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Politics...Which Side is Right?: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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You're listening to Beyond the Sermon podcast, a First
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Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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So Jeremy, I got 2 questions to start off our conversation with.
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OK. First one, what has been your
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worst Airbnb experience? I can't say that on the air.
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OK, let me think of the second horse.
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The robbery 1 was the worst because we were literally like
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an hour or two outside of the city.
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Yeah, and trying to find something close to the venue and
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all of that. And we finally found a house
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that looked nice in the pictures that they sent us that like,
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they wouldn't charge us more for whatever then we could stay at.
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And we ended up just like eating at a restaurant and scootering
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around Atlanta to buy time while we're trying to like work this
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all out. Like, OK, well, it's like 10:00
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at night at that point. Awesome.
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So Airbnb is like calling owners for us to try and get us a spot.
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And I was like, OK, it looks clean inside.
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It looks nice. And we we pull up and it's not
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the nicest neighborhood bars on the convenience stores, Random
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guy walking around with a bat that we named Batman.
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And we get to the house and there's, like, beer cans on the
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front stoop and broken glass and whatever inside.
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Looks great. Yeah.
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But which is all people really look at when they're looking the
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pictures. Yeah.
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And so we get in there and like it's one of those houses were
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like it was crumbling beforehand and then they slapped fresh
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paint and they slapped those like plastic wood looking
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flooring, but they didn't fix what was underneath.
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So there were parts where we'd step in, it would like bend
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underneath. Yeah, it wasn't I I've been at
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worse, but that was definitely the whole situation was just a
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mess and awesome. Second question for you, who'd
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you vote for in the last presidential election?
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I ask. You that am I allowed to stay on
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the air? I'll only answer.
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If you answer, I'll answer. I'm not putting this on there.
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It's not going to. It doesn't happen.
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No. It's not going to be good for
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the body. And that's what we're here for.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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No, I just wanted your reaction on that one.
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No, I thought about it. If if you came in here
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unprepared and wanted me to steer the ship, I was going to
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open with that. So I was going to do the same to
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you. Yeah, what do you really got for
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me, Scott all? Right, so, so here's the first
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question I came up with you had in the bulletin and will read
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Ephesians 4, I think verses 17 to 32, something like that, and
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then never. Mentioned.
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It again preached from James 3, right?
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James chapter 3. Is that what it was?
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Yeah. So what's going on there?
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Did it change after the bulletin got printed or?
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Yeah, yeah, a lot changed and shifted in the last like 72
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hours leading up to and I'd been like thinking about praying
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about this German for like a month.
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And so a lot of the pieces did not change necessarily.
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The scripture used and the main connecting point changed.
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So Ephesians, great. Even I think I texted Marie
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Wednesday night or Thursday morning like, yeah, this is
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good. You can print it.
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And then later Thursday morning, I met up with a friend and he
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was like, oh, why don't we read through dreams together?
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And I was like, you're an answer to prayer.
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And that's a testimony for another time.
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But so he read through all of James together.
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And I was like, oh, a lot of this, it's like saying what I
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feel like God wanted me to say just in Scripture.
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And so it's like, OK, let me like make notes of these verses
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for later and see how and if which ones make it into the
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sermon, not thinking that it would become more of a focal
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point in there. And so praying and working
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through the sermon, get to Friday night and I'm with my in
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laws and my brother in law's asked me about the sermon.
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I'm prepping and all that. And at one point he's like, Oh
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yeah, this reminds me of when the Israelites are in exile and
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Jeremiah 29 and that scripture. I was like, Oh yeah, huh.
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And I get home that night and I'm praying to God about certain
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aspects of the sermon and praying and praying and praying
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and just laying there in bed. And it's like, yeah, I don't
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know how or where this fits. And then I thought of the Airbnb
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was like, that's temporary. And I was like, oh, and then it
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just like clicked and went down. Like everything just started
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falling into place. And then due to other
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circumstances, I didn't have my normal 3-4 hours in the
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sanctuary Saturday night, going through and tightening up and
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all that kind of stuff. But like, yeah, still working,
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working out little things. An we get to Sunday morning and
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I was like, I could announce that there's a difference, but
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also like people also need to hear that Ephesians passage.
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And maybe I should have been like, you know, opening it up
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with, you know, that's not what we're going to be using, but
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it's still, you know, is important to consider as we're
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moving forward. So I feel like I should have
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maybe acknowledged it or something.
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But yeah, so that's why it didn't get mentioned literally
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at all afterwards, because I also scriptures I ended up using
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and other things we touched on say in other words, what the
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Ephesians passage says. So it's re reinstating it.
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But yeah. And then one of the things which
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I completely understand because so I was very much nervous.
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Nervous, I guess nervous is like, I just want to make sure
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I'm out of the way. Jeremy doesn't get inserted into
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this. It's God.
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And then as I was going through things, it was like, and not
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just that it's God and godly wisdom, but that like, it's
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exactly what God wanted to share with his people 'cause we could
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have gone in a whole bunch of other directions and examples
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and that kind of stuff. That's that's the tough part
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about a series like this where you're just hitting certain
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topics for one Sunday. There's we could preach how many
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sermons? On each of these topics could be
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a series, could be a four week series.
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Yeah. For sure, and so I'm like, OK,
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God, even if I don't understand it, where we get and and he in
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like the three first three weeks of thinking about it, I was
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like, OK, I have like politics. Where does the deny yourself
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pardon like if that's the series and then like God point out like
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the pride that everyone is guilty of, especially in regards
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to how we've been navigating politics.
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And so I already had that piece before all this.
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And anyway, so I get through the sermon and I'm very confident
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and comfortable that it's what God wanted for his people.
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And it was a blur. I, I blanked out in certain
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parts and not not in like a forgetful out of just felt like
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it. It wasn't me like the spirit was
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just running the show. But I was aware that part of my
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message got rearranged and flipped up compared to how I
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wrote it in my notes. And so it's.
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Always just concerning when you go back to your notes.
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So I didn't even go back. I knew as soon as I walked off
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the stage, but it wasn't a oh darn, I messed up, which would
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normally be my beat myself up. I think like I, I knew it's what
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God wanted. And if I had done it again, the
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part where I think I mentioned after I talked about Airbnb's
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and all the complaints and all that kind of stuff, I then
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mentioned like, OK, we're going to be back at the Airbnb's.
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Pay attention because some of this isn't true or something to
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that effect. And then I mentioned the Michael
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story, the host that I got to walk with for a short season
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walk alongside. And I was like, as soon as I
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read like the, you know, so you know, see where the differences
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lie or what might not be true in my house.
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Like that was supposed to be way earlier.
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Like that was supposed to be start like after I intro my
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experiences and then we get to passion and we get into the
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things we're complaining about. OK, which complaints happen
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slash or issues happened or didn't really happen.
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That can be up to interpretation.
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And then going into like the OK, what things are a ridiculous
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issue to have while you're at an Airbnb for three days and you
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want them to fix it and it would cost them thousands of dollars,
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but you don't want to spend more money.
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That wasn't as clearly articulated as I would have
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preferred. And then you get to the issues
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that are like, Oh yeah, these are serious.
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We're lacking in the bed and we're lacking in the breakfast
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section. I want them and I'm going to
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like push on them to supply those things.
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But even if they don't, I'm going to make sure that happens
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and everyone's taken care of. And then there's things that are
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just like, there's no point in even calling them.
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It's, it's so ridiculous, far gone or whatever.
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Some things are like not even worth bringing up or complaining
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about. And you know, that dynamic of
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the people in charge of providing, but also we could
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provide. And then how do we anyway, so
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that all got rearranged compared to how I planned it and had it,
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I believe in my notes and then versus the execution.
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But yeah, so I definitely get how people could have been lost
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within that following that train of thought and and also with the
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Ephesians not being used whatsoever.
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But that's that's the the journey that I was on.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I figured that was the case
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because it happens sometimes. Are you?
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You have one thing in your mind and that's what you go to print
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on Thursday morning in the bulletin and then God says no,
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actually, this. Yeah.
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And, and even within, like even within the sermon, there's
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little phrases or add-ons, tidbits, sure, that like
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normally I wouldn't feel comfortable branching from what
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I prepared to touch on, but really felt like God was leading
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me there. And even in the earlier stuff
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someone had mentioned to me, like, you know, I really enjoyed
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like the hesitations and the tension in between things.
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And I was like, I wish that was intentional.
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But like I felt like God wanted me to in that in in the moment
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wanted me to be open and vulnerable of what we're all
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kind of feeling slash nervous about what's about to happen.
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And I appreciated that there were some pauses within this,
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like you're saying, like some some breath, some letting a
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thought just kind of hang there because these are tough
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conversations. And that's why this was
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definitely more God than me because I would have just blazed
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through and there was time. There was in times in the prep
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that I felt like God led me to intentionally pause.
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And it's like even written in my notes because I'm so bad at
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doing that. And other times I was just so
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hesitant to say the next thing that God put on my heart.
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I think I already, I told you that on the phone before, but
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like as I was going through this process and I said all the
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things I had in filtering out what he didn't want for this
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Sunday, I was like, Oh yeah, OK, that can be talked on the
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podcast. This can be talked about on the
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podcast. And then there was one line the
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some of us may be upset about a Pride month in June, but we're
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celebrating it year round or something to that effect.
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And I prayed at least 20 minutes as soon as when God originally
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gave it to me, like 20 minutes. Like, can this please be on the
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podcast and not said from the pulpit and felt like he he
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wanted it said from the pulpit and I'd like in the moment had
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forgotten about it. So then as I get to that line,
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I'm like, I really have to say this, God, can I just continue
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without this one? Just felt like that.
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Nope. Go on, be faithful.
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Yeah. Like, OK, God, yeah.
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That gets to the core of so much of it, right, 'cause there's so
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much pride bound up in thinking we've got it figured out or we
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know best or that, you know, the party we support clearly is the
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more biblically faithful or Christian party.
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And we feel really good about ourselves in that way.
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And we tend to then insulate ourselves from other opinions to
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the point where we just reside within an echo chamber where
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that's all we're hearing. And it only increases those
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levels of pride within our lives.
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And that's why I opened the altar afterwards, because I know
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of all the pride I have that I need to go and put before the
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Lord. And so it was so good.
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It was so good in the sense of like, I'm, I'm receiving the
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sermon and that it just felt so nice that it, it wasn't me.
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And like, maybe to a degree that I haven't like felt before.
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Like there's always aspects and parts and pieces and whatever
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and feel like I got the message that God was leading me to, but
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like so much not myself that I don't know.
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I just felt like afterwards I was like, and then when God said
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I'm like, not in a pretentious, like I am God, but like I
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wouldn't have said that. I wouldn't have said a lot of
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things, but. And yeah, so you mentioned how
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you you had asked him in the moment, can I take that out?
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I have to say, but there was one point where you said audibly,
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no, I'm going to save that for the podcast in the middle of
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your sermon. That's that's discernment, like
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discernment happening right there.
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What can you KSA in on what you want to talk about there?
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Yeah, I at the time I was like, I I know this.
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I can't connect it all and make it coherent and it was like
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processing at the same time of I'll reread the the Isaiah 26
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eight yes, Lord, walking in the way of your laws, we wait for
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you. Your name and renown are the
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desire of our hearts and it's like the conflict of seeking
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that and doing that amongst others who are not seeking to
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have that be the desires of their heart.
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Like how do we navigate making personal and political decisions
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with walking in His ways and the desire of our hearts being His
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name and renowned at the core of it, while we're also having
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these like this dialogue with people inside the church or
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outside of the church that that is not their same posture.
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Yeah. And I was like, that's a whole
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nother can of worms. God, that's a, that's a podcast
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thing that I, I can't slip in at this moment and keep going where
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we were going. So what do you think are some
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practical things that people can do?
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To monastic life. Yeah, because I'm sure there was
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never any conflict. Between the different monastic
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orders. Or I was gonna say, between
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monks. Yeah, yeah.
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That's why you just moved to the monster.
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The the ones that have less and less time together, those are,
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yeah, those are the ones we're gonna have.
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To take a vow of silence and nobody ever talks to anybody.
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Yeah, I think that's the that's the really hard part when you
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get into the nitty gritty, especially within the Church of
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staying humble, pushing, like encouraging and oh, what's the
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other one? It's like encouraging, but it
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hurts a little more Exhortation, exhorting, exhorting our
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brothers and sisters in Christ while.
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Which for if people don't know what exhort, exhorting or
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exhortation means, it's been described before as when it's
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like somebody comes up, gives you a hug and you're like, wow,
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that was really nice. And then you walk away and
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you're like, they just hit me. Like it's like this, this tender
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yet firm and somewhat painful correction.
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Yeah, trying to balance the meeting people where they are
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being on the same team that says we have the same goals.
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And yet, from our limited perspective, it seems like maybe
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we haven't seen the fruit in other people's actions that they
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are also seeking to have that be the desire of their heart.
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That team and that goal being the church team.
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Church. Team Church.
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Lifting up Jesus. Yes, and so it's really hard,
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big C church and local church to How do we not avoid the
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conversation completely? How do we healthily assume we
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are all on the same page while not ignoring when people aren't?
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Yeah, I think that's that's the tightrope that that we have to
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balance because it should be out of love, Humble, but not
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ignorant to the fact that I think you're a little off the
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path and I want to gently guide you back onto the path.
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Yeah. And it's not necessarily that
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the path is. Again, believe and agree with
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everything that I say. Sure, but when people are
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hateful and harmful to other people or creating an other or
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whatever it may be. Putting an agenda, maybe ahead
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of Jesus, yeah. Then it's not Jesus and we need
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to bring you back in. And it might not even be like
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that. I disagree with you on the
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topic. Like I can agree with you on an
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issue and disagree with how you talk about it, how you treat
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others that are differently on that topic and all those other
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things. Or.
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What we think the solution is? Or what we think the solution
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is. And that's one of the things
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when I talked with our youth about politics a few months ago
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of there's a difference between agreeing on an issue and
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agreeing on a solution. Because a lot of times the world
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says, well, Jesus says feed the hungry.
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So here's blown out of proportion example, Why wouldn't
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we give $5 trillion to buy Cheetos for every single person?
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And every single person can live off of Cheetos forever and they
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won't starve, right? Well, I agree, we're called to
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help the people with their needs.
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Ridiculous. An amount of money that might
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not be the healthiest thing for them, though it is feeding them.
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So it's not great for us, maybe not the best for them.
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And one of the things that didn't make it in the sermon
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that I thought was gonna be a piece and then anyway is if you
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had it your way and your you got to pick basically you were in
20:08
charge of every single seat in the political party.
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Cuz let's be honest, that's what we desire.
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Would it be executed well, right.
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On a federal, state or local level and at the price point
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that you would want with your taxes?
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Yeah, the answer is no. So even in our dream world of.
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Lining up the players, it's never going to pan out how we
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desire. And that's where I was
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originally going to touch on like different where you where
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you see the abuses of power finances and it's like we don't
20:45
have to get in a specific like when I had the Airbnb
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revelation, it was like we don't need to get into specific
20:52
issues. You can see issues and how we
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navigate them and view them and all that kind of stuff without
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one of the ones I was going to bring up because it's the most
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by part of something I could come up with is if we got
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everyone in power and blah, blah, blah, all that, all your
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dreams come true. We're still going to spend, even
21:10
if it's a dollar too much money on the Turkey pardoning ceremony
21:16
at Thanksgiving. And that's every single
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presidents and George HW Bush put it into play, which Abraham
21:23
Lincoln and I think maybe Eisenhower did it, but it wasn't
21:26
a regular thing until George HW Bush.
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Why do we need to be spending money on White House interns to
21:32
set up tables and chairs and paying politicians a day's work
21:35
to go and do that with all the other things going on to put a
21:39
Turkey on stage. And and then personally, This is
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why it's not at the pulpit. Personally is like, is this not
21:46
a reflection of how government and media can be like, oh, look
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at this really nice. Good thing that we did ignore
21:53
the 43,000,000 that are dying today because at least one got
21:58
saved. Like what kind of shenanigans is
22:03
this? And so there was a in my notes.
22:06
It was like too much research on Turkey pardon because of the
22:10
important. Thing it would follow.
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Up. But, yeah, but it's one of those
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things. It's like, so ridiculous, but
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we're so used to it and like, we ignore that, like, our money's
22:18
going towards that and is even guaranteed to survive the next
22:23
Thanksgiving. I couldn't find any proof of
22:26
that. All we did was buy him some time
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and it's a Turkey. It's a Turkey.
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Gobble, gobble. What a way to end the podcast.
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It's not needed. But the one thing that did get
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thrown out is, I mean, this is more political empty.
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A lot to go. But we're already here and this
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is the only episode I'm ever going to want to talk about
22:47
politics. So my cousin used to work for
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congresswoman. OK.
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And like very personally, not like, yeah, multiple levels
22:57
underneath, but would like travel with the congresswoman.
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And she was a very beloved in the community.
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The community was one of those that like flipped between the
23:05
two parties over and over and over again.
23:08
So it's very mixed politically, but she's held her office for a
23:12
very long time because both sides in her community love and
23:16
respect her. And, and I believe this woman
23:19
has good intentions with, with her job, even if I, again, I
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don't agree with everything, but she seems like a good person
23:25
with good intentions. And I get to hear all these
23:28
behind the scenes stories where it's like, I want to go help our
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factory workers like do this and set up this new plant, but I
23:38
need to go talk on this news channel so I'm in DC instead of
23:41
in the community. And then I have to get my hair
23:44
and my makeup done and this and Psalm picks up my clothes.
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It's like I don't usually do my hair.
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I don't usually do my makeup. But it's part of this game and
23:52
system that we've created that if you want to try and make
23:56
those good changes, you have to do all these other things that
23:59
take a good chunk of your time. And so it's like, you can't
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think of anyone that's won a certain level of political power
24:09
in our country without at least having to raise millions of
24:13
dollars. Yeah, it's, and that's part of
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the brokenness of our system, right, Is there's so much that
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you have to do to be a part of the system that just to be able
24:24
to get done maybe a few of the things that are really on your
24:29
heart to see change. Yeah.
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And a great example, Love is blind.
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Do you watch Love is Blind? I've never watched Love is.
24:36
You know what love is. I know what love is, Pink Blind
24:38
is. For those that don't know,
24:40
perfect closer Love is Blind is a show where they get like 30-30
24:47
singles of each gender from a city.
24:49
They live the like girls live in one section, boys live in
24:52
another section and they go into these, they call them pods where
24:56
they go on one-on-one dates, but they can't see each other.
24:59
They can only hear each other, right?
25:00
And they essentially have 10 days of dating as many of these
25:03
people in this single thing. And you can have multiple dates
25:07
over those 10 days. And at the end of the 10 days,
25:10
you can propose to the other person.
25:12
And then they'll fly you out for a honeymoon in whatever resort.
25:16
And then you live together for 30 days to see what quote UN
25:19
quote real life looks like. And then you get to the aisle
25:22
and you find out if they both say yes or no.
25:24
And of love is truly blind, right?
25:28
All of that said, as people talk about those that are on the
25:31
show, and I can't believe people are like that or this or this
25:35
person's really good or that, and you start to see a little
25:38
crazy come out, right? You got to have drama.
25:39
Otherwise it's not worth the time.
25:41
It's like, OK, but we also need to take a step back and realize
25:46
the people on the show are already a small demographic of
25:50
people that would sign up for a show like this.
25:55
But it's so easy to be like, oh, we just plucked 30 singles of
25:58
your common singles in the city to do this.
26:01
We're like, maybe there's a reason they're single and
26:04
desperate enough to go on a show like this when there's so many
26:08
other ways to do it. And I, as we discussed last week
26:11
or two weeks ago or whatever, it ain't easy out there for the
26:14
young singles. So like, I get the desperation
26:18
of finding a new way to do it, but you have to recognize that
26:23
there's already a niche demographic that would even
26:25
enter into the system in the process, and then we're viewing
26:29
those in that. Yeah.
26:32
Connection for us. Oh, if it wasn't obvious,
26:35
politicians as we said, like those that are willing to and
26:39
again fight the good fight. But then it also means play the
26:42
game up to a certain degree that that's already a niche or group.
26:48
And it's not maybe necessarily the Mother Teresa's of the
26:51
Mother Teresa ain't doing PR right?
26:55
And she's serving, she's taking care of people, she's loving the
26:57
Lord to the best of her ability. So like those types of people
27:01
simply just don't get up there. Yeah, like it would be even
27:06
harder for God to get me into politics than it was for him to
27:09
get me in the pulpit. Who challenge accepted local
27:12
office? No part of me, No part of me.
27:18
Oh, I would. I would.
27:19
I don't think I. Wouldn't play the game enough
27:21
for people to even know who I was when they got to the ballot
27:23
box. Yeah, and then and then even
27:26
just to have other like you're like, OK, OK, maybe you're not
27:29
good at representing yourself, but you have enough supporters
27:31
and people that would like go and do the grassroots movement
27:35
type thing for you. It's like, why would I waste so
27:37
many people's time? They can go use their gifts and
27:40
their talents that God's given them to do better work that it's
27:44
not all revolved around Wall, Yeah.
27:49
Moral of the story, deny yourselves, stay out of politics
27:55
and follow Jesus. And when he says stay out of
27:59
politics, he means just don't be a politician, I'm pretty sure.
28:02
Or you're just saying ignore the complete political.
28:05
I'm not trying to. Oh, that also got removed.
28:07
At some point. I was going to be like, even as
28:09
a kid I knew how much people didn't like politicians because
28:13
one of the first jokes I learned was politics.
28:16
Polly meaning many and ticks meaning blood sucking insects
28:21
or. Whatever.
28:22
Yeah, there's. Your ending let me.
28:24
Rephrase that, what was the first thing I said I.
28:27
Don't know you're staying and that was your closer.
28:29
You should know your closer. I I got nothing, never mind
28:34
politics. There you go.
28:37
Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
28:40
the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
28:43
on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
28:46
we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
28:49
can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
28:54
Thanks for being part of this conversation.
28:58
What something in the solitary practice of let God bring up the
29:04
topic kind of in a sense like then to figure out what's really
29:08
on your heart, even if you aren't, like, hyper aware of it
29:12
on your heart. And so I'm just sitting there
29:15
and looking at these geese sitting on the ice while the
29:18
fountains going on and the lights and everything at night.
29:21
And it's just like, OK, God, what's on my heart?
29:26
And I was just getting very humbled that God would entrust
29:32
me to raise a third child. What?
29:40
Yeah. Another one, huh?
29:42
Yeah. Or maybe Rebecca's pregnant.
29:45
Yeah. Yeah.
29:47
Do you already know? No.
29:48
Wow. Congratulations.
29:50
Your boys can keep a secret for more than 12 hours.
29:54
There you go. Another one of brewing.
29:57
Congratulations. Thank you very much.
30:00
Might not put it on the public one this week.
30:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How far along?
30:05
This will be 10 weeks. OK.
30:06
Yeah. So still.
30:07
Yeah, early we got, but we got scans and it's safe.
30:12
Like everything's good. And this was like around when
30:15
James passed. Yeah.
30:17
So that was a little harder, like, good.
30:21
Yeah, but harder, like seeing the X-rays because I was like,
30:23
oh, I know what that looks like outside of the womb.
30:25
Yeah. And missing my little Charmander
30:27
of a dude. Yeah.
30:29
But yeah, she's doing good. We're excited.
30:33
I'm more excited. I was pushing for twins, even
30:36
though like, you know, I was happy with two.
30:38
I was like, well, if we're already going to do it, if our
30:40
whole life is going to be kids, might as well go all out.
30:45
Rebecca was not a fan of that. By Joy and Andrew did.
30:49
You. Yeah, I know.
30:50
I was like, Andrew, you're you're cheating at the game.
30:53
How's it that I've been? It took me this long to become a
30:56
father of two and then bam, you go from not a father to a father
30:59
of two. It's not fair anyway, So yeah,
31:05
we'll see. So September 30th.