Latest / Faithful Fitness With Coach Alex VanHouten / Why the Church Should Care About Fitness

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Why the Church Should Care About Fitness · Faithful Fitness With Coach Alex VanHouten

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Speaker 1: Hey Faithful, welcome to the Faithful Fitness Podcast. In a moment,
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Speaker 1: my dad, Coach Alex Van Houten, will help you honor
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Speaker 1: God by making the most out of the body God's
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Speaker 1: given you. Today you can expect truth from the Bible,
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Speaker 1: tools from science, and guidance for everyday life. So listen
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Speaker 1: close and get ready. Let's get 1% better today.
0:26
Speaker 2: What's up Faithful? Coach Alex here. Grace and peace to you.
0:30
Speaker 2: This conversation with Travis Vaughn really encouraged me. Travis works
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Speaker 2: with Upward. If you've been around churches, sports, or kids
0:38
Speaker 2: ministry for very long, there's a good chance you've heard
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Speaker 2: of Upward. But this conversation was bigger than basketball. It
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Speaker 2: was bigger than running and bigger than one organization. What
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Speaker 2: stood out to me is how often God uses ordinary
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Speaker 2: physical spaces to create extraordinary spiritual opportunities. A gym, a field,
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Speaker 2: A starting line? A local 5K? A kid showing up
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Speaker 2: to play basketball? A parent that sits in the stands
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Speaker 2: and a runner trying to chase down a goal that
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Speaker 2: has taken seven years longer than he expected? Those things
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Speaker 2: might not look spiritual at first glance, but they are.
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Speaker 2: Because bodies are there. Families are there. Stories are there.
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Speaker 2: People are there. And wherever people are, There's an opportunity
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Speaker 2: to love, serve, encourage, disciple, and point hearts toward Jesus.
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Speaker 2: One of the things Travis and I talked about is
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Speaker 2: how fitness should never only be about us. Your body matters. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: your health matters too. And yeah, your goals matter. But eventually,
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Speaker 2: faithful fitness has to move outward. Your discipline should bless
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Speaker 2: your family. Your endurance should strengthen your calling. Your health
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Speaker 2: should help you serve. And your willingness to show up
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Speaker 2: in hard places may become the very thing that God
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Speaker 2: uses to open a door with someone else. That's what
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Speaker 2: I want you listening for in this episode. Not just
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Speaker 2: should I start running, and not just should my church
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Speaker 2: do sports ministry, but this. Where could God use my body,
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Speaker 2: my story, and my obedience to reach someone else? because
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Speaker 2: sometimes ministry looks like a sermon, and sometimes it looks
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Speaker 2: like showing up at the park, lacing up your shoes,
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Speaker 2: and being faithful with the next step. Before we jump in,
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Speaker 2: I want to invite you to take your own next
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Speaker 2: step with the Faithful Fitness Health and Habits profile. This
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Speaker 2: is our updated tool to help you honestly look at
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Speaker 2: your health, habits, fitness, faith, motivation, and stewardship. And when
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Speaker 2: you complete the dashboard, you'll also get a seat in
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Speaker 2: our live Next Steps seminar on November 4th with me
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Speaker 2: and my wife, Kristen. She's a registered dietitian, she's a mom,
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Speaker 2: and she brings a perspective to these conversations that I'm
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Speaker 2: really excited for you to hear. So, if you've been
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Speaker 2: feeling that nudge, and it's time to get honest, get focused,
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Speaker 2: and take the next faithful step, go check out that
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Speaker 2: Faithful Fitness Health and Habits profile. The link's in the
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Speaker 2: show notes. And now, without further ado, let's get to
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Speaker 2: this awesome conversation with Travis Vaughn, from upward. What's up, guys?
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Speaker 2: This is Coach Alex Van Houten on the Faithful Fitness Podcast.
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Speaker 2: I'm super excited to be hanging out with Travis Vaughn today,
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Speaker 2: and we're going to be talking about how to make
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Speaker 2: the most out of the body God's given you. Travis
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Speaker 2: is a new friend of mine. I just got to
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Speaker 2: have a conversation with him pre-show, but I know that
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Speaker 2: we're going to have a conversation that will help you
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Speaker 2: move forward both in your faith and fitness, but also
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Speaker 2: get you to think about the larger ramifications of what
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Speaker 2: it looks like for fitness in the church and and
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Speaker 2: our body, but I don't want to jump ahead of myself. Travis,
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Speaker 2: how are you doing today, brother?
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Speaker 3: I am thrilled to be here and happy to talk
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Speaker 3: with you and the overall audience here.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to dive right into it. We're going
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Speaker 2: to be talking about your run in the Boston Marathon.
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Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about Upward as an organization
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Speaker 2: that serves, if memory serves correct, 225,000 kids on a
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Speaker 2: national and maybe even international level in the world for
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Speaker 2: while pointing their hearts and minds to Jesus through sports,
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Speaker 2: which is amazing to me. And we're also going to
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Speaker 2: get to talk about what it means for our personal
4:30
Speaker 2: fitness to serve more than just ourselves. But I want
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Speaker 2: to dive right in here, man. Can you tell us
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Speaker 2: about what you do? You are the marketing director at Upward,
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Speaker 2: and I'm probably getting that wrong, but there's a lot more.
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Speaker 2: If anybody's ever worked with a nonprofit, you know that
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Speaker 2: you wear lots of hats. Your title is not just
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Speaker 2: your job description. It's just kind of your foot in
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Speaker 2: the door before there's all kinds of other stuff for
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Speaker 2: you to be up to. But can you tell us
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Speaker 2: about what you do at Upward and how you got
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Speaker 2: into doing that? And then we'll get into the larger
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Speaker 2: story in a bit.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're totally right on the nonprofit, wearing more
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Speaker 3: hats and picking up new ones and never putting any down.
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Speaker 3: That for sure happens. So I kind of look at it,
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Speaker 3: I oversee three and a half areas right now. And
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Speaker 3: I look at it in like the process of how
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Speaker 3: things are done at the organization. So we are data
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Speaker 3: driven and market research driven as an organization. So I
5:25
Speaker 3: oversee our market research department, which was a big, the
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Speaker 3: introduction of that back in 2018, really led to a
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Speaker 3: lot of the changes that has led to a turnaround
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Speaker 3: at Upward Sports since then. And so that part of
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Speaker 3: it leads into product development. So you find out what
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Speaker 3: people want to want and need, and then you go
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Speaker 3: develop those things that they want and need and want
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Speaker 3: to interact with. And then, so that's the product development
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Speaker 3: part of the job. And then there's the marketing side
5:54
Speaker 3: of the job. So you go and you tell people
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Speaker 3: about the thing that you made, and then you hand
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Speaker 3: that off to sales reps and service people and that
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Speaker 3: type of thing. And that's the other side of the
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Speaker 3: house that I'm kind of not a part of at
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Speaker 3: the organization. But those are the three main areas. In
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Speaker 3: recent years, I've also helped with our upper running initiative
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Speaker 3: as well. And so that's a passion project for me.
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Speaker 3: I'm a big runner myself, but those are the areas
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Speaker 3: that I help out here at Upper Sports.
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Speaker 2: I love that. And I know that for some people,
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Speaker 2: when they hear data-driven market research that they shut down.
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Speaker 2: They're like, okay, well, I mean, big information, blah, blah, blah.
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Speaker 2: But I want to quote a stat here that every
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Speaker 2: single Christian, whether you love sports and running and fitness
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Speaker 2: or not, if you don't, I'm so glad you're here.
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Speaker 2: I don't know why you made it, but I'm so
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Speaker 2: glad you're here. But every Christian should care about this.
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Speaker 2: And this is a big deal. I was going through,
6:50
Speaker 2: in preparation for this conversation, I was going through some numbers.
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Speaker 2: You helped me kind of update one of them, but
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Speaker 2: am I right in saying this, that out of the 225,000
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Speaker 2: kids who have come through Upward programs in the, if
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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, in the last year or last couple years,
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Speaker 2: that 41% of those kids who are showing up for basketball,
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Speaker 2: who are showing up for soccer, who are showing up
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Speaker 2: for volleyball, maybe showing up to the run group, whatever,
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Speaker 2: that 41% of them are not connected to a local
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Speaker 2: church and they're coming because with a Christ-centered organization to
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Speaker 2: play sports. Is that correct?
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Speaker 3: That is 100% correct. We control the registration software for
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Speaker 3: all of these sports experiences. That's one of the features
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Speaker 3: of working with us at Upper Sports. We include software, products, curriculum, training,
7:43
Speaker 3: all those things in a nutshell. And so one of
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Speaker 3: the questions we ask at registration is, who is your
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Speaker 3: home church? And 41% came through last year. And that
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Speaker 3: is in the last year, you're right about that. And
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Speaker 3: they either put nothing in that or NA in that.
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Speaker 2: Wow. So that just blows me away. That just blows
8:03
Speaker 2: me away, man. Because like, like I say this, but
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Speaker 2: I don't always have the data to go with it.
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Speaker 2: So I'm very grateful. Nobody should ever, ever glaze over
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Speaker 2: ever again about data-driven market research because, because this is,
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Speaker 2: this is amazing. four out of 10 kids showing up
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Speaker 2: to play basketball at the local church community upward project
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Speaker 2: are not currently attending church. And they're bringing, they're bringing,
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Speaker 2: you know, mom to practice. Dad shows up at games,
8:34
Speaker 2: you know, like it's a, they're, they're having conversations with,
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Speaker 2: with other, you know, the six out of 10 who
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Speaker 2: do go to church or like, Hey, we're part of
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Speaker 2: this sports team because it's in church and it's, you know,
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Speaker 2: Jesus centered and that sort of thing. I think that's
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Speaker 2: amazing for people to understand. I know in our church,
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Speaker 2: for instance, oftentimes it feels like we have to go
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Speaker 2: all the way to Peru for a missions project when
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Speaker 2: the kid who lives down the street is just as
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Speaker 2: much in need of Christian community and Christ's influence and
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Speaker 2: learning the gospel and just the experience of sports that
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Speaker 2: aren't sports for sports sake, sports for something even higher
9:15
Speaker 2: than sports. I think that's just amazing. And I'm grateful
9:19
Speaker 2: you guys do that sort of research so that we
9:21
Speaker 2: can eat. It's not exactly quantified for our community, but
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Speaker 2: I think that's something that's true, at least moderately true
9:31
Speaker 2: across the board for most communities.
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Speaker 3: Here's a couple other stats.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, bring it.
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Speaker 3: Every player brings, on average, three people to games.
9:39
Speaker 2: Wow.
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Speaker 3: Every church that engages with a league with us is
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Speaker 3: going to get $ 20. Plus touch points over the course
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Speaker 3: of three months to engage with that family. These are
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Speaker 3: families that would never walk through the sanctuary door, but
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Speaker 3: they're happy to walk through the gym door or through
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Speaker 3: the field gate and play the sport. And so you
9:58
Speaker 3: get to be a welcoming family. to that family, very
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Speaker 3: loving to them. And then the kids are going to
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Speaker 3: get to hear a devotion at every single practice. And
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Speaker 3: then the kids and parent, for most experiences, this isn't always,
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Speaker 3: sometimes for outdoor sports, it's hard to do that. But
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Speaker 3: for most experiences, they're going to get a game day
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Speaker 3: halftime devotion for the entirety of everyone that's involved there
10:21
Speaker 3: as well. And so this is meant to be an outreach.
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Speaker 3: You have to have the Christians who go to your
10:27
Speaker 3: church to be a part of it because they need
10:28
Speaker 3: to be your coaches and your volunteers. And those people
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Speaker 3: are going to be coaching and volunteer in whatever rec
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Speaker 3: league that they're going to be playing in their community anyway.
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Speaker 3: Might as well do it in your church where there's
10:40
Speaker 3: an opportunity to share the gospel throughout that year. And
10:43
Speaker 3: so that's how this all works. It's a perfect little
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Speaker 3: environment where you get both the Christians engaged in and
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Speaker 3: fulfilling the Great Commission while involving those who aren't churched
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Speaker 3: as well.
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Speaker 2: Man, that just jazzes me up so much. But I'm
10:57
Speaker 2: going to withhold my excitement for a moment because I
11:00
Speaker 2: do want to talk about why the church needs to
11:02
Speaker 2: care about fitness in a little bit. But I want
11:05
Speaker 2: to pull back the curtain and start with your personal
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Speaker 2: journey because we're going to talk about fitness. We're also
11:12
Speaker 2: going to talk about the church's role in bringing a
11:16
Speaker 2: stewardship vision discipleship-based fitness idea to the community at large
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Speaker 2: and what that means for outreach, what that means for
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Speaker 2: the growth of us as individuals. But you've had your
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Speaker 2: own personal fitness journey over the past, what, decade-ish, somewhere
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Speaker 2: in there, that really fuels both your passion for this
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Speaker 2: sort of work, but also, I would say, equips you
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Speaker 2: to do this sort of thing because this isn't for
11:44
Speaker 2: the faint of heart, right? So can you... Can you
11:47
Speaker 2: bring me back? You ran a Boston Marathon. That's no joke.
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Speaker 2: And you had to train your butt off to do so.
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Speaker 2: Can you bring me back? Why did you take on
11:56
Speaker 2: the Boston Marathon? Like, that's crazy town. I mean, no offense,
12:00
Speaker 2: but it's not easy. You got to qualify. You got
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Speaker 2: to run. Not only do you have to be able
12:05
Speaker 2: to run 26.2 miles, but you actually have to be
12:07
Speaker 2: able to run it in a certain amount of time.
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Speaker 2: And if you don't run it in that certain amount
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Speaker 2: of time, you don't get to go to the Boston Marathon.
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Speaker 2: And then you got to actually run the Boston Marathon.
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Speaker 2: with all the crazy Boston Marathon people. So tell me
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Speaker 2: about this, man. Where did the dream to do this
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Speaker 2: come from? And tell me about how you started training.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. So one quick thing. I have qualified for Boston.
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Speaker 3: I get to run it next spring.
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Speaker 2: Whoa. You still haven't run the crazy with the crazy people. Okay.
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Speaker 3: But I'm excited. I'm excited for that for sure.
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Speaker 2: Congratulations on qualifying though. That's no small feat. Great work.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. And I, and if you know anything about Boston,
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Speaker 3: there's this buffer situation and you never know exactly if
12:49
Speaker 3: you're getting in within the next week, I should know
12:52
Speaker 3: whether I got in, but all the stats show that
12:54
Speaker 3: there's going to be about a five minute buffer this year.
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Speaker 3: And I have, I'm seven minutes under the time. So
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Speaker 3: I should be, I'm not worried about it. It's going
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Speaker 3: to be all good there, but essentially it's, I ran
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Speaker 3: in high school. I was like super late to the game.
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Speaker 3: I had a coach that encouraged me to get into
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Speaker 3: distance running when I was trying to be a sprinter
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Speaker 3: and football player. And suddenly I was really good at it.
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Speaker 3: Good enough to go run in college and get it
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Speaker 3: paid for in a situation where I was not on
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Speaker 3: the path to even go to college. Like I couldn't
13:22
Speaker 3: have the job that I have today. Had I not
13:24
Speaker 3: found running, had a coach not saw something in me
13:27
Speaker 3: I couldn't have seen in myself. And through that, I
13:29
Speaker 3: was able to go to college, get a degree, get
13:32
Speaker 3: to do some good running along the way. But as
13:34
Speaker 3: soon as it was done, I didn't love the sport,
13:36
Speaker 3: I'd say. I would like see myself as a ballplayer,
13:39
Speaker 3: not a runner. I just happened to be good at running.
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Speaker 3: And so as soon as it was over, immediately stopped.
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Speaker 3: Like completely no more running. Like I did it because...
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Speaker 3: They paid the bills essentially, like almost like an athlete,
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Speaker 3: like a pro athlete mentality. You know, these are the
13:55
Speaker 3: things that's being required of me to get my schooling
13:58
Speaker 3: to be paid for. And now that's done, I'm done.
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Speaker 3: I like the accolades. I didn't like the work, you know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right. And how old were you at that point?
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Speaker 3: So this would have been in my, you know, 18
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Speaker 3: to 23 year old.
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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
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Speaker 3: But fast forward, you know, 10 plus years of not running,
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Speaker 3: I gained 90 pounds. You know, like I went from
14:22
Speaker 3: senior in college, best shape in my life, weighing about
14:25
Speaker 3: 140 pounds to 230 at one point in time. So
14:30
Speaker 3: I picked it back up as a man. I've let
14:33
Speaker 3: this thing go too far situation. I've got to get
14:35
Speaker 3: myself back in shape. I've got to shed some pounds here.
14:39
Speaker 3: And once I did lose some initial weight there, I
14:43
Speaker 3: saw some some success again, like, oh, I'm pretty good
14:46
Speaker 3: age group wise again. And so what is the North
14:49
Speaker 3: Star like? the everyday person's Olympics, it's the Boston Marathon.
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Speaker 3: It's like internationally, everyone wants to make the Boston Marathon
14:59
Speaker 3: because it sets the standard. It says, you know, for
15:02
Speaker 3: your age, if you can run this fast, you're one
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Speaker 3: of the best of the best in the world.
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Speaker 2: And so that.
15:08
Speaker 3: Became the goal. And I would have thought, honestly, I
15:11
Speaker 3: would have thought it would take me a year or
15:13
Speaker 3: two to like get there. But in the end, it
15:15
Speaker 3: took me a seven year journey to get that Boston
15:19
Speaker 3: qualifying time. Lots of ups and downs and starts and stops.
15:22
Speaker 3: And so, you know, eventually I got there.
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Speaker 2: So I want to drill down on two things first.
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Speaker 2: So for many of the people that I've worked with
15:30
Speaker 2: in my coaching career, there's a moment in time that
15:35
Speaker 2: tells them and it takes all forms and all shapes.
15:40
Speaker 2: And I would say that the Holy Spirit uses this
15:43
Speaker 2: moment to snap us out of neglecting our bodies. but
15:47
Speaker 2: there's a moment in time that says to a person, hey,
15:51
Speaker 2: you can't stop that. Like you've gained 90 pounds. Like
15:55
Speaker 2: you're done gaining 90 pounds. You can't keep doing this.
15:58
Speaker 2: Would you mind describing that moment? Because you said, hey,
16:02
Speaker 2: I noticed something was up. I made a change. But
16:04
Speaker 2: there was probably more to it than that.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just remember getting on the scale and seeing two,
16:11
Speaker 3: three something. I'm like, man, I just, I used to
16:14
Speaker 3: look at that people, that when I was in crazy
16:18
Speaker 3: good shape and go, how could you let yourself get
16:21
Speaker 3: to that point? And I was to that point. And like,
16:25
Speaker 3: I remember those internal conversations of, of myself that, that
16:29
Speaker 3: that was the case. And I just started a new family.
16:33
Speaker 3: Like I had been married for a few years, but
16:34
Speaker 3: we had just had a daughter and I knew that,
16:37
Speaker 3: you know, I need to, I need me doing things better.
16:40
Speaker 3: She's going to be looking at me and I need to, to,
16:43
Speaker 3: to get myself, back in shape. And I know one
16:46
Speaker 3: thing that might be able to do with this running
16:47
Speaker 3: thing might be able to help, but it's your diet too.
16:49
Speaker 3: Like you just have to get to that. Sometimes with
16:52
Speaker 3: upper running, we talk about, you have to get to
16:54
Speaker 3: that point where you are fed up and like, there's
16:58
Speaker 3: a fed up point. And until you get to that point,
17:00
Speaker 3: you might start diets and stop, or you might start
17:03
Speaker 3: running and stop. But when you get to that fed
17:06
Speaker 3: up point, you're like, all right, I'm doing this. That's
17:09
Speaker 3: when real, real change can happen.
17:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said. I say about you have a daughter.
17:14
Speaker 2: It sounds like, do you have more kids now?
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Speaker 3: Just one.
17:17
Speaker 2: Just the one girl? I have two boys. So I
17:20
Speaker 2: say about boys, if you're a boy dad, you're becoming
17:24
Speaker 2: the man that you want to teach your sons to
17:27
Speaker 2: be like, and they'll do what you do. But for
17:31
Speaker 2: the daughter, I would say that's almost scarier. And tell
17:34
Speaker 2: me what you think about this, because I don't have
17:36
Speaker 2: a daughter. But it's like you're becoming the man that
17:40
Speaker 2: you hope she marries someday. And so it's like, it's
17:44
Speaker 2: like a, in my mind, it's a huge responsibility.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think, I think setting a standard there.
17:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:52
Speaker 3: It's definitely part of that. One of the funny things
17:55
Speaker 3: I like to say is like, I go out and
17:58
Speaker 3: run 10 plus miles every Saturday morning. You know, that's
18:00
Speaker 3: just what is a part of my lifestyle. And so
18:03
Speaker 3: she's just starting to run a little bit.
18:05
Speaker 2: She's in sixth grade.
18:06
Speaker 3: She's doing this junior level, very entry level. I've not
18:10
Speaker 3: pushed running on her at all or anything like that.
18:12
Speaker 3: But I want her to show up at practice, you know,
18:15
Speaker 3: when she gets on the high school team and goes,
18:17
Speaker 3: we're only running three or four miles today. Like she's
18:19
Speaker 3: the only kid that thinks that because her dad runs
18:22
Speaker 3: way longer all the time.
18:23
Speaker 2: Like three miles. Well, this is easy. Yeah, yeah. I
18:26
Speaker 2: feel similarly about my son. He's also in sixth grade.
18:29
Speaker 2: And so he's gotten to run some 5Ks with me
18:32
Speaker 2: through the past couple of years. And so when they
18:35
Speaker 2: did a track and field day and the longest race
18:38
Speaker 2: was 100 meters, he's like, when are we going to
18:39
Speaker 2: break the short distance? They're like, what's going on? Where's
18:42
Speaker 2: the mile run? That's great. So I want to transition
18:48
Speaker 2: then from that point in your journey to this seven years.
18:51
Speaker 2: So there's an interesting story in the Old Testament where Jacob,
18:55
Speaker 2: he's Isaac's son, He steals the birthright, so to speak.
18:59
Speaker 2: It was kind of given to him. God talked to Rebecca.
19:02
Speaker 2: It's cloudy how it all went down. But Jacob ends
19:06
Speaker 2: up in his homeland, his father's homeland, his grandfather's homeland.
19:12
Speaker 2: And he meets this girl named Rachel. And he's smitten.
19:15
Speaker 2: He's like, Dad, I'm marrying her. And so he's got
19:19
Speaker 2: to talk to Rachel's dad. And he's like, if you
19:23
Speaker 2: work for me for seven years, she's all yours. And
19:25
Speaker 2: so he's just... Nose to the grindstone. And it actually
19:28
Speaker 2: says in Genesis that he was so in love with
19:31
Speaker 2: her that the seven years passed like just a few days.
19:36
Speaker 2: He didn't even notice, right? That is not at all
19:40
Speaker 2: what seven years training for the Boston Marathon feels like.
19:45
Speaker 2: There's not the girl I'm going to marry at the
19:47
Speaker 2: end of the tunnel. Sometimes a fitness journey is just
19:49
Speaker 2: a slog. It's hard sometimes week over week over week
19:54
Speaker 2: to be like, oh my gosh, have I made any
19:57
Speaker 2: progress whatsoever? You talked about the ups and downs. So
20:00
Speaker 2: I want to talk about that a little bit. Can
20:01
Speaker 2: you tell us about some times when in training for
20:03
Speaker 2: this Boston marathon, you see this North star it's motivated by,
20:08
Speaker 2: by getting in better shape for yourself, being there for
20:10
Speaker 2: your family, being a good father. I think all these
20:13
Speaker 2: things are wonderful things, but that's not always sunshine and
20:16
Speaker 2: rainbows when you're training for something like this. And it
20:18
Speaker 2: takes seven whole years. So, so tell me a bit
20:21
Speaker 2: about some of the obstacles you ran up against.
20:24
Speaker 3: I mean, there's, there's multiple stories in 2021. I was
20:29
Speaker 3: training for the California international marathon. It's called CIM in Sacramento.
20:34
Speaker 3: It's a good course that a lot of people run
20:37
Speaker 3: fast on. They've had, you know, different national championships on
20:40
Speaker 3: that course before. And so I was in really good shape.
20:44
Speaker 3: Like I had started working with a coach and, and
20:47
Speaker 3: all of it was lining up and I started getting
20:50
Speaker 3: a terrible Achilles tendonitis, which would eventually turn into like tendinopathy.
20:55
Speaker 3: It got my, my whole Achilles swole. Like, I don't
21:00
Speaker 3: think I'm exaggerating to twice the size as it should
21:02
Speaker 3: have been. And I knew I was in aerobically and
21:06
Speaker 3: muscle wise, I was in such great shape. I didn't
21:09
Speaker 3: want to stop. And so I kept running on it
21:11
Speaker 3: and it kept getting worse and worse and just grinding
21:13
Speaker 3: it out. And I didn't know if I would take
21:16
Speaker 3: a few days off here and there the month before,
21:18
Speaker 3: but I felt like aerobically, like if I can just
21:22
Speaker 3: get to the line, I can gut it out. I
21:24
Speaker 3: can run the BQ here. This is going to be
21:26
Speaker 3: This is going to be great. And so I start
21:29
Speaker 3: that race and it's got some rolling hills early in
21:33
Speaker 3: that race. And every time I was going up, the
21:36
Speaker 3: pain meter on that Achilles is just getting worse and
21:39
Speaker 3: worse and worse and worse. And at mile 17, I
21:42
Speaker 3: literally can't step on my heel anymore. I'm like off
21:45
Speaker 3: the toe. And so I stopped and I called my
21:48
Speaker 3: wife who was there and said, you don't have to
21:49
Speaker 3: come pick me up. I don't think I can walk.
21:52
Speaker 3: to the finish at this point in time. It was
21:53
Speaker 3: just like a, we'd flew all the way from South
21:55
Speaker 3: Carolina to California to go do this thing. And you know,
22:00
Speaker 3: that one was tough. There was, there's another one two
22:03
Speaker 3: years later, I'm running a random normal morning run. I
22:09
Speaker 3: feel something a little bit odd, but like not, not
22:12
Speaker 3: like super terrible or anything. I get in the car,
22:16
Speaker 3: I'm driving to a meeting after I get showered off
22:19
Speaker 3: and all that. And I can't stand when I get
22:21
Speaker 3: out of the car, basically. I can't put any weight
22:24
Speaker 3: on it. It comes out. I tore the root of
22:26
Speaker 3: my meniscus, which connects the meniscus to your leg.
22:29
Speaker 2: On the bottom side.
22:32
Speaker 3: And I had to have reconstruction surgery of that meniscus there.
22:37
Speaker 3: And it was just like a degenerative thing. I didn't
22:39
Speaker 3: step wrong. I didn't fall.
22:41
Speaker 2: I hate injuries like that. I wish there was a
22:43
Speaker 2: cool story. I fought a bear, and now my knee
22:45
Speaker 2: doesn't work, you know?
22:47
Speaker 3: Normally when you have a root meniscus tear, that's like
22:50
Speaker 3: a football injury where you also tear the ACL and
22:53
Speaker 3: MCL and the root to the meniscus. It's rare to
22:56
Speaker 3: have like a single root meniscus tear. And so I
23:00
Speaker 3: was in a locked knee brace for 90 days and
23:03
Speaker 3: had to work my way back from that one. So
23:05
Speaker 3: those are two examples of just like really frustrating times,
23:09
Speaker 3: but there's a couple others as well.
23:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, I think this is really important
23:14
Speaker 2: to me because you know, I, I talk about fitness
23:17
Speaker 2: a lot and I work, I work with a lot
23:19
Speaker 2: of individuals with regard to health and fitness. And, and
23:22
Speaker 2: what I've noticed is every fitness journey, doesn't matter what
23:26
Speaker 2: your goal is. I don't care if you're trying to
23:28
Speaker 2: run the Boston marathon, lose a hundred pounds, or you're
23:30
Speaker 2: just trying to get off a few medications because you've
23:33
Speaker 2: noticed you've taken too many. And, and you're, and you're like, man,
23:37
Speaker 2: my dad died at 55 of a heart attack. I'm
23:39
Speaker 2: not going down this road. You know, whatever the, whatever
23:41
Speaker 2: your fitness goal is, it, It never is sunshine and rainbows.
23:45
Speaker 2: You never, you never, I've never, I've been in this
23:48
Speaker 2: for a long time. I've never met anybody who's like,
23:51
Speaker 2: you know what? I made a decision and I just
23:53
Speaker 2: got in great shape. Took like a year. Everything's great.
23:55
Speaker 2: I'm still good and everything's fine. It doesn't work that way.
23:58
Speaker 2: You like slam your head into brick walls regularly like that. Like, hey,
24:02
Speaker 2: I was training. I'm going to run on a fast course.
24:06
Speaker 2: I've booked. I mean, that's a big deal to book
24:08
Speaker 2: a cross-country air travel with your wife. to run a race.
24:13
Speaker 2: I don't know. Does your wife like races? I could
24:15
Speaker 2: imagine my wife's like, you owe me big if I'm
24:17
Speaker 2: going to stand here for 12 hours while you run.
24:21
Speaker 3: That's such a great question because when I first started
24:23
Speaker 3: getting into this, she was like, we're doing what?
24:28
Speaker 2: You want me to go to.
24:30
Speaker 3: She's a part of the conversation now. That's good. We're
24:34
Speaker 3: trying to make it a fun trip where we can.
24:36
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. We like being married. We're going to
24:38
Speaker 2: make this enjoyable for each of us. Yeah, that's great.
24:39
Speaker 2: And so, you know, it's a big deal. And then
24:41
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you hit this, you hit this
24:44
Speaker 2: setback Achilles, right? And I don't care if it's your Achilles,
24:46
Speaker 2: your elbow, your neck, you know, I don't know what
24:49
Speaker 2: happens after 35, but sometimes you can just get injured
24:52
Speaker 2: in your sleep. Like you just wake up and you're like,
24:55
Speaker 2: that was working when I went to bed and now
24:57
Speaker 2: it's not working anymore. Like what was going on? And
25:00
Speaker 2: so every single person I've ever worked with comes up
25:03
Speaker 2: against these, I, they're not just setbacks. I would say
25:06
Speaker 2: they kind of dig down into your soul and say, hey,
25:09
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't right for you. Maybe this is a
25:12
Speaker 2: waste of your time. Maybe you should stop, right? There's
25:15
Speaker 2: all those things internally. And you might even have some extra,
25:18
Speaker 2: you might even have people in your life who are like,
25:19
Speaker 2: you know, you're getting a little old for this, right? Or, hey,
25:23
Speaker 2: one surgery is enough. How many more do you want
25:25
Speaker 2: to have? There's this verse in the New Testament. Jesus
25:29
Speaker 2: makes this, everything Jesus says is important, okay? You know,
25:32
Speaker 2: the red letters are The red letters matter. The people
25:35
Speaker 2: who wrote them thought they were important with the inspiration
25:37
Speaker 2: of the Holy Spirit. They've survived thousands of years to
25:40
Speaker 2: this point. The red letters matter. Jesus says this in Luke.
25:43
Speaker 2: He says, no man who puts his hands to the
25:47
Speaker 2: plow and turns away from it is fit for the
25:51
Speaker 2: kingdom of heaven. And I'm not saying this has everything
25:54
Speaker 2: to do with training for a Boston Marathon and not
25:56
Speaker 2: giving up on it. But there is an element of
25:59
Speaker 2: fitness that teaches that. that says, hey, it's not just
26:03
Speaker 2: I'm going to check out the field, or hey, it'd
26:05
Speaker 2: be really cool if we planted something here. I put
26:08
Speaker 2: my hands to the plow. What that means is I've
26:10
Speaker 2: gotten to work. I've started the hard work of doing
26:13
Speaker 2: this thing. I don't know if you've ever plowed a
26:17
Speaker 2: field before. You don't get to stop in the middle
26:19
Speaker 2: of it. If you stop, you've got to restart, because
26:21
Speaker 2: after a few days, the plowing's not done, and now
26:23
Speaker 2: you can't plant. You get started, and you don't get
26:27
Speaker 2: to stop. Like once you have committed to the good
26:30
Speaker 2: work of doing something, you don't get to stop. In
26:32
Speaker 2: your experience, both personally, but also professionally, I think this
26:35
Speaker 2: has something to do with your work at Upward. What
26:38
Speaker 2: is it that helps people not stop? When you come
26:42
Speaker 2: up against that thing, you just keep slamming your head
26:45
Speaker 2: into the brick wall of an Achilles issue or a
26:47
Speaker 2: meniscus tear or something along those lines. You have to
26:50
Speaker 2: recover from surgery and you're like, no, I'm going to
26:52
Speaker 2: run again. It's just a matter of time and stubborn determination. perseverance, right?
26:58
Speaker 2: What is it that helps people keep on the path,
27:01
Speaker 2: keep the hands to the plow?
27:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's two things, but they go hand
27:05
Speaker 3: in hand. It's knowing your why. Why are you doing this?
27:09
Speaker 3: Why is it important to you? When the going gets tough,
27:12
Speaker 3: either in an individual run or in an individual race
27:15
Speaker 3: or a big setback, why are you doing this? Why
27:18
Speaker 3: is it important for you to do it? And being
27:20
Speaker 3: able to articulate that, like tell someone that or write
27:23
Speaker 3: it in a journal or something along those lines, I
27:27
Speaker 3: think that's very important when you talk about big goals.
27:30
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is goals. Like what is
27:33
Speaker 3: the goal and have you achieved the goal? And if
27:35
Speaker 3: you haven't achieved the goal for me, like, like I
27:38
Speaker 3: feel like if you were to look at me and
27:41
Speaker 3: what are the drivers of me personally in all aspects
27:44
Speaker 3: of my life, it is, if I say I'm going
27:46
Speaker 3: to do it, I'm going to do it. And if
27:48
Speaker 3: I say it to myself, it has the same, the
27:50
Speaker 3: same effect as if I say to someone else, if
27:52
Speaker 3: I say I'm going to run a Boston qualifying time,
27:55
Speaker 3: or I'm going to give my best effort I can
27:57
Speaker 3: possibly do to run a Boston qualifying time, then I
28:01
Speaker 3: hold myself to that level of accountability. But until it's done,
28:06
Speaker 3: there isn't an option B.
28:08
Speaker 2: You know? Yep. That's very well said. Jesus would have said,
28:12
Speaker 2: let your yes be yes and your no be no.
28:14
Speaker 2: If you said you're going to do it, even to yourself,
28:17
Speaker 2: if you said you're going to do it, you got
28:19
Speaker 2: to give it your best effort. That's awesome. Thank you
28:24
Speaker 2: for for sharing that. So I want to transition from
28:28
Speaker 2: the personal fitness journey that you've been on, because I
28:31
Speaker 2: think it's awesome that even though it's taken seven years,
28:34
Speaker 2: qualifying for the Boston Marathon is no joke. And I
28:36
Speaker 2: hope by the time that this podcast is published, you
28:39
Speaker 2: have let us know that you made it. That'd be,
28:42
Speaker 2: that'd be great. Cause you get to find out in
28:44
Speaker 2: the next week, you said somewhere around that.
28:46
Speaker 3: And you might be interested to know I've ran the
28:49
Speaker 3: qualifying time last October and in Columbus, Ohio on a
28:52
Speaker 3: day where a front was coming through exactly the time
28:56
Speaker 3: the race starts.
28:57
Speaker 2: Whoa.
28:58
Speaker 3: They had 20 to 40 mile per hour sustained winds
29:00
Speaker 3: for the entirety of it. And it could not be
29:03
Speaker 3: raining harder than it was.
29:05
Speaker 2: Words conditions to run your best time.
29:07
Speaker 3: And honestly, in the moment I thought to myself, you know,
29:10
Speaker 3: just like Jocko, if you ever listened to that guy
29:13
Speaker 3: talk about good, this makes the story better.
29:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:17
Speaker 3: This has been a long journey all along. This makes
29:19
Speaker 3: the story better. Bring it on. I got it.
29:22
Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. That's like the disciples in the
29:24
Speaker 2: boat when the storm comes along and Jesus is walking
29:27
Speaker 2: on water. The story is way better that way. That's great, man.
29:31
Speaker 2: So upward is, I'm going to try to describe it
29:35
Speaker 2: the best I understand, but you correct me because you've
29:37
Speaker 2: been working on this for a while. Upward is a
29:39
Speaker 2: nonprofit organization that helps churches use recreational activity to both
29:47
Speaker 2: serve the community, but also to, I would say, to
29:51
Speaker 2: engage with the community. And there's probably more to it
29:54
Speaker 2: than that. But as I understand it, this started way
29:57
Speaker 2: back in the 90s, way back as if we're that old.
30:00
Speaker 2: But anyway, way back in the 90s. And it was
30:02
Speaker 2: extremely popular and growing rapidly until probably about the mid 2010s,
30:09
Speaker 2: somewhere in there. And then it started to decline significantly.
30:13
Speaker 2: And then in just the past few years, through I'm
30:17
Speaker 2: sure a lot of blood, sweat and tears we won't
30:20
Speaker 2: see behind the scenes, Upward is making a comeback in
30:23
Speaker 2: a bunch of different ways. So So I want to
30:25
Speaker 2: talk a bit about how did you get started with
30:28
Speaker 2: Upward and why have you continued to stay with it?
30:32
Speaker 2: Because you were with the organization, as I understand it,
30:35
Speaker 2: while it was in decline as well. Why have you
30:37
Speaker 2: continued to stay with it? And then we'll talk about
30:39
Speaker 2: Turning Points and what you guys are up to now. Yeah.
30:42
Speaker 3: So we were founded in 1995 here in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
30:48
Speaker 3: Kaz McCaslin was a basketball director who had a massive
30:53
Speaker 3: basketball league at a single church, and it was doing
30:57
Speaker 3: so well, he was challenged to go teach other churches
30:59
Speaker 3: how to do this. And that's how Upward Sports started originally.
31:05
Speaker 3: From 95 to 2010, really year over year, exponential growth
31:11
Speaker 3: was doing great. During that time, some things changed, like
31:15
Speaker 3: the internet and Amazon and systems that manage league management
31:20
Speaker 3: and registration and access to products and apparel and things
31:25
Speaker 3: like that. And so I think we had a hard
31:28
Speaker 3: time transitioning as an organization from, hey, if you follow
31:32
Speaker 3: these things, we can help you have a successful sports
31:36
Speaker 3: ministry at your church to what we are now, which is, hey,
31:41
Speaker 3: what can we learn from you so that we can
31:43
Speaker 3: build the best possible sports ministry for everyone? So it's
31:46
Speaker 3: a little different mentality shift there. So from 2010 to 2020,
31:51
Speaker 3: We went on a 10-year decline as an organization, nearly
31:54
Speaker 3: lost half of the participants that we once had on
31:58
Speaker 3: an annual basis. And it really got to a dangerous
32:01
Speaker 3: part as part of the organization there. So I started
32:05
Speaker 3: in 2013 with the organization as a project manager. I'd
32:09
Speaker 3: watched the Upward Job Board for a number of years.
32:12
Speaker 3: It was in town. I'm a sports nut and a Christian.
32:15
Speaker 3: And I just always thought, like, if anything ever comes
32:17
Speaker 3: open at that company, I'd love to be a part
32:20
Speaker 3: of it. And so one, a job, that position came
32:23
Speaker 3: open and I started there. In 2018, we went through
32:26
Speaker 3: some major transition at the organization. And so that's where
32:29
Speaker 3: I was asked to start a market research department, which
32:33
Speaker 3: is my first kind of area that I started working with.
32:36
Speaker 3: And then that information that we learned there really led
32:40
Speaker 3: to a lot of the structural, organizational and just overall
32:43
Speaker 3: changes that we've made. that has led to growth the
32:46
Speaker 3: last five years as an organization. I can get into
32:48
Speaker 3: what some of that is if you like, but that's the,
32:51
Speaker 3: I think, answers your question so far.
32:55
Speaker 2: And for you personally, why stay with it? Because it's
32:59
Speaker 2: one thing to be a part of an organization that
33:01
Speaker 2: you've admired and that you're looking forward to being a
33:03
Speaker 2: part of, watching the job board, so to speak, that's growing.
33:06
Speaker 2: It's another thing altogether to be a part of an
33:08
Speaker 2: organization when you see that it's not headed in the
33:11
Speaker 2: right direction. And it doesn't mean it's bad. It doesn't
33:14
Speaker 2: mean the people working for it are bad or anything
33:15
Speaker 2: like that. It just means that the market's not picking
33:19
Speaker 2: up what you're putting down.
33:21
Speaker 3: Sure.
33:21
Speaker 2: Right. And in a nonprofit, and you can correct me
33:25
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong here, because I work with my church.
33:28
Speaker 2: I don't work for my church. But what I've noticed
33:31
Speaker 2: is a nonprofit is often not very attuned with market forces,
33:35
Speaker 2: meaning that if I run a business and I lose
33:39
Speaker 2: a lot of revenue this year, I turn on a
33:41
Speaker 2: dime to change that because I've got taxes to pay
33:44
Speaker 2: and my market's telling me something and I got to
33:46
Speaker 2: change this. In a nonprofit, oftentimes a way of doing
33:50
Speaker 2: things that's not working anymore can stick around a lot longer.
33:53
Speaker 2: Seems like the market forces take a while before anybody says, hey,
33:57
Speaker 2: we're losing participants. Something's awry with how we're doing things here.
34:01
Speaker 2: So can you talk to me? And I could be wrong,
34:03
Speaker 2: so please correct me if that's the truth. But I've
34:06
Speaker 2: noticed that in nonprofit organizations, churches and otherwise. that they
34:09
Speaker 2: seemed a little slower to respond to market forces. But also,
34:13
Speaker 2: why would you continue working with your company? If you
34:16
Speaker 2: saw that it was in decline, where did you notice
34:19
Speaker 2: that you had a role in that?
34:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I've never been asked that
34:23
Speaker 3: one before. So good job on that one. I think,
34:28
Speaker 3: I'll say, I think we've always been a very professional organization.
34:31
Speaker 3: There are things that we do better today from a
34:34
Speaker 3: market research or data standpoint than we did in the past.
34:38
Speaker 3: I think in the decline, we were trying things to
34:43
Speaker 3: fix it or to get into new areas that we
34:47
Speaker 3: just didn't have a disciplined pilot, development, release strategy. And
34:54
Speaker 3: so we're kind of through time, money, energy at things.
34:58
Speaker 3: And we, instead of slowly working our way into it, we...
35:03
Speaker 3: just went all in on it, hoping it was right.
35:05
Speaker 3: And it wasn't always right there. And so as to
35:08
Speaker 3: why I stuck with it there, here's someone was, I
35:12
Speaker 3: was naive. I was not in a leadership position until
35:17
Speaker 3: that 2018 point to really, to be knowledgeable enough about
35:22
Speaker 3: the situation we were in. And so that was information
35:25
Speaker 3: kind of above me. And then once I was in it, well,
35:28
Speaker 3: then I could be an agent of change and, I
35:31
Speaker 3: could be someone who is a part of fixing this
35:35
Speaker 3: thing and trying to figure it out and really like
35:38
Speaker 3: a legacy builder of what, what Upward Sports is in
35:42
Speaker 3: the long-term history of the organization. And that's inspiring to me.
35:46
Speaker 3: Like that's something I want to be a part of.
35:48
Speaker 3: And so I remember we sat down with a consultant
35:52
Speaker 3: in that 2018 when I was just moving into more
35:55
Speaker 3: leadership type positions and our interim executive director at the
35:59
Speaker 3: time said, we've got about 18 months to figure this out,
36:02
Speaker 3: or I don't know what's going to happen to Upwork.
36:03
Speaker 3: And my eyes were like, what? I had no idea.
36:07
Speaker 2: This is news to you. Yeah.
36:09
Speaker 3: I literally didn't know. And so that's what I was like,
36:12
Speaker 3: all right, well, let's get to work. Let's fix this thing.
36:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
36:15
Speaker 3: Largely we did.
36:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well said. Information is very powerful, but in the
36:20
Speaker 2: fitness world, information can be something that we either act
36:23
Speaker 2: on or feels overwhelming to us. And then we can
36:27
Speaker 2: we can kind of clam up and kind of hope
36:30
Speaker 2: for the best. And it sounds like for you, that
36:34
Speaker 2: information was both inspiring, but also activating for your gifts.
36:40
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
36:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. What a way to be an agent
36:43
Speaker 2: of change. In the last four years, you guys have
36:45
Speaker 2: grown significantly. And I'm particularly excited. I did, again, in
36:49
Speaker 2: preparation for this conversation, I was surprised to learn that
36:52
Speaker 2: Upward is As an organization, basketball is your big thing. Like, man,
36:58
Speaker 2: it's something about basketball and churches really. And you guys
37:01
Speaker 2: do a bunch of other stuff, don't get me wrong,
37:02
Speaker 2: but just as a portion of what your company touches
37:07
Speaker 2: and the kids who come through that. But I'm really
37:09
Speaker 2: excited that you guys have recently launched this Upward Running.
37:13
Speaker 2: Can you tell me about Upward Running and kind of
37:16
Speaker 2: the heart behind that and how it's going so far?
37:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Upward Running is our first step into adult sports.
37:22
Speaker 3: It's our first step into an individual sport as well.
37:25
Speaker 3: Everything else we've done previously is a team-based situation. We
37:32
Speaker 3: were working with a company called Run for God originally.
37:35
Speaker 3: They were based out of Dalton, Georgia, and they were
37:37
Speaker 3: a small organization that really just didn't have quite the
37:41
Speaker 3: resourcing that a company like Upward would have. And we
37:45
Speaker 3: decided to merge together a couple of years ago. So
37:49
Speaker 3: the expertise that came from the Run for God staff,
37:52
Speaker 3: which we rebranded to Upward Running just to keep it
37:56
Speaker 3: all within the same umbrella, was the was the way
37:59
Speaker 3: we stepped into it. We could have probably developed it
38:01
Speaker 3: on our own, but like with what expertise and what
38:07
Speaker 3: people behind it, when there was a natural place to
38:10
Speaker 3: work with people who had already been doing it for
38:12
Speaker 3: about 10 years at the time. And so that's how,
38:15
Speaker 3: from a business standpoint, how we stepped into it.
38:18
Speaker 2: Since then, you know, I think that.
38:19
Speaker 3: There's a lot of market pushback in this area, which is,
38:25
Speaker 3: it is, we are... making progress in upward running but
38:30
Speaker 3: it is slower than we would have thought i remember
38:32
Speaker 3: when i was watching the nfl last december and their
38:37
Speaker 3: ad was pop it's nfl football chat gbt's ad is
38:43
Speaker 3: how to how to run a 5k and it like
38:45
Speaker 3: puts out how to run a 5k from a chat
38:48
Speaker 3: gbt standpoint and and honestly chat gbt can do that
38:52
Speaker 3: at a base level i'm sure yeah yeah you know
38:56
Speaker 3: For people who are in the fitness area, there's nuance
39:00
Speaker 3: to it and there's different pieces that you can learn
39:03
Speaker 3: from and do it safely and hopefully stay away from
39:07
Speaker 3: injuries and things like that. And so we're coming into
39:10
Speaker 3: this space at a unique time in the history of fitness.
39:13
Speaker 3: You could probably talk to this better than even I
39:16
Speaker 3: could on this. And so we're still trying to find
39:19
Speaker 3: what the perfect niche and market is for us as
39:23
Speaker 3: an organization as it relates to upper running. And so
39:26
Speaker 3: I say all that to say that we're still figuring
39:28
Speaker 3: it out. We're still doing what we can to get
39:30
Speaker 3: this thing running and rolling. We're providing seven days a
39:34
Speaker 3: week curriculum, whether that's running curriculum, ministry curriculum, or curriculum
39:39
Speaker 3: or kind of conversations with other team members within the
39:42
Speaker 3: run club. I think that's important. And we provide training
39:46
Speaker 3: from get into the 5K for the first time. We've
39:50
Speaker 3: trained over 200,000 people to run their first 5K between
39:53
Speaker 3: Run for God and Upward Running in the history. And
39:56
Speaker 3: then we can train people all the way up to
39:58
Speaker 3: Boston Marathon type performances. So I think we can meet
40:02
Speaker 3: people wherever they are on that journey.
40:04
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's awesome. A little bit of
40:06
Speaker 2: backstory for us recently, we just did our first in-person
40:10
Speaker 2: event as Faithful Fitness for our organization. It was on
40:14
Speaker 2: my heart that that the work that we do in
40:17
Speaker 2: the online space and in the coaching space could be
40:21
Speaker 2: tangible in the community. And so it's been on my
40:23
Speaker 2: heart for a couple of years to do an event.
40:25
Speaker 2: We have a small town here, Greenbrow, Arkansas. It's about 12,000-ish people.
40:29
Speaker 2: But man, we've got some churches. We've got probably 22,
40:32
Speaker 2: something like that, in probably a 20-mile radius around here.
40:36
Speaker 2: I'm making that up, but it's an informed hypothesis because
40:40
Speaker 2: I actually had to count these churches out when I
40:42
Speaker 2: was calling them to be a part of our event,
40:44
Speaker 2: the Faithful 5K. And so we launched a 5K event
40:48
Speaker 2: and got people together. And it was interesting on a
40:50
Speaker 2: couple fronts. First, we've been working with adult fitness with
40:55
Speaker 2: regard to a faith-based organization for five years now. And
41:01
Speaker 2: it's an interesting space because if I open a basketball
41:04
Speaker 2: court for a bunch of kids, parents from all different
41:08
Speaker 2: walks of life want to bring their kid to that.
41:10
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with my parent fitness level.
41:12
Speaker 2: They can sit in the stands. But when you start
41:14
Speaker 2: inviting adults to be a part of athletics, of stewardship,
41:18
Speaker 2: of cardiovascular exercise, now I've entered a space where it's
41:23
Speaker 2: not so simple anymore. I've entered a space where kids
41:27
Speaker 2: wrestle with vanity and pride and stuff just like anybody
41:31
Speaker 2: else does, but not at such a sophisticated level. So
41:34
Speaker 2: one of the things we found was it was difficult
41:37
Speaker 2: to get a common language across the fitness landscape that
41:41
Speaker 2: was deeply rooted in good theology. Because even something as
41:46
Speaker 2: awesome as running a Boston marathon can become its own idol,
41:49
Speaker 2: can become its own pride thing, right? So as an organization,
41:53
Speaker 2: I sat down and wrote a devotional to help adults
41:58
Speaker 2: understand what their personal fitness actually has to do with
42:03
Speaker 2: executing their faith. And so that's something we ran into
42:06
Speaker 2: that was difficult. But the other thing I ran into,
42:08
Speaker 2: and I'm curious about your experience with this, is once
42:11
Speaker 2: you start getting into the realm of adult fitness, it's
42:14
Speaker 2: not very easy to rally churches together on that front.
42:20
Speaker 2: It's one thing to be the church who has a
42:22
Speaker 2: basketball court in town and everybody's willing to come bring
42:26
Speaker 2: their kids to use your basketball court. Or it's another
42:28
Speaker 2: thing to be the church who hosts the soccer thing
42:31
Speaker 2: in the field or whatever. But when you get a
42:33
Speaker 2: group of people together for an event, And there's no
42:36
Speaker 2: single church's name across the board. It's just, hey, we're
42:39
Speaker 2: all here and we all love Jesus and we all
42:41
Speaker 2: like to run. And whether you're a walker or a runner,
42:44
Speaker 2: we need you here. I found personally, I found that
42:46
Speaker 2: to be very, very difficult. I found churches that were
42:50
Speaker 2: more willing to send teams to Peru than to the
42:53
Speaker 2: local park to pray over people and to do a 5K.
42:57
Speaker 2: And that's not an indictment. It was a first year
42:59
Speaker 2: opportunity and stuff. But I'm curious. Have you run into
43:02
Speaker 2: either one of those issues, the language around fitness being
43:06
Speaker 2: rooted in something real rather than the vanity and confusion
43:11
Speaker 2: of the health and fitness industry, or the difficulty of
43:14
Speaker 2: getting churches on board for adult fitness versus being willing
43:20
Speaker 2: to do it for the kids, so to speak?
43:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such an interesting topic there. Because we find
43:29
Speaker 3: with Upward Sports... The primary way of running one of
43:33
Speaker 3: our league programs is a self-contained. You, the church that
43:38
Speaker 3: is engaged with us, run it on your own and
43:41
Speaker 3: invite those around you. We do have a partnership built
43:45
Speaker 3: in and there are plenty of those around the country too,
43:47
Speaker 3: but there are two different types of leaders as it
43:52
Speaker 3: relates to those types of churches. Those who are doing
43:56
Speaker 3: it and in whether they explicitly say it or not,
44:00
Speaker 3: they hope that they grow their church numbers as.
44:03
Speaker 2: Part of it.
44:04
Speaker 3: And why not? Like, I think that's a, that's a
44:05
Speaker 3: fine way of going about it. It's a different type
44:08
Speaker 3: of leader that says I'm kingdom focused. And I don't
44:11
Speaker 3: care if you come to our church or another church,
44:14
Speaker 3: we just want to plant seeds on fertile ground. Like
44:17
Speaker 3: we're talking about the Bible and, and let the Holy
44:20
Speaker 3: spirit work from there.
44:21
Speaker 2: Right.
44:22
Speaker 3: So I think that learning on the, on the, sports
44:26
Speaker 3: or children's side also probably applies to getting churches together
44:31
Speaker 3: on anything else, whether that be local missions or adult
44:36
Speaker 3: fitness or anything like that. I've also found with this
44:42
Speaker 3: adult running fitness type thing, it seems like churches look
44:46
Speaker 3: at fitness and they go, well, that's kind of someone
44:49
Speaker 3: part of everyone's personal life. journey. And like, we, you know,
44:53
Speaker 3: we're not a part of that. Like we want to
44:55
Speaker 3: influence him on a spiritual standpoint, but anything that steps
44:58
Speaker 3: out beyond that where it's not our role. And I
45:02
Speaker 3: think there's a, there's a question as to whether that's
45:04
Speaker 3: the right approach or not.
45:06
Speaker 2: It's not, I'm just, I'm just saying it out loud.
45:10
Speaker 2: If that's you, it's not stop it. Sorry. Go ahead.
45:13
Speaker 2: That's not your opinion. That's mine. Sure. No.
45:15
Speaker 3: And I think that, um, Maybe our messaging people like
45:19
Speaker 3: you and I who are in this where faith and
45:21
Speaker 3: fitness meet place here needs to articulate why that shouldn't
45:27
Speaker 3: be the case and why it's important for people to
45:30
Speaker 3: be fitness minded and in better shape and engaging with
45:35
Speaker 3: others while they're along that journey.
45:38
Speaker 2: Well, and for me, this is the deep, deep question.
45:41
Speaker 2: We cited something at the very beginning of this through
45:43
Speaker 2: the data-driven conversation about that 41% of the kids showing
45:48
Speaker 2: up to these sports events and on average bringing three
45:51
Speaker 2: people to their event, right? That they're not connected to
45:55
Speaker 2: a local church. I'm not saying maybe they don't believe
45:57
Speaker 2: the Bible or maybe they've never heard of Jesus or anything.
45:59
Speaker 2: I'm just saying self-report. They're saying, I am currently not
46:03
Speaker 2: connected to a local church. They're saying, I'm not connected
46:06
Speaker 2: to a community. And that's a biblical idea. The reason
46:09
Speaker 2: the church exists is in part because we don't follow
46:12
Speaker 2: Jesus alone. It was never about that. Like, Definitely, it's
46:16
Speaker 2: an individual relationship with God. But that has ramifications for
46:20
Speaker 2: our families and has ramifications for our communities. And even
46:23
Speaker 2: beyond that, in business and government and all the stuff,
46:26
Speaker 2: there's a larger concentric circle of influence that happens when
46:30
Speaker 2: the kingdom of heaven breaks through for one person. And
46:34
Speaker 2: so when we say something like 41% of the kids
46:38
Speaker 2: showing up to an event, and I saw this in
46:40
Speaker 2: the Faithful 5K, we only had, it was the first
46:43
Speaker 2: event ever. relatively small town in Arkansas. I don't know
46:46
Speaker 2: how South Carolina is, but we don't rank real high
46:48
Speaker 2: in the whole fitness thing. We think fried okra is
46:52
Speaker 2: still a vegetable. And we still have a lot of
46:55
Speaker 2: work to do on that front. We had 165 people there.
47:00
Speaker 2: And of those 165 people from a data perspective, about
47:04
Speaker 2: a third of them were not involved in a local church.
47:09
Speaker 2: They just came. They just came because there was a 5K,
47:12
Speaker 2: a local 5K. And we had an opportunity to do
47:15
Speaker 2: a devotional. We had an opportunity for prayer. The shirts say,
47:18
Speaker 2: be faithful across the front. You know, there was a
47:21
Speaker 2: lot of exposure to Christ because of a pursuit of
47:25
Speaker 2: some sort of physical activity together. And so I'm curious
47:29
Speaker 2: your thoughts. Oh, sorry. I know you have, I know
47:32
Speaker 2: you probably have a lot to say. So I'll shut
47:35
Speaker 2: up and ask a question in a second. How's that sound?
47:37
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
47:37
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just going to say like what you're providing is,
47:41
Speaker 3: With that 5K, what we provide in our sports experiences
47:45
Speaker 3: or in our running thing that we have here, it's
47:48
Speaker 3: opportunities for people to connect on something that they are
47:51
Speaker 3: passionate about. You know, you could be a street preacher
47:56
Speaker 3: and street preachers have their place in all of this
48:00
Speaker 3: that is trying to reach people out there. I'm sure
48:02
Speaker 3: some of them have great success. That's not me. It
48:05
Speaker 3: could never be me to be a street preacher. But
48:08
Speaker 3: could I... engage with people who are also interested in running? Absolutely.
48:13
Speaker 3: Could I engage with players if I'm coaching a team? Absolutely.
48:17
Speaker 3: And when you develop a relationship over a common passion,
48:21
Speaker 3: that gives you an opportunity to have spiritual conversations or
48:25
Speaker 3: simply invite them to come to your church to another
48:27
Speaker 3: event that might be happening there that they might be
48:29
Speaker 3: interested in too. So I think that's what such a
48:31
Speaker 3: key thing is about sports or fitness as it relates
48:34
Speaker 3: to this. If you're a Christian, It gives you an
48:36
Speaker 3: opportunity to be passionate about something, to find other people
48:39
Speaker 3: who are also passionate about that thing, and then open
48:42
Speaker 3: up those conversations that you couldn't maybe have otherwise.
48:46
Speaker 2: And I would actually take this one step deeper, and
48:48
Speaker 2: that is if I'm pastoring a church, and I pastor
48:52
Speaker 2: in our church. I'm more of a children's ministry, and
48:55
Speaker 2: I work with men. But if I'm pastoring a church,
48:57
Speaker 2: one of the things that a pastor does, pastor means shepherd,
49:00
Speaker 2: is to help people through the things that are real
49:03
Speaker 2: to them. So marriage, parenting, right? And this wasn't the
49:07
Speaker 2: point of this conversation, but in your own personal journey,
49:11
Speaker 2: those things came together in your body when you looked
49:14
Speaker 2: at the scale and saw 230 pounds. And you were like, no,
49:18
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this. This has gone too far. right?
49:21
Speaker 2: I believe that those moments, that might not exist for
49:25
Speaker 2: little kids playing basketball, but those moments truly do exist
49:29
Speaker 2: for adults. And there is a very important space in
49:34
Speaker 2: our world today where people who want to follow Jesus,
49:39
Speaker 2: people who are connected in church, people who are doing
49:42
Speaker 2: their best to live out the gospel in their home
49:45
Speaker 2: and with their families, would really love for the church
49:48
Speaker 2: not to push the body off as something not worth
49:50
Speaker 2: preaching about, would really love to have the opportunity to
49:54
Speaker 2: connect in church, maybe have the donuts removed from the
49:57
Speaker 2: counter next to the coffee for all the diabetics, right?
50:01
Speaker 2: And I believe that shepherding requires a... a discipleship in
50:07
Speaker 2: all of these areas. Now, this is my personal conviction.
50:09
Speaker 2: I'm not projecting this on you. But what I'm trying
50:12
Speaker 2: to say is what you guys are doing at large
50:15
Speaker 2: with churches across the board and in entering the space
50:19
Speaker 2: of helping the adults get on board too. I mean,
50:22
Speaker 2: no wonder you're facing resistance. No wonder there's some significant
50:28
Speaker 2: obstacles to that, because I believe this is a big
50:30
Speaker 2: battleground in our world today. I believe that it would
50:33
Speaker 2: be easier for the church, not best, easier to say,
50:37
Speaker 2: I'm not going to touch that with a 10-foot pole,
50:39
Speaker 2: but that it's becoming time. It seems to me, and
50:42
Speaker 2: that's why this podcast exists, it's becoming time, that that's
50:45
Speaker 2: no longer an off-limits topic, that we can actually bring
50:49
Speaker 2: bodies and fitness journeys and even nutrition and exercise under
50:53
Speaker 2: the dominion of Christ. So I guess my question here
50:55
Speaker 2: really is, as you've experienced this at an organizational level,
51:00
Speaker 2: bringing upward run into the market. Why is it so
51:04
Speaker 2: hard then for churches to see the importance and the
51:09
Speaker 2: benefit of adult physical activity in their mission and vision?
51:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I knew the answer to that. So
51:17
Speaker 3: this is where I take a couple of the hats
51:20
Speaker 3: that I wear here at Upward and I go, I
51:24
Speaker 3: don't know the answer. I would be pretending if I
51:25
Speaker 3: knew the answer because I would have upward running shooting
51:29
Speaker 3: up the charts in the app store, if that was
51:31
Speaker 3: the case.
51:32
Speaker 2: No joke, right? Yeah.
51:33
Speaker 3: But like from a market research standpoint, how do we
51:37
Speaker 3: find out why churches don't think this and what things
51:41
Speaker 3: that would be available would be open to talking about
51:45
Speaker 3: as it relates to fitness? And then from a marketing standpoint,
51:47
Speaker 3: how do we articulate that in a way that piques
51:51
Speaker 3: the interest of people at churches and and take someone
51:55
Speaker 3: who's a staff member at a church and goes, I
51:57
Speaker 3: think this is a great idea. I think we need
51:59
Speaker 3: to be involved with this. And I think we need
52:00
Speaker 3: to pass this out to the rest of our congregants.
52:04
Speaker 3: That a marketing person would look at like, all right,
52:06
Speaker 3: once I have the information as to why and what
52:10
Speaker 3: we should do, how do we go do that? And
52:13
Speaker 3: we're still working through that now.
52:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You and me both, man. So I would
52:20
Speaker 2: just at this point call out to anybody who's listening
52:23
Speaker 2: on the podcast, if you are involved with your local
52:26
Speaker 2: church or maybe even on staff, I want you to
52:28
Speaker 2: know that these resources exist for you. And if you're not,
52:31
Speaker 2: this is definitely something that passing on to your pastors,
52:34
Speaker 2: passing on to your mentors and shepherds who are local
52:36
Speaker 2: to you, not in an indicting way, hey, you There
52:42
Speaker 2: are things that exist to help us connect with our
52:45
Speaker 2: community and to get healthier at the same time that
52:48
Speaker 2: would be good for our church. And I want to
52:50
Speaker 2: make sure everybody knows they can find the link in
52:53
Speaker 2: the show notes to Upward Run and the app that
52:55
Speaker 2: they can get involved with to start that. Are there
52:57
Speaker 2: any other resources that individuals should know about if they're
53:00
Speaker 2: listening in on this and they want to bring this
53:01
Speaker 2: sort of thing to their church community?
53:03
Speaker 3: I'll try to be brief here, but Upward.org. is where
53:07
Speaker 3: you'll go for traditional Upward Sports type things. So if
53:10
Speaker 3: you've got a kid that you want to find a
53:12
Speaker 3: place to play, you can go to Upward.org. Or if
53:15
Speaker 3: you are a church or a leader that would consider
53:17
Speaker 3: running an Upward Sports program, Upward.org is the spot for you.
53:21
Speaker 3: If you are a runner or walker that wants to
53:25
Speaker 3: do anything from a 5K to a marathon and wants
53:27
Speaker 3: to be engaged with other people just like you who
53:30
Speaker 3: are in the same journey, you can go to UpwardRunning.com
53:34
Speaker 3: and you can... find out how to get our app
53:38
Speaker 3: that we have for individuals there. And then I host
53:41
Speaker 3: a podcast that's forward-facing to everyone called Kinda Fast. So
53:45
Speaker 3: if you want to hear me and Claire talk about
53:47
Speaker 3: a lot of things, especially on the beginner side of running,
53:50
Speaker 3: we put that out there. That's a good resource as well.
53:53
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Travis, this has been
53:55
Speaker 2: an awesome conversation. I'm so grateful to have had it
53:58
Speaker 2: with you. I want to pray over you and your
54:00
Speaker 2: mission and your organization. But before I do that, If
54:04
Speaker 2: somebody didn't get to hear it from you today, what's
54:07
Speaker 2: the one thing you want them to take away with
54:09
Speaker 2: regard to either their personal fitness journey, their professional journey,
54:13
Speaker 2: or perhaps on the other front of community participation in sports?
54:18
Speaker 3: People should have something that they're doing that doesn't have
54:22
Speaker 3: anything to do with their occupation, their family life, or
54:28
Speaker 3: maybe their church if you're a Christian. Something that they're
54:30
Speaker 3: doing on their own that's goal-oriented. that has you trying
54:34
Speaker 3: to achieve something that you're not sure you can do
54:37
Speaker 3: that pushes you to your limits. For me, that's running.
54:40
Speaker 3: For you, that might be fitness, lifting, walking, hiking, name
54:45
Speaker 3: your thing. But I think you should have some type
54:48
Speaker 3: of passion on your own to go out there and
54:50
Speaker 3: try to achieve. And so I think everything we're talking
54:53
Speaker 3: about here would fall within what you could do there.
54:57
Speaker 3: And so just think about what that might be for
54:58
Speaker 3: you and go chase it.
55:00
Speaker 2: I love it, man. Thanks for that. Let me pray
55:02
Speaker 2: over you and your work at Upward and your family,
55:05
Speaker 2: and we'll call this conversation good. Father God, thank you
55:09
Speaker 2: so much for this day. Thank you for the opportunity
55:11
Speaker 2: to talk to Travis and for the conversation we had here.
55:15
Speaker 2: I pray, Lord, that it's glorifying to you and that
55:17
Speaker 2: those who hear it needed to hear it. Holy Spirit,
55:20
Speaker 2: I also pray that you ignite in our communities and
55:23
Speaker 2: in our churches and in our land a courageous desire
55:27
Speaker 2: to move forward with you in all aspects of our life.
55:30
Speaker 2: even and especially our personal fitness. And Lord, I pray
55:34
Speaker 2: that we who are parents, we who are mentors, that
55:38
Speaker 2: we can lead in that area so our kids follow
55:40
Speaker 2: suit and also so that you can be glorified in
55:44
Speaker 2: something as small as a 5K or as big as
55:46
Speaker 2: a Boston Marathon. Lord, I also pray for Travis's work
55:50
Speaker 2: at Upward. May you be glorified as they continue to
55:53
Speaker 2: spread seeds in the community and reach those who many
55:57
Speaker 2: would say are unreachable. I pray, Lord, that they do
55:59
Speaker 2: that with diligence and humility and that you would bless
56:02
Speaker 2: their efforts. We love you, Lord. We thank you. We
56:05
Speaker 2: praise you in Jesus' name. Amen. Guys, thank you so
56:08
Speaker 2: much for joining us on the Faithful Fitness Podcast. This
56:11
Speaker 2: has been Coach Alex Van Houten with Travis Vaughn from Upward.
56:14
Speaker 2: Until next time, train hard, but pray harder.
56:20
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56:40
Speaker 1: the links in the show notes. We all have a
56:43
Speaker 1: cross to carry, but it's lighter when we do it together.
56:47
Speaker 1: See you later, alligator. But until then, train hard and
56:53
Speaker 1: pray even harder.
56:58
Speaker 3: Thank you.