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I Stole Millions From My Celebrity Clients with Jonathan Todd Schwartz · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

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  Speaker 3: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
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  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald.
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  Speaker 1: Juicy Scoop.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Okay, I am very
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: excited to talk to my guest. He has a very
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  Speaker 2: juicy life story. Welcome, Jonathan Todd Schwartz. We're going to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: get all into it, but you were a financial manager
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  Speaker 2: for huge celebrities in L.A. in which you went to
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  Speaker 2: prison for stealing from them and to support a drug habit.
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  Speaker 2: And really, your redemption story today... Part of it being
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: on Juicy Scoop. But yeah, like just tell me a
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  Speaker 2: little bit because I'm so intrigued when I was pitched
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: your story. I was like, yeah, I want to know
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: about this. So like you're a good looking guy. You know,
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  Speaker 2: what was your background in college? How did you get
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  Speaker 2: into financial management of celebrities?
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  Speaker 4: Great question. So going to college, I knew I always
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: wanted to be an accountant. a CPA because I had
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  Speaker 4: seven cousins in my family that were CPAs. And frankly,
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  Speaker 4: that was probably the only subject that I was good
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  Speaker 4: at in school, both in high school and college. But
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  Speaker 4: I really loved numbers.
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  Speaker 2: Where did you grow up?
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  Speaker 4: I grew up in upstate New York, the Catskill Mountains,
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  Speaker 4: where there are a lot of comedians.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 4: At least when I was growing up.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 4: So when I graduated college, one of my cousins at
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  Speaker 4: the time was a preeminent music entertainment business manager. His
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  Speaker 4: specialization was touring and royalties and whatnot. And so I
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  Speaker 4: called him when I graduated college and I said, cuz,
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  Speaker 4: I'm ready to come work for you. He said, no,
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  Speaker 4: you're not. You're immature, you're irresponsible. What do you know
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  Speaker 4: about business management? I want you to work for an
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  Speaker 4: accounting firm so that you can hone your analytical skills.
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  Speaker 4: And when I think you're ready, I'll give you a call.
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  Speaker 4: So fast forward three and a half years, I got
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  Speaker 4: a job working in the financial district of San Francisco
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  Speaker 4: for a sole practitioner CPA. I did learn a lot.
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  Speaker 4: In hindsight, his suggestion, his advice was well worth it.
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  Speaker 4: In 1995, he called me and he said, you're ready
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: to come work for me. At this time, I was
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  Speaker 4: married to my high school sweetheart. I had the first
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  Speaker 4: of my three beautiful sons and we were living in
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  Speaker 4: San Francisco. So we just got in our little Honda
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  Speaker 4: Accord and we drove down south and this was my
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  Speaker 4: entree into the entertainment world. You know, I was the
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  Speaker 4: first one in the office, the last one to leave
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: because I didn't want nepotism associated with me. I worked
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  Speaker 4: really hard. I didn't get paid very well. But for me,
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  Speaker 4: I viewed it as an opportunity to learn from my
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  Speaker 4: cousin who I really respected at that time. I was
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  Speaker 4: like a pseudo mentor. And it's like, instead of, you know,
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  Speaker 4: absent learning from him, I'd have to go to grad
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: school and take out a FAFSA loan. So Getting paid
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  Speaker 4: something was nice. And that's how I got started in
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  Speaker 4: the business.
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  Speaker 2: And so when you were there with your young family
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  Speaker 2: in the late 90s and you're living in L.A., so
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  Speaker 2: were you at all fascinated by the entertainment industry? Because
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  Speaker 2: you're on this kind of like drier side of it
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  Speaker 2: working in business. Like were you going to parties? What
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  Speaker 2: was that culture shock like?
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  Speaker 4: So I wasn't enamored by it. at all, even initially.
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  Speaker 4: In 1999, my cousin's firm was acquired by Chase Manhattan Bank,
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  Speaker 4: now known as J.P. Morgan. And he asked me if
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  Speaker 4: I wanted to get into family wealth management investment banking.
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  Speaker 4: I said, cuz, I love you. Thank you for the
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  Speaker 4: opportunity you afforded me and the family. But I want to,
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  Speaker 4: if I can, may I have your blessing to take
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  Speaker 4: a small book of business and join another firm. So
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: in February of 2000, he had previously given me his
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  Speaker 4: blessing and I joined GSO Business Management, not as a
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  Speaker 4: business management partner, but just as a business manager, still young.
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  Speaker 4: And there became a time in 2000, sometime toward the
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  Speaker 4: middle of 2000, where a band called Linkin Park was
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  Speaker 4: looking for business managers. And so my former partner, Michael Oppenheim,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: may he rest in peace, he passed away a couple
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: years ago. And he was my favorite partner and someone
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  Speaker 4: whom I absolutely adored and looked up to and and
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  Speaker 4: hurt very much by my later poor choices we'll learn about.
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  Speaker 4: But they signed with us, and that was like my
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  Speaker 4: crossroad into like A-level clients. Prior to that, I had,
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  Speaker 4: I would say, like B-level because I was still young
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  Speaker 4: in the business, and you have to earn that within
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  Speaker 4: the industry.
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  Speaker 2: Now, I have never had a business manager. You know,
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  Speaker 2: my husband and I, we handle our own things. But
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  Speaker 2: if I didn't have my husband... I probably would have
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  Speaker 2: wanted one to have one because there's just so much
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  Speaker 2: that goes into making sure that you set up things
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  Speaker 2: right and, you know, pay the taxes right and everything.
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  Speaker 2: But hearing that people give this power to people and
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  Speaker 2: then they take advantage of them or they find out
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  Speaker 2: they never filed taxes for them or whatever the case
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  Speaker 2: might be, it happens a lot. So like how does
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  Speaker 2: it really work? If, if back in the day you
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  Speaker 2: were going to work for me, is it like you
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  Speaker 2: pay my mortgage, you pay everything, every check goes to you.
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  Speaker 2: And I just, I either can check it or I
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  Speaker 2: can just trust that, Hey, can I afford this portion?
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  Speaker 2: Then you say yes or no. Or like, how does
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  Speaker 2: it work?
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  Speaker 4: It works just like that. At least it did when
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  Speaker 4: I was in the business, right? I'm hoping there are
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  Speaker 4: stronger internal controls today in the industry. I'm not connected
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  Speaker 4: to the industry anymore. So, um, But what I would
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  Speaker 4: recommend to your listeners is there should be dual signatures
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  Speaker 4: on checks. Your business manager has power of attorney or
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  Speaker 4: has power of attorney. That's how I eventually started making
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  Speaker 4: those poor choices because I had power of attorney. But
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  Speaker 4: had there been stronger internal controls, such as like a
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  Speaker 4: second signatory over a certain threshold.
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  Speaker 2: Like over like $ 10, 000.
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  Speaker 4: You know, the client signs it along with the partner.
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  Speaker 4: And now you have safeguards in place. There were no
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  Speaker 4: safeguards in place. Unfortunately, there were no safeguards in place.
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  Speaker 2: And I mean, you're working with traveling musicians that are artists. So,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm guessing this is kind of an easy
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  Speaker 2: way to start to swipe. So where do you go
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  Speaker 2: from being legit and doing everything right to just like
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  Speaker 2: when was the first time you just were like, well,
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  Speaker 2: they're not going to miss this? Like what was the
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  Speaker 2: first time? indiscretion that you made as their manager?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say so. In 2000, like I said earlier,
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  Speaker 4: when I joined this firm, shortly after a few years
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  Speaker 4: go by, three, four years, I become a partner. So
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  Speaker 4: now I'm building a really solid book of business. And frankly,
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  Speaker 4: I owe it to Linkin Park because I was that
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  Speaker 4: client where everyone kept saying, how these guys are amazing.
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  Speaker 4: I had a big ego back then, yes. And at
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  Speaker 4: the same time, I was humble to not take credit
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  Speaker 4: for an artist's success or even think that I was
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  Speaker 4: in the entertainment space because I wasn't.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You're not booking them at the form. You're just collecting
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  Speaker 2: the checks and making sure they get paid on time.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're doing the risk management with insurance. We're doing
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  Speaker 4: their tour accounting, their royalty accounting. The bookkeepers are paying
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  Speaker 4: their bills and collecting income. And ultimately, I'm responsible when
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  Speaker 4: they go on tour for presenting them with a tour budget.
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  Speaker 4: And does that meet their expectation with respect to the
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  Speaker 4: profit margin?
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 4: And if it does, great. If it doesn't, then I
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  Speaker 4: need to modify it for them. But I never got
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  Speaker 4: enamored to your original question you asked in the beginning
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  Speaker 4: by celebrities. So we represented music clients, film, TV, and
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  Speaker 4: professional athletes. And to be honest, I viewed it like
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  Speaker 4: they put socks and shoes on the same way you
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  Speaker 4: and I do. And that's what I think did help
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  Speaker 4: me get a lot of the clients because they knew
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  Speaker 4: I was not enamored by them. I treated them like
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  Speaker 4: I would treat anybody else. I also shared with them
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  Speaker 4: at You know, I'm not a yes business manager. So
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  Speaker 4: if you're going to ask me in your example earlier
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  Speaker 4: if you can afford a Porsche, I'm going to say
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  Speaker 4: no if you can't. And I'm also going to back
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  Speaker 4: it up with evidence to support that. So I was
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  Speaker 4: never enamored by it. The crossroad came in my career
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  Speaker 4: probably about 10 years into my 20-plus year career. Around 2009, 2010,
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  Speaker 4: I was coaching my kids' youth sports teams in Agora Hills.
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  Speaker 4: And I met this assistant coach, and he said, do
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  Speaker 4: you want to place a bet? And I said, sure,
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  Speaker 4: I'll place a bet. I love sports. So I placed
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  Speaker 4: a small.
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  Speaker 2: Bet, and that bet— Like on, like, an NFL game
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  Speaker 2: or something?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was a sports bettor.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: So I bet on— I mean, I was a degenerate gambler.
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  Speaker 2: And did really— prior to that, you weren't into gambling?
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  Speaker 4: I gambled twice prior to that in, like, sort of
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  Speaker 4: like a binge, but not in moderation.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: I was not considered a composer.
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  Speaker 2: So how much were you betting?
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  Speaker 4: At this point in time, when the gentleman, the assistant coach,
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  Speaker 4: asked me, that's actually too nice of a comment to call.
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  Speaker 4: him a gentleman. When this, you know what I would
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  Speaker 4: like to say, asked me to place that first bet,
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  Speaker 4: it was small bets. It was like $ 50 to $ 100.
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  Speaker 4: Call it on day one of a seven-day week. But
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  Speaker 4: by the end of the week, it became $ 50, 000 bets
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  Speaker 4: or this type of bet. And now I had to
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  Speaker 4: make a decision. Because.
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  Speaker 2: So with a gambling addiction, it's the high of, because
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  Speaker 2: at one time you did get $ 50, 000. Rarely. So you
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  Speaker 2: couldn't limit yourself. Like, you know, when we go gamble
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: at a casino or whatever, it's always like, okay, we
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: took out $ 300 to $ 500. When we're done with that,
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  Speaker 2: we're done. But obviously with an addiction, you can't set
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the limits. Just like an alcohol addiction where you're like, yeah,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to have more than three drinks, you know?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so my father left me when I was four
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  Speaker 4: and he was a gambling addict, a cocaine addict, and
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  Speaker 4: made some poor choices and I never really wanted to
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  Speaker 4: be like him. But now as a therapist, I understand
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: and I don't use this as an excuse at all.
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  Speaker 4: In fact, I own all the mistakes that I make
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  Speaker 4: and I really believe in taking personal accountability. But there's
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  Speaker 4: evidence-based literature that supports that someone who's experienced childhood-type trauma
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: can carry that into adolescence and adulthood and There's that
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  Speaker 4: disease component of addiction. So I believe addiction is both
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  Speaker 4: a disease and a choice. So the disease is that
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  Speaker 4: it was transmitted, let's say, likely from my father to me.
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  Speaker 4: The choice became my choice, right? So I don't blame
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: it on the disease. I blame it on my poor
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  Speaker 4: choices when I became addicted to gambling.
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  Speaker 2: So that was the first thing you became addicted. Now,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: did your wife know?
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  Speaker 4: So for six years of my gambling run, I gambled
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  Speaker 4: literally every day on sports.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And at that time, is it your own money or
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: are you starting to dip into the business money, the account, the, the,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you know, your clients?
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  Speaker 4: So the first time I took money from Atlantis was
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: the first time, was that moment where I decided I
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: can take the money from myself because now I'm making
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: seven figures a year. We're doing really well. We have this, what,
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: you know, the American dream of a beautiful home in
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Agora Hills. The kids are, you know, we're going on vacations,
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  Speaker 4: but money never brought me happiness because now I'm starting
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: to gamble. And now I'm violating my client's fiduciary responsibility.
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  Speaker 4: So I should have taken it from my own bank
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  Speaker 4: account rather than, quote, unquote, borrow it or otherwise, the truth,
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  Speaker 4: stealing it with the intent.
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  Speaker 2: To pay it back. What was like the first time?
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  Speaker 2: And what did you tell yourself the first time you
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: did this, what you knew was wrong? What was the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: conversation that made you convince yourself to do this?
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: The conversation in my head using self-talk was I'm just
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: going to borrow this from Alanis for this week. And
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: how much was it? It was like $ 25, 000, week one losses.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: And then I'll pay her back next week. But pay
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: her back next week meant I'm going to gamble more
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: next week.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: And was it always sports games through a private bookie
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: or what?
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  Speaker 4: Yes, through a bookie who was that coach that I
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: mentioned earlier that until about after four years I realized
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: he was taking advantage of me because a bookie generally
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: collects 10% of your losses plus your loss, principal. He
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: was collecting not only that from me, but if I
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: ever won, which was rare, he would take 10% of
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: my winnings. But because the amount of money that I
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: was betting, hundreds of thousands of dollars now a day,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: no one else would take my bets. So I kind
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: of had the confidence.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: And how do you even do it? You call up
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: the person? How do you send the money to them?
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how this works.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: So what happened was now I have power of attorney, right?
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: So the sports world is Monday through Sunday. On Sunday
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: night and every night for six years, I can't sleep
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: because I know what I'm doing is outside.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And your wife has no clue.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Not only does my wife have no clue, I've shared
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: this with nobody.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And how were you sleeping at night?
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: I wasn't. So for six years, I struggled to sleep.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: I had to sometimes take sleeping aids. Nobody knew. I
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: hid this dark secret from everyone. I still hadn't dealt
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: with my childhood trauma. That was suppressed inside. I was
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: living in fear every day, and I was living a
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: double life. So to the outer world, I presented myself
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: as Superman, this conservative business manager wearing a suit every day.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: And the moment I would get home, I now want
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: to go and just cry. How could I do this?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I thought I had a moral compass. I have such
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: a great opportunity to provide for my family, yet here
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: I am as a degenerate gambler. And I hated gambling,
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: but I'm chasing it. because the mindset of a gambler
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: is one of grandiosity.
• 14:37
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  Speaker 5: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: the Emmys, and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: what would you do if it was given back?
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: started crying.
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: happens next.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: every day was.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: You're worth the work. Listen, Dar, I'm not going to
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: pull punches.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Now, there's been some stories in my years of just
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: being like a mom in the neighborhood where there'd be
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: like some juicy gossip of, oh, my God, now this
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: woman hates this woman because her husband's a secret bookie
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and she found out that he's betting through. Like, did
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: any of that happen where there were other guys in
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: your circle that were businessmen that were using these and
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: getting into a bad spot?
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: There were– And probably still are people in the entertainment
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: community who are embezzling money from clients.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Not just embezzling. I mean the betting part.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. There's always gamblers. There's many gamblers. But I
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: never associated with them because I isolated so that I
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: can keep this secret from everyone. Like literally nobody knew.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: So you just call the bookie guy and you're like,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I'm wiring you 50 grand to bet on this NFL game.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: No, it's worse than that. So Sunday night, now I
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: know how much I owe the bookie. For all the
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: loss from the previous week, Monday through Sunday. So now
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: I really can't sleep.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: You think maybe you weren't making good bets?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: There's just no way.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: It's obvious it's gambling. There's no way to know what
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the team, but I mean, aren't you kind of betting
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: on like the team because the players, this person or
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the odds or all that stuff?
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: So it's a good question. So I was, there's no
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: good gambler for starters, right? Inevitably, if you continue to gamble,
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: even if it's on one game a day, you're likely
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: going to lose. So let's just take the NFL Sunday,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: for example. Even though I bet on the NFL, college football, NBA, basketball, college, baseball,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I didn't just bet on one game. Let's say the
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: Rams against the Niners and pick the Rams. I'm making
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: this up. I picked not only who I thought was
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: going to cover the spread. I bet the over-under, which
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: is the total scores. I bet teasers, parlay. So I
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: had six, seven bets per game and every game on
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: the board. So there's no way to win. You can't
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: win that way. And clearly I did not win.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And so in doing all this, which I'm assuming is
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: also time consuming, you're still paying people's mortgages and stuff
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: for them at the business. But you've taken from Atlantis.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Are you taking from other people now too? But she
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't know because she's trusted you? Or how does that work?
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: So the irony, and I know her song is ironic,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: with Atlantis was when she was looking for business managers...
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: She interviewed, let's say, half a dozen, including me. The
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: reason she hired me is because I brought visual aids
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: to the meeting to present to her what I will
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: do for her. Here's what a tour budget looks like.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Here's what the personal budget looks like. Here's what your
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: portfolio looks like, even though we're not asset managers managing
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: your portfolio. We're the quarterback that sits with you and
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: directs the asset manager based on your wishes, how to
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: meet your expectations, so on and so forth. So she
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: hired me for that transparency. So now I'm taking from her.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Now every month I'm going to her house and I'm
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: showing her those same spreadsheets, except this time those spreadsheets
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: are not authentic, right? They're me kind of, not kind of,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: me kind of altering the Excel spreadsheets and making a
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: PDF out of it for her. And then afraid every
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: time I walk in there that she's going to ask
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: me for a source document, i.e. a bank statement, so
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: that she could reconcile on the statement to what I'm
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: presenting to her. And she didn't. And unfortunately, because I
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: wish she did, I would have been caught a lot sooner.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Or I wished I had asked for help, but I
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: never had the courage to ask for help.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So none of the other people working with you knew?
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: Nobody, not my former partners, not my employees, literally nobody
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: because I didn't want anybody to know.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And then besides her, how many other clients were you
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: also dipping into?
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: About four or five more a total of five, some
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: say six, I would say five.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And when does it all come crashing down?
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: So in 2015, early 16, I'm in Tampa Bay, Beyonce is.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Doing her rehearsals at the Raymond James Stadium in Tampa Bay.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And she's your client.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: She's my client for the Lemonade Tour. And I'm responsible
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: for her meeting the profit margins that we talked about earlier.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: And I get a call from my former partners. At
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: this point in the fourth quarter of 2015, Alanis fired me.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: And I became really careless. I just told the bookkeeper,
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: give her anything she wants. I'm not even going to
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: fix anything. I want to get caught at this point.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: And she fired you because she did realize there was
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: something funny going on? Or what did she realize to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: fire you?
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: What I've been told is when she originally fired me,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: she fired me because I wasn't giving her the attention
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: I once did.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So she didn't even know that.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Not yet.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: Not yet. And she's not wrong. I didn't give her
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: that attention because, to be honest, there were clients that
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: were more relevant at that time that needed more of
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: my time than, let's say, she did. And no disrespect
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: to her. I think she's incredible, but that's just the truth.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: But that's the way I always say that's the way
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it is with agents and managers, even if they're just
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: on the creative side, not a financial side. You know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: it's like anything else. It's kind of like a boyfriend.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: In the beginning, they're like trying to woo you and
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: they're really into you. And sometimes it is a marriage
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: and you're with them for 30 years. And sometimes after
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: three years, you're like, I need to get a new
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: boyfriend that's going to be excited about me again. So, yeah.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: Right. And yeah, so here I am in Tampa Bay
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: and my partners say, Alanis is asking, by the way,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Alanis went and hired my cousin's firm. So he left
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Chase Manhattan Bank.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Did she know you guys were cousins when she went
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: to him?
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: I was told she did. So she didn't use my cousin,
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: but she used his partner, Howard.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: But I thought that was another ironic thing in this
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: whole journey of mine. And they discovered that $ 4. 6 million
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: of the $ 7 million I embezzled was from Alanis.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: 4.6 million had gotten that high.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: And I never thought it got that high. That's how
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: naive I was.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: You weren't even doing the accounting on yourself.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: No, I was afraid to look. I was afraid to look.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: And then when I got the call and they said 4.6
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: in my mind, I'm like, 4.6? I'm thinking maybe a million.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: And even though a million is ridiculous.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: And so... I, of course, still had an ego when I.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Was— But while you're stealing from your clients, you're still
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: managing to pay all your personal bills and your mortgage
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and your whatever activities.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Right, because I'm not using my own money.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Right, okay.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: So the family continued to live that lifestyle.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: And how do you get paid from these clients?
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: So a lot of clients in business management, they pay
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: us a percentage, like 5% of gross. But if you're making,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: there are certain clients that were making just way too
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: much money and I would approach them and say, instead
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: of paying me 5% on gross dollars from all earnings,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: why don't we go to, let's say the first $ 10
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: million will be at 5%, the next 10 million would
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: be at 3.5% and then thereafter 1% in the calendar year.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So you're being great. You're cutting them a deal, but
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: you're also stealing from them.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Not all of them, but yes. To be fair. But yes,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: a handful of them I was. And I was obviously
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: completely wrong.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So they call you while you're at the Beyonce thing
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and they're like, what the fuck? Or what do they say?
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: How do they say it?
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Probably worse than what the fuck. But yeah, they said, Jonathan,
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Alanis is asking what this line item is of cash
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: withdrawals for $ 4. 6 million. $ 4. 6 million. So I immediately have
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: to– I'm in denial still, right?
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: By this time, I'm really heavy into cocaine as well.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Now, how did that start?
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: It started because I couldn't live like this anymore. I
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: couldn't live in fear in year six. I literally can't–
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I'm having psychosis from sleep deprivation. I'm not being present
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: for my kids. Like, I can't do this anymore.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: But when did you, like– Go from someone who, did
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: you ever, were you a casual drinker? Like what was
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: your experience with drug and drinking before you got into gambling?
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: So I was in college. We did, I did cocaine
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: maybe once a year when I'd go home to New
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: York where I'm from, from LA on business trips. I,
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: maybe I do it once a year. I could, at
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: that point I could do it in moderation, but now
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: I'm having suicidal ideation. I'm really starting to like, think
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: about like, how am I going to get through this?
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: I'm going to inevitably hurt my lovely wife, my children,
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: my mother, who's battling stage four lung cancer at this time,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: my partners, the employees, the whole entertainment community, the community
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: of Agourios. I'm hurting countless people. I don't want to
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: live anymore. And then I was just able to identify
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: reasons to live. But I would start, and I have
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: heart disease. So I would now, how I got started
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: on the cocaine is that my assistant, I asked her
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: what she did one night. And she said, I was
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: out with a girlfriend at a restaurant. And this waitress
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: asked her and I if I want to do cocaine.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: And she said, we don't. But ultimately, they went to
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: the bathroom with this waitress and they did cocaine. I said,
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: this is great. Can you please give me her number?
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: I'd like to start doing cocaine.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Is that what you say to your assistant? Absolutely.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: No, I surely did.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: You didn't even try to go around it. You're just like, oh,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I'd like to get some coke for myself.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: We were friends, too.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And she didn't think it was anything bad. She's like, oh, sure. Yeah,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: if you want, I'll hook you up, like casual, thinking
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that you wouldn't get addicted, thinking like you just want
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: to have like a fun Saturday night over the top
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: once in a blue moon.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: That's right. So now I'm doing it 24-7.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And getting it always from that waitress or other people?
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was terrible cocaine. I didn't know good
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: from bad, so it was terrible cocaine filled with chemicals.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: But I needed that rush. I needed to numb myself
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: to get away from the horrific things that I was doing.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: And so with this heart disease, I would wake up
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: with my sheets soaked at night in the morning.
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: Of sweat.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Sweat, heart racing, and that's why the experts believe I
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: was trying to hurt myself.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And now in this time with your wife, are you,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: is there any infidelity? Are you also doing, okay, tell
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: me about that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: Yes. Unfortunately, part of my many poor choices was because
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: I was so insecure on the inside from my childhood trauma,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: but yet presenting myself with high reasonable self-esteem. Deep down inside,
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: I didn't feel good about myself. And that was even
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: before the gambling, just my entire life. So I'm 55
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: years old now. At this point in time, I was
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: like 46 and hadn't dealt with my trauma. And so
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: because of those insecurities and everything, I sought out, I
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: didn't seek out, but there were about three, I had
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: like two or three affairs.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And who were, and don't tell me who they were,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: their names, but like, are they other moms? Are they
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: younger women? Like what kind of women would you, and
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: would they approach you or would you kind of like
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: fish and see who's down to, to cheat?
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't go searching for who was willing to cheat.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: But when I would go to Vegas, for example, you know,
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: you had that big shot mentality. You have to buy
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: a table, bottle of liquor. You know, I'm thinking I'm
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: a big shot. And this big shot mentality got me
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: in a lot of trouble. And so women would come
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: over and then now I'm with that woman or.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And were they like one night stands or were they
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: like they would continue and did you ever... catch feelings
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: for some of these women?
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: They lasted, one lasted almost like six months and we
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: had feelings. She wanted me to leave my wife.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Did she live near you?
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Um, she did.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Was she within the community too? Like, was she like
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: a mom too or just?
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, nobody was married. Actually, sorry, this one
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: was married.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: And she said that she, um, I thought she was
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: in a great relationship, but she said she wouldn't. And again,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: where's my integrity? Like, you know, like, Why would I
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: be with a woman who's married? And so those poor
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: choices continue to mount.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: But like, where are you like sneaking? How are you
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: sneaking around with these people? Hotels. Like, so like you
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: just go, you're at work, your wife's at the Little League, whatever.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh, OK, well, Wednesday I have
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: a thing with, you know, Beyonce's agent. So I'm going
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: to whatever, not be home. And then you would get
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: a hotel and meet the woman.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: Take nice dinner first, but yes.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And did anyone ever see you out to dinner with
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: someone else?
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: No, but the funny story is my ex, um.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Cause she's your ex now, your wife.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Right. Well, yeah, they're all I've done to her and
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: everybody else. Uh, we got divorced officially in 2017, but
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: it was, we had a rocky last several years before that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Um, but I was, I was at this woman's house
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: and my wife suspected that I was cheating on her.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: And so this, she hired a private detective to follow me.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: And ultimately she was away on vacation and she called me. So, Hey,
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: where were you last night? So I said, I was
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: at a client meeting. I'm lying. She says, well, that's
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: funny because I understand you were at XYZ place. And
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: so that was the moment that the infidelity was discovered.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And when she called you with that confrontation, I'm just
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: curious because if I was in that position, was she
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: cool as a cucumber or, Or was she like heart beating, like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I actually have evidence and I'm going
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to confront my husband?
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: The latter. Yeah, she was really angry, as she should
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: have been.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Right. And how old are the kids now at this point?
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: This point, so this is in, so right now the
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: kids are 31. 31, 29, and 22. Uh-huh. So now
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: we're talking about 2000.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: A little 10 years ago.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, 10 years ago.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So at this point, she knows you're cheating. Does
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: she know you're doing coke?
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: No, she knows nothing.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know about the gambling, doesn't know about the stealing.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: So she just thinks... that you guys are having marital issues,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and you stepped out on her.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I left the house. So I left her
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: in the house. Eventually, we were separated because of all this.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: And I lived in Westlake Village and rented a house
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: while she stayed in that house until the demise, until 2015,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: 2016 happened. So you get the call.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: You get the call, and at this point, you're separated
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: or you're not separated?
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Separated.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: You're separated. You're still doing all the coke, but you're
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: still managing kids. To look like you're working for other people.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: And so what do you say when they say, where
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: is the 4.7 of Atlantis's money? What do you say?
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: My immediate reaction was I was lying. I said, she
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: invested in a cannabis business. I don't know where I
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: got this, but it just came out of my head.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: And so they're like, okay, well, she claims you never
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: told her that. I said, well, I'll get her to
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: sign something. I'll fly back tonight. So now I leave
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Tampa Bay and I fly to LA and I'm greeted
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: back at my firm by my partners and now a
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: legal team that they retained. And so I had this
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: genius idea to play poker with my partners. And I said, well,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: if you guys don't believe me, you know, just give
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: me a lie detector test. And so they said, okay,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: thank you. We'll consider it. And so.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Cause you're still saying she wanted to invest in this
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: cannabis company. You're just like, what did you call it?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Green clover fun. Like, what did you come up with
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the name to?
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: I wasn't that creative.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Um, and that's, and that's sort of like, The whole
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: way through this journey of almost six years gambling every day,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: I have to come up with lies every Sunday night
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: of what I'm going to tell the bank. Like to
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: your question you asked earlier, it wasn't that I said
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: wire the money. It was, I'm going to use Alanis
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: as an example. Hey, private banker for Alanis, I need
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: you to deliver $ 40, 000 of cash to me by 2
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: o'clock tomorrow. And they would ask why. And I'd come
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: up with a story because Alanis is working with a
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: producer in the studio and she wants a discount by
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: paying cash. Like the countless lies that I had to
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: say to the bank, it was like, it was awful.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: So that's how I got the money. And I paid
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: the book. He would meet me in the garage and
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: the office building. And I would give him in this example, $ 40, 000
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: of cash. And so when I came.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Back, And when someone who's a bookie knows they have
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: got a whale, they have got someone who has endless
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: amounts of money who is addicted.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Do they act like they're your best friend? Do they
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: keep coming around? Or does it ever turn sour? Do
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: you ever not pay them on time and they threaten
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: to come kill you? What is that relationship like?
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: First of all, I believe most people in the entertainment
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: space are phony.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: Okay, and.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: Despite me being completely an awful human being for, call
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: it six years, one of the things I was able
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: to do and I still do is like when I
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: got caught, I was seeing an Eastern Western medicine doctor.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: And once it became public, he called me and he said,
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: I want you to meet me at a house, Jonathan, tomorrow.
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: But I want you to wear a suit. So I go,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: it's my doctor. So I go to this house and
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: I walk in I know nobody. I don't even know
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: where the doctor is. And I look outside, and there's
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: a funeral going on in this homeowner's backyard. A rabbi
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: is giving a eulogy. I'm like, this must be the
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: wrong address, but I'll trust the doctor. I sit in
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: the last row because I feel uncomfortable. And the doctor
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: walks in. I said, Doc, what is this? He goes, Jonathan,
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: this is a staged funeral. The person who owns this
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: house is upstairs, and he fears death. And he's interested
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: to know what his loved ones would say about him.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: They think he's dead. Isn't this weird? But to my point,
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: now fast forward, we leave. And the doctor asked me,
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: he said, Jonathan, what's your takeaway from this? I said,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: let me process this, doc. So 30, 45 seconds into
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: the processing, I say, here's my takeaway. I said, if
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: I were to die today in the height of my
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: career or prior to getting caught in the height of
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: my career, I would probably have 600, 700 people at
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: my funeral. Of those 600, 700 people at my funeral,
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: 98% are there at a professional obligation. Today, if I
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: pass away, I said to them, maybe 50 people will
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: come to my funeral. But those 50 people, about 100%
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: of them care and love me. And why was that
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: an important message for me? It's because today, I don't
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: believe in having a quantity circle of friends, but rather
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: a quality circle of friends. And today, I set boundaries
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: with people that are healthy for not just my recovery,
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: but for my well-being. And, um, in the entertainment space,
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: there's none of that. It's completely phony. And I don't
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: want to generalize the entire entertainment space, but I would
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: say the hardest part about being a professional in that
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: space is sometimes you can get caught up with, like
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: you said earlier, like the party scene. I really didn't
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: get caught up in that. Um, I mean, I did
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: go out to places, but it wasn't really the party.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: It was sort of the schmooze and I really didn't
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: like the schmooze either. Um, But those are things about
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: the entertainment space I believe still go on today, but
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know that factually.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: So, okay, let's– so you are saying give me a
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: lie detector test. I swear she wanted to invest in cannabis.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I've done nothing wrong. Then what happens?
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: So now we're kind of reconciling again. This is in
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: like December of 2015. You're reconciling? My ex-wife and I.
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: Okay, okay.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: So we're starting to socialize again and sleep over at
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: each other's place. And it would have been our 23-year
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: anniversary in May. So now it's like May 7th. And
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: I say, why don't we go up to Santa Barbara and,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: you know, have a vacation? You know, celebrate what would
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: be our 23rd year anniversary. She said, okay. So I
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: get a call from one of my partners. This is
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: like on a Saturday, I believe.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Still gambling, still doing coke.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: The whole 24-7.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And still cheating?
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Not cheating anymore.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: So now I get a call from my partner. He said,
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: you know how you told us that you would take
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: a lie detector test? We want you to come down
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: to Beverly Hills tomorrow and meet a former retired FBI
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: agent polygrapher. I'm like, now, by the way, when I
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: received the call, I'm high on cocaine.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And how long, how much time has passed before the
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: first time that Alanis people are like, where's the 4.7
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: and let's do the lie detector test?
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Six months. Oh, okay. Five, six months.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: And who are you stealing from now?
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: No.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: So I'm still, I'm taking from other clients now.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Now you're taking from other clients.
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: And the same type of thing, 20,000, 40,000. Okay.
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: And so I tell my, so now I have now,
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: now I'm really caught. Now I have to tell my
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: wife the truth, right? Cause they want me to go leave.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: We were at a hotel. They want me to leave.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: And so I hang up the phone and I told
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: her for the first time, What I've been doing for.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Almost six years. How did you tell her in a nutshell?
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: I said, babe, I have to go down to take
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: a lie detector test tomorrow. I just want you to
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: know that I've been gambling for almost six years, embezzling
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: money from clients. And, you know, I'm sorry for all
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: the pain this is probably causing you. And she was
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: obviously in shock.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Did you mention the coke then or no?
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Yes. I was doing cocaine in the hotel room. She
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: saw me doing it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And was she concerned or was she just like, I
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: thought we were going to have a chill weekend. Why
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: do you feel like you need Coke? Or like, were
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: you drinking too? And then you, you didn't hide the lines.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And she was like, how often are you doing that? Like,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: what was her questioning on that?
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: She didn't really pose that question to me. I mean,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: I think it was just because I was mostly hiding
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: in the bathroom or when she would go down to
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: the pool, I would do it. But she saw that
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: I had some with me. Yes.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Okay. But she ever, did she want any?
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: No, she was, she was pretty, she was a really
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: incredible woman.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: I didn't realize that until now, if you will.
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: A little too late to realize that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So you tell her all that. Does she cry, scream?
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Does she not think it's as serious as it is
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: or what?
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: So I said to her, listen, it's going to be okay.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Go to the spa. Lay out at the pool.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Great relaxing massage you're going to get.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I'm going to leave in the morning and I'll be back.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: So now this is May 8th, 2016 because my sober
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: date from all drugs and gambling is May 9th, 2016.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: So I'm driving an hour and a half from Santa
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Barbara to Beverly Hills. I'm snorting lines of cocaine for
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: the lie detector test. I'm placing my last bet. I
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: walk into the polygrapher's office with a big ego and
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: shaking from the cocaine. I put my feet up on
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: his desk. I laid back on his chair and I
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Googled how to beat a lie detector test once I
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: got off that call with my former partner.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And what does it say?
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: Whatever it said, I certainly didn't follow the instructions because
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: the one thing that I didn't pay attention to, I'm
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: thinking this whole two hours of establishing some dialogue with
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: the polygrapher and myself between us, that I'm the one
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: establishing a rapport with him. But what I didn't realize,
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: because I must not have paid too much attention to
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: what I Googled, that it's his responsibility to build a
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: rapport with me. So I'm thinking I'm winning because I'm like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: this guy likes me. We're having this conversation for almost
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: two hours.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Before he hooks you up.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: Before he hooks me up. Then he hooks me. up
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: okay and i leave there thinking i beat this thing.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And the questions are like what's your name all that
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: stuff and then did you steal money and you say no.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: Right, and with cocaine, you can't beat a lie detector test.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: You're already shaking from a stimulant.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Right, I would think that would be the worst drug
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: you could take ever before a lie detector test.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: And these bad choices and bad decisions continued for me, right?
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: The saga continues. So now I leave the test, and
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: I call up my ex-wife or the wife at this time,
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: and I say, I'm on my way back. Let's have
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: dinner tonight, blah, blah, blah. I get back to the
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: hotel room. I load the computer. I try and get
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: access to my firm. and I'm denied access. So I
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: know that now this is that moment. So I call
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: my assistant, and she said she has access. So now
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: I call my attorney, who's now the district attorney of LA,
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: Nathan Hockman. I said, Nathan, how'd I do? He said, Jonathan,
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: you failed that test worse than anybody in this polygrapher's career.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: So now is the first real time that I'm now
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: recognizing that I'm facing 23 years in federal prison.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: And does Nathan, your attorney, say they know you're lying,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: like I'm going to do what I can to help you?
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: But then you come finally clean to him?
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. So he said, here's what you're going to do, Jonathan.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: You're facing 23 years. You need to come to my
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: office tomorrow with your wife, and we need to figure
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: out a strategy. And thankfully, he was able to negotiate
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: a four- to six-year plea agreement on what could have
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: been a 23-year sentence.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And how much time between going to his office that
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: next day after failing the FBI test of the polygraph
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: test and you accepting that you're going to do four
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to six years, like how much time goes by?
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: A year. So this was in May of 16. In
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: May 3rd, 2017, I was sentenced to six years in
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: federal prison.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And leading up knowing that you're definitely going to have
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: to do some time. How do you I mean, there's
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: like a comedy about that where like Will Ferrell like
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: talks to people because he has to go to like
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: white collar crime. Did you, did you talk to people
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: of what prison are you, what, um, jail or prison
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you might go to and like how you would get
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: through those years and keep a relationship with your sons? Like,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: what did you do leading up to that?
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: I hired a prison consultant.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, so you did just like the movie.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I hired a prison consultant because, you know, I
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: didn't know anything about prison. Like, am I going to,
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: my first question was, am I going to get raped?
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: And, um, I also, my younger son was really scared
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: and he was concerned. So I wanted him to, to
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: hear what this consultant was saying. And, um, We basically
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: chose that the facility that I should ask for at
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: sentencing is called Sheridan Federal Prison Camp in Sheridan, Oregon,
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: because it's the only West Coast camp that has a
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: residential drug and alcohol program. And I can get a
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: year off my sentence if I complete the program. And
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: so I did after two years up in Sheridan, Oregon.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: And then I transferred on Conair, which was awful experience.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Where you really have to be like in the shackles
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: on a plane with only prisoners.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: Prisoners of all security levels. So now I had... It
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: was really scary.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: And I'm vegan, and they're offering bologna sandwiches, and I
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: would maintain my veganism in prison, so I ate a
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: lot of rice and beans, and that was pretty much it.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: And so now I transferred to Taft at this point,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: which was a federal prison camp. It was the only
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: private federal prison camp in the country.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Where is that located?
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: It's near Bakersfield.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: And that's not governed by the Bureau of Prisons, so
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: they have, like, their private COs. And that was... I
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: was there for nine months because now COVID hit.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: And was that significantly better?
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, so much better. Better than the Oregon one or
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: the Oregon one was okay? Oregon was awful. It was dirty. Yeah,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: it was just a bad experience.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: It was a bad experience. So you weren't with white-collar
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: criminals in Oregon?
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: I was.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, you were?
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was with white-collar criminals, and I was with
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: drug dealers, nonviolence. And I got very close with the
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: drug dealers. I got very close with all the inmates.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: There were about 450-plus inmates on the grounds. I led
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: a victim impact program. At this point now I've accepted
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: my crime. I'm in prison.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: And like how often would you talk to– and between
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: the time of you failing the test and telling your
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: wife and going to prison, did she file or were
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: you together when you went to prison?
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: So now I'm going to criminal court for my sentence
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: and family court for my divorce.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: So she did file shortly after.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: It was the worst year.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Did you try to save it or were you like, no,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: you should just divorce me and be free?
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: I was still being disrespectful to her. Like it was
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: just like, how could you like say these things in
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: court when you know I'm going to be, you know,
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: sentenced to prison? And the truth is today, as I
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: reflect on all the things that I've done, she deserved
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: a lot better than me.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think so.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: And she she's happy today. I made amends when I
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: came home to her.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Now, did you leave her in financial ruins?
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Like, you didn't have any money. Like, what is she
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: going to do? Did she have a career?
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: So my brother helped her and my kids out financially.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: My mother and stepfather helped her out and the kids
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: out financially. The government seized all the assets. There was
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: no money.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Did they even take, like, her jewelry and purses and things?
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: No, they were very kind to her. She worked with
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: the government.
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: She sat on the government side during my sentencing. And
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: that was hard to see.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: But she had to give up the house?
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: No, she let the house foreclose after about three years
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: of my time being away. She hit survival mode. She
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: was incredible. She became a Reiki instructor and she really
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: stepped up to the plate to help the children as
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: best she could and herself.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: And what was it like in your social circles? Did
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: she have friends that stuck by her or was everyone
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: just like.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: No, most people stuck by her. It's not her fault.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: She didn't know anything about it. And that's why Inevitably,
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: during this journey, I knew I was going to get caught,
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: and that's one of the main reasons why I never
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: told her or anybody. I didn't want her to be
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: a conspirator. I didn't want her to know anything. And
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: the truth is that most people stood by her.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: And did she ever fly up with the kids when
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: you were in Oregon?
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: No.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: We still don't communicate to this day, other than when
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: I came home making amends to her on the phone.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: That's the only conversation I ever had.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And then how did the kids communicate with you during that?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: So total, how many years did you do between the
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: two places?
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: So I did 34 months incarcerated.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Okay. And during those 34 months, what was your communication
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: with the three sons?
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: So my younger son and I spoke every week. You
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: get 15 minutes on the phone. My middle son and
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: I did not speak on the phone, nor my older
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: son and I, but they came to visit me once
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: or twice when I was in Taft. Still to this day,
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: I'm nine plus nine years and three months sober. My
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: two older boys still don't talk to me. My older
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: son sees me maybe three or four times a year.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: He calls me Jonathan. I hurt him.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: So wait, which sons do you talk to?
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: So my oldest and my middle son I don't communicate with,
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: but with the exception of my older one who lives
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: in Marina del Rey, he calls me three or four
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: times and we go and have lunch together.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, so then you do communicate.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: We do. I'm grateful that we speak three or four
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: times a year.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Middle one, nothing.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: Nothing.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: And are the boys close with each other?
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: Oh, they're best friends.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: I'm so blessed to have kids.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: And then the younger one you do talk to?
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: Every day, four or five times a day. Yeah. I mean,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: my biggest hope in life to this day is that
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: my kids will come back in my life. Because they
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: were my best friends. They were literally my best friends.
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: And then I embarrassed them.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: And what would be like... So when you're in that
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: time in the prison and you're now, you know, getting,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you're sober, you're working on recovery. What was the fallout,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: maybe part of that, with the other celebrities and people?
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Like how much news media was about this? About like,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: was your face on TMZ? Like what was happening with it?
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: Yes, my face was on TMZ. I was in a
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: lot of trade magazines, the traditional ones, Variety, Hollywood Reporter, Billboard.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: some of the financial magazines, but I didn't pay attention
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: to any of them. I had my best friend from
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: childhood track on a Google alert and he would call me.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: I said, Mark, I told you, I don't want to
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: know anything anymore. Like the last thing I want to
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: do is read all the, the hatred out there. And
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: it's just going to make me feel worse than I
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: already do.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: And did it make like other people in your business
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: pissed because then their clients were going to be a
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: little more on edge believing that it could happen to them?
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: Yes. So someone handed me about them, few weeks to
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: a month into my incarceration, someone handed me, I think
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: it was Variety or Hollywood Reporter, and in that magazine,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: there was a story where at this point in time,
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Johnny Depp was suing his business manager, and there was
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: my face and Johnny Depp's face, and it said, it
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: took a survey of the business managers, and they asked
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: the business managers who should get more time, Johnny Depp's
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: business manager or or Jonathan Schwartz, the business manager. And
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: if you think about who was taking it, the census,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: the sample size was all business managers. They're clearly going
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: to say Jonathan, and probably they should have said it regardless, Jonathan.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: I deserved a lot more than Johnny Depp's business manager
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: for whatever he did. And so that was like the
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: first time I read something in prison where there were
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: still people who really hold a lot of, like, hatred
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: toward me. And they should. Again, I mean... I won't
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: deny that I hurt a lot of people.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: So then you get finally released and you go to
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: like a halfway house or what are you, where do
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: you go right after? Cause now you're, you, you get
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: released and, and I mean, do you have any money
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: to your name at this point?
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: No, zero.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: So April 16th, 2020, I'm released. Um, um, I need
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: to do 16 months of home confinement with an ankle monitor. Um,
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: which was almost worse than prison because you're restricted. I
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: couldn't leave this small little apartment that I had, except
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: for going grocery shopping with permission, going to doctors. So
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: I made sure I saw a lot of doctors so
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: I could at least get out of the studio apartment
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: I was in. And I needed that time to get
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: more humble. I came out with a little bit of.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: You still weren't humble after four years of prison?
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: I came out of prison with ego that was dropped,
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: but not completely dropped. I needed to become more humble.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: I couldn't get a job. That was part of the
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: process of getting more humility. Really working the steps again,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: the 12 steps, helped me also become humble more than
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: I was when I left prison. And I got a
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: job working at Dunkin' Donuts. And I was cleaning the
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: countertops and mopping the floors. And I got fired after
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: two months. I wasn't doing a good job doing that.
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: And then I got a job working as an auto
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: salesperson for Lexus of Thousand Oaks. And I didn't realize this,
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: but in California, the Department of Motor Vehicles governs auto salespeople.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: I know nothing about cars. So what I do know, though,
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: is now I'm immersed into the 12-step program and I'm
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: practicing the principles of the program, like rigorous honesty and
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: not trying to manipulate people or be dishonest anymore. And
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: when a customer would walk in, I'd say, have you
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: heard of Trucar? Trucar is like strategic.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: No, I remember that was one of my first sponsors. Yeah,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: but Trucar about how to find out what you could.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: What is the best price for a lease if you
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: want to lease or finance it. So if they said
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: that they saw Trucar, or even if they didn't, I said,
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: tell my manager you did because I'm looking you in
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: the eyes and I'm telling you I can get you
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: the best price because I could with Trucar. So now
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: three months into this four-month, provisional license to be an
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: auto salesperson, I get a notice that, um, my, um,
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: pending approval from the department of motor vehicles has now
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: been revoked and you're not allowed to work as an
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: auto salesperson. So I decided I'm gonna take this to
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: an administrative hearing on zoom. This was during COVID and
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: I'll represent myself. And so the judge can see all
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: the rehabilitation I've done. I've never got a disciplinary action
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: in prison. I, I, led this victim impact program. I
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: helped inmates. I taught accounting in prison. I'm doing everything
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: I can to better myself from the moment I walked
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: into prison and still to this day. And so I'll
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: never forget, the judge said, Jonathan, while you've really rehabilitated yourself,
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: I'd like to grant you the authority to go back
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: and work as an auto salesperson. This lawyer from the
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Department of Motor Vehicles says, no, your honor. Auto salespeople
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: is the number one profession with workers with integrity. The
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: old Jonathan, can I curse on here? The old Jonathan
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: would say, are you effing kidding me? You're saying that,
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: no disrespect to listeners who are auto salespeople, but I
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: can't put them in the bucket of the most integrity-filled profession.
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: And so I was revoked that license. So for me,
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give you a little 12-step talk. My
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: higher power wanted me to be denied from that. wanted
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: me to get fired from Dunkin' Donuts because he was
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: giving this message that, you know what, schmuck, it's time
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: for you to go to addiction study school, become a
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: certified addiction and drug counselor, then I want you to
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: go to grad school to become an LMFT with an
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: emphasis in addiction and trauma, and I want you to
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: pay forward what was once given to you to your
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: brothers and sisters in the program. And to me, that's
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: what I am today, and that's what I'm most proud of,
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: is that today I can speak with a level of humility.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: Today I can be vulnerable. Today I can ask for help.
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: Today I can be emotionally present. I don't live in
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: my past, but I don't forget my past.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Are there any people from your past, clients, Atlantis, whatever,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: that you have ever had contact with or you've written
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a letter to and they've responded in a negative or
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: positive way?
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: So during probation, I wasn't allowed to communicate with or
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: incarceration slash home confinement slash probation. I was prohibited from
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: speaking to anybody victims, direct or indirect, or any of
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: my firm partners. And I did communicate with one of
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: the asset managers who worked with a few of the
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: clients I embezzled because I put him in a really
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: bad spot because he trusted me when I would call
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: him and say, client A needs $ 25, 000 sent to me.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: And I can only imagine how much he had to
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: deal with as a result of how much I lied
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: to him. And so I reached out to him, this
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: was probably about six months ago, and I made amends
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: to him. And he, to my pleasant surprise, really, um,
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: appreciated that phone call. Probably the best asset manager in
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: the entire entertainment space, bar none. A good, humble man
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: who didn't deserve that. And so, like, I'm blessed that
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: he accepted my amends. Um, to my former partners, um,
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: I would have, I would have started to make amends
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: to them, but recently they, they, um, handed me a
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: civil judgment that I don't want to get into now,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: but it's likely because they think that I'm making money
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: from a book and movie, which I don't have out yet.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: The good news is I've retained an attorney and we're
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: going to beat them at their own game. And so
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: today I just, I haven't made amends to him. I
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: wanted to make amends to him, but now that they're
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: playing games with me, I'm not going to make amends
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: to them.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And, but none of the, celebrity clients like none of
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: the singers and people that you represented that there's been
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: that distance yeah obviously.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: When you make amends you your sponsor will tell you
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: that you only make amends to people that you're not
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: that may not be harmed by you making amends and
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: my sponsor and I decided that if I were to
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: make amends with Alanis it would probably cause her more
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: harm than anything And to bring that up to her
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: again isn't the right suggestion from my sponsor, and I
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: happen to agree with him.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: So out of the four points, so how much money
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: did she lose out on by being involved with you?
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: All clients got paid back, including Alanis, 100% in full.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: How did they get paid back?
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: They got paid back by my firm and Lloyd's of
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: London as well.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: So that's how I pay restitution today.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Towards that payment?
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: To Lloyd's of London and to my former partners.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. And so now what, first of all, you
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: have tattoos with like names. I'm assuming those are your kids.
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So when did you get those?
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: Not in prison.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: When you got out?
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: No, before prison.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Before prison, you were this straight laced guy or because
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: you were like caught a hip with your tats and
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: your cool glasses?
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: Nobody knew I really had tats. I wore a suit
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: or long sleeve shirt for, I did it about a
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: year before I started gambling.
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Um, I always, what this art is, is a lot
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: of Jewish religious. So it's a Torah scroll.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: It's the Israeli, you know, the wall.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Even though if you're a Jew, I thought you weren't
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: supposed to have tattoos.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: You're not. So my rabbi wasn't happy with me.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: Because in theory, we don't, I don't own my physical body.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Right. So I'm not allowed to desecrate it, but all
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: of this is Jewish tattoos and spiritual sayings. Um, I
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: probably do regret that I did it, um, today, but again,
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: I can't, I can't live in my past because a
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: person who's in recovery to live in our past would
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: not be healthy for our mindset.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: So.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: So now tell me about like your day to day.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: So you about this is the place in which you
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: are counselor. Altus, is that pronouncing right? Altus.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: Altus Rehab. So it's in Encino. We have two homes.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: There's six beds.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: It's like a beautiful house. Looks like a real housewife
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: at Beverly Hills would live there.
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: Definitely it's beautiful home i'm a program director there i'm
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: a therapist there now and i'm living like i don't
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: even consider a job like i can use my academia
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: in grad school and addiction studies along with my experience
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: to establish instant credibility with the clients that i see
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: in sessions because the way addicts minds work we have
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: a lot of commonality and Even though I make very
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: little money today, I literally am the happiest I've ever been.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: I live in a small one-bedroom apartment. I struggle financially.
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: I go paycheck to paycheck, barely can pay my bills.
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: I get a lot of overdraft fees every month in
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: my bank account, but that's a result of my poor choices.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: I don't play the victim role. I don't play the
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: woo-me party. I mean, the truth is I own it,
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: and it's something that I've learned to surrender to my
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: higher power and accept that These consequences are a result
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: of my choices.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: And what about your romantic life? What's that like?
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: Today I'm blessed to have a woman in my life who,
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: she knows everything about me. She's accepted me for who
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: I am. I don't believe in cheating. So when I
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: got home from prison, this woman that I was sort
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: of like engaged to.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: How did you meet her? Did you meet her while
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: you were in prison or you were dating her before
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: you left?
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: When I was separated in 2015 from my wife, we
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: started dating.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: And she stuck with you all throughout the prison?
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: No, she didn't. Well, I thought she did, but she didn't.
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: So when I came home, I learned that she cheated
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: on me. And that was a really good lesson for me.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: But you thought during the four years that she was
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: being true to you?
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: I suspected that she wasn't because she wasn't really touchy-feely.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: Like when she came to visit me, rarely did she
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: come to visit. And on the phone, I could hear
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: a guy's voice, and all of the inmates that I
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: hung out with would say, Jonathan, you're so naive. She's
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: cheating on you. I'm like, nah, she loves me.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Stop.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: Come on. And so it turned out that when I
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: came home, she picked me up. There was no hug.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: She basically said to me, you're sleeping on the couch,
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: and there's no intimacy. So I kind of knew, right?
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Well, why did she even pick you.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Up at all? Well, she didn't have to. But if
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: she didn't pick me up, I wouldn't have been released
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: because she was the designated person to pick me up.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: So now I get an apartment. After two months living there,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: she's not talking to me at all. And I'm wearing
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: an ankle monitor and I have limited movements. I had
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: to remain in the same apartment complex because that was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: the address for the probation officer. So now... I have
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: to get this small studio that looks into her two-bedroom apartment.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: And I could see her and her boyfriend for nine months.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: So now I'm crying every night for nine months. Woo
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: me now. Back then I did the woo me. And
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: it was such a great experience for me.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: Because now I know how it feels to be cheated on.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: And the last thing I will do ever again is
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: to cheat on a woman. Because now I know how
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: it feels to be cheated on and know also how
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: it feels to cheat on someone.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: So like I really have beautiful communication with my girlfriend today.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: She trusts me. I trust her. By the way, I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: don't expect people in the entertainment space or anybody that
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: are harmed to trust me. If you're going to try
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: to trust me, don't believe the words that you identify
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: as my mouth as someone that manipulates and remembers because
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: you're right. That was me. The only way I can
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: earn back your trust is through my actions on a
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: daily basis. If you're interested to observe me and see
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: who I am today, then I think you'll be you'll
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: you might consider trusting me again. And when I say
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: trusting me again, just maybe accepting me to come and
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: communicate with you. Have a cup of coffee.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have one last question. Up until the point
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: that the assistant little league coach or whatever came up
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: to you, which was the beginning of the downfall end,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you really were a completely truthful person. Yes. That's crazy.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Because, I mean, I always kind of wonder when you
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: meet a liar, like, when did the lie start? When
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: can that happen? And yours truly was through the addiction.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, those six years were the worst six years of
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: my life, including infidelity. I mean, I could sit and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: laugh about it, for lack of a better word now,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: because the truth is, like I said, and I'll continue
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: to say, like, I don't live in the past anymore
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: because I live in the present today. I don't think
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: about tomorrow.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Where is that? Did it end? Doing your sentence and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: getting the lesser time, were the government or whatever at
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: all interested in who the bookie players were?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: No, I wish they were interested because if they were interested,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: the bookie actually had $ 7 million and he could have
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: given it all back to them and my sentence would
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: have been maybe a year. And it's not pro-recovery behavior
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: today for me to call out who his name is.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: But they didn't want to go get him because they
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: wanted to focus on me.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: So there was no benefit of telling. But had you told,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: would you have thought that maybe that would have put
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: your life at risk or anything?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: I wasn't fearful of that. I mean, this guy, if
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: I were in his situation, I would have taken care
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: of his kids had he been in prison. And not
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: one time did he offer to give my children or
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: my ex-wife money that he knows darn well he obtained illegally. Um,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: and he should have been the kind person to do that. Um,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: but he didn't. So again, I don't carry resentments toward anybody.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Well, like where is he today? Is he still doing
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: the same thing?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: He's still in Oak Park, which is next to Agora Hills.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: And I saw him one day and I had to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: bite my tongue.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Where'd you see him?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: So when my younger son graduated high school, we went
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: to a restaurant in Westlake and my, my, my mom
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: and stepfather and all three boys showed up and, actually
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: the woman I'm dating now showed up as well. And
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: I saw him walking in and I know darn well
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: he saw the family and I had to literally just say, okay, Jonathan,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: like this is a test for you from your higher power.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: Like just, you know what? Don't stoop down to his level.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: Be the mature person you are today. Be emotionally present
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: there for your son and his graduation dinner. And I did. And, um,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: That's probably was the right decision at that time. And
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: if I were to see him again, I'd probably walk away.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: I don't really get involved in escalating conflict today. I
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: try and live like a pretty flat lifestyle. I don't
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: have too many ups and downs. Like I view every
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: challenge as an opportunity today for me to learn and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: to be a better human being and to help people
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: not make the same mistakes that I made.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I really find it fascinating and fascinating. whatever
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: you do in sharing your story. And like, I mean,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: I do see it like it could be a movie.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: It's very, it's very interesting and juicy and, you know,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: kind of like a Wolf of Wall Street type of
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: a thing. So I hope that if that's what you want,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: someone will, you know, make it happen for you. But
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: in the meantime, for anyone that's listening to this that
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: want to know more about you and the place that
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: you work, where can they find you?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: So they could follow me on my Instagram account called
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: The Real Jonathan Schwartz. And they could also look up altusrehab.com.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: It's spelled A-L-T-U-S.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: Yes, altusrehab.com. If they need help, we're happy to help
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: them if they're struggling with mental health or substance use.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: But if you just want to talk and you have
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: some questions, you could. um, DM me on Instagram. I
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: don't even know if that's the hip word to say.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I know it is, but it's called DM.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: You could DM my kids. My youngest son makes fun
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: of me because I try to ask him, how do
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: you do this? How do you do that? He's like
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: that enough already. You're not from Mars.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: You were gone for the four years that all of
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: it came. It must've been, you must've come home and
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: been like, what the hell is this?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: This is what I say. It was what I say
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: to him. I said, son, it's like me coming back
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: from planet Mars. I don't understand this.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: He said that, please enough questions. It's cute though. It's
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: like cute banter. So, um, anyone who needs help please
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: have the courage to ask for help and you can
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: DM me and I'll do whatever I can to help
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: you don't be like me have the courage to be
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: vulnerable and ask for help.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Awesome well thanks so much for coming on this was great.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day but they don't
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer the drawer just the one square
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: before bed.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Or two you know.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: Nobody's watching you deserve a treat With eight flavors to
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: choose from, you can choose the flavor you favor with
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: Cadbury Dairy Milk.