Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (4/7)

Transcript

Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (4/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:41
Podcast. After a small gap of several
0:47
months, there have been several months.
0:49
I don't have been that long has been a maybe coming up to a
0:52
month after a small gap of a month.
0:55
I'm back here with the marvelous.
0:57
Toby, hey doakes, say hello. Sorry.
0:59
Hello, Joe, how are you? I'm very well, thank you.
1:02
I mean, I kind of know because we've been talking for an hour
1:05
prior to this point. We've been putting the world's
1:07
to rise for an hour. I'm going Who doubts before the
1:10
end of episode four. Not at all.
1:13
I watched episode for earlier must talk about in this one.
1:17
I have got what sorry, first of all we're here to talk about the
1:20
silurians people will know this because they've heard episodes
1:23
13. We talked a lot about because I
1:27
listen back to 13. We talked a lot about season 7
1:31
and its many strengths in their first three episodes.
1:35
I want to ask you, do you think the show, Would have had a
1:39
sustainable future had this formula continued.
1:46
If you'd asked me this 10 years ago when I was humorless and
1:51
angry, I mean, I'm both of those things now, but hopefully, less
1:55
than I would on absolutely Doctor.
1:57
Who should have been as serious and pretty, bloody bloody blah.
2:03
I've warmed very much and God bless the Blu-rays partially for
2:06
this. But again, I think agent
2:08
mellowing Because I always found the sort of Fizz bang slightly
2:15
sort of chummy, a more family-friendly.
2:17
Barry, let's see. You put, we're a bit of a
2:20
disappointment on, on viewing, having read the target books.
2:24
You know, it wasn't quite the adult thing I wanted Doctor Who
2:28
to be that's that's, you know, adult as in what seems adult
2:31
when you're 12. And of course, then when you get
2:34
to 30, you realize actually the adult nurse or or lack thereof,
2:39
Of season seven doctor in season eight.
2:42
It's like showing the twin dilemma and caves of androzani
2:44
to somebody's not Doctor, Who fan, they don't actually look
2:46
that different. So, and I've learnt, I've learnt
2:53
to I'm much happier now with, I did the same season 2 though the
2:58
heart moment and that season get him out.
2:59
I blew it. I love how Charming it it is.
3:03
And I don't mean Charming as in, they were making things with,
3:07
you know, socks and Hope. Hope.
3:09
I mean, I find it. I thought, you know, I find that
3:11
performances Charming. I find the humor Charming like
3:13
the jokes and the and just what it does to me.
3:17
So, I'm much less conscious of the supposed faults of Seasons.
3:22
What 8, 9 10 and 11? And I think probably That style
3:34
of Doctor Who, which is family friendly, which is Doctor, Who
3:39
has a, an odd job to do, it has to be quite cozy and also
3:44
terrifying. And that's really hard and the
3:46
Daleks do it very well, everybody loves the Daleks you
3:48
see people's faces light up when they see the data.
3:51
A Dalek on them you know, on the street.
3:52
So you know we're doing a carnival or a parade or you know
3:56
that but also we are scared of the Daleks kids are terrified of
3:59
the Daleks so they managed to be something that we can.
4:02
Cannon, love, and think of as quite fun that are actually,
4:06
what they are is, you know, you know, annihilating space
4:11
racists. So, so to make so Doctor, Who
4:15
has this curious sort of almost paradoxical appeal in that it's
4:23
comforting, and it is joyous, and it's charming, and it's also
4:27
supposed to make you wet the bed.
4:31
And Think I think season 7 is great and I do love the sort of
4:37
gritty, but it's a particularly 70s kind of grittiness as well,
4:40
with all the film and all of that.
4:41
But I think for Doctor, whose long-term health, I think the
4:47
slightly more Charming cozy, fluffy round, the edges Doctor
4:53
Who is probably a better ingredient because what Doctor
4:56
Who supposed to do is even though it's, you know, a niche
5:00
genre supposedly Lee and it's got this ludicrous concept.
5:04
It's at its best when it appeals to everybody really knows have
5:09
been times in its existence where it has appealed to
5:12
everybody and and and I think that the sort of mixture of that
5:19
sort of mid Pertwee period from speaking to fans and of course,
5:22
speaking to people who aren't fans who were around at that
5:25
time that you know, had a real, it had a really big appeal.
5:28
So I think, I think let some dicks were probably correct.
5:32
I'm glad that we were able to have a year like this so that if
5:36
I want to watch a slightly guts here in a perfect way, I can I
5:40
can tune in and and it's and it's probably slightly more to
5:42
my taste but I'm aware that my taste is not necessarily what
5:47
the show needs and it could afford to be of my taste because
5:51
I know that the rest of who exists around it, you know,
5:54
there's its through that. I was watching the Blu-ray
5:58
version of the curse of Peloton. Hmm.
6:02
Which is like Scrubs up us especially those film sequences.
6:07
They've done an amazing job polishing and then I watched
6:11
episode 4 of Doctor NOS Allah is today and chalk and cheese.
6:15
They are alike. They can felt totally more
6:18
different both distinctly Doctor Who but they are playing very
6:23
different, you know, ballparks Audrey, isn't it?
6:28
Hmm, But if you look at the ratings, We can bang on a lot
6:33
about the ratings in seven is start strong and then it starts
6:38
to tail off in a, it starts quite strong and then gets
6:44
better and better by sort of the Demons is.
6:47
It's flying high. Yeah yeah I and I think, you
6:51
know, I love the seven parties personally but if if I was
6:57
making if you said to me now Toby you're going to be in
7:00
charge of Doctor Who in 1972? To whatever much as I love those
7:04
seven Partners, I don't think they're right for the audience
7:07
really and it's amazing. Just one at one extra episode
7:11
but actually I think some of the, you know some of the
7:13
Pertwee six-part is a too long but in a slightly different way.
7:17
Yeah there's a different the somehow a weirdly different feel
7:20
to a seven partner than to a six-part.
7:22
It even has any 25 minutes difference.
7:26
It's odd. Wow!
7:28
Shall we skip into episode for that?
7:30
And see what this seven-part has to offer?
7:32
/. Well yes.
7:34
Let me just so what's yes, right, I am ready for you.
7:38
In five, four, three, two, one. And now, I want, I want to ask
7:49
you a question about a character that I've been thinking about
7:53
today. Okay?
7:55
Major Baker, who we barely touched on in our first three
7:59
episodes, right? And I think is so interesting
8:02
because Technically he's right in what he say and he has scenes
8:08
in I think is in this episode where, you know, it's like
8:12
they're there, they want to invade, they wanted this, they
8:14
want to that and some of them do what he's saying is right, but
8:18
we're not like him for some reason and I think it's because
8:22
it that's not what the doctor thinks, and that's not what the
8:25
doctor wants to do. Well it's I mean what it's
8:30
funny. You say we don't like you
8:31
because I have some sympathy for him and I but I think that's
8:36
partially to do with put with great compassion and this is
8:40
where I think Malcolm Hulk is such a good writer for Pertwee
8:42
because he very rarely makes the doctor.
8:46
Didactic and and telling people that he will always see like
8:49
when he sort of, let's trenchard, you know, he's
8:54
sympathetic to poor old trench Rd, you know, in the sea Devils
9:00
he doesn't like bullies, you know, the government ministers,
9:02
who who you know, exercise their power, he'll tear them off a
9:06
strip and he doesn't, he does. It does yellow quite a lot of
9:09
people, but fundamentally, he does sort of understand, he
9:13
knows Baker's wrong, but I think he understands The sort of sad
9:16
misguided nature of the character and he's it's
9:18
interested in the book. He's funny enough, he gets more
9:21
of a back story, but he's a little bit more two-dimensional
9:25
in the sense that Malcolm, Hulk, can't resist, giving him loads
9:29
of sort of jingoistic at voice. So, I think when he gets
9:32
arrested by the silurians, you know, he goes up, I die for
9:35
England and Saint George, and you guys.
9:37
Welcome, welcome Hulk's gone. This guy's a bit of a stupid
9:41
patriotic guy whereas here, Isaac one I think.
9:45
And complex performers isn't it is I think he's an excellent
9:49
actor. He's one of my favorite doctor
9:51
who act as it. I wrote him about three or four
9:54
times in different ways to try and try and get something out of
9:57
him and didn't get anything out of me.
9:59
Did right back to a friend of mine and I only learned after
10:01
his death. That he if I hadn't sort of gone
10:05
and I occasionally do work for the BBC or I'm occasionally,
10:07
write documents. I was trying to get myself a few
10:10
credentials that I thought might make it go.
10:12
Well, this is worth doing was actually if I just got on I'm
10:15
Just a person who watches Teddy, and I said it because I think he
10:19
quite resented how he had the business ended for him.
10:22
So so the BBC or being somebody who worked on DVDs or something
10:27
was not with something, he would resist.
10:29
Whereas if I just go, no, I'm a fan.
10:31
And so, in fact, the last letter I wrote to him, I went, you
10:35
know, I'm from where you're from.
10:36
My mom worked in Telford where he, where he spent his last
10:39
year's and I'm from trucks and he's from structure, I did that.
10:41
But by then I just got a letter back from the arms house that he
10:44
was in saying, you know. He's not, he's not approachable
10:47
as I think he'd by then he was, you know, he was, he was, he was
10:51
a bit gone as it were and I he had quite a tragic end, but I
10:54
think he's, I think he's a marvelous actor and I think he
10:58
and he gives Nuance to the character and so, but the story
11:02
is intelligent enough to not paint him as as a total buffoon.
11:08
And he, as you say, he's trying to do the right thing.
11:10
And that's why I think it's very interesting because as is the
11:13
Brigadier, nobody is doing what they're doing.
11:15
In out of malice, the brigadier's pragmatic Baker is
11:21
desperate to prove himself and is slightly sort of lost, you
11:26
know, even even dr. Lawrence, you know, has his
11:29
reasons for doing what he's doing.
11:30
This is a bit in the book where he goes.
11:32
I died for England and Saint George.
11:34
And so, I think he could have been played much.
11:40
He could have been portrayed, much more starkly.
11:43
I love the lighting here as well.
11:46
So I think it's, I think this is all good.
11:48
I think this is Doctor Who You know, showing it's going for
11:51
slightly more complexity and its characterization thing.
11:54
Can afford to do some of these things, but we lose 8, 9, 10 and
11:59
11. I agree.
12:02
Yes. No.
12:02
And then that will, you know, you and I watched the sea devils
12:05
in the BFI recently and have characters like Walker there.
12:09
And yeah, just incredibly black and white is is no Shades of
12:12
Gray there at all really. No.
12:14
I do think he's very funny, but yes, that's I think.
12:19
They started to I was gonna sort of mention this when Geoffrey
12:23
Palmer turns up, you know, they start portraying those
12:26
characters in much broader Strokes, you know, Masters could
12:29
fit into, you know, the power game or, you know, any number of
12:35
boardroom, dramas or political dramas that were on the BBC at
12:38
this time or before, or just after, whereas, chin and Walker.
12:44
And those guys are very much, dr.
12:46
Hui buffoon e, kind of slightly. We more Children's Telly, sort
12:53
of government buffoons than Masters, who is, you know,
12:57
played totally straight. He still provides the same
13:01
partially, the same role these bit more reasonable, but he's
13:05
cut from a much more naturalistic cloth.
13:08
You say, complex, you said, in the first three episodes, you
13:13
know what, Jon poetry does, he doesn't mention that Queen Is
13:17
Dead because he knows That, you know, that will provoke a
13:21
reaction against what he's into trying to achieve.
13:25
But that's a really interesting part of this episode because the
13:29
doctor doesn't really behave like that usually, No an but
13:35
that's the stuff of good drama when you when somebody gets
13:39
themselves further into trouble by doing what they think is the
13:41
right thing, you know, the doctor and I've been deep diving
13:45
into Marco Polo and there's elements of that in this way.
13:49
Somebody does something dishonest for the right reasons.
13:52
But then when they get caught in that dishonesty, that means
13:55
they're right. Reasons are undermined, but you
13:57
can sort of go, but I would, I could see why you did that.
13:59
But now you've actually made it worse and that's good drama,
14:03
because Cuz I'll tell you what else is why they've done it.
14:06
It's the doctor is trying very hard to achieve you know peace
14:10
with the silurians and at every time you think he's going to get
14:13
there, our spanner in the works because get you get God.
14:18
What's your name? Miss Dawson walking go dr.
14:21
Quinn's dead. Yeah I just the wrong moment.
14:24
Yeah. And then later on, don't you
14:26
have major Baker come in and say you know the doctors betrayed
14:30
us. Yeah.
14:31
And I love those moments where Yeah, you you think?
14:35
Okay, this is going to get there.
14:36
He's going to achieve this. This is going to be negotiated
14:39
and then bam and they're not neither of those moments of
14:42
frustrate because sometimes there's a viewer when things
14:44
that happen, it's frustrating because it's what I call the
14:47
old, just call the police moment where it's going to, we would be
14:51
far less trouble. Now if you just behaved
14:53
logically but actually both of the things, the doctors done in
14:57
those situations are perfectly logical.
14:59
He hasn't done something stupid that has made the plot, then
15:02
have to be Elongated because of what and so much modern drama.
15:07
You know, I we quite often turn stuff off where I go.
15:11
Well, if they, if they hadn't just lied to the police, that's
15:14
the one I was. They had just lied to the police
15:16
now or tried to cover up that hit-and-run, that they've done,
15:20
which is really stupid. And, you know, they're going to
15:21
get caught, there'll be no story, but actually, you know,
15:27
he lies about dr. Quinn.
15:28
Because he knows it's a fragile situation.
15:31
And he tries to talk to the silurians because he thinks A
15:33
reasonable way in and he's getting somewhere, but both of
15:37
those things are, then not Twisted, but they are
15:39
interpreted and reported by people whose opinions are
15:43
different and who have equally logical and sensible reasons for
15:47
their point of view, but then put it in their point of view in
15:51
the situation, as it has a written Arisen.
15:54
Undermines the doctors position even though those both positions
15:57
are perfectly understandable and reasonable really, satisfying,
16:00
isn't it? And it the seven episodes of
16:02
Ford's time. Time to play out as well.
16:05
Normally, I will possibly, you wouldn't have time to do a lot
16:08
of this. No, no.
16:10
And it doesn't flag. And it doesn't feel.
16:12
There are no unnecessary car chases and all of that.
16:17
And I love, I love the way the salarians move.
16:20
I love the way they look in these dark, the light that you
16:22
know these Silhouettes that you get of theirs.
16:25
And then when the light lights up the third eye lights up, it's
16:27
a silhouette with a shining light.
16:29
Oh I, we have to mention as well because people will curse us for
16:32
talking over it about major Baker.
16:34
You know Jon Pertwee holding out his hands and saying hello.
16:37
Are you a silent? Okay.
16:38
What the fuck is Doctor? Who in a nutshell?
16:44
A pretty sure this doctors. What is he now?
16:51
He's eight weeks old. You know?
16:53
I mean, he totally owns. I'm thinking.
16:55
Boy, isn't it is so confident and actually.
16:57
So is Caroline, John, there's a wonderful scene.
17:00
That was a few things about where she goes.
17:01
Basically, you either let me come with you.
17:03
You or I'm going to go straight to the Brigadier.
17:05
Yeah. You know.
17:06
She knows her mind. Yeah.
17:08
She's terrific. I think this is a great
17:11
companion. And again, that's what you know,
17:15
Barry Letts his instincts were probably right that after the
17:17
character, like Joe is probably more suited to the, to the
17:21
format of the show, but, but I actually, or certainly easier to
17:27
do as a, in terms of writing and plot and that sort of thing,
17:31
it's a. But but actually you know with A
17:33
bit of effort. I think they could have.
17:35
They could have made Liz is work.
17:37
You know, for sure, although go when we watch syllables I was
17:41
just astonished at how competent Joker I was in that she is,
17:45
she's escaped, she's escape artist punky's.
17:49
The word when I was watching this earlier, I was very aware
17:53
of the really atmospheric ambient sounds in the soil area.
17:59
There's a lot of work going on there to make this very creepy
18:02
slightly. Yes like the echo East I mean
18:05
yeah that that kind of a yeah the walls look at that mildewed
18:10
and molded and you know, like it's damp.
18:13
Yeah and you've and it's got us, it's got a feeling of some sort
18:18
of equipment playing in the background as well as next to
18:21
something slightly electronic. There is a yeah, it's again,
18:24
these these Maestro's of sound that create an extra A
18:29
unnoticeable dimension to Doctor Who you know you only notice it
18:32
when it's pointed out to you, but it is it is it's a huge part
18:36
of the sensory experience of watching Doctor Who, you know,
18:39
the only thing I thought it lacked because he says the knee
18:42
touches the door and says I'll she says is really hot.
18:45
I guess what? They probably, you know, use it
18:47
raise the temperature to acclimatize know it in there.
18:50
I thought they could have just pumped in a bit of dry ice or
18:52
something like that. To suggest there was a bit of
18:54
Heat going on. Yeah, yeah.
18:56
Yeah. Put a bit of sweat on
18:57
everybody's faces. Yeah, obviously it's great.
19:00
The doctor says debate, doesn't he just cooperate with them?
19:03
You know, and find out what you can.
19:06
Yeah. And it's and it's quite nice
19:08
because I because I think major Baker sort of, he doesn't see
19:12
the doctor as a threat yet. So he does lots of I think when
19:15
they go, they do a lot of sort of waving, goodbye?
19:17
You know there. It's not.
19:20
Oh, you know, I'm the antagonistic one and you're the
19:23
hero one, and we'll always butt heads when, when they seem to
19:26
think they're, you know. They're they're on the same
19:29
path. They're, you know, they're
19:30
reasonable humans, who cooperate with each other?
19:32
It's only when their desires their desires.
19:36
Because of the plot in their character, start start to rub up
19:40
with against each other, the wrong way.
19:41
That there's, that there's conflict between them.
19:43
And I like that. I like the fact that they're all
19:45
quite chummy here lookie and he actually distracts them,
19:47
doesn't? He said the doctrine is going to
19:49
scape and he and he gives them a lovely wave and I like all of
19:51
that and he gets he's live like dude the later on when he's
19:55
going. Oh you and your salary in
19:56
friends and it's all a bit on the nose that it could have
20:00
overplayed that terribly and it could have been very Pony but I
20:03
just believe his character. He's a lovely actor.
20:07
Norman Jones, and, and I wish the last sort of ten years of
20:11
his career, had been the pins slightly better for him because
20:14
he had, he had a great career and he's, it's marvelous in all
20:17
his doctor. Well I'm I'm not quite sure here
20:20
on him us works. When he's taken over by the man,
20:24
dragger a thing. But his delivery there, it's an
20:29
odd choice, but he's good casting for it.
20:31
I think and I think he's brilliant in the Abominable
20:34
Snowman as crease on And his Bertram, the dinosaur.
20:39
This is this is, yes, there's a dinosaur.
20:45
I mean, the picture in the book is gorgeous.
20:48
You ever seen Barney the kids program.
20:50
I have numbers for this squeaky American idiom.
20:54
Kids of death? Yes.
20:57
Oh okay. We're coming up to the scene
21:01
with a Catholic what's-his-name. Travis Travis.
21:03
Yes. Because there's a mystery.
21:05
Rabbits, in the book, who I think.
21:08
I think helps them solve it at the end after dr.
21:10
Lawrence has been disintegrated? But no.
21:13
Yes, this is Travis. They'd buy cool.
21:17
Tolbert. Obe, are you mentioned him in?
21:21
Yeah. He is the spooky lawyer clout in
21:40
the Leisure Hive. It has, you know, mr.
21:42
Briggs different story. Yeah.
21:47
And he, he's now, he's, he became the, the director of the
21:52
Regent's Park open air theater. He directs The Mousetrap that's
21:56
on in London, you know that the long-running, although,
21:59
interrupts by covid. So he's a, he's a highly
22:01
acclaimed, theater director. This is proof of just Bringing
22:06
in a brilliant actor for like a one scene.
22:09
Yeah, yeah, it's just a nice little bit of business.
22:12
The why? He's so utterly competent that
22:14
everything that the director thinks of he's already done and
22:17
it makes it makes Peter miles more exasperate, it's fine.
22:21
Yes, yes. It's just like a little little
22:23
needle in. Basically causes arse and it
22:26
gives them a little look and that's it.
22:28
And that's all he does. Isn't it?
22:30
While smile says something, wonderful, in the documentary on
22:34
the DVD, I watch the earlier about It goes.
22:36
As you know there's a fraction of people you know the go to
22:40
work and treat people. Appalling lie, all the time he
22:43
goes and I was really tapping into that.
22:45
We've dr. Laura yeah.
22:47
Well, he's great that that sort of permanent peevishness that
22:51
he's got, Geoffrey Palmer is excellent.
22:53
I mean, he wasn't a name this point, you know, he was he was I
22:57
but, you know, he's a recognizable character player
22:59
but he, you know, he blossomed. You know, much later in life in
23:03
terms of, you know, household name status but I I think he's
23:06
so good in this. He grounds it so well and again
23:10
and again he's not, you know, obstinate government buffoon,
23:14
he's quite, you know, reasonable ministerial, facilitator, who's
23:19
just trying to come up with the best solution and taking advice
23:22
from different sources and yet, the way you've quite sort of
23:26
Charlie says, you know it'll be the end of your career.
23:28
Charles this go, that's quite Sinister.
23:32
I like I like it when he comes in in that scene with Travis and
23:34
Travis stands up and Just sorta goes under no sit-down.
23:36
Yeah, but little touches like that.
23:41
You know, I believe these to have a relationship before, you
23:45
know, before the week's rehearsal they did before this
23:47
and all of its that sort of calling each other by their
23:50
first names. Isn't it as well rather than
23:52
director and yeah permanent undersecretary, yes, yes,
23:58
undersecretaries permanent or otherwise?
24:01
Yeah it's all it's all very believable.
24:03
It's all very credible when you know Doctor Who also has room
24:07
for sort of Larger than Life. Colorful characters, that's the
24:11
beauty of it. You I've said before I do, you
24:13
know, I think one of the gifts of Doctor Who is it doesn't
24:16
doesn't necessarily always travel through time and space it
24:19
travels through genre and it's the serious that can have
24:22
characters like Vogue and sure, NE and pret track and calloc and
24:26
he major Dailey and Claire you know they are all types the two
24:32
days but I was cooking at Story featuring.
24:35
Alpha Centauri yeah director Lawrence is Watching.
24:43
Yeah, I think I do not belong in the same TV show.
24:46
Yeah. And yet Doctor Who makes it
24:48
work. That's that's a, that's a
24:50
favorite of Pertwee, dog. Is it the may I ask?
24:52
Yes, who may I ask is this is sort of part of withering
24:57
put-down. You know what?
24:58
Type of people people really rattled Bowie and his arrogant
25:01
moments in season, seven and eight.
25:03
I think it's hilarious. It's really obnoxious because I
25:09
think we're supposed to think he's being a bit of an ass, but
25:13
he just sort of manages to make it work.
25:15
I think it's because Pertwee inhabits presence.
25:19
So well, hmm, you know, he can be sort of big in his scolding
25:23
and in his sort of patronising because he's because he's big in
25:27
everything else. He's big in his outfit, he's big
25:29
in his hair. He's a, he's a, he's a presence.
25:32
So therefore, you can, he can go to seems that might look, that
25:37
might not quite contain themselves in lesser presences.
25:40
If you like I was watching the behind the sofas on the five.
25:45
Like, I'm doing an advert for the blu-ray releases here, but I
25:47
was watching the behind us over and Janet and Peter and Sarah
25:51
are talking about Pertwee and about how he isn't charming and
25:56
how he isn't vulnerable. Because he's always seems to be
25:58
in control, but I'm thinking, are you watching the same
26:01
character that I'm watching? Because he's very, he's very We
26:05
funny. I mean, it's Trump.
26:06
Oh he's a very funny actor. He's totally Charming, he know,
26:10
you know, but he's Charming in terms of, he knows how to
26:12
address a court. He knows how to, you know,
26:15
showed showed difference in, you know, in places that require a
26:20
Pomp and Circumstance and decorum, and certain ways doing,
26:23
and also, he's fun to watch being knocked down a peg or two,
26:29
that brilliant scene in the sea Devils that we watched recently
26:32
at the BFI, you know, where he goes.
26:34
I've just made a brilliant radio have an idea then explodes
26:38
That's that, that only works. If you've got a guy who is big
26:43
and confident and, you know, no one on the joke that he's being
26:48
brought down a peg or two in Castle pellets on.
26:52
Is when Katie one in goes, the pilot was exceedingly
26:56
inefficient. And you see poetry just beyond
26:58
her looking. So disc.
26:59
Run is hilarious. Yeah.
27:03
And you know Jon Jon Pertwee the actor is in on that gag.
27:07
He knows. Patient in slightly purpose.
27:09
It's not it's not an actor trying to do one thing and it's
27:12
coming across badly but we know it's exactly what he's doing.
27:15
There are maybe there is an element of Pertwee in that but
27:19
that's fine. That means he's, he's aware of
27:20
his own kind of faults and is happy to send that up.
27:24
And that's the always to me the sign of an interesting
27:26
performer, you know, something else.
27:27
I love about the third doctor as well is he's basically just said
27:31
to Cherry poppers character. Their look, you got to go back
27:35
to government officials and tell them.
27:36
There's a load of lizards under the Earth.
27:39
And then, you know, we're trying to negotiate in see Devils, he's
27:42
going, you know. Oh, Horatio Nelson was a very
27:45
close personal friend or he's got nothing.
27:48
It doesn't care of. It looks like an idiot.
27:49
That's it. No, no, no.
27:51
I love that. And that to me, I think that's,
27:56
that's why I think the doctor is quite an interesting character,
27:58
because he's they, whatever is is above is above our little
28:06
petty. You'll present day concerns so
28:11
he hasn't got time to worry about skirting around the issue
28:15
that he knew Horatio Nelson because his brain is working 10
28:18
times quicker than everybody else's and so he's going on.
28:21
I just need to sort this out a need.
28:22
He doesn't have the time to sort of go.
28:23
Oh I better make this you know this official not feel not feel
28:27
too uncomfortable because he knows he's cover and better than
28:31
all of these people and if they just did is he they were bloody
28:33
well told everything would be. All right and that's quite for a
28:37
series that has You know, fans who, you know, I'm lumping
28:41
myself in with this as slightly can be, you know, disappear down
28:45
rabbit holes, or slightly on the spectral, or whatever.
28:47
You're all of that, that that is that is that kind of a trait of
28:50
being. So sort of focused in
28:52
single-minded about one particular thing that you kind
28:55
of forget about things like not coming across like an arse.
28:59
We're also helps that you've got / without who's decided that
29:02
nothing about this show is absurd.
29:04
So he's going to play every line for real.
29:06
Yeah. And you cut and that's I mean,
29:09
that's I think something that he does brilliantly.
29:11
Well, itself sells the most absurd situation where because,
29:16
you know, doctor if it's not careful, you know, it's daring
29:19
you to go, this is stupid. You know?
29:22
And that brilliant, this is perfect Jon Pertwee moment right
29:26
on cue, he walks in sees three green lizardy things and goes.
29:30
I'm sorry. It's a blessed.
29:31
Did not like this and you go. That that is that is Jon Pertwee
29:36
as Doctor, Who in a nutshell. You know, charming smile, you
29:41
know, bit of John limb, is Yuri a like provide now, why was he
29:47
never in Doctor Who he would have been of wonderful villain,
29:50
you know, he'd been a great villain with me.
29:54
I can't help but notice that the doctor is far more Charming
29:58
entering the silurian base and he ever was in episode 1 when he
30:01
entered the you know, the research center.
30:04
Yes, yes, he's got more time for green than he has.
30:12
A lot. I had no idea what the silurians
30:18
voices would be. Like, before I thought this
30:22
story, I still can't quite describe them, but I absolutely
30:26
love them. And I think they're really
30:28
interesting. And I think hats off to Peter
30:30
holiday because he gives one a totally different
30:33
characterization even though he's sort of sitting there and
30:36
doing them all at the same time. Is he doing them all?
30:39
Yeah, I didn't know that. That.
30:41
Yeah I knew I knew he was in the mix.
30:43
I didn't realize. He's actually doesn't do more
30:45
things with himself. Yeah, he does them all and
30:49
actually also there's good work being done by the by the actors
30:53
in the suits because they've all got very distinct body language
30:56
that has obviously been worked on.
30:58
You know, this is days years before you'd have a
31:00
choreographer come in for a week and drill.
31:03
All the monsters like you have today.
31:04
This was, you know, somebody go. Well shall I recite a hunch,
31:07
hunch your shoulders and sort of do a bit that with my hands.
31:10
Oh yeah. Yes darling.
31:11
Marvelous. That's the monster.
31:19
I don't want to sound like that fine but I do much prefer this
31:24
design of Silo and even though that's clearly sort of a man in
31:28
a rubber suit, it's the head. I love the hate.
31:32
I think these suits bloody marvelous, I think, I think the
31:38
masks are superb. I think I don't.
31:42
Yes, sorry, I have to LEAP on my thing to stop it.
31:46
Cutting off the credits. I think, yes, top billing for
31:50
Norman Jones because ultimate is no longer in it.
31:54
I, I think those salary in costumes are fabulous.
31:58
I think they look really good under that cave Lighting in
32:00
particular. I think the socks are great.
32:03
I am totally sympathetic to you know, the desire of the modern
32:10
production team to go, you really need to see the eyes, you
32:13
really need to seek them out to get us or 32 I totally get it
32:18
but I'm sad that the world has made us so you know I mean I why
32:24
can't we accept you know, characterization and feel
32:29
emotion and get involved in the thought process if of something
32:32
that has a mask with actually no recognizable human features that
32:37
we can see Because I think those Twitchy my mouths and those
32:41
those eyes, and that third, and that in the book, The Gate, the
32:44
body language the tone of voice. I think they all work.
32:47
You know, really well to make distinct characterizations, and
32:50
I'm sad that modern television. Doesn't doesn't doesn't allow us
32:55
to do that whilst totally getting that the new series
32:58
opted to do it the way that they have.
33:01
I mean, I don't think there is effective again, in war as the
33:05
deep, I feel that it's something very cost to me about that, and
33:08
I think, It's a pretty good design.
33:11
It's, I think again, I think a totally logical thought to go.
33:16
Well, let's give them a sort of outer shell, make them a bit
33:19
tall, toy turtle eat, or to I see that that kind of ties in
33:22
with, you know, where they may have come for, what, they might
33:24
be related to. I think there's some very
33:26
intelligent thought process went into that.
33:29
But one there on it, you know, very, you know, starkly lip base
33:34
for stars, but even in their own environment it that it does seem
33:38
to be be more artificial, certainly less.
33:44
You know, mobile and malleable. And let's talk about genocide
33:51
and things like this, but the way they've designed the mouse,
33:53
it looks like they're having a good chuckle about it about
33:55
everything if they're in the back of a signal below this
33:57
morning. Well, and of course, and they've
33:59
all been told to walk very slowly that so aliens walk.
34:03
So they Lumber about everywhere, and they've all got this
34:06
terrible modulation on their voices.
34:09
So they all Satchel e, even though it is three different
34:12
actors, they all sound pretty Be much the same and they're good
34:16
actors. I mean, one of the one of the
34:17
actors principle is an old mate of mine and actually turned up
34:21
in flux tarp on. But, you know, there's not much
34:25
you can do with, they didn't wake up in the first place.
34:30
It's worse. I think its classic Doctor Who
34:34
has a habit of this. I don't think that some Terrence
34:36
wherever it's good, as they were in their first.
34:38
They gradually get worse and worse.
34:40
Why don't? You know, I consider a small
34:42
with as well. And It's a bit, that's it.
34:44
But those original zygons knock those new series, icons are the
34:49
park, and then some that, I think I agree, I agree.
34:53
And, and again, it's all about, you know, a different director
34:57
coming in and go, well, how can we make this different?
34:59
Okay, let's have these these monsters whisper.
35:01
You know, that's quite good. And it seems in modern doc
35:03
tubes, they sort of come in and go and I'm big fan of my doctor,
35:07
they'll sort of coming to go. So, what's unique about this
35:10
monster? Well, it's got a whispery voice.
35:12
Okay, well, let's just have it. It talked like a generic.
35:14
I am a monster, dude. All right, so we'll take away
35:17
what's what's sort of spoke about it?
35:21
And and and and what's so interesting about these things,
35:24
but they've got this sort of fetal position thing going on.
35:26
Oh well that's just a straight them up them and give them those
35:28
rib cages like all monsters. Have NE you go.
35:31
So you're it's a really weird desire to sort of homogenize
35:34
everything so that so that viewers aren't sort of confused
35:38
or whatever the reasoning is where as in the old days it
35:41
seemed to be what could we do that?
35:43
Is a break from the norm of what these things would normally be.
35:47
So it's odds that they drive in those different groups.
35:49
Because the ice Warriors are getting the ice, whereas we've
35:51
got that. Brilliant conceited, go.
35:53
Well, they whisper because they're not used to our
35:55
atmosphere and they talk differently when they're in
35:57
their atmosphere, that's such a brilliant idea.
35:59
And I remember seeing it as a kid and finding that such an
36:01
exciting and thoughtful approach and they come back in one
36:05
doctor, and I know just talk clean on order and you go next
36:10
CGI. Which is their unique thing and
36:15
their hissy voice, which is the unique thing.
36:17
You've got rid of both of those things.
36:19
So what I did, why have you put my if you bothered to bring them
36:22
back? I'll tell you, you think I'm
36:24
mad. I'll tell you one thing about
36:25
the 70s monsters. They just get spot-on and it's
36:29
why I feel like it's flesh. They glisten links glistens.
36:34
So does I gones so that the silurians soda?
36:38
The sea Devils out, it feels, it feels like flesh.
36:41
Yeah, yeah, well in links. Rubble.
36:45
Thanks got little bit sadder than the ice Warriors have sort
36:47
of slightly furry, very stuff going on.
36:49
Don't they? Have that sort of organic kind
36:51
of unfortunate, but then when the marshman come out of the
36:54
river, they look fantastic. But then, when they're in the
36:57
site Starliner, then they dried out.
36:59
So they're all at like they're rubber, you know, well and film
37:03
film. Look like covers.
37:06
A lot of sins are what we're talking about.
37:13
Glistening skin on a question. I'll start the next one with a
37:16
question. It's Glistening skin on a
37:15
question. I'll start the next one with a
37:16
question. It's