Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 152: The Jedi Trials

Transcript

Episode 152: The Jedi Trials · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

0:00
It's most things Kenobi and don't try at Anakin.
0:03
We always have the high ground. Hi everyone, welcome to another
0:21
episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
0:24
all things Star Wars. I'm your host, Leanne.
0:27
And I'm your host, Lauren. And this week we're talking
0:30
about the Jedi Trials and very fascinating topic.
0:36
Once I dug into it, I didn't know too much.
0:38
I knew that they occurred and I knew that we got to see some of
0:41
them. Without knowing it even.
0:44
Yeah, without really knowing it. But when you dig into them and
0:48
you kind of go down through the list, if you will, it's pretty
0:52
fascinating. Although I have questions about
0:56
some of them. I do too.
0:58
I actually found some of it quite confusing.
1:01
I thought one of them was quite terrible.
1:05
I did too, yeah. Is it the the Trial of the Flesh
1:08
by by chance? Yeah, yes, that's the one.
1:13
I see that they also downgraded that.
1:15
So sorry for all the poor bastards that didn't make it
1:20
because they died. I know, like how awful.
1:25
Holy shit guys. They were first mentioned in
1:29
Phantom Menace. I think that was the very first
1:32
reference ever to the trials that they did not mention it at
1:35
all in A New Hope. I don't know.
1:38
I mean, on Wikipedia it says Phantom Menace was the first
1:41
reference, so I don't even think it was part of Legends
1:44
necessarily. You know, until the sequel or
1:48
the prequels came out. Yeah.
1:50
And there's five of them in no particular order.
1:55
I think these are in order, though a Padawan must go through
1:58
these to become a Jedi Knight. Trial of skill, Trial of
2:03
courage, Trial of flesh, Trial of spirit, and Trial of Insight.
2:10
Now I have a question. Yes.
2:12
Do you have to go through all 5? That's a good question.
2:18
Because in the examples given and the Jeddahs that we looked
2:21
up, they did not go through all five necessarily, but some
2:26
didn't go through any of these. Correct.
2:30
Yes. OK.
2:31
So you're not sure either? I I didn't get a clear sense.
2:35
The sentence says there are five different trials that a padawan
2:38
must go through. Must meaning five different ones
2:42
that they must go through. I'm just gonna repeat the words,
2:47
but it seems like if you pass one, then you're good.
2:53
Maybe because what we do know. OK, let's just say Anakin, for
2:58
example, passed the trial of the flesh when he'd battled Dooku
3:04
and lost his arm. Right.
3:06
Thus he completed, according to Obi Wan, literally canonically
3:11
saying he passed the trial of the flesh.
3:14
OK, but what about the other ones?
3:16
He did also pass the trial of courage.
3:20
Right. Fought well if you consider the
3:25
older Clone Wars cartoon which I I can't remember if Beth one's
3:28
just the Clone wars right the the 2D version.
3:32
Micro Series. Yes, when he fought Ventress,
3:36
but then it's also Canon that he was.
3:39
He passed the Trial of Courage for his acts in the Clone Wars.
3:44
So he passed 2 trials, but not all five trials.
3:49
But I could, I could also say that the insight he did he pass
3:53
because his insight was on mortis.
3:57
Could we count that? Maybe we should explain what
4:00
each of these are. Yeah.
4:02
We're getting ahead of ourselves as we do.
4:04
All I'm saying is the most obvious example was Anakin
4:08
losing his arm but defeating Dooku, thus passing the trial of
4:12
the flesh. Well, and this is an example of
4:16
sometimes you have a trial in practical life, but the trials
4:20
in general were originally designed to be at the temple in
4:26
a chamber where they could kind of, it's basically like the
4:30
volume that they used to make all the the the shows nowadays.
4:35
They would create like holograms and false scenarios that felt
4:39
really real for the Padawans. And they would have like
4:44
controlled environments where they passed these trials.
4:47
But a lot of the Jedi that we love and are probably going to
4:50
talk about today didn't really even go through the official
4:53
trials at all. No, they just went off to battle
4:56
and then ended up dealing with them at the time, you know?
4:59
Exactly real world experience. Really.
5:04
Yeah. It's, I don't know, I I want to
5:06
talk about Ahsoka's because that one was the one that hit home
5:08
for me, but. Yeah.
5:11
Let's go through them. So the first traditional Jedi
5:15
trial was trial of skill, and it it's kind of self-explanatory.
5:19
The Order required its members to show a basic degree of
5:22
competency with the lightsaber and an ability to use the Force
5:26
to affect and enhance themselves for the purposes of combat.
5:30
The next one, the Trial of Courage, which involved the Jedi
5:33
confronting their greatest fears.
5:36
The Apprentice must strive for fearlessness even in the face of
5:39
certain death. Such fears usually involve death
5:42
or personal failure that leads to the death of someone else.
5:46
Then trial of the flesh, which we all.
5:48
We already mentioned that this trial historically involved
5:51
physical pain but was later adjusted to focus on sacrifice
5:55
and commitment to the light side.
5:58
Which when we talk about what they did that before they quote
6:03
adjusted it. It's real nasty.
6:06
It's real. Seems a little harsh but.
6:09
Yeah. Yeah, in anyways.
6:12
This trial involved The Apprentice being forced to
6:14
choose between protecting the objects of their attachment or
6:18
sacrificing themselves and the beings they are attached to for
6:21
the greater good. The Trial of Spirit.
6:25
This is a lot. It was designed to give The
6:30
Apprentice an opportunity to resist their emotional
6:33
weaknesses, giving them a firm moral footing from which to
6:37
resist the darker aspects of their characters.
6:40
I find that very fascinating. I do too.
6:42
There's a lot of good examples. What?
6:45
Yeah. Yeah, there are.
6:47
And then finally, the trial of Insight.
6:50
The trial tested the apprentice's ability to resist
6:53
illusions and deceptions. It also often included some kind
6:57
of Riddle or puzzle for The Apprentice to solve with an
7:00
answer that was further clouded by illusions.
7:02
Which is, you know, I think of Yoda going through this in the
7:09
last episodes of The Clone Wars before season 7.
7:13
Oh yeah, that's when he. Went through that.
7:15
So I mean you can be tested by any of these over and over and
7:19
over again. Not formally as a padawan, but
7:22
you will encounter them as a Jedi the further on you go.
7:27
Which makes sense as to why they wanted to test a padawan.
7:30
Which shit that they would see later down the line, probably
7:32
multiple times. When they even said that if you
7:35
become a Jedi Knight, you might be tested on these trials again
7:38
to become a Jedi Master and. Yeah, insane.
7:42
It makes sense too though 'cause you're you should have grown
7:45
quite a bit in between the interim there, so it'd be cool
7:49
to see. How do you do better at applying
7:55
for Jedi Master? You'll see if your your resume.
8:00
Yeah, true. Like here's my Jedi Knight
8:03
resume, here's my Jedi Master resume, here's my old Yoda
8:07
status resume. But it makes me wonder, did like
8:14
did Obi Wan pass them all again as Rayko Hardeen?
8:19
Oh my gosh, what a good question.
8:23
It might have failed a few of them.
8:25
Well true, I mean OK from a from a Jedi point of view but like he
8:29
went through his own fucking like trials being someone he
8:34
wasn't even like Obi Wan transcends the definition of all
8:41
of these. What it's I find it really
8:44
interesting that they say his duel with Maul was technically
8:47
his trial, right? And they say that it was the
8:49
trial of by courage, trial of courage.
8:53
But I think it's more than that. Oh, I think it's way more.
8:57
It's his trial of courage because he had to confront his
9:01
greatest fear, which maybe was lost and it includes the death
9:06
of someone. But it's also a trial of skill
9:08
and a trial of spirit because he could have turned and and was
9:13
like using power to begin with and then like calms when he
9:18
calmed down, that's when he succeeded.
9:21
Yeah. Totally.
9:23
I know the people have officially marked it as a trial
9:26
of courage, but I think a lot of these examples we're going to
9:28
talk about are really more than one trial at once.
9:33
I can't imagine being a padawan and have to test this stuff.
9:38
It's a bit much. It's a lot, Yeah, it's a lot.
9:43
And I just want to get to it because it's fucked up.
9:46
The trial of the flesh. Yeah.
9:49
They forced the Padawans to endure immense pain by
9:55
subjecting them to the burning. Yes, I read about that too.
10:00
My God, what the? Fuck, hold on folks.
10:05
Like they would burn their flesh down to the bone to see if they
10:13
could withstand it. Dismemberment was a huge part of
10:17
it, yeah. And like you said, I think
10:19
someone died doing that. Yeah, there was, there was one,
10:23
Yeah. And then they they had like, so
10:26
all of these padawans would go through these trials, but the
10:29
ones that didn't quite pass them would go on to do like a subset
10:35
where they can pass those and then be involved with the Jedi,
10:38
but not be a Jedi. They could still mill around in
10:41
the library. They could help up around the
10:43
grounds and stuff. So like they were like beat
10:45
here. This is so.
10:47
This is so sad. I think that was Legends.
10:50
So because I think in Canon, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:53
You can take the trials as many times as needed to to pass.
10:57
But in Legends, there's sorts of people who like, failed and got,
11:02
like you said, like you could be a civilian working at the Jedi
11:06
Temple, but you were to learn to be a Jedi.
11:09
Seriously, you could be a busboy in the kitchen and that's as
11:12
good as you're going to get because you couldn't withstand
11:15
them burning your flesh. Listen, the body, I just, I have
11:20
so many. I just have so many arguments
11:22
against that. I get it.
11:23
I get it to withstand pain is the point.
11:26
I get it. But holy shit do we have to burn
11:30
people to get the point across. I feel like that could have just
11:34
been a trial that like maybe if that happened to you, then you
11:38
could be like, Oh yeah, that's a trial of flesh.
11:40
But to do it actively to like, harm the pad of one is kind of
11:45
fucking insane honestly. It's insane so I'm glad that was
11:49
downgraded. It's it's literally referenced
11:53
here as a torture like ritual known as capital T, the capital
12:00
B burning the burning. Yeah, it's just so.
12:07
It's so fucked. Up anyway.
12:09
Yeah, it's messed up, but there's actually, there's quite
12:13
a few examples of it, even though, like in just Jedi that
12:17
we your, you know, your standard Jedi have quite a, it's quite a
12:23
list of trials by flesh. Well, every time they're strung
12:27
up and electrocuted, I would count that as a trial of you.
12:32
Know I can head that a lot then. All the time, all the time.
12:37
I don't know. Some of these other ones that
12:39
are more, they're more like in the mind.
12:42
Those are the ones that interest me.
12:44
Yeah, I like the trial, Trial of the spirit.
12:48
That to me is in in Wikipedia. I loved this.
12:54
The they said, you know, trial by spirit is where you go like
12:57
most of the time you'd go into like a deep meditation and then
13:00
you would face your fears and often it would be like the
13:03
darkest side of yourself. And and the lessons in one of
13:07
the paragraphs is the worst that could happen following a failed
13:10
trial. Is awakening from meditation,
13:12
screaming and mentally broken. Which is every other Tuesday
13:19
when I meditate honestly. Oh my gosh, it's just like, no
13:26
big deal. This sounds exactly like Luke.
13:29
I mean the example that comes to mind that is literally listed is
13:34
Luke going into The Cave which Rey as well.
13:38
Yes, Rey as well actually came to mind immediately for me too
13:42
because this is not them going off on a quest or anything like
13:46
that. But the fact that Rey goes down
13:49
into that sub cave and sees the mirror.
13:53
Like they actually another term for the trial of the spirit is
13:57
facing the mirror and she literally stands in front of
14:02
this row of mirrors reflecting her worst nightmare back to her.
14:07
And same with Luke in The Cave on Degeba when he faces Darth
14:11
Vader and then the helmet blows open and he it's him and he is
14:16
his own worst nightmare. I'm sorry but this is the one
14:21
that would scare me the most. Not the burning but cause like
14:27
physical pain can be dealt with unless you die but.
14:32
Psychological pain is very damaging.
14:35
It's it can like. Damaging.
14:37
Mess you up for years. Lasts a very long time.
14:41
I do like that they explained that this trial was so that a
14:46
Padawan understood themselves, understood that they too have an
14:51
inclination towards the Dark, because that's really what life
14:56
is. We talked about it in our
14:58
meditation episode, that everyone has a dark to the
15:02
Light. There's a balance.
15:04
It's how we confront that. What would have Anakin's been
15:10
'cause he did not pass this, I don't think.
15:14
The trial of Spirit. Yeah.
15:17
Was that Mortis where he saw? Yeah, you know, the the
15:22
younglings, Padme, Obi Wan, he saw the whole thing and he
15:26
screamed. I will do such terrible things.
15:29
Yeah. But then he still turned.
15:32
But the father? The father took his memories
15:34
away so he couldn't learn from the experience.
15:37
Yeah, that's a good question. Mortis is such a mindfuck.
15:42
It really is. That's why it's so good.
15:45
I know it's still one of my favorite arcs ever.
15:49
I think Anakin also dealt with the the illusion.
15:51
What's that one called? What's the lat?
15:53
The insight. Trial of insight.
15:56
Yeah, where they see illusions and stuff, and that was his mom,
15:58
but it was really the son that was playing tricks on him.
16:01
So really Mortis is the whole thing with Mortis is an
16:05
illusion, honestly. So I don't know if we can count
16:08
it. Mortis.
16:09
Mortis could have been his trial.
16:12
He was. I guess he was already a knight
16:14
by that point, but that could have been his Jedi Master trial.
16:17
Because it's, oh shit, it's. So many.
16:21
No, no, he failed. Oh.
16:24
God. Sorry pal.
16:27
No, sorry. It's just there's so many.
16:30
Basically the entire experience for him was a trial and even for
16:35
Obi Wan 'cause he's just standing back trying to figure
16:37
out what the fuck is going on. And even James has said James
16:41
was like if you notice Obi Wan knows nothing during the mortise
16:46
arc. He's always like, hmm, I'm not
16:48
sure we should be doing this. The whole he's. 10 minutes
16:51
behind the entire episode, he's he's just trying to keep up.
16:55
He's just trying to observe, but things are just changing way too
16:59
fast for him to keep up. Trial of insight is to me was
17:03
one of the harder ones to understand because they even
17:08
said it could be something as stupid as like a bunch of rocks
17:11
put on the floor. The padawaner would have to find
17:14
the grain of sand in between the rocks.
17:16
I'm like that doesn't sound like that.
17:20
Sounds like a waste of time. I'd be pissed if that was my
17:24
trial. Is this the one that Ahsoka
17:28
passed when she went on trial? That's a good question.
17:34
They all fucking failed to see the lies there, but she
17:38
withstood it and passed it. Although it could be, it could
17:42
be a trial of the spirit as well, because she had to
17:44
confront herself and the fact that she could not stay, she she
17:49
could not stay afterwards. I would say, Speaking of
17:52
Ahsoka's ordeal, there's probably a bunch of different
17:56
trials happening at once, because it's definitely a trial
17:59
of courage because nobody dies. But it's like her worst fear,
18:04
right, Of having no home and no place to be part of the
18:09
community she had grown to love. And the Jedi was central to
18:13
everything. And then they betrayed.
18:15
Her so sad. Yeah, so awful.
18:19
And I would say trial of the Spirit as well, because having
18:23
to face her truth, I don't know, like I guess the trial of Spirit
18:28
is kind of facing your darkness. So maybe that's not so accurate.
18:33
But definitely I would say trial of insight and trial of courage
18:37
for sure. What do you think?
18:38
Do you think it Ahsoka had trial of the Spirit with that?
18:42
I think she had. I think it was a combination,
18:45
honestly, but I believe that I don't know.
18:49
It's difficult. Yeah, I feel like these, the
18:53
trials, are not so cut and dried, and it's really kind of
18:57
up to the interpretation of the Jedi and the Council.
19:01
I feel like it could have been a trial of spirit because in the
19:04
sense of facing the mirror, she was facing everything she
19:09
thought she knew about herself within the order.
19:13
And it was actually, if you looked at it that way, it's a
19:17
trial of insight. Because the whole thing was a
19:19
complete lie and they didn't see her as they used to.
19:25
They didn't even give her a chance.
19:27
It was she's being undermined by people she trusted.
19:31
It was just this whole thing. And I think she could have
19:34
knocked off two or three of these.
19:35
Definitely courage, but there's a blend of insight and spirit
19:39
because she's facing herself and she's facing herself as she once
19:43
was in the Jedi Order, that she could not turn back and achieve
19:46
any more like that Page turned. It was never going to be the
19:50
same. And so in her decision to leave,
19:53
it was extremely mature. It was extremely challenging,
19:58
depressing. She had to hand Anakin over her
20:01
chain. She had to.
20:02
She knew he wanted to leave too and and told him she understood
20:06
and he more than he knew and all this stuff.
20:09
I mean, she became the Jedi that none of them expected in those
20:13
moments. And she was just reacting to
20:15
life unfolding around her. When she was making a very
20:18
mature decision there too, because the the council said
20:22
that the you know, this instead of saying like we were wrong and
20:25
we were assholes, they said, oh, this turned out to be your
20:28
trial. And you know, you have our
20:31
deepest apologies, but come be a Jedi Knight now.
20:34
And it's like they broke trust with her is what they did.
20:38
And so she passed her final trial by saying, no, I don't
20:43
think I will. I think I'll just go off on my
20:44
own. Yeah.
20:47
So I mean, the, the, the underlying theme here is that
20:52
all of these look a different way depending on the Padawan or
20:58
the Jedi Knight or whatever phase they're in.
21:00
And that makes sense because, you know, even if they weren't
21:03
having unorthodox trials, where they were going through the
21:05
trials at the temple, it's the same thing.
21:07
They would kind of customize it to the Padawan.
21:11
I like talking about Luke because there's a lot of
21:13
controversy. A lot of people are like, he's
21:15
not a Jedi Knight or Jedi Master because he never went through
21:18
the trials, but he actually did. He did.
21:22
Yeah, and he went. Through several.
21:24
He did. He went through quite a few of
21:25
them, more than some of these other Jedis that we talked about
21:29
in Empire Strikes Back. He has two trials in particular.
21:32
He has the trial of spirit or not.
21:35
Is it trial of spirit? Yeah, where he faces himself.
21:39
Faces himself in the Yeah. Facing the mirror, right, Trial
21:42
of spirit. And then later when he's
21:43
fighting Vader, he has the trial of the flesh 'cause he loses his
21:47
hand, yes. And resist turning to the dark
21:51
side like he even though he loses the battle, so to speak,
21:55
the dual, he wins the the overall game because he doesn't
22:00
choose to go with Vader. He'd rather die than turn.
22:04
And then in Return of the Jedi, facing Vader and the Emperor is
22:10
his ultimate trial, because in that one it's the trial of
22:16
courage, a trial of skills and insight as well, I would say.
22:23
And even trial of the spirit. Because again, they're trying to
22:26
like turn his 'cause he has anger and he has darkness in him
22:31
and they're trying to like use that against him and he resists
22:35
all of it and ultimately just would rather die and sacrifice
22:40
himself so. Which is explicitly stated as
22:44
part of the trial. Right.
22:47
Is that it says that? Is it the?
22:48
Flesh. Is it the flesh or the courage?
22:51
I can't remember now. Oh, I thought it was flesh
22:53
because. Oh, you're right.
22:55
Yes, yes, yes. Sacrifice themselves for the
22:58
greater good. Crazy.
23:00
Anyone who wants to argue that Luke is not a Jedi Knight can
23:04
fuck off. Well, I guess we should talk
23:10
about Ray because there's a lot of arguments about similar
23:13
arguments about Ray. And like she, she came up too
23:16
quickly and we're not here to say that she did or she didn't.
23:20
But let's look at what she went through.
23:22
Right. Which, if we're talking trials,
23:26
she definitely dealt with. Is the Spirit the one of the
23:29
mirrors? Yes.
23:31
So she dealt with that when you were already talked about the
23:34
courage. Her greatest fear was first of
23:37
all facing whoever she ended up being.
23:39
You know, that was always like her underlying question facing
23:43
Kylo Ren. Yeah.
23:46
And like multiple times and then when we see in the Rise of
23:49
Skywalker, she impales him and then heals him.
23:54
Right, right. And I think like that takes,
23:58
well, first of all, it takes the healing skill.
24:01
That's a pretty basic Jedi skill that many.
24:06
The healing. Heal, yeah.
24:07
They I usually have heard that that's really difficult for most
24:10
Jedi. Well, it came real easy to her.
24:14
Yeah. Who else healed?
24:16
Do we see anyone else heal? People who didn't Barris have
24:19
it? Wasn't Barris a healer?
24:21
Oh, I don't remember. Honestly, I don't know that much
24:23
about Barris. I only have watched.
24:26
I think it was in the novel. Oh, then I definitely have no
24:30
idea. Why I do The Apprentice I I read
24:32
it a long time ago. I'm pretty sure she's a healer
24:35
in that, or she was trying to get to be a healer.
24:38
Anyway. Ray healed Ben Solo and walked
24:44
away from all that bullshit and then worked with them at the
24:47
end. Yeah.
24:48
Work together. That's overcoming all kinds of
24:51
shit. Yeah, and like her, I would say
24:54
that it's kind of trial of the flesh.
24:58
Also in the end of Rise of Skywalker 'cause she dies and
25:03
then Ben Solo. Brings her back.
25:05
So that's his trial. Right.
25:07
And she like resists all the the pain and temptation and and has
25:13
the skill obviously to do what she needs to do and is willing
25:17
to sacrifice herself to finish this, you know, and that's.
25:22
True, yeah. And then after that she would be
25:25
a Jedi Knight, you know, like I would say she achieved it pretty
25:29
good. Just people are pissed online
25:33
because we don't see every minute of their training and
25:35
they seem to move through it really fast.
25:37
But if you read through the Wikipedia stuff, they said there
25:40
is no hard and fast rule about when you take the trials.
25:44
It's basically when your master either thinks you're ready or as
25:48
it comes up in just your natural life.
25:50
Some Jedi trials were while they were at war, you know some
25:56
Padawans. There's a bunch of references to
25:58
the Sith War, whenever that took place, and a bunch of Padawan's
26:03
past trials just by participating in that war and
26:06
having courage and, you know, fighting valiantly.
26:11
That wasn't officially taking all five trials either.
26:14
And some Padawan were young, like teenagers, and some were
26:17
actually adults. So people can just stop
26:20
complaining about it. I think it's an easy it's an
26:26
easy argument for people, so they use it.
26:29
Yeah. If they don't like the
26:31
character, they're gonna say, well, they didn't, they didn't
26:33
practice long enough, whatever. I, I would judge it by the
26:37
severity of their damn, their damn trials.
26:40
Cause like, how old was Ahsoka? Like I, I don't know, just
26:45
'cause she fought in the Clone Wars and Luke didn't have a
26:47
clone war to fight in, you know what I mean?
26:51
He didn't, you know, he wasn't sent out on missions where he
26:54
could show himself to his, his master.
26:57
His master was a fucking force ghost just trying to hold the
27:01
Skywalkers together. That's his trial bitch.
27:06
For in living and in death. What they don't say in the small
27:11
print is the Trial of the Skywalker, which is where you
27:14
are haunted by a family member for millennia past death.
27:22
Oh God. Well, I'm sorry, but Luke was
27:24
also the only Jedi who had to face the Emperor one-on-one
27:29
basically, besides Mace Windu, and that didn't turn out so
27:35
great, as we all know. Well, and Rey in the end, but
27:38
she had, she had the she had essentially had Luke and Leia
27:42
with her and then a host of all the Jedi, all of the Jedi.
27:47
That reminds me, you mentioned Kanan.
27:50
Yes, so if people want to complain about not having any
27:53
Jedi trials, guess who didn't? Our beloved Canaan.
27:58
Yeah. And he, he took, he took Ezra to
28:02
the lethal Jedi Temple, which is where you could actually do the
28:05
trials as well. You would have like 9 trials or
28:08
something there, which sounds exhausting, but so Ezra was
28:12
doing his thing. And then there is some episode,
28:14
I don't know, is it called like Shroud of Darkness or something?
28:18
I don't. Remember where he confronts.
28:21
Kanan, I don't know how this works.
28:24
Is it reminds me of the Matrix. Yes.
28:27
He goes into the Dojo and fights, you know?
28:31
They were like Temple guards, weren't they?
28:33
Like Jedi Temple Guards? And he has temptation and they
28:37
try to like, kind of undermine him.
28:40
And he finally comes to the conclusion that all he can do is
28:43
offer Ezra his best. He can't change Ezra.
28:46
He can't influence his mind. All he can do is be the best
28:49
teacher he can and hope that Ezra will make the right
28:52
choices. And like, that's when the guard
28:54
Knights him. Yeah.
28:56
And it's in a projection. I don't even think it's really
28:58
happening. I I feel like it's if I'm
29:01
misremembering this, but it, it feels like a scene from the
29:04
Matrix where it's like an alternate reality or something,
29:07
or a dream, or he's having a vision in the forest Temple
29:10
where this happened, something like that.
29:12
Yeah. I think it's official.
29:14
Yeah, it counts. It's it's Canon.
29:17
It's. It's rebel, sure, but I mean,
29:19
it's very similar to Luke seeing an apparition in The Cave.
29:25
I mean, there's all this symbolic, you know, the like,
29:28
you go into something, you're confronted by an illusion of
29:31
some sort, some kind of not hallucination, but like a a.
29:37
Projection A project? Exactly.
29:39
Yeah. From wherever it's coming from,
29:42
it's happening. You deal with it, you pass it.
29:44
And really what I think in one of the definitions, it said that
29:47
that trial was always overlooked by a master nearby so they could
29:53
pull you out if you got into trouble.
29:54
Like Yoda was there for Luke, wasn't in The Cave with him, but
29:58
hung back waiting. And then was Luke there for Rey
30:02
when Rey was in The Cave? Yeah, well, he got.
30:06
Freaked out, remember? He was like, you went right for
30:08
the darkness, Like who are you? What are you doing?
30:12
I don't remember because I saw it once and that's all I care to
30:15
see it. Yeah, I think.
30:16
It was 2. Separate occasions I think that
30:19
she had, she was having a meditation vision and there was
30:22
that hole in the ground. Remember that she kept seeing
30:25
and she went right for that. And that's when like Luke pulled
30:28
her out of it and was like, what?
30:29
I was like, what are you doing? Why are you going right for the
30:31
scariest, darkest thing? And then she went back there
30:34
later on her own, I think. But again, I've only.
30:38
Seen her out. That doesn't make any sense.
30:40
We're not talking about this. Sorry, like I said, I've, and as
30:44
you said, we've only seen it like maybe two times, so it
30:47
could be misremembering exactly how it happened.
30:50
But yeah, he was. He was.
30:53
He was on the island, at least while she was doing that.
30:57
None of it matters. The point is they all look
31:05
different. They all come at different
31:07
times. They all happen in in different
31:09
intervals, different lengths, different ages.
31:13
I think the tests come to us as humans in life when they're
31:17
meant to. When do we become fully
31:20
recognized as the person we are? Probably never.
31:24
We continually are challenged by life over and over, right?
31:28
And I think the same can be said for a Jedi, especially a good
31:31
Jedi, because they'll have those to fall back on.
31:35
It makes me wonder and I should have researched this ahead of
31:38
time, I I meant to and ran out of time but I wonder if the
31:42
trials are based on something? Like, was there something either
31:47
in the samurai or in in knighthood where you would have
31:51
to, I know, like I know to become a knight you would have
31:54
to like, prove yourself. And then you would spend a night
31:57
in meditation and prayer in the church before you.
32:02
The next morning you were knighted usually.
32:05
So yeah, there is that. Like officially, if you were
32:08
getting put through the trials at the Jedi Temple, you would do
32:12
the trials. If you passed, you were sent
32:14
sent to the Tranquillity Spire where you would spend a day in
32:18
meditation and then you would go to your ceremony where they
32:21
would cut off your padawan braid and then you were a knight.
32:25
Yeah. So there is similarity there
32:28
with the Knights Templar and stuff like that.
32:31
But the samurai, I don't know. I don't know if there was any
32:33
kind of initiation. I would assume so because you
32:38
would be some sort of student until you proved yourself worthy
32:43
to like, go into battle. It's true.
32:46
I don't know much about that, like in detail, so I'd be
32:49
curious to learn more about that.
32:51
Maybe another episode sometime. So I have a question.
32:56
What's that? Which one would you have the
32:58
most trouble with if you were a Jedi Padawan?
33:03
Oh man, that's a great question. I was reading these and for some
33:08
reason I thought I got to ask her, 'cause I don't know.
33:11
I, I think, I think I know, but for myself, not you.
33:16
But I wanted to know what you think for yourself.
33:19
That's a good question. I would say like at first
33:23
instinct is the trial of insight, because I hate that
33:27
kind of thing. But yeah, I also feel like the
33:31
trial of courage because facing your greatest fear, I'm not
33:37
afraid to face the darkest parts of myself, but facing the
33:41
greatest fear that I have, I feel like I'm kind of doing that
33:45
right now. And I'm not very graceful about
33:47
it. Like, it's really hard.
33:50
It's really hard to, like, not lose all hope.
33:53
So that I think trial of courage, like, if it was like a
33:57
battle, like Obi Wan, I don't know.
34:00
You don't have time to think about it.
34:01
You know, you just, like, do what you got to do and get
34:04
going. But like, if I had to sit back
34:06
and think about it too much, I think that would be the one that
34:09
would scare me the most. Yeah.
34:11
Think like what is your greatest fear?
34:13
And now you have to deal with that.
34:15
Yeah, Yeah. I, I, I too, think that the
34:19
trial of courage would be difficult.
34:21
But knowing how gullible I am, sometimes I think the trial of
34:26
insight would be bad because it's one of those things where
34:30
you want to believe in the good in people, but in doing so, you
34:33
risk being fooled by those same people.
34:39
And I feel like I try to be hyper aware of that.
34:41
And at the same time it fails me.
34:45
Like I still, it's that belief that I, I don't know, I just
34:50
feel it's either the insight for me or courage.
34:53
Because like you said, facing your biggest fear, identifying
34:56
it and then having to face it, that would be a, a giant.
35:00
That would be a very obvious challenge, but insight would be
35:05
insight would be me versus me almost in trying to see through
35:09
lies, deceit, disguises of some kind, you know, because they
35:13
they have all of this listed. Yeah, and I don't know, you
35:17
would think you have figured out and then another layer to the
35:20
illusion would show up. I I would find myself probably
35:24
getting really annoyed and frustrated.
35:27
And yeah, I would. I would get confused.
35:29
I would confuse myself and probably give up.
35:32
Yeah. Which I'm not happy to admit,
35:34
but like, because it's a little mystified.
35:38
This is a little mystical, this insight one.
35:40
It freaks me out a little. So I do wonder if that would be
35:43
the one, But I would have to go with courage as well.
35:46
Trial of skill like you know whether or not you're skilled,
35:50
you know and it's. Something you can work at to get
35:52
better, like here's the moves you need to practice.
35:55
Exactly. And same kind of with trial of
35:57
flesh. If it is pain, you either can
35:59
handle pain or you can't. But if it's the other kind of
36:01
pain where you're being forced to choose, of course you would
36:04
choose the greater good other than yourself under certain
36:06
circumstances, sacrificing yourself or the things that you
36:10
love for the greater good. Yeah, I guess that would be hard
36:13
too, but. That would be extremely hard.
36:15
Like damn I don't like any of these.
36:18
Anakin clearly failed that one. Real.
36:21
Bad. Clearly failed.
36:22
Clearly failed. Yep, didn't.
36:24
But he did kind of come around there with with Luke.
36:28
Yeah. Oh, he became a master right
36:32
before he died. Isn't that just the most ironic
36:36
part of Anakin's whole life? That's awful.
36:44
Oh, my God. Well, since we asked each other
36:52
this question, we'll ask you the same question.
36:55
Which of the Jedi Trials do you think you would struggle with
36:58
the most? Which one do you find most
37:00
challenging? We told you ours.
37:02
Let us know yours. And next week, I'm excited.
37:07
We are going to talk about Tales of the Empire.
37:10
Yes. Neither of us have watched it
37:13
yet, so we're going to sit down, watch the whole thing, and then
37:17
we'll cover it in one full episode next week.
37:21
And I'm, I'm ready because. I'm ready to.
37:24
I really miss Clone Wars and these are like as close as we're
37:26
going to get. So I know, and we're flipping
37:29
the table on Jedi. We're going Sith next week.
37:32
So it all works out the balance. Exactly.
37:36
Well, thank you so much for joining us here on the Most
37:39
Things Kenobi podcast. We appreciate every single one
37:42
of our patrons and are grateful for your support.
37:45
If you would like to support the podcast and become a patron,
37:48
head over to The Most Things Kenobi Patreon.
37:50
As always, you can follow us on Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, and
37:54
YouTube, and don't forget to subscribe on your favorite
37:56
podcast player. If you enjoy our podcast, feel
37:59
free to rate US on Spotify and Apple.
38:02
And if you need one place to find all of these, head over to
38:04
Most Things kenobi.com. So until next time, Myspace
38:09
Twin, may the Force be with you. Always.