Latest / The You Project / #1721 The War After The Combat - Heston Russell

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#1721 The War After The Combat - Heston Russell · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get our you, bloody champions, Welcome to another installing
0:02
Speaker 1: the you project. It's me, It's fucking Harps. It's tiff.
0:05
Speaker 1: There we are four seconds in there's a swear word.
0:08
Speaker 1: A few people are jumping out. Hi, tiv high Harps. Now,
0:13
Speaker 1: who do you reckons more of a chance of getting
0:16
Speaker 1: a cuddle?
0:17
Speaker 2: Me or you?
0:18
Speaker 3: From our game? Breaks my heart? It's me. I think
0:21
Speaker 3: it's you, I reckon.
0:22
Speaker 1: It's both of us. It's both of us, and I
0:25
Speaker 1: think both of us would like a hug. It's a pity.
0:28
Speaker 1: It's geographically impossible at the moment. Oh look he's blushing, mate,
0:32
Speaker 1: how are you going?
0:34
Speaker 2: Well, look I'm a cuddler, so I don't shake hand.
0:36
Speaker 2: I'll take your hand, but I'll give you both a
0:38
Speaker 2: cuddle regardless of orientation. So there you go.
0:42
Speaker 1: We fan fantastic, fantastic. I am one of my mates
0:46
Speaker 1: was in the gym last night sitting on the upright
0:49
Speaker 1: vertical bench and he was doing shoulder press and he
0:52
Speaker 1: had reasonably heavyweights. And I walked in and I sat
0:56
Speaker 1: on I straddled him like Koala on a tree.
1:01
Speaker 2: There it is to showing a photo of this. That's amazing.
1:04
Speaker 2: Who was there taking the.
1:05
Speaker 1: Photo, mateo, So I straddled him like a koala on
1:10
Speaker 1: a tree and it was fun. You know I need
1:16
Speaker 1: everyone needs a bit of love, mate, I.
1:18
Speaker 2: Mean physical touch, the love language, mate, we need it.
1:21
Speaker 2: What is your speaking of that book?
1:24
Speaker 1: Like you've obviously read that book or you're at least
1:27
Speaker 1: you're familiar with the love languages.
1:29
Speaker 2: I used to teach it to the new commando officers
1:32
Speaker 2: up they passed the commando selection course and pass over
1:36
Speaker 2: all the scripture. But replace the word love with motivational value,
1:39
Speaker 2: and it's a way to sort of tap into some
1:41
Speaker 2: extra emotional intelligence, particularly in the special force of the
1:44
Speaker 2: world of needing to win over and influence people.
1:47
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So let's just let's just I didn't well,
1:51
Speaker 1: actually didn't have a plan. As you know, I never
1:52
Speaker 1: have a pot. It's good, here we go, So let's
1:55
Speaker 1: just go through them. So quality time is one physical touch,
2:00
Speaker 1: words of affirmation.
2:04
Speaker 2: Give receiving gifts, an act of service.
2:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, acts of service. So let's start with you, boxer,
2:10
Speaker 1: you fucking pugilist in the top left corner of my screen.
2:14
Speaker 1: What what do you reckon? Your love language is? Actually,
2:17
Speaker 1: can I tell you what I think.
2:19
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I reckon yours. Yours is.
2:26
Speaker 1: From me, from me? What is love for me? For
2:29
Speaker 1: you is words of affirmation.
2:31
Speaker 3: That is correct.
2:32
Speaker 2: How you receive love is words of affirmation. No, yeah,
2:35
Speaker 2: from me.
2:36
Speaker 1: She gives us because I'm her mentor she wants, which
2:41
Speaker 1: everyone does. I'm the same.
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Speaker 2: She wants a people.
2:44
Speaker 1: And a verbal hug love a verbal she doesn't like.
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Speaker 1: She doesn't like an actual hug. She's you haven't heard
2:53
Speaker 1: me say this, but she constantly when she's in the
2:55
Speaker 1: well anywhere, really, she wears a baseball cap with give
2:58
Speaker 1: us a hug and a T a T shirt that says,
3:00
Speaker 1: but fuck off.
3:01
Speaker 4: Though that was Tim two point oh, this is TIF
3:03
Speaker 4: three point oh. And he's an interesting fact. If I
3:07
Speaker 4: if my love language is actually reflective of me and
3:10
Speaker 4: my animals, it's definitely physical touch, just.
3:14
Speaker 2: Because too remember there's too so the way you feel
3:17
Speaker 2: love and then the way you show love the two
3:20
Speaker 2: different love languages. Usually Yeah, But you like.
3:23
Speaker 1: Being loved by animals because they're not going to break
3:26
Speaker 1: your heart and lie to you and bullshit you, right,
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Speaker 1: I mean that's the same with everyone.
3:31
Speaker 2: That's everyone. They're authentic. They're actually authentic. There's no ulterium
3:37
Speaker 2: motive except for maybe some food and some hugs. Absolutely,
3:41
Speaker 2: did you get that thing on?
3:42
Speaker 1: I didn't send it to you. I should send it
3:44
Speaker 1: to both of you. It's just this dude talking about
3:46
Speaker 1: how horses communicate. This is irrelevant. Who knows where we're
3:49
Speaker 1: going on this show. But like this guy who's a
3:52
Speaker 1: genuine horse whisperer and he's talking about how, you know, basically,
3:58
Speaker 1: humans are predators. Horses in the wild are prey and
4:03
Speaker 1: so they you know, apart from the fact that they
4:05
Speaker 1: don't speak human, we don't speak horse, and so it
4:09
Speaker 1: takes them along. Like their love part of their love
4:12
Speaker 1: languages being trust is being able to trust humans, and
4:15
Speaker 1: it takes them a long time.
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Speaker 2: And yeah, interesting love. It was something in there. I mean,
4:21
Speaker 2: we do a lot of equine therapy in the veteran
4:23
Speaker 2: community to help people with trauma and stuff, and it's
4:26
Speaker 2: you know, that trust and that connection. I think that
4:30
Speaker 2: is the core part that really shines through you.
4:33
Speaker 1: I think a lot like a lot of people say
4:35
Speaker 1: that that once you have a connection with a horse,
4:37
Speaker 1: it's almost supernatural. There's something special going on. Yeah, I
4:42
Speaker 1: think horses are smarter than we think I think.
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Speaker 2: That's also a respect piece there, because like a horse
4:48
Speaker 2: would actually kick the shit out of you, you know,
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Speaker 2: it's actually yeah, there's not. You don't have this physical
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Speaker 2: superiority to them as we do most animals, especially in Australia.
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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, what about your love language, Tiff? Like, what
5:03
Speaker 1: do you what do you get from like your mum
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Speaker 1: and your dad?
5:07
Speaker 2: What is it?
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Speaker 3: I reckon my mom? Is I reckon gifts? She likes
5:16
Speaker 3: she likes giving gifts? What's that?
5:19
Speaker 1: What do you want from? What do you want.
5:22
Speaker 2: The same? Words of affirmation is usually a thing? Yeah?
5:26
Speaker 2: What about how do you show love to them? How
5:29
Speaker 2: do you like showing love to people?
5:32
Speaker 3: I don't know, mate, punch in the face.
5:34
Speaker 2: Come on, Like what makes you feel good? Do you
5:38
Speaker 2: like doing things for people?
5:40
Speaker 3: Like things for people, acts of service?
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Speaker 2: I thought you might like giving gifts.
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Speaker 3: But I get a bit stressed about giving the right gift.
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Speaker 3: So I hate Christmas.
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Speaker 4: I hate buying gifts because I want the gift to
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Speaker 4: be specially and always feel stressed about it.
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Speaker 1: I reckon that acts of services you like towards me
5:57
Speaker 1: because like sometimes like we might do something like this, mate,
6:01
Speaker 1: where we have a chat and then and now a
6:04
Speaker 1: later Tiff will send me a reel that she's made
6:07
Speaker 1: of this, which is really good that she didn't have
6:09
Speaker 1: to do.
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Speaker 2: It's not she doesn't have a I definitely pick Tiff
6:13
Speaker 2: as an access service I'm the same. I'm an access
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Speaker 2: service person. I like to feel value by doing things
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Speaker 2: for people.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have this innate thing to protect people that
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Speaker 1: I love. I don't know, I think maybe that falls
6:27
Speaker 1: into acts of service, Like I'm very almost likely stupidly
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Speaker 1: territorial about people I love.
6:34
Speaker 2: No, I'm the same. It's a protecting instinct. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
6:38
Speaker 1: So you've had a quiet So you've had a quiet year.
6:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been quite interesting the last
6:45
Speaker 2: twelve months. Almost not much on, not much on. Ah, Honestly,
6:51
Speaker 2: it's you know, there's been there's been sprints, but there's
6:54
Speaker 2: been a lot of buyant time as well. Been it's
6:57
Speaker 2: been an interesting year. I thought twenty twenty was really
7:00
Speaker 2: going to be in my year, and instead it's been
7:02
Speaker 2: one of the biggest learning curve of the year that
7:05
Speaker 2: I've ever had a long time, to be honest, what
7:09
Speaker 2: have you learned? Well? So, my court case against the
7:12
Speaker 2: ABC finished October last year and I won. You know,
7:15
Speaker 2: they found the ABC and two of their journalists were
7:18
Speaker 2: personally found guilty of defamation, and you know, I want
7:22
Speaker 2: to pay out, and they did it so badly. They
7:24
Speaker 2: had to pay for all of my legal costs. It
7:26
Speaker 2: costs millions and millions of dollars attacks Player fund. But
7:29
Speaker 2: I sort of just then expected the everything else to
7:32
Speaker 2: flow through. I just expected. What was the original thing
7:35
Speaker 2: I asked for when I took them to court was
7:37
Speaker 2: an apology for my soldiers, for our families, and for
7:40
Speaker 2: me and my families. And getting an apology has literally
7:43
Speaker 2: been the bridge too far for them. I had to then,
7:49
Speaker 2: you know, I had a few ages up my sleeve.
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Speaker 2: They published this story, they added gunshots to this combat footage,
7:54
Speaker 2: they changed it, they added circles, They did all these
7:57
Speaker 2: incredible things that I didn't think I'd have to then
8:00
Speaker 2: pull out of the back as well as take them
8:03
Speaker 2: to the federal court. But I did a whole documentary
8:05
Speaker 2: with Channel seven Spotlight revealed it all. And all that's
8:09
Speaker 2: happened is for the next six months has been just
8:11
Speaker 2: as what I say is the biggest campaign of gas
8:14
Speaker 2: lighting and ask covering I've ever seen, and again, even
8:18
Speaker 2: when they had to fess up and say yes, we
8:21
Speaker 2: did edit the footage. They literally issued an apology to
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Speaker 2: all the members of the Second Commander Regiment, which I love,
8:27
Speaker 2: but refused to issue any personal apology to Heston Russell.
8:30
Speaker 2: It's a classic media play, you know, don't give someone
8:32
Speaker 2: an attention by actually saying their name. And I get
8:36
Speaker 2: it if you know we were enemies, if it was
8:38
Speaker 2: someone a company that had money to be made. But
8:41
Speaker 2: it's our ABC, It's the ABC. I you tip everyone.
8:44
Speaker 2: We literally pay our taxes towards. So I've really gone
8:48
Speaker 2: through this bracter in well. I went through this period
8:52
Speaker 2: where I was like, all of these morals and values
8:55
Speaker 2: and standards that I was brought up with and trained
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Speaker 2: in the military, are they really just only relevant for
9:01
Speaker 2: the military? Am I actually completely out of place in
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Speaker 2: regular society? Is my mindset going into life after services
9:09
Speaker 2: completely dysfunctional? Am I just fitting myself on the foot
9:12
Speaker 2: by having these expectations of, you know, people simply being good, people,
9:16
Speaker 2: having integrity, being honest? But then sort of the pendulum
9:19
Speaker 2: has shifted back because I'm stopped on the streets by
9:23
Speaker 2: just lovely people every day police officer day having a coffee,
9:27
Speaker 2: just saying hey, you know I saw your okay, so
9:29
Speaker 2: listen to podcasts this. I want you to know like
9:32
Speaker 2: you have our support. But for me and my mastering
9:35
Speaker 2: is leadership. You know, I was trained to be a
9:37
Speaker 2: Special Force as leader, had to spend four years studying
9:41
Speaker 2: leadership as I was allowed to be in charge of anyone.
9:43
Speaker 2: And I've just really been disillusioned by the leadership of
9:47
Speaker 2: not a single person from Defense speaking out even when
9:50
Speaker 2: we proved the ABC added gunshots to footage. You know,
9:53
Speaker 2: not a single politician, you know, Albow stood next to
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Speaker 2: me when we won the campaign for the Royal Commission
9:58
Speaker 2: when it was good for him and boats. You know,
10:00
Speaker 2: not a single person from the ABC willing to apologize
10:03
Speaker 2: to Heston Russell and his family. So, you know, I
10:06
Speaker 2: went through a period where I just went through a
10:08
Speaker 2: big depressive period, to be honest, and I just wanted
10:11
Speaker 2: to get out of Australia and went over to the
10:13
Speaker 2: US for a few months. I tried to build a
10:14
Speaker 2: new life there. I got a new boyfriend that fell
10:17
Speaker 2: through in a very rapid weight as well. So yeah,
10:20
Speaker 2: it's been a fascinating year. But I'm back. I'm energized,
10:23
Speaker 2: and I'm putting all my efforts and energy into my
10:27
Speaker 2: book that I'm looking to probably self publish in the
10:29
Speaker 2: next few months to be able to get this all
10:31
Speaker 2: out in detail. And perhaps he who has the last word,
10:35
Speaker 2: has the last laugh or something, how does that thing go?
10:37
Speaker 2: Who knows who.
10:39
Speaker 1: Has the last laugh wins or something?
10:41
Speaker 2: What are you think?
10:42
Speaker 1: I think?
10:44
Speaker 2: You know?
10:44
Speaker 1: It is really interesting because I find this culturally too,
10:49
Speaker 1: like where I call them cults of thought, mate, cults
10:54
Speaker 1: have thought, where people live in cognitive, emotional, political echo chambers. Right, yeah,
10:59
Speaker 1: what the what the fuck is wrong with going?
11:02
Speaker 2: Hey?
11:03
Speaker 1: I fucked up or we fucked up? What is so
11:06
Speaker 1: hard about going? I used to think A and now
11:09
Speaker 1: I think B. But the truth is that people me
11:13
Speaker 1: included I get I probably fuck up three things an episode,
11:17
Speaker 1: and we've done seventeen hundred, so that's five thousand fuck
11:20
Speaker 1: ups conservatively. I'll probably say something stupid or incorrect, right,
11:24
Speaker 1: But I know that, and I own it and I
11:27
Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and I'm still flawed. But why why do
11:31
Speaker 1: you think the ABC can't just go, look, we got
11:34
Speaker 1: it wrong. We're real sorry? What is that?
11:36
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I'm with you? Great mistakes and failure are
11:40
Speaker 2: what we spent most of our time on in the military,
11:42
Speaker 2: learning the lessons learn and putting them into practice and
11:44
Speaker 2: not do it again, and you know, writing them down
11:46
Speaker 2: and being public with them, because that's where it grows.
11:50
Speaker 2: It's just come down to and even what the judge
11:52
Speaker 2: said at the end of my verdict, it's come down
11:53
Speaker 2: to this cultural war and come down to this attitude
11:57
Speaker 2: where the ABC adopts any criticism as a fence and
12:00
Speaker 2: vigorously attacks and defends their position as opposed to objectively
12:04
Speaker 2: being what they're supposed to be. Like we're having this
12:07
Speaker 2: conversation this last week, the new chair of the ABC,
12:10
Speaker 2: Kim Williams, stood up in front of the Press Council
12:12
Speaker 2: and took a swipe at Joe Rogan, you know, talking
12:15
Speaker 2: about misinformation disinformation like the biggest podcasts in the world.
12:19
Speaker 2: And then the journalists were asking him, you know, how
12:20
Speaker 2: can you make that comment up of your organization literally
12:23
Speaker 2: has been found to have, you know, change footage, added gunshots.
12:27
Speaker 2: And the biggest issue to me, mate, has been that
12:29
Speaker 2: they appointed one of their own former executives to do
12:33
Speaker 2: this independent inquiry, which by even the term independent is
12:36
Speaker 2: not independent, you know, and they said that it was
12:39
Speaker 2: an error. Someone accidentally added extra gunshots into this footage.
12:44
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's insane and all that I'm learning.
12:47
Speaker 2: I've learned two things, you know. One camera is a
12:50
Speaker 2: bit and she slaps hard when she comes back around
12:53
Speaker 2: two and two. Like these people literally, like you said, mate,
12:56
Speaker 2: in an echo chamber. This dude, Kim Williams, he stood
12:59
Speaker 2: up and said, you know, can't stand Joe Rogan. I
13:01
Speaker 2: don't listen to him at all, but then proceeded to
13:03
Speaker 2: tell everyone why Joe Rogan was so bad. You're the
13:07
Speaker 2: head of a media organization who just admitted that you
13:09
Speaker 2: haven't personally listened to or researched this guy, but you're
13:12
Speaker 2: able to make an opinion that you're going to tell
13:14
Speaker 2: the entire press councils ahead of our ABC. So these
13:17
Speaker 2: people are in their own echo chambers. They do think
13:19
Speaker 2: they're out of breach. They're this boudoir elite that just
13:22
Speaker 2: need a reality check, and I really do feel that
13:24
Speaker 2: is coming soon.
13:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like we need some kind of this
13:31
Speaker 1: is this is a reach, but almost like a spiritual
13:34
Speaker 1: revolution where people just go, you know what, you get
13:36
Speaker 1: stuff wrong? We get stuff wrong, you know, and they
13:40
Speaker 1: like specifically to Joe Rogan. There's not too many people
13:43
Speaker 1: in Australia who've heard more Joe Rogan than me. Right,
13:46
Speaker 1: He's my go to. I was listening to Joe Rogan
13:49
Speaker 1: before I started a show, and that was This has
13:51
Speaker 1: been around for seven years. I've probably listened to two
13:55
Speaker 1: thousand of his his twenty three hundred or so episodes.
13:58
Speaker 1: And I agree with everything sometimes, you know, when they're
14:02
Speaker 1: sitting on talking about dope endlessly or comedy that is,
14:06
Speaker 1: or you know, it's like, I don't agree with everything,
14:10
Speaker 1: but you cannot accuse him of not having diverse conversations
14:15
Speaker 1: with diverse and being relatively I love it.
14:19
Speaker 2: You hear some of the conversations hit there going like,
14:21
Speaker 2: you know, I never thought that way, I never agreed
14:23
Speaker 2: with that, but you provided me with a diferent perspective,
14:26
Speaker 2: like it's actually an open progressive conversation one hundred percent.
14:30
Speaker 1: And even with you know, it's like he had Donald
14:32
Speaker 1: Trump on and people like, oh, of course, I had
14:33
Speaker 1: fucking Donald Trump, and then he spoke about invite and
14:36
Speaker 1: by the way, everyone that's not political, this is just
14:38
Speaker 1: about Then he offered Kamala to come on, and they're like, well,
14:42
Speaker 1: you can interview her, not in your studio, not for
14:45
Speaker 1: three hours. You have to come to us. You have
14:48
Speaker 1: to be in this environment and here's a list of
14:50
Speaker 1: thirty five things you can't talk about, and it's going
14:53
Speaker 1: to be sixty minutes. And so it was all going
14:55
Speaker 1: to be orchestrated. He's like nah, And then people are like, oh,
14:59
Speaker 1: why didn't you do you get the other side. It's like,
15:01
Speaker 1: I offered her to come in, but there were so
15:03
Speaker 1: many stipulations and rules that it wouldn't have been an
15:06
Speaker 1: organic conversation, which is what he does, you know.
15:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm with her. I was just
15:13
Speaker 2: I was literally over in the US for Halloween, the
15:16
Speaker 2: election and my birthday was a very very unique time.
15:19
Speaker 2: And I live in a blue side from all my
15:23
Speaker 2: friends in blue states over there, and it was really
15:25
Speaker 2: a fascinating time. But yeah, mate, for yeah, the head
15:28
Speaker 2: of the ABC that we all pay for, that's meant
15:31
Speaker 2: to be an unbiased, neutual organization to even stand up
15:35
Speaker 2: and take a swipe at the biggest podcast in the world, Like,
15:39
Speaker 2: how is that smart? How does that reflect on Australia?
15:42
Speaker 2: How does that positively impact his job, like it's just
15:47
Speaker 2: for me, it's just insane, Like this guy is just
15:50
Speaker 2: up in the clouds anyway, And then that helps me
15:52
Speaker 2: really understand why the organization is doing what it's doing,
15:55
Speaker 2: you know, because you know, leadership and culture all starts
15:58
Speaker 2: from the top of close through.
16:00
Speaker 1: Well, it's like me or you standing up talking about fuck,
16:04
Speaker 1: I don't know about fucking neurosurgery and going you know what,
16:07
Speaker 1: I think, Well, we don't fuck because you're not a
16:10
Speaker 1: neurosurgeon and you've never done an operation, Craig, and you're
16:14
Speaker 1: a dumbass. Like if you, like, if he'd been away
16:18
Speaker 1: and listened to one hundred episodes or even ten episodes
16:21
Speaker 1: of Rogan all the way through, you know, then maybe,
16:24
Speaker 1: but as he said, he's never listened. Like, dude, you're commenting,
16:28
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people say that to me. I
16:30
Speaker 1: don't need to listen to him. I'm like, how the
16:33
Speaker 1: fuck you have an opinion about someone you've never met?
16:35
Speaker 2: In inverted comments, I love it. My favorite these days
16:39
Speaker 2: at Denzel Washington. What's he saying, if you listen or
16:41
Speaker 2: read to the media, if you don't listen or read
16:44
Speaker 2: to the media, you're not informed. If you do listen
16:46
Speaker 2: or read or listen to them, you're misinformed or unimportant.
16:50
Speaker 2: He's fantastic, but yeah, we're getting away from what is
16:54
Speaker 2: meant to be their core role and function. And what
16:57
Speaker 2: I love in this diversity of free speech world Western
17:00
Speaker 2: world is you know, just like Joe Rogan, you don't
17:03
Speaker 2: like all these episodes, but it's there to provide that variety,
17:05
Speaker 2: and you can tune in, your tune out, and it's
17:07
Speaker 2: nothing to stop you from going and fact checking yourself.
17:10
Speaker 2: Like even this government disinformation and Misinformation Bill which got
17:14
Speaker 2: defeated thankfully, you know, they excluded the ABC and others
17:18
Speaker 2: from it, and so many of my friends even in
17:20
Speaker 2: the current parliament, the current sentiment are just like Si Senate,
17:24
Speaker 2: You've literally just had the tax payer funder ABC be
17:27
Speaker 2: found to have done what is by default misinformation and
17:30
Speaker 2: you're going to exclude them from this.
17:33
Speaker 5: You know.
17:34
Speaker 2: What I've again taken faith from is that government might
17:37
Speaker 2: keep thinking that they can provide the parental solutions to
17:41
Speaker 2: the people. At the end of the day, more and
17:42
Speaker 2: more people are just being more and more free thinking,
17:45
Speaker 2: you know. And even this bill about banning teenagers from
17:49
Speaker 2: social media, you know, broths and coins. But at the
17:52
Speaker 2: end of the day, I just have a blatant issue
17:54
Speaker 2: with people in Parliament thinking that they are better parents,
17:59
Speaker 2: that they're better on health and nutrition, they better advisers
18:02
Speaker 2: on how we should live our lives as opposed to
18:04
Speaker 2: what their core function is meant to be. And that's
18:06
Speaker 2: like progressing our country and making our standard of life
18:09
Speaker 2: better and easier and more enjoyable and all the rest.
18:13
Speaker 2: I mean, you just have to watch them and see
18:14
Speaker 2: the atics carry on with it's school yard, school yard
18:17
Speaker 2: bullshit anyway, Well.
18:20
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's all mate. There's no digression because
18:23
Speaker 1: there's no plan. There's no fucking direction on this show.
18:28
Speaker 1: It's the it's the verbal version of a dog with
18:30
Speaker 1: three dicks this show. So we're okay with that. It's
18:37
Speaker 1: the conversational the conversational dog with three dicks speaking of
18:41
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. Yeah, I was watching you,
18:44
Speaker 1: you know, I watched the Spotlight show doc and but
18:50
Speaker 1: you know, I've been watching you mate, amazing, and I
18:56
Speaker 1: try not to. I think I sent you a few things,
18:58
Speaker 1: but I try not to because I know you're going
18:59
Speaker 1: to be and undoated with shit.
19:00
Speaker 2: But what I appreciated. Mat I get to everything. I
19:03
Speaker 2: get to everything, I really do.
19:04
Speaker 6: Yeah, Actually what I wanted was like, you're clearly very resilient,
19:10
Speaker 6: and you clearly have got you know, because of your training,
19:16
Speaker 6: and I would think your personality and your nature.
19:19
Speaker 1: You know, you've got really good skills to be able
19:21
Speaker 1: to deal with shit, you know, as any soldier needs
19:25
Speaker 1: to be able to deal with discomfort and pain and
19:27
Speaker 1: uncertainty and all those things that human beings don't like,
19:31
Speaker 1: the unknown, the uncertain, the unfamiliar, and the uncomfortable. That's
19:34
Speaker 1: where you live as a soldier. But this is a
19:38
Speaker 1: different type of pain, isn't it going through like public
19:42
Speaker 1: scrutiny where people are publicly saying, essentially, you're a piece
19:47
Speaker 1: of shit who did all these bad things and it's
19:50
Speaker 1: absolutely untrue, but you can't, you know.
19:55
Speaker 7: Like and of course you've been vindicated and it's all
19:58
Speaker 7: bullshit and they fucked up and they were dishonest. We get,
20:02
Speaker 7: but there was a period of time where people didn't
20:04
Speaker 7: know that, right, people like that.
20:06
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a great observation. I love to dive
20:10
Speaker 2: into this because you know, my whole psychology sociology came
20:15
Speaker 2: from being a pretty unpopular fat kid at school to
20:18
Speaker 2: being very successful in the military. But in particular, what
20:21
Speaker 2: I was able to achieve during my time throughout my
20:23
Speaker 2: military career was to be very good at my job
20:26
Speaker 2: and very liked by everyone as well. Like I always
20:28
Speaker 2: put in the work to be good at my job
20:31
Speaker 2: and a good person. That's the quote and ethought that
20:33
Speaker 2: my sort of dad gave me from his time in
20:35
Speaker 2: the military. And even when we talk about and lecture
20:38
Speaker 2: about and teach leadership, where you often separate leadership from
20:41
Speaker 2: likability to people focused on being liked and impact their job.
20:45
Speaker 2: But I was always able to be both because I
20:48
Speaker 2: always maintained a lie. My guys even said, there's hesto
20:51
Speaker 2: and there's hesta, and like you know, I was able
20:53
Speaker 2: to really put in those boundaries. And throughout my entire
20:57
Speaker 2: career in special courses, no one knew what you did
21:00
Speaker 2: in your outside life. You didn't have social media, your
21:03
Speaker 2: family on knew bits and pieces, but you had all
21:05
Speaker 2: of the Maslow's hierarchicve needs, plus all of your love
21:09
Speaker 2: languages catered for by the incredible team that you deployed
21:13
Speaker 2: five times to the Middle East and would literally die
21:16
Speaker 2: for because you knew that's what was required, and you
21:20
Speaker 2: love them like you know brothers and sisters. And my
21:23
Speaker 2: love language is my love language. The way I received
21:25
Speaker 2: love had always been acts of service. I had always
21:28
Speaker 2: been sorry equality time, because I love to do things
21:31
Speaker 2: for people, simply being able to be around people and
21:33
Speaker 2: not feel like I have to do things for them,
21:35
Speaker 2: and have people who just wanted to hang around with
21:37
Speaker 2: me be with me. You know, I'd never was alone
21:39
Speaker 2: once in my career, and then particularly through the last
21:42
Speaker 2: two years, my love language, the way which I need
21:45
Speaker 2: to feel love is literally changed to words of affirmation
21:48
Speaker 2: because I have had my identity broken down and learned
21:55
Speaker 2: in front of me by those with the means to
21:57
Speaker 2: do so, and being unable to do so myself. And
21:59
Speaker 2: I've had more people, particularly in the gay community here
22:03
Speaker 2: in Sydney wherever, more people come out with hatred towards
22:06
Speaker 2: me online and whatnot who've never actually met me, And
22:10
Speaker 2: that affected me so much because I'd never been so
22:13
Speaker 2: accustomed to people not liking me, because I genuinely do
22:15
Speaker 2: everything with the right reasons, for the right reasons and
22:18
Speaker 2: responsibly in my opinion, and I put myself last in
22:21
Speaker 2: the order of a lot of things that I do.
22:23
Speaker 2: So I had then had to go through this period,
22:25
Speaker 2: particularly at the end of the court case, you know,
22:27
Speaker 2: when I was able to prove that I was right
22:29
Speaker 2: the whole time in reassessing what was value to me,
22:34
Speaker 2: decluttering my life from all the people who left when
22:36
Speaker 2: the times were bad and not only allowing a handful
22:38
Speaker 2: back in when the times were good, you know. And yeah,
22:43
Speaker 2: and really understanding more and more about myself. And yeah,
22:49
Speaker 2: it's been a really interesting rebuilding phase from that. But
22:52
Speaker 2: end of the day, and now I'm at a point
22:53
Speaker 2: where I just appreciate you're never going to please everyone,
22:56
Speaker 2: do things for the right reasons, and stop caring so
22:59
Speaker 2: much for people think. And this is the one thing
23:01
Speaker 2: I say to people when they say, oh, so and
23:03
Speaker 2: so I said something about you, I'm like, as have
23:05
Speaker 2: they ever met me? No? Then, like, I don't give
23:07
Speaker 2: a shit. You know, if I've generally done something or
23:09
Speaker 2: had a mistake, that's great, Give me a call, give
23:12
Speaker 2: me a text, you know, shoot me a DM. Otherwise
23:14
Speaker 2: I do not care about your opinion.
23:17
Speaker 1: It's so interesting how much people that don't know us
23:22
Speaker 1: or love us, you know, can affect us. And I'm
23:28
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm a fair bit better than
23:30
Speaker 1: I used to be. But I might get a hundred
23:32
Speaker 1: comments on something that are good and one that goes
23:34
Speaker 1: you or I can't. I'm like, that's all I pay
23:37
Speaker 1: attention to. And I'm like, I can't sleep because some.
23:41
Speaker 2: Of the love heart I put a love heart on it.
23:43
Speaker 2: Now I just put a love art on it. You know.
23:47
Speaker 2: I did a few months ago.
23:49
Speaker 1: I did what I call a private workshop, which just
23:52
Speaker 1: means it's for twenty twenty five people, not a big workshop.
23:55
Speaker 1: So it was like half a day and anyway, it
23:58
Speaker 1: was probably five dudes, ladies, and so we spend about
24:02
Speaker 1: five hours together. We spend a bit of time together.
24:04
Speaker 1: We do a deep dive and everyone gets to talk
24:06
Speaker 1: and ask questions and it's good. You know, there's tears
24:09
Speaker 1: and snot and hugs and that's pretty good experience. And
24:12
Speaker 1: one of the ladies goes to me, just it was
24:17
Speaker 1: in the context of the conversation. She goes, my ex
24:19
Speaker 1: husband hates you. She's just like that hates you. I go, oh, goody,
24:24
Speaker 1: what's his name? And she tells me. I go, I don't,
24:27
Speaker 1: I go do I know him? She goes, oh, no,
24:29
Speaker 1: you've never met. I go, right, so, have I had
24:32
Speaker 1: a chat with him? She's like, no, no, no, you've
24:36
Speaker 1: never know. But he hates you. I'm like, oh, okay,
24:38
Speaker 1: why does he hate me? He goes? She goes, because
24:41
Speaker 1: he thinks you broke up our marriage because I started
24:44
Speaker 1: listening to you.
24:46
Speaker 2: Right, wow, I mean that lays it. Yep.
24:49
Speaker 1: I'm like, so he was a prick and then you
24:53
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, that is hilarious, like she started
24:56
Speaker 1: standing up for her self and and because she stood
24:59
Speaker 1: up for her self and because she wouldn't be treated
25:01
Speaker 1: like a doormat and nothing to do with him, he
25:05
Speaker 1: wasn't fold at all. Like the person responsible for the
25:09
Speaker 1: the demise of his marriage was the the blok who's
25:12
Speaker 1: got the podcast. I'm like, how fucking stupid are you?
25:16
Speaker 1: And how a self awareness do you not have?
25:20
Speaker 2: Mate? That's the key part. So when people say that
25:23
Speaker 2: to me, you know, so and so hates you, like cool?
25:26
Speaker 2: Have ever let me know? My response is I think, well,
25:28
Speaker 2: that's more of a reflection on them than is me,
25:30
Speaker 2: because I would never make up an opinion on someone
25:32
Speaker 2: without meeting them. But what I've also learned is because
25:34
Speaker 2: I've definitely been in that place as well. People attack
25:38
Speaker 2: because they're either protecting or projecting something that's going on
25:40
Speaker 2: with them. You know, at the end of the day,
25:42
Speaker 2: the energy we're putting out is coming from a place.
25:45
Speaker 2: So if someone's unhappy with me or angry with me,
25:47
Speaker 2: or do you know, go on Twitter, mate and see
25:48
Speaker 2: they are angry people on there. Like I now to
25:51
Speaker 2: sit back and go, hey, there's something else going on
25:53
Speaker 2: behind the scenes here and that's not my issue, that's
25:56
Speaker 2: their You know, you look like an idiot put in
25:58
Speaker 2: these tweets. They'll come back and you know, launt you
26:00
Speaker 2: in five or ten years time when you go for
26:02
Speaker 2: a job, go nuts, especially after going through the court.
26:05
Speaker 2: Some of the best tweets came from maybe the ABC
26:08
Speaker 2: what's her bigger name of data dumped it because she's
26:11
Speaker 2: just a waste. She was the she was the head
26:15
Speaker 2: of the investigations. I can't remember her name, but anyway,
26:17
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, no, I never said this, I never
26:19
Speaker 2: said this, And then my lawyer just pulls out like
26:21
Speaker 2: her Twitter account and says, well, these sweets say you did,
26:24
Speaker 2: and she literally with court lying in the stand it
26:28
Speaker 2: was man's okay.
26:29
Speaker 1: So when when she said I didn't say that, and
26:31
Speaker 1: then he produced evidence that she did say that.
26:34
Speaker 2: What did she do? Then she like, yeah, my barrister,
26:40
Speaker 2: sucras ant, what is this? She was just a hearty
26:43
Speaker 2: She was a terrible, terrible person. She was just every
26:45
Speaker 2: answer she had she was like spitting fire out of
26:48
Speaker 2: the You like, just to watch it. You know. I
26:51
Speaker 2: was sitting at the back of the court and like,
26:53
Speaker 2: my barrister that morning had run me through what she's
26:55
Speaker 2: going to do. And she's like, so, miss Puccini, Joanne Puccini,
26:59
Speaker 2: that's it. She's she's now the head of ABC's investigations.
27:03
Speaker 2: It incredible. She's like, so you never said that this
27:06
Speaker 2: article was linked to this one or was never talking
27:08
Speaker 2: about Heston Russell. And she's like, yeah, that's correct. She's
27:10
Speaker 2: like cool, Okay, here are your tweets that say Mark
27:13
Speaker 2: Willisy upheld Heston Russell. Blah blah blah blah. And you
27:16
Speaker 2: just watched her drop like three or four inches and
27:19
Speaker 2: exhale in the chair. It's just like gotchaw. My embarrasster too,
27:24
Speaker 2: just looks over her shoulder at me. It just gives
27:26
Speaker 2: me a week and I'm trying to maintain my composure,
27:29
Speaker 2: you know, people thinking that, and this is embarrasses me
27:32
Speaker 2: in the bet She's like, the truth comes out. The
27:34
Speaker 2: one thing you'll learn about, you know, good lawyers and
27:36
Speaker 2: legal process is truth comes out. Yeah, and that was
27:40
Speaker 2: even incredible. Mate, Like this, I'm saying, this is all
27:42
Speaker 2: the stuff that come out. The ABC head of Investigations
27:45
Speaker 2: unit was caught lying on the stand. But hey, you
27:47
Speaker 2: know she's probably going to be promoted next week. Who cares.
27:52
Speaker 1: Hey, I want to talk to you about trust.
27:55
Speaker 2: Oh, tell me about it.
27:58
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go trust. Just if on that
28:00
Speaker 1: for me before I ask a specific question, grif.
28:04
Speaker 2: On that, My personal journey with trust has always been
28:07
Speaker 2: I trust people too far. I trust. I historically trust
28:12
Speaker 2: people first, and then you lose my trust. And again,
28:15
Speaker 2: when we spoke about this shift in the last year
28:17
Speaker 2: or so, people really now need to earn my trust
28:20
Speaker 2: because as soon as I trust. I think the two
28:23
Speaker 2: values for me that are very interlinked I trust and loyalty, Like,
28:26
Speaker 2: if I trust you, then you have my loyalty. And
28:29
Speaker 2: I think loyalty is probably my strongest value and skill
28:32
Speaker 2: set I bring to any sort of relationship.
28:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think I did it the other way around. I, oh, okay, no,
28:40
Speaker 1: maybe I did know. Maybe I was yeah, yeah, we
28:43
Speaker 1: don't have to be the same, mate, No, no, no,
28:45
Speaker 1: But I did you ask me once if I if
28:48
Speaker 1: you trusted me, and I said not completely because it
28:51
Speaker 1: was early day, or.
28:52
Speaker 3: You said you did know?
28:53
Speaker 5: You said you did, and I was like, right, But
28:57
Speaker 5: I've had no no, no, no, I've I've had people that
29:00
Speaker 5: I've known for a while, like you know, and there's
29:03
Speaker 5: no tragedy here or no self pity.
29:05
Speaker 1: But like over the years, especially in my twenties and thirties,
29:09
Speaker 1: I trusted, like, not only trusted, loved some people, like
29:14
Speaker 1: would have pretty much walked over a fucking broken glass
29:17
Speaker 1: for them who did some horrible shit, right, none of
29:21
Speaker 1: it life threatening, but horrible nonetheless. And so for these
29:26
Speaker 1: like these days, I just takes me quite a while.
29:30
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I distrust someone. It just means I don't
29:33
Speaker 1: trust them yet. You know, I'm kind of almost on
29:36
Speaker 1: the fence because that, yeah, especially when you.
29:41
Speaker 2: I think I don't know, that's important. That's an important
29:44
Speaker 2: back to there. Mate, Like you said, there's there's not
29:46
Speaker 2: trust and distrust, there's just this area in the middle
29:49
Speaker 2: where you just I'm sure, yes, a lot of people
29:51
Speaker 2: feel like you need to be you don't need to
29:52
Speaker 2: be hostile, you're just you know, not willing to put
29:55
Speaker 2: that foot forward yet. Yeah. Yeah.
29:57
Speaker 1: And there's people that I know quite well, you know,
30:00
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm known for a bit and I still don't.
30:02
Speaker 1: Like I said, yeah, I don't distrust them. But there
30:04
Speaker 1: are people that that I and I'm like, I'm a
30:07
Speaker 1: big baby too. If I fucking love someone, I love them,
30:10
Speaker 1: and if they do something, I'm fucked. I'm like, oh fuck,
30:15
Speaker 1: because I mean, nobody needs fucking batty harps to tell
30:19
Speaker 1: them that loves a motherfucker.
30:21
Speaker 2: And how are you when someone loses your trust? Like,
30:25
Speaker 2: are you dumb?
30:28
Speaker 1: Oh? If I don't trust them anymore, yeah, I distrust them.
30:32
Speaker 2: I'm like I'm an elephant. I never forget never.
30:35
Speaker 1: No, I'm like, nah, see, yeah, I mean it has
30:38
Speaker 1: to be significant, Like if they fucked up accidentally or incidentally,
30:41
Speaker 1: that's cool. But if they consciously did something, knowingly did
30:45
Speaker 1: something and chose that, and it's have to be pretty bad.
30:50
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, I'm but like, even with the people
30:54
Speaker 1: that have done shit to me over the time, I
30:57
Speaker 1: don't hate anyone, like I don't I pretty much like
31:00
Speaker 1: I hate things that people do, but I don't hate
31:03
Speaker 1: humans like I just don't. I don't give them any
31:07
Speaker 1: space in my head. You know, it's like, no, I
31:11
Speaker 1: don't hate that person. I just genuinely don't fucking think
31:14
Speaker 1: about them, Like I don't like they take up zero
31:17
Speaker 1: percent of my emotional energy or focus.
31:19
Speaker 2: You know.
31:20
Speaker 1: It's like.
31:22
Speaker 2: I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire,
31:25
Speaker 2: that's all.
31:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a sprinkle just then go sorry, it's all
31:31
Speaker 1: I've got. I'm sixty one. Well I've got you did well,
31:38
Speaker 1: love it, fuck and thank you very much.
31:40
Speaker 2: Well what have you? What have you learned about you?
31:44
Speaker 2: Not what have you learned, but what have you learned
31:47
Speaker 2: you in the last year.
31:50
Speaker 1: Or maybe maybe more than a year, because it's been
31:53
Speaker 1: like you've been through, been through something that most people
31:55
Speaker 1: will never go through.
31:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've learned that I'm not where near as resilient
32:00
Speaker 2: as I used to be. Wow. And I really understood
32:04
Speaker 2: that that came from, you know, the times where I
32:09
Speaker 2: was in combat, the times where I was life or death,
32:11
Speaker 2: you know, the whole career of life or death. I
32:13
Speaker 2: realized I had two proactive layers of resilience being the
32:16
Speaker 2: officer and being the leader. I had the mission and
32:19
Speaker 2: then I had my team, and my head and heart
32:21
Speaker 2: always had those two protective barriers where I was always
32:24
Speaker 2: forward thinking, forward feeling before I was ever inside my
32:27
Speaker 2: own heaven heart. And I've had to go through a
32:30
Speaker 2: lot of this with some great support from some very
32:32
Speaker 2: close friends and family, but it's really been a very
32:36
Speaker 2: lonely time, and particularly a lot of those people who
32:39
Speaker 2: you know, even my former military bosses and politicians, and
32:43
Speaker 2: you know, I had former prime ministers on my podcast
32:45
Speaker 2: when the time was good. You know, when I was
32:48
Speaker 2: in combat in Afghanistan and if it looked like we
32:50
Speaker 2: were in trouble, I could jump on the radio and
32:52
Speaker 2: call in the finger of God, calling support, call and
32:54
Speaker 2: the rest. And when I have picked up the phone
32:56
Speaker 2: to ask for support, from even trying to afford the
32:59
Speaker 2: legal costs through to you know, achieving real accountability and
33:03
Speaker 2: help some of my soldiers along the way, you know,
33:05
Speaker 2: it's been silent and it's been a really lonely time.
33:09
Speaker 2: So I've appreciated that I am less resilient when I'm
33:13
Speaker 2: by myself, and how I really need to invest more
33:16
Speaker 2: in bloody lower keets, I need to invest more in
33:20
Speaker 2: the people I keep around me, because literally I definitely
33:24
Speaker 2: spent my time maintaining much more of a social friendship
33:27
Speaker 2: group and not a lot of people who could really
33:30
Speaker 2: be there for the hard times. And yeah, just it's
33:34
Speaker 2: helped me really reassess what are my values, you know,
33:37
Speaker 2: how I go and feel love and what I actually
33:40
Speaker 2: need to make sure I don't hit rock bottom like
33:43
Speaker 2: I kind of did a couple of times this last
33:45
Speaker 2: few years as well.
33:46
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a relationship or you might have
33:49
Speaker 1: had several where what you kind of wake up one
33:52
Speaker 1: day and you go, oh, this is a transactional thing.
33:56
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, you know, where now I'm not
33:59
Speaker 1: I'm not valuable to them anymore. So I don't hear
34:02
Speaker 1: from them. Oh that wasn't a friendship, that was some
34:05
Speaker 1: kind of strategic arrangement.
34:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this has been look, I see my psychologists
34:11
Speaker 2: psychiagist each week, and this has been a lot of
34:13
Speaker 2: the sort of decompartmentalizing unpacking that I've gone through. Is
34:17
Speaker 2: that particularly, you know, when I went from a place
34:20
Speaker 2: of not being able to make friends in school to
34:22
Speaker 2: having lots of friends in my military career and then
34:25
Speaker 2: once leaving that, I've always been able to bring acts
34:28
Speaker 2: of service as my value into friendships. I end up
34:31
Speaker 2: down the one instigating at a relationship where I feel
34:35
Speaker 2: like I need to do things for people to be
34:37
Speaker 2: transactional for people to maintain those connections, and I've been
34:40
Speaker 2: chasing instead of attracting. So yeah, it's really been even
34:44
Speaker 2: shifting that complete mindset and feeling relationships as opposed to
34:48
Speaker 2: thinking or planning about relationships. That's something that I'm still
34:51
Speaker 2: trying to work through myself.
34:53
Speaker 1: M And what are you doing now, mate? Like, what
34:56
Speaker 1: are you up to? How do you feel in your days?
34:58
Speaker 1: What's your job? What's your focus as your attention?
35:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Veteran Games. We just completed the second
35:04
Speaker 2: year of the Veteran Games on the Gold Coast. Next
35:06
Speaker 2: year October will be October twenty five will be our
35:09
Speaker 2: third year and it's just grown, It's doubled in size.
35:12
Speaker 2: Veterangames dot Com check it out. It's an event I
35:16
Speaker 2: came up with myself through my charity, and we're helping
35:19
Speaker 2: the highest SAT risk demographic of veterans identified by the
35:22
Speaker 2: Royal Commission. But we're having fun. We're getting people together,
35:25
Speaker 2: forming teams, doing obstacle courses, doing all good stuff, and
35:28
Speaker 2: then post my bourtcase when corporate's kind of like me again.
35:33
Speaker 2: So I've been getting back into doing some keynotes and
35:36
Speaker 2: some workshops intermitted. But I also spent a lot of
35:40
Speaker 2: time this year overseas with my mates in the US
35:45
Speaker 2: and taking a bit more personal time for myself. But yeah,
35:47
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, more travel, more engagements, get my book out,
35:51
Speaker 2: and really work hard on the veteran games for October
35:53
Speaker 2: next year.
35:55
Speaker 1: Do you spend I speak about this idea or this
35:58
Speaker 1: concept quite a lot with I spoke about this this
36:01
Speaker 1: morning with somebody, the idea of spending two or three
36:06
Speaker 1: days a year where it's just you with you, no phone,
36:11
Speaker 1: no no one, no newspapers, no interaction, no How much
36:16
Speaker 1: time do you spend alone where you're not distracted by
36:20
Speaker 1: something and it's just you and your thoughts. Are you're
36:23
Speaker 1: good at that or bad at that?
36:25
Speaker 2: I can sit in my thoughts all day. That's actually
36:29
Speaker 2: my issue. My weakness is being present in the moment
36:34
Speaker 2: unless I'm really ripped into that moment through a period
36:37
Speaker 2: of joy or through a period of achievement. So I can, Yeah,
36:41
Speaker 2: my head will just sit there and plan, you know,
36:44
Speaker 2: for decades and dynasties. Yeah, right right, Yeah, it's really
36:48
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's always I think my imagination, particularly
36:52
Speaker 2: being a fat, lonely kid on the cat at home,
36:54
Speaker 2: you know, back before they're on mobile phones and you're
36:56
Speaker 2: waiting for someone to call on the landline. Yeah. Yeah,
36:57
Speaker 2: my imagination has always been a play for me to
37:00
Speaker 2: escape too. And then my military career my ability to plan,
37:04
Speaker 2: but then particularly just continuously think about what ifs and
37:07
Speaker 2: contingency plans and what happens here and to bring out
37:10
Speaker 2: what might come. That's all my head's really good at.
37:12
Speaker 2: But sometimes I just wish I could take it Bill
37:14
Speaker 2: and switch it off and sit there and you know, meditate.
37:18
Speaker 2: Meditation is my biggest issue. I have to go and
37:20
Speaker 2: like watch the ocean or you know, play with a
37:22
Speaker 2: dog or things like that. Yeah.
37:24
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that for you, of course, Craig Harp is
37:28
Speaker 1: going to say this, but I'm guessing that really working
37:32
Speaker 1: out is part of your therapy, is you know, part
37:35
Speaker 1: of your anxiety reduction, stress management, emotional kind of wellness.
37:42
Speaker 2: It really is, particularly like I love, I've incorporated much
37:45
Speaker 2: more like yoga and pillarate's like low intensity stuff because
37:48
Speaker 2: I find my body winds up and gears up too quick.
37:51
Speaker 2: But in particular going to the gym and just lifting
37:54
Speaker 2: and doing like myop birtuby training, listening to music or
37:57
Speaker 2: just having earphones in so people don't talk to me
38:00
Speaker 2: and just listening to my own thoughts. It's fascinating how
38:03
Speaker 2: that's where I do some of my best thinking. And
38:06
Speaker 2: my friend Sam, who's a COO for the charity obways
38:10
Speaker 2: like sending a mestersca. He's like, you're at the gym,
38:12
Speaker 2: aren't you because just my thoughts. Well, I think just
38:16
Speaker 2: doing something manual, you know again that brings you into
38:19
Speaker 2: the moment and doesn't require you can't really overthink, you know,
38:23
Speaker 2: doing your repetition, so you're trying to focus on my
38:25
Speaker 2: muscle connection. It just enables some form of better alignment
38:29
Speaker 2: in me that allows some thoughts to sort of flow. Yeah.
38:33
Speaker 1: I talk about this idea, mate all the time, of
38:35
Speaker 1: people finding the optimal version of their normal operating system.
38:41
Speaker 1: Like everyone has a normal operating system. How you do life,
38:44
Speaker 1: how you do food, how you do relationships, how you
38:46
Speaker 1: do money, how you do career, whatever, What are the
38:51
Speaker 1: things that you have to do to not lose your shit,
38:55
Speaker 1: I mean, apart from exercise, but like, what what's the
38:59
Speaker 1: heston rah kind of operating system, physical, emotional, psychological, professional,
39:05
Speaker 1: personal What are some of the non negotiables for you
39:08
Speaker 1: to stay sane or as close to saying.
39:11
Speaker 2: As you are? So this is it? Like I'm actually
39:15
Speaker 2: pretty is the word? Low? Guy? Like, I don't need
39:18
Speaker 2: a lot of fine trimmings, you know, I can you know,
39:21
Speaker 2: I can rough. I don't really care. But I think
39:23
Speaker 2: for me, at the end of the day, it's purpose.
39:26
Speaker 2: It's has something to look to look forward to be that,
39:28
Speaker 2: particularly for me having a social trip, you know, a
39:31
Speaker 2: trip overseas or something, and the next sort of the
39:34
Speaker 2: next knowing that I'm going to go away somewhere and
39:37
Speaker 2: escape somewhere for a bit. I think it's something that
39:39
Speaker 2: I find that I really really need because a big
39:41
Speaker 2: fear for me is getting stuck and stagnant sort of
39:43
Speaker 2: where I am. And a big part for me, mate,
39:49
Speaker 2: like my nutrition is actually a really big grounding part
39:52
Speaker 2: for me. I really struggled with sort of food as
39:55
Speaker 2: a kid, and again in the military, you just sort
39:57
Speaker 2: of eat to fuel and you never really learn a
39:59
Speaker 2: lot of about it, but particularly as I get older
40:02
Speaker 2: and having a routine and regiment for my eating and
40:05
Speaker 2: not you know, eating on the go or grabbing ship food,
40:08
Speaker 2: because my body just responds and my mindset responds so
40:11
Speaker 2: much to the food medicine that I put into it.
40:14
Speaker 2: So most people know, even when I'm traveling, if there's
40:17
Speaker 2: somewhere I can work out and I can get like
40:20
Speaker 2: good clean food, I'm set. Like the rest the rest
40:24
Speaker 2: of the routine can be chaos.
40:26
Speaker 1: Is it there a petetic hang for you hanging out
40:29
Speaker 1: with guys and girls that you've served with, like people
40:34
Speaker 1: who have kind of been through a version of what
40:36
Speaker 1: you've that seems to us fucking civilians like there's some special,
40:42
Speaker 1: amazing no with everyone. But I listened to lots of
40:46
Speaker 1: people who have served, and it's like there's this magic
40:49
Speaker 1: that happens between you.
40:51
Speaker 2: There really is. And the last four years, in particular
40:55
Speaker 2: running my charity campaign for the Royal Commission all the rest,
40:58
Speaker 2: like I get in undated and contacted and hang around
41:01
Speaker 2: with veterans all the time, But at this point of
41:05
Speaker 2: time in my life, I actually think I'm a bit
41:07
Speaker 2: emotionally fatigued because I'm actually hyper cautious of constantly being
41:11
Speaker 2: drawn back to what I have done, And there's actually
41:14
Speaker 2: a point of me who wants to bring forward the
41:16
Speaker 2: lessons learned and make sure that the pathway for the
41:20
Speaker 2: next veterans isn't what I had to go through. But
41:22
Speaker 2: I just from a mindset perspective, constantly being around veterans
41:27
Speaker 2: these days and veteran issues isn't healthy for me. And
41:32
Speaker 2: that's why I really am putting my energy into the
41:35
Speaker 2: Veteran Games. When we get together for that long weekend,
41:38
Speaker 2: it is it is on, and it is enjoyable and
41:40
Speaker 2: it is great. And want to connect with people on
41:43
Speaker 2: ANZAC Day, like little little shots in the arm are great.
41:47
Speaker 2: But I whereas previously I've been completely immersed and surrounded
41:51
Speaker 2: by it. There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot
41:53
Speaker 2: of different people's journeys and different people's transitions from service
41:58
Speaker 2: life to regular life. In particular, I find it very relatable.
42:04
Speaker 2: Is great to lead about the good things, but in
42:05
Speaker 2: particular what I've learned is particularly my journey's been so
42:08
Speaker 2: unique because most of my soldiers who have got out
42:10
Speaker 2: have gone on to have families and to have kids,
42:12
Speaker 2: and I guess me being the only gay commando, I
42:16
Speaker 2: haven't really got a lot of people like me who
42:20
Speaker 2: connect with That's why I have my gay community, I
42:22
Speaker 2: have my bedroommates. I kind of have to get little
42:24
Speaker 2: bits and pieces from all over as opposed to being
42:28
Speaker 2: able to sit in one place and get everything that
42:29
Speaker 2: I need. That's what I've probably learned a lot more.
42:33
Speaker 1: Are you literally the only gay commando that's that's public?
42:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, but like I mean statistically at
42:41
Speaker 2: that moment, yes, yeah, and particularly the only gay commander officer,
42:45
Speaker 2: like the only gay special Forces officer in Australia period,
42:50
Speaker 2: which again I find so fascinating and I had I
42:53
Speaker 2: don't want to go down this path, but just from
42:55
Speaker 2: a mindset perspective, you all get it, like I can
42:57
Speaker 2: take it on the ABC. It's meant to be like
42:59
Speaker 2: the biggest friend to the rainbow community. And I'm literally
43:02
Speaker 2: like the only openly gay Special Forces officer in Australia's history.
43:05
Speaker 2: And as opposed to coming in and being a credit
43:08
Speaker 2: to them, they choose to like attack me and pushing
43:10
Speaker 2: and saying with the Marti Grad crew here in Sydney,
43:12
Speaker 2: like I had to take a flaming sword to them
43:14
Speaker 2: last year when they wanted to exclude all uniform police
43:17
Speaker 2: from the parade based on one guy at a uniform
43:20
Speaker 2: murdering his ex boyfriend. You know, it's like, yes, it's
43:23
Speaker 2: these activists as opposed to personally on the side. I
43:28
Speaker 2: get flooded with messages Craig and Tiff by just other
43:31
Speaker 2: gay men who see me as a role model for them,
43:34
Speaker 2: just because I present a different way of being gay
43:38
Speaker 2: where I'm not fully defined by my identity, isn't fully
43:42
Speaker 2: defined by my sexuality, and that is what I wish
43:45
Speaker 2: I had for the fifteen years I was trying to
43:47
Speaker 2: figure out what gay was. So yeah, you just got
43:52
Speaker 2: to again that shift from wanting to be popular with everyone. Yes,
44:00
Speaker 2: just I get most frustrated by a lack of opportunity
44:04
Speaker 2: when there's like potential there. You know, I could be
44:07
Speaker 2: turning all these things into good things and helping, you know,
44:10
Speaker 2: mend the rift between I don't know, like I get
44:12
Speaker 2: more support from the straight community. It's hilarious the amount
44:15
Speaker 2: of straight guys reach out like, hey, mate, no homo,
44:18
Speaker 2: but I think you bring inspirational and thanks bro.
44:21
Speaker 1: No. I imagine starting a message with no homo.
44:25
Speaker 2: But that's fine, I said some screenshots on day the
44:29
Speaker 2: amount of misters I have heyesto, no homo, but.
44:34
Speaker 1: I go we still hey, hat a little bit unsure,
44:38
Speaker 1: but you know that's where i'd start, could be well, there.
44:41
Speaker 2: Are some of those messages too, mate, it's like heyes,
44:44
Speaker 2: like I've never thought i'd been gay, but some I'm
44:46
Speaker 2: really attracted to you. I was like, cool, mate, have
44:48
Speaker 2: a good day.
44:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's hilarious.
44:53
Speaker 2: That's the word of information I don't really need, but
44:54
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
44:56
Speaker 1: So fucking funny.
44:58
Speaker 2: We're going to wind up. I want to know. I
45:02
Speaker 2: want to know.
45:04
Speaker 1: Probably fame's not the right word, but you're in the
45:07
Speaker 1: ballpark of fame, like you're well known. Is that good?
45:12
Speaker 2: Is that bad? Do you fucking hate it? Do you
45:14
Speaker 2: like it?
45:15
Speaker 1: Is it practically good because it gives you leverage?
45:17
Speaker 2: But how do you feel about that? Great question? Mate,
45:21
Speaker 2: Because there was a period where I wanted to be famous.
45:24
Speaker 2: There was a period where, particularly when I won the
45:27
Speaker 2: Royal Commission, and I had nearly every political part except
45:30
Speaker 2: for the Greens, you know, offer me to run for
45:32
Speaker 2: the Senate Bornham and things like that, and I'm lucky
45:36
Speaker 2: that I didn't become famous, because I probably would have
45:38
Speaker 2: self destructed. And having gone through what I've been through
45:42
Speaker 2: has been a real big wake up call. And it's
45:44
Speaker 2: been that old the struggle between entitlement and responsibility, and
45:48
Speaker 2: you know, whatever I do, whatever my profile is, as
45:51
Speaker 2: long as I can use it responsibly, that's what matters.
45:54
Speaker 2: But there is a lot to be said, particularly in Australia,
45:57
Speaker 2: where the more public you are, the less enjoyable life
46:00
Speaker 2: is because we do make mistakes. And my experiences at
46:04
Speaker 2: the ABC have lifted me. Going. Fuck if I stumble
46:07
Speaker 2: out of a club but like three or four o'clock
46:08
Speaker 2: in the morning and you know, some guy takes a
46:11
Speaker 2: picture or video on his iPhone, you know I'll get plasted.
46:15
Speaker 2: But now I'm like, who cares, I'm fucking human and
46:17
Speaker 2: I'm having fun. You know you're not going to You're
46:19
Speaker 2: not going to see me beating up anyone in the park.
46:21
Speaker 2: I'll just be dripping over my own feet. But yeah,
46:24
Speaker 2: and it's also been interesting, crazy because someone had this
46:28
Speaker 2: conversation the other day, like the reason why a lot
46:30
Speaker 2: of people don't understand even though a famous piece like
46:33
Speaker 2: I'm not a sports star I'm not a movie star,
46:35
Speaker 2: I'm not anything. You know. My sort of small levels
46:38
Speaker 2: of fame have come from just you know, social campaigns
46:42
Speaker 2: and things like that, and it doesn't fit into a
46:44
Speaker 2: box of fame that people are used to, so people
46:47
Speaker 2: don't understand it. And I think I enjoy that. And
46:50
Speaker 2: that's my whole thing, is like, you don't need to
46:52
Speaker 2: be anything special other than like who you are, and
46:55
Speaker 2: you know, act on what you believe in. I think
46:57
Speaker 2: that's the most powerful message and I'd like to be
47:00
Speaker 2: more inspirational in that regard than you know, famous. Famous
47:04
Speaker 2: is definitely you know, I think that's an objective that
47:08
Speaker 2: we shouldn't focus on. Fame is like a self serving objective.
47:11
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I'm with you. I think the idea
47:15
Speaker 1: of fame ain't the fucking reality of it, and I think.
47:18
Speaker 2: It doesn't play the bills made.
47:21
Speaker 1: I think also, like especially now sound like an old person,
47:26
Speaker 1: fuck it, But I think we confuse popularity, even which
47:30
Speaker 1: is a popularity with love. It's like some of the
47:34
Speaker 1: people that I've coached over the years, who are you know,
47:37
Speaker 1: really well known household names some of them, some of
47:41
Speaker 1: them you know, gorgeous, wealthy, famous, fucking miserable, like away
47:48
Speaker 1: from the razzle dazzle, like can't sleep, you know, medicative
47:52
Speaker 1: for anxiety and depression life. So the you know, from
47:56
Speaker 1: the outside looking in razzle dazzle, but the inside out
47:59
Speaker 1: you know dogs not everyone of course, but you know,
48:02
Speaker 1: we have this idea that wow, if I could have
48:04
Speaker 1: that and be there and you know, and then you
48:07
Speaker 1: get there because you're trying to feel you know, emotional
48:11
Speaker 1: and psychological or sociological holes with a fucking new face
48:16
Speaker 1: or some bigger biceps, or a new motorbike in my case,
48:19
Speaker 1: because I'm an insecure idiot. So if I get all
48:22
Speaker 1: the motorbikes just for if anyone wants to know, it
48:25
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You know, it works a bit for you,
48:28
Speaker 1: though Chiff doesn't.
48:30
Speaker 3: It's working quite well until you said that.
48:33
Speaker 2: I think it's sitting down. The biggest body of work
48:36
Speaker 2: I think I've had to do myself is sitting down
48:38
Speaker 2: and figuring out what actually makes me happy. Now I
48:40
Speaker 2: know the stoics, so you're not meant to chase happiness.
48:42
Speaker 2: But like otherwise, I'm a person who's used to chasing
48:45
Speaker 2: success off achievements, and it's just an endless string and
48:50
Speaker 2: when I got to La or a US. I have
48:52
Speaker 2: great friends that are billionaires and all the rest, and
48:54
Speaker 2: some of them are very happy. And I've seen other
48:56
Speaker 2: people where all the money in the world just brings
48:58
Speaker 2: more problems in the world, brings more responsibilities in the world.
49:01
Speaker 2: So I think it's for me. It's been getting back
49:04
Speaker 2: to values, love, languages, understanding what actually makes you happy.
49:07
Speaker 2: One day we're all going to be old and saggy.
49:09
Speaker 2: So while you enjoy your body while you can, but
49:11
Speaker 2: it comes down to the personality and how you treat people,
49:15
Speaker 2: you know, because karma is a bit and she remembers
49:17
Speaker 2: and slaps hard. So yeah, I think a really important
49:20
Speaker 2: thing has been defining what actually makes you happy, and
49:23
Speaker 2: it can't be something you know, continuously extrinsic and achieving.
49:26
Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm not a motorbike fan man, but
49:29
Speaker 2: there's only so many motorikes you can get made exactly.
49:32
Speaker 2: And when he said if I had a bad experience
49:35
Speaker 2: with a motorbike once, I was riding on my mate's
49:37
Speaker 2: farm down in Park's Peak Hill and about five pilmers
49:42
Speaker 2: from home. I laid it on inside, cut the fuel
49:44
Speaker 2: line and had to wearing a single cut myself up
49:47
Speaker 2: and had to push this bike back five k's and
49:51
Speaker 2: I pushed it through the fucking horse paddock and got
49:54
Speaker 2: attacked by the fucking horses and everything. That day, I've
49:57
Speaker 2: only ever ridden the quad bike. I don't do motorbikes,
49:59
Speaker 2: to do quad bikes.
50:01
Speaker 1: And he definitely doesn't do horses. And by the way,
50:04
Speaker 1: if you're a horse.
50:05
Speaker 2: I like, mate, I like horses. I appreciated that I
50:10
Speaker 2: interrupted their domain, but as a fourteen year old kid,
50:15
Speaker 2: I was in a world of and I was so
50:17
Speaker 2: embarrassed and everything. Yeah, so that's my mobile story now, mate,
50:22
Speaker 2: I don't know.
50:23
Speaker 1: I love chatting to you. I wish we could have
50:24
Speaker 1: you on a regular basis, but you're too famous, do it.
50:28
Speaker 2: Mate, I've got plenty of sightless to it. Mister seventeen
50:31
Speaker 2: hundred podcasts.
50:33
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just and when you said old and saggy,
50:35
Speaker 1: I didn't take it personally like.
50:38
Speaker 2: I said, I've been hearing your ads pumping on other podcasts.
50:41
Speaker 2: You're doing well, so keep up with the work, right.
50:43
Speaker 1: I'm no you, mate, but I do what I can
50:45
Speaker 1: just quickly. If I don't know if you want any
50:47
Speaker 1: more followers or people to connect with you, but if
50:50
Speaker 1: per chance people want to follow you on the interwebs,
50:53
Speaker 1: how do they do that?
50:54
Speaker 2: Do it my website Heston Russell dot com especially for
50:57
Speaker 2: me to come and speak or I'll be on my
50:58
Speaker 2: book there soon and then mainly my Instagram, So I
51:01
Speaker 2: don't want to check much else. It's just at Heston
51:03
Speaker 2: Russell to U. S is two l's you've got with
51:08
Speaker 2: no Homo, So we'll go from there.
51:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no Homo and he'll definitely lean in funk.
51:13
Speaker 1: I wish I could use that as the title, but
51:15
Speaker 1: somebody's going to kick up.
51:16
Speaker 2: Na I don't. It's not worth it.
51:18
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, that's might fucking that might be my last
51:23
Speaker 1: day on the Nova platform?
51:24
Speaker 2: Where did harps go? And who knows? Take no Homo?
51:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you say it, surely I'm allowed to use
51:33
Speaker 1: it as a title.
51:35
Speaker 2: Do we know up to you? Do we know the
51:37
Speaker 2: name of the Yeah, it's called Heston Russell and Unconventional
51:41
Speaker 2: Perspective and it's got a little subtitle that says Special
51:45
Speaker 2: Forces Sexuality and Suicide. I think we spoke about it.
51:47
Speaker 2: This is what when I had that plotty with you, Tip,
51:50
Speaker 2: I think you actually use that as the title. So yeah,
51:53
Speaker 2: it's broad ranging me but at Heston Russell and unconventional perspective,
51:57
Speaker 2: because again, what I've learned is all our lives. It's
52:01
Speaker 2: just our own perspective, and the story is mine. People
52:03
Speaker 2: might not agree with it, and it's a pretty controversial
52:05
Speaker 2: shit now and I can't wait.
52:07
Speaker 1: Well, I'm writing that down because that might be both
52:10
Speaker 1: the title of your book and the title of this episode.
52:12
Speaker 1: Well see, hey, mate, we say goodbye, but you're the best.
52:15
Speaker 1: We've both got a big brush on. I hope I.
52:17
Speaker 2: Can really appreciate it.
52:20
Speaker 1: I've got a big crush on. No, fuck it, I
52:22
Speaker 1: could be I'm not because I'm shipped with women. So
52:26
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm the lowest to the party, gay guy and.
52:30
Speaker 2: Who never found the right one? Mate, just haven't found
52:32
Speaker 2: the right one. That's it. Don't chase the track. That's
52:34
Speaker 2: the new mantorer. Don't chase track.
52:36
Speaker 1: Okay, note to self. Cool, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Heston, thank.
52:40
Speaker 2: You, Thanks Greg and Tiff. Take care