Latest / Authentic Living / Caring for the Mental Health of Our Youth with Mental Health Practitioner, Natasha Halliday

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Caring for the Mental Health of Our Youth with Mental Health Practitioner, Natasha Halliday · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we conscious conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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Thanks for tuning in again to Authentique Living with Roxanne.
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Today, I have a colleague in Natasha Holiday.
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And she's a child and youth care practitioner.
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Hi, Natasha.
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How are you today?
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I'm great.
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Thanks.
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How are you, Roxanne?
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So Natasha and I are colleagues, were, both professional speakers at, the Canadian
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Association of Professional speakers.
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And, you know, the issue of, child mental health is is something and child and youth
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mental health is something that I know is we we hear about it a lot.
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We talk about it a lot and Unfortunately, we we've been seeing more incidences with mental
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health, related concerns.
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So that's why I wanted Natasha to kinda come on and chat about it.
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So, Tasha, kinda kinda tell tell us how you kinda got going in the field.
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Like, what made you want to get into the arena and and helping, children and, young adults?
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Funny enough, I knew I always knew as the young person that I wanted to be in a helping
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profession, what that looked like.
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I wasn't quite sure.
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I was leaning between psychology and a lawyer, and, my big sister wanted to be a child
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psychologist.
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And so I thought, okay.
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I'll just do what she's doing.
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And initially started as a psychology major, and then got word of a child youth worker
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program at, at Centennial College or, and I applied to that.
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I ended up going first out to Algonquin in Ottawa, to start school, but I ended up working
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in in the child and youth care field that way.
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And, just really felt right at home.
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Like, this was what I knew I was supposed to do working with young people.
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I got a specific interest for acute mental health and was very fortunate to get a job in a
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hospital very early in my career.
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And that's kind of where I stayed since I've done other types of work.
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I've taught in the child and youth care program at, Centennial College.
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But I really just love working in acute mental health with young people who are facing a
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variety of mental health issues and just the things that I see my passion just continues,
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and the flame has always led for me to do whatever I can to be of help to young people
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and their families facing mental health issues.
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So tell me, like, I mean, you've been doing this quite a while now.
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Yep.
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Do you would you say that mental health concerns with younger people on the rise, or is
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it just that we're knowing more about it?
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I always wonder about that.
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Right?
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Like, is it that it's always kind of been there?
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And now we have knowledge and we have channels to because of where it's happening, or is it
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definitely on the increase?
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I think one, I think that's a great question because it's something that I often raise to
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people when they say oh, it's increasing.
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And I said, I don't know if we really know that for sure.
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I think we have language that we didn't have before.
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So a young person experiencing symptoms of depression, symptoms of anxiety, OCD, any
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number of things may not have realize this was something they could seek help for, something
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that needed to be addressed, and they would suffer in silence potentially.
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And so I think any number of young people years years ago could have been facing these issues
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without any help.
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And now we're getting to a point where the languages there for people to be able to
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identify it without having expertise to recognize it enough to say that may be
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something that you need to seek some help with.
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On top of that, I think that, we're facing a generation that isn't quite as resilient as
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young people used to be.
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And that can lead to any number of mental health issues.
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The expectation that you get what you want when you want without working for it has kind of
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been Unfortunately, how in in North America, how we're raising our children.
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And so when reality hits and it's not like that and life throws you the punches that it does, I
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sometimes I feel that our young people are less equipped to deal with the hard blows of life.
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So I think there's a combination of things lead to the mental health issues on top of things
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like hereditary.
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I think many people were raised by a generation of people who had mental health issues and what
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they were never addressed.
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And so there's environment that they experience on top of their own life circumstances that can
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lead to mental health issues.
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Whether there's a rise, I'm not really sure.
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I do know that in the work that I've done, there's an increase in young people, coming to
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hospital seeking admission.
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But again, that is a combination, I think, of there being need and also being recognition of
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where to go now, knowing that there are hospital programs now where they may not have
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been before.
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So the inpatient unit model has, I think there was maybe 4, 5 inpatient units if that in the
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GTA 25 years ago, and maybe general hospitals were operating out of pediatrics, and very few
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outpatient clinics And then the rest was community based, but now there's, you know,
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every few general hospitals will have an adolescent unit and an outpatient program.
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And so there's many more places that people can go and seek the help that they need.
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Let's talk a little bit about resilience, and you touched on that.
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And I actually just, interviewed someone, not too long about, marginalized populations.
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In young adults.
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Right?
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So you're saying that people are definitely more less resilient compared to say maybe a a
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potentially a generation ago.
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What kind of factors are you seeing that would say that they're less resilience compared to
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say maybe you know, your generation or my generation before that.
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So what I can speak to is what I see, and I don't have any hard facts or statistics on any
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of this stuff.
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In the 18 years that I've worked in inpatient adolescent mental health, I've seen a range of
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young people coming and presenting with thoughts of suicide, having faced very
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significant trauma, very significant hardship, And while that still exists, there's a
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propensity for it to be that and include what on a surface level may seem quite minor.
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And so there's that presentation of I'm upset by something.
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I never expected that life could upset me.
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I don't know how to handle it.
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Well, then I might as well end my life.
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And when you start talking to them, I've I've often talked to young people and I what I call
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the language of suicide and teaching young people that when you're hurting, learn to
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express, I'm in pain, and I don't know what to do.
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Versus I want to end my life.
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Because when you start to dig, it's not always true thoughts of wanting life to be over.
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It may just be I don't want it to be like this, and I don't know.
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I don't see any other way out.
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And so even in that difference in the language, it changes maybe how it's approached.
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But I have seen an increase in young people expressing high levels of devastation over
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seemingly superficial things.
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And I say seemingly because it's not my job to decide what should make somebody upset.
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I just know I've seen a change in the things that are triggering young people to be quite
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upset and to struggle a lot.
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And so I think that's one of the areas I see it.
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Like I said, I've taught in the college, and I've seen a difference in how the students
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presented over the years there as well.
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There is an expectation that their presence is enough for me at some level.
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And the the idea or the understanding that you have to put the work into it is is not always
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there.
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A more extreme example, I had a young a young person present me with the report card and
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showed me that she had always gotten nays and challenged me on not giving her nay.
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And so I said to her, well, there was an assignment that was worth 25% of your mark.
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You did not submit it.
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What kind of math could I do to give you an because that's an automatic 75 if you get
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perfect in everything else.
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And she paused and she goes, oh, yeah.
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I guess I can't get any.
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But I think at when we talked more, what I was seeing was the a for her was a reflection of
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her what I thought.
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When I validated, she was a brilliant young woman, that she was quite capable.
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She seemed quite relieved, and so she was there was part of it was taking in that what my
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grades are is telling me what you think of me, but I'm like, my your grades are reflective of
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the work you do.
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I'm not personalizing this.
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But it was just also that expectation.
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Well, I always get a's, so I should get a's.
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I should get an a this time.
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But did you do a level work?
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If you don't do a fullest assignment work, a quarter percentage of your mark.
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It is impossible for me to give you an a.
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So I I think, you know, and I've also talked college University.
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And, you know, I started to teach right after I got out of consulting again, and that's what I
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also found is was that there was an entitlement
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Yes.
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And entitled men mentality.
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And I I was thinking about my time and my tenure, which is a little ways back, and I
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thought I always the the my learnings work try really, really hard, and your your input equals
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outcome.
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And that was something that I definitely was seeing that a lot of the, students that I was
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teaching at the college level were struggling with.
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Yeah.
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And I think that the the this it propensity for entitlement that we're seeing goes hand in hand
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with, this decrease in resilience.
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Yeah.
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Because entitlement teaches you that you don't have to do the work to get the results.
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Mhmm.
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And it's it's it's all it's living in a cushioned state all the time.
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And I think that's where we're we're doing a disservice to our young people is having them
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understand that or leading them to understand that there's not gonna be challenges because
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life will challenge you.
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Mhmm.
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And so what I've seen is an increase in parental involvement up to a college level.
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The parents are still trying to do it.
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And then eventually, mom and dad have to step back and that young persons left not knowing
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how to navigate themselves through the world as an adult.
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Because they've been it's been taken care of for them.
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And so they struggle with that.
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And I think that is part of why we see a decrease in the resilience.
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I understand parents want to do everything they can to give their young people a good life.
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But if that does not include an understanding, that life will present challenges, and this is
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how we face challenge.
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We often are doing a disservice.
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It's almost like I I often say it's like the pendulum have swung too far.
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Right?
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It's almost like, you know, your parents didn't my parents didn't have, so therefore, they they
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swung the pendulum so so far that to some degree, the parents are trying to save the
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child from experiencing potentially some things that they went through that was tough for them.
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Right?
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Not recognizing what they developed out of having faced those things.
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And it's not to say you want to throw your your child into adversity But if you have them
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thinking they'll never face adversity when it does come, then they're they're not equipped to
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deal.
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Anna, and that's so true.
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Right?
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Because it it of the little lessons you kinda learned along the way, I think of when I was
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growing up and, you know, I was in this race And, you know, it's just so funny, but I think
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about it now, and it was such a devastating thing to me.
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And I didn't do very well because the the course was not quite, outlined the way it
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should have been.
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And I remember being completely devastated.
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I'm eleven years old.
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I'm a pretty good runner, and I'm just like flated.
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And I remember my parents saying, what's up?
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It's a race.
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It's not a big deal.
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You tried your best.
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You know, sometimes things go wrong, and it it definitely did go wrong.
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But, you know, in my little heart, that was just my world was kicking in at sports day.
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Like, really?
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And and then, you know, you felt the pain, obviously, because you, you know, you did do as
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well as you wanted, but you you that's such a small thing, but in retrospect, now as an
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adult, you kind of think, oh, yeah.
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I I was upset.
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Was it painful?
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Yes.
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Was I sad?
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Yes.
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But then it did I get over it?
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Absolutely.
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I got over it, but I had to give that myself that time to kinda upset about it, but then it
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it was fine again.
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But I think you're probably right.
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You know, with the helicoptering that we see, kids get jobs ready young, but our parents
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teaching him some of those core basic skills to really kind of fall down fall down, bruise your
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knee quite literally figuratively speaking, sitting there in it for a while to reflect on
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it instead of kind of picking them up and helping them along.
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Right.
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Well, the the interesting thing is I recently heard the new term is now, snow plow parenting.
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So we moved from, you know, the bubble wrap where it was.
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I'm gonna try and shelter you from all of it.
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To now Stowe Plough parenting is the idea that I'm gonna remove every obstacle I see out of
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your way.
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And you just go this perfectly paved line that you that doesn't include these hardships, but
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it can't always be done.
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And I think what what's great about your example is your parents address.
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Yeah.
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It's not the end of the world.
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And so at 11, you already started to learn.
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Things are gonna happen that I don't like.
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Mhmm.
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But that's okay.
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It's not gonna be the end of my world, and I'm not I don't have to be shattered by it.
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And we the difference is when young people are not given that information in a healthy way.
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Sometimes they're devastated by things that don't necessarily need to devastate.
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Or what happens is they get stuck in a pattern of I'm not okay with this.
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And it's not that I'm not okay with this, but that happens in life.
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And so how do I move on?
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Sometimes what's missing is the how do I move on peace?
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Wow.
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And the slow plowing effect, that's interesting.
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Right?
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Because I often say We have kids getting jobs at 15.
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Right?
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So we have kids, you know, driving cars.
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They're they're making decisions.
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They're having bank accounts.
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But this emotional almost like a tally, if we're trying to have them not experience that
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and we've put them out.
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I, you know, I've done lot of work with, universities on the psychological end.
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And what I'm what I found was that sometimes in 1st year university, developmentally,
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emotionally and and and cognitively, even though their kids are capable of doing the
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work, they're not emotionally level, at a level to be able to deal with the pressures that are
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coming from being away from home for the first time.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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That's where we see a big difference because it's a a big change.
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Yep.
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You know, I I did that.
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I I went to high school and I was determined to go away.
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Because I was spoiled, and I knew it.
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And I was an old soul who I thought, I'm only gonna grow up if I go away from home.
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And that's precisely what I did, but it was a challenge.
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And what what helped me was we developed our community amongst our friends because so many
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of us were away from home.
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Mhmm.
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But I was able to make good connections that kept me levelheaded rather than probably losing
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my mind, like, some of my peers.
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But it's you know, that was one of the things that taught me connection is how you keep your
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yourself balanced.
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I learned that fairly young because I had beautiful connections in my childhood and in my
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early in my adolescence.
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And then I went away and I learned again, create connection.
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So when I was having rough time, my my 2nd year of university, one of our peers was was killed.
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Oh, no.
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And had we not had that community amongst ourselves?
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I don't know what we would have done.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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And so we learned very, in a very tough way, show up for one another and have people to lean
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on.
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So it was the family's only child, they had to go to a town that they weren't living in for
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the trial.
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And we made sure that there was always somebody there with a pair.
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Mhmm.
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And at 19 and at 20, that was the group of young people that I was connected to who had
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that ability to build connections that way.
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And so it taught me something about, my supports and how I cope with things required
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being connected to people.
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And it was a tough way to learn that lesson, but a beautiful lesson at the same time.
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That connection is part of how you keep yourself going when you're having a rough time.
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Because to your point, we're all life's gonna bring us pain.
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That's that's the reality of life.
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And I think I I think we've forgotten that in the west.
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I think that's a basic thing.
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It doesn't have to be suffering.
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I often say we will all go through pain, but it need not be suffering.
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And then because we're we're cushioning the kids so much, Right?
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Because we're trying to be these perfect parents, which none of us are, that maybe some
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of the basic things about, learning about pain are being taken away from young kids.
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Yeah.
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And then they're going off.
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They're less connected.
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We know that it's everything's instant gratification.
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All their connections are now more, online.
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They're not going out and really sitting across from each other as much.
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They're having to learn some of the basic skills, attending skills to be able to connect
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with others.
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And if they're not doing that as they kinda go through their years of growing up, and they go
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away from home to your point.
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Resilience is going towards even though I feel like being alone, even though I feel like
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sitting in my pain, even though I feel like feeling sorry for myself.
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If I talk to someone else, if I spend some time with someone else, generally, I feel better.
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But if if you're not kind of seeing that modeled or you're practicing it as your when
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your kid, it's kinda harder to do it when you're all kinda off, like like you said, in a
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little town where you're com completely new.
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Yeah.
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I often my my biggest or my most common used analogy for resilience, I I often compare it
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to, being in the rain with an umbrella.
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Okay.
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So life is gonna there's gonna be rain.
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Mhmm.
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I don't have to I I'm not always in a position where I completely can remove myself from the
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rain.
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But if I stand outside the rain with an umbrella, I'm not affected by it in the same
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way.
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And I think this is what we have to be able to teach people is instead of always avoiding rain
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because that's not always possible.
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Here's an umbrella.
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Here's how to use it.
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Mhmm.
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And understanding that you can in the midst of something difficult or unpleasant, create
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safeguards so that it doesn't have you don't get dredged.
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Like you would if you didn't have an umbrella.
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And so that's what I aim to teach people is how do you I understand.
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Yes.
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I may I may face a hardship, but there's safeguards that I can put in place so that may
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not have the same detrimental effect on me.
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Now let's talk a little bit on the parenting end and talk about when you have these kids
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that are coming in And ideally, you know, we work from, a psychotherapist and and mental
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health practitioners.
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We work from a frame of, securely attached parenting, which is ideal.
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Right?
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We want every parent to be able to know how to hold on and to let go and let the child be and
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and learn.
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Right?
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But, unfortunately, I could say that most most people have not had perfect parenting and not
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that we're looking for perfection, but sometimes the stability to be able to allow the
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child to go through the stages to kinda come out the other end knowing who they are and what
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their internal resources are.
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Right.
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So when you have kids coming in, how is it that you deal with the parents Obviously, they're
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already.
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I would think that they're probably in crisis if their kids in crisis.
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Absolutely.
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How do you kind of find out the patterns and some of the things that they may be doing and
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deliver some information that would tell them that they need to shift some things.
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Well, I think that a big part of working with young people, and it's been amazing because
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I've worked in hospitals for, I said, like, 18 years.
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And so working with maybe a nurse or a social worker who had worked with solely adults prior,
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they're often amazed by how much more time it takes work with young people, children, and
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adolescents.
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And I said, because you have more more people to talk to.
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So I might be teaching skills to a young person, but if I don't teach it to the home
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environment, then it's often lost.
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Mhmm.
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Right?
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It's just like if I were taking piano lessons, I have to practice at home to be able to go
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back to the to piano studio and be able to play at a certain level.
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And the same goes for the for the mental health piece.
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If I'm teaching a young person coping skills and, you know, how to be more resilient, If I'm
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not providing their families with that same education on some level, then the parents feel
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helpless.
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They don't feel that they can reinforce what the young person has learned.
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In therapy or through some kind of form of treatment.
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They don't necessarily have the language.
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So when their child is trying to speak to them about it, it, you know, they don't necessarily
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know how to respond.
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And it may be even when I found in teaching parents about how to support their young
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person, Sometimes it's new teaching for them too, and it gives them a framework to help
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shift their own lives to be able to move so that the in their own practice, in their own
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life, they can look at how do I take these things on so that I can operate in a way that's
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gonna be helpful to myself, but also helpful to those around you.
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So it's very important to understand that.
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And, again, we're looking at ideals having the family unit involved, whatever that family unit
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looks like, whether it's 1 pair, 2 parents, 4 parents, because it's a blended family, if
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grandparents are involved because we live in a very multiple cultural society and grandparents
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are often in the home.
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Whoever's in the home, siblings, what commit Each person learn a little results so that
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they're able to support that young person who is facing that mental health issue.
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That's a key part.
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Right.
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And I often say that sometimes it's the, you know, your patients is the person that's
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holding the symptoms sometimes for what's happening at home.
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And then and then just, you know, trying to have people really listen, you know, to witty
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what's going on.
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I I recently, a little while back, so seven year old.
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And, he was very, very anxious.
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Right?
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And he would have these meltdowns at school.
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And then, of course, he would be, labeled.
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You know?
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They would say his behavior.
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1st
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of all,
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the underlying anxiety.
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Right.
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And then eventually, he came in, and then I started to see teach him some things.
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And I didn't then I I wanted to see the entire family, and the father said to me on the way
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in, Well, I don't need therapy.
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And I said, oh, of course, you don't.
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I said, but, you know, it's just kind of important to talk to everyone.
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And then, of course, sure enough, when we start to really just open up the conversation, the
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first born had no problems.
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Yeah.
23:25
And was more a little bit tougher.
23:27
The second one wasn't as tough.
23:29
And then we could kinda see how that played out in the family system.
23:33
And then we just kinda opened up their communication between each other.
23:37
And then before you know it, you just kinda step aside in his case, could step aside, you
23:41
know, we kinda made sure that what he was doing with me, was replicated at school.
23:45
We used the same kind of cues.
23:47
Around what he was learning.
23:49
So his teacher knew, and then the parents did the same, and then the siblings.
23:52
The parents kind of supported the siblings to kinda be treated the same.
23:56
And then before, you know, it didn't naturally it started to be a a a a a wheel that was kind
24:03
of turning again.
24:05
Yeah.
24:05
You know, so it's it's collapsing sometimes.
24:07
So silos sometimes develops in families too.
24:12
And and this is this is one of the challenges of working with young people is that we even
24:17
treat in silos.
24:19
So if a young person's facing anxiety, but also has some substance use, that may be 2 separate
24:24
services that aren't communicating with one another.
24:27
Mhmm.
24:27
And so there's maybe some duplication of stuff, but there may be some contradiction
24:30
potentially.
24:31
And if that's not being addressed, that's probably very confusing for a young person.
24:35
For young people listening, if they are having struggles.
24:39
Right?
24:40
And oftentimes people don't wanna talk to people like you and I.
24:43
Right?
24:43
They're like, oh, I don't I don't wanna talk about problems or don't wanna talk about those
24:47
things called feelings.
24:48
My cell now says, oh my god, mom.
24:50
Are you gonna make me talk about your my feelings?
24:52
I go, well, guess what?
24:53
Then he goes great.
24:56
How and but, obviously, they're struggling.
24:57
Right?
24:58
They have a lot of different pressures.
24:59
They have peer pressure.
25:00
They, you know, they have pressures to use substances.
25:03
They have, you know, all to try things.
25:06
And but they're but they're struggling, but they're not sure how to feel better.
25:10
What kind of things would you kind of start to suggest to them that they could maybe start
25:14
trying or strategies that they could maybe start to think about to to start feeling a
25:20
little bit better.
25:22
Obviously, it would depend on where where the struggles are at, but I I think that, you know,
25:28
each person is an expert of themselves.
25:30
They know who they truly are.
25:32
And starting with, if you know you're not, if something's taking away from who you truly are,
25:38
what do you think the reason is?
25:41
Do you find that your mood's low?
25:42
Do you find that you worry a lot?
25:43
Do you find that you feel, very nervous or, you know, any number of those things?
25:48
And looking at what sort of things help you feel better and the things that help you feel
25:54
better, are they actually helpful to you?
25:56
Mhmm.
25:57
I might feel better not going to work on a day that I'm feeling a bit bummed out.
26:01
But if I repeat that, then I may not be able to earn the income I need to survive in my life.
26:06
So there are things that sometimes feel better in the immediate, but not over long term is is
26:11
helpful to you, such as things like substance use.
26:14
So we have to evaluate are the things that help us feel better if they're truly helpful on a
26:19
bigger picture.
26:20
But I would often just recommend that young person start with Who do you feel comfortable
26:25
talking to?
26:26
If you don't feel comfortable going to a professional, who do you feel comfortable going
26:30
to and start there?
26:31
And it can maybe that person join you to go to a professional if that's what's needed or check
26:38
it out.
26:38
I I I have young people laugh all the time because I sit down with them and I said,
26:42
finding a therapist is like finding the perfect pair of jeans.
26:45
You're not gonna put the first person pair on, and it always fits.
26:49
Right?
26:49
So I think I'm I like to give young people permission to understand that we're human
26:54
beings, and that we're not gonna click with everybody.
26:57
And this is therapy and treatment is an environment where you need to feel safe and
27:01
comfortable.
27:02
So if for whatever reason our personalities just don't gel, then maybe I'm not the right
27:07
fit.
27:08
Mhmm.
27:08
And I can and I'm I'd rather you be honest with me about that.
27:13
So that you can find the right fit so you can get the treatment you need rather than try to
27:17
spare my feelings.
27:18
Because at the end of the day, what's important is that young person living the best life they
27:22
can.
27:23
And so they have to be able to feel connected to that source of help.
27:27
And recognizing that help comes in many different forms.
27:30
It doesn't always mean going to a psychiatrist or a psychologist.
27:34
Or human therapist, there's some really fantastic apps that might help a young person
27:40
just develop more appropriate coping skills or be able to track their mood.
27:44
To get an idea of.
27:45
You know what?
27:46
Oh, I didn't even realize till I was paying more attention to it, just how low my mood was.
27:50
But any number of things that they can reach out to.
27:53
It's helpful to talk to friends, but understanding friends are not necessarily
27:58
equipped to help on a certain level.
28:01
So it's good to have your connections, but, you know, at a certain point, you need to evaluate.
28:06
Do I need to talk to a professional about this?
28:09
And looking at where to start, do I start with my family doctor?
28:13
Do I start with talking to somebody at my school?
28:17
If you're in post secondary school, there's often wellness centers that are, attached to
28:21
the schools where they have people you can get connected to.
28:25
And if they don't feel they're the right fit, they're gonna let you know as well.
28:28
Mhmm.
28:28
But start by by being open about it, talking to somebody, going where you feel safe, and take
28:34
it step by step.
28:36
It's not an easy process.
28:37
I always I I'm so grateful.
28:39
I've worked, a crisis role in a merge where people are usually coming in crisis.
28:43
So they're open because they're in crisis, but I appreciate, that it's not easy meeting of
28:49
strangers saying, hey.
28:50
Here's my stuff.
28:51
And that's, that there's a a level of trust that goes into that and a level of
28:56
vulnerability that I don't at all take for granted because I know if I had to share my
29:02
story with somebody, I'd wanna feel that I've shared it in the right place and that I felt
29:06
safe to do so.
29:08
And so every time somebody does it with me, I I I'm usually telling them how thankful I am that
29:13
they they were able to do that because it's not an easy thing to do.
29:17
Sometimes people find just by talking and saying things out loud, they start to feel a
29:21
bit better.
29:22
Having that acknowledgement yet yes, that would be hard to deal with.
29:25
That would be painful to experience because sometimes they feel they're completely alone in
29:30
it.
29:30
Right.
29:31
For sure.
29:32
Sometimes that's a good place to start and understand that, you know, no.
29:37
I'm not the only one who's experienced this, and this may be a way to get connected to other
29:42
people, whether through it's a group or just having that fear verified through that
29:48
professional, whoever, that this is something that people experience and it doesn't make you
29:52
abnormal and actually is part of your being a human being.
29:56
But here's what we can do to try to help you so that you don't have to feel that bad if feeling
30:00
bad.
30:01
So just just taking a risk, thinking of who's supportive and just reaching out and then
30:07
gauging that support as you reach out to see whether it's gonna help you or not and whether
30:11
it's positive or not.
30:13
Yeah.
30:13
For parents listening.
30:14
Right?
30:14
And because we are seeing so much more, you know, issues.
30:19
You see the, you know, kind of the mental health concerns with teens and suicides and,
30:24
you know, you know, fentanyl and you know, all those substances that people are using out
30:29
there.
30:30
I would say that a lot of parents are scared.
30:32
Would would you agree with that?
30:33
Absolutely.
30:35
So if a parent's struggling with their teenagers, let's say they're dabbling, or
30:41
they're kinda being a bit more reclusive.
30:46
Are there some things or things that you would suggest if you could speak to parents about
30:50
some things that they could do?
30:52
First, I wanna acknowledge that parents are in a particularly challenging position because
30:57
seeing your young person may need help is, like, trying to get a child to eat their
31:01
vegetables.
31:02
You know what the benefit is, but it doesn't mean you can always get them to do it.
31:06
So parents are faced with recognizing something because they're they're sitting from the
31:11
outside.
31:12
When you're inside of an experience, you may not always see it in the same way.
31:16
And they're sitting from the outside, and they're recognizing that there's an issue.
31:20
And recognizing it doesn't mean that their child or their young person is gonna agree that
31:26
something be done about it.
31:28
Yeah.
31:28
If there is substance use, it may not be something that the young person feels needs to
31:32
be addressed.
31:33
They may feel that I'm totally okay.
31:35
I don't have a It's not at a level that anybody would call abuse or misuse.
31:41
And so I think parents are often caught between that knowledge that there's something that
31:46
needs to be addressed and that ability to get it addressed.
31:49
On top of, you know, not always having access to information once the services start.
31:55
But again, I would say for parents, have open dialogue with your young people.
32:02
You know, sometimes people are appalled at what a young person might feel comfortable telling
32:06
their their parents, thinking, well, you're you're not parenting well, but I think it's
32:10
beautiful when a young person can say, I'm doing something that my mom or dad might not
32:14
agree with, but I know if I tell them that they're still gonna love I think that's an
32:18
amazing thing to be able to share that and not fear so much, chastisement from it that they're
32:25
they're just not telling them at all.
32:26
Because when kids are not telling their parents what they're doing, sometimes they're at
32:30
greater risk.
32:31
Mhmm.
32:31
So being able to say mom, dad, you know what?
32:33
Yeah.
32:34
I did this.
32:35
And not be met with, like, an angry tone, but be saying, you know, thank you for telling me
32:39
and then being able to have a dialogue about is is just something needs to be done about this
32:44
or going to your own person saying, I've seen a real shift in your mood.
32:47
Like, I'm a little worried.
32:49
Is this thing.
32:50
Have you noticed it?
32:51
Are you worried about it?
32:53
And then approaching those same channels?
32:54
Like, do you start with a a pediatrician or a family doctor?
32:58
To see what might be available.
33:00
Do you, look up online what what's available in your community?
33:06
To see what services might be available.
33:08
I know that a lot of, tons I've worked in services where it's families talking to other
33:13
families where they learn about some of the service is because they they, as in discussion,
33:18
they realize that young people have faced similar issues.
33:20
And so they might learn about something that's available because another parent has had to
33:25
utilize that service with their young person and, you know, approach their their young
33:29
person and say, you know, this is what I'm thinking.
33:32
What do you think?
33:34
And and just start that dialogue.
33:36
I think the hard part is when the parent wants it more than the young person, Sometimes you're
33:40
in a real tough mind because you cannot force certain things on somebody.
33:46
But but I think through being able to have open dialogue, hopefully, that they'll be able to be
33:51
in a position where they can have that dialogue and have their own person say, you know what?
33:55
I'm not really feeling myself.
33:57
You know, maybe we could check something out.
34:01
Let's start with that conversation.
34:03
Right.
34:03
And I think sometimes I think parents need to have their support to get comfortable with what
34:09
they're gonna approach because potentially, let's say when you're a kid, you went to you
34:13
you couldn't go to your parents because they would have freaked out, and you grew up kind of
34:19
with that in you.
34:19
And now you're like, oh my god.
34:21
I think so and so is using drugs or whatever or they're having sex or and and you're, like, you
34:27
know, escalated to yourself as a parent.
34:30
So I often say to parents, you have to say, okay.
34:33
How am I feeling?
34:33
Am I gonna freak out?
34:35
If I'm gonna freak out, I gotta figure out a a different way to not freak out get my support
34:41
before I have that conversation because all it takes is 1 a couple of those conversations not
34:46
going so well, and then your team's gonna go further away from you.
34:50
Right.
34:50
Right.
34:51
Which is tough.
34:52
Right?
34:53
If you know there's they're doing stuff that's harmful, You want you wanna make it better for
34:59
them, and you can't make it better for them at this point.
35:01
Right?
35:01
You're gently kinda going between the the space where they're a child where you could kind of
35:07
direct them more so to a, a twin when tweens are taking you know, charge a little bit
35:13
younger.
35:13
I'm sure you're seeing that to, wow, I have to learn to let go, which is sometimes tough.
35:19
I'm I'm at that stage right now with my son, and it's a tough thing.
35:23
Of course.
35:24
Of course.
35:24
You you you know based on your own life experience, you you know, based on many things
35:29
where things could lead, and it's very challenging to give them the space to take some
35:35
of those risks.
35:36
Because you don't wanna see them harmed.
35:38
Right.
35:39
I I think one of the things that, you know, parents often have to face this saying that you
35:46
are aware of something is not saying you agree with something.
35:49
And I think there's that's a a a divine parents have to be able to say.
35:54
So I knew what my parents weren't okay with.
35:59
And so if I chose to do it, I knew they were not okay.
36:03
Mhmm.
36:03
If I told them about it, my telling them never made them say, I think it's k.
36:08
They were still on board with, I don't agree with this.
36:11
But if I could tell them and them not agree, it was better than me saying, well, If I don't
36:16
tell them, they'll never know and then I can do what I please, and there'd be that disconnect
36:21
to the communication.
36:22
So I think even in that, like, just like you talked about, thinking about how not to freak
36:28
out, if you're talking to your young person about something, understanding that you're
36:32
having a dialogue where they tell you I'm doing this, say it substance use, you're having that
36:38
dialogue never means you're condoning it.
36:39
If you don't condone it, It's okay to say, I don't agree with this, but you can also say,
36:44
but I'm grateful you told me because I would rather know what you're doing than not know.
36:50
You know where I stand, but I'd still rather know.
36:53
And that's a really tough conversation to have.
36:55
That's a tough skill.
36:56
Right?
36:57
Yes.
36:57
Because you're Because
36:58
you just wanna come down and say absolutely not.
37:00
Right?
37:01
Right.
37:01
Right.
37:01
Right.
37:02
And it but what it if if we're so tough it teaches our young people to either not share or
37:08
to to tell lies sometimes.
37:10
Like, I was laughing with my my best friend of 30 years, you know, my mom was adamant that I
37:16
didn't go to night clubs.
37:17
She just had this thing in Kate night club.
37:19
But if I told her I was going to a party, she never fussed.
37:22
So I just learned what language she used.
37:24
I say, mom, so and I are going to a party, as long as I was with her and the word was party,
37:29
she was okay.
37:30
But if I said so and so and I were going to a night club, she just had this complete
37:34
different picture in her head.
37:36
So it taught me to change my language.
37:37
It didn't change my behavior.
37:39
But
37:40
But I do remember having moments of going, I'm at a night club.
37:44
If anything were to happen, like, I remember thinking in the middle of dancing on a dance
37:48
floor, let nothing bad happen because if my parents get wind, all the news, that this thing
37:53
happened at a night club.
37:56
Then it's gonna prove their point, and they're gonna be devastated that I went to a night
38:00
club.
38:00
So I remember having these moments of, just let me have a good time and let everybody be safe.
38:05
I could go home, and my parents still have to be devastated.
38:08
But eventually, I was able to say, you know, I went to a party and it was at a night club.
38:12
Well, you know how I feel about night clubs.
38:14
Yes.
38:14
I know, but guess what?
38:16
That's where the parties are at, and you know me well enough.
38:18
And, you know, we got I got to an age where my mom could say, I do.
38:22
I trust you.
38:23
I know who you are.
38:24
I know who I raised you to be.
38:26
And so I don't like that setting, but I trust you.
38:30
And trust that you can make good choices.
38:32
Right.
38:33
Even though you're in an environment that maybe she's not, you know, loving up on.
38:37
Right.
38:38
You kind of have a good time.
38:39
Now I wanna I wanna pivot just to talk about something that I think a lot of people are
38:45
afraid to talk about, and that's suicide.
38:47
Okay.
38:48
Because I think it's very, very important.
38:50
And in your world, I'm gonna say that you're probably having that conversation a lot with
38:57
admissions.
38:59
So that's part of a weekly therapy session potentially.
39:02
Have you had thoughts of suicide over the past?
39:04
Right.
39:05
You
39:05
know, have has it the thought occurred to you?
39:07
Have you done anything to to try anything?
39:11
Because of the work that I do, it's a conversation that I have very regularly.
39:16
Mhmm.
39:17
Because it is a myth that talking about it makes people think more about doing it.
39:21
Right.
39:23
And provided the person speak honest with you, something can be done if you address it versus
39:30
not addressing it and not know when they leave that room.
39:33
That that's a very real thought in their mind.
39:37
And so para for parents listening, they're gonna go, oh my goodness.
39:40
We're talking about that word.
39:42
Right?
39:42
And what what, again, what what words of wisdom would you give to a parent that potentially has
39:49
the child talking like that?
39:51
Mhmm.
39:52
Or maybe they're worried because they're so dumb.
39:54
What kind of things again could they do?
39:56
Other than what you've already shared.
39:57
Openness.
39:58
Openness, but, you know, it's a trick I've given many families because, again, I have
40:03
worked from the crisis department in the emergency where parents are bringing new young
40:08
people in who are facing those thoughts or even have done something to try And, you know, you
40:15
can't, after that experience, walk on egg shells.
40:20
You feel like you're forever.
40:22
Oh my god.
40:22
What am I gonna do?
40:23
And you want to that's when you wanna bum her up your child.
40:26
And I get it.
40:28
But I I've what I've said to families is find a way to have that dialogue without having the
40:34
dialogue very directly, if necessary.
40:37
But be able to check-in because a parent's gonna worry.
40:40
Right?
40:40
And I have to explain to a young person.
40:42
I'm like, your parents are gonna worry.
40:44
If you were facing a medical issue, gonna check if you're taking your medication.
40:49
If you face thoughts or behaviors related to suicide, they're gonna worry that that's gonna
40:54
come up again.
40:55
And so I often encourage families to to develop a code system to be able to check-in.
41:01
Whether they use numbers, colors, specific words, I always use the example of numbers to,
41:08
to do it when you you do it in a comp space when things are well, but you develop your
41:13
system.
41:13
So if it's numbers, you know from your scale is 1 to 10.
41:17
And 1 to 2 means I feel, really bad And this is when I might need to go to an emergency
41:25
department.
41:25
3 to 4 is this, 5 to 6, is this 17, is this 9 to 10, is that?
41:29
So that at any point, you can just go, like, if you see a shifter in their mood, you can say
41:33
what number.
41:34
Yep.
41:35
And instead of saying, are you feeling suicidal right now?
41:38
They've done a check-in about mood and kind of status without it being particularly intrusive
41:43
because it's not always easy to talk about it all the And it's I I do appreciate one of the
41:48
reasons sometimes it's easier to come to a stranger and talk to him about it in an
41:52
emergency department or in a therapy session.
41:54
With somebody you might build rapport with there is you get to leave it there to some
41:58
degree and go home and resume your normal life without feeling like it's hanging over your
42:04
head.
42:04
But if you're having that dialogue with your parents, it kind of feels like it's in your
42:07
face all the time, which is a challenge.
42:10
Right?
42:10
I certainly know that growing up with a medical issue myself, I had arthritis as a child.
42:15
I do not want my parents 247 to say, are you in pain?
42:18
Where it was your knee stiff today.
42:19
I didn't wanna hear about it all the time.
42:20
Just let me be Natasha.
42:22
Don't let me be Natasha with arthritis.
42:24
Right.
42:24
And so the young person doesn't wanna be sold, so who's had suicidal thoughts.
42:28
Too suicidal 247.
42:30
They just wanna be them.
42:32
But if in a worried moment or just in an off moment, like, maybe a pair can do that.
42:37
Do a quick check-in.
42:38
And if you're at work and you're young persons at home, you send a text message.
42:42
What number they give you a response And you've already kinda determined what the intervention,
42:47
if intervention is needed based on that.
42:50
But finding ways to do check ins that don't necessarily involve long, deep conversations
42:55
might help normalize that home environment.
43:02
Where you could still take that opportunity to check, but not have somebody feel like they're
43:07
under the microscope all the time.
43:09
Good.
43:09
That's a that's an amazing tip, Natasha.
43:11
I can see that because the last thing they wanna do is to get into the whole drama of
43:16
what's what what happened before and
43:18
Yeah.
43:18
Be brought back to because they probably they're wanting to probably leave that behind
43:21
also.
43:22
Yeah.
43:22
You know, and like you said, even maybe change the language a bit, you know, says to them,
43:27
yeah, I'm okay.
43:28
I'm a little bit down, but I'm okay.
43:30
And so then the parents and I would think that sometimes if that's happened with parents,
43:34
they're gonna worry all the time.
43:36
Yeah.
43:37
Right?
43:37
So Of course.
43:38
Of course.
43:38
And what they're what, you know, what somebody in the community's understanding of what we
43:44
evaluate for suicide is different than what we in the hospital setting for somewhere might
43:48
evaluate for suicide.
43:48
It's scary to think your child is having the thought, but having the thought doesn't mean
43:54
they have any desire to do it, any intention to
43:56
do it.
43:57
Right.
43:57
And so that becomes part of our evaluation.
44:00
And so sometimes I've had parents not understand, well, my peer my child said this
44:04
occurred to them.
44:05
Wiredly hospitalized.
44:07
If there's absolutely no intention, if the fox scared them, if there's no plan, we don't
44:13
necessarily need to contain.
44:15
Mhmm.
44:16
Mhmm.
44:16
I've had a random thought when I've been in a store.
44:18
Oh, I should just put that in my pocket.
44:19
And then I went, no, I don't steal.
44:20
And I go about my business.
44:22
I would hate for the police to arrest me because I had a thought.
44:25
Right.
44:25
And so understanding there's a difference between a thought and an intention and a plan
44:30
to do something is, something that we often have to educate, you know, caregivers, family
44:36
members, schools about because that is part of what becomes part of the evaluation.
44:41
Somebody experiencing depression and anxiety may have that passive thought enter their mind,
44:46
but it doesn't actually mean that they intend to do something about or have any real desire
44:51
to do something about it.
44:52
And get support.
44:53
Right?
44:53
I would think.
44:54
Yeah.
44:54
If you're worried, you know, have that support system that you can go to that doesn't involve
44:59
the child that allows you to kind of keep your mental, at a certain level state.
45:05
So you're not constantly going back to the child to kind of you know, hash that out over
45:09
and over again.
45:11
Right.
45:12
Well, Natasha, this has been very, very, very insightful, and I'm thinking that people
45:17
listening would It probably would give them a lot of information about if they're struggling
45:22
or even if they kind of think that that they're child or young adult is, struggling.
45:28
So tell people, if what what you do and where they can reach you if they're needing
45:34
additional information and, that you also speak on the issue, around adolescent, child and
45:41
adolescent mental health.
45:42
Yeah.
45:43
Well, I think the speaking has come out of just the work that I've done.
45:46
I have a real passion for educating others on just understanding and maybe debunking some
45:52
myths, but also helping know what are some of the steps that can be taken.
45:57
And so that's kind of where the speaking has come from.
46:00
I love to speak about just youth mental health in general, what resilience is how to build
46:05
that resilience to help support your young person.
46:08
Any number of those areas, how do you, you know, navigate yourself through the mental
46:13
system.
46:15
So I can be reached probably best as by email, info at natasha holiday.com is my email address
46:22
and I can give that to Roxanne.
46:26
And just, you know, this is this is part of what it's seeing me.
46:31
I still work full time in a in a clinic with young people, but I, I have done a few
46:38
community workshops to educate parents about building resilience and just looking to do more
46:42
of that stuff because I think that Sometimes we operate in silos in the treatment sector where
46:49
I might work with the young person, but if I'm not working with their family on any level, it
46:53
there's an imbalance.
46:54
Because this young person's developing a skill that's not reinforced and may not be understood
46:58
at home.
46:59
And I don't I don't want parents to feel that they don't have the capability of of being of
47:04
support to hear a young person.
47:07
So it's really important for me to look at how do we also help families get that information
47:11
that they need as well.
47:13
So that's part of what I've kind of been shifting to do as well outside of just my
47:17
regular kind of 9 to 5 and just helping empower family to feel that they have the tools to
47:23
support their young person in whatever they're facing.
47:27
So I I'll provide you my contact info, and please put it in the show notes.
47:31
And, I would look forward to hearing from you.
47:34
Anyway, even just questions about, you know, this is what what's presenting, and I'm not
47:38
sure what to do.
47:38
I'm always happy those dialogues with people.
47:41
Well, thank you so much for your time.
47:43
And for everyone listening, I think the the main thing that I'm taking away today, Justin
47:48
and listening to Tasha, is that kids are gonna go through things.
47:53
And create the space so that they can come to you, in whatever with whatever issue there is
48:00
small or big, and you know, sometimes you have to contain that space within yourself to be
48:07
able to listen to them.
48:08
And like, Natasha said, it doesn't mean you're complicit with what the behavior is.
48:12
But you're creating that space to allow them to to speak.
48:16
And the more that you're able to do that and even if you're thinking, wow, I'm freaking out
48:20
right now, Listen, try to support them, and then after that, you get your support because
48:25
what you eventually want them to do is to be able to keep coming back and whatever skills
48:30
they're needing, hopefully, if they don't have them, you can help them with with, acquiring
48:34
that skill.
48:35
So, Again, you know, I brought Sandra Derhodge.
48:38
I have a mental health and wellness specialist.
48:40
I'm a keynote speaker trainer and coach.
48:42
So if you're needing any information on me, you can be reached me at Roxanne.
48:46
Durhodge.com.
48:47
So, again, Natasha, thanks so much for your time.
48:49
Thank you.
48:50
Thanks for having me.
48:51
Okay.
48:51
Loved having you.
48:52
Okay.
48:53
Take care.
48:53
You too.
48:54
Okay.
48:54
Bye.
48:55
Bye bye.
48:56
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
49:00
Create the space for positive healthy change.
49:03
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
49:10
roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
49:14
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.