Latest / Foul Territory / Andrew Marchand on ESPN-MLB divorce, Future of baseball media

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Andrew Marchand on ESPN-MLB divorce, Future of baseball media · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: That's what they have to figure out is how to
0:01
Speaker 1: present the game and so they can maximize their money
0:05
Speaker 1: and they can grow it. And I think you know,
0:06
Speaker 1: it's a combination of distribution, so broadcast, you can argue
0:10
Speaker 1: some of the new streamers, but they're not there yet
0:13
Speaker 1: for not marquee events.
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Speaker 2: All right, here you go. We've got Andrew Marshan joining
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Speaker 2: us right now, senior writer for the Athletics Sports Media Expert.
0:26
Speaker 2: Have been following him for a long time and you
0:28
Speaker 2: can also check out his podcast multiple times a week
0:31
Speaker 2: on the very topic we're going over, and many others
0:34
Speaker 2: all around sports media at Andrewmarshan dot com. Andrew, great
0:37
Speaker 2: to have you on man. Obviously a huge story that
0:39
Speaker 2: we wanted to dive into with you because ESPN and
0:42
Speaker 2: MLB just announced a massive divorce. Can you take us
0:47
Speaker 2: through what the implications will be for baseball fans, for
0:51
Speaker 2: MLB and for ESPN.
0:54
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's a big deal. The next year, nothing,
0:57
Speaker 1: this upcoming season, nothing will change. But as it stands now,
1:02
Speaker 1: ESPN they owed baseball five hundred and fifty million dollars
1:06
Speaker 1: a year for the next three years after this season,
1:10
Speaker 1: you know, as they're gonna pay it this year. Of course,
1:12
Speaker 1: they do Sunday Night Baseball, they do the home run Derby,
1:15
Speaker 1: and they have the first round of the playoffs. So
1:19
Speaker 1: they looked at this contract and they said five hundred
1:21
Speaker 1: and fifteen million dollars. Wait a minute. Apple pays ninety
1:24
Speaker 1: million for their double headed regular season national games exclusive
1:28
Speaker 1: on Friday, Roku on Sundays paying ten million. We agree
1:32
Speaker 1: we should pay more than them because our package includes playoffs,
1:35
Speaker 1: home run derby. Sunday Night Baseball is better. But is
1:40
Speaker 1: it fifty five times better than Roku? Is it six
1:45
Speaker 1: and not very good? Maths six times better than Apple?
1:48
Speaker 1: They said no. The two sides pretty heated. Yesterday, Rob
1:54
Speaker 1: Manfred sent a memo to the owners that my colleague
1:58
Speaker 1: Evan Drelich of the LETEK obtained, and he said that
2:02
Speaker 1: the ESPN is a platform that's shrinking, which I don't
2:08
Speaker 1: think he would have said if they were still willing
2:11
Speaker 1: to pay them five hundred and fifty million dollars. So
2:14
Speaker 1: now baseball goes into those final three years with nobody
2:18
Speaker 1: to work with yet. Manford said he has two places
2:21
Speaker 1: that are potential new distribution partners, but we'll see what
2:26
Speaker 1: happens next who's.
2:28
Speaker 3: To blame for this? Nobody's nobody's blaming ESPN for wanting
2:33
Speaker 3: to save money and read the landscape. But nobody's blaming
2:36
Speaker 3: MLB for blaming ESPN for not covering baseball the way
2:40
Speaker 3: that they should or shouldn't. So who's to blame? Who
2:42
Speaker 3: really gets the brunt of this blame?
2:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll blame somebody Rob Manfred and Noah Garden Manfred
2:51
Speaker 1: if you I don't know what their vision is as
2:53
Speaker 1: of yet in terms of their TV deals. They were
2:59
Speaker 1: mad because the last time around in twenty twenty one,
3:03
Speaker 1: ESPN chairman Jimmy Pittaro, he lowered what he was offering
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Speaker 1: from around seven hundred and seven fifty millions with ESPN
3:10
Speaker 1: was paying to the current five hundred and fifty million
3:13
Speaker 1: dollars a year, which I think is five to seventy
3:15
Speaker 1: for this season. So they weigh these things, they average
3:18
Speaker 1: out over the whole contract, and so you know, you
3:21
Speaker 1: generally at the end they are more than at the beginning,
3:24
Speaker 1: and so, okay, you're mad about that. But then you
3:28
Speaker 1: go and you take the extra games at ESPN didn't
3:30
Speaker 1: want anymore, and you go to Apple and you sell
3:33
Speaker 1: them for ninety million dollars and you call an experiment.
3:36
Speaker 1: You go to Roku. Well, first you have Peacock, but
3:38
Speaker 1: then you go to Roku and you sell them for
3:39
Speaker 1: ten million dollars. I don't know how you can expect
3:42
Speaker 1: ESPN to sit there and say you've just devalued how
3:45
Speaker 1: much you say regular season games cost. And again not
3:48
Speaker 1: that ESPN's package is slightly better. But if you look
3:51
Speaker 1: Roku's schedule came out this week, it's not bad. It
3:56
Speaker 1: has some Yankee games, some Dodger games, I believe, and
4:00
Speaker 1: it's it's okay, and there is some exclusivity because those
4:03
Speaker 1: games start a little bit earlier. ESPN has the full
4:07
Speaker 1: ramp of nobody else playing on Sunday night. It's clearly better,
4:11
Speaker 1: is it. It probably is worth you know, two hundred,
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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty maybe three hundred million dollars. You probably,
4:17
Speaker 1: you know, should be paying for that package at this point.
4:21
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think, like, I don't know what
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Speaker 1: their vision is. Having the opt out that they agreed
4:27
Speaker 1: to with three years left is not ideal because most
4:31
Speaker 1: partners want a longer term deal so they have stability.
4:34
Speaker 1: And after the twenty twenty eight season, Fox t and
4:37
Speaker 1: t and this deal are gonna be up, and so
4:42
Speaker 1: I don't really see. And then obviously they also have
4:44
Speaker 1: the regional sports network problem, and it's not a great
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Speaker 1: These aren't great cards that they've been dealt. So I'm
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Speaker 1: not I'm a little sympathetic in terms of that, but
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Speaker 1: I don't see at this moment the vision of what
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Speaker 1: they're trying to do and how it's cohesive. Because ESPN
5:01
Speaker 1: is likely their best partner that they could have. We
5:05
Speaker 1: can talk about the Amazons, we could talk about maybe
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Speaker 1: another network, Apple, Roku, you Google YouTube. The streamers are
5:13
Speaker 1: unproven with regular season baseball, and you're gonna talk about
5:17
Speaker 1: that ESPN's not featuring baseball on it's on Sports Center
5:24
Speaker 1: or their talk shows, and maybe that's true. Go to
5:28
Speaker 1: a streamer and let's see what the ratings are if
5:31
Speaker 1: you're major League Baseball for regular season games. I don't
5:34
Speaker 1: think they're gonna be great. I don't think that many
5:35
Speaker 1: people think less people will watch, and I think you're
5:37
Speaker 1: taking big risk of going to those twenty twenty eight
5:40
Speaker 1: deals that you're gonna have to renew or reconfigure.
5:45
Speaker 3: Did Rob Manfred's comments were they too petty in a
5:49
Speaker 3: sense of like, well, if you're not going to then
5:52
Speaker 3: you're not that cool anyway, ESPN and we're fine with it.
5:55
Speaker 3: Were they too petty in the sense that whoever's going
5:59
Speaker 3: to be picking up these games or whoever they're going
6:01
Speaker 3: to next the two other places that he said they're
6:04
Speaker 3: going to be, you know, possibly streaming on, Like do
6:07
Speaker 3: you really want to work with the guy who does
6:09
Speaker 3: this at the divorce of, you know, a long standing
6:12
Speaker 3: relationship that Major League Baseball on ESPN had.
6:16
Speaker 1: So I'm a person who thinks like you have a
6:19
Speaker 1: reason for everything you do, and so especially we're talking
6:22
Speaker 1: about if you're the commissioner here, what's the strategic reason
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Speaker 1: to this ESPN here after a long relationship that has
6:31
Speaker 1: been a good relationship overall. You could argue that they don't.
6:34
Speaker 1: The reason that you guys, you know, are are off
6:38
Speaker 1: to success is because you have an audience that likes
6:41
Speaker 1: to talk about baseball. But I'm not saying it's a
6:43
Speaker 1: niche audience, because I think there's a big niche for baseball.
6:46
Speaker 1: There's a lot of baseball fans. But if you want
6:48
Speaker 1: to do a show like First Take, people want to
6:51
Speaker 1: hear about the cowboys. So the idea that it's not.
6:56
Speaker 1: They would talk about the Milwaukee Brewers on first take
6:58
Speaker 1: if more people would watch. They're just doing what the
7:01
Speaker 1: metrics say. And so to bring up that stuff, which
7:04
Speaker 1: I don't think really concerns them, the five hundred and
7:07
Speaker 1: fifty million dollars is what concerns Major League Baseball, I
7:11
Speaker 1: don't see the purpose of that. I also, ESPN still
7:15
Speaker 1: wants to be in business with Major League Baseball. They
7:18
Speaker 1: want to have national games. They'd like to be part
7:21
Speaker 1: of the solutions for regional sports games and all the
7:25
Speaker 1: problems with the RSNS. And the other thing is they
7:29
Speaker 1: have someone in Jimmy Pittaro who's a huge baseball fan.
7:32
Speaker 1: And when you make these decisions, you'd like to say, well,
7:35
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter. I think it does matter a little bit.
7:37
Speaker 1: The guy in charge eats and drinks and breeds the
7:41
Speaker 1: New York Yankees still gets upset over regular season losses.
7:47
Speaker 1: And so that's someone who you want. And his sister
7:51
Speaker 1: works in the commissioner's office, so you feel like that's
7:54
Speaker 1: someone who's I wouldn't say family, but it's someone who
7:57
Speaker 1: you could work with. And here's the other question you
8:00
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself. You're major League Baseball. Why did
8:02
Speaker 1: did the deal the last deal go down from seven
8:05
Speaker 1: hundred plus to five point fifty because they didn't have
8:09
Speaker 1: somebody else to go to. They had somebody else to
8:12
Speaker 1: go to, then they would have or they at least
8:14
Speaker 1: used to, you would have used the leverage to keep
8:15
Speaker 1: the number at the same number. Why did they end
8:17
Speaker 1: up at Roku for ten million dollars? Because nobody really
8:20
Speaker 1: wanted those deals. Now the streamers have matured. Amazon's clearly.
8:26
Speaker 1: I think they're probably ESPN's biggest rival right now, with
8:28
Speaker 1: Netflix maybe around the corner because they have the NFL,
8:31
Speaker 1: they have Thursday Night Football, they liked the idea, they
8:34
Speaker 1: have a relationship with the Yankees. They've been very smart
8:36
Speaker 1: and so could they be the saving grace maybe? But
8:40
Speaker 1: they also I don't know if they're just writing a
8:42
Speaker 1: check because they can. That's not what their mo is. Yeah, Netflix,
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Speaker 1: Apple has not been a success. They don't release any numbers.
8:50
Speaker 1: I can't say the numbers I've heard, but they've not
8:52
Speaker 1: been good. And you just have a feel too when
8:55
Speaker 1: when those games are on for people for their local team,
8:59
Speaker 1: is their excitement or is it a nuisance? And I
9:01
Speaker 1: think I think almost one hundred percent. People would say
9:04
Speaker 1: it's a nuisance. It's four times a year, and I
9:06
Speaker 1: don't really see the strategy of what they're doing. They
9:09
Speaker 1: got to really rethink when they get the twenty twenty
9:11
Speaker 1: eight in terms of how they're gonna sell their packages
9:13
Speaker 1: because they have to do it differently than they are
9:15
Speaker 1: now because it's a different world with streaming, and again
9:19
Speaker 1: there's no vision right now. So to answer your question,
9:21
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you make those comments because I
9:23
Speaker 1: think if you're smart, you want ESPN still involved. That's
9:26
Speaker 1: only gonna help you. It's not gonna hurt you if
9:28
Speaker 1: you have ESPN at the table, even if you want
9:30
Speaker 1: to leave.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, misguided and dumb, take the high road. It's not
9:34
Speaker 2: like it's the last time you're ever going to work
9:36
Speaker 2: with them. I'm totally with you. And it's not like
9:39
Speaker 2: we always get straight shooter comments and that's fine, we
9:41
Speaker 2: know what we're getting from the league. But Commissioner Man
9:45
Speaker 2: for talking about the a situation, Commissioner Man for talking
9:47
Speaker 2: about the uniform disaster, right like, all that gets covered up,
9:50
Speaker 2: but then we're gonna blast ESPN. Yeah that rubbed me
9:53
Speaker 2: the wrong way. So here's the perfect follow up I
9:55
Speaker 2: think for the league to think about is do they
9:58
Speaker 2: really have multiple other streamers or networks involved here? Do
10:02
Speaker 2: you think that they do? He promised everyone in his letter.
10:05
Speaker 2: It's not like he was talking off the cuff when
10:07
Speaker 2: he blasted ESPN. He also said in the letter in writing,
10:10
Speaker 2: we've got two other dance partners. Do you believe it
10:13
Speaker 2: in any speculation on who that would be?
10:16
Speaker 1: So, you know, part of reporting is trying to be prepared.
10:19
Speaker 1: So I've talked to a lot of places to try
10:21
Speaker 1: to gauge interest. Do I think there would people want
10:24
Speaker 1: to broadcast or stream baseball? Yes? Are they going to
10:28
Speaker 1: come close to five hundred and fifty million dollars? Very
10:31
Speaker 1: doubtful that they'll get even any you know, near that number.
10:34
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised by that because of the precedents of
10:38
Speaker 1: the other deals and where the value is. A Sunday
10:41
Speaker 1: night baseball game probably brings in about a million and
10:44
Speaker 1: a half to two million dollars when you add it
10:46
Speaker 1: all up in advertising per game. There's twenty six of
10:49
Speaker 1: them around, So do the mat there. You're talking about
10:52
Speaker 1: fifty two million in the playoffs, maybe add another one
10:55
Speaker 1: hundred million. Home run Derby. I think you can get
10:57
Speaker 1: the two hundred million, and maybe then it's baseball you
10:59
Speaker 1: get two hundred fifty million. I think those are the
11:01
Speaker 1: numbers you're probably talking about, so I could go one
11:05
Speaker 1: by one. I try not to say what's not gonna
11:07
Speaker 1: happen because nobody's gonna Guys are gonna call it. You say, hey,
11:11
Speaker 1: Marsham said they're not gonna end up on Fox. I
11:13
Speaker 1: will say I don't think they will end up on Fox.
11:15
Speaker 1: Let's let's be the cheap deal. Fox already has baseball,
11:17
Speaker 1: they already paying baseball. They like their a situation. They've
11:21
Speaker 1: been offered Sunday Night in the past, they haven't gone
11:23
Speaker 1: for it. Could someone like NBC with their Sunday Night
11:27
Speaker 1: they have Sunday Night football, they have Sunday Night basketball.
11:29
Speaker 1: Could they do a package? Yeah, but you don't have
11:32
Speaker 1: all like what happens is September. You're not on broadcast
11:35
Speaker 1: TV at that point because they have football. So you
11:37
Speaker 1: go to Peacock. Does that Does that solve what Manford
11:43
Speaker 1: said in his memo in terms of we want broader distribution,
11:47
Speaker 1: So your most important Sunday primetime games are possibly on Peacock.
11:51
Speaker 1: I don't see that. You know, CBS maybe is you know,
11:55
Speaker 1: it could be a new entry, but I tend to
11:58
Speaker 1: doubt it. Again, I'm not gonna rule any out, but
12:00
Speaker 1: when I don't think so, and so you get to the streamers,
12:03
Speaker 1: I think Amazon's the one everyone points too, but they
12:07
Speaker 1: don't look at themselves as we're dying to get in.
12:10
Speaker 1: They they are very strategic, very smart. And then Apple
12:15
Speaker 1: that hasn't been a success. Like I people, Apple's not
12:17
Speaker 1: as broadly distributed in terms of Apple TV Plus, and
12:21
Speaker 1: so I don't know if I don't foresee them doing
12:25
Speaker 1: a bigger deal with Apple, I don't think that has
12:26
Speaker 1: gone well. And so it's not obvious who it could be.
12:31
Speaker 1: I mean, there's Netflix, there's Google YouTube. I will say
12:35
Speaker 1: that I would be a little bit like I'm not
12:39
Speaker 1: gonna say one hundred percent, but I feel like if
12:41
Speaker 1: they had somebody, we might have already heard about it.
12:43
Speaker 1: That's very possible. Again, we have to see. Yeah, you
12:47
Speaker 1: gotta let it play out. You gotta give Manford and
12:48
Speaker 1: Noah Garden a chance to show that there's other outlets
12:53
Speaker 1: out there. But again I said seven years ago, or
12:57
Speaker 1: actually twenty twenty one, not seven years ago twenty twenty
12:59
Speaker 1: one and they had to go with ESPN. Then they
13:02
Speaker 1: were stuck with Roku and they did the Apple deal.
13:06
Speaker 1: So maybe someone emerges. I just don't think it's obvious.
13:09
Speaker 1: Again they can have another partner. I mean, there are
13:12
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Baseball is great, people want to
13:14
Speaker 1: be involved with baseball, the money, the distribution channels. Do
13:17
Speaker 1: they have something better than what ESPN should has and
13:20
Speaker 1: they should be an ESPN. It's pretty obvious that's where
13:23
Speaker 1: they should. That's the deal they should be making, is
13:25
Speaker 1: how do we make this work with ESPN? And even
13:27
Speaker 1: if it's less money, because yes, they're mad that they
13:30
Speaker 1: loaded it last time they loaded this time, but you can't.
13:32
Speaker 1: That's how you run a league being mad. You gotta
13:34
Speaker 1: do it. You know what's in front of you.
13:37
Speaker 2: Right ESPN, even though they don't talk about baseball, it
13:40
Speaker 2: is still good to be in business with them. The
13:42
Speaker 2: way that they do promote what they have in their inventory. Also,
13:46
Speaker 2: they do have a new streaming platform with Andrews been
13:49
Speaker 2: all over this story which is coming out soon, and
13:52
Speaker 2: that direct to consumer platform obviously could use the inventory.
13:55
Speaker 2: Maybe they could talk them into some studio shows stuff
13:58
Speaker 2: like that that would please them on that side. We
14:00
Speaker 2: know this is about money. So here's my next one
14:02
Speaker 2: for you, Andrew might be my last one. How do
14:05
Speaker 2: you compare the way that MLB has handled the media
14:08
Speaker 2: side of things versus the other sports that you cover
14:10
Speaker 2: in terms of are they doing a good job or not?
14:12
Speaker 2: And I'm broadening it beyond just media rights because I
14:16
Speaker 2: can give some insight on things that a lot of
14:18
Speaker 2: creators and just fans look for. They're by far the
14:22
Speaker 2: most strict league when it comes to rights on places
14:25
Speaker 2: like YouTube. They are so damn strict. There were stories
14:28
Speaker 2: out about hockey. MLB is ten times more strict than
14:31
Speaker 2: hockey has ever been on being able to use a
14:34
Speaker 2: single slice of anything. NBA took the complete opposite route
14:37
Speaker 2: about ten years ago. Right, they're on a million different
14:39
Speaker 2: streaming platforms saying oh, we're testing things out. No, you're
14:41
Speaker 2: trying to take a quick buck, and it actually ended
14:43
Speaker 2: up screwing you over. So I can go on and
14:45
Speaker 2: on about this. Obviously, I've disagreed on a lot of
14:47
Speaker 2: things and ended up saying, hey, I think they're missing
14:50
Speaker 2: something on the talk show side too. But curious to
14:52
Speaker 2: get your take on how they compare to people like
14:55
Speaker 2: Adam Silver and his decisions and I know, different product,
14:58
Speaker 2: but also rather.
15:00
Speaker 1: I think you have to start there. Yeah, I think so,
15:02
Speaker 1: I do think you have to start there. The NFL
15:05
Speaker 1: is the king because they have the best TV sports,
15:08
Speaker 1: and so it is easier to make great deals when
15:10
Speaker 1: you have a sport that has something that the word
15:15
Speaker 1: that I want to use here is scarcity. And now
15:17
Speaker 1: the NFL keeps like making you more Netflix games and
15:21
Speaker 1: Amazon games and so. But the one thing that really
15:24
Speaker 1: helps the NFL is even though they've expanded the season
15:27
Speaker 1: of seventeen games, they have scarcity. The NBA what they
15:30
Speaker 1: just did, and they did a masterful job. So if
15:32
Speaker 1: you ask me who's done the best job, Adam Silver
15:35
Speaker 1: has done the best job. In the last cycle, he
15:37
Speaker 1: got seventy six billion dollars. He got more money from
15:42
Speaker 1: NBC than NBC pays the NFL and the NFL. NBC
15:46
Speaker 1: has Super Bowls, they only have half the Western Conference
15:49
Speaker 1: over their eleven years half you know, six games, six
15:52
Speaker 1: Western Conference finals, no finals. He got more money from Amazon,
15:58
Speaker 1: he got similar to the NFL from ESPN, and so
16:03
Speaker 1: he's done the best job. Baseball's national and regional now
16:10
Speaker 1: is a very difficult dilemma. If I were them, that
16:15
Speaker 1: the word I use before scarcity, I would try to
16:17
Speaker 1: figure out a way to devise packages where I create
16:22
Speaker 1: marquee events. So maybe it's Fox with ten marquee events
16:26
Speaker 1: during the regular season opening day, you have a triple
16:29
Speaker 1: header double header on Big Fox. Uh, and that's it
16:32
Speaker 1: standalone doubleheader. You have the All Star Game. Fox has
16:36
Speaker 1: they did the Field of Dreams Classic, Maybe do one
16:39
Speaker 1: or two of those. Maybe you in you know, in September.
16:45
Speaker 1: They don't want it because they have college football, but
16:47
Speaker 1: maybe you find a slot during the September the big
16:51
Speaker 1: h you know, September run and then the playoffs and
16:53
Speaker 1: the words. So that's like one example. I could go
16:55
Speaker 1: through other and you need to have you can't have
16:58
Speaker 1: these fifty partners. You're a Yankee fan, Yes, Amazon, Apple,
17:04
Speaker 1: Roku is free, but Roku it might be TNT. You're
17:13
Speaker 1: you tell you make it hard for people. Eventually they'll
17:16
Speaker 1: give up, you know, the diehards of the dieards, they're
17:18
Speaker 1: gonna find it. But there's there's not as many of
17:20
Speaker 1: those people. They're listening probably to you because they're so
17:23
Speaker 1: into it and and you guys have a You know,
17:25
Speaker 1: you're global and you can reach a lot of people,
17:28
Speaker 1: but when you talk about even the Yankees, it just
17:31
Speaker 1: you I know what I've heard what the numbers are
17:34
Speaker 1: for an Apple game. You know, people just will say,
17:36
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have Apple. It's it's a hassle
17:40
Speaker 1: and it annoys people. They got to figure out a
17:42
Speaker 1: way that it's easy. They understand, like I think they
17:45
Speaker 1: get a bad rap on the blackout problem. They know
17:47
Speaker 1: they want to get rid of the blackouts us just
17:49
Speaker 1: there's contracts that they can't just break. But so they
17:53
Speaker 1: understand that issue and I think they desperately want to
17:55
Speaker 1: fix it. But they that's what they have to figure
17:59
Speaker 1: out is how to present the game and so they
18:01
Speaker 1: can maximize their money and they can grow it. And
18:04
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's a combination of distribution, so broadcast,
18:07
Speaker 1: you can argue some of the new streamers, but they're
18:10
Speaker 1: not there yet. For not marquee events. People aren't finding
18:14
Speaker 1: those things in terms of the casual fan and you
18:16
Speaker 1: get the diearchs. Yes, and so they so answer your question,
18:19
Speaker 1: they haven't done a great job. They've done a bad
18:21
Speaker 1: job for sure, But I also don't think that their
18:24
Speaker 1: hand is as good as some of the other sports.
18:26
Speaker 1: That's fair.
18:27
Speaker 2: Last thing, last point here, as far as I know,
18:31
Speaker 2: they held some streaming rights hostage because there was obviously
18:35
Speaker 2: a relationship with many of these rs ns and they
18:37
Speaker 2: were like, well, you have to pay us a lot
18:38
Speaker 2: more for that right, which okay, I get it, but
18:41
Speaker 2: those didn't get sold elsewhere, and then it just screws
18:45
Speaker 2: over the fan and then you miss out on people
18:47
Speaker 2: like me who consume content very differently. So that was
18:50
Speaker 2: a part also that I felt lost with for a
18:52
Speaker 2: ten year span. I'm like, this just doesn't add up.
18:56
Speaker 1: Well. I think another thing that now all the sports,
19:00
Speaker 1: all the leagues, and all the networks are doing, you
19:02
Speaker 1: can't just chase old money. They had a great system
19:05
Speaker 1: with the RSN, and if you're just chasing old money,
19:09
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in trouble if you ask me. The
19:12
Speaker 1: reason I think ESPN makes a lot of sense is
19:14
Speaker 1: ESPN's gonna go DTC, which means you won't need cable
19:17
Speaker 1: in August. They're probably gonna charge twenty five to thirty dollars.
19:20
Speaker 1: So if you're someone who doesn't want cable you want
19:23
Speaker 1: to lay They have about one third of the big
19:25
Speaker 1: sports and they have a lot, but they don't have everything.
19:29
Speaker 1: If I'm major League Baseball, I want to be part
19:31
Speaker 1: of that, and you charge either somewhere between five and
19:34
Speaker 1: ten dollars extra per month, because I think you can
19:36
Speaker 1: get people to pay five or ten dollars and I
19:39
Speaker 1: do these deals. I wouldn't try to get a check.
19:41
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's I would try to get
19:44
Speaker 1: the best distribution and then charge five to ten dollars
19:49
Speaker 1: if you can, and I get it. They want to
19:51
Speaker 1: now they just price it twenty four and ninety nine
19:54
Speaker 1: or even twenty nine to ninety nine for these monthly
19:56
Speaker 1: packages that we don't see. The numbers I can't imagine,
20:00
Speaker 1: and that many people are getting it because you first
20:02
Speaker 1: have to not already have cable, because so you don't
20:06
Speaker 1: like your teams enough to have to have cable. So
20:09
Speaker 1: then you're saying, Okay, I don't like them enough, so
20:11
Speaker 1: I don't have cable, so I'm not watching them now
20:13
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch them. And it's almost thirty bucks.
20:16
Speaker 1: I don't think people are doing that. Doesn't it's like
20:18
Speaker 1: it's not it's illogical. You have to get that price
20:21
Speaker 1: point lower, you know, obviously Manford totally would like to
20:25
Speaker 1: have all the teams under one streaming service, which does
20:28
Speaker 1: make some sense. But again, are you getting the casual
20:32
Speaker 1: fan because you have to bring them in. So it's
20:34
Speaker 1: a complicated equation. But they really haven't been smart about it.
20:38
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, you know what, they do
20:41
Speaker 1: have a pad hand, but they've been bad.
20:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm frustrated about it because I
20:45
Speaker 2: hear from people and I'm a consumer. But just one
20:47
Speaker 2: more to pile on here. So they take over the Twins,
20:50
Speaker 2: for example, they've taken over other teams too. What's the
20:52
Speaker 2: first thing that happens that gets buried in a press release?
20:55
Speaker 2: On the road, no more pregame shows on the road,
20:58
Speaker 2: postgame shows cut from thirty to fifteen. Now, that hurts
21:01
Speaker 2: your audience retention. And you're just saying, hey, we're gonna
21:03
Speaker 2: throw some generic league sponsored stuff at you. That's not
21:06
Speaker 2: what fans want. That's the stuff that bothers me Andrews.
21:09
Speaker 2: So anyway, appreciate it.
21:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got last word, you know, quality and also
21:19
Speaker 1: it's it's connecting with your fans. I mean, you have
21:21
Speaker 1: a better opportunity to do that than ever before. So
21:24
Speaker 1: I think we're on the same page. It'll be uh
21:27
Speaker 1: maybe I'll come back after they uh finally get to
21:29
Speaker 1: uh the next move, and we'll it'll be interesting to
21:32
Speaker 1: see what that is.
21:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see what that looks like, because they are
21:35
Speaker 2: obviously calling out ESPN. They think they've got better or
21:37
Speaker 2: at least something else in hand. So, Andrew, this was great,
21:40
Speaker 2: wanted to dive into this. Thanks for jumping on pretty
21:42
Speaker 2: quick and on the way out. Let everyone know how
21:45
Speaker 2: much you Obviously I've been listening to you, you know,
21:47
Speaker 2: back when you did the pod with with orand and
21:49
Speaker 2: obviously catch everything you do on here as well.
21:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrewmarshan dot com is where you subscribe you can listen.
21:55
Speaker 1: We talked about this topic both on Tuesday and Thursday.
22:00
Speaker 1: The next Tuesday, I think it's gonna be the lead again,
22:02
Speaker 1: so we talk about that a lot. And then also
22:04
Speaker 1: of course The Athletic, where I am honored to be
22:06
Speaker 1: teammates with the great Ken Rosenthal, so you can read
22:09
Speaker 1: me there all the time as well.
22:11
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly more in The Athletic and more on Andrewmasha
22:14
Speaker 2: dot com. Andrew, thank you, have a good week.
22:15
Speaker 1: Imm great. Thanks Phels