Latest / Collectors MD Features / #22: He Gambled the Money For His Wedding & Still Couldn't Stop | The Addicted Recovery Show

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#22: He Gambled the Money For His Wedding & Still Couldn't Stop | The Addicted Recovery Show · Collectors MD Features

• 0:00
  My wife was away on a bachelorette party. I was
• 0:02
  home alone, and over the course of 48 hours,
• 0:06
  I lost the most money that I had ever lost in
• 0:10
  one sitting gambling. At that point, you know,
• 0:13
  the money almost stopped feeling like money.
• 0:15
  It became numbers on a screen. I had this attitude
• 0:18
  that I would figure it out later. I could, you
• 0:21
  know, spend whatever I wanted because eventually
• 0:23
  I'd make more money and clean it up. I would
• 0:25
  buy a box or join what's called a card break.
• 0:29
  spent thousands of dollars in one sitting. We
• 0:31
  made the deal at my apartment on a Friday night.
• 0:34
  They assessed my collection. They said, okay.
• 0:36
  They basically told me that they wouldn't be
• 0:37
  able to pay me out until the following week,
• 0:39
  but they would give me like an upfront deposit,
• 0:42
  right, or a down payment. Between the time that
• 0:44
  he left and came back, I had gambled away another
• 0:49
  like $20 ,000 playing blackjack. Addiction is
• 0:53
  like trying to play a chess game. You're always
• 0:55
  trying to maneuver the pieces on the board and
• 0:57
  be like. multiple steps ahead of your opponent.
• 1:00
  When in reality, your opponent, it's like your
• 1:02
  wife, your spouse, your loved ones. That's the
• 1:04
  sick, twisted part of it. This episode is supported
• 1:07
  by Gamban. Addiction loves a negotiation. Gamban
• 1:11
  removes that conversation altogether. Today,
• 1:13
  I'm not talking to another former gambling addict
• 1:15
  in the traditional sense. I'm sitting down with
• 1:17
  someone who's identified something that most
• 1:19
  people in recovery have never even considered.
• 1:22
  Can collecting become a form of gambling? Alyx
• 1:25
  isn't approaching it from an academic perspective.
• 1:27
  He's lived this. He went from collecting sports
• 1:29
  cards, sneakers, watches, memorabilia. At one
• 1:32
  point he actually owned 550 pairs of sneakers.
• 1:36
  That progressed into sports betting, eventually
• 1:38
  live blackjack, where the combination of gambling
• 1:41
  and compulsive collecting nearly cost him his
• 1:43
  marriage, finances, career, even his livelihood.
• 1:47
  He now describes compulsive collecting as the
• 1:49
  doorway that led him to recognizing his addictive
• 1:52
  behaviors. And I'm so excited to get into this
• 1:54
  conversation today to just see how those two
• 1:57
  things line up. Alyx, welcome to the Addicted
• 2:00
  Recovery Show. Thanks so much for having me,
• 2:02
  Danny. Really excited about this conversation.
• 2:04
  And it was great to meet you a couple of weeks
• 2:07
  ago in Nashville. Sure was. It was amazing. My
• 2:10
  first ever trip to America and we sat next to
• 2:13
  each other for Adam's time capsule, addiction
• 2:16
  time capsule. It was an amazing thing, but it
• 2:18
  was just amazing meeting so many new people and
• 2:20
  catching up with yourself and getting this arranged,
• 2:22
  getting this booked in. Yeah. Couldn't agree
• 2:25
  more. You're going to get the same treatment
• 2:27
  all of my guests get. Big question straight off,
• 2:30
  straight in at the deep end. If I ask you to
• 2:33
  think of your most powerful gambling memory,
• 2:36
  what comes to mind? yeah Danny there are honestly
• 2:39
  a lot of memories that come to mind and you know
• 2:41
  some of them really blurred together because
• 2:44
  there were just so many periods where gambling
• 2:47
  was was absolutely consuming my life right there
• 2:50
  were big wins there were enormous losses there
• 2:55
  were nights where i was just sitting in front
• 2:57
  of my phone for hours playing live blackjack
• 3:00
  there were times i was gambling during the work
• 3:02
  day you know and some really painful conversations
• 3:06
  with my wife and my family. But one period that
• 3:09
  has always really stood out through my active
• 3:14
  addiction and recovery happened in April of 2023.
• 3:19
  My wife was away on a bachelorette party. I was
• 3:22
  home alone. And over the course of, it's called
• 3:25
  48 hours, I lost the most money that I had ever
• 3:30
  lost in one sitting gambling. And I think what
• 3:34
  stays with me more than the actual amount is
• 3:37
  what was happening in my head at the time, right?
• 3:39
  Because that's the part that's really hard to
• 3:41
  explain to somebody who hasn't experienced true
• 3:44
  gambling addiction. At that point, the money
• 3:48
  almost stopped feeling like money. It became
• 3:50
  numbers on a screen, right? We often say that
• 3:54
  money within an app feels like monopoly money,
• 3:58
  feels like it's not real. We lose the... respect
• 4:01
  for the value of a dollar, that couldn't have
• 4:04
  been more true over the course of those few days.
• 4:08
  I would lose a certain amount, and instead of
• 4:12
  stopping, my brain would immediately shift into
• 4:15
  trying to recover it. Then I'd lose more, and
• 4:17
  suddenly the amount I felt like I needed to get
• 4:20
  back became even bigger. It just would keep escalating
• 4:23
  until I wasn't really thinking about what any
• 4:26
  of that money represented in real life anymore.
• 4:28
  So I wasn't thinking about savings or a mortgage
• 4:32
  or what that money could mean for my wife and
• 4:37
  me. I was completely locked into just chasing
• 4:40
  my losses, getting back to even. And I think
• 4:44
  that's one of the strangest parts of gambling
• 4:47
  addiction. Eventually, you're not even gambling
• 4:49
  because it feels good. You're gambling because
• 4:52
  the gambling itself has created so much anxiety.
• 4:57
  fear, shame, you know, isolation that you convince
• 5:01
  yourself gambling again is the only way to make
• 5:03
  those feelings disappear. And so I remember,
• 5:06
  you know, being home by myself during that stretch
• 5:09
  and just feeling completely broken. You know,
• 5:11
  I had only been married for all of six months
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  at that point. You know, I had a career from
• 5:18
  the outside. My life probably looked. still looked
• 5:21
  you know pretty normal but internally i knew
• 5:23
  that things had become completely unmanageable
• 5:26
  and what made that moment even more painful was
• 5:28
  that you know it wasn't the first time i experienced
• 5:30
  serious consequences there had already been major
• 5:34
  financial problems uh over the course of a year
• 5:37
  plus you know uh my marriage had already been
• 5:41
  put under enormous stress in such a short time
• 5:44
  my family had already become involved i already
• 5:47
  knew that gambling was you know, really damaging
• 5:50
  my life. And yet knowing all of that still wasn't
• 5:53
  enough to make me stop. And that was one of those
• 5:56
  moments where I really started understanding
• 5:58
  that addiction wasn't simply a matter of, of
• 6:00
  knowing better. You know, I knew better. I knew
• 6:03
  exactly what gambling was doing to me. We call
• 6:05
  that in recovery, advanced insanity, right? The
• 6:08
  problem was that once I got into that cycle,
• 6:11
  I couldn't reliably control what happened next.
• 6:13
  And so that period eventually led to Me self
• 6:17
  -excluding and entering treatment at Right Choice
• 6:20
  Recovery here in New Jersey. But even, you know,
• 6:23
  then the story wasn't clean. I wish I could say
• 6:26
  that was like the moment everything changed permanently
• 6:27
  and I never struggled again. But, you know, recovery
• 6:30
  didn't happen that way for me. It took treatment,
• 6:33
  GA, you know, numerous setbacks, eventually,
• 6:38
  you know, a small relapse and a much deeper understanding
• 6:40
  of the fact that simply stopping gambling wasn't
• 6:43
  enough. I love the comparison of like, the real
• 6:46
  world money and gambling money like seeing them
• 6:48
  as two different things like the numbers on the
• 6:50
  screen don't matter it's just ammunition to keep
• 6:53
  going and you took me back to a conversation
• 6:55
  I've had with someone previous where they spoke
• 6:57
  about like they were they had a big win they
• 6:59
  were like six figures win they blew it all they
• 7:03
  went downstairs and there was a bill on the side
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  for like 200 pound like a gas bill and they didn't
• 7:07
  have the money for that and it's like I've just
• 7:08
  gambled that 200 ,000 times over I've just lost
• 7:12
  that money but now I don't have enough to pay
• 7:14
  this bill. It's like we split the money into
• 7:17
  two different categories. I love how you've just
• 7:19
  described that. And I noticed you were holding
• 7:24
  back the figures. You didn't mention figures
• 7:26
  and you also said life has become unmanageable.
• 7:29
  So I've already clicked on to, there's a fellow
• 7:31
  GA here, but don't ruin it yet. Don't admit it
• 7:34
  yet. We'll talk more on that as we get there.
• 7:38
  But what I like to do now, Alyx, rewind back
• 7:41
  to the start. Normally, I ask, what was early
• 7:44
  life like? And build me up to your first exposure
• 7:46
  with gambling. But this is the part of the conversation
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  I'm so excited about. It's like, I don't know
• 7:51
  what to ask you. Like where, what came first?
• 7:53
  How did it start? So take me back to early childhood
• 7:56
  and tell me what you think I should know. Yeah,
• 7:58
  so I am 36 years old now. I live in New Jersey.
• 8:02
  I'm married. You know, today, a huge part of
• 8:04
  my life just revolves around recovery and the
• 8:06
  work I'm doing around gambling addiction. compulsive
• 8:09
  collecting and some of these gambling adjacent
• 8:11
  behaviors that have just become so common in
• 8:14
  collecting culture. That's obviously a very different
• 8:18
  version of me than the person I was five or six
• 8:21
  years ago. For most of my adult life, I was very
• 8:25
  career driven. I was very ambitious. I was always
• 8:27
  trying to move forward and do more. I went to
• 8:31
  Penn State. I built a career in marketing and
• 8:34
  business development. From the outside, again,
• 8:36
  I think most people probably would have looked
• 8:38
  at me and thought I was doing pretty well, right?
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  And at the same time, I had always been somebody
• 8:43
  who became very obsessive about things I was
• 8:46
  interested in. Collecting was part of my life
• 8:48
  from the time I was a kid, right? Sports cards,
• 8:51
  Pokemon, memorabilia, all of that was really
• 8:54
  rooted in family and purity and nostalgia for
• 8:58
  me. You know, there was something just so pure
• 9:01
  about collecting when I was younger. having something
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  tangible, finding something you loved, being
• 9:08
  able to organize it, appreciate it, and feeling
• 9:11
  like connected to something, right? And there's
• 9:14
  so many memories that I have growing up. Like
• 9:17
  my grandfather was a huge collector. He really
• 9:21
  is the one who got me into. collecting, right?
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  I would always go over to my grandparents' house
• 9:26
  and just marvel at his incredible collection.
• 9:29
  And I would say like, you know, all in all, like
• 9:31
  I had a, I had a good childhood and I always
• 9:33
  try to make that clear because I don't want to
• 9:35
  go back and rewrite everything through the lens
• 9:36
  of addiction and make it sound like there was
• 9:38
  some obvious path that was always going to lead
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  here, right? Like I grew up around. know family
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  i had brother and sister i was the oldest of
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  three um i loved sports i loved all the normal
• 9:51
  things right and collecting was actually like
• 9:53
  one of the really positive things in my childhood
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  right again the cards pokemon memorabilia toys
• 10:00
  like a lot of it was just connected to family
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  and and fond memories and what i can see differently
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  now is that you know I always had a very intense
• 10:11
  personality when I became interested in something.
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  I've never really been somebody who does things
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  halfway. Like if I liked something, I wanted
• 10:19
  to know everything about it, right? If I collected
• 10:21
  something, I wanted a lot of it. If I had a goal,
• 10:24
  I wanted to accomplish it quickly and move on
• 10:26
  to the next goal. And that part, I think, of
• 10:29
  my personality has helped me professionally.
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  And it's probably part of why I'm able to build
• 10:35
  the things I'm building today, especially in
• 10:37
  such a short time. So I don't look at it as inherently
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  bad or like bad quality. The problem was that
• 10:44
  I didn't have good boundaries around it, right?
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  As I got older, collecting gradually became less
• 10:49
  about appreciating something and more about,
• 10:52
  you know, just acquiring the next thing, really
• 10:54
  chasing the adrenaline, the dopamine high, right?
• 10:59
  Like sneakers, like you mentioned, were a big
• 11:01
  example of that for me. Like I eventually had
• 11:04
  hundreds of pairs and I was spending a lot of
• 11:06
  money even when I didn't really have, you know,
• 11:09
  the financial room to keep doing that. And the
• 11:11
  way I justified it was always that like I was
• 11:13
  doing well professionally and eventually I would
• 11:15
  make enough money to wipe out whatever debt I
• 11:17
  had accumulated. And I was constantly, you know,
• 11:21
  borrowing from this like imaginary future version
• 11:24
  of myself who is in my head going to become successful
• 11:27
  enough to fix all of my. financial issues right
• 11:30
  i didn't recognize it as like part of the same
• 11:33
  pattern at the time but looking back now a lot
• 11:35
  of the thinking that later showed up in a in
• 11:37
  in my gambling addiction was already there the
• 11:41
  like one thing that's just popped in you said
• 11:43
  like that you're borrowing from your future self
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  as you're purchasing those sneakers as you're
• 11:48
  you're compulsively collecting them have you
• 11:51
  got the intention of them rising in value and
• 11:55
  you selling them on later Or when you say like
• 11:58
  borrowing from your future self, you don't know
• 11:59
  just how your professional side will eventually
• 12:01
  make enough money to support this, this habit,
• 12:03
  this hobby, sorry. Or is it, is it, these are,
• 12:07
  these are going to be the money. I'm referencing
• 12:09
  when I was like in my mid twenties and I was
• 12:12
  buying everything, you know, that caught my eye
• 12:17
  and I knew I was spending beyond my means. Like
• 12:19
  I was doing again, doing well, but not well enough
• 12:22
  to be able to afford the lifestyle that I was
• 12:25
  living. i also had student loan debt and you
• 12:28
  know as part of the overspending and compulsive
• 12:31
  behavior i started to accrue credit card debt
• 12:33
  i eventually started consolidating loans things
• 12:35
  of that nature and it just uh you know it was
• 12:39
  manageable and then until it like wasn't but
• 12:42
  again like then in my head i kept telling myself
• 12:45
  that i would i would find a way you know i would
• 12:48
  just continue climbing the corporate ladder and
• 12:50
  eventually i'd be able to you know wipe the slate
• 12:52
  clean easily and Of course, that never happened,
• 12:56
  but I also never anticipated that I would also
• 12:58
  develop a severe gambling disorder. So it's not
• 13:02
  even with the intention of them increasing in
• 13:05
  value and selling them. You want to keep them.
• 13:07
  I think a part of me justified it that way. I
• 13:11
  would tell myself that these were my tangible
• 13:13
  investments and, you know, a lot of the modern
• 13:16
  day platforms and technology kind of reinforced.
• 13:20
  that justification right you have platforms like
• 13:23
  stock x for instance which quite literally is
• 13:25
  like you know uh copy and paste in a way of like
• 13:30
  you know the stock market right like you're you
• 13:33
  have a ticker at the bottom and you have you
• 13:36
  know the listings that show the you know volatility
• 13:40
  and the ebbs and flows of like you know a particular
• 13:43
  pair of sneakers so i think in my mind yeah of
• 13:46
  course like i was i told myself that i was investing
• 13:51
  in something when in reality it was just like
• 13:53
  i was chasing a feeling like i it became a part
• 13:57
  of my identity i i had such a hard time parting
• 14:00
  ways with anything that i owned right like i
• 14:03
  rarely sold and until you know i ended up putting
• 14:07
  myself in um some really bad spots where i had
• 14:10
  no other choice would you wear the sneakers or
• 14:13
  are they like in a box like pristine condition
• 14:15
  never used type of thing yeah so i would say
• 14:18
  i mostly didn't wear them just because it got
• 14:21
  to a point where i had so many pairs that um
• 14:25
  i could have quite literally worn a different
• 14:27
  pair every day for like almost two years i mean
• 14:30
  that's insane um they they were like trophies
• 14:34
  in a lot of ways right like they were like display
• 14:37
  pieces i had these and i i don't know if you
• 14:39
  could see behind me from what's left of my sneaker
• 14:41
  collection which is quite literally a fraction
• 14:44
  they would i would buy these clear uh translucent
• 14:48
  drop from containers from the container store
• 14:50
  that are stackable they have these these doors
• 14:53
  on them that you can you know easily take them
• 14:55
  in or take them out put them back in and i would
• 14:58
  display them right i would i would have walls
• 15:00
  and walls of sneakers in my apartment and again
• 15:04
  like i was i was the guy who was heavily immersed
• 15:08
  in the sneaker world i was the sneaker head like
• 15:10
  and it was a part of my my identity and, you
• 15:14
  know, a part of my bravado, right? Like I just
• 15:17
  always wanted to people to perceive me in a way
• 15:22
  that I could, you know, get anything I wanted.
• 15:25
  And so it wasn't like I was going to Foot Locker
• 15:28
  and just buying whatever I liked, you know, at
• 15:32
  the store on, you know, any given afternoon on
• 15:35
  like a weekday. These were like highly coveted
• 15:38
  releases that I was chasing, right? pairs that
• 15:42
  would sell out instantly resellers would be lining
• 15:44
  up you know for for hours or days at times to
• 15:48
  make sure that they secured a pair at retail
• 15:50
  like my collection was worth my sneaker collection
• 15:54
  was worth a significant amount of money but one
• 15:56
  thing about sneakers that that i've always found
• 15:59
  interesting that unlike other tangible commodities
• 16:03
  sports cards coins memorabilia those things can
• 16:07
  be preserved a lot easier than sneakers can uh,
• 16:11
  sneakers, just the way that they're, they're
• 16:14
  made, they're produced. They have a tendency,
• 16:17
  especially older models like Jordan retros. And
• 16:21
  when I say older models, I mean like a pair of
• 16:24
  Jordan ones, which came out in like 1985, they'll
• 16:28
  make again today. Right. Or a pair of Jordan
• 16:30
  threes or fives or sevens. Those all came out
• 16:34
  in the eighties and nineties, but they retro
• 16:35
  them, they bring them back. Right. And so the
• 16:38
  materials they use for those. older silhouettes
• 16:40
  have a tendency to deteriorate a lot faster than
• 16:46
  like modern day shoes that use like synthetic
• 16:48
  tech right and so though the midsoles could crumble
• 16:52
  they yellow easily you know they become oxidized
• 16:54
  there's a lot of issues with sneakers in particular
• 16:57
  that prevent you from really being able to preserve
• 17:00
  them for more than like 20 30 years so it's not
• 17:04
  like you can hold on to a collection like that
• 17:07
  for your entire life and then pass it down to
• 17:10
  somebody one day. Now, with that being said,
• 17:12
  there are obviously methods and ways you can
• 17:15
  preserve them, whether it be shrink wrap or putting
• 17:17
  them in a certain temperature controlled environment.
• 17:23
  But when you have that many pairs, it becomes
• 17:26
  unrealistic and unattainable to be able to make
• 17:30
  sure that Every single pair is accounted for.
• 17:33
  You know, I pull them out of the drop from containers
• 17:36
  and they would look like they were worn because
• 17:39
  the dust would accumulate in the room. And, you
• 17:41
  know, the condensation within the container would
• 17:44
  cause the bottoms to to scoff or to to get dirt
• 17:49
  on them, which, you know, it's just like it was
• 17:52
  silly to even think that I was sitting on a gold
• 17:56
  mine that could, you know, turn into like some
• 17:58
  sort of generational wealth or something like
• 18:00
  that. Yeah, I'm like imagining like a walk -in
• 18:02
  wardrobe, floor to ceiling, sides just sneaky
• 18:05
  as ever. And if you had to like take them out
• 18:07
  and polish them or maintain them, as you say,
• 18:09
  by the time you started to the time you finished,
• 18:11
  it'd be time to go back to the start again and
• 18:14
  do the first pair. You'd never be able to sleep.
• 18:17
  Danny, like I enjoyed doing that for a while.
• 18:19
  Like I enjoyed, you know, maintaining my collection,
• 18:23
  but eventually it just became burdensome. it
• 18:26
  became a chore, right? When you have that many
• 18:28
  pairs, it's just like, it's overwhelming. It's
• 18:31
  not, you know, sustainable. So I have a mantra
• 18:37
  now that, you know, a curated collection that
• 18:41
  you can appreciate, you know, where you can appreciate
• 18:45
  like your favorite pieces is a much bigger collection.
• 18:51
  than let's say 550 pairs and when i say bigger
• 18:54
  i mean bigger in a sense that you'll appreciate
• 18:59
  it so much more it's it's a real collection one
• 19:03
  person doesn't need that much crap and again
• 19:05
  i can't i want to caveat that if you're the type
• 19:08
  of person that can afford it stay within your
• 19:10
  means spend that kind of money and have it not
• 19:13
  you know take away from your life it's it's adding
• 19:15
  value like by all means you know more power to
• 19:18
  you but again for my perspective. And just based
• 19:22
  on my experience, it's, it's just not necessary
• 19:25
  or realistic for one person to own that many
• 19:29
  things. And then moving, you know, moving when
• 19:31
  you, when you have 550 pairs of sneakers, it's
• 19:33
  like, it, it took, it took weeks just to pack
• 19:37
  them. And then I'd have to like rent, I'd have
• 19:39
  to rent, like forget about a U -Haul. Like I
• 19:41
  would have to rent a truck, like an actual 18
• 19:44
  wheeler. Like it was, it was insane. I see what
• 19:48
  you're saying about like there's I imagine I'm
• 19:50
  imagining like a bell curve where the quantity
• 19:52
  to like how what what it means to you and how
• 19:55
  manageable it is once you get to a certain amount
• 19:57
  it starts to become more of a hindrance than
• 20:00
  a than a help like than a passion there's it's
• 20:03
  a quality over quantity type of type of mentality
• 20:06
  that you've you've realized now you must have
• 20:09
  some some wild stories of like of attaining them
• 20:14
  like have you have you queued up for days at
• 20:16
  a time have you been involved in like crushes
• 20:17
  or something like that to get your hands on on
• 20:20
  certain parts yeah yeah i mean i i lived in uh
• 20:24
  manhattan and hoboken jersey city so like i lived
• 20:28
  in and around new york city for many years and
• 20:32
  um that's like the epicenter of you know modern
• 20:36
  streetwear and sneaker culture and so yeah i
• 20:39
  mean that's where kith started kith has become
• 20:42
  global uh you have supreme you have concepts
• 20:46
  you have packer shoes you have extra butter there's
• 20:50
  so many like boutiques that do collaborations
• 20:52
  and big releases places that i would like camp
• 20:55
  out at uh locally to try to obtain a pair of
• 20:58
  sneakers but then like once bots became more
• 21:01
  and more mainstream they like a lot of stores
• 21:04
  just stopped doing in -person releases because
• 21:06
  they turn into just complete mayhem and um You
• 21:11
  know, it's, it's much safer for everybody to
• 21:13
  just obtain them online or through a raffle system
• 21:16
  or something like that. Um, so yeah, I have,
• 21:20
  I have some crazy stories, but, um, uh, we can
• 21:23
  sit here and talk about that for, for hours if,
• 21:26
  if we really wanted to. What was next after the
• 21:28
  sneakers? What was the next collecting memorabilia?
• 21:32
  Yeah. So in terms of collecting or gambling,
• 21:35
  you tell me where are we in the story? Yeah.
• 21:38
  So, I mean, we could talk about like my first
• 21:40
  exposure to gambling. I would say the sports
• 21:44
  betting was really where it began for me. I would
• 21:46
  say like around 2017, 2018, it became, it just
• 21:51
  became so much more accessible. Right. And I
• 21:53
  started betting on sports pretty casually. Right.
• 21:56
  Like I remember seeing an ad for like a DraftKings,
• 22:02
  you know, risk -free bet where they'll They'll
• 22:07
  match you 200 bucks. They'll match 200 bucks.
• 22:11
  And so I put 200 bucks on the Bears on a Monday
• 22:15
  night football game. I remember distinctly I
• 22:17
  was living in Hoboken with three friends. We
• 22:19
  were just like a frat house type of environment.
• 22:22
  And I just remember it being such a fun experience
• 22:26
  and fun feeling, right? And at first it didn't
• 22:29
  feel dangerous at all, right? Like I've been
• 22:31
  a major sports fan my entire life. So putting
• 22:34
  money on a game. almost felt like another layer
• 22:39
  of entertainment. It made the games feel more
• 22:41
  exciting. Early on, I didn't have any reason
• 22:45
  to think it was going to turn into what it eventually
• 22:47
  became. And over time, I started noticing that
• 22:51
  watching the game itself wasn't enough anymore.
• 22:56
  I wanted action on it. And then I wanted action
• 23:00
  on multiple games. Live bets and the parlays
• 23:04
  and teasers and different opportunities to keep
• 23:06
  betting throughout the day. And it didn't spiral
• 23:10
  the way it did until the biggest change, which
• 23:15
  happened for me when I discovered live blackjack,
• 23:18
  which was around 2019. And that completely just
• 23:21
  accelerated everything exponentially because
• 23:23
  sports betting naturally has some friction built
• 23:27
  into it. You can make a bet and then you might
• 23:28
  have to wait a few hours before you know the
• 23:31
  outcome. right? You might make a bet on the afternoon
• 23:35
  slates, you know, in the morning. And then you
• 23:37
  have to wait till like the evening to find out
• 23:39
  if you won or not with live blackjack and really
• 23:41
  any live casino game, everything happens immediately,
• 23:44
  right? You're sitting there on your phone, watching
• 23:47
  the dealer, a live dealer, turn cards. And within
• 23:50
  seconds, you either get the reward or the disappointment,
• 23:54
  and then you can immediately do it again. And
• 23:56
  so my brain responded to that very differently.
• 23:59
  It was fast. It was constant. There was always
• 24:02
  another opportunity right there, right in front
• 24:05
  of me. If a deck had to be reshuffled, I would
• 24:09
  just go over to the next room. It was instant.
• 24:12
  It was instantaneous. And I got hooked on it
• 24:14
  extremely quickly. And then from there, gambling
• 24:19
  just started becoming less connected to entertainment
• 24:21
  and just more connected to how I regulated my
• 24:24
  emotions and justified paying for certain things.
• 24:27
  I was already spending a lot of money. So I told
• 24:29
  myself, this is a great way to bring in some
• 24:33
  extra money so that I can afford to continue
• 24:37
  living this lifestyle that really, you know,
• 24:40
  in reality I'd become unsustainable. But if I
• 24:43
  was bored, if I was stressed, if I was excited,
• 24:46
  if I was angry, if I was trying to escape something
• 24:48
  like gambling was just, it was always available.
• 24:51
  Right. And like, I would, I remembered, you know,
• 24:53
  at the time when I was working in Manhattan,
• 24:56
  and gambling was only or casino gambling on your
• 24:59
  phone was really only legalized in new jersey
• 25:01
  like i couldn't wait to get off the path and
• 25:04
  the moment like the train pulled up to the path
• 25:07
  station in hoboken and like you sort of crossed
• 25:10
  that border and got your connection back it was
• 25:12
  like i fired up blackjack there were times where
• 25:14
  i had lost uh thousands of dollars sometimes
• 25:17
  five figures like before the time i walked into
• 25:20
  my apartment i like from the time it took me
• 25:22
  to get off the train, take the shuttle to my
• 25:25
  apartment or walk to my apartment. Like I had
• 25:27
  already lost, you know, so much money. And then
• 25:30
  the rest of the night would just be spent chasing
• 25:33
  my losses. Is anyone noticing any friends, family,
• 25:36
  loved ones, anyone noticing this, this spiral
• 25:39
  happening in, in real time? I get that question
• 25:41
  asked all the time. And I usually say yes, just
• 25:44
  because, you know, it's, it's hard not to notice,
• 25:46
  but I think the, the real answer is that I was
• 25:50
  so consumed that I couldn't even tell. And I,
• 25:53
  didn't even care right like i i think i didn't
• 25:57
  realize like i gambling had become a real problem
• 26:00
  and so there was like a long period where i i
• 26:03
  just i knew there were like i knew that there
• 26:07
  was a problem i think subconsciously but i just
• 26:10
  hadn't accepted what that problem actually was
• 26:12
  right like i knew that i was i wasn't doing it
• 26:16
  wasn't normal right to rush home and and feel
• 26:19
  that excited to to play blackjack right like
• 26:23
  i knew i was spending way too much time gambling
• 26:24
  i knew i was losing too much money i knew i was
• 26:27
  starting to hide things and structure parts of
• 26:29
  my life around it but like i was incredibly good
• 26:32
  at rationalizing everything not just like externally
• 26:34
  but internally right like literally tricking
• 26:37
  myself that devil on my shoulder would convince
• 26:39
  me i would tell myself like i just had a bad
• 26:43
  week or like that i needed to get back to even
• 26:45
  and And I would stop and I would remind myself
• 26:47
  that, you know, again, like I have a good job.
• 26:49
  I have a good career. Like my income would continue
• 26:52
  going up. I genuinely, genuinely believe that
• 26:55
  eventually I would earn enough money to fix all
• 26:58
  of the problems that I created. And then beyond
• 27:00
  just the finances, you know, there was a lot
• 27:02
  of ego involved, right? Like I had always thought
• 27:05
  of myself as like a very capable person. I had
• 27:08
  built a successful career in advertising and
• 27:11
  media. I was well -educated. I could solve problems.
• 27:15
  So when gambling started becoming problematic,
• 27:18
  my natural instinct was that I should be able
• 27:22
  to solve it myself as a capable adult. And that
• 27:26
  actually became one of the biggest barriers to
• 27:28
  recovery because asking for help felt like admitting
• 27:33
  that I couldn't handle something on my own. And
• 27:36
  it took me a long time to understand that there
• 27:38
  was a real difference between intelligence, and
• 27:42
  control. I could understand exactly what gambling
• 27:45
  was doing to me and still not be capable of managing
• 27:49
  it on my own. And again, that ties back to this
• 27:52
  concept of advanced insanity where, you know,
• 27:55
  we, we know what we're doing is wrong, but we
• 27:57
  still do it anyway. I love that. I ask him for
• 28:00
  help, like how trapped you were by just trying
• 28:02
  to do it yourself. That was the exact same, my
• 28:04
  ego. So I'm going to speak to everyone here watching
• 28:06
  with us now. Like if you're struggling right
• 28:08
  now, if you're right in the midst of it. stop
• 28:11
  waiting just reach out now reach out to a loved
• 28:13
  one reach out to a friend find a meeting online
• 28:15
  find someone that you can talk to and share what's
• 28:18
  going on because the addiction thrives in secrecy
• 28:21
  the longer as Alyx has just said the longer you
• 28:23
  keep trying to do this yourself the longer you
• 28:25
  keep it to yourself the more you're just delaying
• 28:27
  the misery you're delaying the time that it's
• 28:29
  going to take you to get into recovery and get
• 28:31
  on top of this at where's comment below and let
• 28:33
  me know what's going on let me and Alyx know
• 28:35
  what's going on and we'll try and help out the
• 28:37
  like you spoke about how Now, I presume now you
• 28:41
  can see looking back, it was an escape. When
• 28:43
  you felt happy, you felt angry, you felt sad,
• 28:45
  you went to gamble to escape. In the moment,
• 28:48
  like in real time as you're doing it, what do
• 28:51
  you believe it's giving you? Like you use the
• 28:52
  word that I always say, I was convinced I was
• 28:55
  going to win. Despite losing 999 times previous,
• 28:58
  this next one was going to be that big win. And
• 29:00
  that just kept me going because I was convinced
• 29:01
  it was all going to come right. What was it giving
• 29:04
  you as you're doing it? It was giving me an unbelievable
• 29:07
  dopamine high. i became addicted to right like
• 29:11
  it got to a point where i wasn't even chasing
• 29:13
  money anymore i was just chasing a feeling because
• 29:17
  my the hole that i had created myself was insurmountable
• 29:20
  and i was playing blackjack right i wasn't gonna
• 29:22
  hit a jackpot right i wasn't playing to try to
• 29:25
  win a fortune in one sitting my strategy was
• 29:28
  always to build incrementally over the span of
• 29:31
  weeks months and um when i started to lose you
• 29:35
  know i would just start doubling down and so
• 29:37
  that strategy led me to major, major tilt sessions,
• 29:41
  right? And I think this is something that comes
• 29:43
  up a lot in the GA Yellow Book, or we talk about
• 29:46
  it in GA quite a bit, but it's mentioned in the
• 29:48
  GA Yellow Book. And that's that the compulsive
• 29:51
  gambler so consciously punishes. And that's something
• 29:55
  that I think I certainly did. I think a part
• 29:58
  of me wanted to lose because I knew that the
• 30:01
  feeling of chasing losses, clawing my way back
• 30:05
  to even. felt exponentially better than sitting
• 30:08
  down at the blackjack table and just winning
• 30:11
  from the get -go again advanced insanity that
• 30:14
  is that's insane to say right but like again
• 30:17
  i wasn't chasing money i was chasing a feeling
• 30:20
  right like i needed a hit of dopamine i needed
• 30:23
  a that adrenaline rush i needed that excitement
• 30:26
  right because the feeling i would get when i
• 30:29
  would come back from that monumental you know
• 30:33
  hole that i put myself in felt so much better
• 30:37
  than anything i had ever experienced yeah they
• 30:41
  were the best wins i've been in the in the betting
• 30:43
  shop for 14 hours and at the last the last four
• 30:46
  horse races i've made my money back and i've
• 30:49
  just left there with exactly what i came in with
• 30:51
  14 hours ago but oh my god i feel amazing i've
• 30:54
  just wasted a day in there but yeah that feeling
• 30:56
  yeah it's you keep saying advanced insanity but
• 31:01
  i do struggle with the subconsciously punishing
• 31:03
  ourselves and i have a fully believe i'd lose
• 31:07
  on purpose because then the relief of not having
• 31:10
  money i've always struggled with that i don't
• 31:12
  believe either of those things for myself just
• 31:14
  because that feeling was so good of winning i
• 31:17
  honestly believe i could have stayed there for
• 31:19
  48 hours getting that feeling over and over again
• 31:23
  i never wanted to lose i'm convinced of it i
• 31:25
  struggle with that when i was gambling i made
• 31:27
  it incredibly easy for myself to casino in my
• 31:30
  pockets betting sites on my phone money available
• 31:34
  instantly In recovery, I've learned to do the
• 31:37
  opposite. Make gambling harder. And that's where
• 31:40
  Gamban comes in. Gamban is software designed
• 31:43
  to block gambling sites and apps across all of
• 31:47
  your devices. I'm not going to pretend that one
• 31:49
  piece of software can fix your gambling addiction
• 31:52
  for you. You've still got to do the recovery
• 31:54
  work in the background. But what it can do is
• 31:56
  put a bit of distance between you and an impulsive
• 31:59
  bet. Because urges can pass. No, urges will pass.
• 32:04
  Whether you act on it or not, urges will pass.
• 32:07
  And the harder you make it to gamble during those
• 32:09
  moments, the more opportunity you give yourself
• 32:12
  to make a different decision. Recovery isn't
• 32:14
  just about relying on willpower. It's about building
• 32:17
  protection around yourself. The way you just
• 32:20
  described it, it's kind of like subjective, right?
• 32:23
  It can be perceived in different ways. But the
• 32:26
  way you just described it, it's kind of like
• 32:28
  putting yourself out of your misery, right? If
• 32:32
  you don't have money to gamble, you won't gamble
• 32:34
  anymore and you won't feel shitty about yourself
• 32:36
  anymore. For me, it was like I was punishing
• 32:39
  myself because I loved the comeback, right? Like
• 32:42
  I loved chasing my losses. At the time, I didn't
• 32:47
  know that, right? But in hindsight, when I think
• 32:50
  back to the overwhelming combination of emotions
• 32:55
  and feelings that I experienced during my active
• 32:58
  addiction, that's what I recall feeling. you
• 33:02
  know, the most alive. Like I just, when I'd come
• 33:06
  back from like $10 ,000 down, $20 ,000 down,
• 33:10
  $40 ,000, whatever the number was. And we don't
• 33:12
  talk about numbers, but you know, just to illustrate
• 33:15
  like the magnitude of a situation where I was
• 33:17
  sitting there gambling for 30 minutes and I'd
• 33:20
  suddenly be down five figures and, um, I'd spent
• 33:23
  six hours chasing those losses. And there were
• 33:27
  times where like, one hand of blackjack where
• 33:30
  i was sitting at seven seats right yeah i would
• 33:33
  sit i would sit at the private the vip tables
• 33:36
  at all seven seats and i'd have money on the
• 33:38
  side bets and each hand was like you know so
• 33:42
  much money because of how many seats i was sitting
• 33:44
  at but like there was one you know there'd be
• 33:47
  that one hand where like the swing would be so
• 33:49
  massive whether the dealer busts or not that
• 33:53
  like it would make or break me right and that
• 33:56
  feeling when the dealer would bossed on like
• 33:59
  a 16 or whatever i had never felt that much adrenaline
• 34:02
  like in my entire life like i've done some fun
• 34:05
  things in life i didn't you know like i haven't
• 34:08
  lived like a bland life by any means but there's
• 34:11
  just nothing that compared to that it was it
• 34:13
  was my like it was my euphoria this is an interesting
• 34:16
  conversation that i've just had recently you
• 34:18
  said we we don't mention figures so i've got
• 34:21
  a big gambas anonymous background myself but
• 34:23
  i actually do a meeting each week now that's
• 34:25
  not specifically gambas anonymous it's a recovery
• 34:27
  meeting And the topic was, we don't mention figures,
• 34:30
  or do we? And that was the conversation around
• 34:33
  it. And I described it as, I do, when I tell
• 34:35
  my story, I do mention figures because, but no,
• 34:39
  I'll start with, I understand why the rule is
• 34:42
  there in Gamblers Anonymous that we don't mention
• 34:44
  figures because I said, it can, like, I don't
• 34:49
  really see the bit that people say where they
• 34:51
  say, like, people can come in and that guy's
• 34:53
  lost a million dollars, so I'm not as bad as
• 34:55
  him, so I can go back out there. I don't fully
• 34:57
  agree with that. But what I do think is it can
• 34:59
  become a pissing contest where like one guy shares,
• 35:02
  oh, I lost 20 grand. So the next guy needs to
• 35:04
  stroke his ego. So he's like, I lost 30 grand.
• 35:06
  Oh, I lost 40. And it can just become like that.
• 35:08
  So I see why the rule is there. What I say, like
• 35:11
  I talk about a win. Go on. Sorry, Danny. I just
• 35:15
  wanted a caveat. I think that's definitely one
• 35:18
  part of it. But I also think it's a matter of
• 35:21
  relativity, right? Like some people. a hundred
• 35:24
  dollars is everything to them whereas like others
• 35:27
  it's nothing it's pennies right like so if you're
• 35:31
  a multi -multi -millionaire and you're gambling
• 35:35
  10 000 blackjack hands you know to the average
• 35:39
  person that's like absurd right but to him it's
• 35:43
  like that's you know that's just normal right
• 35:46
  so i think that's like a huge part of the reason
• 35:49
  why we don't talk about the figures right because
• 35:52
  Everybody who comes into a GA room has a different
• 35:55
  story, a different journey, a different path
• 35:57
  that got them into that room. And we just don't
• 36:00
  want to undermine somebody's loss emotionally,
• 36:05
  mentally, relationally, just because they didn't
• 36:07
  lose as much money as the next guy. I've seen
• 36:10
  people feel like they've hit rock bottom, but
• 36:13
  they only lost a couple thousand dollars, right?
• 36:17
  So again, it's all relative. Yeah, that's what
• 36:20
  I was going to caveat. when I tell stories I
• 36:23
  do talk about the £20 ,000 win I had when I was
• 36:26
  19 and I context that by saying I was making
• 36:29
  £11 ,000 a year salary so that's why I specifically
• 36:33
  mention that because I say I won two years salary
• 36:35
  and within four hours I give it all back and
• 36:38
  that can help people understand the trauma that
• 36:41
  that caused I had two years salary on the screen
• 36:43
  four hours later I had nothing and that taught
• 36:46
  me that you can win big money it's there it's
• 36:49
  available it distorted my reality of the probability
• 36:52
  of it actually happening again and it distorted
• 36:54
  the control that I had over it I believe I now
• 36:57
  I've got now a system on my roulette wheel look
• 36:59
  how much I've just made I can do this again so
• 37:01
  I do feel just mentioning 20 grand win isn't
• 37:05
  helpful to people but when I caveat that with
• 37:07
  saying that was two years wages for me and like
• 37:10
  that can then help people understand and sort
• 37:13
  of feel the emotional pain that I was feeling
• 37:16
  in that moment in my story right there's another
• 37:18
  piece there that you brought up that I couldn't
• 37:23
  agree more with right having a system in place
• 37:25
  that really perpetuates the cycle I told myself
• 37:29
  time and time again that I was like this you
• 37:33
  know expert blackjack player like I would brag
• 37:35
  about it to my friends like my close circle of
• 37:37
  friends like you know I thought I was I had it
• 37:41
  figured out like you know I wasn't counting cards
• 37:43
  but like I felt like I was at the same time like
• 37:46
  it was just so foolish and you know so egotistical
• 37:51
  Uh, you know, there's this sense of entitlement
• 37:53
  that comes with being a, you know, a high roller
• 37:56
  or somebody who feels like they deserve more
• 38:00
  than they really do. And I think it, it's different.
• 38:03
  It varies from person to person, but I think
• 38:05
  for me personally, a lot of that stemmed from
• 38:08
  insecurity or feeling like I always needed to
• 38:10
  keep up. Right. Cause like growing up, uh, especially
• 38:14
  in college, my friends were always very successful.
• 38:16
  Like for instance, senior year of college, my
• 38:19
  three closest friends, in, in college where,
• 38:23
  you know, I'm, I'm five, eight and a half. Okay.
• 38:25
  I always throw that half inch in there because,
• 38:27
  you know, again, overcompensating, but I lived
• 38:30
  with three guys that were, that were all over,
• 38:32
  they were all over six feet tall. They were all,
• 38:35
  you know, super good looking. One was a doctor
• 38:39
  pre -med one was, you know, an accounting major.
• 38:41
  The other was, you know, a finance major was
• 38:43
  going to go into investment banking. Like I always
• 38:46
  felt like I needed to keep up. Right. And like,
• 38:48
  you know, did, did all right for myself, you
• 38:50
  know, I'm definitely past my prime as far as
• 38:53
  like, you know, like the way I, I, I look, uh,
• 38:58
  but you know, in college, um, it was, it was
• 39:01
  like keeping up, right. I was keeping up with,
• 39:03
  with the fellas and like that sort of spilled
• 39:05
  over into my adulthood throughout my twenties,
• 39:08
  you know, all those guys, friends from home,
• 39:10
  people were just doing really well in their careers
• 39:13
  and in relationships and going out on the weekends.
• 39:17
  And partying and i just always felt this like
• 39:20
  need to keep up right and like a huge part of
• 39:23
  that i think carried over into my gambling behavior
• 39:27
  right like i ultimately put like put on this
• 39:31
  persona where like i was a high roller and like
• 39:34
  i i got invited to the the games and got to sit
• 39:38
  in the luxury box suites and go to the concerts
• 39:41
  and They would send me, you know, unbelievable
• 39:44
  gifts and things of that nature. And then I'd
• 39:47
  be able to turn around and go buy myself more
• 39:48
  gifts. And so, again, it was this like lifestyle
• 39:51
  persona that I think I was just overcompensating
• 39:54
  for. Yeah, I hear that a lot, including my own
• 39:57
  story of not feeling like enough. But the gambling
• 40:00
  gives us that reputation. People are impressed
• 40:02
  by us. People want to be around us. Like we become
• 40:04
  someone different with the gambling. And in reality,
• 40:07
  we're the biggest loser in there, unfortunately.
• 40:11
  As this has happened, as the sports veterans
• 40:14
  then developed into the live blackjack, what's
• 40:16
  happening with the collecting on the side? I'm
• 40:18
  imagining that possibly had to go to a halt because
• 40:20
  of the lack of money that you'd have available
• 40:22
  now because of the gambling. At what point in
• 40:24
  time are you talking about when I started to
• 40:26
  lose? Yeah. Well, I want to take a moment to
• 40:29
  maybe talk a little bit more about like... how
• 40:32
  my collecting evolved, right? Because I talked
• 40:35
  before about like what it was like growing up,
• 40:36
  but as I got older, you know, I got heavily into
• 40:39
  not just sneakers, but like watches and clothing
• 40:43
  and memorabilia, even like what they call designer
• 40:47
  toys, right? Like cause and bear brick and Funko
• 40:50
  pop, like, and then eventually it, it turned
• 40:54
  into sports cards. I mentioned that, you know,
• 40:57
  before we, we started rolling, rolling the tape
• 41:00
  here. the spending side of it started becoming
• 41:02
  much more significant right like i didn't recognize
• 41:05
  it as a problem at the time because again like
• 41:08
  same thing as the gambling i was working i was
• 41:10
  earning money i was moving up professionally
• 41:12
  i had this attitude that i would figure it out
• 41:14
  later i could you know spend whatever i wanted
• 41:17
  because eventually i'd make more money and clean
• 41:19
  it up but looking back like you know i think
• 41:22
  that mentality really just became important because
• 41:26
  by the time gambling entered my life i already
• 41:30
  had this power to pattern of of chasing things
• 41:33
  and overspending overindulging right rationalizing
• 41:37
  purchasing decisions and believing that like
• 41:40
  this future success was going to fix whatever
• 41:42
  like consequences that i had created in the present
• 41:46
  and so yeah i mean the again like the the spending
• 41:51
  really increased when my gambling became more
• 41:58
  and more compulsive because the two began um
• 42:02
  fueling each other right like so when i got into
• 42:05
  the sports card hobby it is a lucrative hobby
• 42:09
  it is an extremely expensive hobby one hobby
• 42:12
  box of sports cards today if you want like a
• 42:16
  quality product of like a you know a flagship
• 42:20
  set or sport whether it be nfl nba mlb you know
• 42:26
  pro soccer even women's basketball wnba is blown
• 42:30
  up you have like wwe and ufc like they're just
• 42:34
  so many different categories you have marvel
• 42:37
  disney even spongebob has its own set but they
• 42:40
  make these like very high -end sets for each
• 42:43
  one of these categories or leagues or franchises
• 42:47
  whatever you want to call them right and um one
• 42:49
  one hobby box of cards can cost you anywhere
• 42:52
  from like two to 300 bucks to a thousand to 5
• 42:55
  ,000 to sometimes depending on the year and what
• 42:58
  rookie classes in it. Like for instance, Shohei
• 43:00
  Otani rookie set, you know, his, his rookie year
• 43:04
  product sells for like five, you know, five figures
• 43:08
  well into the five figures because the cards
• 43:10
  themselves that you could potentially pull out
• 43:12
  of them are worth significantly more because
• 43:14
  Shohei Otani is in it. Right. So it became unrealistic
• 43:20
  for me to be able to sustain despite the fact
• 43:22
  that i was spending as much as i was so what
• 43:26
  i would do is like i would buy a box or join
• 43:29
  a what's called a card break spend thousands
• 43:31
  of dollars in one sitting and then regardless
• 43:34
  of whether or not i hit something meaningful
• 43:36
  or of value or something that made my money back
• 43:39
  or you know allowed me to profit i still felt
• 43:43
  this like unrelenting need to go to the blackjack
• 43:47
  table to get that money back and in the cases
• 43:51
  where i was playing blackjack and winning money
• 43:53
  i would take that you know extra money that i
• 43:56
  had and i would go and spend it on cards so the
• 43:59
  two were just like you know like pick your poison
• 44:03
  right you wake up in the morning it's like do
• 44:05
  i want to join a break or do i want to you know
• 44:08
  go play some live blackjack regardless of which
• 44:12
  one i choose first i know i'm going to do the
• 44:13
  other after so it was just this vicious cycle
• 44:16
  that perpetuated for years Yeah, I can see how
• 44:19
  those two things are just feeding each other
• 44:21
  and you're just stuck in there. There's no escape.
• 44:24
  How lonely is it at this point in your life?
• 44:28
  Because I imagine not many people know what's
• 44:29
  going on. At this point in my life, it was pretty
• 44:32
  isolating because, you know, again, I would showcase
• 44:38
  this personality and I would tell people that
• 44:44
  I was okay or that I was up a lot of money. and
• 44:48
  candidly up until you know i mentioned april
• 44:50
  2023 is like that you know life -changing moment
• 44:55
  or memory the summer before i got married i got
• 44:59
  married in november of 2022 my wife and i were
• 45:02
  supposed to get married in august of 2020 that
• 45:04
  didn't happen because of the pandemic but we
• 45:07
  ended up getting married in november of 2022
• 45:08
  that summer prior i was up the most money that
• 45:11
  i had ever been up from gambling right like i
• 45:14
  was flush with cash and i was living life in
• 45:18
  the fast lane. And then it all came crumbling
• 45:20
  down so quickly to the point where I started
• 45:24
  chasing my losses, dipped into funds that I had
• 45:29
  set aside for my wedding, and ultimately lost
• 45:33
  everything. Had to bail myself out by selling
• 45:37
  a bunch of crap that I had. And got back to even
• 45:41
  and was like, you know what? I'm good. I'm good.
• 45:44
  I can get this back under control. continued
• 45:46
  gambling. Three weeks after my wife and I got
• 45:50
  married, I was right back in that same hole.
• 45:53
  That was one of the roughest patches because
• 45:58
  I had to acknowledge the fact that I dipped into
• 46:02
  gifts that we received from our wedding, that
• 46:05
  I had extended my limits on multiple credit cards.
• 46:10
  I was already starting to think about bankruptcy
• 46:13
  as an option. that weekend it was you know i
• 46:20
  always say weekend day you know uh moment because
• 46:24
  like these sessions it wasn't like something
• 46:28
  that accumulated over time like i would hit a
• 46:31
  wall i would lose a lot of money in one sitting
• 46:33
  and suddenly i would be faced with like major
• 46:36
  issues and so ultimately i had to go to my father
• 46:40
  -in -law and uh he bailed me out of a you know
• 46:44
  precarious situation that i was in financially
• 46:46
  and at that point that's when i started acknowledging
• 46:50
  that i needed to get real help and i would go
• 46:52
  to ga meetings but for that span from like december
• 46:56
  of 2022 to april 2023 i was going to ga meetings
• 47:00
  and despite taking you know a loan from my father
• 47:03
  -in -law i um i wasn't taking it seriously and
• 47:07
  uh i was still gambling i was the guy that showed
• 47:10
  up to the ga room and said you know my last date
• 47:12
  was today So it was, again, it was isolating.
• 47:16
  It was depressing. It was lots of, you know,
• 47:21
  rationalizing and trying to convince myself that
• 47:24
  I wasn't an addict and that I could figure this
• 47:27
  out and that I could get through this. But once
• 47:30
  you reach a certain point, the outcome is almost
• 47:34
  always inevitable. The house always is going
• 47:36
  to take it all back and then some, which is exactly
• 47:39
  why they treat you the way they do, right? They
• 47:42
  know exactly. uh how to feed the fire take me
• 47:47
  into that specific moment before you got married
• 47:49
  first of all anyone watching who's who's going
• 47:52
  how could you dip into the wedding money take
• 47:55
  me into how you've justified it in the moment
• 47:58
  because it sounds like you're the exact same
• 48:00
  as me you're convinced you're not going to lose
• 48:01
  you're just borrowing but then after that take
• 48:03
  me into the part when you've hit that wall and
• 48:07
  it's all gone and like what's going through your
• 48:09
  brain at that point Yeah, I mean, I felt robbed,
• 48:13
  right? Like I felt like the casino or the app
• 48:16
  or whatever platform I was using at the time
• 48:18
  swindled me and I deserve to get that money back.
• 48:24
  And so in that moment, I would do anything I
• 48:26
  could to do so, right? There was also this feeling,
• 48:31
  this pit in my stomach that I hated, that I wanted
• 48:35
  to go away. And the only remedy to do that was
• 48:39
  to continue to gamble to try to win the money
• 48:41
  back. And so, like you just said, in my mind,
• 48:44
  I justified it as, you know, I'm just borrowing
• 48:47
  the money here so that I can win this money back.
• 48:50
  I'm going to put it right back once I do win,
• 48:52
  but it's the only option. And when you are a
• 48:56
  compulsive gambler, when you're as compulsive
• 48:59
  as I was, as many addicts become, you become
• 49:05
  desperate and you'll do any and everything. to
• 49:09
  alleviate that pain and that's exactly what happened
• 49:12
  to me in real time without me even realizing
• 49:14
  that i'd gotten to that point yet right like
• 49:17
  it just happened so fast where i was like up
• 49:20
  a ton of money and then like a random sunday
• 49:23
  afternoon after like i was out with my wife for
• 49:26
  a day walking around hoboken i started playing
• 49:29
  blackjack and i lost you know a shitload of money
• 49:32
  in a small you know in a short sitting and instead
• 49:34
  of stopping and saying all right let me cut let
• 49:37
  me uh you know all my losses here i just kept
• 49:41
  yelling and the problem just getting just kept
• 49:43
  getting worse and worse and worse and it just
• 49:46
  spiraled to the point where i had no other option
• 49:49
  left and i i did what i did when i gambled away
• 49:53
  the money for the wedding i felt very panicked
• 49:58
  i didn't know what to do and the sickest part
• 50:02
  about it is that my collection was worth a ton
• 50:06
  of money But the ego, the arrogance prevented
• 50:11
  me from even registering the fact that I could
• 50:14
  just sell the collection to make that money back.
• 50:16
  So I went to my parents. This was actually the
• 50:18
  first time I acknowledged that I had a real problem.
• 50:20
  This was in, I guess, like September, October
• 50:23
  of 2022. And I told them, you know, I have a
• 50:26
  gambling problem. I was bawling tears and it
• 50:28
  was really emotional, but they basically told
• 50:31
  me that they would help me. They said, we're
• 50:33
  going to make sure this wedding happens. We'll
• 50:35
  help you pick up the pieces, but you're going
• 50:37
  to have to pay us back and you're going to have
• 50:38
  to get real help. And so at that point, I realized
• 50:42
  that they were going to have to dip into their
• 50:44
  retirement savings. And I went home and I kind
• 50:47
  of had like a moment of clarity where I realized
• 50:50
  like, okay, I need to step up here and start
• 50:53
  selling some shit to prevent my parents from
• 50:57
  having to bail me out. And so I ended up selling
• 51:00
  a large portion of my card collection, did like
• 51:04
  a bulk deal with some guy that I, found in a
• 51:06
  pinch and you know replenished myself and the
• 51:10
  sickest part and i've told this story before
• 51:12
  many times in great detail long story short we
• 51:16
  had a handshake deal on like a hundred thousand
• 51:18
  dollars worth of cards and uh we made the deal
• 51:21
  at my apartment on a friday night it was a guy
• 51:24
  that i met through a mutual friend within the
• 51:26
  sports card hobby came over my apartment with
• 51:29
  a few guys they assessed my collection they said
• 51:31
  okay well how much you want for it i told them
• 51:33
  we negotiated we shook on it they basically told
• 51:36
  me that they wouldn't be able to pay me out until
• 51:38
  the following week but they would give me like
• 51:40
  a an upfront deposit right or down payment and
• 51:43
  so they had to go get cash from their apartment
• 51:46
  or wherever they came from in staten island and
• 51:49
  um from the time that they left my apartment
• 51:52
  in jersey city to go to staten island you're
• 51:55
  crossing multiple bridges right and then get
• 51:58
  the cash come back they didn't anticipate we
• 52:01
  would close the deal that night which is part
• 52:03
  of the reason why they had to go back to staten
• 52:05
  island to fetch the money but between the time
• 52:07
  that he left and came back i had gambled away
• 52:13
  another like 20 000 playing blackjack so you
• 52:17
  know just goes to show like there's that um sense
• 52:21
  of ego where it's like well yeah i just i just
• 52:26
  bailed myself out so like everything's fine again,
• 52:29
  I could go back and play blackjack. But the reality
• 52:32
  is like, I was so anxious in the moment. I was
• 52:36
  the, and I wanted to make sure that the deal
• 52:38
  was legitimate, that everything was going to
• 52:40
  work out, that they were going to end up making
• 52:42
  me whole, paying me in full. I would, it was
• 52:44
  my way of coping with the stress, with the anxiety,
• 52:47
  with, with the entire situation. It was just
• 52:49
  to go back to what, you know, gave me comfort
• 52:52
  at the time, which, which was, which was the
• 52:55
  blackjack. If you had a one on that session,
• 52:57
  that's it. Would you have canceled the trade
• 53:00
  with the guy to keep your collection because
• 53:02
  you're now out of the hole? I've never even thought
• 53:04
  about that, Danny, because it didn't happen.
• 53:06
  And frankly, it probably wouldn't have happened
• 53:11
  because of what I told you before. I wasn't trying
• 53:14
  to win a ton of money in one sitting ever, right?
• 53:17
  Like, sure, I would play slots and like roulette
• 53:20
  here and there, but like my strategy didn't entail.
• 53:25
  sitting down at a blackjack table and trying
• 53:26
  to win a hundred thousand dollars because i just
• 53:28
  sold my collection it was all right let me try
• 53:31
  to win a couple hundred bucks and then like i'll
• 53:33
  play again later and then tomorrow i'll do it
• 53:35
  again and then by the end of the month i'd be
• 53:37
  up like 10 grand right like that was my but because
• 53:41
  of these swings because i just kept doubling
• 53:44
  down when i you know end up in these holes like
• 53:47
  i created these massive losses which would force
• 53:50
  me to play until I would get back to even. So
• 53:55
  there were moments where like, yeah, I won $60
• 53:57
  ,000 in one sitting, but it was $60 ,000 that
• 54:01
  I had lost that morning. You know what I mean?
• 54:03
  So I don't think that would have ever happened
• 54:07
  unless like, you know, some sick twisted part
• 54:10
  of my brain decided that again, like I needed
• 54:13
  to replenish that a hundred K so I could get
• 54:15
  the collection back. But I think I was, I was
• 54:17
  so far gone at that point that I didn't even
• 54:20
  think about it. I just wanted to feel better
• 54:22
  in the moment. I wasn't thinking about how much
• 54:24
  money I wanted to win or what the long -term
• 54:27
  consequences would look like. Again, I just wanted
• 54:30
  to feel a sense of comfort. The escape again,
• 54:33
  gambling, giving you that. You said you went
• 54:37
  and spoke to your father a year or so later.
• 54:40
  Did you tell him the truth? Not entirely, no.
• 54:44
  My wife is, my wife is Indian, you know, her
• 54:47
  parents come from a traditional background. And
• 54:51
  so there's a lot of culture barriers there in
• 54:54
  terms of like, I just, at the time I just married,
• 54:57
  you know, his daughter. So it just felt very
• 54:59
  uncomfortable being brutally honest with him.
• 55:03
  And so I just, I wasn't right. So it was tough,
• 55:07
  but again, like I put myself in that, in that
• 55:11
  position and I was. It was a liar, cheater, manipulator,
• 55:16
  gaslighter. And I was using those as weapons,
• 55:19
  you know, against everybody around me, those
• 55:21
  closest to me to just make sure that I was able
• 55:24
  to sort of stay two steps ahead. Right. Like
• 55:27
  we always talk about how addiction is like, you
• 55:31
  know, trying to play a chess game. You're always
• 55:33
  trying to maneuver the pieces on the board and
• 55:35
  be like multiple steps ahead of your opponent.
• 55:38
  When in reality, your opponent is like your wife,
• 55:40
  your spouse, your loved ones. right like that
• 55:43
  was that's the sick twisted part of it the web
• 55:46
  of lies that we spin and then trying to remember
• 55:48
  those lies for each individual person it's just
• 55:50
  yeah mentally exhausting and so isolating so
• 55:54
  lonely because we're the only one that knows
• 55:55
  what's going on exactly you said at the start
• 55:58
  you told me the story of april 2023 you said
• 56:01
  how you wished it had to stop then but it didn't
• 56:04
  stop then what made you finally stop what was
• 56:07
  that last day like so I had lost the most money
• 56:11
  I'd ever lost in one sitting, 48 -hour window.
• 56:13
  My wife was away on a bachelorette party. And
• 56:16
  it was that morning, Friday morning, when I gambled
• 56:20
  away the last $2 ,000 to my name after chasing
• 56:23
  for 48 hours. I told myself if my dad didn't
• 56:27
  pick up the phone at 6 a .m. when, you know,
• 56:30
  again, like I had placed my last hand, that it'd
• 56:33
  be all. It'd be over. I'd find a way to end it.
• 56:38
  Fortunately, he did answer the phone. And he
• 56:41
  could tell right off the bat that there was something
• 56:43
  wrong. I was delusional, deranged, in a state
• 56:47
  of just complete disarray. And he came and picked
• 56:50
  me up as fast as he could. At the time, my parents
• 56:53
  were still living in my childhood home. They
• 56:56
  actually moved to Pennsylvania a couple years
• 56:58
  ago. But this was in Bergen County, New Jersey,
• 57:00
  which is up north about 45 minutes from where
• 57:03
  I lived in Jersey City. And so he picked me up.
• 57:06
  And I was paralyzed to the recliner in their
• 57:09
  living room that entire weekend. And I, frankly,
• 57:12
  I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't
• 57:14
  know how I was going to talk to tell my wife
• 57:16
  when she got back from this trip. I didn't know
• 57:18
  how I was going to pay off, you know, these credit
• 57:22
  cards that I maxed out within just a couple of
• 57:24
  days. I didn't know, you know, how I was going
• 57:26
  to pay my rent. Like it was just, it was a nightmare.
• 57:29
  And at that point, my parents kind of intervened
• 57:33
  and they said, you need to get real help. And
• 57:35
  so that was the weekend we discovered Right Choice
• 57:37
  Recovery. My dad had been doing some research
• 57:40
  and he came across Right Choice and it's one
• 57:45
  of the only treatment centers of its kind in
• 57:48
  the state of New Jersey that offers treatment
• 57:50
  for both gambling addiction, substance, behavioral
• 57:54
  health, adolescence. It's really one of a kind
• 57:57
  treatment center. And it was Rob Sackowitz who
• 58:01
  was the co -owner of Right Choice who really
• 58:05
  fundamentally changed my outlook. You know, he
• 58:08
  was at the time, it was three years ago, he was
• 58:11
  coming up on 10 years sober from, you know, substance,
• 58:17
  alcohol, drugs, gambling. And he would always
• 58:20
  talk about his experience and turning pain into
• 58:23
  purpose and taking his biggest weakness and turning
• 58:26
  it into, you know, his best asset. And again,
• 58:31
  like with his help and the treatment I received
• 58:34
  from Right Choice, my attitude, my outlook just
• 58:38
  started to change. But it wasn't like overnight,
• 58:42
  right? Like I mentioned, I did have like a relapse,
• 58:47
  right? Like I relapsed in 2024. There was a moment
• 58:51
  of weakness where I think, you know, it's another
• 58:55
  part of my story that's important because I don't
• 58:56
  want to tell recovery like it was. this clean
• 58:59
  upward progression, right? Like I had already
• 59:02
  gone through the treatment at Right Choice. I
• 59:04
  was there for almost a year. I had spent, you
• 59:06
  know, a lot of time in GA. I'd learned a lot
• 59:09
  of, uh, you know, recovery techniques and things
• 59:13
  about myself that I didn't know or realize. And
• 59:15
  there were significant periods where I wasn't
• 59:18
  gambling. Like it was from April, 2023 through,
• 59:21
  I want to say August or September of 2024 started
• 59:24
  in August ended in September. And I had that
• 59:28
  vulnerable moment and stepped back into it. And
• 59:31
  what struck me almost immediately was how familiar,
• 59:34
  you know, the thinking felt, right? Like it didn't
• 59:36
  take long for those old patterns to just start
• 59:39
  returning and the chasing and the bargaining
• 59:41
  with myself and telling myself I would stop after
• 59:44
  getting back to a certain point. And again, it
• 59:47
  was like a moment of vulnerability where I was
• 59:50
  stressed out and one of the apps, you know, basically
• 59:53
  targeted me and said, here's an opportunity to
• 59:57
  do a deposit match. And I said, what the hell?
• 1:00:00
  And I did it. And it's important because it was
• 1:00:04
  a hiccup. It wasn't even in the same stratosphere
• 1:00:07
  in terms of like losing all that money and destroying
• 1:00:10
  all of the progress that I had made. But it's
• 1:00:13
  important to acknowledge because none, like regardless
• 1:00:15
  of any of that, it still was a relapse. I had
• 1:00:18
  self excluded for one year in April, 2023. My
• 1:00:21
  self exclusion was up. And I never, I didn't
• 1:00:24
  self exclude again, but what it did do the silver
• 1:00:27
  lining is that I eventually had a moment of clarity
• 1:00:29
  and I made the decision to self exclude for the
• 1:00:32
  maximum of five years in the state of New Jersey.
• 1:00:35
  And psychologically, you know, that was a huge
• 1:00:37
  shift for me because earlier in recovery, I think
• 1:00:40
  I still wanted to prove that I could control
• 1:00:42
  it. But by that point I had started thinking
• 1:00:45
  about it differently, right? I didn't need to
• 1:00:48
  prove that I could sit. next to a button every
• 1:00:51
  day and never press it, right? Like if I knew
• 1:00:53
  that pressing the button could destroy my life,
• 1:00:56
  I could just remove the button. That's really
• 1:00:58
  like where I started appreciating the importance
• 1:01:00
  of guardrails. And so self -exclusion, you know,
• 1:01:04
  you mentioned Gamban as blocking software, financial
• 1:01:06
  accountability, peer support. Those are the things,
• 1:01:10
  you know, that aren't admissions of weakness
• 1:01:13
  to me anymore. They're ways of protecting myself.
• 1:01:17
  during the moments when you may not be thinking
• 1:01:20
  clearly because that relapse didn't do by the
• 1:01:23
  sounds of it didn't do too much financial damage
• 1:01:25
  or too much trust damage but a good thing came
• 1:01:28
  of it where you realized oh shit and i should
• 1:01:31
  have done this and it made you more proactive
• 1:01:32
  are you happy that relapse happened you know
• 1:01:36
  i never really thought about being happy that
• 1:01:39
  it happened um but at the same time i'm i'm at
• 1:01:43
  a point now in my recovery in my life where I'm
• 1:01:49
  grateful for everything that's happened since
• 1:01:55
  the throes of my, since my active addiction,
• 1:01:58
  right? And those things wouldn't be possible
• 1:02:01
  if it weren't for what happened prior, right?
• 1:02:06
  Kind of think about the butterfly effect, right?
• 1:02:08
  So in hindsight, with the work that I'm doing
• 1:02:11
  now and everything that has happened, since then
• 1:02:16
  like of course it's hard to say like I don't
• 1:02:18
  have regrets like my life took a complete 180
• 1:02:22
  you know at the same time like I don't have any
• 1:02:27
  regrets right because I ultimately needed to
• 1:02:31
  go through the turmoil in order to come out the
• 1:02:36
  other end and be able to take my pain turn it
• 1:02:39
  into purpose and do the most selfless thing that
• 1:02:43
  I possibly could do, which is sacrifice everything
• 1:02:46
  for step 12, which is paying it forward. And,
• 1:02:50
  you know, I feel like I'm at a point now where
• 1:02:53
  I've made enough of an impact on other people
• 1:02:57
  where I feel like this is my calling. This is
• 1:03:00
  my purpose. This was supposed to happen because
• 1:03:02
  if it didn't happen, I wouldn't be here as like
• 1:03:06
  a servant. You know, we can say to God, to your
• 1:03:10
  higher being, to your higher power, whatever
• 1:03:12
  you want to call it, to carry this message forward,
• 1:03:15
  right? Like, so it's tough because there's a
• 1:03:18
  lot of mixed emotions, right? I have to account
• 1:03:20
  for the fact that this had tumultuous damage
• 1:03:24
  on not just myself, but my family, right? Like
• 1:03:27
  my wife, my parents, my in -laws, my siblings,
• 1:03:31
  even, you know, friends, colleagues. There was
• 1:03:34
  a residual effect that took place. because of
• 1:03:38
  my addiction but ultimately what i'm trying to
• 1:03:43
  do in life is rather than allowing my weakness
• 1:03:47
  to you know be my identity i'm using it as like
• 1:03:54
  the catalyst to become the person that i was
• 1:03:59
  always supposed to become i love that i love
• 1:04:01
  that i always say i'm i'm now the best version
• 1:04:03
  of myself and i had to go through everything
• 1:04:05
  there that I went through to get here today.
• 1:04:07
  So same as you, I don't regret any of it. Tell
• 1:04:09
  me more about the sort of what you just scattered
• 1:04:12
  around then, Collectors MD, the passion that
• 1:04:14
  you've now got finding what you were supposed
• 1:04:17
  to be doing. Tell me how that was born out of
• 1:04:20
  all that pain and misery. Yeah. So, I mean, recovery
• 1:04:24
  ultimately led me to deciding that I needed to
• 1:04:28
  commit myself to this, not just for myself, but
• 1:04:31
  to other people. I mentioned, you know, meeting
• 1:04:33
  Rob Sackowitz. I told myself after hearing his
• 1:04:37
  story that eventually I would do something similar.
• 1:04:39
  I didn't know what it would look like, but one
• 1:04:41
  day I would find a way to pay it forward. And
• 1:04:45
  so Collectors MD really came out of something
• 1:04:47
  I experienced personally during recovery. I was
• 1:04:51
  getting help for gambling addiction through treatment
• 1:04:54
  and GA, and those resources were incredibly important
• 1:04:58
  to me. But there was another part of my experience
• 1:05:00
  that I had trouble finding language for, and
• 1:05:02
  that was... you know, the collecting, right?
• 1:05:05
  Like I could talk about blackjack and everybody
• 1:05:06
  understood what I meant. But if I started talking
• 1:05:10
  about spending thousands of dollars on card breaks
• 1:05:13
  or sitting on live streams, chasing, you know,
• 1:05:16
  case hits or constantly buying or selling and
• 1:05:20
  flipping, like I felt like I had to explain the
• 1:05:23
  entire ecosystem before I could even explain
• 1:05:26
  why it was affecting me. Right. And. I knew that
• 1:05:29
  behavior was connected to my gambling. Like I
• 1:05:31
  just knew it because I, the feeling was fundamentally
• 1:05:33
  the same, right? Like there were times I wasn't
• 1:05:35
  gambling traditionally, but I was still chasing
• 1:05:37
  the exact same feeling through collecting. And
• 1:05:39
  when I didn't hit, I felt just as bad, right?
• 1:05:43
  Like, so eventually I started hearing from other
• 1:05:45
  collectors who had similar experiences and we're
• 1:05:48
  talking about, you know, the, the, the trading
• 1:05:51
  card industry, the sports cards, right. And,
• 1:05:54
  um, it has become, um, um, behemoth of an industry
• 1:05:58
  we're talking about you know billions and billions
• 1:06:01
  of dollars right like so there's a lot of money
• 1:06:03
  going around there's a lot of people involved
• 1:06:05
  right and so a lot of people like myself they're
• 1:06:08
  you know hiding purchases from spouses they were
• 1:06:11
  running up debt they were spending money that
• 1:06:13
  they didn't have and feeling completely consumed
• 1:06:15
  by what was supposed to be you know a fun hobby
• 1:06:19
  rooted in childhood nostalgia right that was
• 1:06:22
  really the realization The fact that there were
• 1:06:25
  people who needed support like myself, but didn't
• 1:06:28
  necessarily identify with traditional gambling
• 1:06:30
  recovery or know where they fit. So the actual
• 1:06:33
  idea for Collectors MD came to me like in this
• 1:06:37
  epiphany moment where I was picking my wife up
• 1:06:40
  from a business trip at the airport. And I had
• 1:06:44
  been thinking about the gap for a while and something
• 1:06:47
  about the concept just clicked. Like it just,
• 1:06:49
  I saw it through my windshield, like in the clouds.
• 1:06:52
  And so the next day. I bought the domain for,
• 1:06:56
  I think it was like originally Collectors Anonymous,
• 1:06:59
  like Collecting On or something. And then I quickly
• 1:07:02
  changed it to Collectors MD. But I secured the
• 1:07:06
  social media and I just started building from
• 1:07:08
  there. You know, it wasn't really born out of
• 1:07:11
  like some big business plan. It just came directly
• 1:07:13
  out of something that I personally needed and
• 1:07:16
  couldn't find. And ultimately, you know, I wanted
• 1:07:19
  to build what I wish existed when I was in the
• 1:07:20
  throes of my addiction. What services, tools,
• 1:07:23
  or support does it provide for someone who's
• 1:07:25
  starting to recognize unhealthy collecting behaviors?
• 1:07:28
  So Collectors MD operates a little bit differently
• 1:07:33
  from a traditional treatment center or Gamblers
• 1:07:38
  Anonymous. We believe that collecting can be
• 1:07:41
  rooted in, you know, again, like purity, nostalgia,
• 1:07:47
  memories, connection, camaraderie. And when you
• 1:07:50
  strip away all of the modern day bells and whistles
• 1:07:52
  that have really gamblified the activity, the
• 1:07:55
  experience, it can still be a beautiful thing.
• 1:07:58
  And so we offer two distinct approaches. One
• 1:08:02
  is intentional collecting, where you're being
• 1:08:05
  intentional with your purchasing decisions. You're
• 1:08:07
  staying within your means. You're following a
• 1:08:09
  regimen or a program. And you're allowing the
• 1:08:13
  hobby or your hobby to add value to your life,
• 1:08:16
  not take away from it. Then there's abstinence.
• 1:08:18
  Like with traditional gambling, you can no longer
• 1:08:22
  have a healthy relationship with the activity.
• 1:08:23
  You abstain completely, right? So we help people
• 1:08:26
  identify without telling them what to do, right?
• 1:08:30
  We help them find their footing, find the right
• 1:08:33
  path, find the lane that makes most sense for
• 1:08:38
  whatever it is that they need. And so we offer
• 1:08:41
  weekly peer support meetings that are very similar
• 1:08:44
  to GA in terms of format. We have a 12 -step.
• 1:08:48
  recovery guide that we use as the foundation
• 1:08:50
  for every single one of our meetings. We have
• 1:08:52
  tools and resources. We have dozens of partnerships
• 1:08:55
  with recovery organizations, treatment centers,
• 1:08:59
  councils, coalitions, some of the apps, like
• 1:09:02
  you mentioned, Gamban, Gamphin, Evive, Open Recovery,
• 1:09:07
  the list goes on. But we want to make sure that
• 1:09:10
  we are providing access to the individuals who
• 1:09:14
  need support. regardless of where they are in
• 1:09:17
  either their collecting journey or recovery journey
• 1:09:19
  or both, right? And so that's really what Collectors MD
• 1:09:23
  has become. It's a platform that serves as this
• 1:09:27
  hub for any and all recovery as it pertains to
• 1:09:32
  these gambling adjacent activities and behaviors.
• 1:09:35
  But if you come to us and you say like, hey,
• 1:09:37
  I'm just addicted to gambling, but I love your
• 1:09:39
  community. I love what you stand for. I'd love
• 1:09:41
  to get involved. We've had folks like that too.
• 1:09:44
  And then there are folks that, like myself, have
• 1:09:47
  been involved with the gambling, have been involved
• 1:09:49
  with the compulsive spending. And so we really
• 1:09:51
  just want to bridge the gap between the collectible
• 1:09:54
  space and the recovery community and world. So
• 1:09:57
  that's what we've been able to establish and
• 1:10:00
  achieve over the last year and a half since I
• 1:10:03
  launched it in March of 2025. And I'm just so
• 1:10:07
  grateful for the amount of support and the way
• 1:10:09
  the problem gambling industry has embraced us.
• 1:10:12
  You know, as you know, I presented in Nashville
• 1:10:14
  at the NCPG annual conference and it was just
• 1:10:18
  so well received. I've been invited to join webinars
• 1:10:21
  and present to colleges and universities. I mean,
• 1:10:24
  so many opportunities have materialized over
• 1:10:26
  the last couple of weeks since that presentation.
• 1:10:28
  But, you know, ultimately, we just want to educate
• 1:10:31
  and drive awareness and make sure that both the
• 1:10:35
  problem gambling industry and the collectibles
• 1:10:38
  industry are acknowledging what we call this
• 1:10:40
  double blind spot. where neither recognizes the
• 1:10:44
  other right like the gambling industry doesn't
• 1:10:47
  recognize collecting or card breaks or you know
• 1:10:50
  uh mystery boxes repacks uh gaming like a lot
• 1:10:54
  of these gambling adjacent behaviors as traditional
• 1:10:56
  gambling and the collectibles industry doesn't
• 1:10:59
  acknowledge the behaviors within their ecosystems
• 1:11:02
  as gambling and so again we just want to serve
• 1:11:04
  as that that liaison that bridge that can make
• 1:11:08
  sure that the people that are being impacted
• 1:11:11
  have access to the proper tools and resources
• 1:11:13
  that they need. Anyone who wants to get involved
• 1:11:15
  or wants to find out more, where can they find
• 1:11:18
  out more or where can they get in touch with
• 1:11:19
  you? CollectorsMD .com. We have front and center.
• 1:11:23
  There's a get started page. You could drop your
• 1:11:25
  name, your email, and we'll make sure that you
• 1:11:29
  get the information that you need depending on
• 1:11:31
  what you're looking for. But you can sign up
• 1:11:33
  for our peer support meetings. There's a peer
• 1:11:35
  support. meetings component of the website you
• 1:11:38
  could also email me or info at Collectors MD
• 1:11:41
  my email is Alyx at collectors md .com that's
• 1:11:45
  A-L-Y-X at collectors md .com feel free to reach
• 1:11:48
  out i mean dm us on social media we're pretty
• 1:11:51
  much on every single platform you know my number
• 1:11:54
  is out there too uh if you want to shoot me a
• 1:11:58
  text or give me a call i do my absolute very
• 1:12:01
  best to make sure that i stay you know within
• 1:12:05
  the community environment. So I'm constantly
• 1:12:09
  engaging with our community members and taking
• 1:12:12
  as many calls and answering as many DMs and texts
• 1:12:15
  that I possibly can. So please don't hesitate
• 1:12:18
  to reach out if you feel like you would either
• 1:12:22
  like to get involved to support or need the guidance.
• 1:12:27
  i'm not finished with Alyx here but when i am
• 1:12:29
  finished with them check out the video description
• 1:12:31
  below for everything Alyx has just mentioned
• 1:12:33
  all the links and emails will be down there anyone
• 1:12:36
  who can see your background Alyx can see you're
• 1:12:38
  not abstinent you are an intentional collector
• 1:12:41
  now tell me the challenges that that comes with
• 1:12:45
  how have you managed that knowing what it once
• 1:12:48
  got to with the gambling how like i just i can't
• 1:12:51
  imagine how hard it must be to keep that running
• 1:12:54
  alongside knowing that you have the gambling
• 1:12:56
  addict in you that you have to, you have to stay
• 1:12:59
  on top of. So tell me all about that. Right.
• 1:13:01
  Yeah. My relationship with collecting has had
• 1:13:05
  to change dramatically, right? Like I don't think
• 1:13:07
  there's one answer that applies to everybody.
• 1:13:10
  Everybody is, is different, right? Everybody's
• 1:13:13
  wired differently. Everybody has a different
• 1:13:15
  story and path that got them to where they are.
• 1:13:18
  And so for some people like stepping away completely,
• 1:13:21
  maybe the healthiest option. for other people
• 1:13:23
  there may be a path back to intentional collecting
• 1:13:26
  with really clear boundaries and for me you know
• 1:13:30
  i have to pay extra close attention to like why
• 1:13:32
  i'm doing something right and that there's a
• 1:13:35
  big difference between uh you know buying something
• 1:13:38
  because i genuinely appreciate it and participating
• 1:13:41
  in something because i'm chasing excitement or
• 1:13:44
  trying to hit something valuable so today i just
• 1:13:47
  try to stay much more connected to the part of
• 1:13:49
  collecting that i loved as a kid right? Like
• 1:13:52
  the object, the story, the player, the nostalgia,
• 1:13:55
  not the monetary value, right? Because when you
• 1:13:59
  constantly think about what something is worth
• 1:14:01
  or what the next opportunity might be, that's
• 1:14:04
  how you start to get sucked back in. So that
• 1:14:07
  doesn't mean, you know, I never have to be careful.
• 1:14:09
  Like I absolutely do. It just means I understand
• 1:14:12
  my relationship with my hobbies much better than
• 1:14:15
  I did three years ago. But I always say like,
• 1:14:18
  I'm three years sober, right? Like It's a lifelong
• 1:14:21
  journey and I'm very much in the early, early
• 1:14:24
  stages of my recovery and it's going to take
• 1:14:26
  years and years for me to really be able to master
• 1:14:30
  step work and taking personal inventory and all
• 1:14:35
  of the nuances that come with recovery. But I
• 1:14:37
  am committed to a sober life and I've committed
• 1:14:44
  myself to paying it forward as part of step 12.
• 1:14:47
  So that's where I'm at today. You know, I just
• 1:14:51
  have been so grateful and humbled by the support
• 1:14:55
  and, you know, folks like yourself inviting me
• 1:14:59
  to have these types of conversations. It really
• 1:15:01
  just, it really means the world. What I just
• 1:15:04
  took from how you described your intentional
• 1:15:06
  collection is like what we now do in recovery.
• 1:15:10
  When we're gambling, it's all just about that
• 1:15:11
  money, that end goal, that light at the end of
• 1:15:14
  the tunnel. Recovery is about being present,
• 1:15:16
  about being intentional, about being. experience
• 1:15:19
  in life and it sounds like that's what you're
• 1:15:20
  doing with those cards now like you said you're
• 1:15:23
  you're not just monetary value it's about the
• 1:15:24
  player it's about whatever the actual card is
• 1:15:27
  the the sentimental value and what it means to
• 1:15:30
  you i love that and curating you gotta you know
• 1:15:34
  you don't need everything if you think you're
• 1:15:36
  gonna get every single release or everything
• 1:15:38
  single set you're gonna drive yourself crazy
• 1:15:41
  even if you can afford to it's just like the
• 1:15:43
  bandwidth for one person to be able to manage
• 1:15:45
  that and like I mean, the endless packages and
• 1:15:48
  the sorting and organizing and selling, trading.
• 1:15:52
  It's so time consuming. It's impossible to be
• 1:15:56
  able to manage in today's modern ecosystem without
• 1:16:01
  some form of boundary, of guardrail. So if you
• 1:16:07
  feel like you need a program or you need some
• 1:16:10
  coaching, we can definitely guide you in the
• 1:16:12
  right direction. We have a full -fledged referral
• 1:16:14
  network of professionals that can help. help
• 1:16:17
  with whatever it is that you're seeking to improve
• 1:16:20
  on. But yeah, as we always say, collect with
• 1:16:24
  intention, not compulsion. Controversial one
• 1:16:27
  for you. You mentioned some rookie cards earlier.
• 1:16:28
  You mentioned Shohei Ohtani. What do you believe
• 1:16:32
  happened with his whole interpreter, the gambler?
• 1:16:35
  And was it him? Was it the interpreter? What's
• 1:16:37
  your opinion on that? I don't know. You know,
• 1:16:39
  I'm, look, I'm the type of person with everything
• 1:16:42
  that I've been through. I like to give people
• 1:16:44
  the benefit of the doubt. And, you know, I certainly
• 1:16:48
  believe that in most cases people deserve a second
• 1:16:50
  chance. I think he had, you know, maybe an inkling,
• 1:16:54
  but really just no idea of the scope of what
• 1:16:57
  was going on. Maybe he knew the translator had
• 1:16:59
  a gambling problem, but didn't recognize the
• 1:17:02
  fact that he was like stealing massive amounts.
• 1:17:04
  Maybe he was lending him money, but didn't realize
• 1:17:07
  that like the majority of it was going towards
• 1:17:09
  his debts or, you know, addiction. So aside from
• 1:17:14
  that. minor blemish he has had one of the most
• 1:17:17
  unbelievable careers we've ever seen i've never
• 1:17:21
  certainly never seen anybody like him in my lifetime
• 1:17:24
  who can you know be so productive and efficient
• 1:17:28
  and consistent on both sides of you know the
• 1:17:32
  field in terms of batting and pitching uh but
• 1:17:35
  i think also like celebrities athletes people
• 1:17:40
  in the limelight like They tend to get more scrutiny,
• 1:17:43
  so they have to be extra careful when it comes
• 1:17:44
  to this stuff. But what I'd like to see more
• 1:17:46
  of is people like Shohei Otani, who maybe have
• 1:17:50
  been affected by somebody with a gambling addiction,
• 1:17:53
  step up and get involved in some form of support
• 1:17:58
  or advocacy. We need more of that. We need more
• 1:18:01
  celebrities and athletes, a part of the solution,
• 1:18:04
  as opposed to being on these. casino and sports
• 1:18:12
  book commercials we see all the time. Yeah, exactly
• 1:18:14
  what I was going to say, as opposed to promoting
• 1:18:16
  them, promoting gambling, try and promote the
• 1:18:19
  help instead. Another controversial one, right?
• 1:18:21
  I'm going to get you some quick fire questions,
• 1:18:23
  Alyx, another controversial one. Is there anything
• 1:18:25
  you miss about gambling? Yeah. I mean, like,
• 1:18:28
  what am I going to sit here and tell you that
• 1:18:31
  the, the, the high wasn't worth the thrill. Like
• 1:18:37
  it was, it was unbelievable. I was living life
• 1:18:39
  in the fast lane. I was, you know, really just,
• 1:18:42
  I enjoyed it. Like, of course I did, but would
• 1:18:45
  I do it again if I was given the option? Absolutely
• 1:18:48
  not. I like, I've, I've never tried heroin before.
• 1:18:52
  I've heard good things about it, right? Like,
• 1:18:54
  you know what I mean? Like I, I know it's, it's
• 1:18:56
  not good for me, so I'm not going to do it. The
• 1:18:58
  negatives outweigh the positives. Who did you
• 1:19:01
  hurt the most in your addiction and how have
• 1:19:03
  you processed that today? I've heard, I hurt
• 1:19:05
  my wife the most for sure. And it's been a bumpy
• 1:19:08
  road. Just because I committed my life to recovery
• 1:19:13
  and paying it forward doesn't mean that suddenly
• 1:19:17
  things were peachy on the home front. I often
• 1:19:21
  say that it takes exponentially longer to rebuild
• 1:19:25
  the trust that you took to build with somebody
• 1:19:31
  than it is to actually create that trust. And
• 1:19:35
  that's certainly the case here. it took me i've
• 1:19:38
  been with my wife for 11 years and um over the
• 1:19:41
  last five six years where you know i went from
• 1:19:44
  this act of addiction now into recovery uh it's
• 1:19:49
  been it's been a rocky it's been a rocky road
• 1:19:51
  but um i know that she stood by my side this
• 1:19:56
  long and um i hope and anticipate that she will
• 1:20:00
  continue to stand by my side and you know in
• 1:20:03
  due time whether it be years from now decades
• 1:20:07
  from now like we will you know make peace with
• 1:20:10
  with the damage that i that i did but i don't
• 1:20:13
  think that's going to happen anytime soon just
• 1:20:14
  given the magnitude of of you know what i caused
• 1:20:18
  as a gambler we won everything yesterday but
• 1:20:22
  recovery is all about everything takes time everything
• 1:20:25
  worth having takes time speaking of support how
• 1:20:28
  important was that support that your your mom
• 1:20:30
  and dad got when you called your dad at 6 a .m
• 1:20:32
  that morning then you spent the weekend with
• 1:20:34
  your family your dad even found the Right Choice
• 1:20:36
  Recovery center for you not everyone's so lucky
• 1:20:39
  to have such amazing support supportive parents
• 1:20:42
  how important was that support to you and do
• 1:20:45
  you know how lucky you are to have those parents
• 1:20:46
  yes and yes i mean my parents saved my life that
• 1:20:51
  weekend my dad did you know and uh they've been
• 1:20:55
  so unbelievably supportive through my recovery
• 1:20:59
  and through everything that i've built with collectors
• 1:21:02
  md over the last year and a half My mom's my
• 1:21:05
  biggest cheerleader. My dad's my best friend
• 1:21:08
  and advisor on all things. He's the second person
• 1:21:12
  I call after my wife, after something good happens.
• 1:21:16
  So yeah, I am eternally grateful to them for
• 1:21:20
  their love, their undivided love, support, guidance,
• 1:21:24
  patience. And yeah, 100%. I know how lucky I
• 1:21:31
  am to have them. I like to finish with a positive.
• 1:21:34
  how has your life improved since stopping gambling
• 1:21:36
  yeah i mean look today is very different right
• 1:21:40
  like i think recoveries is still something again
• 1:21:45
  that i'm actively working on Collectors MD has
• 1:21:47
  grown way beyond what i imagined when i first
• 1:21:49
  started right like i told myself when i started
• 1:21:53
  like if i could just help one other person it's
• 1:21:55
  a success like we now have peer support meetings
• 1:22:00
  thriving community educational resources partnerships
• 1:22:04
  across both the collectibles industry and treatment
• 1:22:07
  space you know growing effort around prevention
• 1:22:10
  and healthier engagement with collecting and
• 1:22:13
  then there's Right Choice Recovery right which
• 1:22:15
  is probably one of the most meaningful parts
• 1:22:16
  for me personally like i entered Right Choice
• 1:22:19
  as a client when i was struggling badly and needed
• 1:22:21
  help and now i work there part -time and help
• 1:22:24
  you know uh help them grow i like group meetings
• 1:22:27
  there From September through June, I've since
• 1:22:30
  entered into a new role where I'm helping them
• 1:22:33
  with business development. So, you know, like
• 1:22:36
  I really need to make sure that I acknowledge
• 1:22:39
  that. Right. Because like working there, there
• 1:22:41
  were times where, you know, I'd be sitting in
• 1:22:43
  those rooms listening to someone describe something
• 1:22:46
  I could have said word for word a few years ago.
• 1:22:48
  And now I'm able to tell my tell them that like
• 1:22:51
  I understand because I really do. Right. Like
• 1:22:54
  that. All of that doesn't erase anything I did.
• 1:22:57
  It doesn't erase the financial consequences of
• 1:23:00
  what I put my wife and my family through. But
• 1:23:03
  it does allow me to take something that caused
• 1:23:05
  an enormous amount of pain and use the experience
• 1:23:07
  in a way that might help somebody else. And that
• 1:23:10
  has become a huge part of recovery for me. And
• 1:23:13
  that's the best part of life now for me. That's
• 1:23:17
  my dopamine high. That's my adrenaline rush.
• 1:23:23
  truly enjoy helping other people and i feel like
• 1:23:26
  it's my calling and it's what i was born to do
• 1:23:28
  so anyone who let alone has been listening intently
• 1:23:32
  to our conversation or has even just had it on
• 1:23:34
  in the background should already know the answer
• 1:23:36
  to this question however every every one of my
• 1:23:39
  guests get the gets the first same question and
• 1:23:41
  the first final question so you're still getting
• 1:23:43
  it Alyx do you regret your addiction i regret
• 1:23:48
  the damage it caused I regret what my wife went
• 1:23:52
  through. I regret the lies. I regret the financial
• 1:23:54
  consequences, the stress it created for my family,
• 1:23:58
  the amount of my life where I wasn't really present
• 1:24:03
  because my mind was just completely consumed
• 1:24:05
  by gambling or chasing something. At the same
• 1:24:09
  time, I try not to spend too much energy wishing
• 1:24:12
  I could somehow erase that entire part of my
• 1:24:15
  life because I can't. Ultimately, like i said
• 1:24:20
  before i don't necessarily believe i do believe
• 1:24:23
  that everything does happen for a reason and
• 1:24:25
  sometimes bad things happen because we make bad
• 1:24:28
  decisions and uh addiction caused me to make
• 1:24:31
  plenty of them um but ultimately like what i
• 1:24:34
  what i believe is that you know we we uh do have
• 1:24:39
  control over you know um what happens afterwards
• 1:24:43
  and if it wasn't for what happened prior, I wouldn't
• 1:24:46
  have been in the position I am today to control
• 1:24:50
  my future. And so, yeah, I mean, ultimately,
• 1:24:54
  you know, the, the answer is no, I don't have
• 1:24:57
  any regrets. I can't change those years, but
• 1:25:00
  I can now choose whether they, you know, remain
• 1:25:02
  nothing but destruction or whether some part
• 1:25:06
  of that experience is eventually, you know, something
• 1:25:09
  that can serve, you know, for, for a greater
• 1:25:12
  good. And so that's what I try to do now. Yes.
• 1:25:15
  I knew that was coming, and so did everyone watching
• 1:25:17
  along. Alyx, thank you so much, mate. Thank you
• 1:25:21
  so much, Danny. This was fantastic. Appreciate
• 1:25:23
  you. Guys, that was awesome, wasn't it? That
• 1:25:25
  was amazing. We all knew that no was coming at
• 1:25:27
  the end, didn't we? A mutual friend of mine and
• 1:25:30
  Alyx's, Luis Ruggiero from Nothing's Off the
• 1:25:32
  Table, we've actually both been on his podcast.
• 1:25:35
  He's had some amazing guests on there, including
• 1:25:37
  us two. However, not everyone has heard his story.
• 1:25:40
  The video on the screen right now is when I sat
• 1:25:42
  down with him and discussed his story and found
• 1:25:44
  out his gambling addiction. the passion that
• 1:25:46
  he's now got for his podcast click that video
• 1:25:48
  and i will see you over there