Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / How to be the best Financial Adviser you can be | Julie Flynn

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How to be the best Financial Adviser you can be | Julie Flynn · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone and welcome back to this week's episode of Financial Planner Life.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's me, your host Charlie, and gosh, it's been a hot minute since I last sat here and hosted an episode.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've been busy, I think, attaining B Corp.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: We've been launching the Financial Planner Life Academy.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, this is probably my last episode of 2023, and it's going to be a juicy one.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of you who are new here listening, Financial Planner Life, we like to bring you the best content relating to careers in financial planning.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: We also like to bring you the realities of working in financial planning, the barriers people face and what they overcome, and give you the advice you need to make your career in financial planning an absolute success.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, the guest we have on today is a financial advisor.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is a financial coach.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She also has her own podcast, so the tables will definitely be turned today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she works coaching financial planners around a variety of different topics and how to bolster their services and improve their offerings.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that this individual will share a lot of insight of her passions around financial planning, around women in the profession, and how to really know your worth as a financial planner.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, without further ado, I would love to welcome this week's guest on Financial Planner Life.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have today Julie Flynn.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Julie.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: How are you today?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm great, Charlie.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I came across your profile on LinkedIn and instantly knew I had to message you and be like, this is the kind of person I want to talk to on the podcast because I could just sense there was going to be an interesting story around how you got to where you are to date within the profession.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And for people listening at home who are new to the podcast, or maybe someone who's a seasoned listener, we tend to follow a similar structure where we start off at the beginning, really.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: We want to understand the journey that you've had.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So take us away, Julie.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Paint the picture for us.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: How did you start your career in financial planning?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: The same way a lot of people my age did by accident.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So back in 1998.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So bear in mind, I'm an English and drama graduate.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, right, graduated, but I need to get a job.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, there was a job going at Friends Providence as a Tide Advisor, and I knew the training course was six weeks.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, well, in six weeks, I can get a proper job, can't I?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: That buys me six weeks.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And here we are 25 years later.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a common way people get into the profession, they fell into it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess starting off where you did, you probably didn't foresee that 25 years later you'd be where you are now.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And talk about how you've carved out that path to finding the niche you're sat in today.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think after the six-week course finished and I started doing the job, what I realized is I knew nothing about money.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like nothing.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, oh my God, how powerful is this career?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because it teaches you one of the most important things you need to know.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, well, I'm staying just for that because this is stuff people need to know.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I was TIE advisor for a while, then I went and became an IFA.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then a fun group approached me to come and work for them.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, oh, that sounds like fun.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because it means I just get to talk about investments all day.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And back then I thought that was fascinating.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So why did that stuff go up?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Why did that stuff go down?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: What's going to happen next?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: What happened before?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I found that really interesting.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you could say I went to the dark side for a little while.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then um ended up at Legal in General, still on the dark side, just talking about investments and tax and trusts working with IFA farms.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: I quite enjoyed that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I loved my job at Legal in General.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then in 2012, just as RDR and everything was about to happen, my husband got diagnosed with cancer for the second time.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I had an 18-month-old.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And when I thought about the hours that Legal in General were going to want me to put in, I thought, I don't think that's feasible.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're nursing a husband through cancer and you've got an 18-month-old.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought a most sensible option would be to leave and become self-employed as an advisor.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, big risk.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know people making the jump.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I speak to people a lot about it.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a decision to take lightly.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: How did you how did you come to that decision?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: How did you justify that in your head going from the safety and security of employed into self-employed?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there've been lots of changes at legal in general.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when I sat and looked at, if I stayed, did I like who I was going to be working for?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Did I think they were paying me enough?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did I think, did I think I was going to enjoy what I was doing?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: So all the things that were important to me, you know, is it am I getting paid enough?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do I like who I'm working with?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm doing?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do I feel fulfilled?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: The answer was all no.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it seemed a bit of a no-brainer.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that autonomy, I needed that autonomy to be able to fit work around my family circumstances at the point.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I was really lucky because I know a cracking financial advice firm in the Northwest is going to give a shameless plug for Dominic at Beckett's FS, who were who were one of my accounts.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Dominic gave me a home to come and learn.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so grateful to him and all the team at Beckett's.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that was 10 years ago, and here I am now.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of the autonomy as well, when it comes to the work-life balance, I think back in 2012, in that time, I don't think many people had the word work-life balance.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was the word wasn't on their lips.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think COVID definitely brought that out of a lot of people.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And making that transition for yourself, did you feel it relate through into your work with clients?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel more aligned with what you were offering?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel, I guess, more balanced and healthier in your job?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good question.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not one that I thought about before.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think it definitely gives you the perspective that you know we take so many things for granted, and everybody thinks it won't be them.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it had been us twice.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's definitely a reality check.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know what?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, when I look back at the start, that whole work-life balance thing, I was totally focused on that because I had to be.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was an essential.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: See, once it wasn't essential, it drifted.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that I wasn't paying as much attention to it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a that's a lesson for all of us to take that we need to be intentional about these things.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's something there that forces you to be intentional, when if that circumstance isn't going to be permanent, it's asking yourself, well, what can I do to ensure that I carry on with the good habits that I have right now?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so let's let's talk about Julie Flynn, the financial planner, then.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you've been self-employed for 11 years now, would you say?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of in yeah?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be 11 years.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And talk to me about your clients and how you have found.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've spoken previously about a niche that you have and things that you're particularly passionate about, if not a personal mission that you have within your clients.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of financial planners do get to a point where they find their niche within clients.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: They find the offerings that they have and the conversations they have with clients align with their values.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to me about the clients you have and the niche you've carved out and the mission you've had as a financial planner.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Charlie, I think you know that I'm quite straight talking.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm probably gonna say some things that I'm not meant to.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if we go back about five or six years ago, so by that point, I got the hang of this advising thing and it wasn't that difficult and it was all going great.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: But what I found is I was starting to become a bit disillusioned.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just like you can move pension A to pension B and you can get cheaper charges, more flexibility, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And really, that's dull as dishwater to me.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: I like, I can't do this for the next 10, 15, 20 years.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just, I'll go, I'll go crazy.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to find a way to find some meaning in what I was doing.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, right, well, I want to specialise, I want a niche.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest, it maybe took me about 18 months, two years to figure out what my niche was.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And for anybody that hasn't niche but wants to, this listen, my tip is that your niche is probably already existing within your client bank.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: So they're in there already.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to figure out who they are.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, normally if you're a woman in financial advice and you want to niche, the obvious one is you go down to the divorce room.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I knew that I categorically did not want to do that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the resilience to be able to cope with that kind of work.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a hard.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't I had to finish each each night in tears, can't do that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I had noticed, um, I had maybe about three or four clients that had all lost their husbands.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I absolutely bloody love working with them.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much fun together.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like what I noticed is you know, in the first month to three months after their husbands have died, all friends and family around, and they're all they're all there for them, and then life carries on.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was making a point of once we got past the three-month mark saying, right, should we go out for lunch together?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I regularly went out for lunch with these 17, 80-year-old women.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, we'd have a hook.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely brilliant.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, that's the niche because it's so fulfilling, so rewarding.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then the more I started to niche that, you know, I heard some horror stories about how women that had lost their partner have been treated.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that just pushes one of my buttons because, like, so like justice and equality are like really, really big drivers for me.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'll get on the soapbox about it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you see an entire section of the population being marginalized, well, that's totally bloody unacceptable to me.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, I think they're fun and I want to hang out with them.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: That should be my niche.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I ended up working with women that have lost their partner.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, what's quite interesting is you mentioned earlier how one of the motivators for you into getting into self-employed was because you had an 18-month-old and your husband had just been diagnosed with cancer two times.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think emotionally you probably felt very connected to these women because from your own perspective, you'd, you know, you could have been in their shoes or like it was just, you know, do you know what I mean?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was very close to the heart.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally love spending time with older women.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think spending time with a diverse age group of people, you know, men should spend time with men of different ages, women should spend time with women of different ages because you just learn so much.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's so many stories that you hear, and I think it's so special because, like you said, family can drift off in the first few months after the initial loss.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I know a lot of financial planners out there say that they're there for big life moments.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Financial planners stick through the constant, that they're a running constant for a lot of clients.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that the work that you did was so valued and appreciated by them.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, when looking at careers and financial planning as a whole, we can talk about, you know, doing your exams, finding your niche, carving out your path, but there's always going to be barriers that people come across.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's always gonna be hurdles, whether that's in the profession or out of the profession.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's life.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we have this podcast called Financial Planner Life.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: We like to dig into it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, for yourself, through your career, have you had those barriers or those hurdles that you've had to overcome overcome?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, there's probably two that spring to mind.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's two.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the first one, and this is quite well known amongst some of the advice community that that know me, in particular the women, is I have narcolepsy and I have PTST, which means that so I can fall asleep.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're okay, Charlie, I'm not gonna fall asleep during the podcast.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, but these are these are both two lifelong conditions that can't be cured.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that awareness that I have to build my business so that it can accommodate my lifestyle and my health.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that has been a challenge learning how to do that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if we go back maybe five or six years ago, there was a period of time where I could only work for four hours a day for four days a week.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just, it took a long time for me to accept that I can't do things the way I used to.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like, okay, but you built a business to accommodate this, so why are you beating yourself up?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just that kind of acceptance.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um then the other barrier, the well, is it a barrier or is it a challenge?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'll let you decide, Charlie.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna mention five, six years ago, you start to get the impression my life imploded five or six years ago.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So round about that time, I was separating from a husband, and unexpectedly at the age of 42, realized I was gay.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And which you know, I didn't see coming.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: The husband didn't see it coming either, but he's okay.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and what I found a challenge there was so here I am halfway through my life, realizing that a big part of my identity's changed, and you're like, holy shit, sorry.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay, and it's like, how do you handle that with clients?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I thought, well, not everybody is accepting.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I like, do I need to make people aware of this?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because what I don't want to do is build a relationship with someone, and then it comes out that I'm in a relationship with another woman, and it turns out they're a bigot, because that's it, that's gonna be a problem.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, how do you handle that?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then existing clients as well.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a hurdle.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna call it a hurdle that I hadn't anticipated that I would need to navigate.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what a hurdle as well.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like you said, your whole identity had changed.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think naturally in many careers, we sometimes have to, in a in a level of service with clients, you do have to give a version of yourself, you have to emotionally communicate with people, alter how you talk, to get to know that client, build that relationship.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even when I was a waitress, sometimes you know, I'd have an older couple come in and I'd change how I speak to them and how I would then speak to the younger table come in.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't go home and think, oh, that's compromised my identity.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I was a waitress, it wasn't something I saw as a full-time job.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in my job now, I want to come in with as much genuine and authentic energy as possible.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for yourself, having this big identity change, did you then almost feel like you had to compromise with clients?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever feel like you had to put on a face and demonstrate a different version of yourself?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or were you just there, you know, you spoke earlier, you'd get on the soapbox for justice and equality and diversity.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So did you just come straight in?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And did you ever have any of those conversations with clients where you said, by the way, this has changed?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh-huh.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, so well, I found so I'm 49 now, and I've realized I could it's just too much effort to pretend to be something that you're not, or to try and hide aspects of yourself.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because quite frankly, who has the energy for that?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: I do have one really amusing story.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to hear a funny story?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love a funny story.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, one of my absolute favourite clients, um Anna.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: So she I think it was an 80th birthday.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking her out for lunch, and Brian, who is the husband who I'm still very good friends with, he knew Anna as well.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we thought, let's take her Anna out for lunch.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: He could drive so I could have a drink with her.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, Anna didn't know that I was gay.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's sitting there over lunch asking Brian, what is it with gay women?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting next to her, giggling my head off.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Brian's kicking me under the table to behave.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she went on to ask him all these questions.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I went to see her the next week and said, Anna, there's something I need to tell you.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: She just and she came out with the same thing that everybody said, Are you happy, love?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I am.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: She goes great.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's all that matters.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I just got goosebumps at that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so important.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think the one thing I do find with I've got family members who have had their own way of finding their identity and coming out.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not something which usually comes into a professional sphere because it doesn't, it shouldn't influence your job.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it shouldn't influence who you are.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And to have clients give you that level of acceptance, oh, that's just exactly what you want to hear, isn't it?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't want anyone to turn around and not have that level of of acceptance for yourself.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And moving forward as well, looking at financial planning, how has it changed from when you first joined, particularly when talking about maybe like the LGBTQ community?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Have you found there's a community for yourself within financial planning?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say my community, the place where I feel most at home is uh Charlotte Woods Empowered Facebook group for women in financial advice.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: That has got to be the most truly supportive and collaborative place for women financial advisors to hang out.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's probably what to use the phrase my tribe, they live there.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to find your tribe, to find your community.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I've definitely discovered recently that surrounding yourself with people opens up the conversations.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've got a problem that needs to be shared, sometimes you don't know it needs to be shared.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And once you do talk about it, problem shared is a problem halved, isn't it?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, considering there could be people listening today who are potentially sat there feeling that they are compromising who they are in some capacity in the workplace, what would your advice be to them?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, what would my advice be?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's my advice.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that is be you, be unashamedly you.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because the longer you leave it, because you will end up being you, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: The longer you leave it, you'll look back and think, bloody hell, why didn't why didn't I do that earlier?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: So providing you're a nice person, where's the harm in showing who you who you truly are?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when talking about bringing individuality and celebrating that in the profession, I think financial planning is going through.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, as someone who, you know, here I am sat as a as a podcast host, but I'm also a financial planning recruitment consultant.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's my specialist, it's getting people into the career of financial planning.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're in a very transitionary period at the moment.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've got lots of retiring IFAs coming up in the next 10 years and lots of people wanting to join the profession.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you feel, in order to continue celebrating individuality, where do you feel financial planning needs to catch up in terms of people in the profession or people joining the profession?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I do have really strong views on this one.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I know the the obvious answer would be to say to get more young people into the profession, to get more women into the profession.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And all of that is valid and true.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: But the one that I actually give a shit about, and I think we need we really need to take action, is we need to do more to retain the women that we've got.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have enough women in the profession anyway.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if we don't adapt, we're going to we're losing the women that are already here.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if we do that, then we're just we're just filling up a leaky bucket.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's so much work that needs to be done there, be it from our professional bodies, be it from us at firm level, everywhere, we all need to address this.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are ways that say that there's somebody listening who currently runs a firm, or say there's somebody who has influential, you know, influential power with a professional body, or maybe there's a woman sat in a firm right now thinking, yeah, I definitely agree with this.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are some of the actionable steps that could be done to help women in the profession and to retain them in the profession?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's talk sort of firm level first of all, and then maybe do professional body if I'm feeling done.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: At firm level, see, what I always find a bit bizarre is it's not unusual now, financial advisors, when we're talking with clients, we'll talk about behavioural economics and about the biases that come into play when that make us do stupid things with money.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think most advisors are familiar with that now.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like, if you're not, then you need to check out the work of is uh Amos and Tversky.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Danny Kahneman and Amos Toverski, brilliant work on all the biases that we are familiar with that we use when we're talking about investments.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now, those biases weren't discovered just to explain why people do stupid things with money, they equate to every aspect of life.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're sitting there in a company and you're saying, Well, look, we just hire the best person for the job, and it just keeps turning out to be a man.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: My challenge there is is it possible that there is some unconscious bias at play?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why you keep getting the same answer.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Look, it's a man, that's the best person for the job.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like there's a load of research done by those two.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're they were Jewish psychologists, um, but there's a book by Michael Lewis, I think it's called.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: The Undoing Project, which summarizes all of their work.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And like if people take one thing away, go and have a read or listen to that book and see how it changes how you recruit people, how you treat people at work, how you treat clients.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be the thing that we can all actually implement in action is just be aware of what are my biases.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think talking about biases and like a hiring practice, I remember once I saw a fantastic article.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it might have been Progeny that like discussed it and it was maybe FT Advisor or something, which spoke about culture fit and how hiring for culture fit, you know, if you've got a business and you all have particular values, choosing someone to fit that culture means they will join the business.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And likely chances everyone's going to get along and it's going to be a really good, comfy fit in the business.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: But then hiring outside of that culture fit to bring more diversity in, it's it's a really fine line for some hiring managers, I think, because I believe in, you know, having as many different people around that table as possible when making these decisions.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I'm so passionate about that you need to have as many different outlooks and perspectives contributing to those decisions.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're hiring for culture fit, if you've got someone who doesn't sit outside of that because they've got this diversity, but then they might not get on with everyone in the business because they don't fit this culture.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely something where I think there is a lot of unconscious bias in hiring practices.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I even have it that some of the clients that we work with ask us to redact names on CVs because they want us to, you know, and to not put a gender in the CV.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to see the experience and see the person.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that for me is so powerful because we have unconscious bias training as recruiters because it's very easy to look at a CV and have that unconscious bias, in my opinion.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just being totally honest.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to really push through what we've sub, you know, subduedly been taught in the society we live in to ensure you're giving everyone that equal opportunity.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because sadly, a hiring manager could be the barrier for someone entering the profession, and it could be the barrier that's perpetuating lacks of diversity.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm yeah, 100% on board with you on that one.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, see when anybody listen to this and they hear the word bias, they're like, oh gosh, right?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like it doesn't have to be like the big scary biases.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to start with right, uh, we need more women, we need more people of colour, we need more gay people.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So the way that I started exploring my own biases, and this is a really simple exercise.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you just sit there and think of everything that you think is good, right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to do this when I was doing my ICF coach training.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you start at a gentle end of the scale, I think structure and organization is really good.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it stands to reason that anything that's unstructured and disorganized, I'm gonna think is bad.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean it is, it's just I have a bias.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we all have like a gazillion biases.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So just sit there and ask yourself, what do I think is good?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So write it, write a column, and then the opposite column, write the opposite of it, and that tells you what you're biased about.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a nice gentle way to start to explore and be aware of what little gremlins are messing with my head and my decision-making process.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it does take that honest, deep self-reflection and opening yourself up to be wrong, because there is, it's, you know, you've got to go down that to go down that path, you're gonna have to accept somewhere down there you are probably on the wrong, wrong choice on the wrong decision, but you've gone down that path and you're now learning and you're now opening yourself up.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think, like you said, if people hear the word bias and go, oh, that's it's part of the conversation, it's part of where financial planning and every profession, even my own profession as a recruiter, we need to catch up in certain elements.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone falls behind on something, don't they?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And another string to the bow that you have, Julie, is you have a podcast.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was going to ask my next question around your opinion on financial education, which I think will segue very nicely into what your podcast is about.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of financial education, um, what is your opinion on the importance of a financial education?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's absolutely bloody critical.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well it's not so, you know, I ended up staying in the job because it taught me things about money that I needed to know, and my life is better because I know these things.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, not everybody is fortunate enough to fall into a six-week training course to be a financial advisor.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that there are two aspects towards financial education, and we need both of them in place.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it is the practical things like you know, how to organize your bank accounts, how to plan your money for the month.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also understanding that money is a practical thing, but we have an emotional relationship with it as well.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, you know, we can give all the education in the world to someone, but if there are some unhelpful habits or beliefs that are in place, they're not going to be able to implement it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we need kind of a two-pronged attack attack with it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what we aim to do with the podcast.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of we say it's the emotional and the practical side of money.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so here's the the good things to be doing with money.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why might we not do them?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: What might be stopping us?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: What might get in our way?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just trying to get the conversation go, trying to normalize talking about money because people are much more comfortable talking about the sex life than they are about the bank balance.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, particularly us Brits as well.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think as well, with your podcast, what was it that led you to create that?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the conversations you were having with clients?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the conversations people were having with you, you know, friends or family that know that you're a financial advisor?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Were they saying, Julie, you've just got to put this knowledge somewhere?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was the moment where you thought I'm gonna start a podcast?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, just sometimes I have these mad little notions.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I am a despite the fact I'm sitting here with you, I'm a raging introvert, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And trying to get overpeopled.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: But as we went into the second year of COVID, we were all back in lockdown again.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, oh my God, we've got all these women that are stuck at home, they can't get their support network.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: We've had 12 years, nearly 12 months of lockdown, people's finances are stretched.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: How stressed out are these women and who can they turn to?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, and I'm sitting on a load of information that could help.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I went in, oddly enough, to the empowered Facebook group and said, Who fancies pulling all this information we've got and just chucking out there and trying to reach these women while they're in lockdown?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And quite a few of them put their hands up and they all came and helped me.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: So there was quite a few people that helped me off the ground.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So honourable mentions go to Michelle Lample, um, Tams and Kane, Neil and Mystery, Emily Paul, Jennifer O'Neill, just to name but a few.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that as well because it's forming your own collaboration and community.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what would you say has been your favourite part about having your own podcast?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: As someone who sits on a podcast as well, I know that it can be so rewarding when you put something out there and someone reaches out and goes, Oh, this episode really helped me with something.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had any little favorite moments like that?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's been loads.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the amount of people that will email me and say or message me, they generally message me on Instagram say, I've just set up my first ICER.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Result.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that is really rewarding.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: But equally, then recently we had some somebody met one of the listeners message me on Instagram with a question.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's such a good question.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you come on the podcast and ask us?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: So now that they're they're coming to us and asking the questions, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know about this.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do an episode on that?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's just like, okay, there's an appetite for it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: But people taking action.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many women that have got ISIS now because of us.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think having an impact through a podcast is a different level of impact because you sometimes just don't realise how far a podcast travels.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I call people up about their CV and I mention the podcast Financial Planner Life, and they go, Oh, yeah, Sam Oakes and Elena and Charlie.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yes, that's me.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what would your advice be to somebody sat there listening right now who works in financial planning, or maybe someone who's aspiring to join, you think, Oh, I'd actually love to get involved in a podcast.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: What would your advice be to somebody looking to make that step?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Start a podcast, it's a lot easier than you think.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think it might have been a year before I started it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Someone was suggesting it to me, and I said, categorically, I'm never doing that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: No way, that is too much like hard work not doing it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so much easier than you think it is.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, oh, give it a go.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're listening to this, you think, right, she's saying that easy.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really easy?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Drop me a message, I will talk you through how easy it is.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, financial planner life started on Zoom in lockdown with Sam.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: A similar sort of story to yourself, really.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is that easy, and it's, I think the first one's the hardest, and you just got to keep going forward.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you mentioned as well, Julie, obviously, we've covered that you are a financial planner, self-employed, you found your niche working with women who've lost their husbands, you're passionate about keeping women in the profession, you have your own podcast, educating women about finance, and you mentioned that you've also done a coaching qualification.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, talk us through what this coaching qualification is and what triggered you to pursue it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so at the start of lockdown, I did Catherine Morgan's financial coach training and I enjoyed that, but then I thought I wanted next level ninja coach skills because it's that all about keeping the job interesting, and it goes back to I can remember driving to a client client meeting once and I listened to a podcast interview with Mitch Anthony, and he was talking about how I think it's the story he gives about the golfers that end up in antidepressants three years after retiring.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's because you know they've worked hard all their life, it's a really sort of mentally challenging occupation, and then to just stop and just play golf all the time, no, after three years, you're you're depressed and you're bored out your skull.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, that's being a shit financial advisor.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get to be a really good financial advisor?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, well, that's by finding out what clients really want and when they want it, because they all think they want to retire at 60 with three or four thousand pounds a month.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a real goal.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's how do we find out what's really important to them and what really drives them?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went and did the ICF coaching qualification to give me those ninja next level questioning skills.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And how has it transformed conversations with clients?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: You oh wow, like massively, yeah, massively.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because one thing, and I think a lot of advisors lesson to this will relate.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: When you see clients go through retirement, so much of our identity is tied in with what we do.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then you lose your identity when you retire.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like that can really be a really big adjustment for people.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: But the coaching skills I have now about how to work with people, the things to ask them, the exercises to get them to think about, it's making all these transitions that all my clients are making a lot smoother.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about really getting to the heart about what brings meaning to their life.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: And retiring age sexy with three or four thousand pounds a month doesn't bring meaning to anyone that I've met.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's it's made my job more fun for me and my clients.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's made me better at what I do as well.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And was it easy doing the qualification alongside working for somebody who might be considering it?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Was it how long did it take?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Was it something that you had to really separate the time for?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or was it quite, you know, I guess if you're enthusiastic about it, sometimes you just jump straight in, don't you?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it took me about six months, and then it was about like the the coaching sessions and the learnings were maybe about three hours a week.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have to clock up so many hours with clients coaching them.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think what I liked about the ICF, and this is probably because I'm a regular from a regulated background, is they are really bloody strict with the competencies and the things and the way that you have to do it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have to set an ethics exam as well.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I quite I thought it's it's given it credibility.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was giving and I just I don't know, I just really loved it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as well, I've spoken to many financial planners who, you know, I know people who do values-based financial planning, and obviously there's the holistic side of it.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think money is something which it matters to a lot of people, but people tend to draw away from saying they care about money because they don't want to be materialistic, or at least my generation do.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it gives you the freedom to do what you want.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing we are I ask as a recruiter sometimes is I'm like, right, you've come to me and you say you want a 10 grand uplift.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: What does that money mean to you?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you looking for that uplift?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I start to understand their motivators of why they're looking to move.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they want to settle down, they want to buy a house with their girlfriend, or maybe they've just had a 10-week-old baby and they really need to buy a, you know, put start putting some serious money away.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you get to the real crux of it, not just, oh, I want 10 grand extra.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it sounds almost a bit empty, but when you get that emotion in there, um, and it brings the human-to-human element into it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for me as a recruiter, I love that human-to-human element.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, I wouldn't do anything else other than having that, those conversations with people.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's what pushes me forward.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's the same for a lot of financial planners is building those relationships and being able to see under the hood of someone who comes in and go, actually, we're we're kind of similar.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I care about some of the same things as you do.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I probably wouldn't even, you know, I'd probably pass you in the supermarket and not think twice, you know.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just one of those things where you get to connect with people on a whole different level.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so for yourself, you've got a lot of passions, um, Julie.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you're mega passionate about that we've not touched upon?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's only one other thing, Charlie.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll behave for this one, okay.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other thing that I'm quite passionate about is transparency and fees.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Very topical.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just roll my sleeves up now.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm joking.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I agree.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Transparency and fees, it's very topical.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you've not been on LinkedIn in the last couple of weeks, months, it's the it's on everyone's lips.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So share your thoughts away, Julie.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: The floor is yours.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, just by accident at the start of lockdown, I discovered that I find setting my fees a lot easier than many other advisors.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so they they started coming to me asking me, How do you do what you do?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: And realize, oh, actually, I can teach other advisors how to do this.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I coach other advisors around their fees.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the transparency thing is important to me because I did vote no, by the way, on the LinkedIn poll.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Even though I am for having them on your website, I don't think it should be compulsory.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I could remember going back whenever the very first Next Gen conference was, they had a woman there speaking who was from Sainsbury's, and she she gave a really good talk.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end, the advisors were asking a question.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the questions was, Do you have a financial advisor?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And she replied, No.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, Okay, well, why don't you have a financial advisor?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: So bearing in mind, this is someone quite senior in Sainsbury's, so they're on a reasonable salary.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: She'd never approached one of us because she was worried that she didn't have enough money to justify us, and she was worried the fear was that she would be rejected.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, holy smoke, how many people aren't approaching us because they've got this fear that we're going to reject them, that they're not good enough.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think I think it's such a big barrier to people accessing us.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think if they felt comfortable having an idea of what it is we charge, they're like, okay, right, let's go find out more about this.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's lots of arguments from why we shouldn't do it, but I am an advocate that I can't think of a situation where more transparency isn't a good thing.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I always have quite an interesting opinion on this because I fell into financial planning through a careers aspect.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I would agree that as somebody considering, you know, if I was to consider a financial advisor, a financial planner, I would instantly go, oh my gosh, I don't have enough money.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't, or I don't know how much it's going to cost.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can't see that on the website, I'm from the generation where, you know, part of my day job is picking up the phone.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: But in my personal life, if I can't see it in front of me on the information on the website, chances are I'm not going to inquire any further because it's just, you know, we're used to seeing things online.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think our generation, and that's the next generation of wealth coming through.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: We live online, we're a very digital generation.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think transparency in fees, it's no one wants to talk about, oh, this is how much you're going to pay me.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's a service that you're offering.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also knowing your worth and knowing what you're bringing to the table as a financial planner.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Being transparent in your fees and knowing what you're worth and putting it out there lets people see, okay, fab, this is what Julie's offering, this is what it involves.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And transparency allows people to make those clear objective decisions that bring them to that financial freedom.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's nothing worse than going into something and then there's no fees, there's no mention of fees, and all of a sudden at the end of it, it's like big bill for you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no one wants to be, you know, come out the other end and go, I didn't see that coming.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, I absolutely agree.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something very topical.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you, when coaching financial planners about it, what are the typical barriers and struggles that they encounter?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what is your advice to those commonplaced struggles?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think there are two aspects of it.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is just my opinion, and it's probably, you know, I'm quite prepared to accept that I'm wrong.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we there's a lot of advisors that still haven't got themselves off of the commission drug.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, 11 years ago, everybody's running around charging more or less three plus a half.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, let's say everybody's now running around charging one plus one or whatever.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Who the hell said percentages were a good idea?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was the life companies and the fund groups.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like the fact that we're still so hung up on percentages.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think one of the big challenges that the advisors that I work with is first of all, trying to figure out is that the best way for me to be operating?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of them don't want to be on percentages anymore.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: They want to be in pounds, but they don't know how to transition.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the worry is like, am I doing myself out of money?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is my business about to take a revenue hit if I do this?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that is a legitimate concern.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm the people that come to me, they want to move away from percentages, just not sure how to do it.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: The other challenge, and this is the most common one I see, is the they're I'm reluctant to say it, but it's self-worth.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: The dialogue though, because there's two aspects.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's a practical side, how do we build a fee structure?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's how do we communicate it?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: And when we get to the communicating button, it's like the dialogue that's going on in advisors' heads.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I know because I've had it as well, is they won't pay that, I can't charge that, they'll go somewhere else, I'll lose that client.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or something that I've done, and I know everybody that's worked with me has done, is like you're sitting with a client and you have a fee in your head, and somehow between the distance from there, your head, and it coming out your mouth, it changed.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: It got smaller.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was two and a half thousand in my head, it's come out of 1500.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: How did that happen?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it is this is all tied into how we think and how we feel about what we do.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's having that confidence as well.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it probably comes with time.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, over time you're able to have that level of communication.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think if somebody's, you know, a year into giving advice as a financial advisor, it's a little bit more nerve-wracking.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same with any job.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, pushing forward, and I think coaching as well, people tend to forget once you've got your diploma, there's still so much more you can do to bolster your studies.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's still so many soft skills you can improve upon and so many different learning techniques around everything.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know NextGen does some fantastic, fantastic stuff around that as well.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think as well, for yourself, Julie, looking forward at the profession, what would you say to the next generation coming through?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone aspiring to be a financial planner, what would your advice be to them in entering the profession in 2023?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: My advice would be innovate.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: People are going to tell you it won't work and it can't be done, and they might be right, but wouldn't you rather find out for yourself?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think I think the the the world has changed so much, and you've alluded to your generation and how you think and how you interact with money that how we did things 20 years ago is not going to work in 20 years' time.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think let's let's experiment, let's innovate.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we're gonna have failure.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Failures, but we're also going to have some standout wins as well.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: So when people tell you it won't work, take on board what they're saying, but go and do it anyway.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you uh don't push yourself out there to try, you know, don't be afraid of that failure, don't let the fear creep in.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know as well, to sort of leave it on a very topical note.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think we briefly spoke about AI, didn't we, when we were on the phone.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And as someone who I work in a service industry, people say, Oh, you could have an AI recruiter.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you could quite have an AI podcast host.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: That could be quite interesting.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: But people also say the same about a financial planner.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, this could be replaced by AI.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts around AI, artificial intelligence, and where do you see the positives of this in the profession?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because personally, I don't think AI is going to take my job because I just won't let it.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think humans are going to let their jobs go that easily.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think generationally, you know, when the radio came in, probably people probably went, Oh, look at people wasting their time sat around a radio, they should be reading a book.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then when the TVs came in, they probably went, Oh, look at those people watching TV, they should be listening to the radio.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the internet came in and they did it the exact same.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just the changing of the times that I do think it will free up a lot of time, but I don't think humans are just going to let it take their job.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I'd love to know your thoughts.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm already using AI and harness in its power.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely bloody love it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, to give you an example, is it last week?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had to write suitability report and explain what a guaranteed annuity rate was.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I can do it, it'll be clunky, but I would rather ask Chat GPT to do it better than I can.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just saved me a load of time and is taking care of it.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also like using Claude.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: I find Claude a bit friendlier than chat.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I find myself having proper conversations with Claude and I say please and thank you.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um so from that point of view, like saving time and harnessing the power of it.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I use another one, Cast Magic, for the podcast.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely brilliant.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is it going to replace me?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's freeing up my time to get even better at the aspects of what I do that only a human can do.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely that.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you said, freeing up your time that allowed you, you know, to go through with that qualification, that coaching qualification, to spend more time with your clients, to also have that work-life balance that you so passionately, you know, foresaw all those years ago for yourself.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, for myself, Julie, I've thoroughly enjoyed having you on the podcast here today.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is so much that you shared with us, and there was a lot of honesty um and vulnerability in what you were sharing with us today.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for coming on and sharing your true self with us.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, about being unapologetically and unashamedly you in and out of work.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for joining us today, Julie.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you very much, everyone, for listening at home.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like Julie said, if you've got any questions for her, you can find her on LinkedIn.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's where I found her.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find exactly what she gets up to and pick her brain over fee structures, financial coaching, and everything else that we've discussed here today.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, thank you very much for having me, Charlie.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bab.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Julie.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: So without uh further ado, I think I've said that about five times now, Tristan, and I think I say in the introduction with her.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll just I'll just cut it there, probably.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um