Transcript

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We really want to see as many middle schoolers and high
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schoolers as possible have a life transforming encounter with
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Jesus Christ. We find camp ministry to be the
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most effective way to do it. So your program serves 20,000
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youths a year? What?
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How did you grow so big? Yeah, we actually served more
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than that. Probably about 25,000 kids on
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campus and then another about 2530 thousand kids off campus.
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We just have scaled our missionaries and so we have 350
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missionaries of summer and 180 to 200 are full time, so year
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round. So it's just a lot of lot of
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manpower and a lot of ministry. How'd you do that?
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Man, That's really impressive. Yeah, I mean really ours our our
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model to scale and to reach that many young people has been a
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model that is focused on multiplication and really trying
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to raise leaders up. So we have a core value that we
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believe in the potential of the youth.
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And a lot of times in ministry, we minister to a bunch of
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consumers as opposed to equipping leaders.
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And so in our ministry, we've just always believed that middle
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schoolers and high schoolers are not just people to consume the
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gospel, but are people to send the gospel forth and to be the
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missionaries that the world needs.
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So they've helped us grow. And then that same mentality has
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gone into the development of our missionaries in our community.
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And so we have a lot of young adult missionaries, and we've
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formed them not just to be followers, but to be leaders.
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And I called Jesus's style ministry.
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It wasn't just recruiting followers.
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He was really about forming equipment leaders.
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That's exactly how I see it, man.
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And that's what I've been, that's what I've been teaching
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young people for years. I, I would love to hear how you
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do. I mean, you're, you're much more
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successful at it than me. How, how do you do that?
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How do you convey that leadership?
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Yeah. How do we foster it in the young
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people or the missionary? Little.
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It's a little different in each one.
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Oh, interesting. OK, let's do the missionaries.
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Yeah, yeah. The are are missionaries.
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You know, I'd say it's it's a multi prong, multi prong
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approach. So if I gave you a simple
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answer, it'd be cheap. So I'll give you a few different
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answers, how we form them into leadership.
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The first one is, you know, every leader will say culture
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eats strategy for breakfast, right?
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And so our culture here at Damascus is really, really
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strong and everything we do is focused around our core values.
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But we don't call them core values.
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We call them our missionary mindset because mindsets Dr.
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behaviors. And so we form our people in a
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particular mindset that is driven by our values.
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And then those mindsets really drive their behaviors and that
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helps us scale and grow leadership really fast.
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Another thing is we believe in a team approach to leadership and
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so really having people own what they're gifted AT and
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surrounding themselves around, surrounding themselves with
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people who complement their weaknesses.
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And, and so we just have really solid team.
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So very few people are ministering by themselves or
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leading by themselves, but they're surrounded by a team
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that's helping them thrive and all ships rise because of that.
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So those are really our key. Our key focus is is forming A
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missionary mindset which is focused on our core values and
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then forming team based leadership as opposed to
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individual base leadership. What is that missionary mindset?
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Yeah, we have a 5 core mindsets. We are Jesus centered, mission
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focused, joy filled obedience and toilet plungers.
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Toilet plungers is real comical because we have we have a lot of
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middle schoolers and high schoolers at summer camp.
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So we have clogged toilets that sometimes need unclogged.
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And so it's but it's really like, will you do The Dirty
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work? So what who are focused on
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Jesus, They make him the source and summit for everything.
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People who are mission focused, they put the mission first.
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Joyful obedience and toilet plungers.
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So I'm I'm still. Strong to understand how you
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grew this so, so quickly. I I don't know if you're are you
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able to articulate that? Like what?
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What was? How'd you pull?
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This off well, it's a good question.
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We've we have a great board of directors.
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We have had great mission partners and we have a big
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vision. One of our, I mean, I, we say
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that we dreamed big, but God dreamed bigger.
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And I, you know, my Co Co founder and I, we joke around a
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lot that there's a lot of good ministers out there.
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And for some, for whatever reason, the Lord decided to pour
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a whole bunch of favor on us and the like, you know, we were
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youth ministers and we are working hard and we are loving
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kids and we are doing evangelization methodology that
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I'm sure lots of people are utilizing.
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But God put some accelerator on this fire and it just blew up.
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And I think sometimes it's, you know, you look to the, the, the,
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the scriptures and sometimes God pours out favor on communities
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and we call them charisms, right?
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That it's a special gift that God poured out.
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So I, I do think God gave us a special charism, a gift of
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evangelization, which allowed us to grow and scale quickly.
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And I think also, you know, we grew very quickly over these
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last 10 years, but before that 10 year growth, there was 15
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years of hard work, discipline, character formation, sweat and
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blood and tears that that led to that.
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Wow, well, you must be older than you look, and you look
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pretty young. I'm 41.
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So you've been doing this since you were young?
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Yeah, yeah, I started the summer camp started when we were, we
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started in 2001 and I was actually a junior in high
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school. My youth minister started it as
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a kind of a week of vacation Bible school for the middle
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schoolers in our parish. And so it was really kind of an
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initiative to start it just to serve our middle school youth.
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And more and more young people kept coming.
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But I I started youth ministry at age 18, right after I
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graduated high school, while I was in college.
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And so our our goal was to reach as many young people as possible
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for the name of Jesus. So I'm.
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Still trying to get the secret to your success here, so I'm
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going to this is how I'm going to ask the question.
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If you were to go back to that 18 year old self, what advice
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would you give him that you've learned along your journey?
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Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I think I would teach
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him how to respond better to adversity.
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I think a lot of times I responded to adversity with a
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growing bitterness in my heart towards people.
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And, and so I think learning how to grow and and respond to
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adversity is really important. And also, I don't know if you
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can do this to an 18 year old, but try to teach that 18 year
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old a little bit of humility as well, that there's a how do you
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balance magnanimity and humility, right?
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That desire? To virtuous leadership.
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Yeah. And and I think that's really
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been the struggle of my and, and the blessing of my growth as a
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leader is, is really those two balance.
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How do you dream boldly and live boldly and act boldly and pursue
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greatness, but also realize that life and growth and holiness is
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found in humility and that those those two balance is really
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important? Yeah, it is tricky to balance.
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OK, so let's say you're talking to someone who's had that 15
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years of internal growth, but they it hasn't been manifested
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in this external explosion of activity.
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So what advice do you give them for how to launch and how to
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scale it? Yeah, You know, I would, I would
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usually say just keep going, right.
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If you're doing the right things, faithfulness to the
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ordinary will lead to the extraordinary.
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And so be faithful in the ordinary every day.
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And it's going to, it's going to explode in the extraordinary.
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But I think the I would also before giving that advice,
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because if they've been grinding for 15 years and they're not
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seeing fruit, I would want to make sure that the things that
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they're doing are going to produce fruit before it's just
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telling them to keep going. I think a lot of times,
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especially in ministry, we, we spend a lot of time doing things
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that aren't going to bear fruit. And so be be careful that that
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your time is being used. Well, yeah.
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So you, you as the leader, how do you spend your time and what
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made, what do you think makes you effective?
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Good question, thank you. You know, I think I'm still
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learning that how do I use my time best and how do I become
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more effective with the gift of my time?
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I think if, if I'm real, I, I focus on the things that are
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what's, what's new and what's broken is, is when I'm working
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in, in the organization, I'm really focusing on what's new
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and what's broken and giving my time and attention there.
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I like to give my time and attention to my best leaders and
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really pouring out into them to make sure that I'm giving a
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model for how to raise up leaders.
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So then the they are raising up the leaders under them.
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And so, and then I think thirdly, and in this season
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especially, but there's been a lot of seasons, I spend a lot of
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my time really wrestling with what I would call kind of the
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Holy Spirit compass. Like where, where is God calling
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us and what, what is, what is the mess?
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I, I feel like so much of what we have done, at least in my
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leadership and I, I am, I'm not the only one who is, you know,
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I'm not the only leader in this organization.
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There's lots of leaders. And so, but my contribution is
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really been keeping my ear to the pulse of the Holy Spirit and
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asking him, what do you want me to fight for, for you in this
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arena? And sometimes that's, hey, this
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message that's really important isn't being delivered enough.
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We got, we have to, we have to drive, drive, drive, drive this
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message or this vision isn't being realized and isn't being
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seen by everyone. We need to cast this vision big.
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And so it's really kind of understanding what's the vision
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Holy Spirit's asking me to cast and and drive throughout all
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aspects of the organization. Or sometimes what's that
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refiners fire? The Holy Spirit's asking me to
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push in so that we stay on track with who God's asking us to be.
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Can you consult for people who are trying to grow their their
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organizations? Sometimes I, I wrote a book
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called Dream Bigger and I tried a lot of people were asking for
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advice on, you know, how do we, how do you realize the dreams
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that you have in ministry? And so I tried to put some
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consulting advice in that book. And then I do a little bit of
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nonprofit consulting with parishes and other nonprofits.
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But right now I'm still kind of focused in on, we're still in
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growth mode. So it's it's hard, hard to take
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your eye off of the most important thing with the gods
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asking you to do. Could the Virtuous Leaders
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audience hear the top 2 takeaways from Dream Bigger?
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Yeah, yeah. Top 2 takeaways from Dream
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Bigger. I think probably the first one
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would be to live the kind of life that requires God to show
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up so, so many times. We base our goals and our dreams
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and if you will, our own expectations based off of our
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human limitations. And so I'm going to aim for this
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because I think I can get there. And I, I think a great dream
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comes when you live in a way that requires divine Providence
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and a miracle in order for the dream to be realized.
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And so I think that's the first take away.
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And then I would say that the second one is a little bit of,
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you know, what I've been learning since I've published
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the book and so many people have reached out to me with emails
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and conversations about their dreams is before you think that
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you're meant to pioneer a new trail, ask if God's also raising
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up other people who are either already pioneering that trail or
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can pioneer that trail with you. And we, we have so many.
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And I, I see this a little bit more in maybe Catholicism than I
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do in other Christian denominations.
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But if the pro-life movement's a good example of this as well,
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someone gets a good idea and then they start a new ministry
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or they start a new organization as opposed to like, OK, I love
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the pro-life movement. Maybe I should go help serve a
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pro-life organization to maximize it.
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You know, in America we have like so many pro-life movements
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that has actually dissolved the effectiveness of the movement.
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And so I think a lot of times if you have a dream before you say,
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OK, I'm supposed to be the leader in the initiator and the
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mover of this dream. See, is there a team that's
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meant to do this together? And is there a group that's
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already doing it that I'm supposed to put some
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acceleration gas into the tank as opposed to doing it on my
14:31
own? And that's where the virtue of
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study comes in, taking that time to invest in, spend time on the
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Internet, finding out what's out there.
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the people that are out
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there, I, I, I, I mean, it's just we, we aren't meant to do
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it alone. And so many people are
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struggling, carrying way too heavy burdens on their own.
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So you have a very unique perspective, having formed so
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many thousands of children directly or indirectly.
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What would you say is the biggest challenge facing young
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people today and how do you address it?
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Yeah. You know, I think globalization
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in this Internet age is a real challenge for young people.
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It creates a lot of anxiety. And what I mean by that is right
15:17
here. They just have every idea,
15:20
thought, philosophy, conviction, religion and on.
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The smartphone. Yeah, yeah.
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And there's just, it's content overload on the Internet that if
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I have a question, I can go down 5000 roads to get the answer to
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it. And so it becomes very
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challenging to know what I can ground myself in.
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If you, if you think about kind of the, the, the, the, the
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vastness of the information age, a young person has the same
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access to the vastness of the information age, but they
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haven't yet grounded themselves on anything.
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And so if they don't have a family or a faith that grounds
16:04
them, they end up running down path after path after path,
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which just creates this an insane amount of anxiety and,
16:11
and, and confusion. The good news with that is that
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Gen. Z, they millennials, I think
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they really just kind of fumble through this Gen.
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Z has, has, has improved. Now I think the, the, you know,
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Gen. Alpha, they're starting to get
16:30
smart and realize, OK, we, we actually do need to be grounded.
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And so you're seeing at the younger ages of Gen.
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Z and the older ages of Gen. Alpha, a greater increase of
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religious activity or spiritual like real grounded spirituality,
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because they're looking for something in the vastness of the
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information age to ground them. And so as a, you know, as an
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evangelist trying to share the good news of the gospel, I want
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to introduce young people to the spiritual life, but I also want
17:03
to give them a grounding in the virtuous life and the ethical
17:07
life and the, the religious life that there's you can, you can
17:11
lay your stake in some things as opposed to keeping your options
17:15
and your ideologies completely open, which is what caused
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confusion. He also wrote this book, The
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Holiness Revolution Can. You give us a.
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Couple strong takeaways from that.
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Yeah, really. That book was inspired by Pope
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Benedict the 16th that is World First World Youth Day in
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Cologne, Germany. He he said that the world is in
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a dire need of a spiritual revolution of holiness and that
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that phrase just pierced by heart and that in the midst of
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this crazy world that we live in that it's often and I'd say it's
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probably become even more divided since when I wrote that
17:58
book. It's we have an ideal
18:00
ideological division in in our world.
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And really to that, the life of holiness is, is the lifestyle
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that's going to ring about the transformation.
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The world needs that it's we, we don't need more people on
18:16
platforms yelling at each other, but we, we need real living
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Saints who witness, I would say even from a religious
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perspective, you know, we, we don't need just orthodoxy, we
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need orthopraxy. We need not just right thinking,
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we need right living. And quite honestly, I, I think
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that the church has, or I would say the people within the church
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have often put such a huge emphasis on orthodoxy, right
18:46
thinking, right believing, right teaching.
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And we've given such a little emphasis on orthopraxy.
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So we raise our young people and we want them to make sure they
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believe the right things. But our young people haven't
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seen what it looks like to be Christian, right?
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So kids don't come to camp asking the question, well, what
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do Catholics believe? Our kids come to our camp and
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they're asking the question, how do I live Christianity of the
19:13
world today? Like they, they want to
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understand what's how do you live this lifestyle?
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And even Jesus, he focused very little on right belief and right
19:23
teaching and focused a lot on right lifestyle.
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How do you live the life to bring about the Kingdom of God?
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And so really our ministry now is, is focused on that.
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And how do you teach the lifestyle of Jesus to young
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people? Yeah, almost Doesn't matter if a
19:40
young person knows that gay marriage is wrong if you have
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85% of young people addicted to pornography.
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Yeah, yeah. Well, even like the And that's
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like the understanding of OK, what does the church teach about
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pornography still? That's a that's a huge thing.
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But even the, the lifestyle first is a lifestyle of witness
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and community and, and, and prayer.
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And so I think a lot of times we can focus on the, the fruit,
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which look at pornography is often the, the, the fruit and
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not the root. And so we're really trying to
20:17
start even lower. I'm not even just overcoming
20:20
pornography addiction or stay away from that or don't do this.
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Really, we're focusing. Who is Jesus and how do you come
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to know his voice and how what is he calling you to?
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And how do you live this life with others?
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And how do I witness and testify to the lifestyle I've been
20:35
living? And really, I think it's what
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Paul testified to. Life in the Holy Spirit as
20:42
opposed to life according to the law.
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And that doesn't mean that you don't ultimately fulfill the law
20:49
and live the law. It just means when we come to
20:52
understand life in the Holy Spirit it it's that starting
20:55
point that drives everything else.
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Yeah, I I hear where you're coming from.
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The angle that I've seen more is so-called spiritual retardation,
21:07
which is actually a technical term used by spiritual authors
21:10
in which people who pray a lot and on some level have a deep
21:16
relationship with Jesus, but they're still held back by an
21:20
addiction. So maybe 2, maybe two different
21:24
cases and two different approaches.
21:26
I don't really know what the solution is.
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Yeah, No, I think you're absolutely right.
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I think there's there's a long term manifestations of sin in
21:34
people's lives that have been there that they haven't yet
21:37
overcome. I think that one of the nice
21:39
things about working with middle schoolers so often is that we're
21:42
trying to introduce them to this lifestyle with Christ before
21:47
that impacts them. And I I want to say.
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That's a good point. Yeah.
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And, and I'm, I've been working with middle schoolers for close
21:54
to 25 years. And what I, I've seen is
21:57
actually in the early years, like in the early 2000s, young
22:03
people were exposed to things that at extremely young ages, I
22:08
found, at least within the circles of Catholic parenthood,
22:13
parents have really become much smarter at regulating things.
22:18
And the, our Catholic schools and even our, our secular
22:21
schools, they're becoming better at regulating at what age young
22:25
people are getting information. And I think it's, I've, I've
22:29
seen a transformation in, in a restoration of the innocence of
22:35
middle schoolers, which it was so important for our culture.
22:39
I've been impressed with how many young parents are so solid
22:43
in both orthodoxy and orthopraxy.
22:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's a real fruit
22:49
happening where young people, I mean, you like young people are
22:53
finding spouses and marrying and we've got great.
22:58
I, I think we're, we're, we're, we're forming good people today.
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So you've accomplished a lot and you're not done yet.
23:05
What is your vision? Where Where are you taking this
23:08
and how? What's your plan to get there?
23:10
Yeah, we would like to see a Catholic camp within 8 hours of
23:15
every young person in America. And so that doesn't necessarily
23:18
have to be our Catholic camp, but so we're, we're working with
23:23
camps across the country and trying to see where is God
23:28
asking for camp ministry to grow.
23:31
We, we really want to see as many middle schoolers and high
23:34
schoolers as possible have a life transforming encounter with
23:37
Jesus Christ. We find camp ministry to be the
23:39
most effective way to do it. And so you, when you pull a
23:43
young person away for six days and they're not around
23:47
technology and they have time to focus on who Jesus is, what kind
23:53
of life they want to live and how to live their faith after
23:58
they leave that camp experience, incredible things happen.
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And so our focus has been 1 camp at a time.
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We have, we're in the process of opening our third summer camp
24:10
location and once that gets done our our sites will be on the
24:14
next one. How can people find you if they
24:18
want to learn more? Damascus.net is our website.
24:24
And then I'm on a we have a podcast called Beyond Damascus,
24:29
just found wherever podcasts are found.
24:31
And we have a worship movement as well called Damascus Worship.
24:35
And so if you enjoy worship music, you can check us out on
24:38
streaming platforms there too. Any last words for us, Dan?
24:43
No, I think, you know, when it comes to virtuous leadership
24:46
that there is something about living the, I would say walking
24:54
the walk day by day that allows us to bear grapefruit.
24:58
And I think it, what I have found with so many young leaders
25:03
is that they, we live in a very instant gratification culture.
25:11
And I think the Lord doesn't work in the same way.
25:16
And so spend time on one or two great things in your life as
25:22
opposed to try to keep your doors open to do everything.
25:28
I think there's, you know, there were, there were times when I
25:31
was younger where huge exciting opportunities came my way and
25:39
they honestly, the opportunities looked a lot better than the
25:43
current situation I was in. And but I knew the God was
25:47
calling me to, to this. And when, when God's will is
25:51
your compass, it allows all these distractions to be seen as
25:56
distractions, even if they're good and valuable and exciting.
26:01
And that sacrifices are always going to be needed to be made in
26:07
order for God to bear something great, right?
26:09
The grain of wheat must fall to the ground and die before it can
26:14
become great. And so I think that that process
26:18
is such a gift and, and God wills it for us.
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That's why. Commitment is so liberating
26:24
because it just. It allows you to clarify where
26:27
you spend your time. Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
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And I think that refining that regularly, having a pattern
26:34
where you're taking a silent retreat regularly or doing
26:37
something even if it's a day away, whatever it takes to to
26:42
refined, what am I committed to? How am I executing these
26:45
commitments? And what in my life needs to go
26:48
because it's become something that I've picked up that I
26:50
wasn't meant to pick up. Well, thanks so much, Dan.
26:53
I'm looking forward to that third camp and the 5th and the
26:56
6th and the 100th camp. Yeah, thank you so much.
27:00
Thanks for having me on the show.