Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Blue Valentine with Youngmi Mayer

Transcript

Blue Valentine with Youngmi Mayer · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Doe cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have in individualism the patriarchy? Zef and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Best start changing it with the beck Del cast. Jamie Caitlin,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I don't love you anymore. Okay, let's just bring literally,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: let's just break up right now, end of movie. Let's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: break up. Fine, do not bring me to a hotel room.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Let's not have a discussion. Actually, let's just break up. Yeah, well,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: because I'm so out of love with you. You ruined
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: my life. You ruined my life. I know you didn't
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: mean to. It's complicated, but we should just break up. Deal.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I was going to be a doctor, Caitlin. So we're
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: both Michelle Williams in this role playing scenario, We're to Michelle.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: That would be a fun blue Valentine. Where's one Michelle
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Williams sabotaging the other Michelle Williams. Or if it was
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Michelle Williams like Dawson's Creek Michelle Williams and Destiny's Child
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Michelle Williams and they're in a relationship and they're a
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: sabotaging each other, I would love that movie. Where's that?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Where's that movie that said? This? God, this movie. I
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: just let's just break up. Let's just break up, and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: let's not drag it out because our kid is so
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: cute and I want her to have you know, let's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: let's just get her out of here. Yeah. God. Anyway,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: it's the Blue Valentine episode. And this is the Bechtel Cast.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Drante, my name is Jamie Loftus,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: And this is our podcast where we take a look
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: at your favorite happy and sad movies and look at
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: them using an intersectional feminist lens. But but hold on, Caitlin,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, Michelle. What is the Bechtel Test? Well?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: It is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are several different
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: variations on the test, but the one that we are
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: currently using is as far follows. Two people of any
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: marginalized gender have to have names, and they have to
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: ideally for two or more lines of dialogue, and even
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: more ideally, it's a conversation that is narratively impactful. Well,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: let's see how this one goes. We have a popular
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: request today. I'm actually very I mean, sky's the limit
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: in terms of upsetting things we could discuss today. Um,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm very excited to get into it. We've been
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: getting this request for years. Blue Valentine movie written and
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: directed by Derek Cian France France. That was my best guess. Yeah,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: very European, last name, don't really know. But then I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: realized that I enjoy his work. He's Ryan Gosling's kind
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: of his his muse a little bit. Oh, I didn't
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: look up to see what else he has done. Well,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: we'll get there. But he also so did Place Beyond
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the Pines. I know this much is true. He did
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the story for Sound of Metal. He's done a lot of, um,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: broody guy stuff. He's a broody guy making stuff about
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: broody guys. And Blue Valentine was his first kind of
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: big movie. There's there's more to discuss there. We'll get there,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but let's get our guests in here. Certainly you have
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: an amazing guest today, we sure do. She is the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: co host of Feeling Asian podcast. It's Young Mayor. Hi,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: welcome are you hello? Welcome thanks for having me. I'm
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: so excited to talk about this movie. I have so
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: many thoughts. I literally can I'm like just foaming at
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: the mouth. Way is that sorry? I wasn't going to
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: point that out weird nineteen thirties phrase. Um No, I'm
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: so excited to get into this movie. And I was
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: just like thinking about all of the things that I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about it, and like I just keep
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: remembering more and more things. But I didn't. I should
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: have known that the creator his name was Eric. He
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: does kind of have Derreck energy. Oh, Derek. We should
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: have known it was Derek. It don't even need to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: change the B d E. It's big Derreck energy. Baby,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: it has big Derrek energy. Yeah. Sorry, my cat is yelling.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: So what is your your history, your relationship with this movie?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Young me? So, I have a very tumultuous relationship to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: this movie, much like how the movie itself is like
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: tumultuous um. And I was like really thinking about why
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: it affected me when I watched it. And this was
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, was a year that I got married. Yeah,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and then I remember watching it and oh wow, this
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: is like maybe it's like super personal. But I love
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: being two over sharing, so please go for it. I
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: remember watching it and feeling a lot of those feelings.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And that was like the year that I got married,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: like wanted the marriage to end, because I mean, I'm
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: divorced now, but I had a lot of like a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: lot of issues that I had to deal with mentally
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and like through therapy, and like I came out the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: other end. But this is when I was extremely young.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I think I was twenty two or twenty three at
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the time, and I had him processed all these things.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And I remember around the same time, my other favorite
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: movie was this is not to sound like a film nerd,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: but like, do you know that Igmar Bergman movie? Scenes
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: from a marriage? But there's like a bunch of them
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because I think it was like a TV show at
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: some point or something. It's a series of movies. And
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I loved those movies so much, which is another like
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm unhappy in marriage, I want to divorce sort of theme, right.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: But I started watching those movies as like a teenager,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and when I was a teenager, I was obsessed with
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: those movies. And I was like and I was like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: trying to analyze myself. I think it's because I had
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: this like very toxic childhood where it was like they
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: call it emotional incests, which is a very strong term,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: but basically it's like you do the role of like
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: what a mom would do in your family, right, right,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So like when I grew up, I had this sort
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: of relationship where I was the mom and my family
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and I had to do things with my dad because
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: my mom just wasn't there, you know. And so I
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: think that's why I was like obsessed with this feeling
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of being forced into this like unhappy union sort of thing,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: which also, like right off the bat, I feel like
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: that's like very deep. But that's my relationship to this movie.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for sharing all that too. I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: mean it's like this this movie brings ship out. Yeah,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: oh my god. Also, I was like the teenage girl
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: watching scenes from a marriage. I would have wanted to
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: be her friend in high school so bad. I would
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: have been like, right, well, she's not like other girls
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: like smoking cigarettes, yeah, smoking cigarettes and watching it and
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: like this is such a good movie. I love it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting at another table wearing a back brace like
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: young me so cool. No, we would have definitely been friends,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: are you kidding me, we would have been at the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: same table. I love your cat in this because I
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: have a very um like friendly cat and the cats.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I have two cats and they're always in my zoom meetings,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you also have a very present cat.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: He's he really likes to me. He's, you know, men
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: taking up too much space. But that's fleet. That's oh, Derek,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Oh Derek. I should have known. Yeah, please on the
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: floor defending Dean, being like was he not doing his best?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, we'll talk about it. Um, Jamie, what
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: is your relationship with this movie? I've also been with
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: this movie from the beginning since it came out. I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: saw it when I remember seeing it with a friend
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: when I was a teenager. This movie is so like
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I actually, I mean, I think that there is a
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: lot to love about this movie, as excruciating as it is.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like, I like, Derek, Derek kind of pulled
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: this one out. I really like. I don't love the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: obviously the characteristics of time to talk about, but it
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: did so complicated and it was I like, well, I mean,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like watching this movie right because it's really
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: hard to watch. But I thought It was really interesting
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: coming back to this movie over ten years later and
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: how much I got out of it that I didn't
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: get out the first time, just because I was much
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: younger where I was like seventeen eighteen in this movie
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: came out, and the first time I watched it, I
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: think I identified much more strongly with the six year old. Uh.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: That was like watching her parents marriage clearly not work.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: There's all these like dynamics of you know, fun parent,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: mean parent that are completely gendered, and you don't really
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: understand when you're that young, and so I really for
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the child the first way through. Obviously I did the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: second time, but now I'm like the age of the
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: characters and have been through relationships like this, and it's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: so hard and so complicated, and god, I just like, oh,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Michelle Williams, just this was whatever personally because of where
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I met in my life right now. This was a
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: very very difficult watch on the rewatch, but in a
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: way that I feel like means that the movie is good,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: but oof out it hurt my feelings, and uh, I
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: also just really like some of the things that put
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: this movie in two thousand and ten, including the score
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: by the band Grizzly Bear, a band that I had
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I haven't thought about since two thousand and ten. So
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: shout out to Derek, apparently because I wasn't expecting Derek
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to get such a strong emotional reaction out of me
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: this time, but dere did it. He did the holy
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: sh it. Uh, Caitly, what's your history with Blue Valentine?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I had no history. I had never seen this movie before,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and in fact, any time it's ever been referred to,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I always got this movie confused with blue is the
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Warmest color and the blue velvet, so like I would
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: hear Blue Valentine and I think people were talking about
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: blue Velvet usually, so that's my amazing relationship with it.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I would say that like hyper realistic, real world dramas
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: are my least favorite genre of film, so I tend
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to avoid them. Not because I think a lot of
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: them are really well made movies and extremely like emotionally
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: affecting and effectively told stories, but I don't like movies
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: that make me feel my bad feelings. I like movies
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: that make me forget about my bad feelings, which is
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: why I watched almost exclusively Romps. But yeah, so, so
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I had avoided this one, and um, I think it
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: will be an interesting discussion, especially on this podcast too,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: because like we normally don't cover hyper realistic, character driven dramas,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: there's an interesting discussion to be had. Yeah, there's a
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: time I was gonna say, there's the one other thing
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: that I remember about this movie that it's always so
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: bizarre where it's like this is not on the filmmaker
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: or the actors, but like the just like the weird
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: takeaways that people have from movies where I think, more
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: so than the story, what I most strongly remember as
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: a teenager saying this movie was the whole There was
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: a ton of drama around the kne lingas scene in
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: this movie. Like there I remember that drama. Yeah, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: it was like it brought out this is also so
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: two thousand ten, Like there was like a very early
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: proto meme like feminist Ryan Gosling, which is ridicul this
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: but what I mean, he is a feminist, but it's like, God,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: the fact that we're like, how remarkable. But there was
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: like all this drama around this movie almost getting an
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: NC seventeen rating because it depicted him going down on her,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and it was this whole discussion Ryan gossling Um, to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: his credit, was very outspoken about like that's fucking ridiculous,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: like why why and that I feel like that was
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: like a big takeaway from this movie, even though it's like, well,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: that's the last thing that this movie is about, Like
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and then I feel like I vaguely remember that now
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I totally forgot about that. I feel like now I
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: remember it was like very discussed. Yeah, I mean, and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I will say that's definitely, at least in the theater.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's the first time I saw uh Man
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: going down on a woman in a movie. I'm pretty sure.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's representation that we still rarely get media.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Was he doing this in the movie? That thing? Did
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: he do that? He kind of does it a little.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Everyone listening, they don't have to see what, they know
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing. Men are like, wow, he's
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: really good at it. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I just I mean, I remember said I because I
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: saw this movie with like a new friend and we
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: sort of like, let's at each other, like okay, you know,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: because it's like you just truly it makes me feel old.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, it still doesn't happen in movies. Often, but
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: at the time I was like, Wow, holy sh it,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: there's parents in this room. I don't remember that part
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: of the movie. Unfortunately, what I remember it very clearly.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't rewatch it for this podcast because I remember
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: the movie so well, but I guess you don't. Well,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: let me refresh your memory with a recap. Okay, So
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: we meet Dean and Cindy played by Ryan Gosling and
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Michelle Williams. They are a married couple in Pennsylvania. Ever
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: heard of it? Shout out to my home state. Wow.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: They have a young daughter named Frankie who is looking
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: for their dog, Megan, who seems to be missing. Wealth.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I mentioned a dog and your cat filipped out about it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: It was like, what about me um. The family seems
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to have a pretty typical working class family situation dynamic.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Both of them are attentive parents, but we sense some
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: tension between Dean and Cindy. Cindy takes Frankie to school,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: then she goes to work at a hospital where she
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: is a nurse. We see Dan at work. He paints houses.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: We also see him drinking and driving. This is the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: first hint will get of his alcohol abuse, and then
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: on the way home from work, Sydney spots their dog
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Megan dead by the side of the road, which she
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: tells Dean about, who be rates and blames her for
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the dog's death, and then this is the first hint
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: we see of his emotional abuse. They drop Frankie off
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: at her grandpa's I think Cindy's dad's place, yes, which
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: because we get more with him later a movie as
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: well in the flashbacks, this movie is told out of order.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? Nonlinear Storytelling's a filmmaker, Derek's a writer.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I feel I'm like I do like Derek's work, not
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: me handing it to Derek, but sometimes you gotta hand
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: it to Derek. I had two brilliant observations while I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was watching this, one that this is the like way
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: more bummer version of Five Days of Summer in terms
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: of it's like nonlinear story telling about a relationship that
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: goes sour. And this movie is if before sunrise, before sunset,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and before midnight, we're all combined together and just like
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: told nonlinearly anyway, we still got to do those movies
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: on the show. Yeah, we'll do before member on the Matrio. Um, okay,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: so they dropped Frankie off at Cindy's dad's place so
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that Dean and Cindy can bury the dog without Frankie seeing.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Then we get a flashback of Dean. I think it's
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: like five years ish earlier. He has a full head
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: of hair because the Ryan Gosling hairpiece in this movie
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: is so goofy. I feel like they like shaved his
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: hairline way back so that you so that it looks
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: like it's receding because you can kind of tell that
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: it's shaved and then like thinned out, yes at the top. Yeah,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: they really make this character age like a president. Um.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: And it's then it's still like Michelle right, she has
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: slightly shorter hair. But anyway, so we see Dean in
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: this flashback. He lives in Brooklyn. He gets a job
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: with a moving company. We see him move an old
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: man into a retirement home. We cut back to the present. So,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: with Frankie gone for the night, Dean plans a little
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: romantic getaway for him and Cindy. He wants them to
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: get drunk and make love. Cindy is very reluctant to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: do this, but Dean makes the reservation. Anyway. They stop
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: at a liquor store before heading out of town, where
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Cindy runs into Bobby Ontario, someone who seems to be
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: an old flame of hers. And Bobby Ontario is a
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: horrible person. But I will say that is a great
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: character name, Bobby, Like that is such a fake movie
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: name that I burst out laughing when she's like, Michelle
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Williams is in the liquor store, like, and most of
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: this movie is so grounded and normal, and then she's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: like Bobby Ontario. I was like, are we in a
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: will Farrell movie? All of a sudden, what is Bobby Ontario? Yeah?
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: What is Keanu Reeves's character's name in point Break? It's
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: something like, oh yeah, it's jo Utah or Johnny Utah,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Johnny Utah. Bobby. Yeah, he does sound like his young
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Ward Bobby on his young Canadian ward Bobby Ontario. Anyways,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: fuck Bobby Ontario. But he sucks so bad she runs
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: into him and then she tells Dean about it, and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: he does not react favorably. She gets very defensive. It's
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: clear that there's a lot of baggage here, which we
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: will learn about later. We then flash back to Cindy
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in college when she was dating Bobby we see having
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: sex he finishes inside of her without protection, which really
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: upsets her um. And then also in a couple of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: different flashbacks, we see Cindy visiting her parents and her grandparents,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: and both of those sets of relationships are cold, distant, unhealthy,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: or just like fully abusive. Cindy also visits her grandma
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: in a retirement home, the same one that Dean was
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: moving that man into earlier in the movie, and this
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: is where Cindy and Dean meet for the first time.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: They chat a little bit. He implies that he wants
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to take her out on a date, and he leaves
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: her his name and number. We then cut back to
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the present. Cindy and Dean arrive at their hotel. Things
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: are tents. He wants to be close and intimate with her.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: She's not having it. She isn't well. Also, there's so
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: much she doesn't even want to be there in the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: first place. Whatever, we'll talk about this in the in
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the main discussion, but it's so frustrating in a way
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that I'm like, I wonder if I picked up on
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: this as much when I was a teenager. But to
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: watch him like keep pushing her on stuff, she doesn't
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: want to do because he thinks he's being romantic, where
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it's like not just just listen to your partner, far
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: more effective way for your relationship to not fucking explode,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: which is also like how they meet, Like he's very pushy. Right,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: there's a whole scene word make a reference to the notebook.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: But he's a very there's a pushy, pushy person. There's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a great I mean great, and by great, I mean
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: an upsetting story about that scene. Okay, there's yeah, we'll
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: get there, we'll get there, Okay, So she doesn't want
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to be there. She's kind of rejecting him. They both
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: start drinking. Then we flash back to Cyndi Agan she
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: has broken up with Bobby, and then Dean is hoping
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and waiting for Cindy to call. He goes back to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the retirement home to find out where Cindy lives from
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: her grandmother, which I don't love that. Her grandma's so
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: weird about it too, Like he's like, hey, who is
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that girl? Can you tell me? And her grandma literally
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: is like, sure, put up a fight, Grandma. Grandma's be
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: boxing their grandchildren all the time. I can't believe it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Who can you trust right, But then he happens to
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: bump into Cindy on the bus, so they get to talking.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: We see some flashbacks where they're spending time together. He
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: sings her song with his uku Lele, and it seems
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: like they're falling in love. We then cut back to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the hotel room in the present. She tells him that
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: he's wasting his potential. He's like, well, all I wanna
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: do is just be your husband and Frankie's dad romanticizing
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: the issue again, I see Dean. He then tries to
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: initiate sex. He says he wants to have another baby
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: with her. She's still not into it. He gets upset.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: He says, I deserve affection, and then they start to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: have sex, but it goes horribly wrong, and then she
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: locks herself in the bedroom and then they both drunkenly
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: pass out. Another flashback of them when they're younger, first
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: having met, they're extremely horny for each other. They nearly
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: have sex on the sidewalk outside, they nearly have sex
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: in a taxi, and then they definitely have sex in
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a bedroom. Then she takes a pregnancy test and discovers
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that she is pregnant, and she sorry gregnant. She tells
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Dean and reveals that the baby is not his. It
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: must be Bobbies. It's just it's a reference to it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: An amazing YouTube video that we also then reference constantly
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: on the show is the video where they're mispronouncing the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: word pregnant like a million times. The Yahoo did I
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: get girl pregan announced also my favorite video of all times.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So it's so good. So she's she's, she's heavy with Greg,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: she's she's she's got away growing inside, start going to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: drop a Greg on the front stoop. So she so
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: it's it's Bobby's Greg unfortunately, and she goes through the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: motions of having an abortion, but at the last minute
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: decides not to go through with the abortion. Dean comforts
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: her and he's like, let's just do this, let's just
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: be a family, implying that you know, he'll raise this
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: baby as his own. We cut back to the present.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Cindy wakes up in the hotel and leaves for work
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: without Dean and without telling Dean that she's leaving. So
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: then when Dean wakes up he sees that Cindy is gone.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: He free out. He doesn't know what's going on. We
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: flashback again to Bobby, who has found out about Dean
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: being with Cindy, and he shows up at Dean's work
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and beats the ship out of him. So now we
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: understand why Dean was acting that way when Cindy told
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: him about seeing Bobby in the store. Fuck Bobby Ontario.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Fuck Bobby Ontario's horrible. All the men in this movie are,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, horrendous people. I'm just like, we have to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: get we have to airlift Cindy and Frankie out of
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: this plotline. We gotta get them out of there, certainly.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Back in the present, Cindy is at work. Her doctor
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: boss makes an indecent proposal at her. Then Dean shows
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: up at Cindy's work. He's drunk. He berates her for
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: leaving him at the hotel. She tells him she can't
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: take it anymore. She's like, I don't love you anymore.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: In fact, I hate you and I want a divorce.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: They go to pick up Frankie. They hash things out,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: or try to kind of. Dean wants to make this
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: relationship work, but Cindy recognizes that they can't stop treating
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: each other poorly, and she doesn't want that for herself
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: or for Frankie, and then we get one last flashback
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of them getting married, and then the movie ends back
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: in the present with Dean crying, saying goodbye to Frankie
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and then walking away. So why did I choose this movie?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: It is so so rough. It is rough, but it's
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: worth talking about. And let's do that right after this
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: break and we're back where to begin? Oh, I was
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: just gonna say what I heard you saying that you
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: don't watch movies like this. It is like the anti
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: escapism movie. Truly, Sometimes I'm like, why do you? Why
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: do people make movies like this? I thought this was
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: all about tap dancing and putting lipstick on because it's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the great depression, you know, Like why why do I
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: don't know why I watched? Well, I have to say
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: it really did move me. It didn't make me feel
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: good or better about anything, but it did move me.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And like, right, I mean, movies like this, even though
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: they're like they don't align with my taste, I understand
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: why people like them because they they're very like validating,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: especially if they like present authenticity and realism and like
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: actually meaningfully and authentically explore what it is to be human,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: what it is to be in a relationship, you know,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: whatever the movie's about. Like these movies that are done
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: well can be I don't know, just something that like
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: people can really relate to. I hate relating to things.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I just wanna watch people going on a bit quest
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: knowing that I'll never do that. It is very poetic.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I have to say. It is poetic and it's very
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: well done. Hats off to Derek. Yeah, so I will
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: give it that. Yeah. So the background for why this
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: movie exists is, uh, you're not gonna believe this. Dark's
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: parents are divorced, the worst thing that ever happened to Derek.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: It sounds like it sounds like um, which is also
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: very twenty ten for you know, a guy to be
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: like my divorced parents and that how would that be
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a personality? You know? Um? Anyways, I get it, you know, like,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you know, parents that get divorced, it's tough. But this
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: was like something that I guess Derek Seanne France was
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: trying to get this movie made for twelve years, had
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling attached to it for like
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: almost seven years. Like it just took a really really
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: long time to get made. Basically everyone in this movie
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: was also came from a messy divorced family, and so
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: there was like a collaborative aspect with the actors. There
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: are a bunch of writers. It sounds like a pretty
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: interesting like movie to make. And then also for Michelle Williams,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: they had to move the location that they were shooting
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: in because Heath Ledger had just died right before they
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: started shooting this movie, and she wanted to be close
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: to their daughter obviously in the year that followed that.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And so there's just like all this really heavy trauma
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: collaboration that was going on with this movie that I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: feel like, once, I don't know, once I knew that,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh, it kind of it's so sad.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And also I was just like, wow, it seems nice
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: that people had each other during this movie. I don't know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: it's it seems like everyone enjoyed making it as much
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: as you could enjoy making a movie this fucking depressing, right, Yeah,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, where did oh with Caitlin? The thing I
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: wanted to tell you, So there's a scene in this
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: movie where Michelle Williams needs to tell around gossling. I'm
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: going to keep using the actors and names. Michelle Williams
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: needs to tell Ryan Gosling that she's pregnant, but she's like,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you know, she hasn't gotten it out yet, and he's like,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you gotta tell me, you gotta tell me, and he
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: like climbs onto the side of the is it the
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bridge? Like some bridge? He's threatening to jump off
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: a bridge if she doesn't tell him, which he does
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: in the Notebook when he hangs from a ferris wheel
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: unless Rachel mcadam's little Great to go out with him.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: So you're like, why are Ryan Gosling characters always doing
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: this specific toxic thing threatening to take their own life
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: if they don't get an information nugget from a woman
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: right now? And the reason is because I think that
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: So that part was not written. I guess that Derek
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: was like, this is what needs to happen in the scene,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and they improvised it. So I think Ryan Gosling just
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: did it because he'd done it in a movie before,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Like that was Ryan Gosling's idea. I think he was
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, Bing Bung, I did this in the Notebook,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: let me just do it right now. So that wasn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: even written it's just like I think he just it
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: was like I did this in two thousand four, because
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the similarities are so striking that I was like, yeah,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: is this a coincidence or no? I yeah, I thought
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I assumed it was written and I was like, shame
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: on you, Derek. But then I I read and a
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: couple of interviews he did, did I guess that Ryan
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Gosling was just like, oh, yeah, you know how characters
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: do this, and You're like, I don't, but whatever, your
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: fathers do this, and no one else you know how,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you were like it was a collaborative writing effort. I
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel like there's a part of Ryan
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Gosling that likes to be like the like I'm gonna
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: kill myself you don't like like love me, or like
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get beat up by the football guy, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: like sort of emo. I don't know. I think that
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that's probably his heavy hand in it is my guess. Yeah.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like he was the one that chose
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to jump on the side of a bridge. It sounds
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: like in that scene he could have remained on the ground.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been a problem. That is such a
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: like Ryan Gosling character to think of, like this era
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of Ryan Gosling. I don't really know. I'm like, when
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: was the last movie he was in. I mean that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: brings up an interesting thought I guess I had about
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to wear this exactly, but like
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: more or less his masculinity or his version of masculinity
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: as it's presented in this movie, and then how that
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: kind of ties into the relationship in general, because like
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: during the climactic scene when they're breaking up in the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: hospital and he's saying, like you want to hit me,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you want to hit me, and she's like, no, I'm not,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and then he's she's saying, like be a man, and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: like there's all these I have to just like organize
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: my thoughts for a second here, because there's just so
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: much that happens. So A big thing that I talked
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: about on this podcast I fixate on how love and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: romantic relationships are represented in movies, and we've conclude, rooted
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: on many episodes that most movies present a very cartoonish
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and false depiction of romantic love, especially because most of
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the movies focus only on the time between like the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: meat cute, which is another thing in movies that is
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: usually pretty silly. But between the meat, the meat cute,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and the time where the couple officially gets together, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: then that's the end of the movie and we don't
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: see any of the relationship have a greg or something
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: like it becomes you only see the happy, right, So
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: this movie obviously shows the whole range of this relationship,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the meeting, the falling in love, the relationship getting rocky,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: them falling out of love. And I'm not saying that
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: every relationship goes through this exact progression statistically. Statistically a
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: lot of them do. So I think that's fascinating, and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I do think there should be more movies like that,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: because I feel like so many people have very realistic
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: expectations about romantic love because of what they see in movies.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So I think it's useful to have a movie like
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: this that like shows the after parts of like the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: couple getting together and you know, that honeymoon phase kind
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of thing. And it seems like in this movie in particular,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: like Dean's character especially has been really affected by that
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: idea of romance and also has applied no critical thinking
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to it to the point where he's like, if I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: do this I deserve this versus love and trust being
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: something that you earn and requires listening to people and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: not just doing things you've seen in movies because you
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: think that that will entitle you to someone's love and
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: time and commitment. And I and I the movie knows that,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I think, because the relationship fails due to him being
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: a horrible listener and a horrible communicator and doing things
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: that he thinks are romantic instead of listening to his partner.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I think the point that Caitlin made about showing the
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: end is probably why I like movies like this, because
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: they do feel so authentic and real, and it does
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: show this part where other movies just cut out because
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: it's not part of the fantasy. But I also feel
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: like this movie that's like a good job, like I
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: think showing because the Ryan Gosling character that he likes
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to play so much is like this toxic but very
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: romantic character of this like this man that's like I'm
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: going to jump off a bridge because I'm obsessed with you,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: like sort of, and that's extremely romantic to watch in
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a movie. But then we get to see the other
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: half of that, you know, it's like this person that's
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: like just not a good partner, and then what are
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you gonna do? It's like it's almost like looking at
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: your teenage infatuation in fifteen years and he's a house
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: painter and he smokes a bunch of weed and like
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: he used to be like the guy playing the guitar
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: at party, but now, like, what what's going to happen
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: if you end up with this guy? You know, it's
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like this like smashing that romantic idea of a toxic,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: abusive partner, right, and like, um, which you brought up
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the other most two thousand ten things about this movie,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: which is The Ukulele Elephants. I didn't want to say it.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I said guitar, but I like the ukulele. I love it.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I think it sounds really pretty. And if somebody played
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the ukulele to me, I'd probably be like, let's get married.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's the song he sings is but it's so
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: foreshadowing of what their relationship is going to be, because
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: he's like, you always hurt the ones you love, and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: it crumbles the relationship. He's like basically just like singing
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: the recap of what their relationship will be, so foreshadowing
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: much good job, Derek. Now there's this, there's some good
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: points and I'm there's that that. Yeah, the floor it
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: was a little heavy handed, Derek, but it's fine. Um.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: And then like the hotel room being um. The theme
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: is like the future and I'm like, yeah, right, we
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: see it, we see it, we see what we did there.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: It's so broody, but once you're in it, you're like, yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: exactly the future. Yeah, this relationship is so I mean,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I love how you like describe you like the romantic
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: guy that you don't really think about, like, well, what
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: is how is this going to bear out? Like? And
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: all the signs are there and that's kind of like
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: what I appreciate about this movie is like I feel
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: a worse written movie would be like he used to
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: be so great, but now he's awful. When it's like
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the things that make their relationship fail on his end
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: are present from the moment they meet. It's the same person, yeah,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: like and it's just framed in this like Halo at first,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and you don't. I do appreciate that this movie focuses
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: or on Cindy's background and the context for her than
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: it does on Dean, which I feel like it's kind
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: of rare in any movie. I feel like, usually you
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: get so much background about the man in a relationship
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and relatively little about the movie. That's definitely not the
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: case here. But what you do learn about Dean, I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: feel like it's you have all the context you need
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: for who and why he is in a way that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: it's like he's a horrible partner. He is, you know,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: clearly struggling with addiction and very in denial about it,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: to the point where he's romanticizing his own addiction. He's like,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I get to wake up and drink a beer at
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: eight am? Aren't you so proud of me? Which, if
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you've ever been in someone's life that's struggling with something
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: like that, that scene was like rough, yeah, yeah, do
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: you think that we Okay? So this is my question
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: because I remember watching the movie all those years ago
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: and sort of sympathizing with him. I mean because on paper,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: when when we talk about it's like, yeah, he's abusive,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: he has you know, alcoholism, and it's like he's not
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: a great partner. But I feel like I feel like
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of people will watch this movie and sort
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of like feel bad for him and be like well,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: what's so bad about this guy? He's so sweet and
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: yeah he has problems, but why is she so mean
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to him? Do you like, do you think it's like
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: so yeah? And I think that's one of the reasons
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: this movie is an effectively written and told story is
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: there are aspects of his character that are very empathetic.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: He's an extremely attentive and loving father to his daughter
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that isn't even biologically his. I feel like a lot
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: of I mean men in real life and male characters
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: in movies would be like, oh, this kid isn't mine, well,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: then screw you, I'm out of here. But he it's
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: like not even a thing. It's his idea for them
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: to like start a family together. There's this toxic idea
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm being cooked. I'm not going to
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: raise someone another man's kid, and he doesn't. That's like
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: not on his mind at all. So he's also really
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: supportive of her abortion. When she wants to get an abortion,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: he's there, and then when she changes her mind, he's there.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: And it's it's especially because you're given this context for
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: how men have treated Cindy previously that it's like, I
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: get why she falls for Dean, and also all of
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: the problems are there from the very beginning, and it
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: just what like ripped my heart up. Maybe want to
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: fucking fight Dean is. I mean, it's his idea. He
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: wants to stay, like you're saying, Caitlin, he wants to
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: be present in Frankie's life and he wants to be
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: her father. But he still does hold the fact that
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Frankie's not his child against Cindy, and like hints at
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: in all these scenes where like there's I think it's
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: like that climactic fight where he's like, the only reason
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: that you're yelling at me is because I'm around, and
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: like is still holding it against his holding his own
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: decision against Cindy, which is like just incredibly immature and unfair.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: And I kind of wonder you, I mean, I wish
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I remembered like how this movie was received, because it
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: feels like it really lends itself to like someone to
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: people being overly sympathetic to his character. Ryan. Yeah, yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's a conscious decision on
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Derek's part, maybe not conscious, maybe he doesn't even know
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: right that I think people are without knowing skew towards
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: feeling sorry for men, even if they're the problem. And
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I think that without even knowing when I saw you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I have like worked through a lot of internalized misogynies
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: since then, obviously, but when I saw it, I was like,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and why is she like such a bitch? Like that's
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: a nice guy, and yeah, he is raising her kid.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: And now I'm like, no, this is that, That's not
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: how it is at all. Like I had such a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: different perspective. But then I also, like, I also you know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: identified with her because I was just like, every man
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: in my life is a fucking failure and I hate
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: them all, you know, and like I know why she's
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: fucking angry, because like I know how that feels, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: like great, now you're gonna act like you're the victim
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: when you're the man. That's like let me down again.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Like so it was like it was weird. It was
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: like a weird emotional thing for me. Yeah. Well I
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: think that speaks to how so many movies, so much media,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: and then just like society in general asks us to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: be empathetic toward men and forgiving and forgiving. Yeah, and
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: society gives men way more permission to make mistakes and
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: treat people poorly. And I think a lot of people
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: don't even perceive men's mistakes and their bad behavior as
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: being wrong or bad. People just view it as, oh,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: that's just what men are, like, like it's the whole
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: boys will be boys thing, because yeah, historically, we've given
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: men so much permission to be shitty and women have
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: not been given that same permission. Those standards are very different.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I do think that I don't think that the movie
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: is necessarily asking us to take sides, but I do
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: think I think that it serves as kind of an
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: interesting mirror for where you're at when you Yeah, I agree,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: thinking back on it, I don't. I think that it
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: was made well to show like a very unbiased, sort
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: of realistic view, but it is a mirror on myself
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: and who I used to be baby totally, because I
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: was like, I did feel bad for him. I was like,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: why did I feel bad for that guy? I don't know,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: reme feeling bad for him too, and then being like
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the same thing of like we whatever, like it's it
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing that he wanted to raise Frankie,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: but you can't. You know, it's so frustrating to watch
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: him throw that in her face as if she asked
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: for it when she didn't. She like, there's like that
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: scene explicitly after she decides not to get the abortion,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: where this is his idea and she says, you don't
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: have to do this and he says, I want to.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Let's be a family, and it's like, well, that's it, Dean,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you made this decision, and it's just I don't know. Yeah,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: this movie is so tough because you're like, you, guys,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: can we wait, wait, can we talk about the abortion
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: scene really quick? Because I know, I know that's a
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: trope and I'm assuming you've covered it on this podcast before,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: But the the abortion clinic, we're going to go to
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the clinic and lay down in the bed and then
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: be like, I can't do it. It's a baby like that.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Come on, so I that's too much. Wish we the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: audience had a better understanding of why she changes her
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: mind and decides not to go through with the abortion,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: because it seems almost like in the scene as you're
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: watching it, she just like can't handle the physical pain
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and that's why she stops it. But it's probably more
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: than that. She just decides to keep the baby after all,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: but we don't really check back in with her about
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: why she changes her mind because we talked about this
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: on like the Juno episode and like other episodes where
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: like it is such a common troll. They give you
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: a reason in that movie, but the reason is sucks,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of anti abortion in general, right that
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: movie we wash our hands of it. Uh. And then
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: like the way that the abortion is represented. And I've
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: been fortunate enough to not have to go through with
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: an abortion myself, but I imagine it's not the most
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: pleasant thing, and I think the movie probably pretty realistically
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: depicts the experience of it. So on one hand, I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: appreciate the authenticity there, but I also worry that people
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: would see this movie and like them away. Yeah, that
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: they would it would scare them away from having an abortion,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: especially because she like seems to be in a lot
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: of pain she changes her mind made procedure. So I
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: have really mixed feelings about the abortions. So I've had
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: an abortion and I'm very you know, open about it,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm very anti how the media in America shows
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: abortions because I think it's so dramatic and so over
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the top and ridiculous because it's always like this thing
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: where it's like, oh my god like that. But I'm
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: gonna be very honestly, I had an abortion. I didn't.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't give a ship. I was like, look the dude,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: like I got an abortion, who gives a fuck? You know?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: And I was just like and it took four minutes
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and I felt fine. The next night I was I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: was like twenty years old. I was probably like in
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a nightclub or whatever. And I just feel like, yes,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: it's valid that some people do have that reaction to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: having an abortion and the feeling of like being put
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: in this hard place where they have to do something
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: they don't want to do whatever. But a lot of
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: people just don't. It's not moving and deeply don't believe
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: that it was a baby and it wasn't a baby,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and it was just like something that I had to do,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: like getting wax or something. And it doesn't do you
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. I hate that idea that in America,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: every single time you see an abortion in a movie,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: every single there's not even without one exception. It's like, oh,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: like it's like like it's such a big dramatic thing
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: because for some people it just isn't that, And like
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: we do need, like I think we need like more
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: representation of people that are just like, yeah, I went in,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: it took four minutes, and now I'm having a cocktail
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: with my friend, like, you know, totally, that's an amazing point. Yeah,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: there's nothing available there, especially when it's a movie made
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: by like a male tour like this too, where it's like, well,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: where do you get off Derek, you know, telling us
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: that this is the most traumatic thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: people process things differently, and and like, if you truly
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: believe in abortion being you know, it's like a right
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: that women should have with their bodies, Like you should
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: really start to process it in a way that it's
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: not killing a baby. Come on, like it's it's not
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: that at all. It's just a routine medical procedure. Yeah,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: And there's like no range of experience shown. Yeah, thank
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you for bringing that up to because I feel like
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: we we've talked about that on the show, but like
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: not enough. And and unfortunately it's like I think that
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: this also was the first this movie I guess was
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: more first for me than I'm realizing, because it was
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: the first time I saw a guy go down on
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: a girl in a movie. And it was also the
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: first time I think that I saw an abortion in
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a movie. And Caitlin, You're totally right. There's no real
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: reasoning given, even though for what I've like, I found
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: like conflicting opinions on this scene where some people don't
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: like it and I started for the reasons you're describing
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: young me, and then there's other people who are like.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: The thing that they like about it is the second
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: that Michelle Williams character is like, I don't want to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: do this, that the doctor is immediately like okay, I'm sorry,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: and then like immediately end the procedure. That was great, too,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: fun terrible. Fact, the doctor that plays the abortion doctor
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: in the movie is a real abortion doctor, or should
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I say was, because he has since been he's no
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: longer an abortion doctor due to malpractice. So that's what
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: you know, what a what a world. Let's take a
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come back for more discussion,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: and we're back. I want to jump back to the
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: relationship between Cindy and Dean because you know, we've been
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: talking about, especially as it relates to like the empathy
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: that some viewers have had toward Dean and how again,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: like because so many people are conditioned to see a
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: character like Cindy because she's the more I mean, let's
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: face it, she's the responsible parent here, like she's the
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: she's the disciplinarian. And we've talked a lot on the
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: show about how the disciplinarian parent, if there is kind
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: of like that type of dynamic where it's like the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: fun parent and the quote unquote mean parent and it's
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: almost always depicted is like the quote unquote mean one
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: is the mom. And it took me personally because I
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: my I get well, my family dynamic wasn't even like that,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: but it was just like I had a mean parent
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: and then a parent who was completely unattentive. But my
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: dad didn't yell at me, so I liked him better
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: at the time, but he just didn't yell at me
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: because he didn't engage with me at all, is what
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I now realize what's happened. But my mom was the disciplinarian,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: so I thought she was mean and so much media
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and I don't think this movie actually does that. I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: think it is pretty objective in the way that it
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: presents these two people, but it's like just our personal
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: baggage that we bring into the movie. But I think
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: this movie again presents the characters pretty objectively. I think
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: it contextualizes, especially Cindy and her life and her backstory meaningfully.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: And I think the movie does a pretty good job
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: at depicting spousal abuse or mistreatment. Um where again, in movies,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: spousal abuse is often very oversimplified and presented in a
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: pretty cartoonish way, where it's like the man comes home
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: drunk and hits his wife. There's rarely context, there's rarely
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: any additional information of out the relationship. We just see
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: this kind of like one dimensional like guy comes home
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and hits his wife a girlfriend, and some abusive relationships
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: are partially that, but there are often other dimensions to
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the relationship, where like, sometimes an abusive relationship is loving
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and supportive. Sometimes the couple does get along with each
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: other and laugh with each other and enjoy each other's company.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: And yes, so I think this movie does a good
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: job of presenting that kind of more nuanced and realistic
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: version of a relationship where both people are not treating
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: each other well. And like, you know, I don't I
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: don't want to make it seem like oh, well, the
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: man is a horrible one in this relationship and the
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: woman is a pure angel who's like doing everything right.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Like they're not treating each other well, but we understand
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: we have all the context as to why, like she's
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: not treating him well because she's frustrated by her and
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: being pushy and and so for her it's a lot
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of just like built up resentment and frustration. All this
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: to say that it's just like it's not the very
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: like kind of one dimensional, cartoonish version of abuse and
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: mistreatment that we often see depicted in media. It's so
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: interesting hearing both of you, like right off the bat
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: point out the abuse because I didn't even think it
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: was abusive when I first saw it. Now I'm like, yeah,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: this man is definitely abusive. For me, I was just like,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: this is just like a real relationship, you know, um,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: And now looking it just shows just shows me how
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: much I've like I learned. I feel like since I've
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: seen this movie twelve years ago, totally totally. I mean
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think I would have, you know, seen seen
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: his behavior as abuse when I first saw it either. Yeah,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like and I feel like the way it
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: was presented at the time, and again it's like it's
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: so tough because I feel like so much of what
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: I took in about this movie was other people's reaction
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: to it versus just watching the movie. And it is
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: kind of like like we're saying kind of like a
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: mirror movie in a lot of ways. But yeah, I mean,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like that was not the discussion around this
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: movie at all. It was like life is tough, relationships
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: are hard, and you're like, yeah, but also there's clear
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: abuse in a way that I don't know, I'm kind
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: of I I appreciate how much care is taken by
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the movie to contextualize Cindy's attitude towards men and relationships.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I do feel like it like possibly gets a little
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: trauma porny for my taste because it's Derek writing the movie, right,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and like so you're like, okay, Like I think he
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: did have at least one woman who co wrote the
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: movie with him. Yeah, we've got Cammie de Lavine is
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: maybe how you pronounce her name, and then Joey Curtis
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: plus Derek all co wrote, all have writing credits on
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: this script. And I know that, like Michelle Williams like,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: even though she's not a creditive writer, had a lot
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: of input on her character, and like, it wasn't just Derek,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: but I mean, they're they're every I mean every man
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: in Cindy's life completely fails her, which unfortunately is not
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: the most uncommon experience. We haven't quite talked about this yet,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: but I also appreciate that this movie takes place in
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: like the working class, which romance movies never ever do.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: It's still obviously an extremely white movie, but the fact
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: that it's a romance that's being taken seriously in the
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: working class at all, unfortunately, is like worth noting. But
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of all the men in Cindy's
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: life that we get context for it, we get context.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: One of the really difficult ones that I feel like
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the movie almost doesn't touch on that much because it
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily need to, is like her relationship with her father,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: because her father was abusive towards her mother, who I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: think has died by the time the movie starts. And uh,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: it's clear that like poor like Cindy has seen her
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: grandmother be in a loveless marriage with her grandfather, has
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: seen her mother be abused by her father, and her
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: takeaway is like, I don't want to be in a
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: relationship like that, But she's a teenager and still hasn't
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: really like quite processed that abuse by the time she
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: gets into a relationship with Dean, and then it's like
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I wish I knew, like what the reasoning for this is.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I don't dislike the choice, but like my guess was
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: that it had to do with partially like she hadn't
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: she hasn't processed everything, and partially sometimes it's like a
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: class thing where her dad is still in her life
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: because she kind of needs his help with childcare, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: it's like she fully knows that, like he was a
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: piece of ship to her mother, and you don't really
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: get closure on that issue, but he's still around, and
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: it's like and she also is taking care of him
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: now the way that it seems like she's taking care of,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: you know, her grandmother, Like she's taking care of people
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: her whole life, and now it's like she's also taking
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: care of Dean because she keeps bringing up like you're
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: my second child, which he basically is. And then there's
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: how Bobby treats her, and that's like Bobby, I feel
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: like it's as close to we get as a clear
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: cut villain because he's kind of like like he's a
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: villain jock. I feel like it's as close to a
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: stock character as we get in this movie. And his
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: abuse toward her is so much more like obvious than
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Dean's abuse. So I can understand why people like especially
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: in wouldn't have picked up on a lot of Dean's
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: behavior as abusive because it's far more subtle and it's
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: not the like screaming belligerent like fuck you bitch, which
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: is like what Bobby says to Cindy. So, Bobby Ontario,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you know what I think Dean's character is. Okay, this
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: is how I'm processing this. So, like Bobby Ontario is
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: the classic like misogynists, like oh, like sports jock person, right,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: and then you know, like when you're like in high school,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, here's like the emo skateboarder guy that's
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: like not like those other guys. He's like a musician
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: and he's sensitive and he where's eyeliner. But then he
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: ends up just being another misogynist, but in a different
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: like yeah, he's an alto misogynists. He's all he's not
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: like the other studded belt. Yeah, he's not like the
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: other Like he's skateboards. You know. It's it's like when
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: you were in high school and you're like, oh, the
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: skateboarder guys are like artsy, they're going to treat me
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: with respect. But it's just like it's just another brand
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: of And I feel like Ryan Gosling is just that
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: caricature in this movie. And so you're like tricked into
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: being like, well, he plays the ukulele and he he's
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: in love with me and blah blah blah. And then
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: at the end you're like, wait, this is the same
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: this is the same thing. It's his Bobby Ontario, the
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: same guy. Yeah, he's he's just like a sensitive misogynists.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Like we see him cry over the death of their dog.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's what we should call this Ryan gosling stock character,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: the sensitive misogynist, because I feel like that is kind
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: of like who he is, ULTI misogynists. It's like the Yeah,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of memes about that character. Now,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: like the guy that wears nail polish and then he
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: still punches a hole in your drywall, but he's wearing
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: mail polished. So we see him punch a bunch of
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: walls or like a fence, Like he never takes his
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: physical aggression out on Cindy, but he's he's like, does
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: punch a bunch of like inanimate objects. He's got rage issues.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: And also he keeps, oh god, this is unfortunately something
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: that is like come up for me in relationships in
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: the past. Word Like he's like patting himself on the
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: back for not hitting her. That seven where he's like,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not going I hate you because I love you.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you want to fucking metal? Like,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: thank you the lowest bar imaginable. Good for you. He's like,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm staying with you. Like it's like or don't
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: or don't I have to? Can I just say what
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say about what you were saying about class?
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: That's such a good point, Jamie, Like that is so
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: because you never see it on screen, and with the
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: with the backdrop of class, all these things make sense,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Like your dad's abusive, why are you hanging out with him?
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Because I'm fucking poor? Like what I'm fucking poor? I
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: need my dad in my life, Like I can't just
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: like go to Italy for five months or whatever. You know. Um,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: But like, also the class thing is interesting, and also
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: what it reminds me of is like something like my
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: mom would tell me, because I think the divorce thing
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, I was joking about
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Derek's family being divorce and that sad, but like that
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: is very traumatizing to people if your parents get the
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: vor But my parents didn't get divorce and they had
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: a really horrible marriage and they're still together, and that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: was like a different kind of trauma. And like the
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: level of sadness and darkness that's in this movie is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: their relationship. It's like the scene where they're yelling at
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: the future hotel room is like their everyday to life,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. But then also what
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: it reminds me of is like my mom is like
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: because you know, like what you're saying about in the movie,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: like her grandma had this and then her mom had this.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Like every generation back in my family had it worse
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: than the next generation. So like when I was married,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: my my marriage was like I mean, there was like
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: probably abusive things that we would do to each other,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: but it was there was no real, like outright abuse.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: It just was a marriage that didn't work, do you
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And my mom was just like,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: why are you getting divorced? He doesn't hit you, he
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a gambling problem. And I was like, so,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's like and I'm like, well, because
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: our marriage doesn't work, like we were not like in
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: love with each other, and why does somebody have to
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: like break your arm before? You know, like it's like
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: hard bore. So. But my mom also, you know, like
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: really really poor and like because of class, Like she
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: even if she wanted to leave, she couldn't and she
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: didn't end up leaving. And they're okay now, but you know,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: like that it's like, that's such an interesting thing that
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: you brought up, because I feel like people don't talk
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: about that in movies. Yeah. And then speaking of class,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: so director Derek had Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams lived
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: together in rural Pennsylvania in a house with their on
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: screen daughter, who was again just a five year old
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: kid um and basically gave them a very minimal grocery budget.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: They had to live on what the actual character's salary
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: would have been, so caused playing as poors, how ext
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: basically or oh my god, Derek made them go very
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: method to basically enhance the tension between them when they
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: shot all of the scenes that take place in the present,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: including something that I think is extremely fucked up where
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: director Derek he like initiated fights between them and so
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: the actors would like fight in real life. And then
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: one night he quote told Gosling to go into Williams's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: bedroom and try to make love to her. Oh my god,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Gosling soundly rejected, ended up sleeping on the couch. So
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: director Derek was like, hey, Ryan Gosling, go try to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: have sex with Michelle Williams, your co star, who's also
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: actively warning the death of her husband. Like that's up
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: to do. That's up to do, period, but like at
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: that point in her life. I read that interview as
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: well and like that is fucking evil. And he also
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: mentions Stanley Koprick and same interview as if that's like
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: a pro of Like, well, yeah, Stanley Cooper used to
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: do this to his stars. You're like, yeah, and that
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: was really fucked up. Why are we speaking about you
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: know what, I stand by everything shitty I said about Derek.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I don't take any of it back. I do like
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: this movie, but that's like a fun that's not necessary.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: It's not necessary. They're good actors, you're actors. They can
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: add that is so funny. But the cause playing as poor.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, imagine you only have seventy dollars to go
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: grocery shopping and they're like, I can't do this, it's
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: too hard, and that is like that. That to me
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: is like super annoying. But it's like if everyone's on
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: the same page about it, then whatever. But like that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: anecdote about trying to get Ryan Coussling to go in
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: her bedroom, I found, oh my god, very upsetting. I
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: fucking hated it. Derek, Derek, Derek. I hope he's listening.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: He's going to listen to this. He's a definitely listening.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: He's our biggest fan. Speaking of all of the men
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: in Cindy's life who completely fail her, her boss this
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: doctor guy. So we get a few different scenes with
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: him throughout the movie, and the arc here is basically
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: he's offering her an opportunity. It's some other hospital, it
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: seems kind of far away, and then she eventually figures
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: out that he has ulterior motives with this Basically he's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: trying to get her away from her family because he
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: wants to date her. Why do we think so many
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: women who are perfectly capable of imposter syndrome, Well, exactly
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: like this. She even says like, I thought you wanted
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: me there because I'm good at my job, and then
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: he's just like, okay, I'll see you in the other room.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: And then what happened shortly after this is her belligerent
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: husband comes in and punches this doctor in the face.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: So then she has to like help and care for
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: this guy who just made this indecent proposal at her
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: and then he fires her. Just everything that happens there
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: was like, I mean, realistic, but extremely upsetting and just
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: further proof that she's just like has the misfortune of
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: every man who she knows or has known being awful
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: to her. And this goes back to the class discussion too,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: because it's like one of the last scenes in the
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: movie is a flashback to the first time she brings
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: home Dean to her family, and the family has all
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: of this missing context. They don't know that she's pregnant,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: they don't know that it's not Deans. They're clearly judging
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Dean based on his job and class in a way
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: that's not necessarily fair, but there's it was something that
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: like I don't know, I remember from if I ever
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: brought up a boy home when I was young, is like,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: especially when you're sort of like Cindy is very much
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: viewed as like the hope of her family and the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: first a character who I mean, she is extremely intelligent,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: and she does seem passionate about medicine, and there are
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: all like Dean is a large factor to why her
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: career is derailed, but he's not the only factor, and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: like that is also complicated, but it's clear that her
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: family views her as like the person that's going to
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: like not die in the class she was born in
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: and like has all this potential and like, of course
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: they're kind of clinging to that in a way that
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: puts pressure on her. And it's just that element as well.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: And then the fact that like, including the reason you
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: just describe Caitling with this fucking horrible boss that is
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: hitting on her and then fires her for reasons that
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: are beyond not her fault, is just like it's so
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: devastating because that ship happens, and oh god, that scene
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: is so frustrating because it's like it's in that scene
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: too where it's like Dean punches the doctor in the face.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: You're like, well, I want the doctor to get punched
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: in the face, but not like this, Like he's not
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: even punching someone in the face for the right reason.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: She gets like punished for all the failures of all
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: the men around her. Basically, yeah, again, unfortunately a relatable
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: experience for women, but doesn't make it any easier to watch. Also,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: one of the ways in which Dean is like subtly
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: mistreating her throughout the movie is it so like she
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: has aspirations to be a doctor. We know that she
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't end up there. She um gets a job as
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: a nurse. I like to think she does after they
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: get divorced school, right, but she when when we see
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: the flashbacks of her in college, she is planning to
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: be a doctor, and then Dean says to her like, basically,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: you're too hot to be a doctor, girls, is pretty
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: as you shouldn't be doctors, you shouldn't be studying. And
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: she comments on this type of thing that he says
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: to her because he does it for where he like
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: compliments her quote unquote actually more insults her, but it's
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: it's like a half compliment half insult where he says, Oh,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: you're so beautiful, that must mean that you're also like
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: quote unquote crazy. He says, I'm a sensitive misogynist. I know.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: It's so frustrating, and she calls him out on it
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: too in that moment, but it's still like it's not
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: quite enough. She's like, you're insulting me and complimenting me
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: at the same time, and he's like, I'm not, like
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: fuck and like, yeah, that this seems to be something
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: that he did. I also got the sense that, um,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: she's resentful of him because he's wasting his potential. And
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's also her being resentful because she I
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: think kind of blames him for her also squandering her
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: potential because she kind of blames him for holding her
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: back and like for her like never becoming a doctor.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, there's definitely some projection going
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: on in this relationship. That's the word I was trying
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: to say. One thing I wanted to bring up really quick,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: just before we completely move on from that kind of
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: peak confrontation scene at the doctor's office. This is a
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: small thing. But I appreciated it having it there because
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: we don't get to see I mean, as we'll discussed shortly,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: we don't get to see Cindy interact with other women
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: outside of her grandma very much. It doesn't seem like
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: she has a big network of friends, so to see
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: in that scene she has. I think that she's named
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: as well, that these interactions don't pass the Backel test
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: because they're all like, let's get Ryan gossling in the
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: funk out of here. But she has a coworker who
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: it's clear she's spoken to about the abuse in the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: marriage before. I think Mimi mean, oh yes, yes, and
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: her friend at work is like trying to help her
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: out and try helping her try to mitigate this situation,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: and also tries to, you know, help her around the
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: boss as well, Like they're in this fucking like laser,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: you know, maze of toxic men. And I just appreciated
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: that Mimi was there and like kept trying to be like, hey,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: get the funk out of here, like you're gonna get
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: your wife fired, which he does and it's right. And
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: also you would think that Mimi probably knows that their
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: boss is a piece of ship too that would do
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: something like that. Um, does anyone have anything else they'd
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: like to discuss? Wait, what's the nipple scale? What's what
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: is that? Oh? Gosh, okay, So our nipple scale is
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: to five nipples based on just examining it through an
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens. So a movie that handles things really
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: responsibly and has a feminist message and it's just like
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: an amazing feminist masterpiece that would get five nipples, And
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: then you know, your average Michael Bay movie would get
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: zero nipples. I thought that that was about how many
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: nipples you see in the movie, because I think you
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: see four nipples. You see a fair number of nipples.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: You see both of their nipples. Speaking of nipples, you
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: know the shower scene where he gets in and he's
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: trying to like have sex with her and he's starts
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: sucking on her nipples and she's like, oh, don't do that,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I felt that in my soul
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: of my nipples. You know, when you're not wanting to
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: have sex and someone's like trying to suck on your nipples,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: You're like, he's sexually pushy. It's like it's gross. I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about just one other. Like, there's like
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: these little moments that are so realistic that are like
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: burned into my brain. I think when like somebody throws
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: the keys and they have to both look for the keys. Oh,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: he takes off his wedding ring. Oh, the wedding right
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: after she's like, I want to divorce, So he flings
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: his wedding ring and then he's like real gold because
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that could be like a class thing if
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it's real goal. You know, when you're poor, you can't
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: be just fucking throwing that so old ring in the dirt.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: You gotta look for that. That's three, you can get
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: the pawn shop. Yeah, yeah, I guess the nipple thing.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: I have to say this is like this is like
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: a really realistic movie, so I guess the misogynistic parts
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: of it are kind of realistic. So I don't even
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: know if there's like I don't know, I personally can't
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: think of like an outwardly except for the abortion scene,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: which I think I think that's really I just want
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: people to never do that again. And I don't think
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: men should be writing scenes like that ever, again like
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like it's actually happened to them,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: but like, yeah, I don't know what what do you what?
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: What's your nipple rating for this movie? I am a
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: good question. Well, first, I just I don't think this
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: movie passes the factual test, not at all, because even
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: the few the like little tiny bit where like Cindy
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: and Mimi interact, it's uh in the context is they're
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: talking about Dean and their boss. When Cindy and her
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: grandma talk about like I forgot to pay attention, I
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: was paying attention. I think the whole conversation, the subtext
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: of it is like, how do you find romantic love
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: with a man that isn't traumatizing and terrible? Um So,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: the subtext is definitely men, yes, right right right? Um So,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: No to the Bechtel test nipple scale, I would give
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: this three or three and a half nipples because I
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: do think that despite it being the whitest movie I've
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: ever seen, it does represent a lot of things about
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: a relationship going downhill. The subtleties and nuances of the
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: abuse in this relationship, I think are handled in a
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: way that is far more authentic and nuanced than that
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: usually gets represented on screen. I think that you get
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of context for and more context for Cindy's
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: character and backstory than you do for Dean, which I
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: think like priority given to the woman in this you know,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: hetero relationship, priority given to her characterization is not something
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: that usually happens. Yeah, I think that a lot of
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: this is it sucks that this like really realistic portrayal
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: of a relationship, is the character's mistreating each other and
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: a really bummer of a story. Uh, the abortion scene,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: I do. I agree that it is like the one
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: thing that I think is handled irresponsibly, and I wish
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: that there was more representation in media of just very
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: normalizing getting an abortion and it not being a huge
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: deal at not being an extremely traumatic thing, that it's
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: just a choice that someone makes and follows through with
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: that procedure, and that scene could have been handled much
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: differently without the movie changing that much to like it
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't need to happen that way. Sure, absolutely, yes, So
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I think I'll give it. I'll give it three and
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: a half nipples on our scale if I was rating
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: it on a Caitlin do you have fun watching this
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: movie scale? On my Rambo meter. It is a zero
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: zero on the Rampo meter, negative negative ten million romps.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: One thing you could say about this movie is it
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: is not fun. Fun is not the word. That's not why,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: that's not why Derek makes movies. Apparently can find an
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: example of him wanting us to be in a good
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: mood Derek. And of course not every movie has to
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: be a romp. But there's a lot I appreciate about
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: this movie. Three and a half nipples. I will give
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: one to Michelle Williams because she gave an incredible performance.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: I will give of one to Little Frankie. I'll give
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: one to Megan The dog makes you rest in peace.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: And you know what, I'm not going to give it
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: a half nipples, So just three nipples is my official rating.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Because I don't like to be bummed out, I'm gonna
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: go three and a half. I think that this movie
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: there there are I mean, I think we've hashed out
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: the issues with it. It's an extremely white movie. I
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: think that the only non white character is Ryan Gosling's
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: coworker Marshal, who we only get in a couple of scenes.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: We get no context really for who he is. He's
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: mostly just there to listen to Ryan Gosling, which obviously
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: is just like very unfortunately in especially in this like
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: moody tense drama is very expected and frustrating and like
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: not necessary at all should always be called out. And uh,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the abortion scene. I'm so grateful that we had that
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: discussion young me because I feel like, I because whatever,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: I've seen this movie so many times over the years
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't even like thought given the correct amount
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: of thought to how that scene is presented. So those
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: are the two things that really stick out to me.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Is like just irresponsible when they came out and have
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: aged even worse. Um. I do really appreciate the class
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: elements to this story. Um, it feels rare that, like
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know that there's really this is like the
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: main famous movie about a breakup that is about poor people. Uh,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: you don't like because you get so many movies that
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: are like a marriage story and it's like half of
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: the divorce is like, well, who's going to get wood property?
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: And it's like this is not relatable to most of
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: people who see fucking movies. Like I appreciate that it's
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: like not only a breakup, but it's it's clear that
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: like their backgrounds affect their ability to break up, and
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: like that is not something that's often brought up. And
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: I appreciate how the idea of like this romantic emo boy,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Like it's kind of like cool to see the Ryan
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Gosling character he'd been playing for ten years be deconstructed
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: in a movie. And I've pretty like self aware. Way, um,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: we didn't talk about this, but something that I thought
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: was like really well done on the rewatch that I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: doubt I picked up on the first time I saw
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: it was Ryan Gosling's character talking about like, oh, you know,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: women are less romantic than men because blah blah blah,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: when it's so obvious that he has no understanding of
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: stuff we've talked about, like in terms of class of
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: like the history of women and why a woman may
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: marry for some level of security because the world does
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: not value her in the same way. Like just all
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: this ship I had. This movie held up honestly better
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: than I was expecting it too. I still feel like
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: there's a lot that you can get out of it.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: If if you're going through a breakup and you want
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: to just fucking lose your mind, then give it a rewatch.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: It's streaming for free right now. Um, I was really
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: crying so much. It took me four hours to watch
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: this movie. Anyways, three and a half nipples. I'm doing great, guys.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: I'm giving all my nipples to Megan. Megan, that dog
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: young me. How about you? Um, I don't know. I
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: would say also three, I would I would say, Okay.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I'm very sensitive about when movies
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: only have white people, and I'm very sensitive about the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: Bechtel test. I've never said that out loud. Is that weird?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, I think in my head I thought it
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: was like bastal or something that I had a weird
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: pronunciation in my head for years. I can't believe I've
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: never said that aloud, embarrassing myself at parties. Um, I'm
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: very sensitive about that. I'm very sensitive about when movies
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: are all white. But I have to say, because this
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: movie is just about two people, basically, I'm like a
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: little bit more forgiving. Because even even Ryan Gosling, I
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: don't think he had a conversation with anyone about anything
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: besides his wife in the movie either. I don't know
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: sure maybe he did. So it's it's because the movie
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: is only basically about two people, I'm a little bit
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: more forgiving of that when usually if it's like an
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: all white movie, I'm like, no, there's no fucking way
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to watch this, like how they are they?
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: But um? And then also the class thing, and I
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: think it's very important. I think class like is too
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: hard to think about and it's too painful, and people
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: just don't like to look at it. But the truth is,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: most relationships, I would even I'm gonna say this, most
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: relationships in America because of how where like the socio
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: economic status of Americans, which more than half of us
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: live in poverty, look like this, This is what most
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: relationships look like. You fucking have to stay with this person.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: You have to go like dig in the dirt for
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: the two and a gold ring, because like you don't
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: have a choice, and like we should explore that more.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: It's important. Nobody wants Yeah, nobody wants to see the
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: fucking story about the person arguing about who gets the
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: beach house. I totally agree with you, Like, what the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: hell does that mean? It makes me feel like shit,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: like I'm going through a divorce to I'm eating peanut
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: butter sandwiches for a month, you know, like, yeah, I
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: think the class thing, really, I think the class thing
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: is what saves this movie and turns in my head
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: of like why it's important to exist and you know what,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to hats off to Derek, Derek. Thank you
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: for doing that, Director Derek. Director Derek. Yeah, we don't
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: forgive you for the weird like trying to make Ryan
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: sleep with Michelle thing that was weird and you should
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: feel bad. Yeah, I hope he feels bad. I'm just
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: like God, I hope people grow like fuck well, Young Me,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. It's been an
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: absolute delight. What would you like to plug? Where can
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: people follow you online? All that good stuff? Um, you
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: can follow me on social media at why Am Mayor,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: My TikTok is Young Me Mayor and I have a
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: podcast called Feeling Asian Podcasts. You can follow on social
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: media at Feeling Asian Podcasts everywhere, and then you can
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: listen everywhere. We have new episodes every Wednesday. Right now,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to record with them the woman Natalie who
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: was on Love is Blind. Oh my god. Yeah, So
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I'll let you know how that goes. So that episode
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: should be out by the time this is out hopefully
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: hell huge, yeah yeah everyone, be sure to check that
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: out and then you can check us out on Twitter
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: which is at patreon dot com slash pecktel Cast. It
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: gets you tu bonus episodes every month plus access to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: the back catalog, and that is five dollars a month.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: And if you want to get merch, that's over at
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the back till past. In
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: the mean time, I hope this didn't bum you out
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: too much, but guess what, sometimes it's a bummer. And
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Damia decided I love you again, let's get back together. No,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: come on no. In that case, he does apologize, but
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: I don't accept his apology. By okay, bye,