Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 3 June

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The Bolt Report | 3 June · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: He's the good report.
0:14
Speaker 2: You know, we Australians must be so lucky either that
0:19
Speaker 2: we actually have a dangerously arrogant and England Prime minister
0:22
Speaker 2: leading us to terrible danger. You see, it's apparently it's
0:27
Speaker 2: just Anthony Albneasy alone who reckons there's no real danger
0:31
Speaker 2: of war and there's no need to give our Australian
0:34
Speaker 2: Defense Force a dollar more than has already promised, having
0:38
Speaker 2: today made clear he knows better than all the experts,
0:41
Speaker 2: better than our former head of the Defenses the ADF,
0:44
Speaker 2: better than our former head of Army, our former head
0:46
Speaker 2: of the Air Force, our former head of the Defense Apartment,
0:49
Speaker 2: all telling him that the ADF is short of weapons
0:53
Speaker 2: and soldiers and desperately needs a lot more money.
0:56
Speaker 3: We need to get away from this idea that someone
0:58
Speaker 3: somewhere else says some sore we just go oh okay.
1:05
Speaker 2: Even more significance that alban Easy today also made clear
1:08
Speaker 2: that he knew better than the United States as well,
1:11
Speaker 2: the country that we actually rely on almost entirely for
1:14
Speaker 2: our defense, and that is setting them up for a
1:17
Speaker 2: dangerous confrontation with President Donald Trump, who's probably sick of
1:21
Speaker 2: how we're not getting the message you see. US Defense
1:25
Speaker 2: Secretary Pete Hegseth last week told Defense Minister Richard Miles
1:30
Speaker 2: privately in Singapore that Australian must urgently increase spending on
1:33
Speaker 2: defense from two percent of GDP now to three and
1:37
Speaker 2: a half percent very soon. But then Males refuse to
1:41
Speaker 2: tell journalists what Hegseth had just demanded, try to hide
1:45
Speaker 2: the message.
1:47
Speaker 4: He did specifically raise that three percent of GDP target.
1:51
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put a number on.
1:54
Speaker 2: Well, Hegseth wasn't putting up with that. He then published
1:58
Speaker 2: a readout on his website of his meeting with Miles
2:02
Speaker 2: that did put a number on it, the exact number,
2:04
Speaker 2: saying it conveyed to Males that destruction increases defense spending
2:07
Speaker 2: to three point five percent of our GDP and as
2:12
Speaker 2: soon as possible. It's most unusual to publicly reveal private
2:17
Speaker 2: advice so bluntly, but America under Donald Trump does mean
2:22
Speaker 2: what it says. It is sick of paying for the
2:25
Speaker 2: West defense when China is now such a huge threat.
2:29
Speaker 2: Trump wants America's allies to step up and spend at
2:33
Speaker 2: least three and a half percent on their own defense
2:35
Speaker 2: as well, if they still want the us to be
2:38
Speaker 2: there when it all hits the fan or else.
2:42
Speaker 1: If you're not going to pay your bills, we're not
2:44
Speaker 1: going to defend you.
2:47
Speaker 2: But having easy today played the patriotism card. Oh, he
2:51
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be bullied by foreigners into spending more
2:54
Speaker 2: on defense. Never Mind what Trump says. Never mind if
2:58
Speaker 2: NATO nations this month will discussed raising their military spending
3:01
Speaker 2: to three and a half percent to meet the danger
3:03
Speaker 2: from the Russian Chinese Alliance. Never mind that Britain is
3:07
Speaker 2: talking about rising it's lifting its defense spending as well.
3:13
Speaker 3: Where a sovereign nation that need to have pride in
3:19
Speaker 3: our sovereignty and in our capacity to make decisions in
3:24
Speaker 3: our national interest.
3:28
Speaker 2: Honestly. But the problem for Albineasy is that it isn't
3:32
Speaker 2: just foreigners, including our main defender by the way, saying
3:36
Speaker 2: our spending must rise as I said, our own top
3:39
Speaker 2: defense experts are screaming at him to do it as well.
3:43
Speaker 2: Former Head of Army Peter Lay in Australia today again
3:46
Speaker 2: warned that without the United States we would be almost defenseless.
3:51
Speaker 2: He said, those who were Australia's uniform place great trust
3:54
Speaker 2: in those who task and equip them, and this trust
3:59
Speaker 2: is not being honored. Our former chief of the Air
4:01
Speaker 2: Force has said, we need to have more independent and
4:04
Speaker 2: more independent, more robust capability than we've got, and we
4:07
Speaker 2: need to do it pretty quickly, and he said, I
4:09
Speaker 2: don't think that's going to happen under the current funding line.
4:13
Speaker 2: How many more warnings as Albanese intend to ignore that
4:17
Speaker 2: our military is being stripped of weapons systems. We've got
4:22
Speaker 2: aircraft orders canceled, ships missing munitions, not enough supply ships.
4:27
Speaker 2: We couldn't even follow the Chinese ships that were circumnavigating
4:32
Speaker 2: our coast firing guns, mind clear, as we lack them
4:37
Speaker 2: all to pay for nuclear submarines that we will not
4:40
Speaker 2: get for at least another decade. Albani's own strategic policy
4:45
Speaker 2: review said our defense force is not fully fit for purpose.
4:48
Speaker 2: More funding will be required, and when our top strategy
4:53
Speaker 2: think tank, the government funded Strange Strategic Policy Institute, last
4:57
Speaker 2: week said the same that ourt effen Force was a
5:00
Speaker 2: paper force that couldn't meet near term threats, albanyes, he
5:05
Speaker 2: just threatened it seriously.
5:09
Speaker 3: They need to, I think have a look at themselves
5:13
Speaker 3: as well and the way that they conduct themselves and debates.
5:18
Speaker 2: Alban easy doesn't seem to get there really is a problem,
5:23
Speaker 2: and if God forbid there is a war, history will
5:27
Speaker 2: never forgive him for leaving our military without the weapons
5:31
Speaker 2: we need to defend ourselves. Let me just show you something,
5:37
Speaker 2: a small glimpse of the problem. Now, drones. This is
5:40
Speaker 2: the new warfare. And this is not even the worst
5:43
Speaker 2: example I could give. I showed you last night Ukraine's
5:46
Speaker 2: amazing drone attack on Russia on Sunday, wiping out a
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Speaker 2: third of Russia's long range bombs more than forty acclaim
5:53
Speaker 2: using cheap drones made in Ukraine, including by the way,
5:57
Speaker 2: by volunteers like this British.
6:01
Speaker 4: They look like this, big boy drones, thirteen or fifteen
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Speaker 4: inch Kamikazi drones plowing into every single one of these
6:08
Speaker 4: Russian strategic bombers.
6:13
Speaker 2: Now, Ukraine now makes more than two million drones a year.
6:17
Speaker 2: It even has a navy that's only drone vessels. Even
6:22
Speaker 2: that navy forced Russia's real ship navy out of the
6:28
Speaker 2: Black Sea. And now look at this. This is a
6:31
Speaker 2: map of the latest Ukrainian drone attacks just yesterday, and
6:34
Speaker 2: Russian occupied Crimea and Zavarizia causing massive blackouts. See all
6:40
Speaker 2: those lines, that's individual drone attacks. Now China launched that
6:44
Speaker 2: kind of mass attack. Can you imagine from a few
6:47
Speaker 2: ships out at sea just off our coast. Do you
6:50
Speaker 2: think we could defend ourselves? Now? It is true that
6:55
Speaker 2: we're not doing nothing. I mean there are some good signs.
7:00
Speaker 2: Instance is Straine Defense Force. The ADF is working with
7:03
Speaker 2: austrain Defense Industries to create an underwater drone, the Ghost Shark,
7:08
Speaker 2: unmanned for surveillance and for attack. It's also working with
7:12
Speaker 2: Australia's Drone Shield Company on this anti drone gun disrupting
7:17
Speaker 2: radio signals to drones. Drone Shields already supplied these guns
7:21
Speaker 2: to Ukraine. But here's the thing, it's so developing so fast.
7:25
Speaker 2: Already Russia has been switching instead to drones using fiber
7:29
Speaker 2: optic cables. That's up to twenty kilometers of a line
7:33
Speaker 2: running all the way back to the operator, meaning it
7:36
Speaker 2: can't be knocked out by blocking radio signals and delivers
7:39
Speaker 2: even better pictures of the battlefield. And so many of
7:42
Speaker 2: these ones are now used by both sides in Ukraine
7:46
Speaker 2: that the battlefields are covered with drone fibers. Now, our
7:50
Speaker 2: defense force isn't stupid. It lasts the assigned contracts to
7:53
Speaker 2: examine the full range of defenses against small drones, but
7:57
Speaker 2: said they had to be delivered by five years from now. Seriously,
8:05
Speaker 2: another straand defense company is working on a laser to
8:08
Speaker 2: knock drones out of the skies, but it's the British
8:11
Speaker 2: Navy the plans to deploy them on its ships, not
8:14
Speaker 2: by twenty thirty, but just two years from now. Now,
8:19
Speaker 2: Australia's slowness is exactly the problem as well as a
8:22
Speaker 2: lack of budget. Has retired Major General Augus McLaughlin, now
8:26
Speaker 2: a consultant to a couple of drone companies, said today.
8:30
Speaker 5: What's incredibly important coming out of Ukraine is the speed
8:34
Speaker 5: of their adaption cycle from innovation to adoption. We think
8:39
Speaker 5: is as quick as one hundred days. And the problem
8:42
Speaker 5: we have in Australia is our processes are geared towards
8:46
Speaker 5: huge exotic projects like submarines, frigate ships, tanks, et cetera,
8:52
Speaker 5: which are very slow and deliberate, probably for good reason,
8:55
Speaker 5: we don't want to waste taxpayers money. But the speed
8:59
Speaker 5: that the Ukraineans are demonstrating technology is changing is effectively
9:04
Speaker 5: catching us out. And I think one of the things
9:06
Speaker 5: that we're going to have to do in Australia is
9:09
Speaker 5: adjust the way we acquire technology.
9:12
Speaker 2: We're slow because we're complacent. We're slow because we're bureaucratic,
9:18
Speaker 2: and we're slow because our Prime Minister shows no sign
9:21
Speaker 2: of urgency, no deep concern about the China threat, for instance.
9:27
Speaker 2: And of course we're slow because there's just no money.
9:31
Speaker 2: And if Trump heres that, well, Prime Minister, a little
9:34
Speaker 2: advice I'd stay away from the White House. Joining me
9:43
Speaker 2: is my Tuesday regular commentator National Center, the Mat Canavan,
9:45
Speaker 2: the former Resources Minster, the Matt Great to see you again.
9:48
Speaker 2: Who is likely to be right? Anthony Albanezy or the
9:53
Speaker 2: experts all telling you we must spend more in our defense.
9:55
Speaker 2: The former head of the Defense Force, the former head
9:57
Speaker 2: of the Army, the former head of the Air Force,
9:59
Speaker 2: the former head of the f Department, the country's stop
10:02
Speaker 2: a strategy Institute, the Coalition and the US government.
10:07
Speaker 1: Well, Andrew.
10:08
Speaker 6: I think it might be almost a rhetorical question, isn't it.
10:11
Speaker 6: But the most supporting thing for me these past couple
10:16
Speaker 6: of days is how dismissive the Prime Minister has been
10:20
Speaker 6: to a pretty serious request from our most important ally.
10:24
Speaker 6: Keep in mind this request wasn't something informal or sort
10:29
Speaker 6: of backgrounded to journalists. The Defense Secretary Pete Heggsfirth, on
10:35
Speaker 6: the US Defense Department website has put out a statement,
10:38
Speaker 6: a readout as it's called, from his meeting with our
10:42
Speaker 6: Defense Minister Richard Marles.
10:43
Speaker 1: And it doesn't say.
10:44
Speaker 6: Much more, but it does say explicitly that Pete Heggsseth,
10:48
Speaker 6: Secretary Hexseth, asked for Australia to increase its spending on
10:53
Speaker 6: defense as a percentage of GDP to.
10:54
Speaker 1: Three and a half percent.
10:56
Speaker 6: And you know, the Primise's response to that has basically
10:59
Speaker 6: been and say, oh, look where a sovereign nation will
11:01
Speaker 6: do what we like.
11:02
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, and yes, of course we are.
11:04
Speaker 1: But this is our most.
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Speaker 6: Important ally, and I think we should be giving this
11:09
Speaker 6: much more consideration, giving it more respect than the Prime
11:14
Speaker 6: Minister was doing, particularly given what we've done with Americans
11:17
Speaker 6: over more.
11:17
Speaker 1: Than one hundred years now of this alliance. And on
11:22
Speaker 1: top of.
11:22
Speaker 6: That, if you actually read Secretary hegseth speech to the
11:26
Speaker 6: Shangri La Dialogue in Singapore, the only country he mentions
11:30
Speaker 6: more than Australia is China, and obviously a lot of
11:33
Speaker 6: the speech focused on China, a lot of the reporting
11:36
Speaker 6: since Secretary Heagsets speech is focused on China. But less
11:39
Speaker 6: reported is the fact that he does mention Australia many times,
11:43
Speaker 6: in particular in reference to the potential opportunities for America
11:48
Speaker 6: to produce and make more defense equipment in Australia, including
11:52
Speaker 6: guided weapons one hundred and fifty five millimeters shells. Now,
11:57
Speaker 6: the Prime Minister says he wants so future made in Australia. Well,
12:01
Speaker 6: why isn't he embracing this opportunity with both arms to
12:05
Speaker 6: work with the world's most important, well resourced defense department
12:10
Speaker 6: to actually make his visions a reality, Because the green
12:13
Speaker 6: version of the future made Australia is not working, it's
12:16
Speaker 6: foundering our hydrogen, the hydrogen promises are quickly departing. Remember
12:20
Speaker 6: he was going to build solar panels in Newcastle. What
12:22
Speaker 6: happened to that? That's all gone. Here we have a
12:25
Speaker 6: real opportunity to make things in Australia again with a
12:28
Speaker 6: trillion dollar a year US Defense department, and the Prime
12:32
Speaker 6: Minister is dismissing it without even giving it proper consideration.
12:36
Speaker 6: I don't think that's within Australia's national interest.
12:41
Speaker 2: I want to stress again something that you raised as well,
12:45
Speaker 2: Richard Miles. Our Defense minister did not want to tell
12:48
Speaker 2: journalists how much America had told us to increase defense spending.
12:53
Speaker 2: Pete Heg Saith then put out an official read out
12:57
Speaker 2: of the meeting saying, this is what I asked three
13:00
Speaker 2: and a half percent. They don't want this government to
13:03
Speaker 2: keep stum about the advice they're getting. I thought there
13:07
Speaker 2: was highly significant. Meanwhile, domestic politics, Matt the coalition's new
13:13
Speaker 2: shadow treasurer Teed O'Brien, he's announced this first policy decision.
13:18
Speaker 2: It is to say yes to labor, increasing the tax
13:21
Speaker 2: on earnings of super funds of super accounts above three
13:26
Speaker 2: million dollars as long as the ambanues A government indexes
13:28
Speaker 2: that three million dollar threshold and doesn't tax unrealized gains.
13:33
Speaker 2: Is that actually the right signal to say yes to
13:36
Speaker 2: hire taxes?
13:39
Speaker 6: Look, Edi, I look forward to the discussion about this
13:42
Speaker 6: in our party room. Obviously, we haven't met since the
13:48
Speaker 6: election to discuss these matters, so there is no official
13:51
Speaker 6: coalition policy on these issues. I do take though many
13:56
Speaker 6: of my coalition colleagues have been saying that it was
13:58
Speaker 6: a mistake to oppose labor tax cuts just before the
14:02
Speaker 6: election campaign. So it would be strange to me if
14:05
Speaker 6: our first act after the election was to support tax increases.
14:10
Speaker 6: I think the important thing here is to look at
14:12
Speaker 6: any potential change in these areas in the context of
14:16
Speaker 6: what is it going to be spent on. If we're
14:18
Speaker 6: going to raise taxes on superannuation balances, balances over three
14:22
Speaker 6: million dollars, and we're going to do that to continue
14:25
Speaker 6: to fund the boondoggles of green energy that this government
14:28
Speaker 6: seems addicted to, well I'm not signed up for that
14:30
Speaker 6: at all, Andrew, not signed up for at all. If
14:32
Speaker 6: we believe we need to increase tax revenue to meet
14:37
Speaker 6: this request to increase our defense spending, well look, I
14:41
Speaker 6: will be interested in our conversation, but it has to
14:43
Speaker 6: be a sensible conversation and want to see real benefits
14:48
Speaker 6: of any extra tax revenue for the Australian people for
14:51
Speaker 6: the defense of our country.
14:53
Speaker 1: I mean just a lot, Edrew.
14:54
Speaker 6: We're spending about an extra ten billion dollars a year
14:56
Speaker 6: on renewable subsidies, now more than that because some of
14:59
Speaker 6: it's not closed. The capacity investment scheme is not for
15:04
Speaker 6: publication for commercial reasons, so it's.
15:05
Speaker 1: At least ten billion dollars a year.
15:07
Speaker 6: This request from the Secretary from Secretary Hexfeth would mean
15:11
Speaker 6: a forty billion dollar increase in our defense spending. So
15:14
Speaker 6: you're almost you're a corner there just by getting rid
15:16
Speaker 6: of the renewable subsidies.
15:17
Speaker 1: Why don't we just do that and make a good start.
15:20
Speaker 6: And then there's some other ones, as I say, that
15:21
Speaker 6: are undisclosed, which might get us a lot further down
15:23
Speaker 6: the track.
15:25
Speaker 2: Yes, when you think the green spending is to make
15:28
Speaker 2: us weaker by having a less reliable and more expensive power,
15:31
Speaker 2: whereas the defense spending would make us stronger, it'd be
15:34
Speaker 2: a you know, win win if we switch that funding
15:38
Speaker 2: as you suggest. Mccanavan, thank you so much indeed for
15:40
Speaker 2: your time. After the break, a council reminds parents to
15:46
Speaker 2: enroll their kids for kindergarten. It does this by showing
15:49
Speaker 2: them the flag of gay pride, transgender and intersects people.
15:54
Speaker 2: What on earth is the government waited until after the
16:02
Speaker 2: election to finally approve a forty year extension of the
16:05
Speaker 2: Giant Northwest Shelf gas project. It waited because it didn't
16:09
Speaker 2: want to upset the Green vote before the election, and
16:14
Speaker 2: it didn't want to run out of gas after the election.
16:16
Speaker 2: That's what it approved it. But one Green extremist in
16:19
Speaker 2: Perth Today decided to convince Foreign Minister Penny Wong with
16:23
Speaker 2: sweet reason in the way of the left of course,
16:27
Speaker 2: that her government was wrong here. And he did it
16:30
Speaker 2: by making intelligent arguments she perhaps hadn't considered.
16:35
Speaker 1: Stop, how could you do this to us? Distrup her
16:41
Speaker 1: up heart, dis rub her up heart?
16:46
Speaker 2: To the panel. Will Kinston, hosts of at Will, the
16:48
Speaker 2: podcast from the Spectator, and Politics and Culture and SCons
16:52
Speaker 2: commentator Joe Hildebrand will what is going through the mind
16:57
Speaker 2: of such an activist, So they're really thinking, I'm going
17:02
Speaker 2: to change your mind completely? When I finished with her,
17:04
Speaker 2: she will think I was wrong? Or is just a
17:07
Speaker 2: form of terrorism to do as we say? We will
17:10
Speaker 2: make your life well?
17:12
Speaker 4: Well, Andrew, these activists aren't exactly the sharpest knives in
17:16
Speaker 4: the draw, so I think there is a risk of
17:19
Speaker 4: over analysis. Still, two things probably going through their head
17:23
Speaker 4: and one thing they probably haven't considered. Number One, they
17:26
Speaker 4: no doubt think the world will end if climate action
17:29
Speaker 4: is not taken. Two They no doubt get a warm
17:34
Speaker 4: and fuzzy feeling from feeling like they're doing their bit
17:37
Speaker 4: to save the planet, which no doubt gives them a
17:39
Speaker 4: sense of purpose in an otherwise unimpressive, unsuccessful life. But
17:44
Speaker 4: the thing which you need to keep in mind, which
17:46
Speaker 4: they haven't considered, is that Australia cannot do one thing
17:50
Speaker 4: to solve this problem. If you need it is a problem,
17:53
Speaker 4: they would be far better spending their time jumping on
17:55
Speaker 4: a plane, going to Tianumn's square and heckling Gijimping because
17:58
Speaker 4: he's one of the few people who could solve the problem.
18:00
Speaker 4: And I would love to see what would happen if
18:03
Speaker 4: they decided to do so.
18:06
Speaker 2: But Joe, I'm fascinated by this mindset because Will says,
18:10
Speaker 2: you know, they might be stupid, but I mean a
18:12
Speaker 2: lot of these activists claim to see further than the
18:15
Speaker 2: most of us, often university educated. What do they think
18:20
Speaker 2: they're doing by intimidating people or trying to intimidate people
18:24
Speaker 2: like that?
18:25
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's an interesting one, and I can tell you
18:27
Speaker 7: because I am a former student activist.
18:30
Speaker 2: I was just.
18:30
Speaker 7: Talking to my best mate about our days at Melbourne
18:32
Speaker 7: University and just how obnoxiously we were, and how embarrassed
18:36
Speaker 7: we are about who we were. And one of our colleagues,
18:39
Speaker 7: one of our comrades in those days, is now the
18:41
Speaker 7: vice chancell of Melbourne University and she's just turfed out
18:44
Speaker 7: a couple of trots for harassing Jewish academics on the campus.
18:48
Speaker 1: So this is how far we've come.
18:50
Speaker 7: But the answer is that the purpose is not actually
18:54
Speaker 7: to change anything. The purpose is not to get the
18:56
Speaker 7: government to change its mind or get the policy to change,
19:00
Speaker 7: even if they don't actually realize that clearly. You know,
19:03
Speaker 7: some guy running up and leaping alongside Penny Wong like
19:07
Speaker 7: the you know, the leper in the.
19:08
Speaker 1: Life of Brian is not going to make her.
19:10
Speaker 7: Suddenly, you know, tear up a consultation process that's taken years.
19:15
Speaker 7: What it's about is basic narcissism. It's about virtue signaling
19:20
Speaker 7: and showing how pure you are, how much you care
19:23
Speaker 7: about the world, so that you can then tell people
19:26
Speaker 7: how much you can. And it's also it's a bit
19:28
Speaker 7: like white to young people. You know, we talked about
19:30
Speaker 7: youth crime last time.
19:31
Speaker 2: I was whier.
19:32
Speaker 7: Young people fall into gangs, you know, it's part of
19:35
Speaker 7: this kind of peer pressure people wanting to prove their worth,
19:39
Speaker 7: and it might be prove how much you care, Prove
19:42
Speaker 7: what a fearless activist you are. Prove that you can,
19:45
Speaker 7: you know, boost a car or break into someone's house,
19:47
Speaker 7: so people will think how tough you are.
19:49
Speaker 2: It's all about you.
19:50
Speaker 7: It's all about the person, the individual, nothing to do
19:54
Speaker 7: with the actual issue.
19:57
Speaker 2: I wonder whether two it's a little bit of an
19:58
Speaker 2: element of look what we'll do to her, so don't
20:00
Speaker 2: you dare think of following her? Example might be a
20:04
Speaker 2: little bit of that as well. I want to show
20:07
Speaker 2: you will a reminder card that's been sent by someone
20:10
Speaker 2: in Victoria's Mornington Shire to remind parents who register their
20:14
Speaker 2: kid for kindergarten. It's a card that under the picture
20:17
Speaker 2: of the children, which we've blurred out, flies the Pride
20:22
Speaker 2: flag that's one on the left with symbols for gay, lesbian, transsexual, queer,
20:26
Speaker 2: intersex people, et cetera, et cetera, plus some race symbols
20:29
Speaker 2: as well. The mayor who is anti Wokes is he
20:31
Speaker 2: and the Shah ceo and no idea this was going on.
20:34
Speaker 2: They're report and they're trying tosorder all out. What do
20:36
Speaker 2: you make of it what's gone through someone's mind to
20:39
Speaker 2: put a highly sexualized flag, you know, sort of a
20:43
Speaker 2: sex politics under a picture of children.
20:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they're learneies. That for me is not the
20:49
Speaker 4: most interesting part of the story. The interesting part of
20:51
Speaker 4: the story is that the mayor didn't know about this,
20:54
Speaker 4: and this goes to why I don't think we are
20:56
Speaker 4: at the end of woke, Because even if you have
20:59
Speaker 4: the leadership player of our society, the politicians, the mayors,
21:03
Speaker 4: the CEOs, who go, we're going to actually drop this
21:06
Speaker 4: silly work stuff, and even if you have the working class,
21:09
Speaker 4: the normal people who say we're over this work stuff,
21:12
Speaker 4: there are still this middle layer, the teachers putting the
21:15
Speaker 4: flags on posters like that, the HR managers and marketing
21:20
Speaker 4: managers and businesses, that middle layer that will continue to
21:23
Speaker 4: push this because they've been indoctrinated in the universities, and
21:27
Speaker 4: they will continue to do this, often in the shadows
21:30
Speaker 4: of the leaders who they meant to be accountable to.
21:32
Speaker 4: It's that disconnect between the mayor and the person and
21:35
Speaker 4: the looney who did this, which I think is an
21:37
Speaker 4: insight into whether or not this woke stuff will continue
21:40
Speaker 4: to keep happening.
21:43
Speaker 2: Joe I'm running out of time because it's only four
21:45
Speaker 2: minutes to go before we cross to a documentary about
21:49
Speaker 2: my colleague Chang Lee, who well everyone should know I
21:53
Speaker 2: guess by now. She was jaded for three years by
21:56
Speaker 2: the Chinese dictatorship on bizarre national security charges. In fact,
22:02
Speaker 2: it seems really that she was a hostage in China's
22:04
Speaker 2: war against Australia. What lessons do you think we should
22:08
Speaker 2: take from what was done to her? Yeah, it's incredible.
22:11
Speaker 7: I happen to bump into when she was in the
22:14
Speaker 7: City Sky News studios and it was like almost took
22:19
Speaker 7: a step back because it was a face that meant
22:22
Speaker 7: so much to me and someone who is an icon
22:25
Speaker 7: of journalism and a real you know. I mean, people
22:28
Speaker 7: throw silly words around all the time, but this is
22:30
Speaker 7: someone who was a true beacon of what it means
22:33
Speaker 7: to be a journalist and what it means to stand
22:37
Speaker 7: up because she has not been cowed despite the ongoing
22:40
Speaker 7: threats we know can often be applied to people once
22:43
Speaker 7: they're released from detention in China.
22:45
Speaker 2: I think the.
22:46
Speaker 7: Number one rule is that China does not play by
22:49
Speaker 7: the rules. So the first rule is there are no rules,
22:51
Speaker 7: and that we cannot expect China to be a global
22:56
Speaker 7: player who abides by the norms and the conventions that
22:59
Speaker 7: we apply to everybody else. But the second one is
23:02
Speaker 7: that that doesn't mean China is invincible. That doesn't mean
23:05
Speaker 7: it cannot be beaten sooner or later. Because of the
23:08
Speaker 7: huge amount of support that Cheeng Lai had, the work
23:12
Speaker 7: of the Albanese government which raised it with President Ji Jinping,
23:18
Speaker 7: the fact that she had so much influence, was so
23:21
Speaker 7: well connected as you would hope and expect a journal
23:24
Speaker 7: to be, but even more so that she had friends
23:26
Speaker 7: who were willing to go into bat for her, who
23:28
Speaker 7: had the courage to go into bat for her because
23:30
Speaker 7: they respected her so much. You know, again, decency doesn't
23:35
Speaker 7: always win, but it can win.
23:39
Speaker 2: I should in that context about colleagues that really campaign
23:42
Speaker 2: for her, do a shout out for Emily S. Nielsen.
23:46
Speaker 2: What's a work to respond? But what listen do you
23:48
Speaker 2: take out of this? Will?
23:51
Speaker 4: I echo everything Joe said, but I would add that
23:53
Speaker 4: this should add act as a wake up call to
23:56
Speaker 4: the threat of China. They are the great geopolitical threat
23:59
Speaker 4: of out I think it is more likely than not
24:02
Speaker 4: that there will be some sort of a conflict over
24:04
Speaker 4: Taiwan before the decade is out, which means that we
24:07
Speaker 4: will be drawn into a conflict with China before the
24:09
Speaker 4: decade is out, whether or not that is boots on
24:12
Speaker 4: the ground or something which is a different type of warfare.
24:16
Speaker 4: And unless we move more quickly than we currently are
24:19
Speaker 4: to divest from China with respect to our trade and
24:22
Speaker 4: move closer to countries like India, and unless we move
24:24
Speaker 4: considerably faster on defense spending and upgrading our military, which
24:28
Speaker 4: has been woefully inadequate to date, then to put it impolitely,
24:32
Speaker 4: we're screwed.
24:35
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, Joe. I mean, I saw that.
24:38
Speaker 2: One of the many silly things that the Prime Minister
24:41
Speaker 2: said today was he was investing more in relationships, not
24:45
Speaker 2: necessarily in our military, but in relationships with our neighbors.
24:49
Speaker 2: To me, that was he went on to talk about
24:51
Speaker 2: it Indonesia, but for me, that was code for China.
24:54
Speaker 2: I think he's got this foolish idea that it's got
24:56
Speaker 2: this China thing solved, that we're all sweet now, and
24:59
Speaker 2: you look at the what they did to chang Lei.
25:01
Speaker 2: I don't think is seeing it straight.
25:04
Speaker 7: Yeah, Look, it's a difficult one there's obviously always a
25:06
Speaker 7: bit of carrot and stick into primacy. And again it
25:08
Speaker 7: was because there was a new government and because Albanese
25:11
Speaker 7: was able to speak directly on the sidelines to Xijingping
25:16
Speaker 7: that Chen Lai was able to be released. I mean,
25:17
Speaker 7: that was how it happened. And you can say, well,
25:20
Speaker 7: did we sell out our principles to get Chen lay
25:24
Speaker 7: back safely into Australia or did we just play smart?
25:27
Speaker 7: So there's always going to be a balance there and
25:29
Speaker 7: it's a matter of finding it.
25:32
Speaker 2: I think it was just China saying, look, we'll give
25:34
Speaker 2: you back. You just keep your nose clean and she'll
25:37
Speaker 2: be sweet. Joe Hildebrand Wilkinson, thank you very much for
25:41
Speaker 2: your time. That's it from me. Coming up now is
25:44
Speaker 2: that documentary Chang lay My Story. Good note