Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Teen girl goes on high school trip, never seen alive again. Mom and Dad devastated. Natalee Holloway, NEW developments

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Teen girl goes on high school trip, never seen alive again. Mom and Dad devastated. Natalee Holloway, NEW developments · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Imagine pouring all your love, all your energy, your time,
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  Speaker 1: your money, your heart into raising your child, getting her
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: through high school with college ahead. She's an honor student.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Of course, she goes on your senior trip and she's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: never seen alive again. Of course, I'm talking about the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Alabama brainy, beauty Natalie Holloway and in the last hours
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  Speaker 1: more developments. I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: you for being with us Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: This beautiful Alabama girl leaves on her senior trip to
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  Speaker 1: Aruba and disappears. Natalie and Holloway last scene driving away
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  Speaker 1: from a local nightclub as she was just away on
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  Speaker 1: her high school senior trip. She has disappeared. Three guys
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  Speaker 1: that escorted Natalie from a restaurant bar, Carlos and Charlie's
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  Speaker 1: her last night there on a room, but before she
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  Speaker 1: was supposed to leave the next morning. These are the
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  Speaker 1: guys she was last seen with. This statement that the
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  Speaker 1: boy Van der Slute says, I took her down to
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  Speaker 1: the beach. It was around two am and she wanted
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to stay there, so I left her there alone. This girl,
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  Speaker 1: a teen girl, beautiful, brilliant. You know everyone still has
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  Speaker 1: in their mind the picture of her out on a
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  Speaker 1: football field and her drill outfit doing a dance routine
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  Speaker 1: with all of her friends. Her body never recovered, her
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: whereabouts never known. The latest in the search for Natalie Holloway.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nitzy Grays. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel starting
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: with Rahul Munchonda, attorney, international law expert, author of Deep State,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Defector Who Can Find It? Munchonda Hyphenlaw dot Com. Steve Lampley, detective,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door, Stephen Lampley dot com, psychoanalyst
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: joining us out of LA doctor Bethany Marshall at Doctor
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Beer Bones Consulting. But right now to wc IV ABC
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  Speaker 1: four Charleston reporter Ann Emerson, and the pain of Natalie's
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  Speaker 1: disappearance never goes away and if anyone is expecting yourn Vanderslute,
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  Speaker 1: a two time killer, the judge's son who got special
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: treatment in Aruba because his dad's judge. To ever tell
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: what happened to Natalie, that ain't gonna happen, Anne Emerson, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: this case is just transfixed America, the media, anyone who
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: could relate to this. It was the idea of losing
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  Speaker 1: your child on a senior trip as they're just about
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  Speaker 1: to embark on their whole life. It was just it
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  Speaker 1: was more than anyone in America could even bear at
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  Speaker 1: the time, and we all felt like we were part
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  Speaker 1: of these parents search for this child. It was unbelievable
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  Speaker 1: that just one every step they took trying to get
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: this investigation underway, it was on some level impeded, as
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  Speaker 1: he said, because he had special privileges on the island,
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  Speaker 1: and confusing, and it was it was just like unwrapping
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  Speaker 1: this really really complicated package that we're still unpacking. For
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  Speaker 1: those of you that recall the disappearance on Natalie Holloway,
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  Speaker 1: the America girl straight as student athlete set to go
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  Speaker 1: to college to study pre med goes missing on our
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: high school senior trip that was heavily chapera. Take a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: listen to our friend Rick Sanchez, Natalie, you can reach
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: me on your cell phone and it's set up for
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: international use now and I will stay here until I
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  Speaker 1: find you. Natalie. A mother's desperate plea for her missing
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  Speaker 1: daughter Natalie Holloway was among more than a hundred seniors
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  Speaker 1: on a graduation trip to a Ruba. They're just typical
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  Speaker 1: high school girls out on the beach, on the beach,
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  Speaker 1: having a good time on their senior trip. There's nothing unusual.
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  Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of kids go on senior trips every
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  Speaker 1: summer and they should. I mean, these are these kids
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  Speaker 1: are growing up. Marcia Twitty is Natalie's aunt. She says
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  Speaker 1: nobody seemed to notice that when the friends left the nightclub,
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  Speaker 1: Natalie wasn't with them. Everybody thought everybody had each other
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  Speaker 1: because there's a bunch of them, a bunch. It wasn't,
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  Speaker 1: you know, twenty or so. There's a whole bunch of kids,
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  Speaker 1: and they all kind of, you know, went in with
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  Speaker 1: the bed that night. It wasn't until people started waking
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  Speaker 1: up Monday morning ready to return to Birmingham that they
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  Speaker 1: realized she was missing. And of course, practically one year
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to the day later, another young girl and dad at
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  Speaker 1: the hands of yourn Vander salute Stephanie Tassiana Flora ass
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  Speaker 1: a gorgeous young girl, meets him into casino. By the
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  Speaker 1: time he's done with her, she's dead and the floor
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  Speaker 1: of his hotel room. He even goes out for coffee
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  Speaker 1: in a Danish and comes back to the room and
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  Speaker 1: drinks the coffee and eats the Danish about two feet
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  Speaker 1: away from her dead body on the floor. But how
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: did Natalie Holloway seemingly slip through everyone's fingers? Take a
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: listen to her friend Francis. Natalie's friend, Francis was staying
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: in an adjacent room. What do you feel like Monday
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: morning when you guys were all getting ready to go
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  Speaker 1: and you realize that she wasn't around. We immediately knew
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: something was wrong because her roommates knocked on my door
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  Speaker 1: and said that they didn't know where she was. We
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: went straight to the chaperones and they immediately started working
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  Speaker 1: on it. They suspected Natalie was still on the island
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  Speaker 1: because in her room they found her luggage, found her
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  Speaker 1: passport right, but no Natalie. Aruban authorities have been joined
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  Speaker 1: by the FBI in the search. So far, that has
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: been little to go on. Three Eruben students did tell investigators, though,
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  Speaker 1: that they dropped Natalie off that night at her hotel,
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  Speaker 1: But something about that story doesn't sit right with Natalie's aunt. Well,
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  Speaker 1: it certainly didn't sit right, and that story quickly changed.
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  Speaker 1: Right now we know yourn Vanderslute is sitting in a
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  Speaker 1: jail in Peru for the murder of Stephanie Tasciana Flores,
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  Speaker 1: another young girl he killed. I believe to the day
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  Speaker 1: that Natalie goes missing. Joining me, Raul D. Manchanda attorney,
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  Speaker 1: international law expert, author of a book series, Deep State
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  Speaker 1: Defector Roll thank you again for being with us. Explain
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  Speaker 1: to me the legal mechanics about how yourn Vanderslut can
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  Speaker 1: ever be brought to justice for Natalie's murder. In this
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  Speaker 1: case was a hallmark case in the sense of international law,
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  Speaker 1: and it kind of held up foreign investigatory bodies to
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  Speaker 1: a scrutiny and the standard maintained by the US. The FBI,
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  Speaker 1: for example, Secret Service had gotten involved because they were
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  Speaker 1: so frustrated with the relative slowness and laxity of the
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  Speaker 1: local Uruban investigation. And I really believe in retrospect, Hindsite,
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  Speaker 1: that all the stuff that happened the Peruvian angle, you know,
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  Speaker 1: all these other issues really are sort of an offshoot
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  Speaker 1: of the you know, really lack of ability in the
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  Speaker 1: first forty eight as they would say, to really get
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  Speaker 1: a handle on this case. It seemed to me that
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  Speaker 1: this you know, like you said, there was issues about
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the judge being his father, there was corruption issues, maybe
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  Speaker 1: assistance by local police departments or investigatory bodies, and this
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  Speaker 1: case really just ran away from the local investigations. And
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: now look at where we are. I mean, he's sitting
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  Speaker 1: in Peru, you know, in a jail. Another other woman
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  Speaker 1: has been you know, murdered because of this. So this
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  Speaker 1: guy really needed to be dealt with in the first
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  Speaker 1: forty eight especially the evidence. So remember back then we
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  Speaker 1: had discussed this um. The other issue is, you know,
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  Speaker 1: in terms of extradition to the US, if there's a
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  Speaker 1: nexus to the United States, which there seems like there
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  Speaker 1: is with this extortion money, which he you know, he
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  Speaker 1: received the money and then now spending it, would that
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  Speaker 1: would be enough for a personal and subject matter of
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  Speaker 1: jurisdiction and in which case, I mean, if there's enough
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: energy behind it, they could issue a warrant. And I
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  Speaker 1: think that that actually did take place. So there is
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  Speaker 1: certainly enough of a jurisdictional nexus between the United States
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: and the individual as well the crime that took place,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: because there is a sufficient nexus there, So we need
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: to be a stretch. What Royal de Manshonda is talking about,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: renowned attorney and author of a book series Deep State Defector,
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  Speaker 1: is for instance, let's just use Jackie Howard again, who's
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: here in the studio looking guilty about something. Let's just
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: pretend she robs a gas station in Pennsylvania and then
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  Speaker 1: leaves the state she was just pretend end is a
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  Speaker 1: citizen of California. Can Pennsylvania drag her back to be tried. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: they can, because there's subject matter jurisdiction. They have a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: right to prosecute crimes that happen in Pennsylvania. The subject
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: would be the armed robbery. Personal jurisdiction would be can
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  Speaker 1: they make her comeback? Can they extradite her back? Yes,
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  Speaker 1: because she has sufficient contacts in Pennsylvania and that she
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: went there and robbed a gas station. I'm pretty sure
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  Speaker 1: that was you, Jackie Howard. So that's what Rollman China
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  Speaker 1: is talking about, that the US could conceivably extradite You're
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: in Vanderslup. So in that line of reasoning, under a
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: very very famous case International Shoe, which went all the
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  Speaker 1: way to the the US Supreme Court, there are sufficient contacts
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  Speaker 1: for your in Vanderslout to come back to the US
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  Speaker 1: and be tried in connection with Natalie's death. He to
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  Speaker 1: US citizen, and it would have to be proven he
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  Speaker 1: had enough contacts in the US to do it. Time
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace to Chingasaus, who has been in
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the prison where Vanderslut was housed. How is it that
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  Speaker 1: your Vanderslut has managed to have constical visits behind bars,
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  Speaker 1: get a woman pregnant and now they're marrying. You know, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: when I was in Castro Castro, the prison environment, the
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  Speaker 1: prison rules and regulations, they are so different. Their philosophy
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  Speaker 1: is you keep the crime outside, you build a new
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  Speaker 1: life literally right at this point inside. And so there
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  Speaker 1: are conjugal visits they can have that families can bring
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  Speaker 1: in homemade food. They wear their street clothes in the prison.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, I happen to see some knives come out
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  Speaker 1: of those street clothes they're walking around in there. But
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  Speaker 1: it's just a totally different environment. So this is this
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  Speaker 1: is not unexpect You are listening to HLM to Ann Emerson,
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  Speaker 1: did we c iv ABC for Charleston Reporter and tell
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  Speaker 1: me about your Vandersut's life behind bars in Peru. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, he has m been public in some ways.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's he said that he was
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  Speaker 1: in a prison when he first got put into prison
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  Speaker 1: for killing this woman, Stephanie Floras, this young twenty one
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  Speaker 1: year old that he had confessed to killing. He said
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  Speaker 1: that the prison official at the original prison had him
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  Speaker 1: moved to even Um, a more maximum security prison higher
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  Speaker 1: up in the Andes. Uh. He also said that he
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  Speaker 1: had a cell phone from one of the prison officials.
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  Speaker 1: So you we've seen pictures of him. Well, hold on,
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  Speaker 1: an Emerson, it can't be that maximum security because he
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  Speaker 1: got somebody pregnant. He was in jail. You're absolutely right.
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  Speaker 1: And this woman, from what I understand, she was coming
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  Speaker 1: into the prisons selling goods. Is the way it was
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  Speaker 1: described and reported. This was a woman who had been
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: coming in and selling things to officials, I suppose guards,
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  Speaker 1: the and and somehow she was able to get close
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: enough contact to have a relationship with the Anderslute. Well
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, Ann Emerson joining me WCIVABC for Charleston.
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  Speaker 1: What was she selling to people behind bars? Because you
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: know it wasn't just a jail officials. There's probably to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: anybody that could afford it. Well, what we what we've
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: been been reported so far is that it was just
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: uh thing. This was a woman who was, for all
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: intensive purposes allowed to be in that prison. And because
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: we know who she is and she hasn't been arrested
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: for being in that prison, so obviously it was under
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the prisoners the guards request that she was there. But
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  Speaker 1: what we do know is that she has now said
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  Speaker 1: that she got pregnant and they got married in twenty fourteen.
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  Speaker 1: They even from what I understand, Mary, the name of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the child is, she's named after You're in Vanderslute's grandmother.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we just heardman trying to state that your
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Banderslute got an extortion money. What's he talking about, Ann
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Emerson extortion money? Well, what happened was he had contacted
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: a lawyer, uh from Best Holloway Twitty. She was remarried
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and Best Twitty would had contacted a lawyer on her
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: side and had said that he had information. Now this
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is when he was in a Ruba and when he
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: wanted to uh, he wanted to give them the where
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: their daughter's remains were. He said he knew where her
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: remains were and for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: that information could be theirs. Uh so, but I don't
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: think at any point the mother was looking to get
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: some to get the truth out of him, because he
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: had been so untruthful all of these years. It was
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: just lie after lie. This is about actually trying to
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: catch your in Vanderslute, and get him and bring him
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: to justice. And this extortion plan was walks that just
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: going all the way with the FBI, trying to make
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: sure that they got him. Now we're talking about two
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She actually did a test
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: about the wire that he asked for to transform money,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and she spent out. She just sent one hundred dollars
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to see if it actually worked, and it did, and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that sort of that was the catalyst to kind of
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: go into this whole wire fraud extortion scheme and esteem
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: with the FBI. They set it up. They got ten
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars to Vanderslute, They were transferring fifteen thousand dollars
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and that was the deal, twenty five thousand dollars ahead
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of time. Somehow Vanderslute gets the money and escapes Aruba
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: with best money. He's now on his way to another
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: our country and they don't have Vanderslute. And of course
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: now we know what he did with that money and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: where he ended up. So your Vanderslute with twenty five
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars from Beth Holloway twenty Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: joining me out of Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany, I will
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: never forget that painful interview where Beth travels to Peru
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: confronts and you know, everybody trashes Beth because cameras were rolling.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And you know what else, Doctor Bethany Marshall, A lot
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: of people trash Natalie's dad because he cooperated with Oxygen
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: to do a series on trying to find Natalie's remains.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's very, very hateful, and I'll tell you why.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: If your child was missing, you never had answers and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a network or producers come to you and say, hey,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: we will foot the bill for you to fly to
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Aruba or fly to Peru and confront your inventorsuit or
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to the dad, help us look for her remains. We've
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: got tips that her bones are in this location. Will
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: you do it? And we will put the bill for
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the investigation and flying you there, no matter how many
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: weeks it takes. What parent in their right mind wouldn't say, yes,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: of course I'll do it because of search like that
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: for her remains. Bethany, I can tell you gotta cost
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: five hundred grand to take him down there and stay
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: for you know, months on end, or however long it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: took to have a crew, a geologist, a boat captain, investigators.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: All that costs money, money that regular people don't have.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Same thing for flying beth all the way to Peru,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: getting her house at a hotel, getting her into the prison,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: all that, and I really I would do anything to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: get answers as my child was missing. I really hate
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the way people attack them, Bethany. Well, only that, Nancy.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Compound that with the fact that they probably had to
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: give up their jobs, They probably lost relationships within their
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: community because they couldn't keep in touch with friends. Their
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: whole life was organized around the search for their daughters.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: So you're right. A network approaches them says we will
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: foot the bill for you to go and find your daughter,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And of course they are going to expand their resources
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: in whatever way they can. Now add to that Nancy
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that she went to Peru and she faced John. I
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: remember the videotape. We covered it extensively on your show
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: on Hland and can you imagine losing Lucy or John
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: David and then you actually have to go stop, stop, stop, stop, Bethany.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Do you know as light as yesterday, I was doing
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: an interview and it was supposed to be about finding
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: missing children and solving on soft Thomas Eyson. Out of
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the blue, the reporter got on the martyr of my fiancee.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: And yes, I know it was a long time ago,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: but when you're not ready, you're not thinking about it,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: you're having a perfectly fine day, and somebody brings that up.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: And he brought it up in kind of a mean
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: way too. He said, you always say your fiancee's murder
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: was random, but it's been reported that, in fact, the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: killer worked at the same place as your fiance and
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: out of the blue, it's kind of an attack. And
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: there was more to it than that, by the way,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: But I said, yeah, yeah, this is what happened. I
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: was told by the prosecutor that Keith got his job
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: on a construction crew one summer, and shortly before Keith started.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: This guy that murdered him had been fired, so he
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and Keith never crossed pass. That's what I was told
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: by the prosecutor. And then one day the guy shows
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: up at the out in the middle of nowhere on
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a construction site and opens fire on the company truck
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and Keith was driving. That's how he was killed. So
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: they did not know each other, and he just confront
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: him about many facts surrounding Keith's murder. I finally quit
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the interviewed Bethany because it got me so upset. Now,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: how long is that? That That was in nineteen seventy nine.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Now can you imagine beth confronting your vander Salute and
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: getting nothing by the way his usual lies, and the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: dad going to Aruba with oxygen and going through all that,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: finding the location where the bones allegedly we're finding bones,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: finding remains and thinking oh maybe, maybe maybe, and then
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the test and then it's negative. Those people have been
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: through hell. Bethany empty because of false hope. Again and again.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, this beautif full Alabama girl
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: leaves on her senior trip to Aruba and disappears. Natalie
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and Holloway last scene driving away from a local nightclub
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: as she was just away on her high school senior trip.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: She has disappeared. Three guys that escorted Natalie from a
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: restaurant bar, Carlos and Charlie's her last night. They're on
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Aruba before she was supposed to leave the next morning.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: These are the guys she was last seen with. His
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: statement that the boy van der Slute says I took
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: her down to the beach. It was around two am
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and she wanted to stay there, so I left her
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: there alone. Stephen Lampley, Roola Menchanda said something really important.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: He said a lot of important things, but he also
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: said the case was screwed up with Natalie in the
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: first forty eight Explain what Roola men Shanda, who's an
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: international law expert, was talking about forty eight that that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: is the most important time frame for any investigation, and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it's just it's sort of like the Golden hour MTS.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It's just the time frame that we want to be
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: fully active. We want to put out all the resources
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and we want to try to find everything we can
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: in the first forty eight hours because it's just the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: matter of life. After forty eight hours, the propensity to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: solve the crime, lessons with every hour thereafter, And to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert, the founder of Beer Bones, consulting
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Karen Smith to this day, we don't really know what
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: happened to Allie Holloway. Ultimately, you're in Vanderslute changed his story.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: There was a wire put in an suv he was in,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and he's of course speaking in Dutch, the language at
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Neville and Antilles, including Aruba, and he basically said she
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: started foaming at the mouth and shaking, and she died
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: on the beach. He said he rejected sex with her
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and just left. That's base generally. I mean, he's told
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: so many different stories. I may be crossing the wires.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: But will we ever really? No, we can't count on anything.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Vanderslout says, First of all, you think he would say
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: no to sex with Natalie Holloway. No, I firmly believe
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: he slipped something in her drink at Carlost and Charlie's.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: She had never left before with unknown men ever in
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: her life. She's just a kid. And I think that
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: she was killed or died on the beach and that
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: he raped her. Listen, that's a completely plausible explanation and yourn.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Vanderslout has given story after story and false lead after
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: false lead. He was toying with police and he continues
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: too to this day. You know, Natalie Holloway, I don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: know that her remains will ever be found. At this point,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: it's been almost fifteen years. Aruba is a very small
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: island off the coast of Venezuela. It's only twenty miles
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: long by six miles wide in United States peak, that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: is a relatively small area for a search. You have it, obviously,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: it's an island. It's surrounded by beaches, surrounded by water,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: so there is a lot of ground to cover. But
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: like Stephen Lampley and Raoul said, the first forty eight
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: were critical. I'm not going to say any ball was dropped.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I know that they used a lot of resources to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: try and find her. But what really frustrates me is
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that you have this American student who goes missing.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say eight to twelve hours passes before
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: they realize that she's missing, and then all of the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: resources that were put toward her search. I don't know
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that they went to the areas that were accessible by car,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: where they accessible on foot. We don't know if you
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: were in. Vandersloot was telling the truth that he was
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: with these two other men and they drove somewhere or
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: did they walk somewhere, So that whole pattern of a
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: search area, I don't know how that was worked from
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the beginning. Well, we know they left. Let's go to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Ann Emerson w CIV ABC for Charleston and again thanks
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: for being with us. And they left carloson Charlie's and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: a small car and Jorn Vanderslut was with Natalie Holloway
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: and two other guys, the Calpo brothers, and that's the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: last she was seeing alive and Emerson. What have been
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Jorn Vanderslout's changing stories over time? You know, he has
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: been moving these stories according to what seems to suit him.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: He has claimed that that she well, let's let's start
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: where where he where? He said he started at the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: very beginning, Nancy, and it's the first time we hear
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: from him. He told investigators that he dropped her off
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: at the hotel and that she had stumbled back when
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: she was getting out of the car, and that two
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: men that were dressed in what he thought were security
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: guards uniforms helped her up, but he had just left her.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: He saw her sort of stumble out of the car
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: and he drove off with his two buddies who were brothers.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Oh and I remember, don't you remember? I remember this though,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I like it was yesterday. Ro Manshonda that the security
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: guards first came under suspicion, just like Ann Emerson is saying,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: because Jorn Vanderslout said they helped her, she was last
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: spotted with them. They came under suspicion. Remember that there
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: could have been innocent people going to jail. And everybody's
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: saying the authorities helped. The authorities did not help. They
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: didn't do a darned thing in a Ruba's right. That's right,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And that's goes to what we talked about earlier that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: just too much time was given, too many stories were vetted,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: too many It was just trial and error, and you
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: got that judge kind of ring leading the whole thing,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you know, and these investigators, who do you think they're
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: beholden to? You think they're beholden to the foreign media,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: foreign long person. Now they're they're beholding to the power
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: struck of that particular island, which is extremely small and
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: close knit, and so everyone's got a finger in their pockets,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and everyone's got you know, everyone's talking for each other,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: and the stories are getting vetted and revetted and change
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it over again, and absolutely a disastrous investigation. And that
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: was what we were talking about when it first happened,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and this is Look, look what's happened today.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: We've got a fruit of the Poison Street in a
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: sense of a terrible investigation, just out of control, just crazy.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: What happened? What went wrong with that investigation? Steve Lampley?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Where did it go wrong? I mean, of course it
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: started off wrong. Well, that's right, it did start off wrong,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and that pretty much set the stage for the rest
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: of the investigation. We go back to the first forty
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: eight Once you saw forty eight hours, you know, you
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: take what you get about at Karen Smith. If you
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: started Carlos and Charlie's where she was last seen. You
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: talk to the people that were there that night. Did
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you see her leave? Did you see who she was with? Yes,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: she was with three men. She got into a car.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Where did that car go? We're dealing with two thousand
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and five. There weren't cameras around like they're are now,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: can't we can't go anywhere without being on camera. In
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five, it wasn't like that, So you
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: would have to just take the investigation from Carlos and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Charlie's and branch out from there. You know, how long
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: was Yourn Vanderslout gone? How long were these other two
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: men gone? You can get a radius to start a
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: search all of those things. It seems like that ball
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: was just dropped from the get go Prime stories with
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace when you use this stunning to hear that
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: your on Vanderslout may have killed another young woman five
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: years to the day after the disappearance of Natalie Holloway.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Stephanie Flores was the only daughter in a family of
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: voice and she was truly her father's pride and joy.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Riccardo Flores is a well known figure in Peru. He's
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: a I'm a race car driver. He had been a politician.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Stephanie and her father had a very tight bond. She
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: wanted to be a businesswoman and an entrepreneur like her father,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and he fostered that they were cut from the same cloth,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and everybody in the family knew that. On June second,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: twenty ten, Stephanie Flores has been missing for three days.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Her distraught family has been searching everywhere, and then sadly,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: she is found dead by an employee in the hotel tap.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: You are listening to our friends at ABC five years
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: to the day after Natalie Holloway disappears, Van der Sleet
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Bludge and Stephanie Tassiana Flores to death an Alima hotel room.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: To Anne Emerson w CIV, ABC four Charleston, as I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: recall it, Stephanie met him. Beautiful brunette girl dad a
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: business person very well respected in the area, meets him
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: at a casino and they hit it off. They go
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: back to his hotel room for a few drinks. He
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: catches her online looking him up, and we believe she
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: questioned him, questioned about Natalie Holloway, and he bludgets her dead.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: That's basically what happened, probably raped her two, but that's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: what happened. As I recall to Stephanie Taciana Flora's Ann Emerson,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: what do you know? You know? And it's interesting because
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: there's also a theory that once again he was trying
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to flect the responsibility of this murder somewhere else. It's
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: considered the coffee. The coffee story is that he goes off.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Talked about this earlier. He had gone off to get
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, and he comes back with the coffee,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: but he says that he got locked out of his
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: room and he asked for somebody. Reportedly, he asked for
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: somebody at the front dusk to walk him back up
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: to the hotel room and led him in with the
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: idea that maybe suspicion could go in a different direction,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: right because something's already happened to Stephanie Laras in that
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: room and he knows it. But he but supposedly that
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: door doesn't open all the way and he doesn't get
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: his wish, so he just decides to move on and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: then ends up. We do get a confession from him.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: He says he does say that he killed her, but
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: he tries to take that back. He also tried to
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: take back that confession from what we understand from the judge,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: but the judge said it was valid and he was
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: gonna he was gonna stick to it. We are talking
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: about the disappearance of Natalie Holloway, who I firmly believe
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: has long been dead. There are many other investigations as
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: to whether she was sold into sex trafficking, whether she
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: was being held hostage. I don't think any of that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: is true. Rule de Manchanda joining me, international law expert,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: author of a book series Deep State Defense. What is
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: life like for him and that Peruvian prison. Well, you know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not gonna be great. But at the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: same time, you know, it is a South American situation,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: probably you know, in the outskirts of the country where
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of corruption. Rights of corruption is there
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: as opposed to an American federal or statement, which of
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: course obviously has its own But I'm sure out there,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: because his father was a judge, I'm sure his reach
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: goes pretty far in terms of administration. So I would
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: venture a guest and saying it's probably not as bad
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: as we all think it might be in terms of,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you know, the accouterments and what he might be getting
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: out there. I would assume that, you know, the father,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: being who he was, to have him shielded for so long,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't doubt it's a phone call to his men. However,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: there was the stories that the father of the girl
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that was murdered was very very angry. There was rumor mongering.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Of course, he's going on that the ten thousand dollars
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: reward was placed to have your inventage of murdered in prison. Now,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: whether or not that's true or not, the father has
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: denied that. Uh you know, well, we do know that
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: he's still alive and whining about life behind bars. But
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: he was laughing and grinning the last time that a
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: hidden camera interview went down. That was around two thousand
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and sixteen. The whining goes on. He has two roommates,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: but apparently he has a special area in his cell
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and he has more room than anyone else. He has books,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: he's married, He gets conjugal visits, he gets drugs and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: alcohol behind bars. I don't know how he does that.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: What do you know, Ann Emerson about his life behind bars?
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: What we're hearing is that he does have a very
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: lax situation at prison that you know, he's able to
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: get through. He's able to get food from home, he's
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: able to get clothes, he gets special favors. Like you said,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: he gets conjugal visits. Um he can. He gets straight
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: clothes from what we understand, which means that he doesn't
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: have to wear the same prison uniform. So just by
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: just those those things are making him stand out as
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: sort of perhaps like a celebrity prisoner. UM in a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: very different way as well. Um he is. He's also
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: on these international charges. I mean, we understand that he
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: is still facing um extradition after he serves his twenty
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: eight years sentence. UM he still has. But this gives
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: him a I would think, a level of celebrity status
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: within the prison um of who he is and what
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: he's done. He's just he's not just like every other prisoner.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: But and he is treated specially and he gets he
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: gets what he gets some special Um, it looks like
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: he's getting special treatment on some levels. UM, I hear you.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how special any of us would
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: consider it, though, to be up at the Alcatraz of
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the Andes, it's up in the Andes Mountains, it's it's cold,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and there may be in truth or what rool Manchanda
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: said that there's a hint on him placed by Stephanie Tauciano,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Flora's father because he apparently has been stabbed five times
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: behind bars and talk about lacks security. Doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: What I wonder about very often is how the parents,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: how Beth and mister Holloway go on? How do they
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: do it? Bethany? Well, what I'm struck by is excuse me.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: What I'm struck by is that they are still observing
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Jordan Vanderslute's offending pattern. Think about it. He was sort
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of the big man on campus in this very small island, right,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and he probably refined his offending pattern very early. All
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: these girls would come over on spring break. He would
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: apply them with alcohol, date rape drugs, rape them, and
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: he had probably been doing this for a number of years,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: even though he was just a teenager. Natalie was just
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the first one who died. There were victims who came before. Then,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: a year after Natalie's death, he bludgeons Stephanie Floris to death.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Where did he meet her? In a casino? What did
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he do? Probably applied her with drinks, brought her back
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: to the room. So the offending pattern continues. Now, The
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: ascending pattern continues behind bars. He targets the woman who
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: comes in to sell goods to the other inmates, and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: he's procuring goods for her from her, has conjugal bit
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: visits has sex as able to take her back to
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the whole as they call it, or wherever his room is.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: So as a parent, I mean to speak to your question,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: there would be so many conflicting feelings, you know, grief, loss, rage,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: having to witness this travesty again and again. But what
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: did they think about this young woman behind bars who's pregnant.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, did you see her picture. She's very young,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: she's about twenty four years old. She's an accounting assistant,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: so obviously she has some sort of an education. What
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: if he bludgeons her to death? What if she's connects victims?
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: So I think what's probably difficult for them is that
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: the saga continues. It's never ever over. On an interesting thing,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: now that he has had a baby with a Peruvian citizen,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: he can fight extradition. They don't have to just hand
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: him over because he can be a Peruvian citizen before
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: he got Before he gets that citizenship, that formal citizenship,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: they'll get rid of him, kick him out, happy to
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: get rid of him. But once he becomes a citizen,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it will be a lot harder for him to get
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: extradited to the US. We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,