Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Bitcoin: Satoshi's Treasure - Tomer Strolight - Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Bitcoin: Satoshi's Treasure - Tomer Strolight - Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:01
Yo welcome to second interview. I did, I really enjoyed it when
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we did it with Jeff Ross last week and it did pretty well.
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So I wanted to do it again. Anyways, I brought a legendary
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guest Skies writing is some of the best.
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If you haven't checked it out, you're definitely missing out.
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His name is Tomer. Are you doing Tomer?
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I'm good piece. How's it going?
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Good man. So to start a conversation, I
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really want to read a passage from one of your last pieces of
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writing. The actual name of the writing
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was called the legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto.
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And this is absolutely blew my mind and I might even I might
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even get excited and get Opti into the conversation because of
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how awesome this passage was. But it basically, says, money
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has not generated been regarded as anything To do with Journeys,
1:05
into the non-material, realm of the spirit.
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It is generally believed to belong to the material world.
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It can buy certain things but it cannot buy friendship, love
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intelligence or the answers too deep and internal questions
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about the mysteries of the universe.
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In fact, money is accused of leading people away from these
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things. This, however, takes us to the
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Curious matter of Bitcoin that is, that is fascinating and that
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kind of gives me memories of, you know, when you hear it from
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your, from your parents when you're young.
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You know, money is the root of all evil where they talking
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about Fiat money the entire time, right?
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Yeah. It's it's a really interesting
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thing that the more time that you spend with Bitcoin, the, the
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more you're drawn to asking deep and philosophical questions and
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not just about money but about About spirituality even right
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now and that could just be about personality about what makes us
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us and not just the material chemicals that make us up, but
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what makes the personality and the values and the morals that
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we have. And why do we pursue certain
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things over others? And what are this article that
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you're citing? I published it a couple weeks
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ago, I wrote it many months ago, and I was hoping to be able to
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do something more with it than just publish it as an article.
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Wanted to make a film out of it, but things were taking long and
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I eventually felt the strong calling to just publish it, but
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I didn't really think people would read it.
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And it's ironically, I was very mistaken about that because it's
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turned out to be my most read article that I've published in
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my career, so far about Bitcoin. I had one that I published.
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It was a criticism of the theory and the got picked up in the
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mainstream press and the tech press and so that one ended up
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being Far and Away my most read article.
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But this is the most bread Bitcoin article.
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I've written and it really resonated with a lot of people
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because in it I do take people down this journey and say why is
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it that Bitcoin stirs A Spiritual Awakening in so many
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people and I and I think what I've managed to do by analyzing
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the experience that I went through and that I've seen many
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other people go through because actually explain why it does
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that. And then I begin this article
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with this retelling, the story of the invention of Bitcoin and
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the story of Satoshi Nakamoto And how extraordinary that story
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is and also, at the same time is a true story because it reads
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better than the best mystery in the best adventure.
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The best action story that you may have ever heard.
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It's almost impossible to believe except that we can
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verify every single part of this story because it's unfolding
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right before, our very eyes and every aspect of it is perfectly
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documented. So maybe I'll just pause there.
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But this is, I was really happy to write this.
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This piece came to me all in kind of one morning after I'd
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had a long conversation the night before with another
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Bitcoin, ER, about the spiritual journey that Bitcoin took us
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down and kind of questions it made us.
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Ask about life and society and civilization and then it just
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came to me. And then it's called the
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legendary treasure of Satoshi Nakamoto because after I present
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all of these things, I'm able to tell.
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Another true tale of what, the legendary treasure of Satoshi
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Nakamoto represents. What do all these coins that
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Satoshi mind and never touched stand for, and, but I won't
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spoil it for people who haven't read it yet.
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But if you haven't read it yet, I really encourage you to Beat
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It. I can't hear you Nico.
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Oh, there we go. By my awesome producer in the
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back Opti, doing his magic. How important do you think the
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story of Satoshi is to bitcoin the, the mythology?
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So to speak. And I'm going to tie this in
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with Fiat money. I think the symbolism and Fiat
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money, it's very important as well.
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There is a freaking pyramid with an eye on the back of Fiat
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money. So clearly symbolism in general,
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Is important in money. How important is the story of
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Satoshi? How important was it?
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Tomer? That Satoshi stepped away when
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he did. Oh yeah.
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So, two pieces. So, first of all, the story of
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Satoshi is fundamental to bitcoin because if the story of
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Satoshi had been, if almost any single part of it had been any
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different. I think Bitcoin would be
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fundamentally different. And would be compromised in
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certain ways. I think the fact that it was
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such a hard invention to come up with, and in fact, the invention
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solve the problem that had been proven by mathematicians and
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computer scientists to be impossible to solve in theory.
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But Satoshi comes up with this practical solution to the
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Byzantine generals problem, where the devil spend problem,
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that works in practice. Even though in theory, you can't
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come up with a solution and he does so, and he presented in
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Wilko, and we don't know who's Oh she is right in advance of
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releasing this creation, having come up with this incredible
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invention that also disproved. The common wisdom of everybody
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else. He put his ego on the back end
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because it wasn't Satoshi Nakamoto that invented Bitcoin,
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that was just a pseudonym that whoever did invent Bitcoin used.
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There is no Satoshi Nakamoto. There is a mask, right?
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It's a disguise. It's like a superhero costume
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that is Satoshi. Moto.
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And so, this person, whoever it was knew that they had to do
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this in a way that preserved their anonymity, just like the
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superheroes in the comic books, right?
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And we can't know the people in the universe of Superman can't
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know that he's Clark Kent and people in the universe of
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Spider-Man, can't know that, he's Peter Parker because it'll
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screw everything up and he needs to be the from the mythological
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figure and that's what Satoshi Knew in advance.
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He did it to protect himself and to be able to release and free
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The Invention from the inventor. When Satoshi disappeared, The
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Invention is left to live on its own.
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And that is a really, really fundamentally crucial element.
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And it can only happen if we never knew who the inventor was,
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like, if vitalik Butera now says, while I'm leaving the
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project, it's still everybody's going to say, well, what do we
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do about this? What do we do about that?
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Can't leave. He's he's forever, the inventor
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and so, and nobody knows who the inventor of Bitcoin is, right?
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We have this named Satoshi Nakamoto but we don't have a
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person to attach it to. There's no face, there's no
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voice. That is just a handful of
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textual writings, like the white paper, which I have behind me,
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and with such as like, such a sacred document that I blew it
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up and made as big as I could there.
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So this whole story of Satoshi Is so fundamental to the
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creation of Bitcoin that here is this genius who solves a problem
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but doesn't fly out. It doesn't fly.
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His identity. Doesn't use his Discovery to
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gain anything for himself. He doesn't use it to become a
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powerful man on the world stage. He doesn't use it to become a
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rich, man. He doesn't use it to become a
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famous man, right? He has zero.
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Fame has zero wealth. He has zero power.
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So he surrenders all of it and he basically makes Bitcoin a
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gift to the human race. And that is a really
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extraordinary thing. He didn't do an IPO to get rich
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right or Ico to get rich, didn't Prima a bunch of coins and sell
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them for money, to venture capitalists.
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He came up with an invention. He took no credit for it as
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whoever he was and he gave it as a gift to the world and he
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tended to it until it was mature enough that he could leave it
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and then he didn't stick around, he had the courage or the
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generosity. To actually leave and disappear
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and so it's really really extraordinary it's what makes
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Bitcoin Bitcoin right there Bitcoin isn't Bitcoin.
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If there's a leader who we know who they are and they got rich
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and they're famous and their powerful in the pulling, all the
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strings of Bitcoin. The beauty of Bitcoin is it
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exists independent of the control of any human being on
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Earth, including its creator? One of the one of the comments
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that we always hear, but I guess on the, on the, on the
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Battlegrounds of Twitter on one of the things that you always
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hear, one of the things that rumors that you always hear, is
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that Satoshi owns a million coins, right?
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That's the room, right? Right.
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And one of the questions that I always get from people that are
10:08
going in is what if he just goes and sell those coins on the top.
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Fundamentally believe no one has access to those coins anymore.
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And I'm going to tie it up with the Genesis block, the Genesis
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block, the Bitcoin, that's there.
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A lot of people have donated Bitcoin to their it son
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spendable. Right.
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Right. What are your thoughts on that?
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Do you think that that Bitcoin is tied up?
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Do you believe that 10 20 years from now?
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So she's going to go, haha, just don't fall his Bitcoin.
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If you've read my article, you know what, I think, right those
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coins will never Remove those coins are a monument that's
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going to last forever, right? Like nobody will ever be able to
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touch every one of us can see those coins there on the
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blockchain. They haven't moved.
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They won't ever move and they stand there forever like
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forever. For anyone anywhere?
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Who thinks a note up or who acts as an Explorer, they can see
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those coins and as much as they might lost after them or try to
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hack Bitcoin or try to do anything to them, they cannot
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touch those coins. And this This is again, without
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spoiling too much of the end of the article.
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This is what Satoshi did with his money.
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He didn't use it to buy himself a fancy Lamborghini or to make
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himself famous or to buy power and influence.
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He left it as ass, Monument to what he accomplished which is
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some of more than what I just elucidated about what he what he
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did and and there it is standing forever and you can't, you know
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it's a price. It's a I meant that's worth more
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than all, all than a million Bitcoin.
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And no matter how much a million Bitcoin is worth in purchasing
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power, here is a monument that is going to last forever that
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nobody can destroy. Right?
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Nobody can touch it. It's quite it's quite amazing.
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It's about the only indestructible thing in the
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world and it's Satoshi stack of coins and take it.
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If you can, I say in the story but you can't because it's a
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remnant of the it's an effect of the invention that he made and
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In malleable indestructible. Entity and his coin stand there,
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as a monument to the indestructibility of it, and to
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the creativity, and to the generosity and humility that
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this person who went by the name Satoshi Nakamoto for a couple of
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years. Represent it missing the exact
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word. Right?
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But that's what he stood for. And, and it's quite, it's quite
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remarkable. And it is like the superhero
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story. Like, if you were doing them a
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movie that showed the story of whoever Satoshi Nakamoto was he
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puts on his cape, he does his heroic deed and then he
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disappears and goes off and lives his life.
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However he lives it. But he leaves that whole thing
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behind and it's becomes you know this is probably one of the most
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well-known. In the world, he's the creator
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of the machine that became his brand that became this
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incredibly well-known brand without ever spending a nickel
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on marketing but he never raised any money for it.
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He didn't buy an ad campaign for Bitcoin.
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It's just it's like the people came towards this great
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invention that was created by a single person, anonymously who
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then abandoned it. And the mass is, keep getting
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bigger and bigger, and the value of it, keeps getting bigger and
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bigger. Because people, recognize the
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achievement that this thing, Of Bitcoin is and he leaked you
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know and he resist all temptation to come back and do
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anything of the sort of spending these coins.
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There's been so much like him. It's not like he's sitting on
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the brink it. There were many times in the
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history of Bitcoin right now we're if money or saving bit
13:55
even helping Bitcoin was what he wanted to do, he would have come
13:57
back to do that but he let it sit in the sense as a test of
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what was built that it could now stand Tone without its creators
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support but also to continue to exist in that humble way which
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is I've done the thing that I came to do.
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Whatever it was right, and it wasn't for money and it wasn't
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for powering wasn't for fame, and this is what takes me back
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to why Bitcoin become such a spiritual awakening for people
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because you can see that Heroes really do exist.
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And heroes can accomplish great things that people think are
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impossible, and they don't have to do it for selfish reasons of
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Fame, power or money. They can do it for making the
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world a better place and giving a gift of the world, and that's
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what Satoshi did. And so, it's a really, really
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extraordinary story. with a Profound ending right here like
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just such a deep emotional and meaningful ending to it.
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And The Story Goes On Right like the satoshis part of the story
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ends but the story of Bitcoin as this movement that grows of in
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everyone who's in. It is a volunteer at nobody is
15:04
forced at the point of a gun to become a Bitcoin or it is just
15:09
other human beings, recognizing the freedom.
15:11
That this thing gives the intelligence of Brilliance of
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the Innovation, the efficacy of this machine does continue to
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tell Truth and continue to stay true to reality.
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And so more and more people are attracted to it.
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Armies of non-violent, consenting intelligent.
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Peaceful, people are Marching towards this invention.
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That could only be made possible because there's nobody in charge
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of it. So I think I've gone on long
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enough answering your question of how important is Satoshi
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story to this? It's, it's crucial.
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Yeah, and it's one thing that no other, quite like no other
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invention can have. It right?
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No, nobody else can ReDiscover what he discovered and nobody
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else who's attempting to recreate Bitcoin is attempting
15:57
to do it for any reason, but money power and fame, right?
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So is complete opposites in terms of the origin of every one
16:06
of these Alternatives. Absolutely, I had that
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Immaculate Conception when it was created, he had no idea that
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it was going to be worth something, it was all Theory and
16:16
then natural naturally free market forces.
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David a value. And then, you know, that's
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roughly, which is interesting. That's roughly when he
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disappeared, right? Not too long after before soon
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as it had value. Yeah.
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As soon as it had any value, he laughed and and it goes, I think
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that really is The Testament to say.
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He wasn't in it for the money. He was in it for the freedom
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right to create a money that didn't have somebody in charge
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of it to create peer-to-peer electronic trustless cash and he
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and he knew that there was more than just technology to this.
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Write it like it was about how it was created and how it was
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created needed. To be something that didn't have
16:58
somebody in charge of it. How else could it be trustless?
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And so in that, that's why he had to create the Persona of
17:04
Satoshi Nakamoto who had to disappear.
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Like he knew all of this at the beginning.
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He didn't come out and say I'm going to disappear.
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He said I was Satoshi Nakamoto and we knew he wasn't.
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But he the fact that he actually did disappear, And did so.
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So quietly right didn't make a big announcement about that
17:24
either you didn't, we didn't have a throwing a going-away
17:26
party for Satoshi Nakamoto. He didn't take in order for
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Bitcoin to succeed. I need to disappear.
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So let's everyone come and say goodbye.
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I'll have a big receiving line. He just sent an email to one of
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the developers few months after. It said you won't be hearing for
17:40
me much anymore. I've moved on to other things.
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Again, without Fanfare, it reminds me of, you know, and I
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always say like when I guess it's the closest analogy that I
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can think of, or example, better said, one of the most important
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things that George Washington did in America's founding was
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not to, not decide to be king, he stepped away after two terms
18:07
and then that set a precedent for the rest of American
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History, you know, it's a FDR kind of, you know, but mostly
18:14
ninety nine ninety five percent of American presidents, stick to
18:18
that to term basis. and, I think it's I think that really set the
18:24
tone for the United States for so long and I think, Satoshi,
18:30
perhaps may be understood that on a fundamental level.
18:33
Sure create this and just let it go.
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I agree. I agree and even to a greater
18:40
degree, right? Because he found a way to not,
18:43
let somebody else be the leader, he found a way to eliminate
18:47
rulers from the thing altogether.
18:49
And so it's like it's the X. It's the Apex system of Anarchy,
18:58
right? Are the Apex system of no
19:01
rulers, which is all that anarchy means, and people think
19:03
it's people other people running through the streets with
19:05
machetes, chopping to the heads-up.
19:07
But it just means it means rules with no rulers, right?
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And he created this, Apex it's not rules with no long-term
19:13
rulers and not rules with rulers.
19:15
That have term limits is rules with no rulers and the necessary
19:22
step in order to create that. To not be a ruler yourself, and
19:26
that, and that's hard to do, because once you've stepped into
19:30
a leadership role, but for dying, people expect you to lead
19:38
or someone else to step into that role when you leave from
19:42
it, right? It's like there's succession,
19:43
right? Someone comes in and kills you
19:45
to succeed. There's an election that happens
19:47
to succeed you some some way people have been looking at a
19:50
system with the leader and it's okay well this leaders gone so
19:53
who's the Next leader. They don't say this leaders
19:55
gone. So now there's no leader on the
19:58
president of a company leaves. Our new president is they begin
20:03
looking for someone ever. They usually try to have a
20:05
transition period, Satoshi transitioned to no rulers and he
20:09
did so, just by Vanishing. Yeah, so it's quite a remarkable
20:14
feat. We've never seen it before.
20:17
No, I don't think we'll see it again to be frank Ram or at
20:20
least for the foreseeable future.
20:22
So tomor, I'll follow up with this and let's go down the
20:26
hypothetical. If he came back, they would
20:30
change everything, wouldn't it? Yeah.
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Yeah, I think I think if he came back he would be thrown out in a
20:38
sense, people would be so disappointed and so angered by
20:41
his coming back that they would say like you're the last person
20:44
on Earth were actually going to let we're not going to let
20:47
anybody be in charge of this thing, right?
20:49
You left it to us, you can't come and take it back, right?
20:51
There's an expression. If you give something and you
20:53
take it back again, you can't take it back anymore and he
20:56
knows that right, he knows that if he came back, like he's
20:58
welcome to spend his coins, right?
21:01
Nobody would fault him for that, but if Came back and identified
21:03
himself and started started acting like Craig Wright said,
21:07
like, okay, I want to make these changes.
21:08
Are those changes. Everyone would say, go fuck
21:10
yourself. Like, you know, we're happy with
21:13
the way the system is, but that but he's such an old like this
21:15
is such an honorable individual. We know he's not going to come
21:19
back. And I think the people who are
21:21
the people who say, well maybe he will maybe he'll do this,
21:24
maybe he'll do that. I think they just haven't
21:26
studied Bitcoin enough and they haven't seen, like, you can
21:29
predict what a person's going to do based off of their past
21:31
Behavior. ER, and we've now seen 13 almost
21:35
14 years of satoshi's behavior of being incredibly, brilliant.
21:39
Incredibly humble, incredibly benevolent.
21:43
And and why would we expect that?
21:45
He's put his personality is going to change.
21:47
I think the people who might have that view or the people who
21:50
haven't been enlightened yet by the lessons, he taught us and
21:55
they think and answer their still.
21:57
Oh, if I would Satoshi, I would come back and spend 50 billion
22:00
dollars and said, well, if you're that sort of You're
22:02
certainly not Satoshi because Satoshi is a person who went
22:06
into this thing, not intending to spend 50 billion dollars.
22:10
We just did it for the sake of pure invention, for the sake of
22:14
purely succeeding at creating something that he set out to
22:17
create not for the purpose of getting rich by it and until you
22:21
appreciate that, you might think Satoshi is going to come back
22:25
and spend all his money and Satoshi is going to come back
22:27
and try to change the system, but he showed us that that you
22:32
don't have to be like that. All right, that's the whole
22:35
point of the invention. It's the whole point of the
22:37
Persona. That's the whole point of
22:39
Disappearing. It's a to say you can pursue
22:43
other things in life than just fame money and power, you can
22:46
give a gift to the world. You can invent something that
22:50
people think cannot be invented and if you can do that, what an
22:54
inspiration that is for everybody else.
22:55
And I think that's why this expression Bitcoin is, Hope
22:58
carry so much weight because people look at that.
23:01
And even if they don't make all Connections that I just pointed
23:03
out deep within subconsciously. It's impossible not to make the
23:07
connection. Once you've heard the story of
23:09
Satoshi Nakamoto, you know, something special is going on
23:12
here, something, unlike anything else you've ever seen before, he
23:17
said, a couple things there that I wanted to ask you about.
23:21
And I so many good questions, but I'll say this.
23:26
Why does Bitcoin changes the way the way that it does?
23:29
Why, you know, and I think it was Max Keiser that originally
23:32
coined. The term you don't change
23:34
Bitcoin, Bitcoin changes. You, why is that?
23:36
Why is it that when you change your unit of account, your whole
23:41
perception of the world, fundamentally changes?
23:44
And from what I've experienced in my life, what I've seen it do
23:47
to opt, he's life, all of a sudden the nihilism goes away.
23:52
You start to develop hope for a future you start.
23:55
Have more options, is it? The deflationary nature is it
23:59
because you're purchasing power increases over time versus
24:03
decreases in the Fiat system? Or is it something deeper than
24:07
that? I think it's something deeper,
24:09
right. And that's what I go into in
24:10
this piece, I think I think it we are raised in a society that
24:17
says and I've said I've said this earlier in the call we're
24:20
raised in a society that says look The governments and
24:25
corporations that exist in the most powerful entities in the
24:27
world. They control everything, they
24:30
can stop anything that can take over everything.
24:33
People are essentially bad, they do their own, they're selfish
24:37
the greedy, they only act out of their own interests for their
24:40
own power, their own wealth, their own Fame, their own ego.
24:47
And we know almost all there is to know.
24:49
Then scientists have said, we can note, we do know this.
24:52
This is this is given. This is the science is settled.
24:55
You can do these things. You can't do those things, and
24:58
it makes us feel like we're cursed, sinful evil beings for
25:05
all those reasons, right? Like we're powerless to do
25:08
things against the government against what scientists have
25:10
decreed against all these things and were bad in the first place
25:12
because we're bad at self and selfish and then satou, and then
25:16
When comes around and you hear the story of the Toshi Nakamoto
25:18
and this one invention this in like once Fell Swoop by creating
25:23
this one invention without greed, that proves that
25:27
government can't stop it and corporations try to take it
25:30
over, try to copy a try to imitate it and fail.
25:33
So they so it just shatters every one of these things that
25:37
were told our truths, That make us feel shitty about ourselves
25:42
and we hear the story and we realized those were not truth.
25:46
You can invent things that scientists say you can't invent,
25:49
you can create things that the government of Corporations
25:51
cannot stop or take over. You don't have to do things for
25:55
a greedy selfish interest. And this is what I don't even
26:01
want to say. It changes you.
26:04
It shows you that certain things that you had been told, were
26:07
true, were lies. They, those things were, in
26:10
fact, lies and the story of Bitcoin shows you that there's
26:13
something else that's fundamentally true, but it
26:16
doesn't tell you exactly what is what is true.
26:19
It just shows you those things that you were told are
26:21
impossible, their walls around you, you can't behave
26:24
generously, you can invent like those are no longer walls around
26:27
you, and so it lets you See but it frees you from the prison of
26:31
those lies and freed from the prison of those lies.
26:35
You get to discover what your potential is.
26:38
And it's exciting because you were raised in this cage, that
26:41
said you're a greedy, selfish person.
26:44
And now it's suddenly, you're not and corporations can control
26:49
everything about you and suddenly, they can't, and the
26:51
government can stop anything and suddenly it can't.
26:54
So suddenly you're it and this can be scary as well.
26:56
Write it was like if you find safety in the this assurance
27:00
that the government can stop anything that it wants to.
27:02
And now you find out it can't that might terrify you but for
27:05
many people It's like what? Okay, I can start testing some
27:10
new limits. I can start exploring some
27:12
things and some people make some bad choices about what they
27:15
choose to explore. But those are eventually
27:19
ultimately people that we don't consider bitcoiners because
27:21
they're off doing things that are contrary to the values and
27:24
Ethos that Bitcoin presents. And so, I think of it as two
27:30
ways. I do think big in one week,
27:32
people say Bitcoin changes you and it does because it frees you
27:35
from the prison but freeing you from a prison isn't so much
27:39
changing you. As letting you discover who your
27:41
true self, always really was on the inside and what your full
27:46
potential isn't. So I like to say Bitcoin isn't
27:48
changing you, it's helping you discover your true self and it
27:53
doesn't force you to discover your true self.
27:55
So if you're not motivated to go on this journey, you won't
27:58
discover. Who what your potential is, and
28:01
who you really are, but by freeing you from all those other
28:05
lies. And giving you an ability to
28:07
protect yourself from attackers and lawyers, maybe the so it's
28:10
not about you getting richer. It's about you being able to
28:13
preserve and hold on to the wealth that you created an
28:15
earned in this world. That's not about the number go
28:18
up so much as it is just about not being continuously Rob
28:21
continuously attacked so defends you and it allows you to be your
28:26
true self. I think that's the most
28:27
important spiritual thing. That's like a value beyond my
28:30
can't put a price on knowing who you are discovering your true
28:36
Soul, discovering your true nature.
28:38
And and other people around you discovering, there is.
28:41
And then you being able to have relationships with other people
28:44
who are freed. It's like, I think that's what
28:47
we're at the cusp of, right? That's what.
28:48
We're just starting to experience this Awakening of
28:51
freedom is Awakening of self-discovery.
28:54
This Awakening of questioning things, like what is Is money,
28:59
of course, but what is education?
29:01
What is self health care? What is spirituality?
29:06
What do I value? What are my values?
29:08
And my morals. So, these are all things that I
29:10
mentioned in this article. And this article, I don't go too
29:13
deep into any of them, but I help people kind of crack open
29:16
the door to say, these are the types of questions you can ask
29:20
and on and you can look at things with a kind of Purity
29:24
that you weren't able to see them in before because they were
29:26
all caught up in the tentacles. Of Institutions that claimed the
29:31
Monopoly on things like healthcare education, money
29:38
medicine, all those kinds of things do you?
29:41
So you you mentioned prison, right?
29:44
Is that the result of Fiat money?
29:47
And because Fiat money was captured by government.
29:51
What do you mean by prison? How is it that Bitcoin grants
29:55
you? This freedom?
29:56
Is it because you can memorize 12 words in your head because It
29:59
becomes it's incredibly difficult for governments to
30:01
confiscate on a mass scale. It is it because they can't
30:05
steal from you through the basement through inflation,
30:07
right? How does Bitcoin give you this
30:10
freedom and how does Fiat take it away from you?
30:13
How has Fiat programmed people to believe that they're in this
30:18
prison without bars? Yeah, well, so the first big lie
30:22
of fiorina said, like I'm saying you're in prison in.
30:26
I heard this story once before. That apparently the circus is
30:30
when an elephant they kept Allison's, right?
30:33
And when the elephant was young, they would chain it to the floor
30:35
with a strong chain. And so, and it would try to
30:38
resist and move, its leg and Lulu find it couldn't.
30:41
And as the elephant grew, they just put a week chain on it
30:44
because the elephant believe the idea that the chain would hold
30:47
them in place because it used to.
30:48
And I think this is, this is the kind of person that I'm talking
30:51
about here, right? Like the prison is the belief
30:55
that the government issues money that what the government issues
30:57
even is money. It's pieces of paper.
31:00
It's not even that anymore, right?
31:02
But it just pieces of paper that they say is money, they took all
31:04
the gold away. It's not backed by any work and
31:07
so now they printed for themselves.
31:08
So that's a lie that imprisons you if you believe it and many
31:12
people in the world believe it, most of us believe that.
31:15
Before we heard about Bitcoin rights like well, some people
31:18
were gold bugs and they seem kind of crazy.
31:20
And we gold was just impractical and unusable so I don't want to
31:24
go too far down that whole side thing but it's like, that's a
31:28
lie. That imprisoned us and so did
31:31
the lie that the government knows what education is best for
31:34
us. Like this is these are the
31:35
things we start to realize. Once we start to realize that
31:37
the money itself is a lie. So does the lie that the
31:39
government can tell us what food is good for us?
31:42
And the more we look at these things, we see what corrupts
31:45
these ideas, right? Well, there are these
31:47
corporations, whose former CEOs, or is heads of certain
31:51
Department, then run for office and become the ministers or the
31:54
secretaries of health and food nutrition.
31:57
And, and all these things in the Government tells tells us what
32:01
Pharmaceuticals are acceptable to take and which
32:02
Pharmaceuticals are unacceptable.
32:04
And interestingly enough ones that can cause you to die and
32:07
become highly addicted. To them are permissive permitted
32:10
and ones that might Enlighten, you and Aren't addictive are
32:13
forbidden. It's Curious.
32:15
It doesn't seem like they're after our best interests when
32:19
these sorts of things happen and they'll lock you up for using
32:22
some of these Pharmaceuticals that they don't approve of that
32:26
seems a problem problematic. So we Start to as these lies
32:31
start to collapse in front of us were suddenly freed to explore a
32:34
much larger space of what what is really money then.
32:39
If it's not these pieces of paper that the government sends,
32:41
what is really the proper way of educating oneself?
32:45
If it's not the exact curriculum, that was issued in
32:47
mandated by Fiat by some government bureaucrats over some
32:52
period of time. What is proper nutrition?
32:54
What is proper health care? What is proper?
32:56
There's just so many different fields you could get Into what
32:59
even is Art. What's this?
33:01
So many Pursuits? What is spirituality taken apart
33:05
from the institutions that claim to speak on behalf of spirits
33:11
and gods and all this stuff? There's this freedom.
33:14
And this is the freedom that I'm saying, it's not easy.
33:16
The answers aren't obvious. It's not like, oh, you knock
33:18
down the, you knock down one of these walls that imprisoned you
33:21
and suddenly and with Enlightenment comes to at the
33:25
snap of a finger. It's no.
33:26
Now you're free to explore and learn and It's going to take
33:29
time and it's going to take energy, it doesn't come
33:32
automatically. And that was the big lie of the
33:35
Fiat world that where the government said, don't worry.
33:37
We have all the answers and we're giving them all to you and
33:40
you don't have to think and you don't have to ask questions.
33:43
This is food, this is money, this is education, this is
33:47
Health Care. This is the medicine you take.
33:49
This is the food you eat. This is what you do when this
33:52
happens, but it's not necessarily the case and and
33:57
that's what we're freed from. So, Prison that I'm talking
34:00
about being freed from and it's not just the monetary prison.
34:03
It's a whole idea of broad philosophical ideological
34:06
prison. And Bitcoin is kind of the
34:08
shattering of one of the most important pillars of it money.
34:12
It's a separation of money from the state and not just from the
34:15
state from every institution, right?
34:17
Separation of money from corporations, no Corporation
34:20
issues at no, not for profit entity issues that no person
34:23
issues. It it's issued by itself on its
34:27
own terms. Terms.
34:29
And so it's very pure and I think that's the other one of
34:32
the other things I mentioned in this essay is this notion of
34:35
Purity is presented to us in a way for the first time and we
34:39
think we used to think money. Was certain things just like, we
34:41
used to think we were certain things, we think money was part
34:44
of an evil greedy thing and then when we see Bitcoin, which is
34:47
money, pure separated, even from matter, right?
34:51
Just it's, it's just pure his essence of money.
34:54
We see that it has nothing to do with any form of evil.
34:57
It's just To free people choose to use as a medium of exchange
35:04
between one another when one is providing something to the
35:08
other. So I think.
35:11
And then we see the beauty of Purity and we, we want to ask
35:14
ourselves. What else?
35:17
What else is pure like? What is pure education?
35:19
What is pure honesty? What is pure taking care of
35:24
yourself, holistically? Not looking at, Medicine and
35:30
food as of the compartmentalizing different
35:33
things and exercises, get a another different thing, it's
35:36
part of the whole. So I'm rambling a little bit
35:38
here but you're like you're letting me the, I think and it's
35:45
fascinating what you said about how and I really do believe that
35:49
I agree with you that Bitcoin is the Catalyst.
35:51
And I think part of the reason for that is because it was, I
35:56
think the association with money State was so powerful.
36:00
It was so powerful and they were able to regulate or destroy any
36:06
competition out of existence. And now comes something and
36:10
Hayek has this very famous video in the 90s right, where it's
36:13
like, if we have to come up with a clever way to go around it
36:16
without violence, right? And we that happened right, and
36:21
now watching the emperor and they don't know what to do,
36:25
right? And that forces them to compete
36:28
and Speaking of competition, this came out not too long ago
36:33
last week and you're going to enjoy this Tomer.
36:35
The, this was called, this is from a report from the US
36:40
Treasury and the name of the report is not kidding, the
36:44
future of money. And here's a small little
36:48
segment. It says the central bank is at
36:50
the center of the monetary system reflecting this position
36:54
central bank money tends to underpin interbank payments and
36:58
service, the bank Backbone of the broader payment system.
37:01
In addition, the Federal Reserve provides currency Reserve.
37:04
Balances operates payment systems and supervises certain
37:07
intermediaries, that issue, private money and make payments
37:11
even as the money and payment systems evolve.
37:14
The central bank's role in final settlement must be preserved to
37:18
promote economic growth efficiency, and other public
37:22
interest. Now, when I hear that, I mean,
37:25
preserve the government, preserve the state tomorrow.
37:28
What is your response to that at that part from the future of
37:34
money report by the US Treasury? All right.
37:37
No, I refute it. Hey, I didn't.
37:39
I it, I have my eyes are open. The central bank is not at the
37:43
center of money. The central bank is at the
37:45
center of the money that the Central Bank issues.
37:47
Just like I'm at the center of these words that are spewing out
37:50
of my mouth, but that doesn't make me the center of the
37:52
universe doesn't make me the center of humanity, doesn't make
37:55
me the center of ideas and so the central bank is one
37:59
Institution that is trying to say what we create as money.
38:05
And I think many of us who have now scrutinized what they have
38:09
to offer are saying No, thank you, it's really really bad.
38:14
What you're doing, right? Like you're, you're Ed, maybe at
38:18
some point you tried to maintain some integrity and some
38:22
credibility. But right now, when you're out
38:25
of control to you don't know what you're doing.
38:27
Three, you lie, every time you You speak.
38:29
And for your you're robbing Us blind and you're stealing
38:33
through inflation and through money laundering, which you're
38:37
involved in three, insider trading with your employees are
38:39
involved in, not getting punished for you're, you're
38:44
robbing us your criminals not caretakers and And we obviously
38:51
can't as Hayek said in your famous quote, we obviously can't
38:55
buy violence, turn it over, but by some Sly, roundabout way, we
38:59
can exit that system and that's what Bitcoin represents.
39:02
It's a system that they can't stop and so and we can choose
39:08
it. And so for many of us we choose
39:10
it and they can't stop it. And now they're not at the
39:14
center anymore, so that, yeah. So one of the reasons I invited
39:20
you today to have this conversation, Tomer is, there
39:23
was something that you said I mentioned this in the very
39:25
beginning of the show, but I never actually got to it.
39:27
You know, we were in Bitcoin magazine live and, you know, we
39:32
simply Bitcoin. We pride ourselves at least
39:36
trying to stay on top of the social attacks, and we'd like,
39:40
to be pried ourselves and at least providing, The Narrative
39:43
to either, you know, Salvador Fudd or, you know, flood by the
39:46
treasury front by the US government and the amount of
39:50
attacks are ridiculous. But you said something really
39:53
interesting and it had me thinking said, Nico doesn't
39:58
matter what we do. The incentives of Bitcoin are
40:00
strong enough, that no matter what these people throw at us.
40:05
This is going to, we're going to win.
40:07
There's too many people that have something at stake.
40:10
There's too many people that are involved and The example that
40:13
you gave was the, for course, you said, you know?
40:16
And that was, you know, that was the, the example that you gave
40:19
me said, look, look, what happened in the four cores.
40:22
It was, it was definitely intense.
40:23
But so many people had so much invested.
40:25
I'm not even talking about money, I'm just talking about
40:28
time. I'm talking about heart.
40:29
If that they would never let this thing collapse, this never,
40:34
it was a war of principle, right?
40:36
Like we used money but not to get richer, we used my money,
40:42
Against people who cared only about money.
40:46
To get them to adhere to our principles and that that was a
40:51
really powerful thing. And for people who aren't
40:53
familiar with the block size Wars, I do have an article on.
40:58
There's obviously the block size Wars that the book, which, which
41:00
you can read, but I wrote an article that is, again, way more
41:04
stylized because I just first-person account of someone
41:08
involved in the four quarters and I think it's called it's on
41:11
bitcoin magazine. If you search my name, you'll
41:12
find it. I think it's called cyber
41:14
Soldier. Freedom fighter, and it really
41:18
was for all of us who were fighting on the side of the, you
41:22
ASF on the side of Bitcoin. The side, the side of not
41:26
letting corporations, take Bitcoin over, it was, will go
41:29
down with the ship. Like if we have to destroy
41:31
Bitcoin to prevent Bitcoin from being taken over by the
41:34
corporation's, then so be it because being taken over by the
41:37
corporation's is destroying Bitcoin.
41:39
So we've got nothing to lose and we're going to fight for this.
41:43
And the corporation's, of course or just Greedy.
41:46
They were the ones who live in a world where their greed is
41:50
ultimately their limitation and for us it wasn't.
41:53
And and so this is another perfect example of how that
41:55
Spiritual Awakening, whether we were aware of it consciously or
41:58
not had already taken place within the people who are
42:01
fighting the four quarters. We were fighting for principle
42:04
not for which Fork is going to be worth more money?
42:08
Of course. We dump those Forks when they
42:10
came out, but it wasn't because we were trying to make more
42:13
money because we thought this one like We wanted nothing to do
42:16
with a corporate takeover coin or a coin with a leader, nothing
42:21
to do with that because we are now principally, you're in
42:25
principle committed to a system that has nobody in charge.
42:29
No corporations. We know leaders.
42:33
So we'll dump any coin. That doesn't mean that we will
42:36
fight to the death for any court for the coin that does, which is
42:40
Bitcoin. Yeah.
42:43
Wow. So Tomer, we were also, we're on
42:49
the front lines of this every single day.
42:53
Do any of these? It's Anna and I love the answer
42:55
that you gave to me a Bitcoin mag.
42:57
Do any of these attacks? Were you last week?
43:01
You know, if you read, I'm sure you did read the Nick, Carter
43:04
peace refuting. You know, the White House report
43:09
and it was the misrepresentations were Just
43:11
absurd and you could definitely make the case that it was
43:15
malicious but it to me it's very clear.
43:19
They hope that they're going to continue the racket through
43:23
Central Bank. Digital currencies they
43:26
completely ignored Bitcoin that incident say it by name.
43:29
They said you know, less energy efficient, you know, B SB SB, SB
43:35
s. Clearly, they're taking a stance
43:39
like they, they're digging their heels in And they're basically
43:43
making the argument and I just read you a small passage that
43:46
the future of money in the United States.
43:49
Specifically, is Central Bank digital currencies.
43:52
Now, how far are they willing to do that?
43:55
I think that they're in a battle against time.
43:58
Time is our friend number. Go up Technologies are friends.
44:02
It's just going to incentivize more people to join our side.
44:05
And that's also going to increase our purchasing power,
44:08
which will increase the amount of influence we have over.
44:11
You know, the politicians right? Yeah.
44:13
But what worries me is not the end.
44:15
I think we win because we have better incentives.
44:17
But what worries me is that transition period?
44:22
Is that something that you worry about?
44:23
I know the answer to this is no, no.
44:26
I am not worried for Bitcoin. I got I worried for myself, I
44:30
worry for other people. And so I do say it's important
44:33
that, you know, when you're fighting too hard when you're
44:37
taking too strong a chance whether you're in a do-or-die
44:41
situation like the fork wars were, but if they're not like
44:47
Bitcoin is decentralized, it doesn't actually need you.
44:51
It benefits from you. Ryan is a big one benefits from
44:54
each and every one of us. But it doesn't need any
44:56
individual one of us. So there's no point in
45:00
sacrificing yourself, solo for the sake of Bitcoin, it would
45:03
have survived without your sacrifice.
45:06
Anyway. Satoshi's like, you just think
45:09
about the satoshi's was the only sacrifice Bitcoin needed to
45:13
survive. He had to surrender all his
45:15
coins and give up his identity and give up all the think
45:18
Fortune so that you don't have. Of to and if being involved in
45:22
Bitcoin, trying to put your name out there or you're getting you
45:26
know, prosecutors or government is coming.
45:29
After you, you can step back and let others fight the fight
45:34
because as soon as you back off it's not like the whole of
45:36
Bitcoin gives up, right? I think it's kind of sad like
45:39
Nick worth is really great piece about this but Nick also had his
45:43
incident would bitcoiners a couple of months ago and you
45:45
could see that he had it in his mind that Bitcoin the community
45:49
needed him. And it doesn't.
45:52
And that's no insular against him because I'm saying, Bitcoin
45:54
doesn't need any one of us. It's completely decentralized.
45:58
It's without leaders. There's no leader of Bitcoin who
46:01
you kill and then Bitcoin dies. It's every single node, every
46:04
single, every single person. So I'm not concerned about
46:08
Bitcoins, ultimate fate. Some things may happen that make
46:11
it take longer, some things may happen, that speed it up.
46:14
Different parts of the world that may have more value.
46:17
It may, you know, all sorts of different, Bitcoins completely
46:19
decentralized. So, Like water flowing down
46:21
paths. If you block One path, it
46:24
doesn't care. It just flows around and goes
46:25
the other way. Maybe you block a short path for
46:28
it. So it's going to take longer to
46:29
get to one location than it otherwise would have but it's
46:34
flowing and getting to where it's going to get to eventually.
46:38
So there's been a lot of times when I'm like I've been quite
46:41
involved with a lot of people who are deeply involved in
46:43
Bitcoin and times when they're burning out is just like I can't
46:46
do this anymore. It's a that's okay.
46:48
Take your time. You have all the time in the
46:50
world. Have Bitcoin.
46:51
You can wait the Slow Time. Preference thing is a very
46:56
important lesson to learn. Take your time, don't don't rush
47:00
things. We there's other people to pick
47:03
up the slack of what work you've been doing that.
47:06
You may leave behind someone will step up and carry pick up
47:09
what you put down, which is a really powerful thing and you
47:13
don't have to ask somebody to do it, right?
47:15
Somebody will see that you've put down whatever it was that
47:17
you were carrying. And if They want to do it, which
47:22
many people do want to do things for Bitcoin.
47:24
They will pick it up and they will do it.
47:26
And you have to let them because you putted you put it down.
47:29
So I hope that makes sense. It does and you, you mentioned
47:37
you said I think you I think you have.
47:40
I think we all do. I think this is a natural thing
47:42
where you imagined, right? And I'm not talking about
47:46
Bitcoin itself. I'm not worried about Bitcoin
47:48
either. I think the incentives are Are
47:50
so powerful. Look, look at what happened in
47:53
China, right? They banned the Bitcoin mining
47:56
and it's estimated still between 10 to 15 percent of the hash
47:59
rate still there, right? It's very extremely powerful
48:01
incentives and they didn't stop it quite night the same time,
48:04
right? Like this is the hook, it's
48:06
Bitcoin invites you to work with it to join it, right?
48:10
Eight like even after all the China's done to bitcoin, Bitcoin
48:13
is not going to stop China from welcoming it and if you ignore
48:17
Bitcoin, everybody else in the world is still in.
48:20
Invited to use it so other people do use it and it's like
48:23
you've left more for them. So they get more excited about
48:26
using it. If you've left it behind your
48:27
like falling behind in this race to use Bitcoin.
48:30
So many people stopped using Bitcoin for some period of time.
48:35
They realize that it's a mistake subconsciously, at least and so
48:38
they either rejoin which is the sensible thing to do, or they
48:43
experience what we call Bitcoin derangement syndrome which is
48:46
this irrational hatred of Bitcoin which is a refusal to
48:49
admit that It's a refusal to bend the knee, it's a refusal to
48:52
admit that you're better to join it than to fight it and, and
48:56
really everything about Bitcoin is, you know, your, if you can't
49:01
beat it, join it and you can't beat it.
49:03
So, do join it. It's not harmful.
49:06
I mean, it's completely benevolent.
49:08
It's permission was in censorship.
49:09
Is it doesn't tell you what you can to do, right?
49:12
It doesn't prevent you from using your money doesn't prevent
49:14
you from saving your money. It doesn't prevent you from
49:16
spending. Your money doesn't prevent
49:18
someone else from giving you anything.
49:19
So it's just it's a crucible of Freedom that you that even in
49:26
being a crucible of Freedom it says and you're free to not use
49:29
me, all right? But the kind of the content, you
49:32
know, there's consequences to making bad choices.
49:34
And so if you choose not to use Bitcoin, you choose not to be
49:37
free not to experience the freedom that it offered.
49:40
Why? Why are people is it?
49:43
Is it the, is it the conditioning?
49:45
Why are people so confident when they say that and there's In a
49:50
part like the kind of game theory logical perspective.
49:55
I you know, I've been in this for a while, right?
49:58
You usually come to that same conclusion, it's like the
50:01
incentives. Just a decentralized nature of
50:04
it. But why is that?
50:06
Why is that an overhanging fear for so many people?
50:08
Like the government is eventually going to ban this
50:11
thing? I think they're going to
50:12
successfully co-opted aetherium, right?
50:15
You know we all know it's already got ya, boom?
50:17
Right there is already lost Right, the world economic Forum,
50:23
would it be celebrating it, right?
50:25
So, that brainwashing is extremely powerful, right?
50:30
Why is it Fiat that has convinced people's?
50:34
It has has condition people to thinking, that the government is
50:37
this all powerful all benevolent.
50:40
There's absolutely nothing you could do, but it's Fiat and Fiat
50:44
in Doctrine. It like it's it's not just Fiat
50:46
money, all right? It's a, it's a decreed education
50:49
system. Right?
50:50
Like, you don't have freedom in your education.
50:53
Like every child, goes to school and learn to federally mandated
50:56
curriculum of each country that's indoctrination.
50:59
And what does it teach you? The government is good.
51:01
The government provides you free education.
51:04
Most country the government provides, you free health care
51:06
or regulation of the healthcare system to protect you.
51:09
The government provides safe sound money.
51:12
All of these are lies that we discover there.
51:16
They're not entirely 100% complete, big lies, but Are
51:20
pretty big lies, and they're and they're certainly not pure core
51:24
truths. And so, when you're raised in an
51:27
environment, it's that it's that example that I gave up the baby
51:29
elephant. That was chained up, and then it
51:31
grows up and somebody said, no, you can break the chain and it's
51:34
like, no. What do you mean?
51:36
I can bring the chain. I've lived all my life with this
51:38
chain on my foot and I can't move there.
51:40
I tried believe, don't tell me I can break the chain.
51:43
I tried when I was young and I got slapped back, I tried not
51:47
doing my homework at school and I got punished and I got rid of
51:50
Q old and I got held back. It's so we get punished for not
51:54
obeying the state even as children, right?
51:57
Just like the elephant in the story that I said, so that is
52:01
why it's so hard to break free. You've got to reawaken and
52:05
that's why I said this story of Satoshi who broke all these
52:08
rules. You didn't write every one of
52:11
these rule including rules, like when you managed to break
52:14
through and break free of these things, you get rich.
52:16
She's like, oh, I reject that to what you get famous.
52:18
I reject that to where you get powerful.
52:20
I reject that too. And so it's when we see a story
52:25
like this, that that is what provides the path for us to say,
52:30
okay? You know what, I can evaluate
52:33
whether I want to do these things and I do think many
52:35
people take a quick evaluation of these things and they're
52:37
like, that's too scary, right? Like I know I've been through
52:42
moment myself where it's like wow this is really serious.
52:46
Like being self sovereign. Creates great opportunity, but
52:52
with great opportunity comes great responsibility, and that's
52:56
more responsibility than I've ever had to have in my life.
52:58
I got to keep my keys. I can't like go to the bank and
53:02
pound my fist. If I lose my Bitcoin and get it
53:04
back, I can't go to the head of Bitcoin and pound my fist.
53:06
Like I have to be responsible for my own money.
53:09
I have to be responsible for the whole system.
53:11
There's so much you have to be responsible for and and that is
53:15
part of the human experience. That was obviously the natural
53:19
human. But also it comes with hardships
53:23
and we tried to construct things to make our lives easier.
53:26
It just I think we've got in my judgment.
53:28
We've gone too far. It's one thing to have
53:30
insurance. It's another thing to have
53:32
mandated insurance that says, this is the only way you to live
53:36
your life. So that it's safe for you,
53:38
especially when that whole thing gets corrupted and it's not
53:41
serving for your safety or your, well, fair at all, it's whatever
53:47
the opposite of welfare is so. Tomer, I think you said
53:51
something that I've been renovating, like, just this is
53:57
something that I've been thinking about dramatically are
54:00
like a lot. I can't find the exact word or
54:04
maybe you can even say obsessing I think, and it goes down to the
54:09
conditioning, right? We all know that famous Abraham,
54:12
Lincoln's speech that been told, you know, government by the
54:15
people for the people. Yep.
54:18
When I read that report, the future of Honey, I couldn't help
54:22
but to think in a country like the us out of all places, right?
54:27
To me, what it looks like from my perspective is that it's
54:31
really a government by the government for the government
54:36
and its really Brun by the employees of the government, for
54:41
the government employees, and the rest of us are all kind of
54:44
tagging along and I'll even add some data on top of that.
54:48
Did you guys know and to there to your audio listeners, that
54:51
the United States government is the largest employer in the
54:54
world? I don't know.
54:58
Tell me, what are your thoughts, man?
55:00
Do you, do you agree with me? Do you disagree, who's the
55:03
government for at the end of the day and is is Bitcoin exposing
55:07
the grift? Was it always like that or
55:09
maybe, you know, I think I think we've slipped we've slipped down
55:13
something, right? The government Fiat the
55:14
incredibly small you've asked me at least six times during this
55:18
conversation, was it Fiat because and I'll tell you I'll
55:21
tell you the same kind of answer, it wasn't entirely in
55:25
only Fiat it what it wasn't like Was one moment.
55:28
And if that one moment, let me rephrase it, let me rephrase it.
55:31
Let me rephrase it, okay? Because I don't, I have, I have
55:34
a tendency not to explain myself fully Was it Fiat and the
55:40
changes that Fiat makes the human psychology, right?
55:44
And then the behaviors that, that enables well.
55:48
What even enabled Fiat was something that came, like how do
55:51
we get to the point where suddenly one day Nixon can come
55:54
on TV and say no more gold for the money, like the money is not
55:58
backed by anything anymore. Temporarily and which would
56:02
obviously was a lie, right? It basically stole all the gold
56:05
in the world and had to do it because he'd already Spent all
56:07
the gold in the world and couldn't pay and couldn't pay it
56:10
back and couldn't resurface it, and it wasn't just him, and was
56:13
his predecessors as well. But the moment of truth came
56:16
during his, his leadership campaign.
56:19
What in the world allowed us to get there?
56:21
It was already, a slippery slope.
56:23
Let's spend money without demonstrating the backing of it.
56:27
Let's let Liars into politics. Let's, let's pretend to believe
56:32
the lies that we know that our lives, that we can get something
56:35
for nothing. Let's borrow it from our
56:36
children. Let's let's leave them to pay
56:39
the bill afterwards. Let's distort the economy
56:42
because it's easier for some people, especially those in
56:45
power to take money for themselves and not pay attention
56:48
to the harm that's caused to the people who the money is actually
56:51
taken from. Let's imprison those people,
56:53
let's make, let's pass laws against them and all this stuff
56:56
is very subtle and very nuanced, but you, but it's very what's
57:01
the word I'm looking at very Insidious, right?
57:04
And, and so, by the time we got to the Declaration of Money is
57:07
now only Fiat money. We'd already gone a long way
57:10
down that path and it's this is now like the story of the
57:13
boiling frog gradually gets boiled government at the
57:16
beginning of the United States, used to be incredibly small.
57:19
There was no income tax, the government had no real Revenue,
57:22
generating capacity, it wasn't the largest employer in the
57:25
world. It was a very, very small thing
57:27
where people did it. As part time jobs right, there
57:30
weren't full-time politicians like and and then full-time
57:34
politicians came and then the grift came and then and then
57:37
gradually, they kept corrupting it, more and more and more.
57:40
And now we're at this point. It really feels like it's climax
57:44
on the verge of breakdown because it's so corrupt.
57:47
It's so broken. And we and we see it in so many
57:50
different ways. That it's tearing apart, the
57:53
fabric of the society and the country in the money that holds
57:57
it together. And the education is where the
57:59
education doesn't work anymore, right?
58:00
Nobody believes. We have a good education.
58:03
We do. We believe we have the most
58:04
expensive education system, which is true but we don't have
58:07
When and where it's not, because the teachers are stupid, or the
58:09
teachers are bad. It's like everything about the
58:11
system is broken and it, and it doesn't, it doesn't succeed.
58:16
If, and only if it provides a good service it succeeds by
58:19
Fiat, right? Not by Fiat money, but it's
58:22
exceeded by decree to say, well, we will tax people and we will
58:25
pay the teachers and we will teach them these things and we
58:27
will change the curriculum to suit what getting re-elected.
58:31
So everything's become in terribly, terribly intertwined,
58:35
and escape from. It seems hard.
58:37
Sure and harder and harder. And I think that's what's just
58:39
so extraordinary about about Bitcoin because it escapes from
58:43
the whole thing kind of all at once.
58:45
In one in one big way it none of Bitcoin requires any blessing or
58:51
approval from any government ever.
58:54
Write it exists independent existence based on the rules of
58:57
physics and math, the laws of physics and math, which no
59:00
government can change and exist, whether any government exists or
59:04
not. And I think that's that.
59:06
What underpins Underlies. It's it's see like it as a
59:12
savior. It is a Salvation for us because
59:14
when you attach yourself to it you attach yourself to something
59:17
that no amount of Fiat can change, right?
59:20
No court can rule that. Satoshi's coin, should move to
59:24
Craig Wright. And those coins will move to
59:26
Craig Wright akoya. Court can rule it, but it can't
59:28
overrule Bitcoin. No Army can overrule Bitcoin.
59:32
No legislator can overrule Bitcoin Bitcoin.
59:37
Is rules above rulers Beyond rulers.
59:41
See what I mean? No, I totally get it.
59:44
And, do you buy into the theory that in?
59:48
This is the last question because we're running out of
59:50
time. Do you buy into the theory that
59:53
this is just another human cycle, right?
59:55
You if you look back and you know, Roman Roman Republic to
59:59
the Roman Empire, you kind of saw the same moral decay of
1:00:02
society. A little shortcuts over time,
1:00:06
but those little shortcuts over Kids, it's like death by a
1:00:08
Thousand Cuts, are we? At the end?
1:00:10
You know, some people call it, the fourth turning, are we at
1:00:13
the end of this cycle and what do you see over that Hill?
1:00:16
What do you see? Tomer from your perspective?
1:00:19
Do you believe in the theory, Cory.
1:00:21
I love the way he puts it. The bright orange future, right?
1:00:25
What do you see over that Hill Tomer?
1:00:27
Yeah, I've written a number of things.
1:00:29
I try to be like science fiction about the future.
1:00:31
So, in the short-term, I've written one piece of time.
1:00:34
This one blog, I think it's called an empire for us all That
1:00:37
I say, I think Bitcoin is the dawn of a new Empire and an
1:00:42
Empire that won't collapse. Because the reason every Empire
1:00:45
in history collapsed that we know of is the leaders, debased,
1:00:50
the money, okay? And Bitcoin is the system would
1:00:52
know leaders who can debate the money.
1:00:54
So, here is the thing that prevents, it's a coin that's
1:01:00
accepted throughout the realm, which is now already all over
1:01:02
the world, not widely accepted, but it's localized accepted
1:01:05
everyone in the world towards a worldwide Empire.
1:01:07
Fire with no Emperor and no debasement and so we can go on
1:01:12
for a long time I think you know so and never had an empire last
1:01:15
more than a thousand years Bitcoin could be an Empire the
1:01:18
last two million years which is not to say that we won't have
1:01:21
like fourth turning type Cycles within it.
1:01:23
But not complete collapse will have will have better times
1:01:26
which will lead to weaker men, which will lead to a harder
1:01:29
times and who leads our better stronger.
1:01:32
Men, would you lead to better times which will lead to a week.
1:01:34
So I think I think that's cycle never goes away but it.
1:01:37
Rains on the ever-increasing up cycle.
1:01:40
And these time Horizons of things like 80 years, which are
1:01:43
what these four turnings typically take are going to be
1:01:47
viewed as very short periods of time in human history.
1:01:49
Right now, it's like, oh my God countries, rise and fall in 80
1:01:53
years, it's a Fiat money is only 50 years old and it looks like
1:01:56
it's going going to fail. I think we're going to be on a
1:01:59
much much longer trajectory you and I won't live to see it
1:02:02
because it's going to be these really long trajectories, but
1:02:05
humanity is going to thrive and succeed and II have a very
1:02:08
optimistic view of what Bitcoin really means as an invention.
1:02:12
I may be wrong, I know it and it's for the it's for our
1:02:16
descendants to tackle the problems that come up in the
1:02:20
future we can tell there's all these people who are trying to
1:02:22
fix Bitcoin now for 140 years is like oh I think you know in 140
1:02:25
years when there's no more new coins issued, I think we should
1:02:27
fix the inflation for it. Now it was like first of all,
1:02:30
nobody is going to allow you to change it now.
1:02:31
And second of all, Let the people let the responsible
1:02:36
people at the time who are experiencing the world at the
1:02:39
time, make the changes at the time for their time.
1:02:42
Like we don't have to like it's the same like we're now Central
1:02:46
planners of the future generations of we're trying to
1:02:48
fix what's going on there. So let like let's figure out
1:02:52
what we need to do to make sure that we hand down a solid
1:02:55
Bitcoin, to our children. But let's not try to fix every
1:02:58
problem that they might encounter in the future, where a
1:03:01
helicopter generational, If we do that and they can change it
1:03:05
back anyways to fix it. So it's a waste of our time and
1:03:09
energy. So I think I think we go on for
1:03:11
a very long period of time. I think we reach the next level,
1:03:15
this could be our passing through what's known as the
1:03:17
great filter. This was the invention that we
1:03:19
needed to not destroy ourselves or to not keep destroying
1:03:23
ourselves. And I've got another article on
1:03:26
medium that I call moving. Heaven and Earth the talks about
1:03:29
what what could be over the next hundreds of millions of years?
1:03:33
For Humanity. So, you're where you're trying
1:03:37
to say is that what're you trying to say, 80 members that
1:03:40
were early Very, very we're finally reaching maturity as as
1:03:46
legal where the species that every specimen specializes in
1:03:50
learns and we passed knowledge in a way that no other species
1:03:53
can we like this whole conversation between you and me,
1:03:56
right? It's we've changed each other by
1:03:59
the questions and answers and dialogue.
1:04:01
We and people who are listening, the ideas are spreading and it
1:04:04
every person who's listening to it as change some way.
1:04:07
Even if they rejected the ideas, they they've heard them and so
1:04:11
We grow as a, as a human Humanity, being right?
1:04:16
The whole of humanity, grows and Humanity has like a been
1:04:19
learning to stand up, which is civilization, but keeps falling
1:04:23
down, which is the collapse of civilization and I and we were
1:04:26
really falling down hard. Now we've gotten bigger and
1:04:29
falling down harder but I think Bitcoin is this backbone or is
1:04:32
this tool that lets us stand up and stay standing for a very
1:04:36
long time? Like I mean long enough to
1:04:38
explore the Galaxy, right? Like that's that's what I think
1:04:41
this. And I may be mistaken, but but I
1:04:43
have realized, I had least have some of the problems that I've
1:04:47
identified, the keeps causing Humanity, the fall down Bitcoin
1:04:51
fixes and it fixes all the ones that I'm aware of that have
1:04:54
caused you Manatee to fall down. So we might discover new ways to
1:04:57
fuck up. But Bitcoin fixes all the ways.
1:05:01
We've been fucking things up before and so it really is a
1:05:05
kind of a miracle. Amen.
1:05:06
And that's the that's a conversation for another time.
1:05:10
The unintended Fences of a Bitcoin standard, which is a
1:05:13
whole other Rabbit Hole anyways, Tomer.
1:05:17
I really, really enjoyed this conversation.
1:05:20
Thank you so much for coming on, coming on, simply Bitcoin.
1:05:23
RL. This is the second show.
1:05:25
We're going to keep doing these. Apparently, you guys like it.
1:05:28
We got decent amount of people watching live, so we're going to
1:05:31
keep doing these tone. Would love to have you back,
1:05:33
maybe in six months or so sure. And keep, keep exploring the
1:05:40
rabbit hole, which Is endless the longer you've been hearing
1:05:44
of it? Well, I'll give ya know.
1:05:45
I was there and I can tell you I've no yeah yeah, there's this
1:05:48
one piece that we spent all this time.
1:05:50
Discussing was a bit of a breakthrough for me.
1:05:52
And now I feel like I'm ready to move on to the next breakthrough
1:05:55
and there's like 16 ideas that are getting organized and and
1:06:01
made sensor for for the next big push.
1:06:03
So yeah, there's a, there's a word we haven't reached the
1:06:06
bottom, the rabbit hole yet, absolutely.
1:06:09
All right, I will See you later Tomer, thanks for coming on.
1:06:13
I don't play the outro music because if not YouTube, will cut
1:06:16
it short. See you later.
1:06:17
See you later. See you on the interwebs Tomer.
1:06:20
Yeah, I'll see you there.