Latest / Everyday Ancestral with James Barry / The Wellness Industry Is Gaslighting People — And They Don’t Even Know It: Dr. Abby Kramer Exposes the Truth About Supplements

Transcript

The Wellness Industry Is Gaslighting People — And They Don’t Even Know It: Dr. Abby Kramer Exposes the Truth About Supplements · Everyday Ancestral with James Barry

0:00
Check out this scenario so you go to Trader Joe's for example and you're like oh look at this supplement
0:08
I was told I was supposed to take vitamin D or vitamin C or iron or you name it and you say like wow
0:16
It's so much cheaper than what I saw when I went to a actual supplement store or practitioner level store and
0:26
And you're like woo I'm saving money, but the reality is
0:30
You're actually getting taken you're actually getting a very low dose. You're getting more filler than actual active ingredient
0:39
And that is the truth because today we are talking about the truth behind
0:46
The supplement industry with Dr. Abby Kramer
0:50
Dr. Abby is someone that you would think well wait. She's a doctor. Why what does she know about formulation and supplements?
0:58
Well, it's because she's actually a co-owner of a supplement company and when they went down that
1:04
rabbit hole of creating really clean transparent
1:08
Supplements they started to learn a lot about the industry and a lot about the hidden ingredients
1:13
Dr. Abby Kramer is a chiropractor and holistic
1:18
Physician practicing in the greater Chicago land area through her own experience with chronic migraines fatigue and
1:26
hormonal imbalances in her 20s and being told repeatedly her symptoms were normal
1:32
She sought out alternative care once she realized her symptoms were simply her body's way of communicating deep physical and emotional imbalances
1:40
True healing curd
1:42
Changing the course of her professional career. She became a doctor inspired to bring that same type of transformation to her patients
1:51
When not working with patients you can find Abby working with the brilliant team at fringe creating innovative high quality wellness products
1:59
She's also creating health and wellness content online through Instagram and her sub stack and recording episodes for her podcast
2:07
Coffee with dogs on days off. She's spending time with her spicy five-year-old. Yes. She's a mom and her husband and her three dogs
2:16
I'm your host James Berry. Please enjoy this every day and sestral episode with Dr. Abby Kramer
2:23
I feel like everyone in the health industry is here for a reason is usually because either
2:30
They got sick or someone they loved got sick. What's your story?
2:34
My story is a couple parts as many people's is it's usually not one thing
2:39
Initially my journey began I got a pretty bad car accident when I was in undergrad
2:45
And got real bad whiplash just really bad neck pain like couldn't turn my head
2:51
I didn't know what a car tractor was. I was not into like health and well
2:56
I mean that wasn't a thing in like the early 2000s anyway
3:00
So I just did the typical thing went to like the student clinic on campus to see someone
3:05
They did the typical thing and gave me pain medication and anti-inflammatories
3:10
When the pain meds ran out my pain came right back right and I was like hmm
3:15
There's got to be a different solution here and
3:18
I grew up a swimmer. I was very into like athletics and sports performance
3:23
I was majoring in exercise sciences
3:25
So I reached out to one of my professors
3:27
And was like hey, I was in this accident. I was horrible neck pain
3:30
Do you know something that could help like a physical therapy?
3:33
You know something like that and he was like oh go see my good friend who's a car tractor in the area
3:39
He'll like fix you right up
3:40
So I went to his office. I never seen a car tractor before. I didn't even really know what they did
3:45
And long story short and one visit. I was like 80% better
3:49
And I was like whoa. Wow. That's interesting. So it really was helpful to me
3:54
I remember I kept seeing this chiropractor throughout the rest of my kind of college education
4:00
Just for like maintenance and recovery and prevention
4:04
And he kept telling me like you need to go to chiropractic school
4:07
Does he take it all the key? Everyone or like that's interesting. No, but I
4:11
I think he just knew because a I was like kind of in the field
4:15
I was studying exercise and movement sciences
4:17
I was very interested in anatomy and biomechanics and like all of those things like I could speak his language
4:23
I was taking all of those courses
4:26
And that's kind of a natural trajectory for a lot of chiropractors
4:29
They kind of come from that world, right?
4:32
And he's like this is like what you should be doing
4:35
But I was like of course very stubborn and was like now. I'm done with school. I'm gonna be a trainer
4:39
Whatever long story short very quickly into personal training
4:43
I realized that wasn't the best fit for me and I actually wanted to be a chiropractor
4:47
So it took me a couple years
4:50
Then come to the same conclusion
4:52
But at the time when I was applying for chiropractic school getting ready to start the program
4:57
I started experiencing chronic migraine headaches
5:00
And this is more what got me really into what I do now which is much more like integrative functional medicine approach
5:07
Like I don't only work with patients on physical conditions. I see a lot of people with
5:12
autoimmune diseases and cut health issues and hormone imbalances and inflammation right all of that stuff
5:18
I was like I am not gonna make it through chiropractic
5:21
School with having all these migraine headaches like it's not gonna be possible
5:25
I have to figure this out and I was taking a couple last minute like prerequisite courses. I needed to start the program
5:32
One of them being biochemistry and my professor at the time was a chiropractor who did a lot of functional medicine work as well with his patients
5:40
And so again, it was one of my professors. I asked him
5:44
Hey, I have these horrible migraines like what is your go-to with patients with migraines from like a supplement
5:49
Die at more like lifestyle perspective and he was basically like go gluten-free and take fever
5:55
Few which is an herb and it works as a preventative so he's like take it every day
6:00
He's like it's a 50 50 for half people it does nothing
6:02
But it won't hurt for you but for half the people that like literally cures their migraines
6:07
So I was like okay
6:09
Literally change my diet went on a fever if you never got a migraine again
6:13
Wow and fever a few is an herb that you drink as a tea, right? I actually did it as a supplement
6:19
You can go to like whole foods will have it
6:21
It's like more common than people think most people just probably haven't heard of it unless they're like a migraine person
6:26
So it works as a preventative you take it every day
6:30
You know, it's not just you take it if you start having pain and then through some more like reducing inflammation
6:36
Doing some other work on my health. I was able to wean off of that as well
6:39
But that really threw the point home to me of how important like you can see a chiropractor every week for an adjustment for your migraines
6:47
And it will probably help you
6:49
But the root cause is probably coming from something going on inside
6:54
Yeah, I think that's the way as you got to look at things from a holistic standpoint not just a symptom
7:02
Management yeah, what got you into supplements and starting your own supplement company
7:09
That's a little bit of a leap. I know that you're probably as a chiropractor in a physician
7:14
You're recommending supplements, but did you see something wrong?
7:19
That's been quite the evolution as well. So
7:22
In my practice since day one, I've always done a lot with supplementation
7:26
Because when you work on a more holistic level people aren't just coming to see me for like back pain or neck pain right the traditional new patient
7:34
I see has like I've seen 10 people no one can figure it out or I don't want to take medications for my kids
7:41
Exama like what else can we do right so that's just what I've attracted so
7:46
I studied a lot of that kind of stuff in school
7:51
Nearly every patient I see we're talking about their diet. We're talking about optimizing stuff with supplements
7:55
So I've been like deep in that world for a really long time and then what happened is a few years into practice
8:01
Dr. Alison Evans called me up who's the founder of fringe
8:05
Who I knew through
8:07
Previous things she used to work for a company called rock tape and that's a whole story in and of itself
8:12
But we met through them and
8:14
She was like hey, I'm starting up this new thing and it's called fringe. She want to be a part of it
8:19
And I was like yeah sounds great
8:21
I'm in just because of the name
8:23
Oh, you're really like literally I am French so yes
8:27
When do I start it was at the perfect time in my career was actually in 2020 when like the world everything slowed down
8:35
And I was kind of feeling like yeah, I'm ready for like to add something else to what I'm doing
8:41
And fringe actually started out as a CBD company
8:45
Which many people now actually don't even know
8:48
And then we quickly ventured into red light therapy products which we also have that's a topic for another podcast
8:55
And then the past couple years
8:58
We've branched into supplements and it's really we always intended at fringe to kind of be a wellness marketplace
9:05
Like we will have high quality products to offer people in many different categories
9:10
You know based on what people need and supplements was just kind of a natural transition
9:15
Between our medical team the three of us like Allison is very versed in developing products
9:21
I'm very versed on the clinical side using supplements for a really long time and seeing what works and what doesn't work with people and what people need
9:29
And then our scientific director
9:31
Dr. Genevieve Newton is like a crazy researcher
9:35
So we kind of just like have the perfect people to really be able to come up with high quality products and be able to like backup what we're saying
9:44
as well and
9:46
It's been quite the journey as much as I thought I knew about supplements. I've discovered. I basically knew nothing
9:53
And first starting from ground zero
9:56
Yeah, right and I think that is the reality that
9:59
Similar to the makeup industry similar to the house cleaning supply industry
10:06
There is this sometime this illusion of
10:09
Transparency this illusion that well of course. It's got to be natural. Why wouldn't it be but
10:15
Yeah, not so the case now. I think something that's really fascinating about the fringe supplements that you sent me
10:23
There's no flavor
10:24
That's like taboo, right? I mean
10:27
Like every industry out there is trying to figure out what's the flavor. I should put in there adding all these
10:33
Natural or artificial flavors. What was your decision to not do that and clearly there's a reason why
10:42
Yes, well part of it was like completely
10:46
accidental
10:48
Part of it was our the CBD products we make we make water soluble CBD
10:52
So it's a powder and we make it flavorless
10:55
So the first products we ever made were flavorless powders and with CBD that really helps people because a lot of people do not like the taste of CBD
11:03
So that's super beneficial
11:05
However, we 100% planned on making a flavored electrolyte
11:10
What we didn't anticipate is that it's very very very hard to do in a way that meets our standards for being clean
11:18
And so it was actually this big kind of come to Jesus moment of like
11:23
We actually can't do this right now
11:26
But we need to get a good
11:28
electrolyte powder out on the market because one doesn't really exist
11:34
And why don't we just make it flavorless and it was like up
11:37
Like it wasn't really what we planned to do we were actually like to the
11:42
Second of about to like push go on in order for an orange flavored electrolyte
11:48
Tasted amazing
11:50
But then we found out there were like four
11:52
Extra ingredients that we were not told about
11:55
That you don't have to have on the label
11:57
That opens up a few questions right there because first of all
12:01
How did you find out about them because a lot of times they're not disclosed
12:05
That's one and then two
12:08
Why aren't they on the label?
12:10
So the first part of that is I think a lot of people actually just don't ask
12:15
So the way it works is if certain ingredients aren't small enough amounts legally they do not have to be on the label
12:22
So that's the case and a lot of products especially supplements especially powders and
12:30
We are like crazy
12:33
About knowing every single detail from the ground up of what's in our product and what had been disclosed to us
12:41
In this process
12:43
This is from like the flavor company. Okay. This isn't from like our people
12:47
Was that okay the ingredients are gonna look like orange peel extract orange juice orange oil right something like that
12:55
Labeled as a natural flavor or no
12:58
Okay, actually be labeled
13:00
With those ingredients orange oil and we're like great. No one has a label like that
13:04
Everyone else says natural flavors and that's what we are going for
13:07
We made it very clear with our factor from day one
13:09
We will not have natural flavors on any of our labels
13:12
So like don't even bother sending the samples where that would be the case
13:16
Because so much of that's proprietary right and we can get into that as well
13:19
And so we were like all the way to the finish line it met our
13:23
Quality standards like how we want the label to look all of that testing standards
13:29
And then we were like okay, we need to triple check and we need to actually see
13:34
The like CVA the like certificate from the flavor people of everything that is in this we want to like triple check it before we
13:43
push go
13:44
And it came back and in like four extra things in it
13:47
What are examples of I can't remember I think all of them, but it was maltodextrin
13:53
Which is one of the ones we said that will never be in our products
13:57
Another one was silicon dioxide which is an a lot of stuff and almost never labeled
14:02
Probably citric acid as well right
14:05
Citric acid for sure, but we knew that one
14:08
I can't remember the other one
14:09
But silicon dioxide and maltodextrin were the big two because we were like
14:13
We don't want those
14:15
But the flavor coming it came back and was like don't worry because legally you don't have to put them on the label
14:19
You can keep them off and we're like that's why this isn't gonna work. That's exactly what you just said
14:25
Is why we will not be partnering together and so that whole experience first of all is mind blowing to all of us
14:32
And second of all
14:33
Really made us you know the benefit of this whole process and it taking so long and it just being so hard to do the right way
14:41
Was it's really made us hone in on our values as a company of like these are our lines in the sand
14:47
And then it actually becomes a lot easier because you're like
14:50
These you know it filters out all the other stuff
14:54
But I was not aware of how many things do not even have to be on the label and so the worst part about all of this is that
15:04
Labels aren't enough anymore
15:06
And I always thought great you screw nice the label
15:09
Most things have natural flavors in them or citric multi-dextrin or whatever stuff you don't want
15:14
But you look at the label. You know it's in there. You can make an informed choice
15:19
Now it's like we can't even say that so fundamentally you just have to like really
15:24
Trust a company in a research what they're doing
15:27
And email their customer service and you know most of them will tell you if you reach out to them
15:34
In a social DM to their customer service like hey, what actually is this natural flavor
15:40
Many of them will tell you or at least give you a lot more information and you can make a better choice
15:45
But it's wild the stuff you don't have to disclose
15:48
Well, but even in the case of people disclosing I feel like there's still sometimes
15:56
Ingredients that they don't disclose like correct people don't talk about carriers
16:01
Which is really ultimately what multi-dextrin is a lot of times particularly if it's in a flavor
16:07
It's a carrier. I'm thinking of like even
16:10
And it's a bulk filler like citric acid
16:13
It makes it appear like you're getting more for your money
16:16
So there's more powder in your packet, but a lot of times it's not necessary the amount of it is not necessary
16:23
Right, I mean, and I know for example
16:26
I don't want to disparage another company in this podcast, but there is a coconut powdered
16:33
Company out there and I know for a fact that it is impossible
16:38
To have coconut powder not have a carrier. It's not like the water. Yeah, there's no way. There's no way
16:44
Right, it's impossible
16:45
So that means that if you're eating anything or have any blends that have coconut water in them that is coming from a coconut
16:53
Powder there's probably more carrier in it than there is the coconut water
16:58
Yep, and the truth is unless a company is posting
17:02
publicly a certificate of analysis that shows you
17:06
What is in their product that they're testing the batch you consume this is what's in it
17:11
This is what's not in it. This is what we test for you just really don't know and you're kind of just trusting
17:17
What they say and a lot of like the natural flavor stuff
17:21
You just have no idea what that means and it usually means it's proprietary so they technically can't disclose so they'll say things like
17:29
Everything in there is extracted from like natural oils and you know blah blah blah, but you still don't really know
17:35
It still could be an ingredient list 10 things long
17:38
Even in this spice industry, they'll list certain things and then they'll just say spices and you see this actually in grocery stores
17:45
Yes, yes, and that's their proprietary blend, right?
17:49
But it's so
17:50
Deceptive because it's not just spices it could be
17:54
Flow agents it could be other things that to your point maybe there's only 2% or a small percentage
18:01
So they don't have to list it
18:03
But what I find fascinating as well is
18:07
People's reactions like so some people they think well this is a blood sugar thing, right?
18:13
So it's like if there's maltodextrin if it's not a lot then who cares?
18:16
It's not making me you know shoot out insulin or something. It's not it's not doing that. So what's the big issue?
18:22
I think it's such a narrow perspective because what we're really talking about is not only just to transparency
18:28
But what commas with these hidden ingredients is sometimes let's just say if you're sensitive to a corn
18:34
Where is maltodextrin coming from? It's usually coming from corn, right?
18:38
It's like what is the source of these ingredients is sometimes it's that source
18:43
And in the other pieces that we don't live in a bubble like you might have
18:48
One electrolyte that has tons of maltodextrin in the natural flavor
18:52
But you're not only getting it there
18:54
You're getting in in 50 other products you're eating and so it's like it's cumulative effect and hardly anyone is ever talking about that
19:01
They're just focusing on like well
19:03
Yeah, if when I had this electrolyte like you're acting like it raised my blood sugar levels is like it didn't
19:08
I have a CGM and it's like dude that's not at all what I'm talking about
19:12
Yes, that's the stuff that it's like impossible for us to ever have hard data on like
19:17
What's happening from people that are consuming electrolytes like that multiple times a day on a daily basis over the course of 20 years
19:25
That's like what we're talking about right and we'll never have that data
19:28
We'll never have that data. No, you'll never know and it's like correlation versus causation whatever the bottom line
19:33
Is we just want to like limit exposures to those things as much as possible
19:38
And just kind of cut the BS on like the truth is you can make an electrolyte without that stuff
19:44
But it's a lot harder and it's more expensive
19:47
That's the truth
19:48
I had to laugh there was this one person who in that electrolyte conversation said
19:53
Just have unflavored. It's time to be an adult and I thought that was so funny
19:58
So brilliant. Yeah, because this idea that we do need all these flavored drinks is really it is kind of a very kid-like mentality
20:06
Let's dive into
20:08
Some of these nefarious
20:10
Ingredients if you could even share some of the learnings you've had around them like and really like what is the sourcing like we mentioned like
20:18
Multidections it's typically sourced from corn. Why is multidextrin an issue?
20:24
Citric acid, where is that usually it's not usually coming from a citrus fruit, right?
20:28
It's it's actually laboratory made right so can you kind of dive into the actual nefarious ingredients?
20:35
The biggest problem with most of those ingredients is that
20:40
A, we don't know cumulative effect
20:43
So we really just have no idea right and like you're saying
20:46
Someone has an autoimmune thyroid condition and they don't respond well to corn
20:50
Them having one of those drinks here and there is that ruining their health. No
20:55
But again daily for decades
20:58
Potentially
21:00
It's like the dose creates the poison with a lot of this stuff like you're saying
21:05
This stuff is even in like cosmetics and stuff like that
21:09
Anything that's like a powder it can show up
21:12
maltodextrin
21:14
Almost always sourced from corn
21:17
Corn can be problematic to a lot of people for a lot of reasons. It's a grain. It's very very commonly highly
21:25
contaminated with pesticides
21:27
So that's another issue
21:30
and
21:31
The deeper question is what corn is it sourced from?
21:35
usually from China
21:37
And that's another shocking thing is that so many ingredients in our supplements the majority are sourced from China
21:45
And some of them that's fine if you're looking at making like a mushroom supplement
21:51
That's literally the climate where those mushrooms grow the best and you can get organically sourced and like all the right things
21:57
But a lot of stuff is synthetic and made in China. So we have even less control over quality
22:03
We know even less details and then
22:06
What is the body doing with that? So a lot of people don't like maltodextrin because of the corn base
22:12
And it's a starch. It can spike blood glucose in some people
22:16
For some people everyone's blood glucose and insulin response is different
22:21
Right some people have a more healthy adaptable
22:24
Insulin response and are going to do just fine with that
22:27
I see another people they have one of those drinks and it spikes it
22:31
So you don't really know unless you're testing your own body
22:33
But there's a lot more going on in the body than just your insulin levels
22:37
And so to me it's like when we know better we do better if there's a product out there
22:42
Without kind of the junky stuff we don't need
22:45
That's a better choice and the other biggie so there's maltodextrin and citric acid
22:50
Where's citric acid normally sourced from?
22:53
It's like grown on mold
22:55
So
22:56
A lot of people don't like that. There are certain companies out there you can source it from citrus fruit
23:00
Or you can also source it grown on like tapioca
23:04
like in different mediums
23:06
And this is one thing I learned that I didn't know citric acid or malic acid
23:11
In certain flavors like citrus flavored products it's actually is necessary for the taste
23:17
So that is one where I think the quality is super important that the company is doing
23:22
Third-party testing should be the standard
23:25
To make sure there's no micotoxins or toxins from mold in your product
23:29
Well most people aren't doing that testing. They're testing for heavy metals
23:34
And then they're testing for contaminants but not necessarily mold
23:37
Most people don't test for pesticides and don't test for mold
23:41
Some tests for heavy metals are they test for like
23:44
One or two pesticides not like 200
23:47
Right because there's a scale everything's more expensive than more you test for
23:51
So a lot of people do the bare minimum
23:53
We've jumped into a whole new rabbit hole now
23:56
but testing
23:58
Many of the big professional grade supplement companies so think people have heard of these
24:04
Pure encapsulations, thorn, integrative therapeutics, right?
24:08
Generally have much higher standards which is great generally their products that like people like myself
24:14
Are selling in their offices
24:16
But most of these big companies they do all of their testing in house
24:20
I don't like that. I don't fully trust that you should be sending your product to a third party
24:26
Lab
24:27
To have your stuff tested like it's just to me. I don't know why that's not the gold standard
24:32
It's wild and most of these companies
24:36
They don't disclose their results at all
24:39
they just say like
24:41
Tested and pass you know whatever regulations right but as we know a lot of those regulations are like bare minimums
24:48
They don't really mean a whole lot. It means it's like safer consumption
24:52
But doesn't meet the standards of what you actually want to be consuming
24:56
And so that's what we decided
24:58
And it's a huge gamble to take. I'm not gonna lie
25:01
We decided to third party test every single batch that we make
25:07
And we test stuff before and after production and we publish the results on our website
25:13
So it's like you can go look it up
25:15
You can go see the results that you know we test for every pesticide you can possibly test for like we do it all
25:22
I think we're like at the forefront of this
25:24
I think now the consumer is getting very very smart. They're way more educated than before
25:30
They're demanding cleaner products. They're demanding transparency like companies aren't gonna be able to get away
25:35
With this for much longer for just saying like our products are clean like people are gonna want to see the proof
25:42
I don't know if you know this kind of granular information, but do you know how much the
25:47
Testing that you guys do how much it costs like total that you're spending just on testing because I know for us example doing
25:54
Heavy metals and contaminants the heavy metals is
26:00
150 dollars a skew and then it's a few hundred
26:04
Yeah, right? So you probably
26:06
In the grand scheme of things is nothing. So I think it's like gross that everyone isn't doing this like you're not losing that much money
26:15
I just think everyone should have
26:17
Full transparency and informed consent
26:21
Basically when you're consuming a product and especially so many of our customers are
26:26
Mothers they should feel good about giving their children
26:30
Like these products and know what's in them and the reality is most people have no idea
26:35
What's in like all of the products they're consuming which is crazy. I think though you bring up a good point though around
26:42
Well, what's the lens we're looking at it though because when you do these tests
26:48
they come back and
26:50
They will say oh, it's under the norm whatever or what it's supposed to be but to your point sometimes that measurement is is not as
27:00
Sharp as you want it to be as a practitioner, right? So there's the standard
27:04
But then as a practitioner you might go like actually we want that to be lower
27:09
And so the person purchasing this what lens should they be looking at it and how would they even know to look at it through that lens
27:16
Because that's what I get nervous about sometimes. I'm all for transparency
27:19
But I just get nervous of like well, is this going to get misinterpreted? I can't control if it gets misinterpreted
27:25
Totally
27:26
We haven't actually run into this
27:29
Honestly, I kind of doubt a lot of people are downloading are like CFA's and reading them
27:34
And trying to digest them
27:36
But that's where a lot of this falls on our scientific director Dr. Genevieve
27:41
We try and model like the levels we want to see based off of what is naturally occurring in the soil
27:46
Because I mean what else are you going to go off of right? So when you're making a product like a mineral product or a magnesium
27:53
This is important for people to understand. They're most likely will be
27:58
Low levels of some of those metals metals are naturally occurring in our environment
28:03
So you're talking about assault a mineral salt magnesium that literally comes from a rocks in the earth
28:09
Don't freak out if there's like really low levels of like arsenic and cadmium
28:13
We are designed to live with these things in our world
28:17
It's more concerning if like let us off the charts in a crazy way
28:23
But what I will say is
28:25
I don't think many companies would actually give you their testing results
28:29
Honestly
28:30
Because if you have nothing to hide, what do you care?
28:33
Someone reaches out to your customer service and you're like yeah check this out
28:37
Or are they using just like super super generous scales and just saying a lot of them will just say they won't give you the actual number
28:43
They'll just say like
28:45
Below acceptable limit, but you don't know what that actually means
28:50
You know our hope is to kind of more set the standard of like this is the type of stuff most people should be doing
28:55
And if our stuff came in before testing and was super contaminated
28:59
We'd be firing off a new batch
29:02
You know like we're not going to sell products to our customers that could be like harming their health
29:07
That's just like then what are we doing?
29:09
How is this showing up in your practice like are you seeing people that
29:13
Have toxic burden. I you know are you seeing the outcomes of
29:19
Some of these heavy metals or some of these ingredients showing up in people's chronic health issues
29:26
Yeah, the hard thing is again, it's like the
29:29
Which is it? It's that toxin bucket analogy, right? We're all kind of born with a certain size bucket a lot of that might be genetic
29:37
And every little additional thing is like a drop of water in your bucket
29:41
toxic air from pollution
29:43
processed ultra processed food like stress, right?
29:47
Medication side effects like every extra thing and eventually you're overflowing
29:52
Was it that electrolyte that has a ton of maltodextrin?
29:56
What threw you over the edge?
29:58
Right possibly I have definitely seen people
30:02
Reacting to stuff like maltodextrin or I've seen people that are really really sensitive to mold
30:08
Feel better for example when they take out like powdered products with a bunch of citric acid in them
30:13
That they're like oh like my congestion cleared up or I've seen problems with stevia
30:18
Actually a lot in practice. It can really like float people
30:22
Would you think it's because they're adding filler or flow agents to it or what do you why right? Is it the stevia?
30:28
That's what's so fascinating about stevia like
30:31
Stevia is a leaf like you can grow it just like anything else. I have friends that have it in their backyard
30:37
They take the leaves they pick them they steep them in hot warm water and it's a sweet tea
30:42
correct, but
30:45
That is not what's in your white powder scoop of what's in that right like how are they what are they doing to said
30:55
Organic stevia leaf to make it a powder in your electrolyte right and so like that's the process we go through which
31:04
I had never thought of previously as a clinician like how does for example a vitamin D product
31:11
How do we go from sheep's wool to a yellow liquid in a capsule
31:17
What is that actual process you don't look wave of magic wand and it's in a bottle right and it's usually quite chemical
31:24
So just because something says it's stevia what chemical processing is happening to super concentrate it into like one tiny drop is making your
31:34
30 ounces of water tastes like raspberry
31:36
You like it's not natural. They're not like chopping up dried stevia I'm throwing it in the packet
31:43
So that's the type of like rabbit holes we've been down over two years trying to understand the process
31:49
from like ground to bottle
31:52
And trying to keep that as close to possible as like nature
31:57
To use it as an example. Let's look at your electrolyte powder for example, okay
32:02
See yours has no added flavors no flavoring and most of them out there
32:08
Do have that they usually show up in natural flavors
32:12
Which we already articulated usually have carriers like maltodextrin and potentially other things as well
32:19
Other than the flavoring because you mentioned well we have a superior product
32:24
What makes the rest of your ingredients superior and what other people doing that you want
32:30
So the base of our electrolytes on paper probably looks similar to what other people are doing
32:37
sodium potassium magnesium
32:39
But we do our sodium from sea salt instead of just like table salt
32:43
And we add calcium and this is what we always look at like sourcing for things and so a lot of
32:51
Calcium in electrolytes and calcium supplements and anything with calcium is synthetic calcium
32:57
It's like calcium ascorbate that means it's made in a lab
33:01
Okay
33:02
We source our calcium from algae
33:05
So like those are the different things we do we always want to source stuff from like nature or from food wherever possible
33:12
Here's something people need to understand
33:14
Sometimes in the market like you cannot literally get something from the US
33:19
sourcing is can be
33:22
limiting so
33:24
Our commitment is to always get stuff in the most natural like cleanest form possible
33:29
And always evolving so like our first round of electrolytes we did not have calcium in there
33:34
but as
33:35
The months went on and we researched more and study more and studied the content of like mineral rich water
33:41
Dr. Genevieve was like a we need to pull it a little bit of calcium in this like calcium super important and in all
33:47
You look up the content of like sand pelagrino for example and mineral waters. They all have calcium
33:52
And it's super important for
33:54
Absorption and mineral contents
33:56
So we set out to find a calcium we could add and we sourced it from algae
34:01
Right, so we try and not do like supersynthetic things and then the other big differentiator for us is we add
34:08
50 milligrams of additional trace minerals to each scoop
34:13
So most electrolytes are just sodium potassium magnesium most of them don't have calcium
34:19
And then we add extra trace minerals which trace minerals are also
34:23
Super important for a lot of body processes and just how we're mineral depleted of like the big guys
34:29
Because our soils mineral depleted therefore our food is mineral depleted if you filter your water
34:35
Your water is mineral depleted right? So the trace minerals are just as if not more important
34:42
I feel like that is one of the biggest differentiators and then the only
34:46
You know extra powder we add to our electrolytes is organic enulin from agave
34:53
And that is necessary in any powdered supplement you have to have like your sing a flow agent that helps everything stay evenly mixed and helps with dosing
35:04
But we always want to add something that is like sourced from food
35:08
That's like real and that also has additional
35:12
Potential positive health benefits. So we decided on enulin because it's also a prebiotic starch
35:19
So it's also supports gut health a bit and that's it and that's your flow agent for your product basically
35:26
Which if we were other people
35:28
It would have been citric acid
35:31
And how much of the flow agent is the percentage of what you make like for most products is it like 50%
35:37
Are we talking is a 10% you know is it?
35:39
Most products are over 50% and it usually in my opinion. It's just to bulk it up
35:45
And this is another big like kind of come to Jesus moment
35:48
We had as a team is we were like
35:51
Our factory was like I don't think you guys understand how small these tubs and scoops are gonna be like
35:57
They're tiny you know you've had our stuff in comparison
36:01
It's like a tiny little scoop for our electrolyte or if they were stick packs they because people don't need them on
36:07
correct
36:08
And they're like people might be like you know, they're kind of come back to us was like
36:15
People might get this and be like I paid this amount of money for this and this is all I'm getting
36:20
And so we kind of wrestled that because their advice was you might want to bulk this up a bit more right
36:24
So we went back and forth on it and we're like no
36:27
Actually, that's our entire message and now our tagline is small scoop big good
36:32
It's like the minimal amount the absolute lowest amount necessary to maintain accurate dosing
36:39
To make sure everything's mixed right
36:40
You don't want the whole bottom of your electrolyte tub to be salt and it tastes terrible and you know
36:45
Different things have different weights and they need to stay mixed properly
36:49
So you do need that so that is one thing some people in like the super clean movement are like none of that should be in there
36:55
It's like oh, that's not possible you do need something but we can use very clean ingredients
37:00
That also have added benefit
37:02
Wow, yeah, I mean that is so interesting because I've always heard with supplements at
37:09
You know on the practitioner level versus like trader Joe's
37:12
That one of the reasons why trader Joe's are so cheap is not because
37:17
You know, they're getting a deal on their supplements. It's because there's less active ingredient in their supplements
37:23
So it's filler. It's more your pain for more filler
37:26
It's more filler and every ingredient is for sure synthetic from China
37:30
Is that's right? So the quality as well of course, right?
37:34
It's interesting because a lot of people don't really get that they think
37:39
Oh, I'm getting such a deal. It's like no, you're getting maybe a quarter of the product
37:44
You would be getting if you just got a practitioner
37:48
For that yeah, that's the whole dosing conversation right vitamin D's a perfect example of this. I'll see patients
37:55
When I see new patients I always have them bring all of their current supplements in to their first visit
37:59
And it's a very eye-opening right to what people that think have all the best intentions in the world are going out and buying so
38:06
For example, they'll come in with a vitamin D
38:09
Most people know you should be taking a vitamin D especially in the winter months, right?
38:13
Especially during COVID a lot of people got on the vitamin D train
38:17
Which is great. We all need it
38:18
But like you buy vitamin D even from whole foods for example
38:22
Write more premium quality
38:24
That's like better than what you'll find at CVS or Walgreens
38:27
But most of those products are like 1500
38:30
I use that's how vitamin D is dosed individual units
38:33
And it's like take one a day great. I've been taking this for six months. I supplement vitamin D
38:38
I'm doing the right things the truth is most people need
38:42
4000 I use per day just to maintain a healthy level right let alone more than that to raise your levels
38:49
Where I didn't the vast majority of us are very depleted in vitamin D
38:52
You know people be like oh like prescription grade or higher quality supplements are so expensive
38:57
It's like actually not really a lot of times you end up saving money because a high quality vitamin D product
39:03
will be like 5000 I use in one pill
39:06
Versus the one from whole foods you know is maybe $25 instead of 48
39:11
But you have to take five of them a day to get an effective dose
39:15
I feel the same way about self-diagnosis like I feel like
39:19
People think they're saving money, but what they end up doing is they follow whatever they self-diagnosed
39:24
They follow that protocol that they found on
39:26
You know the internet and they're just spinning their wheels for years and how they just gone to a practitioner
39:33
Who knew their stuff they could have been done in three to six months
39:36
Yeah, and done the right testing and like gotten to the bottom of it
39:39
Yeah, that's so interesting
39:42
I want to just go right back to the electrolytes real quick because I always want to make sure we kind of like cover as much of a topic
39:49
Because we can can you share even though we're you know
39:52
This episode is really about the truth behind the supplement industry and in behind the supplements most of us are
39:59
ingesting
40:00
But I also want to make sure people understand like why why should someone be taking
40:04
Electrolytes why is why are electrolytes important?
40:07
It's a great question
40:09
Electrolytes are important because a huge part of this story is just that we are so depleted
40:15
In our modern world. I used to think
40:19
Okay, we've all learned this growing up with a Gatorade
40:22
Electrolytes are important for athletes
40:25
Right or you're sweating a lot you do a sauna session your own vacation in Mexico
40:29
You need to like replenish your fluids because you're losing them
40:33
Yes, that's true and
40:35
We are so mineral depleted minerals are involved in virtually every single process of our physiology
40:43
And it's such a foundational support
40:46
That you know, there was a study done on vegetables the magnesium content and vegetables over the past 100 years has decreased by 90 percent
40:55
And now I know that figure is so
40:57
It's depressing. Yes, yeah
41:01
And you know, this is why everyone support regenerative farmers
41:04
Please because they are focused on restoring that mineral balance and like health back to the soil
41:08
Like it's such a fundamental thing
41:10
Don't forget the other piece too is like case so yes, regenerative farming is helpful
41:14
But once you pull that vegetable
41:18
It immediately starts to lose its nutritional value. So if you who knows how long it's been in the grocery store
41:24
And then how long has it been in your refrigerator? A lot of people don't realize it
41:28
They're getting zero micronutrients from it. They're just getting fiber. Yes
41:32
And then you're cooking it and it loses more
41:34
Yes, it's basically
41:37
Yeah
41:38
Limp fiber you're getting nothing guys instead of limp
41:45
Yeah, I mean, that's why we started out like our flagship couple supplements
41:49
Our minerals and magnesium magnesium it's also a mineral
41:53
That is super important for over 800 biological processes in the body and we literally just are not getting it
42:01
It's impossible, right? And so that's why we're calling our first few supplements are
42:06
Essentials supplements because it's just it is what it is. This is the modern world we live in
42:13
These are supplements everyone should be taking every day to round out their nutrition
42:18
And you know, I work with a lot of people and in the wellness world you might be like
42:22
Detoxing mold or healing your gut or working on parasites or optimizing your hormone function
42:27
All of that is wonderful, but I feel like everyone is looking for
42:31
The special new shiny supplement or protocol to heal them
42:36
And it's like if you aren't getting the minerals your body needs right and the hydration
42:42
Like you have to start there
42:43
You can't you know like out supplement from the basics right things like
42:49
Water hydration mineral content nutrients from food good sleep
42:55
Healthy light exposure getting out in the sun like all of those things are your foundation
43:00
And then sure go try the fancy biohacking and protocols and other fun stuff, but
43:05
You know, it's not as sexy, but it's the stuff we really really need and just I don't care if you eat all organic grass fed pasture everything
43:15
We are not getting the minerals we need
43:18
So I'm historically when I get blood tests
43:21
dehydrated like pretty much I think I've recently improved and I'll just straight up say it
43:28
How I've improved is because I started doing more electrolytes like so it supported my water absorption
43:35
However, if I were to backtrack I feel like the checklist most people should be providing themselves
43:43
If they do a blood draw and they are it comes back that they are dehydrated
43:49
That they should probably first look at and you know, tell me if I'm wrong or if you want to add to this
43:53
They should first look at is am I eating real food because obviously real food has water in it right
43:59
So first look at the food you're eating
44:02
Then how much water am I drinking in my day versus sodas and juices and all the it non water
44:09
product and then
44:12
it becomes
44:14
If you're doing those two things then it becomes okay, I'm drinking lots of water
44:18
I'm eating lots of real food, but I'm now I'm not absorbing it so something else is going on
44:23
So that's the that's the third layer of the onion that we have to peel right
44:27
Yeah, I mean the truth is minerals hydrate us water doesn't
44:31
And most of us are drinking dead water
44:34
Living water is flowing over a stream of rocks
44:38
Right, which is remineralized in it right or minerals in it right in a perfect world
44:43
We are drinking mineral water from a fricking stream
44:46
But that's not the world we live in
44:49
And many of us as we all should be should be filtering our water
44:54
Because to me, it's much more important that we're getting the forever chemicals out of water
44:58
The prescription medications the glyphosate the pesticides right there's so much toxicity chlorine
45:05
In our tap water like your municipal water
45:08
So we should definitely be filtering our water, but if you have a good filter
45:13
This all comes down to particle size
45:15
It's absolutely stripping all the minerals out
45:17
I remember gosh this was so long ago, but I used to go to a water place when I lived in LA
45:23
It was in Culver City
45:24
We were getting bottled water
45:27
And about I think I was doing it for two
45:31
Two or four years and about halfway in so about two years in or whatever it was
45:35
I realized it was all reverse osmosis water
45:39
You know, reverse osmosis removes the minerals
45:42
So are you re-mineralizing this water?
45:44
And they were like, oh no, that's why we sell these little bottles of minerals
45:48
I'm like, you did not disclose I was so pissed
45:51
I was like, yes, you guys are so dead water
45:55
Yeah, and look, I think reverse osmosis is the way most people should go
46:00
Because it goes down to the smallest particle size
46:03
It's going to get the most of the bad stuff out
46:06
That's what I have in my home, I have a reverse osmosis system
46:10
But every time I fill up my water, I'm putting minerals in it
46:15
You have to, what happens if you're drinking this ultra-filtered water
46:21
Your body is going to pull the minerals from your bones
46:24
When you drink your reverse osmosis, what are you personally adding to your water?
46:29
I add the fringe electrolytes
46:31
Because we have all those minerals and we have to trace minerals as well
46:35
If I've done several scoops of those a day, I also have like liquid trace mineral drops
46:40
That you can add back in
46:42
But there's no reason you can't do that several times a day
46:44
And that's why we designed our electrolytes
46:47
If you look at like the sodium content, it's a lot lower than a lot of competitors
46:53
For that reason, so you don't have to be scared of like
46:56
Let's say I fill this up three times in a day
46:58
I can put a scoop in it every time
47:00
And I'm not going to start retaining fluids
47:03
And like have problems from too much sodium
47:06
It's an electrolyte but also have an effect of like remineralizing
47:10
It's like making your water living
47:13
Again, basically
47:15
Is bloat the only way to really know if you're getting too much salt in the diet
47:21
through electrolytes or your food?
47:23
I would say bloat and fluid retention
47:25
Like swelling in the legs
47:28
And you're not going to the bathroom regga, you're not peeing regularly
47:31
That's retention as well
47:32
Correct
47:33
Or some people then they pee like crazy
47:35
Because their body is trying to get rid of it
47:37
So a lot of people are like
47:39
All I do is drink water
47:41
I'm drinking like 150 ounces a day
47:42
I'm trying to be so hydrated
47:44
And I can't stop going to the bathroom
47:46
It's like then your body doesn't like the water you're drinking
47:49
Whatever that is, whether it's electrolytes or from your tap
47:53
Your body is like, nope
47:54
No, thank you
47:55
That's not good for my cells
47:57
And it's excreting it
47:58
And you're not absorbing it
48:00
Like if you look at other cultures like Asian cultures
48:03
They think we're like idiots carrying around our giant water bottles all day
48:08
They don't do that
48:09
But what do they have?
48:10
They have mineral rich
48:12
Like broth and soup with every meal
48:14
Every meal, right?
48:15
And herbal teas
48:16
Like their
48:17
And like teas can be super high minerals, right?
48:20
It's minerals that hydrate them
48:21
They're not true
48:22
We shouldn't have to drink
48:24
Our body weight announces to be hydrated
48:26
That's like just kind of how unhealthy we are
48:28
Honestly
48:29
You know what's so funny, as I have not looked at it from that lens
48:34
And I've been in, she's so long
48:37
So I got a kidney stone when I was in my early 20s
48:39
And that's what propelled me on this path
48:41
I'm like, you know, oh, I got to food affects your health
48:45
I've got to take better care of
48:47
I have to be more mindful
48:48
And so I started carrying water with me from that day on
48:53
And yet, you're right
48:55
Other cultures that have more kind of like
48:57
mineral rich foods
49:00
That's part of the cultural food
49:03
They're not carrying around water
49:05
My parents' generation, no one had water bottles
49:09
Right
49:09
Even when I was growing up, I'm like, I don't think I drink water to those in college
49:12
To be honest
49:13
You know, we had other problems
49:14
But like, I wasn't carrying around a
49:17
This is ridiculous
49:19
You know
49:19
So I think it's a deeper question of like
49:22
Why are we so thirsty all the time?
49:23
Why are we so depleted?
49:24
Like our bodies are searching for those extra nutrients
49:27
Because we're not getting them from our food
49:30
And it should be in our food and in our water
49:33
So just to complete this
49:35
And I love that we
49:39
Went from, you know, uncovering some of the supplements
49:43
The ingredients that are in supplements that are hidden
49:47
That you don't know to now
49:49
How these things affect our health
49:51
Because that's the reality
49:52
That's why we're doing these things
49:54
We're trying to heal, we're trying to fix chronic issues
49:58
But I think ultimately
50:00
What we're landing on is like
50:01
Well, let's see if we can get this
50:03
Just through our food and our actual diet
50:07
And I think for people to sometimes know
50:10
That there's something wrong
50:12
They have to know what to look for
50:13
So we talked about
50:15
electrolytes
50:17
Talked about fluid retention
50:19
And sometimes where you have to pee a lot
50:21
What should someone's urine
50:23
Look like in your opinion
50:26
It should be like slightly yellow
50:29
But not very dark
50:30
Yeah, not brown
50:31
I feel like if it's completely clear
50:34
You're the type of person that's drinking a ton of water
50:36
And just peeing it all out
50:37
Like you're not absorbing it
50:40
So it's good for urine to have like
50:42
Somewhat of a yellow color
50:43
But it shouldn't be super super dark
50:45
It shouldn't smell super super bad
50:48
It shouldn't be like foamy and like really dark
50:51
If they don't notice the smell during the day
50:53
Of the fact that when they go to wake up
50:55
And they pee in a smell is stronger
50:57
Do you think that's a sign of like
50:58
Oh, there's something else going on
51:00
Or do you think that is that normal
51:02
After you've slept through the whole night
51:03
I think that's pretty normal
51:05
Especially if you've slept through the whole night
51:06
And you haven't used the restroom in seven to nine hours
51:10
Your urine is obviously going to be more concentrated
51:12
And you also weren't drinking fluids all night long either
51:16
Right? So the more concentrated
51:18
urine is the more it's going to
51:20
Smell
51:21
Last question
51:22
What's your opinion drink water when you're eating
51:25
Or no
51:26
No
51:27
And why?
51:29
When we drink water when we eat
51:30
It really dilutes our stomach acid
51:33
Hydrochloric acid
51:35
The stomach is meant to be a very very harsh
51:38
acidic environment
51:40
You guys know that because if you vomit
51:42
It's horrible
51:42
It's very acidic right?
51:43
It like burns
51:45
But that's what we want
51:46
Because that stomach acid
51:48
Is what should A kill off any pathogens
51:51
We're potentially exposed to
51:53
So when you get food poisoning
51:54
That's because it was a bad bug
51:56
That your body couldn't kill off in your stomach
51:58
But most of us
51:59
There might be a little bug
52:01
In that salad you ate
52:03
There might be a little microscopic parasite
52:05
Or a little bit of bacteria or virus
52:08
It gets into the harsh stomach acid
52:10
That's super rough environment
52:13
Dead on contact
52:14
Is what should happen
52:16
The second thing is that really helps break down our food
52:19
Right? So people that get acid reflux
52:23
They eat and they're immediately bloated
52:24
And they feel like stuff is just stuck
52:27
In their stomach
52:27
Like it's just a pit
52:29
Usually it's the opposite of what people think
52:31
They think they need to take ant acids
52:34
Usually those people actually need more acidity
52:37
And drinking
52:38
It dilutes that environment
52:40
Right? You're putting 10 ounces of water into your stomach
52:43
What is that going to do to the acid concentration
52:45
And it's going to make it less acidic
52:47
At a time when you need it to be high acid
52:49
Because it's right
52:50
And most other cultures
52:51
They also think it's crazy that we drink water with meals
52:53
They don't do that
52:55
They might have a glass of red wine
52:57
But they're certainly not drinking water
52:59
We should drink water outside of meals
53:02
And one of the worst things you can do from digestion
53:04
I'm victim of this sometimes
53:05
Because I love it
53:06
Is doing like a sparkling water with a meal
53:08
Because that's going to mess up
53:09
That environment even more so
53:11
Right?
53:12
Especially the type person
53:13
The sparkling water specifically
53:15
The carbonation
53:17
And it's just another way you're just diluting
53:19
That environment you want your stomach
53:21
To be very acidic to break down your food
53:25
But yet when you go to fly
53:27
It's suggested that you do drink carbonated water
53:30
Which is supposedly supposed to help
53:32
You not get as dehydrated if you heard that before
53:35
No
53:35
Oh
53:36
You should try it
53:37
Like on airplanes
53:38
Yeah
53:38
When they walk around with the cart
53:40
To get a liquid request
53:43
Soda water instead of flat water
53:45
I've never heard that
53:47
Interesting
53:47
I've noticed it helps
53:49
This has been awesome
53:51
I hope those watching or listening have
53:54
gotten a nugget
53:55
Because I think this is such an important topic
53:58
Not only what is in the supplements
54:02
We're taking what the industry is
54:04
Technically hiding due to
54:06
Financial reasons and proprietary reasons
54:09
But then also like
54:11
What is our body revealing about what we need
54:14
And then lastly
54:16
And I would say
54:18
Maybe the most encouraging is that there are companies
54:21
Like fringe
54:23
That are thinking and producing products
54:27
With a different lens
54:28
And with a different set of values
54:31
So thank you for doing that
54:33
And for making transparency a priority
54:37
So can people work with you
54:39
And please share where they can find you
54:42
And tell us a little bit about your podcast
54:45
Probably best way for people to find me
54:47
And look at all the things is Instagram
54:50
My handles drdr.abbykramer
54:53
And that links to fringe
54:55
It links to like all the things
54:57
Finding my practice and all of that
54:59
And my podcast that I do with my cohost
55:02
Dr. Nicole Huffman is called coffee with the docs
55:05
That we just had you on
55:07
Yeah, that was so much fun
55:08
Sadly I didn't get to meet your cohost
55:11
But hopefully another time
55:13
I know we'll have to do it again
55:14
Well, thank you again for coming on here
55:16
I'm so grateful we got connected
55:18
And I'm excited
55:20
Do you guys have any new products coming down the pike here?
55:25
We sure do
55:26
Back to the vitamin D conversation
55:29
That will be the third and last product in our essentials line
55:34
Because that's another one
55:35
We feel very confident that the majority of us need to supplement
55:38
Because we don't get enough sunlight really
55:41
Therefore we don't have enough vitamin D
55:43
And that was that whole rabbit hole of like
55:47
It comes from like processed sheep's wool
55:49
And like what is going on
55:51
No one talks about this, no one knows about this
55:52
So we have a vitamin D and K flavorless powder
55:56
That will be coming out in March
55:58
But you can pre-order it now
56:00
On the website
56:01
But same thing same clean label
56:04
Testing, transparent, no extra added fillers
56:07
All of that and super absorbable
56:10
Well if anyone wants to get fringe products
56:13
That we've mentioned here
56:14
Just check out their line of goods
56:16
Fringe has been kind enough to give us a discount for you
56:20
It is going to be EA10
56:22
So E for everyday and A for ancestral
56:25
So EA10
56:26
You'll save 10%
56:28
I have tried the electrolytes and the magnesium
56:32
I got to say y'all like
56:34
It's so clean
56:36
I put the electrolytes in a nice size bottle of water
56:40
It still tastes like normal water
56:42
You know, but if anything it tastes even more crisp
56:45
Like better
56:46
But it doesn't taste salty, which is key
56:49
I think that's the fear people have
56:51
When they see unflavored things
56:52
Is that it's going to taste like an element
56:55
Or you know on metal
56:57
And that's because we don't put a thousand milligrams
56:59
In a serving like a lot of competitors
57:03
That works great for some people but not all
57:05
So we wanted to just be a nice safe lower dose
57:09
Kids, it's great for kids who also
57:11
By the way need minerals
57:13
Probably more so than adults
57:15
Because their bones are growing
57:17
And so you can sneak it in their smoothies
57:19
Sneak it in their water
57:21
And they're getting those super important nutrients
57:24
Thank you all for joining us on everyday ancestral
57:27
I hope you're getting a lot out of these discussions
57:29
I know I am
57:30
Stay curious and please share
57:32
Thank you
57:35
Thank you so much for joining me on everyday ancestral
57:39
If you enjoyed this episode hit subscribe
57:42
So you don't miss the next one
57:43
You could find the show notes links
57:45
And resources mentioned at eatpluck.com
57:48
That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K
57:53
.com
57:54
And hey, if you know someone
57:57
Who'd get something out of this
57:58
Share it with them too
58:00
Stay curious
58:01
Live well
58:02
And keep it ancestral