Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TENDER HEARTED SINGER SONGWRITER "MUTILATED" WALKING DOG, ATLANTA'S PIEDMONT PARK

Transcript

TENDER HEARTED SINGER SONGWRITER "MUTILATED" WALKING DOG, ATLANTA'S PIEDMONT PARK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news tonight, A beautiful
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and tenderhearted singer songwriter mutilated dead while walking her dog
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: in Atlanta's Piedmont Park. Could dog DNA crack the case?
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Why weren't any of the park surveillance cameras working that night?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Of all nights, tonight?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Who murdered singer songwriter Katie Janice?
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Good evening? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you for being.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: With us Atlanta.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Now we want to operate a seven five. Now, let's
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: address yourself, he said.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: He said.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Somebody heart all right? Yes, man almost spent out.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Why is this case unsolved? Katie brutally murdered, her body
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: mutilated and plain view in the park for Pete's sake,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a part that many of us have jogged around and around,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: gone to picnics, gone to concerts right there in Plaine View.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Why is this case not solved?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: You were hearing part of the nine one one call
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: That tells me a lot after I dissect it, but
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: listen to more.
• 1:43
  Speaker 5: You're the.
• 1:53
  Speaker 6: That's like children.
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, please, oh my god. You teams like like so.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I love to call radio.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, mmmmm, I'm about to call Grady, Okay. That is
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: an inner city hospital well known for its emergency and
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: trauma unit, known across the country. But nothing could save
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Katie Janis. Thank you for being with us. This case
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: has sparked so many theories as to what went wrong,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Why was so much DNA evidence? Has this case not
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: been solved, could dog DNA crack this case?
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And why on that.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Night were the surveillance cameras not working? Joining me an
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: all star panel. But first to Eric Perry, investigative reporter
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and anchor at Wagga Waga Fox five.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Eric who made the nine to one one call.
• 2:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you're listening to Ma Clark. That is her girl friend.
• 3:01
  Speaker 7: So they had earlier, just had dinner. She worked around
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: the corner, not even half a mile from the park,
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: and then when she didn't go home, they realized that
• 3:10
  Speaker 7: something was wrong. She didn't answer the call, and then
• 3:13
  Speaker 7: she was able to find her there right in the park.
• 3:15
  Speaker 7: And we're talking maybe a couple of feet one hundred
• 3:18
  Speaker 7: feet in the park. So if you're driving by there,
• 3:21
  Speaker 7: a very busy area, you would have been able to
• 3:23
  Speaker 7: see something if it was daylight outside.
• 3:26
  Speaker 8: But it was right there in that park there, But
• 3:28
  Speaker 8: it was her.
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: Girlfriend, longtime girlfriend that found the body mutilated.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: There, you know to Dale Carson joining me, high profile
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: lawyer out of the Jacksonville jurisdiction, but for my purposes.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Former FBI agent, former cop in Miami Dade, you never
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: got a moment's rest in Miami Dade, and author of
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: arrest proof yourself. You can find him atdel Carson Law
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: dot Comdale. Typically, police look immediately at who found the body,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: who's closest to the victim, and that both the answers
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to both of those questions would be the roommate, Emma Clark.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: But I'm not buying it, Dale Carson.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I want you to listen again to her voice, her
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: inflection in the nine to one one call.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Listen No One operator seven off five now address to
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: your emergency.
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: Part's to.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: He said, if you do, he said, somebody heart, Yes please,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: all right, yes, man, I'm gonna spend hop to you.
• 4:41
  Speaker 9: Oh where having a part?
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: You're the answerance?
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: Did you see that's my children?
• 5:01
  Speaker 10: Yes?
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: Please?
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: Oh my godness, seems.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: Like she said that like it's so I love to
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: called radio.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, of course I am not a you know, interpreter
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of inflection. But after putting you know, thousands of witnesses
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: on the stand.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I've learned a little bit that sounds real to Medal Carson, I.
• 5:26
  Speaker 11: Absolutely agree, aside from which an attack of this nature
• 5:31
  Speaker 11: with a knife would result in a great deal of
• 5:35
  Speaker 11: blood scattering, and so the result would be she would
• 5:39
  Speaker 11: be also covered in blood at the time she made
• 5:41
  Speaker 11: the report, because obviously this just happened, and certainly investigators
• 5:47
  Speaker 11: are sophisticated enough to take her DNA check her for
• 5:51
  Speaker 11: blood or cuts herself and those sorts of things. I mean,
• 5:55
  Speaker 11: what we're looking at here, in my view, is a
• 5:57
  Speaker 11: disorganized killer. Is probably an assault that came out of nowhere, essentially,
• 6:04
  Speaker 11: and from my experiences directly at Piedmont Park in Atlanta
• 6:08
  Speaker 11: back in the seventies, this is a known area for
• 6:12
  Speaker 11: people to meet up for illicit behavior. So it is
• 6:15
  Speaker 11: a more dangerous area than one might be.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, hold on, buddy, hold on.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you were doing there in the seventies,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: but where I lived the entire time I was a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: prosecutor is three blocks from there, and I guarantee you
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I was not in the park trying to hook up
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: for sex. Okay, So backtrack, I can believe that cir
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Go bite. No, there's no indication that Katie Jennessa was
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: there looking for sex. I don't know what you're thinking. Man,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you. I'm putting you in the corner.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I'm giving you a few miles to think about what
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you just said.
• 6:50
  Speaker 11: What there are odd people in that park?
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Eighties odd?
• 6:55
  Speaker 12: Are you saying that there are people?
• 6:58
  Speaker 11: I know there is back access to the park that
• 7:01
  Speaker 11: is unavailable unless you know it's there off Westminster, And
• 7:07
  Speaker 11: when you go into that area, you're you're not You're
• 7:10
  Speaker 11: hidden from the general public.
• 7:12
  Speaker 13: What I'm saying is.
• 7:13
  Speaker 8: That there are.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: From the Piedmont Driving Club, which abuts the park where
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: all the rich people go, that coming in secretly that way. Wait,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: you know what, it doesn't matter, I hope, and I'm
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: going to.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Choose to believe the best of you.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Del Carson, former fair with the FBI that you meant
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: she may have encountered an odd person, which obviously she did,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: because this woman is not odd.
• 7:44
  Speaker 11: She is nothing.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: She's creative, she's a singer songwriter, she's in a stable relationship,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: she's walking her dog.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: She's a dog person.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, I'm still going to give you a
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: time out. Let me go to doctor Kimdall Crowns while
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Deal Carson composes himself. Kendall Crowns is joining us, guys.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: He's the chief medical Examiner Terrant County. That's Fort Worth
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: lecturer of the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Literally
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: thousands somewhere in the range of ten thousand plus autopsies.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, doctor Kendall Crowns, about
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: something very very disturbing. In addition to Katie Jenness being
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: murdered in playing view at the entrance. The entrance that's
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: by a red light where people are walking by of
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Piedmont Park, that's like Atlanta's Central.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Park right there.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Look, I want to talk to you about how her
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: body was mutilated.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts?
• 8:46
  Speaker 9: So, mutilation is often with people who are very upset
• 8:51
  Speaker 9: with the individual, or it's showing as someone who has
• 8:55
  Speaker 9: a mental disease or something along those lines. That be
• 9:00
  Speaker 9: anytime you see mutilation, there's more to the story than
• 9:04
  Speaker 9: just a simple murder. Either the person knew them or
• 9:08
  Speaker 9: the individual had another deep lying problem. Another time we
• 9:12
  Speaker 9: see mutilation is when the individual doesn't die right away,
• 9:16
  Speaker 9: and the perpetrator starts just doing what we call overkill
• 9:20
  Speaker 9: and keeps stabbing and stabbing and stabbing until they die.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Regarding the mutilation on Katie Genness's body, listen, According.
• 9:29
  Speaker 12: To the autopsy report that the coroner published, she was
• 9:31
  Speaker 12: stabbed over fifty times, multiple times in her head and
• 9:36
  Speaker 12: her chest and her torso just over fifty times. There
• 9:40
  Speaker 12: have been some reports that there was a work carved
• 9:43
  Speaker 12: in her chest and it spelled out fat Fat.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: Jens also had the letters F A T carved into
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: her lower chest and into her abdomen. The letters F
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: and A A are essentially to the right of the
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: mid line. As you cross over the mid line you
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: get to the letter T, and these letters are several
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: inches in LinkedIn wid Doctor Kendall Crown's.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Of course, when you are trying to decipher some words
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: or numbers carved into a victim's body, it's much like
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the art, not science, art of forensic dentistry. Unless you've
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: got a very very unusual tooth configuration, it's not going
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to work because it's like biting into jello.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: How can you tell the pattern left in the skin.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: It's movable, much like this but apparently it was decipherable.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: How would that have been achieved?
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: How could you cut visible letters into the human body
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: like that and in that location on her body?
• 11:03
  Speaker 9: Well, it's cutting the letters, and it's a simple matter
• 11:06
  Speaker 9: of just pushing the knife into the skin and then
• 11:08
  Speaker 9: drawing it across and until you get the the insize
• 11:13
  Speaker 9: wound or the shape that you want, and then going
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: the other way. The letters cut into bodies don't really
• 11:19
  Speaker 9: necessarily look like cursive or well done. They're usually just
• 11:24
  Speaker 9: kind of very just lines, and you can do that
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: easily with a knife. Is just cutting lines in the
• 11:30
  Speaker 9: individual and making simple words.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: Doctor, She's got a lot of injuries over the totality
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: of her torso her face. These are all anterior injuries.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: They start actually at the forehead. There's even one I
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: think that goes to the very top of the head.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: They go all the way across the surface of both eyes.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: The lips are actually in size all the way down
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: to the chin, and there are multiple of these. Missus
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: Janis was actually sliced from that point at the zyphoid
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: all the way down to her pubis, and this injury
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: went so deep that loops of her intestines or bowels
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: were actually hanging out. The pathologists actually noted that there
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: was hemorrhage in the bowel. Her heart was beating.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns her heart was beating during this, which
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: means she was alive for some of the desecration to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: her body, the mutilation. For there to be hemorrhaging in
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the bowel means the blood was circulated.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It's a bruise. Hemorrhage is a bruise.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You don't bruise if your heart's not beating because the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: blood isn't circulating. There was hemorrhage in her bowel, which
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: means her heart was beating, which means she was alive.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: What is the zyphoid.
• 12:56
  Speaker 9: The zyphoid is an area of your sternum or your
• 13:00
  Speaker 9: chest plate where it's a little kind of bony projection
• 13:04
  Speaker 9: that's kind of right at the base of your sternum,
• 13:06
  Speaker 9: right at the top of the abdomen. So that description
• 13:10
  Speaker 9: of that wound is basically right at the base of
• 13:12
  Speaker 9: her chest all the way down her abdomen. She has
• 13:15
  Speaker 9: a large, open, sharp force injury that goes through the
• 13:19
  Speaker 9: abdominal wall and then causes the intestines to just come
• 13:23
  Speaker 9: out of her a Donald cavity, so she was essentially
• 13:26
  Speaker 9: eviscerated by that wound to a degree.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
• 13:42
  Speaker 14: Catherine Katie Janice took her dog Bowie for a walk
• 13:46
  Speaker 14: in Atlanta's Piedmont Park. Katie went to see her girlfriend, Emma,
• 13:49
  Speaker 14: who was working down the street as a bartender. After
• 13:52
  Speaker 14: leaving the bar, Katie continued her walk. After work, Emma
• 13:56
  Speaker 14: went home that Katie wasn't there.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: She should have been.
• 13:59
  Speaker 14: Back from the door walk by then, so Emma started
• 14:02
  Speaker 14: calling Katie's cell phone but did not get an answer,
• 14:04
  Speaker 14: and she said text messages they also went unanswered. That's
• 14:08
  Speaker 14: when the worry set in and Emma went out to
• 14:10
  Speaker 14: look for Katie.
• 14:12
  Speaker 15: Emma Warden as a bartender in a local bar right
• 14:14
  Speaker 15: there at the park. So Katie would walk Bowie to
• 14:18
  Speaker 15: the establishment and they would visit for a few minutes
• 14:20
  Speaker 15: while she was on break, and then while she'd finished
• 14:23
  Speaker 15: walking the dog another twenty or thirty minutes, Emma would
• 14:25
  Speaker 15: finish up her shift and they would meet back home
• 14:28
  Speaker 15: at the same time.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Joining us an All Star panel to Eric Perry, investigative
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: reporter and anchor at Fox five WAGA, that was their
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: usual routine. I see no reason to deviate from that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: routine on that particular night, which tells me there was
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: only a thirty minute window in which Katy Jenness was killed.
• 14:55
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that was their usual routine, and Katie Jenness was
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: known in that area. I spent days after that homicide
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: talking to people in the area, and they all knew her.
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: They all remember seeing her, They knew Bowie the dog.
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: In fact, at the memorial you saw just as much
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: dog toys for Bowie then you saw flowers for Katie Jenness.
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: But they were both known there in the area. The
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: girlfriend was known, So this was what they did every day.
• 15:21
  Speaker 7: This was what should have been just an ordinary nightly
• 15:24
  Speaker 7: walk with the dog. Many people walk their dogs because
• 15:28
  Speaker 7: there is a sense of security.
• 15:30
  Speaker 8: This is tenthoned Piedmont if you're not familiar.
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: For those watching not familiar with Atlanta, this is tenth
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: and Piedmont. This is the midtown area, the heartbeat of
• 15:39
  Speaker 7: the city.
• 15:40
  Speaker 8: You have huge festivals.
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: So if you don't feel safe anywhere in the city,
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: there is a I guess now a false sense of
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: security that you feel there at Piedmont Park. But every night,
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: this is what they did, and when she didn't hear
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: anything from them. That's when emma'sa She went to the
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: looking for Katie and used her cell phone and the
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: tracking devices in the GPS, and that's when they found
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: her just right there at ten. And there's a high
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: school there as well, was called Grady High School. They
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: changed the name to Midtown High So you have a
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: high school there, you have homes there. There is an
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: open field that's right there where, close to where her
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: body was found, so many people feel safe there, even
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: if it is later in the night.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a neighborhood.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Back to Dale Carson, former fed with the FBI, now
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: defense lawyer Dale. I have run that Piedmont Park outside
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: circumference a million times, at Grady High School a million times.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: My son has played soccer there a million times.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: This is a family oriented area, although it is in
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: inner city Atlanta. So this out of the blue in
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a thirty minute time below, that's a very unusual Del Carson.
• 17:03
  Speaker 10: It is, and it's close to an entrance, which makes
• 17:06
  Speaker 10: you know, an ambush assault more likely. If she had
• 17:09
  Speaker 10: a routine, then it's easy to follow someone who has
• 17:14
  Speaker 10: a routine over a period of time. So it's certainly
• 17:17
  Speaker 10: possible that someone set up on her, and clearly your
• 17:22
  Speaker 10: immy is correct. The assault of that nature shows an
• 17:27
  Speaker 10: anger and a frustration that is beyond the level of
• 17:30
  Speaker 10: just a homicide, and so we would be looking for
• 17:34
  Speaker 10: someone who frequented the area, knows this woman and is
• 17:39
  Speaker 10: simply lying in wait for her. I mean, to complete
• 17:43
  Speaker 10: the task of killing someone with a knife, particularly with
• 17:47
  Speaker 10: a violence that was demonstrated against the body, would take
• 17:51
  Speaker 10: a few moments, and certainly that's done in an area
• 17:56
  Speaker 10: that is likely to be exposed to a vehicle, traffic
• 18:00
  Speaker 10: or older people walking in the park. So someone engaging
• 18:04
  Speaker 10: in this activity in my view as a disorganized killer,
• 18:08
  Speaker 10: meaning you know they're mentally not perhaps stable, they are
• 18:12
  Speaker 10: clearly homicidal.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that that rises to the level
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: of mental instability if you're trying to get toward insanity,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: because up until right now they managed to outsmart apd
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: with me. Chris mcdonnah, director of the Cold Case Foundation,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: former homicide detective with over three hundred homicide investigations under
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: his belt. I found him on the interview room on
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: YouTube during the Coburger investigation.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Chris, thank you for being with us.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing what Dale Carson and doctor Kendall Crowns and
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Eric Perry is saying, I'm about to go to our shrink,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. But Chris mcdonna, of course, the prosecutor
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to show motive ever. But we're saying this
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: is a target attack on Katie Jenness.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Somebody had to know her, They had to know her routine.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: What about the fact that this is right there at
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the entrance there are people walking by, including homeless people,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: including all nature of people that are drawn to inner
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: city Atlanta for various reasons. What if it's someone that
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: just hates women in general. There was no sex attack.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: This person actually killed her dog, Bowie as well, and they.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Took the time. They weren't worried about getting caught.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: They took the time to mutilate her body with the
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: letters fat.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: What can we discern from.
• 19:37
  Speaker 13: That, Nancy, There's a couple of things that you know
• 19:40
  Speaker 13: are coming through in my mind. One, when she was
• 19:45
  Speaker 13: presented at the autopsy, her under were down at her
• 19:48
  Speaker 13: niche number one. The second, to your point about the park,
• 19:54
  Speaker 13: it shows a familiarity and a comfortable position that the
• 19:58
  Speaker 13: suspect felt that they were in to potentially, you know,
• 20:03
  Speaker 13: blitzcreed the victim here. The fact that the victim had
• 20:08
  Speaker 13: a dog also shows that the suspect was comfortable potentially
• 20:13
  Speaker 13: seeing her in the past.
• 20:14
  Speaker 8: But I agree with you.
• 20:17
  Speaker 13: That this was a rage that this poor victim experienced
• 20:23
  Speaker 13: with the strikes to the head, multiple strikes to the body,
• 20:27
  Speaker 13: and then she was left out, you know, as if
• 20:30
  Speaker 13: she was just an item, where after he had experimented
• 20:35
  Speaker 13: by cutting into her skin, potentially by creating those lettering.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Very very critical point.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Eric Perry, joining us w AGA investigative reporter and anchor
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Eric Chris mcdonna said something, well, everything he said was critical,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: but the fact about her underwear being pulled down, her
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: pants and underwear being pulled down, they were not off,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and my knowledge, she was not raped, but the fact
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that her underwear and pants were pulled down makes the
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: attack somewhat of a sexual nature. Whether the actual rape
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: could be affected or not.
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, many people are drawing their own conclusions.
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: Was this a hate crime?
• 21:19
  Speaker 8: Police?
• 21:19
  Speaker 7: Atlanta Police coming back saying they don't think it was.
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: And a lot of the details that we're hearing. Atlanta
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: Police shared a lot of this, and I think this
• 21:28
  Speaker 7: is what took frustration to outrage that something like this
• 21:32
  Speaker 7: could happen in that short window of time in such
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: a public place there and made it so uneasy and.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Oay, no, I don't see it to just go by
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: at this time with a day or night and go, oh,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: she maybe gay. Let me kill her and her dog?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: What are they dog hate too? My place was three
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: less than three blocks from that, so trying to connect
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: this to her sex preference, I don't think that's the answer.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the answer. But what is the answer.
• 22:07
  Speaker 14: Emma used to find my iPhone app on Katie's phone.
• 22:11
  Speaker 14: It showed Katie's phone was about one hundred yards inside
• 22:15
  Speaker 14: Piedmont Park, which was very close to Katie and Emma's home.
• 22:20
  Speaker 14: Emma thought maybe Katie had dropped the phone, so she
• 22:22
  Speaker 14: went into the park to find it. But what she
• 22:24
  Speaker 14: finds is a very gruesome scene. The first thing she
• 22:27
  Speaker 14: saw was Bowie. Bowie was dead. Not too far away,
• 22:31
  Speaker 14: Emma found Katie's body.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us for now medical examiner Terran
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: County fort Worth lecturer, Burnette's School of Medicine at TCU,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's I want to analyze because I think
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: this is the key to the case, the fact that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the killer mutilated her body with the word fat. That
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: is unlike practically any homicide. I had a lot of stabbings,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of dismemberings, but to actually write hate words
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: on the body, to carve them into the body, that's rare. Yes,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: it's happened before, but it's still rare. I mean, think
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: about it, doctor Crowns. She's out at night walking her
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: dog and the person yanks her pants down, doesn't rape her,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: but that is a way of humiliating a woman, to
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: leave her to be found that way, and then to
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: carve that fat into her abdomen. Help me think, doctor Crowns,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: how will this helped me catch the killer?
• 23:44
  Speaker 9: So again, I agree it's very odd that they mutilated
• 23:47
  Speaker 9: the body, that it's odd that they wrote words on her.
• 23:52
  Speaker 9: I too, have done a lot of homicides, with stabbings
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: and domestic homicides, I have not actually seen a homicide
• 24:01
  Speaker 9: in which letters were written on the body. I've seen
• 24:04
  Speaker 9: suicides which in an individual cut words into their body,
• 24:07
  Speaker 9: but not homicides. So again, this is an odd case.
• 24:12
  Speaker 9: Obviously they had.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I still feel a.
• 24:15
  Speaker 9: Lot of rage at this time at the situation, to
• 24:18
  Speaker 9: kill her, to kill her dog. There's a lot going
• 24:22
  Speaker 9: on in that scene. And then the removal of the pants.
• 24:26
  Speaker 9: It could be they purposely did that to humiliate her,
• 24:30
  Speaker 9: or alternatively, it could be they dragged her and her
• 24:33
  Speaker 9: pants pulled down as well. Hard to say.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to doctor Kendall Crown's is renowned
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: psychiatrist doctor angel Arnold. Joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: this jurisdiction where Katie Jenness was murdered. You can find
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: her at angela Arnold MD dot com Doctor Angie.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: This has a plethora of.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Clues, but to discern them is a whole another thing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 16: Well, I seem to think that we need to break
• 25:03
  Speaker 16: it down there into a couple of options. First of all,
• 25:06
  Speaker 16: like everyone has said to you, Nancy, and you know
• 25:08
  Speaker 16: this as well, the people that the people that live
• 25:11
  Speaker 16: around Piedmont Park feel very safe around Piedmont Park. Okay,
• 25:16
  Speaker 16: we know that she had been to visit her girlfriend
• 25:19
  Speaker 16: at her place of park, her significant other, and then
• 25:22
  Speaker 16: she was simply walking her dog. So to me, I
• 25:25
  Speaker 16: wonder was this a burned other woman that was angry
• 25:36
  Speaker 16: with her and wanted to decimate her body because of
• 25:39
  Speaker 16: some sort of some sort of conflict she had had
• 25:42
  Speaker 16: with her, or was it a random act of violence
• 25:46
  Speaker 16: and she was just in the wrong place at the
• 25:48
  Speaker 16: wrong time at the park. And that's why no one
• 25:51
  Speaker 16: has been able to find this person, because whoever did it,
• 25:54
  Speaker 16: just as easily as you can, you can disappear back
• 25:59
  Speaker 16: into the park. Although I certainly don't understand why there
• 26:02
  Speaker 16: wasn't a blood trail that someone could follow. But I
• 26:06
  Speaker 16: think that if we look at it as just to me,
• 26:10
  Speaker 16: it seemed simple to break it down into the two
• 26:13
  Speaker 16: or three different kinds of people that could have done
• 26:16
  Speaker 16: this to her. It could have been completely random. I
• 26:19
  Speaker 16: don't think whoever did it was completely mentally ill or
• 26:23
  Speaker 16: psychotic at the time. If they were able to carve
• 26:26
  Speaker 16: the word fat onto her, as has been said, to
• 26:32
  Speaker 16: just desecrate her even more. I mean, why does somebody
• 26:35
  Speaker 16: have to carve that onto a woman, right and then
• 26:37
  Speaker 16: pull her And then it's interesting because I wonder if
• 26:41
  Speaker 16: it was another woman who did this to her and
• 26:45
  Speaker 16: pulled her pants down to make it seem like it
• 26:49
  Speaker 16: was a man, that may have done this to her.
• 26:51
  Speaker 16: That's just what I've thought.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Now, that is a theory. That is a theory I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: hadn't thought on.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Pat Of doctor Kenmell Crown's chief medical examiner, Terren County
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Fort Worths, Doctor crowns, if I had heard the word
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: fat was carved into her, I would think that that
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: was an urban myth.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't believe it, But.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: It is in the autopsy report that that is what
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the physician, the medical examiner believed, And normally there's an
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: attendee that.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Would probably have been talking going, yeah, that's what it says.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: That adds a lot of credence to fat being carved
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: into her. Or you've got a doctor that could use
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a magnifying glass.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: To really look at the words the letters.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know how big the letters were, but there's
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: no doubt in the autopsy report that is what was
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: carved into her body.
• 27:53
  Speaker 9: Yes, from reviewing the autopsy report, and it does appear
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: that it is the letter's fat carved into her body. Again,
• 28:01
  Speaker 9: you know, they're easier letters to do. That's the people
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: that I've seen carved words under their body usually use
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: simple letters. You can't usually carve a G very easily
• 28:12
  Speaker 9: or a D, but F, A and T are easy
• 28:14
  Speaker 9: enough to carve. But it is very unusual. Again, like
• 28:18
  Speaker 9: I just said before that I have not seen that
• 28:20
  Speaker 9: in a homicide. I have seen it in suicides. So
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: I agree with the psychiatrist apologize. I can't remember her
• 28:28
  Speaker 9: name that it's it's very odd, and I think it
• 28:32
  Speaker 9: could be someone that knows her. It could be another woman.
• 28:34
  Speaker 9: It's just the whole thing is very strange.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: I want to operate a seven.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: Preaching to myself at first, All right, yes, man, all
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: the send house for you.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Where having a part? You're the entrance.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: That's like chilfriend, yes, please, oh my god, your ends,
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: like she said, sad like it's so.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I love to call radio.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, the mayor speaking out, did it do any good?
• 29:36
  Speaker 17: Listen, you've also seen a murder in our city, the
• 29:41
  Speaker 17: likes of which we have not seen and quite some
• 29:45
  Speaker 17: time there was a horrific murder of Catherine Jonas, the
• 29:53
  Speaker 17: victim who was found at Pete Mont Park. Unfortunately, we
• 29:59
  Speaker 17: still don't have all of the information that we need
• 30:03
  Speaker 17: in her murder to make an arrest.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the mayor finally spoke, but she didn't address this.
• 30:11
  Speaker 18: Listen, We'll be releasing still photos assists individuals that were
• 30:18
  Speaker 18: in and around Pemont Park, and what we're hoping is
• 30:21
  Speaker 18: that these individuals will come forward and to let us
• 30:24
  Speaker 18: know and hope that they saw something while in the park.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Six people on a list joining me, All Star Panel,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Eric Perry joining US anchor investigative reporter Waga.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: What about the six people on the list?
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: Many people wanted to know who these people were.
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: They released the images of some of the people there,
• 30:45
  Speaker 7: and then you asked the question didn't do any good.
• 30:47
  Speaker 8: I actually don't know if it did any good for
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: her benefit.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Well, you're right, Eric Parry.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And another thing that was not addressed is the surveillance
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: cameras in that part.
• 31:00
  Speaker 18: Listen, the evidence is going to dictate where our investigation goes.
• 31:04
  Speaker 18: The cameras are just a tool that usually just helps
• 31:08
  Speaker 18: us and aise us in investigations. But I have some
• 31:12
  Speaker 18: talented men and women or in two twenty six p p.
• 31:15
  Speaker 18: Stree Street that know how to solve crimes without anything
• 31:20
  Speaker 18: other than just the evidence at hand.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: What man is he trying to see?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: A right there? Hey, yeah, we can solve this evidence
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: with nothing. He just said that. He just said that,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And that is a very poor job of covering up the.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Fact that they knew, the city knew those cameras did
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: not work. The software was obsolete and had been obsolete.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: For a long time.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: But that was just aoka while they support and pay
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: for every boondoggle they felt like as fat cat politicians
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: instead of taking care of the people in that part.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: What about that?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And they're still in office. It's amazing, nothing happened to
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: these people. They all still have jobs, they'd gone on
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to do other things in their career.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Nothing happened.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, a security camera was pointed right
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: at the murder spot, but it wasn't working.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Darn what why didn't hands roll?
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And that was a public outcry we saw in
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: the days afterwards when they realized that the cameras weren't working.
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: But many people we see the cameras, so you would
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: assume that they were working, and you'll think that, oh,
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: it's right there, you see it, right there is exactly
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: where all this was. This is where the vigil was,
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: this is where the memorial took place. So when people
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: realized that this wasn't connected to what they call their
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: integral system to where they can save the video. They
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: can go back and review the video, and the video
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: will connect directly to Atlanta nine one one center.
• 32:59
  Speaker 8: That is where we saw the outcry.
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: It took an additional nine months for that system that
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: was promised when the murder happened to actually be in place,
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: and it was delayed and delayed and delayed to nine
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: months later to when it finally actually happened. So we
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: found that period after the murder where it still wasn't
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: connected to Atlanta police system.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Question, Eric pearriy, has it been fixed yet?
• 33:25
  Speaker 8: It has?
• 33:26
  Speaker 7: It has so now they promised that those cameras are integrated,
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: they have the ability to save it. But many people
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: say it's a little bit too late because the worst
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: has already been done.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Did you actually say they promised? Did you say that, Eric,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: because I think you did.
• 33:42
  Speaker 11: They did?
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and that and eight dollars at Starbucks will
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: buy you a cup of coffee. Okay, let's move forward
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: with this investigation and try not to pay attention to
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: what politicians are saying. So the girlfriend finds the body
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: while she is out looking for Katie and she finds
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it by using to find my iPhone app to Chris
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: mcdunne joining me, homicide detective now founder of the Cold
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Case Foundation. I found him on his interview The interview
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: room is channel on YouTube. Chris, I got to hear
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: your analysis. Now that you've heard everything we've discussed and.
• 34:21
  Speaker 13: Antel, there's a couple of things that I think are important. One,
• 34:26
  Speaker 13: we're coming up on three years here in July, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 13: so I think the authorities need to be aware that
• 34:33
  Speaker 13: those cameras had better be working because there's a high
• 34:36
  Speaker 13: probability the suspect may return to that particular area. The
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: second thing is the phone pings that Emma utilized that night.
• 34:48
  Speaker 13: That was a really smart move, to be honest with you,
• 34:51
  Speaker 13: And when I heard the nine one one call, my
• 34:53
  Speaker 13: first impression was she's in shock. One hundred percent, she's
• 34:58
  Speaker 13: losing her breath.
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: She's just just in.
• 35:01
  Speaker 13: Total shock with I'm curious as to where the dog
• 35:06
  Speaker 13: was found and then where her body was ultimately found,
• 35:12
  Speaker 13: because if they're separated like that, and then she was
• 35:16
  Speaker 13: being pursued and chased potentially, and that really does put
• 35:20
  Speaker 13: the suspect into another level. To your point earlier, Nancy
• 35:24
  Speaker 13: that this guy just hates women, and potentially she was
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: the target that evening. Maybe randomly, maybe selective. I mean,
• 35:34
  Speaker 13: there's evidence of both, but to keep an open mind
• 35:38
  Speaker 13: at this point, this guy knew what he was doing
• 35:40
  Speaker 13: when he attacked her that evening.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I agree that it's a man because this degree brutality
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: is rarely saying statistically in women. So now the police
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: are at this point, they're begging for tips, and I
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: can't take it in because there's.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: So much evidence. So there has to be DNA evidence.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: There has to be, but still nowhere ast a police
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: are begging for evidence.
• 36:09
  Speaker 19: Listen, we're also asking if you saw anyone with any
• 36:12
  Speaker 19: unexplained injuries, an intense attraction to this case in the media,
• 36:21
  Speaker 19: a change in appearance, changing hair color, changing any type
• 36:25
  Speaker 19: of facial hair, an absence of school work, come forward,
• 36:30
  Speaker 19: give us a call. There's nothing insignificant that we won't
• 36:33
  Speaker 19: take and there's nothing that we will not follow up on.
• 36:36
  Speaker 8: The incident in Pete Mountain Park.
• 36:41
  Speaker 20: It was my decision to call upon the FBI after
• 36:45
  Speaker 20: having conversations with Chief Hampton on what we had in
• 36:50
  Speaker 20: the park. This homicide, this murder was outside the norm
• 36:54
  Speaker 20: of what we would typically see. This was so unique
• 36:58
  Speaker 20: that I felt that we needed to collaborate with as
• 37:01
  Speaker 20: many resources as we possibly can, and therefore I ask
• 37:06
  Speaker 20: the chief to get in touch with the FBI immediately.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Thank heaven Dale Carson joining me, lawyer oid of Jacksonville.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Former FBI Dale Carson, you're also a beat cop. Thank goodness.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: The FBI is called in, but still no arrest.
• 37:22
  Speaker 10: Well, they'll use the behavioral science unit to verify and
• 37:27
  Speaker 10: validate a lot of what we've spoken about here on camera.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Are you serious behavioral science? They're gonna say the same
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: thing they always say, it's a lonely white guy that
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: hates women.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: They always say the same thing.
• 37:41
  Speaker 10: Well, it's a little more precise than that. If you
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: look at some of the reports, it'll discuss things like
• 37:48
  Speaker 10: who the individual might have been, the indicators, what brought
• 37:53
  Speaker 10: this about. And for example, we learned that rapists typically
• 37:58
  Speaker 10: follow certain profiles, and their behavior on the street away
• 38:02
  Speaker 10: from the victim can be fairly easily identified based on
• 38:06
  Speaker 10: their behavior, the possessions they have. They have a truck,
• 38:10
  Speaker 10: they drink Budweiser beer, they have a dog. All of
• 38:13
  Speaker 10: those kind of things will help isolate out people who
• 38:17
  Speaker 10: moved around the Piedmont area. But I want to draw
• 38:20
  Speaker 10: your attention back to the fat word that was cut
• 38:24
  Speaker 10: into the body.
• 38:25
  Speaker 13: To me, that says that that is the reason for
• 38:30
  Speaker 13: the attack.
• 38:31
  Speaker 10: That someone thinks that this poor woman, the deceased here
• 38:36
  Speaker 10: offended them or rejected them because they were fat, and
• 38:41
  Speaker 10: therefore wrote the word on her abdomen. And for what
• 38:46
  Speaker 10: I read in the autopsy report, her genitalia was both
• 38:53
  Speaker 10: her breasts and her vagina were eviscerated, and that's an
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: indication from my perspective that it was a mail attack.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Agree, guys, take a listen to the APD Deputy Chief
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Charles Hampton Junior.
• 39:08
  Speaker 18: This is a case that rely heavily on biological evidence,
• 39:14
  Speaker 18: heavily on technology evidence, and those things also take time.
• 39:20
  Speaker 18: Some things are out of our control and so we
• 39:23
  Speaker 18: have to wait until things come back. And again, that
• 39:26
  Speaker 18: could be a data coming back from carriers phone carriers.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Does that mean they're bringing in or did bring in
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Chris mc don a sting rate to get a data
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: dump of all the cell phones used in that area
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: in that one hour period, because that's what it sounds
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: like to me.
• 39:43
  Speaker 13: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy and That information then will be dumped
• 39:47
  Speaker 13: into a program called Gladiator, and they'll be able to,
• 39:51
  Speaker 13: you know, pull a digital footprint of who's around that area.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Guys, if you know or think you know anything about
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the murder of this singer songwriter, beloved Katie Jens, please
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: dial four zero four five seven seven tips four zero
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: four five seven seven eight four seven seven.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: We stopped to.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Remember Euclid, Ohio Police officer Jacob Durbin, just twenty three
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: years old. Jacob Durbin ambushed and shot responding to a
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: disturbance call. A US VET of the Army National Guard,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: he served in Kuwait, recently engaged. He survived by a
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: grieving fiance, live mother Don Marie, and father Vince American
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: hero Euclid PD Jacob Durbin. I want to thank all
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: of our truly amazing guests, the brain trust that joins
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: us here every night, but especially to you for being
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: with us tonight and every night. Nancy Gray signing off,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: good night friend,