Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Aycan Richards on Building and Exiting a Financial Planning Career in the Middle East | Titan Wealth

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Aycan Richards on Building and Exiting a Financial Planning Career in the Middle East | Titan Wealth · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's the reality of being a chartered female financial planner and moving to Dubai?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Ajahn Richards, a chartered financial planner who's built a long and hugely respected career in the international financial planning space.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's now in the process, though, of stepping back after selling her business to Titan Wealth.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is about the full arc of a career, from starting out in the UK to building a client base in the Middle East to the emotional and professional reality of deciding it's time to let go.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about being a woman in financial planning, the realities of building a career internationally, and demystifying a lot of the noise and misconceptions around working and living in the Middle East as a female.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: We go deep into values, reputation, responsibility, and why choosing the right home for your clients and your people matters so much.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about what one Titan means when you're thinking about legacy, not just growth.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Jan.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast here in Dubai at Titan Wealth International.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good, thank you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to say, you've got to be the best dressed person we've had today.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You look fantastic.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have nails before me?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Love the outfit and the purple blazer, very on brand, goes with your earrings as well.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Crikey, I should be doing some sort of fashion podcast here, shouldn't I?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um listen, thank you so much for joining me today and coming in and sharing your journey.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite a unique journey.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've been in the financial planning profession for quite some time, especially within the international space.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't start there, did it?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it started in the UK.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to dig into that because I think it's inspiring to hear your journey.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a distinct lack of females in the financial planning profession in the UK, 16%, I think, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's got to be considerably less in the international space.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think your journey and your experience to where you are now, which is actually exiting the profession through Titan Wealth, I think be really super interesting to everybody, but especially to women, that lived experience in Dubai.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of preconceptions, aren't there, that people have.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, correct.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to set the record straight.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So just tell me a little bit about where you are right now, okay, and what's going on.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I am in the process of uh um exiting from wealth management uh right now.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I uh I'm working with Titan Wealth.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um recently I had a life-changing event um and I've decided to retire from wealth management.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um then I approached uh Titan Wealth.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um in fact they approached first, and um because I have uh ex-colleagues, um we used to work together uh for another company before.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I I started speaking to them.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh now, right now we are right in the middle of uh doing the transitional period to transfer the clients over to Titan fully.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you've come on the podcast because I think um there's a couple of things really.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like we said, we talked about not a just a distinct lack of women in the profession as a whole, especially internationally.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think there are also kind of preconceptions of the international market which might um sort of muddy the water or the thought process around how you exit a business out here as well.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so coming into the ecosystem of Titan Wealth and your experience so far within that journey, I think it's gonna be super interesting for anybody, either's out here that's thinking about doing the same, or maybe in another country, because obviously Titan Wealth International aren't just Dubai, they are international, UK as well.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think your lived experience will um will be able to kind of um get rid of any preconceptions.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um just leading up to um joining Titan Wealth, making that decision to then sell your business and and and choosing Titan Wealth.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: What so what were you doing then?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Were you independent?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Were you on your own?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: What was your journey like in the international space and when did it start and how long have you been working in internationally?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I uh before um uh started speaking to Titan uh about this uh transfer process, um I was running my own company.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so and I had been running my own company for the past five years prior to that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um and before that, my whole journey, international journey before I I went uh after I lived in the UK actually started in 2013.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So about um almost 13 years ago.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was quite an interesting story where it was I I I lived in the UK and I was very happy with my job.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I used to work uh in the bank insurance environment as an advisor.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we were visiting uh friends who lived in Bahrain, um, and we loved the lifestyle and and the environment and the fact that it was a very safe place, um, very nice expat environment.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I started looking into it, uh, and then in 2013 um we moved to Qatar.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Qatar was booming at the time.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was of course World Cup coming up in 2022, and there were several companies moving to Qatar to do business, and there was a British um owned international wealth management company, and I I joined that company um as a financial advisor, um, and I loved it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I had some preconceived ideas uh about the the uh you know the Middle East, especially, especially as a woman, but actually it was so far from far from it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was um a very nice experience, and now I'm in Dubai.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I moved about one and a half years ago here.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So quite some time back again, so Qatar, what were these preconceptions that you actually had?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I wonder if some women listening right now might have those in the current days.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just bring those to the surface and see if we can kind of dispel some myths.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um before I moved, uh even when I when uh just after I moved to Qatar, um, especially as a woman, so and the Middle East being uh an Islamic environment, um I had these ideas that you know you couldn't wear what you wanted to wear, um, and um there were some very strict rules, and was it safe um for a woman to walk on the street at night and and those kind of things?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I this is without any exaggeration, it was the safest place I'd ever seen and I'd ever be ever been to.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um you could go to even a very dodgy, scary-looking place in the middle of the night, you could walk there, um, nothing would happen, no one would bother you.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was very, very safe.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that was very reassuring.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And also the environment where um the friendships, the expat life, um, and I I have a daughter, so she was only seven, and the schooling, the education.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I was concerned about education, would it be as good as the one in the UK?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it was much, much better.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was amazing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, my daughter went to um a school where the emir of Qatar attended at the time, um, and it was a normal school, it was a uh British uh international school, um, and she really loved it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: She made so many friends, and her her opinion and her horizon has changed as well, because it wasn't just British kids that she made friends with, she had so many international friends.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when she went to uni, she started uni in the UK two years ago, um, she was so much more open-minded to different religions, uh different backgrounds and um different opinions.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't think she would have been like that if we were in just one environment with the same same um uh nation and not so cosmopolitan.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh yeah, my preconceived ideas that I had, and they had uh soon after we moved to Doha, they had all disappeared.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I can really echo that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a year um in Dubai, it was uh last last year.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was here with my daughter, who's nine and a half, and my wife, um and they both really enjoyed it, and we all agreed it was incredibly safe here, like really safe.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um my brother even came out and was like, this is nothing like I thought it was, son.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is completely different.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my mum came out and said exactly the same as well.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we ended up going back to the UK, we got really homesick.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I there are some things here that I just can't, that just are not the same.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no countryside, you know, there's no greenery, there's no uh changeable weather.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing how much we went moan about the weather is English.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm you know, living in England.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then when you're here, you're like, I miss the rain, I miss the clouds.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we yeah, you do miss rain.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do miss it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we decided to go back.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I am going to echo what you said around the school and the family side.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely exceptional.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the school that she went to was Arbor, which is like this eco school, got these eco-domes and they've got these animals in it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: They had this like Galacopus tortoise that was out there.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when I walked around the school, I was like, wow, this is like beautiful.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the classrooms are big, hallways are big, you know, beautiful artwork everywhere.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: All the kids were working on very much creative stuff, and really, really good sports stuff as well, which I thought was really cool.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember saying to them, and I said, Why did it?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I said it feels really calm.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: You all seem very calm.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they always said, We've painted it to be cognitively calm.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the colours that they'd chosen were designed to make you feel calm.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, that's really cool.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, amazing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the struggles that we've had now moving back to the UK, and it's probably worth people understanding this, is that my daughter's gone into back into school and she did struggle going back into like local school in our little village, and she has found it really hard.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the biggest kind of like challenges has been that for me, really.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I got adopted by going back into the UK absolutely fine.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wife's the same, but my child, no.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she and although she loves being back in the UK, she loves it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: She also misses the friends that she made here.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it is very um transient in the sense that yes, some people come and go and whatnot.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But she's met some incredible people.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: But in this day and age, WhatsApp, you know, she gets to talk to them.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet she one day track them down on Facebook and go and see them.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully she can come out here as I come out here and do some work.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm that honest appraisal, I think, is definitely important for anybody listening to this who's considering international financial planning.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: What about client generation?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: How hard was that for you coming out to a country where you didn't know it?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And how difficult was it to win clients or generate clients?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what type of clients were you winning when you were out here?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, initially it was tough, of course, I'm not going to lie.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was difficult because I had no clients and I couldn't bring any clients from the UK, even if I had really good clients.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I always believed in having a long-term approach uh to uh um um generating clients.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always um in my mind that it wasn't a quick hits type of job for me.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was for life, and I wanted to make sure that um I find clients in a way that uh first I build trust uh with a few clients, and then they would be recommending me to their friends and colleagues and family and so on.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was always, always uh one of the biggest principles of my foundation of my business.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I that that's what I followed.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, yes, it was very tough to to even find the first client, and uh my boss at the time and some of my ex-colleagues, so they helped me with a few clients.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then I basically I was networking, um, but I was very genuine.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I genuinely um wanted to help them.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: My um approach has never been insincere or fake or just just to earn some money.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when you have that approach, you I believe that you will always succeed.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it may take longer, um, but it will always be very solid.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I focus on that, and then two, three years later, um it was actually I got to a stage where I had enough clients who would recommend me to their again colleagues and friends and families.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't actually proactively say, Oh, can you make sure that you know you recommend me this, that they felt that they they they could do that, and um yeah, that that was the principle that I I followed.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so and you also asked about um what kind of clients, yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I focused on the expats because I I I knew that I was an expat, so therefore, and I I would know what they're going through, what needs they had.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um predominantly uh for some reason I was um uh closer to British clients, uh British expand, because I I had the I had the education, financial advice uh uh education in the UK, and I had a lot of clients, and I knew so much about the rules and regulations and taxation and so on, so I felt more comfortable.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: But of course I had all other nationalities as well.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they were just like me, you know, working for a company um in in Doha or or Dubai now.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they they were uh expats who had they were uh mainly employed um people.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the client base.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like as well, like you you're from Turkey, aren't you?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Originally, yes.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Originally.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So Turkey, UK, Qatar Doha, Dubai, very international.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And being UK qualified and understanding the UK market, tax, you know, investments, pensions, all those things, you could relate to that, but being international yourself as well, in an international country where you're not just British, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel like that gave you another layer of trust?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did people look at you and were you able to like talk to people from different nationalities a bit easier than say just British?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did it open doors for you?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, other nationalities um perhaps yes, they might have felt that yes, I am also um from another country, not just from the UK.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't think it it was a big factor, to be honest.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: It would be very small, yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the biggest factor was then for building that trust?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously you build a strong relationship, yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think the biggest factor of that initial trust building exercise was?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I uh maybe because of what I studied and uh it was social work and and a lot of psychology studying, and um perhaps that helped as well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also I it's my personality.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm a people's person, um, and I'm so interested in people.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to know you know what what they want to achieve and and how I can contribute and add value and be part of their lives.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and because I it give gives me a great pleasure when a client says, Do you know what, Aijan, you made such a big difference because of you, we're able to do XYZ.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that that would have been the biggest factor for me.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So being like an extension of their their family, you know, financial planning, the fourth emergency service or something, like you were part of it if they had an issue around finance, and often when you're in an international space, you don't really know the ins and outs of it, or they could pick the phone up and talk to you.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find that being internationally because of the expat community is smaller, for instance, that you did sort of integrate into their lives a bit and go to lunches and and meet us, they became friends and things?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Socialized and became definitely part of their furniture.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I know so many now I can think of so many clients just now that um when I first met them, they were single, and then then they they introduced their partners, then they come back with the baby, and and now they their their children call me Auntie Ajahn, and when I go and see them, it's just it's so powerful.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's because I I'm genuinely trying to help and uh and be friends.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and some of them actually they're very close friends now.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And was that because you were uh connecting with the women in the relationships?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was that a a big a big part of it?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned about you know, then the baby would come along.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever sat in front of a financial advisor who's male and they've talked about the family and the baby.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, there is that kind of um I think women tend to have a deeper level of emotional intelligence and connection.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Would you agree?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally agree.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and this is why when um when I was talking to Titan about um trans, I'm so sorry to men, but when when they asked me, you know, do you have any preference as to uh male or female advisor for your clients?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I said immediately female.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I think that we we we do have generally not every woman, but we have more um um social intelligence.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and like for example, when I uh have uh couples in front of me, I'm very, very careful about how I address them.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, even if the husband takes care of the finance, um, when I talk to both of them at the same time, I talk to the wife, even if she doesn't get involved, but she's there, she's present.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so therefore, I want to make sure that I respect both of them equally and I pay attention to both of them equally.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And women really appreciate that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they they love that, you know, when I visit them again and again, they they actually start looking forward to seeing me and they get more involved.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, because I always said to couples where husband always takes care of finance, I I said, I'd rather actually you do it together if if if you don't mind it, because it's nice that we have uh three of us together, you make decisions together.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's quite nice and they they appreciate that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel as well that's a really good I love this because it's going to teach people how to really position themselves to couples?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like the the success rate is higher if you're speaking to both the husband and the wife together or both partners together?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Also, when you're meeting a prospect client, if you if you meet uh just one of them, even if that person he or she is the decision maker in the family when it comes to financial matters, um uh sometimes when you have the first initial meeting and they go back and say, Oh, I'll talk to my husband and wife or wife uh and I'll get back to you, sometimes then something happens and the ki the communication breaks and they never become a client.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So international advice is you know can be quite aggressive.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: It does feel quite quite salesy culturally.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the um the way you're coming across to me is not that way at all.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite calm, it's quite calculated.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in I had the pleasure of sitting down with you and having the pre-podcast questions, and I think you think about things you know before you speak, yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you're asking you're asking really, really good questions, um, which has helped me formulate the basis of the podcast.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: But even if I say sit sit here today, I feel comfortable with you, so I can see why people would want to work with you.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I always find that when I do speak to female financial planners, there's a there's a different kind of um level, it's not so bullish, I suppose.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, is my personal not so salesy now?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not so salesy.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do yeah, and I don't think men do it intentionally, actually, and there's plenty of men that don't do that, but I just think it's how we're wired.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're you know a little bit more testosterone, isn't it?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit more kind of like, oh you know, come on, let's go.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I just think women tend to have that.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is why more women should come into the financial planning profession.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, because it does really open them up to an opportunity where those natural skills, those natural nurturing skills, um are needed because emotions run high when it comes to money, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And women tend to be more emotionally open to having those discussions and conversations.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really cool.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, we need more women, so it's good that you're expressing that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you would go back in time and teach yourself something about your approach to building client relationships that you wish you did sooner, and maybe this will help anybody that's coming out on their own or they're starting afresh in the UK or even here, what things would you do differently earlier on that that you feel would have a really positive impact in your career and uh generating client relationships?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when I first moved to the Middle East, you mean?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like if you to look like you're coming back towards the end of your Financial planning career.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were to teach your younger self something, what would that be when it came to like winning new clients or generating clients?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: What would you tell your younger self?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything at all you would tell yourself or you would guide your younger self?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because that will inspire somebody listening now to maybe take that approach earlier than perhaps waiting?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, probably initially I was a bit shyer.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um I I wasn't as confident as I am now.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there were some opportunities that I could have uh actually utilized that I um I was too shy to to say something.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess that would be one of them.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So don't worry about what they would think.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for example, my my um English wasn't as good as it is now.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that would uh worry me.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: What if I said something wrong?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't say it properly, or they would probably prefer a native English speaker because you know they they can speak better.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um perhaps that that would um that I would change that and not to worry about it because um I don't think they would care.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so don't don't listen to that idea in your head that yeah, build that confidence and just get stuck in and go and do it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for for you know, this this is uh this is good for people who are not native speaking uh uh English speaking uh advisors, but they want to come to the international environment and they want to work and they're maybe concerned about their accent and how they would come across and not to worry because the intention of trying to help people and be honest is much more important than the accent.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Going to take you back to your very first foray into financial planning.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You were working as a cashier in um Nationwide Building Society in the National Nationwide Building Society.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I used to recruit for Nationwide Building Society back in the day.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you were working as a cashier.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why financial planning?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: What was it about financial planning that piqued your interest?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And take us back to that point.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was only I think 23 or very young.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I uh I was working at the uh the counter, very busy branch uh of nationwide.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh we used to have a an advisor, financial advisor called uh Paul, and never forget him.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um he he would come in and we would book appointments for him, and he would come and see uh clients, and um I really liked his approach, um, plus the fact that he was very good looking.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well that helps help me in my life.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really, yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was he was very, very handsome and very charming.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I I said to myself, hmm, that's it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want to become.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because he would help people with their you know, kids' education planning, retirement, saving, um, insurance needs.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, that's it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's my goal.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I told my line manager at the time, and my English was really like very basic at the time.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Well, I you know, you need to work hard, and I worked so hard.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I literally, whatever the little the uh competitions that were going on, I I would win every single one of them.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Referrals on buildings and insurance contents insurance, referrals on uh credit cards and whatnot, whatever.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously financial planning referrals.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was going for every single one of them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I worked really hard on my uh English as well.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then after two years, um uh there was a position that had come up uh in the same branch where I was, and I went for it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I was really worried about my English.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And would they actually laugh at me?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Would they say, No, sorry, you can't do it.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And never forget that person, that was my first boss, Ali Allison, and she said, You flew through it because Ajahn knew I could see from your eyes that you were so passionate about what you wanted to do.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was an amazing interview.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, you have the job.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that was one of my happiest moments of my life.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Working hard towards something, yeah, achieving that was the thing that kind of really switched you into gear and thought, hang on, I can do this, people believe in me, off I go.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was I I honestly thought that she wouldn't take me on.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, it's and it led you to the international space.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, today, you know, you've had a great career, you've built some fantastic relationships, you've lived internationally, you've come to the end of your career now within wealth management, you're gonna go on and do something else, but it's time to exit, and and that's great, you know.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But in the international space, sometimes it can be quite difficult.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what were your preconceptions of actually being in a situation where you're working for yourself, wanting to exit the business?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what was your preconceptions of the international market when it came to selling it essentially, your business?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any worries, any concerns?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: What was in your mind?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you end up at Titan and why did you choose them?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I had a lot of concerns actually.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um initially, um, so I wanted to join Titan, and um the main reason was it was actually my ex-colleague uh who now works for Titan, um Assad.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: He we always got on really well uh originally uh with our uh a previous company that we worked for.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I had I had an initial chat with him.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but before that, before actually, before I spoke to him, I was, you know, I was always thinking, so when I come to exit uh from wealth management, um, whom can I trust?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um for me, the most important thing was that it's a bit like um the analogy might sound a bit silly, but uh imagine uh a chicken, you know, uh with little chicks, babies, you know, they they get the the hen is very, very protective over the chicks.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So me and my clients, I wanted to make sure that I can actually exit knowing that uh the company that takes over my clients, look after my clients, they don't become just numbers.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so that they take care of them.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was so important, and also equally, I knew that there were so many, I know that there are so many uh companies out there who are not very ethical, not very reliable, not very professional.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that that was it was very, very tough.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was a very tough decision for me.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I spoke to uh my ex-colleague Assad, and after that I was thinking, perhaps the Titan wealth uh might be the answer.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I wasn't still sure.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually quite skeptical.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he he was reassuring me that it would be Titan is not like some, he gave me some names, and not that they're not like uh those kind of companies.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh we have very good values and so on.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we had several meetings and uh discussions.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um but since I've made the decision to actually transfer my clients to Titan, um I've never ever had a moment where I thought, nah, I wish I hadn't, because it was one of the best decisions, business decisions I'd ever made.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what was the what what reassured you though during so like you've been here, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And people can say, like you said, people can say whatever they want at the beginning.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the experience?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's the experience been like?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's been reassuring you in that in that in that sort of process so far?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um from right from the beginning to until now, um everything that they they said they promised that they would do, they delivered.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't just deliver, they did delivered it with professionalism, with um with uh um additional reassurance that you know if I had any uh extra requirements, um, so for example, I would like to make sure that you know I I stay stay on for another year.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to um uh make sure that you know I uh uh I meet their new advices.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, um they need to be female and so on.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um whatever I said, they never ever said, no, sorry, we can't do that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um they always accommodated uh my requests.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um they were so professional, not just the top people, like the management, but also the staff, admin staff, they were so efficient, uh, so uh friendly and nice.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and their office, you know, it's been amazing to come and visit uh them face to face, and the fact that I know that I can meet them face to face anytime I want it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh all these things, you know, that along the way, uh including your financial um uh promises, um, everything was met, and it was met at a very high standard.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good to hear.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good you said about the office environment because um I am somebody that's quite sensitive to environments.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I feel quite calm here when I'm here.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's uh do you feel the same as the environment?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that environment.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's when I walk in, um it's such a nice, welcoming environment.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love um, I'm very I I like green plants, I like the like the the canteen.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen a canteen like this before.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a proper cafe, um, it's very welcoming.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um people are always uh smiley and and friendly, uh, they come and talk to you and chat.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not like a very rigid corporate environment where someone is watching you all the time and you have to work, nothing like that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a nice environment.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone, especially females, uh who are planning to um come to the Middle East um or any other international environment, but I know the Middle East, of course, well, and they want to work.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as a financial advisor, I highly recommend Titan Wealth.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not seeing it as like a you know, they're not paying me for this.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I genuinely, I I genuinely recommend that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's good, and you've obviously got the experience of being out here, and that's that's why I wanted you on the podcast, because you know, you're not gonna come on a podcast and talk about about a you just wouldn't c you wouldn't come on and uh and mislead people because you you you're going through an experience, right?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna mislead other women to come into a business if it's not the right environment, you know.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it you know, I'm really passionate about getting more more women into the financial planning profession.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually really cool, actually.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's a girl called Ella that is at Titan Wealth, um, and she um heard about the financial planning profession through the Financial Planner Life podcast, my podcast.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So she was working on oil rigs, where it's predominantly male as well.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yes.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um literally, she's one of like 180 sometimes on these oil rigs.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: She got interested in finance and then found me and the podcast, which talks about careers, but most importantly, she saw somebody called Natasha Percy Baxter, who had reached out to me again and said, How do I get into the financial planning profession?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now I had her on the podcast talking about her journey in financial planning at two different stages.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: She ended up reaching out to Natasha, so both people reached out to me, both are now in the financial planning profession.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: She reached out to Natasha.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ella's now working at Titan Wealth.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now doing these podcasts.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of brilliant full circle moments.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I I know that people see people women will see women doing the work and they will find trust in that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I also notice as well that they will reach out and connect.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: So those two are like really quite good chums now.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really positive thing.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're doing right now is sharing the realities of it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I do find that women will share the realities of it and tell the honest truth, because that's how you're wired, right?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're not going to mislead somebody.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really, you know, super news to hear to hear that as well.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I echo the things that you're saying.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if any of those individuals are listening right now and just want to hear from you directly, would you be happy with them to reach out to you on LinkedIn at all?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I would love to help.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no problem.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: They can message me and have a call.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I I I I'm so passionate about what I do and I and what I have done and achieved.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um if they are if anyone out there who's planning to come out and do this job and in the Middle East, um i i I I would love to help and tell them what it's like.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people can find it quite emotionally draining exiting a profession that's ingrained in their identity.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're emotionally connected to the work that you actually do.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't yet closed the door on it.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: But how has that been for you, that journey?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Has it been emotional?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that you're kind of sad about, or are you excited about the next chapter of your life?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, both actually.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um because uh when I sent um the email to all clients um about my decision, um I was crying all day because it was so emotional, because I as I could see the clients' names, each uh uh one of them, and uh it just it went through my head that what meetings we had and what conversations, and some of them are still very close friends.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was quite emotional.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, um I'm also very excited that uh I'm not fully retiring.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm doing something again in you know finance related, so uh foreign exchange trading, um, which I'm very passionate about.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very unique um uh uh business.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm looking forward to continuing to do that, and some of these clients actually are going to uh remain as as for uh FX clients.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking forward to that, and I'm also excited that I will still be able to see some of these clients.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then some others I will not be their advisor, but I I'm positive that I'm very confident I'll I will still be in touch.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh again, I received really nice responses from clients, and some of them said that you know they they were very sad, but they respect uh the decision that I've made um because of what happened and some changes in my life.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they were very understanding, yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it was emotional and also exciting at the same time.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like with my podcast, it's it's different people at different stages of their career.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I like talking to people that are coming to the end of it because that's what a lot of people are working towards.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're working towards trying to have a cash event, and they're looking to, you know, if they built a book of business, can they sell that book of business?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can they get a couple of events out of it?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and you hear horror stories and you hear real successful stories.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important that we cover all of those walks and all, because it helps people avoid and it helps people prepare.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there could be somebody that's sitting here listening now whose mindset shifts, whether that's to get into the profession, whether that's to go international, yeah, whether that's to exit.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like how best to do that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate that you're sharing this quite open and honestly.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a phrase that gets put around called One Titan.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And because Titan are such a fast growing group of companies and they're quite acquisitive, One Titan is all about connecting the business and how it makes people feel by being part of the group of companies.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So going through this stage at the moment, do you feel like the strength of the business in the group of companies also influenced your decision to sell your book and having such a strong presence in the UK as well as now internationally?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a layer of confidence it gave you?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, actually, I I should have mentioned that earlier.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was one of the main reasons as well, because as I mentioned earlier, I have so many uh clients who are originally from the UK and Europe and some other parts of the world.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when they come to go back to their own countries, it's so important that uh a company that has my clients has presence in other countries because it's to do with regulations, the licensing, uh, the fact that they should be able to see their clients face to face if needed.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that was um one of the big factors.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the fact that Titan has presence in the UK, for example, um, was so important, so valuable for me.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now I don't need to worry about my clients.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know that some of them have already uh repatriated and some are planning to in the next few years.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: So then they don't have to worry about this.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what will happen to them?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Will they have to change and find another advisor?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need to do that.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it will be under the same umbrella.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: And all the proposition as well is completely centralized.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there is no need for a client to really go anywhere as long as the services is kept up to a very high standard, which is all about the client experience, what everyone's passionate about, it does create this borderless business, this global business that can pretty much do absolutely everything.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's good for people like you that are looking to pass on relationships that you care deeply about.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, thank you so much for sharing your journey and where you are at the stage you're at and why you're at Titan Wealth.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.