Latest / Spacious Success / 032 | Motherhood, Matrescence and the Making of a New Self, with Amanda Delosa

Transcript

032 | Motherhood, Matrescence and the Making of a New Self, with Amanda Delosa · Spacious Success

• 0:05
  Hi, I'm Dr. Christy Goodwin, a neuro performance scientist, speaker and executive coach who learned the hard way that chasing success can come at a cost.
• 0:16
  After burnout landed me in hospital, I made it my mission to help ambitious women who are done trading their health and happiness for high performance.
• 0:27
  On Spacious Success, I share science-backed strategies and real stories to help you flourish as a female at work and beyond so you can stop paying the success tax.
• 0:41
  Before we even hit record on the official interview, Amanda and I had been talking for about 15 minutes.
• 0:47
  catching up, comparing notes, the usual pre-podcast chatter.
• 0:51
  But somewhere in the middle of that supposedly off-the-record warm-up, I'd hit record, and she said something so honest and so good that I knew I couldn't cut it.
• 1:02
  And thankfully, Amanda gave me permission to share it.
• 1:04
  So I didn't.
• 1:05
  The conversation that you're about to hear starts right there, mid-thought, tangents and all, because that's genuinely how it happened.
• 1:14
  If today feels a little less structured than usual, a little bit more like you're eavesdropping on two friends who have gone off script, well, it's because you are.
• 1:23
  Stay with it.
• 1:24
  It's some of the most honest talk about what becoming a mother has meant for someone that I've ever heard anyone share or recorded on this show.
• 1:35
  My guest today is Amanda DeLosa, a communications strategist who spent more than 15 years helping founders, executives and creators become the unmistakable choice in their industry.
• 1:47
  Before founding Yellow Panda, one of Australia's leading boutique PR and personal branding agencies, she worked inside the federal government's media team, shaping public narratives for national campaigns.
• 2:06
  News Corp, Smart Company, B&T Magazine and Business News Australia.
• 2:11
  And she now hosts her own podcast, Next Season, spelled NXT, SZN, a globally followed show for ambitious women designing their next season without compromise.
• 2:25
  None of that is really what today is about, though.
• 2:28
  Today is about what happened when Amanda became a mother and the identity that she had to rebuild from scratch off the record and then on.
• 2:38
  Here's the conversation.
• 2:40
  Just talking about your journey into motherhood, how that basically cracked you open, that whole idea of matricence, like being that transition from...
• 2:50
  maiden to a mother and what does success as a mother look like?
• 2:54
  And I really, I so applauded the post that you shared last week about, and I know it's really controversial to say this, but I applaud that you said it.
• 3:03
  And I'm like, yes, that when he steps in, like relationships don't work when two people are competing for time and two people are busy, they don't.
• 3:12
  And when you said that success in this season is you stepping into more of a trad mum wife role for that period,
• 3:19
  Like that is what success looks like.
• 3:21
  I just think women almost need permission to say, well, what does success look like to me?
• 3:24
  Not necessarily emulating what everybody else is doing.
• 3:27
  Yeah.
• 3:28
  That's bold.
• 3:30
  I applaud that.
• 3:31
  Did you get any backlash?
• 3:34
  No, I wouldn't say I got any backlash, but I just feel like, you know, the timing of us having this conversation around this, I've been immersed in this particular topic all weekend long because, and it's funny, just before, you know, coming in this morning, as I was getting ready, I actually pulled up one of Elena Cardone's podcast interviews.
• 3:54
  because I think she's a really good model for me of the type of woman that I want to be in terms of the type of relationship I want and the mission, the same sense and shared mission that I have with her, which is for her and her husband to grow a family empire together, which they've done extremely well.
• 4:10
  But listening to her podcast this morning and hearing how she grew up hyper-independent and really struggled with the idea of being
• 4:21
  dependent on her husband because we're taught in society and there's been this propaganda for a long long time that we can't be dependent that codependency is is toxic yeah but if you can't trust your marriage and to be in leadership and partnership as a team and depend on them then why would you even get married in the first place and she said this quote that said um
• 4:47
  you know besides him i can be the greatest version of myself or i can be you know and and that's the thing like we should be looking at our partnerships and our marriages as the ultimate unlock to actually being the best version of ourselves and not being in competition and not not thinking that being dependent on each other is wrong or toxic there's yeah there's that's the thing there's just so much information out there particularly online like
• 5:12
  If a woman's having a bad day, her algorithm on Instagram will literally pick up on that.
• 5:18
  And because it's wanting you to stay on there longer, it's going to continue feeding you the toxic stuff to keep you going down the rabbit hole of thinking that there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with your relationship.
• 5:33
  It's a constant struggle to pull yourself out of that and actually look at what is the bigger term?
• 5:38
  What is the end goal?
• 5:39
  What are we actually building?
• 5:42
  And it comes down to instant gratification, right?
• 5:44
  Because instant gratification says, oh, but right now I feel like I don't want to be the supporting person and I want my own thing or I wish my husband was around more, whatever it might be, or I need more attention.
• 5:55
  Right?
• 5:56
  But, you know, that can come after you've shared the life that you want.
• 5:59
  But unfortunately, we do live in a world where everyone wants everything that they feel now and no one's willing to put the work in.
• 6:06
  And so, yeah, a very interesting time to talk to you about this because I feel like I've been really immersed in this particular, like, key part.
• 6:15
  And one thing that was interesting about Elena was she actually said that it wasn't until they hit the four-year mark in their marriage where she realized that she had to upgrade her old operating system.
• 6:23
  And I had this conversation with Jack yesterday.
• 6:26
  I said, what I think I really struggle with still is the old Amanda, prior to being a mother to Ariella and your wife and joining forces to create an empire together, had this operating system of not wanting or needing anyone to survive because I have a history of...
• 6:44
  some very bad abandonment issues and trust issues and all this kind of thing.
• 6:49
  So I'm bringing in my old operating system.
• 6:52
  I'm having a real struggle with the word surrender or support or I think some of the other words is be submissive, right?
• 7:03
  Being submissive to your husband is seen as such a toxic, degrading, illogical thing to do as a woman and,
• 7:14
  But it is also the biggest thing that's holding us back from being able to be a true power couple and powerhouse and build together.
• 7:22
  If you can't trust their leadership and what they're wanting, like you can't trust that they want the best for you, then like you're just that that friction is just always going to be there.
• 7:32
  Like you're never going to fill up peace in the relationship.
• 7:35
  I just need to hit stop.
• 7:36
  We just recorded the episode before we started.
• 7:39
  That was so good.
• 7:40
  What you said about like relationships have to be leadership and partnership and that whole redefinition of what it means, like what does it mean to be like you had all those S's there.
• 7:52
  That's golden.
• 7:53
  And I...
• 7:54
  I think it's a really bold and necessary conversation that people need to have because I agree people, I think a lot of women are carrying old paradigms like old operating systems into modern relationships.
• 8:05
  And no wonder so many relationships are failing.
• 8:07
  Like there are cake paradigms that don't work in 2025.
• 8:12
  Are you happy to go if we go off down this path?
• 8:17
  Yeah, I'm happy.
• 8:18
  Have you been recording any of this to start with?
• 8:20
  This has been recorded, yes.
• 8:22
  Yeah, you can, I mean, you can even use some of these.
• 8:25
  I think so.
• 8:26
  I think just, yeah, anything.
• 8:28
  I'm an open book with this sort of stuff.
• 8:30
  Like I'm really passionate about it because like, as you say, it's the relationship and it's also the woman.
• 8:36
  Because the woman's constantly at war of herself, but like knowing the kind of, you know, woman and wife and mother she needs to show up as, but then feeling the fear of, but no, I need to be this other version because like, what if it doesn't work out?
• 8:49
  What if I, you know, lose my independence and I pay the price for it?
• 8:52
  Like she's at war within herself.
• 8:54
  That takes so much emotional energy.
• 8:57
  Huge.
• 8:57
  This is how we're putting extra stuff on our plate, essentially.
• 9:01
  Surrendering doesn't need to be an act of being a loser.
• 9:06
  Surrendering is actually going, I'm just going to choose one or the other.
• 9:12
  For me, that's been my battle has been stuck between the two worlds.
• 9:17
  And I've literally just spent this weekend ruminating over, you know, what needs to change.
• 9:23
  And it ultimately comes down to like pick whatever version of yourself you want to show up as and actually put the work into being that person.
• 9:31
  And it's not going to happen overnight because Elena was saying on this podcast I was listening to this morning.
• 9:35
  She was saying that she's, I think, 54 or something now, but she was saying, it wasn't even until her 50s, that she stopped feeling the need for constant validation and, well, not constant validation, but she didn't stop feeling the need for validation and, like, reassurance until she hit 50.
• 9:53
  Because as women, we kind of want that, but when we go into these roles where we're supporting, you know, men that want to lead...
• 10:00
  Like often there's a lot of the invisible labor and stuff that goes on in the background.
• 10:05
  There's a lot of like we feed them ideas that they then go and implement like in their business or, you know, particularly if they're business minded that we don't get credit for.
• 10:13
  So there's a lot of like you just don't get over that.
• 10:16
  And I even found out this other thing.
• 10:17
  You're probably across this as well.
• 10:19
  But there's an actual addiction that you can get to needing that like constant validation and recognition.
• 10:25
  Oh, absolutely.
• 10:26
  Like it's wired into your like psychological profiling from a young age.
• 10:30
  I think a lot of, again, really accomplished, ambitious women get hooked on external validation and praise.
• 10:37
  You know, you're the good girl phenomenon when you were little, then you get the awards and accolades at school, then you get the job and the promotions and all the titles that come along with it.
• 10:46
  And you get conditioned that that's what success looks like for you.
• 10:49
  So I think
• 10:50
  I often say to people, like, what are your metrics of success?
• 10:53
  And success looks different in every single season of life.
• 10:57
  And that's why I really loved what you shared.
• 10:58
  Like, in this season, while Ariella is still little, you know, your work's evolving, this is what's successful.
• 11:05
  And for us, like, again, we don't have to emulate what other people are doing.
• 11:09
  I think taking the time, I love, this is a great conversation.
• 11:12
  Yeah.
• 11:15
  I just remembered the actual title.
• 11:17
  So it's intermittent reinforcement addiction.
• 11:19
  And they say that it's the same as gambling addiction, drug addiction.
• 11:22
  That's what it does is your dopamine five.
• 11:24
  So when you're getting reinforcement, you feel high.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:27
  And everything's great.
• 11:28
  Your blood's, you know, your brain's flooding with all of those feel-good chemicals.
• 11:32
  And then when it goes away, aka, I went through this experience myself.
• 11:36
  We have just been traveling.
• 11:37
  We've been spending a lot of time together.
• 11:39
  I had a really good week when we first got back to Sydney.
• 11:41
  You know, everything's on fire.
• 11:42
  And then Jack had a really big, heavy week of delivery in the business, of which I felt a bit lonely.
• 11:49
  I wasn't getting much, you know, feedback or anything because he was so depleted, right, and he was so focused.
• 11:53
  Yeah.
• 11:54
  Um, and so all of the neurons that I had stored up in my brain started to die.
• 11:59
  And then I also was becoming quite exhausted from the work that I was doing in my supporter role.
• 12:02
  And then by Friday, say Saturday, like I collapsed in a heap and got like turned into an emotional mess.
• 12:09
  Um, yeah.
• 12:10
  because of that, but I didn't know that that's what it was at the time.
• 12:13
  So the brain goes searching, you know, when you're low, it goes back into, I guess, like being a child, it goes back into the fear mode, it goes back into like, you know, like I just spiraled essentially.
• 12:24
  And then I came out of it and I came back into my rather, you know, rational adult mind.
• 12:29
  And I'm like, what just happened?
• 12:31
  And so I start reading into it because like, I'm so fascinated about how this stuff works, right?
• 12:35
  There's got to be an explanation behind why I just like completely lost myself.
• 12:40
  Again.
• 12:42
  And, yeah, and that's what I came across.
• 12:44
  I came across this intermittent reinforcement addiction.
• 12:46
  I'm like, yep, 100% would have that because of my childhood trauma patterns.
• 12:49
  You know, that's what I've always done.
• 12:51
  I've always tried to be the good girl, tried to be the perfectionist, tried to work hard.
• 12:55
  You know, I lied about my age at 13 and a half to go get my first job.
• 12:58
  I found that going into a workplace is where I actually felt really validated and important.
• 13:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:03
  So when I have weeks where I'm doing the important work that is otherwise very invisible to most people around you, and let's just say too, I shouldn't be asking for pats on the back for that sort of stuff.
• 13:13
  Jack's not coming home from work and asking to be patted on the back for running, you know, multiple companies and all that sort of thing.
• 13:19
  But like there's a part of me who has an unhealthy, we'll call it an addiction or like an obsession with being praised.
• 13:27
  Because praise to me growing up meant that I was loved.
• 13:31
  Right.
• 13:31
  And I had to think about, okay, Amanda, logical adult brain.
• 13:34
  What are the other things that you can look at that actually show that there's love?
• 13:38
  Like look at the love languages.
• 13:39
  Like if you bring coffee in every morning, he makes you all drink water because he knows I'm terrible with water.
• 13:44
  You know, like there was all these other acts of service and love going on around me, even in that busy period that I was blind to because all I was focused on is am I getting enough recognition for me?
• 13:55
  Yeah.
• 13:56
  You know, a partner in all of this.
• 13:58
  Yeah.
• 13:59
  And you said something there.
• 14:00
  I don't know if you remember, you said it's the invisible and important work.
• 14:04
  And that duality is hard, especially if you've been used to, again, for a lot of women, if you came from a corporate background, you had KPIs, you know, you had really tangible metrics of your success.
• 14:15
  At the end of the day, you're like, I have nailed it.
• 14:17
  Like I've done X, Y, and Z.
• 14:19
  And then in the role that you're currently in, you may not have those overt metrics.
• 14:25
  And then that's such a, like up against that intermittent variable reward pattern that your brain's just so used to giving you the praise for those things.
• 14:33
  Literally is a withdrawal, like a withdrawal from something that your brain has been conditioned to crave.
• 14:39
  It is.
• 14:39
  And an interesting thing is I actually did like another, because, you know, I love doing time audits.
• 14:43
  I like looking at, you know, like where I'm spending my time and what I'm doing so I can optimize more time to do things that actually fill my cup.
• 14:49
  And, you know, it's no secret.
• 14:51
  It's out there that I obviously get support with Ariella in terms of having nannings and babysitters and that sort of thing, helping from time to time.
• 14:57
  But still, the current schedule that I've been on, and it changes all the time, whether we're traveling or in Sydney and that sort of thing.
• 15:03
  But I'm doing roughly about 38 hours of, you know, solo parenting with her when Jack's busy or I'm not having a nanny come in support at the moment.
• 15:13
  So a 38-hour week to most people is a normal full-time job.
• 15:16
  So that in itself, like just the one-on-one time I spend with Ariella looking after her is a full-time role.
• 15:22
  And then I'm also wanting to try and have like my own free time and work on my business and like whatever else it might be.
• 15:32
  The 38 hours I used to spend full-time in the workforce, I would get all of those things that I needed.
• 15:36
  But then after the 38 hours, like you're already so depleted, you know, that's, that's been my thing.
• 15:43
  It's like,
• 15:45
  it's such a struggle because I don't want to give up any more than 38 hours.
• 15:48
  I love spending time with her.
• 15:50
  So like that's enough for me.
• 15:51
  I don't want to outsource myself seven days a week.
• 15:53
  Like I want to spend, like it's so important, but I don't get that same feedback and I don't get that same feeling for looking after a toddler as I did.
• 16:03
  And so again, it's like operating system.
• 16:05
  Like I need to train myself to actually, um,
• 16:09
  have the same feeling of accomplishment and like self-love and I guess, you know, praising myself for, and also being very grateful that I'm in a position where I have a husband that I can spend 38 hours a week or more or less or whatever I want to do with my child, because there's so many moms who don't have that privilege.
• 16:29
  And that's such a powerful reframe.
• 16:32
  So I think two things there you said, and I love and I encourage other people.
• 16:35
  We've just dived in, by the way.
• 16:38
  We went in with a big splash.
• 16:41
  I think, again, clarifying, like, what are your success metrics?
• 16:45
  Because, again, I work with a lot of women who get to the top and realise they've climbed the wrong mountain.
• 16:50
  And they're like...
• 16:51
  my goodness, this doesn't feel great.
• 16:53
  Like I thought I'd be euphoric, you know, on the surface from an optics perspective, I've got all of the things, whatever they were that you were hankering, and yet they feel empty or this was not what they were expecting.
• 17:04
  So I think knowing what success looks like and the second thing, and my beautiful EA who tragically passed away used to constantly remind me of this.
• 17:13
  Karen always used to say to me, what does success in this season of your life look like?
• 17:19
  And I think that's just a powerful reminder because success goes through nuances and iterations, like it varies.
• 17:27
  And I think when you're clear on those things...
• 17:29
  then you can start to get, you know, that dopamine that you hanker from the sources that will provide it and that peace of mind, knowing that this is what success for me and our family unit in this season of life looks like.
• 17:41
  And it's not a tattoo.
• 17:43
  It's not permanent.
• 17:44
  But I think it would be helpful to have the tattoo or to have it on a sign because that's my problem.
• 17:51
  That is like I know what success looks like to me in this season, but it's in those moments of weakness when I'm depleted
• 17:59
  that I lose focus on that and I start to go into victim mode or pull me mode.
• 18:04
  Yeah.
• 18:05
  That's also your wiring of going back to my needs aren't being met, like that fundamental need of being acknowledged and rewarded and praised that I used to get the dopamine hit from, I'm not getting it.
• 18:17
  So I think it's also to acknowledge that it's okay to feel like that too.
• 18:22
  I completely did not recognise who I was anymore.
• 18:26
  It was a complete collapse of every identity I'd ever built up throughout 38 years of my life.
• 18:33
  Yeah, and do you find it happened suddenly?
• 18:35
  Like it was like...
• 18:37
  almost an instant feeling or was it more of a gradual transition?
• 18:40
  No, it's a gradual transition because I think what happened to me was I had spent three decades living on the Gold Coast, fell in love with Jack, moved to Sydney to build a life with Jack, fell pregnant within the first month of that period.
• 18:55
  I was still running my business.
• 18:57
  There was just so much going on at once that I guess the adrenaline of, you know, doing all of these things and having so much change.
• 19:03
  Like I love change and I love adventure and, you know, things being different as much as I love on a walking contradiction though, because I do love consistency as well.
• 19:12
  But I think just, um,
• 19:14
  Being sort of stuck in that whirlwind of all that stuff going on initially.
• 19:17
  And then obviously like having your first child and being so in love, being in the love bubble.
• 19:21
  And then Jack took four weeks off to be at home with me and Ariella.
• 19:26
  It wasn't probably until he went back to work and it wasn't until, um,
• 19:32
  he then got more involved in work because he stepped back in as the active CEO role of the company, a company that at the time he was going into really turn around and grow and expand.
• 19:42
  So I would say it would be the first six months.
• 19:48
  I was kind of still in this bubble, but it was when like reality had set in all, okay, you're a mother now and,
• 19:59
  you're kind of you know having to navigate who you are as an individual that it really hit home and then obviously was very much impacted by the the hormones and everything that were going on as well I had I had no idea someone who was never I would never classify myself as being a hormonal type of woman before having a child I would never know my period was coming and going like I was just so like
• 20:23
  emotionally regulated all the time obviously operating a lot in my masculine as well um but yeah it was the extreme drops and uh sitting and sobbing for hours and just feeling so upset and so miserable but at the same time hating myself because like why am i miserable like i've got everything i've ever wanted
• 20:44
  I've got the man of my dreams.
• 20:45
  I've got a child.
• 20:47
  I'm being looked after.
• 20:49
  I live in a place that I've always wanted to live.
• 20:52
  I had everything I ever wanted, but I was miserable.
• 20:55
  I really could not understand how I got there.
• 20:59
  I thought, you literally feel like you're going crazy.
• 21:02
  And I also think in the absence of a community, like the village that we would have once had with other women, you know, you moved to Sydney all of a sudden, so I don't know whether you'd established like that network, especially of I'm sure you had friends, but not necessarily friends that were mothers.
• 21:16
  I think that, you know, postpartum hormone chaos is a very real phenomenon that we often dismiss.
• 21:23
  And we, again, because we're good at pushing through or finding a solution or working our way through things.
• 21:29
  And it is exactly what it is, that massive transition that is matricence.
• 21:33
  So, you know, it is the equivalent, if not more so, of what adolescence is.
• 21:37
  And yet no one talks openly about that massive portal and change.
• 21:44
  So I think we need to be having these conversations.
• 21:46
  And I think ambitious, accomplished women need to hear that it's okay and you're not alone, although you may be alone.
• 21:55
  I think those transparent conversations about what that transition to motherhood looks like for women who are in many ways, I'm going to say it, addicted to chaos and addicted to the dopamine hits that we get from those intermittent variable rewards.
• 22:12
  addicted to praise and then moving into a season of their life that looks so vastly different to what they're accustomed to and often without the support in the village that they once had.
• 22:23
  And I think even with the support in the village, you know, I've got a very, very supportive husband.
• 22:28
  Yes.
• 22:29
  Um,
• 22:30
  They can't do it for you.
• 22:31
  Like Jack has said so many times and I've been struggling, like if I could do it for you, if I could fix it, if I could change it, like I would, but you can't.
• 22:37
  Like the hardest thing about this period is the only person who can actually pull yourself out of it is yourself.
• 22:44
  And at a time when you're so depleted and you don't have energy and your brain's not working in your favour, like it is seriously like the hardest thing I have ever been through.
• 22:52
  And I have survived so much of my life.
• 22:55
  You know, it's just, it's navigating this period has been really, really tough.
• 23:00
  Yeah.
• 23:01
  And I think it is tough for everyone, but I think some people just, that's why you say we need to have this conversation.
• 23:05
  Some people don't actually name it or know what it is.
• 23:08
  So I think they kind of, they stay in it because like until you can diagnose what it is, until you actually can put a label on what it is.
• 23:14
  For me, I know that I can't then go, okay, that's what it is.
• 23:18
  Let's look at understanding this more so we know how to actually work through it or change it.
• 23:22
  Yeah.
• 23:23
  And I think, I mean, the brain changes remarkably during, you know, pregnancy and postpartum, but we also know that when we're sleep deprived in those early months, even if you've got a relatively good baby, you know, sleep is significantly disrupted if not shattered.
• 23:38
  And when we're exhausted, our prefrontal cortex, you know, the logical thinking part of the brain, it doesn't work.
• 23:44
  Instead, the amygdala takes over, which is the emotional hub of the brain.
• 23:47
  So we're reactive.
• 23:49
  We snap.
• 23:50
  We look and think, who was that that just said that?
• 23:52
  You know, we look in the mirror and think, I don't know this person.
• 23:55
  So I think it's giving ourselves almost grace for those things, too.
• 23:58
  But I agree.
• 24:00
  We need women sharing that this is a very real normal reality.
• 24:04
  I mean, there's no shame and stigma if that's what you're feeling.
• 24:09
  So you've said once before that becoming a mother forced you to slow down, but it also made you more ambitious, but ambitious in a new way.
• 24:17
  What do you think has shifted?
• 24:18
  What do you think has been redefined?
• 24:22
  I think in terms of slowing down, that's the gift of being able to be, I guess, more present.
• 24:29
  And I think the ambition then becomes to be more present and to slow down gives you a chance to actually start to evaluate your life and reconnect with yourself and actually really determine who it is that you want to actually recreate as an express version of yourself.
• 24:44
  And a lot of that comes down to then being able to establish boundaries.
• 24:48
  And I think like becoming a mom, it helps you instill boundaries so much better than you ever did before.
• 24:53
  Yeah.
• 24:54
  You have less time to use, so you've got to be more precious with your time.
• 24:57
  And everything comes down to if this is going to take me away from my family, then do I really want to be doing this?
• 25:07
  And I think the only way to look at that in another light is like, yes, may it take me away from my family now, but...
• 25:15
  But is it going to better the family going forward?
• 25:18
  And that's kind of where I get stuck sometimes.
• 25:20
  Like I need to really pull out and look at the longer term vision because I do get at times very stuck in the moment, in the present, in the morning, the instant gratification side of things.
• 25:29
  So the perspective is probably one of the biggest superpowers to come out of this.
• 25:37
  and like so much more self-reflection because, you know, like sitting up breastfeeding every night, every two hours, when the rest of the world is asleep,
• 25:49
  uh and sitting around particularly in that newborn phase you know before kids start falling walking talking all of that sort of stuff there is so much silence so you do go into your head a lot and it can be a very healthy place to go or it can be a very unhealthy place to go but you spend a lot more time in my head and i was someone who didn't really spend any time in my head because i was always so busy so for me it was like being met with my own thoughts for the first time ever but then also having to really constructively um
• 26:17
  separate the thoughts that were actually helping me against the thoughts that were not.
• 26:24
  And isn't that a lovely reframe that the gift of that time, as uncomfortable as it was, possibly having to confront some of those concepts you've never examined.
• 26:33
  Yeah, I often say our greatest assets as humans are our time, our energy and our attention.
• 26:38
  And you often have a lot of those in those early stages of motherhood.
• 26:44
  It is a huge, massive portal and a massive transition.
• 26:47
  And there's, I think, a lot of unspoken and sometimes very overt, clear pressure on ambitious women to bounce back after having kids physically, often bouncing back straight to work.
• 26:58
  What was it like for you being in that transition of ambition and motherhood sort of colliding at the same time?
• 27:05
  I feel like the hardest thing to bounce back to is like your mental best self.
• 27:11
  I didn't really have an issue with like, you know, the weight just fell off me because I was so anxious all the time because I was trying to figure out what the frick was going on with me.
• 27:21
  I was not very kind to myself.
• 27:22
  Like I didn't eat as much as I should have because I never felt hungry.
• 27:26
  I was always running around, walking around because I was always trying to keep busy, I guess, trying to avoid, you know, like the feelings that I was going up against as well.
• 27:33
  So I think the thing we struggle most with that we don't talk enough about is, you know, like bouncing back to feeling like centered and emotionally regulated and like in control and calm.
• 27:47
  I think that's the biggest thing.
• 27:49
  It's like...
• 27:50
  we talk about the body so much there's so much focus on post you know pre and post baby bodies and we see it in all the celebrity magazines and all the influences and you know like that's that's where the focus lies but it's on like the mental wellness is something that
• 28:07
  I really struggled to bring back.
• 28:10
  And I know that we talked about it, I had you on my show, you know, I'm like, is there any way to shortcut this?
• 28:15
  And there's not because you're up against your body literally leveling out.
• 28:19
  You're up against, as you say, all the changes that are going on in your brain.
• 28:23
  And that's really frustrating, you know?
• 28:25
  Like it's so much easier just to do a calorie deficit and go to the gym to get your body back.
• 28:30
  But how much harder is it to actually feel of same mind again, right?
• 28:35
  Yeah.
• 28:35
  And I think it's a, like, it's the wrong term.
• 28:39
  Like you will never bounce back to your previous version.
• 28:41
  Like you are physiologically, psychologically a different person after you have become a mother, however that happens for you.
• 28:49
  And so I think the whole notion of bouncing back is like, it's wrong and it's misguided and it sets women up for fat, like in so many ways.
• 28:58
  Because we have, and I love how you talk about, we've evolved into the next iteration of ourselves.
• 29:03
  We're evolving into, you know, new paradigms.
• 29:07
  And that's why I think it's so important to circle back to what does success look like now?
• 29:10
  Yeah.
• 29:12
  I think one of the key things you were talking earlier about how you were like cracked open.
• 29:16
  I think parenthood for all of us is, if we embrace it the way that we ideally should, is the ultimate recalibration of our values and priorities.
• 29:26
  As you said, you had to get really granular with how are you spending your time?
• 29:29
  Is it taking you away from family?
• 29:32
  And I think that that, you know, there are they call them temporal landmarks, like really significant moments in our life.
• 29:38
  And becoming a parent is definitely a temporal landmark.
• 29:42
  And I think that's where we start to recalibrate values and priorities.
• 29:45
  If we take, as you said, you did take the time and you went through those uncomfortable stages of examining what your values and priorities are moving forward.
• 29:54
  Yeah.
• 29:55
  Yeah.
• 29:55
  Thank you.
• 29:56
  So you've moved through some changes.
• 29:59
  I don't like the word pivots since you've become a mum.
• 30:02
  How do you think mothers influenced how you are now and the work that you're now embarking on?
• 30:08
  Oh, that's a hard one because one of the biggest challenges I had was trying to find like-minded mothers like me.
• 30:15
  So I think we spoke about this too, but I didn't go to any of the mothers groups because I knew that they wouldn't be my people initially
• 30:25
  And when I say my people, I don't discredit the mums and mothers group at all.
• 30:30
  But I know that for me, what really fills my cup is being around other ambitious women who are talking ideas and are visionaries.
• 30:38
  And I just knew I wouldn't be finding that there.
• 30:42
  And of the mothers that I have come into contact with, probably more so since I started the podcast, because I've kind of, you know, brought people out.
• 30:48
  I don't know who I am and I am and all that sort of thing.
• 30:51
  they share the same thing, but they also didn't go to mothers' groups.
• 30:54
  So this whole, you know, it was like, it was super, super difficult to actually find my community of women.
• 30:59
  And at a time when I'd already left my community, I didn't have that belly drinking around me.
• 31:03
  Like, yeah, like it was a lot harder not having that.
• 31:07
  And, yeah.
• 31:09
  That's just, you know, that in itself is a huge challenge when you feel like so different to everyone else and you have such, yeah, you feel different, you have different problems, you have a different lifestyle, like everything's different.
• 31:24
  Like that's what I've learnt from this period is that I was looking for cookie-cutter approaches and advice, like generalist advice for the season that I was in and the struggles I was having, whereas I actually needed a complete custom-built solution to,
• 31:39
  that reflected my unique position, the lifestyle, my family structure, my husband, the kind of daughter that we want to raise.
• 31:48
  You know, like we are so built by design, like building our life by our design is such a huge value that Jack and I both share.
• 31:58
  That meant that, yeah, the support and the resources and I guess the motherhood tribe didn't kind of exist when I needed it.
• 32:05
  Yeah.
• 32:06
  I love that.
• 32:06
  I often say to people, live a life by design, not default.
• 32:09
  And I think so many people, you know, we were talking earlier about emulating, you know, family life models and ways of living and ways of being that aren't necessarily congruent with their values and their metrics of success.
• 32:23
  So, yeah, I applaud you for doing that.
• 32:26
  You have a fabulous podcast with some awesome guests on it called Next Season.
• 32:31
  You also have a network of women, I'm imagining, through the Entourage and Jack's other businesses that you interact with.
• 32:38
  So you've probably come across lots of stories from ambitious, accomplished women who are pivoting, they're restarting, they're stepping into their next seasons.
• 32:48
  Is there one consistent lesson, like a common denominator, that you've heard from the stories on the interactions you've had with women,
• 32:56
  that you think listeners might find interesting, that you hadn't perhaps predicted?
• 32:59
  One, I guess it took you by surprise.
• 33:03
  This question comes at a good time because Jack and I just got back from spending a bit of time in the US and we attended some really high-level mastermind circles with very successful entrepreneurs.
• 33:14
  I naturally gravitate towards the women.
• 33:16
  So these women who are generally in the business for their husbands, Jack and I are different in that we have our own businesses.
• 33:21
  We still work together and we're still integrated in each other's worlds, but we have separate businesses.
• 33:28
  Whereas these women work with their husbands.
• 33:31
  But
• 33:32
  One piece of advice that has stuck out, particularly when I talk to you about the season I'm in, because these women are generally sort of 10 or 15 years above me, that kids are sort of teenagers or live in the nest, so to speak, is that rather than seeing this period that I've been in as being a setback, it is.
• 33:48
  a period where they've done their best work in recalibrating and figuring out the next best version of themselves.
• 33:55
  That I even had a clairvoyant way back in the day when I was only a few months old, tell me like, you've got to treat this phase for the next couple of years as like an R&D period.
• 34:03
  You're in research and development.
• 34:06
  And so they see it as a blessing.
• 34:08
  They're like, you know, being cracked open and being uncomfortable and scrambling to put yourself back together again is the best blessing you can have, particularly for the women who have strong partners who lead through that.
• 34:21
  Right.
• 34:21
  Because like there would be a bunch of women who don't have the time to even.
• 34:25
  And that's also a blessing and a curse, right?
• 34:27
  To have the actual time to sit and wallow and feel in front of the restructure can be a curse because you're spending way too much time kind of sometimes being a victim and self-absorbed in your own mess.
• 34:36
  But think about the women who literally have to throw their children into daycare at six weeks and go straight back to work.
• 34:41
  Yeah.
• 34:42
  You know, they wouldn't have the privilege and the luxury of having this period to actually figure it out.
• 34:47
  So they stay kind of stuck, you know, in that mode then forever.
• 34:52
  And perhaps they'll never visit it.
• 34:53
  And that's okay for them because they'll never, you know, feel there's a problem to address because life just goes on.
• 34:58
  But for those of us who are actually given the gift of this period to just like sit in it and work our way through, it's like we don't talk about bouncing back.
• 35:08
  It's like, let's look at it as a slingshot.
• 35:10
  Oh, I love that.
• 35:11
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  into that next best version of you yeah that's got i'm going to use that slingshot analogy and acknowledge that it's yours um that is really good because even i mean falling back bouncing back like yeah anyway not a very nice connotation i like the idea of being slung shot it's much much sexier
• 35:32
  Now, you recently shared an Instagram post about what success and partnership looks like for you and your husband in this season that you're both currently in and how your partnership requires you to sometimes step into trad wife mode at times.
• 35:48
  I applauded it.
• 35:50
  I commented.
• 35:51
  I truly applaud your honesty.
• 35:53
  And I wonder if there's anything, I know we spoke earlier about this and that was sort of the catalyst for our beginning of the conversation, but is there anything you want to elaborate on?
• 36:02
  What are we missing?
• 36:04
  Why do you think it's so taboo for women to acknowledge that they do at times want to step into that?
• 36:09
  I saw a great meme on social media the other day and said that women are contorting themselves.
• 36:15
  They're trying to parent like it's still the 1950s and they're working like it's 2025.
• 36:20
  And they said that women are, and they are, I mean, there's overwhelming research.
• 36:25
  This is why I've done this podcast, because we have this pronounced gender well-being gap with more women than men experiencing stress, exhaustion and burnout.
• 36:33
  And I'm wondering if that yearning for, and I think many people, you know, I've had conversations in recent times with friends saying, oh,
• 36:40
  sometimes I wish I could be a trad wife.
• 36:42
  It's really appealing.
• 36:44
  What is it, do you think, that's underneath that undercurrent and anything else you want to share from that perspective?
• 36:50
  I think the main thing is that it's seen as a submissive mood.
• 36:54
  So, sorry, I would say that the main thing is it's seen as a submissive mood in that it's a woman sort of,
• 37:04
  moving away from all the things that society and propaganda over the years has told them not to do.
• 37:10
  So it's do not rely on anyone.
• 37:12
  You need to be successful.
• 37:14
  You need to make your own money.
• 37:15
  You need to have your own choices.
• 37:17
  You always need to be prepared to go it alone if your husband leaves you or, you know, it's just all fear mongering, which, you know, I've looked into it and it was literally to get more women in the workforce and to have, you know, like to stimulate the economy and that sort of thing.
• 37:35
  So there's this big propaganda thing.
• 37:36
  There's this big negative connotation around like being a supportive role in a relationship, aka trad wife, because what if...
• 37:44
  And the biggest problem with this mindset is that you're in a relationship if you're operating from here saying, I don't fully trust my husband.
• 37:53
  I don't trust the leadership.
• 37:54
  I don't trust that he's doing it for the right reasons.
• 37:56
  I don't trust that he wants to set us up financially.
• 37:58
  I don't trust that he really wants to be a provider.
• 38:00
  So therefore, I can't submit to this role because then I will be codependent.
• 38:07
  And codependency is seen as such a toxic thing these days.
• 38:11
  Everyone needs to be interdependent and have their own lives and have their own income streams, like whatever it might be.
• 38:17
  But this is all coming from the fear of what if things don't work out, what if things collapse?
• 38:23
  Now, bring that energy into a relationship.
• 38:26
  It's going to be felt.
• 38:27
  So you're coming to the relationship going, oh, I want to be your wife and I want to be your life partner.
• 38:31
  But I also want to make sure that, like, I've got my own thing going too.
• 38:35
  This is where it's really important to know.
• 38:36
  But why?
• 38:36
  Why do you need that?
• 38:37
  Now, it's coming from fear.
• 38:38
  It's because you're wanting a grab bag so that if anything happens, you can run out the door.
• 38:42
  that's not great.
• 38:44
  It's not good at all.
• 38:45
  But if it comes from a, no, I actually need to do my own thing too because my cup's not completely fooled by just being a trad wife.
• 38:51
  And that's where I see it.
• 38:52
  It's like I love doing those things.
• 38:54
  Like I love supporting.
• 38:56
  I love, you know, cooking and cleaning and fussing and looking after my family.
• 39:00
  I've done that my whole life.
• 39:01
  That actually brings me fulfillment, but it doesn't bring me all the fulfillment that I need.
• 39:04
  I also need personal fulfillment of being able to go and use my adult brain.
• 39:08
  And work in that strategic sort of entrepreneurial space as well.
• 39:12
  So I just know that's what works for me.
• 39:14
  But if we have a season where we had last week where Jack is delivering an event over four days, that I know he's going to be really preoccupied and really obsessed in the detail and very depleted at the end of it.
• 39:30
  then I want to make sure that I'm getting up and making breakfast and making sure that the more is nutritious and making sure that I'm keeping Ariel busy so that she, you know, he can relax at the end of the day and deep and press.
• 39:40
  And that's not every single day.
• 39:42
  It's just recognizing that mid season, that's what needs to happen.
• 39:44
  So there's a bit of self-sacrifice in that moment.
• 39:46
  There's a bit of submission.
• 39:48
  Yes, but it's for the betterment of the longer term vision that we have for ourselves.
• 39:52
  And it shouldn't be seen as being, you know, a less than thing.
• 39:56
  Yeah.
• 39:57
  I applaud you.
• 39:58
  I deeply applaud you for being so transparent
• 40:01
  And I'm going to say this is a controversial thing to say.
• 40:03
  I think extreme feminism has failed a lot of women because we were told do it alone, hustle, grind, make your own money.
• 40:11
  And yet so many women have pursued those metrics of success and it's failed them.
• 40:16
  You know, they're feeling, as I said, we've got this massive gender well-being gap.
• 40:20
  They're feeling depleted.
• 40:21
  They may have made it to the top and they're looking and going, but I feel empty.
• 40:25
  You know, this was not the version of success that I had on my vision board.
• 40:28
  Right.
• 40:28
  This is not how I envisage that it would feel.
• 40:31
  So I think, again, I think the whole theme of this conversation we've had today is
• 40:37
  defining what your success metrics are in this season of life.
• 40:41
  And no accident, your podcast obviously is appropriately named.
• 40:45
  You're a wise woman.
• 40:47
  And what does success in this next season look like?
• 40:51
  It's a moving target.
• 40:54
  So my last question today, you know, this podcast is all about inspiring, sharing and encouraging women to experience spacious success.
• 41:04
  How can you experience success without paying what I call the success tax, you know, where we sacrifice our physical health, our mental well-being, our relationships in our relentless pursuit of success?
• 41:14
  And so I'd love to know what's one thing that you do personally so that you can feel, embody, experience, space and success?
• 41:23
  The biggest thing for me is understanding where I'm contradicting myself between the operating system that I have and the operating system that's going to actually get me to where I will feel successful.
• 41:35
  And just literally surrendering to one and choosing the other, like actually making a choice and sticking to it and stop going back and forth, like stop being at war within yourself with these contradicting ideas and sort of outdated mindsets around who you're meant to be and how you're meant to live your life.
• 41:53
  It's really important to check in with yourself.
• 41:55
  And, you know, this will probably happen a few times throughout your life where you actually need to be like, okay, so where am I headed?
• 42:01
  And how do I need to think to actually get there?
• 42:03
  And does the old version of my operating system actually help me or does it need to be dropped altogether?
• 42:09
  And it's taking that time to actually assess that that I think is the most important thing for me right now in terms of, you know, any kind of success metric for the coming year position.
• 42:19
  Oh, amazing.
• 42:20
  I am so grateful for this very transparent conversation.
• 42:22
  This was not, I will be honest, I thought I had an idea of where this conversation might go.
• 42:26
  It's taken a few little deviations and pirouettes.
• 42:29
  I don't like the word pivot, pirouettes along the way, but I really applaud you for your honesty, for your transparency.
• 42:35
  And I think.
• 42:36
  This will serve women who perhaps have gone through the transition, the portal into motherhood and wondered what they did wrong or why it felt so unusual for women who may be on the precipice of it and have very different expectations.
• 42:49
  So thank you for your time.
• 42:50
  Where can listeners obviously...
• 42:52
  listen to your podcast, but where else can people find out more about what you do, Amanda?
• 42:57
  The best place to connect where I spend most of my time online is Instagram.
• 43:00
  So it's at Amanda Panda Delosa.
• 43:02
  Awesome.
• 43:04
  Thank you for your time.
• 43:05
  And I will be chatting to you soon.
• 43:07
  Thank you.
• 43:07
  Bye.