Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'MOM, WHY DID YOU KILL MY LITTLE BROTHER AND SISTER?' Cult Mom Lori Vallow CONFRONTED BY SON

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'MOM, WHY DID YOU KILL MY LITTLE BROTHER AND SISTER?' Cult Mom Lori Vallow CONFRONTED BY SON · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greasee.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: A torpedo into the defense of Calet mom Lurie Valo.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Lauri Valo now on trial for multiple murders and conspiracy
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: to commit murder, specifically the murders of her two children,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: seven year old JJ and teen girl Tally. But there's more.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: There's husband Charles Valo. There is the wife, Timmy Dabell,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: who died in her sleep. So Caltmom Laurie Vallo could
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: then steal her husband and marry him at a.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Beachside Hawaii wedding.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: But the torpedo I'm talking about is none other than
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: the one she gave birth to. That's right, her own
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: son Colby delivering damning evidence against his own mother.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I means he grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at pocination and
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: serious exem one eleven. Not only did his testimony, his
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: tearful testimony against his own mother, you could tell each
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: word was being pulled out with appliers who wants to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: hurt their own mother.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Canny understand you didn't saying wow, that's her reaction when
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: her son Colby says, you murdered my brother and sister.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And she's like, well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a real backhand way of not giving
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: an apology when somebody says you did so and so
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and you go, well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: In case you're wondering where that call originated, that is
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: a jail house call from between Colt Mom Lourie Bellow's
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: son Colby Ryan, and Colt Mom Laurie Valo.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: All of those calls are recorded. You know, I've got
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: an all.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Star panel to make sense of what we're hearing right
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: now and what is literally pouring from the witness stand
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: against Colt Mom Laurie Valo in the state's case. But
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: first of Karen Start, we're now psychologist joining us that
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: from on Manhattan. You can find her at Karenstart dot com.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Karen to see Karen what is that. I'm sure you
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: have a clinical word for it when you say, Nancy,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: you crashed my car and I'm really angry about it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And I say, well, Karen Start, I'm sorry you feel
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: that way. It's taking no responsibility at all.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: It's a great dyflection, Nancy. It's a great way to
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: not say that you've done anything wrong. But it's like
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: a semi apology because I'm sorry it's the thing that
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: you're looking for. But I'm not sorry that I killed them.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry that that's how you feel.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like putting the blame on the other person.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry you feel that way.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: But her voice also, if you listen to the way
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: that she sounds, she's very flat. It's not like, how
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: can you accuse me of such a thing. She's just like, gee,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry that you feel that way.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: This is her son, you know what, Karen start. Let
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: me give you a good example. Yes day, on the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: way to church, we got it in our hands.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: We were going to the early service.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know what possessed us to think we could
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: actually get there on time anyway, So of course I
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: get in the car and I have one purple tennis
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: shoe and one white tennis shee. So I hold them
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: up and I go come back, come back, and my
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: husband said, don't yell. For the next twenty minutes, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: talked about that I didn't yell, that I was wrongly
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: accused of raising my voice, and just to make it works,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: this is all the way to church.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So where you're supposed to learn to be a better person.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I was incensed, and then I had to pull the
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: twins and basically force them to say I didn't yell
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: that it was all in David's imagination. Long story short,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I was more worried about that and the purple shoe
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and the white shoe than she is about two dead children.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: And that's exactly what we're talking about. That she has
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: an aspect that's flat, the way that she coming across
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: like a zombie, the very thing that she's accusing everybody
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: else of, like, oh gee, I'm sorry.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So sorry you feel that way, Okay, joining me. Also
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: in addition to Karen Stark psychologist is Robin Drake, behavior expert,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: former FBI Special Agent, chief of FBI counter Intelligence.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Behavioral Analysis Program.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: My Goodness, author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: agent's manual for behavior Prediction.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, you got to shorten that title number one, Robert.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Robert, I think you're projecting here because it makes me
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: so angry when I go you did so and so
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: and the.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Person says, well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: And you know Nancy is building apollo. Paren was saying
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: it looks like her entire lack of effect with anything
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: is she feels completely safe in her entire environment. You know,
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: she has surrounded herself by a lot of like thinkers,
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: and so when you are a fish in a pond,
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: you don't even know there's a universe outside that pond
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: that's questioning your every move, and so you feel very
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: safe in that pond. And it's probably also why she's
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: taken so many notes in the court room. So she's
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: a practiced liar that has been doing this their entire life.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: I think she feels extremely safe. Plus you throw that
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: lack of empathy in there, and that you're seeing a
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: recipe for exactly that same behavior.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I like everything you and Karen Stark just said. Let's
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: bring in Tara Malik. Tara Malick Boise, Idaho attorney, co
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: founder Smith and Malik, former state and federal prosecutor.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Tara, thank you for being with us. Tara.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Let's now translate what we're hearing into criminal behavior and
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: something that Robin Drake said about she's a fish and
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: a small pond, and everybody swimming around her is supporting
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: her and agreeing with her and propping her up to
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: be some and this is these are their words, not mine,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Goddess to lead one hundred and forty thousand selected going
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to heaven with Christ. But she never has. So many
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: criminals are like minded. She never thinks, Wow, this is murder.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I could get the death penalty for this. That never
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: dawns on her.
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: No, it definitely doesn't seem to. I mean, she she
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: seems really confident in these lives that she's telling. And
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: you know, that call and her aspect or her lack
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: of asfect and that call with her son is really telling.
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, she just is so I think safe is
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: a great word to use. She feels so safe and
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: you know, throws it back on her son. I'm sorry
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: that you feel like that, you know, I'm sorry you
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: feel that way as a you know, as a prosecutor.
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: If you're putting on evidence like that, it certainly doesn't
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: is not going to play well with that jury. They're
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: not going to look at that flat aspect and go
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: sounds like one who's innocent. To the contrary, they're going
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: to go that's a very strange and out of the
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: norm way to react when someone accuses you your own
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: son of murdering your other kids like.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: This son of hers, Colby. We always hear about JJ
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: and Tyley. We don't hear a lot about Colby, Like
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: he hasn't been through enough.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: He has lost his father. Remember his father was Joseph.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Ryan, who by the time Ryan's body was found, he's
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: so decomposed to really get a good cod cause of death.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But with Coultmom lurking around, I wouldn't put that past
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: her either. With you, Jackie, I mean no way. So
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: his father's dead, his mother, his bio mom, is in jail,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and now his two siblings are dead, murdered JJ entirely.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Now we're talking about her flat affect and a lot
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: of people.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not. Did anybody ever watch Sopranos?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: They know they're being tapped, but they keep talking, right, Okay,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: everybody in the jail knows the calls are being recorded,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: but they may think rightly that the prosecutor may not
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: do his or her homework and listen to those calls wrong.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Listen to this, I agree.
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: I trusted every chance I feel my own.
• 9:22
  Speaker 8: Human I push past all.
• 9:26
  Speaker 9: Everything to try to get to you.
• 9:30
  Speaker 10: To help my own mother. You lied to me, specifically
• 9:37
  Speaker 10: me more times than might.
• 9:39
  Speaker 11: Be to know.
• 9:47
  Speaker 10: Then it's gone and you knew. And my phone's being
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: texted by my little sister who's not even life might
• 9:59
  Speaker 10: brother who's sweet.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Ever.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: This is Colby Ryan Coltman, Laurie Valo's son, confronting her
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: in a jailhouse call that was recorded. I will never
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: forget the calls from taught mom Casey Anthony, and they
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: were video recorded between her and her parents, and boy,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: we learned a lot about her demeanor, the way that
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: she would curse at them and yell at them every
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: time they tried to ask about where's Kelly. But we're
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: seeing the same thing right here. The more that Colby
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Ryan tries to confront cult Maum Laurie Valo about JJ
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and Tyley, the more she becomes calm and flat and
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: putting it back on him. Emily Ashcraft is with us
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: reporter KSL dot com in Utah. You can find her
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: on Twitter at Emily Janine three. Emily really interesting that
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: he Coby Ryan. He throws in his mom's face and
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: she deserves it too. That even after he keeps saying
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Tyley's gone, that means she's dead, Even after Tylie has
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: been murdered and dismembered, rendered like an animal in a slaughterhouse.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: He's still getting texts from Tilly's phone that had to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: be from calt mom Laurie Valo, Emily Ashcraft.
• 11:24
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 11:25
  Speaker 13: Well, in some testimony at the trial was that they
• 11:28
  Speaker 13: knew that that those texts and some venmos were sent
• 11:32
  Speaker 13: from a hotel that out of state, that Lori Velue
• 11:36
  Speaker 13: Develle where she was, and so it is pretty clear
• 11:40
  Speaker 13: that she was the one that's been sending venmos or texts,
• 11:45
  Speaker 13: and yeah, he was. He seemed pretty angry that she
• 11:49
  Speaker 13: intentionally hid that from him.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: So she knew clearly that her daughter was dead because
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: she was using her daughter's cell phone to pretend to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: be Tyley and right her brother, Tylie's brother, Colby Ryan.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to more, and you tell.
• 12:06
  Speaker 9: Me this is because will my whole fans, including fathers,
• 12:12
  Speaker 9: to who's dead after everything you try to tell me,
• 12:17
  Speaker 9: tell me right now said Jesus Christ, the Savior of
• 12:23
  Speaker 9: the world is on your son.
• 12:25
  Speaker 10: You tell me that that it's all conditioned your heart,
• 12:29
  Speaker 10: that Jesus Christ is on your side.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Please, guys.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: There is a later moment her Colt mom, Laurie Valo,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: actually laughs in her son's face as they're talking on
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: the phone.
• 12:47
  Speaker 14: Listen, you know what now, and we all stand everything.
• 12:55
  Speaker 14: She will people who his name pure blacking me. This
• 13:06
  Speaker 14: is funny, This is funny. This is funny. You're laughing like,
• 13:13
  Speaker 14: this is funny. I'm looking at that, look at me.
• 13:19
  Speaker 12: It's just.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: Always you don't understand ahead, Yeah I don't.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: I don't have anything else to say.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So when she doesn't like the questions, she starts laughing
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: at her own son, who's struggling with the murder of
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: his little brother and sister, and then makes to hang up.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But there's more.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Watch herself that was there doing everything with.
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: One who did it all? You did it all.
• 14:02
  Speaker 10: Throw it in the garage.
• 14:05
  Speaker 15: Happened, pretty happened in your new husband's back telling me
• 14:15
  Speaker 15: that matters what happened.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Why does she keep saying you don't know what happened.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: You don't know what happened. And then Colby Ryan really
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: boils it down and says, their dad, mom, and they're
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: buried in your new husband's backyard, So what else is
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: there to say? And I think right there, Robin Drake
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and Karen Stark, we're really getting at the heart of
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: what I now believed to be called my Lori Valos
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: hatred for children. Did you hear her say, I was
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: the one that did it all these years. I was
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the one that took care of Tiley in the hospital
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: for hundreds of days. I was the one stuck taking
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: care of JJ who has learning disabilities.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: That was me all these years.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: She is unburdening her self care and start she kill
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: them or arrange them to be killed so she wouldn't
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: have that burden anymore.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: And tremendous rage and anger over that, Nancy, over being
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: a mother, of doing the things that a mother does,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: that a parent does. And she It's so interesting because
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: most of the time she's kind of removed, like disassociated, like, oh,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: you're talking about me killing my children. I'm you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: I'm laughing. I'm not even present, And then all of
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: a sudden, all of this rage breaks through and you
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: get to hear her true feelings. Sick you don't know
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: what happens, And part of it is how much she
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: took care of them, but also how terrible they were,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: evil and the awful things that they did, all of
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: these hints about why they needed to be eliminated.
• 16:00
  Speaker 12: It's just outrageous.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: The jury is hearing these calls just like we are
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: right now. To Emily Ashcraft joining us from ks L
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: dot com, how is the jury reacting?
• 16:12
  Speaker 13: You know, I haven't seen a ton of reaction, but
• 16:16
  Speaker 13: you know they they do. They're more attentive than than
• 16:20
  Speaker 13: I've seen other juries. Like I think the story is
• 16:22
  Speaker 13: drawing them in.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Are they taking notes? And some of them are, Yeah,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: listen to this.
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: My own mom, my siblings, and my whole family, my
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: dad are everything you and your jail because of it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: I have really bothered himself and ask him to help.
• 16:42
  Speaker 16: Me survive this. Do you stands earthquake caused? Do you
• 16:49
  Speaker 16: know how many people are hurt and broken out? And
• 16:52
  Speaker 16: you're telling you that there's a reason.
• 16:55
  Speaker 11: Why are you following? Had done a bat the whole mom?
• 16:58
  Speaker 11: Why would you follow any is not good? How does
• 17:03
  Speaker 11: she fall somewhere? Did she not leads you to?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I notice no response?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Coltmant Lloyd Valo goes silent and confronted with tough questions
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: she can't answer. Not only did the jury hear these calls?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: H jailhouse calls between Coltman Laurie Valo and her son
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Colby Ryan but this torpedo continues to tear asunder any
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: case the defense may have had at least at this juncture,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Colby Ryan gets on the stand and breaks down in tears.
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: Listen, it's six. Do you recognize that person?
• 17:54
  Speaker 17: Yes?
• 17:55
  Speaker 8: Who is that? That's my sister Tyler Brian.
• 18:06
  Speaker 18: Okay, what was your specific relation with Tyler Ryan?
• 18:14
  Speaker 8: She was my half sister. Okay, who's sure?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Ryan? Eight?
• 18:17
  Speaker 8: Seasoned for do you know that first?
• 18:21
  Speaker 17: Yes?
• 18:22
  Speaker 8: Who is that? My little brother JJ Fallo? Okay, what's
• 18:28
  Speaker 8: your specific relation with JJ Ballo? He was my adopted brother.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 18:48
  Speaker 15: Two.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Doctor Jan Gorniac joining us today, renown medical examiner out
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: of Vegas, Board certified pathologist, Doctor Gorniac, thank you for
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: being with us. We know that and correct me if
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, Emily Ashcraft. But we know that JJ was
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: seemingly hermetrically sealed. He was in plastic bags. He still
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: had on his little pajamas he was wearing the night
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: that he was taken out of Coltman Laurie Valo's apartment
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: by her brother Alex Cox. He still even has on
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: his little socks he was going to wear to bed.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: He was wrapped in bags and sealed with duct tape. Tyley, however,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: was a completely different matter. She had been dismembered, rendered
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: down to practically nothing. All that was left remaining of
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: this beautiful teen girl, so full of life and happiness,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: was a melted bucket of human flesh and fat, singed
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: and charred. So what would that photo have looked like?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: When Colby Ryan was on the stand, and you can
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: hear him when they say who is that? He starts
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: crying and there's a long pause and he says, my sister,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Tyler Ryan, What would those photos have look like to
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: this brother now on the stand testifying for the state
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: against called mom Laurie.
• 20:18
  Speaker 12: Valo, I can only imagine, Hugh. It just breaks my
• 20:23
  Speaker 12: heart to hear him. But I know that we see
• 20:27
  Speaker 12: that almost on a daily basis, so not that we're
• 20:30
  Speaker 12: immune to it, but we're immune to it. So I
• 20:34
  Speaker 12: can only imagine saying that's my sister, only because you know,
• 20:40
  Speaker 12: but there's no resemblance even of a body to say
• 20:44
  Speaker 12: that's my sister, or to look at his little brother
• 20:49
  Speaker 12: partially decomposed, you know, whether there's the plastic bag still
• 20:53
  Speaker 12: wrapped around him. I just can't I mean, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 12: when you're you're you know, forensic pathologists or police officers,
• 21:03
  Speaker 12: ems personnel. I don't even want to tell you what
• 21:07
  Speaker 12: these eyes have seen, you know. And so to just
• 21:11
  Speaker 12: imagine that this young man had to see his brother
• 21:15
  Speaker 12: and sister in that shape is just heartbreaking.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Plastic bags and duct tape would not have stopped the
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: decomposition process, would they know?
• 21:27
  Speaker 12: It would not have. And also you know, it might
• 21:30
  Speaker 12: have slowed it down a little bit. But you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 12: the elements, whether you're buried, is it hot, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 12: so things can make it speed up or slow down.
• 21:40
  Speaker 12: But being wrapped in plastic and still have clothes on,
• 21:43
  Speaker 12: that's going to keep your body warm. So most likely
• 21:46
  Speaker 12: the body is going to decompose even faster.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Emily Ascraft, how much time passed between.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: The murders of Tyleing and JJ and the discovery of
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: their bodies on Chad Davill's property.
• 21:57
  Speaker 13: Now, they were each likely murdered in September, and they
• 22:02
  Speaker 13: weren't found until the spring. I can't remember which month
• 22:05
  Speaker 13: it was, but it was probably over six months.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I recall it being March or April, so we've got
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: seven to eight months, Doctor Jene gorniac of decomposure.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: What would Colby Ryan have seen in.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Those states exhibit photos of the dead bodies?
• 22:26
  Speaker 12: Who would have seen bodies that were discolored, you know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 12: green brown, Sometimes they look leathery. Their skin is so
• 22:38
  Speaker 12: thick and like looks like leather. Probably some skeletonization of
• 22:44
  Speaker 12: the body, so really no facial features that he can identify,
• 22:51
  Speaker 12: just you know, just the resemblance of a body, but
• 22:55
  Speaker 12: not really a body. You know, it's a body, but
• 22:57
  Speaker 12: you can't wrap your head around it being it's a body.
• 23:00
  Speaker 12: So he would have seen, you know, after all those months,
• 23:04
  Speaker 12: most likely more of a skeletonized body than actually a
• 23:08
  Speaker 12: full body.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: And that is JJ.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: To Tara Malick, Idaho lawyer and former state and federal prosecutor.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: At least there was a body left of JJ. Not
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: so fertilely explain.
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty horrific the facts here,
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: and I think, you know, it's obviously the fact that
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: these two kids passed away at all at the hands
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: of someone else is a terrible thing. But you know,
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: just the manner in which Tylee was treated by these folks,
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: and you know the fact that there's almost nothing left
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: of her is just astounding, and I think, you know, again,
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: this jury is going to have to see these photographs.
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: I think it's shocking.
• 23:59
  Speaker 12: You know.
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: The state that JJ was in is equally shocking. I mean,
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: this is a very small child, this is a little boy.
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: They're seeing, you know, pictures of him happy and smiling
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: in court and then in stark contrast, you know, he's
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: got tape over his face and he's wrapped in plastic.
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's just terrible.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And what to you, Emily Ashcraft had happened to Tiley?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: What were the state photos like of Tili's remains.
• 24:31
  Speaker 13: I know that those remains were just so burned they
• 24:34
  Speaker 13: there was no way to do an autopsy, and so
• 24:36
  Speaker 13: there's so few clues to the way that they that
• 24:39
  Speaker 13: she died too.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Docter J.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Gorniac Tyler's body was a bucket of flesh. How can
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you identify a body when there's just a bucket of
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: flesh left?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: How can you say that's tiling?
• 24:53
  Speaker 12: Well, you're going to have to do DNA first, Like
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: you said, first of all, you have to make sure
• 24:58
  Speaker 12: you know it's human, and then then go DNA or
• 25:03
  Speaker 12: if there was any teeth left at all, because some
• 25:08
  Speaker 12: bones couldn't survive or the burning in the decomposition process.
• 25:14
  Speaker 12: So depending on that, you would have to definitely go
• 25:16
  Speaker 12: to DNA. Right, Obviously you can't do fingerprints or anything
• 25:19
  Speaker 12: like that. And back to your last guests talking about
• 25:24
  Speaker 12: how do you determine cause of death? We don't. We
• 25:27
  Speaker 12: have to look at the circumstances. So in a case
• 25:30
  Speaker 12: like this, some people might call it undetermined, but the
• 25:33
  Speaker 12: manner is homicide just based on the circumstances, or they
• 25:37
  Speaker 12: might use the term homicidal violence of undetermined means. So
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: you know, something happened that we just can't tell because
• 25:44
  Speaker 12: there's not enough but the circumstances points to a homicide
• 25:50
  Speaker 12: even without a cause of death.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Right right, guys, we're hearing a lot about the children
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: JJ and Tylee. We've heard a fair bit about the
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: murder of the prophet Chad day Bill's wife, Tammy day Bill.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: We have not heard much about the.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Murder of Charles Valo, that Jjay's dad. Now we're hearing
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: more about the murder of Charles Valo in court. Take
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: a listen to this, and had you made any observations
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: about miss Valo's presence or behavior prior to the death notification.
• 26:32
  Speaker 19: Yes, at the time that I initially saw her, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 19: while I was in front of the residence, she was
• 26:40
  Speaker 19: standing with her daughter near what we later found out
• 26:44
  Speaker 19: was Charles's rental car, in proximity with a patrol officer.
• 26:52
  Speaker 8: She appeared.
• 26:55
  Speaker 19: Calm, very non emotion Uh, was kind of hanging out
• 27:03
  Speaker 19: and seemed to be just having kind of some general conversation,
• 27:08
  Speaker 19: not really upset, just kind of At one point.
• 27:12
  Speaker 8: She was laughing. Do you recall the day that Charles
• 27:16
  Speaker 8: Vallo asked Charles Valow died?
• 27:18
  Speaker 17: Yes?
• 27:19
  Speaker 18: Okay, did you happen to have a conversation with Lorie
• 27:25
  Speaker 18: Valo about how he died?
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: Yes? Where were you when you had that conversation? How
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: does that work? Okay? What time of day was it?
• 27:36
  Speaker 17: Around two or three pm? She called me?
• 27:38
  Speaker 8: Okay, what did she tell you about Charles Vallow's death?
• 27:44
  Speaker 17: She told me that he had died from a heart attack.
• 27:47
  Speaker 17: From a heart attack, heart attack.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: So even at the beginning, when Charles Valo was shot
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: dead by calt Mama Laurie Valo and her brother Alex Cox,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: she immediately starts spinning it out, telling son Colby, this
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: is the testimony on the stand the Valo died from
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: a heart attack.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: No, he was shot dead.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I want to go out to Robin Drake, behavior expert,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: former FBI special agent, Robin, thank you for being with us,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: first of all.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And the sound you heard, and that was the.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Prosecuting attorney questioning Detective Sandra Inclan. She the detective says
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that she sees call Mam Laurie Valo standing there on
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the scene of Charles Valo's shooting death, laughing the significance.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: We also hear her laughing at her son Colby on
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: those jail house calls exploit what do you make of it?
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, what I'm seeing is her sense of self is
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: so inflated it's crazy, and she seems to have this
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: non behavior that she deflects really rapidly with that laugh.
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: And then but her ability to recent her herself in
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: regroup to re engage her lives is profound. And so
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: that's exactly what I see her doing here, is that
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: she recenters, and she deflects and re victimizes herself and
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: she literally I think part of this lack of effect
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: from her is the fact that she treats this as
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: a business, because she literally anyone in her life that's
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: had a policy, and life insurance policy seems to disappear
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: until it comes to her. I mean, I think this
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: is her business, and this is exactly what she's been
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: doing her entire life.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Life insurance policies and government benefits because from really Ryan
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: was getting I guess you would call it social security
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: because her father, Joseph Ryan, had died.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Also Colby Ryan's dad.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And JJ was getting government benefits because he was disabled,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: he was learning disabled, and I believe that he's going
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to be on this spectrum that he has some degree
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of autism. So both of them are still getting government
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: support after their death.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: She kept getting the checks.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And what's really profound here is Colby. I want
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: to know who raised him because she obviously did not
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: have a huge impact on him, because he is dropping
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: truth bombs left and right, and she's having to regroup
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: and deflect and re engage. It's pretty remarkable.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Time stories with Nancy Grace, Karen starts psychologists joining us
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: out of Manhattan. Karen, in addition to her laughing inappropriately,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and I don't know if inappropriately is too mild of
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a word, because it's really twisting the knife once it's
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: stuck in the back because when Colby is bearing her
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: soul to his mother on the phone in this jeelhouse
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: phone call, she starts laughing at him, and her other
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: children are murdered and she's laughing. And then on the saye,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: when Charles Valo, one of her husbands, is shot dead
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: by her and her brother Alex Cox, she's laughing right
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: in front of the detectives. So there's the not just inappropriate,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: but cruel laughing. But then you also have Colby describing
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: more of her behavior, how there was a lying immediately
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: after the shooting. She already had a lie ready to
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: tell Colby that Valo died of a heart attack.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Nancy, she's a patholgical liar. She lies about everything, and
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: she's so good at it, which is what makes it
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: be pathological. I mean sometimes she doesn't even have to lie,
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: and she lies mothertheless, and she doesn't have any feeling.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: And I can't think of a better example of somebody
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: who doesn't care. She really doesn't care. She's capable of
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: totally removing herself from what anyone is saying, and people
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: aren't real to her, they're not She doesn't have connections
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: the way we would. She doesn't love the way you
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: love your family. She doesn't care, and she certainly feels
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: like she's above it all. She knows something that you
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: don't know. She knows that it's all going to be
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: okay for her.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: She has a higher purpose.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Whatever she's telling herself, she actually believes.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And when Colby took the stand the irony, she mouthed
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the words, oh my baby.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yep, when he took the stand. And you know what,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Robin Drie, You're right, your intuition is correct. Call him on.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Laurie Valo did not raise Colby. His father raised him.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Colby Ryan's father, Joseph Ryan, raised him. And you know
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: what else I find interesting, Tara Malick is with us
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: a high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction Idaho.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Is that Ryan?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Remember she told everybody that Joseph Ryan, her husband, died
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: of a heart attack. Now she's telling people that Charles
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Valla that's her go too, Oh he died of a
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: heart attack.
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's so strange. I mean, it's the same story.
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: It's obviously untrue. In fact, you know, during the time
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: she was telling the lies, people were getting different stories.
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: Law enforcement was getting different stories.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: She can't.
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: She either can't keep it straight or she doesn't care.
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Quite frankly, but all of those lies go directly to
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: her credibility. Why would you lie to law enforcement? Why
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: would you lie to people in the community about, you know,
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: the reason that your ex husband or husband died and
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: then passed away. It doesn't make any sense.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, that is what makes her a psychopath. You're
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: seeing a perfect example of somebody who doesn't care, who's
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: so devious and capable of lying, of pulling the wool
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: over everyone's eyes, of keeping checks that she shouldn't be keeping.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: This is classic psychopathics behavior.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Emily Ashcraft joining us from KSL dot com. Were you
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: in the courtroom when Colby took the stand?
• 34:28
  Speaker 13: I was in the overflow courtroom.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: So then yes, And what did you see, if any,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: regarding any reaction in the courtroom, Because we're told that
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: gasps broke out in the courtroom when Colby Ryan took
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: the stand and that called mom. Laurie Valo mouthed the words,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: oh my baby. I mean, did she not expect him
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: to take the stand.
• 34:50
  Speaker 13: I'm sure she was aware, but I think she has
• 34:54
  Speaker 13: been more emotional during that testimony than the others. What
• 34:58
  Speaker 13: do you mean most of the time she's she's been
• 35:02
  Speaker 13: pretty focused but not very emotional.
• 35:06
  Speaker 10: But we have the.
• 35:09
  Speaker 13: Artist that is in the courtroom during she sketched during
• 35:14
  Speaker 13: his testimony some emotional looks on Laurie's face that we
• 35:19
  Speaker 13: haven't been seeing other days.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting. Tara Mallik, high profile lawyer out
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: of Idaho. This witness, as emotional as he is, is
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: also technically a very important witness for the state because
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: without him, it would be more difficult to get these
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: phone calls in. You can't just say to the jury, Okay,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: now I'm going to play some phone calls to you.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: You've got to lay a foundation with one of the
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: people that are on the call or the FBI agent
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that was making the tap. Somebody has to legitimize the
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: phone call to get through evidentiary hurdles. You can't just
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: go in and start playing whatever you want to without
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: laying a foundation, illegal foundation for it. But also he
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Colby Ryan describes the text he was getting from Tyley
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: after she's dead, and we now know those texts were
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: coming from some hotel that called mom. Laurie Valo was
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: snugged up in So this is a very important significant
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: witness for the state in addition to the emotional as
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I said, bomb torpedo he landed in the defense.
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the state has the burden of
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: introducing and getting evidence into the record, and they have
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: to follow certain rules in order to do that. And
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: you can't just say, and you know, here you go,
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: judge and jury, here's a phone call that we're going
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: to play, or here's a text message that we got.
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: They're going to have to go step by step, brick
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: by brick and build this house. And that means having
• 36:51
  Speaker 6: him come in and describe how he called her, when
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: he called her, why he called her, you know, identifying
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: the voices authenticating that this the full telephone conversation, or
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: you know, the portions that they're playing of the telephone calls,
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: that those are true and accurate. So he is critically important.
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: And those text messages, you know, when he thought he
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: was texting with his sister, not only are they just
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: heartbreaking and traumatic, you know, for the reason of his
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: human emotions after he finds out that it was mom
• 37:22
  Speaker 6: and not his sister, and his sister was dead at
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: the time, but also to show, you know, the length
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: that Laurie went to to really cover her tracks in
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: a way, and and the deception. And so the only
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: way to really get that evidence in h to show
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: the concern in the community, but also to show this
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: deception is to go to him and have him describe
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: what he did and what efforts he made to track
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: him down.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, earlier you heard Robin Drake talk about motive, which
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: a state of course doesn't have to show. But take
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: a listen to our cuts three thirty and three thirty
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: one regarding the motive for murder?
• 38:03
  Speaker 18: Did you ever have a chance to speak with Lorie
• 38:06
  Speaker 18: Valo about Charles Valow's life insurance policy?
• 38:10
  Speaker 8: A few weeks after Charles was killed?
• 38:12
  Speaker 17: She just had mentioned that she wasn't receiving any of
• 38:15
  Speaker 17: the life insurance money from Charles.
• 38:17
  Speaker 18: Okay, Was it your understanding from your conversation that Lourie
• 38:22
  Speaker 18: Vallo believed she was the beneficiary of Charles's life insurance
• 38:27
  Speaker 18: policy until after he died. Yes, when Charles was alive,
• 38:32
  Speaker 18: did you ever have occasion to speak with Lorie Valo
• 38:35
  Speaker 18: about her and Charles's finances?
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: Yes? How often would that happen?
• 38:41
  Speaker 17: I would say maybe monthly, or twice a month, or
• 38:45
  Speaker 17: twice every other month.
• 38:47
  Speaker 18: Okay, what was the general nature of those conversations.
• 38:54
  Speaker 17: Mostly to tell me that they were quote unquote attam money.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I want if it ever done her, that maybe she
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: should get a job like everybody else. I guess not
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: when you think about it, that someone could actually murder
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: a little boy, seven year old JJ and his teen's
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: sister for under the misbelief that she was going to
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: get the life insurance policy from the dad and the
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Social Security benefits for these two little children. It was
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: all about the money, Karen Stark.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which shows you, Nancy, that she knew exactly what
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: she was doing. This is not a case of insanity.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: This is somebody who was very calculated, very clear about
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: I'm going to murder them. I'm going to make sure
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: that they're did so that I can collect this money.
• 39:43
  Speaker 12: Think about that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: It's about the money, not about any human caring or connection.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, you had said that you get a job
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: to her, this was her job. Her job was her
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: cult beliefs in the use paid the bills.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I wonder if this is thinking in to the jury's minds.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: We wait as this trial unfolds.
• 40:04
  Speaker 8: Goodbye, friend, m