Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / A great induction, becoming a mom at 40, polyhydramnios, and a 99th percentile baby
Transcript
- Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. All right. Hello and welcome to the Arrivals Podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson and today I am so excited to have Chinae Alexander here with me. Chinae welcome to the podcast. Chinae: Hello. How are ya? Merelise: I'm doing good. Excited it's Friday. Chinae: Me too. I'm reporting live from Brooklyn, New York. It's a beautiful day Merelise: It looks lovely. Chinae: and we have a full weekend ahead of us, so I'm excited. Merelise: Nice. Do you guys have any fun plans for the weekend? Chinae: Yeah. So we're like, speaking of babies and all of that, we're like doing more adventures with our baby now that she's like almost five months old. And so Merelise: Mm. Chinae: we're like, we're like going for it now. We're going for it. Merelise: Awesome. Chinae: We're taking her out. And at first it was like kind of overwhelming to think about like taking a baby out into the world, especially in New York. But we're Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: like, we're ripping the band-aid off. Like she went to the movies this week. She went to the museum this week. We've we've like been doing stuff, so we're gonna have a full weekend. Merelise: I'm impressed. I that is one thing I regret about my firstborn is I was so overwhelmed and so cautious about taking him out, especially when he was like really little. And they're so much easier to take out and about and just tote everywhere before they're one. But I was just so anxious and neurotic about it that I didn't. And so I'm so glad to hear that you are not making that same mistake. Chinae: We're we're we're easing into it for sure, but like she's having so many firsts Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: in like a short amount of time, which is really, really fun. Like she's at a very fun age right now. Yeah. Merelise: I know. Is she on the move yet or is she in the like glorious potted plant phase? Chinae: She is still potted plant. She is sitting up, which is fun. And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: she is rolling like a champ. Merelise: Nice. Chinae: she did her first roll without any assistance this morning. So that was exciting Merelise: You go girl. Chinae: for us. She's she's it's seeming like she's wanting to skip to crawling because she's Merelise: Hm. Chinae: like doing the motion of like one up, one hand down, one foot up. So I feel like this is not too far away for us, which that Merelise: well in Chinae: gets scary. Merelise: I was gonna say enjoy the non mobile time while you have it. Definitely get out and about with her before all she wants to do is crawl around on like dirty floors and wreak havoc. Chinae: Heard that. And we have a house with like three different floors. So there's Merelise: Okay. Chinae: lots of stairs. So we're gonna have to like get into the baby proofing of it all pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah. Merelise: Yes. Not fun. Not fun. well, I'd love to hear a little bit about your path to motherhood and what that's been like with you. I think for those people who don't know, you became a mom at forty, which is amazing. And actually, I wanted to share with you too, my mom, I I was born when she was forty two. So it's a great club. Yes. Chinae: Really? Yes. Okay. See, my my husband also was born at 40, his mom at 40. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Chinae: and she had twins. So Merelise: wow. Chinae: twins at 40 and her first child, her first children, were twins at 40. And she was on bed rest for like seven months. So Merelise: Yeah. No kidding. Chinae: I was like, if she can do that, I can do it. and also like In New York City, it is so common to have babies later in life. I remember my first OB appointment when I went and I was like, I'm pregnant. I'm so like, or she was like, I was, you know, of course, a little apprehensive about my age. And she was like, honey, in New York City, we see more 40-year-old moms than 25-year-old moms. They're like, we're Merelise: That's awesome. Chinae: used to this more than we are young moms. So Merelise: Wow. Chinae: that really put me at ease, actually, because I was like, If they're used to this, if this is like to them it's not high risk, then I'm good with it. And it was Merelise: Mm-hmm That's amazing. Chinae: it was really nice to have like providers who were making sure I felt comfortable, especially Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: like because you hear about horror stories. Like so much of motherhood is horror stories from other people. And Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: then you get there and you're like, wait, this isn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be. but the whole being an aging mother, it has such a stigma. And for me, I was like. I'm choosing to like listen to the people that know, like doctors, nurses, my OB, my midwives, all of those people rather than the internet. Which I think is generally maybe a good philosophy. Merelise: Yeah, I think that's a good good call. That's good advice, yeah. Chinae: But yeah, I I met my husband when I was 36 or 37. And so we didn't get married until a year ago in. Well, it was a year ago in June. So Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: if you do the math, we got we got pregnant the month after I had my wedding, to the day. Merelise: what's your anniversary? Chinae: So we got married on June 14th. And it's a great time. It's a great time to get married. Merelise: My anniversary is June thirteenth. It is. Yes. Chinae: but then we ended up our baby was born March 14th. So Merelise: Okay, Chinae: it was like Merelise: To the day. Yeah. Chinae: Clockwork. It was clockwork. And she was born a little early, which we'll get into the birth story a little Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: later. But met my husband and he's a little younger than me. And so we were not in like the hugest rush to have a baby. So we dated, and I wanted to really make sure it was the right fit. And I think so many people, when they get to the later end of their 30s, The biological clock is ticking. And what I always try to warn people is don't just have an emergency and look whoever's around you, grab on for dear life and like mate with the first person. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: You will be okay. And it's better to wait a little bit and make sure that the person is your person than rushing into something just because that biological clock is ticking, which it's real. Merelise: I so agree. Yeah. Chinae: It's real. It's so it's you know, that that is a thing. Whenever I turned thirty five I was like Merelise: Mm-hmm. Well, and I always tell people, you know, having a baby does not make relationships easier. You know, it's rewarding and incredible, but like you gotta make sure you're with the right person 'cause it does not get easier once you add a child into the mix. Chinae: and if your issue is logistics, good luck. Good luck. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Godspeed. Chinae: Yeah. And it's it's truly like I think it's the number one way your relationship gets owned is Merelise: Mm. Chinae: doing such a big it's it's it's doing the biggest school project you've ever done together. And you will know if that person is slacking, you will know if that person is a good, a good partner in the project or not really fast. Merelise: Yes. That's so true. It's a great way to put it. Chinae: Yeah. So it's it I would say my project on rolly pulleys in the fourth grade help has like a little less weight than this one. This one is pretty big. Merelise: I don't know, Rully pulleys are pretty awesome, so Chinae: I'm in a fight with them in my garden right now, so I might say otherwise at this moment. But in fourth grade, they were enthralling. Uh-huh. Merelise: I Okay. Yeah, they were everything. So you guys met and you weren't in a rush, but did you know once you got married that you wanted to have a child pretty soon after, or was that kind of an unexpected pleasant surprise? Chinae: so after we got after we met, the one of the first things we talked about on our first date was having kids. Because Merelise: Mm. Chinae: while I wasn't in a rush, I'm like, I'm not wasting my time with anyone that doesn't want a family because that's something I decided I wanted. And Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I would have actually probably had kids If I hadn't have met someone, I would have just tried to do it on my own eventually, Merelise: Mm, mm. Chinae: which I'm I'm glad I didn't have to go down that route because it is hard. But Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: certainly I was like, kids are a priority for me. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: but my husband comes from a big family as well. And so that was really something from the beginning that we both discussed and wanted. obviously. My timeline was a little more sensitive. W women's timeline is always a little more sensitive, which sucks. It sucks. It's so annoying. It's so annoying. Merelise: Mm. Yeah. So annoying. Yeah. I know. Chinae: But but you know, it's part of life. It's part of life. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: You just deal with it. And so for us, my husband wanted 10 kids, which I was like, okay, we're not doing that. Merelise: That's a lot to ask. Chinae: yeah, that's a lot of kids. but I was like, I was an only child. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And so I was like, one or two is fine for me. a psychic actually told me that our next child will actually be twins. So I'm Merelise: Ooh. Chinae: really scared about that because he's been right about everything else. He was right about, Merelise: Fascinating. Chinae: he was right about when we would conceive, when she would be born, and that it was a girl. And he was right Merelise: my god. Chinae: about our wedding, and he was right about like 10 other things. It's crazy. So Merelise: Wow. I mean, I fully believe in all that. I was gonna say, how do you Chinae: I'm actually terrified. crazy. Merelise: how do you feel about it? Because I remember before I had babies, I was like, I want to have twins, I want to have a boy-girl twin, it'd be so awesome, like twins are so cool. I I'm an only child too. I have a half-brother who's much older, but I grew up basically as an only child. And so I was like, you know, I would have loved to have had a twin brother. But then after I had my own child, I was like, my god, I don't know how people have twins. Chinae: No, I know. Well, so my husband's a twin. And Merelise: yeah, that's what you said. Yeah. Chinae: and then, but then I was like doing some research and I was like, okay, looks like twins only come from the mother's side. Like they're genetically from the mother's side. So I'm like, it doesn't matter that my Merelise: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like how you ovulate. Chinae: yes, I'm like, okay, great. It's not like my husband being a twin doesn't matter. So it's probably Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: not. So I was talking to my mom and she was like, Well, you know your your dad's brothers were twins. And I was like, What? What the hell? So I actually very much have twins in my family. I was Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like, I was like, okay. I think probably although this is a question for you. Would you if you were gonna have twins, would Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: you rather have twins first or second? Like, would you rather have a me too? Exactly. Exactly. Merelise: First. Yeah. Ignorance is bliss, I think, in in that s in that case. Yeah. Chinae: And you don't have a little running around. It's Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I I was like, man, the order couldn't be worse. Merelise: I know. Well, when you find out you're pregnant with twins, 'cause it sounds like you will, Chinae: have to come back on. Merelise: and and I have a good friend who's actually done an episode who had a single first and then she had twins. So you can listen to that and know that you'll make it, you'll survive. Chinae: I mean, I know that we've been doing this for centuries, for thousands, actually thousands and thousands of years, but still I see people with like that many kids, and I'm like, How are you okay? How are you okay? Merelise: I know. It's crazy. Chinae: And it's really nuts. So I had a friend who had it was him and his brother, and then his mom was like begging her husband, like, let's just try for a girl. The classic let's try for a girl. They try for a girl natural quadruplets. Merelise: Was there at least a girl in there? my god. Chinae: One only one Merelise: That's brutal. That is brutal. my god. Chinae: That suck. yeah. So I so and he and he was telling me, he was like, and then we never went in the same car again, ever as a family. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. I mean how do you like logistically, like you said, how do you do that? That's crazy. I guess you have to get like a school bus. Yeah, or you don't leave. Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: I think you stay home. I think you stay home. Yeah. I think you stay home for the rest of your life until they're walking. and that and don't need to be on leashes. But yeah, Merelise: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. my god, that's crazy. Chinae: we we kind of had already discussed that we wanted multiple children. I loved being an only child when I was little, Merelise: Mm. Chinae: but now I see, you know, as our parents get older and You see the bond that people and their siblings have. And so for me I was Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like, all right. I was like, I guess I can do at least two, but now it looks like maybe three. I don't know. Merelise: At least you'll knock him out in two pregnancies. Chinae: I told my pregnant I told my husband I get you get one more pregnancy 'cause Merelise: Yeah, there you go. Chinae: my first one sucked so bad. Merelise: was it tough? Chinae: Was yours were yours amazing? Like, did you love being were you one of the people that Merelise: No, no. Chinae: loves being pregnant? Merelise: I wasn't. I really wanted to be. I was like, I'm gonna love like being pr I'd always I was so excited to be a mom. I was so fascinated by pregnancy and I was like, I can't wait and then I I did not enjoy it. And I had to like come Chinae: No. Merelise: to terms with it. I was bummed. I was like this it's not fun. I don't enjoy it. Chinae: No, I mean, I have a few friends that have had those pregnancies where they're Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I am a glowing goddess. I am Merelise: Right. Chinae: part of the world. I'm part of I'm made of earth. And Merelise: Mm. Chinae: I am doing this magical work. And I was like, I'm miserable. I feel the worst I've ever felt in my life. I was huge. It was, it was the whole thing, every trimester came with its own curse. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like my first trimester was obviously like exhaustion, nausea, just like wanting to eat only garbage. Second Merelise: Mm. Chinae: trimester was my sciatica period. So I just Merelise: same. Chinae: had the worst sciatica crawling on the floor at one point because I couldn't walk. And then third trimester was I gave birth to like well, I didn't give birth to her. I my stomach was like the world's largest belly. It was Constantly every day people asking me if I was having twins. Merelise: Mm w I don't understand why people think that's okay. Like come on. Chinae: I don't know. Yeah. I'm just like, let's not comment on anyone's Merelise: Right. Chinae: body, stomach. Let's just not. Yeah, I'm Merelise: Face. Yeah. Pregnant or otherwise. Chinae: exactly. And you've you've been in this situation probably where you've seen someone like guess if someone's pregnant. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And you're just like, don't do it. They're not pregnant. Don't do it. Don't do it. And then they say it, and you're just like, Merelise: Yep. Yeah. Chinae: Okay, deal with the aftermath of that. Merelise: Exactly. So it was a tough pregnancy. Chinae: Really tough. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: the only part I liked about being pregnant was You know, when your belly is like so round and like cute, I was like, this is like kind of cute. Merelise: yeah. I d I liked how I looked for part of it, but yes. Chinae: Yeah, but I mean I was like, I was like, I am huge and it's uncomfortable to walk, but I was like, this is cute that I have this little I thought it was fun. And Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like the the looking part of it, I actually didn't mind. It was just the feeling part of it. That was so hard. And Merelise: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Chinae: my daughter was born she when she was in my womb. Basically, my womb carried way too much fluid. So Merelise: Mm. Chinae: it was I was I had like what they call polyhydramniose. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And so it was a lot of extra fluid. And she was 99th percentile baby throughout the entire time. Merelise: Wow. Chinae: Which I learned they pretty much after ninety nine they there's no like hundred and ten, there's they just stop. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: So they just stopped counting at that point. And Merelise: my car. Chinae: so she was always several weeks ahead, growth wise. And so Merelise: Uh-huh. Yeah. Chinae: I was just I look like a Thanksgiving float, floating around my Merelise: Mais Chinae: neighborhood, just like it looked unreal. Merelise: The things we do for our children. so how Chinae: Seriously. Merelise: how early in your pregnancy did they diagnose you with like the extra fluid condition? Chinae: it was in my third trimester. So whenever they started doing growth scans and things like that. and you know, for a while they just had me watch it. What's funny Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: is when I did my gestational diabetes test, which for anyone listening that's pregnant, it's not as bad as you think it's gonna be. Merelise: I agree. I agree. Chinae: Like what what is wrong with people on the internet? Merelise: I know again. I know, I agree. Like I was so nervous about it and then I was like, I mean, I wouldn't do it like for fun, but it wasn't bad. Yeah. Chinae: No. No, I I mean the the thing is people go the drink is gonna make you throw up. I'm like, guys, it just tastes like if you live through the nineties and you had like a capri son, you're Merelise: Yes. Chinae: fine. Merelise: Or those little do you remember like the little squirt bottles? It was like a clear bottle. Yes. Yeah, what what were those? Yeah. Chinae: One hundred percent. And they were like made of like like fully microplastics. It was just like microplastic juice. Merelise: Uhhuh, uhhuh. With like neon juice inside of it, yeah. Chinae: yeah. If you if you had that, you're fine. You're Merelise: Agreed. Chinae: fine. It just tastes like flat sprite or flat orange juice, orange soda. Merelise: Y Yeah, agreed. Chinae: so whenever I I technically passed my gestational diabetes exams. But they kept testing me because they were like, surely there's no way that you passed. Like, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: so they kept testing. I didn't do it three times. Which yeah, Merelise: Okay, that that is kinda cruel and unusual punishment. Chinae: I was like, I was like, and mostly just because of the time, I was like, okay, I Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: can't eat, I can't drink water. I'm sitting here for four three hours or whatever it is. but when they were doing that testing They were like, something is making you have extra fluid. And typically Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: it's linked to gestational diabetes, which they could not clinically find out why. So basically, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: by the end of pregnancy, third trimester, I was on a gestational diabetes diet. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: I was prick pricking myself after every meal, testing my blood sugar. And I just had all the sexual fluid. I was huge. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: so they don't they still don't really know why. And it was Merelise: What causes it? Chinae: it was funny. Well, it's usually gestational diabetes, but I technically didn't have it. They were just treating Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: me as if I did. which I have a new real empathy for people that get diagnosed with gestational diabetes early in their pregnancy. Did you ever Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: have it? Merelise: I didn't but I had a really close friend who had it with two pregnancies. Chinae: I mean, when you're when all you want to do is like eat a croissant. Merelise: I know. Chinae: It's it's real bad. Merelise: And that's like supposed to be half the fun of being pregnant, right? It's like you can eat whatever you want and it's like, Nope. Chinae: Also you're like, I have no joy. I have no joys right now. Like you're Merelise: Yeah. It's so true. Chinae: you I was like, I can barely walk. I can't go work out because I was huge. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I felt like a turtle. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And I was like, and I can't have a croissant. That's not fair. No, yeah, no, no glass of wine, no margarita, nothing. Merelise: And you can't drink, it's like, my god, I know. It's brutal. Yeah. Chinae: Just eating like cauliflower rice. I'm like, how depressing. Merelise: Pets. Chinae: How depressing. I ended up eating so many just like protein shakes and stuff like that because I was like, I can't even the joy of food is gone for me. Can't do it. Yeah. Merelise: Yeah. That's miserable. W is there any inherent risk to the baby like with having extra fluid, assuming that you don't have gestational diabetes, like is there any risk with the extra fluid or is it just something they monitor? Like what's the what's the deal? Chinae: Yeah, so what can happen and why they monitor it so closely is it potentially you can go into labor like sooner, but that's not really Merelise: Mm. Chinae: the issue. It's more that the scariest thing that can happen is you go into labor, your water breaks, but there's so much fluid that the umbilical cord can fall out. Merelise: Yes. Chinae: And so you have basically like an exposed cord. And then the baby's Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: pressure because there's less fluid, the baby's head, hopefully, will lay on the cord and cut Merelise: Mm. Chinae: off circulation of the cord. So basically, Merelise: Mm. Chinae: I was on high alert because I was like, okay, if I if I go into labor and for some reason the cord is out, like if my water breaks, I have to get on all fours and like take a damp rag. like a clean damp rag and put it over Merelise: Yeah. Like push it back in. Chinae: yeah basically put it over keep it moist but then also get on all fours so the baby doesn't isn't putting pressure on the cord and then like Merelise: Mm. Mm-hmm. Chinae: that's an emergency call that's a nine one one call not a trip to the OB so Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: so by the end I was just like this is a scary thought for sure. We, you know, there's there's more risks associated with it. also the baby can go breach really easily because Merelise: Mm. Chinae: if you have a normal size baby, they're like Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: think about like a baby that has like so much fluid, they're just like floating around in there. So it's really easy for them. Merelise: Right. Yeah. I'm picturing like a swimming pool and it's like you've got a big swimming pool you can yeah. Chinae: Exactly. So they're just like they can flip around. I had the distinct pleasure of having a huge baby. So she was locked and loaded in one place. It's it's really interesting. So I was doing acupuncture throughout my pregnancy, which for anyone that's listening that's pregnant, I highly recommend. I think Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: it made such a difference. And it also made a big difference in me getting pregnant. yeah, Merelise: good to know. What did it what did it help with in pregnancy for you? Chinae: so I mean back pain, muscle release, stress, sleep, nausea, Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: like there's pressure points and and acupuncture points for all of those things. So it really Merelise: Mm. Chinae: helped. Like I would feel my sciatica was a hundred percent better after getting Merelise: that's great. Chinae: treatments. Like it would really get relieved. But what was so crazy is I went into my acupuncturist and I was telling her, I was like, This baby is breach right now. She needs to flip around. If she doesn't flip around in the next week, they're gonna have to go in and manually flip her or try. And I was like, I really I've heard that's very uncomfortable. So I was like, Is there anything you can do? She's like, Yeah, actually there is something I can try. And so she gave me this stick and it's like a stick of charcoal. And it's called Moxa. Do you know about Moxa at all? Merelise: is this where you like burn it by your feet? Okay, yes. Chinae: Yes. So she was basically like you just heat the end of it, you set the end on fire, let it turn into like a like a glowing ash. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: Then you put it on the outside of your pinky toe, like an inch away or half an inch away from your pinky toe. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And she was like, do that for a week continuously. Do it for like a couple minutes at a time, like seven minutes at a time on each toe. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And the baby will that's like known to make the baby flip. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: So I get home. I'm like, this is so stupid. I was Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like, I can't believe I'm doing like, what does my pinky toe have to do with this baby? So Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I light the moxa. I'm at home that night after acupuncture and I'm doing it to my toes. I'm like, well, that was so stupid. I go home. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: I'm like literally sitting here with like a little stick next to my toe is stupid. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I go to bed, wake up in the middle of the night, one of 25 times to pee, get up. And sh her head was always really in a specific place. I always knew Merelise: Mm. Chinae: where her head was. I was like, got up to go to the bathroom, like she flipped. After one night of doing it, Merelise: See ya. Chinae: she flipped. She had had she had been in the same position my entire pregnancy. And like I Merelise: That's wild. How many weeks pregnant were you at that point? Chinae: think I was like 34. Merelise: Okay, yeah, so like very close to the end. Chinae: Yes. And she was huge. So it wasn't easy her for her to like flip at that point. Like I Merelise: Right. Right. Chinae: felt her kicking me like in like my groin and her head was in my ribs. And that Merelise: That's crazy. Chinae: night went to the bathroom and I was like, wait a minute. And I felt her head pressing on my bladder. And she had totally flipped from just that one time. So it sounds insane. And you don't even need to go to an acupuncturist to do it. They Moxa on like Amazon. Merelise: Yeah. That's so cool. Chinae: Like, look it up Moxa on the pinky toe for breach babies. If you're listening and you have a breach baby, try it out. What's the worst that can happen? Merelise: That's what I always say. It's like, I mean, that is the lowest intervention you could possibly try. That's amazing that it worked. I've heard of that, but I've never talked to anyone that has done it and th has had it work. That's amazing. Chinae: Totally, totally. And I really think so secondarily when we were trying to get pregnant, we tried for three months and then we took a two-month break because of our wedding and my bachelorette party. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: but for the three months before when we were trying, my acupuncturist was like, take these Chinese herbs to help. And these herbs actually like rejuvenate sperm in three months. Like the sperm turnover time is three months. So basically the new batch of sperm will be like you know, energized by these herbs. And I was taking, Merelise: Fresh. Chinae: I was taking Chinese herbs as well. And sure enough, three months after we started taking the herbs, we got pregnant. Yeah. I mean, look, these are all Merelise: Very cool. Very cool. Chinae: like, you know, this is all it might be coincidence, but I'm like, well, I would do it again. Merelise: Yeah, for sure. It didn't hurt anything. Chinae: No, no. I mean, it's it's you know, it's going to acupuncture once a week takes time and stuff like that, but but to me it was totally worth it. Merelise: Well, and it's like self care too. You know, it's like you just get a moment Chinae: Yeah, yeah. Merelise: to yourself to like relax and yeah, I I b I agree. Yeah. Chinae: And it was one of the best naps of the week, especially when I couldn't sleep at night. Like having someone put me to sleep basically with needles, I was like, I'll take it. Even if it's an Merelise: Uh-huh. Yeah. Chinae: hour, I'll take it. Merelise: Yeah, I love that. So once she flipped, 'cause I assume like my question is gonna be, what was kind of your what were you thinking in terms of a birth plan? I don't know if you had a birth plan or if you had preferences or you were just kinda like gonna wing it. But once she flipped and you felt pretty confident she was not gonna be breech what were you thinking? Like did you have anything in mind? Any anything you for sure had wanted to do or didn't want to do? Chinae: So I had a midwife give me really good advice at Merelise: Mm. Chinae: my midwifery practice. My midwifery practice, it was called Ula, and it's half midwives, half OBs. So they work together. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: So it's kind of the best of both worlds of like Eastern Western medicine. Yeah, it's great. I loved it. Merelise: Yeah, that's how mine was. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chinae: but the thing that this midwife told me is. Don't think of your birth plan as a plan. Think of it Merelise: Mm. Chinae: as like it it is it there th this is options. You Merelise: Yes. Chinae: know, like here's what we'd like to have happen. Hold that loosely. Merelise: Right. It's like a flow chart, like, you know, yeah. Chinae: It is. It is. It's it's gotta keep it open because she's like, the only thing you're gonna do is you're gonna disappoint yourself. And that's like and and it'll make birth harder because you're so wanting it to go one way. and so for me, I was like I mean, obviously number one is healthy baby and healthy Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: me. Secondly, they basically were telling me. She's too large to go to full term. And Merelise: Mm. Chinae: the polyhydromniose is dangerous to go to full term. So Merelise: Mm. Chinae: they were like, You're either doing an induction or a planned C section. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And so for me. I I was okay with a C-section. I was okay with labor, like an induced labor. The thing I didn't want to have happen was induced labor, labor for 40 hours, then have a C-section. Merelise: Yeah, that's a valid preference. Chinae: Yeah. So I I basically, you know, I told my team of doctors like, this is the one outcome I don't want is this Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: outcome. What do you think in your professional opinion? Like, should I schedule a C section? Should I try to go through with the induction? And what we came to was that we would try to do the induction. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And I basically told my team, my clinical team, I said, the second you think this isn't progressing fast enough. We're not trying for hours longer. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: We're gonna move on because I don't wanna be recovering from two things. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And so, and also due to her size, they were a little afraid of like shoulder dystocia, her getting stuck, and Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: having to intervene in that way. And so that's why they wanted to have her come early as well. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And I was like, get this baby the hell out of me. I was like, Merelise: Yeah, you were like Yeah. You're like no c no arguments there. Chinae: No, I was done. Like 30 the 36 after 36 weeks hit and it was like safe time, I was like, all right, I'm ready to go. And so we've Merelise: I felt the same way, yeah. Chinae: yeah, I mean, just I was also just like, I I don't want to be pregnant anymore. I want to eat a croissant. I want this all to be over. And Merelise: I know. I know. Yep. Chinae: so we we actually went on our hospital tour on like a Monday or Tuesday. And we're walking through the hospital tour and one of the L and D nurses goes, You having your baby this weekend? And I said, no, I'm not due for another like four weeks, basically three weeks. And she was like, We'll see you this weekend. And it's crazy. And then the other LD nurse goes, She asked me if she I was having twins. And it was the only person I wasn't of offended by, because I'm Merelise: Uh-huh. Chinae: like, it made me almost feel validated. I was like, hi. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I'm not being dramatic about how huge I am. Even this nurse who sees babies all day long thinks that this is abnormal. And so, sure enough, that Friday, I had, you know, that week I went in for another growth scan. They were like, all right, it's time to get this baby out. And Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: so we checked in on a Friday morning. My Virgo self loved it because I was like, I get to pack my bags. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: I get to prepare all my electronics or charge. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like Merelise: Love it. Chinae: the the sign, the little birth sign from Etsy came in time. Like it was like you know, everything kind of came together, but it was definitely like, okay, we're we're we have an appointment at the hospital at ten AM on Friday. Merelise: Yeah. So okay, so how many weeks were you at that point? Thirty six or thirty seven? Chinae: It was my thirty sixth week. So leading I was almost Merelise: Thirty sixth week. Okay. Chinae: yeah, it was almost leading up to thirty seven. Yeah. Merelise: And did they talk you through what they were going to like use you? Chinae: Yes. So and again, I done too much internet research, which like it's impossible to tell people not to do that because everybody does it. But basically I knew there was like a Foley balloon situation Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: probably gonna have happened and then Pitocin and then I knew the Foley balloon people had said is horrible. Pitocin not people's favorite thing Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: because forced contractions. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: But it was kind of amazing because when we checked in and we got settled in our room, it was probably around one. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And the midwife was like, I'm gonna do a preliminary cervical check. She's like, there is no way you're dilated. I'm sure your cervix is going to be hard as a rock because Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: you're, you know, you have you have Merelise: Only thirty years to we say. Mm-hmm. Chinae: You you yeah, you have weeks to go. She's first of all, also cervical checks. Nobody said those were gonna be terrible. Those were actually, I feel like pretty terrible. Merelise: It's probably because you were earlier, 'cause I, I've heard mixed reviews. Everyone I've ever had has not been bad, but I've only had them starting at like thirty nine weeks plus. And my cervix like a little dilated at the time. So I feel like it's because your cervix probably wasn't squishy and like ready, that it was probably worse. It also depends on the practitioner. Yeah. Chinae: I mean, this totally. So she she basically was like up there. Like, and Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: and my husband, he said it looked like she was elbows deep. It was like, it was crazy. I was like, I mean, neither one of us have ever witnessed a cervical check like that before. You know, I'm used to like a speculum, but not like, you know, the whole arm is up there. So Merelise: Yeah, right. Right. The arm, I know. I know, it's wild. Chinae: she was up there feeling around and she was like, wow, okay, actually your cervix is a lot. Softer than I thought Merelise: Okay. Chinae: it would be. And you're actually like a centimeter dilated already. Merelise: it's great. Chinae: And so she took her finger and she like loosened it. And I was like, that's not fun. Don't love that. Don't love that feeling. Merelise: The little stretch and sweep. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Chinae: but she was really surprised. And so she was kind of like, let's put in a volley balloon and see what happens. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: She did warn me that. Most inductions take between 24 and 48 hours until birth. So she Merelise: Mm. Chinae: kind of would like buckle up. Cause we were kind of hoping we were like, Are we gonna have a baby tonight? And she was like, Don't don't get your hopes up for a baby tonight. Yeah. Merelise: Don't get your hopes up. Yeah. Chinae: So so I love to manage expectations. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And so we did the fully balloon, which was really uncomfortable that it was it was fine. I mean it was uncomfortable for sure, but Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: you know, I wouldn't choose it for like a Saturday afternoon. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the worst thing. And then Merelise: How long did you leave it in for? Chinae: I think I think it was probably two hours, somewhere around there. And Merelise: Okay, it's not terrible. Chinae: then it kind of like fell out on its own or it's like was falling Merelise: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Chinae: out on its own. man, when you see that thing out of your body, you're like, what? Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: So many parts of this, you're just like, what is happening? And what is everything? Like everything Merelise: I know. Chinae: is insane. so yeah, it it c then she did another check and she's like, whoa, okay, you're like dilating quite quickly. That like worked really well. And your body is like starting to contract and whatever. So that was great. And then we started on Pitocin shortly thereafter. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And the pitocin really ramped things up. and she came back and checked and she was like, You're dilating really nicely. And I was like, let's talk about epidural at this point. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Chinae: Not because it was super painful, but I was like, you know, I want to talk about it when I'm present. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Yeah. Before it's like really Merelise: Was it something Chinae: bad. Merelise: was it something you knew you wanted, like you've been planning on having an epidural? Yeah. Chinae: yeah. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: yeah. Look, I'll like be one with nature. I'll do acupuncture, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: but I also want all the drugs. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: So, so I was like, let's talk epidural before we get to the point where I need one. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And I was asking her, because I had heard a lot of people wait to get their epidural as long as possible. And so I'd asked her, I asked her, I was like, is there any like what is the medical reasoning behind that? Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: I was like, Do you labor slower if you get that bidural? Like, she was like, No. She's like, some people just want to feel what it feels like more. And I'm Merelise: Interesting. Chinae: like, I don't. I was like, can we do it now? Merelise: Yeah. You're like, I'm not one of those people. Chinae: No. I was like, can we do it now? She was like, sure. And she was like, let me do another cervical check. I was like, hey, how about we do it after the surviv, before the cervical check? Because I don't like those. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: So so they, so the anesthesiologist rolls in. I'm facing, I'm sitting up facing my husband. The anesthesiologist behind. I my husband almost passes out because he sees the needle and it's, you Merelise: Mm. Chinae: know, huge. And they kind of explain to me, you know, what they're gonna do. And I'm like, you really shouldn't tell people about this. I'm like, you should just do it. I don't wanna know. I Merelise: Right. He just Yeah. Chinae: don't wanna know what you're gonna do. Basically, it sounds like he's taking a long bendy needle and like sight unseen, kind of pushing it up there. And I was like, I don't want to know about this. Merelise: yeah. Chinae: So we do the epidural. And then I am straight chilling. I love the epidural. I love Merelise: Hmm. Yeah. Chinae: that thing. I relax. I'm having a blast. I'm I'm having some sleep. At this point, it's like midnight. I'm like. Only been in this room for 12 hours. I could have two days in here. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: So then the the nurse had said she's coming back in at in four hours to check my dilation. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And so it's about I don't know, 3:30. I'm trying to get some sleep. My husband's trying to get some sleep. I'm feel great. Merelise: Yeah. Could you feel any like pressure or were you totally like numb? Chinae: No, it wasn't numb. I could feel pressure, but it was like I felt good. Like I felt and I was actually like it was nice because I had had such back bad back pain and stuff before that Merelise: yeah. Chinae: from pregnancy. I was like, this is actually kind of nice. I was like, I would actually love to not feel anything. And you know, they gave me the button to Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: like do a more epidural. More epidural juice. And so for a while I'm like, I'm like, I'm not gonna hit it because I don't want to use it too much. And so you're not allowed to get more epidural juice, like an out like, I guess, like 30 minutes to an hour before you're gonna push, or like before you're Merelise: Okay. Chinae: gonna push, they don't want you to be doing more epidural because they want you to feel it. So Merelise: yeah. Chinae: you actually can like engage those muscles. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: But I thought I had plenty of time. And so while I was Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: kind of like, I'm gonna wait on doing more epidural, like the top up. So the the nurse comes in, she's like, Yeah, I'm here for your cervical check. She goes, She her face shocked. It's all hands on deck. The midwife, the midwife comes in, the midwife's like, we need everybody. They're calling everyone on the L and D floor. She's like, it's time to push. I'm like, what? I'm like, wait a minute. Merelise: Do you remember how dilated you were before you got the epidural? Chinae: I think I was like six. Like and Merelise: Okay, so yeah, this was a big jump. Chinae: I and it was a big jump and like it had only been like four hours. So Merelise: Wow. Chinae: th they were kind of like, like she said, I'll come see you in four hours. Like there was no way Merelise: Right. Chinae: that was gonna be the time. So I was just like Like chilling on my epidural, not really thinking anything. My husband's sleeping. I'm taking Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: naps. And then they're like calling everyone on the floor. And five minutes before that, we had heard a woman in the next room screaming. So the woman next door to us just had her baby. Like we heard her final push and the baby's popping out. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Then all the nurses rush in from her room, and all the doctors rush in from her room to do mine. And I was like, wait, wait, no, I didn't get to do more epidural. I'm like, no, Merelise: No. Chinae: I had been waiting for the I thought we were. And it was just like, okay, no, no more epidural. I got it taken away from me because they were like, you can't do it now because it's time to push. I'm like, no. So Merelise: Dang. Chinae: you know, I'm I'm I was like, I was like, man. And then, you know, you don't get it for the rest of the time. Merelise: I know, that's it. You're cut off. Chinae: You get banned. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: So I was like, okay, let's let's push. And we push, I pushed for 20 minutes. My husband held a leg, nurse held Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: another leg. And then my wit midwife's down there catching it. The doctor's there. And I think I pushed about 10 times. She was out in 20 minutes. Merelise: That's amazing. Especially for a Chinae: Yeah. Merelise: first time baby. That's awesome. Chinae: I know, I know. So it was like, you know, the midwife was like, think about the worst poop you've ever taken. And mine happened to be when I was in Austin Airport. So Merelise: Ha ha. Chinae: I was literally like, Austin Airport, Austin Airport. I'm like thinking Austin Airport as I'm Merelise: That's hilarious. Chinae: as I'm pushing this baby out. And I mean, it Merelise: Sounds like it was effective. Chinae: was effective. I was like, I was and then literally afterwards, I was like, that was nowhere near as bad as Austin Airport. I didn't have an epidural Merelise: Ha ha Chinae: for Austin Airport. And so and I had also requested to see the mirror. Merelise: Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah. Chinae: Down there. So I'm watching her head come out. My husband's watching. Merelise: So cool. Chinae: I definitely was not the not the the mother who was like, I don't want my husband to see. I'm like, you better see everything. I'm like, Merelise: Yeah. Right. Chinae: you see what this is. Cause I want you to understand what the human body and what women are capable of. Merelise: Yes, I love it. Chinae: and she was eight and a half pounds. Merelise: Okay. Chinae: Like almost four weeks early, which Merelise: wow, yeah. So she was that's right, yeah. Chinae: yeah. Eight eight pounds, like six ounces at thirty-sixish, thirty-seven weeks. So she was big. way more. They were Merelise: my gosh. Yeah. So she would have been easy easily a ten pounder, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: like at this rate, the rate as which she was going, she could have been twelve to fourteen pounds. Like they were like, It's not possible. Like it doesn't come out Merelise: my god Holy shit. Were y Chinae: at that point. Merelise: were you or your husband big babies? Chinae: So no, I was a completely normal size baby. My husband was a big baby for a twin. So for Merelise: Yeah. Well the twin for twin, yeah. Chinae: usually twins are pretty small. He was a seven pound twin. Merelise: Yeah. that's Big Twin. Chinae: So it's a big twin. His sister was Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: much smaller, but I was like, I think that's probably what it was. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And I mean, no one prepares you for like You you can hear every birth story in the world, but like that feeling of hearing your baby cry and Merelise: Mm. Chinae: like your baby coming out, it's also so weird that you've never seen them. Merelise: yeah. Chinae: Sounds because you're just like you know, people always say, like, I don't want to know the gender because I want to be surprised. And I'm like, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: the whole thing is a huge surprise. I want to know the the sex of my baby because the whole thing is a surprise. Like, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I it's a surprise of what they look like. It's a surprise how the whole thing happens. Like, Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: there's so much surprise that for me knowing the sex was just like, I'm like, I don't need that much surprise. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Chinae: And immediately, of course, she came out and she peed all over my husband. Merelise: really? Chinae: Which I love that. I loved Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: it. I was like, yes, you show that man who's boss of this family now. Merelise: That's right. Chinae: And it was it was such a miraculous thing and Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: You know, my husband was asking me afterwards, like on a scale of one to ten, what was the pain? Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And I honestly think it was a three for me. Merelise: That's great. Chinae: But it's because I got that early epidural. So like Merelise: Mm. Chinae: if you're if anyone's listening in like if you're gonna get an epidural and you know that, like all power to you if you wanna do like a natural birth and like it couldn't be me. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: but if you are getting an epidural, I'm like, don't don't be shame don't be ashamed. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like I was like, well, I don't need to suffer. I don't need to suffer. Merelise: No, no. Chinae: I I this is gonna be hard enough. There's gonna be so many things about parenting that are hard. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like your birth doesn't have to be one of them. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. And did you have any tears? Chinae: I did I had a like a do they call it like level two? What do they call it? Second degree, there we go, level two. Merelise: But for a second degree. Yeah. Level two. Chinae: Second degree tear. but honestly, like it wasn't so bad. The Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: the one thing that really does surprise me about postpartum was the the amount of time you're bleeding. I you know, Merelise: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Chinae: like bleeding for six weeks is afterwards is That's a long time. and it really is. Merelise: Yeah. It's really inconvenient too, 'cause like you're starting to feel better, but like you still have to wear a big old pad, like, yeah. Chinae: yeah. I'm like, okay, so the majority of my house is in diapers. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: and honestly, like the postpartum for me, the recovery wasn't so bad. It was more the the feeling of your insides feeling like Bowl of soup was not my favorite thing, Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: but I was so relieved not to be pregnant anymore. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I was so happy to not be pregnant that I was like postpartum for me was actually it felt like a vacation for my body because I wasn't Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: carrying all that weight. I instantly my back pain ended. Instantly I felt better. I could sleep. You know, I know there's a there's there's Merelise: Isn't it crazy how that happens? Like it's Chinae: a huge debate for people like is newborn sleep worse or is or is pregnancy sleep worse? And for me, pregnancy sleep was so much worse. Merelise: Yeah. I had a guest who had a similar experience. She was like, I would take everything you just said. She's like, I take the no sleep for the newborn period. I'd take like the diapers, whatever, anything over being pregnant 'cause she's she had such a bad pregnancy. And it's crazy though, like once you give birth, like all the symptoms are gone though. Like all the physical symptoms. It's it's wild. Chinae: It's it's insane. Like Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: the human body, the fact that the next minute you're just it's just over. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like what? What in the world? Like, like my like my blood sugar went back to normal immediately. Like everything just switched over. It was so strange. Merelise: So weird. Chinae: but yeah, it was the recovery definitely. We have a lot of stairs in our house. And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: so kind of like going up and down stairs, I was like more careful, but it would have been way worse with the C-section. So I was really Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: thankful to like have had such a minor tear. The bad thing was my daughter was born with jaundice. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: And so We had to go to the doctor and we left the hospital at twenty-four hours and we had to be at the doctor's office the next morning with her at eight AM and every day that week at Merelise: Mm. Chinae: eight AM. So you know, most people like can be cozy and nest and like wait to take their baby out into the world Merelise: Right. Chinae: for like a couple weeks. We were the next day. In a doctor's office and every day after that, and then ended up having to the emergency room with her the first week for Jaundice as well. It's fine. They Merelise: No. Chinae: put her under basically like a baby tanning bed and they give you little glasses. And it's Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: you know, it's fine. It was just not Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: the the it wasn't the most ideal way to spend her first week together. Merelise: Yeah. It's interesting. Someone told me recently that they they had a a baby who had jaundice as well. And they wanted them to stay in the hospital and then they wanted them to leave her and the Nikki, like just for jaundice. And they actually convinced the hospital to let them like rent one of the baby tanning beds and take it home with them. So know that that's an option if the twins have jaundice. So then you don't have to leave the house. I know. Yeah, apparently. Chinae: Gosh. Wow. my God. You get a baby tanning bed rental? I was putting I was putting her in the sun like a rotisserie chicken every day. Literally, like, Merelise: That that probably helps you. Chinae: like the doctor was like, put her bassinet when she's sleeping next to a window. But it felt like I was cooking my baby. Merelise: Yeah. I know. Chinae: Because you're like, everything you've been told is don't put babies in the sun. And Merelise: Right, right. Chinae: then your doctor's like, Put this baby in the sun, and you're like, what? But Merelise: Yeah. At least it was March, at least it wasn't like the dead of summer. Chinae: no, no, no. I think now we probably would have gotten different advice. But Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: she it was like a week, and that was a little bit of a challenge because we had to be measuring out her food. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: So I because we had to measure everything out because of the jaundice, because they pee it out essentially, Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Chinae: had to pump instead of nursing. Merelise: Mm. Chinae: So we never got into like the rhythm of latching or any of that Merelise: Mm. Chinae: because I was just like a pump factory. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Which, you know, I wasn't, I didn't have a ton of attachment to like how I would feed. I wasn't, you know, gonna beat myself up if I didn't fully breastfeed or If I was nursing or not, I just Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: was kind of like, I just whatever we need to do to be healthy and happy. Merelise: Yes, fat is best. Chinae: Yes, yes, absolutely. And now I gave up I gave Merelise: And exclusive pumping is miserable. Chinae: up pumping and I'm like, I'm like, I think the baby loves formula. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I'm like, honestly, she loves formula and now she's already trying solid food. So it's like that that stress of like breastfeeding nursing is like so far in the past now. And if anyone's Merelise: Good. Chinae: in it that's listening, that's like in the mental like space of being so stressed about feeding. Trust me, few months will go by. And now I'm just like, the pacifier fell on the floor. Like I'll dust it off. Like and they're fine. They're Merelise: Yeah. I know. Yes. Chinae: really fine. Merelise: The nursing thing is so hard when you're in the thick of it or pumping or whatever it is you're doing. Like it feels so big and like again, there's so much talk on the internet when it comes to like that sort of thing. And it's so intense. And like similarly, l like with my first when I was like nervous to like, you know, take him out and about, I always I also felt like, you know, I had to do things a certain way and then Eventually we ended up introducing formula and I breastfed and so we just did a combo for most of his first year and that was so great. And I'm like, why did I, you know, beat myself up about that? And so with the second one, we started that like as soon as I started to feel stressed. I was like, Bring in, we're gonna do the combo, like we'll figure it out, you know. Yeah. Chinae: Yep. Yep. And like the thing is like there are so many things we as women, but also as moms, get shamed about and feel guilty about. It's like nobody is when have you met someone and you're like, hey, are you were you formula fed as Merelise: Right. Chinae: a baby? Like you look kind of formula fed. Like, no. Like Merelise: Ha ha ha Chinae: it's awesome if you can breastfeed, if you can nurse, like is so amazing and the body Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: is a miracle and like wonderful but Merelise: Yes. Chinae: if you can't or simply don't want to like you're allowed to just not want to do it Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: and and like combo feed we combo fed for the longest time and Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: then I was like hey she's sleeping through the night I'm having to wake up to pump I don't want to do that so I stopped Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Chinae: cabbage in the bra Iced cold cabbage in the bra Merelise: Yeah, I had to do that. Chinae: really helped. Sunflower lethasin. And, Merelise: Mm. Chinae: you know, within two weeks, I weaned off of breastfeeding and was just Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: formula feeding. And like, you know, my friends who are moms and nursed until they were their kids were one or two. I think that's incredible. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: But like, know, if it's sacrificing your sanity, it's not worth it. Merelise: It's not. It's not. And we put so much pressure on ourselves and ultimately whatever you choose to do is enough. Like it it'll Chinae: Yeah. Merelise: be okay. Chinae: Also, like I promise you, there are so many ways to bond with your child. So many. Merelise: Yes. my gosh, absolutely. I mean in hindsight, you know, I f I think I put so much pressure on my on myself, with especially with my first, to breastfeed that like th they weren't even a lot of it wasn't even enjoyable 'cause I was stressing about the latch or sweating or like, did he get enough? Like is he still nursing? Like, you know, it wasn't really Chinae: Yeah. Merelise: like, you know, yes, we were doing skin to skin and but it wasn't an enjoyable bonding moment. It wasn't like, you know, just laying there with him on my chest and like enjoying feeling the weight of you know, it was like a tack, Chinae: Yeah. Merelise: you know. Chinae: Of course. And also like, you know, it's it's as we all know, stress is like one of the worst things you can do for your body. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: Like stress, stress affects everything. It affects your sleep. It affects it affects your your milk supply. It affects everything. And also at when they're this little, like your emotional regulation is their emotional regulation. And so Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: If you're erratic and frazzled and upset at yourself and feeling all these things, like that's gonna whatever good you're doing with breastfeeding is being undone with the amount of stress you're passing on to Merelise: Mm. Chinae: not only your baby, but the stress that you're feeling yourself. So I just I had so many friends who that pressure of breastfeeding ruined their beginning of being a mom. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And like if it comes naturally and it it works, I think it's incredible. Like Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I wish it, you know, I I wish it would have worked easily for us. But I'm also like totally fine that it didn't. And like Merelise: Yes. Chinae: we have an extremely happy almost five month old who is Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: hitting all her milestones, is so smart and is like, You know, today she ate bean soup. She ate bean soup today. So, you know, we're Merelise: And I love that. Chinae: not even thinking about breast milk at this point. Merelise: I love it. I know. And it's crazy. Like you'll blink and it'll be a distant memory. Like bottles, formula, all of that will be like a distant memory. and I just love what you said about like you never see someone you're like, You look like you were probably formula fed, you know, or like, you look like your mom didn't nurse you for a year. I'm No. It's like such a specific time period. Yes. Or like yes. Chinae: Yeah, no, like this is literally never a conversation again. It's kind of like high school GPA. It's kind of like high school GPA. You're so concerned about your high school GPA. And then post after you get that first job, like literally, I don't even remember Merelise: No one asks. Chinae: what my high school GPA is. Merelise: my God. Or my SAT score. I realized the other day I don't I couldn't remember my SAT score. I was like, I think it was like around XYZ. But yes, you're so right. It's like these things that are so intense and important and feel so meaningful for such short periods of time. And it's just, you know, it's hard to have perspective in the moment, but it is it sounds like you've gained it early on. Like I don't think I had the perspective you had at five months postpartum. So good on you. Chinae: Would say though, I would say though the biggest thing that helped me was like being around other moms. Like Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: before I was a mom. Like when I was single, even, or or just you know, in a relationship, I've still spent a lot of time with my friends with kids Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: and really s got to watch them up close, be moms, and not From a place of judging them being a mom, more so absorbing their experience. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And, you know, of course, you know, you pick up things like, man, like I see how much that troubled them, or I see how much stress that gave them. And and, you know, learning, learning Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: for yourself and your experience from the other people around you. And I think that's why it's so important for. People to be hanging out and spending time with people that are in a different life phase than you. Merelise: Mm, mm-hmm. Chinae: Like some of the best things I learned about relationships were when I was single, hanging out with my married friends. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And then some of the best things I learned about being a mom were me being without children, spending time with my friends with kids. And I think so often. You kind of segregate yourself, like, like they have kids now. So I Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: don't spend time with them as much, or they're married and I'm single. And so we're in different phases of our life and it doesn't fit. And Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I would just say, like, you know, as much as you can meld your lives together, like you can learn a lot. And like your brain has a lot of capacity to first of all support them, even if you're not going through the same thing as them, but also. kind of squirrel away knowledge and wisdom for Merelise: Uh-huh. Chinae: whatever you do want to do that. And Merelise: Mm. Chinae: there's a lot to learn from just watching people go through it. Merelise: Yeah, that's such good advice. I really love that. You're right, because we do kind of naturally segregate ourselves based on life phase. And you can learn so much and it's yeah, it's so worth it to push beyond those, you know, what feels natural or what feels like, you know, those boundaries, those invisible boundaries and yeah, Chinae: Yeah. Merelise: and and learn and absorb the wisdom, like you said. I love that. Well, okay, before I let you go, I always like to wrap up. By asking my guests to describe birth in three words. Chinae: If the first word, this one doesn't necessarily maybe it makes sense in cop, but like explosion. Like it's an explosion into the world. Like your life explodes in like the best way. It's this, it's this Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like it's not a slow growth. It's not a slow change. It's like this fast, amazing change that like from one second to the next, everything is different in your life. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chinae: in the best way. So like exploding or explosion is the first word that came to mind. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: I think the second Word I would say is learning. Like it is, I've learned more about things in the last five months of my life and pregnancy about myself, my body, the world, science, like all like Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: you learn so much in a short period of time. It's incredible. Merelise: Yes. It's an education. Chinae: Yeah. And then I think the last one is just like I I've never it's just connection. Like you you you I've never felt a connection more instantaneously, more naturally than with my child. And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: it was instant. It Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: didn't take me time. I know some for some people it does take time. Like it it Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: I don't think you know, you're not a you're not you're not a bad parent if you don't connect right away. Like things Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: take time sometimes, but for me the connection was immediate. And it was like, Okay, this this changes literally everything. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. I love it. It's it you're right, it changes everything. Like you go it's like this primal feeling of like nothing will ever be the same. Chinae: It's it's joy and rage, and I've never felt angrier than being a mother. Merelise: Yeah. God, isn't that the truth? I know. Chinae: I I am I am you're angry at the world, you're angry at how people can be the way they can be, you're protective, it it Merelise: Fiercely protective. Chinae: was so interesting. Like the second I became a mother, it was like my senses just it felt like I could sense the world in high death all of a sudden. Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: And it's like your head's on a swivel. You, you know, you notice everything. You notice every like danger. You notice every weirdo. Like it's just like you're Merelise: Everything is heightened. Chinae: just, you're just, yeah, you're living in Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: this like really heightened state. And I I think that's probably for the rest of their lives. You know, it's Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like, you know, you're just always you're just always thinking about them. Merelise: Yeah. Yes, I know. Someone described it once to me as having a child is like your heart living outside of your body. And I was like, Yep, that that sums it up. Chinae: Yeah, it's it's like the most wonderful, the most scary thing ever. Merelise: Agreed. Agreed. So worth it. Chinae: Yeah. yeah. my gosh. It was funny. I went to my six week checkup with my midwife and OP. And they, you know, they make you fill out a survey that's basically like, you know, are you okay? Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: and and obviously like so many people deal with postpartum depression and things like that. But you know, I filled up the little quiz on the iPad, and then my midwife was like, we were talking through how recovery was going and all of that. And I was like, how soon can I like medically like get pregnant again? Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: And she kind of laughed and she's like, Well, I guess I don't need to really ask you the rest of my questions. And I Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: said, Why? And she goes, Well, we're really here to check on your mental health and like how you're doing being a mom. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Chinae: But if a if a client or patient comes in asking about when they can do this again. We know you're doing okay and that that Merelise: Yeah. Chinae: like that you're doing just fine. And so, Merelise: Yes. Chinae: you know, like it was insane to be in the thick of newborn trenches and be like yeah, I could do this again. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. It is wild. Chinae: It's it's it is the insanity of motherhood and it's the best. Merelise: It is. It's it's interesting. I'll be curious to hear if you go through like phases because I think when like they're newborn and they're sweet, you're like, I can do it again and then as they get older and they start moving, you're like, I'm never doing this again and then they get into another sweet phase and you're like, I want five more and it's just like such a roller coaster, as is all of motherhood. Chinae: I I guess I gotta get I got I guess I gotta get pregnant before she starts to annoy or scare me. Merelise: There you go. That's a good plan. No, whenever it happens, we'll be the right time and it'll be great. Yes. Chinae: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I would do it over again a million times. I mean not literally, but Merelise: But a few more. Chinae: Yeah, but a couple more. Merelise: I can't wait to find out if you're pregnant with twins. I'm gonna be like keeping an eye out for the announcement. I know. Chinae: This is gonna be a really, really fun update. you gotta update the pod. Merelise: Yes, we'll have a part two. Chinae: Yes, absolutely. Merelise: well thank you so much, Chinae I really appreciate you spending the time with me and sharing your story and just like your thoughts and wisdom on motherhood and what you've experienced so far. Chinae: Yeah, thank you for having me. And you know, if anybody is has questions or anything, always feel free to reach out to me online, DM me. I'm happy to answer any questions and kind of like share the good, bad and the ugly. Merelise: It's so important. It's so important. I love that. That's so generous of you and agree. Yeah. Take the village. Chinae: All right. Yes, it does. Thank you so much. Merelise: Thank you. You've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. thank you so much. I'll stop recording. Chinae: Yes, thank