Latest / Making Medicine / Maria Thacker Goethe on Biotech Growth, Clinical Trials & US Competitiveness

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Maria Thacker Goethe on Biotech Growth, Clinical Trials & US Competitiveness · Making Medicine

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Speaker 1: At Making Medicine. We're reporting on the headlines, not making
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Speaker 1: medical recommendations. For personal health questions, always ask your doctor.
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Speaker 1: Nothing in this episode constitutes investment, financial, or legal advice.
0:13
Speaker 1: Consult your own advisors before making decisions.
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Speaker 2: If we're going to push to do everything domestically, we
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Speaker 2: have to build that infrastructure people as well as places.
0:23
Speaker 2: We need people that know how to weld and do
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Speaker 2: piping and work is a type of plumber in some
0:30
Speaker 2: of these regulated spaces. I have a company that literally
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Speaker 2: could not find the right type of welder. You can
0:35
Speaker 2: build all the buildings you want, but if you don't
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Speaker 2: have the right talent to actually turn them on and
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Speaker 2: run them, it's all for not.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Making Medicine podcast, where science, policy
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Speaker 1: and innovation meet. Today we're joined by Maria Thacker Goth.
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Speaker 1: She's the President and CEO of Georgia Life Sciences. It's
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Speaker 1: the state's largest and most influenced life sciences organization. Maria
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Speaker 1: has spent the last two decades connecting innovative Georgia companies
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Speaker 1: with policymakers, partners, funders, you name it to make sure
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Speaker 1: that breakthrough sciences gets developed in Georgia and reaches patients
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Speaker 1: in Georgia. Under her leadership, the state's life science industry
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Speaker 1: has seen dramatic growth, and her work to build a
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Speaker 1: sustainable and inclusive workforce pipeline has become a model nationally.
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Speaker 1: It's all things that we'll talk about. So let's get
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Speaker 1: into the show before we get into our conversation with Maria,
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Speaker 1: and this will certainly be something we touch on with her.
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Speaker 1: We want to start with a piece of news that
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Speaker 1: landed just last week. The Department of Health and Human
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Speaker 1: Services rolled out something called Operation Trial Blazer. It's a
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Speaker 1: department wide roadmap including the FDA and ih NCI, NKATZ,
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Speaker 1: and r pH, all organizations that are critical to drug
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Speaker 1: discovery and development, and the initiative is aimed at solving
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Speaker 1: one problem too much earth early clinical research has moved offshore,
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Speaker 1: and we want it back here in the United States.
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Speaker 1: The announcement comes at a moment where Congress and the
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Speaker 1: administration are trying to tackle how to most effectively manage
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Speaker 1: and maintain US biotech leadership in the context of an
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Speaker 1: increasingly globally competitive environment. The document released by HHS for
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Speaker 1: Operation Trial Blazer lays out some pretty compelling facts in
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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, China's global share of phase one trials
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Speaker 1: surpass the US, and in twenty twenty four the total
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Speaker 1: number of clinical trials surpassed the US and represented almost
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Speaker 1: forty percent of global trials. It also calls out Australia,
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Speaker 1: a much friendlier country than China from an economic adversary standpoint,
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Speaker 1: that has had enormous success recruiting early stage trials. So
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Speaker 1: the question being answered is how do we bring this
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Speaker 1: back home? And a big reason is something that's become
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Speaker 1: very clear based on our recent surveys. Cost and efficiency
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Speaker 1: are driving US biotech and drug manufacturers to look overseas.
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Speaker 1: Time is a big piece. The average weight between a
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Speaker 1: pre I and D meeting request and an actual I
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Speaker 1: in D submission in the United States is three hundred
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Speaker 1: and eighty days. Other countries like China simply get there faster.
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Speaker 1: From the directly from the proposal quote too often, the
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Speaker 1: US pathway can be measured in years, while other countries
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Speaker 1: pathways are measured in months. So what's actually in the proposal.
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Speaker 1: The FDA is standing up an expedited I in D pilot,
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Speaker 1: building a network of qualified research institutions, and a real
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Speaker 1: time rolling review platform targeting a six to twelve month
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Speaker 1: cut in early trial timelines. There's also draft guidance saying
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Speaker 1: then the right cases, a single high quality trial with
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Speaker 1: confirmatory evidence can support approval. These are real concrete steps
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Speaker 1: toward modernization and something Incubate and the Making Medicine podcast
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Speaker 1: have been talking about for the last year. The conversation
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Speaker 1: in Washington and in the ecosystems that follow it talk
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Speaker 1: about staying ahead of China and keep circling back to
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Speaker 1: sometimes troublesome ideas, an idea like restricting the flow of
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Speaker 1: capital and putting an outbound investment limits, ideas about can
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Speaker 1: we wall China off? But proposals like Operation Trialblazer, in
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Speaker 1: our view, are the better model. We're not going to
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Speaker 1: win this race by stopping American investors from chasing the
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Speaker 1: best operational efficiency. The way we keep the US the
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Speaker 1: global leader is by making us faster, more attractive, and
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Speaker 1: the best place on earth to develop that science. That's
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Speaker 1: where we want the administration in Congress to put this energy,
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Speaker 1: build a better ecosystem, Investment will follow and stay here.
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Speaker 1: This is something we're certainly going to talk about with Maria,
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Speaker 1: and it also is great to see the Trump administration
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Speaker 1: laying out concrete steps that will meaningfully make the US
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Speaker 1: more competitive. And it happens right at the same time
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Speaker 1: that members of Congress like Jake Auchincloss out of Massachusetts
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Speaker 1: are calling for their own proposals, putting out legislation and
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Speaker 1: ideas that would similarly codify reforms like this. So we
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Speaker 1: all seem to be rowing in the right direction, and
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Speaker 1: hopefully this will take the conversation to a more productive place. Maria,
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show.
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Speaker 3: Hey, good morning, and thanks for having me. I'm really
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Speaker 3: excited to be here.
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Speaker 1: Well, we appreciate you taking time from Bio Recovery Week,
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Speaker 1: where I think many of our peers are kicking up
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Speaker 1: their feet after a busy week in San Diego, and
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Speaker 1: that's that's where I wanted to start, maybe top lines.
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Speaker 1: What did you think of San Diego? What stood out
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Speaker 1: to you.
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Speaker 2: Besides the gorgeous weather all week? It was you know,
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Speaker 2: it's what BIO always is.
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Speaker 3: I was.
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Speaker 2: This is my eighteenth or nineteenth BIO convention, so wow,
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Speaker 2: it's still as exciting than ever.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I definitely feel a lot older than I
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Speaker 3: did twenty years ago.
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Speaker 2: When I realized what number I was that, but you know,
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Speaker 2: I always really just reinforces how interconnected the global life
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Speaker 2: sciences environment is and just really how we are as you.
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Speaker 3: Know, society.
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Speaker 2: But conversations for me really tended to be broader than
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Speaker 2: anyone issue one issue, and I know we'll get into
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Speaker 2: the China discussion later, which is definitely something that was
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Speaker 2: a hot topic, but there was a clear focus on
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Speaker 2: US competitiveness and how we work to strengthen domestic research
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Speaker 2: and manufacturing, clinical development, workforce capacity without creating unnecessary barriers
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Speaker 2: to collaboration or investment, and also continue to maintain the
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Speaker 2: predictability that we need as an industry. From a Georgia perspective,
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Speaker 2: I'd say that conversation really matters because we're really seeing
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Speaker 2: companies make real investments in manufacturing and research and innovation
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Speaker 2: in our state. I think that everybody knows that UCB
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Speaker 2: announced their US headquarters have been in Atlanta for forever,
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Speaker 2: but they've announced their domestic manufacturing is going to scale
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Speaker 2: in North Atlanta and Gwinnett County, and so this is
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Speaker 2: really critical for us. That conversation around you as competitiveness
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Speaker 2: and the question is how we make sure the policy
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Speaker 2: environment is really helping those companies grow higher as they
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Speaker 2: choose to reach our manufacturing domestically. So you know, cautious
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Speaker 2: optimism excuse me, around efforts to bring more predictability and
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Speaker 2: modernization to clinical development, less siloing as well in that space,
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Speaker 2: and finding ways to be more collaborative across the system,
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Speaker 2: and then obviously in that policy realm as well. Companies
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Speaker 2: needing a regulatory system that is rigorous, science based, but
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Speaker 2: also reliable and predictable, and we need it to continue
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Speaker 2: to modernize so it's responsive enough to keep up with
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Speaker 2: how fast innovation is moving, especially in this world of
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Speaker 2: AI and machine learning. So balance is essential if the
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Speaker 2: US really wants to remain the best place in the
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Speaker 2: world to develop a manufacture and innovator around medicine. So
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Speaker 2: lots of themes, but that strong, interconnected world of policy
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Speaker 2: and decisions happening on the hill and how it's impacting
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Speaker 2: every state.
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Speaker 1: Well, and I think you can relate to this just
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Speaker 1: the sheer demand for policy education and conversation. It's transformative
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Speaker 1: at these conferences. You go to BIO five years ago,
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Speaker 1: we used to we do this breakfast at JP Morgan
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Speaker 1: every year. Five years ago, it was deal flow capital
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Speaker 1: all of that. Now policy has this permanent seat of
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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this, whether it's China or
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Speaker 1: drug pricing or whatever. So I feel like you and
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Speaker 1: I and some others in the trade association space, this
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Speaker 1: is really lifting up some of the work we're doing.
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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people slept on advocacy for
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Speaker 1: ten years and now they're seeing Wait a second, this
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Speaker 1: is critically important. Not to age your nineteen visits to buyos.
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Speaker 1: All right, you must have gotten like five times in
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Speaker 1: one year or something. But over the course of that time,
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Speaker 1: something that has changed is I think Georgia's reputation and
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Speaker 1: I think when when people talk about life science as
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Speaker 1: hubs around the country, they may not always remember to
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Speaker 1: put even the Southeastern United States up there, let alone Georgia.
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Speaker 1: What transformations have you seen and how did they come
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Speaker 1: about over the last two decades while you've while you've
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Speaker 1: been in leadership. How is it that Georgia fought its
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Speaker 1: way to being such an instrumental state.
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think it really just comes down
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Speaker 2: to collaboration. We're very collaborative in the region in the Southeast.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's incredible how the state has seized
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Speaker 1: on what it does have, what it's good at, and
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Speaker 1: when we speak to governors or economic development officials, it's
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Speaker 1: look at what you've got and see where it intersects
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Speaker 1: with biotech or life sciences or farm or medtech. Don't
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Speaker 1: reinvent the wheel. Just take what you've got and make
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Speaker 1: it hustle, hospitable to the environment. And this is a moment,
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Speaker 1: This is a transformative moment where we'll see how much
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Speaker 1: stuff gets reshored and on short which brings me to
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Speaker 1: another sort of note. We sort of felt at Bio
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Speaker 1: amid all this conversation about China, it almost felt like
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Speaker 1: the Chinese presence was dialed back at least on the
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Speaker 1: on the floor show, and we just sort of had
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Speaker 1: this sense. Did you pick up on that? And how
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Speaker 1: do you think and your members think about this broader
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Speaker 1: conversation of China, friend, enemy, frenemy, partner, what have you?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to actually follow up my last answer
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Speaker 2: and then I'll pivot to China though, because I didn't
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Speaker 2: actually selfishly also plug some unique capacity we do.
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Speaker 3: This is your chance.
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Speaker 1: Sorry, So Georgia put the peach up on the episode.
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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we do have some great peaches.
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Speaker 2: But you know this the other piece outside of you know,
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Speaker 2: we're working and building that life sciences ecosystem and it's
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Speaker 2: not just attracting companies we're focusing on, but it's also
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Speaker 2: be strengthening talent, and we have some amazing universities that
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Speaker 2: are very collaborative. Our state continues to invest in our
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Speaker 2: core facilities and Georgia Research Alliance to help boost that
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Speaker 2: early stage innovation. So you know, we're continuing to support
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Speaker 2: both ends of the life science's ecosystem. And then we're
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Speaker 2: seeing more and more investment into workforce development, whether it's
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Speaker 2: the program we run with a Department of Education to
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Speaker 2: train life to train teachers and how to teach life
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Speaker 2: sciences and biotech in the classroom, or apprenticeship efforts like
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Speaker 2: we've seen one by an industrial biotech company called Mannis
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Speaker 2: out in Augusta, Georgia, and they just want a biomade grant.
11:47
Speaker 2: And you know, we're working with a Nimble on a
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Speaker 2: variety of projects. There's a lot of upscilling and talent
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Speaker 2: and work at the technical level that George is really
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Speaker 2: putting a lot of effort into to make pathways visible
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Speaker 2: and practical and creating more awareness of the industry, which
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Speaker 2: I can dive into later. I think is a is
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Speaker 2: a real challenge the industry has.
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Speaker 3: But when you.
12:05
Speaker 2: Get outside of the deep the big markets in the
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Speaker 2: you know, the Northeast and the West Coast.
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Speaker 1: One of the questions we get, especially from states where
12:15
Speaker 1: they're there may be a couple are ones and they
12:18
Speaker 1: figured out tech transfer, and they even have a couple entrepreneurs,
12:21
Speaker 1: but then the company's got to move. And I'd say
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Speaker 1: this conversation is as relevant in Georgia as it is
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Speaker 1: in Germany. And this is something the Germans struggle with
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Speaker 1: is Okay, we have a budding biotech, but the moment
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Speaker 1: they get serious, they got to go to Boston or
12:35
Speaker 1: they've got to go somewhere else. You laid out, I
12:37
Speaker 1: feel like the two problems and so I if I
12:40
Speaker 1: want to make sure I'm getting this right that mid
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Speaker 1: level executive talent, how do you run a burgeoning enterprise?
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Speaker 1: And two, how do you access the capital in the
12:54
Speaker 1: tens and hundreds of millions of dollars that enable you?
12:57
Speaker 1: Do you feel those are the two missing pieces? Is
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Speaker 1: and that's why people have to pick up and leave
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Speaker 1: and go to Kendall Square or go to the Bay Area.
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Speaker 2: I think those are two of i'd say three big reasons.
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Speaker 2: I'd also add infrastructure into that as well. There is
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Speaker 2: a physical challenge. I mean, I probably get a call
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Speaker 2: from partners at Georgia Tech or an independent company asking
13:22
Speaker 2: for clean room space on a monthly basis, if not
13:26
Speaker 2: twice monthly, or a small lab space. I have deep
13:31
Speaker 2: relationships of real estate companies and brokers now because I'm
13:34
Speaker 2: just trying to find out who has available space. Because
13:36
Speaker 2: of how much we're innovating in our universities. You know,
13:40
Speaker 2: an Emory and Georgia Tech and Georgia State are all
13:42
Speaker 2: within fifteen minutes of each other.
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Speaker 3: That's three hour ones right there.
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Speaker 2: Not to mention the research happening at Morehouse School of Medicine, absolutely,
13:49
Speaker 2: you know. So those are four universities within fifteen minutes
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Speaker 2: of each other, all in one place, doing amazing research,
13:56
Speaker 2: creating a masion talent and all that. But yeah, so
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Speaker 2: I think the mid level and senior executive talent continues
14:01
Speaker 2: to be an issue.
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Speaker 3: Sure COVID on.
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Speaker 2: This hybrid world we live in, has given us.
14:06
Speaker 3: Permission to.
14:09
Speaker 2: Have a certain level talent be based elsewhere. I have
14:13
Speaker 2: many CEOs that are based in New York or Boston,
14:16
Speaker 2: or Jersey or California, but they're in a lot of
14:21
Speaker 2: those executives that oftentimes are recruited in by a board,
14:25
Speaker 2: they stay in those places and they do want to
14:27
Speaker 2: keep their teams are in Atlanta or in ath in Georgia,
14:31
Speaker 2: and they want to keep that talent in those innovators together,
14:35
Speaker 2: and they know a lot of people once they do
14:37
Speaker 2: land in the South. With all due respect to my
14:39
Speaker 2: Northeast friends, we don't have the snow that you guys
14:41
Speaker 2: have to deal with, so we speak to people do
14:45
Speaker 2: tend to like our environment quite a bit once they
14:47
Speaker 2: get down here. So it's a challenge and we can
14:52
Speaker 2: continue to land in that hybrid space, but getting recruiting
14:56
Speaker 2: that talent down here when you don't have the density
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Speaker 2: of d history and they see, okay, I have this
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Speaker 2: one opportunity, but once that, you know, pans out, once
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Speaker 2: I get through that whatever three to five seven years
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Speaker 2: with that company, I'm going to have to move again
15:09
Speaker 2: because there's nowhere for me to go.
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Speaker 3: Because the industry.
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Speaker 2: Is a dense that continues to be a challenge, and
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Speaker 2: I think that's a challenge for not just the Southeast,
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Speaker 2: but I would say many states in any state that
15:19
Speaker 2: just has a growing sector but it isn't huge either.
15:22
Speaker 2: That could be the Midwest, it be a lot of
15:24
Speaker 2: different places, So that's a challenge. I don't know what
15:27
Speaker 2: the perfect solution is. I do believe finding ways to
15:34
Speaker 2: incentivize people to up and move from the regions outside
15:38
Speaker 2: of our lovely weather and an airport that can get
15:41
Speaker 2: you to Boston over thirty something times a day is
15:44
Speaker 2: fine is the reason to do that.
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Speaker 3: But we need to continue to tell the.
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Speaker 2: Story and that will come down to continued growth of
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Speaker 2: the sector, economic development wins in partnership with our economic
15:54
Speaker 2: development partners and things like that.
15:56
Speaker 3: So there's that. So talent is always a challenge.
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Speaker 2: Infrastruction ructure we don't have that scale up manufacturing and
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Speaker 2: even community to help support the small companies as they scale.
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Speaker 2: There's some great projects, you know that we see at
16:13
Speaker 2: some of our universities. Georgia Tech just launched a med
16:16
Speaker 2: tech initiative, for example, but it's those programs.
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Speaker 3: Going to be very isolated within the university.
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Speaker 2: So really finding that community, that culture to help outside
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Speaker 2: of an academic setting that helps companies thrive and grow.
16:30
Speaker 2: It continues to be a challenge, but we're moving in
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Speaker 2: the right direction. UGAS has some really innovative stuff and
16:36
Speaker 2: collaboration in the Athens area with invest Athens, with the
16:40
Speaker 2: big companies that they're like Bi Meisner's building a seven
16:43
Speaker 2: building facility up there and j and Ja to really
16:48
Speaker 2: have those public and private relationships in order to help
16:52
Speaker 2: build an ecosystem in that one area of Georgia, to
16:55
Speaker 2: help companies thrive and stay and remain in Georgia in
16:58
Speaker 2: that Athens region.
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Speaker 3: And it's working, it's paying off.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I have companies that are looking to move
17:02
Speaker 2: into Georgia and they don't want to be in Atlanta.
17:04
Speaker 2: They're saying, I want to be in Athens because they
17:06
Speaker 2: have that type of community in that culture. Now that's
17:09
Speaker 2: Athens is much smaller in Atlanta, so they have the
17:11
Speaker 2: capability of doing that. But I think, you know, workforce
17:14
Speaker 2: and talent at that mid to level is moving in
17:18
Speaker 2: the right direction and it's really quicker than it used
17:20
Speaker 2: to be, but it continues to be a challenge for everybody.
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Speaker 1: Do you think you know one of the things we're
17:27
Speaker 1: trying to juxtapose for the administration though, is you have
17:31
Speaker 1: laid out already in five minutes of talking these incredible
17:35
Speaker 1: investments being made and these large iconic manufacturers choosing Georgia,
17:41
Speaker 1: which is exciting. And these aren't small investments. These are
17:45
Speaker 1: now million billion dollar facilities. You know, we're trying to
17:52
Speaker 1: show I think the administration in Congress that things are
17:56
Speaker 1: trending where you want to go on shoring investment in
17:59
Speaker 1: the US job creation and not just in the states
18:02
Speaker 1: that are historically dominant in pharmaceutical manufacturing, but newer places
18:07
Speaker 1: or going deeper in places like Georgia. But on the
18:11
Speaker 1: content on the flip side of that is, you know,
18:13
Speaker 1: the cudgel of something like MFN or attacks on sort
18:17
Speaker 1: of the company's revenues. Do you see a linkage between
18:22
Speaker 1: if these companies are sort of gutted by European style
18:26
Speaker 1: price controls, will they still even have the ability to
18:29
Speaker 1: follow through on these big announcements. Is that something you
18:31
Speaker 1: worry about.
18:32
Speaker 2: Pricing is a challenge, is a complicated issue, and I
18:37
Speaker 2: you know, we understand where the administration's coming from, and
18:41
Speaker 2: we want patients to have the medicines they need and
18:46
Speaker 2: at affordable price. That is very clear. This is everything
18:50
Speaker 2: we do is about to leave as an old line
18:53
Speaker 2: helping heal, fuel and feed the world. And I should
18:56
Speaker 2: be very clear we do represent quite a bit on
18:59
Speaker 2: the ag bio in industry biotech space as well, so
19:01
Speaker 2: I need to mention that. But in the end, it
19:03
Speaker 2: is how do we keep medicine affordable for patients? And
19:07
Speaker 2: that's not optional, and that's not something that this industry
19:11
Speaker 2: wants to make a challenge. And it's as you know,
19:13
Speaker 2: it's a very complicate, complex issue. There's lots of players
19:17
Speaker 2: that impact pricing, whether our friends and hospital systems and
19:22
Speaker 2: then masures and of course you know our piece of it.
19:25
Speaker 2: But and it is I think it's completely appropriate. The
19:28
Speaker 2: policy makers are looking closely at what a patient pays
19:32
Speaker 2: and how benefit design works, and we're savings might be
19:36
Speaker 2: getting lost across the system. The concern is really with
19:39
Speaker 2: these blunt pricing control policies that like copying and pasting
19:44
Speaker 2: from a smaller European nation is just not doesn't sufficiently
19:49
Speaker 2: account for how medicines are developed. And this gets into
19:51
Speaker 2: the complexity of the industry we run. People are investing
19:56
Speaker 2: second mortgaging their house to get that innovation, you know,
19:59
Speaker 2: just us wright to actually become a company and drug
20:03
Speaker 2: development is highly high risk and capital intensive and takes years,
20:09
Speaker 2: if not decades before the companies actually or to that
20:13
Speaker 2: point that they're commercialized in making money, and it could take.
20:16
Speaker 3: Over a decade just to know if a therapy will succeed.
20:18
Speaker 2: So when policy reduces the expected return too early or
20:23
Speaker 2: creates uncertainty around the rules, it can change what programs
20:28
Speaker 2: investors and companies are willing to pursue. So for our
20:31
Speaker 2: smaller biotech companies a rare disease market which is very
20:34
Speaker 2: close to my heart, and areas where science is still emerging,
20:37
Speaker 2: we really have to be mindful of these policies and
20:41
Speaker 2: think about the whole system and how a drug actually
20:42
Speaker 2: comes to market. So I mentioned Geovacs and why that
20:45
Speaker 2: matters is a great example, and all of my small
20:47
Speaker 2: market friends across the country probably feel the same way.
20:52
Speaker 3: We're growing not.
20:53
Speaker 2: As a market for medicines, but as a place for
20:55
Speaker 2: companies and research develop manufacture, tests, support creed job and
21:00
Speaker 2: we want companies to keep investing here and hiring here
21:03
Speaker 2: and partnering. A policy environment that makes it harder to
21:07
Speaker 2: finance or scale can have consequences for that entire ecosystem.
21:12
Speaker 2: It can be you know, it can impact the you know,
21:15
Speaker 2: young people getting their first jobs out of school, to
21:19
Speaker 2: the investors even wanting to put a dollar into a
21:21
Speaker 2: good innovation. So and that's just going to end up
21:24
Speaker 2: with companies picking up and moving to other markets. I
21:27
Speaker 2: you know, over the last year, I've had quite a
21:29
Speaker 2: few companies, you know, do you know anyone I can
21:31
Speaker 2: talk to? They'd ask And I just want to understand
21:33
Speaker 2: how to do business in the EU as I get
21:35
Speaker 2: through this wind and see where everything plays out, and
21:37
Speaker 2: I have a bit more predictability in the as to
21:40
Speaker 2: where things are going to be here in the States.
21:41
Speaker 2: So I don't think the choice is affordability versus innovation,
21:45
Speaker 2: because we need both.
21:46
Speaker 3: Whish.
21:47
Speaker 1: Something that dropped while bio was going on last week
21:50
Speaker 1: is this great effort out of HHS Operation Trial Blazer,
21:56
Speaker 1: which it's going to be really hard not to say,
21:58
Speaker 1: Trail Blazer. Do these reform seem right to you? Cut
22:01
Speaker 1: down on I in d times, cut down on basic
22:03
Speaker 1: every cut the fat out of the system, the reviews
22:06
Speaker 1: that no longer make sense. It really seems like HHS
22:10
Speaker 1: was listening and that this Operation Trial Blazer can open
22:14
Speaker 1: the door to some good reforms is that how you
22:17
Speaker 1: read it.
22:17
Speaker 2: There's policy on paper and then when it comes into practice,
22:21
Speaker 2: we'll see how rolls out.
22:22
Speaker 3: But I think we're all cautiously optimistic. It's the right
22:27
Speaker 3: is the right step forward.
22:28
Speaker 1: How do you think about China broadly, sitting in Georgia
22:32
Speaker 1: having this budding ecosystem, having all the key players there.
22:37
Speaker 1: You know you're a beneficiary of on shoring efforts, to
22:41
Speaker 1: be sure, very much, but also you have biotechs that
22:46
Speaker 1: probably heavily rely on faster, cheaper, and not just China.
22:51
Speaker 1: Maybe you have folks using Australia or looking elsewhere. How
22:54
Speaker 1: do you reconcile all that in your mind?
22:57
Speaker 3: It's different every day.
22:58
Speaker 2: But the concern most here I hear most consistently. It's
23:02
Speaker 2: not that companies opposed thoughtful national security protictions.
23:06
Speaker 3: Obviously we want good national security.
23:10
Speaker 2: It's that the policy really needs to be targeted and
23:13
Speaker 2: clear and workable. We are in a global economy and
23:19
Speaker 2: we innovate globally too. It may be born out of
23:22
Speaker 2: the US, but getting a product market, it's just not
23:26
Speaker 2: everything can be done here the way we would like,
23:29
Speaker 2: you know, the way the administration want is articulating. They'd
23:33
Speaker 2: like it the broad and certainty that we have right
23:36
Speaker 2: now around China can sol partnership's capital formation and the
23:39
Speaker 2: ability for merging companies to globally compete. The reality is
23:43
Speaker 2: these small companies cannot innovate and scale in our market
23:50
Speaker 2: due to cost or whatever. It might be a labor
23:53
Speaker 2: and they need to look elsewhere. And China has made
23:57
Speaker 2: biotechnology a national priority. They were already moving, as the
24:03
Speaker 2: NSCB pointed out at a clip a year ago when
24:07
Speaker 2: their report came out, and.
24:08
Speaker 3: Then we just had an update. A lot of the
24:10
Speaker 3: affiliates did.
24:11
Speaker 2: Partners did a week or two a couple of weeks
24:13
Speaker 2: ago with NSSEB, and we're seeing even more they're doubling
24:18
Speaker 2: down on biotech.
24:19
Speaker 3: So the goal should be here to protect.
24:22
Speaker 2: The US leadership but still allowing innovation ecosystem to function.
24:26
Speaker 2: And as we saw last spring in early summer, we
24:30
Speaker 2: saw a lot of that shutdown and I had small
24:32
Speaker 2: companies saying, I can't my trials taking place, or I
24:36
Speaker 2: have to get this piece of the supply chain that
24:39
Speaker 2: comes out of China. I can't just suddenly get it
24:41
Speaker 2: somewhere else. So we need to invest in our own capabilities,
24:46
Speaker 2: whether that's workforce, manufacturing based research, and clinical infrastructures. We've
24:49
Speaker 2: talked about it.
24:52
Speaker 3: And not just rely on restrictions.
24:55
Speaker 2: So if we're going to push to do everything domestically,
24:59
Speaker 2: we have to build that infrastructure people as well as places,
25:03
Speaker 2: and not to suddenly say no, you can't do that anymore,
25:06
Speaker 2: because it's a problem. I've got companies that in innovations
25:10
Speaker 2: that had to stop clinical trials last year because they had,
25:14
Speaker 2: you know, a partner that worked out of China twenty
25:19
Speaker 2: years ago. It hadn't had any connections since. So it's
25:21
Speaker 2: been a really complicated issue. I think we saw last
25:25
Speaker 2: week at Bio a smaller it seemed like a smaller
25:28
Speaker 2: Chinese contingent at the space. I can't say whether that
25:32
Speaker 2: was intentional on their end or you know, just strategically
25:37
Speaker 2: keeping downplay, but they're there. I mean, the reality is
25:40
Speaker 2: they're they're part of this global life science's ecosystem, and
25:44
Speaker 2: they're not going anywhere because that they are investing in
25:47
Speaker 2: a way that is making.
25:51
Speaker 3: Them a part of the conversation whether we like it
25:54
Speaker 3: or not.
25:54
Speaker 1: You've been very generous with your time, but I would
25:56
Speaker 1: be remiss not to call out some of the leadership
25:59
Speaker 1: you've done around people, both on a practical side as
26:03
Speaker 1: well as a policy side. Can you talk a little
26:05
Speaker 1: bit about Congressman Rich McCormick out of Georgia working with
26:11
Speaker 1: some folks on a slew of workforce priorities in the
26:15
Speaker 1: biotech space. We know Georgia Life Sciences plays a driving
26:18
Speaker 1: role there. What do you see as the successful goals
26:24
Speaker 1: of those efforts? And also pretty sure you might be
26:29
Speaker 1: upgrading some office space and getting into the workforce game yourself.
26:33
Speaker 1: So maybe if you can speak a little bit.
26:35
Speaker 2: To that, big shout out to Congressman Rich McCormick's office.
26:38
Speaker 2: And he represents a region that is one of our
26:40
Speaker 2: densest biotech areas in the Metro Atlanta and Georgia space.
26:46
Speaker 2: So he has really been thoughtful in a leader an effort,
26:49
Speaker 2: obviously nationally in his seat as a Congressman, but also
26:52
Speaker 2: for the state of Georgia, simply by recognizing that workforce
26:55
Speaker 2: is a strategic issue and not simply an education issue.
27:01
Speaker 2: The act is the Biotech Workforce Alignment Act. I believe
27:05
Speaker 2: that's right, tell me if i'm And it was introduced
27:07
Speaker 2: in May with Representative Kana and so it really is.
27:12
Speaker 2: I understand what direct NSF to align biotech research priorities
27:15
Speaker 2: with workforce development efforts and strength and education, industry government partnerships,
27:21
Speaker 2: which which is wonderful to see because we always hear
27:24
Speaker 2: public private partnerships and all of that, but sometimes the.
27:29
Speaker 3: Funding doesn't come out with that. How do I put it?
27:33
Speaker 2: With that workforce aspect of it called out as critically
27:37
Speaker 2: as we need it, So it was introduced with a
27:39
Speaker 2: companion bill focused on assessing federal biotech workforce needs, which
27:44
Speaker 2: is really important. So I'll also do a plug for
27:48
Speaker 2: the Life Sciences Workforce Collaborative, which builds off of a coalition.
27:52
Speaker 3: It's been around for over a decade.
27:54
Speaker 2: Myself and some colleagues founded and the early two thousands
27:59
Speaker 2: mintilated thousand, two thousands, and we're really trying to bring
28:04
Speaker 2: community together around workforce and talent needs. And we're getting
28:07
Speaker 2: ready to do our National Life Sciences Workforce Industry Study
28:12
Speaker 2: and we do that every two years, So every two.
28:14
Speaker 3: Years we roll out at BIO.
28:15
Speaker 2: So next year at BIO twenty twenty seven, we'll roll
28:18
Speaker 2: off the latest Workforce Trends Report. It's the only national
28:21
Speaker 2: Workforce Trends document that is created nationally and we work
28:26
Speaker 2: with bio and partners adamegs include medical device in this
28:29
Speaker 2: as well, so that's a critical piece to it. But
28:31
Speaker 2: we're really trying to adapt and take a note from
28:34
Speaker 2: some of the items and priorities the n SCABS put
28:37
Speaker 2: out there in their workforce pillar to incorporate into the
28:40
Speaker 2: questions and surveys. So I will do a shout out
28:42
Speaker 2: to any of your industry partners, Please reach your local
28:46
Speaker 2: affiliated to learn how you can complete the survey so
28:49
Speaker 2: we can get more data for that report.
28:51
Speaker 3: But workforce is critical.
28:53
Speaker 2: We're making major investments into biotech, researcher and d manufacturing.
28:57
Speaker 2: When I say we, I mean industry as well as
28:59
Speaker 2: the US government and working towards national resilience and preparedness,
29:03
Speaker 2: of course, but those investments only translate into growth if
29:08
Speaker 2: we also build the people pipeline students, teachers, technicians, operators,
29:14
Speaker 2: data professionals, regulatory effort experts. I feel like we've had
29:17
Speaker 2: a regulatory app for a decade and we still don't
29:20
Speaker 2: have enough people in that space, and of course experience
29:23
Speaker 2: leadership of particular manufacturing as we've seen all this space,
29:28
Speaker 2: so for Georgia it's especially timely. We've talked about our universities.
29:31
Speaker 2: Our technical college system is outstanding. They're wonderful partner to
29:34
Speaker 2: us and our employers and our healthcare systems. But what
29:38
Speaker 2: we need is more intentional alignment around the skills companies
29:41
Speaker 2: actually need and clear pathways for people to enter and
29:44
Speaker 2: advance the field. So one of the things that we
29:48
Speaker 2: see with our National Workforce trands report continues to be
29:51
Speaker 2: report after report lack of awareness in the general market,
29:55
Speaker 2: and I think this aligns very of the industry.
29:58
Speaker 3: This aligns very well with.
30:01
Speaker 2: Things that the NSCB pointed out around we have to
30:06
Speaker 2: make biotech more, you know, invest part of our culture.
30:09
Speaker 2: So it needs to be a national priority, but it
30:12
Speaker 2: also needs to be culturally a priority. We need students
30:15
Speaker 2: to not say what is biotech or think that they
30:19
Speaker 2: have to get a medical degree and we'll work in
30:22
Speaker 2: a white coat and that's the only pathway.
30:23
Speaker 3: To work in our industry.
30:24
Speaker 2: We need them to understand we need people that can, yes,
30:28
Speaker 2: of course, work in a lab based system or work
30:30
Speaker 2: on a manufacturing floor, but we need people that know
30:31
Speaker 2: how to weld and do you know piping and work
30:36
Speaker 2: is a type of plumber in some of these regulated
30:38
Speaker 2: spaces I have a company that literally could not find
30:41
Speaker 2: the right type of welders and they had to go
30:44
Speaker 2: to the Northeast where it's more culturally you know, embedded
30:47
Speaker 2: into that in the in that region to find the
30:50
Speaker 2: technic account they need. So it's about working with your
30:53
Speaker 2: technical systems and your your your state systems to make
30:59
Speaker 2: sure people or understanding the life sciences is not just
31:02
Speaker 2: like one pillar within a workforce. It kind of touches everything.
31:05
Speaker 2: It's specialized technical skills. It's special like how you do research,
31:09
Speaker 2: it's how you raise money, it's how you grow a business.
31:11
Speaker 2: It hits all these different types of areas, and we
31:14
Speaker 2: really need to find a way to better invest in
31:20
Speaker 2: workforce and talent. You can build all the billings buildings
31:23
Speaker 2: you want, but if you don't have the right talent
31:25
Speaker 2: to actually turn them on and run them, it's all
31:28
Speaker 2: for not so and we have a pipeline we have
31:31
Speaker 2: some time now, so we have these restoring these facilities
31:35
Speaker 2: going up in yes, in Georgia, but in Texas, Alabama's
31:38
Speaker 2: how to win North Carolina of course in other areas.
31:42
Speaker 3: But it will take years to get these online.
31:45
Speaker 2: As you and I know, I have to remind people
31:47
Speaker 2: that don't work in our industry. They're building a site,
31:50
Speaker 2: but actually getting them approved in the FDA turning them
31:52
Speaker 2: on for actually work. We could two years and years
31:54
Speaker 2: away from that, two different things. So we have some
31:57
Speaker 2: time to get this right. And I we are in
32:00
Speaker 2: Georgia here are We're going to be working with our
32:02
Speaker 2: technical college system to help them understand across there. You
32:06
Speaker 2: know what twelve pillars and priorities, Life sciences actually hits like.
32:10
Speaker 3: Eleven out of the twelve.
32:12
Speaker 2: So we can't just send somebody down this one particular
32:15
Speaker 2: technical pathway. We need them to have some sort of
32:17
Speaker 2: interdisciplinary connectivity across all areas in the technical space to
32:21
Speaker 2: meet the talent needs that UCB is going to need,
32:24
Speaker 2: that Meisner is going to need that JAY and JAY
32:27
Speaker 2: as well. So it's a complicated issue, but there are
32:32
Speaker 2: opportunities in Congressman McCormick's legislation.
32:35
Speaker 3: Really recognizes that.
32:37
Speaker 2: And I hope is that as we support and many
32:40
Speaker 2: others across the country support the bill, it helps to
32:43
Speaker 2: connect the federal research investments to real world talents or
32:47
Speaker 2: workforce needs, and it recognizes that industry has to be
32:50
Speaker 2: at the table when education and training programs are being designed.
32:54
Speaker 2: I hope this legislation really recognizes but it does recognize
32:58
Speaker 2: workforce as a strategic issue, not just education. And there's
33:03
Speaker 2: a great story I mean for it. I mean, this industry,
33:06
Speaker 2: highest pain industry, is one of the fast most usually
33:11
Speaker 2: fastest growing, if not the fastest growing industry in a state.
33:14
Speaker 2: And these are wonderful jobs that are also meaningful. They're
33:16
Speaker 2: helping bring therapies to patients. So it's very you know,
33:20
Speaker 2: with all due respect to other industries, you are helping people.
33:24
Speaker 2: So we will, you know, continue to support the Congressman's
33:28
Speaker 2: legislation and other efforts around workforce and talent, and hopefully
33:32
Speaker 2: we'll see more more workforce and talent being prioritized with
33:37
Speaker 2: future bills as well.
33:38
Speaker 3: Well.
33:38
Speaker 1: It's an important part of the conversation, no doubt about that,
33:43
Speaker 1: and I have a feeling it'll be something you talk
33:46
Speaker 1: about at your upcoming summit and as we close, maybe
33:49
Speaker 1: a little teaser. I know it's tough coming off of
33:52
Speaker 1: bio to think beyond the horizon, but not too far away.
33:56
Speaker 1: You're really doing your big convening incubates through to be
34:00
Speaker 1: a part of that and have conversation from the venture
34:03
Speaker 1: perspective tease a little bit for us as we close out.
34:07
Speaker 1: What can people expect out of the summit? Who do
34:09
Speaker 1: you want there? Why should they come?
34:12
Speaker 3: We want industry there.
34:14
Speaker 2: So the Georgia Life Sciences Summit takes place, and yes
34:17
Speaker 2: it's a selfish plug, takes place in August and August
34:21
Speaker 2: twenty six is the main conference day with the reception
34:23
Speaker 2: on the twenty fifth. It's a great opportunity to connect
34:27
Speaker 2: with Georgia innovators. We do have a lot of out
34:30
Speaker 2: of state visitors as well. We're very grateful to our
34:32
Speaker 2: partnership with you all for bringing in an investor to
34:38
Speaker 2: talk about what they are looking for in this particular
34:42
Speaker 2: life science landscape where.
34:45
Speaker 3: We're in.
34:46
Speaker 2: And it's a testament to this conversation today because I
34:49
Speaker 2: think we're going to be tying in policy into how
34:52
Speaker 2: we even pitch, because it is all these things that
34:54
Speaker 2: are happening on the hill are also impacting how investors
34:56
Speaker 2: are making decisions which therefore are going to invest. How
34:59
Speaker 2: companies need to you talk about and tell their story
35:01
Speaker 2: to funders. You know, I really appreciate chatting today about
35:05
Speaker 2: so many issues and I do want to strength and
35:09
Speaker 2: you know, stress that we need to continue the momentum
35:12
Speaker 2: around where we see our small companies that have been
35:16
Speaker 2: engaging on policy efforts. I know this is a little
35:18
Speaker 2: bit of a pivot, but we need to keep the
35:20
Speaker 2: momentum about how policy is so critical to what's happening
35:23
Speaker 2: in labs and early stage innovation at the forefront.
35:28
Speaker 1: Well, it'll be a terrific summit. We will be three
35:31
Speaker 1: thrilled to be there.
35:32
Speaker 3: Maria.
35:33
Speaker 1: Very grateful of the time here. We covered a lot
35:35
Speaker 1: of ground and we'll look forward to seeing you soon.
35:38
Speaker 1: So thanks for taking a little bit of time during
35:40
Speaker 1: bio Recovery week to be on the podcast.
35:42
Speaker 2: No, definitely, I really appreciate it, and thank you so
35:46
Speaker 2: much for the time. And if anyone wants to come
35:48
Speaker 2: down to Atlanta and Georgia, feel free to reach out.
35:51
Speaker 3: We've got a huge network.
35:52
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the partnership we've had with you all
35:55
Speaker 2: and Incubate and thanks for continuing the work you do
35:59
Speaker 2: to up on the hill for us. That with those
36:01
Speaker 2: was the campy and TC on a weekly basis.
36:04
Speaker 1: That wraps up this episode of the Making Medicine podcast.
36:08
Speaker 1: Another huge thank you to Maria for joining us on
36:10
Speaker 1: today's show and giving us some insights to the great
36:13
Speaker 1: things happening in the state of Georgia. Be sure to
36:16
Speaker 1: subscribe on YouTube and follow us on other channels so
36:18
Speaker 1: you don't miss upcoming conversations. Do you have thoughts on
36:22
Speaker 1: anything we discussed today, let us know we might feature
36:25
Speaker 1: your comment in next week's episode. Thanks for listening and
36:29
Speaker 1: as always, keep innovating.