Yes.
• 36:29
  You also don't know the impact of the fertility problem with
• 36:34
  the partner emotionally. Now, if it's a heterosexual
• 36:37
  couple, the man is definitely worried that it could be that
• 36:40
  could be their involvement, which happens 30 to 40% of the
• 36:44
  time. Yeah.
• 36:45
  So making sure that you evaluate the couple and also instilling
• 36:51
  into the couple that this is not a blame game.
• 36:55
  Whomever, wherever we get the diagnosis, let's be grateful
• 36:59
  that we can address it and then move on.
• 37:02
  We are not looking to see whose fault it is, we're looking to
• 37:06
  see what we could do to solve this problem.
• 37:08
  But the the person, let's say the woman who's trying to
• 37:13
  conceive, the most important support that they get is from
• 37:17
  their partner. And sometimes couples will grow
• 37:19
  more distant as a result of this, either shame,
• 37:23
  disappointment, self blame. There, there are so many
• 37:27
  different reasons, but it's a couple's problem.
• 37:30
  And I knew that from very, very early, from my own experience.
• 37:34
  And so that's why we have a psychologist with us because of
• 37:40
  recognizing that this is a physical, emotional and
• 37:44
  financial commitment. Yes, because it is it, it's the
• 37:48
  shame, blame and guilt game, you know, that's what we call it
• 37:50
  because it's it's feeling all those things.
• 37:52
  But really from a perspective of only understanding where it's
• 37:56
  coming from is really the medical intervention can come in
• 37:59
  and then you can figure out the right protocols or different
• 38:01
  avenues that you guys can look at.
• 38:03
  But you're right, it, you know, it should be looked at together,
• 38:07
  but there's so much distress between a couple.
• 38:09
  I know when you share Doctor T at the beginning that your wife
• 38:12
  and you went on a 10 year fertility journey.
• 38:15
  I just like, you know, I was 2 1/2 with my husband and I just
• 38:19
  think, oh, you know, that was a that was a lot on us.
• 38:23
  Grateful we made it out, you know, and and are still together
• 38:27
  stronger than ever. But it during those times, yeah,
• 38:31
  we looked at each other and and then we always ask the questions
• 38:34
  like were we enough without children together, you know, or,
• 38:38
  or what does that, you know, those are questions that you
• 38:40
  never thought early on in your marriage or in a relationship
• 38:43
  that you would have to even question or ask yourselves.
• 38:47
  And the more difficult it is to conceive if you're having
• 38:50
  infertility, the more time you have to question everything.
• 38:57
  Yes. Do we do genetic testing?
• 39:00
  How advanced do we want to go? How many children do we want?
• 39:03
  Do we even want to have children?
• 39:05
  And then you get into a situation, some patients get
• 39:07
  analysis paralysis. They are now they are evaluating
• 39:12
  their situation to such detail that they don't know where to
• 39:16
  go. And so I see that a lot.
• 39:20
  If they consider a donation or sperm donation, they evaluate
• 39:26
  the profile medically, family history, genetics of the donor.
• 39:31
  I said, you know, I said really, you're going to know more about
• 39:34
  this donor than you're going to know from me about each other.
• 39:36
  But if they go very deep into if they do a deep dive, I said,
• 39:42
  look, I said, you know, you really didn't think about this
• 39:44
  with your partner like you are doing this right now.
• 39:47
  And I think that you're you're blocking yourself from being
• 39:52
  able to move on. So we get into that kind of a
• 39:54
  conversation too. Wow, my goodness, I know your
• 40:00
  patience just appreciate and admire you.
• 40:03
  I'm sure Doctor T cause covering all these bases with them and
• 40:07
  you know, willing to take it on and take on these conversations,
• 40:10
  but then also put your personal aspect and approach into it
• 40:13
  about what everything and how you openly share.
• 40:17
  Is huge. I mean, it just means the world
• 40:19
  in those unforeseen and unknowable moments, you know,
• 40:23
  when we're feeling like a fish out of water and out of control
• 40:25
  and outside of our own bodies. And just to like have someone at
• 40:30
  this level, Doctor T, going over things, that's instrumental.
• 40:35
  Well, thank you, Bernice. I, I was honored to be invited.
• 40:38
  I, I just want to reiterate to your listeners, is that we have
• 40:42
  to know when we relinquish control, there are things that
• 40:46
  are out of our control. And while that's scary, it's,
• 40:52
  it's a part of life. Even the, a young woman who's
• 40:57
  pregnant is no guarantee of the outcome.
• 41:00
  So we take the leap of faith because we're looking toward the
• 41:03
  goal we want, but there are some things that we have to leave up
• 41:07
  to God and nature and what we can control.
• 41:11
  We should do as best as we can. But what we can't, we have to
• 41:14
  take that leap of faith and and work through our our mind and
• 41:19
  body to be able to understand that things can happen.
• 41:24
  But we did the absolute best that we could.
• 41:28
  Yeah. Oh, that's so beautifully put,
• 41:30
  Doctor T Thank you for that. Well, thank you so much for
• 41:35
  sharing your insight, your expertise with us today.
• 41:39
  Anyone listening, if you or someone you know is navigating
• 41:42
  the challenges of pregnancy and fertility, baby loss all around,
• 41:45
  remember you're not alone and support is available.
• 41:48
  To get involved, raise awareness and find other resources, visit
• 41:51
  chasingtherainbows.org or Baby Loss awareness.org.
• 41:54
  Your actions, big or small, can make a real difference for
• 41:57
  families in need. And again, thank you so much,
• 41:59
  Doctor T If anyone's looking to connect with him or to buy his
• 42:03
  book, I would love, you know, for you to visit the IVF center
• 42:07
  and out of Florida and you can find out more information there
• 42:11
  and maybe even go visit Doctor T.
• 42:13
  So thanks again Doctor T so much for being on today.
• 42:17
  My pleasure, Bernice. Congratulations again for your
• 42:19
  invaluable foundation and it's a pleasure to be with you today.
• 42:23
  Thank you. That means the world from you.
• 42:25
  Thanks Doctor T play song.