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Chuck & Buck 6-23 Hour 3: One Series with Gregg Bell, the NEW piggyback rules and how did we get here? · Chuck in the Morning

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Speaker 1: And then Greg bell I promise as quickly as I
0:02
Speaker 1: can get to him for our Seahawks one series, as
0:05
Speaker 1: we'll continue that here. Today you're breaking news, and this
0:08
Speaker 1: is this is sad. Tony castor Cone has decided. And
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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's great for Tony cast Cone and his family,
0:15
Speaker 1: so we'll be happy for him. But he's no longer
0:19
Speaker 1: going to be the voice of the Huskies. He has
0:21
Speaker 1: taken the play by play job for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,
0:26
Speaker 1: so he will be moving to the other side of
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Speaker 1: the world, basically to Tampa, Florida. I hope you enjoy
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Speaker 1: all the mullets and the outback steakhouses and everything else
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Speaker 1: that comes with the waffle houses down there in Tampa.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, sad that he'll be leaving us, and so
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Speaker 1: we'll be looking for a new voice of the Huskies.
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Speaker 2: It sounds like well, and especially for basketball because Jayham
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Speaker 2: retired too, so they're going to have a whole new
0:51
Speaker 2: basketball team.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I'm sure it's a great opportunity, and
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Speaker 1: so we wish Tony, who's been nothing but kind to
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Speaker 1: us over the years, the absolute best and to his family. Also,
1:04
Speaker 1: I want to mention this just quickly. I kind of
1:07
Speaker 1: ran some things together in that last segment. The rumors
1:10
Speaker 1: yesterday were Shane Wright for tipp it straight up, and
1:14
Speaker 1: that's not even really a rumor. It's just some speculation
1:16
Speaker 1: that was being done in Philadelphia and the La Freyne
1:20
Speaker 1: or however he pronounce his name, yeah, for right, straight up.
1:25
Speaker 1: But I kind of ran it together with that whole
1:28
Speaker 1: conversation about the number seven pick and Shane Wright for
1:32
Speaker 1: something bigger. I wasn't suggesting take right and the number
1:35
Speaker 1: seven pick and trade for Tippet or FORTI Yeah, okay.
1:39
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2:02
Speaker 1: entering the word America for a shot at twenty five
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Speaker 1: hundred dollars. All right, let's Seahawks one series. This thing
2:09
Speaker 1: joining us now is our Seahawks Insider boy, you save
2:13
Speaker 1: your best for last, don't you. Greg Bell is with
2:15
Speaker 1: us right here on Chuck and Buck in the morning.
2:17
Speaker 3: How are you, sir, I'm well, thank you for having me.
2:22
Speaker 1: We're good. Good. We had to you know, we have
2:24
Speaker 1: spread out our heavy hitters. You know, you know how
2:26
Speaker 1: it works.
2:26
Speaker 3: I'm glad.
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Speaker 1: I'm glad we get you here this week though, because
2:30
Speaker 1: and you actually get an outstanding player to break down.
2:33
Speaker 1: Can't believe that he's still on the board for you.
2:35
Speaker 1: Who are we going to talk about today?
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Speaker 3: Is this the last one? No?
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Speaker 1: We have three more? Okay, yeah, that's last week though,
2:43
Speaker 1: the last week?
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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, And we going to talk about
2:48
Speaker 3: long snapper Crystal.
2:53
Speaker 1: That is a dirty trick right there.
2:56
Speaker 4: I did slightly panic.
3:00
Speaker 3: Important some big, big special teams kicking games.
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Speaker 1: Is it gonna get a big contract extension since JSN.
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Speaker 3: Got one, Yeah, he might, he might be in line
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Speaker 3: for one. That's true. Now let's talk about the one
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Speaker 3: who is. It's of course, Devin Witherspoon, the three time cornerback,
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Speaker 3: the Pro Bowl cornerback, and all signs are he's gonna
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Speaker 3: get his giant deal at thirty one million plus to
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Speaker 3: Eclipse Trent McDuffie as the highest pig cornerback in the NFL,
3:27
Speaker 3: and that'll happen in the first days of training camp.
3:30
Speaker 3: Training camp starts July twenty fifth. He's due to report
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Speaker 3: with the veterans in July twenty fourth, and people wondering
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Speaker 3: why isn't this happened already? Look at js Senens was
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Speaker 3: done in March. Smith and Jigbis was an anomaly. Usually
3:43
Speaker 3: John Schneider gets these done about late July early August.
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Speaker 3: In the training camp. Entering a guy's final year of
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Speaker 3: his deal, a foundational player like Smith and Jigbit and
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Speaker 3: Witherspoon are. I can tell you that there is no
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Speaker 3: part of Mike McDonald and his plans for his defense
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Speaker 3: in the future, for his plans of being the Seahawks
4:01
Speaker 3: coach for as long as anyone can see that don't
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Speaker 3: include Devin Witherspoon. It's probably he's probably Devin Witherspoon, not probably,
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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that he is Mike McDonald's favorite Seahawks.
4:15
Speaker 3: They're like odd couple brothers. They're just they tease each other.
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Speaker 3: Witherspoon calls him a nerd in a playful, joyful way.
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Speaker 3: I remember the first time. We talked to McDonald in
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Speaker 3: the spring of his first season in twenty twenty four,
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Speaker 3: and he said, as Witherspoon was walking by, how do
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Speaker 3: you know so much at such a young age? And
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Speaker 3: he was mocking him because Witherspoon said, thinks he knows everything,
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Speaker 3: and he was only in the second season at the time.
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Speaker 3: They playfully banter back and forth. But McDonald loves Witherspoon's vibe.
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Speaker 3: He loves his bravado, his swagger, but most of all,
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Speaker 3: he loves how he plays both against the run and
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Speaker 3: against the past. I got a bunch of numbers I'm
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Speaker 3: gonna throw at you here in a few minutes that
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Speaker 3: define well beyond what interceptions and sacks that people are
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Speaker 3: rating and saying, well, whetherfore why are you paying them
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Speaker 3: as much money? He only had one interception last year.
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Speaker 1: Well, I want to ask this first, and I'm not worried.
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Speaker 1: I don't think any Seahawk fans should be worried about it.
5:18
Speaker 1: I think it's just how will you conduct business? But
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Speaker 1: why go so early on JSN and then wait on
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Speaker 1: Devin Witherspoon. Why not do them just back to back
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Speaker 1: and get.
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Speaker 3: It done well? Because the devil's in the details, and
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Speaker 3: every day deal is different. And when you start talking
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Speaker 3: about one hundred and fifty two hundred million dollar contracts,
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Speaker 3: which we're talking about with these two guys, the devil
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Speaker 3: is in the details of the guaranteed money and when
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Speaker 3: does that guaranteed money go to the player, how much
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Speaker 3: is it signing, how much is it against injury, how
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Speaker 3: much is it in the first twelve months? And there
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Speaker 3: are comps for that, and they every agent for every player,
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Speaker 3: veteran player in the leaue comp other players at that position.
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Speaker 3: And I am certain beyond doubt that the agents for
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Speaker 3: Devin witherspoon are looking good. Trent McDuffie's contract that the
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Speaker 3: Rams gave him after they traded with the Chiefs to
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Speaker 3: get the all pro cornerback, and that's the contract that
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Speaker 3: they are targeting, including the guaranteed money. Now Smith and
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Speaker 3: Jig but just agreed to all of the parameters and
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Speaker 3: the one hundred and twenty plus million of the one
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Speaker 3: to sixty eight guaranteed, all of it relatively sooner. Just
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Speaker 3: there was not a lot of negotiation. He wanted to
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Speaker 3: be here. This is where they draft him in the
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Speaker 3: first round. Like Witherspoon few years ago, and jess I
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Speaker 3: just said, okay, we'll do it this one. Obviously, they're
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Speaker 3: going through a little more of the eaches on the
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Speaker 3: guaranteed money. That's gold in the NFL, and we talk
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Speaker 3: about this all the time because you're one play away
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Speaker 3: from your career potentially altering or ending. So the guaranteed
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Speaker 3: money when you start talking about these bigger contracts, is
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Speaker 3: what dictates. It's everything to the player, and how much
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Speaker 3: the percentage of the total deal that's guaranteed is where
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Speaker 3: you start. And then you start going, Okay, how much
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Speaker 3: is in a signing bonus, how much is it against
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Speaker 3: injury the fifth day of the league year next year?
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Speaker 3: Those are okay, we got that done. Now let's move
7:16
Speaker 3: to this. Now, let's move to this. So it's just
7:19
Speaker 3: not two numbers written on napkin and then they swap
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Speaker 3: them and decide which number they take. It's much much
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Speaker 3: more nuanced than that, and that's why it's taken a while.
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Speaker 1: Greg Bell is with us our Seahawks insider from the
7:29
Speaker 1: News Tribune of course, so you can follow him at
7:31
Speaker 1: GBL Seattle on X and then of course you can
7:35
Speaker 1: lay hear them every day at ten o'clock right here
7:37
Speaker 1: at Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM, hoping never
7:41
Speaker 1: steals my Seahawks one series idea for his own show,
7:44
Speaker 1: because we really like it, We really do like it.
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Speaker 3: Wouldn't do that.
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Speaker 1: Today we're breaking down Devin Witherspoon with him. So, all right,
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Speaker 1: I will ask you the obvious question, then, why is
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Speaker 1: it that Devin Witherspoon is so much more than just
8:00
Speaker 1: an interception total?
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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's the people. They judge guys by numbers
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Speaker 3: that are easy to quantify and easy to understand. Cornerbacks,
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Speaker 3: how many interceptions do you have? Well, consider this last year,
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Speaker 3: Witherspoon played in just twelve games. The injury it costs
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Speaker 3: him a month at the hamstring in September into October
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Speaker 3: that they shut him down after week two, so he
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Speaker 3: played only twelve games. Right, Well, in those twelve games,
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Speaker 3: he had only fifty nine pass targets. That's fewer course
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Speaker 3: than five a game. What's that mean? Well, the NFL
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Speaker 3: average in a game is thirty two and a half
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Speaker 3: passes per team per game on average. And when the
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Speaker 3: Seahawks case, because they were up by often a score
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Speaker 3: or two or three, it was a lot more than
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Speaker 3: thirty two passes a game they were facing. That means
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Speaker 3: at least fewer than five pass the game for teams
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Speaker 3: that were throwing thirty two plus times a game. On
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Speaker 3: the Seahawks, one of the time he was getting targeted
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Speaker 3: on average, and it was usually at less than that.
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Speaker 3: That means that five to sixth of the time I'm
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Speaker 3: starting to sound like Hugh Millin here with these numbers,
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Speaker 3: but five to sixths of the time Devin Witherspoon was
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Speaker 3: shutting down his part of the field he was covering.
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Speaker 3: Now on early downs that was usually outside at left cornerback.
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Speaker 3: That means five to sixth at the time. When he
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Speaker 3: was outside at left corner, the Seahawks didn't have to
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Speaker 3: worry about the left side of the field from the
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Speaker 3: about the hash marks out or the numbers out. That's
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Speaker 3: a huge advantage for Mike McDonald. Then when you put
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Speaker 3: him inside, which they of course they do quite a
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Speaker 3: bit as a nickel and dime when they bring an
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Speaker 3: extra defensive backs, he was taken away the middle of
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Speaker 3: the field or the slot receiver, which in the NFL,
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Speaker 3: slot receivers are the ones quarterbacks usually go to often
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Speaker 3: go to on third downs or in red zones. I
9:50
Speaker 3: think Coop and Nakua. Think Cooper Cup at his prime
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Speaker 3: with the Rams.
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Speaker 5: And he's shutting those guys down five to six at
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Speaker 5: the time. So if you have a piece that tea
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Speaker 5: don't even want to add a reputation and what they
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Speaker 5: see on film go at. It's Richard Sherman esque that
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Speaker 5: teams don't want to throw at Devin Witherspoon.
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Speaker 3: That is a huge advantage for how Mike McDonald raised
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Speaker 3: the rest of his defense. It allows him to blitz
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Speaker 3: nick even worry as much as he did last year.
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Speaker 3: It allows him to mix and match three corners in
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Speaker 3: two spots and move Witherspoon around like he did with
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Speaker 3: Josh jovinriqueal on last year. It allows him perhaps to
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Speaker 3: blitz up front more because they have one third of
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Speaker 3: the field often deep left if he's outside with Witherspoon,
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Speaker 3: take it away. But when you only have to defend
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Speaker 3: two thirds of the field schematically, in how you do
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Speaker 3: the rest of defense, you had an advantage over the offense.
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Speaker 3: And that to me is a large reason why the
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Speaker 3: Seahawks led the league in points allowed last year because
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Speaker 3: of Devin Witherspoon. Okay, let's talk about his tackley. He's
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Speaker 3: only one hundred and eighty five. I don't think he's
10:55
Speaker 3: hundred eighty five. I think he's MOMRK won seventy five,
10:58
Speaker 3: but they, let's know, won eighty five. He had only
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Speaker 3: three missed tackles the entire season last year. Four percent
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Speaker 3: rate on his attempted tackles that he missed on. This
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Speaker 3: is from a Pro Football Reference. A cornerback who weighs
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Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy five pounds, maybe missing only three
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Speaker 3: tackles is a huge asset for you. Especially he's not
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Speaker 3: just sitting out on the left sideline next to the
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Speaker 3: yard marker. He's in the middle of the defense. The
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Speaker 3: very first play that Devin Witherspoon had in the NFL
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Speaker 3: his rookie year in Detroit, I'll never forget it. First
11:31
Speaker 3: round pick, fifth overall pick. He had been beset by
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Speaker 3: a nagging injury later in training camp, so we were
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Speaker 3: all trying to see how he was going to respond
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Speaker 3: to that. He missed the first game. The second game
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Speaker 3: was at Detroit, and I had my modoculars on him
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Speaker 3: for the first play of his NFL career. It was
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Speaker 3: a dive play up the middle by the Lions, and
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Speaker 3: here comes from left cornerback, the one hundred and seventy
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Speaker 3: five pound rookie in on a tackle over right guard.
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Speaker 3: And I always remember that and I talked to him man.
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Speaker 3: I talked to McDonald after the game about it, and
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Speaker 3: McDonald said, that's him. Part of the reason we drafted
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Speaker 3: him is that he wants to tackle everybody on every play,
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Speaker 3: even when he's outside a corner, and he's maintained that mentality.
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Speaker 3: That is another reason why McDonald plays him inside so
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Speaker 3: much last season when he wasn't the set by the
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Speaker 3: hamstring injury and it wasn't to blowout at thirty nine
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Speaker 3: to seven in Atlanta in November. Beside those two games,
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Speaker 3: he played ninety three percent or more of the snaps
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Speaker 3: in all the games, and that's when they were rotating
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Speaker 3: three cornerbacks with him. Even when they rotated, they just
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Speaker 3: moved to Witherspoon inside. So what I'm trying to say
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Speaker 3: is everything McDonald does in the secondary with Emon worry,
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Speaker 3: with multiplicity with five and six defensive backs with Ernest
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Speaker 3: Jones off and the only linebacker in the field is
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Speaker 3: because of Devin Witherspoon, And that's how important he is
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Speaker 3: that numbers like interceptions, they can't measure that. I would
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Speaker 3: just say that the relative lack of interceptions from his
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Speaker 3: rookie year to now is because teams just don't throw
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Speaker 3: out him.
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Speaker 1: Our Seahawks inside of Greg Bell and our Seahawks one
13:07
Speaker 1: series taking a crack at Devin Witherspoon here today, some
13:11
Speaker 1: impactful stuff right there. All right, we do have to
13:14
Speaker 1: discuss potential weaknesses. I really don't see any in his game.
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Speaker 1: And yet when he was drafted, you don't you mentioned
13:22
Speaker 1: the size, and then you see the way he plays.
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Speaker 1: I mean, he just throws himself around the field. And
13:29
Speaker 1: if he really is only one seventy five and he's
13:31
Speaker 1: had three years of wear and tear, I mean he's
13:33
Speaker 1: played forty three games in his three years, but he
13:35
Speaker 1: also missed five games a year ago. And you're talking
13:38
Speaker 1: about making him maybe the highest paid cornerback in the
13:41
Speaker 1: National Football League. What worry? What concern do the Seahawks
13:45
Speaker 1: have over his potential durability going forward?
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Speaker 3: Well, I think this showed up last year with how
13:52
Speaker 3: McDonald used him in the pass rush. His first couple
13:55
Speaker 3: of years, he was blitzing multiple times a game. But
13:59
Speaker 3: last year he barely blitzed at all. He only had
14:02
Speaker 3: half a SAG and he blitzed only twelve times in
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Speaker 3: twelve games the first that's less than half of his
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Speaker 3: fewer than half of his first two years. He had
14:12
Speaker 3: twenty six blitzes as a rookie, twenty seven blitzes his
14:15
Speaker 3: second year, the first year under Mike McDonald, the second
14:19
Speaker 3: year under McDonald. Last season, he only blitzed twelve times
14:22
Speaker 3: in twelve game, once a game. So I think they
14:26
Speaker 3: were preserving him, and they had other weapons, namely Nick
14:30
Speaker 3: even Worry to take up most of those blitzes that
14:33
Speaker 3: Witherspoon wasn't doing anymore. The fact that even Worey blitzed
14:36
Speaker 3: so much is why Witherspoon didn't. But in the most
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Speaker 3: important games last year, in the playoffs, McDonald blitzed Witherspoon
14:44
Speaker 3: six times in three games, twice a game. He twice
14:48
Speaker 3: as often blitzed him in the playoffs that he did
14:50
Speaker 3: in the regular season. And of course we saw what
14:52
Speaker 3: he did in the super Bowl. The Patriots couldn't block
14:54
Speaker 3: him the game clinching play he blitzed in and forced
14:58
Speaker 3: to fumble the the Wolst picked up and ran into
15:01
Speaker 3: for a touchdown. He was all over the play. They
15:04
Speaker 3: I had him as the defensive of the MVP of
15:07
Speaker 3: the game, but I was only one of about fifty votes,
15:11
Speaker 3: but I voted for him in the press box as
15:13
Speaker 3: the MVP. So suffice to say that they were sandbagging
15:18
Speaker 3: and governing him. McDonald was for most of the season,
15:21
Speaker 3: and I think it was to preserve him. If you're
15:23
Speaker 3: going to be on the field ninety five percent of
15:25
Speaker 3: the time, you got to rest him or preserve him somewhere,
15:28
Speaker 3: and I think it was in the blitzing. So I
15:30
Speaker 3: think he's gonna blitzmore this year. I think he's gonna
15:32
Speaker 3: blitz more because now Eman Worry has the league's attention
15:36
Speaker 3: as a blitzer. And I think you're going to see
15:38
Speaker 3: a lot of yin and yang between Witherspoon and Emon Worry,
15:41
Speaker 3: between who's blitzing and who's not, to keep offensive, guessing
15:44
Speaker 3: on who's coming and who isn't. But you're right when
15:48
Speaker 3: the play, how he plays, how physical he is for
15:52
Speaker 3: his size, does raise the durability concern over time. He's
15:57
Speaker 3: still only twenty five years old, which is part of
15:59
Speaker 3: the reason is going to get this year contract. But
16:01
Speaker 3: I could see him. I could see McDonald's saying, you
16:04
Speaker 3: know what, if they run off tackle in the first
16:06
Speaker 3: player of the game, off guard, let's not stick our
16:08
Speaker 3: head in there and try to make that tackle. And
16:10
Speaker 3: as he gets older, with a bigger, richer contract, perhaps
16:13
Speaker 3: he'll be willing to do that.
16:14
Speaker 1: Last minute here we got to talk about his leadership.
16:17
Speaker 1: Did they realize when they drafted him that he had
16:21
Speaker 1: this in him, that he was going to become one
16:24
Speaker 1: of the leaders of the team.
16:26
Speaker 3: They say, Aaron Highine and the scouts they say that,
16:29
Speaker 3: but there's no way, no way they thought they were
16:32
Speaker 3: getting what they've gotten from him. Yeah, he is the
16:36
Speaker 3: most Richard Sherman player that's not named Richard Sherman I've
16:39
Speaker 3: ever covered. And I say that with the utmost compliment
16:43
Speaker 3: of they It's exactly what McDonald wants. He is constantly
16:48
Speaker 3: chirping and it becomes a leadership thing. The players gravitate,
16:52
Speaker 3: the defense gravitates around him. And for a little one
16:56
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty pound cornerback in the back of this
16:59
Speaker 3: number one nanc defense to be that leader is Richard
17:02
Speaker 3: Sherman esque. He constantly chirps at the offense and practices
17:06
Speaker 3: and the guys love it. Sam Donald loves it, Smith
17:09
Speaker 3: and Jig but goes back at him. It just raises
17:12
Speaker 3: the level of the entire practice every day. And you
17:14
Speaker 3: do that every day from April through January, you're a leader.
17:19
Speaker 3: He becomes a voice of the team, and he definitely
17:22
Speaker 3: is a voice of the team. McDonald loves him for it.
17:25
Speaker 3: He encourages it. It's an intangible that is yet another part
17:29
Speaker 3: of the fabric of this team and why they won
17:30
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl last year. And yeah, Devin Witherspoon is
17:33
Speaker 3: a gigantic piece. That's just another part that you can't
17:36
Speaker 3: quantify with statistics like interceptions to tell why they're going
17:39
Speaker 3: to pay him, like they're going to.
17:41
Speaker 1: Good mentor for Bud Clark, big spoon, little spoon.
17:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're similar. Bud Clark is you can tell he's
17:47
Speaker 3: trying to be quiet and defer a little bit as
17:49
Speaker 3: a young rookie. But they've got similar traits, including the
17:52
Speaker 3: bravado that they saw in Clark that they thought was
17:55
Speaker 3: something with a.
17:56
Speaker 1: Spoon like great stuff. All right, loved it, thank you
17:59
Speaker 1: very much, sir. We appreciate it that you'll be in
18:01
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock today. I will hour all right, Thank
18:05
Speaker 1: you very much. Greg Bell our Seahawks Insider, part of
18:08
Speaker 1: our Seahawks one series recap one Insider in Town, breaking
18:11
Speaker 1: down one key Seahawk player for one entire interview. I'm
18:14
Speaker 1: glad we got Devin Witherspoon in, and yeah, we've only
18:16
Speaker 1: got three more installments of this. We still have not
18:20
Speaker 1: had anyone break down nick em and worry, what is
18:23
Speaker 1: wrong with you people? It's the guy I want to
18:25
Speaker 1: hear broken down, don't you understand? But at least we
18:28
Speaker 1: got Devin Witherspoon in today. That we needed to get
18:31
Speaker 1: Devin Witherspoon, and I knew Greg was going to do
18:33
Speaker 1: him for weeks. So glad to talk about Spoon here today.
18:37
Speaker 1: And I think that's Greg's way of saying that Illinois
18:39
Speaker 1: people are just the best.
18:41
Speaker 4: I think that's exactly what he's saying.
18:43
Speaker 1: That's the you know that's from an Ohio guy.
18:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just conceding.
18:47
Speaker 1: And he's just saying, you Illinois people, you're just wonderful
18:51
Speaker 1: in so many ways. Coming up next, if we're gonna
18:54
Speaker 1: go with this piggyback thing going forward, we need new
18:57
Speaker 1: rules and they have to be implemented immediately. I go
19:01
Speaker 1: over the new piggyback rules next on Sports Radio ninety
19:04
Speaker 1: three point three KJR FM. Well, obviously, in the last month,
19:29
Speaker 1: the word piggyback, it's been overused. It really has caused
19:36
Speaker 1: a lot of piggyback angst. There's no question about that.
19:41
Speaker 1: We've had a piggy backlog really of emotions that it
19:47
Speaker 1: has put us through, and frankly, I feel the piggy
19:52
Speaker 1: backdraft right now from all of this. It's just blasting
19:56
Speaker 1: me in the face. And I have been a piggyback backer.
20:00
Speaker 1: I'm saying it was an idea that I loved at
20:04
Speaker 1: the beginning, but I found interesting and I have said
20:07
Speaker 1: throughout the entire process that I think it's been more
20:10
Speaker 1: good than bad, and I think I do see the
20:14
Speaker 1: potential for it, especially since Dan seems to be struggling
20:18
Speaker 1: so mightily with his relief pitching decisions and running out
20:23
Speaker 1: of relief pitchers, that having one out of five days
20:28
Speaker 1: where he doesn't have to worry about the bullpen could
20:30
Speaker 1: be quite beneficial in that area. So there are there's
20:34
Speaker 1: more that I've liked about it than disliked, But of
20:37
Speaker 1: course Friday, that was that was a piggyback fire. Yeah, yeah,
20:43
Speaker 1: we took a piggyback slide.
20:46
Speaker 4: Yeah we did.
20:46
Speaker 1: Yeah it was.
20:47
Speaker 4: It made my piggyback hurt.
20:51
Speaker 1: And and and that's really the worst about it. It's
20:55
Speaker 1: not having that option to say, geez, our starting pitcher
21:00
Speaker 1: has a lot left in the tank and he is
21:02
Speaker 1: dominating again, and yet we've already committed to something. And
21:06
Speaker 1: I agree with those people that say that's not winning baseball.
21:09
Speaker 1: I heard Bill Krueger say it with Softy yesterday. That's
21:12
Speaker 1: not winning baseball is you know, you go with the
21:17
Speaker 1: guy who's better for the job in the moment, for
21:20
Speaker 1: the day, whatever the case may be. And this piggyback
21:24
Speaker 1: sort of flies in the face of that because it
21:27
Speaker 1: forces you to commit before the game started. So, yes,
21:31
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of piggyback fire on this, a
21:34
Speaker 1: lot of piggyback talk from a lot of you people
21:36
Speaker 1: out there, a lot of piggyback lash. And so before
21:41
Speaker 1: you piggyback hand me, I thought that maybe we could
21:45
Speaker 1: set some new rules. And I know it's not gonna satisfy.
21:48
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people, there's a faction
21:50
Speaker 1: of the of the listening audience out there and of
21:53
Speaker 1: the Mariner fan base is like, I don't ever want
21:55
Speaker 1: to see it again. I want to hear the name again,
21:57
Speaker 1: get rid of it, bury it with a shovel, and
21:59
Speaker 1: then to shovel. I realize there's a faction and I'm
22:02
Speaker 1: not going to be able to convince you otherwise. But
22:05
Speaker 1: for those of you that might see some merits with it,
22:08
Speaker 1: and yet you want to set some rules, let's set
22:11
Speaker 1: some rules.
22:11
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
22:12
Speaker 1: These are the new piggyback rules, and I know Dan's
22:17
Speaker 1: listening and will enforce them. Sure. Number one rule, Bryce
22:23
Speaker 1: Miller is never to be involved in a piggyback scenario
22:28
Speaker 1: ever again.
22:29
Speaker 4: I like that rule.
22:30
Speaker 1: Yes, check, he has proven himself. He does not need
22:34
Speaker 1: the aid. He should not be taken out of these games.
22:38
Speaker 1: You've done four of these things and he's had to
22:40
Speaker 1: do it all four times, even though he might be
22:42
Speaker 1: our best pitcher. So, no matter what happens through this
22:46
Speaker 1: next couple of spins, through the rotation where you are
22:49
Speaker 1: determined and dedicated to use it twice more, you've already
22:53
Speaker 1: run Bryce Miller through the piggyback ringer four times. He
22:57
Speaker 1: has graduated from it, don't ever use him in the
23:00
Speaker 1: piggyback again.
23:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's inexcusable if you use him again.
23:04
Speaker 1: And I'm going to add Logan to that, the way
23:06
Speaker 1: he's pitching one point six in his last six starts.
23:11
Speaker 1: And I'm going to add Brian Wu to that as well. Okay,
23:14
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make him exempt from it as well. I
23:16
Speaker 1: mean sounds like they're both going to have to do it.
23:18
Speaker 1: But then again, then, I mean another piggyback rule is,
23:22
Speaker 1: even if you committed to something at one point, can't
23:26
Speaker 1: you change with the times. I don't want to see
23:28
Speaker 1: Logan do a piggyback the next time the way he's going.
23:30
Speaker 4: Not with colback too, he's even been better.
23:33
Speaker 1: I mean he's going seven eight innings like he doesn't
23:36
Speaker 1: He certainly doesn't need the help. So I think the
23:38
Speaker 1: piggy if you're going to set piggyback rules, you have
23:40
Speaker 1: to have some adjustments. You have to be able to
23:43
Speaker 1: adjust on the fly if you're going to do this.
23:47
Speaker 1: So yes, we'll add we'll add that as a second rule.
23:51
Speaker 1: Third rule, how about a twenty four hour window for this?
23:55
Speaker 1: If you're going to piggyback and I do think that
23:58
Speaker 1: they're going to get through this and decide on five starters.
24:01
Speaker 1: That's what I think ultimately is going to happen. But
24:04
Speaker 1: if you are going to piggyback going forward, I mean,
24:07
Speaker 1: is it out of the question to say, hey, Divish
24:12
Speaker 1: came up with these there's the carrier and the writer.
24:14
Speaker 4: Right.
24:15
Speaker 1: If Bryce is going to be the carrier that you
24:19
Speaker 1: know you're going to get at least five from him,
24:21
Speaker 1: that's at least that's the plan. Can the rider not
24:24
Speaker 1: be flexible? Can the writer not be available? If Bryce
24:28
Speaker 1: is going good that you could use them potentially because
24:31
Speaker 1: the next day, who knows, right, maybe Emerson only goes
24:35
Speaker 1: four innings naturally, and now you've got Castillo good to go.
24:39
Speaker 1: Trying to like forecast how these games are going to
24:42
Speaker 1: go and not being willing to adjust or able apparently
24:46
Speaker 1: to adjust to the flow of the game. That seems irresponsible.
24:52
Speaker 1: And so why not say you're the writer, You're you're
24:56
Speaker 1: going to be the piggyback guy, but you're going to
24:59
Speaker 1: be in a forty eight hour window like two games,
25:03
Speaker 1: two games that we will we're going to use you
25:05
Speaker 1: in one of the two, but it might not be
25:07
Speaker 1: the first one. I mean, I get people have routines,
25:11
Speaker 1: but starting pitchers have to deal with rain outs where
25:14
Speaker 1: they don't pitch that day and they didn't die the
25:17
Speaker 1: next day because they didn't get there. They didn't pitch
25:20
Speaker 1: on routine, they didn't pitch on rhythm. They can There's
25:24
Speaker 1: no reason why Luis Castillo, if he's gonna throw four innings,
25:29
Speaker 1: couldn't be told over a forty eight hour period. It
25:32
Speaker 1: might not be the first game, could be the second game,
25:34
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get your your work in in the
25:36
Speaker 1: next two days. Is there something wrong with that?
25:38
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think so, And I don't know.
25:41
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think that the person that's coming
25:43
Speaker 2: on in relief is having a full you know, warm
25:46
Speaker 2: up and things before the game like they would if
25:48
Speaker 2: they were starting.
25:49
Speaker 4: No, no, yeah, So I don't know why that would.
25:52
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why it would matter if
25:53
Speaker 2: you say, okay, yeah, I'm on call kind of for
25:56
Speaker 2: those games, or or even that my innings are put
26:00
Speaker 2: and I'm not gonna go four full innings potentially if
26:03
Speaker 2: the starter, because I mean, that's what.
26:04
Speaker 4: You want right as your starter, the carrier to dominate.
26:09
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but The theory behind the piggyback is no
26:12
Speaker 1: matter how he's dominating, it's got to be five and four,
26:15
Speaker 1: so both guys can be stretched out. But why can't
26:19
Speaker 1: you just because you're going to take out Bryce Miller
26:21
Speaker 1: after five games when he's got plenty left in the tank,
26:24
Speaker 1: and the next day you don't know. This is what
26:26
Speaker 1: they do with their bullpen. Well, we can't use spire.
26:29
Speaker 1: We're down one. We might need him tomorrow and we're
26:32
Speaker 1: up one, or tomorrow you might be up seven or
26:36
Speaker 1: down eleven, and then you don't need him at all,
26:38
Speaker 1: and then you wasted an opportunity to use spire. There's
26:41
Speaker 1: too much forecasting being done, too much. We're gonna do
26:45
Speaker 1: this before the game start. There's got to be some
26:48
Speaker 1: sort of feel for how the game is going. And
26:50
Speaker 1: I think if you had the writer, and maybe that's
26:55
Speaker 1: all Castillo is. Maybe he's just a writer, and maybe
26:58
Speaker 1: you pick a two games stretch where he gets to ride,
27:02
Speaker 1: but you're not going to determine that before the game start.
27:05
Speaker 1: Another rule. How about, and this is really hard for
27:09
Speaker 1: this organization for some reason, how about we establish a
27:13
Speaker 1: middle ground between not communicating with our players at all
27:18
Speaker 1: and letting them decide what's best for the team. I
27:25
Speaker 1: don't want to hear that we voted on it and
27:27
Speaker 1: the players wanted to do it this way. I want
27:31
Speaker 1: the organization. I want the front office and the managers
27:35
Speaker 1: and the coaching staff to say this is what we're
27:38
Speaker 1: going to do because players aren't responsible. Players will of
27:42
Speaker 1: course machismo, they'll claim they can do it all. I
27:46
Speaker 1: don't want players. I don't want Lebron making personnel decisions
27:49
Speaker 1: for the basketball team. I don't want Yannis making personnel decisions.
27:52
Speaker 1: And I don't want the pitchers deciding how they're going
27:55
Speaker 1: to be used. That's what we have a front office for,
27:59
Speaker 1: and a coaching staff and a manager for. They make
28:02
Speaker 1: the decisions. But here's an idea. You've made the decision,
28:05
Speaker 1: you've gotten their input. You then make the decision. You
28:08
Speaker 1: tell them how you're going to do it. But you
28:11
Speaker 1: just tell them how you're going to do it. And
28:13
Speaker 1: why do we do we need to have a vote
28:16
Speaker 1: on this? Should the players be involved in the vote
28:18
Speaker 1: at all? Hell? No, get their input, let them know
28:24
Speaker 1: exactly why we're doing something different, and then make the
28:29
Speaker 1: decision and tell them directly how we're going to do
28:31
Speaker 1: this and then they'll have to just live with it.
28:34
Speaker 1: I don't like letting the players who's in who's not in? Yay, nay, No,
28:43
Speaker 1: they're the players. You tell them what to do.
28:45
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and it is a job, right.
28:46
Speaker 2: The mariners are running the business, so if they have
28:49
Speaker 2: a plan that that's how they're going to run it. Sorry,
28:52
Speaker 2: you got to ship up, shape up or ship out.
28:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to ship up. No, you don't
28:58
Speaker 1: want to ship that monkey and a wrench into this thing,
29:01
Speaker 1: a monkey wrenching of this thing. Yeah. And then another rule,
29:06
Speaker 1: if you're going to piggyback, there is no reason to
29:09
Speaker 1: overprotect your relief. Pitcher usage says has been a real
29:13
Speaker 1: big problem this year with this team. Okay, so if
29:17
Speaker 1: you're going to spend a day giving the bullpen arrest,
29:19
Speaker 1: that means the other four days, when we need them,
29:22
Speaker 1: we use them.
29:23
Speaker 3: Yep.
29:24
Speaker 4: That's what they're there for.
29:24
Speaker 1: And you're not gonna need them all four days. But
29:27
Speaker 1: if you need them three out of the four days,
29:29
Speaker 1: then you use them three out of the four days.
29:31
Speaker 1: If they have to go back to back, then you
29:32
Speaker 1: use them back to back. There are too many rules.
29:35
Speaker 1: They have too many rules before the game even gets started.
29:38
Speaker 1: That governs how we play a baseball game, and that's
29:41
Speaker 1: on Dan, and I know that he gets influenced from
29:45
Speaker 1: the front office and that together they make the decision.
29:48
Speaker 1: But Dan's got to have more of a backbone if
29:51
Speaker 1: he doesn't like it. I don't think that's the case.
29:53
Speaker 1: I think he likes it, and I think that he
29:55
Speaker 1: is managing two strict starting pitchers must go eighty five
30:00
Speaker 1: to ninety five pitches and that's it. There's just no
30:03
Speaker 1: everything's been determined before the game starts.
30:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
30:07
Speaker 1: No, we've got to have some flexibility with this. So
30:10
Speaker 1: if we are going to do the piggyback any deeper
30:14
Speaker 1: into the future, then I do not want to hear
30:17
Speaker 1: when we're down one in the sixth. I don't want
30:20
Speaker 1: to see Alex Hoppi come in the game. It's Spire,
30:22
Speaker 1: it's Freer, it's Bizardo, it's Munjos, one of the four, okay,
30:27
Speaker 1: And so no excuse to overprotect because right now we're
30:31
Speaker 1: going two weeks without using Gabe Spire but for an
30:34
Speaker 1: inning and a third ridiculous, ridiculous, same thing with Ferrer
30:38
Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks.
30:40
Speaker 3: Uh.
30:41
Speaker 1: And then finally one run games again should elicit flexibility
30:45
Speaker 1: with the plan. I mean, if Luis is going great
30:49
Speaker 1: and you want to use them then in the ninth
30:51
Speaker 1: to finish it out, fine, But if he's stumbling at
30:54
Speaker 1: all and you've got a proven closer and Andre's Moon,
30:58
Speaker 1: go to Munjos again. Stop predetermining how the game's going
31:03
Speaker 1: to go. Be able to adapt and adjust. And I
31:07
Speaker 1: think that's the biggest problem with this entire season. Frankly,
31:11
Speaker 1: this is I think the biggest reason why they're only
31:14
Speaker 1: a game over five hundred. All right, Coming up next,
31:17
Speaker 1: we'll talk about Dusty May and all of the levels
31:20
Speaker 1: of this strange story. Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.
31:28
Speaker 1: You can botch your mouth, lady.
31:30
Speaker 5: She does have a potty.
31:32
Speaker 1: The twenty twenty sixth Summer Concert Series is coming to
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Speaker 1: Talala Prazork Casino. You can bring the heat. Bring the heat.
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Speaker 1: Don't say it like that, I'll bring it. Star studded
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Speaker 1: lineup's going to feature The Black Crows on Sunday, August thirtieth,
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Speaker 1: Heat Bringers, Anthony Hamilton Thursday September tenth, George Thoroughgood and
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Speaker 1: the Destroyers Battist show on Earth come in August sixth. Yes,
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Speaker 1: the concert series Summer Concert Series is here. For all
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Speaker 1: the details, go to Leylapcasino dot com. All right, we
32:08
Speaker 1: are going to have Spencer Hawes on at nine o'clock.
32:11
Speaker 1: We haven't had big basketball news like this trade wise
32:14
Speaker 1: in a little while, and so we told Spencer we
32:18
Speaker 1: wouldn't bug him for a while, but we kind of
32:20
Speaker 1: need to bug him. So he's gonna join us at
32:22
Speaker 1: nine o'clock. Talk about Yannis, talk about the draft tonight,
32:24
Speaker 1: talk about Hans Steinbach, who we haven't even mentioned today.
32:28
Speaker 1: On the day of the NBA Draft, he's going to
32:31
Speaker 1: be taken, possibly a lottery pick out of you, dub.
32:34
Speaker 1: I guess Tony castro Cone decided, if Steinbach's not here,
32:37
Speaker 1: I leave.
32:38
Speaker 4: I guess that's what happened. Yep, can't do it anymore.
32:41
Speaker 1: His wife was like, really, you were that tied up
32:44
Speaker 1: in that decision, yep, leaving the leaving the fold with
32:47
Speaker 1: the family.
32:48
Speaker 4: She's like, I thought, maybe you just wanted palm trees
32:50
Speaker 4: and warm breezes.
32:53
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about another person that's leaving college athletics,
32:57
Speaker 1: and that is a Dusty May the National championship head
33:01
Speaker 1: coach of the Michigan Wolverines. Even though his name sounds
33:05
Speaker 1: like he's one of the characters and three Amigos, I
33:09
Speaker 1: actually think he might that might be one of the names,
33:14
Speaker 1: is it.
33:14
Speaker 4: I don't know.
33:15
Speaker 1: I guess Chevy Chase's character, I believe, But yeah, Dusty
33:19
Speaker 1: May former three Amigo is leaving Michigan and he is
33:23
Speaker 1: going to become the head coach of the Dallas Mavericks.
33:26
Speaker 1: And this really does have a lot of layers to
33:28
Speaker 1: it because look, I'm not in the crowd of is
33:34
Speaker 1: it Dusty, Dusty Bottoms, Dusty Bottoms Okay, And then there's.
33:37
Speaker 4: Lucky Day that's yeah, you can see.
33:44
Speaker 1: Why I would make it. But I'm not one of
33:48
Speaker 1: those people that. Look, I know there are a lot
33:50
Speaker 1: of problems with college athletics right now, and it's it's scary.
33:54
Speaker 1: I don't know what the future is going to end
33:55
Speaker 1: up holding. I do know it's got to be handled
33:57
Speaker 1: the right way, and I know that it had to
33:59
Speaker 1: move in this and then we had to put our
34:01
Speaker 1: arms around it once we figured out what kind of
34:05
Speaker 1: issues that we were going to confront. So I'm I'm
34:09
Speaker 1: less concerned today about the future of college athletics than
34:12
Speaker 1: I was before they started paying players, because if they
34:16
Speaker 1: never did pay players, I really thought it was it
34:18
Speaker 1: would ruin it. I think they have a chance of
34:21
Speaker 1: saving it, but it's gonna be tricky, it's going to
34:22
Speaker 1: be difficult. And now you've got to start putting some
34:25
Speaker 1: rules in place with college athletics. So I knew we
34:29
Speaker 1: were going to go through this period of time where
34:31
Speaker 1: it was going to get really uncomfortable for fans, it's
34:33
Speaker 1: going to get really uncomfortable for coaches. It was going
34:36
Speaker 1: to be introduced a lot of headaches that coaches hadn't
34:39
Speaker 1: dealt with before, and they dealt with a lot of
34:40
Speaker 1: headaches beforehand. And yet we're seeing popularity of the sports
34:47
Speaker 1: actually increased despite all of the grumbling. The quality of
34:51
Speaker 1: the product certainly hasn't decreased. It may have increased since
34:55
Speaker 1: we started all of this, and despite all of the grumbling,
34:59
Speaker 1: and yet, and yet, there's one thing when a fan
35:02
Speaker 1: says in the bar, I can't do it anymore, even
35:06
Speaker 1: though they might be secretly watching it. It's another thing
35:11
Speaker 1: when you keep losing successful head coaches. I mean, Dusty
35:16
Speaker 1: May's making the decision. I'm leaving a great university, a
35:22
Speaker 1: great program after a national championship year. Because I don't
35:27
Speaker 1: want to do this every off season and have to
35:30
Speaker 1: rebuild my team from scratch every single year. I'm going
35:35
Speaker 1: to go to the security of the NBA, A league
35:40
Speaker 1: famous for firing head coaches on the average of like
35:43
Speaker 1: once every one and a half seasons, a league that
35:47
Speaker 1: is famous for turnovers. And we just had a trade
35:50
Speaker 1: yesterday involving what six players and five draft picks, Yeah,
35:54
Speaker 1: something like that. Their overturn is unbelievable, and here is
35:57
Speaker 1: a head coach like who I've got to go to
36:01
Speaker 1: the security and safety of the professional basketball because college
36:08
Speaker 1: basketball is that there's just too much to do. There's
36:12
Speaker 1: just too much going on, and I don't trust it,
36:15
Speaker 1: and I don't want to have to work my ass
36:17
Speaker 1: off to put together a championship roster from scratch every offseason.
36:22
Speaker 1: That's Dusty May making that decision yesterday, And he's not
36:26
Speaker 1: the first and he's not going to be the last.
36:27
Speaker 4: No, And I don't blame him because it is true.
36:29
Speaker 2: I mean, we've talked about that you need a GM,
36:31
Speaker 2: you know, to handle all the way that these college
36:34
Speaker 2: programs are going and in the NBA and in the
36:37
Speaker 2: NFL and in Major League Baseball, you've got one that's
36:40
Speaker 2: in charge of all your personnel decisions.
36:42
Speaker 3: See.
36:43
Speaker 1: Even then you then have to trust the general manager,
36:45
Speaker 1: which is something ahead basketball coach doesn't really feel real
36:48
Speaker 1: comfortable doing. They've always been the person in charge of recruiting. Right,
36:52
Speaker 1: So it's just funny because college basketball is where you
36:56
Speaker 1: stayed because of the comfort.
36:58
Speaker 3: Right.
36:58
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to go to the NBA and
37:00
Speaker 1: I don't want to deal with attitudes, and I don't
37:02
Speaker 1: want to deal with guys making money. Yeah, and I
37:06
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with an owner looking over my
37:08
Speaker 1: shoulder if I'm only two games over five hundred at
37:11
Speaker 1: the All Star break. No, I'm really good here at Duke.
37:15
Speaker 1: Sorry Lakers, but I'm going to stay here at Duke.
37:19
Speaker 1: That used to be the security, and now it's the
37:21
Speaker 1: other way around. People are actually going to the NFL
37:24
Speaker 1: for job security and fewer frustrations and because they're tired
37:28
Speaker 1: of players making money.
37:30
Speaker 4: It's crazy. It's crazy, not insane, Yeah, it is, absolutely.
37:35
Speaker 1: I don't blame him, but man of all, I mean,
37:38
Speaker 1: if he's not enjoying it, if he doesn't like it,
37:42
Speaker 1: because he's not exactly thirty. He's not like Cali Perry.
37:45
Speaker 1: I'm thirty years into this. I tried the NBA, it
37:48
Speaker 1: didn't work. This is my home. And now he can't
37:51
Speaker 1: get used to everything that's happening in college basketball. You
37:55
Speaker 1: understand why Cala Perry's like, what is going on? Even him,
37:58
Speaker 1: and he's a boat rocker. But when you are like
38:01
Speaker 1: on top of the college basketball world, you've only been
38:04
Speaker 1: really at an elite program for fifteen minutes, and you're like,
38:08
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. I gotta go to the NBA.
38:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, where things are more stable.
38:13
Speaker 1: Whoo, we're in a state, Yeah we are. We are
38:16
Speaker 1: in a state, all right. Spencer Oz next on Sports
38:18
Speaker 1: Radio ninety three point three KJRFM