Latest / The Chris and Mike Show / #134 - Josh Mack - The Sandbox: Networking for Veterans

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#134 - Josh Mack - The Sandbox: Networking for Veterans · The Chris and Mike Show

0:18
What's up there, boys and girls, is the Chris and Mike show.
0:19
I'm Chris. He's Mike.
0:20
And this is Joshua Mack. Did I say that right, Josh?
0:23
Yeah, you did. Do you prefer, do you prefer
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Josh or Joshua? Josh.
0:28
But you know, when I try to do business things, I think Joshua
0:31
sounds more professional, but Josh is fine.
0:34
OK, cool. Right.
0:36
So welcome to the show. For those of you that are just
0:38
joining in, we are, we are live on Twitch and YouTube.
0:41
So that's always fun. And so Josh, we just kind of
0:44
dive into shit, man. We don't we're kind of really
0:46
informal. We just have conversations.
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So tell us who you are, what you're all about, and why you
0:50
wanted to come on our show that's broadcasting into 22
0:53
countries now. Hey, congratulations.
0:55
That's an amazing feat. Thank you.
0:57
Thank you. Yeah, so my name is Josh Mack.
1:00
I also go by J Mack. It's also the name of the
1:02
podcast that I started where I combat veteran and 1st responder
1:06
suicide. One story, one conversation at a
1:08
time. A little back story about me.
1:10
I grew up in a small country town in the South, like 45
1:13
minutes South of Chicago. But whatever you think it's
1:17
called, Beecher. OK, I'm in Pontiac.
1:20
Yeah, and, and my hometown's, my hometown is Pleasant Plains, IL,
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just outside of Springfield. We had 804 population about 10
1:27
years ago. OK, yes, I think you beat me.
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I graduated with like 80 kids. OK, I was only there till I was
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3, but it's still my hometown. So I don't, I don't, I don't
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know what size of all the things are.
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I just went back to for my grandmother's funeral and all of
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a sudden they had a monument, you know, when you enter the
1:43
town. Yeah.
1:45
And it was like population, Henry, before I was like, oh,
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wow. Huge.
1:50
Metropolis. Absolutely.
1:54
So continue, J Mack. Yeah, so I grew up like
1:59
volunteering and helping with my dad, who is now a retired police
2:02
officer. OK.
2:04
So I always had that desire to serve and give back to the
2:07
community. I decided to join the Marine
2:09
Corps. Nice. 2013 to 17, non combat,
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didn't see any deployments, anything like that.
2:15
I went to Oman for about a month.
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My son, my son, my son's a devil dog all.
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Right. Yeah, buddy.
2:24
Absolutely, yeah. And then so after I got out of
2:29
the Marine Corps, everyone's like, you're going to get lost
2:31
all this expectations. And I was like, no, I'm not,
2:33
that's not going to happen to me.
2:35
And well, it happened to me. And one day I I see my buddy
2:38
post a meme that said stop doing the push ups and pick up the
2:41
phone and call your buddy referencing the 22 a day push up
2:45
challenge. And then I went to therapy and I
2:48
told my therapist that I had this idea.
2:50
I pitched it to a former baseball player but due to
2:53
liability reasons he didn't want to do it.
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And she tried to convince me to go live in her office right then
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and there to start the podcast. Wow.
3:00
I was like, you're crazy, let's switch chairs real quick.
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But I went home and made the video like I promised, and that
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began Start at the Gym Mac podcast.
3:08
Cool. That's awesome.
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That's I'm I'm. That is.
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Awesome. Yeah.
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I don't know how much you've watched about us and, and the
3:15
show and whatnot, but I'm all about volunteering.
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I, I was a meal coordinator for a homeless outreach service for
3:20
over three years. I got on the board of that, of
3:22
that company. Unfortunately, I saw some things
3:25
that that I wouldn't shut up about, so they asked me to
3:28
leave. I've since gone into the Rotary
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Club in Mesa, which is all about volunteering.
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We 22, we do 24 different volunteering things a year.
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I've run my wife and I runner. So we've every time something
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comes up with the wounded warriors or 22 too many, we
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we're all about that. So I mean, obviously military
3:45
family. So nothing but mad respect for
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what you've, what you've started based and, and what you've kind
3:51
of explained it's about because it's, it's, it's a true thing.
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Like our son's kind of struggling with right now.
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Like you said, when you get out of the Marine Corps, like you're
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lost. And so he's, he kind of goes
4:00
back and forth where he's going to stay, go, stay, go.
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But so now he's kind of in that mindset that he wants to get out
4:05
at the end of his 8 1/2 years. And we're kind of, we're focused
4:09
on him make, you know, kind of get lined up with what you want
4:12
to do afterwards, right? Because you spend your entire
4:14
life and the brains being told what to do and then you get out
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and it's like, well, now what? Because nobody is there to tell
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you what to do. So I think and I, I couldn't
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serve. They wouldn't let me in because
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my asthma is too bad. I tried, I tried everybody but
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the Air Force and they all told me to go home.
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So you were non combat, my son's non combat because he was a
4:33
backup shipper, right? So he got stuck in this box of
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three jobs and the only one that he could do was the accounting
4:38
supply and logistics is because he's color deficient.
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So so it's a real thing, right? When you get out, all of a
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sudden it's like you decompress a little bit, right?
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And you're kind of like, oh, I'm free.
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And then what? Take us down that path.
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So people understand it's it's it's not that your PTSD, that
4:55
kind of shit, you know, especially non combat.
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But you, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong there, but once you
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get out of you kind of have this like now what?
5:03
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
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What's best is at least six months prior to already be
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planning, at least six months plan prior to getting out, be
5:13
planning, have a plan. But the real key, I believe, is
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finding your purpose outside of the Marine Corps.
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Like your purpose inside the Marine Corps is to serve and do
5:22
what your country's asking of you, right?
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And then you get out. And as you stated, we have no
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one telling us what to do. Everything I ran away from that.
5:29
I wanted out. The reasons I wanted out of the
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Marine Corps is actually what made me successful in life and
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all the things that I need, you know, I need that structure.
5:38
I need that routine. So make sure he keeps the
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structure of routine. Get in the gym, get in with
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veteran organizations before you feel like you need veteran
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organizations. Nice.
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Did you say you're in Mesa, AZ? I'm I well, you might as well be
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Mesa Chandler. I'm in the East Valley, so yeah,
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I'm in. I'm in surprise.
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Oh, right on. What up dude?
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Yeah, so I'm going to help you out one step forward.
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I created this event called The Sandbox.
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It's a networking event for veterans and 1st responders that
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focus on providing mental health resources.
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I do a 30 minute podcast recording and then I pull up the
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mental health resources that I brought in and give them up to
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two minutes to give their spiel, who they are, what they do, how
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they help, and how they can use help.
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It's once a month so Thursday, September 25th will be my next
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one. OK.
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And my whole purpose of that is to, I'm for veterans and 1st
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responders. But truthfully, how can I have a
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mental Health Organization? And just because you don't fit
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the niche, I'm going to tell you to piss off.
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So I don't, I don't, I don't believe in that.
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So I'm for everyone. But we're going to be everything
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we do is led by veterans and 1st responders.
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That's fantastic, man. That is very cool.
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I have all kinds of people walking to my door, man.
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Who's behind me, Mike? Amazon.
6:58
Amazon again. So so so the thing in this I'm
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putting this on our Facebook page right now.
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J Mac So what what is let me get your name down here.
7:10
Joshua Mac whoops. Oh, it's being stupid.
7:19
Dasha Mac IE J Mac. So what's what's the sandbox you
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said it was called? Yes, Sir, it's a. 2 words, 2
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words or one word? Sandbox is one word.
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OK, yeah, 'cause I it was major. So now, now explain that again.
7:37
It's it's a monthly meet up with.
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It's a yeah. So I, the words that I've
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calling it right now is a monthly networking event for
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veterans and 1st responders with mental health resources and a
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live podcast recording so they can hear the real raw,
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vulnerable conversations that need to be had.
7:54
Like everyone struggles. Yeah.
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And combat and combat or not, you still struggle from the
7:59
military. But truthfully, most of our
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struggles start with our childhood, The beginning, this
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first sandbox we were in that traumatized.
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As well. Oh yeah, OK.
8:10
Yeah. So like it's basically how we
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react today is what we learned or did not learn as a child
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growing up and then not then you join the military or whatever
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life experience you go through and that just compounds on to
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the traumas and all that that you have.
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So really we just got to go back and heal our inner child, to
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work through all of our traumas. That's that's deep, man.
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Absolutely. I never, I never, I never
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thought of it that way because I mean, yeah, that's interesting.
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That's a whole, that's a whole different dynamic on on the
8:45
traumas and the demons that people have.
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You got to go all the way back to the childhood and understand
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what you didn't address then and how you didn't address it.
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Right. Like respectfully, your son was
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pre positioned to joining the Marine Corps from a young age
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because whatever he's seen went through and how he chose to
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handle it it. We were kind of crazy to join
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the Marine, the military to begin with and then to go to the
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Marine Corps, right, Right. Not many people are willing to
9:10
sign up to do that. No, because that's by far the
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hardest of all four branches. I don't care what you say, right
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for sure. You just.
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I mean, because if you're a Marine, you can leave the Marine
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Corps two days later, decide you want to go be in the Army, and
9:22
you just walk into the Army. Like, OK, sign here because
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you're a badass. Like, nobody does the Crucible
9:27
except the Marines, right? We had friends that their kids
9:31
went into the military as well. One went to the Air Force and
9:33
they were fucking calling home every other day because they
9:36
kept their cell phones. Like, are you kidding me?
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It's, you know, and then and then our son had had the, the
9:41
mindset that he was going to be a drill instructor.
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So in from accounting, supply and logistics and, and then got
9:47
accepted to the boot camp for drill instructor.
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So he went through boot camp twice and then he became the
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drill instructor. So then he's going through boot
9:54
camp again as as the drill instructor side of it.
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So talk about insanity, right? It just, but you know, he's kind
10:02
of driven like that and he's, he likes to be challenged.
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He's got to have something in front of him to go after
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otherwise he just gets bored out of his mind.
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And then, you know, the brain starts wandering and and he was,
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you know, our, our lifetime together wasn't anything
10:16
traumatic or you know it. We were very well grounded
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family had, you know, family dinners and we, both my wife and
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I were completely involved in both our kids lives.
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You know, I coached Jake throughout his, his youth and
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things like that. So it's not like we were just,
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you know, neglectful parents. We were super involved.
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So. I didn't mean that whatsoever.
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No, no, no. I know he didn't.
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I know he didn't. Even the best relationships,
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there's still trauma in there. Sure, because there's no way
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your needs were met 110% of the time, right?
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And do you if you have multiple kids, This is something I just
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learned and I'm a dad myself now, right?
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That your kids are not experiencing the same parents
10:56
ever, right? Because of the age gap.
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So you've learned from your first child moving on to your
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second child, you may be a little bit more lenient on your
11:03
second child. Then you wear your first child
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and that causes like hard feelings, traumas, like you're
11:12
potentially choosing the other child over the other.
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And that's not right. As a parent, we're just trying
11:16
to do the best we can with what we have, right?
11:18
Right. Becoming a parent has also
11:21
helped mentally. And it also just has heart hurt
11:23
mentally, right 'cause like it takes a toll on you.
11:25
It's such a blessing and it's so stressful all at the same time.
11:29
But you also got to recognize, looking back at your parents,
11:32
whatever resentment, grudge, happiness you hold towards them,
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We got to realize that wow, they, they were just
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experiencing this for their first time as well.
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You got to be more lenient on our parents as well.
11:43
Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, my parents are hassles,
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man. I haven't talked about them.
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Think. About how they grew up and what
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they had, I'm not justifying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
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get it. Yeah, I get it.
11:56
That's just. Well, I think the biggest
11:58
illusion on this planet is there's a there's such a thing
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as an an adult, right? We all, we all strove to become
12:04
an adult. When I grow up, I'm going to do
12:06
this. It's an illusion.
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Yeah, and you're adults fueled by your inner child, your inner
12:12
child monologue that's inside you.
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Your parents are just people that did the best they could
12:16
with what they had, right? Absolutely.
12:19
In Chris's case, unfortunately, his parents didn't have much,
12:23
right? But I felt like I grew up in
12:25
what people call the nuclear family, right?
12:28
And even my mom and dad, they're just people, right?
12:30
They did the best they could. They admit that.
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I'm not saying anything they don't admit.
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Luckily, I had parents that admitted that we did the best we
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could with what we had the information that we were armed
12:40
with at the time. You just said it.
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I was the oldest, so I was their experiment, right?
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The next two, they learned from that.
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So they got a little better and they got a little better.
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You hear that the youngest always got the best treatment.
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Well, of course they did, because your parents were at
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their at their best at that point.
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If you had one kid, unfortunately that kid didn't
13:02
get that experience. But the older kid in the
13:05
relationship is always going to feel like they got screwed, and
13:08
the younger kids are always going to feel like they got
13:12
screwed, just from a different side, right?
13:16
Yeah, because the younger kids always going to want to be able
13:18
to do the thing that the older kids going to be able to do.
13:20
The older kids always going to want the freedoms and like the
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quote UN quote softness that the younger sibling is getting.
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It's so crazy. If you pay attention, each
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sibling, whether you're the first, middle, or last child,
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they all come with their own like traumas and like ticks and
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all of that where if you pay attention and you could start
13:40
noticing the pattern. Like Sir, I can't give an
13:43
example so I feel like I'm just talking on my ass, right?
13:45
Now, no, I like what? I like what you said earlier
13:48
about that each kid has a different experience from their
13:55
parents. I've, I've never really heard it
13:57
put into those words, but I've heard that story told in just
14:01
that way, right? You, you got 3 kids and a family
14:05
and you'll hear those three kids tell the same story from a
14:09
completely different angle, right?
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My mom and dad dressed me in such horrible clothes.
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Well, the next kid might say my mom and dad dressed us the best
14:19
they could with what they had, right?
14:20
We were poor at the time. That kid understood that, you
14:24
know, at that moment in time, their family was going through a
14:28
hard a hardship where the other kid, all they were thinking
14:31
about is they were getting made fun of at school because they
14:33
weren't going to school with the latest greatest whatever, right?
14:37
Yeah. So I like what you said there,
14:40
that no two kids have the same view of the way they were
14:43
raised. That's that, that's really
14:46
interesting too, because I, I want to, I want to form that
14:48
question to my kids and ask them, you know, hey.
14:50
I do for you too. That's what I thought of right
14:53
away when he said that. Ask each one of my kids what
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what's your perception of your upbringing?
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Because I don't that'll be that'll be a really interesting
15:00
response because we had we had a boy and a girl, which is cool.
15:04
So whenever was asshole, you know, Jake's your favorite.
15:07
Well, you're my favorite daughter.
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Well, I'm your favorite. I'm your no, you're my favorite
15:11
son. She's my favorite daughter.
15:12
So that was the best way around that.
15:13
I'm the favorite kid. Well, you're the favorite
15:15
daughter because I didn't really have a favorite kid.
15:18
And now my daughter has has blessed us with two grandkids
15:21
that are going to be 6 and the other ones was just over 2 and a
15:27
half. And that's kind of a trip
15:28
because your approach and now my approach now because I have my
15:32
youngest, I have the oldest 1 little man.
15:34
I call him, I've had him every morning during the week since he
15:37
was 3 weeks old. But my approach to him is, is,
15:40
is it's so different than what it was with Sky than what it was
15:44
with Jake. So much so that my wife will
15:46
tell me that I have blinders on when it comes to Anthony.
15:50
But at the same time, Anthony respects me more than he
15:54
respects his own mother and and my wife and and his his new and
15:58
his dad just for the simple fact that I've consistently been in
16:02
his life every single day. So when he needs, you know, that
16:06
stern moment, it's I just I get that voice and he just.
16:10
He respects you. You can see it in his eyes even
16:13
in the little clips that you post online.
16:15
It's like he just, he's like hanging on your every move.
16:18
Yeah, so, but if that's that's what that's interesting.
16:21
Man, I never, I never thought of that.
16:24
I never thought of neither most of that.
16:25
Jay blew my mind. This is why we do this dude,
16:28
because we just learn stuff every single single time.
16:31
It's crazy. I'm not sure if it's considered
16:34
research or what, but there is a study out or documentation out
16:39
of two twins that grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and
16:44
they're trying to figure it out if it's nature or nurture,
16:46
right. Both kids, one kid became like,
16:51
we'll say a priest, not doesn't drink, treats women correctly.
16:56
The other kid isn't a direct example of his father, what an
17:00
alcoholic, mean, abusive, whatever.
17:04
And they were asked the same question, what made you this
17:07
way? And they gave the same answer.
17:10
Look how I was raised. Look at my dad.
17:14
Yeah, that just hit me because I'm a 20 year recovery alcoholic
17:18
and and Jake's not old enough really to understand he didn't
17:21
remember it because I stopped. He's 24, so I stopped young
17:26
enough for him not to really have memories.
17:28
But my daughter who's five years older, Wow, that just smacked me
17:35
outside the head. Josh, thanks, man.
17:38
Yeah, well, because she went down, she went down, she went
17:40
down a path. This is where I'm going when she
17:42
went down a path, a very dark path for for several years.
17:44
And so now I can't now that's just making me think, oh, shit
17:48
was. So I'm going to ask that
17:50
question because it'll be interesting to see her response
17:53
because I think Jake's, Jake's Jake's reaction to her chaos was
17:59
that's why he joined the military.
18:00
Like he. We were those parents.
18:02
Once you're done with high school, you get a job, you go to
18:04
school or you join the military. There's no, there's no fucking
18:07
around. There's no sleeping until 10:00.
18:09
There's no, you know, going out with your friends till 3:00 in
18:11
the morning. Now you have to have a direction
18:13
in life. One of these things has to
18:14
happen. And he didn't like school, He
18:17
just didn't like study. He's got my brain,
18:19
unfortunately, not my wife's. He had a couple jobs but didn't
18:23
like them because they were just, you know, piss Ant server
18:26
jobs and things like that. Not that that's not a bad
18:28
occupation just for a kid. It's just, you know, just wasn't
18:32
So he just right. So he just, he came home one day
18:34
from high school and said, I'm, I'm, I'm going to the army.
18:37
I'm going to be a diver. I'm like, whoa, dude, there's
18:39
not divers in the Army. Who's who's feeding you
18:42
bullshit. And I had AI had a good friend
18:45
that my wife's actually caught their kids.
18:47
And then I, they used me to help them purchase a home.
18:49
So I'm like, hey, we're going to call Steve, Steve Fishers or not
18:52
Steve Fishers. Steve Steve West is going to
18:54
come over and he's a Marine. He's going to talk to you.
18:56
And I knew he would give Jake the the the just the real raw
19:00
relevance about all four branches, you know, the ups and
19:03
downs, insurance and outs. And they sat in the dining room
19:06
for about an hour and a half. And he hadn't made-up his mind
19:10
yet. This is kind of a funny story.
19:11
And Steve leaves. And so Jake and I kind of talk a
19:13
little bit, but I'm like, dude, you do you.
19:15
I got your back. Regardless.
19:17
He next day he went to see Toy Story four with one of his
19:21
buddies from high school. Came home.
19:22
He's like, I'm join the Marines. OK.
19:28
How does Toy Story 4 equate to joining the Marine son?
19:31
I don't know, dad. I'm just, I'm just going to do
19:33
it. I'm like, all right, cool.
19:34
You're going to be a bad ass. So, but that's that's
19:37
interesting. So yeah, I'm going to I'll tell
19:40
you how that how that answer is when I asked my daughter that
19:43
question, because that's I've never asked her about her
19:47
upbringing and her how she looked at it.
19:49
And I never you never really asked her what made her turn to
19:54
the dark side or you know, so that's going to be an
19:56
interesting response that may. Shake my day fro and don't don't
20:02
put that all on you right like you ended up setting the right
20:06
example. You got sure took care of
20:08
yourself right and don't be two ways.
20:12
Don't be surprised if your daughter doesn't fully tell you
20:14
the truth and open up because like.
20:17
I don't know your guys's relationships.
20:19
I don't know how comfortable she's going to feel, right?
20:20
Like, yeah, sometimes you want to keep things from your parents
20:23
still, but also be ready if she opens up and spills something
20:26
you never thought you were expecting to hear.
20:28
Be prepared for that. So don't like, freak out.
20:32
And also, I hate to tell you about your son, but he was a
20:34
contractual alcoholic unless he had some strong.
20:37
No, he's no, he's had, no, he's had he.
20:40
And I don't want to throw him under the bus.
20:41
I don't want to throw him kids in the bus, but he's, he's,
20:44
he's, he's a really good kid. He's very smart.
20:50
But he's made some decisions that I think he regrets.
20:53
He didn't start drinking till he got into the Marines.
20:58
And, and I've, I've, and I've preached, right.
21:00
And I've preached to him and preached to him and preached to
21:02
him. You know, so I don't, because I
21:05
don't see him every day. I can't say whether he's an
21:07
alcoholic, whether he has a problem.
21:09
You know, there's some stuff in his and that's happened since
21:11
he's been Marine that kind of kind of pushes the envelope as
21:14
far as, OK, you have a problem with drinking.
21:18
You know, he's gone in and out of cycles of, of being sober.
21:21
I'm going to stop drinking for this amount of time.
21:24
But because he's, he's not at arm's length for me, I can't
21:28
really ascertain what his actual consumption of alcohol and how
21:34
dependent or not dependent he is on it, if that makes sense.
21:37
But I get what you're saying because it is in my DNA.
21:40
So both of them have that that, you know, example per SE.
21:45
And I mean, I wasn't abusive. I was, I was just I was mentally
21:48
not there emotionally wasn't there.
21:49
I was kind of an ass. I'm saying contractually as when
21:53
he signed the contract for the Marine Corps that obligates.
21:56
You well, and you just said something really important too,
21:58
Chris, that you're nature part of it, the nurture part of it.
22:04
The nature part of it is it is in his DNA, right?
22:07
It was in my DNA. If if your mother or father is
22:11
an addict, your chances of being an addict scientifically are
22:15
super high. It's.
22:16
That's just correct. Yeah.
22:18
You know, so I guess what I'm saying is you people can't beat
22:22
themselves up for that part of it either.
22:24
No, you know. He knew you were an alcoholic,
22:28
she knew you were an alcoholic. So they have some skin in the
22:31
game going into it too. I'm just saying for parents out
22:34
there who beat themselves up, it's like 50% of that is out of
22:38
your control because it's burned into your chromosomes.
22:42
It's in your DNA, right? Yeah, and and you know this,
22:45
Mike, you'd probably don't know this Josh, because you don't
22:47
know my, my story and stuff. But with, with what our daughter
22:52
went down that path of what she went down, Nikki and I, first
22:56
thing we said, it's not our fault.
22:57
Like we didn't, we didn't make these decisions.
22:59
Kind of like my approach to recovery with alcoholic,
23:02
everybody's like higher power work.
23:03
And I, I say this all the time. God didn't make me drink.
23:06
I made myself drink. God didn't make me stop.
23:09
I made myself stop. So we have our own ownership.
23:12
It's it's it's this a free choice, right?
23:15
We have that ability to choose as humans, right or wrong,
23:18
whatever it is, we have that free will.
23:20
So both my kids, yeah, they grew up with an alcoholic father.
23:24
Skyler was maybe 10 when by the time I stopped, Jake was 4 to
23:27
5:00-ish. So Skyler's going to have more
23:29
memories than Jake will. You know, I can remember shit
23:32
from back when I was three to four years old at the trauma
23:34
side of life. So I'm going to, it'll be
23:36
interesting to see what he kind of responds to that question
23:39
too, to see if there's some kind of trauma that he's still
23:42
processing from that time frame. You know, it's interesting, man.
23:49
It's an interesting approach to this, Josh.
23:51
No question. And a lot of it is our
23:53
subconscious, right? Like we don't understand the
23:56
whys because we don't talk to ourselves enough.
23:58
We don't we don't figure it out, but we start craving or we want
24:01
something or we do something so we do it.
24:03
But it's deep down fueled by our subconscious, right?
24:06
There's been evidence that kids have trauma from the umbilical
24:10
cord being wrapped around their neck during delivery.
24:13
So it it it's crazy how far like trauma is stored in our body and
24:18
we have to find ways to release it right?
24:21
It takes a stronger man to cry and talk about his emotions.
24:26
Bottles it up and it's just an angry asshole all the time.
24:29
Right, and that's the difference between this generation and last
24:31
right, because the generation with Mike's parents grew up.
24:33
It's like you don't there's stoic nothing affects me.
24:37
I'm this, I'm this brick wall of, of just I'm a man, you know,
24:42
there's you don't see me cry, you don't see me.
24:44
There's nothing man. There's nothing that affects me.
24:46
Which is complete bullshit. Everybody out there that's still
24:49
hanging on to that. If you're that guy, you're
24:52
wrong. Just so you know, that will kill
24:54
you. I do believe there are certain
24:57
times where you have to be that stoic and strong individual.
25:01
Of course you do when you're defending your family or
25:04
protecting your family or. Or just showing up for your
25:07
family, right? Like as much this, this is
25:10
something I'm work actively working on and it's hard, right?
25:13
Like I want my wife to be my person.
25:15
I want to be able to tell her everything and anything that
25:17
does not always work out in my favor because either she doesn't
25:20
understand what I'm saying or I feel a type of way for telling
25:23
her now I'm judging how she's judging me or whatever.
25:28
But I was introduced to saying that you got to be the man in
25:30
the arena. Sometimes when all eyes are on
25:34
you, you have to perform. But once you get back in that
25:37
tunnel and nobody's watching, you need to decompress.
25:40
So we need to let it out, whether you do it by yourself
25:42
healthily and not picking up a bottle or smoking or whatever
25:47
your poison is, or by going to the gym, talking to a buddy
25:52
there. There's all sorts of different
25:53
ways. And if you ever feel like you're
25:55
alone in a situation where nobody's ever experienced this,
25:58
nobody ever understands, shut the fuck up and wake up, dude.
26:01
We've all been there. There's somebody going through
26:04
something and you just never know.
26:05
That's what I love about my podcast.
26:06
It's like mental health focused. And I try to learn about their
26:10
whole life from beginning sandbox to the end, right?
26:14
And to what they're doing now. And that's because I feel like
26:17
people, Chris, look up to Chris, people look up to Mike.
26:20
They're like, oh man, you guys are such badass.
26:22
You handle things in a different way.
26:24
You don't struggle XYZ. Come on the podcast, you Share
26:28
your story about why you struggle, how you struggle.
26:30
That's so important, How you. Cope.
26:33
So we're learning these different tools and techniques
26:36
or we can recognize the negative, like oh shit, I have
26:38
that bad trade as well. Let me try to work on improving
26:41
that and see how the rest of my life improves and just keep
26:44
growing like we learned from everyone, good or bad.
26:47
That's totally something I was. Just you.
26:49
It's funny how things just come around at the right time.
26:52
I was just thinking about that yesterday while I was taking a
26:54
shower. It's like it's important for us
26:57
to make sure that people understand that Chris and I and
27:01
Josh struggle every day just like they do.
27:04
And that's why Chris makes a point at the end of the podcast
27:07
to say what he says. We have bad days just like
27:10
everybody else, and we try and open up about it on the show for
27:13
the same reason that you just said.
27:16
It may look like we've tackled and conquered life and we got it
27:20
by the balls and now we're succeeding.
27:22
That's true to an extent, but we still have to protect our Peace
27:26
of Mind. We still have to take time, like
27:29
you said, to decompress, to process the things that have
27:32
gone wrong in our lives and to handle it in a healthy,
27:36
constructive way. Instead of reaching for the
27:38
bottle, instead of reaching for the pipe, instead of reaching
27:41
for the line of cocaine or whatever.
27:44
It's, it's just important that right there, what he just put
27:48
out of it is so important. Somebody out there loves you.
27:52
Somebody cares about you. Somebody would miss you if
27:55
you're not here tomorrow, even if you don't on your worst day.
27:58
You think nobody gives a shit about me?
27:59
Nobody's listening to me. I've been through this myself.
28:03
I felt like the whole world was against me and no one was for me
28:06
and nothing could have been further from the truth, right?
28:09
There was people all around me that love me.
28:11
I just couldn't see it, right? Right.
28:15
And. Like did awareness?
28:17
I had a boss used to tell me awareness is $1,000,000 word and
28:21
like after he explained it, it made sense to me.
28:23
But the more that I start to become aware of things, it makes
28:26
sense why it's $1,000,000 word because.
28:30
Us as a society, we've so. Quick to fall into this victim
28:33
mindset and sometimes you don't even realize you're you're
28:36
you're being the victim, right? But as soon as you're aware
28:39
you're being the victim and it aware that your choices LED you
28:42
to where you're at doesn't matter the other.
28:45
OK it's semi matters the other people's reactions, but it's
28:49
your actions and continued choices that get keep you where
28:52
you're at. Right.
28:53
So I actively have to wake up or go to bed every day talking
28:57
positive self loving caring thoughts because before I would
29:02
just spiral and think of everything I hate in my life or
29:05
what I'm mad about today and just me too.
29:07
I went through that period. Too.
29:09
Yeah, dude. So it's a.
29:10
Struggle everyday, but it's a struggle worth fighting for and
29:13
that mindset. That you just said, Josh, is
29:16
something that people really need to take to heart, and I'm
29:18
guilty of it as well. And I still go through these
29:20
periods where Chris said it about his drinking.
29:24
God didn't put the drink in his hand.
29:25
God didn't make him stop drinking.
29:28
No one is going to come save you.
29:32
That is such a hard lesson for people to get over.
29:35
You cannot be of help to anyone else until you help yourself,
29:39
right? I don't like that term.
29:41
Pick yourself up by your bootstraps.
29:43
Because everyone is born into a different situation, right?
29:47
If you're born into the ghetto and getting out of that ghetto
29:50
is a lot harder than the guy sitting up on the hill thinks it
29:53
is, right? But both of those people
29:57
everyday have to decide that they are going to be a positive
30:01
influence into the world, right? Josh telling MM you have to be a
30:07
more positive person. Well, that's a true statement,
30:11
but just you saying that is not going to make me a positive
30:14
person. Mike has to do that for himself.
30:16
Just like Chris had to quit drinking, just like Mike had to
30:19
quit doing drugs. Yes, I just think that's such a
30:22
huge positive concept that it gets overlooked all the time.
30:27
Free will. Yeah, perfect.
30:28
And the the. The crazy part is the person
30:30
will just say living in Beverly Hills versus the one living in
30:34
the ghetto, they could potentially have the same
30:36
mindset, but they're stuck in their own forests, their own
30:39
weeds that they don't see the avenues out of 11 Avenue or out
30:43
of the other. That's a brilliant statement.
30:45
And that's why the guy in. Beverly Hills might.
30:47
Just be as miserable as the guy living in the ghetto or vice
30:51
versa. The the guy living in the ghetto
30:53
might be super happy, just like the guy living in Beverly Hills.
30:56
I always say life is perspective, right?
30:58
Yeah, it's all and how you're approaching it from your
31:01
mindset? Absolutely.
31:04
And like that's. All you can get control is
31:06
yourself and your mindset. And the wildest thing that I
31:10
have learned is that, like, we're not our own thoughts.
31:13
And that blows my mind because like, who the fuck's up there
31:15
then, you know, if that's not me, then who is it?
31:18
But we just got to accept which thoughts we want to dwell on,
31:22
right? If you, if you're having a great
31:24
day and the negative thought comes in, yeah, you can either
31:27
choose to sit with that negative thought and spiral and make it a
31:30
bad day. Or you could choose to like,
31:32
push that to the side and not allow yourself to think about
31:34
that and force yourself to think about something happy or
31:38
something you're grateful for. It's supposedly scientifically
31:42
proven that you cannot be grateful and depressed about
31:47
something at the same time. So when you're start, when I
31:50
start feeling down about something, I think of the
31:52
adverse like the the thing I'm grateful for.
31:55
I try the same thing. Grateful.
31:57
So that way I don't allow myself to go to the negative.
32:00
And some days, dude, I feel like I'm flat out lying to myself and
32:03
I'm just reading a script, you know, Bart Simpson writing I
32:06
will not skate in school again or whatever on the chalkboard
32:09
over and over again. That's exactly what I'm doing.
32:11
I've told Chris before on this. Show I should get some kind of
32:14
fucking award for what I do every day because I should have
32:16
been an actor. Because it really is an act for
32:19
me to go do my job every day. It's a great job.
32:23
I make good money. That's not like it's there's
32:26
people that would die for that job.
32:28
But in my mind, it's just not what I want to do every day.
32:31
It is an act, but I choose to go make the best of it, right?
32:35
So the way I look at life is the things that I don't want to do.
32:38
I just, it's almost like a Zen moment.
32:42
I'm like, this is what I'm doing for this moment, you know, for
32:45
these, this span of hours, this is my life for right now after
32:49
it, I'm going to go do whatever. But instead of looking at it
32:52
like, Oh my God, I got to go to work and I'm not going to make
32:55
it through and it's going to be the worst day ever.
32:57
Well, people do that every day and it is the worst day ever for
32:59
him every day. And then they look at me and
33:01
they say, how come you're always smiling?
33:04
Because I woke up? Because I'm alive, Because I'm
33:07
breathing? Or do you need any other yes?
33:10
Just like they're choosing to frown, you're choosing to smile.
33:13
Thank you. And one thing I really had to
33:15
work on as well is that like, it's not a bad day.
33:17
It's a bad moment. It's a bad hour.
33:20
And forcing myself not to allow it to be a bad day.
33:25
I told Chris when I went through my.
33:26
Recovery. That's how I took life was I
33:29
started with 10 seconds at a time because I was a horrible
33:31
addict. So I went from 10 seconds to 10
33:34
minutes to 10 hours to 10 days, you know, and here we are 18
33:38
years later or whatever. But it started with those micro
33:42
micro moments in time. I called them if I can just make
33:46
it through this moment in time, I'll be OK, right.
33:50
That's your awareness. That's where the. $1,000,000
33:52
word comes in aware. You became aware.
33:54
You just have to focus on the next 10 seconds, the next 10
33:58
minutes. When I was in boot camp, our
33:59
drill instructors told us to best thing to do is focus on
34:03
making it to the next child. Don't worry about how far away
34:05
graduation seems. Worry about making it to the
34:08
next child, to the next child, to the next child and then
34:11
you'll be at graduation. That's totally my mindset man.
34:13
So when someone thinks they can out willpower me, I've been
34:17
willpowering for 18 years to not do hard drugs.
34:20
So congratulations to both of you.
34:23
Thank you. Now with with.
34:26
You, Josh, I want to circle back to you a little bit here.
34:28
So, so when you came out at the Marines, how long were you kind
34:32
of like just struggling with, OK, what am I going to do?
34:34
Where am I going? You know what kind of time time
34:37
transition that take to get you from from getting out to kind of
34:41
finding your your niche and then moving forward with that.
34:46
So I got out. In 2017, and sometimes to this
34:48
day, I still feel like I'm struggling trying to figure it
34:51
out, right? The first couple of years almost
34:56
are a blur. I was still drinking at that
34:59
time, got into a relationship that was toxic at that time, and
35:06
it's just kind of all a blur in a sense.
35:08
So like the first couple of years I didn't even think I was
35:11
struggling. I didn't think I was lost, I
35:13
didn't think anything. I just thought I was going
35:15
through life. And then it took me 3-4 years in
35:20
to realize, oh shit, I am kind of lost.
35:22
I still feel that way to this day, right?
35:24
But I'm also trying to grow something that I don't, I don't
35:26
necessarily have a model to, to mimic to go after, right?
35:31
Like, so long, what I'm trying to do with the sandbox on my
35:35
podcast has become this generation's version of the VFW
35:38
and Lions Club combined, except it's going to be focused on
35:43
being substance free and community healing.
35:45
I'll never be able to get rid of those half true war stories.
35:48
That's just going to be part of nature, right?
35:50
But I can take the drinking or the smoking or whatever
35:52
substance it is out of the situation.
35:56
And then I like to say us as veterans have collectively
35:59
donned the oxygen mask on the airplanes, but the mental health
36:03
one. And now we're ready to spread
36:04
throughout our community to help rebuild and regrow.
36:07
So eventually we're going to be doing things for the community
36:10
that are all led by veterans, whether it's a simple pancake
36:13
breakfast and the veterans and 1st responders are the ones
36:16
serving our community. Because everything I feel is
36:19
dividing us. That's what is people are trying
36:22
to do is keep us divided. And I'm tired of that.
36:24
Like, yeah, why? Let's just all come together.
36:28
Yeah, Agree. Yeah, I stopped.
36:29
Watching the news, dude, 'cause I just got fed up with
36:31
everything. So negative and just, it's just,
36:33
it's depressing and they're not there's, there's no accuracy to
36:37
it anymore. It's entertainment.
36:39
Yeah, and the news. Is Yeah, yeah.
36:42
What I've learned is that the news.
36:43
Is like pure propaganda for whoever owns it and they're only
36:47
putting their side out there with with an added spin to make
36:51
it spicier for the TV to make you want to pay attention.
36:56
And for me it's just. Click.
36:57
It's clickbait because I again, I don't watch the news.
36:59
Like literally, I will not watch the news.
37:01
I probably, I can't say never, but maybe five times since 2008
37:05
I've watched the news. I mean, that's it.
37:07
And I don't go with never but. The one thing that what would
37:11
you say changed immediately in your life by not watching the
37:16
news? If I wasn't depressed, that's
37:20
the point I was just going to make.
37:22
If you're one of those people. That watches that shit every.
37:24
Day for Christ's sake, shut it off for a week right and see how
37:28
much your life changes how many positive stories do you hear on
37:32
the news in 1/2 hour news cycle maybe want maybe yeah and see
37:36
that's. The whole reason too, why I
37:37
started Good News Arizona in two weeks under cover because
37:40
everything was just so negative, negative, negative.
37:43
So I called the buddy up like, hey, let's go do this.
37:45
And it it that took on its own life because people were tuning
37:50
in for the sheer fact it was just Arizona based and
37:52
everything was good news. It was stuff I would just pull
37:54
off social media and things. It was nothing but a positive
37:57
and it wasn't even a spin. It was just like if if I had ran
38:01
into you back then, Josh, we would have talked on good news
38:03
Arizona about sandbox like this is a great outlets.
38:06
It's a great it's a it's a great resource for veterans and 1st
38:09
responders to come with like minded people.
38:12
And it could, but that's what it was about because the news is so
38:16
bad. And coming from somebody who
38:17
went to school to be a journalist, we one of the one of
38:19
the things I had to do in college was time on newscast
38:22
from start to finish with a stopwatch.
38:25
And every time they had a news story, you press start.
38:27
And when they're done with that news for you, you press stop and
38:30
a 30 minute news show, which now it's like 32 minutes.
38:33
There was 4 minutes or so of actual concrete news.
38:38
Everything else was fluff and and what the hell is the word?
38:43
I don't know. I just my brain lost it.
38:45
But you know, the the fake shit, the fella, the fillers, the
38:50
fillers and the smoke and mirrors and kind of like there's
38:52
two good songs on an. Album and the other 8 suck.
38:54
Yeah, yeah. And it so.
38:56
It was, it was commercials and rhetoric and conversations
38:59
between the anchors, whether you don't count as news because
39:03
you're just reporting, you know, on the weather.
39:05
So it's just you take the weather out.
39:07
Everything else is 4 minutes of actual hardcore news there.
39:10
And here's the other thing real quick.
39:13
Can you ever get a point across in a 3 minute sound bite with
39:18
four people talking over each other?
39:21
Right. We've just, I mean.
39:22
We're limited on time today a little bit, but we still blew up
39:27
your story to the point where you could tell it in a way you
39:31
wanted to. You couldn't do that in 3
39:33
minutes on CNN. If Chris and I were talking in
39:37
addition to you, you would have never got your point across.
39:40
That's the other thing that people don't realize is Josh
39:43
just said it a second ago. You're hearing what they want
39:47
you to hear from their angle to sell their advertising.
39:51
The one thing I can impress that I can't impress upon people
39:54
enough about television is you are literally watching what they
39:59
want you to watch to sell the advertisement they want to sell.
40:03
That's what television is. Yep, it's not.
40:06
About the program, it's about the.
40:08
Advertising for them. You're looking at it from One
40:10
Direction, they're looking at it from another.
40:13
Prime example. I just finished watching.
40:14
The Charlie Sheen thing on Netflix OK was a good final.
40:18
Oh, unbelievable. The final two years he was so
40:22
down the dark path of his addictions doing smoking 7 grams
40:26
of crack at a time like it was crazy.
40:30
They made him the highest paid TV star at 2 million an episode
40:33
for 2 1/2 men for the last two years because they were making
40:36
150, five, $155,000,000 a year in revenue from ads and they
40:43
kept offering him money. He kept saying no.
40:44
Him and his attorney just kept saying no, I'm done, I'm done,
40:47
I'm done. And then they threw 2 million at
40:49
him. He's like I, what do you do with
40:51
that? But they could.
40:53
They could care. Less about his, his struggles
40:56
and his addictions. And they say, and it was out
40:57
there, they were talking to Chuck Lorre on the on the on the
41:00
documentary and he, he's like, you knew something was going on.
41:02
Jon Cryer, you knew something was going on.
41:05
But how do you stop it? Because he's the meal ticket.
41:08
He's the reason that I'm getting paid.
41:10
He's the reason for my livelihood.
41:12
You just all these points, right.
41:14
So all these people around Charlie Sheen see the train
41:17
wreck and John cry even said it. He's like the world wanted the
41:19
train wreck. It was.
41:20
It was the first real explosion of social media.
41:24
And Charlie could do nothing wrong that would deter the world
41:27
from watching him. They liked watching the train
41:29
wrecked. They were like watching the
41:30
chaos. They like, oh, he, he, he put a
41:33
he shot such and such, you know, and she claims it was an
41:36
accident, fell off the dresser and hit her.
41:38
You know, he put his knife to the throat of this chick.
41:41
Same time the Tiger Woods does his shit.
41:44
Charlie seems apologizing for domestic violence.
41:47
Everybody embraces Charlie. Fuck you Tiger.
41:50
You know it was it was crazy. I don't know why because it all.
41:55
Goes back to what I've said 100 times.
41:58
Life is perspective, right? We expect that out of Charlie
42:01
Sheen. We expected more out of Tiger
42:04
from Tiger Wood. This is true.
42:06
It's the hypocrisy of the whole. Deal.
42:08
Yeah, yeah. But it's.
42:09
Insane. It's insane.
42:10
What what they and he takes ownership of everything but it's
42:14
insane that everybody knowing full blown that he was going
42:17
through this total chaotic train wreck.
42:20
They paid him 2 million an episode, $2,000,000 the highest
42:23
paid actor ever per episode. Chris Dunham What?
42:27
You know, I love this conversation, but we got to get
42:29
Josh out of here and I want him to have a chance to plug the
42:32
rest of the stuff. OK?
42:33
Yeah, plug the rest of your stuff, man.
42:35
OK wait before I even do. That I've been like trying to
42:38
keep this in my brain the whole time.
42:39
For your son Chris, there's a program called Skill Bridge
42:43
where I believe it's up to six the last six months of his
42:47
contract. He can end up getting a man.
42:51
What's it? He can end up interning at an
42:54
organization. He can learn how to Weld.
42:56
He can learn all sorts of different things.
42:58
There's a whole bunch of different businesses on there
43:00
now that he could potentially get, quote, UN quote, internship
43:04
where he'll still get paid through the Marine Corps, but he
43:07
gets to go. It's like a bridge into the
43:09
civilian life. He doesn't have to do Marine
43:11
Corps things anymore. He goes and does whatever he's
43:14
learning for those six months. OK, yeah, his thing.
43:16
He's in, right? Now he's trying to be a
43:18
firefighter, so he's found something within the fire,
43:20
within the Marine Corps that will help that transition.
43:24
So that's cool that that might be Skill Bridge.
43:26
But that, that's awesome. Good for him.
43:29
And so we got 90 seconds. Yeah, OK.
43:32
Yeah. Not to interrupt you.
43:33
Yeah, yeah, drop your, drop all your stuff.
43:35
We got 90 seconds left. So tell people how to find you.
43:37
Tell them how to find your podcast, tell them how to find
43:39
your networking stuff, because we want to get that out there.
43:42
OK, Yeah. So you can find me on social
43:45
media by J Mac podcast. That's JMACH podcast, all
43:50
streaming sources the same way my websites J macpodcast.org The
43:55
Sandbox is J Mac Sandbox on Instagram.
43:59
Anywhere you find J Mac Podcast, you're going to find everything
44:02
I do with the sandbox as well. It's out here in surprise, AZ.
44:07
I'm just trying to combat veteran and 1st responders
44:09
suicide, one story, one conversation at a time while
44:12
reminding everybody they're not alone.
44:14
We all have our struggles gentlemen, it's been a pleasure
44:17
being on here. I love it brother.
44:19
Thank. You for coming out, please come
44:20
back. So you're going to like, you're
44:22
going to dig. This.
44:23
You're going to dig this, G Mac, because this is how we end up
44:25
every. This is how we wrap up every
44:26
single show. It doesn't matter who you are.
44:28
It doesn't matter how you're feeling.
44:29
If you're depressed, if you're feeling suicidal, somebody's
44:33
going to miss you, somebody's going to love you.
44:34
Don't leave somebody. Don't leave a hole in somebody's
44:36
heart because you decided not to wake up tomorrow.
44:38
Go run, go journal, go workout, go scream in a pillow, call
44:42
somebody. Anybody will talk to you whether
44:43
you believe it or not, you are loved.
44:46
You will be missed. So don't make that choice.
44:48
If you need help, text 988. It's there 24/7.
44:51
Someone will listen to you if someone will help you.
44:53
And tomorrow is a better day. So it'll be even better day with
44:56
you waking up in it. So until next time, I'm Chris
44:58
Dunham. He's Mike Michaels.
44:59
That's J Mac J Mac podcast. He's doing great things.
45:02
By all means, go check him out, especially first responders,
45:05
veterans, because what he's doing is something that needs to
45:08
be done and appreciate you for doing that, Josh, and learned a
45:11
lot today. I'm thanks again brother.
45:13
Yeah. Pleasure to meet you.
45:14
Absolutely. Absolutely.
45:15
Thank you for your service too, man.
45:17
From my family, military family of yours.
45:19
Hoorah. Absolutely.
45:20
Thanks for your support and Chris.
45:21
I better see you at the sandbox. No excuse all.
45:26
Right, gentlemen, thank you so much.
45:28
We'll talk again. All right, brother.
45:29
Peace. Peace.
45:30
That's it. Don't leave yet.
45:32
We got to make. Sure you upload.
45:45
Your wife long your journey. This is the place where you will
45:54
go. Feel the trail behind your eyes,
46:00
Feel yourself and need yourself. Take a moment, look until you
46:07
see it. Watch your bail and see your
46:13
boss wears your bail. But you fuck will.
46:17
Who is this baby to your city? Now you're turning.
47:39
Come down here. You haven't bounced out.
47:42
It is in your sand. It's fun fighting wait for the
47:48
dead or when it's closer out here.
47:51
But in the wind you ain't no creature.
47:55
We're playing Smound. And you should.
47:58
You put it on the Almighty. Got a dream?
48:04
Who in your life could keep your soul in every man?
48:11
Take the trail behind your eyes. Feel the soul everyone shed now.
48:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:44
The.